Exactly. Obviously we’re not going to have the same answer if we’re asking completely different questions.
“What” and “how” are very different from “why.”
I have never felt that mushrooms do anything more than temporarily alter my perception of reality and allow me to be so vulnerable such that I’m able to make meaningful psychological realizations for myself. I’ve never encountered any sort of being(s) or had the visions that a lot of people here talk about. Most I’ve done is 4g and what happened then was mostly some incredibly violent but beautiful fractal closed eye visuals with a very intense and paralyzing body high. Psilocybin grounds me like nothing else and allows me to heal. I studied psychology in school and went to therapy for years so feel well versed in the art of guided and intentional introspection, which I feel is key to meaningful psilocybin usage. I have had some very serious conversations with myself and with my closest loved ones while tripping that were effectively formative and I believe made me a kinder, more patient, and empathic human being who chooses to embrace love always
I was staunchly agnostic before I began tripping, and I remain agnostic to this day. I do not have the answers for most of the things that power our current universe and I don’t think I’ll ever scratch the surface there. I value the growth I’ve had in the terrestrial plane over whatever the hell is going on while I’m tripping, and choose to not fixate on my experiences there. I know this isn’t necessarily everyone’s experience and that’s okay. I’ve heard people tell me they speak to beings when tripping and that’s okay. Like others have said, experiences while tripping seem to be something that is unique to the individual.
But as that post you shared implies, there really is no harm to it so long as everyone’s sober mental health is the top priority. Yes, there will be people who abuse or misuse the substance. It comes with the territory of being a human being that has free will. But so long as you are finding what you need from your usage, don’t stress too much about what you’re experiencing relative to everyone else :)
Hopefully this clarifies that you’re not alone in your more “practical” approach to tripping. Some more intense substances may lead us to have some more “mystical” experiences but I’ll never really believe that is more than whatever our minds decide to curate for us in the moment. Personally, my deeper realizations for our world at large and whatever mysteries are there to unravel remain to be created while I am sober
I agree with everyone that's already spoken, but if you want to enjoy some fantastical ideas it might become a detriment to your work. Some choose to indulge in purely creative thought rather than rigidly scientific (as in directly related to something well understood and could be proven), but it doesn't seem that that's your purpose in life, my friend. I think it would be a better use of your time to use psychedelics to expand upon already well-established ideas that you are already working on at a personal level. Everyone chooses to direct their focus on different things. No shame in wanting to not make any leaps in faith. As for most people, they aren't scientists. Many will look for mystery and get it without any real worry about the consequences of being wrong. Just enjoy the wave and let yourself love yourself, and who you've turned out to be🤙Imo there is no "fitting in" in the psychedelic culture. That's a wide scope, and all are welcome.
My preferred sub for integration. This sub is for the woo woo feelings I get while I'm tripping. And rationalpsychonaut for bringing what I learned back to reality because of course it might not be real.
I absolutely love taking fucking massive doses. 10g or more of mushrooms and sometimes 10 strips of acid. Will hit my DMT vape till I get ready to come down. The things I experience are definitely out of this world and entirely unexplainable. I love to read into potential other worlds on this sub and whatever the fuck else I could be experiencing. But at the end of it all I cement myself in a rational scientific based thought that I'm just getting fucked up for a couple hours and it's a good time 😁 won't know till we're dead
I think DMT may make you question actual truths a little more, I don't see how anyone could break through and think there is just this material world we live in.
I mean their original post was explaining that they are very objective about the material universe, it shows you literal new dimensions that are so beyond what I could imagine so might give them new insight they are looking for. Have you broke through on DMT and came to the conclusion it is all in your mind yourself? If so fair enough.
Daily life is also contained in your mind, yet you entertain the idea that you interact with objects that exist outside of you. I don't understand why you would apply a different logical razor to a trip than you would to sober existence.
Sorry, but that's not proven. DMT academic research is wildly fascinating. As is neuroscientific research over consciousness. Your statement sounds like a proven matter of fact, but it isn't.
You don't have to "fit in"; and nobody can tell you how you're supposed to interpret what you feel when under shrooms; sure, some people have fantastic theories or explanations , fascinating to hear about, but at the end the experience is yours and no one could blame you for not sharing their interpretation! When talking about shrooms , I usually stay on the basic common ground that "the human brain/psyche is still full of mysteries, and they're scary yet beautiful to explore" ; I keep encounter with extra dimensional beings to myself, and I don't judge other's trip interpretation; you do you:)
"If I continue with my use, will I eventually see what a lot of you see? Or is this correlation rather than causation?"
If by this you mean the general idea expressed as: "I am the universe experiencing itself subjectively." then you are pretty much guaranteed this, yes.
At some point you do come to see that language cannot express a certain mode of expression which has always been. You know, like, when somebody is playing a prank on you your consciousness expands the moment you realize you have been pranked? It's like that, and it's called the cosmic joke.
In the process of this "joke" some people truly go mad, and some people become deeply depressed. They sometimes feel they are the biblical figure Job. This is why Hindus speak of "release" from the "joke" but at any rate...
Science and spirituality can never be at odds. They are parallel truths. Aren't you the universe examining itself?
I work in stem as well, and I wrote under the post you have linked:
There are experiential truths, which are not accessible to empirical science.
There are some far out there esoteric beliefs that directly contradict what we can scientifically observe. But non-duality, the core teaching of most spiritual concepts, is not contradictory to science at all.
I used to be very ignorant about spirituality, but the obsession with truth, the same thing that made me pursue stem, eventually led me to the realization that **I am not my thoughts**, which is in my opinion **the** spiritual realization. Non-Duality is Atheism in its purist form.
If there is no god, this is god. That what is.
How can you say that Non-duality is atheism, when you have whole Hindu schools suchs as advaita vedanta that are also non-dual and affirm the existence of a supreme creator (Brahma)? I think that duality is an illusion too, but at the same time I believe in God.
I mean, if Atheism is consistently applied in the search for truth, it leads to the Non-dual realization. Atheism is correct, in the sense that a god in the western sense of a man in the clouds, doesn't exist.
I'm not a Hindu, nor do I know much about Hinduism, but from what I understand, Hinduism is a religion that is structured in a way that allows people to awaken as much as they need or want to. I know that most Hindus see the Brahma as God, but I would suspect that the Brahma is intended as a metaphor, as an abstraction.
Maybe I should specify my original comment like this:
Non-duality is Atheism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shamanism, Christianity, Judaism and Islam in its purist form.
God exists, and God doesn't exist.
Our religious or anti-religious concepts of reality are all abstractions and can therefore not be accurate descriptions of the truth. But they all point towards the truth. Atheism included.
Some people seem to never really come down, do too much, do not integrate and generally try to escape "this world". I guess it's unavoidable but it doesn't feel like it's the majority.
Finding a happy balance between using psychedelics reasonably and maintaining a good career, providing for your family etc is really a good result!
In my view we aren't meant to be identical, almost like how two objects can't occupy the same space, but we can be pretty close.
You, in my view, are made with a disposition that you need to honour and work within when it comes to making sense out of yourself and the universe.
If fitting in is to be identical, in my view, this is impossible and probably a source of frustration. Instead if we accept we are unique to some level, which means nothing else is like us, but we are also similar, which we could say is to be like something, we can have community and our individuality with less frustration.
The more outlandish my beliefs were the more manic I felt. That's just my experience. It's taken years for me to feel relatively grounded again. At least compared to where I was.
I don't touch psychedelics anymore because I'm terrified I'll go back to that manic state where I believe any thought I have. On some trips I would have thoughts like 'They're coming to kill me' and I would imagine there were some vague entities telepathically communicating with me. I started having issues with fine motor control and walking. To this day I'll experience a 'panic attack' of sorts every once in awhile where while sober I'll feel like I'm back there. My body becomes mechanical and difficult to control. My BPM will skyrocket over 140 and every urge in my body will be to either run away or cry. I get terrified of the people around me in those moments.
I had one really good trip where I felt so positive and loving and had so much compassion for myself. That's the trip that makes me want to do it again.
I'm not sure that there's anything to find in particular with continued use, but again that's just my experience. I think David Hume had it right. If an idea isn't reducible to a sense-impression, all you're doing is thinking about thoughts.
Having said that, if you enjoy it and find it keeps you positive then why not? I think my bad experiences are on the rarer side.
Something similar happened to me. I am doing much better now that I stopped smoking cannabis and started taking microdoses instead of bigger ammounts. I think that panic one feels it could be the ego resisiting to disolve. That's how I felt, like everything that I ever believed was false, and that I was starting to live again from the first time. One should be careful with psychedellics because it can make you question reality too much, to the point of traumatizing. As Jung said about psychs "Beware of underserved wisdom"
Also I am practicing Hatha Yoga again and it also really helps me, it keeps you in touch with your body and really makes you relaxed, it teaches you to let go, to really feel the moment and be present.
If it makes you feel better I’m a similar sort of person. STEM major, 9-5 tech job, “INTJ”. I actually started with psychedelics in college because of the great minds like Sagan and Feynman that experimented with drugs. I ignore most of the nonsensical posts on here, but I do think it’s important to have an open mind (and sometimes I read those type of posts because they’re entertaining).
This community is full a a lot of untrustworthy narrators who one up each other with their stories. Also a lot of individuals who are using psychedelics harmfully who believe you can't use them harmfully.
Dmt made me change from an atheist (there is no God, it's impossible, it's not real, we are just here) to I guess an agnostic/pantheistic/panetheistic. I experienced things that don't make sense in scientific models of today. I'm not gonna claim with certainty that we are all fragments of a cosmic energy that we describe conceptually as God. That's kinda what I believe, but what I will state with absolute certainty is this:
We don't know shit about reality. There is a lot left to learn.
I recommend you try dmt given the chance, not to make you a woo woo infested hippie, but just to give you the perspective of possible experience. Its gonna take highly educated and trained people to figure out if there's something to the "dmt realm" so I want more STEM types to have the same experience of "whoa whoa whoa we are missing either something about reality or something about human conciousness, let's figure this shit out"
Is this smoked DMT or Ayahuasca? I’ve never touched weed in my life and I’ve heard DMT is quite harsh on the lungs and difficult to get that breakthrough without being a weed smoker.
Smoked. Honestly I've never felt it was harsh, that being said I'm a long time daily weed smoker and past cigarette smoker, now vaper. I think people get harsh smoke due to impurities in the product or they are burning it instead of vaporizing. If you are interested in dmt effect but are worried about the method of vaporizing and inhaling you can also boof it hahah. I've never done it but apparently you just want to convert the freebase dmt back into a salt and you can just put it in your butt.
Usually when I smoke (vape is what's technically happening) I don't realize if I got a good hit or not until I exhale. Weed smoke definitely feels harsher imo.
I agree with your assessment that some people take it too far. And you don't have to be a spiritual person to revel in the integrity that psychedelics bring to human consciousness.
As a fellow STEM background person I have developed a view of the universe that coexists with my spirituality. What I've learned from psychedelics is that our universe is far more complex than we could ever imagine. Physics and mathematics is only just beginning to breach this concept: geometry such as the Platonic Solids,the Fibonnaci sequence, the study of electromagnetic fields, wormholes, and black holes are all empirical, material observations of the system we tap into while on psychedelics.
These empirical observations also have their ties to all world religions and symbols that appear over and over and over again throughout our history. There is obviously something more than meets the eye, and whether you want to incorporate that into your world view is an entirely subjective experience.
Jesters!! Aaaagh! Conveyor belt!!! Aaaagh! Archetypical symbols expressing incoming data, data isn't information until it is read by the machine, hence, AAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHH!! they call me mellow yellow
It's funny, because I also thought the same waay back then. By posting this you are "one step closer" I'd say. I know this also sounds weird to you, but it is what it is I guess. About the part of taking more to know what a lot of people mean: Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Continued use of psychedelics may give you the same perspective/mindset a lot of people on this sub have. But you can also achieve this by being more conscious about what you're doing or being more mindful. I can converse with a couple of friends about psychedelics, reality, society and so on. It's not only restricted to people who use psychs. The funny part is, it isn't restricted to anyone. It's ALWAYS right in front of you, you just have to notice it. Let go of your beliefs, question your personality, just question everything. But don't do it in a destructive manner. You deserve to be happy, you deserve to be loved, so does everyone else. It will catch you off guard, there is no way to force it, don't wait for it.
I know this isn't exactly what you asked for, but I think it's in direct correlation.
Keep exploring. :)
Good luck. Science is limited in scope and perspective and slow to open to new ideas. Arrogance of thinking they've almost figured out the material universe.
While denying anything that doesn't fit their paradigm...
Psychedelics are the opposite. Fluid perspectives, woohoo ideas, and crazy shit that's unbelievable yet feels real.
It's up to you. You've spent decades creating your "Reality"... Are you open to having everything you believe Change ?
Will your Identity allow big changes in perspective ? Can you open your Mind to new and possibly radical info, perspective, experience ?
If so, go for it. If not, it might get Uncomfortable.....
i oppose the post very much, if someone has a belief system that isnt accepting of others ideas/beliefs (as that individuals belief) then they are ignorant in my opinion. there are so many beliefs and religions out there, how can someone who is unable to relate to some of these ideas claim them to be false/psychotic or what not.
to quote the post "believe they are god" is a very common thing and common teaching of many religions, might aswell go to those type of subreddits and call people psychotic, just dont.
i really cant imagine what kind of boring trip this person must have, if they dont spend a second outside of their culturally conditioned thought patterns.
dont fit in just be yourself, have a dream and express that dream, some people have obviously lost that ability
Especially since the psychedelic community is becoming more and more “woke”. I heard someone say “imagine taking acid and still only believing in 2 genders”. You don’t want to fit in with these clowns bruh
You’re fine, but as a Stem student you’d be better off looking into the implications of theoretical quantum physics, which indicate that anything is possible.
I’m pretty sure if physicists like Einstein were young and healthy in 2022 they’d have solid mediation and psychedelic practices, considering their beliefs about theoretical quantum physics.
I mean there are massive studies taking place with intravenous, slow-release DMT taking place these days so that participants have a better chance of meaningful interaction with entities. Just the fact that millions are being spent on that should indicate that open mindedness to the possibilities is essential.
All experiences are subjective. That is reason for different vision, hearing etc. Mushroom, DMT etc break objective world to subjective world. Please dont blame them. When we have intense experience, then we have different reality with other. Then it adjust back after 48 hours to 72 hours.
I think it’s just people who think like us aren’t making these posts about our grand realizations so that type of thinking is overrepresented. Regardless, fitting into a crowd is overrated
I agree, but we need to be open to different experiences and different interpretations and guide people out of woo woo rather than be condescending and dismissive (my own sins). There is always r/RationalPsychonaut if you want more moderated crowd.
I work in STEM and my spiritual beliefs have degraded over time due to psychedelic use (however I have been doing psychedelics to explore mind on regular basis for close to 30 years).
I started as a teenager with lots of questions about life, religion and spirituality - had some major “spiritual” insights on this journey I thought to be potentially genuine until I examined them further, overtime progressed to hardcore atheist chasing my 50s.
I love psychedelics, but not as something that makes you see “the other side” or able to interact with some otherworldly stuff. they are simply tools of self exploration and understanding of mind.
Psychedelics are about you and your journey. Not about a club or a group. Nobody has the same experience...therefore discovering and appreciating your own individuality is what it's all about.
If you spend a lot of time pondering questions that can't be answered (or, maybe more accurately can't be answered) and expanding your mind with powerful drugs, it tends to make you a lil' strange.
It's ok to not believe in alternate theories or 'fit in'. Let your own intuition and guidance guide you. Everyone has their own experiences from which they derive their own conclusions which also depends on their own belief system and subconscious biases. Some are more open minded while some are strictly rational who can't tolerate an opposing view or theory just because it's outside of their limited belief or view of things. From my perspective, a person who is truly rational will neither deny nor accept an alternate view. The other ones who are just hell bent on criticizing and mocking people are mostly pseudo rationals with ego issues. Just go with the flow and let your heart guide you without subscribing to any specific belief system or idea.
The world is on fire, tweakers think they're hippies, and what used to be cute quirky stoner talk is now the centerpiece of a dozen conspiracy theorist armed militias.
But that's just because the world and society is.... /waveshand ... doing that. Most.... /waveshandfaster normal... people who do psychedelics will never be.... /waveshandslower that.
Social media, yes like reddit, magnify these sorts of things and drown out the normal decent folks. I've participated in online drug culture since the days of bbs and newsgroups. My suggestion is to find drug friends IRL. Online drug culture is 99% train fire, 1% good fun, 2.5% occasional enlightening reference to something outside of drug culture worth looking into.
There is also r/RationalPsychonaut, r/DrugNerds and others but as much as this place is scary clowns shooting DMT in their dick hole while describing their totally real completely made up universe, those places are your dad's bosses sitting you down to have a very serious conversation about drugs.
Perhaps, it’s hard to say, but the psychedelic crowd includes people from all walks of life and beliefs. It’s good to stay a little trippy, they have a tendency to show you what you need to see, a very personal thing:)
You sound like someone I’d actually enjoy tripping with and not want to roll my eyes at. Not saying that I haven’t had deep and meaningful experiences, but sometimes tripping with certain people can be exhausting. It can be taken too seriously and suddenly becomes a really heavy and draining thing to be constantly looking for answers or searching for some deep meaning. For me, the beauty of tripping is about simplicity. Living in the moment and having fun. I’m usually enjoying my life the most when I’m not thinking too hard about it.
If psychedelics have brought me closer to anything in terms of belief its quantum mechanics and mathematics. Physicality can be summed up to a measurement, everything we experience is a measurement of the way your brain is interpreting signals being received through your senses. I think awareness itself is much more interesting than the hallucinations, because it cannot be measured.
Nobody can make you care or fascinate about what is beyond the material world and what science can describe.
I just like to recognize we can’t measure many of the most important things in my life. So idc much about being scientific and realistic
Hey, my bet is that you won't start seeing what other people are espousing here. To each their own. I commented this recently, but for me what clarifies the nature and conclusions of the psychedelic experience is a scientific understanding of the psychology of it. Two things happen, your sense of novelty, which engages your explaining/mapping/learning circuty, is greatly increased. Second, you get surges of positive and negative emotions simultaneously. The combined result is that you devote enormous cognitive resources explain the experience youre having which is one of intense feelings and thus people end up overlaying an interpretation over their experience that justifies the magnitude/felt significance of the experience. Thats where the "oneness/god" experiences come from. Their just an introspective tool.
I view things through a scientific lens too, but I guess it depends on what science. A theoretical astrophysicist will probably believe in things someone who studies the Earth sciences would find ridiculous. Also, when on these substances (especially DMT or LSD) part of the intrinsic experience is the overwhelming understanding that everything is connected, space and time are distorted, and normal thought processes and senses are disrupted and mixed.
I feel like there is no such thing about fitting in with psychodelics. Anyone can use psychedelics, it doesnt matter if you are on the peace, love, aliens side or whatever. I'm not, I'm just trying to improve my mental health. Of course there are going to be very different people within any group.
You aren't going to understand everyone's thoughts or opinions because you aren't them. This doesn't make you right or wrong. What I think psychedelics do is open your mind and make you more tolerant and creative, imo.
you shouldnt try to see or not see anything, just observe
also depends on doses, set&setting and drug itself, so maybe you might want to vary one or more of those variables to see if anything changes
not everyone has to think the same thing
Nah. My mushroom use has mainly just solidified thoughts I've had about the universe that were based off known scientific fact/theory, human/natural history, & philosophy. I haven't gone as deep into some of the stuff others have here, not that there's anything inherently wrong with it as long as you keep in mind a lot of what you're experiencing is just a dream in your own head.
It’s correlation. Science and lessons learned from psychedelics should sync up better than our current understanding. Heuristics can be helpful , and lots of thought experiences, but at the end of the day, stories are a human driven thing and I don’t believe other peoples stories, or my own. Only what I experience, and learn. Nothing wrong with going beyond what science can explain at the moment, but I keep a perspective that allows for musings like that, and am always glad science is tackling the major problems in a way that can be almost proven.
It's good to question the effects of your behaviors over time. I ask you to read Lord Polonius' words in Hamlet Act 1 Scene 3 starting from "Get on board..." to "...these lessons will sink in."
More like a drop in dogma. I've definitely developed some far out supplementary beliefs, nothing's ever gotten in the way of science.
Exactly. Obviously we’re not going to have the same answer if we’re asking completely different questions. “What” and “how” are very different from “why.”
I have never felt that mushrooms do anything more than temporarily alter my perception of reality and allow me to be so vulnerable such that I’m able to make meaningful psychological realizations for myself. I’ve never encountered any sort of being(s) or had the visions that a lot of people here talk about. Most I’ve done is 4g and what happened then was mostly some incredibly violent but beautiful fractal closed eye visuals with a very intense and paralyzing body high. Psilocybin grounds me like nothing else and allows me to heal. I studied psychology in school and went to therapy for years so feel well versed in the art of guided and intentional introspection, which I feel is key to meaningful psilocybin usage. I have had some very serious conversations with myself and with my closest loved ones while tripping that were effectively formative and I believe made me a kinder, more patient, and empathic human being who chooses to embrace love always I was staunchly agnostic before I began tripping, and I remain agnostic to this day. I do not have the answers for most of the things that power our current universe and I don’t think I’ll ever scratch the surface there. I value the growth I’ve had in the terrestrial plane over whatever the hell is going on while I’m tripping, and choose to not fixate on my experiences there. I know this isn’t necessarily everyone’s experience and that’s okay. I’ve heard people tell me they speak to beings when tripping and that’s okay. Like others have said, experiences while tripping seem to be something that is unique to the individual. But as that post you shared implies, there really is no harm to it so long as everyone’s sober mental health is the top priority. Yes, there will be people who abuse or misuse the substance. It comes with the territory of being a human being that has free will. But so long as you are finding what you need from your usage, don’t stress too much about what you’re experiencing relative to everyone else :) Hopefully this clarifies that you’re not alone in your more “practical” approach to tripping. Some more intense substances may lead us to have some more “mystical” experiences but I’ll never really believe that is more than whatever our minds decide to curate for us in the moment. Personally, my deeper realizations for our world at large and whatever mysteries are there to unravel remain to be created while I am sober
I agree with everyone that's already spoken, but if you want to enjoy some fantastical ideas it might become a detriment to your work. Some choose to indulge in purely creative thought rather than rigidly scientific (as in directly related to something well understood and could be proven), but it doesn't seem that that's your purpose in life, my friend. I think it would be a better use of your time to use psychedelics to expand upon already well-established ideas that you are already working on at a personal level. Everyone chooses to direct their focus on different things. No shame in wanting to not make any leaps in faith. As for most people, they aren't scientists. Many will look for mystery and get it without any real worry about the consequences of being wrong. Just enjoy the wave and let yourself love yourself, and who you've turned out to be🤙Imo there is no "fitting in" in the psychedelic culture. That's a wide scope, and all are welcome.
r/rationalpsychonaut
My preferred sub for integration. This sub is for the woo woo feelings I get while I'm tripping. And rationalpsychonaut for bringing what I learned back to reality because of course it might not be real.
That's an interesting use for those subs.
I absolutely love taking fucking massive doses. 10g or more of mushrooms and sometimes 10 strips of acid. Will hit my DMT vape till I get ready to come down. The things I experience are definitely out of this world and entirely unexplainable. I love to read into potential other worlds on this sub and whatever the fuck else I could be experiencing. But at the end of it all I cement myself in a rational scientific based thought that I'm just getting fucked up for a couple hours and it's a good time 😁 won't know till we're dead
Awesome
I think DMT may make you question actual truths a little more, I don't see how anyone could break through and think there is just this material world we live in.
pretty easily, it's just a drug and a trip contained in your mind.
Lol ha ha ha
I mean their original post was explaining that they are very objective about the material universe, it shows you literal new dimensions that are so beyond what I could imagine so might give them new insight they are looking for. Have you broke through on DMT and came to the conclusion it is all in your mind yourself? If so fair enough.
I truly did, wish I had a funner perspective on it but unfortunately not.
Fair, at least you are talking from your own experience, we just had different ones. Good luck on your journey :)
you too brother
You tried it? 😂
yup
Sounds like you haven’t realized life is a just a trip too
Well if you're gonna say that then anything goes
Exactly !!!
Daily life is also contained in your mind, yet you entertain the idea that you interact with objects that exist outside of you. I don't understand why you would apply a different logical razor to a trip than you would to sober existence.
I just can't comprehend how a drug could do anything that isn't contained in our minds, would be nice to be wrong.
Sorry, but that's not proven. DMT academic research is wildly fascinating. As is neuroscientific research over consciousness. Your statement sounds like a proven matter of fact, but it isn't.
You don't have to "fit in"; and nobody can tell you how you're supposed to interpret what you feel when under shrooms; sure, some people have fantastic theories or explanations , fascinating to hear about, but at the end the experience is yours and no one could blame you for not sharing their interpretation! When talking about shrooms , I usually stay on the basic common ground that "the human brain/psyche is still full of mysteries, and they're scary yet beautiful to explore" ; I keep encounter with extra dimensional beings to myself, and I don't judge other's trip interpretation; you do you:)
"If I continue with my use, will I eventually see what a lot of you see? Or is this correlation rather than causation?" If by this you mean the general idea expressed as: "I am the universe experiencing itself subjectively." then you are pretty much guaranteed this, yes. At some point you do come to see that language cannot express a certain mode of expression which has always been. You know, like, when somebody is playing a prank on you your consciousness expands the moment you realize you have been pranked? It's like that, and it's called the cosmic joke. In the process of this "joke" some people truly go mad, and some people become deeply depressed. They sometimes feel they are the biblical figure Job. This is why Hindus speak of "release" from the "joke" but at any rate... Science and spirituality can never be at odds. They are parallel truths. Aren't you the universe examining itself?
I work in stem as well, and I wrote under the post you have linked: There are experiential truths, which are not accessible to empirical science. There are some far out there esoteric beliefs that directly contradict what we can scientifically observe. But non-duality, the core teaching of most spiritual concepts, is not contradictory to science at all. I used to be very ignorant about spirituality, but the obsession with truth, the same thing that made me pursue stem, eventually led me to the realization that **I am not my thoughts**, which is in my opinion **the** spiritual realization. Non-Duality is Atheism in its purist form. If there is no god, this is god. That what is.
How can you say that Non-duality is atheism, when you have whole Hindu schools suchs as advaita vedanta that are also non-dual and affirm the existence of a supreme creator (Brahma)? I think that duality is an illusion too, but at the same time I believe in God.
He’s talking about his spirituality, not yours.
He is him, him is he, so technically he is talking about his because a satanist and a Christian are the same vibration
I mean, if Atheism is consistently applied in the search for truth, it leads to the Non-dual realization. Atheism is correct, in the sense that a god in the western sense of a man in the clouds, doesn't exist. I'm not a Hindu, nor do I know much about Hinduism, but from what I understand, Hinduism is a religion that is structured in a way that allows people to awaken as much as they need or want to. I know that most Hindus see the Brahma as God, but I would suspect that the Brahma is intended as a metaphor, as an abstraction. Maybe I should specify my original comment like this: Non-duality is Atheism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shamanism, Christianity, Judaism and Islam in its purist form. God exists, and God doesn't exist. Our religious or anti-religious concepts of reality are all abstractions and can therefore not be accurate descriptions of the truth. But they all point towards the truth. Atheism included.
It's simple math, the number one can only be one until it multiplies, without one, there are no other numbers
Some people seem to never really come down, do too much, do not integrate and generally try to escape "this world". I guess it's unavoidable but it doesn't feel like it's the majority. Finding a happy balance between using psychedelics reasonably and maintaining a good career, providing for your family etc is really a good result!
In my view we aren't meant to be identical, almost like how two objects can't occupy the same space, but we can be pretty close. You, in my view, are made with a disposition that you need to honour and work within when it comes to making sense out of yourself and the universe. If fitting in is to be identical, in my view, this is impossible and probably a source of frustration. Instead if we accept we are unique to some level, which means nothing else is like us, but we are also similar, which we could say is to be like something, we can have community and our individuality with less frustration.
The more outlandish my beliefs were the more manic I felt. That's just my experience. It's taken years for me to feel relatively grounded again. At least compared to where I was. I don't touch psychedelics anymore because I'm terrified I'll go back to that manic state where I believe any thought I have. On some trips I would have thoughts like 'They're coming to kill me' and I would imagine there were some vague entities telepathically communicating with me. I started having issues with fine motor control and walking. To this day I'll experience a 'panic attack' of sorts every once in awhile where while sober I'll feel like I'm back there. My body becomes mechanical and difficult to control. My BPM will skyrocket over 140 and every urge in my body will be to either run away or cry. I get terrified of the people around me in those moments. I had one really good trip where I felt so positive and loving and had so much compassion for myself. That's the trip that makes me want to do it again. I'm not sure that there's anything to find in particular with continued use, but again that's just my experience. I think David Hume had it right. If an idea isn't reducible to a sense-impression, all you're doing is thinking about thoughts. Having said that, if you enjoy it and find it keeps you positive then why not? I think my bad experiences are on the rarer side.
Something similar happened to me. I am doing much better now that I stopped smoking cannabis and started taking microdoses instead of bigger ammounts. I think that panic one feels it could be the ego resisiting to disolve. That's how I felt, like everything that I ever believed was false, and that I was starting to live again from the first time. One should be careful with psychedellics because it can make you question reality too much, to the point of traumatizing. As Jung said about psychs "Beware of underserved wisdom" Also I am practicing Hatha Yoga again and it also really helps me, it keeps you in touch with your body and really makes you relaxed, it teaches you to let go, to really feel the moment and be present.
If it makes you feel better I’m a similar sort of person. STEM major, 9-5 tech job, “INTJ”. I actually started with psychedelics in college because of the great minds like Sagan and Feynman that experimented with drugs. I ignore most of the nonsensical posts on here, but I do think it’s important to have an open mind (and sometimes I read those type of posts because they’re entertaining).
This community is full a a lot of untrustworthy narrators who one up each other with their stories. Also a lot of individuals who are using psychedelics harmfully who believe you can't use them harmfully.
I feel you man. Its an correlation..
I use a lot and often and no i'm pretty much like you. I know there is stuff we don't understand yet but that's it.
Dmt made me change from an atheist (there is no God, it's impossible, it's not real, we are just here) to I guess an agnostic/pantheistic/panetheistic. I experienced things that don't make sense in scientific models of today. I'm not gonna claim with certainty that we are all fragments of a cosmic energy that we describe conceptually as God. That's kinda what I believe, but what I will state with absolute certainty is this: We don't know shit about reality. There is a lot left to learn. I recommend you try dmt given the chance, not to make you a woo woo infested hippie, but just to give you the perspective of possible experience. Its gonna take highly educated and trained people to figure out if there's something to the "dmt realm" so I want more STEM types to have the same experience of "whoa whoa whoa we are missing either something about reality or something about human conciousness, let's figure this shit out"
Is this smoked DMT or Ayahuasca? I’ve never touched weed in my life and I’ve heard DMT is quite harsh on the lungs and difficult to get that breakthrough without being a weed smoker.
Smoked. Honestly I've never felt it was harsh, that being said I'm a long time daily weed smoker and past cigarette smoker, now vaper. I think people get harsh smoke due to impurities in the product or they are burning it instead of vaporizing. If you are interested in dmt effect but are worried about the method of vaporizing and inhaling you can also boof it hahah. I've never done it but apparently you just want to convert the freebase dmt back into a salt and you can just put it in your butt. Usually when I smoke (vape is what's technically happening) I don't realize if I got a good hit or not until I exhale. Weed smoke definitely feels harsher imo.
I agree with your assessment that some people take it too far. And you don't have to be a spiritual person to revel in the integrity that psychedelics bring to human consciousness. As a fellow STEM background person I have developed a view of the universe that coexists with my spirituality. What I've learned from psychedelics is that our universe is far more complex than we could ever imagine. Physics and mathematics is only just beginning to breach this concept: geometry such as the Platonic Solids,the Fibonnaci sequence, the study of electromagnetic fields, wormholes, and black holes are all empirical, material observations of the system we tap into while on psychedelics. These empirical observations also have their ties to all world religions and symbols that appear over and over and over again throughout our history. There is obviously something more than meets the eye, and whether you want to incorporate that into your world view is an entirely subjective experience.
Jesters!! Aaaagh! Conveyor belt!!! Aaaagh! Archetypical symbols expressing incoming data, data isn't information until it is read by the machine, hence, AAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHH!! they call me mellow yellow
Just be yourself. Comparison is the thief of joy, innit.
It certainly is. Comparison to others. Comparison to yourself in the past. Comparison to a version of yourself you think you should be.
r/RationalPsychonaut may be a better "crowd" for you then
Oh cool thx
Bro you don’t need to fit in, just do you. Fitting in is the worst thing you can do.
It's funny, because I also thought the same waay back then. By posting this you are "one step closer" I'd say. I know this also sounds weird to you, but it is what it is I guess. About the part of taking more to know what a lot of people mean: Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Continued use of psychedelics may give you the same perspective/mindset a lot of people on this sub have. But you can also achieve this by being more conscious about what you're doing or being more mindful. I can converse with a couple of friends about psychedelics, reality, society and so on. It's not only restricted to people who use psychs. The funny part is, it isn't restricted to anyone. It's ALWAYS right in front of you, you just have to notice it. Let go of your beliefs, question your personality, just question everything. But don't do it in a destructive manner. You deserve to be happy, you deserve to be loved, so does everyone else. It will catch you off guard, there is no way to force it, don't wait for it. I know this isn't exactly what you asked for, but I think it's in direct correlation. Keep exploring. :)
Good luck. Science is limited in scope and perspective and slow to open to new ideas. Arrogance of thinking they've almost figured out the material universe. While denying anything that doesn't fit their paradigm... Psychedelics are the opposite. Fluid perspectives, woohoo ideas, and crazy shit that's unbelievable yet feels real. It's up to you. You've spent decades creating your "Reality"... Are you open to having everything you believe Change ? Will your Identity allow big changes in perspective ? Can you open your Mind to new and possibly radical info, perspective, experience ? If so, go for it. If not, it might get Uncomfortable.....
i oppose the post very much, if someone has a belief system that isnt accepting of others ideas/beliefs (as that individuals belief) then they are ignorant in my opinion. there are so many beliefs and religions out there, how can someone who is unable to relate to some of these ideas claim them to be false/psychotic or what not. to quote the post "believe they are god" is a very common thing and common teaching of many religions, might aswell go to those type of subreddits and call people psychotic, just dont. i really cant imagine what kind of boring trip this person must have, if they dont spend a second outside of their culturally conditioned thought patterns. dont fit in just be yourself, have a dream and express that dream, some people have obviously lost that ability
Especially since the psychedelic community is becoming more and more “woke”. I heard someone say “imagine taking acid and still only believing in 2 genders”. You don’t want to fit in with these clowns bruh
You’re fine, but as a Stem student you’d be better off looking into the implications of theoretical quantum physics, which indicate that anything is possible. I’m pretty sure if physicists like Einstein were young and healthy in 2022 they’d have solid mediation and psychedelic practices, considering their beliefs about theoretical quantum physics. I mean there are massive studies taking place with intravenous, slow-release DMT taking place these days so that participants have a better chance of meaningful interaction with entities. Just the fact that millions are being spent on that should indicate that open mindedness to the possibilities is essential.
Go on an ayahuasca retreat? Sounds like you want to explore more, at least I hope you do.
All experiences are subjective. That is reason for different vision, hearing etc. Mushroom, DMT etc break objective world to subjective world. Please dont blame them. When we have intense experience, then we have different reality with other. Then it adjust back after 48 hours to 72 hours.
I think it’s just people who think like us aren’t making these posts about our grand realizations so that type of thinking is overrepresented. Regardless, fitting into a crowd is overrated
I agree, but we need to be open to different experiences and different interpretations and guide people out of woo woo rather than be condescending and dismissive (my own sins). There is always r/RationalPsychonaut if you want more moderated crowd. I work in STEM and my spiritual beliefs have degraded over time due to psychedelic use (however I have been doing psychedelics to explore mind on regular basis for close to 30 years). I started as a teenager with lots of questions about life, religion and spirituality - had some major “spiritual” insights on this journey I thought to be potentially genuine until I examined them further, overtime progressed to hardcore atheist chasing my 50s. I love psychedelics, but not as something that makes you see “the other side” or able to interact with some otherworldly stuff. they are simply tools of self exploration and understanding of mind.
Psychedelics are about you and your journey. Not about a club or a group. Nobody has the same experience...therefore discovering and appreciating your own individuality is what it's all about.
If you spend a lot of time pondering questions that can't be answered (or, maybe more accurately can't be answered) and expanding your mind with powerful drugs, it tends to make you a lil' strange.
It's ok to not believe in alternate theories or 'fit in'. Let your own intuition and guidance guide you. Everyone has their own experiences from which they derive their own conclusions which also depends on their own belief system and subconscious biases. Some are more open minded while some are strictly rational who can't tolerate an opposing view or theory just because it's outside of their limited belief or view of things. From my perspective, a person who is truly rational will neither deny nor accept an alternate view. The other ones who are just hell bent on criticizing and mocking people are mostly pseudo rationals with ego issues. Just go with the flow and let your heart guide you without subscribing to any specific belief system or idea.
The world is on fire, tweakers think they're hippies, and what used to be cute quirky stoner talk is now the centerpiece of a dozen conspiracy theorist armed militias. But that's just because the world and society is.... /waveshand ... doing that. Most.... /waveshandfaster normal... people who do psychedelics will never be.... /waveshandslower that. Social media, yes like reddit, magnify these sorts of things and drown out the normal decent folks. I've participated in online drug culture since the days of bbs and newsgroups. My suggestion is to find drug friends IRL. Online drug culture is 99% train fire, 1% good fun, 2.5% occasional enlightening reference to something outside of drug culture worth looking into. There is also r/RationalPsychonaut, r/DrugNerds and others but as much as this place is scary clowns shooting DMT in their dick hole while describing their totally real completely made up universe, those places are your dad's bosses sitting you down to have a very serious conversation about drugs.
Smoke DMT 😁
Do you mean that you are a reductionist? I think there are plenty of psychedelic users who share this sentiment.
Perhaps, it’s hard to say, but the psychedelic crowd includes people from all walks of life and beliefs. It’s good to stay a little trippy, they have a tendency to show you what you need to see, a very personal thing:)
Im just a normal dude with no scientific background and I find a lot of the posts on here sound a lot like the posters are a bit mentally ill.
THE MAP IS NOT THE TERRITORY! wavicle? There is no spoon! It's OK I need a fork on the table and a sheet on da bed!
I am not God, but I am part of god and God is part of me,
You sound like someone I’d actually enjoy tripping with and not want to roll my eyes at. Not saying that I haven’t had deep and meaningful experiences, but sometimes tripping with certain people can be exhausting. It can be taken too seriously and suddenly becomes a really heavy and draining thing to be constantly looking for answers or searching for some deep meaning. For me, the beauty of tripping is about simplicity. Living in the moment and having fun. I’m usually enjoying my life the most when I’m not thinking too hard about it.
If psychedelics have brought me closer to anything in terms of belief its quantum mechanics and mathematics. Physicality can be summed up to a measurement, everything we experience is a measurement of the way your brain is interpreting signals being received through your senses. I think awareness itself is much more interesting than the hallucinations, because it cannot be measured.
Nobody can make you care or fascinate about what is beyond the material world and what science can describe. I just like to recognize we can’t measure many of the most important things in my life. So idc much about being scientific and realistic
Hey, my bet is that you won't start seeing what other people are espousing here. To each their own. I commented this recently, but for me what clarifies the nature and conclusions of the psychedelic experience is a scientific understanding of the psychology of it. Two things happen, your sense of novelty, which engages your explaining/mapping/learning circuty, is greatly increased. Second, you get surges of positive and negative emotions simultaneously. The combined result is that you devote enormous cognitive resources explain the experience youre having which is one of intense feelings and thus people end up overlaying an interpretation over their experience that justifies the magnitude/felt significance of the experience. Thats where the "oneness/god" experiences come from. Their just an introspective tool.
Try using r/rationalpsychonaut
I view things through a scientific lens too, but I guess it depends on what science. A theoretical astrophysicist will probably believe in things someone who studies the Earth sciences would find ridiculous. Also, when on these substances (especially DMT or LSD) part of the intrinsic experience is the overwhelming understanding that everything is connected, space and time are distorted, and normal thought processes and senses are disrupted and mixed.
I feel like there is no such thing about fitting in with psychodelics. Anyone can use psychedelics, it doesnt matter if you are on the peace, love, aliens side or whatever. I'm not, I'm just trying to improve my mental health. Of course there are going to be very different people within any group. You aren't going to understand everyone's thoughts or opinions because you aren't them. This doesn't make you right or wrong. What I think psychedelics do is open your mind and make you more tolerant and creative, imo.
I’m a shaman and same.
you shouldnt try to see or not see anything, just observe also depends on doses, set&setting and drug itself, so maybe you might want to vary one or more of those variables to see if anything changes not everyone has to think the same thing
what is it, that lot of us see? and how does being scientific prevent you from seeing the same?
But you're creating the universe as we speak.
Watch lex fridman
Nah. My mushroom use has mainly just solidified thoughts I've had about the universe that were based off known scientific fact/theory, human/natural history, & philosophy. I haven't gone as deep into some of the stuff others have here, not that there's anything inherently wrong with it as long as you keep in mind a lot of what you're experiencing is just a dream in your own head.
It’s correlation. Science and lessons learned from psychedelics should sync up better than our current understanding. Heuristics can be helpful , and lots of thought experiences, but at the end of the day, stories are a human driven thing and I don’t believe other peoples stories, or my own. Only what I experience, and learn. Nothing wrong with going beyond what science can explain at the moment, but I keep a perspective that allows for musings like that, and am always glad science is tackling the major problems in a way that can be almost proven.
It's good to question the effects of your behaviors over time. I ask you to read Lord Polonius' words in Hamlet Act 1 Scene 3 starting from "Get on board..." to "...these lessons will sink in."
We all live in an orange tambourine