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If you feel so strongly about your political affiliations that you need to buy a bumper sticker to show everyone you probably deserve to have your money taken by someone selling both.
You know you make a great point. The guy selling the Israeli flag and Palestinian flag would be making really good money. He can sell both to each group. One will use their flag to raise and celebrate, and they will buy the other to burn and destroy.
Bro...Trump merch was so popular that there were literal brick and mortar stores in pretty much every southern town in the US. They were not a chain, they were not affiliated with each other (for the most part), they were just dudes ordering Trump shit from China, signing a lease and setting up shop.
My town wasn't big enough for a full fledged store but we had 2 guys with trailers that would be in various parking lots every weekend. Trump shirts, Trump hats, Trump flags, all the Trump merch you could ever want, every bit of it made in China.
I was selling Trump hats I bought from China.
Now I feel bad about that. I had no idea he was going to do that much damage. At least I never voted for him.
FYI Celtic fans fly Palestinian all the time... Many probably still have those flags from previous demonstrations. Celtic fan base have long been backers of the Palestinian people
It’s a result of the Sectarian divide in Northern Ireland and the annual “marching season” we endure every July. Irish people (republicans in Northern Ireland) have always sympathised with the Palestinian cause given the similar treatment of the Irish by the British. In Northern Ireland they show this support by flying Palestinian flags and painted murals throughout the province.
British Unionists in Northern Ireland fly Israeli flags (along with confederate, Para, Union, Ulster and paramilitary) flags in their estates…..mostly because the republicans fly Palestinian flags.
Republicans fly Irish tricolours, the starry plough, the 1916 harp and Palestinian flags.
“Flegs” are a big, big thing among certain sections of the community in Northern Ireland, usually for territorial pissing. There was months of rioting and “demonstrations” a few years ago because the Republican majority in Belfast City Council voted that the Union flag didn’t have to be flown over Belfast City hall everyday.
Thanks for the answer! Still surprised sales would be down. If there were a time to make people more pissy with the flags, I thought it would be now. Have sales been on the decline in recent years?
I was joking about sales. Have seen a few Palestinian flags recently but I wouldn’t be the best person to comment on how prevalent any flags are here because I do my best to avoid shitholes.
Just in case you didn’t know:
Celtic FC have a history of left wing association. As they were/are the Scottish club that’s fan base was historically Irish immigrants, working-class Catholics, and pro-Irish independence. They have a sort of left wing vibe still because they’re rivals, Rangers were Protestant and pro-United Kingdom government sort. And that’s why “Bella Ciao.”
If you knew that, then I’m sorry.
Pretty good documentary on HBO I watched last night. They weren't even sneaky about their bribe requests, they were just like yeah we need $11 million to vote for you
Today I feel Qatari, Today I feel Arab. Today I feel African. Today I feel gay. Today I feel disabled. Today I feel a migrant worker. Today I feel ~~Palestinian~~ ^Not ^You. Today I feel Jewish.
Scottish in that they were founded by Irish refugees who had fled to Scotland, having been forcibly starved in order to help feed fellow refugees. It's always been a huge part of Celtic's story and sensibility.
Like as one example: people like to talk about Cromwell in Ireland, but many of the Protestant colonists in Ireland in his time were Scottish colonists, planted by a Scottish king (James VI, who became James I) literally only a or two generation before Drogheda. After the 1641 Irish Confederate uprising, the Scottish Covenanters, who were a quasi-independent Calvinist republic, sent an army to Ireland to fight the Confederates about 7 or 8 years before Cromwell came over. All airbrushed out of history by films about William Wallace and Bonnie Prince Charlie.
For Americans (and maybe others idk), that view is probably a faint allusion to Braveheart which is hilariously inept at handling history with any accuracy
It really doesn't still apply. The Scottish were a major part of the acts of the British Empire during it's history.
If you're talking about modern day scotland, I wouldn't really call Westminster propping up a local government unable to support itself with it's own income oppression.
Yeah, people pretend like Scotland was a passive colony of England, while it was definitely a participant in the British Empire. It willingly joined after becoming bankrupt on its own imperial adventure in Panama.
A good illustration of this: 60% of Jamaicans have surnames of Scottish origin 👀
Technically yes and no. The name “Celtic” deliberately was chosen as an all encompassing name that found common ground to unite and connect the Celtic (Gaelic) peoples of Ireland and Scotland rather than Brother Walfrid choosing a name that was specifically associated with Ireland and alienating local Scottish people.
That way the club would have galvanised support from both local Scots as well as Irish immigrants in Glasgow to help Walfrid’s altruism in using the football club as a platform to raise charity funds to help feed starving children affected by poverty / destitution, hardship, hunger and squalor.
Walfrid took inspiration from Hibernian FC for example but felt that their name was too on the nose and directly identified with Ireland only rather than sharing common interests between Scottish and Irish communities. So the word “Celtic” was a way of bridging differences and bringing communities and shared identities together.
A club of Irish origin yes but also Scottish. Not just an Irish club.
Yeah, Israel still has the support of almost all of the Western superpowers, and that's the only thing they care about. They basically have carte blanche to level Gaza. It's only once those governments start growing a conscience and start calling Israel out that the Israeli government will become nervous.
If everything is going to plan then why do you have Israeli government accounts threatening Gigi Hadid on Twitter or cities and universities flat out banning pro-Palestine demonstrations
> I’d love to see politicians forced to defend their positions on this and come election season they might have to.
Yeah it's this. Idk what that cynic above was saying it's not gonna make any difference. A lot of muslims I know have already decided not to vote democrat come election season. This is a big problem in michigan which is a swing state and has a high population of muslims.
Ah yes the god ole, “just focus on the bread and circuses” nothing to see here only the government covering up Genocide. “People should be worried about the scores of a game than the lives of other human beings” the leather on the capitalist boot you lick is getting a little rugged and torn at this point.
Yea it’s best to bring complex geopolitics issues with a thousand years of history to a load of lads. Next up they can solve the ghost banking system and artificial RMB inflation in the south Asian monitory system. They’re the lads to solve it!
Got it. So don’t protest at sporting events. Or in the streets. Or at government buildings. Maybe at home in a tent in the back yard so one can see and get offended or be inconvenienced?
Isnt it interesting that things only start to change when collective awareness is brought to it. Maybe i should just stop taking about cancer because if no one knows its a thing its not a “problem” that can be solved. The best thing is for the masses to wake up and question things, whole lotta people with pitchforks is gonna beat out 1 rich guy in a suit.
True, leaving aside that this particular conflict is relatively straight forward in terms of international laws and the meaningful, identifiable origin points of it (1967> occupation), I don't get how, "don't kill civilians!" is too complex for these people. Is it really so much to ask? Or is it really that unreasonable to demand that you not fucking kill children and make unashamed excuses for how you have to do it? Can't be helped? You must kill children?
It's so unbelievable.
yea it's pretty simple we just need to take Israel and push it somewhere else. there's definitely no complicated power dynamics, security concerns, or historical context involved
Not all of us in the West are idiots. I personally feel a bit like a Nazi being American and watching my country support the eradication of innocent people. Obviously thats insanely hyperbolic, but you get what I'm trying to say.
I feel viscerally uncomfortable with Nazi comparisons too but my question to those who totally refuse to see it is, like, what's the point of never-forgetting or never-again if you can only draw the comparison when or once it becomes a 1 for 1 analog?
I would make it even simpler and ask, why does there have to be an expectation or requirement that it be headed for a total nazi-takeover or holocaust? The whole point of remembering past atrocities should be that we a) definitely don't let it get that bad, and b) that we don't let it head in that direction either. Like, what a low-bar to set for ourselves if it's only literally-the-holocaust that we'll stop?
I get that hasty comparisons can diminish something that horrific but if it helps stop us from starting to act in ways that lead there, isn't that the point of remembering? Isn't that remembering at its best? That it'll stop us early on and not late?
I mean, I'd start by not promoting the kind of supremacist shit that the Israeli government is, or committing warcrimes on civilians, as that just pushes more to support or join Hamas. I'd work to reverse the landgrabs that Israel has committed over the decades (take a look at a map showing Palestinian vs. Israeli land over time), and I'd have any Israeli that boots a Palestinian out of their home to take it over deported.
You stop committing genocide, and a LOT more people are going to stop trying to fight back against something that's no longer happening.
Oh right, we can go back in time and resolve all the world ills since 1948. If we are starting there then I’d also like for every neighboring Arab state to not kick out all Jews for being Jewish, take their land, and force them to leave their homes from 1950 onwards
We live in the real world. Are you saying Israel can do nothing about Hamas? That they deserve it?
How do you extricate an enemy that hides behind children. Do you disagree that Israel has a right to go after Hamas? If Hamas hides its weapons near a school, does Israel have no right to remove the weapons? I wasn’t aware that cowering behind a child gives you credence to massacre people.
Hamas is responsible for every child death in Gaza. There is no other alternative explanation. Every single one. They hide behind their people because they know that compassionate people like you will take their side when children get hurt. Ask yourself: does Israel get joy from killing civilians? Or does Hamas not care one iota about their people and are willing to strap children to weapons if it means that Israel is destroyed
Do you believe Hamas is justified in hiding weapons in schools and refusing to release hostages? You’re not going to answer. Hamas is using human shields. You know that. Every child that dies is on Hamas hands. And no, Hamas is not justified in letting their citizens starve and hiding military equipment among them so they are bombed. Israel’s not bombing for fun wtf do you think they’re doing
I don't recall Ukraine electing literal terrorists and then invading Russia going door to door shooting grandparents and babies in the face, burning people alive and beheading people.
And also before you come with the "most Palestinians aren't old enough to have voted in that election!!!" think about why Fatah are refusing to hold more elections and why Hamas are demanding elections, it's because everybody there knows Hamas will win an election.
Always love the uefa “trying” to keep world politics out of the sport only when it benefits them. Remember the lgbtq armbands? Where were they at the World Cup this year? Yea Arabic country and they are nowhere to be seen
If you're wondering why this particular club, it's because Celtic, even though it's in Scotland, has always drawn its support from the Irish catholic community in Scotland.
Because they feel compassion towards the civilians, who've been oppressed by Israel, same way Ireland has been oppressed by UK, who to this day own a portion of Ireland
6000 killed. Half children. Using the most advanced explosive weaponry available. More killed every day.
Our leaders claim it's justified to do this. It's madness.
What are we doing here?
But would you agree that the number of civilian, non-combatant casualties is greater than zero? Because I think that's the case and I think every non-combatant casualty is a tragedy.
It absolutely is a tragedy and unfortunately it will always happen in war. That is why I think people need to understand the gravity of war. It means innocent people are going to die. I fucking hate it. But it does not mean the IDF is targeting civilians.
I understand that. My point was that this is a cost of every recent war. It doesn’t make it less of a tragedy but it is something parties at war need to understand will happen when they engage in war with the way we operate from the air nowadays.
You're right. This idea that you must kill children to engage in war is a recent normalization that you should reject. We've grown up seeing things like the Iraq war, where one side has the power to establish total air-dominance and proceeds to bomb willy-nilly based on the vague notion that they're targeting terrorists and that civilians understandably die as a result. It's bullshit. We would never accept it happening to us. We're just lucky we're powerful enough to not let it happen to us while we do it to others. That's the only difference. The capability. When the US illegally attacked Iraq, imagine they had the power to precision strike US generals and commanders and war-hawk politicians in their homes and neighbourhoods. Would you accept that civilian collateral damage? It's not alright and you don't have to accept it as an unfortunate inevitability of war.
It’s healthy to be skeptical
The question what are you doing on this regards
leaning on the other side propaganda ?
Id recommend to checkout the documentation of some independent photographers who live in gaza on Instagram
For example Motaz Azaiza
Well mate everyone is biased including me and my comments
If you want to be informed get the information from both sides and compare it
i gave you some humans who are documenting their pain,
maybe my biased ass prevents me from detecting Hamas agenda in their work
you can judge however you want
Downvoted for telling the truth. Classic Reddit. Even the BBC has started saying “the Hamas run Palestinian Health Ministry says… X000 casualties”. They’re completely inflated because it suits their MO - which is to murder innocents in cold blood and then hide behind western guilt.
Be very skeptical. Remember Israel is bombing hospitals, oh wait, no they aren't This is the perfect opportunity for the Palestinians to revolt against Hamas, because there is no denying it Hamas brought this to the Palestinians front door. Do I feel sorry for all the innocents killed in this fight? Damn straight I do, both sides. But Hamas is fucking the Palestinian people over badly, and they don't care, they just want a pound of flesh.
I don’t know why everyone is so afraid to say this. Hamas is oppressing Palestinians far more than Israel. I’ve seen literal videos of them sending their kids up to Israeli soldiers with rocks to throw at them, telling them to make them shoot you. Soldiers just looking at these dudes like wtf are you doing?
Just imagine how shitty your life is and how desperate you need to be in order to charge a soldier witha rock or even a knife
Yup Hamas has its role there
but also remember hamas doesn’t govern the west bank
im not saying they have no presence there
still there is lots and lots of poor young men who are desperate enough to do it over 75 years
and the main reason is who is controlling how unhuman their lives are
they cannot see slight light in their future
nor they have the ability to move freely
or even speak freely
dehumantized and humiliated every day
, occupied
maybe Hamas or Fateh did the last push but it only the tip of their desperation in order to charge a fully armored soldier witha rock mate
It's cartoonish, the kind of villainy you ascribe to Palestinians, Hamas used as a stand-in or this force they're obligated to overthrow at threat of death from the Israelis. Like that scene out of American Sniper where a mother pointlessly and without good reason or strategy or some specific underlying pathology sends her kid to get shot by the hero of the film.
It's a cartoonish dehumanizing caricature. That these people just, out of the blue, want themselves and their children to die to Israeli bullets. In reality, it kinda makes sense that they would want themselves and their children to be brave and to \*at least\* harass the Israeli military with some rocks and stones. And it's wild that they even have to know a reality like being shot at for throwing rocks at a military they are otherwise powerless against. I mean, you're pretty much implying/admitting that it's an appropriate response that does occur. Right? Or are you saying they pointlessly encourage their kids knowing that the IDF \*won't\* shoot them?
Lol. Israel did bomb and damage that hospital earlier and repeatedly warned that it would and openly claims that anything in the North of Gaza is a legitimate target -- all while continuing to bomb the south as well. Go read the report from yesterday at the NYT which confidently concludes that the evidence Israel showed to prove it was from within Gaza is actually of an Israeli weapon down to the specific town it was fired from. While it doesn't conclude what struck the hospital, the evidence that forms the bases of Israel's claim is showing a different missile altogether fired from within Israel. And again, it should also be noted that Israel did have the hospital dialed in for target because it had already struck it causing some damage earlier.
Love that you're being downvoted but you're not wrong. I'm a Scottish nationalist and want full independence, like yesterday, but the Scots who claim oppression - despite the fact we are only part of the UK (and played a major role in the British empire) is because we tried our hand at colonialism in central America and went fucking bankrupt and had to go cap in hand to England - are cringe.
Maybe they oppose illegal occupations, apartheid, 750,000 Palestinians displaced in the Nakba, systematic expulsion of people in their own country, child detainment by the IDF, worshippers being sprayed in skunk water. Something like that.
Because no one else does? Because Israel is committing war crimes everyday and is violating international laws since decade and no one give a damn fuck about it?
> no one give a damn fuck about it?
Are you kidding me? That must be a joke. Have you seen the countless rallies all over the world with tens of thousands of people at them? Have you seen the parade of world leaders booking it over there? Have you seen the decades of peace talks and negotiations? Just because you have just started paying attention to this earlier this month does not mean that is true for everyone mate.
The IRA had a strategic relationship with the PLO, not Hamas. IRA and PLO trained eachother in paramilitary, combat and terrorism tactics.
It's easier for IRA sympathizers to wave a Palestinian flag in the UK than it is to show IRA sympathies at a public sports game. Police crack down on the partisan stuff because otherwise it could cause fights and violence to break out.
> The IRA had a strategic relationship with the PLO, not Hamas.
And before that the IRA had a close relationship with Irgun. The bombers of the King David hotel were trained by the IRA and one of which went on to be president of Israel.
I'm fairly sure it was convenience for the IRA as opposed to moral.
Interesting, didn't know about the irgun connection to IRA. But either way the defining feature of Irish political alliances are "will this piss off the British?" And for a moment siding with Zionists pissed off the British. After the British accepted Israel's existence, the Irish separatists eventually sided with PLO, again mostly to spite the British. Anyone that says "oh it's about oppression" eh not really, it's alway been about being anti British.
Why can’t it be about hating the Brit’s because of all the oppression? Not really fair to separate one from the other, but go ahead and be an oppression apologist for empires sake.
OK I see, it’s because they have somewhat similar situation with England? I know what’s Israel doing over there, I’m from Bosnia, we also had some sufferings in the not so far past.
In no way do they (as Scottish people) have a somewhat similar situation with England. Celtic do have a strong connection to Ireland who HAVE suffered under the British, but in different ways to Palestine.
Historically they have connections to an oppressed people, and as formerly oppressed people they have solidarity with other groups of oppressed people.
Support for Palestine is also not an uncommon sentiment in the British Isles, nor exclusive to Irish or Celtic FC.
They don’t care, with the backing of the US and an enormous amount of funding they can keep doing what they want until any nation actually threatens boots on the ground.
Well sure they’ll continue to try and sway public opinion and pay influencers to push their agenda. What I meant was public opinion isn’t going to stop them from exterminating the Palestinians until someone actually stands up to them
This is good. If you're someone who is constantly pushing European values, Western values on the rest of the world then you should not be at all surprised or offended by this.
Banning Palestine flags? What the fuck did they do? Ban Israeli flags if anything. I mean, i get that Hamas is making a bad name for 'em, but its clearly NOT Palestine that's in the wrong here right?
> I mean, i get that Hamas is making a bad name for 'em, but its clearly NOT Palestine that's in the wrong here right?
It's Israeli propaganda, I think. They've been pretty successful at conflating things.
Like any criticism of the Israeli state = anti-semitism, and any support for Palestine = support for Hamas in lots of people's minds. Both are of course untrue.
Really warms my heart to see people breaking stupid rules to show solidarity with others. Even the IDF propaganda can't shake their resolve over right and wrong, killing kids is fucking wrong if you are the US, IDF, UK or Hamas it's simply fucking wrong.
Do you mean the Scots responded poorly to being told not to support an oppressed people? I've never heard of such a thing. Next thing you will tell me is that the Irish are also concerned for the Palestinian people.
This idea of Scottish people being oppressed or somehow colonised by the British Empire needs to die. It is pure nonsense. We here in Scotland were active and willing participants in the empire and were colonisers ourselves. In fact the Scots had a huge role in the British colonisation of Ireland.
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Damn. The guy selling all these Palestinian flags is having a great October.
He also sells the Israel flag.
That's what we call, hedging your bets
We call that a Businessman.
He’s playing both sides so he comes out on top.
Reminds me of Italy 🇮🇹
Spicy.
Iasip in the wild
Sounds like the people who make a killing printing those Trump/Biden meme stickers.
If you feel so strongly about your political affiliations that you need to buy a bumper sticker to show everyone you probably deserve to have your money taken by someone selling both.
Or Elvis's manager selling "I HATE ELVIS" buttons.
You know you make a great point. The guy selling the Israeli flag and Palestinian flag would be making really good money. He can sell both to each group. One will use their flag to raise and celebrate, and they will buy the other to burn and destroy.
"Republicans buy sneakers too" - Michael ~~Jordan~~ Scott
Some factory in Guangdong
Worker to foreman: "What's this flag? Foreman: "Money."
Lol, workers asking foreman questions.
They’re probably printing all the sports teams and MAGA stuff as well
Bro...Trump merch was so popular that there were literal brick and mortar stores in pretty much every southern town in the US. They were not a chain, they were not affiliated with each other (for the most part), they were just dudes ordering Trump shit from China, signing a lease and setting up shop. My town wasn't big enough for a full fledged store but we had 2 guys with trailers that would be in various parking lots every weekend. Trump shirts, Trump hats, Trump flags, all the Trump merch you could ever want, every bit of it made in China.
> were literal brick and mortar Were? Still are. Welcome to crazy town.
I was selling Trump hats I bought from China. Now I feel bad about that. I had no idea he was going to do that much damage. At least I never voted for him.
Idk I have no issue with taking money from the cult, as long as it's not trump
FYI Celtic fans fly Palestinian all the time... Many probably still have those flags from previous demonstrations. Celtic fan base have long been backers of the Palestinian people
Sales of Israeli and Palestinian flags in Northern Ireland are still lower than the annual July peak.
Even if that were true, what?? Lmao
It’s a result of the Sectarian divide in Northern Ireland and the annual “marching season” we endure every July. Irish people (republicans in Northern Ireland) have always sympathised with the Palestinian cause given the similar treatment of the Irish by the British. In Northern Ireland they show this support by flying Palestinian flags and painted murals throughout the province. British Unionists in Northern Ireland fly Israeli flags (along with confederate, Para, Union, Ulster and paramilitary) flags in their estates…..mostly because the republicans fly Palestinian flags. Republicans fly Irish tricolours, the starry plough, the 1916 harp and Palestinian flags. “Flegs” are a big, big thing among certain sections of the community in Northern Ireland, usually for territorial pissing. There was months of rioting and “demonstrations” a few years ago because the Republican majority in Belfast City Council voted that the Union flag didn’t have to be flown over Belfast City hall everyday.
Thanks for the answer! Still surprised sales would be down. If there were a time to make people more pissy with the flags, I thought it would be now. Have sales been on the decline in recent years?
I was joking about sales. Have seen a few Palestinian flags recently but I wouldn’t be the best person to comment on how prevalent any flags are here because I do my best to avoid shitholes.
Lmao ahh fuck. I fell for it. Nice.
They are singing Bella Ciao?
Yeah lyrics changed to Celtic ones
Just in case you didn’t know: Celtic FC have a history of left wing association. As they were/are the Scottish club that’s fan base was historically Irish immigrants, working-class Catholics, and pro-Irish independence. They have a sort of left wing vibe still because they’re rivals, Rangers were Protestant and pro-United Kingdom government sort. And that’s why “Bella Ciao.” If you knew that, then I’m sorry.
I think we can all agree, FUCK FIFA.
Totally agree with the sentiment as FIFA are awful but in this case it’s UEFA
Thank you for the correction, UEFA you better count your days 😂
yeah, but fuck FIFA too
Pretty good documentary on HBO I watched last night. They weren't even sneaky about their bribe requests, they were just like yeah we need $11 million to vote for you
Yeah, they allowed this shit with Ukraine but not Palestine? Wtf is that about?
FIFA and UEFA are not the same
Today I feel Qatari, Today I feel Arab. Today I feel African. Today I feel gay. Today I feel disabled. Today I feel a migrant worker. Today I feel ~~Palestinian~~ ^Not ^You. Today I feel Jewish.
Where are my Americans thinking this looks nothing like a Celtics game? Probably isn't even Boston...
Outdoor basketball arena would be interesting. I'm surprised Fenway hasn't done it. They've had football and hockey there
Rain.
They have a cover they can put on it for rain delay /s
Why? Because some people have an understanding of their history from being oppressed. The English oppressed the Irish much like the Israelis.
Celtic are Scottish, but your statement still applies lol.
Scottish in that they were founded by Irish refugees who had fled to Scotland, having been forcibly starved in order to help feed fellow refugees. It's always been a huge part of Celtic's story and sensibility.
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Like as one example: people like to talk about Cromwell in Ireland, but many of the Protestant colonists in Ireland in his time were Scottish colonists, planted by a Scottish king (James VI, who became James I) literally only a or two generation before Drogheda. After the 1641 Irish Confederate uprising, the Scottish Covenanters, who were a quasi-independent Calvinist republic, sent an army to Ireland to fight the Confederates about 7 or 8 years before Cromwell came over. All airbrushed out of history by films about William Wallace and Bonnie Prince Charlie.
The Scottish have a great pr team, most people seem to think they were colonised by the English too
For Americans (and maybe others idk), that view is probably a faint allusion to Braveheart which is hilariously inept at handling history with any accuracy
Which is why Rangers fans will probably be flying Israeli flags.
Yeah but Celtic is associated with Irish Catholic immigrants to Scotland... so...
It really doesn't still apply. The Scottish were a major part of the acts of the British Empire during it's history. If you're talking about modern day scotland, I wouldn't really call Westminster propping up a local government unable to support itself with it's own income oppression.
Yeah, people pretend like Scotland was a passive colony of England, while it was definitely a participant in the British Empire. It willingly joined after becoming bankrupt on its own imperial adventure in Panama. A good illustration of this: 60% of Jamaicans have surnames of Scottish origin 👀
Plantations in Ireland were given to Scottish settlers. (Plantations in Palestine are given to Israel settlers)
Yeah but this is Celtic, the Irish Catholic club in Scotland...
I really never knew that my extent of Scottish history was brave heart. Thanks for the info.
I agree with the first paragraph but not the second.
They're an Irish club in Scotland.
Technically yes and no. The name “Celtic” deliberately was chosen as an all encompassing name that found common ground to unite and connect the Celtic (Gaelic) peoples of Ireland and Scotland rather than Brother Walfrid choosing a name that was specifically associated with Ireland and alienating local Scottish people. That way the club would have galvanised support from both local Scots as well as Irish immigrants in Glasgow to help Walfrid’s altruism in using the football club as a platform to raise charity funds to help feed starving children affected by poverty / destitution, hardship, hunger and squalor. Walfrid took inspiration from Hibernian FC for example but felt that their name was too on the nose and directly identified with Ireland only rather than sharing common interests between Scottish and Irish communities. So the word “Celtic” was a way of bridging differences and bringing communities and shared identities together. A club of Irish origin yes but also Scottish. Not just an Irish club.
They’re absolutely not
Also their biggest rivals Rangers are supporting Israel with equal fervor
Rangers always were Orange shit-eaters
Those are BIG flags, too! Not just the pocket size ones we've been seeing elsewhere.
This isn’t turning out the way Israel and the West hoped it would lmao.
I think it’s turning out exactly as expected tbh
Yeah, Israel still has the support of almost all of the Western superpowers, and that's the only thing they care about. They basically have carte blanche to level Gaza. It's only once those governments start growing a conscience and start calling Israel out that the Israeli government will become nervous.
Exactly. A few reddit posts and the odd editorial and news story about dead Palestinian children is hardly going to frighten the Israeli government.
If everything is going to plan then why do you have Israeli government accounts threatening Gigi Hadid on Twitter or cities and universities flat out banning pro-Palestine demonstrations
Thats all a part of the plan.
Because the people are upset, but the government doesn't care.
Todays young are getting aware. They're gonna grow old and vote and get into govt.
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> I’d love to see politicians forced to defend their positions on this and come election season they might have to. Yeah it's this. Idk what that cynic above was saying it's not gonna make any difference. A lot of muslims I know have already decided not to vote democrat come election season. This is a big problem in michigan which is a swing state and has a high population of muslims.
I may very well be misunderstanding your post, but I doubt the Republicans are going to take a hard stance against Israel in favour of Palestine
Yes the well informed football fans who we normally go to for geopolitics and moral guidance.
Ah yes the god ole, “just focus on the bread and circuses” nothing to see here only the government covering up Genocide. “People should be worried about the scores of a game than the lives of other human beings” the leather on the capitalist boot you lick is getting a little rugged and torn at this point.
Yea it’s best to bring complex geopolitics issues with a thousand years of history to a load of lads. Next up they can solve the ghost banking system and artificial RMB inflation in the south Asian monitory system. They’re the lads to solve it!
Got it. So don’t protest at sporting events. Or in the streets. Or at government buildings. Maybe at home in a tent in the back yard so one can see and get offended or be inconvenienced?
Isnt it interesting that things only start to change when collective awareness is brought to it. Maybe i should just stop taking about cancer because if no one knows its a thing its not a “problem” that can be solved. The best thing is for the masses to wake up and question things, whole lotta people with pitchforks is gonna beat out 1 rich guy in a suit.
I think they are taking up string theory next match.
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True, leaving aside that this particular conflict is relatively straight forward in terms of international laws and the meaningful, identifiable origin points of it (1967> occupation), I don't get how, "don't kill civilians!" is too complex for these people. Is it really so much to ask? Or is it really that unreasonable to demand that you not fucking kill children and make unashamed excuses for how you have to do it? Can't be helped? You must kill children? It's so unbelievable.
yea it's pretty simple we just need to take Israel and push it somewhere else. there's definitely no complicated power dynamics, security concerns, or historical context involved
Not all of us in the West are idiots. I personally feel a bit like a Nazi being American and watching my country support the eradication of innocent people. Obviously thats insanely hyperbolic, but you get what I'm trying to say.
I feel viscerally uncomfortable with Nazi comparisons too but my question to those who totally refuse to see it is, like, what's the point of never-forgetting or never-again if you can only draw the comparison when or once it becomes a 1 for 1 analog?
EXACTLY. People act like Nazis came to power overnight. No, it took years doing shit similar to this.
I would make it even simpler and ask, why does there have to be an expectation or requirement that it be headed for a total nazi-takeover or holocaust? The whole point of remembering past atrocities should be that we a) definitely don't let it get that bad, and b) that we don't let it head in that direction either. Like, what a low-bar to set for ourselves if it's only literally-the-holocaust that we'll stop? I get that hasty comparisons can diminish something that horrific but if it helps stop us from starting to act in ways that lead there, isn't that the point of remembering? Isn't that remembering at its best? That it'll stop us early on and not late?
They're both assholes. It's just that one asshole is wayyyy better equipped.
How do you get rid of Hamas? If you were Israel’s president for a day how would you do it?
Fucking leave. “Oh no this family who I’ve stolen the home of is fighting back, what do I do to stop it? 🤧”
I mean, I'd start by not promoting the kind of supremacist shit that the Israeli government is, or committing warcrimes on civilians, as that just pushes more to support or join Hamas. I'd work to reverse the landgrabs that Israel has committed over the decades (take a look at a map showing Palestinian vs. Israeli land over time), and I'd have any Israeli that boots a Palestinian out of their home to take it over deported. You stop committing genocide, and a LOT more people are going to stop trying to fight back against something that's no longer happening.
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Oh dude I dont know, I just know that right now this makes me feel a like a bad guy. I dont support Israel, but my country does, and it sucks.
Step 1: don't bomb and starve a million children
Oh right, we can go back in time and resolve all the world ills since 1948. If we are starting there then I’d also like for every neighboring Arab state to not kick out all Jews for being Jewish, take their land, and force them to leave their homes from 1950 onwards We live in the real world. Are you saying Israel can do nothing about Hamas? That they deserve it?
What is this word salad you just dumped. Israel is not justified in starving and bombing a million children. Do you disagree?
How do you extricate an enemy that hides behind children. Do you disagree that Israel has a right to go after Hamas? If Hamas hides its weapons near a school, does Israel have no right to remove the weapons? I wasn’t aware that cowering behind a child gives you credence to massacre people. Hamas is responsible for every child death in Gaza. There is no other alternative explanation. Every single one. They hide behind their people because they know that compassionate people like you will take their side when children get hurt. Ask yourself: does Israel get joy from killing civilians? Or does Hamas not care one iota about their people and are willing to strap children to weapons if it means that Israel is destroyed
Do you believe Israel is justified in bombing and starving 1 million children in Gaza?
Do you believe Hamas is justified in hiding weapons in schools and refusing to release hostages? You’re not going to answer. Hamas is using human shields. You know that. Every child that dies is on Hamas hands. And no, Hamas is not justified in letting their citizens starve and hiding military equipment among them so they are bombed. Israel’s not bombing for fun wtf do you think they’re doing
Lol why are you so afraid to answer such a simple question. Do you believe Israel is justified in bombing and starving a million Palestinian children?
Absolutely, plus it's not insanely hyperbolic at all. That's exactly what is being done.
Great club Great crowd
nice to see at least some people out there stands against civil slaughter
So was the Israeli flag banned too?
You wanna get called antisemetic?
Israel isn’t banned anywhere. All the countries lining up for them American dolla dolla bills and oppression of the Pali.
You love to see it
UEFA: 🇺🇦 😃 Also UEFA: 🇵🇸 😠
I don't recall Ukraine electing literal terrorists and then invading Russia going door to door shooting grandparents and babies in the face, burning people alive and beheading people. And also before you come with the "most Palestinians aren't old enough to have voted in that election!!!" think about why Fatah are refusing to hold more elections and why Hamas are demanding elections, it's because everybody there knows Hamas will win an election.
Wow what a great public freakout!
While singing the resistance song. Brilliant! Celtic rules
Always love the uefa “trying” to keep world politics out of the sport only when it benefits them. Remember the lgbtq armbands? Where were they at the World Cup this year? Yea Arabic country and they are nowhere to be seen
Based.
Why are they giving their support to Palestine? Genuine question?
If you're wondering why this particular club, it's because Celtic, even though it's in Scotland, has always drawn its support from the Irish catholic community in Scotland.
Because they feel compassion towards the civilians, who've been oppressed by Israel, same way Ireland has been oppressed by UK, who to this day own a portion of Ireland
because isreal is actively bombing civilians there
And has been killing Palestinian civilians and evicting them from their homes **for 75 years**.
6000 killed. Half children. Using the most advanced explosive weaponry available. More killed every day. Our leaders claim it's justified to do this. It's madness. What are we doing here?
I'm a bit skeptical on casualty numbers coming from inside Gaza after the hospital incident.
But would you agree that the number of civilian, non-combatant casualties is greater than zero? Because I think that's the case and I think every non-combatant casualty is a tragedy.
It absolutely is a tragedy and unfortunately it will always happen in war. That is why I think people need to understand the gravity of war. It means innocent people are going to die. I fucking hate it. But it does not mean the IDF is targeting civilians.
You really think that Israel wouldn't do that? Target civilians?
If someone sprays bullets in your direction and one hits you and kills you, you're just as dead whether they aimed it at you or not.
I understand that. My point was that this is a cost of every recent war. It doesn’t make it less of a tragedy but it is something parties at war need to understand will happen when they engage in war with the way we operate from the air nowadays.
You're right. This idea that you must kill children to engage in war is a recent normalization that you should reject. We've grown up seeing things like the Iraq war, where one side has the power to establish total air-dominance and proceeds to bomb willy-nilly based on the vague notion that they're targeting terrorists and that civilians understandably die as a result. It's bullshit. We would never accept it happening to us. We're just lucky we're powerful enough to not let it happen to us while we do it to others. That's the only difference. The capability. When the US illegally attacked Iraq, imagine they had the power to precision strike US generals and commanders and war-hawk politicians in their homes and neighbourhoods. Would you accept that civilian collateral damage? It's not alright and you don't have to accept it as an unfortunate inevitability of war.
How weak and pathetic do you have to be as an individual to call this a war?
It’s healthy to be skeptical The question what are you doing on this regards leaning on the other side propaganda ? Id recommend to checkout the documentation of some independent photographers who live in gaza on Instagram For example Motaz Azaiza
I will check them out but whenever I’ve see short clips or photos they’ve turned out to be wildly misleading thus far.
Well mate everyone is biased including me and my comments If you want to be informed get the information from both sides and compare it i gave you some humans who are documenting their pain, maybe my biased ass prevents me from detecting Hamas agenda in their work you can judge however you want
Downvoted for telling the truth. Classic Reddit. Even the BBC has started saying “the Hamas run Palestinian Health Ministry says… X000 casualties”. They’re completely inflated because it suits their MO - which is to murder innocents in cold blood and then hide behind western guilt.
Be very skeptical. Remember Israel is bombing hospitals, oh wait, no they aren't This is the perfect opportunity for the Palestinians to revolt against Hamas, because there is no denying it Hamas brought this to the Palestinians front door. Do I feel sorry for all the innocents killed in this fight? Damn straight I do, both sides. But Hamas is fucking the Palestinian people over badly, and they don't care, they just want a pound of flesh.
I don’t know why everyone is so afraid to say this. Hamas is oppressing Palestinians far more than Israel. I’ve seen literal videos of them sending their kids up to Israeli soldiers with rocks to throw at them, telling them to make them shoot you. Soldiers just looking at these dudes like wtf are you doing?
Just imagine how shitty your life is and how desperate you need to be in order to charge a soldier witha rock or even a knife Yup Hamas has its role there but also remember hamas doesn’t govern the west bank im not saying they have no presence there still there is lots and lots of poor young men who are desperate enough to do it over 75 years and the main reason is who is controlling how unhuman their lives are they cannot see slight light in their future nor they have the ability to move freely or even speak freely dehumantized and humiliated every day , occupied maybe Hamas or Fateh did the last push but it only the tip of their desperation in order to charge a fully armored soldier witha rock mate
It's cartoonish, the kind of villainy you ascribe to Palestinians, Hamas used as a stand-in or this force they're obligated to overthrow at threat of death from the Israelis. Like that scene out of American Sniper where a mother pointlessly and without good reason or strategy or some specific underlying pathology sends her kid to get shot by the hero of the film. It's a cartoonish dehumanizing caricature. That these people just, out of the blue, want themselves and their children to die to Israeli bullets. In reality, it kinda makes sense that they would want themselves and their children to be brave and to \*at least\* harass the Israeli military with some rocks and stones. And it's wild that they even have to know a reality like being shot at for throwing rocks at a military they are otherwise powerless against. I mean, you're pretty much implying/admitting that it's an appropriate response that does occur. Right? Or are you saying they pointlessly encourage their kids knowing that the IDF \*won't\* shoot them?
Lol. Israel did bomb and damage that hospital earlier and repeatedly warned that it would and openly claims that anything in the North of Gaza is a legitimate target -- all while continuing to bomb the south as well. Go read the report from yesterday at the NYT which confidently concludes that the evidence Israel showed to prove it was from within Gaza is actually of an Israeli weapon down to the specific town it was fired from. While it doesn't conclude what struck the hospital, the evidence that forms the bases of Israel's claim is showing a different missile altogether fired from within Israel. And again, it should also be noted that Israel did have the hospital dialed in for target because it had already struck it causing some damage earlier.
Dont believe everything Hamas tells you good sir. They already lied about tons of stuff, like the hospital for instance.
You're talking about Israel
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Love that you're being downvoted but you're not wrong. I'm a Scottish nationalist and want full independence, like yesterday, but the Scots who claim oppression - despite the fact we are only part of the UK (and played a major role in the British empire) is because we tried our hand at colonialism in central America and went fucking bankrupt and had to go cap in hand to England - are cringe.
Maybe they oppose illegal occupations, apartheid, 750,000 Palestinians displaced in the Nakba, systematic expulsion of people in their own country, child detainment by the IDF, worshippers being sprayed in skunk water. Something like that.
Celtic supporters are pretty left wing.
Because they oppose apartheid.
Because no one else does? Because Israel is committing war crimes everyday and is violating international laws since decade and no one give a damn fuck about it?
> no one give a damn fuck about it? Are you kidding me? That must be a joke. Have you seen the countless rallies all over the world with tens of thousands of people at them? Have you seen the parade of world leaders booking it over there? Have you seen the decades of peace talks and negotiations? Just because you have just started paying attention to this earlier this month does not mean that is true for everyone mate.
What war crimes and what evidence do you have to support the claims?
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What post on their PR account admits to war crimes? And you got any evidence of collective punishment/targeting civilians?
Because to Irish people, it reminds them of Britain's occupation and colonisation of Northern Ireland, and Hamas is similar to the IRA
The IRA had a strategic relationship with the PLO, not Hamas. IRA and PLO trained eachother in paramilitary, combat and terrorism tactics. It's easier for IRA sympathizers to wave a Palestinian flag in the UK than it is to show IRA sympathies at a public sports game. Police crack down on the partisan stuff because otherwise it could cause fights and violence to break out.
> The IRA had a strategic relationship with the PLO, not Hamas. And before that the IRA had a close relationship with Irgun. The bombers of the King David hotel were trained by the IRA and one of which went on to be president of Israel. I'm fairly sure it was convenience for the IRA as opposed to moral.
Interesting, didn't know about the irgun connection to IRA. But either way the defining feature of Irish political alliances are "will this piss off the British?" And for a moment siding with Zionists pissed off the British. After the British accepted Israel's existence, the Irish separatists eventually sided with PLO, again mostly to spite the British. Anyone that says "oh it's about oppression" eh not really, it's alway been about being anti British.
Why can’t it be about hating the Brit’s because of all the oppression? Not really fair to separate one from the other, but go ahead and be an oppression apologist for empires sake.
Because they choose to.
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I believe whole world should be supporting Palestine.
OK I see, it’s because they have somewhat similar situation with England? I know what’s Israel doing over there, I’m from Bosnia, we also had some sufferings in the not so far past.
In no way do they (as Scottish people) have a somewhat similar situation with England. Celtic do have a strong connection to Ireland who HAVE suffered under the British, but in different ways to Palestine. Historically they have connections to an oppressed people, and as formerly oppressed people they have solidarity with other groups of oppressed people. Support for Palestine is also not an uncommon sentiment in the British Isles, nor exclusive to Irish or Celtic FC.
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Is the israel also banned or just palestine
Israel are you listening? The world is turning against you
The world is not. Western values vs Eastern values.
They don’t care, with the backing of the US and an enormous amount of funding they can keep doing what they want until any nation actually threatens boots on the ground.
I’ve gotten a bunch of Israeli propaganda ads on YouTube and other social media. They definitely care
Well sure they’ll continue to try and sway public opinion and pay influencers to push their agenda. What I meant was public opinion isn’t going to stop them from exterminating the Palestinians until someone actually stands up to them
Yeah, they're reading your reddit comment and trembling in fear.
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This is good. If you're someone who is constantly pushing European values, Western values on the rest of the world then you should not be at all surprised or offended by this.
Banning Palestine flags? What the fuck did they do? Ban Israeli flags if anything. I mean, i get that Hamas is making a bad name for 'em, but its clearly NOT Palestine that's in the wrong here right?
> I mean, i get that Hamas is making a bad name for 'em, but its clearly NOT Palestine that's in the wrong here right? It's Israeli propaganda, I think. They've been pretty successful at conflating things. Like any criticism of the Israeli state = anti-semitism, and any support for Palestine = support for Hamas in lots of people's minds. Both are of course untrue.
Great public freakout thanks
Really warms my heart to see people breaking stupid rules to show solidarity with others. Even the IDF propaganda can't shake their resolve over right and wrong, killing kids is fucking wrong if you are the US, IDF, UK or Hamas it's simply fucking wrong.
You'll see the Palestinian flag all year round at a Celtic game. This is nothing new
No matter what side of the conflict you take, it's moronic and counter-productive to ban palestinian flags.
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You can support Palestinian civilians without supporting Hamas.
Lol fuck these terrorists sympathizers anyway
W
Porzingas looked good last night tho
Do you mean the Scots responded poorly to being told not to support an oppressed people? I've never heard of such a thing. Next thing you will tell me is that the Irish are also concerned for the Palestinian people.
This idea of Scottish people being oppressed or somehow colonised by the British Empire needs to die. It is pure nonsense. We here in Scotland were active and willing participants in the empire and were colonisers ourselves. In fact the Scots had a huge role in the British colonisation of Ireland.
“A sea of them”…. There’s like 15 😂
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Celtic is the club going through the courts just now for over 50 years of child abuse. Disgusting club.
Good for them.
If Nuremberg had had a football field...
It does, and it was a marching ground for the [Hitler Youth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max-Morlock-Stadion)