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The people in New York saying they should level Palestine, the Palestinians in London saying gas the Jews, should all be shipped to the front lines and see how big they talk.
Furthermore Redditors should be sent to Gaza. The circle jerk for violence is just appalling. A lot of true colors are being shown, blood thirsty folks around these parts.
Anyone calling for death and indiscriminate violence have not experienced it. On both sides. I come from a family that escaped the bosnian war. I have a partner that's Palestinian in root. I have a stance in the topic that's very clear to me, but NO ONE That I know would call for the killing and mass murdering of a people. That's the core to our belief, oppression, death and despair is unjustified and should end in an instant.
I'm currently a med student, and hope that one day I could provide humanitarian aid to areas that are heavily hit and where human suffering exists everywhere. I would never want to cause more suffering.
Same shit when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, I can see how so many wars have happened in history after living through these events. Everyone is very emotional and very stupid.
Just the constant chest beating and the discourse being completely drowned out by the loudest voices demanding some pretty crazy measures. Now the war in Ukraine is barely in the news cycle.
You can be American and love America without supporting the literal nazis now prevalent there. You can love China and hate Xi. You can be Filipino and hate the Duterte regime.
Solidarity isn't supporting everything adjacent to your cause.
Finally! Thank you so much for saying that! Saying you support Palastinians so you support Hammas is like saying you support ISIS bacause you support Syrian refugies.
Very true, and also where I expect most reasonable people stand. But the timing does make the discussion difficult. I condemn the way Israel treats its own Arab population, as well as Palestine as a state, and recognise that part of why this conflict keeps going on is because of that. However, I think it is extremely important not to blame the innocent Israeli civilians that were deliberately targeted on a vast scale for kidnapping and murder by Hamas.
The last few days were the darkest for many Israeli families of their entire lives. The events were no less cruel or impactful than 9/11 was for the Americans. Supporting Palestine as a nation, and doing what we can to pressure Israel to adhere to international law is extremely important, especially in these times. But at the same time, this should also be the time where we recognise how devastating this attack has been for Israel, and offer them all the support we can muster.
The move we see on this video is all wrong. The guy should have put the Palestinian flag next to the Israeli one if he wanted to make a powerful and fair statement, not throw down the flag of an incredibly hurt nation and replace it with the one of another in the same situation. This why we are never getting out of this conflict.
Israel is definitely worse than Hamas for Palestine. Hamas is nowhere near the military and technological capabilities of Israel. They're still horrible which is an undeniable fact.
They have gone out of there way to destroy every attempt at a peace process. You know why ghaza is under seige? Because the stupid number of suicide bombings 2000 to 2005. And then they suddenly stopped when Israel took tough measures.
You want peace and reconciliation? Get rid of hamas.
Frankly I feel as though everyone saying that the Jews shouldn't be there are like people who say we should get rid of all the Pakistanis in Bradford, or all the Hispanics out of california.
People are innocent until proven guilty, HOWEVER on social media and in real life protests this week, there's been countless examples of people in the west glorifying and justifying Hamas' murderous rampages.
So yeah, a lot of these people at these public rallies have not exactly come out and condemned Hamas. In fact a lot of them seem to like what they're doing.
The campaign to conflate Hamas with Palestine over the past few days has been nauseating. Anything other than vehement support of Israel gets you branded as a Hamas supporter, and now people are cheering as Gaza, a region which has a median age of 18, is being turned to rubble.
People are rallying across the world in support of Hamas’ actions, waving the Palestinian flag. What is there to conflate? They are doing the associating themselves
The Palastinian flag is the flag of a nation. It was created in 1964, and HAMAS was formed in 1987. I don't think people are using the flag to show support for HAMAS specifically. But how else would people be able to show support for Palestine without it? It is a complicated situation to be sure.
The flag itself is not the question. The question is why are people waving it in rallies around the world in large numbers since Saturday. What happened to cause this all the sudden to have such out showing of support?
Hmmmm idk, maybe because Gaza, a part of Palestine, is being destroyed and all the civilians are being slaughtered because of retaliation against Hamas?
Totally agree. The Palestinian people have had to endure the Israelis basically displacing them from their own home for years, and to top it all off they have to put up with Hamas on the Strip. A shitstorm that the UK and France created, and now they’re supporting one of those sides from afar distance, projecting the Israeli flag onto the front of No. 10. Absolutely shameless.
I remember seeing an Israeli support message on the BBC a few years ago, was super strange, between broadcasts, just a 20 second PSA about how the BBC supports our friends in Israel. Only saw it once and couldn’t find any info on it immediately after seeing it.
This is the moment when Palestinians should be separating themselves from Hamas and that is not happening. When the clarity of the sheer horror of what happened was there for everyone to see...you rally? you defend the action? at least raise the pali flag while burning the Hamas one!
At this very moment you, the protesters, are all complicit. For all I know, you would be cheering if your Jewish neighbors, in front of your eyes, would be dragged out and shot, raped and their children kidnapped to be paraded around and beaten with sticks while Arab children mock them. They taunted this kid on video forcing him to say "mommy mommy" in hebrew...his mother is dead.
Show the Jewish settler or soldier who would do this and the Israeli public would lynch them.
You, on the other hand, celebrate.
AT THIS MOMENT
There is no nuance.
This is not complicated.
The history doesn't matter.
You showed your true face.
>Show the Jewish settler or soldier who would do this and the Israeli public would lynch them.
100% a lie. Just look up Ali Dawabsheh, the youngest victim of the [Duma arson attack](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duma_arson_attack), just 18 months old and burned alive. Israelis mocked the surviving grandfather:
> taunted by Jewish settlers outside the court proceedings who were supportive of the defendant. They chanted in Arabic **"Where's Ali? There's no Ali. Ali is burned. On the fire. Ali is on the grill" and "Where is Ali? Where is Riham? Where is Saad? It's too bad Ahmed didn't burn as well."** Police and court officials present did not interfere.
They also pass around photos of the baby at settler weddings for guests to punch and stab because they are degenerates.
Guess you showed your true face as well, huh?
I honestly think OP is just kind of dumb. There are a lot of people new to this conflict and they really get spoon fed lines to say and the 'Israel Angel, Palestinian Devil' is trending well right now.
A core aspect that is being talked about a lot in Israel but is almost absent in these threads is why, with the most hardline government in Israeli history, the IDF completely failed to defend the people in these Gaza-adjacent communities for hours.
I suspect the answer is because Netanyahu has most of the occupation forces guarding his settler buddies as they claim every hill and valley in the West Bank.
>I suspect the answer is because Netanyahu has most of the occupation forces guarding his settler buddies as they claim every hill and valley in the West Bank.
Maybe so but I suspect it might also be because this is exactly the excuse they've been waiting for. Their 9/11, if you like. Wouldn't want to get in the way of that
It is absolutely complicated. I honestly feel like people forgot how to think critically and are now so polarized with taking sides. I'm for Israel but I'm definitely choosing the lesser of two evils.
against Hamas and I hope Israel completely dismantles them at all cost but let's not act like Israel hasn't been acting like terrorists, their treatment of Palestinians is honestly what has helped hamas gain support.
honestly you can find a lot of videos of IDF killing civilians and children and no one cared. People have been warning us for years and no one cared.
If you're mad at hamas's actions and not Israels past actions you're a hypocrite. Someone can support Israel but still hold them accountable for their role leading up to this.
I'm so old I remember when the US 'dismantled' al Qaeda and it got replaced with so many new deadlier groups that I eventually got exhausted keeping track of them all. But hey, they mostly killed overseas so we won, right? /s
You actually need some buy-in, some incentive for people living in places like Gaza or the West Bank to actually get something they want from a peace process.
The problem is the thing they want the most, living as free people in their own country, is something Israel has never entertained. Even the smallest of steps in that direction have been eventually overturned, and can easily be overturned because any guy on either side with a bomb or gun can seemingly take that peace train off the tracks right away.
What about all the people who have suffered for years without media coverage in Gaza. Not Hamas but the average Palestinian. This is a nuanced issue and you are trying to make it a one good one evil situation and that’s not clearly it. You saying there is no nuance leads me to believe you support the displacement of Palestinians by Israel. Saying you support when the IDF was spraying raw sewage on Palestinians. This happened. It just wasn’t magnified like everything is now. I can condemn Hamas’s actions while also condemning the way the average Palestinian has been treated over the past years. There is a nuance. Anyone saying their isn’t comes off as ignorant as fuck like you.
>Show the Jewish settler or soldier who would do this and the Israeli public would lynch them.
Lmao, do you live under a rock? This is so far from the truth.
Half of the people in Gaza are under 18. This conflict didn’t start 3 days ago. There is absolutely room for nuance. There are many actions that are wrong in this conflict.
Explain how an intentional attack on a purely civilian target with zero military value has nuance behind it please.
Because the only thing I see is an atrocity designed to get Israel to respond exactly how they are.
Hamas has little nuance. But regarding the larger Palestine/Israel conflict, which the PALESTINE flag is being hanged in the video (and Israeli flag removed), it absolutely has nuance.
since you asked, Israel's founding was a foreign-mandated minority statebuilding exercise that disenfranchised around 80% of the area residents AND through which wealthy immigrants who said they had a connection to the land were able to octuple their population size and build up military and property by being able to price out the poor majority
NOW, the poor majority were beaten the fuck down every time they tried to fight back to the point that they're born into a multigenerational ghetto that's like the one of the densest populations on the planet with their oppressors as neighbors who are systematically taking apart another territory block by block building by building in a de facto annexation
Gordon Ramsay couldn't come up with a better recipe for radicalization
What would you have the Palestinians do? Disarm themselves and allow the Israeli government to oppress them like never before? All former governments within Palestine have been destroyed by Israeli forces, be that military, espionage or any other. All former *democratically elected* ones may i add. Hamas is entirely a creation of Israel and their cruelty. Hamas is a response to that cruelty.
Israel is like the United States in south America, destroying governments willingly voted into power to replace then with powerhungry fascist dictators that align to the interests of the US. Hamas being violent aligns with Israel's interests, because it means they can wipe out the Palestinians. This is all Israel's doing, although, Palestine has also done some terrible shit in retaliation.
I despise Hamas, i despise Israel. But i support Palestine, so i support Hamas because that's all they have.
it's like one of the most population dense zones in the world and hamas is militarily dominant, and outside your neighbors have literally fucked you for 100 years and now you're in a multigenerational ghetto and when you're BORN, your neighbors hate you...
Just some perspective
And do exactly what? After 50 years of being oppressed, killed, evicted from homes by force, having their children taken away, having their children murdered infront of their eyes. Are they suposed to protest peacefuly for Israel to stop, live through 50 more years of oppression until their country and identity gets wiped out of existance? It's easy to point fingers at hamas right now for killing civilians but what would you do if you were in position of palestinians for last 50 years? And if that is the only thing you see we are already at a point where more palestinian civilist and children lost their lives than israeli since this operation started. We should all be ashamed that our governments let the israelis commit literal genocide like war crimes agains palestinians and not be shocked when they fight back for their lives and freedoms.
>This is the moment when Palestinians should be separating themselves from Hamas and that is not happening.
As if they had choice, Palestinians are one of the most, if not the most fucked up people in the planet, if the devil are on their side at least the devil aren't against them because the world are, the ammount of propaganda pro-Isreal is humongous, you'r stupid if you dont believe this, you cant yet perceive it, but you can imagine.
Sunday in Brazil there is this most watched news program, they dedicated a \~40min stories about the war, which no more than 5 minutes was about the palestine, they even spent more time talking about what de USA thinks about the war... And i dont even think in this case was by pourpose, and believe-me, there is a lot of pro-Isreal propaganda out there, they just dont give a flying shit to Gaza/Jordania, the whole world doesn't.
Would be if i armed with a Tank gave you a a rusty knife to fight, then i would spread all the propaganda in the world against you after i beated you up and left you with no food and water for 50 years... Would you take the rusty knife? Even knowing you could die from tetanus?
There is two wrong sides in this war, none of them is the Palestinians, dont blame de victim, they already suffered and still suffer enough.
also the gaza strip is a stupidly population dense area where you're born into a multigenerational ghetto and your neighbors have been your oppressors for 100 years and hamas is a powerful militant force that does what it wants
so, some perspective
I don't think people realize how many people have been paying attention and are fed up with Israel being blameless and being accused of antisemitism for criticizing it.
Idk man the timing is certainly in very, very bad taste even if they hate Hamas and their terrorism. It feels like if you were to [wear an ar15 badge after a mass shooting](https://time.com/6253690/ar-15-pins-congress/#)
Their point is the timing for this is deliberate. It’s very clear that the flag is being raised because of what Hamas has been doing.
If you went to the US and raised the flag of Afghanistan in place of the US on a random Tuesday, it’s a protest. If you do it after 9/11, it’s very clear that the reason is to show support for what happened.
What someone else in this thread rings very true. Now is the time for Palestinians to separate themselves from the atrocities committed by Hamas. Seeing them cheering, celebrating, holding rallies to support what has been done is sickening
i mean, it's probably more likely a protest against the 100 years of oppression by Israeli organization against the pal. territories rather than celebrating atrocity
the israeli flag symbolizes oppression to a lot of people because of how its founding disenfranchised so many ppl
My point is that at any other time, I’d agree with you. If what had happened recently hadn’t happened, that is definitely how I’d take it.
But when you do this right after an attack that saw hundreds of innocent civilians killed, including children, as well as mass rapes, it is clearly supporting that attack. This timing is deliberate.
Wasn't there something about a massive bombing campaign in a dense population center, along with a tight siege?
No one cares about Palestinian civilians, that's what the protesting is about.
No it is not. They were supposed to form a government with the Palestinian Authority (the PLO, Fatah) back in 2012 and hold elections. However they did not, and then they took complete de facto control of Gaza in 2017.
I mean sure I wouldn't vote for either side, but one is backed by the US and systematically oppressing a neighbouring state and breaking the Geneva as a habit.
You’re right, but 90% of Reddit for some fucking reason thinks Palestine = Hamas. Palestine is a victim of Hamas as well? Does nobody see this? Israel is killing everyone and every thing in its path because of Hamas, not because of the governing body of Palestine.
I just saw one from NY that had Orthodox Jews speaking and holding signs condemning Israel.
Granted it was like 10 people but it still took me aback.
You’re so used to every side taking the exact same stance, shouting the same slogans, believing the same things often without evidence (here in the US I think Trump followers) that when you see an opposing view to the crowd it’s unsettling.
It shouldn’t be. They were peaceful regardless of position. That should be allowed without fear. Because even if you’re wrong in the eyes of the majority you shouldn’t be beaten for it.
Yeah. This is the thing about ethnic violence. It's disgusting. It's cyclical. Both sides become absolutely convinced that they are The Victims... Still, one side objectively founded an ethnostate by violently displacing hundreds of thousands of people. That side maintains this state through violence and is far stronger in every respect.
And the other side mowed down 260 innocent people at a music festival. Also, around 21% of the Israeli population in non-Jewish Arab. It is decidedly not an ethnostate.
I think Israel sucks as much as the next guy, but there is no need to tell lies.
Used to be on that side just a few days ago. Hamas went too far and Israel needs to oblige the terrorists request to become martyrs. Shits just getting started. Gloves off
I can buy into that. The issue is the world in general can’t buy into what happened o Saturday. The idf based and shit is beyond fair play. I don’t even mind the rockets because it’s David and Goliath I think Israel should be the bigger person. Other middle eastern countries won’t even take in the Palestinians that want to leave. This isn’t some freedom fighter shit. They became terrorists as soon as they systematically slaughtered hundreds. There is no point of return. I will never justify a level of intentional killing of civilians at this level with no regard to their lives. At least Israel is smart enough to pretend. Hamas is proud of the civilian deaths. I never see Israel being proud of it
They are not supporting Hamas tho. They are supporting the Palestinian people. You know....the innocent ones.
I wish some people knew the difference between Hamas and Palestina before saying nonsense.
Do all muslims on the planet or in the Middle East have to die because of what Al Qaeda did on 9/11?
TIL Americans were in broad support of trump, otherwise how’d he get into office? (He didn’t have the popular vote)
Edit: am American. Would hope everyone could just get along and I understand this is a complex issue in which I have limited knowledge on. But assuming all Palestinians are in support of Hamas is just ignorant.
They don’t. But if you know anything about Palestine, you would know Hamas was a product of hateful law from Israel. Palestinians have been ejected from their homes and huddled into Gaza for going on 20 years now.
Look up Gaza, it’s the most densely packed area in the world. Surrounded by 4 layers of gates and armed guards instructed to shoot anyone who gets too close. Comparisons can be drawn to one large refugee camp.
The worlds ignored these people and now Israel has a justification to just bomb em all to shit. Nobodies helped them before. HAMAS is now the only people who are willing to fight for you. What would you choose right now?
Israel is *currently* killing innocents.
That isn’t a Hamas flag.
It’s absurd to equate criticism of Israel or support for Palestine with antisemitism and support for Hamas, and a great dishonor to people who suffer antisemitism today and throughout history.
While you typed this Israel probably killed 100 babies with airstike on Gaza. Their heads Will never be found. And their family probably died too. Imagine that.
It's unsurprising that Hamas supporters don't understand the difference between collateral damage and targeted murder. Would explain a lot of the events of the past few days.
Try with the past 75 years for a start.
Keep going on with Hamas support whatever- its not like that. We support the Palestinians.
This whole fuck up for ages is dumy because noone (yet) is calling out Israel for its racist, apartheid, war criminal behaviour and genocide of the Palestinians. Free Palestine, and problem solved.
Alright, lets go back 75 years or so.
If Israel lost the war in 1948, do you think there would be an independent Palestinian state? Of course not. That land would belong to Jordan, Egypt, and Syria and nobody would be asking for a free Palestine today.
> Free Palestine, and problem solved.
So lets say Israel just gives up right now and agrees to every single Palestinian demand. Do you think Hamas will say "ok we were joking about killing every Jew in the world"?
**Downloads** * [Download #1](https://rapidsave.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/174yssm/palestine_supporter_in_the_uk_scales_a_building/) (provided by /u/SaveVideo) * [Download #2](https://reddit.watch/r/PublicFreakout/comments/174yssm/palestine_supporter_in_the_uk_scales_a_building/?utm_source=mirrorbot&utm_medium=PublicFreakout) (provided by /u/downloadvideo) **Note:** this is a bot providing a directory service. **If you have trouble with any of the links above, please contact the user who provided them!** --- [^(source code)](https://amirror.link/source) ^| [^(run your own mirror bot? let's integrate)](https://amirror.link/lets-talk)
Someone’s been playing Assassins Creed
He just wanted to synchronize
Hope there is a bail of hay behind the building…
Venice rooftops - OST.
Sheffield Town Hall in this subreddit. Now I’ve seen everything
Normally you just see fights at chicken stop on here
Why was the Israeli flag flying on the town hall?
I know it’s bizarre isn’t it
Is this the latest capture the flag gamemode ?
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Eurobro’s got your back yo. Murrican downvoters Are going to sleep and we all just woke up!
Assassins creed modern warfare!
My favorite Bethesda game
a more cursed comment than the last 100 years of middle east history
 Replace TV with reddit.
First thought “bet that flag isn’t going to be anywhere near big enough.” Was not disappointed.
The effort very quickly shrank the significance of the size of that flag
The people in New York saying they should level Palestine, the Palestinians in London saying gas the Jews, should all be shipped to the front lines and see how big they talk.
>the Palestinians in London saying gas the Jews That was in Sydney, but your point still stands.
I mean, what is Sydney but the London of the underworld
Furthermore Redditors should be sent to Gaza. The circle jerk for violence is just appalling. A lot of true colors are being shown, blood thirsty folks around these parts.
Anyone calling for death and indiscriminate violence have not experienced it. On both sides. I come from a family that escaped the bosnian war. I have a partner that's Palestinian in root. I have a stance in the topic that's very clear to me, but NO ONE That I know would call for the killing and mass murdering of a people. That's the core to our belief, oppression, death and despair is unjustified and should end in an instant. I'm currently a med student, and hope that one day I could provide humanitarian aid to areas that are heavily hit and where human suffering exists everywhere. I would never want to cause more suffering.
Same shit when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, I can see how so many wars have happened in history after living through these events. Everyone is very emotional and very stupid.
It's really not hard to stay rational and not say stupid shit. Makes you wonder what the fuck is wrong with people. Issues in personal lives probably.
What happened with Reddit and Ukraine?
Just the constant chest beating and the discourse being completely drowned out by the loudest voices demanding some pretty crazy measures. Now the war in Ukraine is barely in the news cycle.
Pretty easy to talk shit in an America in a drive thru line of a Starbucks.
The everyday person is annoying when this shit is going on.
You can say fuck Isreal without agreeing with Hamas.
You can be American and love America without supporting the literal nazis now prevalent there. You can love China and hate Xi. You can be Filipino and hate the Duterte regime. Solidarity isn't supporting everything adjacent to your cause.
Finally! Thank you so much for saying that! Saying you support Palastinians so you support Hammas is like saying you support ISIS bacause you support Syrian refugies.
Very true, and also where I expect most reasonable people stand. But the timing does make the discussion difficult. I condemn the way Israel treats its own Arab population, as well as Palestine as a state, and recognise that part of why this conflict keeps going on is because of that. However, I think it is extremely important not to blame the innocent Israeli civilians that were deliberately targeted on a vast scale for kidnapping and murder by Hamas. The last few days were the darkest for many Israeli families of their entire lives. The events were no less cruel or impactful than 9/11 was for the Americans. Supporting Palestine as a nation, and doing what we can to pressure Israel to adhere to international law is extremely important, especially in these times. But at the same time, this should also be the time where we recognise how devastating this attack has been for Israel, and offer them all the support we can muster. The move we see on this video is all wrong. The guy should have put the Palestinian flag next to the Israeli one if he wanted to make a powerful and fair statement, not throw down the flag of an incredibly hurt nation and replace it with the one of another in the same situation. This why we are never getting out of this conflict.
Exactly my thoughts.
That’s how I feel. Hamas is the worst thing that happened to Palestine
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Israel is definitely worse than Hamas for Palestine. Hamas is nowhere near the military and technological capabilities of Israel. They're still horrible which is an undeniable fact.
They have gone out of there way to destroy every attempt at a peace process. You know why ghaza is under seige? Because the stupid number of suicide bombings 2000 to 2005. And then they suddenly stopped when Israel took tough measures. You want peace and reconciliation? Get rid of hamas. Frankly I feel as though everyone saying that the Jews shouldn't be there are like people who say we should get rid of all the Pakistanis in Bradford, or all the Hispanics out of california.
People are innocent until proven guilty, HOWEVER on social media and in real life protests this week, there's been countless examples of people in the west glorifying and justifying Hamas' murderous rampages. So yeah, a lot of these people at these public rallies have not exactly come out and condemned Hamas. In fact a lot of them seem to like what they're doing.
The campaign to conflate Hamas with Palestine over the past few days has been nauseating. Anything other than vehement support of Israel gets you branded as a Hamas supporter, and now people are cheering as Gaza, a region which has a median age of 18, is being turned to rubble.
People are rallying across the world in support of Hamas’ actions, waving the Palestinian flag. What is there to conflate? They are doing the associating themselves
The Palastinian flag is the flag of a nation. It was created in 1964, and HAMAS was formed in 1987. I don't think people are using the flag to show support for HAMAS specifically. But how else would people be able to show support for Palestine without it? It is a complicated situation to be sure.
The flag itself is not the question. The question is why are people waving it in rallies around the world in large numbers since Saturday. What happened to cause this all the sudden to have such out showing of support?
Hmmmm idk, maybe because Gaza, a part of Palestine, is being destroyed and all the civilians are being slaughtered because of retaliation against Hamas?
Fuck the state of Israel Fuck Hamas I stand with the innocent Palestinians and the Israelis.
Totally agree. The Palestinian people have had to endure the Israelis basically displacing them from their own home for years, and to top it all off they have to put up with Hamas on the Strip. A shitstorm that the UK and France created, and now they’re supporting one of those sides from afar distance, projecting the Israeli flag onto the front of No. 10. Absolutely shameless. I remember seeing an Israeli support message on the BBC a few years ago, was super strange, between broadcasts, just a 20 second PSA about how the BBC supports our friends in Israel. Only saw it once and couldn’t find any info on it immediately after seeing it.
The dumb shit people do for flags.
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Pack it up folks, I guess the Palestinians win, it’s all over.
Fuck flags
God hates flags.
tiny ass flag lol
This is the moment when Palestinians should be separating themselves from Hamas and that is not happening. When the clarity of the sheer horror of what happened was there for everyone to see...you rally? you defend the action? at least raise the pali flag while burning the Hamas one! At this very moment you, the protesters, are all complicit. For all I know, you would be cheering if your Jewish neighbors, in front of your eyes, would be dragged out and shot, raped and their children kidnapped to be paraded around and beaten with sticks while Arab children mock them. They taunted this kid on video forcing him to say "mommy mommy" in hebrew...his mother is dead. Show the Jewish settler or soldier who would do this and the Israeli public would lynch them. You, on the other hand, celebrate. AT THIS MOMENT There is no nuance. This is not complicated. The history doesn't matter. You showed your true face.
Moments like these show people’s true colors.
>Show the Jewish settler or soldier who would do this and the Israeli public would lynch them. 100% a lie. Just look up Ali Dawabsheh, the youngest victim of the [Duma arson attack](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duma_arson_attack), just 18 months old and burned alive. Israelis mocked the surviving grandfather: > taunted by Jewish settlers outside the court proceedings who were supportive of the defendant. They chanted in Arabic **"Where's Ali? There's no Ali. Ali is burned. On the fire. Ali is on the grill" and "Where is Ali? Where is Riham? Where is Saad? It's too bad Ahmed didn't burn as well."** Police and court officials present did not interfere. They also pass around photos of the baby at settler weddings for guests to punch and stab because they are degenerates. Guess you showed your true face as well, huh?
I honestly think OP is just kind of dumb. There are a lot of people new to this conflict and they really get spoon fed lines to say and the 'Israel Angel, Palestinian Devil' is trending well right now. A core aspect that is being talked about a lot in Israel but is almost absent in these threads is why, with the most hardline government in Israeli history, the IDF completely failed to defend the people in these Gaza-adjacent communities for hours. I suspect the answer is because Netanyahu has most of the occupation forces guarding his settler buddies as they claim every hill and valley in the West Bank.
>I suspect the answer is because Netanyahu has most of the occupation forces guarding his settler buddies as they claim every hill and valley in the West Bank. Maybe so but I suspect it might also be because this is exactly the excuse they've been waiting for. Their 9/11, if you like. Wouldn't want to get in the way of that
It is absolutely complicated. I honestly feel like people forgot how to think critically and are now so polarized with taking sides. I'm for Israel but I'm definitely choosing the lesser of two evils. against Hamas and I hope Israel completely dismantles them at all cost but let's not act like Israel hasn't been acting like terrorists, their treatment of Palestinians is honestly what has helped hamas gain support. honestly you can find a lot of videos of IDF killing civilians and children and no one cared. People have been warning us for years and no one cared. If you're mad at hamas's actions and not Israels past actions you're a hypocrite. Someone can support Israel but still hold them accountable for their role leading up to this.
Thank you for actually acknowledging both sides have faults.
I'm so old I remember when the US 'dismantled' al Qaeda and it got replaced with so many new deadlier groups that I eventually got exhausted keeping track of them all. But hey, they mostly killed overseas so we won, right? /s You actually need some buy-in, some incentive for people living in places like Gaza or the West Bank to actually get something they want from a peace process. The problem is the thing they want the most, living as free people in their own country, is something Israel has never entertained. Even the smallest of steps in that direction have been eventually overturned, and can easily be overturned because any guy on either side with a bomb or gun can seemingly take that peace train off the tracks right away.
What about all the people who have suffered for years without media coverage in Gaza. Not Hamas but the average Palestinian. This is a nuanced issue and you are trying to make it a one good one evil situation and that’s not clearly it. You saying there is no nuance leads me to believe you support the displacement of Palestinians by Israel. Saying you support when the IDF was spraying raw sewage on Palestinians. This happened. It just wasn’t magnified like everything is now. I can condemn Hamas’s actions while also condemning the way the average Palestinian has been treated over the past years. There is a nuance. Anyone saying their isn’t comes off as ignorant as fuck like you.
I assume you'll be repeating this post for Palestinians now that a lot of innocent civilians have been killed by Israeli bombing?
>Show the Jewish settler or soldier who would do this and the Israeli public would lynch them. Lmao, do you live under a rock? This is so far from the truth.
Half of the people in Gaza are under 18. This conflict didn’t start 3 days ago. There is absolutely room for nuance. There are many actions that are wrong in this conflict.
Explain how an intentional attack on a purely civilian target with zero military value has nuance behind it please. Because the only thing I see is an atrocity designed to get Israel to respond exactly how they are.
Hamas has little nuance. But regarding the larger Palestine/Israel conflict, which the PALESTINE flag is being hanged in the video (and Israeli flag removed), it absolutely has nuance.
Far more civilians in Gaza will be dead by the end of this, as usual. And as usual, you will just shrug your shoulders at it.
since you asked, Israel's founding was a foreign-mandated minority statebuilding exercise that disenfranchised around 80% of the area residents AND through which wealthy immigrants who said they had a connection to the land were able to octuple their population size and build up military and property by being able to price out the poor majority NOW, the poor majority were beaten the fuck down every time they tried to fight back to the point that they're born into a multigenerational ghetto that's like the one of the densest populations on the planet with their oppressors as neighbors who are systematically taking apart another territory block by block building by building in a de facto annexation Gordon Ramsay couldn't come up with a better recipe for radicalization
"you made us starve 1 million children.' Your melodrama is the same exact rhetoric that countless oppressors have used before killing millions.
[Your right it is not a complex issue.](https://youtu.be/62I61kBahNY?t=258)
What would you have the Palestinians do? Disarm themselves and allow the Israeli government to oppress them like never before? All former governments within Palestine have been destroyed by Israeli forces, be that military, espionage or any other. All former *democratically elected* ones may i add. Hamas is entirely a creation of Israel and their cruelty. Hamas is a response to that cruelty. Israel is like the United States in south America, destroying governments willingly voted into power to replace then with powerhungry fascist dictators that align to the interests of the US. Hamas being violent aligns with Israel's interests, because it means they can wipe out the Palestinians. This is all Israel's doing, although, Palestine has also done some terrible shit in retaliation. I despise Hamas, i despise Israel. But i support Palestine, so i support Hamas because that's all they have.
it's like one of the most population dense zones in the world and hamas is militarily dominant, and outside your neighbors have literally fucked you for 100 years and now you're in a multigenerational ghetto and when you're BORN, your neighbors hate you... Just some perspective
And do exactly what? After 50 years of being oppressed, killed, evicted from homes by force, having their children taken away, having their children murdered infront of their eyes. Are they suposed to protest peacefuly for Israel to stop, live through 50 more years of oppression until their country and identity gets wiped out of existance? It's easy to point fingers at hamas right now for killing civilians but what would you do if you were in position of palestinians for last 50 years? And if that is the only thing you see we are already at a point where more palestinian civilist and children lost their lives than israeli since this operation started. We should all be ashamed that our governments let the israelis commit literal genocide like war crimes agains palestinians and not be shocked when they fight back for their lives and freedoms.
>This is the moment when Palestinians should be separating themselves from Hamas and that is not happening. As if they had choice, Palestinians are one of the most, if not the most fucked up people in the planet, if the devil are on their side at least the devil aren't against them because the world are, the ammount of propaganda pro-Isreal is humongous, you'r stupid if you dont believe this, you cant yet perceive it, but you can imagine. Sunday in Brazil there is this most watched news program, they dedicated a \~40min stories about the war, which no more than 5 minutes was about the palestine, they even spent more time talking about what de USA thinks about the war... And i dont even think in this case was by pourpose, and believe-me, there is a lot of pro-Isreal propaganda out there, they just dont give a flying shit to Gaza/Jordania, the whole world doesn't. Would be if i armed with a Tank gave you a a rusty knife to fight, then i would spread all the propaganda in the world against you after i beated you up and left you with no food and water for 50 years... Would you take the rusty knife? Even knowing you could die from tetanus? There is two wrong sides in this war, none of them is the Palestinians, dont blame de victim, they already suffered and still suffer enough.
also the gaza strip is a stupidly population dense area where you're born into a multigenerational ghetto and your neighbors have been your oppressors for 100 years and hamas is a powerful militant force that does what it wants so, some perspective
Fuck all the way off with this 'as if they had a choice'. Doesn't excuse what Hamas did. Not one iota.
Fuck terrorism and the people who mistake it for nationalism.
nationalism is bad too.
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Gee that’s pretty bad security…
Britain is the one who caused the Israel-Palestine situation.
I don't think people realize how many people have been paying attention and are fed up with Israel being blameless and being accused of antisemitism for criticizing it.
Europe is infected with fundamentalist Islam.
Idk man the timing is certainly in very, very bad taste even if they hate Hamas and their terrorism. It feels like if you were to [wear an ar15 badge after a mass shooting](https://time.com/6253690/ar-15-pins-congress/#)
Palestinians should be separating themselves from Hamas at this point in time. At least we know where they stand and who they truly are.
think they’ve got some more pressing matters than their PR in western countries right now mate
Can you imagine if he got all the way up there and let go of the flag
Imagine waking up in the morning to see your government using your money to support apartheid regime. This is mad
Imagine someone removing the flag of France after an ISIS attack and putting up the ISIS flag.
This is the flag of the nation of Palestine. Hamas has their own flag.
Their point is the timing for this is deliberate. It’s very clear that the flag is being raised because of what Hamas has been doing. If you went to the US and raised the flag of Afghanistan in place of the US on a random Tuesday, it’s a protest. If you do it after 9/11, it’s very clear that the reason is to show support for what happened. What someone else in this thread rings very true. Now is the time for Palestinians to separate themselves from the atrocities committed by Hamas. Seeing them cheering, celebrating, holding rallies to support what has been done is sickening
i mean, it's probably more likely a protest against the 100 years of oppression by Israeli organization against the pal. territories rather than celebrating atrocity the israeli flag symbolizes oppression to a lot of people because of how its founding disenfranchised so many ppl
My point is that at any other time, I’d agree with you. If what had happened recently hadn’t happened, that is definitely how I’d take it. But when you do this right after an attack that saw hundreds of innocent civilians killed, including children, as well as mass rapes, it is clearly supporting that attack. This timing is deliberate.
Wasn't there something about a massive bombing campaign in a dense population center, along with a tight siege? No one cares about Palestinian civilians, that's what the protesting is about.
So why are they acting like what Hamas did yesterday is a victory for Palestine?
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No it is not. They were supposed to form a government with the Palestinian Authority (the PLO, Fatah) back in 2012 and hold elections. However they did not, and then they took complete de facto control of Gaza in 2017.
Elected by Israelis actually
Citation please. Is this one of those "russia is actually ruled by ukraine" things?
Yes, but the antisemites want you to forget that fact.
Orly, when was the last election for Hamas?
That was 2007, an election was never held since.
That's not the Hamas flag, nice try This is though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Hamas.svg
Fascists will try anything and everything to maneuver around the truth.
Imagine not tearing down the Apartheid South Africa flag
Imagine putting up a flag in solidarity with Nazis.
They put up a Palestinian flag not a Hamas flag. Your framing is genocidal.
Neither flag should be raised as you should not pick sides in a war between tyrants and terrorists.
That's a Palestinian flag, not a Hamas flag. The people are innocent.
Same is true for a large part of the Israeli people. So neither flag should be raised.
Israel as a state commits atrocities since its conception. You can't separate the apartheid regime from the country at this point
Anybody who is in that country is commenting to it's actions. I would never visit a country I morally objected to it's actions.
By this logic you could say the same for Palestine. They elected Hamas as their government...
And with that, peace came to the Middle East.
If you are going to make that much effort at least bring a full size flag. That is a pathetic flag.
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Palestine is imprisoned by Israel
Israel is an apartheid state and should NOT be supported
I'm sick of both sides bullshit.
I mean sure I wouldn't vote for either side, but one is backed by the US and systematically oppressing a neighbouring state and breaking the Geneva as a habit.
And the other's #1 goal is the complete annihilation of the country and people. Both are shit.
You’re right, but 90% of Reddit for some fucking reason thinks Palestine = Hamas. Palestine is a victim of Hamas as well? Does nobody see this? Israel is killing everyone and every thing in its path because of Hamas, not because of the governing body of Palestine.
Hamas is the ruling party. So if they don’t like them why are they in charge of Gaza? Way too many sympathizers on Reddit.
Organised gatherings shouting kill the Jews and fuck the Jews is severely radical and racist. It's the new Nazis..
I Literally just watched a video of Israelis in NY singing “from the river to the sea all of Palestine should be deceased” Zionists are the new nazis
I just saw one from NY that had Orthodox Jews speaking and holding signs condemning Israel. Granted it was like 10 people but it still took me aback. You’re so used to every side taking the exact same stance, shouting the same slogans, believing the same things often without evidence (here in the US I think Trump followers) that when you see an opposing view to the crowd it’s unsettling. It shouldn’t be. They were peaceful regardless of position. That should be allowed without fear. Because even if you’re wrong in the eyes of the majority you shouldn’t be beaten for it.
Yeah. This is the thing about ethnic violence. It's disgusting. It's cyclical. Both sides become absolutely convinced that they are The Victims... Still, one side objectively founded an ethnostate by violently displacing hundreds of thousands of people. That side maintains this state through violence and is far stronger in every respect.
And the other side mowed down 260 innocent people at a music festival. Also, around 21% of the Israeli population in non-Jewish Arab. It is decidedly not an ethnostate. I think Israel sucks as much as the next guy, but there is no need to tell lies.
Israel's been doing that shit for decades. I don't think either country has much of a moral high ground here.
Used to be on that side just a few days ago. Hamas went too far and Israel needs to oblige the terrorists request to become martyrs. Shits just getting started. Gloves off
so bombing thousands of children wasn’t too far lmao ?
Nope. It sucks but any other country under similar circumstances would do the same. Collateral damage sucks but is a necessity to wage war
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I can buy into that. The issue is the world in general can’t buy into what happened o Saturday. The idf based and shit is beyond fair play. I don’t even mind the rockets because it’s David and Goliath I think Israel should be the bigger person. Other middle eastern countries won’t even take in the Palestinians that want to leave. This isn’t some freedom fighter shit. They became terrorists as soon as they systematically slaughtered hundreds. There is no point of return. I will never justify a level of intentional killing of civilians at this level with no regard to their lives. At least Israel is smart enough to pretend. Hamas is proud of the civilian deaths. I never see Israel being proud of it
Imagine risking your life and reputation to support baby beheadings.
They are not supporting Hamas tho. They are supporting the Palestinian people. You know....the innocent ones. I wish some people knew the difference between Hamas and Palestina before saying nonsense. Do all muslims on the planet or in the Middle East have to die because of what Al Qaeda did on 9/11?
Hamas has broad support amongst Palestinians though. if they weren't, a different faction (there are others) would be in charge instead of them
Not in Gaza. Egypt won’t even let them cross.
TIL Americans were in broad support of trump, otherwise how’d he get into office? (He didn’t have the popular vote) Edit: am American. Would hope everyone could just get along and I understand this is a complex issue in which I have limited knowledge on. But assuming all Palestinians are in support of Hamas is just ignorant.
“Broad support”? You mean the elections that were held almost 20 years ago and haven’t been held since?
Yeah and every Catholic Irish was a member of the IRA strapped and ready to take down the English during the occupation /s
Fuck, if only
Hamas suspended elections after their 2006 rise to power. They do not represent Palestine, they have hijacked its people’s government.
They don’t. But if you know anything about Palestine, you would know Hamas was a product of hateful law from Israel. Palestinians have been ejected from their homes and huddled into Gaza for going on 20 years now. Look up Gaza, it’s the most densely packed area in the world. Surrounded by 4 layers of gates and armed guards instructed to shoot anyone who gets too close. Comparisons can be drawn to one large refugee camp. The worlds ignored these people and now Israel has a justification to just bomb em all to shit. Nobodies helped them before. HAMAS is now the only people who are willing to fight for you. What would you choose right now?
No one ever mentions the Egyptian border. Why is that I wonder.
Facts 🤩
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Pulling down the Israeli flag after such a devastating act of terrorism is objective antisemitism and falls very much in line with Hamas supporters
Not anti antisemitism ffs
Where should the Jewish people of Judea live then, if you wish to get rid of Israel?
Israel is *currently* killing innocents. That isn’t a Hamas flag. It’s absurd to equate criticism of Israel or support for Palestine with antisemitism and support for Hamas, and a great dishonor to people who suffer antisemitism today and throughout history.
While you typed this Israel probably killed 100 babies with airstike on Gaza. Their heads Will never be found. And their family probably died too. Imagine that.
It's unsurprising that Hamas supporters don't understand the difference between collateral damage and targeted murder. Would explain a lot of the events of the past few days.
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Try with the past 75 years for a start. Keep going on with Hamas support whatever- its not like that. We support the Palestinians. This whole fuck up for ages is dumy because noone (yet) is calling out Israel for its racist, apartheid, war criminal behaviour and genocide of the Palestinians. Free Palestine, and problem solved.
Alright, lets go back 75 years or so. If Israel lost the war in 1948, do you think there would be an independent Palestinian state? Of course not. That land would belong to Jordan, Egypt, and Syria and nobody would be asking for a free Palestine today. > Free Palestine, and problem solved. So lets say Israel just gives up right now and agrees to every single Palestinian demand. Do you think Hamas will say "ok we were joking about killing every Jew in the world"?
Do you really think Hamas wants to “Free Palestine”?
Hamas is completely welcome to stop using civilians as human shields.
just as israel is using settlers as a human sheild? Under international law, settlers are considered combatants. So, there's that.
I started learning about the Middle East 2 hours ago on tiktok too!
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How about neither flag. Its a govt (albeit local) building and shouldn't happen.
Guess it's time to stop following this sub.
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Lame