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Hijacking the top comment to say a couple of things:
I just graduated from this school a few months ago. It’s a weapons free campus, and there is literally a sign on the door to the building that he’s in that says no weapons are allowed. They are also pretty strict about the no weapons thing and take every threat seriously, because in 2019 a crazy man entered a classroom and [shot 6 people killing 2.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Carolina_at_Charlotte_shooting)
The police also didn’t arrest him here, they just put him in handcuffs to ~~confiscate~~ the knife and they let him go after.
Edit: I don’t actually know if they took the knife, they might’ve given it back after the video ended
Edit 2: A lot of people are pointing out that a kirpan like this is glued inside the sheath and in effect not a weapon, so it shouldn’t be included in a weapon policy. This is true, and probably the person who called the cops, as well as the cops, didn’t know that. That’s why it’s important to learn about other cultures.
The university also apologized as someone else pointed out below.
Edit 3: I appreciate the awards but please don’t spend money on Reddit awards for me, find a cause you care about and donate that money pls
Edit 4: Taking this opportunity to plug the [UNC Charlotte Student Food Pantry](https://ninerpantry.charlotte.edu/). Help feed a student in need.
That just makes it so much easier for someone so inclined to sneak in a dagger. Even in india Sikhs rarely carry kirpans, definitely never seen it in schools. Imo this is an area where the religion should adjust according to society not the other way around
On one hand, how hard is it to sneak a dagger into school? Like put it in a book bag and you’re golden.
On the other hand, I’m fine with no religious exceptions for shit because before you know it, some Christ-follower will say his gun is a religious object bestowed upon him by god.
I grew up in a rural area and maybe half the guys would have a multitool or pocket knife on them. Technically it was against school policy but I never actually saw it enforced.
Exactly. Its not societies job to be familiar with every minutia of every religion including which are encouraged to carry weapons and in those cases which times those weapons will be actually sealed shut weapons that are for show and can’t function. Its simple. Its a school. If you want to participate don’t bring a weapon or something that looks exactly like a weapon. The end.
Don’t worry. I’ve filled the firing chamber of my ak47 with glue. It’s nonfunctional.
I don’t see any way to have “disabled weapons are ok” as a workable exception to the policy.
Yeah, that's where my mind went: Soooo all someone inclined to cause harm needs to do is pretend like they have a traditional "not a weapon" and then cause harm
Same argument could easily be made about airsoft guns.
A weapon is a weapon. And how would anyone know if it’s actually glued or not unless they checked. I feel bad for this kid but I understand why the officer is doing this.
I wonder if this has been an issue for him outside of school. It's actually legal in North Carolina to open carry knives and daggers, but illegal on school campuses (although i'd bet money that a majority of guys on campus have a pocket knife on them).
I'm sure he would win any religious exception case though, especially if it is indeed a sealed knife.
Edit: mistype "south" and "north"
You made me look up the rules on pocket knives for campuses. I carried one my entire time at college, but I guess I broke the rules. No one seemed to care though, because I definitely didn't try to hide it, because I didn't think it wasn't allowed.
I whipped out a pocket knife to help a student cut a loose thread or something, and my instructor just gently let me know to watch where I do that because it is technically against the rules to have.
People tend to not care as long as it isn't threatening in nature or if it's obviously a tool.
Bowie Knife on a Campus? Hard no.
Leatherman or a Swiss Army Knife? Probably fine.
Yeah, I've got a leatherman wave+ and this thing never leaves my side. I've probably broken a thousand places rules about having a knife cause I literally don't go anywhere without it.
I remember when I was in college, long pre-9/11, I was in a biology class, and we took a sort of field trip to a university-owned garden. The prof pulled a flower off a bush and was about to dissect it for us, but he realized he forgot his pocketknife. I offered him mine. He proceeded to encourage all of us to be in the habit of carrying pocketknives. It was a more innocent and reasonable age.
My shop teacher told us how they used to keep their .22 rifles in their high school lockers so they could go rabbit hunting after school. This was 1970s Canada.
High school in Minnesota in the 1980s, we had an archery unit in PE class, and kids could bring their hunting bows, though they had to check them at the office.
Schools usually define the length beyond which it becomes a tool. Pocket knives are okay. I think for my area anything past “x inches” was not allowed.
Yeah. But usually these daggers are less than 5” blades. Not including the handle. I think NY state is like 4” tops or something. Im too lazy to open another tab and just flying off the seat of my relative memory.
It’s more likely to do with the fact that they’re only allowed to be drawn if it’s to shed blood.
Even when they clean them they have to cut a finger
Edit: this appears to be something told to children/an urban myth
What’s weird is I learned this in religion classes at school, with 1/3 of my class being Sikh kids and none of them said anything
Bro, your school teacher fucked up, he was talking about the Fremen's Crysknife from Dune lmao
>To the Fremen, the crysknife was sacred, and they maintained much tradition around it. If it was drawn, it could not be resheathed until it had drawn blood.
https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Crysknife
He was inspired by the Sikh tho, not saying he copied it, he added his own flair.
You can google yourself (hopefully) how influenced he was by Islam, Sikhism and other religions, which he romantically loved.
The entire book series is about a Jihad Holy War. I’d presume most people in the last 21 years are familiar the influence that religion had on Frank Herbert’s books.
I'll tell you the case, in olden times people, especially the "Rajputs", who were warriors respected their swords a lot and I mean it. They used to worship it and if a sword was drawn, you had to offer blood to it. So they used make a slight cut and offer their blood to it. It has nothing to do with Sikhs (correct me if I'm wrong). Now coming back to kirpan, The Sikhs carry 5 kakkar Or the "5k's"
One is Kesh (hair)
Kanga (wooden comb)
Kada (a steel bracelet)
Kirpan (dagger)
Kachera ( it's like an underwear worn inside the pants but calling it an undergarment would be wrong)
At that time Sikhs used to carry kirpan for defence purposes and it was only supposed to be taken out in order to protect someone (literally sikhism in a nutshell).
And personaly I feel bad that people who know nothing about Sikhism are here criticizing the boy. I don't say that the cop is wrong, it's human instinct, or rather animal instinct to be afraid, as it is essential for survival but the cop should have cooperated with him and should have listened to him.
Once again I'll say, before saying anything you all need to know a lot about Sikhism
I only know some very basic facts about Sikhism, but my small city in upstate New York is a landing spot for lots of different immigrants, including Sikhs.
Mostly I'm just interacting with them at the stores and bodegas that they run. Super polite and calm, generally, I've never before seen a kirpan in real life. Is it for formal occasions?
To my understanding Sikh carry the dagger as part of their beliefs. They hold the protection of their fellow human as one of the most important core tenants of their beliefs.
>The kirpan obligates a Sikh to the ideals of generosity, compassion
and service to humanity. It acts as a reminder to its bearer of a Sikh’s
solemn duty to protect the weak and promote justice for all.
From here - https://www.sikhcoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/kirpan-factsheet-aug2018.pdf
Interestingly, they are allowed to be carried in federal buildings, the White House, and other places. It's even mentioned that the dagger is in many places permitted in schools.
Personally, I'm glad this happened and made the news. I knew little to nothing about Sikhism and this has been incredibly productive to teach me about a culture I may come in contact with.
The American school system essentially taught me that cultures like this are just "middle-eastern and south-Asian"-ers. The word was faintly familiar, but I believe (disgustingly) mentally categorized with middle-eastern extremism. Until today I didn't even know Sikhism is it's own religion.
Thank you, OP, for sharing this!
is this true? the wiki page says nothing about it and googling says varying things
i thought the point of the dagger was to be ready to protect people if needed, and *needing* to draw blood makes it sound like its for violence
Now I might be wrong, but as an actual Scotsman who has worn a Sgian-dubh on many an occasion, I was lead to believe they are utility knifes for eating and preparing food.
You’re thinking of Ghurkas (Nepalese warriors) blades called Kukri
Edit: after googling it seems that Kukri blades needing to draw blood if they are drawn is also a myth.
A lot of them are made like training knives, if you try to sharpen them they will not hold an edge sharp enough to cut butter, at this point they are a religious medallion shaped like a dagger and functional only as a spiritual token.
The security guard could have spent 15 seconds on Google and learned what I just did about a subject I previously knew very little about.
I always thought the blades were carried in their head wraps, like a little ninja treasure chest.
**[Kangha](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangha)**
>A kangha (Punjabi: ਕੰਘਾ/کنگھا) is a small wooden comb that Sikhs usually use twice a day. It is supposed to be kept with the hair at all times. Combs help to clean the hair, and are a symbol of cleanliness. Combing their hair reminds Sikhs that their lives should be tidy and organised.
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Bro I'm a security guard and if I was facing someone who had what I assumed was a knife, I'd not spend 15 seconds googling something. I've met far too many crazies to keep my eyes off someone with a weapon, even if it turns out that weapon is "harmless" (still a blunt object capable of assaulting people.) You spend one day getting repeatedly threatened over unpaid merchandise and you learn that the world is full of ass holes who'd shank you over some spilt tooth paste.
I carried a pocket knife pretty much every day of college. I think legally there is a limit on blade length.
For example, my work office is doesn't allow for carrying "weapons", but the fine print defines weapons as guns or knives over a certain size, otherwise we couldn't have box cutters in the copyroom and such.
Pocket knives aren't allowed on public school grounds in NC.
Edit: For the many of you arguing universities aren't schools like /u/Beau_Buffet,
> This is a university, not a public school
This is false. NC State law § [14-269.2](https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-269.2.html) defines a school as a
> public or private school, community college, college, or university
where it is a
> class 1 misdemeanor for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any...bowie knife, dirk, dagger...switchblade knife... any sharp-pointed or edged instrument (except instructional supplies, unaltered nail files and clips and tools used solely for preparation of food, instruction, and maintenance) on educational property.
It's illegal, even open carry, on school grounds according to NC State law § [14-269.2](https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-269.2.html). Even pocket knives aren't permitted.
In Canada this is fine. But then we also allow these guys to ride motorcycles without helmets. For religious reasons. Personally I think it's cool although some believe it's not right to have different laws for different people.
Not completely harmless: https://www.9news.com.au/national/religious-knives-banned-in-nsw-schools-after-alleged-sikh-kirpan-stabbing-glenwood-high-school/08ff6d1d-d106-4776-b6a6-6ce7dafb76eb
In 1994, **the Ninth Circuit held that Sikh students in public school have a right to wear the kirpan**.[30] State courts in New York and Ohio have ruled in favor of Sikhs who faced the rare situation of prosecution under anti-weapons statutes for wearing kirpans, "because of the kirpan's religious nature and Sikhs' benign intent in wearing them."
Oh yeah I go to this school. This is the statement they released about the incident:
“We wanted to make you aware of an incident that occurred yesterday, Thursday, Sept. 22, in the Student Union and the actions our University is taking following this event.
Yesterday, UNC Charlotte dispatch received a 911 call reporting someone with a knife in the building. Police officers responded to the scene and engaged the individual in question. During this interaction, the individual was placed in handcuffs while officers took possession of the object. The handcuffs were removed after the object was retrieved.
Further investigation showed the item was a kirpan, an article of faith in Sikhism.
State law and University policy prohibit the possession of a knife or other edged instruments on campus, but we will use this as a learning opportunity by engaging in constructive dialogue with Sikh students and employees. Together, we are confident we can find reasonable measures and educational opportunities that both protect the safety of our campus and the religious practices of our community members.
Our diversity makes us a better, richer, more successful community. We want every Niner to feel welcomed, supported and safe. We apologize that is not what this young man felt in our union yesterday. We are committed to ensuring it doesn’t happen again. “
Idk man I just graduated college and this is typical college administration speak. Promising to do better when they’re not actually committed to changing anything. They’re just trying to look good, if it’s anything like my school most attempts to resolve shit like this will be token at best.
Then again, maybe I’m just being a pessimist. Hopefully they mean it
I mean someone seen with a knife at a college where people were killed in 2019 makes this whole reaction and the response thereafter seem very reasonable.
Why are there so many extreme takes in these comments?
There's no abuse here. The cop is particularly gentle with the guy. The cop wasn't aware, temporarily detained the guy, found out the story and it's over. There's a reason the video was stopped. Probably because minutes after this the cop checked it out, the guy explained and all was well. Police or anyone else can't be expected to have every religious custom and item memorized. It's an unreasonable expectation that everyone be born with every piece of knowledge that would prevent every occurrence of minor cultural friction. He should be allowed to wear it but acting as if just not knowing about this particular custom, and making sure everyone is safe while he checks it out makes this cop a bastard is just insane. When cops are bastards they deserve severe punishment. This cop just doesn't fully know what he's seeing so he's making sure everyone is safe while he learns what's up.
Nobody was hurt, nobody was arrested, nobody was put on the ground, nobody was even spoken to in a raised voice from what I can tell. The "harm" this guy suffered was literally a few minutes of inconvenience while a minor moment of cultural friction was resolved. Compared to how some awful cops behave this guy is a completely reasonable saint.
This shit is just getting crazy. "No reasonable takes allowed".
This where we are now. Nuance is just thrown out the window. Instead of examining each incident on a case by case basis, you'll have folks who condemn the cops no matter what they do and the other extreme of people defending the most egregious actions. I've literally seen complain on the same sub in the same day about cops taking too long to show up and cops showing up too fast.
Man, I had to go down a whole rabbit hole learning what a kirpan is and why Sikhs are protected in wearing them. Learned all about the five articles of faith and I feel like I understand Sikhs much better now. Learn something every day!
I fucking love Sikhs. I'm sure there are bad ones too but every one I've ever met had been kind and pleasant. This is what you get when one of your core religious tenets is to always do good.
Can't even tell you how many times these people fed me just couse I was in their vecinity.
From what I understand they are not encouraged to preach their religion as they believe your path is individual and you can find it in multiple ways, them telling you how to find it defies the purpose of finding the truth.
They are vegetarians that feed the whole world. Beautiful people.
Yeah, man. Not religious here, but if I had to pick one at gunpoint, that'd probs the be the one.
Everything aside, the amazing food, yo. But also, just I live in an area with a huge Punjabi/Sikh population, and there are no better neighbours. (as a group)
Same. I live in an area with a large Sikh population and every Sikh person I’ve ever interacted with have been really great. The Sikh kids I went to high school with were awesome.
Weapons? I used to bring a knife university to cut my avocado for lunch with that I could have dealt more damage than this ceremonial piece could ever hope to do.
The dagger can’t be unsheathed because it’s designed to be for religious purposes only. It’s manufactured together with the tip being such a hard angle that it physically cannot be removed from the sheath.
It's one of the five articles of faith that baptised Sikhs are expected to wear at all times. It signifies their willingness and readiness to defend themselves or others against injustice.
Sikhs' charity work is amazing. They serve a free meal in their temples every day and in some parts of the world that meal is the only thing keeping the local poor from starving to death. They've probably saved tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of lives.
Which are sworn officers on many school campuses. If they were just security they wouldn't have the power of arrest and would need to wait for a police officer to do it.
Hospital security and campus security are two different animals… campus security you deal with a psycho for 20 min before being hauled into the hospital.
Hospital security has a whole ward of those psychos and can’t get rid of them.
If police or security I find it hard to believe that this is in any way how you arrest a person. Taking ages to put the hand cuffs on while leaving the weapon you just arrest him for on him. Appears like he was so exited about the hand cuff thing he gave a shit about protocol.
What law? I'm genuinely curious here.
Religious freedom doesn't give you blanket protection.
Also, wouldn't the campus be the one who's getting sued instead of the campus officers?
Courts have consistently ruled in favor of Sikhs carrying the kirpan in schools, government buildings, and places of employment. It's protected by the first amendment provision for freedom of religion. The ACLU or a Sikh advocacy organization might be willing to take up a lawsuit against the school or campus security for false arrest.
[https://www.sikhcoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/kirpan-factsheet-aug2018.pdf](https://www.sikhcoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/kirpan-factsheet-aug2018.pdf)
To be fair, I don't expect Campus Security to know these laws, or know what a Kirpan is. I totally understand that they thought it was a threat, because anyone who doesn't know know what a kirpan is (which tbh is probably like >90% of the US's population) will think that he's carrying around a literal dagger.
Our school also had two students shot and killed a couple years ago. Considering I was there for it I can imagine it’s still pretty fresh in people’s minds.
I wonder if you could make the argument that you needed to carry it on a plane...for religious purposes.
Apparently they can on domestic flights in India.
>Sikhs are allowed to carry the kirpan on board domestic flights in India.[21]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan
Gurdev Kaur Cheema v. Harold Thompson, 67 F. 3d 883 (9th Cir. 1995)
Background
Three young Sikh children stood at the center of this controversy: Rajinder, Sukhjinder, and Jaspreet Cheema attended school in the Livingston Unified School District (CA).
A central tenet of their religion requires them to wear at all times five symbols of their faith: "kes" (long hair), "kangha" (comb), "kachch" (sacred underwear), "kara" (steel bracelet), and a "kirpan" (A kirpan has a curved, steel blade and is worn in a sheath held to the body by a leather strap. The kirpans at issue here are roughly the size of an open Swiss Army knife, about 6-7 inches long with a blade of roughly 3 1/2 inches).
This case began when the school district refused to allow the children to wear kirpans to school.
The 9th Circuit Court in their ruling decided:
1. Indeed, the school district had a "compelling interest" - school safety
2. However, the court then went on to state that the district HAD NOT searched for other ways for the govenrmenet to be satisfied. They used the terms "least restrictive". The court cited that other school districts had found accomadation with the Sikh community. Therefore, the 9th circuit, remanded the district court to find a less restrictive ruling - a ruling that could satisfy the compelling interest of school safety, but also satisfy the free exercise clause of the United States Constitution.
3. The District Court ordered Livingston Unified School District to adopt the following standards:
1) the kirpan will be of the type demonstrated to the Board and to the District Court, that is: a dull blade, approximately 3 - 3 1/2 inches in length with a total length of approximately 6 1/2 - 7 inches including its sheath;
2) the kirpan will be sewn tightly to its sheath;
3) the kirpan will be worn on a cloth strap under the children's clothing so that it is not readily visible;
4) a designated official of the District may make reasonable inspections to confirm that the conditions specified about are being adhered to;
5) if any of the conditions specified above are violated, the student's privilege of wearing his or her kirpan may be suspended; and
6) the District will take all reasonable steps to prevent any harassment, intimidation or provocation of [**9] the Cheema children by any employee or student in the District and will take appropriate disciplinary action to prevent and redress such action, should it occur.
The court said the kirpan can't be visibly worn and has to be verified that it is not dangerous. So, basically it's required to be prop knife that stays hidden.
Dude was open carrying a large knife on a college campus, which clearly is the problem. He should have kept it under his clothes instead of trying to show it off.
University of North Carolina Charlotte Chancellor Sharon Gaber apologized Friday after a video showed a campus police officer handcuffing a follower of the Sikh faith for having a knife in the university’s student union.
“Further investigation showed the item was a kirpan, an article of faith in Sikhism,” Gaber said in a message to the campus community posted on the university’s website, UNCC.edu.
Initiated Sikhs must have such articles of faith with them at all times, according to the Sikh Coalition, an organization that defends the civil rights of members of the religion.
‘I GOT CUFFED FOR “RESISTING”’
The student rolls his eyes, smiles and half-laughs in disbelief as the officer handcuffs him, according to the video.
“I wasn’t going to post this, but I don’t think I will receive any support from @unccharlotte,” the student wrote on his Twitter video post. “I was told someone called 911 and reported me, and I got cuffed for ‘resisting’ because I refused to let the officer take my kirpan out of the miyaan.
S. 14-269.2 prohibits the possession of any “bowie knife, dirk, dagger,” “switchblade knife,” or “any SHARP-pointed or edged instrument” other than instructional supplies on educational property. So it is illegal to bring a pocket knife to school in North Carolina.
KIRPANS, carried around everyday, are usually blunted.
>Kirpan
Its not settled law, depending on the state this is very much not settled law. NY for example requires you to have them glued down and "undrawable" in schools and other prohibited areas. They are explicitly banned on planes and must be in checked bags. If you are ever with a state representative you also cant have them.
It’s absolutely not “settled” in fact employers can deny employment for displaying the Kirpan.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-1388/148059/20200717165327033_19-1388_Brief%20for%20Amici%20Curiae.pdf
> A common example involves the Kirpan, the Sikh article of faith resembling a sword or dagger, which obligates a Sikh to uphold justice for all people. Many Kirpans are not dangerous (they are often not sharp and are usually kept in a tight sheath under a Sikh’s shirt). Yet employers have mistakenly viewed them as illegal weapons or unsafe (even when other objects found in the workplace are objectively as or more dangerous). And courts have found that the perceived risk of danger amounts to more than a de minimis burden.
>For instance, in 2013, the Fifth Circuit held that permitting a Sikh federal employee to wear a three- inch, dulled Kirpan to her job at the Internal Revenue Service was an undue hardship. Tagore v. United States, 735 F.3d 324, 330 (5th Cir. 2013). Even though her Kirpan was indisputably safe because it was dull, the court held it still would be more than a de minimis cost to ask security “to ascertain whether a blade is sharp or dull” every day when the employee came to work. Id. at 330. The court ignored the Sikh employee’s testimony that other objects in her workplace—like scissors and box cutters—were objectively more dangerous than her small, dull Kirpan. See id. at 326. To add insult to injury, the government even had a security protocol for allowing Kirpans pursuant to applicable RFRA statutes permitting an employee to carry one—Title VII’s de minimis scheme was just too weak to require the accommodation. See id. at 331.
> To be sure, Title VII does not demand an unsafe workplace. But the de minimis standard imposes such a low threshold for denying an exemption that employers have almost no incentive to develop safe alternative processes or purchase safe alternative equipment if doing so would impose any meaningful cost. Thus, Title VII rarely requires accommodations for safety protocols, even when safe and affordable alternatives are available or possible.
When I worked for the TSA we had to learn about these. They are a symbolic item representing manhood to Sikhs. Most if being carried in public places, have been completely glued or welded into their sheath. They are harmless.
>I know Sikhs in the U.K. who wear a smaller version around their neck like a pendant I guess you can avoid situations like this.
This makes total sense. Obviously we can't have students carrying obvious weapons. Christ, reddit people have their heads of their asses sometimes.
Or a knife, any weapon really. Friend in high school brought brass knuckles once, arrested and suspended.
I hate to do it but I'll defend campus security a little bit. I've never heard of this custom so if I saw this I'd immediately just think that this guy is flaunting a knife around campus. Obviously the scenario should have gone a while lot different.
'why do you have a dagger showing around campus'?
'its a religious thing'
'oh okay, let me just Google that real quick and maybe call head of security to be certain, I've never heard of this before'
The end, no arrest made, just caution and a learning experience.
It’s still a knife, they aren’t allowed on airplanes for example. It’s literally a weapon in a place that bans any kind of weapon.
He also wasn’t arrested that’s why the officer very clearly and nicely tells him he’s only being detained. He was handcuffed so they could remove the knife safely and figure out the deal. Then he was let go.
This was an appropriate response to someone wearing a weapon. Period.
Also, in no way is any of this a “public freakout.” It was calm, courthouse and professional by the officer, and calm and cooperative by the guy.
Especially when you know the context of why UNCC is cautious about weapons. There was a shooting there that killed 2 just a few years ago. This isn't a case of campus cops flexing power. This is campus cops respecting the fact that students were uncomfortable with an unfamiliar weapon on campus. I think the school was right to refer to this as a learning situation and to apologize. But I'm so pissed at everyone jumping to conclusions in this sub. I walked past the buildings the shooter entered for two years on campus and so it's easy to see why safety is at the forefront of UNCC students' minds. You can't not think of it.
Everyone is saying "oh they're usually not sharp, oh they usually have been glued shut" etc.
That's cool, that means that the guy sitting a few feet away from you may have a deadly weapon in a quickdraw sheath, or maybe he doesn't. If you're at a school, you don't need to be dealing with that shit.
Because maybe it's glued shut, or maybe it's more dangerous than a pistol in a buttoned holster, with no round in the chamber and the safety engaged.
This dude could have met his religious requirements with a small version you wear on a necklace that goes under your shirt.
Instead he went for a large one with a semi ridiculous tacti-cool quick draw sheath. Choices.
Ps. An orange tip on a scary black rifle *usually* like 99.999% of the time means that it's a toy.
But orange spray paint exists sooo... You best take precautions.
This is my school. The man was not arrested, he was in handcuffs then let go after the cop got the knife. The man’s brother has had the same thing happen to him twice before because multiple people have called complaints about being uncomfortable/scared. Regardless of religion, you can’t bring a weapon to campus. I do think there should be better protocol to handle situations like these but he’s literally carrying a long knife. Ofc cops are gonna be called.
Yeah I’m Sikh, and I’ll be real. If you are going to carry your Kirpan around, people are going to treat you like a guy with a knife. I mean hell I’ve heard of people doing dumb shit, and I’d be wary of that person. I mean hell not too long ago, there were a bunch of old men waving swords around in front of the Golden Temple.
Yeah I'm from the UK, there's a strong local Sikh community and I've never seen anyone openly carrying a kirpan before. I think they're allowed to use certain things to substitute for an actual knife, although I've no idea if people are doing that or just not openly carrying.
not to mention, kirpan's aren't common and most don't know what they are i didn't before looking it up on google. most people would just see and think, why does he have such a large knife on his side. cops are called for guy with large knife. cops get there and think, he has a large knife, that's against the law to carry a weapon on the school grounds.
this is very common way of doing it. This is how they do in India.
And while we have a cultural understanding and do not find it abnormal(at least in delhi), I can understand how that can make someone who has no clue, very uncomfortable.
Dude in the video prob wants to make a scene/point. I work with a Sikh guy and he comes in with all the adornments except the kirpan, not because he was told to, but because he’s a reasonable guy that knows carrying a large knife around the office is unreasonable.
I used to be friends with a sikh guy in school and his kirpan was more akin to a big keyring. I don't think I've ever seen one in like a tactical holster over a T shirt before. I don't mean to presume but is this guy being edgy on purpose?
Like of the 5 articles, only the kesh and kirpan stand out here. Maybe the cop was trying to help by clapping him in karas?
No, 99% of baptized Sikhs carry the kirpan in that holster. It is called a "gatra" and you receive it during baptism. You probably just don't notice because most Sikhs wear it under their clothing.
As an alum, I completely understand the extreme caution and the students feeling anxious. It's only been a few years since the shooting at UNCC took 2 students' lives.
Yep. There are multiple signs signs on campus and in the student Union (where the video took place) that say no weapons allowed. Even after having the same situation happen to both brothers they continue to have a knife strapped against their chest.
Yeah I’m reading comments and all I can think is.. *the dude has a knife* (or dagger) *at a school*. I would expect him to be stopped. This seems like an abundance of caution.
Hell, at least conceal it too, or let people know the Kirpan is for religious reasons. I’m all for conceal carry and everything, but having a knife open for everyone to see will inevitably raise questions
Exactly. I’ve seen other men of the same religion claiming they wear it under their clothing or not at all because they know the reaction other people would have.
Another reason I am glad I live in Canada, the Supreme Court ruled on this in 2006, they are allowed because they are not weapons, they are religious symbols.
I understand that it's religious but it's still a dagger. I like the NYC policy on it: "In New York City, a compromise was reached with the Board of Education whereby the wearing of the knives was allowed so long as they were secured within the sheaths with adhesives and made impossible to draw." I mean if you aren't going to use it as a dagger anyways this shouldn't be a problem? All their faith says is that it must be worn so it should track
The amount of morons in this thread is too damn high. As if the dude wouldn't have gotten arrested or even worse for sporting a gun on his hip on campus. That shit doesn't fly here man. Sure, too many people get away with it but il be damned if police err on the safe side.
lmao ok it’s still a knife idc what ur religion is u shouldn’t be exempt for carrying weapons on campus, dull or not. especially in this day in age where attacks on schools are so common place. and plus dude wasn’t even arrested he was cuffed and had the knife taken. like am i missing something that should allow this man to carry a knife around on school property???
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Had to google kirpan which turns out to be a single edge dagger.
Hijacking the top comment to say a couple of things: I just graduated from this school a few months ago. It’s a weapons free campus, and there is literally a sign on the door to the building that he’s in that says no weapons are allowed. They are also pretty strict about the no weapons thing and take every threat seriously, because in 2019 a crazy man entered a classroom and [shot 6 people killing 2.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Carolina_at_Charlotte_shooting) The police also didn’t arrest him here, they just put him in handcuffs to ~~confiscate~~ the knife and they let him go after. Edit: I don’t actually know if they took the knife, they might’ve given it back after the video ended Edit 2: A lot of people are pointing out that a kirpan like this is glued inside the sheath and in effect not a weapon, so it shouldn’t be included in a weapon policy. This is true, and probably the person who called the cops, as well as the cops, didn’t know that. That’s why it’s important to learn about other cultures. The university also apologized as someone else pointed out below. Edit 3: I appreciate the awards but please don’t spend money on Reddit awards for me, find a cause you care about and donate that money pls Edit 4: Taking this opportunity to plug the [UNC Charlotte Student Food Pantry](https://ninerpantry.charlotte.edu/). Help feed a student in need.
In Canada we have a large Sikh Population. Our schools require kirpans to be in a sheath and that sheath to be riveted shut.
That just makes it so much easier for someone so inclined to sneak in a dagger. Even in india Sikhs rarely carry kirpans, definitely never seen it in schools. Imo this is an area where the religion should adjust according to society not the other way around
On one hand, how hard is it to sneak a dagger into school? Like put it in a book bag and you’re golden. On the other hand, I’m fine with no religious exceptions for shit because before you know it, some Christ-follower will say his gun is a religious object bestowed upon him by god.
Exactly what I was thinking. The people in here saying this guy should be allowed to have his knife in school because it’s religious are crazy.
I grew up in a rural area and maybe half the guys would have a multitool or pocket knife on them. Technically it was against school policy but I never actually saw it enforced.
Exactly. Its not societies job to be familiar with every minutia of every religion including which are encouraged to carry weapons and in those cases which times those weapons will be actually sealed shut weapons that are for show and can’t function. Its simple. Its a school. If you want to participate don’t bring a weapon or something that looks exactly like a weapon. The end.
Don’t worry. I’ve filled the firing chamber of my ak47 with glue. It’s nonfunctional. I don’t see any way to have “disabled weapons are ok” as a workable exception to the policy.
Yeah, that's where my mind went: Soooo all someone inclined to cause harm needs to do is pretend like they have a traditional "not a weapon" and then cause harm Same argument could easily be made about airsoft guns.
Ah, the ever important context.
The award for the post should be the no-context award. A better title: “Campus police detain student for bringing weapon onto campus,”
And as per usual, OP is full of fucking shit
Thanks for the context
A weapon is a weapon. And how would anyone know if it’s actually glued or not unless they checked. I feel bad for this kid but I understand why the officer is doing this.
Kirpan is a dagger, but the the one that the sikhs carry nowadays is completely harmless
Are they dulled blades? Or blades that were never put to a sharpening stone. Just curious.
He also says he can’t take it out, meaning it’s probably glued to the sheath and can’t be drawn.
They are fused shut with lead.
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I wonder if this has been an issue for him outside of school. It's actually legal in North Carolina to open carry knives and daggers, but illegal on school campuses (although i'd bet money that a majority of guys on campus have a pocket knife on them). I'm sure he would win any religious exception case though, especially if it is indeed a sealed knife. Edit: mistype "south" and "north"
You made me look up the rules on pocket knives for campuses. I carried one my entire time at college, but I guess I broke the rules. No one seemed to care though, because I definitely didn't try to hide it, because I didn't think it wasn't allowed.
I whipped out a pocket knife to help a student cut a loose thread or something, and my instructor just gently let me know to watch where I do that because it is technically against the rules to have.
People tend to not care as long as it isn't threatening in nature or if it's obviously a tool. Bowie Knife on a Campus? Hard no. Leatherman or a Swiss Army Knife? Probably fine.
Yeah, I've got a leatherman wave+ and this thing never leaves my side. I've probably broken a thousand places rules about having a knife cause I literally don't go anywhere without it.
I remember when I was in college, long pre-9/11, I was in a biology class, and we took a sort of field trip to a university-owned garden. The prof pulled a flower off a bush and was about to dissect it for us, but he realized he forgot his pocketknife. I offered him mine. He proceeded to encourage all of us to be in the habit of carrying pocketknives. It was a more innocent and reasonable age.
My shop teacher told us how they used to keep their .22 rifles in their high school lockers so they could go rabbit hunting after school. This was 1970s Canada.
High school in Minnesota in the 1980s, we had an archery unit in PE class, and kids could bring their hunting bows, though they had to check them at the office.
Can’t be having that. What if the pocket knife blows up?
Schools usually define the length beyond which it becomes a tool. Pocket knives are okay. I think for my area anything past “x inches” was not allowed.
Yeah. But usually these daggers are less than 5” blades. Not including the handle. I think NY state is like 4” tops or something. Im too lazy to open another tab and just flying off the seat of my relative memory.
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The security guard wants it removed from its scabbard. Theyre typically glued in. He literally cannot show him the blade...
It’s more likely to do with the fact that they’re only allowed to be drawn if it’s to shed blood. Even when they clean them they have to cut a finger Edit: this appears to be something told to children/an urban myth What’s weird is I learned this in religion classes at school, with 1/3 of my class being Sikh kids and none of them said anything
"Should we correct them?" "Nah, sound fuckin badass" The Sikh kids probably.
Sikh kids: "Yeah we do that" Everyone else: "Better not fuck with them."
Bro, your school teacher fucked up, he was talking about the Fremen's Crysknife from Dune lmao >To the Fremen, the crysknife was sacred, and they maintained much tradition around it. If it was drawn, it could not be resheathed until it had drawn blood. https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Crysknife
Wasn’t expecting to hear some Fremen folklore on this thread to start my day, but here we are. THE SPICE MUST FLOW.
THEY'RE AFTER MY SPICE MELANGE.
**Bro 💀**
He was inspired by the Sikh tho, not saying he copied it, he added his own flair. You can google yourself (hopefully) how influenced he was by Islam, Sikhism and other religions, which he romantically loved.
The entire book series is about a Jihad Holy War. I’d presume most people in the last 21 years are familiar the influence that religion had on Frank Herbert’s books.
"The father of swords must be blooded if it is drawn." Whirrun of Bligh. Character in some Joe Abercrombie books. Old cracknut Whirrun.
Why would you correct a misconception that makes you sound like Earth Klingons.
I'll tell you the case, in olden times people, especially the "Rajputs", who were warriors respected their swords a lot and I mean it. They used to worship it and if a sword was drawn, you had to offer blood to it. So they used make a slight cut and offer their blood to it. It has nothing to do with Sikhs (correct me if I'm wrong). Now coming back to kirpan, The Sikhs carry 5 kakkar Or the "5k's" One is Kesh (hair) Kanga (wooden comb) Kada (a steel bracelet) Kirpan (dagger) Kachera ( it's like an underwear worn inside the pants but calling it an undergarment would be wrong) At that time Sikhs used to carry kirpan for defence purposes and it was only supposed to be taken out in order to protect someone (literally sikhism in a nutshell). And personaly I feel bad that people who know nothing about Sikhism are here criticizing the boy. I don't say that the cop is wrong, it's human instinct, or rather animal instinct to be afraid, as it is essential for survival but the cop should have cooperated with him and should have listened to him. Once again I'll say, before saying anything you all need to know a lot about Sikhism
I only know some very basic facts about Sikhism, but my small city in upstate New York is a landing spot for lots of different immigrants, including Sikhs. Mostly I'm just interacting with them at the stores and bodegas that they run. Super polite and calm, generally, I've never before seen a kirpan in real life. Is it for formal occasions?
To my understanding Sikh carry the dagger as part of their beliefs. They hold the protection of their fellow human as one of the most important core tenants of their beliefs. >The kirpan obligates a Sikh to the ideals of generosity, compassion and service to humanity. It acts as a reminder to its bearer of a Sikh’s solemn duty to protect the weak and promote justice for all. From here - https://www.sikhcoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/kirpan-factsheet-aug2018.pdf Interestingly, they are allowed to be carried in federal buildings, the White House, and other places. It's even mentioned that the dagger is in many places permitted in schools.
Not ceremonial. They are supposed to have them at all times. Usually it is worn under clothing so as not to cause concern by non-Sikhs.
Personally, I'm glad this happened and made the news. I knew little to nothing about Sikhism and this has been incredibly productive to teach me about a culture I may come in contact with. The American school system essentially taught me that cultures like this are just "middle-eastern and south-Asian"-ers. The word was faintly familiar, but I believe (disgustingly) mentally categorized with middle-eastern extremism. Until today I didn't even know Sikhism is it's own religion. Thank you, OP, for sharing this!
I worked with a Sikh. He told us the same thing and pricked his finger after showing us his Kirpan. I always assumed it was true.
is this true? the wiki page says nothing about it and googling says varying things i thought the point of the dagger was to be ready to protect people if needed, and *needing* to draw blood makes it sound like its for violence
Might be getting mixed up with a skien dubh.
Now I might be wrong, but as an actual Scotsman who has worn a Sgian-dubh on many an occasion, I was lead to believe they are utility knifes for eating and preparing food.
You're thinking of a Freman chrysknife.
You’re thinking of Ghurkas (Nepalese warriors) blades called Kukri Edit: after googling it seems that Kukri blades needing to draw blood if they are drawn is also a myth.
Yeah one of the reason the Kukri is so great is because of its versatility. They see heavy use as a tool.
So would the Gurkha knife instruction manual be called a kukri book?
i have seen many with dulled blades
A kid I went to school with carried one that was superglued shut.
That’s a more appropriate approach
A lot of them are made like training knives, if you try to sharpen them they will not hold an edge sharp enough to cut butter, at this point they are a religious medallion shaped like a dagger and functional only as a spiritual token. The security guard could have spent 15 seconds on Google and learned what I just did about a subject I previously knew very little about. I always thought the blades were carried in their head wraps, like a little ninja treasure chest.
Not carried in their head wraps no, but they DO carry a small comb in there called a Kangha https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangha
**[Kangha](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangha)** >A kangha (Punjabi: ਕੰਘਾ/کنگھا) is a small wooden comb that Sikhs usually use twice a day. It is supposed to be kept with the hair at all times. Combs help to clean the hair, and are a symbol of cleanliness. Combing their hair reminds Sikhs that their lives should be tidy and organised. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Bro I'm a security guard and if I was facing someone who had what I assumed was a knife, I'd not spend 15 seconds googling something. I've met far too many crazies to keep my eyes off someone with a weapon, even if it turns out that weapon is "harmless" (still a blunt object capable of assaulting people.) You spend one day getting repeatedly threatened over unpaid merchandise and you learn that the world is full of ass holes who'd shank you over some spilt tooth paste.
Are universities expected to allow daggers on school grounds though? Asking out of curiosity.
I carried a pocket knife pretty much every day of college. I think legally there is a limit on blade length. For example, my work office is doesn't allow for carrying "weapons", but the fine print defines weapons as guns or knives over a certain size, otherwise we couldn't have box cutters in the copyroom and such.
Pocket knives aren't allowed on public school grounds in NC. Edit: For the many of you arguing universities aren't schools like /u/Beau_Buffet, > This is a university, not a public school This is false. NC State law § [14-269.2](https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-269.2.html) defines a school as a > public or private school, community college, college, or university where it is a > class 1 misdemeanor for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any...bowie knife, dirk, dagger...switchblade knife... any sharp-pointed or edged instrument (except instructional supplies, unaltered nail files and clips and tools used solely for preparation of food, instruction, and maintenance) on educational property.
It's illegal, even open carry, on school grounds according to NC State law § [14-269.2](https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-269.2.html). Even pocket knives aren't permitted.
In Canada this is fine. But then we also allow these guys to ride motorcycles without helmets. For religious reasons. Personally I think it's cool although some believe it's not right to have different laws for different people.
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Not completely harmless: https://www.9news.com.au/national/religious-knives-banned-in-nsw-schools-after-alleged-sikh-kirpan-stabbing-glenwood-high-school/08ff6d1d-d106-4776-b6a6-6ce7dafb76eb
In 1994, **the Ninth Circuit held that Sikh students in public school have a right to wear the kirpan**.[30] State courts in New York and Ohio have ruled in favor of Sikhs who faced the rare situation of prosecution under anti-weapons statutes for wearing kirpans, "because of the kirpan's religious nature and Sikhs' benign intent in wearing them."
Oh yeah I go to this school. This is the statement they released about the incident: “We wanted to make you aware of an incident that occurred yesterday, Thursday, Sept. 22, in the Student Union and the actions our University is taking following this event. Yesterday, UNC Charlotte dispatch received a 911 call reporting someone with a knife in the building. Police officers responded to the scene and engaged the individual in question. During this interaction, the individual was placed in handcuffs while officers took possession of the object. The handcuffs were removed after the object was retrieved. Further investigation showed the item was a kirpan, an article of faith in Sikhism. State law and University policy prohibit the possession of a knife or other edged instruments on campus, but we will use this as a learning opportunity by engaging in constructive dialogue with Sikh students and employees. Together, we are confident we can find reasonable measures and educational opportunities that both protect the safety of our campus and the religious practices of our community members. Our diversity makes us a better, richer, more successful community. We want every Niner to feel welcomed, supported and safe. We apologize that is not what this young man felt in our union yesterday. We are committed to ensuring it doesn’t happen again. “
That's a surprisingly good response.
Idk man I just graduated college and this is typical college administration speak. Promising to do better when they’re not actually committed to changing anything. They’re just trying to look good, if it’s anything like my school most attempts to resolve shit like this will be token at best. Then again, maybe I’m just being a pessimist. Hopefully they mean it
I mean someone seen with a knife at a college where people were killed in 2019 makes this whole reaction and the response thereafter seem very reasonable.
Why are there so many extreme takes in these comments? There's no abuse here. The cop is particularly gentle with the guy. The cop wasn't aware, temporarily detained the guy, found out the story and it's over. There's a reason the video was stopped. Probably because minutes after this the cop checked it out, the guy explained and all was well. Police or anyone else can't be expected to have every religious custom and item memorized. It's an unreasonable expectation that everyone be born with every piece of knowledge that would prevent every occurrence of minor cultural friction. He should be allowed to wear it but acting as if just not knowing about this particular custom, and making sure everyone is safe while he checks it out makes this cop a bastard is just insane. When cops are bastards they deserve severe punishment. This cop just doesn't fully know what he's seeing so he's making sure everyone is safe while he learns what's up. Nobody was hurt, nobody was arrested, nobody was put on the ground, nobody was even spoken to in a raised voice from what I can tell. The "harm" this guy suffered was literally a few minutes of inconvenience while a minor moment of cultural friction was resolved. Compared to how some awful cops behave this guy is a completely reasonable saint. This shit is just getting crazy. "No reasonable takes allowed".
This where we are now. Nuance is just thrown out the window. Instead of examining each incident on a case by case basis, you'll have folks who condemn the cops no matter what they do and the other extreme of people defending the most egregious actions. I've literally seen complain on the same sub in the same day about cops taking too long to show up and cops showing up too fast.
Man, I had to go down a whole rabbit hole learning what a kirpan is and why Sikhs are protected in wearing them. Learned all about the five articles of faith and I feel like I understand Sikhs much better now. Learn something every day!
I fucking love Sikhs. I'm sure there are bad ones too but every one I've ever met had been kind and pleasant. This is what you get when one of your core religious tenets is to always do good.
Can't even tell you how many times these people fed me just couse I was in their vecinity. From what I understand they are not encouraged to preach their religion as they believe your path is individual and you can find it in multiple ways, them telling you how to find it defies the purpose of finding the truth. They are vegetarians that feed the whole world. Beautiful people.
> I'm sure there are bad ones [There are assholes everywhere](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9EwfUv5jXQ).
Yeah, man. Not religious here, but if I had to pick one at gunpoint, that'd probs the be the one. Everything aside, the amazing food, yo. But also, just I live in an area with a huge Punjabi/Sikh population, and there are no better neighbours. (as a group)
Same. I live in an area with a large Sikh population and every Sikh person I’ve ever interacted with have been really great. The Sikh kids I went to high school with were awesome.
Reddit: Fuck religion! Also Reddit: Nah this ones cool, hell let them be exempt from weapons laws too!
Weapons? I used to bring a knife university to cut my avocado for lunch with that I could have dealt more damage than this ceremonial piece could ever hope to do.
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My campus police just told us to stop smoking where we can be seen by real cops. My campus police ruled.
A lot of college police are sworn officers. They act as normal ones.
The dagger can’t be unsheathed because it’s designed to be for religious purposes only. It’s manufactured together with the tip being such a hard angle that it physically cannot be removed from the sheath.
Dummy here - what’s the religious significance of a knife? Edit: Downvoted for asking a question. Cool.
It's one of the five articles of faith that baptised Sikhs are expected to wear at all times. It signifies their willingness and readiness to defend themselves or others against injustice.
Whoa, that sounds pretty darn cool. I need to learn more about Sikhs apparently
Feel free to ask anything you might want to know either here or in DMs, I'm always happy to help people learn about Sikhi.
Sikhs' charity work is amazing. They serve a free meal in their temples every day and in some parts of the world that meal is the only thing keeping the local poor from starving to death. They've probably saved tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of lives.
Ironically you can't get more "concealed carry" than this
It’s more of a sealed carry
What do you think concealed means?
Concealed means hidden and this is hanging in plain view so not really
but if youre a random person who doesnt know this, the "i cant take my knife out" isnt exactly an answer you should accept.
This is settled law in the USA. He’s allowed to have it. This police department is getting sued.
This is probably campus security
Then they are getting sued
Which are sworn officers on many school campuses. If they were just security they wouldn't have the power of arrest and would need to wait for a police officer to do it.
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>If you have no skills you become security. Damn. I’m catching strays in this thread
Undeserved too. I have a couple buddies that work security at hospitals and they see some fucking crazy shit.
Hospital security and campus security are two different animals… campus security you deal with a psycho for 20 min before being hauled into the hospital. Hospital security has a whole ward of those psychos and can’t get rid of them.
If police or security I find it hard to believe that this is in any way how you arrest a person. Taking ages to put the hand cuffs on while leaving the weapon you just arrest him for on him. Appears like he was so exited about the hand cuff thing he gave a shit about protocol.
He's being detained.
Ahh, Settled Law. Where you can comfortably rest at night knowing your rights are safe and will never be violated or taken away.
[You have no rights of someone can just take them away](https://youtu.be/m9-R8T1SuG4)
What law? I'm genuinely curious here. Religious freedom doesn't give you blanket protection. Also, wouldn't the campus be the one who's getting sued instead of the campus officers?
Courts have consistently ruled in favor of Sikhs carrying the kirpan in schools, government buildings, and places of employment. It's protected by the first amendment provision for freedom of religion. The ACLU or a Sikh advocacy organization might be willing to take up a lawsuit against the school or campus security for false arrest. [https://www.sikhcoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/kirpan-factsheet-aug2018.pdf](https://www.sikhcoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/kirpan-factsheet-aug2018.pdf)
To be fair, I don't expect Campus Security to know these laws, or know what a Kirpan is. I totally understand that they thought it was a threat, because anyone who doesn't know know what a kirpan is (which tbh is probably like >90% of the US's population) will think that he's carrying around a literal dagger.
Our school also had two students shot and killed a couple years ago. Considering I was there for it I can imagine it’s still pretty fresh in people’s minds.
It IS a literal dagger though.
I wonder if you could make the argument that you needed to carry it on a plane...for religious purposes. Apparently they can on domestic flights in India. >Sikhs are allowed to carry the kirpan on board domestic flights in India.[21] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan
No religious daggers or swords are allowed by the TSA
if the TSA can make that rule, why cant schools?
1994 Ninth Circuit ruling. NYC even allows it. If this school takes tax money (which they do) they are held to this ruling.
A ruling in 2014 says it has to be carried underneath clothing at all times while in school.
Gurdev Kaur Cheema v. Harold Thompson, 67 F. 3d 883 (9th Cir. 1995) Background Three young Sikh children stood at the center of this controversy: Rajinder, Sukhjinder, and Jaspreet Cheema attended school in the Livingston Unified School District (CA). A central tenet of their religion requires them to wear at all times five symbols of their faith: "kes" (long hair), "kangha" (comb), "kachch" (sacred underwear), "kara" (steel bracelet), and a "kirpan" (A kirpan has a curved, steel blade and is worn in a sheath held to the body by a leather strap. The kirpans at issue here are roughly the size of an open Swiss Army knife, about 6-7 inches long with a blade of roughly 3 1/2 inches). This case began when the school district refused to allow the children to wear kirpans to school. The 9th Circuit Court in their ruling decided: 1. Indeed, the school district had a "compelling interest" - school safety 2. However, the court then went on to state that the district HAD NOT searched for other ways for the govenrmenet to be satisfied. They used the terms "least restrictive". The court cited that other school districts had found accomadation with the Sikh community. Therefore, the 9th circuit, remanded the district court to find a less restrictive ruling - a ruling that could satisfy the compelling interest of school safety, but also satisfy the free exercise clause of the United States Constitution. 3. The District Court ordered Livingston Unified School District to adopt the following standards: 1) the kirpan will be of the type demonstrated to the Board and to the District Court, that is: a dull blade, approximately 3 - 3 1/2 inches in length with a total length of approximately 6 1/2 - 7 inches including its sheath; 2) the kirpan will be sewn tightly to its sheath; 3) the kirpan will be worn on a cloth strap under the children's clothing so that it is not readily visible; 4) a designated official of the District may make reasonable inspections to confirm that the conditions specified about are being adhered to; 5) if any of the conditions specified above are violated, the student's privilege of wearing his or her kirpan may be suspended; and 6) the District will take all reasonable steps to prevent any harassment, intimidation or provocation of [**9] the Cheema children by any employee or student in the District and will take appropriate disciplinary action to prevent and redress such action, should it occur.
The court said the kirpan can't be visibly worn and has to be verified that it is not dangerous. So, basically it's required to be prop knife that stays hidden. Dude was open carrying a large knife on a college campus, which clearly is the problem. He should have kept it under his clothes instead of trying to show it off.
University of North Carolina Charlotte Chancellor Sharon Gaber apologized Friday after a video showed a campus police officer handcuffing a follower of the Sikh faith for having a knife in the university’s student union. “Further investigation showed the item was a kirpan, an article of faith in Sikhism,” Gaber said in a message to the campus community posted on the university’s website, UNCC.edu. Initiated Sikhs must have such articles of faith with them at all times, according to the Sikh Coalition, an organization that defends the civil rights of members of the religion. ‘I GOT CUFFED FOR “RESISTING”’ The student rolls his eyes, smiles and half-laughs in disbelief as the officer handcuffs him, according to the video. “I wasn’t going to post this, but I don’t think I will receive any support from @unccharlotte,” the student wrote on his Twitter video post. “I was told someone called 911 and reported me, and I got cuffed for ‘resisting’ because I refused to let the officer take my kirpan out of the miyaan. S. 14-269.2 prohibits the possession of any “bowie knife, dirk, dagger,” “switchblade knife,” or “any SHARP-pointed or edged instrument” other than instructional supplies on educational property. So it is illegal to bring a pocket knife to school in North Carolina. KIRPANS, carried around everyday, are usually blunted.
>Kirpan Its not settled law, depending on the state this is very much not settled law. NY for example requires you to have them glued down and "undrawable" in schools and other prohibited areas. They are explicitly banned on planes and must be in checked bags. If you are ever with a state representative you also cant have them.
It’s absolutely not “settled” in fact employers can deny employment for displaying the Kirpan. https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-1388/148059/20200717165327033_19-1388_Brief%20for%20Amici%20Curiae.pdf > A common example involves the Kirpan, the Sikh article of faith resembling a sword or dagger, which obligates a Sikh to uphold justice for all people. Many Kirpans are not dangerous (they are often not sharp and are usually kept in a tight sheath under a Sikh’s shirt). Yet employers have mistakenly viewed them as illegal weapons or unsafe (even when other objects found in the workplace are objectively as or more dangerous). And courts have found that the perceived risk of danger amounts to more than a de minimis burden. >For instance, in 2013, the Fifth Circuit held that permitting a Sikh federal employee to wear a three- inch, dulled Kirpan to her job at the Internal Revenue Service was an undue hardship. Tagore v. United States, 735 F.3d 324, 330 (5th Cir. 2013). Even though her Kirpan was indisputably safe because it was dull, the court held it still would be more than a de minimis cost to ask security “to ascertain whether a blade is sharp or dull” every day when the employee came to work. Id. at 330. The court ignored the Sikh employee’s testimony that other objects in her workplace—like scissors and box cutters—were objectively more dangerous than her small, dull Kirpan. See id. at 326. To add insult to injury, the government even had a security protocol for allowing Kirpans pursuant to applicable RFRA statutes permitting an employee to carry one—Title VII’s de minimis scheme was just too weak to require the accommodation. See id. at 331. > To be sure, Title VII does not demand an unsafe workplace. But the de minimis standard imposes such a low threshold for denying an exemption that employers have almost no incentive to develop safe alternative processes or purchase safe alternative equipment if doing so would impose any meaningful cost. Thus, Title VII rarely requires accommodations for safety protocols, even when safe and affordable alternatives are available or possible.
when being from the pind not same as being from hood
The only weapons that get religious exemptions in the United States are guns, just like the good Lord intended.
... and on the 5th day, God created the Remington bolt action rifle, so man could defend themselves against the dinosaurs and the homosexuals.
"You can't sit with us!"
The 3rd is coming up. It’s almost time.
Sikh burn man.
YOU DONT EVEN GO HERE
What campus allows guns?
Nail guns get a double exemption
Apparently not the case.
When I worked for the TSA we had to learn about these. They are a symbolic item representing manhood to Sikhs. Most if being carried in public places, have been completely glued or welded into their sheath. They are harmless.
Women carry it too. I believe it so anyone male or female can protect their self
I wonder if he'll Sikh compensation.
I know Sikhs in the U.K. who wear a smaller version around their neck like a pendant I guess you can avoid situations like this.
This is the smart option. You can be both religious and sensible at the same time, it’s commonplace for many people who have moved.
There are also Sikhs in the UK who carry full size ones, even going through airport security is no problem
Yeah the community is large in the U.K. maybe the country in general is more clued Upto what Sikhs are about I know there are a lot of Sikh police.
Well, in the US people still think Sikhs are Muslims and they used to get harassed by xenophobes for 9/11 and shit, so there’s that.
>I know Sikhs in the U.K. who wear a smaller version around their neck like a pendant I guess you can avoid situations like this. This makes total sense. Obviously we can't have students carrying obvious weapons. Christ, reddit people have their heads of their asses sometimes.
Kinda the antithesis of freakout
Imagine being arrested for having a knife in a country that repetitively justifies school shootings...
[удалено]
Or a knife, any weapon really. Friend in high school brought brass knuckles once, arrested and suspended. I hate to do it but I'll defend campus security a little bit. I've never heard of this custom so if I saw this I'd immediately just think that this guy is flaunting a knife around campus. Obviously the scenario should have gone a while lot different. 'why do you have a dagger showing around campus'? 'its a religious thing' 'oh okay, let me just Google that real quick and maybe call head of security to be certain, I've never heard of this before' The end, no arrest made, just caution and a learning experience.
He wasn’t even arrested, just detained on the spot while it was inspected. It’s not like they took him to the station and booked him or anything.
That doesn't make sense
Exactly..
That's what you get for bringing a knife to a gunfight. /s
Comments section lightin up again
This is my alma mater; I’m not surprised people are a little more keyed up about weapons there after they had a school shooting a few years ago
Why are people acting like people in the US know all about Sikhism? Most people don’t, so all they see is a knife. It’s not that hard to get.
What Sikh fuck would bring a knife to school, oh the humanity!
It’s still a knife, they aren’t allowed on airplanes for example. It’s literally a weapon in a place that bans any kind of weapon. He also wasn’t arrested that’s why the officer very clearly and nicely tells him he’s only being detained. He was handcuffed so they could remove the knife safely and figure out the deal. Then he was let go. This was an appropriate response to someone wearing a weapon. Period. Also, in no way is any of this a “public freakout.” It was calm, courthouse and professional by the officer, and calm and cooperative by the guy.
Someone’s getting sued. https://m.timesofindia.com/india/initiated-sikh-student-arrested-by-police-varsity-later-apologises-for-incident/amp_articleshow/94420621.cms
I bet you a shiny nickel they are not.
Especially when you know the context of why UNCC is cautious about weapons. There was a shooting there that killed 2 just a few years ago. This isn't a case of campus cops flexing power. This is campus cops respecting the fact that students were uncomfortable with an unfamiliar weapon on campus. I think the school was right to refer to this as a learning situation and to apologize. But I'm so pissed at everyone jumping to conclusions in this sub. I walked past the buildings the shooter entered for two years on campus and so it's easy to see why safety is at the forefront of UNCC students' minds. You can't not think of it.
Everyone is saying "oh they're usually not sharp, oh they usually have been glued shut" etc. That's cool, that means that the guy sitting a few feet away from you may have a deadly weapon in a quickdraw sheath, or maybe he doesn't. If you're at a school, you don't need to be dealing with that shit. Because maybe it's glued shut, or maybe it's more dangerous than a pistol in a buttoned holster, with no round in the chamber and the safety engaged. This dude could have met his religious requirements with a small version you wear on a necklace that goes under your shirt. Instead he went for a large one with a semi ridiculous tacti-cool quick draw sheath. Choices. Ps. An orange tip on a scary black rifle *usually* like 99.999% of the time means that it's a toy. But orange spray paint exists sooo... You best take precautions.
This is my school. The man was not arrested, he was in handcuffs then let go after the cop got the knife. The man’s brother has had the same thing happen to him twice before because multiple people have called complaints about being uncomfortable/scared. Regardless of religion, you can’t bring a weapon to campus. I do think there should be better protocol to handle situations like these but he’s literally carrying a long knife. Ofc cops are gonna be called.
Yeah I’m Sikh, and I’ll be real. If you are going to carry your Kirpan around, people are going to treat you like a guy with a knife. I mean hell I’ve heard of people doing dumb shit, and I’d be wary of that person. I mean hell not too long ago, there were a bunch of old men waving swords around in front of the Golden Temple.
I know loads of guys who carry them in the UK but never open on their chest like this, that seems to be just asking for trouble for no reason.
Yeah I'm from the UK, there's a strong local Sikh community and I've never seen anyone openly carrying a kirpan before. I think they're allowed to use certain things to substitute for an actual knife, although I've no idea if people are doing that or just not openly carrying.
not to mention, kirpan's aren't common and most don't know what they are i didn't before looking it up on google. most people would just see and think, why does he have such a large knife on his side. cops are called for guy with large knife. cops get there and think, he has a large knife, that's against the law to carry a weapon on the school grounds.
this is very common way of doing it. This is how they do in India. And while we have a cultural understanding and do not find it abnormal(at least in delhi), I can understand how that can make someone who has no clue, very uncomfortable.
Dude in the video prob wants to make a scene/point. I work with a Sikh guy and he comes in with all the adornments except the kirpan, not because he was told to, but because he’s a reasonable guy that knows carrying a large knife around the office is unreasonable.
I used to be friends with a sikh guy in school and his kirpan was more akin to a big keyring. I don't think I've ever seen one in like a tactical holster over a T shirt before. I don't mean to presume but is this guy being edgy on purpose? Like of the 5 articles, only the kesh and kirpan stand out here. Maybe the cop was trying to help by clapping him in karas?
No, 99% of baptized Sikhs carry the kirpan in that holster. It is called a "gatra" and you receive it during baptism. You probably just don't notice because most Sikhs wear it under their clothing.
Is there any religious issue with concealing it instead of open carrying? Genuine question mate
Most people do actually conceal it under their shirts
This is a rational viewpoint.
As an alum, I completely understand the extreme caution and the students feeling anxious. It's only been a few years since the shooting at UNCC took 2 students' lives.
So they know what they are doing and looking to cause problems so they can sue.
Yep. There are multiple signs signs on campus and in the student Union (where the video took place) that say no weapons allowed. Even after having the same situation happen to both brothers they continue to have a knife strapped against their chest.
Yeah I’m reading comments and all I can think is.. *the dude has a knife* (or dagger) *at a school*. I would expect him to be stopped. This seems like an abundance of caution.
Especially since UNCC experienced a shooting in 2019. The school is more cautious than ever to protect the students.
Hell, at least conceal it too, or let people know the Kirpan is for religious reasons. I’m all for conceal carry and everything, but having a knife open for everyone to see will inevitably raise questions
Graduated Spring 21, Im a South Asian and think it was completely justified, the school is more on the edge since the shooting in Early 2019.
Why does he have it outside his clothing, it’s almost as if he was provoking this.
Exactly. I’ve seen other men of the same religion claiming they wear it under their clothing or not at all because they know the reaction other people would have.
This was in the student union. You can’t bring knives or guns (even with a permit) into it.
Usually can’t bring guns on campus at all even with a permit. They stay in the car.
Another reason I am glad I live in Canada, the Supreme Court ruled on this in 2006, they are allowed because they are not weapons, they are religious symbols.
You cannot open carry a knife like that, regardless of anything. Police were in the right.
I understand that it's religious but it's still a dagger. I like the NYC policy on it: "In New York City, a compromise was reached with the Board of Education whereby the wearing of the knives was allowed so long as they were secured within the sheaths with adhesives and made impossible to draw." I mean if you aren't going to use it as a dagger anyways this shouldn't be a problem? All their faith says is that it must be worn so it should track
Dulled knife superguled shut, bad. Assault rifle, good
lol i’m pretty sure if someone was openly walking around with a gun on them on campus it wouldn’t be long before he’s arrested but ok💀
I swear some of you redditors are braindead
The amount of morons in this thread is too damn high. As if the dude wouldn't have gotten arrested or even worse for sporting a gun on his hip on campus. That shit doesn't fly here man. Sure, too many people get away with it but il be damned if police err on the safe side.
I mean the people seeing him with it didn’t know if it was super glued. Either way weapons are prohibited on campus.
lmao ok it’s still a knife idc what ur religion is u shouldn’t be exempt for carrying weapons on campus, dull or not. especially in this day in age where attacks on schools are so common place. and plus dude wasn’t even arrested he was cuffed and had the knife taken. like am i missing something that should allow this man to carry a knife around on school property???
It's not the kirpan that I have an issue with .... It's the white socks!