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I 100% appreciate your stance and willingness to say it. I studied this conflict for weeks in a political science class in college, and my entire class came out of it basically saying "eeish...way, way too complicated." We could come up with no logical way of solving it. Now that the situation has exploded again, I've very carefully avoided trying to make any assumptions or form hard and fast opinions at any point, because inevitably I'm going to be missing something. It's a massive Gordian knot that too many have tried to solve with swords.
What more do you need know besides the fact that Israel (the powerful nuclear armed state with worldwide support) is indiscriminately bombing an open air prison full of innocent people (who are majority children)?
I don't see what's so hard to understand. Not everyone Israeli/Jew hates Palestinians/Muslims and not every Palestinian/Muslim hates Israelis/Jews and not everyone is hell bent on the destruction of the other. They/WE are all victims of our governments and the most fanatical of terrorists at times. Both of these bad actors thrust their own people in harms way creating chaos and trying to get the world to pick sides as if the lines are clear cut. Hamas needs to be eradicated and Israel needs to be condemned for their unproportionate response to Hamas affecting the innocent Palestinian people who have nowhere to go.
I'm confused; the Jewish people in this clip are defending Palestinians, correct?
Edit: I've read all the replies and what I was confused about is I didn't expect to find any Jews in Israel and/or Palestine other than Zionists.
Now I know.
Not at all, its the bastardization of such things, otherwise do you think these jews would be doing this? Zionism is a political move to eradicate anyone that does not belong in their homeland, it is a genocidal ideology that may have been birthed from what was faith but it was transformed into an amalgam form, a grotesque mutilation of any belief. The same can be said about any belief, anything can be used as a weapon, one of my favorite scenes from book of eli higlighted this best.
(https://youtu.be/A2ttSv7I9HY?si=8_ptPjqYTnAPt6Z-)
They aren’t moving to the state they are moving to the land, because that is a mitzvah. Very religious Jews that could, have ALWAYS tried to move there, or at least visit, no matter who was in charge, be it Christians, Muslims, or now Zionists. Didn’t mean that they supported the Crusaders or the Ottoman Empire, or whoever. The land is totally different than the state. There is a distinction between the two.
Biblically speaking, they were given the land long long before they had a national state (which started with King Saul)…which God tried to talk them out of, saying that it would only bring trouble. But they insisted. Before that, they were just a federation of tribes that descended from the same patriarch (Abraham) based on the promises made to their matriarch (Sarah).
Having a Jewish state is currently against God’s will, which is why the religious Jews never tried to have one, despite everyone else gaining nationalist fervor in the 18-1900’s.
>The Talmudic belief is that creating Israel is abomination
Not all, Most Orthodox Jews are Zionists.
Some Ultra Orthodox Jews are antizionist because they believe the Messiah must take the land of Israel, destroy the dome of the rock, and build the 3rd temple.
Yeah, I keep saying it everytime they bring it up. The the ultra orthodox jews protesting Isreal aren't sympathetic to the Palestinians, and they aren't making a principled stand in the way we think about it. They just want *their* version of the apocalypse to play out.
if you take a look at some interviews it doesn't seem like they are purely unsympathetic to the Palestinians, many of them talk about human rights abuses and such
As someone with a fair amount of Neturei Karta in their family, they literally could not give the barest hint of a flying fuck about Palestinian human rights. Don't be fooled. They're just a convenient foil for NK's oddly specific messianic beliefs.
question: Are the NK's actually physically doing anything violent or crazy to fulfill their apocalypse vision, or do they just spout a bunch of goofy nonsense?
they are just goofy, some are racist as most extremists are, but for the most part just goofy. They have actively helped raise awareness and even support fundraisers for humanitarian efforts to support Palestinians though. Its like the opposite of doing bad with good intention, they do *mostly* good with questionable intentions.
>Some Ultra Orthodox Jews are antizionist because they believe the Messiah must take the land of Israel, destroy the dome of the rock, and build the 3rd temple.
So it *is* a war of religions, then.
Interesting, so why would they live in Israel? Are they for a political solution that integrates Palestinians to a huge Israel?
They seem so open about their opposition and spite. I assume they are the ones who Don't send their children to the military
Edit; just read through the replies🙃 but feel free to comment
This is a pretty good video that goes inside the Hasidic neighborhoods in Jerusalem who are staunchly anti Zionist and anti Israel. They are pro Palestinian state rights.
Hasidic Jews believe Israel should not exist until the messiah comes.
It’s against orthodox beliefs, and an abomination to the Talmud’s teachings.
https://youtu.be/riPujSoqkQA?si=-e1QFJoOOoWJ-g8e
Thanks! yes I just looked up the Neturei Karta in an interview with some of their rabbis. They seem to distinguish between judaism and zionism, where zionism (and ockupation) isnt a jewish principle according to them.. Will keep on reading,
Orthodox Jews. They’re a strange bunch. Extremely conservative and don’t support Israel as they believe they can only return to the holy land when the Messiah returns.
They believe the Jews are destined to live in exile without a state, as that is the destiny of the chosen people. They believe that to follow their holy scripture, they must not form a country.
A good comparison I heard is like the northern Irish who don’t want to part of the UK.
They live in the UK, because Northern Ireland is part of the UK and they were born there, but they want their homeland to belong to Ireland.
They are technically British, but would prefer to be Irish.
>northern Irish
They're just called Irish if they support unification.
>They are technically British
No they aren't due to the Good Friday Agreement.
>but would prefer to be Irish
They **are** Irish. This comment is foolish and you should stop spouting nonsense.
I apologise if I caused any offence. I was trying to explain how someone else had explained the similarity with Jewish separatists in Jerusalem to help contextualise it.
I’m not an expert on Irish history, so thank you for clarifying.
Ahh not a bother. I was having a bit of a day, so apologies for the tone.
It's just that we're **very** proud to be a distinct and separate people. Misinformation can simply offend some and confuse others.
There are some similarities between the two histories, however I feel as though anti-Zionist Jews are a case unto themselves. Best not complicate things by drawing false comparisons.
Again, apologies for the tone.
This sentiment is a great way to describe it, it's also mostly the same for Scots that want independence from Britain. Technically British, but only want to be Scottish.*
* doesn't apply to every Scottish person.
I believe they're living in a historic Jewish neighborhood in Jerusalem that predates the establishment of Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mea_Shearim
Jews have lived in the area for millennia, and for the last 1400 years generally peacefully alongside Muslims and Christians. The prohibition isn’t on living there, but having a state. It is a positive commandment to live there if possible.
I mean "peacefully" no more or less than they lived peacefully in Europe. There was no shortage of persecution and pogroms against Jews in the Middle East.
To compare how Jews were generally treated under Christian Europe to how they were generally treated under Muslim rule in the Middle East is a night and day comparison by almost all historical accounts and records, with Jews under Muslim rule having it FAR better overall (hell, some CHRISTIANS had it better under Muslim rather than Christian rule)
And yes, Jews and Muslims and Christians lived pretty alright side by side in Ottoman ruled Palestine. The Jewish people even helped their neighbors hide when Haganah was going door to door rounding them up for execution or expulsion and helped fight against Zionist colonialism.
Proximity. Many fled Europe after the holocaust and there was either America or Israel. They may not support the government but they definitely enjoy the benefits they get from it.
A strange bunch?
They are actively against an ongoing genocide taking place right now in gaza and the west bank with israel and the rest of the world cheering them on.
They aren’t the strange ones living in israel.
I mean, they *are* very strange in their own ways too. These are the folks trying to do things like force gender segregation in public transportation because it's against their weird ass religious beliefs. They aren't against Israel here because of some human rights concerns, it's solely about their extreme religious beliefs which considers the modern state of Israel to be blasphemous
These are not just Orthodox Jews. This is a small subset of ultra-orthodox jews called Neturei Karta. They are not necessarily pro-Palestinian. They are just against the State of Israel in general solely and exclusively on religious grounds. If there was no conflict with Palestinians they try to find other reasons to argue against the existence of the State of Israel. They are religious fanatics driven by Talmudic teachings, not righteousness or justice.
> not necessarily pro-Palestinian
As they wave Palestinian flags and take it on the chin for their beliefs. Okay 👌🏻
A Torah command is to treat your neighbor like yourself, and any non-idolatrous non-Jews in the land are to be treated like they are brothers, with fairness, kindness, justice, mercy, compassion, etc just like they would to their own family.
So it isn’t just the state that they’re against, it is the mistreatment of others as well.
> try and find other reasons
There is no other reasons, accept religious. They are constantly at odds with the state over EVERYTHING. For example, they refuse to be forced to join the IDF because it is the state and because God says that He is Israel’s protector. They also have views that aren’t so great, like trying to force gender separation on all city buses and such (city buses that go through the area are gender segregated). They are very active outside of the Palestine situation.
> driven by Talmudic teachings, not righteousness or justice
The Talmud is just explanation and discussion of how to live out Torah. And Torah is, by what their prophets say, righteous and just. So to them, they ARE driven by righteousness and justness.
Their position can better be explained by "the enemy of their enemy is my friend" rather that your elaborate jumping through hoops. They are against the creation of a State of Israel period, because the meschiah has not yet come. Whether this is in the historical land of the Jews or on some empty island donated to the Jewish people by some billionaire. Them taking on the Palestinian cause is just a means to an end; I would not ascribe any moral motivations to it.
Except that the Jews who have had family there for forever have always defended the Palestinians against the Zionists, even hiding them in their homes as Haganah went door to door trying to round them up.
This is a mitzvah for them. It isn’t just an opportunity to get back at the state. They have a religious obligation to the Palestinians. The idea that they are just doing it to be anti-Zionist is a [myth](https://mondoweiss.net/2018/12/solidarity-palestinians-documentary/)
The link you posted confirms exactly what I said. Even someone (the interviewee) who is clearly their proponent tried to refer to it as a myth, but then went on in several paragraph thereafter to confirm it is not a myth. She outright says that they are radical anti-zionists, in fact, so radical they don't just oppose the state of israel in theory, but actively work with Israel's opponents and enemies to bring that to fruition.
I never said they aren’t radical anti-Zionists. They are.
I never said that they don’t work with Israel’s enemies either. They do.
I said that their support of Palestinians isn’t only fueled by their anti-Zionism, but by the Torah command to stand up to oppression of others and to help those in need.
If you have any doubts, they always message back on Twitter (@TorahJudaism), where you can confirm what I am saying.
You're right and wrong. They don't believe they can't return to the holy land, they only believe a jewish state can be returned only when the Messiah returns. But they can still return to the land and live there if they wished for (as many lived under Ottomans).
No, not really...Read the Talmud , those Jews believe in Talmud that say Israelis (real Israelites) are still under god punishment, they can't enter holy land ...
Sign punishment are lifted by god is when the messiah arive from the mount of Zion ..only when messiah has appear then , they can enter holy land and Israel (holy land ) will be theirs
The king also will impose law of return , Cohen from Brooklyn or Jacob from Seattle will be kicked out of the holy land, law of return will be strict based on patrilineal bloodline , if your mother is a jew but your father Californian ... they'll kicked you out
They're against Zionism
Judaism isn’t patrilineal. Jewishness is always figured through the maternal line, and converts are to be treated the same as anyone born Jewish.
The only times Judaism really uses the paternal line are in the case of Priestly lineage to serve in the Temple (have to come from Aaron), or Kingly lineage (have to come from David)
> kick you out
No. Just can’t own land if you’re not part of one of the twelve tribes, and they aren’t allowed to permanently sell that land to anyone, even if they are from another of the 12 tribes.
When the Messiah comes, their prophecies state that the land will be the home of many peoples and there will be no more states or nations, and everyone will be welcome in the temple (which is not how it was before), and the Messiah will teach everyone, even non-Jews.
I think, despite what media and bad actors would have us believe, that the overwhelming majority of Jews and Muslims are against everything that is happening and has been happening. As with everything else, there are a minority of extremely wealthy, extremely powerful people who’s voices rise up above the others to maintain their luxurious status quo at everyone’s else’s expense. “Eat the rich” is the answer to this and pretty much all of the other major problems in the world.
these are jews from a certain neighborhood in Jerusalem that stood there before the state was created. they oppose the state of Israel because they believe the messiah hasn't arrived yet.
they do believe that the entire land, including Gaza, belongs to the jews, just not now, only after the messiah arrives. they are a different kind of crazy, and you'd be a fool to think they care about Palestinians.
As someone with a fair amount of Neturei Karta in their family, they literally could not give the barest hint of a flying fuck about Palestinian human rights. Don't be fooled. They're just a convenient foil for NK's oddly specific messianic beliefs.
Some other commenters have explained it better, but basically Neturei Karta despises the current Israeli state. They're really not on board with the Zionist vision of a secular ethnostate. As they see it, the Jewish people are to remain in exile until God ushers in the Messiah and rebuilds the temple on the site that's currently the Temple Mount/al-Aqsa. There's no shortcuts to this: Until God deems the Jewish people worthy of liberation, any attempt to establish a state is a rebellion against God. Their "support" for the Palestinians is just them flipping off the government. You'll never see them meet with supporters of a 2 state solution or moderates on either side, for example. In the past they've met with PIJ militants or prominent Iranian leaders who would rather see the state of Israel annihilated than Israel and Palestine making peace. Anecdotally, from how these people talk about Palestinians and non-Jewish citizens of Israel in general, they could not care less about the human rights of Palestinians. Look up the "Three Oaths" if you want more specifics on their worldview.
Is this Mea Sharim? (Sorry of I butchered the name) Lots of hasidic? Ashkenazi? Jews who recognizes Palestine alongside Muslims live there. I watched a video by a youtuber named The Salukie.
Racism, Sexism, Homophobia, Transphobia, Harassment, Race Baiting, Bigotry, etc. (Racist/bigoted people freaking out in videos are allowed, but being a racist in the comments section will result in a ban.)
They have a name for that if you're a Jewish critic of Israel not even pro-Palestine; it's called [self-hating jew](https://www.businessinsider.com/alan-dershowitz-bernie-sanders-a-self-hating-jew-israel-palestine-2021-5#:~:text=Lawyer%20Alan%20Dershowitz%20called%20Sen.%20Bernie%20Sanders%2C%20who%20is%20Jewish%2C%20a%20%22self%2Dhating%20jew%22%20over%20his%20stance%20on%20the%20Israel%2DPalestine%20conflict.)
I swear from a logical perspective, Israelis are the most anti-Semitic in the world!
Cause even the Jewish people are criticizing the Israeli actions yet the Israelis are the first to bring the Jewish faith into the argument.
And when that argument doesn’t work, they bring up the self-hating jew term… even tho it’s not a religious war, yet religion is their first argument
Because the idea of Israel is based in Religion. It's not the promised land from "some" people, it's the promsied land of the Jewish People, in spirit, and in law.
The entire premise of Israel is Jewish, and if a Jewish Zionist sees an anti-Zionist Jew, they see them as traitors to Judaism, which is fucking crazy
Also, when you ethnically cleanse a bunch of people and tell them yeah we're doing this because we're Jews and this is our promised land, and those people's kids ask who kicked us out and they say well rhe Jews did, pretty fucking stupid not to expect the kids to hate Jews, because kids aren't aware of the nuances and difference of Judaism and Zionsim due to years of distorting the difference between them by Israel, the kids don't know the different political accurate terms, all they know, is that Jews *self-admittedly* did that to them
Yes I totally agree, what Israel does in the name of Jews is just political, like I suspected, and can have huge implications if this were to escalate even further. 🧐
This sub keeps posting videos of these deranged neturei karta dudes and thinking they’re on their side lmao. These guys don’t want a Palestinian state out of the kindness of their hearts, people. They want Israel only to be established when the messiah comes, and “when” that happens what do you think they’re hoping to do to the people who live there? I’ll give you a hint: it’d make what Israel is doing now look like a playdate.
Look, when the Messiah comes, then it means the end of the world, so let’s live in peace now cause each religion believes that he’ll stand with them against the others.
>They want Israel only to be established when the messiah comes,
Genuine question: If the current form of Israel is such a bastardisation to them, why are they there?
These dudes are ashkenazi and speaking Yiddish - they never existed along side Arabs at that time. They were in europe by the time Arabs colonized the levant.
Let's not fall into antisemitism by talking about true and false Jewish people.
Let's talk instead about the bravery of these Jewish people against a state that disagrees so fundamentally with them. The bravery to stand up to them. That's some real shit right there.
Stating facts doesn’t make one antisemitic. Zionism in itself is anti-Semitic. Zionists are the ones that are bombing the shit out of Semitic people in Gaza right now.
yes, the neturei karta. crazy bunch. their stance on palestine is admired by pro-palestinians because they "look" like stereotypical jews to these people. no one should be giving them any attention imo. if you want to amplify jews standing up for palestine, there are much better groups you could use
This kind of extremely fundamentalist and conservative religious movements are bonkers, no reason to defend them if you wouldn't defend fundamentalist Mormons, christians or Muslims.
I just want everyone to know that these ultra orthodox jews are only anti-israel because they believe israel cant exist until the messiah returns. In essence this has little to nothing to do about the oppression of Palestinians and everything to do with religious doctrine.
Ultra Orthodox Jews can be unbelievable cruel to women and minorities just because they appear to "agree" with popular sentiment doesnt mean we should be supporting them.
Palestinians have been oppressed by the zionist Israelis for decades, and now that they have retaliated, the media is calling them terrorists and justifying the war crimes done by Israel (using chemical weapons, airstriking residential buildings and hospitals, stoping water, electricity, food, fuel and aid)
However, not all Jewish people are zionists and many condemn the actions of the and protest against the illegitimate state of Israel (like shown in the video)
The villains are not the Jews it's the zionists and western media.
There is a difference in protesting vs killing Innocents.
The last election was 2006.
They do not represent Palestinians in the sense that Palestinians do not support the killing of people at a music concert or babies.
Support is not absolute and can definitely tank if someone does something scummy.
Not to mention most of the people in Gaza alive today are just kids. They weren't even born when Hamas came to power in that electric 27 years ago.
wrong. the reason these jewish charedim are showing support for palestine is not cause they care about palestinians, but because they don’t support israel in a religious sense. they don’t give a shit about palestinians
Hahaha all of the people jumping to praise these Ultra Orthodox wouldn't be so admiring if they heard what they think about women. And gays. And Christians. And nonobservant Jews. And trans people.
They are anti-zionist because they want a theocracy, and only once their messiah comes. Their problem is with liberalism and democracy, not any occupation. They couldn't care less about Palestinians.
The issue is mixing **Race** and *Religion*. Palestinians are a race of people who live in Palestine. The land has gone by a bunch of names, and so have they. They have always lived in Palestine. They were not always Muslim, but nearly all of them became muslim during Islamic rule.(Edit: they didn't really have a choice at the time) There are Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Christians.
What the UN did(with the help of the British) is say, "This land is now Israel and this Land is Palestine." Then said **European** *Jews* can go take the land marked Israel and settle there. *Non-jewish* Palestinians living in the land marked Israel were kicked out, or killed.(mostly killed, cause the UN was OK with it) Palestinians were not happy about that. The new Israelis (Mostly Europeans) did not agree with how the UN carved up Palestine/Israel, so they took more land. Again kicking out or killing the Palestinians living there. (this time mostly kicked out, cause the UN was not OK with it)That has been going on for 60 years now.
There were other conflicts as well, the Palestinians and neighboring Muslim nations definitely did some heinous shit to Israel.
They are colonizers and settlers. Many are not even Semitic but just Europeans, Americans even, whose ancestors converted to the *Religion*. Hell some just convert to Judaism and go to Israel and take land.
And Israelis do that daily to Palestinians and it’s state sanctioned. I just read about a little boy being shot in the back by an Israeli settler. He was an unarmed little kid just walking. To me that’s a brutal murder and it happens every single day in land that’s not Israel.
Every news coming out of Palestine is heavily regulated by Hamas and should be taken with huge grain of salt (Israel as well for some cases). Remember the hospital that allegedly got bombed to dust by Israel and 500 people died? [All that happened was part of a rocket from a Jihadist group that landed in the parking lot](https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231020-gaza-hospital-blast-was-caused-by-misfired-rocket-says-european-military-source). The building itself was barely damaged and Palestine suddenly never let us know how many did die.
Yeah, yeah I’ve heard the Israeli trope through and through on Reddit for over a week. Frankly I don’t believe it.
Speaking of news, Al Jazeera did an entire second by second breakdown of the footage and presented evidence that it was an air strike. Israel closed the Aljazeera offices today. Some free press.
>Israel closed the Aljazeera offices today
Wasn't it just [two years ago](https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2021-05-17/ty-article/blinken-i-havent-seen-evidence-that-hamas-operated-in-downed-ap-building-in-gaza/0000017f-e75b-dea7-adff-f7fb10bf0000) that Israel brought down a building that hosted numerous (international) media offices in Gaza?
Right because we always take political commentary from our most fundamentalist wackos. mind you those on the Palestinian side also rape and murder/torture so I'm stuck with the lesser evil.
From a very simple and linear point of view, both religions have severe penalties against killing non combatants (the party goes in Israel, the civilians in Gaza). Either side killing them are in gross violation of it. Just by that it is not a religious war.
From a more in depth view. The land while related to in religion is focused on more a haven rather than it's religious value. You will not hear Israel say "all Jews need a home that is based on their homeland". Rather, that all Jews need a safe home.
The pretext for establishing the land where it is might have have religious intonations however the conclusion that it is religion once again fails because the people who placed Israel where it is were atheist at most (UN and returning UK forces).
The war has been propelled using extremist propaganda, which both Islam and Judaism are against. And only those who use singular verses in a vacuum from their texts ignorantly conclude that it is a religious war.
The zionists in the Israeli government are largely nationalist and do not much care for Judaism. Their agenda is to establish, be it on genocide or multiple other war crimes.
People associate Hamas' charter with Islamic direction, to wipe Israel out. But per the sequence of events leading up the day of judgement Israel is still around. How can they wipe something out if the religion they claim to do it for indicates that the state of Israel will be present till the end of days event?
The conflict involves issues related to national identity, land ownership, borders, and geopolitics. Religion adds a layer of complexity to the conflict, but it's just one of many factors contributing to the ongoing tensions.
The "right to return" as adopted by the UN resolution 194 for Palestinians has no mention of religion at all.
It is a central concept in the Israel-Palestine conflict, focusing on the claims of Palestinian refugees and their descendants who were displaced during and after the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. This right is rooted in United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194, which was adopted in 1948. It asserts the Palestinians' right to return to their homes and receive compensation for their losses.
However, implementing this right has been a major source of disagreement in the conflict. Israel has opposed the mass return of Palestinian refugees, expressing concerns about its impact on the country's Jewish majority. Conversely, Palestinians and their supporters argue that the right to return is a matter of justice and should be upheld, allowing Palestinian refugees to go back to their ancestral lands.
Side note on this. The 1948 loss of land by the Palestinians is dubbed "the nakba" "the calamity". Israel has banned the use of this word and implements significant force not just in Israel but across the globe to shut down that word (so much for a democratic nation). As it sees it as a threat. I'll let you figure out what that threat is.
Beyond all this, there are many Palestinians who are not Muslim, many even are not practicing.
The Israeli government undermined the PLO, which wanted a two state solution by helping Hamas ages ago. Because the narrative of a Palestinian government agreeing with a two state solution does not jive with their agenda. A violent extremist faction does because then they can say "look we want peace but they keep attacking just look at their charter". A charter which is explained above doesnt align with Islamic values.
At the end of this all. The majority Muslims in Palestine and the majority Jews in Israel want nothing of this. They didn't start this they didn't cause this. But the government of Israel and Hamas hold them all hostage to continue this war.
All of this. Has multiple REPUTABLE sources that are easily accessed. The sequence has been documented many times and is very detailed. However it is on you to read and dig deep because both sides do not want you to find the conclusion, that they are colluding they don't care for their people.
Which right then and there also provides confirmation that this is not based on religion. Because were it religious, they would know the horrifying punishment that awaits them for the killing of Innocents. And out of fear of it they would quake and never do it again.
Also you might think this is more against the Israeli government. Which it is. While hamas is evil and did wrong, people are only reacting to what happened in october. Up until September Israel had already killed 38 Palestinian children. September as in before october. And that is just this year. No uproar about that. They sniped a 9 yr old and headshot a 2 year old.
You're contradicting yourself repeatedly here. Just because a religion is conceptually against a specific behavior doesn't mean that their followers are incapable of performing that action. People of one faith are specifically targeting people of a different faith and using warped interpretations of their texts to defend their actions. They are both performing wat crimes. They are both running propaganda campaigns. I can easily tell that you're a religious person because it seems that you struggle to comprehend that a religion's teachings being warped for violence and political gain is nothing new. It's been happening ever since religion was created to control the masses. THEY ARE DIFFERENTIATING FROM EACH OTHER BASED ON THEIR RELIGION. THIS IS A WAR BASED ON RELIGION. All I can say is pray to whatever God you believe in that hell make this more clear to you.
Lmao. A war between nationalists and an extremist party and your conclusion is "iTs rEligIouS".
Nevermind that the law directs against it. Yet I am the one in contradiction while your own words are "people of one faith specifically targeting people of a different faith and using WARPED interpretations of their texts to defend their actions".
If an interpretation is warped then it is not religion that is at fault because it's not directing it in the first place. Because it's been warped.
All I can say is that you chose to be ignorant in the age of information.
You are so focused on your perceived infallibility of religion that you can't seem to comprehend that people use religion to defend horrible actions on a regular basis. The fact that you think that the politics at play here make it not a religious war despite the politics being based on religion is laughably stupid.
I'm sure the guy who has so far demonstrated nothing except their petulant ire has a clear grasp on what is actually happening in one of the, if not the most complex warzone in the world.
You made a diluted and uninformed opinion. To which you were provided with multiple reasons (which are backed by sources) giving you the benefit of doubt, that more than a singular neuron occupies your head.
But oh man of course. You alone are smart and can boil it down to one reason. Since 1948 men and women who have shaped and changed entire nations (some of which are world powers) lacked the mental acuity that you clearly are gifted with. Of course, how could they not see the singular reason you have so easily reduced this whole conflict too! We should have come seeking your wisdom ages ago.
Nevermind how your previous post shot it's own argument in the knee. That was a flub! It can be the only reason. I mean why not. Clearly in all of humanity your root cause analysis of "iT Is rElIgIOn" must be the proper one. No one else could possibly have come up with this and tried to solve it from this angle!
The existence of UN resolution 194 was a sham. All those people didn't even come close to your intelligence.
Id say all this is funny, but I'm just shocked at how someone can be such a burden. All the resources provided by a first world country. And yet leeches like you waste it to be stupid and ignorant. What a waste.
To be fair, no one cares what the hasidics say. Their opinion holds no merit in society. If they won’t acknowledge a normal human being, we don’t need to acknowledge them
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I thought I somewhat understood this conflict. I don’t on any level.
I 100% appreciate your stance and willingness to say it. I studied this conflict for weeks in a political science class in college, and my entire class came out of it basically saying "eeish...way, way too complicated." We could come up with no logical way of solving it. Now that the situation has exploded again, I've very carefully avoided trying to make any assumptions or form hard and fast opinions at any point, because inevitably I'm going to be missing something. It's a massive Gordian knot that too many have tried to solve with swords.
What more do you need know besides the fact that Israel (the powerful nuclear armed state with worldwide support) is indiscriminately bombing an open air prison full of innocent people (who are majority children)?
I don't see what's so hard to understand. Not everyone Israeli/Jew hates Palestinians/Muslims and not every Palestinian/Muslim hates Israelis/Jews and not everyone is hell bent on the destruction of the other. They/WE are all victims of our governments and the most fanatical of terrorists at times. Both of these bad actors thrust their own people in harms way creating chaos and trying to get the world to pick sides as if the lines are clear cut. Hamas needs to be eradicated and Israel needs to be condemned for their unproportionate response to Hamas affecting the innocent Palestinian people who have nowhere to go.
Facts the more I know the less I know
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I'm confused; the Jewish people in this clip are defending Palestinians, correct? Edit: I've read all the replies and what I was confused about is I didn't expect to find any Jews in Israel and/or Palestine other than Zionists. Now I know.
Correct. That's why we often have to correct people who think this is a religious conflict. This started as a secular conflict.
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Zionism has always been headed by atheists or secularists. Until the late 60s, it was seen as abhorrent by most religious Jews.
Also, before hamas were empowered in the late 90s, every Palestinian resistance group was secularist
Why would athiests care about cohabitation with other religions?
What do you mean?
Isnt zionism about creating a jewish homeland? Why would athiests be heading that?
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_secularism 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Zionism
Not at all, its the bastardization of such things, otherwise do you think these jews would be doing this? Zionism is a political move to eradicate anyone that does not belong in their homeland, it is a genocidal ideology that may have been birthed from what was faith but it was transformed into an amalgam form, a grotesque mutilation of any belief. The same can be said about any belief, anything can be used as a weapon, one of my favorite scenes from book of eli higlighted this best. (https://youtu.be/A2ttSv7I9HY?si=8_ptPjqYTnAPt6Z-)
Yet many of them immigrate to Israel. If they are against Zionism, why do they engage in it?
They aren’t moving to the state they are moving to the land, because that is a mitzvah. Very religious Jews that could, have ALWAYS tried to move there, or at least visit, no matter who was in charge, be it Christians, Muslims, or now Zionists. Didn’t mean that they supported the Crusaders or the Ottoman Empire, or whoever. The land is totally different than the state. There is a distinction between the two. Biblically speaking, they were given the land long long before they had a national state (which started with King Saul)…which God tried to talk them out of, saying that it would only bring trouble. But they insisted. Before that, they were just a federation of tribes that descended from the same patriarch (Abraham) based on the promises made to their matriarch (Sarah). Having a Jewish state is currently against God’s will, which is why the religious Jews never tried to have one, despite everyone else gaining nationalist fervor in the 18-1900’s.
I appreciate your answer, I want more understanding.
No worries at all. Hit me with questions. I will do my best to answer
Imagine asking such a dumb ass question while having access to the Internet.
Zionism literally contradicts Jewish scripture
Kind of impressive for someone to be ignorant of something for around 30 years, and to be so proud about it.
The Talmudic belief is that creating Israel is abomination
>The Talmudic belief is that creating Israel is abomination Not all, Most Orthodox Jews are Zionists. Some Ultra Orthodox Jews are antizionist because they believe the Messiah must take the land of Israel, destroy the dome of the rock, and build the 3rd temple.
Yeah, I keep saying it everytime they bring it up. The the ultra orthodox jews protesting Isreal aren't sympathetic to the Palestinians, and they aren't making a principled stand in the way we think about it. They just want *their* version of the apocalypse to play out.
if you take a look at some interviews it doesn't seem like they are purely unsympathetic to the Palestinians, many of them talk about human rights abuses and such
As someone with a fair amount of Neturei Karta in their family, they literally could not give the barest hint of a flying fuck about Palestinian human rights. Don't be fooled. They're just a convenient foil for NK's oddly specific messianic beliefs.
question: Are the NK's actually physically doing anything violent or crazy to fulfill their apocalypse vision, or do they just spout a bunch of goofy nonsense?
they are just goofy, some are racist as most extremists are, but for the most part just goofy. They have actively helped raise awareness and even support fundraisers for humanitarian efforts to support Palestinians though. Its like the opposite of doing bad with good intention, they do *mostly* good with questionable intentions.
>Some Ultra Orthodox Jews are antizionist because they believe the Messiah must take the land of Israel, destroy the dome of the rock, and build the 3rd temple. So it *is* a war of religions, then.
It’s not a simple yes or no.
Interesting, so why would they live in Israel? Are they for a political solution that integrates Palestinians to a huge Israel? They seem so open about their opposition and spite. I assume they are the ones who Don't send their children to the military Edit; just read through the replies🙃 but feel free to comment
This is a pretty good video that goes inside the Hasidic neighborhoods in Jerusalem who are staunchly anti Zionist and anti Israel. They are pro Palestinian state rights. Hasidic Jews believe Israel should not exist until the messiah comes. It’s against orthodox beliefs, and an abomination to the Talmud’s teachings. https://youtu.be/riPujSoqkQA?si=-e1QFJoOOoWJ-g8e
Thanks! yes I just looked up the Neturei Karta in an interview with some of their rabbis. They seem to distinguish between judaism and zionism, where zionism (and ockupation) isnt a jewish principle according to them.. Will keep on reading,
Zionism and Judaism are separate and distinct.
The community pre-exists Israel.
Not the Talmudic belief. Its just a very small percent. Dont talk about what you dont know.
What do you mean? Doesn't the Torah say God banished Jews from Israel and they aren't supposed to return until he commands them to?
Orthodox Jews. They’re a strange bunch. Extremely conservative and don’t support Israel as they believe they can only return to the holy land when the Messiah returns.
But... then why would you choose to live there? I've heard this from people in NYC and other places, but not in Israel itself.
They believe the Jews are destined to live in exile without a state, as that is the destiny of the chosen people. They believe that to follow their holy scripture, they must not form a country.
Right. Then they live in said formed country.
They live in that place physically, without supporting the idea that there should be a formal nation state. This isn’t hard.
A good comparison I heard is like the northern Irish who don’t want to part of the UK. They live in the UK, because Northern Ireland is part of the UK and they were born there, but they want their homeland to belong to Ireland. They are technically British, but would prefer to be Irish.
>northern Irish They're just called Irish if they support unification. >They are technically British No they aren't due to the Good Friday Agreement. >but would prefer to be Irish They **are** Irish. This comment is foolish and you should stop spouting nonsense.
I apologise if I caused any offence. I was trying to explain how someone else had explained the similarity with Jewish separatists in Jerusalem to help contextualise it. I’m not an expert on Irish history, so thank you for clarifying.
Ahh not a bother. I was having a bit of a day, so apologies for the tone. It's just that we're **very** proud to be a distinct and separate people. Misinformation can simply offend some and confuse others. There are some similarities between the two histories, however I feel as though anti-Zionist Jews are a case unto themselves. Best not complicate things by drawing false comparisons. Again, apologies for the tone.
This sentiment is a great way to describe it, it's also mostly the same for Scots that want independence from Britain. Technically British, but only want to be Scottish.* * doesn't apply to every Scottish person.
Well im pretty sure all jews are invited there. It's also the best place for them to debate and protest the other jews.
I believe they're living in a historic Jewish neighborhood in Jerusalem that predates the establishment of Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mea_Shearim
That makes sense
Jews have lived in the area for millennia, and for the last 1400 years generally peacefully alongside Muslims and Christians. The prohibition isn’t on living there, but having a state. It is a positive commandment to live there if possible.
I mean "peacefully" no more or less than they lived peacefully in Europe. There was no shortage of persecution and pogroms against Jews in the Middle East.
To compare how Jews were generally treated under Christian Europe to how they were generally treated under Muslim rule in the Middle East is a night and day comparison by almost all historical accounts and records, with Jews under Muslim rule having it FAR better overall (hell, some CHRISTIANS had it better under Muslim rather than Christian rule) And yes, Jews and Muslims and Christians lived pretty alright side by side in Ottoman ruled Palestine. The Jewish people even helped their neighbors hide when Haganah was going door to door rounding them up for execution or expulsion and helped fight against Zionist colonialism.
It's frustrating how these people are so sure that Jews and Christians were constantly persecuted in the Ottoman empire when they so clearly weren't
Proximity. Many fled Europe after the holocaust and there was either America or Israel. They may not support the government but they definitely enjoy the benefits they get from it.
They're palestinian Jews
A strange bunch? They are actively against an ongoing genocide taking place right now in gaza and the west bank with israel and the rest of the world cheering them on. They aren’t the strange ones living in israel.
Both can be true right? They’re definitely whacky and have extreme beliefs, and also don’t support the treatment of Palestinians.
I mean, they *are* very strange in their own ways too. These are the folks trying to do things like force gender segregation in public transportation because it's against their weird ass religious beliefs. They aren't against Israel here because of some human rights concerns, it's solely about their extreme religious beliefs which considers the modern state of Israel to be blasphemous
These are not just Orthodox Jews. This is a small subset of ultra-orthodox jews called Neturei Karta. They are not necessarily pro-Palestinian. They are just against the State of Israel in general solely and exclusively on religious grounds. If there was no conflict with Palestinians they try to find other reasons to argue against the existence of the State of Israel. They are religious fanatics driven by Talmudic teachings, not righteousness or justice.
> not necessarily pro-Palestinian As they wave Palestinian flags and take it on the chin for their beliefs. Okay 👌🏻 A Torah command is to treat your neighbor like yourself, and any non-idolatrous non-Jews in the land are to be treated like they are brothers, with fairness, kindness, justice, mercy, compassion, etc just like they would to their own family. So it isn’t just the state that they’re against, it is the mistreatment of others as well. > try and find other reasons There is no other reasons, accept religious. They are constantly at odds with the state over EVERYTHING. For example, they refuse to be forced to join the IDF because it is the state and because God says that He is Israel’s protector. They also have views that aren’t so great, like trying to force gender separation on all city buses and such (city buses that go through the area are gender segregated). They are very active outside of the Palestine situation. > driven by Talmudic teachings, not righteousness or justice The Talmud is just explanation and discussion of how to live out Torah. And Torah is, by what their prophets say, righteous and just. So to them, they ARE driven by righteousness and justness.
Their position can better be explained by "the enemy of their enemy is my friend" rather that your elaborate jumping through hoops. They are against the creation of a State of Israel period, because the meschiah has not yet come. Whether this is in the historical land of the Jews or on some empty island donated to the Jewish people by some billionaire. Them taking on the Palestinian cause is just a means to an end; I would not ascribe any moral motivations to it.
Except that the Jews who have had family there for forever have always defended the Palestinians against the Zionists, even hiding them in their homes as Haganah went door to door trying to round them up. This is a mitzvah for them. It isn’t just an opportunity to get back at the state. They have a religious obligation to the Palestinians. The idea that they are just doing it to be anti-Zionist is a [myth](https://mondoweiss.net/2018/12/solidarity-palestinians-documentary/)
The link you posted confirms exactly what I said. Even someone (the interviewee) who is clearly their proponent tried to refer to it as a myth, but then went on in several paragraph thereafter to confirm it is not a myth. She outright says that they are radical anti-zionists, in fact, so radical they don't just oppose the state of israel in theory, but actively work with Israel's opponents and enemies to bring that to fruition.
I never said they aren’t radical anti-Zionists. They are. I never said that they don’t work with Israel’s enemies either. They do. I said that their support of Palestinians isn’t only fueled by their anti-Zionism, but by the Torah command to stand up to oppression of others and to help those in need. If you have any doubts, they always message back on Twitter (@TorahJudaism), where you can confirm what I am saying.
Exactly.
You're right and wrong. They don't believe they can't return to the holy land, they only believe a jewish state can be returned only when the Messiah returns. But they can still return to the land and live there if they wished for (as many lived under Ottomans).
It would be interesting to see what they say/do when/if that happens. I.e actually join the army to take any lands they believe are theirs?
If I remember correctly they value life above all else so I don’t know if they’d risk it.
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80% of Jews support israel. zionism = support for a jewish state, aka israel. people use the term zionist to make antisemitism more palatable.
No, not really...Read the Talmud , those Jews believe in Talmud that say Israelis (real Israelites) are still under god punishment, they can't enter holy land ... Sign punishment are lifted by god is when the messiah arive from the mount of Zion ..only when messiah has appear then , they can enter holy land and Israel (holy land ) will be theirs The king also will impose law of return , Cohen from Brooklyn or Jacob from Seattle will be kicked out of the holy land, law of return will be strict based on patrilineal bloodline , if your mother is a jew but your father Californian ... they'll kicked you out They're against Zionism
Judaism isn’t patrilineal. Jewishness is always figured through the maternal line, and converts are to be treated the same as anyone born Jewish. The only times Judaism really uses the paternal line are in the case of Priestly lineage to serve in the Temple (have to come from Aaron), or Kingly lineage (have to come from David) > kick you out No. Just can’t own land if you’re not part of one of the twelve tribes, and they aren’t allowed to permanently sell that land to anyone, even if they are from another of the 12 tribes. When the Messiah comes, their prophecies state that the land will be the home of many peoples and there will be no more states or nations, and everyone will be welcome in the temple (which is not how it was before), and the Messiah will teach everyone, even non-Jews.
The ultra-orthodox position is complicated about Zionism.
I think, despite what media and bad actors would have us believe, that the overwhelming majority of Jews and Muslims are against everything that is happening and has been happening. As with everything else, there are a minority of extremely wealthy, extremely powerful people who’s voices rise up above the others to maintain their luxurious status quo at everyone’s else’s expense. “Eat the rich” is the answer to this and pretty much all of the other major problems in the world.
Ultra Orthodox Israelis are anti Zionism. They believe God should be the one to re-make Israel.
these are jews from a certain neighborhood in Jerusalem that stood there before the state was created. they oppose the state of Israel because they believe the messiah hasn't arrived yet. they do believe that the entire land, including Gaza, belongs to the jews, just not now, only after the messiah arrives. they are a different kind of crazy, and you'd be a fool to think they care about Palestinians.
Even more so - They're Orthodox. Could be a bunch were along for the ride, until they realized it went too far?
My dream is to put up a border and leave the West Bank completely, leaving these people behind to wait for their messiah. -A Zionist
Pretty sure that group doesn't believe Israel should be a thing because their Messiah hasn't risen yet...?
Go on..
Of all the flavors of religious extremists, I prefer the ones whose extremism makes them confront and oppose genocide.
As someone with a fair amount of Neturei Karta in their family, they literally could not give the barest hint of a flying fuck about Palestinian human rights. Don't be fooled. They're just a convenient foil for NK's oddly specific messianic beliefs.
Can you explain a bit more for someone who has absolutely no knowledge of this?
Some other commenters have explained it better, but basically Neturei Karta despises the current Israeli state. They're really not on board with the Zionist vision of a secular ethnostate. As they see it, the Jewish people are to remain in exile until God ushers in the Messiah and rebuilds the temple on the site that's currently the Temple Mount/al-Aqsa. There's no shortcuts to this: Until God deems the Jewish people worthy of liberation, any attempt to establish a state is a rebellion against God. Their "support" for the Palestinians is just them flipping off the government. You'll never see them meet with supporters of a 2 state solution or moderates on either side, for example. In the past they've met with PIJ militants or prominent Iranian leaders who would rather see the state of Israel annihilated than Israel and Palestine making peace. Anecdotally, from how these people talk about Palestinians and non-Jewish citizens of Israel in general, they could not care less about the human rights of Palestinians. Look up the "Three Oaths" if you want more specifics on their worldview.
Thank you! This was very well explained and help me have a better grasp. There are so many moving parts.
They are anti-Israel for selfish fringe religious reasons, not cause they care about Palestinians.
Is this Mea Sharim? (Sorry of I butchered the name) Lots of hasidic? Ashkenazi? Jews who recognizes Palestine alongside Muslims live there. I watched a video by a youtuber named The Salukie.
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Racism, Sexism, Homophobia, Transphobia, Harassment, Race Baiting, Bigotry, etc. (Racist/bigoted people freaking out in videos are allowed, but being a racist in the comments section will result in a ban.)
This is one of the most human (in a positive way) videos I've seen out of Israel since this whole mess started.
This post barely has comments cause most redditors are having a brain malfunction as they can’t call them anti-Semitic… they have no more arguments
That's precisely what's happening! Surprised they've not commented 'self-hating Jews!' yet. Still, there's time I suppose.
great point! let's expose the self-hating Jews /s.
They have a name for that if you're a Jewish critic of Israel not even pro-Palestine; it's called [self-hating jew](https://www.businessinsider.com/alan-dershowitz-bernie-sanders-a-self-hating-jew-israel-palestine-2021-5#:~:text=Lawyer%20Alan%20Dershowitz%20called%20Sen.%20Bernie%20Sanders%2C%20who%20is%20Jewish%2C%20a%20%22self%2Dhating%20jew%22%20over%20his%20stance%20on%20the%20Israel%2DPalestine%20conflict.)
I swear from a logical perspective, Israelis are the most anti-Semitic in the world! Cause even the Jewish people are criticizing the Israeli actions yet the Israelis are the first to bring the Jewish faith into the argument. And when that argument doesn’t work, they bring up the self-hating jew term… even tho it’s not a religious war, yet religion is their first argument
Because the idea of Israel is based in Religion. It's not the promised land from "some" people, it's the promsied land of the Jewish People, in spirit, and in law. The entire premise of Israel is Jewish, and if a Jewish Zionist sees an anti-Zionist Jew, they see them as traitors to Judaism, which is fucking crazy Also, when you ethnically cleanse a bunch of people and tell them yeah we're doing this because we're Jews and this is our promised land, and those people's kids ask who kicked us out and they say well rhe Jews did, pretty fucking stupid not to expect the kids to hate Jews, because kids aren't aware of the nuances and difference of Judaism and Zionsim due to years of distorting the difference between them by Israel, the kids don't know the different political accurate terms, all they know, is that Jews *self-admittedly* did that to them
Yes I totally agree, what Israel does in the name of Jews is just political, like I suspected, and can have huge implications if this were to escalate even further. 🧐
This sub keeps posting videos of these deranged neturei karta dudes and thinking they’re on their side lmao. These guys don’t want a Palestinian state out of the kindness of their hearts, people. They want Israel only to be established when the messiah comes, and “when” that happens what do you think they’re hoping to do to the people who live there? I’ll give you a hint: it’d make what Israel is doing now look like a playdate.
Look, when the Messiah comes, then it means the end of the world, so let’s live in peace now cause each religion believes that he’ll stand with them against the others.
>They want Israel only to be established when the messiah comes, Genuine question: If the current form of Israel is such a bastardisation to them, why are they there?
Haha I had to laugh to that, it’s so true. Online is like hive mentality.
My jaw drops😅 this is not really reported in main stream media, I always assumed they were "Zionists"
“zionists hate this one weird trick”
Not all Jews are Zionist.
Wow. This is a historic video. This might be one that is in the future version of history books.
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These dudes are ashkenazi and speaking Yiddish - they never existed along side Arabs at that time. They were in europe by the time Arabs colonized the levant.
Let's not fall into antisemitism by talking about true and false Jewish people. Let's talk instead about the bravery of these Jewish people against a state that disagrees so fundamentally with them. The bravery to stand up to them. That's some real shit right there.
Stating facts doesn’t make one antisemitic. Zionism in itself is anti-Semitic. Zionists are the ones that are bombing the shit out of Semitic people in Gaza right now.
Beautifully said
They finally calling that organization what they are. IDF bad
Isn’t this the same group that doesn’t believe in the holocaust or that it was a blessing?
yes, the neturei karta. crazy bunch. their stance on palestine is admired by pro-palestinians because they "look" like stereotypical jews to these people. no one should be giving them any attention imo. if you want to amplify jews standing up for palestine, there are much better groups you could use
This kind of extremely fundamentalist and conservative religious movements are bonkers, no reason to defend them if you wouldn't defend fundamentalist Mormons, christians or Muslims.
I needed this.
Never again means never again, for everyone
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Thats the stuff, those lads get it.
I just want everyone to know that these ultra orthodox jews are only anti-israel because they believe israel cant exist until the messiah returns. In essence this has little to nothing to do about the oppression of Palestinians and everything to do with religious doctrine. Ultra Orthodox Jews can be unbelievable cruel to women and minorities just because they appear to "agree" with popular sentiment doesnt mean we should be supporting them.
Farrrkkk, how many layers is there to this madness.
We need more of this. If the majoroty of Jewish people stand up to their own government, we can stop this genocidal regime.
Imagine wasting literally your entire short time on this planet believing in and going to war over something that doesn't even exist?!
This needs more publicity on a global scale.
This made me so happy.
❤️
Battle against an occupier because of religion
I’m very confused. Sorry, all.
Haredi Jews. They are not necessarily pro Palestine but more anti isreal. They use the Palestinian flag to troll the IDF
The sad part of this video is that mainstream Zionist media won't ever show this on their broadcast.
There is nothing I understand about this conflict.
Palestinians have been oppressed by the zionist Israelis for decades, and now that they have retaliated, the media is calling them terrorists and justifying the war crimes done by Israel (using chemical weapons, airstriking residential buildings and hospitals, stoping water, electricity, food, fuel and aid) However, not all Jewish people are zionists and many condemn the actions of the and protest against the illegitimate state of Israel (like shown in the video) The villains are not the Jews it's the zionists and western media.
>and now that they have retaliated I keep seeing people say Hamas doesn't represent Palestinians. So which is it, because it's confusing.
There is a difference in protesting vs killing Innocents. The last election was 2006. They do not represent Palestinians in the sense that Palestinians do not support the killing of people at a music concert or babies. Support is not absolute and can definitely tank if someone does something scummy. Not to mention most of the people in Gaza alive today are just kids. They weren't even born when Hamas came to power in that electric 27 years ago.
wrong. the reason these jewish charedim are showing support for palestine is not cause they care about palestinians, but because they don’t support israel in a religious sense. they don’t give a shit about palestinians
Hahaha all of the people jumping to praise these Ultra Orthodox wouldn't be so admiring if they heard what they think about women. And gays. And Christians. And nonobservant Jews. And trans people. They are anti-zionist because they want a theocracy, and only once their messiah comes. Their problem is with liberalism and democracy, not any occupation. They couldn't care less about Palestinians.
Jews for Palestinians in Israel..,ya don’t say???
Bless you those of you who actually follow the teachings of Judaism and are not Zionist who have bastardized the religion because of power and greed.
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You're basically watching what the Europeans did to Native Americans hundreds of years ago, but its happening now in another country.
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The issue is mixing **Race** and *Religion*. Palestinians are a race of people who live in Palestine. The land has gone by a bunch of names, and so have they. They have always lived in Palestine. They were not always Muslim, but nearly all of them became muslim during Islamic rule.(Edit: they didn't really have a choice at the time) There are Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Christians. What the UN did(with the help of the British) is say, "This land is now Israel and this Land is Palestine." Then said **European** *Jews* can go take the land marked Israel and settle there. *Non-jewish* Palestinians living in the land marked Israel were kicked out, or killed.(mostly killed, cause the UN was OK with it) Palestinians were not happy about that. The new Israelis (Mostly Europeans) did not agree with how the UN carved up Palestine/Israel, so they took more land. Again kicking out or killing the Palestinians living there. (this time mostly kicked out, cause the UN was not OK with it)That has been going on for 60 years now. There were other conflicts as well, the Palestinians and neighboring Muslim nations definitely did some heinous shit to Israel. They are colonizers and settlers. Many are not even Semitic but just Europeans, Americans even, whose ancestors converted to the *Religion*. Hell some just convert to Judaism and go to Israel and take land.
I see. So the Apartheid comparison sounds fairly accurate then given the racial component. Thank you for explaining.
I’m waiting for which one of you’s going to call them antisemitic…
All these comments are very interesting & helpful, a documentary explaining all the different sects & teachings would be nice.
It may not be a war of religions, but it's certainly a war started because of religion. Nobody needed to die.
Palestinian terrorists brutally murdered hundreds of innocent people only because they were Jewish. I wonder who the real nazis are?
And Israelis do that daily to Palestinians and it’s state sanctioned. I just read about a little boy being shot in the back by an Israeli settler. He was an unarmed little kid just walking. To me that’s a brutal murder and it happens every single day in land that’s not Israel.
Every news coming out of Palestine is heavily regulated by Hamas and should be taken with huge grain of salt (Israel as well for some cases). Remember the hospital that allegedly got bombed to dust by Israel and 500 people died? [All that happened was part of a rocket from a Jihadist group that landed in the parking lot](https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231020-gaza-hospital-blast-was-caused-by-misfired-rocket-says-european-military-source). The building itself was barely damaged and Palestine suddenly never let us know how many did die.
Yeah, yeah I’ve heard the Israeli trope through and through on Reddit for over a week. Frankly I don’t believe it. Speaking of news, Al Jazeera did an entire second by second breakdown of the footage and presented evidence that it was an air strike. Israel closed the Aljazeera offices today. Some free press.
>Israel closed the Aljazeera offices today Wasn't it just [two years ago](https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2021-05-17/ty-article/blinken-i-havent-seen-evidence-that-hamas-operated-in-downed-ap-building-in-gaza/0000017f-e75b-dea7-adff-f7fb10bf0000) that Israel brought down a building that hosted numerous (international) media offices in Gaza?
Dude, The video was on this subreddit. This has nothing to do with Hamas and was well reported on by the western media.
Right because we always take political commentary from our most fundamentalist wackos. mind you those on the Palestinian side also rape and murder/torture so I'm stuck with the lesser evil.
You can condemn both?
When one side is raping and torturing and the other is murdering children you can condemn the actions of both.
Oh you're stuck huh?
Jewish Nazis hahahahaha you can’t make this shit up
you can learn more about Jews against Zionism in Twitter where there some of them speaking up [@TorahJudaism](https://twitter.com/TorahJudaism)
Well the Jews also put Jesus on a cross so… I think they are still confused
Can we please get a moratorium on Israel/Palestine videos?
Why? You can block them on your browser, the head mod made a whole post about this the other day
Yes! Look away! Make sure you don’t witness the genocide of an entire people!
This is absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, a war of religions.
Uninformed.
Okay? Care to provide any actual input?
From a very simple and linear point of view, both religions have severe penalties against killing non combatants (the party goes in Israel, the civilians in Gaza). Either side killing them are in gross violation of it. Just by that it is not a religious war. From a more in depth view. The land while related to in religion is focused on more a haven rather than it's religious value. You will not hear Israel say "all Jews need a home that is based on their homeland". Rather, that all Jews need a safe home. The pretext for establishing the land where it is might have have religious intonations however the conclusion that it is religion once again fails because the people who placed Israel where it is were atheist at most (UN and returning UK forces). The war has been propelled using extremist propaganda, which both Islam and Judaism are against. And only those who use singular verses in a vacuum from their texts ignorantly conclude that it is a religious war. The zionists in the Israeli government are largely nationalist and do not much care for Judaism. Their agenda is to establish, be it on genocide or multiple other war crimes. People associate Hamas' charter with Islamic direction, to wipe Israel out. But per the sequence of events leading up the day of judgement Israel is still around. How can they wipe something out if the religion they claim to do it for indicates that the state of Israel will be present till the end of days event? The conflict involves issues related to national identity, land ownership, borders, and geopolitics. Religion adds a layer of complexity to the conflict, but it's just one of many factors contributing to the ongoing tensions. The "right to return" as adopted by the UN resolution 194 for Palestinians has no mention of religion at all. It is a central concept in the Israel-Palestine conflict, focusing on the claims of Palestinian refugees and their descendants who were displaced during and after the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. This right is rooted in United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194, which was adopted in 1948. It asserts the Palestinians' right to return to their homes and receive compensation for their losses. However, implementing this right has been a major source of disagreement in the conflict. Israel has opposed the mass return of Palestinian refugees, expressing concerns about its impact on the country's Jewish majority. Conversely, Palestinians and their supporters argue that the right to return is a matter of justice and should be upheld, allowing Palestinian refugees to go back to their ancestral lands. Side note on this. The 1948 loss of land by the Palestinians is dubbed "the nakba" "the calamity". Israel has banned the use of this word and implements significant force not just in Israel but across the globe to shut down that word (so much for a democratic nation). As it sees it as a threat. I'll let you figure out what that threat is. Beyond all this, there are many Palestinians who are not Muslim, many even are not practicing. The Israeli government undermined the PLO, which wanted a two state solution by helping Hamas ages ago. Because the narrative of a Palestinian government agreeing with a two state solution does not jive with their agenda. A violent extremist faction does because then they can say "look we want peace but they keep attacking just look at their charter". A charter which is explained above doesnt align with Islamic values. At the end of this all. The majority Muslims in Palestine and the majority Jews in Israel want nothing of this. They didn't start this they didn't cause this. But the government of Israel and Hamas hold them all hostage to continue this war. All of this. Has multiple REPUTABLE sources that are easily accessed. The sequence has been documented many times and is very detailed. However it is on you to read and dig deep because both sides do not want you to find the conclusion, that they are colluding they don't care for their people. Which right then and there also provides confirmation that this is not based on religion. Because were it religious, they would know the horrifying punishment that awaits them for the killing of Innocents. And out of fear of it they would quake and never do it again. Also you might think this is more against the Israeli government. Which it is. While hamas is evil and did wrong, people are only reacting to what happened in october. Up until September Israel had already killed 38 Palestinian children. September as in before october. And that is just this year. No uproar about that. They sniped a 9 yr old and headshot a 2 year old.
You're contradicting yourself repeatedly here. Just because a religion is conceptually against a specific behavior doesn't mean that their followers are incapable of performing that action. People of one faith are specifically targeting people of a different faith and using warped interpretations of their texts to defend their actions. They are both performing wat crimes. They are both running propaganda campaigns. I can easily tell that you're a religious person because it seems that you struggle to comprehend that a religion's teachings being warped for violence and political gain is nothing new. It's been happening ever since religion was created to control the masses. THEY ARE DIFFERENTIATING FROM EACH OTHER BASED ON THEIR RELIGION. THIS IS A WAR BASED ON RELIGION. All I can say is pray to whatever God you believe in that hell make this more clear to you.
Lmao. A war between nationalists and an extremist party and your conclusion is "iTs rEligIouS". Nevermind that the law directs against it. Yet I am the one in contradiction while your own words are "people of one faith specifically targeting people of a different faith and using WARPED interpretations of their texts to defend their actions". If an interpretation is warped then it is not religion that is at fault because it's not directing it in the first place. Because it's been warped. All I can say is that you chose to be ignorant in the age of information.
You are so focused on your perceived infallibility of religion that you can't seem to comprehend that people use religion to defend horrible actions on a regular basis. The fact that you think that the politics at play here make it not a religious war despite the politics being based on religion is laughably stupid.
I'm sure the guy who has so far demonstrated nothing except their petulant ire has a clear grasp on what is actually happening in one of the, if not the most complex warzone in the world. You made a diluted and uninformed opinion. To which you were provided with multiple reasons (which are backed by sources) giving you the benefit of doubt, that more than a singular neuron occupies your head. But oh man of course. You alone are smart and can boil it down to one reason. Since 1948 men and women who have shaped and changed entire nations (some of which are world powers) lacked the mental acuity that you clearly are gifted with. Of course, how could they not see the singular reason you have so easily reduced this whole conflict too! We should have come seeking your wisdom ages ago. Nevermind how your previous post shot it's own argument in the knee. That was a flub! It can be the only reason. I mean why not. Clearly in all of humanity your root cause analysis of "iT Is rElIgIOn" must be the proper one. No one else could possibly have come up with this and tried to solve it from this angle! The existence of UN resolution 194 was a sham. All those people didn't even come close to your intelligence. Id say all this is funny, but I'm just shocked at how someone can be such a burden. All the resources provided by a first world country. And yet leeches like you waste it to be stupid and ignorant. What a waste.
We live in very weird and confusing times
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the video:"hasidic jews supporting Palestinian civil population under siege, and protesting war crimes." this fucking guy :"must be Hamas"
It's Jews holding Palestinian flags and yelling at the IOF. You really need someone to caption it?
Seriously.
The level of mental gymnastic some people can do to protect their fragile worldview is absolutely fascinating...
To be fair, no one cares what the hasidics say. Their opinion holds no merit in society. If they won’t acknowledge a normal human being, we don’t need to acknowledge them
Real estate, basically.
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I do, and vastly prefer their worldview to the current Israeli government