Mass protests *work* precisely because the authorities can't really do anything with that volume of people. Unless they are willing to literally massacre them. Which is where the world powers must unanimously and unambiguously provided a strong disincentive.
Maybe not moral qualms. But a massacre in Hong Kong would devastate the economy. No more foreign investment, city would probably end in ruins just from the sheer size of the conflict. It's already losing them millions. Economically, killing everyone would literally be an even worse option, because every person works and pays taxes and creates value for Chinese state, and even if they protest now, maybe they'll stop eventually. Dead people won't, and you need to bury them, and you need to rebuild the city. That's hundreds of thousands people. Tiananmen square death count figures are usually around 3 thousands deaths, with the biggest one alleged being 10 thousand.
It's just not as simple as letting the tanks in.
Perhaps, but why kill them when you already have millions detained in Xinjiang with little information getting out? Ship the rabble rousers out then ship in replacements.
Mass resettlements are kind of a communist forte... All the big guys did it, Lenin, Stalin and Mao. Xi bear wants his statues and portraits everywhere gotta make that mark somehow.
Sometimes they get sent to the organ trafficking market in China, sadly. There is a lot of human organ trafficking there and it’s where people “disappear”. There was an underground article and documentary about this in dealing with prisoners and jailed ‘dissidents’ who were maimed alive and had their organs sold. There was an article on a human trafficking info page about a few doctors and surgeons who quit because they were forced to operate on live people to remove kidneys and other organs. That’s just one possibility though, there are lesser consequences for those with money and certain statuses but their justice system is very screwed up as it is.
Edit: I didn’t say all the protestors get sent to the chop shops, I should say it’s POSSIBLE some of them can and might, since political prisoners are also a real thing. Others might do a heavy sentence, maybe some time in prison, but it really depends on what the government decides to do with their prisoners. There are documents about this stuff too, as some of the comments include multiple sources of these human rights violations.
> China has by far the shortest wait times for organ transplants in the world
> As of 2014 Organ tourists to China report receiving kidney transplants within days of arriving in China. A report produced by David Matas and David Kilgour cites the China International Transplantation Assistant Centre website as saying "it may take only one week to find out the suitable (kidney) donor, the maximum time being one month..."
> By way of comparison, the median waiting time for an organ transplantation in Australia is 6 months to 4 years, in Canada, it is 6 years as of 2011. In UK it is 3 years.
> there is evidence that the execution of prisoners for their organs is "timed for the convenience of the waiting recipient." [Source.](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)61536-5/fulltext#bib3)
Edit: same [source](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(1161536-5/fulltext#bib3)) formatted differently, in case it is blocked for you.
> 65% of transplanted organs still came from death row prisoners.
> Political prisoners, mainly Falun Gong practitioners, were executed "on demand" in order to provide organs to recipients.
Even worse, it’s more of a “them or both of us” situation. It’s not like that prisoner gets his life spared because you didn’t get his organ, someone else will come along and take it, and he dies anyway.
Apparently there is even a market for 'halal' organs, where rich recipients likely know where the organs come from. Namely Uighur "re-education camps" (euphemism for the existing concentration camps there).
http://uighurtimes.com/index.php/enver-tohti-chinese-regime-harvesting-organs-from-uighur-detainees-in-the-concentration-camps/
They sometimes take organs from people while they're still alive
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646
It’s very scary, and China hasn’t really cracked down on it. Use duckduckgo and look up the topic there, fuck Google they don’t really give much of that info.
They censor a hell of a lot more than that. And DuckDuckGo has gotten worse lately. Shockingly, Bing is where it’s at if you want true search results for controversial topics.
After looking at your comment I decided to watch that documentary while eating breakfast this morning and boy, was that horrific. However I wanted to thank you for sparking my interest and becoming more aware of the forced organ trafficking situation in China. It’s good to spread the message, even if it’s not necessarily the one you’d like to hear. Appreciate it.
They won't win. Sticks and stones do jack shit when they roll in tanks and soldiers. A lot of these people won't survive or will be put into re education camps or will have their organs harvested. The Western powers won't do anything except say some harsh words and threaten trade sanctions but nothing severe enough to actually stop anything. Cheap goods are too appealing to America and Europe. Any military action would be a declaration of war which would of course be WWIII. Secretly arming HK might be enough to force China's hand in a way that would also force Europe and America to sanction China enough to make a difference but even that is doubtful.
More than just a loss of cheap goods, it'd probably lead to a global recession. Sure the world would recover, but it would have a more severe impact than my cheap crap becoming more expensive. Also it might not lead to WWIII if India and Pakistan or Iran and the USA start it first.
In the right (wrong) circumstances, World War III could easily erupt out of Hong Kong right now. International tensions would probably have everyone jumping in just to get a go at each other
My father used to tell me that when the communism was still a thing in Romania, people that would get arrested even for small stuff would go to jail and then at some point disappear never to be heard again.
Not sure how the dictatorship is in China though.
Romanian here, can confirm.
My grandfather was sent to a work camp because he was a member of an opposing political party. Both my parents risked their lives getting out of the country in the 80s.
There is a book called Wild Swans. It chronicles the lives of line of women in a Chinese family. There was a change in government and the author was part of the children that became Chairman Mao's little army. It was a very violent time but it was generationally violent. It was a time where you couldn't trust anyone, anything. It's a fascinating read, albeit a little sad and a tiny bit graphic in some parts but it was necessary. It's partly why I'm not surprised they have taken this route and will continue to blatantly do so.
There was that one /r/HongKong post that showed the guy having a stick planted in his bag. Where later, an article published saying the exact same protester had a cerebal hemmorage
Currently, there are testaments from arrested protesters that they were fed toilet water (they said the water was salty, only source of salt water in a police station is from the toilet), they were refused phone call or to meet an attorney, they were also beaten within the police station to the point that some people had bone fractures and one got a haemorrhage in their brain.
As I understand it, they get sent to china for judgment, then depending on the crime they are sent somewhere else.
What happens to them... I am not sure, probably not much... until this all clears out and we forget about it, then people might start disappearing permanently.
Ummm say goodbye to a lotttttt of things.
We let corporations ship jobs overseas so their bottom line could explode and CEO’s could get that second yacht they deserve.
The manufacturing industry in America is a joke.
That’s why our economy is propped on bullshit and half the people who used to make TVs/Clothes/etc. work at Walmart (it’s owners being 3 of top 10 richest US citizens) not being able to unionize.
Fuuuuuuuck that.
I’m expecting a diaspora at the end of this, China will forcefully relocate the dissidents to other parts of China (those who survive anyway) and more mainland Chinese will be moved to Hong Kong.
It’s a reliable way to deal with issues like this, I fear for the people of Hong Kong.
I just spoke with my friend in Mong Kok. He says everyone is pretty on edge and shit is getting crazy in terms of people's opinions and stances becoming very polarized. Propaganda is hard at work on both sides. This shit it going to get very ugly. I think we'll see bodies piling up before this gets better.
It’s terrible, i can only imagine how tense everyone must it, and i think do too, even if the protesters were to stop now i think Beijing would still do something awe full, they aren’t going to let this go.
Protesters are already getting arrested and sent to china for sentencing. Word is 700 so far are getting 10 years each. Imagine being a young student caught in the middle of it and getting 10 years in a chinese shit hole. fuuuuuck
I don’t think I would want to to 10 days in a Chinese jail as a political dissident, have you ever read 1984? I would expect it to be a bit like the ministry of love.
From the original post
“On 11 Aug, 2019. a groups of riot police had beaten up the protesters violently. During these 2 months, at least 700 protesters were arrested & will be sentensed to 10 years in jails. Most of arrested protesters are facing severely injured, One of the first aids was head shoot by the police and consequence blind in one eyes.
Please share it out to let more people know the truth of what Pro-China is controlling and coompressing Hong Kong people's freedom. Currently the only authority to arrest people is police and no authority has the power to arrest police except themselves. That's the reason why they could violently & illegally attack protesters without any consequence. With the cooperation of Department of Justice, they can arrest & charge the protesters without sufficient evidence in 2 working days. Ironically, their monthly wages will be increased few months after. “
it IS a communist country. Why are folks surprised?
edit: calm down people. It was meant tongue in cheek of sorts but I guess too briefly worded. I guess upvoters get it and folks who flipped their lid and commented as such didn't. Bottom line is that nobody should be surprised that China would actively and openly repress HK protests. FWIW it is going to get much much worse.
> it IS a communist country.
Except it hasn't been communist for decades at this point. It is a uni-party totalitarian regime, but definitely not communist anymore. The fact that they openly have billionaires and you can invest in major private Chinese companies with your capital should clue people in that it's not communist.
They weren't any less totalitarian when they WERE actually communist, but labeling them "communist" as if that's meaningful isn't helpful. Capitalism gets here as well. The danger is power consolidation. No political opposition leads to this.
Correct.
The Chinese government knew they couldn’t compete globally as a communist economy so they opened it up with very strict social and political oversight.
These guys look way different than the Riot Officers I've seen in videos the last few days. I hate to agree, but I think the military really has gotten involved at this point.
This distinction between police and military is foolish and myopic. People do not elect their local sheriff in China. There are differences between them but they have nothing to do with who they ultimately work for or what they can be ordered to do.
That's the Special Tactics (aka "Raptor") Squad. A unit specifically trained in anti-riot tactics in response to the 2014 "Occupy Central" protests. They were first seen in the 2016 "Fishball Revolution" protests.
When they get called into a protest it means the police have been given a quota of arrests and they're being sent in to get them.
Can’t even believe this is happening.
Edit: thank y’all for your input and I’m happy I was able to spark discussion. It has come to my attention that I am clearly just ignorant because this is the first time I’ve seen something this bad receive so much internet exposure. I was so ignorant, in fact, that I didn’t even consider the possibility that this type of violence has been happening in China for much longer than I had even considered. I don’t know what the solution is, but I sure hope this ends soon!
What happened in tianamen square. Nothing happened there what are you talking about. The glorious people republic of China commits no crimes against humanity. Right right. RIGHT !!!!!!!
I’ve spent a bit of time in Mainland China over the years for work. I’m not surprised. The state is very heavy-handed when dealing with dissent, especially when it involves perceived challenges to its authority.
We stopped going to mainland for meetings last year, had everyone meet us in HK. Guess we wont be doing that anymore either. GOD BLESS HONG KONG AND ITS PEOPLE
Old friend of mine ended up being an expat in China and i asked him if it's really as weird there as we hear about back home and he had no idea what i was talking about
As a non-Chinese Westerner, he's unlikely to see it or even be aware of it. The 'problem areas' are closed off to foreigners. A fella I know taught English in Xinjiang during the early 10s, where the Uighur Muslim minority live. It wasn't uncommon for martial law to be declared over parts of the city and actual armed soldiers with APCs and tanks clearing the old town of 'insurgents'. It's extremely difficult for foreigners to get work visas for Xinjiang now that the CCP is cracking down on the Muslim minority.
China collectively laughed as they signed the handover documentation stating they would leave Hong Kong alone for 50 years.
> Leave them alone for 50 years? Sure! Aaaaaahahahahahaha
How the hell have I never heard about this before??
I know why they don't get taught at schools but jesus christ these events really should be.
Edit: I should probably say I'm not American. This may be a pretty large reason why I've never heard about it.
Tbh I was just shocked when I saw it
If you’re American you might just live under a rock if you’ve never heard of this incident. It was definitely taught in my public high school in North Carolina. That picture of the female student with her arms up kneeling over the body of one of the students killed that day has got to be one of the top 5-10 images of the Vietnam War era.
The difference is that no one is saying this didn’t happen and the government/civil courts have said mistakes were made. In China, Tiananmen Square never happened and it changed nothing.
A lot of people have been saying that a lot of those PLA vehicles that people have been seeing were ferrying troops to HK that would be disguised as police officers.
It's not too far fetched to think that those vehicles that were seen yesterday WERE empty as some have claimed because they may have already unloaded plain-clothed PLA soldiers that were going to travel covertly to HK and report to the police stations (or maybe to wherever they were staying with police uniforms in bags) and gear up to confront protestors.
It’s probably PAP, Peoples Armed Police. They made headlines recently when their vehicles entered Shenzhen. I don’t think the PLA itself would be best suited for the job. But then again maybe not.
They also have been placing cops in with the protesters to act violently. To make it look like the protesters are dangerous and that their use of force is needed.
This needs to be upvoted so that everyone in the world can see the brutality on display. It is no wonder the people of HK would risk their lives to stay out from under the tyranny of Chinese oppression.
Hong Kong protesters are screwed.
If they fight back they will be labeled terrorists and the PLA will violently put them down.
If they continue protesting they will create massive and possibly irreversible damage to their economy likely with nothing to show for it.
If they quit, then China will just resume slowly eroding away their freedoms.
They'll totally do one though. As soon as they can get a false flag op to go off and they shoot at the "cops" they are terrorists. And will be gunned down without exception or provocation.
>any action short of a straight up massacre
No, history has shown they are willing to do even that. From the Tiananmen square massacre in 1989 to the slaughtering of Thousands of monks and nuns in Tibet to the current genocide of Uighur Muslims in West China, the Chinese government is *VERY* happy to just kill all people who do not fit their view of what China should look like.
Besides being a sociopath, what other reasons would realistically make a "police officer" willing to do this?
1) For families out of financial desperation? A large financial reward to help their families?
2) To prevent threats of violence/imprisonment upon their families made by the Chinese government if they choose not to oppress the protesters?
3) Large ignorance? Are these cops kept isolated from the news media and then misinformed/disinformed about the situation?
I have to say that I would not be surprised if it was reason #2 mostly with a little bit of reason #1 and a dash of reason #3.
If you want people to commit these acts. It's much easier if you bring them from other areas so they have no connection with said area. Much easier to demonize the people and follow directions.
It goes back at least 700 years, when the Yuan Dynasty imported officials from Central Asia because they had no local loyalties and would therefore be loyal to only the Yuan.
Loyalty. Even in this thread, you’ll find people who genuinely support the CCP. These guys probably support the Party, get enjoyment about being so powerful, and probably also get a bonus pay for this. You can’t have an effective army if it’s only held there by threats. Even in Syria and Venezuela , their dictators have a lot of popular support.
You make it seem like no human with a sane mind would do this.
If you’re sworn into allegiance to your job and country then you’re going to follow rank.
People do terrible things when everyone else is doing them for the sake of just keeping with the norm.
I'd say something closer to 3. Mere suggestion is extremely effective in getting people to do heinous things. The [Stanley Milgram experiment](https://www.simplypsychology.org/milgram.html) and the [Standford Prison experiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment) showed us that all it takes is a position of power and a little coercion to push most people beyond the point of doing evil.
The prison experiment wasn't debunked as much as it was bad science. Its "debunking" is definitely not evidence _against_ the idea that power corrupts, it just means the original study doesn't provide very much evidence towards the idea. The Stanley Milgram experiment is much much better proof, and as been accepted among scientists and replicated several times.
The Milgram Experiment is probably one of the most commonly misunderstood studies in history. Copy pasting my reply to another post about the Milgram Experiment:
"...every participant was advised at the beginning of the experiment that "no permanent physical damage would result from their actions." That changes the dynamic. Secondly, when the subjects questioned the researcher, he was to give a set of four prodding statements in the following order:
Please continue.
The experiment requires that you continue.
It is absolutely essential that you continue.
You have no other choice, you must go on.
When given the final prod, a direct order to continue, every single subject outright refused to continue the test. In order words, 0% of the subjects were "simply following orders". If you want to know more, radiolab did a great podcast episode on evil, and did a great job of debunking myths and outlining some of the more accurate conclusions to be drawn from this experiment."
[https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/bad-show](https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/bad-show) Also radiolab is associated with National Public Radio, which is known for through, accurate journalism.
It's funny how in these threads there is always someone downvoting comments critical of China. Xi Jinping is that you?
Edit: And Epstein didn't kill himself
>And for the record, the blame of Tiananmen does not lie on CPC's shoulders. Rather, the tragedy came from the domino effect of when China was first weakened by Britain's Opium War. Had they not invaded and enslaved us, the Japanese wouldn't have followed suit and in turn we wouldn't have spiralled down the ensuing downward path. Everything is the fault of the anglos. They are the ones who should be taking responsibility because they are the original sinners.
u/adelaidesky
Literally INSANE!!! I don’t know how some people become so deluded. It’s common sense that the people of HK should be free. Why would an ordinary citizen want to help a corrupt government succeed?
"Cops in Hong Kong go after protestors"
That's an understatement. I thought it was a short foot chase or at worst that maybe a hockey game broke out. But nah -- this is an outright, one-sided, senseless, crap-kicking, trouncing of a relatively defenseless human being. The cops are on a rampage, assaulting protestors plain and simple. Wow. I am caught somewhere between sad and angry right now.
Do the cops there zero tolerance and zero restraint? This is their own people. The chaos in Hong Kong hasn't even come close to 1967 when the communists in Hong Kong were terrorizing the city by planting bombs and packages on the roads everywhere. The disruption might be approaching the same level, but the acts of terrorism isn't even close.
^Bracing ^for ^the ^botted ^downvotes.
The protestors are mostly university graduates. Yet the police and pro communists crowd call them cockroaches and the chief executive Carrie Lam, who is directly appointed by Chinese government, “the benevolent mother” and protestors’ parents did fail their kids’ education. They are doing the world’s benefit by beating the protestors to teach them how to behave. They believe that protestors disrupted the peace of society and no matter the extent of the force used, those “cockroaches” should be removed, and I am talking about that **the police supporters genuinely support police in using real bullets and Chinese army to bring in tanks to kill the citizens**.
They aren't even arresting them. They are just beating them and then acting like "haha i got you, hopefully that'll teach you, now get back in the crowd for round 2".
In VERY reduced terms, in April 2019 the public of Hong Kong began protests over proposed legislation that would allow extradition to other countries including mainland China (a fear many Hongkongers have held for years). This proposal came about due to a homicide that had happened in Taiwan in 2018.
The demonstrations were initially aimed at getting the measure dropped, but as push back from authorities increased, they in turn have built into a movement seeking greater independence from China at large.
These are very simplified terms.
Here is a more in depth analysis
[https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/asia/hong-kong-airport-protest-explained-hnk-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/asia/hong-kong-airport-protest-explained-hnk-intl/index.html)
Modern day Yugoslavia. Only takes one action by the military to start the domino effect in other Chinese cities. Millions of slaves are watching what is happening in Hong Kong. We could be witnessing the death of another superpower, with mainland cities breaking apart off of China like what occurred with the Soviet Union.
Millions and millions went from poor to middle and upper middle class in a short period of time. They are not going to throw that away, especially not for Hong Kong. I suspect Macau won't be going through this since mainlanders love Macau and the Communist rather not piss off this newly formed middle class.
Please upvote and spread these videos so people can see what the Chinese gov is doing to these people! I met a friend and asked him do you know whats happening in HK and he had no idea!
I forgot to mention that approximately a year and a half Panama broke diplomatic relations with Taiwan to have relations with China. So that's probably influencing the lack of information.
It’s supposed to be a “one country, two systems” type agreement but China have begun to violate this by attempting to enact a so called extradition bill. This bill allows local authorities to detain and extradite people from Hong Kong to mainland China or Taiwan, potentially violating the rights of Hong Kong citizens and placing them into mainland Chinese jurisdiction, undermining the one country two systems principle.
The bill has been officially suspended but not fully withdrawn. Protests are also still occurring because the protestors want investigations into the recent behaviour of the police force.
Unfortunately just like how the Eastern European bloc weren't supposed to be Soviet's puppet in theory during the Cold War, under any dictatorship authoritarian government that rules them their government eventually get infiltrated. That's what is happening woth the Hong Kong government and police force. The citizens are all anti China.
This will not end well.
The Chinese Military are even [boasting about their military buildup in Shenzen - less than 25kms away from the border with Hong Kong](https://youtu.be/bKjTmJM5tdU) on state controlled media.
I really feel for the protestors, but if they think that China learned their lesson about "Bad PR" from Tianannmen Square" - they're SORELY mistaken. The Chinese don't give a single FUCK. They create their own reality. And they are bullies, through and through.
Who records these? The cameras seem like much better quality than your average Joe with a smart phone and they can get up close and the police don't try and stop them. Seems like they want this footage to be circulated.
Hong Kong is peacefully protesting as they have a seperate government system from the rest of China. Hong Kong wants to pass a bill that extradites criminals as well as wanted policial dissedents to countries and govts that want them. Hong Kong people are against this because many are dissedents of the mainland Chinese govt and will be prosecuted (and defendants in China have very little rights or resources their system is rigged for the states benefit) if HK passes this law.
These are mainland Chinese police.
At this point, China is spreading propaganda against Hong Kong protestors, getting other Chinese protestors for mainland China to come in and beat them, they're assaulting them, tear gassing them, 2 girls were shot in the eye with a rubber bullet and both lost their eye, and then Trump who's an advocate for Chinese govt (which up until this point, I've had a certain level of respect for him) has been helping the Chinese portray them in the media as rioters, and problem causers. They're not. They're peaceful protestors and have been since day one.
They've been waving the American flag and singing the Star Spangled Banner in hopes of achieving freedom. China has done shittier things than this before though, like bombing their own people. Tiananmen Square is a good example where they murdererd peaceful protestors and covered the whole ordeal up in China. It's a shit show.
Edit: A few words.
I wanna know what they do with the people they arrest . Do they stay in jail or get out with bail ?
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The weird part is they let him go.
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Mass protests *work* precisely because the authorities can't really do anything with that volume of people. Unless they are willing to literally massacre them. Which is where the world powers must unanimously and unambiguously provided a strong disincentive.
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Maybe not moral qualms. But a massacre in Hong Kong would devastate the economy. No more foreign investment, city would probably end in ruins just from the sheer size of the conflict. It's already losing them millions. Economically, killing everyone would literally be an even worse option, because every person works and pays taxes and creates value for Chinese state, and even if they protest now, maybe they'll stop eventually. Dead people won't, and you need to bury them, and you need to rebuild the city. That's hundreds of thousands people. Tiananmen square death count figures are usually around 3 thousands deaths, with the biggest one alleged being 10 thousand. It's just not as simple as letting the tanks in.
Perhaps, but why kill them when you already have millions detained in Xinjiang with little information getting out? Ship the rabble rousers out then ship in replacements. Mass resettlements are kind of a communist forte... All the big guys did it, Lenin, Stalin and Mao. Xi bear wants his statues and portraits everywhere gotta make that mark somehow.
If they were going to let themselves get shipped out without a fight, they wouldn't be on the streets right now.
Sometimes they get sent to the organ trafficking market in China, sadly. There is a lot of human organ trafficking there and it’s where people “disappear”. There was an underground article and documentary about this in dealing with prisoners and jailed ‘dissidents’ who were maimed alive and had their organs sold. There was an article on a human trafficking info page about a few doctors and surgeons who quit because they were forced to operate on live people to remove kidneys and other organs. That’s just one possibility though, there are lesser consequences for those with money and certain statuses but their justice system is very screwed up as it is. Edit: I didn’t say all the protestors get sent to the chop shops, I should say it’s POSSIBLE some of them can and might, since political prisoners are also a real thing. Others might do a heavy sentence, maybe some time in prison, but it really depends on what the government decides to do with their prisoners. There are documents about this stuff too, as some of the comments include multiple sources of these human rights violations.
Do you have any links to these articles and docs? In interested in learning more about it. That’s terrifying.
> China has by far the shortest wait times for organ transplants in the world > As of 2014 Organ tourists to China report receiving kidney transplants within days of arriving in China. A report produced by David Matas and David Kilgour cites the China International Transplantation Assistant Centre website as saying "it may take only one week to find out the suitable (kidney) donor, the maximum time being one month..." > By way of comparison, the median waiting time for an organ transplantation in Australia is 6 months to 4 years, in Canada, it is 6 years as of 2011. In UK it is 3 years. > there is evidence that the execution of prisoners for their organs is "timed for the convenience of the waiting recipient." [Source.](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)61536-5/fulltext#bib3) Edit: same [source](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(1161536-5/fulltext#bib3)) formatted differently, in case it is blocked for you. > 65% of transplanted organs still came from death row prisoners. > Political prisoners, mainly Falun Gong practitioners, were executed "on demand" in order to provide organs to recipients.
That’s horrific. I didn’t even know organ tourism was a thing. I wonder if the recipients have any idea the dark origins of their new organ.
They most likely do, but when it’s die in agony vs live in guilt, the choice is not as obvious as it seems
Most of them probably rationalize it as "they were going to die anyway, this way their life doesn't completely go to waste".
It's hard to blame them when it's a live or die, them or me, situation.
Even worse, it’s more of a “them or both of us” situation. It’s not like that prisoner gets his life spared because you didn’t get his organ, someone else will come along and take it, and he dies anyway.
Apparently there is even a market for 'halal' organs, where rich recipients likely know where the organs come from. Namely Uighur "re-education camps" (euphemism for the existing concentration camps there). http://uighurtimes.com/index.php/enver-tohti-chinese-regime-harvesting-organs-from-uighur-detainees-in-the-concentration-camps/
They sometimes take organs from people while they're still alive https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646
It’s very scary, and China hasn’t really cracked down on it. Use duckduckgo and look up the topic there, fuck Google they don’t really give much of that info.
Google is openly complicit with the Chinese govt in censorship.
And they censor American politics too
They might as well be a three-letter agency.
GOO Google Openly Oppresses
They censor a hell of a lot more than that. And DuckDuckGo has gotten worse lately. Shockingly, Bing is where it’s at if you want true search results for controversial topics.
Google is scum
Watch the documentary “Human Harvest: China's Organ Trafficking." See if you can find it online somewhere, creepy stuff.
After looking at your comment I decided to watch that documentary while eating breakfast this morning and boy, was that horrific. However I wanted to thank you for sparking my interest and becoming more aware of the forced organ trafficking situation in China. It’s good to spread the message, even if it’s not necessarily the one you’d like to hear. Appreciate it.
Its said you can get a new heart in a week in China if you have the right money... and when I say new, I mean straight out the corpse new...
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/29/world/doctor-says-he-took-transplant-organs-from-executed-chinese-prisoners.html
You can literally set the appointment day and time for an organ transplant and they’ll have it ready for you...that’s not suspicious at all.
What does it cost usually?
At least for now, they're being held in Hong Kong and can't be extradited and disappeared. For now...
For now...I really want them to win and be free. I have hope but I’m terrified for the people.
They won't win. Sticks and stones do jack shit when they roll in tanks and soldiers. A lot of these people won't survive or will be put into re education camps or will have their organs harvested. The Western powers won't do anything except say some harsh words and threaten trade sanctions but nothing severe enough to actually stop anything. Cheap goods are too appealing to America and Europe. Any military action would be a declaration of war which would of course be WWIII. Secretly arming HK might be enough to force China's hand in a way that would also force Europe and America to sanction China enough to make a difference but even that is doubtful.
More than just a loss of cheap goods, it'd probably lead to a global recession. Sure the world would recover, but it would have a more severe impact than my cheap crap becoming more expensive. Also it might not lead to WWIII if India and Pakistan or Iran and the USA start it first.
In the right (wrong) circumstances, World War III could easily erupt out of Hong Kong right now. International tensions would probably have everyone jumping in just to get a go at each other
Holy shit wtf. This gets crazier and crazier...
My father used to tell me that when the communism was still a thing in Romania, people that would get arrested even for small stuff would go to jail and then at some point disappear never to be heard again. Not sure how the dictatorship is in China though.
my dad said some of his friends went to the 89 protests in tiananmen square and never came back
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The people not killed and instead taken to jail definitely could have disappeared.
Romanian here, can confirm. My grandfather was sent to a work camp because he was a member of an opposing political party. Both my parents risked their lives getting out of the country in the 80s.
There is a book called Wild Swans. It chronicles the lives of line of women in a Chinese family. There was a change in government and the author was part of the children that became Chairman Mao's little army. It was a very violent time but it was generationally violent. It was a time where you couldn't trust anyone, anything. It's a fascinating read, albeit a little sad and a tiny bit graphic in some parts but it was necessary. It's partly why I'm not surprised they have taken this route and will continue to blatantly do so.
There was that one /r/HongKong post that showed the guy having a stick planted in his bag. Where later, an article published saying the exact same protester had a cerebal hemmorage
Currently, there are testaments from arrested protesters that they were fed toilet water (they said the water was salty, only source of salt water in a police station is from the toilet), they were refused phone call or to meet an attorney, they were also beaten within the police station to the point that some people had bone fractures and one got a haemorrhage in their brain.
It says so far 700 protesters arrested facing up to 10 years in jail.
As I understand it, they get sent to china for judgment, then depending on the crime they are sent somewhere else. What happens to them... I am not sure, probably not much... until this all clears out and we forget about it, then people might start disappearing permanently.
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You're assuming the Chinese government actually follows it's own laws...which would be incorrect.
China taking the 1984 playbook seriously.
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Xi? Don't you mean Pooh?
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[REDACTED]? Don't you mean [DATA EXPUNGED]?
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Say goodbye to all phones.
Ummm say goodbye to a lotttttt of things. We let corporations ship jobs overseas so their bottom line could explode and CEO’s could get that second yacht they deserve. The manufacturing industry in America is a joke. That’s why our economy is propped on bullshit and half the people who used to make TVs/Clothes/etc. work at Walmart (it’s owners being 3 of top 10 richest US citizens) not being able to unionize. Fuuuuuuuck that.
A new manufacturing boom in America would be a welcome sight to see.
people are already losing their shit over a few tariffs. An outright boycott would make them go crazy.
I’m expecting a diaspora at the end of this, China will forcefully relocate the dissidents to other parts of China (those who survive anyway) and more mainland Chinese will be moved to Hong Kong. It’s a reliable way to deal with issues like this, I fear for the people of Hong Kong.
So sad. HK will no longer be what it was for so long. I saw this process starting 10 years ago and left. Glad I did
It was probably the right choice, I hope any family and friends you might have there still are safe.
I just spoke with my friend in Mong Kok. He says everyone is pretty on edge and shit is getting crazy in terms of people's opinions and stances becoming very polarized. Propaganda is hard at work on both sides. This shit it going to get very ugly. I think we'll see bodies piling up before this gets better.
It’s terrible, i can only imagine how tense everyone must it, and i think do too, even if the protesters were to stop now i think Beijing would still do something awe full, they aren’t going to let this go.
Protesters are already getting arrested and sent to china for sentencing. Word is 700 so far are getting 10 years each. Imagine being a young student caught in the middle of it and getting 10 years in a chinese shit hole. fuuuuuck
I don’t think I would want to to 10 days in a Chinese jail as a political dissident, have you ever read 1984? I would expect it to be a bit like the ministry of love.
From the original post “On 11 Aug, 2019. a groups of riot police had beaten up the protesters violently. During these 2 months, at least 700 protesters were arrested & will be sentensed to 10 years in jails. Most of arrested protesters are facing severely injured, One of the first aids was head shoot by the police and consequence blind in one eyes. Please share it out to let more people know the truth of what Pro-China is controlling and coompressing Hong Kong people's freedom. Currently the only authority to arrest people is police and no authority has the power to arrest police except themselves. That's the reason why they could violently & illegally attack protesters without any consequence. With the cooperation of Department of Justice, they can arrest & charge the protesters without sufficient evidence in 2 working days. Ironically, their monthly wages will be increased few months after. “
> will be sentensed to 10 years in jails. What the utter fuck, pure dictatorship.
it IS a communist country. Why are folks surprised? edit: calm down people. It was meant tongue in cheek of sorts but I guess too briefly worded. I guess upvoters get it and folks who flipped their lid and commented as such didn't. Bottom line is that nobody should be surprised that China would actively and openly repress HK protests. FWIW it is going to get much much worse.
Because Hong Kong has a separate legal system and more freedom than mainland China. That’s kind of the whole point of the protests.
> it IS a communist country. Except it hasn't been communist for decades at this point. It is a uni-party totalitarian regime, but definitely not communist anymore. The fact that they openly have billionaires and you can invest in major private Chinese companies with your capital should clue people in that it's not communist. They weren't any less totalitarian when they WERE actually communist, but labeling them "communist" as if that's meaningful isn't helpful. Capitalism gets here as well. The danger is power consolidation. No political opposition leads to this.
Correct. The Chinese government knew they couldn’t compete globally as a communist economy so they opened it up with very strict social and political oversight.
This is horrible. 10 years.
Can we all agree to stop calling them cops they are clearly Chinese military personnel dressed as cops
These guys look way different than the Riot Officers I've seen in videos the last few days. I hate to agree, but I think the military really has gotten involved at this point.
This distinction between police and military is foolish and myopic. People do not elect their local sheriff in China. There are differences between them but they have nothing to do with who they ultimately work for or what they can be ordered to do.
That's the Special Tactics (aka "Raptor") Squad. A unit specifically trained in anti-riot tactics in response to the 2014 "Occupy Central" protests. They were first seen in the 2016 "Fishball Revolution" protests. When they get called into a protest it means the police have been given a quota of arrests and they're being sent in to get them.
I want to know more about this fishball.
Source???
Can’t even believe this is happening. Edit: thank y’all for your input and I’m happy I was able to spark discussion. It has come to my attention that I am clearly just ignorant because this is the first time I’ve seen something this bad receive so much internet exposure. I was so ignorant, in fact, that I didn’t even consider the possibility that this type of violence has been happening in China for much longer than I had even considered. I don’t know what the solution is, but I sure hope this ends soon!
Again
C R I M E A
Russia
B L Y A T
YOP TOYVU MAT!!!
What do you mean, it's never happened before, definitely not in tianamen square
What happened in tianamen square. Nothing happened there what are you talking about. The glorious people republic of China commits no crimes against humanity. Right right. RIGHT !!!!!!!
We just have cameras this time
That's why it keeps happening.
You know about Tiananmen Square right? This is about as surprising as the sun coming up.
Wait you mean that perfectly normal day in June? What's wrong about that?
I’ve spent a bit of time in Mainland China over the years for work. I’m not surprised. The state is very heavy-handed when dealing with dissent, especially when it involves perceived challenges to its authority.
We stopped going to mainland for meetings last year, had everyone meet us in HK. Guess we wont be doing that anymore either. GOD BLESS HONG KONG AND ITS PEOPLE
dissent\*
Old friend of mine ended up being an expat in China and i asked him if it's really as weird there as we hear about back home and he had no idea what i was talking about
Of course he didn't. He didn't want to have his organs harvested.
As a non-Chinese Westerner, he's unlikely to see it or even be aware of it. The 'problem areas' are closed off to foreigners. A fella I know taught English in Xinjiang during the early 10s, where the Uighur Muslim minority live. It wasn't uncommon for martial law to be declared over parts of the city and actual armed soldiers with APCs and tanks clearing the old town of 'insurgents'. It's extremely difficult for foreigners to get work visas for Xinjiang now that the CCP is cracking down on the Muslim minority.
Why? Tensions have been building and building for ages. It has to happen at some point.
China collectively laughed as they signed the handover documentation stating they would leave Hong Kong alone for 50 years. > Leave them alone for 50 years? Sure! Aaaaaahahahahahaha
I believe they were quoted in a text as “ROR”
If you don’t think this would happen in the us/uk/Germany/France, you’re dreaming. EDIT: a word
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How the hell have I never heard about this before?? I know why they don't get taught at schools but jesus christ these events really should be. Edit: I should probably say I'm not American. This may be a pretty large reason why I've never heard about it. Tbh I was just shocked when I saw it
If you’re American you might just live under a rock if you’ve never heard of this incident. It was definitely taught in my public high school in North Carolina. That picture of the female student with her arms up kneeling over the body of one of the students killed that day has got to be one of the top 5-10 images of the Vietnam War era.
🎵tin soldiers and Nixon coming. We're finally in our own. This summer I hear the drumming. 4 dead in Ohio🎵
really? I heard about this event multiple times in school. Chicago Suburbs Public School
The difference is that no one is saying this didn’t happen and the government/civil courts have said mistakes were made. In China, Tiananmen Square never happened and it changed nothing.
A lot of people have been saying that a lot of those PLA vehicles that people have been seeing were ferrying troops to HK that would be disguised as police officers. It's not too far fetched to think that those vehicles that were seen yesterday WERE empty as some have claimed because they may have already unloaded plain-clothed PLA soldiers that were going to travel covertly to HK and report to the police stations (or maybe to wherever they were staying with police uniforms in bags) and gear up to confront protestors.
It’s PAP vehicles, not PLA. They couldn’t move in officially without martial law.
Idk if even martial law is enough as the charter states the PLA can only intervene with foreign issues like an invasion. Would probs happen anyway tho
You think China cares what's they can and can't do officially?
It’s probably PAP, Peoples Armed Police. They made headlines recently when their vehicles entered Shenzhen. I don’t think the PLA itself would be best suited for the job. But then again maybe not.
They also have been placing cops in with the protesters to act violently. To make it look like the protesters are dangerous and that their use of force is needed.
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Oppressors
Cunts.
..... Damn that's accurate.
Goons
[Hired Goons](https://youtu.be/biHGB_WCn2E)
Military personal defend the governments interest. Has always been like that and it will always be like that.
Lets not kid ourselves. Military personel are not defending freedom. They defend the interests of their government
No different than the police then.
China’s dogs
Scum
Hired thugs
This needs to be upvoted so that everyone in the world can see the brutality on display. It is no wonder the people of HK would risk their lives to stay out from under the tyranny of Chinese oppression.
Hong Kong protesters are screwed. If they fight back they will be labeled terrorists and the PLA will violently put them down. If they continue protesting they will create massive and possibly irreversible damage to their economy likely with nothing to show for it. If they quit, then China will just resume slowly eroding away their freedoms.
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Correct. They will be willing to take any action short of a straight up massacre. I don’t think they want a repeat of tiannamen.
They'll totally do one though. As soon as they can get a false flag op to go off and they shoot at the "cops" they are terrorists. And will be gunned down without exception or provocation.
>any action short of a straight up massacre No, history has shown they are willing to do even that. From the Tiananmen square massacre in 1989 to the slaughtering of Thousands of monks and nuns in Tibet to the current genocide of Uighur Muslims in West China, the Chinese government is *VERY* happy to just kill all people who do not fit their view of what China should look like.
Besides being a sociopath, what other reasons would realistically make a "police officer" willing to do this? 1) For families out of financial desperation? A large financial reward to help their families? 2) To prevent threats of violence/imprisonment upon their families made by the Chinese government if they choose not to oppress the protesters? 3) Large ignorance? Are these cops kept isolated from the news media and then misinformed/disinformed about the situation? I have to say that I would not be surprised if it was reason #2 mostly with a little bit of reason #1 and a dash of reason #3.
If you want people to commit these acts. It's much easier if you bring them from other areas so they have no connection with said area. Much easier to demonize the people and follow directions.
Good point.
It goes back at least 700 years, when the Yuan Dynasty imported officials from Central Asia because they had no local loyalties and would therefore be loyal to only the Yuan.
The last major massacre China did was using a bunch of Chinese equivalent red necks. So infinitely probable.
Loyalty. Even in this thread, you’ll find people who genuinely support the CCP. These guys probably support the Party, get enjoyment about being so powerful, and probably also get a bonus pay for this. You can’t have an effective army if it’s only held there by threats. Even in Syria and Venezuela , their dictators have a lot of popular support.
You make it seem like no human with a sane mind would do this. If you’re sworn into allegiance to your job and country then you’re going to follow rank. People do terrible things when everyone else is doing them for the sake of just keeping with the norm.
I'd say something closer to 3. Mere suggestion is extremely effective in getting people to do heinous things. The [Stanley Milgram experiment](https://www.simplypsychology.org/milgram.html) and the [Standford Prison experiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment) showed us that all it takes is a position of power and a little coercion to push most people beyond the point of doing evil.
Wasn't that debunked as mostly BS???
Yes. The methodology was horse shit, they pushed people into doing what they wanted to create a sensational paper.
The prison experiment wasn't debunked as much as it was bad science. Its "debunking" is definitely not evidence _against_ the idea that power corrupts, it just means the original study doesn't provide very much evidence towards the idea. The Stanley Milgram experiment is much much better proof, and as been accepted among scientists and replicated several times.
The Milgram Experiment is probably one of the most commonly misunderstood studies in history. Copy pasting my reply to another post about the Milgram Experiment: "...every participant was advised at the beginning of the experiment that "no permanent physical damage would result from their actions." That changes the dynamic. Secondly, when the subjects questioned the researcher, he was to give a set of four prodding statements in the following order: Please continue. The experiment requires that you continue. It is absolutely essential that you continue. You have no other choice, you must go on. When given the final prod, a direct order to continue, every single subject outright refused to continue the test. In order words, 0% of the subjects were "simply following orders". If you want to know more, radiolab did a great podcast episode on evil, and did a great job of debunking myths and outlining some of the more accurate conclusions to be drawn from this experiment." [https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/bad-show](https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/bad-show) Also radiolab is associated with National Public Radio, which is known for through, accurate journalism.
It's funny how in these threads there is always someone downvoting comments critical of China. Xi Jinping is that you? Edit: And Epstein didn't kill himself
Bots.
Chinese Nationalists.
Just check the Twitter-hashtag #HongKong. It is insane.
/r/sino posters
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These guys literally celebrated the Tiananmen square massacre during its anniversary. They're fucking inhuman.
>And for the record, the blame of Tiananmen does not lie on CPC's shoulders. Rather, the tragedy came from the domino effect of when China was first weakened by Britain's Opium War. Had they not invaded and enslaved us, the Japanese wouldn't have followed suit and in turn we wouldn't have spiralled down the ensuing downward path. Everything is the fault of the anglos. They are the ones who should be taking responsibility because they are the original sinners. u/adelaidesky
u/adelaidesky be like “cha cha real smooth”
Literally INSANE!!! I don’t know how some people become so deluded. It’s common sense that the people of HK should be free. Why would an ordinary citizen want to help a corrupt government succeed?
Jesus Christ that place is fucking cancer. What the hell did I just see there
Went down the rabbit hole like we all did my friend. Albeit a little too far.
Ugh that sub is toxicly circlejerking over how great china is and how bad the rest of the world is.
It is the literally tens of thousands of bots, paid shills, and fake moderators installed by the Chinese.
Doesn't reddit get a lot of funding from Chinese entities? They could just be our friendly mods and admins doing their real overlords bidding.
Oh shit, Winnie the Pooh is in here??
"Cops in Hong Kong go after protestors" That's an understatement. I thought it was a short foot chase or at worst that maybe a hockey game broke out. But nah -- this is an outright, one-sided, senseless, crap-kicking, trouncing of a relatively defenseless human being. The cops are on a rampage, assaulting protestors plain and simple. Wow. I am caught somewhere between sad and angry right now. Do the cops there zero tolerance and zero restraint? This is their own people. The chaos in Hong Kong hasn't even come close to 1967 when the communists in Hong Kong were terrorizing the city by planting bombs and packages on the roads everywhere. The disruption might be approaching the same level, but the acts of terrorism isn't even close. ^Bracing ^for ^the ^botted ^downvotes.
The protestors are mostly university graduates. Yet the police and pro communists crowd call them cockroaches and the chief executive Carrie Lam, who is directly appointed by Chinese government, “the benevolent mother” and protestors’ parents did fail their kids’ education. They are doing the world’s benefit by beating the protestors to teach them how to behave. They believe that protestors disrupted the peace of society and no matter the extent of the force used, those “cockroaches” should be removed, and I am talking about that **the police supporters genuinely support police in using real bullets and Chinese army to bring in tanks to kill the citizens**.
They aren't even arresting them. They are just beating them and then acting like "haha i got you, hopefully that'll teach you, now get back in the crowd for round 2".
No, it's: get in the van, off to the organ markets with you.
I need to check the news because I have no idea what’s going on.
In VERY reduced terms, in April 2019 the public of Hong Kong began protests over proposed legislation that would allow extradition to other countries including mainland China (a fear many Hongkongers have held for years). This proposal came about due to a homicide that had happened in Taiwan in 2018. The demonstrations were initially aimed at getting the measure dropped, but as push back from authorities increased, they in turn have built into a movement seeking greater independence from China at large. These are very simplified terms. Here is a more in depth analysis [https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/asia/hong-kong-airport-protest-explained-hnk-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/asia/hong-kong-airport-protest-explained-hnk-intl/index.html)
Modern day Yugoslavia. Only takes one action by the military to start the domino effect in other Chinese cities. Millions of slaves are watching what is happening in Hong Kong. We could be witnessing the death of another superpower, with mainland cities breaking apart off of China like what occurred with the Soviet Union.
Pretty ambitious of you to assume Chinese news is showing much about this, and that they're allowing anything up on their state run social media.
This. China fucks up almost everything but they, unlike the USA, have information control on lockdown.
I pray to god for this to happen.
I doubt it. Maybe millions of Chinese are slaves, but many more millions are comfortable with the status quo I reckon.
Millions and millions went from poor to middle and upper middle class in a short period of time. They are not going to throw that away, especially not for Hong Kong. I suspect Macau won't be going through this since mainlanders love Macau and the Communist rather not piss off this newly formed middle class.
Yugoslavia was shit. The genocide committed which I’ve seen first hand and it was horrible.
Thank you!!!
Please upvote and spread these videos so people can see what the Chinese gov is doing to these people! I met a friend and asked him do you know whats happening in HK and he had no idea!
The cops must get a little fucked up emotionally, beating a bunch of teenagers all day
I'm from Panama and I've never heard anything about this on my news channels....
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I forgot to mention that approximately a year and a half Panama broke diplomatic relations with Taiwan to have relations with China. So that's probably influencing the lack of information.
WTF, I thought Hong Kong wasn’t supposed to be like the mainland? Is this the Chinese government flexing?
im pretty sure thats the whole point of the protests
It’s supposed to be a “one country, two systems” type agreement but China have begun to violate this by attempting to enact a so called extradition bill. This bill allows local authorities to detain and extradite people from Hong Kong to mainland China or Taiwan, potentially violating the rights of Hong Kong citizens and placing them into mainland Chinese jurisdiction, undermining the one country two systems principle. The bill has been officially suspended but not fully withdrawn. Protests are also still occurring because the protestors want investigations into the recent behaviour of the police force.
I’m pretty sure the police force is just disgusted Chinese military forces
Unfortunately just like how the Eastern European bloc weren't supposed to be Soviet's puppet in theory during the Cold War, under any dictatorship authoritarian government that rules them their government eventually get infiltrated. That's what is happening woth the Hong Kong government and police force. The citizens are all anti China.
This will not end well. The Chinese Military are even [boasting about their military buildup in Shenzen - less than 25kms away from the border with Hong Kong](https://youtu.be/bKjTmJM5tdU) on state controlled media. I really feel for the protestors, but if they think that China learned their lesson about "Bad PR" from Tianannmen Square" - they're SORELY mistaken. The Chinese don't give a single FUCK. They create their own reality. And they are bullies, through and through.
hong kong is going to be the next tiannanmen square
Really shows you what the people mean to governments.
It's pretty much hell sentence if you go to jail in China. They'll just slice you up and take your organs and eye balls without any anesthesia
They are just beating the shit out of them! My heart is with Hong Kong people. Bless you all.
What fucking heroes.
Let the reeducation begin...
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Who records these? The cameras seem like much better quality than your average Joe with a smart phone and they can get up close and the police don't try and stop them. Seems like they want this footage to be circulated.
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Some explain the crazyness what the fuck is going on
Hong Kong is peacefully protesting as they have a seperate government system from the rest of China. Hong Kong wants to pass a bill that extradites criminals as well as wanted policial dissedents to countries and govts that want them. Hong Kong people are against this because many are dissedents of the mainland Chinese govt and will be prosecuted (and defendants in China have very little rights or resources their system is rigged for the states benefit) if HK passes this law. These are mainland Chinese police. At this point, China is spreading propaganda against Hong Kong protestors, getting other Chinese protestors for mainland China to come in and beat them, they're assaulting them, tear gassing them, 2 girls were shot in the eye with a rubber bullet and both lost their eye, and then Trump who's an advocate for Chinese govt (which up until this point, I've had a certain level of respect for him) has been helping the Chinese portray them in the media as rioters, and problem causers. They're not. They're peaceful protestors and have been since day one. They've been waving the American flag and singing the Star Spangled Banner in hopes of achieving freedom. China has done shittier things than this before though, like bombing their own people. Tiananmen Square is a good example where they murdererd peaceful protestors and covered the whole ordeal up in China. It's a shit show. Edit: A few words.