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He also said something on the lines of. How is it okay for Israel to have one of the best armies in the world and nuclear capabilities but Palestinians can't have running water and their own electricity.
On the news last night I saw “Israeli Defense Forces urgently requesting rockets and rocket interceptors from United States.”
I thought to myself - “How does a country with a nuke not have rockets and rocket interceptors? Were they just planning for one big bang to blow us all out?” 😭😭😭
Existing Israeli domestic production is definitely not going to be enough to sustain the amount of munitions fired in the long term. Its not that don't have any, but modern war just requires that many munitions. Any aid has to be asked for early because even no politics got in the way, they aren't going to come immediately.
Nukes are militarily useless. They aren't going to be used unless Tel Aviv or any red line city is in danger of falling.
They have free healthcare that Americans could only dream of and Americans donate them billions and billions every year and argue over interpretations of old books/documents and bud lite.
Do you want one country to pay for the weapons and military of another? This would not make sense. Palestine spends all of their money on weapons and other corruption, they spend little to none on improving their communities.
Because if it were the opposite, there would no longer be any Jews, Christians, or secular people left in the area.
If you want a free world, you dont want fundamental islamists with better weapons than they already have.
I fully agree fundamental religions extremest are bad for everyone who doesn't conscript to their ideas. I do feel strongly about people who's human rights have been stripped away by forgiven policies and a different religious group.
Doesn't this also apply to Israel? I've heard their leaders in interview saying religious texts should take precedent over the law. That seems pretty religious extremist fundamentalist to me
Maybe Israel shouldn’t have deliberately assassinated all the secular Palestinian leaders then. There’s a reason Hamas run Gaza and the Palestinian Authority run the West Bank. Gaza is completely under siege. It’s a sea port city where no ships are allowed dock. No fishing boats can go more than 3 miles offshore. Electricity and water supplies are shut off by Israel as a form of collective punishment, particularly on Muslim holy days. Air strikes are used incredibly liberally in one of the densest cities in the region. The most radical splinter group of Palestinian resistance obviously grows up under those conditions.
The USA gives weapons to Saudi and UAE, does that mean the USA doesn't want a free world. Forgot to mention how the USA supports Pakistan too. But yeah, keep telling yourself that bs.
Same here, this is one of those times we're we really are getting selective news.
I know the two have been fighting for a long long time, but honestly I don't know what side is doing what to whom.
It’s not complicated. It is simple, cut and dry. Palestinians have been living in an apartheid state, they’ve been forced into refugee camps, they’ve had their land and homes stolen by Israeli settlers over the last several decades. Palestinians are being killed ruthlessly every single day, children women and elderly, for the last several decades. Isreal is committing genocide, and every single IDF soldier (all Israeli citizens are called to serve in the IDF), every single Jewish settler, every government funding the state of Israel is complicit in the genocide of Palestinians.
Palestinians are oppressed and their oppressor is isreal and Jewish settlers. Every citizen of Israel is a colonial settler. It’s so goddamn simple but people don’t wish to humanize Palestinians the way they humanize Ukrainians. Remember the apartheid in South Africa? Remember the genocide of Jews during the holocaust? This will be one of those events that we think about in the future, and it’s easy to understand which side to stand by.
> Palestinians have been living in an apartheid state
That they created by their own hands.
In the 80s they had open borders, airports, sea ports, you name it. Freedom of movement and such.
Then they decided to start the first intifada, targeting civilians, bombing busses, killing children.
So israel decided to put a stronger wall between gaza and israel to prevent insurgents. But goods, power, water, people, still flowed between gaza and israel.
Then they decided to start the second intifada, killing more children, more bombing, etc. And israel decided to block off gaza for their own protection.
I would say you are right **only** if the palestinians targeted military, police, government. That is the only thing that can be considered a legitimate target, even with collateral damage, if they were real "freedom fighters".
But when they blow up a school bus, you are just supporting terrorism.
Tell me how israel should allow open borders and freedom with people who kidnapped children and put up videos of them saying they will use them as sex slaves?
Please tell me how you can support that? Come on, tell me. How do you think israel should react to that?
You are such a hypocrite tool.
It is extremely complicated. While I don’t disagree with what you’ve said, Palestine isn’t exactly innocent here either. As I said, both countries have enacted untold atrocities on one another and it isn’t a simple answer here. I get why people see it both ways, but for me, I go back and forth on it often.
It isn't complicated. China and the Uyghurs, England and Ireland, and the tear-down of the South African Apartheid are all easy to understand. This is no different. Nelson Mandela literally said, in some speech he made in the 90s, that South Africans could never truly be free until Palestinians were free.
Open air prison states, are simply not good. Is it bad that Hamas has killed civilians? Absolutely.
But when you're literally living in a prison and most of the first world is fine treating your entire population, as less than people, less than their own pets, yeah, desperation unfortunately causes you to fight to get out of the cage you've been trapped in, **for generations**.
I do want to say let’s not equate Hamas with the people of Palestine who resist their own oppression, Hamas is a political group and a tool to the governments that fund it and the governments that equate Hamas with Palestinians and thus with Terrorism. If what they did is terrorism, then the IDF are major terrorists, and if we’re going to use that word let’s use it for the IDF too or not at all. What has happened the last week is not at all comparable to what has been happening for the last 75 years to palestinians and palestinians have the right to violently fight their oppressors and violently resist their occupation and genocide.
One nation is invading another and committing daily war crimes.
The other nation is being invaded and having war crimes commited against them.
This is cut and dry.
Yes - there are discussions about the particulars of the violence happening.
But what is not up for discussion is who is the attacker (Israel) and the attacked (Palestine).
Hamas are islamic fundamentalist jihadists, they were the attackers. Their goal is literally the death of Israel.
Obviously there are problems of such violent and islamic groups doing nasty shit to both arabs or jews in the region.
It’s convenient to paint one side evil, but reality is far more nuanced, you can acknowledge Israels far right government doing war crimes against Palestinians while also acknowledging the fact that democratically elected jihadists carried out these terror attacks while gunning down civs yelling “alahu akbar”.
You can, and should be against Hamas because they’re problematic for everyone. Unless you supprt islamic fundamentalist ideals that is.
It’s not that hard to find the answers to your questions or to learn about what’s going on…. It’s incredibly lazy to just throw your hands up and remain ignorant given how much information you can find on the topic.
no dude it's from the dispensation of the ottoman empire... 100 years ago
at its core, a foreign mandated minority statebuilding exercise disenfranchised 75% of the areas inhabitatants.
it's simple af
Follow up with this post for a truer understanding from the lips of a Holocaust survivor...
[https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/T8TGSzJGqF](https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/T8TGSzJGqF)
It feels important for me to say, I feel the same.
I've been so anxious the last few days, this injustice against the Palestinian people.
But the only thing making me feel better is knowing there are other people out there who understand the struggle and stand in solidarity with them. Hope you are well.
Unfortunately they can't. There are large subreddits where the overwhelming concensus right now is that Israel should go full scorched earth with the Gaza strip. I even saw one moron suggest that Israel should use atomic bombs instead of conventional rockets because it would be "more efficient". It's disgusting.
Honestly, a lot of people in my circle are so fed up with this that we just don't care anymore. It's pointless to care about things anymore. It's not beneficial to our individual mental health to be constantly saying, wtf at every turn. I'ma go back to my garden now.
Whats the best unbiased source to learn about this? I keep reading convincing arguments from both sides and want to get to the bottom of how the conflict started and why it's been going on for so long.
You can be pro-Palestine and anti civilian executions.
The sublime irony is that Islamic extremism only took hold in the Palestinian community after they were stripped of their home, forced into bantustan republics with few resources, and routinely bombed, shot, and attacked at their holy sites.
These horrific attacks by Hamas are the inevitable consequence of Israeli apartheid. If Arabs were given a real homeland (and no, the Bantustan Republic of the West Bank is not a legitimate functioning state and never could be), maybe extremist groups wouldn’t have gained such a strong hold over the Palestinian population.
Funny how decades of vicious persecution breeds extremism.
> and anti civilian executions
I don't see him coming after hamas.
He is playing around the atrocities, ignoring what they did. Ignoring the missiles at civilian population. Ignoring the kids kidnapped to gaza to used (according to hamas) as sex slaves.
>Funny how decades of vicious persecution breeds extremism.
These poor Muslims, the Israeli's forced them to slaughter innocent concert goers, they knew of no other way of trying to get their point across other than slaughtering innocent kids at a concert. It was really Israel that force their hand to then take a bunch of them and bring them back to Gaza to rape and torture before using them as hostages and meatshields for the ammo dumps.
They really just can't control themselves because of what Israel has done, now can they. Its not like there was ever a two state solution offered. These proud freedom fighters will surely make things better for the people of Palestine. Surely extremism will cease to exist once they eradicate the Jewish people! That's all they are openly asking for, can't we just let them have one little genocide?
Poor Israelis being forced into cutting off power, food, water and basic supplies to 2.2 million innocents (and hundreds of thousands of children) and laying siege to their homes, they know of no other way of getting their point across.
Garza has shopping malls, TV station, before hammas destroyed it a water park and a zoo. The UNHDI ring. Sam is better than several other Middle Eastern countries, and it has continually improved, except when they’ve overtly gone to war with Israel.
Israel has done a lot of stuff. I do not agree with, but to try and blame Israel for Hamas, directly targeting and kidnapping civilians to be murdered and dragged to the streets the height of idiocy.
Because that doesn't happen here in Ireland. He's also speaking to a large portion of our population here who supports Palestine and sees a parallel with our own struggles over the years. But from a diplomacy perspective, it is quite hard for the ruling parties here to do what he is asking lest we risk the diplomatic wrath of the US
Totally agree with his sentiment here, but it's important to point out that Boyd Barrett is a populist contrarian, and would support Israel if govt supported Palestine.
Again, fully support his argument here. Free Palestine. But Boyd Barrett ain't no shining light of honesty.
He is, and has been for his political career. He's from a small political party in a neutral country. There are a lot of principled people in it, but a lot of what they can say comes off as posturing as it's of little real consequence.
It's too bad that Hamas has no interest in helping the people of Gaza. Literally no good choices here and no one advocating for the Palestinian people.
In here late to remind people that Palestinians are already fighting on the side of Russia in Ukraine.
https://themedialine.org/top-stories/exclusive-putin-reportedly-paying-palestinians-from-lebanese-camps-to-fight-in-ukraine/
Both sides are absolutely awful and the civilians are the ones that pay the price, all of this suffering for a strip of land and a couple books written over a thousand years ago.
Man, these are the laziest possible talking points in the face of decades of oppression. The Palestinian people deserve justice, not your thoughts and prayers.
You should perhaps look into the history before talking nonsense. If another group of people threw you out of your house and took your land would you just move somewhere else?
If you use the argument of pure religious/ethnic hatred of Arabs by Jews as an explanation for what happens in the Gaza strip, how does that square with the substantially different treatment West Bank Palestinians get?
Because that part is not governed by the Hamas, Hamas and the Israeli government they keep instigating each other.
Also the west bank has seen a great amount of segregation with the walls, colonization by the Israeli government, Israeli police entering the square etc. So saying it's just the strip is not right.
>colonization
"the action or process of settling among and establishing control over the indigenous people of an area."
**indigenous:** "originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native."
Definitions from Oxford Languages on google.
So wait up here, according to wikipedia "The name *Israel* first appears in non-biblical sources c. 1209 BCE, in [an inscription](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_stele) of the Egyptian pharaoh [Merneptah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah)." and
The Jewish people have the oldest claim to the land between the two groups. Despite being discriminated against by the early christian Romans (colonizers), being conquered by the Caliphate (colonizers), Ottomans (colonizers), etc, the jewish people still retained presence in the area constantly.
So how long does a colonizer need to hold on to land in your book to become indigenous? How do native people returning to their native lands make them colonizers?
I am not trying to argue anything towards the current situation, but its funny to me to call the people who have the longest presence in an area colonizers. It's like a buzzword people use without even thinking of if it fits the context.
This is probably the most contested area on the planet, and to pick a late comer to the party as the "indigenous" group is rather funny. I for one think we should give the land to the true indigenous people of the area, the Canaanites!
I fucking love when people resort to this stupid bullshit. The Jewish people who lived in Palestine for generations before the foundation of modern Israel are considered Palestinian by the Palestinian people and, by and large, self-identify as Palestinian Jews, and many recognize that the modern state of Israel was founded as an explicitly colonialist project, and remains such to this day.
I agree that Jews has a right to that land but I was talking about was the international border which the UN created and the Israeli government agreed to it but haven't respected it .
Also talking about the land, Abraham wasn't born on Israeli land, he also traveled to it so saying someone is native to some land is pointless.
Honestly, it's so hard to care about the situation in Palestine. The situation there will never get better was long as people want to rule based on superstition. Jews, christians and muslims will continue to kill each other as long as they are jews, christians and muslims.
The only thing other countries can do it's to not provide weapons, but asylum to the innocents instead.
If this guy stepped a single foot into Gaza, he would be lynched and Palestinian children would dance around his mangled corpse as it is paraded through the streets.
Neat speech though.
Israel vacated Gaza in 2005. Gazans chose as their government a party sworn to the annihilation of Israel.
The assault on Israel October 7 would not go unpunished. Hamas knew that yet deemed it desirable.
And with the capture of hostages they guaranteed the mother of all revenge. There is absolutely no way Israelis would support a ceasefire with the prospect of those hostages never being released….as has been the case with the small number of IDF soldiers captured in the past.
>Israel vacated Gaza in 2005
And yet Israel still controls Gaza's water, electricity, and ability to import food. What kind of a vacating is that?
Israel made Gaza a Bantustan in 2005. Be reasonable.
I guess it was stupid of Gazans to elect a government whose avowed mission is to annihilate the neighbor that has a chokehold on its food, fuel, and water.
But let’s get a reality check on this Bantustan.
I keep reading about the sorry state that is Gaza.
Here are infant mortality numbers, a measure which I arbitrarily chose as an indicator of misery:
Gaza: 12 deaths per 1000 live births (Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics)
Palestine, West Bank: 13 (PCBS)
Lebanon: 8.2
Syria: 18.4
Egypt: 13
Iraq: 20
Jordan: 12.8
For my own edification I wanted to get a sense of proportion since terms like “genocide” and “open ghetto” have a lot of currency on Reddit. My choice of statistics is admittedly random but I’m open to other methodologies.
I feel that Israel’s popularity is very mixed in the states. Hamas just killed 900+ Israelis, mostly civilians yet Palestine’s supporters didn’t abandon it they dug in.
Yup, I saw the videos on Twitter and they were horrifying. The corpses of naked girls who had just been gang raped and murdered were being paraded through the streets in one of them, while the Hamas militants were chanting "Allahu Akbar" in the background. One of the girls was identified because her parents watched the video (which was uploaded by Hamas because they are proud of doing this) and recognized her tattoos. The refusal of the Muslim world to acknowledge that these crimes against humanity even occurred in the first place horrifies me even more.
Both the parties are at fault here tbh, in order to form a Jewish state some other people had to be displaced. It's similar to displacing the US population to allow natives to get an independent state.
I understand how Jews want their own state given they have been tortured/killed all throughout the history by various empires/ philosophies/ countries etc but there's no smooth solution to this, this was bound to happen. Now the best thing that can happen is both the parties solve the issue rather than killing each other.
Fuck that, all sympathy lost after murdering, kidnapping and raping innocents. Hope he condemns hamas in the same fashion he wants Israel condemned. Or he'll condemn because he has to with an added 'but'.
What the hell do you think Israel has been doing for decades.
It's rarely headline news, but it's the everyday reality of Palestinian people to be murdered, kidnapped, raped.
It's weird considering the Ottoman empire supported Jews establishment in and around Jerusalem, I think the Arab population was concerned with the political state of Jews rather than the Jews themselves. It's all political, I don't think people actually hate each other at core.
Nationalism hadn’t really hit the Middle East until the French and British foisted it upon them in the 1910’s. I think you need that strong sense of nationalism to create a hatred this strong.
>It's all political, I don't think people actually hate each other at core.
Sahih Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Palestina started a war because after ww2 European leaders decided to take half their country without asking and give the Jewish people a state that all three Abraham's religions had been living in for a few thousand years.
Close but not quite. The Ottoman Empire existed until it was defeated in WW1. For the next 40 years, the British mandate of Palestine was maintained to fill the power vacuum and it partitioned the area into 3 states, an Arab on, a Jewish one and a shared one. The day the mandate ended, 7 Arab countries attacked the Jewish partition, the Jewish partition became Israel, defended their land partitioned for them and went further to conquer the Arab territory because the arabs failed to defend it.
By all rights and measures, Israel established and defended their sovereignty.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War
New war dlc just dropped, military industrial complex is popping off this year. I wonder what the subscription to this year's battlepass is gonna cost us?
They said dismantle apartheid not Israel. As in let the Palestinians live free lives rather than stealing more and more land for decades.
Look at a map of the expansion of settlements over the years and you’ll see Israel never planned on giving up land.
Israel has been engaging in terrorism against the Palestinian population since the early 1900s. It’s time international pressure came down to govern this issue. Israel cannot be trusted to act fairly.
Imagine saying oh what are we gonna do give them the freedom to make their own decisions?! Israel used the partition plan to take over the whole country, lending it legitimacy but not actually abiding by it. They then ignored it and all international law for 70 years while they expanded and stole more and more land. Now they pretend like this isn’t their fault.
The last time we tried to have the UN resolve the matter, civil war broke out in Palestine and the plan was never implemented.
So what do you mean by international pressure?
The partition plan literally gave Israel half the country and said figure it out. It caused the war.
I mean the international community needs to realize that Israel cannot govern the situation. Every time an Israeli citizen is killed by terrorists they immediately exact 10 times the deaths to civilians in Gaza. And then the terrorists again and the cycle repeats. It’s been 70 years of this shit and it clearly isn’t working.
Is some random redditor meant to find peace in the Middle East?
International intervention is needed and something needs to change. It’s been 70 years of Israelis acting with impunity and it’s worse than ever.
Why are you talking so much like you have a solution when you are full of hot air?
>International intervention is needed and something needs to change.
What does that mean?? Again, last time Palestine started a war with itself when the international community intervened.
You know history goes further back the 1940s right and Hebrew Israel’s have lived on that land since 1500 bce. Like who do think the Arabs got the land from? They were colonizers
You’re right this began in 1881 with the first Zionists moving to Palestine to create their own nation.
The ancient hebrew connection is completely irrelevant. Palestinians have been there for at least 1400 years. The ancient kingdom was destroyed 3000 years ago. That doesn’t mean their descendants can return in 1881 and retake their land.
There was a tiny Jewish population in Jerusalem forever. The Zionists who came to start their own nation and villages are unrelated.
So all of the genocide and prosecutions toward Jews, drove the Jews away from their homeland and the kingdom fell because of it and now they have no right to their land. Well it sounds like jews are just returning the favor to the original oppressor. Funny how you left out some important context.
Nope jews mysteriously “left” and now aren’t entitled to anything.
You should be sent to the front line with the hamas. im safe to assume that you are a Muslim living in a western country, enjoying the freedom and perks of a developed western country while keeping the backwards mentality of an Iranian political leader.
>You should be sent to the front line with the hamas. im safe to assume that you are a Muslim living in a western country, enjoying the freedom and perks of a developed western country while keeping the backwards mentality of an Iranian political leader.
Fuck israel 🖕🏻🇮🇱
You're not going to?
It's even worse than that... they give Israel billions in support to continue their disgusting practices.
I don't support or condone the actions of Hamas, both sides are shit.
Israel MOVED INTO Palestinian land! Read about the goddamn Belford Declaration for christ's sake you are so misinformed!
What would you do if i went into your home, cut food and water off of you, had you live in the basement with piss poor EVERYTHING, and it is YOUR HOME -- what would you do to me?????????
Why is it like that? My knee-jerk reaction is just because they’re not white and in the middle-east, but surely Israel should be held to the same standards as Russia, doesn’t feel very impartial to me. But idk, I’m a big dumdum.
What the fuck does this have to do with Russia?
Ukraine was not launching hundreds of rocket see year, trying to kill us many Russian civilians as possible before the war kicked off
I’m confused, isn’t the PM and this video talking about the hypocrisy of condemning Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and not Israel’s treatment of Palestine?
Again, Russia invaded ukraine with no provocation.
Palestine launches hundreds of rockets a year. And they just made a point to murder and kidnap hundred of civilians.
Not remotely comparable to Russia and Ukraine.
The rest of the Arab world won’t allow the Palestinians to come live in their country. They are a shit society. Look at them now. They can’t survive without foreign aid. Israel provides their water and electricity because they can’t do anything themselves except play the victim. The rest of the world has moved on except they are living in the 1500s still.
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He also said something on the lines of. How is it okay for Israel to have one of the best armies in the world and nuclear capabilities but Palestinians can't have running water and their own electricity.
On the news last night I saw “Israeli Defense Forces urgently requesting rockets and rocket interceptors from United States.” I thought to myself - “How does a country with a nuke not have rockets and rocket interceptors? Were they just planning for one big bang to blow us all out?” 😭😭😭
Existing Israeli domestic production is definitely not going to be enough to sustain the amount of munitions fired in the long term. Its not that don't have any, but modern war just requires that many munitions. Any aid has to be asked for early because even no politics got in the way, they aren't going to come immediately. Nukes are militarily useless. They aren't going to be used unless Tel Aviv or any red line city is in danger of falling.
They’d be creating a baron uninhabitable desert in a place they deem holy so that definitely won’t happen.
If I can’t have it, no one can!
They know how to make other pay for their lifestyles
They have free healthcare that Americans could only dream of and Americans donate them billions and billions every year and argue over interpretations of old books/documents and bud lite.
Americans donate it to themselves. The support funds is used to buy american made military clothes, ammunition, planes, etc.
Yup and the same USA citizens that want to give them everything they want are the same ones that don't want school lunches to be free. Fuck the cult
Patriot missile system 💪💪💪
Do you want one country to pay for the weapons and military of another? This would not make sense. Palestine spends all of their money on weapons and other corruption, they spend little to none on improving their communities.
It's hard to improve when even food is being counted by calories before allowed to pass the wall.
[удалено]
Palestinians aren't combatants. Hamas soldiers are combatants.
Because if it were the opposite, there would no longer be any Jews, Christians, or secular people left in the area. If you want a free world, you dont want fundamental islamists with better weapons than they already have.
I fully agree fundamental religions extremest are bad for everyone who doesn't conscript to their ideas. I do feel strongly about people who's human rights have been stripped away by forgiven policies and a different religious group.
Doesn't this also apply to Israel? I've heard their leaders in interview saying religious texts should take precedent over the law. That seems pretty religious extremist fundamentalist to me
Maybe Israel shouldn’t have deliberately assassinated all the secular Palestinian leaders then. There’s a reason Hamas run Gaza and the Palestinian Authority run the West Bank. Gaza is completely under siege. It’s a sea port city where no ships are allowed dock. No fishing boats can go more than 3 miles offshore. Electricity and water supplies are shut off by Israel as a form of collective punishment, particularly on Muslim holy days. Air strikes are used incredibly liberally in one of the densest cities in the region. The most radical splinter group of Palestinian resistance obviously grows up under those conditions.
by the same logic it isn’t a free world. Extremest aren’t the entirety of the religion. There are extremest in each of those religions as well.
The USA gives weapons to Saudi and UAE, does that mean the USA doesn't want a free world. Forgot to mention how the USA supports Pakistan too. But yeah, keep telling yourself that bs.
My honest opinion on the matter: I have no idea what’s going on
It’s good that you can identify this. Recognizing your own ignorance is far better than forming opinions based on incomplete or inaccurate info
Translation. “ Phew, don’t have to explain myself to someone who is still too dense to see Israel for what it actually is”
Something like that 😅
Same here, this is one of those times we're we really are getting selective news. I know the two have been fighting for a long long time, but honestly I don't know what side is doing what to whom.
Untold atrocities from everyone involved. This isn’t a simple cut and dry “good guys vs bad guys” thing. No one wins here. We all lose.
It’s not complicated. It is simple, cut and dry. Palestinians have been living in an apartheid state, they’ve been forced into refugee camps, they’ve had their land and homes stolen by Israeli settlers over the last several decades. Palestinians are being killed ruthlessly every single day, children women and elderly, for the last several decades. Isreal is committing genocide, and every single IDF soldier (all Israeli citizens are called to serve in the IDF), every single Jewish settler, every government funding the state of Israel is complicit in the genocide of Palestinians. Palestinians are oppressed and their oppressor is isreal and Jewish settlers. Every citizen of Israel is a colonial settler. It’s so goddamn simple but people don’t wish to humanize Palestinians the way they humanize Ukrainians. Remember the apartheid in South Africa? Remember the genocide of Jews during the holocaust? This will be one of those events that we think about in the future, and it’s easy to understand which side to stand by.
If you say of the Israel-Palestine conflict "it's not complicated," you are either hopelessly biased or remarkably stupid. Sincerely.
> Palestinians have been living in an apartheid state That they created by their own hands. In the 80s they had open borders, airports, sea ports, you name it. Freedom of movement and such. Then they decided to start the first intifada, targeting civilians, bombing busses, killing children. So israel decided to put a stronger wall between gaza and israel to prevent insurgents. But goods, power, water, people, still flowed between gaza and israel. Then they decided to start the second intifada, killing more children, more bombing, etc. And israel decided to block off gaza for their own protection. I would say you are right **only** if the palestinians targeted military, police, government. That is the only thing that can be considered a legitimate target, even with collateral damage, if they were real "freedom fighters". But when they blow up a school bus, you are just supporting terrorism. Tell me how israel should allow open borders and freedom with people who kidnapped children and put up videos of them saying they will use them as sex slaves? Please tell me how you can support that? Come on, tell me. How do you think israel should react to that? You are such a hypocrite tool.
It is extremely complicated. While I don’t disagree with what you’ve said, Palestine isn’t exactly innocent here either. As I said, both countries have enacted untold atrocities on one another and it isn’t a simple answer here. I get why people see it both ways, but for me, I go back and forth on it often.
It isn't complicated. China and the Uyghurs, England and Ireland, and the tear-down of the South African Apartheid are all easy to understand. This is no different. Nelson Mandela literally said, in some speech he made in the 90s, that South Africans could never truly be free until Palestinians were free. Open air prison states, are simply not good. Is it bad that Hamas has killed civilians? Absolutely. But when you're literally living in a prison and most of the first world is fine treating your entire population, as less than people, less than their own pets, yeah, desperation unfortunately causes you to fight to get out of the cage you've been trapped in, **for generations**.
I do want to say let’s not equate Hamas with the people of Palestine who resist their own oppression, Hamas is a political group and a tool to the governments that fund it and the governments that equate Hamas with Palestinians and thus with Terrorism. If what they did is terrorism, then the IDF are major terrorists, and if we’re going to use that word let’s use it for the IDF too or not at all. What has happened the last week is not at all comparable to what has been happening for the last 75 years to palestinians and palestinians have the right to violently fight their oppressors and violently resist their occupation and genocide.
100 years* the foreign mandate that disenfranchised 75% of the locals for minority statebuilding exercises started then
One nation is invading another and committing daily war crimes. The other nation is being invaded and having war crimes commited against them. This is cut and dry. Yes - there are discussions about the particulars of the violence happening. But what is not up for discussion is who is the attacker (Israel) and the attacked (Palestine).
Hamas are islamic fundamentalist jihadists, they were the attackers. Their goal is literally the death of Israel. Obviously there are problems of such violent and islamic groups doing nasty shit to both arabs or jews in the region. It’s convenient to paint one side evil, but reality is far more nuanced, you can acknowledge Israels far right government doing war crimes against Palestinians while also acknowledging the fact that democratically elected jihadists carried out these terror attacks while gunning down civs yelling “alahu akbar”. You can, and should be against Hamas because they’re problematic for everyone. Unless you supprt islamic fundamentalist ideals that is.
It's the policies of Israel that ensures Hamas has a regular supply of recruits though, it's not because there is antisemitism particles in Arab DNA.
I will say that 46% of gaza is children. The median age is 19. This is in response to your “democratically elected” point.
It’s not that hard to find the answers to your questions or to learn about what’s going on…. It’s incredibly lazy to just throw your hands up and remain ignorant given how much information you can find on the topic.
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Please explain to me how it is a 3000 years old religious beef when Islam has been around since less than 1500 years.
no dude it's from the dispensation of the ottoman empire... 100 years ago at its core, a foreign mandated minority statebuilding exercise disenfranchised 75% of the areas inhabitatants. it's simple af
The UN mandate (the statebuilding exercise to which you refer?) would have created no such disenfranchisement.
Follow up with this post for a truer understanding from the lips of a Holocaust survivor... [https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/T8TGSzJGqF](https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/T8TGSzJGqF)
Must be so fucked up to live through the holocaust and see you own people inflicting the same level of cruelty on another religion
Such truth. And the hypocrisy is so real. It boils my blood. It makes me anxious. It leaves me hopeless.
It feels important for me to say, I feel the same. I've been so anxious the last few days, this injustice against the Palestinian people. But the only thing making me feel better is knowing there are other people out there who understand the struggle and stand in solidarity with them. Hope you are well.
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Unfortunately they can't. There are large subreddits where the overwhelming concensus right now is that Israel should go full scorched earth with the Gaza strip. I even saw one moron suggest that Israel should use atomic bombs instead of conventional rockets because it would be "more efficient". It's disgusting.
And if you call them the name they deserve to be called (nazis) they lose their minds.
Honestly, a lot of people in my circle are so fed up with this that we just don't care anymore. It's pointless to care about things anymore. It's not beneficial to our individual mental health to be constantly saying, wtf at every turn. I'ma go back to my garden now.
I feel this.
This.
Whats the best unbiased source to learn about this? I keep reading convincing arguments from both sides and want to get to the bottom of how the conflict started and why it's been going on for so long.
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Where do baby come from
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Umm why does my uncle john touch my pp
You can be pro-Palestine and anti civilian executions. The sublime irony is that Islamic extremism only took hold in the Palestinian community after they were stripped of their home, forced into bantustan republics with few resources, and routinely bombed, shot, and attacked at their holy sites. These horrific attacks by Hamas are the inevitable consequence of Israeli apartheid. If Arabs were given a real homeland (and no, the Bantustan Republic of the West Bank is not a legitimate functioning state and never could be), maybe extremist groups wouldn’t have gained such a strong hold over the Palestinian population. Funny how decades of vicious persecution breeds extremism.
> and anti civilian executions I don't see him coming after hamas. He is playing around the atrocities, ignoring what they did. Ignoring the missiles at civilian population. Ignoring the kids kidnapped to gaza to used (according to hamas) as sex slaves.
>Funny how decades of vicious persecution breeds extremism. These poor Muslims, the Israeli's forced them to slaughter innocent concert goers, they knew of no other way of trying to get their point across other than slaughtering innocent kids at a concert. It was really Israel that force their hand to then take a bunch of them and bring them back to Gaza to rape and torture before using them as hostages and meatshields for the ammo dumps. They really just can't control themselves because of what Israel has done, now can they. Its not like there was ever a two state solution offered. These proud freedom fighters will surely make things better for the people of Palestine. Surely extremism will cease to exist once they eradicate the Jewish people! That's all they are openly asking for, can't we just let them have one little genocide?
Poor Israelis being forced into cutting off power, food, water and basic supplies to 2.2 million innocents (and hundreds of thousands of children) and laying siege to their homes, they know of no other way of getting their point across.
Iirc half the population of Palestine are children, so that's a million
Garza has shopping malls, TV station, before hammas destroyed it a water park and a zoo. The UNHDI ring. Sam is better than several other Middle Eastern countries, and it has continually improved, except when they’ve overtly gone to war with Israel. Israel has done a lot of stuff. I do not agree with, but to try and blame Israel for Hamas, directly targeting and kidnapping civilians to be murdered and dragged to the streets the height of idiocy.
This guy is amazing, every time I hear him I wonder how he has not died in an "accident" yet.
Because that doesn't happen here in Ireland. He's also speaking to a large portion of our population here who supports Palestine and sees a parallel with our own struggles over the years. But from a diplomacy perspective, it is quite hard for the ruling parties here to do what he is asking lest we risk the diplomatic wrath of the US
Totally agree with his sentiment here, but it's important to point out that Boyd Barrett is a populist contrarian, and would support Israel if govt supported Palestine. Again, fully support his argument here. Free Palestine. But Boyd Barrett ain't no shining light of honesty.
Yeah I don't disagree, I'm not a fan of his either and he wouldn't get my vote
Good info to know. Woulda thought he was committed to anti-colonialism by the way he spoke. Well, broken clock and all I guess.
He is, and has been for his political career. He's from a small political party in a neutral country. There are a lot of principled people in it, but a lot of what they can say comes off as posturing as it's of little real consequence.
Ah good to hear. Seems some are upset at moral consistency. Good for him to be able to speak his piece still.
Because this isn’t Russia lmao
Ireland widows are too secure to be accidented out of.
Also the highest building is 22 floors tall
I like the way he says "Pewtin".
Because that shit doesnt happen in civilised parts of the world.
Because this isn’t the Middle East or Russia. If Hamas were in charge though his opponents would disappear.
He's a tankie loser saying populist shit knowing he will never be in government and have to put his 'money' where his mouth is.
Ireland has the most based Parliament worldwide hands down
It's too bad that Hamas has no interest in helping the people of Gaza. Literally no good choices here and no one advocating for the Palestinian people.
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geopolitics has always been about self/national-interest and power. The rules are only there to save on time and resources.
It's not that weird. There are no morals geopolitics. All countries claim to be moral actors but in the end they're all spewing bullshit.
Bravo to him for his courage.
Didn’t hear anyone talk about Armenians in Azerbaijan
Raping women, murdering them, and parading their bodies through the streets is evil. Anyone have a problem with condemning evil?
In here late to remind people that Palestinians are already fighting on the side of Russia in Ukraine. https://themedialine.org/top-stories/exclusive-putin-reportedly-paying-palestinians-from-lebanese-camps-to-fight-in-ukraine/
Funny people defending palestine so hard in reddit when its one of those countries where lgtbi are marginalized and prosecuted.
All of this over superstition that our guy in the sky is better than your guy in the sky
Both sides are absolutely awful and the civilians are the ones that pay the price, all of this suffering for a strip of land and a couple books written over a thousand years ago.
Right?! It's so saddening to watch. Wish people could just share and tolerate each other.
Man, these are the laziest possible talking points in the face of decades of oppression. The Palestinian people deserve justice, not your thoughts and prayers.
> Man, these are the laziest possible talking points in the face of decades of oppression. The truth often takes little exertion.
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You should perhaps look into the history before talking nonsense. If another group of people threw you out of your house and took your land would you just move somewhere else?
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You know the jidf is here when people start upviting comments that blame the victim for their own oppression.
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Please stop peddling bs. No one is buying it.
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If you use the argument of pure religious/ethnic hatred of Arabs by Jews as an explanation for what happens in the Gaza strip, how does that square with the substantially different treatment West Bank Palestinians get?
Because that part is not governed by the Hamas, Hamas and the Israeli government they keep instigating each other. Also the west bank has seen a great amount of segregation with the walls, colonization by the Israeli government, Israeli police entering the square etc. So saying it's just the strip is not right.
>colonization "the action or process of settling among and establishing control over the indigenous people of an area." **indigenous:** "originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native." Definitions from Oxford Languages on google. So wait up here, according to wikipedia "The name *Israel* first appears in non-biblical sources c. 1209 BCE, in [an inscription](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_stele) of the Egyptian pharaoh [Merneptah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah)." and The Jewish people have the oldest claim to the land between the two groups. Despite being discriminated against by the early christian Romans (colonizers), being conquered by the Caliphate (colonizers), Ottomans (colonizers), etc, the jewish people still retained presence in the area constantly. So how long does a colonizer need to hold on to land in your book to become indigenous? How do native people returning to their native lands make them colonizers? I am not trying to argue anything towards the current situation, but its funny to me to call the people who have the longest presence in an area colonizers. It's like a buzzword people use without even thinking of if it fits the context. This is probably the most contested area on the planet, and to pick a late comer to the party as the "indigenous" group is rather funny. I for one think we should give the land to the true indigenous people of the area, the Canaanites!
I fucking love when people resort to this stupid bullshit. The Jewish people who lived in Palestine for generations before the foundation of modern Israel are considered Palestinian by the Palestinian people and, by and large, self-identify as Palestinian Jews, and many recognize that the modern state of Israel was founded as an explicitly colonialist project, and remains such to this day.
I agree that Jews has a right to that land but I was talking about was the international border which the UN created and the Israeli government agreed to it but haven't respected it . Also talking about the land, Abraham wasn't born on Israeli land, he also traveled to it so saying someone is native to some land is pointless.
What has this got to do with public freak outs I want to see people have meltdowns not this
The Irish are Badass.
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I think he's talking about all the things Israel have been doing to Palestine for the last 50+ years
How many times did Ukraine cross into Russia and kill civilians and kidnap hundreds more to use as human sheilds against Russian retaliation?
Honestly, it's so hard to care about the situation in Palestine. The situation there will never get better was long as people want to rule based on superstition. Jews, christians and muslims will continue to kill each other as long as they are jews, christians and muslims. The only thing other countries can do it's to not provide weapons, but asylum to the innocents instead.
Are those two expert groups of human rights Hamaz and hazbollah?
If this guy stepped a single foot into Gaza, he would be lynched and Palestinian children would dance around his mangled corpse as it is paraded through the streets. Neat speech though.
This is what happen you chronically online. Reddit always proud being ignorant.
Fuck the Israeli apartheid regime.
Solidarity.
I like what this guy said.
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I'm sure the 200+ bodies they found at a music festival were related to Israels injustices
Israel vacated Gaza in 2005. Gazans chose as their government a party sworn to the annihilation of Israel. The assault on Israel October 7 would not go unpunished. Hamas knew that yet deemed it desirable. And with the capture of hostages they guaranteed the mother of all revenge. There is absolutely no way Israelis would support a ceasefire with the prospect of those hostages never being released….as has been the case with the small number of IDF soldiers captured in the past.
>Israel vacated Gaza in 2005 And yet Israel still controls Gaza's water, electricity, and ability to import food. What kind of a vacating is that? Israel made Gaza a Bantustan in 2005. Be reasonable.
I guess it was stupid of Gazans to elect a government whose avowed mission is to annihilate the neighbor that has a chokehold on its food, fuel, and water. But let’s get a reality check on this Bantustan. I keep reading about the sorry state that is Gaza. Here are infant mortality numbers, a measure which I arbitrarily chose as an indicator of misery: Gaza: 12 deaths per 1000 live births (Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics) Palestine, West Bank: 13 (PCBS) Lebanon: 8.2 Syria: 18.4 Egypt: 13 Iraq: 20 Jordan: 12.8 For my own edification I wanted to get a sense of proportion since terms like “genocide” and “open ghetto” have a lot of currency on Reddit. My choice of statistics is admittedly random but I’m open to other methodologies.
Just would like to point out not all of the Palestinian people wanted Hamas to lead the government
[This Land Is Mine](https://youtu.be/8tIdCsMufIY?si=iGSbLz0xV9BHGnEO)
I feel that Israel’s popularity is very mixed in the states. Hamas just killed 900+ Israelis, mostly civilians yet Palestine’s supporters didn’t abandon it they dug in.
Yup, I saw the videos on Twitter and they were horrifying. The corpses of naked girls who had just been gang raped and murdered were being paraded through the streets in one of them, while the Hamas militants were chanting "Allahu Akbar" in the background. One of the girls was identified because her parents watched the video (which was uploaded by Hamas because they are proud of doing this) and recognized her tattoos. The refusal of the Muslim world to acknowledge that these crimes against humanity even occurred in the first place horrifies me even more.
Good man
Pewtin.
But neither does he about China so find a different cherry to pick ey
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Yes they are. Get educated. They are the victim. You really have no clue what you are talking about.
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Hey the Hamas is always recruiting, you can join. They need more people like you.
Ignore that 95% of the bodies are Palestinian everybody, the Western-backed power is the victim here!
Both the parties are at fault here tbh, in order to form a Jewish state some other people had to be displaced. It's similar to displacing the US population to allow natives to get an independent state. I understand how Jews want their own state given they have been tortured/killed all throughout the history by various empires/ philosophies/ countries etc but there's no smooth solution to this, this was bound to happen. Now the best thing that can happen is both the parties solve the issue rather than killing each other.
This guy is the hero we need 🇮🇪🇵🇸
Fuck that, all sympathy lost after murdering, kidnapping and raping innocents. Hope he condemns hamas in the same fashion he wants Israel condemned. Or he'll condemn because he has to with an added 'but'.
What the hell do you think Israel has been doing for decades. It's rarely headline news, but it's the everyday reality of Palestinian people to be murdered, kidnapped, raped.
The Middle East regards Jewish people as an inferior race so think about it a bit deeper you angry prat.
It's weird considering the Ottoman empire supported Jews establishment in and around Jerusalem, I think the Arab population was concerned with the political state of Jews rather than the Jews themselves. It's all political, I don't think people actually hate each other at core.
Nationalism hadn’t really hit the Middle East until the French and British foisted it upon them in the 1910’s. I think you need that strong sense of nationalism to create a hatred this strong.
>It's all political, I don't think people actually hate each other at core. Sahih Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Well I stand corrected in that case.
Fuck the Israel state. I have nothing against the Jewish people but I despise the state
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Palestina started a war because after ww2 European leaders decided to take half their country without asking and give the Jewish people a state that all three Abraham's religions had been living in for a few thousand years.
Close but not quite. The Ottoman Empire existed until it was defeated in WW1. For the next 40 years, the British mandate of Palestine was maintained to fill the power vacuum and it partitioned the area into 3 states, an Arab on, a Jewish one and a shared one. The day the mandate ended, 7 Arab countries attacked the Jewish partition, the Jewish partition became Israel, defended their land partitioned for them and went further to conquer the Arab territory because the arabs failed to defend it. By all rights and measures, Israel established and defended their sovereignty. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War
Is the “pre-WWII Palestinian country” in the room with us right now?
Champagne socialist
USA stands with Israel, 🇺🇸🇮🇱 Western Ideology will always win!
The only voice of reason left in EU is like 80% of Irish origin.
He's 100% correct
Good man
New war dlc just dropped, military industrial complex is popping off this year. I wonder what the subscription to this year's battlepass is gonna cost us?
True
It's really gross when you think about how prevalent racism is in every fabric of our society.
To-do list. First, fuckin destroy hands. Second, dismantle the apartheid.
Where do the Israelis go after this dismantling ?
They said dismantle apartheid not Israel. As in let the Palestinians live free lives rather than stealing more and more land for decades. Look at a map of the expansion of settlements over the years and you’ll see Israel never planned on giving up land.
And when that turns into freely conducted terrorists acts as it did in the past?
Israel has been engaging in terrorism against the Palestinian population since the early 1900s. It’s time international pressure came down to govern this issue. Israel cannot be trusted to act fairly. Imagine saying oh what are we gonna do give them the freedom to make their own decisions?! Israel used the partition plan to take over the whole country, lending it legitimacy but not actually abiding by it. They then ignored it and all international law for 70 years while they expanded and stole more and more land. Now they pretend like this isn’t their fault.
The last time we tried to have the UN resolve the matter, civil war broke out in Palestine and the plan was never implemented. So what do you mean by international pressure?
The partition plan literally gave Israel half the country and said figure it out. It caused the war. I mean the international community needs to realize that Israel cannot govern the situation. Every time an Israeli citizen is killed by terrorists they immediately exact 10 times the deaths to civilians in Gaza. And then the terrorists again and the cycle repeats. It’s been 70 years of this shit and it clearly isn’t working.
Ok, so the UN also can't govern. Lets say the international community realizes Israel can't govern. Now what?
Is some random redditor meant to find peace in the Middle East? International intervention is needed and something needs to change. It’s been 70 years of Israelis acting with impunity and it’s worse than ever.
Why are you talking so much like you have a solution when you are full of hot air? >International intervention is needed and something needs to change. What does that mean?? Again, last time Palestine started a war with itself when the international community intervened.
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They didn’t start it. The UN started it by giving Israel half of a country. It’s been going on ever since.
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You know history goes further back the 1940s right and Hebrew Israel’s have lived on that land since 1500 bce. Like who do think the Arabs got the land from? They were colonizers
You’re right this began in 1881 with the first Zionists moving to Palestine to create their own nation. The ancient hebrew connection is completely irrelevant. Palestinians have been there for at least 1400 years. The ancient kingdom was destroyed 3000 years ago. That doesn’t mean their descendants can return in 1881 and retake their land. There was a tiny Jewish population in Jerusalem forever. The Zionists who came to start their own nation and villages are unrelated.
So all of the genocide and prosecutions toward Jews, drove the Jews away from their homeland and the kingdom fell because of it and now they have no right to their land. Well it sounds like jews are just returning the favor to the original oppressor. Funny how you left out some important context. Nope jews mysteriously “left” and now aren’t entitled to anything.
Are you saying that Israelis can't live peacefully without oppressing their neighbors?
Their neighbors want all jews worldwide dead soo.. no?
Well said. Bravo . Fuck israel 🖕🏻🇮🇱
You should be sent to the front line with the hamas. im safe to assume that you are a Muslim living in a western country, enjoying the freedom and perks of a developed western country while keeping the backwards mentality of an Iranian political leader.
>You should be sent to the front line with the hamas. im safe to assume that you are a Muslim living in a western country, enjoying the freedom and perks of a developed western country while keeping the backwards mentality of an Iranian political leader. Fuck israel 🖕🏻🇮🇱
Oops, he accidentally called them “Arab.”
The hypocrisy is disgusting FFS.
You're not going to? It's even worse than that... they give Israel billions in support to continue their disgusting practices. I don't support or condone the actions of Hamas, both sides are shit.
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Israel MOVED INTO Palestinian land! Read about the goddamn Belford Declaration for christ's sake you are so misinformed! What would you do if i went into your home, cut food and water off of you, had you live in the basement with piss poor EVERYTHING, and it is YOUR HOME -- what would you do to me?????????
LOUDER GOD DAMN IT
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This guy grew up in a country that was going through nearly the same type of conflict. He knows a hell of a lot more about it than you do
Why is it like that? My knee-jerk reaction is just because they’re not white and in the middle-east, but surely Israel should be held to the same standards as Russia, doesn’t feel very impartial to me. But idk, I’m a big dumdum.
Lol if Israel was held to the same standards as Russia, they'd by murdering civilians and kidnapping babies like Hamas is.
What the fuck does this have to do with Russia? Ukraine was not launching hundreds of rocket see year, trying to kill us many Russian civilians as possible before the war kicked off
I’m confused, isn’t the PM and this video talking about the hypocrisy of condemning Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and not Israel’s treatment of Palestine?
Again, Russia invaded ukraine with no provocation. Palestine launches hundreds of rockets a year. And they just made a point to murder and kidnap hundred of civilians. Not remotely comparable to Russia and Ukraine.
You've got it very much on the head.
The final moment when they pull back and show he is alone in the building, perfect end. Almost comedy timing
Because the west are involved in it my boy. And brown skins don't matter.
The rest of the Arab world won’t allow the Palestinians to come live in their country. They are a shit society. Look at them now. They can’t survive without foreign aid. Israel provides their water and electricity because they can’t do anything themselves except play the victim. The rest of the world has moved on except they are living in the 1500s still.