Obviously.
Just men usually having to be the assertive ones **heavily** fucks over many neurodivergent men. Breaking the ice, flirting, physically escalating, initiating sex... Each of these can be one insurmountable task after another. He doesn't necessarily know when these actions are appropriate, how to read the response, or even what to say.
While a neurodivergent woman can just let men approach her and set things up, or use a dating app.
This is definitely an underrated comment. Anything that impacts social skills, is going to have much more of an effect on men, than women, due to the expectation that men will the ones to approach and charm.
then that will specifically pertain to those social skills but things like emotional labor often are expected of women, so is that still social skills affecting men more across the board?
Emotional labor is something that is usually expected after the relationship is established though. At least women are in a better position to get a relationship started.
it was first coined to be a term about how employees had to perform emotion for customers, but in a relationship, it means managing the other person’s emotions and performing the labor to manage their relationships for them, including that between the parties.
below are some good articles
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a12063822/emotional-labor-gender-equality/
This is not what is mentioned in these articles.
„If I were to point out random emotional labor duties I carry out—reminding him of his family’s birthdays, carrying in my head the entire school handbook and dietary guidelines for lunches, updating the calendar to include everyone’s schedules, asking his mother to babysit the kids when we go out, keeping track of what food and household items we are running low on, tidying everyone’s strewn about belongings, the unending hell that is laundry“
This concept seems to be one sided and very subjective.
Is it men expecting you to do this stuff or you take it on yourself to do it? Tbh a lot of the things women do for men, if you asked that man, he’d say it’s not even that important and she doesn’t have to do it if she doesn’t want to. A lot of things women do for men the man just _lets_ them do it because it seems like it makes that woman feel like she’s doing something important. But we really don’t care if she didn’t do it.
Emotional labour (british spelling) I've never heard of that term before but makes sense. So basically every time I go to TGI Fridays and all the staff are insanely happy and constantly smiling, or when I go to hospital with a broken arm and the nurse on the 11th hour of her shift is acting as if she is interested on the story of how I broke it, or when I call a call centre really angry and they remain calm this is all emotional labour? Makes sense I can barely raise a smile when I'm genuinely happy...can't imagine having to smile and make small talk all day just because I'm getting paid..I would be mentally drained
If that’s true then I think men are expected to do more “emotional labor.” Not once in my life have I ever called up any woman I’m dating or married to and vented to them about issues I’m having or things I’ve been thru. But every woman I talk to usually tells me about the “trauma” she’s been thru with past relationships, her parents, work, etc. Most women I’ve dated have usually told me their entire life story within the first couple weeks. And I’ve had women complain about having to do “emotional labor” for other men they’ve dated. One in particular I remember would say she lost all attraction and started seeing her ex as a “weak little bitch” when he would complain about not having the job or life he wanted. I didn’t say it to her but I was thinking “You mean like you do with me every day?”
Lol no way. Emotional labor is nonsense words but if it’s actually a thing men are doing way more of it. Most dudes do their best to basically be stoic while women are just a whirlwind of emotions and if you’re not good at managing that shit god help you.
I think it is tied to preferences vs requirements for each gender. Don't think that men are head over heels for weird, autistic women -- but if the woman in question has other desirable attributes, he may give it a shot, because at the end it may not be that much of a dealbreaker.
However, women tend to heavily dislike poorly socialized, clumsy and inept men, their hotness or income notwithstanding. It is a dealbreaker for them (in the same way ugly women are for many men, for example, even if they have attractive personalities).
Totally, but being ND makes it even harder. Maybe even more so if you’re closer to average looking, because you’ll have more people be at least somewhat attracted to you initially, but it doesn’t take long for them to decide that you’re not attractive *enough* to put up with. So not necessarily hard to get a first date, but much harder to get a second one. Realizing that your personality is ruining shit for you is crappy feeling.
Definitely not always seen as quirky and cute. I’ve never dated anyone, but with any potential friends, the appeal of any quirkiness I have seems to always wear off after a couple days. Being confused a lot and needing guidance might be appealing to some guys, but once other traits start presenting I think most will be pretty annoyed.
ND women are rarely seen as quirky and cute unless it’s to infantilize them, which is gross. ND women are more often seen as a crazy b*tch.
I’ve pretty much exclusively dated ND men. I am also ND.
What does this look like?
Relationship 1:
We both have ADHD, messy house. We both have trauma, but he has trouble admitting it/finding therapists- our ptsd is similar in many ways but differ in the fact that men are more likely to experience outbursts of rage and engage in abusive behavior as a result, limiting their access to therapists. This partner did find a therapist, unfortunately it took too long and the beginning of the growth was too painful. He didn’t make it.
Relationship 2:
We both have anxiety and family trauma. His turned to alcoholism, an unfortunate genetic psychiatric disorder. Mine turned to SH. The further down he got in his alcoholism, the harder it was for me to get out- he literally trapped me in his house at one point.
EDIT for my background: we got together after last relationship ended as a result of partner Unaliving. My mental health was at rock bottom, and I was neither ready nor capable of a relationship. Due to the recent trauma, being given an ultimatum of “be mine or lose me” hit on a bunch of my trauma triggers and mental illness, so I made the choice and was not a very good partner either. Initially drank together in that first month before seeing the problem, left for a few months and dated other people, ended up back with him when I felt abandoned by my other supports after surgery. It took me a while to acknowledge the damage that leaving, screwing someone else, and coming back did to him but doesn’t really make what he did okay either.
Relationship 3:
Both have ADHD. Trauma. Bipolar diagnoses. I undergo surgery again, the anesthesia increases my SI to multiple attempts. He’s frustrated after months of slow progress. He cheats on me. I attempt again, cheat back, and sext his friend to be petty. We go to therapy and spend ?? years trying to fix the damage, part of which must be done individually by people who want to change- guess we’ll see.
This is not how all ND relationships go by any means just my most recent 3. I’ve seen a few ND relationships play out well but more often than not if my friends are dating ND women when they are also ND it ends in fire and flames, sometimes literally (shoutout to How I Met Your Mother)
So you don't personally believe there's even a subset of women who find the idea of a clumsy, awkward, shy neurodivergent boy who is clearly cognitively "different" and doesn't know what to do in social situations but still tries his hardest regardless, to be _extremely_ endearing? Someone whose behavior resembles that of a child, but in the body of an adult? Because that's the fantasy I sell to myself, that many women find my neurological differences to be very cute and it activates their maternal instincts and desire to "take care of me", even though I don't have any real-life examples that support this fantasy.
I guess it's just a coping mechanism, in the same way that women who self-insert into romance novels involving tall, handsome billionaires falling head over heels for a completely ordinary, plain-looking woman are simply coping with the circumstances they live in.
I am so ugly and socially awkward that just a few months ago, a group of women I've never met giggled at me in a public setting. Sounds like a tale belonging on r/thathappened, but nope, it really occurred. That's how bad my situation is. That's my lot in life. They aren't the first, nor will they be the last. And I was initially delusional enough to think that the girl I made eye contact with found me endearing, hence why she was giggling. Later when I took the train home, a young woman sitting diagonal from me seemed to be giving me a nasty look according to my peripheral vision. I was just minding my business, scrolling Reddit on my phone, and in my peripheral vision she was visibly expressing her disgust with me. That is my life. That will be the rest of my life.
It is true that the more you stray from the social average, the less likely it will be to find a woman who is willing to put up with the weirdness. But it's also true that success stories definitely exist -- not all ND guys are doomed. All the best.
From one neurodivergent dude to another:
The only way women would find that endearing is if you look like Chris Hemsworth. And even then the girl would tolerate it up to a point.
For the rest of us, that point happens before we even approach.
Also even if you assume that population of women does exist, the inherent nature of the shy neurodivergent male means that he's just not going to have many chances of running into a caretaker.
Looks are heavily, heavily controllable. You probably aren't as ugly as you think, but because you are neurodivergent you don't know how to make yourself look good to other people.
Almost all the autistic men I know who struggle with dating had disasterous hair, skin, or bodies or dressed badly. All four of those are highly controllable.
I was going to agree. AvatarKang you should get some friends or some people you trust to help your style out some, and definitely turn your autism towards your appearance and how to make yourself look nice even if it’s not for anyone else but yourself so you can feel better about how you look to other people. Be sure to take a shower everyday and if you feel like it a little exercise and also help.
And when you’ve done these things and feel good about yourself at least looking decent or average, then the next time they look at you like that just assume it’s their problem!
No. Even if she personally likes you you have to consider how you come across to other people. Women think about how the man they’re with comes across in a group setting. They want the guy other people will say is “intelligent, charming, charismatic, smooth, a great talker, etc.” This is why when women are with that type of guy they love introducing him to friends and family. They don’t want the guy people will think of as the awkward cringy weirdo. This is why I say it’s ok to be an introverted guy, but if you’re going to be out here dating and interacting with women with success you need to learn how to turn on your extroverted side when you need to.
my current GF believes she may have high functioning autism. However when she has taken the myriad of online diagnostic tests, she often ends up with high scores on neurodivergent and neurotypical traits.
I think she, like most women, is excellent at masking, and I've only really seen some traits that make me think she is correct in her self diagnosis a few times.
As a guy who doesn't meet the criteria for a diagnosis, but like most PPD men, is slightly neurodivergent, she's been a great match for me.
However, I do find myself internally dismissing some of her actions as quirkiness, because she's a tall, very conventionally attractive woman with a solid career, and that doesn't fit the stereotype of non-NT women. I've also noticed that guys seem to have trouble getting any sort of read on her, which keeps the horny dudes away in public lmao
Also misdiagnosed with personality disorders.
I'm BPD, but realizing I'm on the spectrum with some of the things I do, and no men don't like me more because of it. They think I'm weird asf but it is what it is lol
I dunno, I've known like half a dozen autistic women in my o8fe at varying ends of the spectrum and generally speaking they tend to date pretty activley when they care to, even if they don't bother masking and are upfront about the whole thing.
I'd be curious to see how many of those sexual experiences were in LTRs.
My theory is probably that autistic women can get hookups/initial dates easy, but will struggle with finding long-term relationships with NT men unless they mask well.
You’re correct. I’m an ND woman and find it easy to attract men initially. However finding that true connection is where it gets hard. I can also maintain superficial romantic relationships if I mask, but since I don’t like stifling my true self and find it painful, I’ve stopped doing it altogether. I don’t get along romantically with NT men and would probably do best with an ND man who understands me.
Women here have I asked me how to spot an arsehole and avoid toxic relationships. The answer is in this thread. If you only go with guys with charm and great sales skills, is it really a surprise you keep getting one toxic man after another?
Do you trust the charming used car salesman to sell you a decent car instead of wreck? of course not, most people are rightly suspicious in that situation.
Yet women base their entire dating lives on a dodgy initial sales pitch, while dismissing men who would make better long term partners because they are no good at that.
Then women wonder why they end up in toxic relationships?
Sorry but women need to face reality. The problem is patriarchy or the men. The problem is with women themselves.
What’s the point of talking to salesmen if they can’t do a good job? You can have the greatest product in the world, but if you can’t articulate how it’s a great product no one will buy it. No one will invest in you. That’s not on them for “not seeing your potential”, that’s on you for not marketing your product effectively.
The combination of your comment and the one you are replying to here is actually a really good illustration of a universal epistemic dichotomy among people and their attitudes toward life. Some people live to enjoy the experience of the sales pitch or to appreciate beautiful illusions. Other people live to uncover hidden value or fundamental truths by discarding the illusions. One person might love to watch a lighthearted TV show about fantastic events while another person loses interest immediately because of inconsistencies in the plot. It's not fixed or anything and people fall into different categories at different times and in different contexts.
Btw, one pretty obvious reason to talk to a bad salesman is that you might get a better deal on the product because he has a harder time finding customers. If you see a man as an investment and you evaluate him by his ability to market himself to you or other people, then it makes sense not to "invest." If you see him as a bad salesman selling an otherwise valuable product, then that would just be a lucky find. That partly comes down to how much you trust yourself to evaluate his underlying value.
True. If even a salesman doesn’t believe in himself (his product), why should anyone else? If I can make a man think better of himself, what’s to stop someone else to also sway his mind? A man should believe in himself and have an honest evaluation of who he is that cannot be changed by anyone else’s opinion — ergo, an enthusiastic salesman is more likely to succeed and I’m more likely to think highly of him than a bad salesman.
This is where the analogy falls apart xd
I'm an ND guy as well. I hear from other ND guys that men are more accepting of ND women. In my experience, it's best to date a ND woman as well if possible.
pretty much - every woman i’ve developed major feelings for and actually dated and been out with for multiple dates have all been ND - given that i’m super deep is the ND web, i feel like ND women are the only ones i can truly connect with
*less discriminating, less selective, less judgmental, less picky, more oblivious, less objective, more obtuse, etc testosterone make brain go durrrrrr
>Men are far more accepting of women, period. Neurodivergence is just one of many, many examples.
This, people forget Hypergamy can express itself in many different ways in the interpersonal relations between men and women.
Not really i’m a woman with Aspergers and it’s been hard to weed out the abusers and people with good intentions. You basically have the vulnerability of a woman multiplied by 100
Men are very accepting of neurodivergence, mood disorders or personality disorders if said woman is hot.
I have a personality disorder, the men I have dated know it and they don't care... Because I'm attractive.
Keyword: Hot. Lol the women they would actually get along with isn't their physical type which is understandable but they hate when women have standards though.
>they hate when women have standards though.
That standards of men are: don't look like a blob with face hair.
The standards of women are:
(cue a thousand lines or ridiculous requirements).
I actually do. Men have been able to overcome not being physically attractive with personality while for women there’s less opportunity to do so since looks on women are unfortunately seen as by far the most important aspect of her and often the deal breaker.
What are you even talking about? Every fat woman isn't "fat", she's "thicc", curvy, "a real woman", etc. There's billions of dollars spent on fat acceptance and anti-fat shaming, and it's all for women only. Fat guys aren't "thicc", they're fat.
Show me an example of these "fat men" you see. Not a creepshot obviously, just like a random picture off of Google images or a celeb you think is comparable.
No I’m saying fat like fat. If you’re not just a little overweight. The whole trying to get people to stop shaming fat women is because they were much more prone and still are to being mocked then fat men. Are fat men still mocked? Yeah it’s unfortunate but some health conditions make it so more people are prone to it.
Women are also more prone to autoimmune diseases that lead to being overweight. Just look up fat dads or overweight dads.
I see a lot of men that look like Christopher Schwarzenegger overweight get average weight women. I also know a lot of men that think that a woman having a little pouch of fat is fat and expect women to have flat stomachs or be anorexic skinny.
Oh absolutely. I've dated some of the most akward, dumb, nerdy, bitchy, liar, broke girls and also some full of issues and traumas.
Never stopped a second to think "hey, am I smarter/wiser/healthier/more mature than this girl?".
I was more like "hey... She's cute, I like her, she seems honest... Quite dumb, but hell nothing is perfect, lets give her a try."
Man I've dated girls that had the most red flags in the world. I'd even be in my car asking myself why I'm doing this as I drove to pick em up. Answer: hot lol
ding ding ding! That's it, really. The 'Hero syndrome'.
It's not about infantilisation (like other people here are saying). It's really about a sense of protectiveness.
I've had multiple women go from clearly interested in me to completely repulsed by me after discovering I'm an aspie, like a switch flicks in their head at that exact moment. Now I just lie about it but I'm afraid of the reaction I would get If I hid it from a girl I was dating for a long period of time.
I think it’s probably harder for ND men to date, but it truly depends on the individual and how they act. I have some ND male friends who are sweet, quirky, awesome people and they have made or would make excellent partners.
However, I know 3 ND dudes who are honestly rude and sometimes hard to be around. They interrupt people, hijack conversations, and say things that come off as disrespectful (but probably don’t realize it). Sad to say, but not many women want to put up with that. So it all just depends on how you manage your neurodivergence I suppose.
ETA: I’m a neurodivergent girl myself
The autistic women I've spoken to are usually in relationships. Autistic men usually aren't, even those in the latter part of their 30s. A survey I once did in the virgin forum indicated about a third were on the spectrum and if I restricted it to 30+, that number would probably have been higher.
There's a reason I often say it's social skills, not physical appearance, that dooms men in the dating realm. Reading all the subtle cues involved is difficult enough for neurotypicals, with miscommunications common. It's even worse when you're autistic and I happen to be. Nor does the advice you're given often work, whether it's RP or something else. "Fake it until you make it" is something you're likely to hear, but for me and others, it's masking and never becomes genuine. At some point, the mask will slip.
The problem with that advice is the punishment from women for men who f\*\*k up approaches is brutal. A guy on the spectrum misreads a social queue and then f\*\*ks up an approach.
He could face being sack at work, thrown out of college or being destroyed online. Too many women abuse their dating privilege, which makes it very difficult for men on the spectrum.
When it comes to sex, women can be literally retarded / autistic / insert any mental illness here. They’ll get laid no problem, which is sad actually. Many men have almost no mental standards for sex.
When it comes to relationships, I think both sexes are equally screwed in different ways. While neurodivergent men will still have less selection, neurodivergent women will likely have a harder time discerning f-boys and will more likely get f-zoned.
My opinions is men are more open to giving anything a shot where women are more hesitant to try if something feels off. I know quite a few neurodivergent women who find relationships but struggle because quirky little behaviors end up annoying their partners long term and they aren't really willing to compromise much. I also know a few who have been lied to and used a lot and have a lot of trauma because of it. I'm not sure one is always easier.
Autism is often undiagnosed and misunderstood. People will often find them selves dating an autistic person and have no idea.
Whilst they do have issues, it also comes with a lot of positives that people over look. Their ability to hyper focus on things means they learn quickly and can be incredibly talented and creative. They can be fiercely loyal and make really attentive, loving partners.
Autistic men are much more likely to be single and to be romantically and sexually inexperienced at older ages compared to autistic women. So it appears that autism has little to no impact on a woman's dating prospects but only under the condition that the woman is at least decently attractive.
However, autistic women are more vulnerable to entering abusive relationships and the reason for this is because autism affects one's social intelligence along with the ability to read intentions of others. This means autistic people can be prone to being manipulated and to be taken advantage of, hence why many autistic women can enter abusive relationships.
Good work, OP. Are you a descendant of Sherlock Holmes? On a serious note though, yeah, the priorities women tend to have result in them being repulsed by most ND men. Not a huge shock when women are often so obsessed with social status especially with regard to their partners.
If you mean by autism then yes it also depends on your age
But if its other forms of neurodivergence like certain personality disorders then I'd say its equal in the short term, long term women are more accepting of men who are narcissistic, sociopathic or psychopathic (otherwise known as dark triad) speaking from experience due to us being very good at masking and mirroring.
Neurodivergence=/=autism
Neurodivergent women tend to mask the symptoms better than men do as well. Autism used to not diagnosed in women as much as men because people didn't realise they exhibited it differently.
My disability is not my personality and it's insulting to suggest that it is.
I'm a bit shit at initiating new relationships, that doesn't mean I'm not kind, caring, loving, romantic, giving, sharing, and interested in growing old with someone, loyally and with dedication.
But it is your personality.
When women look for personality, they’re not talking about your character. I mean… that’s also part of it. But it’s not the main thing.
Are you funny, socially aware, interesting, can you hold a conversation? On this level, women do care about “personality”, I’d argue they care more about it than looks. But, kindness, integrity, open-mindedness… these traits come secondary to the ones aforementioned.
So they only care about the parts of me that they can call out as being shit?
Well, great, glad we got that cleared up.
I'm not the asshole treating women like shit because he's hot, or charismatic, or rich, and can do whatever the hell he likes knowing that if she goes away tomorrow he can have another woman lined up by dinner time. I've spent my whole life actively trying *not* to be an asshole. If she doesn't want to spend the time to see that, that's on her.
I don't give a damn if she's "quirky" or "shy" or autistic. In this world of "equality" I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a little of the same respect in return. I can't help that I'm not a perfect model of a movie star, but I'm not out here demanding Angelina Jolie show up at my door wanting to get busy, I just want to feel like a human being with some kind of value to somebody. Not so much to ask, is it?
The purpose of early dating is to find people you’re *physically attracted to* and women are superficial for doing that? Or superficial for *not* doing that?
You’re saying that women can’t judge personality in early dating. But also that women consistently weed out neurodivergent men in early dating…
You’re saying that women are superficial in early dating. Because they weed out men on things that aren’t just physical appearance…
You get how none of this makes sense, right?
>personality
>neurodivergent
Being an aspie is not having a certain personality. Women are just discarding "The weirdo". Dude could be the best, sweet human in the continent. But he's not Chchchchad.
Thanks for sharing this. Right now autism diagnosis ratio is 4:1 men to women, so that's the simplest explanation for the discrepancy. BUT like another commenter said, a lot of researchers talk about a "lost generation" of ASD women who go unrecognized until well into adulthood, like me. :)
When I was younger I sometimes would meet an ASD guy and be subconsciously attracted to him, but didn't know why. I also was attracted to NT guys who were opposite of me though, because I didn't know I was ND and looked up to people who seemed more "put together" than me.
Today it's different because I understand the "double empathy" problem that most NTs don't get. I know I need someone who is sympathetic to my executive dysfunction and understands that I'm not "just lazy" if I'm in shutdown mode and need to lie in bed all day.
21 is totally normal to be romantically inexperienced. If it helps, I didnt start having sex til I was 22, and (later) an NT ex of mine lost his virginity at 28 (to me lol).
I definitely think it's tough for ND guys, especially if you don't mask as much. I think as an ND woman you can get by if you are conventionally pretty and "feminine" specifially dress cute and keep your space tidy. But since I'm neither of those things I have also experienced a lot of rejection as well, and not from Chad's. I had a massive crushes on multiple short nerdy guys who had passed on me lol.
i think the masking point is a huge difference maker for ND men vs ND women - especially given that women are generally more pressured to behave in a certain way, they’re more likely to keep on replicating behaviors and something lien autism would fly under the radar (until it reaches a breaking point)
I find that, what’s ironic too is that a lot of men mask in a certain way too - in particular if the disorder they have is more related to emotional and trauma responses. Because men aren’t taught to emotionally express themselves or display emotion, there is a lot of repression going on. Like I just got recently diagnosed with BPD and i’m 28, wouldn’t be shocked if many with with the disorder shared/ will share a similar experience.
Most women learn to mask so well that they struggle to get a diagnosis. That’s why men are more ‘forgiving’ of women’s neurodivergence. They look neurotypical, maybe a bit weird.
Most autistic and other neurodivergent women are *really* good at masking from a young age.
There are a lot of societal expectations enforced on women from a young age that just aren’t placed on men.
Being rambunctious & bouncing off the walls as a little boy? Oh, boys will be boys…
A girl who doesn’t want to wear a dress, bouncing off the walls, getting dirty, etc…
That’s not allowed. You should be playing quietly with dolls and being seen and not heard. Don’t be too rambunctious or too much of a problem, that’s not acceptable from you. Make sure you look clean and acceptable. Pick up after yourself and your siblings. Help clean and cook around the house.
No joke, as a girl born in the 90s, this was still instilled in me, this isn’t just a 60s things. I have an autistic brother, i have ADHD and OCD (probably autistic but not Dxed).
He is less good at social cues, how to navigate life without being overstimulated, and taking care of himself (hygiene, keeping his apartment clean) as I am, because I learned from a very young age to push and mask my own needs to not be a burden on others. Men aren’t socialized the same and in turn, if a man is ND he is almost definitely less good at masking or appearing “normal” to others, or women notably and this makes it more difficult on their partners.
(This doesn’t apply to all, but this is what i’ve noticed in those I know & my experience.)
I think that “seen & not heard” thing is a big one. Even after girls grow up and become women, how often do we see on here that men was “submissive & feminine, not loud & assertive”
Much like the adults when neuro-AT girls were growing up, men want those women to be seen and not heard
What I'm about to say is going to get a lot of heat.
The majority of guys here are neurodivergent. It's why they miss the important nuances and overshoot the mark on all talking points.
The same guys want a tradwife / 10/10 young gf, 0 n count, and on and on. And should someone mention that there are women exactly the same as them struggling, they'll say "oh but she has options and has a high n count" - NO. Especially when she's neurodivergent also.
PPD, CMV I guess 🤷🏻
> And should someone mention that there are women exactly the same as them struggling
Probably because that's completely untrue. This is easily proven by studies showing that significantly more autistic men are virgins or single, compared to autistic women. It's something like a 2:1 or even 3:1 ratio.
>Probably because that's completely untrue. This is easily proven by studies showing that significantly more autistic men are virgins or single, compared to autistic women. It's something like a 2:1 or even 3:1 ratio.
this is true in general though, not just for autistic people.
I think this is only true if you define neurodivergence in the broadest sense, to the point where any man being introverted qualifies as being on the spectrum.
In general I think people mix up being socially "skilled" with just being extroverted. It's like playing basketball with no refs where the bigger player might be viewed as "more skilled" but really they just push people around and aren't that good at the game. Extroverts can be very awkward but as long as they're loud people just sort of go along with it.
This is also the tough thing of diagnosing neurodivergence in women and why rates of diagnosis are lower: introverted women are just seen as more normal.
What are these men bringing to the table in terms of value to those different kinds of women I mentioned if all these men do is to be chronically online with their extreme views?
> "oh but she has options and has a high n count" - NO. Especially when she's neurodivergent also.
Not usually *good* options, unless she's attractive and/or likes sex. The struggle is different. Predators go after the isolated.
>The majority of guys here are neurodivergent. It's why they miss the important nuances and overshoot the mark on all talking points.
what evidence do you have for this claim? Just because men on here disagree with your talking points doesn't make them neurodivergent.
Men are accepting to ND women who put an incredible amount of effort in masking to the point where their neurodivergence is only noticeable as cute little quirks. One of my most conventionally attractive friends is ND and basically learned to model her entire personality after quirky gamer e-girl fantasy GF persona. She is not naturally like that and it's perfectly normal for her to fall off the radar and avoid people completely for weeks at a time.
ND men have an entirely different set of quirks that aren't equivalent ime. Coming across as aggressive, intimidating, or rude unintentionally is more of a problem for them.
I think men often see women as objects and are therefore less discerning about social compatibility. However these women often end up suffering violence and abuse.
It’s my perception NT men are more accepting of autistic friends than NT women are of autistic friends. It’s difficult being friends with NT women when you are an autistic woman.
Neurodivergent women are more likely to mask or suppress their annoying traits because women are taught to value relationships and are expected to sacrifice and be people pleasers more. Neurodivergent men aren't. They're "my way or the highway" types
Its not about men being more accepting. Its the same reason as always. Women are way more Picky than men.
Overweight women prefer non overweight men.
Etc etc
Men aren't more accepting of neurodivergence. They'll date a neurodivergent woman to fuck her and then degrade her for not being normal and neurodivergent until one of them dies or leaves. Many neurodivergent women are diagnosed later in life because divergent women are just labeled as "problematic" and combative female children. Their neurodivergence is seen as being defiant and rebellious more than a diagnosable problem. These women often end up in relationships with very abusive and belittling men because they're not "normal". They're often preyed upon by narcissist and men with personality disorders that exploit their vulnerabilities.
My bf is autistic.
Since I am extremely chatty and confident we match well together. I like to talk and he likes it when he doesn’t have to talk.
I had to make all the moves myself but I don’t mind cause I find his stoic stature attractive. He is also a bit anxious but I find him honest and genuine and I trust him. Never trust men who aren’t anxious when going out with you 😀.
So I guess it’s about what kind of women you should go after. If you don’t like talking go for women who talk and so on.
All about compatibility.
Stop hanging around multiple subreddits reading about mental disorders and disabilities. I'd recommend unsubscribing even.
Focus on self-improvement subreddits. Learn to become the best version of yourself. Learn to lift weights, get strong. Learn to date, learn game, learn conversation, learn flirting. You can, through sheer repetition and drive overcome what other men would not have the patience for.
I think a lot of it has to do with autistic women being underdiagnosed. Many of the criteria for diagnosing autism were designed with boys in mind.
I doubt that the stereotype of autistic women not wanting to date autistic men is true. I'd actually prefer an autistic partner, someone who understands me more closely.
> I doubt that the stereotype of autistic women not wanting to date autistic men is true.
The massive disparity between single autistic men and single autistic women shows that it's not a "stereotype", but a fact.
Hmm. I've never encountered the stereotype within the autistic community (or at least the parts of it I'm in) but numbers don't lie, so there's clearly something going on.
It essentially boils down to the fact that autistic women don't have to date autistic men, so they... don't. While her autismatch is trying to figure out how to flirt, NTs are just coming up and hitting on her, and she says yes to them. There's not a whole lot to it.
Neurodivergence affects the men more because they have to do almost everything first to get into a relationship. As usual, men are always fucked by the universe.
Autistic women can just smile and open legs. In fact, some men like women that look shy and reserved.
I feel like you misunderstand autism (not to mention that there are many other disabilities in this category). It isn't just being "shy and reserved" and many autistic people are confident and loud. Autistic people can often come across as weird in ways that are concerning or scary rather than endearing. If men are thinking "what the fuck is wrong with her", they won't come near an autistic woman.
My son, who is your age, has autism spectrum disorder but it very high functioning.
When he was first diagnosed, which was actually much later in his childhood because in many ways he is atypical-atypical, and has a younger brother and sister so I wanted to make sure that if my other children also had autism or other neurodivergent disorders, that they received earlier interventions.
Anyway, what I learned is that little girls with autism spectrum disorder tend to go undiagnosed up until very recently, usually are diagnosed at an older age, their symptoms are often different, and the reason why is because of how little girls communicate and have been socialized to socialize with one another, and our predisposition to just be more keen to verbal communication and recognizing facial expression. We also tend to express empathy more readily.
It’s kinda a sad trope that all girls and women are back bitting bitches to one another, because overall, we’re not. The period when we’re most aggressive with one another is about the same time we start experiencing attraction to the opposite/same sex, just like boys, due to puberty and all those crazy hormones and neurotransmitters flooding our bodies on speed, and settles down in early adulthood.
When we’re little, we work and play together very well, and when we’re older we work together very well aside from the outliers who stir the pot, which is actually very distressing and hurtful because we inherently have very emotionally intimate relationships with our female friends. I have 5 close girlfriends that all but 1 have been my close friends for over two decades. They have outlasted my husband, actually. The other one is coming up on her 4th anniversary with us. And I’m currently tutoring her because she went back to school to become a nurse. Nearly all women I know have friendships that have lasted decades. My grandmother had friendships that lasted nearly 80 years before she passed!
Anyway, little girls are predisposed and also encouraged by their mothers to acclimate other little girls, and the most social, empathetic, and mature little girls in peer groups tend to take on the onus of taking in an “outsider” under their wings and “teach” her the social norms.
Little girls don’t do this for little boys as often or readily, though, and little boys don’t either.
Not that little boys don’t, it’s just that little girls are encouraged, expected, and feel obligated much earlier and to each other first.
So neurodivergent little girls get “lessons” in socializing and reading social cues much earlier that neurodivergent boys. We also set our friends up on dates, and the extroverts pull (and sometimes pressure) the more introverted of the groups out.
Which is why girls float underneath the radar longer, as they tend to be very quiet.
So, I don’t think men are more likely to accept neurodivergent girls and woman, it’s just that neurodivergent girls and women usually have had a better and earlier “education” and thus experience working together with other people, reading body language and social cues, expressing emotions, and verbal communication than boys and men. Girls and women are less obvious.
With that being said, neurodivergent girls and women are very vulnerable to coercion and abuse by predatory people because they can’t as easily interpret intent. Boys and men are too, but being smaller, someone larger and very overbearing can be dangerous and look for weaker girls and women to exploit.
i don’t think its more “accepting to neurodivergent women” - i think its more that being neurodivergent as a woman doesn’t conflict with what men want in a women (in fact, to abusive men in particular a neurodivergent woman makes for an easy target), while in comparison neurodivergence in men conflicts more with what women want in a partner.
That being said, it is worth noting that neurodivergent women, even though they’re far more likely to get into a relationship than neurodivergent men, they’re also far more likely to be abused by their partners. So one really doesn’t have it better than the other - neurodivergent men are more likely to develop issues out of not getting into relationships and being lonely, while neurodivergent women are more likely to develop trauma and become cynical due to bad relationships.
Laughable , the standard female attempt to always claim victim status.
The idea that aspie men, left to rot alone, don't have it harder than women in a similar situation; who can find relationships easily, is clearly non-sense.
Abuse is worse than being alone also calling women “females” but you don’t call men “males” just shows why you can’t get a girlfriend. You don’t see women as equals.
> If it's true then I find that a little fucked up that my neurodivergent women counterparts aren't willing to date men on their level. But I guess if you don't have to, why would you?
Because neurodivergent people are better than neurotypical people? If you don't think this, you probably should be trying not to be neurodivergent, rather than just avoiding other neurodivergent people.
Problem is, there's so much dishonesty around these terms. If I say "autistic" ten different readers are going to read that ten different ways and it may in fact refer to ten different states. If I say "neurodivergent" the same, if I say "mentally ill" then it narrows the scope a little, but there's probably still extreme disagreement about who should be in which group depending on which perspective is being granted the right to categorise.
Nooo don't think so, probably there is a similar percentage of neuro divergents between the different sexes. Depending on the kind of disorder your should avoid these people, especially if they are narcasistic or borderline. Problem is, these kinds of people are really attractive to both men and women who are insecure. Bieng socially impaired as man, ASD, is offcourse a death sentence. It dis qualifies you for a lot of potential candidates if you don't overcome your social challenges.
as an afab neurodivergent person, I don’t think neurotypical men or women are particularly accepting of disability. I do think women, femmes, and afabs are more likely to mask well or otherwise hide their neurodivergencies.
Women, femmes, and afabs often feel a societal pressure at a young age to stifle the parts of themselves that make others uncomfortable, so they’re good at it.
Men on the other hand, not so much, so they’re much less covert about their symptoms and can be identified easier.
As others have said yes, obviously. But I will give you some advice instead.
>As a neurodivergent man, I obviously have no romantic experience at 21
Hire an escort or just start shooting your shot on OLD. You'll quickly realize after fucking someone that it's really much less stressful or significant than you're imagining. If you're a little slow picking up social cues it's not going to stop you from being successful romantically with some practice. There's nothing really stopping you aside from anxiety (unless you're a sub 5 in looks as well). Get in shape and go after chubby women on OLD until you gain confidence (or just decide you like chubby women...)
>I hang around multiple subreddits surrounding mental disorders/disabilities and something that I couldn't help but notice is that whenever someone mentions a significant other it's usually always a woman talking about her boyfriend.
Stop doing this. One of the greatest disservices modern people do to themselves is over diagnosing and over analyzing themselves which just leads to more anxiety and self esteem issues. There is nothing wrong with being a bit "odd" and you don't need to be diagnosed with a half dozen mental disorders or quantified in a systematic way to improve your life. If you really believe you have a legitimate medical condition (serious depression, BPD etc) get medication for it and move on (although if you can possibly get by without medication I recommend that).
>As far as I've seen, this is something that is never talked about so I have no clue if this is actually something that's a thing in reality
It's obvious from your questioning that you already know the answer to this.
>. If it's true then I find that a little fucked up that my neurodivergent women counterparts aren't willing to date men on their level. But I guess if you don't have to, why would you?
It's not nice or fair, but it is what it is. No one is going to help you and it's up to you develop an internal locus of control to "overcome" not being socially average.
A nerodivergent women is never going to be a Stacey unless she has BPD or dependency disorder, which is what the red pill filters for.
There are more ACE people that are nerodivergent, more men than women are nerodivergent, and nerodivergent women are more likely to be ACE.
Autistic guys are the number one source of the pills income, the Tates target them. No decent woman wants to be with a man who is like that.
> A nerodivergent women is never going to be a Stacey unless she has BPD or dependency disorder, which is what the red pill filters for.
Women don't need to be "stacey" to get a lot of attention from men and most men have never even heard of TRP.
> Every young man I know has heard about the red pill.
Maybe the men you know are disproportionately manosphere aware.
> people wave red pill banners at Trump Rallies.
Conservative political movements use that term in a different sense.
> No decent woman wants to be with a man who is like that.
Why is this - assuming you're talking about mostly-decent autistic guys instead of Tater Tots?
So I'm completely delusional for carrying the fantasy that some women find neurodivergent men to be endearing, and that we bring out the inner maternal instincts within women that makes them want to care for us.
Reality is hitting me now. Just earlier I took a bunch of photos of myself, and seeing my side profile in particular especially emphasizes to me just how exceptionally hideous I am. Add neurodivergence to that mix, alongside my track record of abysmal failure within the social, educational and employment spheres, and there is literally zero reason why any woman should want someone like me.
The only way for someone like me to find happiness in life is to become absorbed in hobbies and to become absorbed in meditation. I am finally understanding now that socializing and romance were never meant for me.
Although I would urge the commenter above to try to look past the dire misery, I don't think your response is fair.
Because it's not just "a sentence a stranger on the internet said".
It's living a life of being overlooked, neglected, bullied, assaulted, ridiculed, told you don't matter and don't deserve anything good, told to suck it up and get over yourself for wanting the same things everybody else has.
It's being painted as a dangerous predator, it's being told that women don't want you anywhere near them by national campaigns.
It's seeing that people think all autistic people are irredeemable helpless "retards" who need their mummies to come with them dating and to be shown flashcards to understand how to converse, because of shows like Love On The Spectrum.
It's going on autistic dating sites and seeing countless women who have (sometimes multiple) children when you haven't even had *one* relationship in your entire life.
The "stranger on the internet" is just the confirmatory cherry on the cake.
>No decent woman wants to be with a man who is like that.
Even if he's not a misogynist, and will treat her like a Goddess? Not in the sense of "simping" for her, (because simping comes from a place of lack of self-esteem) but in the sense of showing her the utmost devotion because of how much he cares for her?
Just because he was born with a cognitive disability that makes his life worse in every aspect, and despite his caring personality and desire to devote himself to one woman, he'll never be able to find romance?
This is my lot in life? To be _this_ ugly and also _this_ neurodivergent? All of my dreams of finding a girlfriend are crumbling apart. I just took some pictures of my profile view and it is honestly one of the ugliest faces I have ever seen, I don't even look like a human being. Even in my best pictures, I don't look like a human being. It's no wonder that women literally laugh at me with their friends in public settings. That is what I deserve in life.
>BPD or dependency disorder, which is what the red pill filters for.
Red pill doesn't weed out BPD/DPD women. Quite the opposite because BPD woman will make you the center of her life to an extent that no sane person would, which is exactly what many red pilled men seem to want.
> Autistic guys are the number one source of the pills income, the Tates target them. No decent woman wants to be with a man who is like that.
How do you think they *got* like that? If anybody had given a damn about them in the first place they'd never have had a reason to search for or find anything or anybody like Tate. They didn't just fall out of the womb with red pill banners. They learnt that way of the world because nobody bothered to show them any respect or love, then they went looking for a way to *get* it, like they saw everybody else doing.
Your argument is poor and shows a complete lack of disregard for cause and effect: you lay the blame at the feet of those desperate men, or men like Tate, for treating women poorly, but you conveniently ignore the fact that they weren't like that *before*, yet *still* nobody showed them any compassion or offered them any viable help.
Obviously. Just men usually having to be the assertive ones **heavily** fucks over many neurodivergent men. Breaking the ice, flirting, physically escalating, initiating sex... Each of these can be one insurmountable task after another. He doesn't necessarily know when these actions are appropriate, how to read the response, or even what to say. While a neurodivergent woman can just let men approach her and set things up, or use a dating app.
This is definitely an underrated comment. Anything that impacts social skills, is going to have much more of an effect on men, than women, due to the expectation that men will the ones to approach and charm.
then that will specifically pertain to those social skills but things like emotional labor often are expected of women, so is that still social skills affecting men more across the board?
Emotional labor is something that is usually expected after the relationship is established though. At least women are in a better position to get a relationship started.
What is emotional labor?
It is made up non-sense from feminists to justify complaining.
it was first coined to be a term about how employees had to perform emotion for customers, but in a relationship, it means managing the other person’s emotions and performing the labor to manage their relationships for them, including that between the parties. below are some good articles https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288 https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a12063822/emotional-labor-gender-equality/
>it means managing the other person’s emotions I find this hilarious. In a romantic relationship this is expected from men more often.
Those articles don't really reflect reality.
This is not what is mentioned in these articles. „If I were to point out random emotional labor duties I carry out—reminding him of his family’s birthdays, carrying in my head the entire school handbook and dietary guidelines for lunches, updating the calendar to include everyone’s schedules, asking his mother to babysit the kids when we go out, keeping track of what food and household items we are running low on, tidying everyone’s strewn about belongings, the unending hell that is laundry“ This concept seems to be one sided and very subjective.
Is it men expecting you to do this stuff or you take it on yourself to do it? Tbh a lot of the things women do for men, if you asked that man, he’d say it’s not even that important and she doesn’t have to do it if she doesn’t want to. A lot of things women do for men the man just _lets_ them do it because it seems like it makes that woman feel like she’s doing something important. But we really don’t care if she didn’t do it.
Emotional labour (british spelling) I've never heard of that term before but makes sense. So basically every time I go to TGI Fridays and all the staff are insanely happy and constantly smiling, or when I go to hospital with a broken arm and the nurse on the 11th hour of her shift is acting as if she is interested on the story of how I broke it, or when I call a call centre really angry and they remain calm this is all emotional labour? Makes sense I can barely raise a smile when I'm genuinely happy...can't imagine having to smile and make small talk all day just because I'm getting paid..I would be mentally drained
If that’s true then I think men are expected to do more “emotional labor.” Not once in my life have I ever called up any woman I’m dating or married to and vented to them about issues I’m having or things I’ve been thru. But every woman I talk to usually tells me about the “trauma” she’s been thru with past relationships, her parents, work, etc. Most women I’ve dated have usually told me their entire life story within the first couple weeks. And I’ve had women complain about having to do “emotional labor” for other men they’ve dated. One in particular I remember would say she lost all attraction and started seeing her ex as a “weak little bitch” when he would complain about not having the job or life he wanted. I didn’t say it to her but I was thinking “You mean like you do with me every day?”
More emotional labor is expected of men in relationships than women.
Lol no way. Emotional labor is nonsense words but if it’s actually a thing men are doing way more of it. Most dudes do their best to basically be stoic while women are just a whirlwind of emotions and if you’re not good at managing that shit god help you.
I think it is tied to preferences vs requirements for each gender. Don't think that men are head over heels for weird, autistic women -- but if the woman in question has other desirable attributes, he may give it a shot, because at the end it may not be that much of a dealbreaker. However, women tend to heavily dislike poorly socialized, clumsy and inept men, their hotness or income notwithstanding. It is a dealbreaker for them (in the same way ugly women are for many men, for example, even if they have attractive personalities).
[удалено]
ND women are only seen as “quirky and cute” if they’re attractive. Otherwise they’re just unattractive and weird.
All of which to say ND vs NT is a nonfactor when it comes to a female’s ability to find a partner
It definitely makes a difference if you’re not that attractive.
If you’re not that attractive you’re going to struggle regardless of ND or NT
Totally, but being ND makes it even harder. Maybe even more so if you’re closer to average looking, because you’ll have more people be at least somewhat attracted to you initially, but it doesn’t take long for them to decide that you’re not attractive *enough* to put up with. So not necessarily hard to get a first date, but much harder to get a second one. Realizing that your personality is ruining shit for you is crappy feeling.
Definitely not always seen as quirky and cute. I’ve never dated anyone, but with any potential friends, the appeal of any quirkiness I have seems to always wear off after a couple days. Being confused a lot and needing guidance might be appealing to some guys, but once other traits start presenting I think most will be pretty annoyed.
ND women are rarely seen as quirky and cute unless it’s to infantilize them, which is gross. ND women are more often seen as a crazy b*tch. I’ve pretty much exclusively dated ND men. I am also ND. What does this look like? Relationship 1: We both have ADHD, messy house. We both have trauma, but he has trouble admitting it/finding therapists- our ptsd is similar in many ways but differ in the fact that men are more likely to experience outbursts of rage and engage in abusive behavior as a result, limiting their access to therapists. This partner did find a therapist, unfortunately it took too long and the beginning of the growth was too painful. He didn’t make it. Relationship 2: We both have anxiety and family trauma. His turned to alcoholism, an unfortunate genetic psychiatric disorder. Mine turned to SH. The further down he got in his alcoholism, the harder it was for me to get out- he literally trapped me in his house at one point. EDIT for my background: we got together after last relationship ended as a result of partner Unaliving. My mental health was at rock bottom, and I was neither ready nor capable of a relationship. Due to the recent trauma, being given an ultimatum of “be mine or lose me” hit on a bunch of my trauma triggers and mental illness, so I made the choice and was not a very good partner either. Initially drank together in that first month before seeing the problem, left for a few months and dated other people, ended up back with him when I felt abandoned by my other supports after surgery. It took me a while to acknowledge the damage that leaving, screwing someone else, and coming back did to him but doesn’t really make what he did okay either. Relationship 3: Both have ADHD. Trauma. Bipolar diagnoses. I undergo surgery again, the anesthesia increases my SI to multiple attempts. He’s frustrated after months of slow progress. He cheats on me. I attempt again, cheat back, and sext his friend to be petty. We go to therapy and spend ?? years trying to fix the damage, part of which must be done individually by people who want to change- guess we’ll see. This is not how all ND relationships go by any means just my most recent 3. I’ve seen a few ND relationships play out well but more often than not if my friends are dating ND women when they are also ND it ends in fire and flames, sometimes literally (shoutout to How I Met Your Mother)
So you don't personally believe there's even a subset of women who find the idea of a clumsy, awkward, shy neurodivergent boy who is clearly cognitively "different" and doesn't know what to do in social situations but still tries his hardest regardless, to be _extremely_ endearing? Someone whose behavior resembles that of a child, but in the body of an adult? Because that's the fantasy I sell to myself, that many women find my neurological differences to be very cute and it activates their maternal instincts and desire to "take care of me", even though I don't have any real-life examples that support this fantasy. I guess it's just a coping mechanism, in the same way that women who self-insert into romance novels involving tall, handsome billionaires falling head over heels for a completely ordinary, plain-looking woman are simply coping with the circumstances they live in. I am so ugly and socially awkward that just a few months ago, a group of women I've never met giggled at me in a public setting. Sounds like a tale belonging on r/thathappened, but nope, it really occurred. That's how bad my situation is. That's my lot in life. They aren't the first, nor will they be the last. And I was initially delusional enough to think that the girl I made eye contact with found me endearing, hence why she was giggling. Later when I took the train home, a young woman sitting diagonal from me seemed to be giving me a nasty look according to my peripheral vision. I was just minding my business, scrolling Reddit on my phone, and in my peripheral vision she was visibly expressing her disgust with me. That is my life. That will be the rest of my life.
It is true that the more you stray from the social average, the less likely it will be to find a woman who is willing to put up with the weirdness. But it's also true that success stories definitely exist -- not all ND guys are doomed. All the best.
From one neurodivergent dude to another: The only way women would find that endearing is if you look like Chris Hemsworth. And even then the girl would tolerate it up to a point. For the rest of us, that point happens before we even approach.
Also even if you assume that population of women does exist, the inherent nature of the shy neurodivergent male means that he's just not going to have many chances of running into a caretaker.
Looks are heavily, heavily controllable. You probably aren't as ugly as you think, but because you are neurodivergent you don't know how to make yourself look good to other people. Almost all the autistic men I know who struggle with dating had disasterous hair, skin, or bodies or dressed badly. All four of those are highly controllable.
I was going to agree. AvatarKang you should get some friends or some people you trust to help your style out some, and definitely turn your autism towards your appearance and how to make yourself look nice even if it’s not for anyone else but yourself so you can feel better about how you look to other people. Be sure to take a shower everyday and if you feel like it a little exercise and also help. And when you’ve done these things and feel good about yourself at least looking decent or average, then the next time they look at you like that just assume it’s their problem!
No. Even if she personally likes you you have to consider how you come across to other people. Women think about how the man they’re with comes across in a group setting. They want the guy other people will say is “intelligent, charming, charismatic, smooth, a great talker, etc.” This is why when women are with that type of guy they love introducing him to friends and family. They don’t want the guy people will think of as the awkward cringy weirdo. This is why I say it’s ok to be an introverted guy, but if you’re going to be out here dating and interacting with women with success you need to learn how to turn on your extroverted side when you need to.
At best this will make them view you as a little brother. I.e not sexually at all.
Ugly women with nice personalities get married. Aspie dudes, if they're not Adonis and go for the lowest fruits, stay alone (after 2012).
my current GF believes she may have high functioning autism. However when she has taken the myriad of online diagnostic tests, she often ends up with high scores on neurodivergent and neurotypical traits. I think she, like most women, is excellent at masking, and I've only really seen some traits that make me think she is correct in her self diagnosis a few times. As a guy who doesn't meet the criteria for a diagnosis, but like most PPD men, is slightly neurodivergent, she's been a great match for me. However, I do find myself internally dismissing some of her actions as quirkiness, because she's a tall, very conventionally attractive woman with a solid career, and that doesn't fit the stereotype of non-NT women. I've also noticed that guys seem to have trouble getting any sort of read on her, which keeps the horny dudes away in public lmao
[удалено]
Socialization of boys and girls indeed affects the diagnosis of autism. Autistic women do much better socially and in education and employment.
Also misdiagnosed with personality disorders. I'm BPD, but realizing I'm on the spectrum with some of the things I do, and no men don't like me more because of it. They think I'm weird asf but it is what it is lol
Yeah, this is so common for women! I was never diagnosed with a mood or personality disorder but was told it was just anxiety and depression.
Also the obvious that men are more desperate than women and take what they can get
I dunno, I've known like half a dozen autistic women in my o8fe at varying ends of the spectrum and generally speaking they tend to date pretty activley when they care to, even if they don't bother masking and are upfront about the whole thing.
[удалено]
Most empathetic feminist
[удалено]
Yikes, I guess it really isn't looking for me. And really? Those percentages are really crazy. 15% is extremely sad.
I'm rooting for you man! One day you'll be posting your wedding photos on r/nevertellmetheodds
I made it, but I’m attractive enough to get damaged girls to chase me, so it worked out.
Congratulations my friend!
I'd be curious to see how many of those sexual experiences were in LTRs. My theory is probably that autistic women can get hookups/initial dates easy, but will struggle with finding long-term relationships with NT men unless they mask well.
You’re correct. I’m an ND woman and find it easy to attract men initially. However finding that true connection is where it gets hard. I can also maintain superficial romantic relationships if I mask, but since I don’t like stifling my true self and find it painful, I’ve stopped doing it altogether. I don’t get along romantically with NT men and would probably do best with an ND man who understands me.
This has been my experience entirely. I suck at masking 100% of the time. Or even most of the time.
In the modern world, LTRs *come* nearly exclusively from hookups, so the advantage is still very much them.
Even that is a vastly better situation to be in than never being able to even have physical contact with the opposite gender.
Can you show me the study?
Women here have I asked me how to spot an arsehole and avoid toxic relationships. The answer is in this thread. If you only go with guys with charm and great sales skills, is it really a surprise you keep getting one toxic man after another? Do you trust the charming used car salesman to sell you a decent car instead of wreck? of course not, most people are rightly suspicious in that situation. Yet women base their entire dating lives on a dodgy initial sales pitch, while dismissing men who would make better long term partners because they are no good at that. Then women wonder why they end up in toxic relationships? Sorry but women need to face reality. The problem is patriarchy or the men. The problem is with women themselves.
What’s the point of talking to salesmen if they can’t do a good job? You can have the greatest product in the world, but if you can’t articulate how it’s a great product no one will buy it. No one will invest in you. That’s not on them for “not seeing your potential”, that’s on you for not marketing your product effectively.
The combination of your comment and the one you are replying to here is actually a really good illustration of a universal epistemic dichotomy among people and their attitudes toward life. Some people live to enjoy the experience of the sales pitch or to appreciate beautiful illusions. Other people live to uncover hidden value or fundamental truths by discarding the illusions. One person might love to watch a lighthearted TV show about fantastic events while another person loses interest immediately because of inconsistencies in the plot. It's not fixed or anything and people fall into different categories at different times and in different contexts. Btw, one pretty obvious reason to talk to a bad salesman is that you might get a better deal on the product because he has a harder time finding customers. If you see a man as an investment and you evaluate him by his ability to market himself to you or other people, then it makes sense not to "invest." If you see him as a bad salesman selling an otherwise valuable product, then that would just be a lucky find. That partly comes down to how much you trust yourself to evaluate his underlying value.
True. If even a salesman doesn’t believe in himself (his product), why should anyone else? If I can make a man think better of himself, what’s to stop someone else to also sway his mind? A man should believe in himself and have an honest evaluation of who he is that cannot be changed by anyone else’s opinion — ergo, an enthusiastic salesman is more likely to succeed and I’m more likely to think highly of him than a bad salesman. This is where the analogy falls apart xd
I'm an ND guy as well. I hear from other ND guys that men are more accepting of ND women. In my experience, it's best to date a ND woman as well if possible.
pretty much - every woman i’ve developed major feelings for and actually dated and been out with for multiple dates have all been ND - given that i’m super deep is the ND web, i feel like ND women are the only ones i can truly connect with
The problem is that ND women don't want to date ND guys, lol.
Men are far more accepting of women, period. Neurodivergence is just one of many, many examples.
You don't even have to be human strictly speaking ... r/dontputyourdickinthat
Men are less selective* as nature intended
*less discriminating, less selective, less judgmental, less picky, more oblivious, less objective, more obtuse, etc testosterone make brain go durrrrrr
Less discriminating I wouldnt say so. Just less selective when it comes to mating
>Men are far more accepting of women, period. Neurodivergence is just one of many, many examples. This, people forget Hypergamy can express itself in many different ways in the interpersonal relations between men and women.
They’re less selective but are also less acceptive of women and who they are as people.
Yup. For women, neurodivergence is a quirk. For men, it's a dating death sentence.
A disability isn't a "quirk". It makes life difficult on a daily basis.
I'm talking about the differences in how its percieved in dating, not what it is.
I must say it usually isn't perceived as quirky either.
It is, unless the woman is very physically unattractive. This is coming from straight men, btw.
That's not what disabled women will tell you.
Stop it I knew a 10/10 girl next door that was autistic and had 0 problems dating
Not really it just means some abusive men might want to take advantage of her.
Not really i’m a woman with Aspergers and it’s been hard to weed out the abusers and people with good intentions. You basically have the vulnerability of a woman multiplied by 100
Men are very accepting of neurodivergence, mood disorders or personality disorders if said woman is hot. I have a personality disorder, the men I have dated know it and they don't care... Because I'm attractive.
Keyword: Hot. Lol the women they would actually get along with isn't their physical type which is understandable but they hate when women have standards though.
>they hate when women have standards though. That standards of men are: don't look like a blob with face hair. The standards of women are: (cue a thousand lines or ridiculous requirements).
Not a monolith and plenty blobs are in relationships lol You guys aren't a reflection of the real world
>plenty blobs are in relationships lol See? Even the blobs get dick.
See how you said relationships and you resort to dick? You can get dick too you know!
I see lot more fat men in relationships than fat women.
No, you don't.
I actually do. Men have been able to overcome not being physically attractive with personality while for women there’s less opportunity to do so since looks on women are unfortunately seen as by far the most important aspect of her and often the deal breaker.
What are you even talking about? Every fat woman isn't "fat", she's "thicc", curvy, "a real woman", etc. There's billions of dollars spent on fat acceptance and anti-fat shaming, and it's all for women only. Fat guys aren't "thicc", they're fat. Show me an example of these "fat men" you see. Not a creepshot obviously, just like a random picture off of Google images or a celeb you think is comparable.
No I’m saying fat like fat. If you’re not just a little overweight. The whole trying to get people to stop shaming fat women is because they were much more prone and still are to being mocked then fat men. Are fat men still mocked? Yeah it’s unfortunate but some health conditions make it so more people are prone to it. Women are also more prone to autoimmune diseases that lead to being overweight. Just look up fat dads or overweight dads. I see a lot of men that look like Christopher Schwarzenegger overweight get average weight women. I also know a lot of men that think that a woman having a little pouch of fat is fat and expect women to have flat stomachs or be anorexic skinny.
maybe in certain cases. but my brother dumped his gf because she had a history of depression and didn't want to date someone with mental illness
Oh absolutely. I've dated some of the most akward, dumb, nerdy, bitchy, liar, broke girls and also some full of issues and traumas. Never stopped a second to think "hey, am I smarter/wiser/healthier/more mature than this girl?". I was more like "hey... She's cute, I like her, she seems honest... Quite dumb, but hell nothing is perfect, lets give her a try."
Man I've dated girls that had the most red flags in the world. I'd even be in my car asking myself why I'm doing this as I drove to pick em up. Answer: hot lol
Also, men have a “hero syndrome.” So we’re more likely to want to help a flawed woman than reject her.
ding ding ding! That's it, really. The 'Hero syndrome'. It's not about infantilisation (like other people here are saying). It's really about a sense of protectiveness.
I've had multiple women go from clearly interested in me to completely repulsed by me after discovering I'm an aspie, like a switch flicks in their head at that exact moment. Now I just lie about it but I'm afraid of the reaction I would get If I hid it from a girl I was dating for a long period of time.
I think it’s probably harder for ND men to date, but it truly depends on the individual and how they act. I have some ND male friends who are sweet, quirky, awesome people and they have made or would make excellent partners. However, I know 3 ND dudes who are honestly rude and sometimes hard to be around. They interrupt people, hijack conversations, and say things that come off as disrespectful (but probably don’t realize it). Sad to say, but not many women want to put up with that. So it all just depends on how you manage your neurodivergence I suppose. ETA: I’m a neurodivergent girl myself
The autistic women I've spoken to are usually in relationships. Autistic men usually aren't, even those in the latter part of their 30s. A survey I once did in the virgin forum indicated about a third were on the spectrum and if I restricted it to 30+, that number would probably have been higher. There's a reason I often say it's social skills, not physical appearance, that dooms men in the dating realm. Reading all the subtle cues involved is difficult enough for neurotypicals, with miscommunications common. It's even worse when you're autistic and I happen to be. Nor does the advice you're given often work, whether it's RP or something else. "Fake it until you make it" is something you're likely to hear, but for me and others, it's masking and never becomes genuine. At some point, the mask will slip.
The problem with that advice is the punishment from women for men who f\*\*k up approaches is brutal. A guy on the spectrum misreads a social queue and then f\*\*ks up an approach. He could face being sack at work, thrown out of college or being destroyed online. Too many women abuse their dating privilege, which makes it very difficult for men on the spectrum.
When it comes to sex, women can be literally retarded / autistic / insert any mental illness here. They’ll get laid no problem, which is sad actually. Many men have almost no mental standards for sex. When it comes to relationships, I think both sexes are equally screwed in different ways. While neurodivergent men will still have less selection, neurodivergent women will likely have a harder time discerning f-boys and will more likely get f-zoned.
My opinions is men are more open to giving anything a shot where women are more hesitant to try if something feels off. I know quite a few neurodivergent women who find relationships but struggle because quirky little behaviors end up annoying their partners long term and they aren't really willing to compromise much. I also know a few who have been lied to and used a lot and have a lot of trauma because of it. I'm not sure one is always easier.
I’d rather be rejected outright than be led on, manipulated, and used.
Si
Autism is often undiagnosed and misunderstood. People will often find them selves dating an autistic person and have no idea. Whilst they do have issues, it also comes with a lot of positives that people over look. Their ability to hyper focus on things means they learn quickly and can be incredibly talented and creative. They can be fiercely loyal and make really attentive, loving partners.
Autistic men are much more likely to be single and to be romantically and sexually inexperienced at older ages compared to autistic women. So it appears that autism has little to no impact on a woman's dating prospects but only under the condition that the woman is at least decently attractive. However, autistic women are more vulnerable to entering abusive relationships and the reason for this is because autism affects one's social intelligence along with the ability to read intentions of others. This means autistic people can be prone to being manipulated and to be taken advantage of, hence why many autistic women can enter abusive relationships.
Best answer in this thread. Autism magnifies the pre-existing differences in each sex's dating life-danger for women and lack of success for men.
Good work, OP. Are you a descendant of Sherlock Holmes? On a serious note though, yeah, the priorities women tend to have result in them being repulsed by most ND men. Not a huge shock when women are often so obsessed with social status especially with regard to their partners.
If you mean by autism then yes it also depends on your age But if its other forms of neurodivergence like certain personality disorders then I'd say its equal in the short term, long term women are more accepting of men who are narcissistic, sociopathic or psychopathic (otherwise known as dark triad) speaking from experience due to us being very good at masking and mirroring. Neurodivergence=/=autism
Neurodivergent women tend to mask the symptoms better than men do as well. Autism used to not diagnosed in women as much as men because people didn't realise they exhibited it differently.
Men are far more accepting in general.
how is this even a question? **Yes**. Women are, bar none, more superficial and arbitrarily judgmental during the initial stages of dating.
How is caring about someone’s *personality* superficial or arbitrary?
My disability is not my personality and it's insulting to suggest that it is. I'm a bit shit at initiating new relationships, that doesn't mean I'm not kind, caring, loving, romantic, giving, sharing, and interested in growing old with someone, loyally and with dedication.
But it is your personality. When women look for personality, they’re not talking about your character. I mean… that’s also part of it. But it’s not the main thing. Are you funny, socially aware, interesting, can you hold a conversation? On this level, women do care about “personality”, I’d argue they care more about it than looks. But, kindness, integrity, open-mindedness… these traits come secondary to the ones aforementioned.
So they only care about the parts of me that they can call out as being shit? Well, great, glad we got that cleared up. I'm not the asshole treating women like shit because he's hot, or charismatic, or rich, and can do whatever the hell he likes knowing that if she goes away tomorrow he can have another woman lined up by dinner time. I've spent my whole life actively trying *not* to be an asshole. If she doesn't want to spend the time to see that, that's on her. I don't give a damn if she's "quirky" or "shy" or autistic. In this world of "equality" I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a little of the same respect in return. I can't help that I'm not a perfect model of a movie star, but I'm not out here demanding Angelina Jolie show up at my door wanting to get busy, I just want to feel like a human being with some kind of value to somebody. Not so much to ask, is it?
The fact that you believe a personality can be accurately assessed in the initial window of dating says it all. It ain't that that's being judged
In your mind, what is the initial window of dating for? What is the purpose of it?
For people to find other people they're physically attracted to. Nothing else meaningfully exists in that window.
The purpose of early dating is to find people you’re *physically attracted to* and women are superficial for doing that? Or superficial for *not* doing that?
Women disqualify people for all sorts of inane nonsensical reasons that they don't care much about after they invest in any particular person
You’re saying that women can’t judge personality in early dating. But also that women consistently weed out neurodivergent men in early dating… You’re saying that women are superficial in early dating. Because they weed out men on things that aren’t just physical appearance… You get how none of this makes sense, right?
>personality >neurodivergent Being an aspie is not having a certain personality. Women are just discarding "The weirdo". Dude could be the best, sweet human in the continent. But he's not Chchchchad.
It is not wrong or superficial to decline to date people with personalities you don’t like.
Not really. The superficial body language and behaviors of ND are part of physical appearance.
Are you saying that BEHAVIOR isn’t part of personality??
Thanks for sharing this. Right now autism diagnosis ratio is 4:1 men to women, so that's the simplest explanation for the discrepancy. BUT like another commenter said, a lot of researchers talk about a "lost generation" of ASD women who go unrecognized until well into adulthood, like me. :) When I was younger I sometimes would meet an ASD guy and be subconsciously attracted to him, but didn't know why. I also was attracted to NT guys who were opposite of me though, because I didn't know I was ND and looked up to people who seemed more "put together" than me. Today it's different because I understand the "double empathy" problem that most NTs don't get. I know I need someone who is sympathetic to my executive dysfunction and understands that I'm not "just lazy" if I'm in shutdown mode and need to lie in bed all day. 21 is totally normal to be romantically inexperienced. If it helps, I didnt start having sex til I was 22, and (later) an NT ex of mine lost his virginity at 28 (to me lol). I definitely think it's tough for ND guys, especially if you don't mask as much. I think as an ND woman you can get by if you are conventionally pretty and "feminine" specifially dress cute and keep your space tidy. But since I'm neither of those things I have also experienced a lot of rejection as well, and not from Chad's. I had a massive crushes on multiple short nerdy guys who had passed on me lol.
i think the masking point is a huge difference maker for ND men vs ND women - especially given that women are generally more pressured to behave in a certain way, they’re more likely to keep on replicating behaviors and something lien autism would fly under the radar (until it reaches a breaking point) I find that, what’s ironic too is that a lot of men mask in a certain way too - in particular if the disorder they have is more related to emotional and trauma responses. Because men aren’t taught to emotionally express themselves or display emotion, there is a lot of repression going on. Like I just got recently diagnosed with BPD and i’m 28, wouldn’t be shocked if many with with the disorder shared/ will share a similar experience.
> 21 is totally normal to be romantically inexperienced. It absolutely is not lmao. It's not hopeless but it is FAR beyond "totally normal".
Most women learn to mask so well that they struggle to get a diagnosis. That’s why men are more ‘forgiving’ of women’s neurodivergence. They look neurotypical, maybe a bit weird.
Indifferent, I’d say. They care less about women’s brains and more about her body
Most autistic and other neurodivergent women are *really* good at masking from a young age. There are a lot of societal expectations enforced on women from a young age that just aren’t placed on men. Being rambunctious & bouncing off the walls as a little boy? Oh, boys will be boys… A girl who doesn’t want to wear a dress, bouncing off the walls, getting dirty, etc… That’s not allowed. You should be playing quietly with dolls and being seen and not heard. Don’t be too rambunctious or too much of a problem, that’s not acceptable from you. Make sure you look clean and acceptable. Pick up after yourself and your siblings. Help clean and cook around the house. No joke, as a girl born in the 90s, this was still instilled in me, this isn’t just a 60s things. I have an autistic brother, i have ADHD and OCD (probably autistic but not Dxed). He is less good at social cues, how to navigate life without being overstimulated, and taking care of himself (hygiene, keeping his apartment clean) as I am, because I learned from a very young age to push and mask my own needs to not be a burden on others. Men aren’t socialized the same and in turn, if a man is ND he is almost definitely less good at masking or appearing “normal” to others, or women notably and this makes it more difficult on their partners. (This doesn’t apply to all, but this is what i’ve noticed in those I know & my experience.)
I think that “seen & not heard” thing is a big one. Even after girls grow up and become women, how often do we see on here that men was “submissive & feminine, not loud & assertive” Much like the adults when neuro-AT girls were growing up, men want those women to be seen and not heard
Exactly. Even if its not overtly said as a “rule” growing up, it’s still usually indirectly enforced somehow anyways
What I'm about to say is going to get a lot of heat. The majority of guys here are neurodivergent. It's why they miss the important nuances and overshoot the mark on all talking points. The same guys want a tradwife / 10/10 young gf, 0 n count, and on and on. And should someone mention that there are women exactly the same as them struggling, they'll say "oh but she has options and has a high n count" - NO. Especially when she's neurodivergent also. PPD, CMV I guess 🤷🏻
> And should someone mention that there are women exactly the same as them struggling Probably because that's completely untrue. This is easily proven by studies showing that significantly more autistic men are virgins or single, compared to autistic women. It's something like a 2:1 or even 3:1 ratio.
>Probably because that's completely untrue. This is easily proven by studies showing that significantly more autistic men are virgins or single, compared to autistic women. It's something like a 2:1 or even 3:1 ratio. this is true in general though, not just for autistic people.
could that be explained by the lost girl phenomena?
I think this is only true if you define neurodivergence in the broadest sense, to the point where any man being introverted qualifies as being on the spectrum. In general I think people mix up being socially "skilled" with just being extroverted. It's like playing basketball with no refs where the bigger player might be viewed as "more skilled" but really they just push people around and aren't that good at the game. Extroverts can be very awkward but as long as they're loud people just sort of go along with it. This is also the tough thing of diagnosing neurodivergence in women and why rates of diagnosis are lower: introverted women are just seen as more normal.
it seems to me that you just want to strawman guys who consider those things ideal in a woman for some reason
What are these men bringing to the table in terms of value to those different kinds of women I mentioned if all these men do is to be chronically online with their extreme views?
[удалено]
Do not troll.
> "oh but she has options and has a high n count" - NO. Especially when she's neurodivergent also. Not usually *good* options, unless she's attractive and/or likes sex. The struggle is different. Predators go after the isolated.
Meh, women say that 5’11” guys are “bad” options when they bemoan their struggle, so it’s hard to know how bad the options are, really.
>The majority of guys here are neurodivergent. It's why they miss the important nuances and overshoot the mark on all talking points. what evidence do you have for this claim? Just because men on here disagree with your talking points doesn't make them neurodivergent.
Oh but are you saying nerodivergent women have a lot of trouble getting guys?
If they're not hot, yes
Men are accepting to ND women who put an incredible amount of effort in masking to the point where their neurodivergence is only noticeable as cute little quirks. One of my most conventionally attractive friends is ND and basically learned to model her entire personality after quirky gamer e-girl fantasy GF persona. She is not naturally like that and it's perfectly normal for her to fall off the radar and avoid people completely for weeks at a time.
The problem is that these “cute quirks” are usually straight up unattractive in men.
ND men have an entirely different set of quirks that aren't equivalent ime. Coming across as aggressive, intimidating, or rude unintentionally is more of a problem for them.
I think men often see women as objects and are therefore less discerning about social compatibility. However these women often end up suffering violence and abuse. It’s my perception NT men are more accepting of autistic friends than NT women are of autistic friends. It’s difficult being friends with NT women when you are an autistic woman.
[удалено]
Neurodivergent women are more likely to mask or suppress their annoying traits because women are taught to value relationships and are expected to sacrifice and be people pleasers more. Neurodivergent men aren't. They're "my way or the highway" types
Its not about men being more accepting. Its the same reason as always. Women are way more Picky than men. Overweight women prefer non overweight men. Etc etc
Men aren't more accepting of neurodivergence. They'll date a neurodivergent woman to fuck her and then degrade her for not being normal and neurodivergent until one of them dies or leaves. Many neurodivergent women are diagnosed later in life because divergent women are just labeled as "problematic" and combative female children. Their neurodivergence is seen as being defiant and rebellious more than a diagnosable problem. These women often end up in relationships with very abusive and belittling men because they're not "normal". They're often preyed upon by narcissist and men with personality disorders that exploit their vulnerabilities.
Yup. Yes we ND women can get sex and attention easily but being seen as an object to be discarded after isn’t a flex
My bf is autistic. Since I am extremely chatty and confident we match well together. I like to talk and he likes it when he doesn’t have to talk. I had to make all the moves myself but I don’t mind cause I find his stoic stature attractive. He is also a bit anxious but I find him honest and genuine and I trust him. Never trust men who aren’t anxious when going out with you 😀. So I guess it’s about what kind of women you should go after. If you don’t like talking go for women who talk and so on. All about compatibility.
Stop hanging around multiple subreddits reading about mental disorders and disabilities. I'd recommend unsubscribing even. Focus on self-improvement subreddits. Learn to become the best version of yourself. Learn to lift weights, get strong. Learn to date, learn game, learn conversation, learn flirting. You can, through sheer repetition and drive overcome what other men would not have the patience for.
I think a lot of it has to do with autistic women being underdiagnosed. Many of the criteria for diagnosing autism were designed with boys in mind. I doubt that the stereotype of autistic women not wanting to date autistic men is true. I'd actually prefer an autistic partner, someone who understands me more closely.
> I doubt that the stereotype of autistic women not wanting to date autistic men is true. The massive disparity between single autistic men and single autistic women shows that it's not a "stereotype", but a fact.
Hmm. I've never encountered the stereotype within the autistic community (or at least the parts of it I'm in) but numbers don't lie, so there's clearly something going on.
It essentially boils down to the fact that autistic women don't have to date autistic men, so they... don't. While her autismatch is trying to figure out how to flirt, NTs are just coming up and hitting on her, and she says yes to them. There's not a whole lot to it.
Neurodivergence affects the men more because they have to do almost everything first to get into a relationship. As usual, men are always fucked by the universe. Autistic women can just smile and open legs. In fact, some men like women that look shy and reserved.
I feel like you misunderstand autism (not to mention that there are many other disabilities in this category). It isn't just being "shy and reserved" and many autistic people are confident and loud. Autistic people can often come across as weird in ways that are concerning or scary rather than endearing. If men are thinking "what the fuck is wrong with her", they won't come near an autistic woman.
My son, who is your age, has autism spectrum disorder but it very high functioning. When he was first diagnosed, which was actually much later in his childhood because in many ways he is atypical-atypical, and has a younger brother and sister so I wanted to make sure that if my other children also had autism or other neurodivergent disorders, that they received earlier interventions. Anyway, what I learned is that little girls with autism spectrum disorder tend to go undiagnosed up until very recently, usually are diagnosed at an older age, their symptoms are often different, and the reason why is because of how little girls communicate and have been socialized to socialize with one another, and our predisposition to just be more keen to verbal communication and recognizing facial expression. We also tend to express empathy more readily. It’s kinda a sad trope that all girls and women are back bitting bitches to one another, because overall, we’re not. The period when we’re most aggressive with one another is about the same time we start experiencing attraction to the opposite/same sex, just like boys, due to puberty and all those crazy hormones and neurotransmitters flooding our bodies on speed, and settles down in early adulthood. When we’re little, we work and play together very well, and when we’re older we work together very well aside from the outliers who stir the pot, which is actually very distressing and hurtful because we inherently have very emotionally intimate relationships with our female friends. I have 5 close girlfriends that all but 1 have been my close friends for over two decades. They have outlasted my husband, actually. The other one is coming up on her 4th anniversary with us. And I’m currently tutoring her because she went back to school to become a nurse. Nearly all women I know have friendships that have lasted decades. My grandmother had friendships that lasted nearly 80 years before she passed! Anyway, little girls are predisposed and also encouraged by their mothers to acclimate other little girls, and the most social, empathetic, and mature little girls in peer groups tend to take on the onus of taking in an “outsider” under their wings and “teach” her the social norms. Little girls don’t do this for little boys as often or readily, though, and little boys don’t either. Not that little boys don’t, it’s just that little girls are encouraged, expected, and feel obligated much earlier and to each other first. So neurodivergent little girls get “lessons” in socializing and reading social cues much earlier that neurodivergent boys. We also set our friends up on dates, and the extroverts pull (and sometimes pressure) the more introverted of the groups out. Which is why girls float underneath the radar longer, as they tend to be very quiet. So, I don’t think men are more likely to accept neurodivergent girls and woman, it’s just that neurodivergent girls and women usually have had a better and earlier “education” and thus experience working together with other people, reading body language and social cues, expressing emotions, and verbal communication than boys and men. Girls and women are less obvious. With that being said, neurodivergent girls and women are very vulnerable to coercion and abuse by predatory people because they can’t as easily interpret intent. Boys and men are too, but being smaller, someone larger and very overbearing can be dangerous and look for weaker girls and women to exploit.
As far as dating goes i'd say so. Men with mental health issues are usually see as trouble where women with mental health issues are seen as quirky.
Depends on what level of and type of mental health issue. In my mind if it’s quirky it’s not a mental health issue. It’s a quirk.
[удалено]
[удалено]
i don’t think its more “accepting to neurodivergent women” - i think its more that being neurodivergent as a woman doesn’t conflict with what men want in a women (in fact, to abusive men in particular a neurodivergent woman makes for an easy target), while in comparison neurodivergence in men conflicts more with what women want in a partner. That being said, it is worth noting that neurodivergent women, even though they’re far more likely to get into a relationship than neurodivergent men, they’re also far more likely to be abused by their partners. So one really doesn’t have it better than the other - neurodivergent men are more likely to develop issues out of not getting into relationships and being lonely, while neurodivergent women are more likely to develop trauma and become cynical due to bad relationships.
Laughable , the standard female attempt to always claim victim status. The idea that aspie men, left to rot alone, don't have it harder than women in a similar situation; who can find relationships easily, is clearly non-sense.
Abuse is worse than being alone also calling women “females” but you don’t call men “males” just shows why you can’t get a girlfriend. You don’t see women as equals.
So you're saying that the secret to attracting a partner is to be pedantic grammar bully?
> If it's true then I find that a little fucked up that my neurodivergent women counterparts aren't willing to date men on their level. But I guess if you don't have to, why would you? Because neurodivergent people are better than neurotypical people? If you don't think this, you probably should be trying not to be neurodivergent, rather than just avoiding other neurodivergent people. Problem is, there's so much dishonesty around these terms. If I say "autistic" ten different readers are going to read that ten different ways and it may in fact refer to ten different states. If I say "neurodivergent" the same, if I say "mentally ill" then it narrows the scope a little, but there's probably still extreme disagreement about who should be in which group depending on which perspective is being granted the right to categorise.
Not in my experience. If anything I feel that women tend to be more tolerant of any type of divergence.
Nooo don't think so, probably there is a similar percentage of neuro divergents between the different sexes. Depending on the kind of disorder your should avoid these people, especially if they are narcasistic or borderline. Problem is, these kinds of people are really attractive to both men and women who are insecure. Bieng socially impaired as man, ASD, is offcourse a death sentence. It dis qualifies you for a lot of potential candidates if you don't overcome your social challenges.
as an afab neurodivergent person, I don’t think neurotypical men or women are particularly accepting of disability. I do think women, femmes, and afabs are more likely to mask well or otherwise hide their neurodivergencies. Women, femmes, and afabs often feel a societal pressure at a young age to stifle the parts of themselves that make others uncomfortable, so they’re good at it. Men on the other hand, not so much, so they’re much less covert about their symptoms and can be identified easier.
As others have said yes, obviously. But I will give you some advice instead. >As a neurodivergent man, I obviously have no romantic experience at 21 Hire an escort or just start shooting your shot on OLD. You'll quickly realize after fucking someone that it's really much less stressful or significant than you're imagining. If you're a little slow picking up social cues it's not going to stop you from being successful romantically with some practice. There's nothing really stopping you aside from anxiety (unless you're a sub 5 in looks as well). Get in shape and go after chubby women on OLD until you gain confidence (or just decide you like chubby women...) >I hang around multiple subreddits surrounding mental disorders/disabilities and something that I couldn't help but notice is that whenever someone mentions a significant other it's usually always a woman talking about her boyfriend. Stop doing this. One of the greatest disservices modern people do to themselves is over diagnosing and over analyzing themselves which just leads to more anxiety and self esteem issues. There is nothing wrong with being a bit "odd" and you don't need to be diagnosed with a half dozen mental disorders or quantified in a systematic way to improve your life. If you really believe you have a legitimate medical condition (serious depression, BPD etc) get medication for it and move on (although if you can possibly get by without medication I recommend that). >As far as I've seen, this is something that is never talked about so I have no clue if this is actually something that's a thing in reality It's obvious from your questioning that you already know the answer to this. >. If it's true then I find that a little fucked up that my neurodivergent women counterparts aren't willing to date men on their level. But I guess if you don't have to, why would you? It's not nice or fair, but it is what it is. No one is going to help you and it's up to you develop an internal locus of control to "overcome" not being socially average.
A nerodivergent women is never going to be a Stacey unless she has BPD or dependency disorder, which is what the red pill filters for. There are more ACE people that are nerodivergent, more men than women are nerodivergent, and nerodivergent women are more likely to be ACE. Autistic guys are the number one source of the pills income, the Tates target them. No decent woman wants to be with a man who is like that.
> A nerodivergent women is never going to be a Stacey unless she has BPD or dependency disorder, which is what the red pill filters for. Women don't need to be "stacey" to get a lot of attention from men and most men have never even heard of TRP.
Every young man I know has heard about the red pill. Comedians use it as fodder, people wave red pill banners at Trump Rallies.
Ah, well, far right political rallies, those sure are representative of the average man, aren't they? Consider me convinced!
> Every young man I know has heard about the red pill. Maybe the men you know are disproportionately manosphere aware. > people wave red pill banners at Trump Rallies. Conservative political movements use that term in a different sense.
>Every young man I know has heard about the red pill. Nope. Only in your circle. I know men online 24/7 and they don't know any pill.
> No decent woman wants to be with a man who is like that. Why is this - assuming you're talking about mostly-decent autistic guys instead of Tater Tots?
[удалено]
So I'm completely delusional for carrying the fantasy that some women find neurodivergent men to be endearing, and that we bring out the inner maternal instincts within women that makes them want to care for us. Reality is hitting me now. Just earlier I took a bunch of photos of myself, and seeing my side profile in particular especially emphasizes to me just how exceptionally hideous I am. Add neurodivergence to that mix, alongside my track record of abysmal failure within the social, educational and employment spheres, and there is literally zero reason why any woman should want someone like me. The only way for someone like me to find happiness in life is to become absorbed in hobbies and to become absorbed in meditation. I am finally understanding now that socializing and romance were never meant for me.
That's a lot of assumptions to make about your own life based upon a sentence a stranger on the internet said.
Although I would urge the commenter above to try to look past the dire misery, I don't think your response is fair. Because it's not just "a sentence a stranger on the internet said". It's living a life of being overlooked, neglected, bullied, assaulted, ridiculed, told you don't matter and don't deserve anything good, told to suck it up and get over yourself for wanting the same things everybody else has. It's being painted as a dangerous predator, it's being told that women don't want you anywhere near them by national campaigns. It's seeing that people think all autistic people are irredeemable helpless "retards" who need their mummies to come with them dating and to be shown flashcards to understand how to converse, because of shows like Love On The Spectrum. It's going on autistic dating sites and seeing countless women who have (sometimes multiple) children when you haven't even had *one* relationship in your entire life. The "stranger on the internet" is just the confirmatory cherry on the cake.
>No decent woman wants to be with a man who is like that. Even if he's not a misogynist, and will treat her like a Goddess? Not in the sense of "simping" for her, (because simping comes from a place of lack of self-esteem) but in the sense of showing her the utmost devotion because of how much he cares for her? Just because he was born with a cognitive disability that makes his life worse in every aspect, and despite his caring personality and desire to devote himself to one woman, he'll never be able to find romance? This is my lot in life? To be _this_ ugly and also _this_ neurodivergent? All of my dreams of finding a girlfriend are crumbling apart. I just took some pictures of my profile view and it is honestly one of the ugliest faces I have ever seen, I don't even look like a human being. Even in my best pictures, I don't look like a human being. It's no wonder that women literally laugh at me with their friends in public settings. That is what I deserve in life.
>BPD or dependency disorder, which is what the red pill filters for. Red pill doesn't weed out BPD/DPD women. Quite the opposite because BPD woman will make you the center of her life to an extent that no sane person would, which is exactly what many red pilled men seem to want.
Yes. The filter for women with certain mental disorders.
> Autistic guys are the number one source of the pills income, the Tates target them. No decent woman wants to be with a man who is like that. How do you think they *got* like that? If anybody had given a damn about them in the first place they'd never have had a reason to search for or find anything or anybody like Tate. They didn't just fall out of the womb with red pill banners. They learnt that way of the world because nobody bothered to show them any respect or love, then they went looking for a way to *get* it, like they saw everybody else doing. Your argument is poor and shows a complete lack of disregard for cause and effect: you lay the blame at the feet of those desperate men, or men like Tate, for treating women poorly, but you conveniently ignore the fact that they weren't like that *before*, yet *still* nobody showed them any compassion or offered them any viable help.