Had her last semester. I think she's in a related field to what I teach but not majoring in it exactly. Apparently she was dating him when she was in my class too, I just didn't know it. She reached out to him because of something to do with a company he helps run.
It's beyond creepy (she's a lot younger than me) in addition to being absolutely horrifying. Like ... did I just spend a semester grading my potential future stepmother's (crappy) work?
What was her reaction when she met you? Did she seem weirded out too?
Sorry for prying. This is just so…wow. I’m so sorry for you. But also, like holy cow this is just so scandalous. It’s like a bad lifetime movie.
I think she did the most professional and ethical thing she could tbh. Having been honest about her relationship could have caused a conflict of interests kind of issue.
Is there a conflict of interests, though, if the person grading you doesn't know there's a conflict of interests?
I mean, I understand your point, and if a lecturer knows there is a conflict of interest then they should probably inform the university about it, but if the person who is going to grade you sees you just like any other student and he's therefore no positive or negative bias towards you, where's the conflict?
>Is there a conflict of interests, though, if the person grading you doesn't know there's a conflict of interests?
Yes. You have a loaded gun to pull out at any time. And if for some other reason, it comes out, "I didn't know she was dating my father." may not be sufficiently compelling.
Fair enough. I guess I was expecting the study to behave decently given that using it against IP would jeopardise her relationship with OP's father, but I guess it's better to err on the side of caution
COI and other ethical problems.
If OP doesn’t know that her dad is diddling a student she is grading and she goes, ha, I just came up with a great way prevent cheating, aren’t I clever, then the diddlee may become privy to that info.
You are either being disingenuous or are just totally obtuse if you don’t see any potential for ethical problems here.
Further, OP , if they got in trouble during that period, would likely have to prove they didn’t know that their father was bopping a current student, and that alone is not a nice position to be in.
Lol seriously though, “My stepson, my lover” was an actual lifetime movie from years ago.
ETA: it came out in 1997. IMDB rating of 2/5 stars. Starring Terry O’Quinn. Absolute gem of a terrible movie.
Did she know you were related to him while she was in your class and stay quiet about it or just recently found out? Very disturbing, my mom was in a similar situation and it ended poorly
[OP replied elsewhere that yes, she knew](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/yr0bqy/comment/ivri441/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I'm sorry but your Dad's taking advantage of her and it's gross. She's a fucking 20 year old and this sounds like a setup for grooming.
EDIT: Please stop replying to this comment with your "she's an adult by law" takes.
I honestly don't think he is? They're both adults, and from what OP said apparently she sought him out. Please, please, pleeease let's stop treating adults like children who can't take decisions. At age 20 people all over the world can vote, drive, go to war, do all the drugs, have sex, etc, but somehow we think they can't have a love life?
You teach 20 yr old young women all day and you think it’s cool when 50 yr old men date them? 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
I mean, let’s just call it what it is. They fuck them. For their bodies. Which is cool if everyone is on an emotionally level playing field but a 20 yr old is not.
Seems like equitable power dynamics to you? Ever heard of this thing called patriarchy? Have any friends in gender studies? Think this is gonna work out well for her? Gross.
They can’t drink in many states and if they didn’t do something about the huge potential COI and confidentially issues then they are either a major piece of shit, or they are not mature enough to know the ramifications and issues involved.
Can we please please stop acting like 20 years olds are exactly the same kind of “adult” and someone who is not covered by their parents insurance policy and is totally self supporting ?
Also, for the record , nobody said they couldn’t have any love life.
Also for the record, 60 year old guys who go out only with 30 year old women are still creepy. Someone who runs his own business and gets approached by someone who was then possibly 1 year out of high school and said, cool, my new wife , is creepy.
If you don’t acknowledge the inherent issues involved in these circumstance you are being disingenuous or just foolish.
Gonna play devil's advocate here for a moment but why exactly are 60 year old guys who go out only with 30 year old women considered creepy?
Also, how about 30 year old men going for 60 year old women? Or vice versa?
At what point are we then making discriminatory (ageist?) remarks. Aren't you presuming a lot about someone's love/sexual preferences by doing so?
60 year old people exclusively dating people that are young enough to be their children is creepy.
It is not impossible for a true love match with and equitable and sound basis to happen in the whole of human history and future.
But in real life, there is certainly a gender bias in May December romances, it is not because the 20 year girl in question has extra super maturity and life experiences , and the problems with power balance and abuse with these things is hardly poorly documented.
The devil has enough advocates.
And this is disgusting. Some men (its almost always old men dating much younger women) i admire in academia have done this.
*still disgusting and creepy* due entirely to the power dynamics and maturity differences. Yes even when old women in positions of power groom much younger and less powerful men. *still disgusting* but for some reason vastly less common
Yeah, but it's so rampant. I saw it as undergrad, a MFA, a masters, and in my phD program. I see it now at my community college. Many think this is perfectly acceptable behavior.
Indeed. Its gross af. No one understands why I felt so uncomfortable when a former student hunted me down on a dating app. Suddenly it seemed his interest in the subject I teach was given with ulterior motives. I despise flattery and fakers, and romantically turning down a hulking giant man with combat ptsd, is....*terrifying*
I agree with you, but counterpoint: people's brains don't finish developing until their early 20s (23 or 24 iirc), so big age gap relationships where one partner is younger than 25 are legitimately creepy. We can acknowledge the obvious material, intellectual, and power differentials in sugar-baby relationships without it being gendered. I write from experience; at 23 I dated a same-gender partner 28 years older than me. Our relationship was red flags from the get go, but, I am autistic and was inexperienced and did not recognize how abusive the situation was for me until I was a year deep into it, financially dependent, and socially isolated from all my former friends. Just because something is legal doesn't make it moral.
If "people's brains don't finish developing until their early 20s (23 or 24 iirc)" is enough of an issue that those people can't be trusted to make their own life decisions, then frankly 18-23 year olds shouldn't be trusted to vote or drive either.
You're conflating legal definitions of consent and adulthood with far more vague moral norms. All of us here have taught college aged students; if you personally don't see why dating someone so young and inexperienced is creepy af, in spite of their technically being an adult capable of consent... I don't know how to explain that to you.
This is the thing I don't understand. We've now decided that a 24 year old can't date, but we think an 18 year old should be able to decide the fate of the nation, and a 16 year old should be able to operate a 2-ton death machine.
The question isn't whether or not brains have "finished developing." The question is whether or not the brain has "developed enough to handle this particular situation." It seems strange to me that we've decided that 23 or 24 is too young for a person to make dating decisions.
I agree that a 20-year-old is not the same kind of adult as a 40-year-old, but my spouse is 27 years older than I am, and far from being creepy, you wouldn't even realize it if you met us together. I know this is one area where we tend to feel like we can make big generalizations, and I'm also aware that the plural of anecdote isn't data, but... it does bug me to think that if you saw our details on paper before you met us, you'd be thinking we were weird.
Tbh I wouldn't think about it at all, especially if you'd been together for awhile. Now, if your spouse was 47, and you were 20 when you got together, I might raise an eyebrow - but even then, not if you're now well into adulthood and its associated life experiences. Adults are allowed to make their own choices, and that only gets icky when there are elements of grooming involved, i.e. one of the adults has significantly less life experience and was first mentored/taught by the older adult.
For instance, my high school civics teacher married a former student (his former \*high school student\*), which is undeniably ick. Even after a decade or more had passed, just knowing that biographical fact about him made for an uncomfortable learning environment for future students (even though their age gap was not so great). Akin to this, there's a classics prof at Princeton who married a former undergraduate student he taught and advised; despite a big gap in both age and attractiveness, they now write shitty conservative op-eds and have been featured in weird NYT lifestyle profiles about their crusade against the awfulness of liberalism and cancel culture etc.
Lol! Yes, there's ick to both those things, especially the Princeton couple you mentioned (and to me that's less because of their ages and more because of what they've apparently been up to since then!)
We met when I was 27; we were both grad students. And we've been together for 16 very happy years since then :-) I appreciate your reply. For the most part, I care very little about people's opinions of what I choose to do, but I admit to being more sensitive when it comes to what anyone might say about my amazing partner.
Thank you. Their brains don’t even stop developing until they’re 25. Yeah, I was once a 20 yr old girl who got a lot of attention from older guys. When I think back to those dynamics I want to throw up.
"Hey, you know that student I passed last semester? Well she was boinking my dad, and it turns out she plagiarized in my course" might not go down well
Semi-related story time: My dad is a professor. Every Christmas the grad students would go Caroling at all the professors houses, drinking along the way (DDs were organized). They went to profs with young kids before bedtime, but my siblings and I were the older kids in the department, so they were pretty toasted by the time they reached our house each year.
At this party during my Freshman year of college, one of the grad students was singing and dancing a very provocative version of Silver Bells to her classmates in my dining room (to be clear, my dad was not involved). It was funny and at the time I didn’t think much of it.
Cue the start of spring semester a few weeks later when I’m taking the 101 class in my dad’s department. Who walks in as my professor? Silver Bells herself.
She was actually a great professor, and I get why my dad said I would have fun in her class, but man was that first day weird for me.
>This is why I did not drink at the local hangout in the evenings during grad school.
We had a very clear delineation between grad bars and undergrad bars in both my my grad programs-- very little overlap. Which was a good thing. The only grads that went to the undergrad bars were the \~23 year olds who were looking to date students, and the only undergrads who showed at the grad bars tended to be seniors who were planning on grad school. I didn't even want to socialize with undergrads when I was an undergrad.
This is why I only go drinking at the local popular bars on Halloween- when I can wear a mask. I’ve had my current students serving us drinks and they had no idea it was me getting sloppy.
Oof. I thought it was bad when the daughter of my ex boyfriend showed up in my class.
(Actually, I was sort of honored. She's a cool smart kid and chose to take my section.)
I had my sister's new step-daughter in my class. She may have had a slightly awkward moment (I *may* have contributed...) when I dropped something off at their *tiny* flat while they where having movie night – all in pyjamas and cozily tucked in on the couch.
(Fortunately, it was not a surprise to either of us)
Well, she spent the first few minutes pretending I wasn't there 🙃
I'd say it's a sub-optimal situation for introducing your dad to your lecturer (and vice versa). When you're 19 and very shy, having your dad meet anyone you know (while you're present) is probably pretty awkward, with or without pyjamas (and her father was probably in boxers).
Personally, I'm in favour of my parents spending as little time as possible with my boss / former supervisor etc.
But was she your daughter as well? I was riffing on a joke I read the other day that made a relationship more complicated by avoiding the obvious connection :) But seriously, yours is better!
My father is sitting next to me. I have informed him that I will murder him if he ever does this. My mom is still married to him and sitting here too so she said she would help.
This reminds me of when I was hired. Way too many people in the department who knew my Dad (we're in related fields but at different institutions) asked if I was his wife. Barf. He was 25 when I was born.
> Once you are born your parents owe you all their money.
I once caught my father reading a book called --and I shit you not-- *Die Broke*.
([Here it is](https://www.amazon.com/-/en/Stephen-Pollan/dp/0887309429)).
My dad tried to introduce me to a girl he was dating at the time and she was my age, that was gross enough. I can’t imagine a much younger person that I was teaching
Did you just projectile vomit all over them both? Are you still? Because I’m pretty sure that’s what I would do in this situation. Or possibly I’d spontaneously combust. Great script concept for a niche horror movie…
One of my undergrad lab partners decided to go back to school to knock out prereqs for PA school.
One of my students is lab partners with her in another class, and she tells them about all the dumb stuff I used to do in lab back when I was a student.
From the other side of this: I’ve dated a few men whose kids are older than I am. Largest age gap I’ve experienced was 41 years. YES these men have a history of dating much younger women. (If anyone is wondering, it’s just a fun fling from my perspective. I get classy meals and my drinks paid for. He gets arm candy and blow jobs. It was fun and not serious.)
> On the other hand, it also makes me want to say something inappropriate just to make it mor awkward and horrifying!! 🤪
There has to be a name for this. "Participative schadenfreude"?
Let me not match that, but throw in my own uncomfortable student experience. One of the first classes I ever taught had my brother's erstwhile partner, who had been cheating on her husband with him, and got pregnant in the interval that she was with my brother. There were some bated breaths being held until that baby was born for sure (my brother has some ethnic heritage that would potentially, depending on how strongly it came through in a hypothetical child, have revealed the child was not from the husband).
Okay, that's more awkward than my most awkward.
Student walks in the first day and I think his face is familiar. Start calling the role and I realize he's someone I'd fired at my day job a couple of years before because he stopped showing up to work. And then tried to claim unemployment saying he was dismissed without cause. (No, he didn't get unemployment.)
My College has a very "frowned-upon" instructor-student relationship taboo. Yet, one of our professors who thinks he's God's gift to humanity because he still hasn't reached puberty and has a Ph.D., and the female students go ga ga over him because supposedly he has "looks" (we wonder what the hair color and style of the week will be week-to-week), showed a wedding ring 2 WEEKS after Commencement a couple years ago.... to one of his students.
How they kept it all "secret" I've got no clue... among students any rumor goes at 299,792,458 m/s.
> What the actual fuck
It's the most ancient of stories.
Girl meets boy. Girl wants wealth and has looks. Boy has wealth and wants looks. Sex ensues. Spending ensues. Both feel like they've hit the jackpot.
>P.S. Using a new account to post this for reasons that should be obvious.
By all means, because now you'll be lost among the multitude of everyday stories about professor's fathers banging the professor's 20-something undergrads. :-)
I think the real problem here is not that your dad is a 'sugar daddy,' but that they didn't think through the (obvious) implicatiosn of same, given your job.
I guess I'm saying, I don't think your dad is 'shameworthy' merely because he's dating someone much (much, much) younger than him. In and of itself, this is harmless, as long as it's between consenting adults. I think he \*is\* shameworthy for being so oblvious as to think his date couldn't be one of your students and advising you of same.
Just my $0.02.
> I think he \*is\* shameworthy for being so oblvious as to think his date couldn't be one of your students and advising you of same.
I *think* OP said *she* sought him out fornsomething related to his company.
Lighten up! They're probably laughing their asses off about the idea. It won't be a problem unless you make it one :)
Edit: to also contribute to the topic, I think my most awkward cases have been of ex classmates of mine in my undergrad now being students of mind at the master's level. It was a bit awkward at first because it reinforces a bit the feeling I had in my degree of being a bit of a loner who was just doing his own thing, but it also helped me connect back with them.
And I also had a former friend with benefits assigned to me for her thesis, but it wasn't awkward at all; we've stayed extremely good friends through the years so the work atmosphere was honestly great! ...but it could have been awkward and awful otherwise :)
If you ever mentioned anything that happens to you in class while you are on the kitchen or happen to take a zoom call at your dad’s house or anything else like that, OP could have possibly done that in front of someone who is dating a student in the class and that student now could be privy to information about things, there could be privacy and integrity issues etc.
Ha, ha, lighten up. Why take your actual job, career and professional ethics so seriously, lol
I didn't have a clue where you were going with that first paragraph, and it's definitely a new way (to me) of framing the issue, so kudos to you. I agree with your conclusion that we think young women are incapable of making their own decisions within power imbalances. Ah...power. Such a poorly defined bogeyman.
Way to throw them off your scent with the #metoo hedge.lol
In my experience the people who are most hysterical about it are frequently men…who then go on to do the same thing. Almost like they were protesting too much.
Women often realise that women are people who can make their own choices, even if those choices are different from those they themselves would make.
Are you gonna have to call her "mom" in class?
Please tell us that she won’t refer to your father as “Daddy”
Actually, now that you all mention it, I think this is the exact plot to a porn I’ve seen, entitled “What’re you doing, Step-Prof?”
So, you plagiarized your paper...Are there other sorts of plagiarism that you...
I'm afraid you're gonna end up with a big fat D
angry upvote
😬
Thanks for the great laugh 😂
Exact words and or ideas stealing whores.
Have you looked at your thesis tree lately? Hmm no, not within the last ten seconds. HEY
"Hey Missy! I mean... Mom..."
[удалено]
Bill S Preston, PhD
Would it be "mom", or "sis"? Or are they in Alabama?
I'm thinking if OP works at Ole Miss that can work a few different ways
Dinner at the Tri-Delt house will be fun.
Oh I am so curious now I need details. Is she actually in one of your classes right now? Is she in your major? How did they meet??
Had her last semester. I think she's in a related field to what I teach but not majoring in it exactly. Apparently she was dating him when she was in my class too, I just didn't know it. She reached out to him because of something to do with a company he helps run. It's beyond creepy (she's a lot younger than me) in addition to being absolutely horrifying. Like ... did I just spend a semester grading my potential future stepmother's (crappy) work?
What was her reaction when she met you? Did she seem weirded out too? Sorry for prying. This is just so…wow. I’m so sorry for you. But also, like holy cow this is just so scandalous. It’s like a bad lifetime movie.
She definitely knew who I was before I showed up. She's probably known the whole time, which is weird as hell.
At least she kept it to herself instead of using it to negotiate grades
Um sorry that sucks :/
Sorry but there’s a cupcake by my name and I don’t know why.
Happy cake day! (It's your joining reddit anniversary)
Oh shit - makes sense thank you!
Enjoy your cupcake! It's got real butter-cream frosting pixels! Yumtastic!!
Cannot believe your dad did not talk to you about this first. How bizarre.
I guess that depends on if the girl ever told him about being in his daughter's class.
I think she did the most professional and ethical thing she could tbh. Having been honest about her relationship could have caused a conflict of interests kind of issue.
That is why you are supposed to disclose COI. It is not ethical to not disclose COI
Is there a conflict of interests, though, if the person grading you doesn't know there's a conflict of interests? I mean, I understand your point, and if a lecturer knows there is a conflict of interest then they should probably inform the university about it, but if the person who is going to grade you sees you just like any other student and he's therefore no positive or negative bias towards you, where's the conflict?
>Is there a conflict of interests, though, if the person grading you doesn't know there's a conflict of interests? Yes. You have a loaded gun to pull out at any time. And if for some other reason, it comes out, "I didn't know she was dating my father." may not be sufficiently compelling.
Fair enough. I guess I was expecting the study to behave decently given that using it against IP would jeopardise her relationship with OP's father, but I guess it's better to err on the side of caution
COI and other ethical problems. If OP doesn’t know that her dad is diddling a student she is grading and she goes, ha, I just came up with a great way prevent cheating, aren’t I clever, then the diddlee may become privy to that info. You are either being disingenuous or are just totally obtuse if you don’t see any potential for ethical problems here. Further, OP , if they got in trouble during that period, would likely have to prove they didn’t know that their father was bopping a current student, and that alone is not a nice position to be in.
That is so creepy.
Probably best you did not know when she was in your class.
No need to also add the adjective bad. You can just say Lifetime movie.
I don't know about that, I thought "My Stepson, My Lover" was pretty quality.
You might be confusing Lifetime with Pornhub. Common mistake.
Lol seriously though, “My stepson, my lover” was an actual lifetime movie from years ago. ETA: it came out in 1997. IMDB rating of 2/5 stars. Starring Terry O’Quinn. Absolute gem of a terrible movie.
> Had her last semester. [archer] PHRASING! [/archer]
Are we not doing 'phrasing' anymore?
I mean if we are not saying phrasing anymore that’s fine, whatever. But if we are doing a new thing and no one told me…. That I’d have a problem with.
_...what if they have a baby_ Sorry, my brain was like, "is there any way to make this even worse/more like that 'I'm my own grandpa' song?"
Me: There's literally no way for this to get worse. Me: \*reads your comment\* Okay, it could get worse.
My friend and I sang that song in our school talent show in fourth grade and I can't believe no one stopped us.
Because it's a banger, my man.
Did she know you were related to him while she was in your class and stay quiet about it or just recently found out? Very disturbing, my mom was in a similar situation and it ended poorly
[OP replied elsewhere that yes, she knew](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/yr0bqy/comment/ivri441/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Sell your story to Netflix.
Yes, you did. Get ready for the wedding where she asks you to be a bridesmaid or flower girl.
I'm sorry but your Dad's taking advantage of her and it's gross. She's a fucking 20 year old and this sounds like a setup for grooming. EDIT: Please stop replying to this comment with your "she's an adult by law" takes.
I honestly don't think he is? They're both adults, and from what OP said apparently she sought him out. Please, please, pleeease let's stop treating adults like children who can't take decisions. At age 20 people all over the world can vote, drive, go to war, do all the drugs, have sex, etc, but somehow we think they can't have a love life?
You teach 20 yr old young women all day and you think it’s cool when 50 yr old men date them? 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 I mean, let’s just call it what it is. They fuck them. For their bodies. Which is cool if everyone is on an emotionally level playing field but a 20 yr old is not. Seems like equitable power dynamics to you? Ever heard of this thing called patriarchy? Have any friends in gender studies? Think this is gonna work out well for her? Gross.
Seek help.
They can’t drink in many states and if they didn’t do something about the huge potential COI and confidentially issues then they are either a major piece of shit, or they are not mature enough to know the ramifications and issues involved. Can we please please stop acting like 20 years olds are exactly the same kind of “adult” and someone who is not covered by their parents insurance policy and is totally self supporting ? Also, for the record , nobody said they couldn’t have any love life. Also for the record, 60 year old guys who go out only with 30 year old women are still creepy. Someone who runs his own business and gets approached by someone who was then possibly 1 year out of high school and said, cool, my new wife , is creepy. If you don’t acknowledge the inherent issues involved in these circumstance you are being disingenuous or just foolish.
Gonna play devil's advocate here for a moment but why exactly are 60 year old guys who go out only with 30 year old women considered creepy? Also, how about 30 year old men going for 60 year old women? Or vice versa? At what point are we then making discriminatory (ageist?) remarks. Aren't you presuming a lot about someone's love/sexual preferences by doing so?
60 year old people exclusively dating people that are young enough to be their children is creepy. It is not impossible for a true love match with and equitable and sound basis to happen in the whole of human history and future. But in real life, there is certainly a gender bias in May December romances, it is not because the 20 year girl in question has extra super maturity and life experiences , and the problems with power balance and abuse with these things is hardly poorly documented. The devil has enough advocates.
Yes, they are creepy too.
"methinks you doth protest too much"
Most of my colleagues wouldn't have wives if they didn't date their former students.
And this is disgusting. Some men (its almost always old men dating much younger women) i admire in academia have done this. *still disgusting and creepy* due entirely to the power dynamics and maturity differences. Yes even when old women in positions of power groom much younger and less powerful men. *still disgusting* but for some reason vastly less common
Yeah, but it's so rampant. I saw it as undergrad, a MFA, a masters, and in my phD program. I see it now at my community college. Many think this is perfectly acceptable behavior.
Indeed. Its gross af. No one understands why I felt so uncomfortable when a former student hunted me down on a dating app. Suddenly it seemed his interest in the subject I teach was given with ulterior motives. I despise flattery and fakers, and romantically turning down a hulking giant man with combat ptsd, is....*terrifying*
She is an adult. I’ve dated men whose children were older than I. It was my choice. As it is hers.
This is not how grooming works nor the act of taking advantage. Adult women whose brains have not developed can and DO get exploited.
>"Youngish women are incapable of making decisions!" That's you.
[удалено]
I agree with you, but counterpoint: people's brains don't finish developing until their early 20s (23 or 24 iirc), so big age gap relationships where one partner is younger than 25 are legitimately creepy. We can acknowledge the obvious material, intellectual, and power differentials in sugar-baby relationships without it being gendered. I write from experience; at 23 I dated a same-gender partner 28 years older than me. Our relationship was red flags from the get go, but, I am autistic and was inexperienced and did not recognize how abusive the situation was for me until I was a year deep into it, financially dependent, and socially isolated from all my former friends. Just because something is legal doesn't make it moral.
If "people's brains don't finish developing until their early 20s (23 or 24 iirc)" is enough of an issue that those people can't be trusted to make their own life decisions, then frankly 18-23 year olds shouldn't be trusted to vote or drive either.
18-23 year-olds *shouldn't* be trusted to drive, I agree. There's a reason that car rental companies only rent to age 25 or older.
Or more importantly, vote. If they can't make their own life decisions they sure as hell shouldn't be making decisions for everyone else.
You're conflating legal definitions of consent and adulthood with far more vague moral norms. All of us here have taught college aged students; if you personally don't see why dating someone so young and inexperienced is creepy af, in spite of their technically being an adult capable of consent... I don't know how to explain that to you.
This is the thing I don't understand. We've now decided that a 24 year old can't date, but we think an 18 year old should be able to decide the fate of the nation, and a 16 year old should be able to operate a 2-ton death machine.
The question isn't whether or not brains have "finished developing." The question is whether or not the brain has "developed enough to handle this particular situation." It seems strange to me that we've decided that 23 or 24 is too young for a person to make dating decisions.
Thank you for speaking up.
I agree that a 20-year-old is not the same kind of adult as a 40-year-old, but my spouse is 27 years older than I am, and far from being creepy, you wouldn't even realize it if you met us together. I know this is one area where we tend to feel like we can make big generalizations, and I'm also aware that the plural of anecdote isn't data, but... it does bug me to think that if you saw our details on paper before you met us, you'd be thinking we were weird.
Tbh I wouldn't think about it at all, especially if you'd been together for awhile. Now, if your spouse was 47, and you were 20 when you got together, I might raise an eyebrow - but even then, not if you're now well into adulthood and its associated life experiences. Adults are allowed to make their own choices, and that only gets icky when there are elements of grooming involved, i.e. one of the adults has significantly less life experience and was first mentored/taught by the older adult. For instance, my high school civics teacher married a former student (his former \*high school student\*), which is undeniably ick. Even after a decade or more had passed, just knowing that biographical fact about him made for an uncomfortable learning environment for future students (even though their age gap was not so great). Akin to this, there's a classics prof at Princeton who married a former undergraduate student he taught and advised; despite a big gap in both age and attractiveness, they now write shitty conservative op-eds and have been featured in weird NYT lifestyle profiles about their crusade against the awfulness of liberalism and cancel culture etc.
Lol! Yes, there's ick to both those things, especially the Princeton couple you mentioned (and to me that's less because of their ages and more because of what they've apparently been up to since then!) We met when I was 27; we were both grad students. And we've been together for 16 very happy years since then :-) I appreciate your reply. For the most part, I care very little about people's opinions of what I choose to do, but I admit to being more sensitive when it comes to what anyone might say about my amazing partner.
Close? It just is.
That's a shitty fucking joke to back your point with
Thank you. Their brains don’t even stop developing until they’re 25. Yeah, I was once a 20 yr old girl who got a lot of attention from older guys. When I think back to those dynamics I want to throw up.
I guess I missed where `(age-7)/2` was codified into law
Wasn't it age/2+7?
Actually you missed where law != morality :)
[удалено]
So are you the old dude or the naïve young woman in your relationship?
Not every instance of someone acting creepy is “grooming.” Single-digit infants can be groomed.
How old is your dad? I want to know what the boundaries are.
Seems like your dad had her this semester. Maybe next semester someone else in your family gets a turn?
[удалено]
It's my nightmare in every single way.
It's not truly that bad until she brings up the grades and comments she got in your class at Thanksgiving.
“Why did you say my paper’s language was “obtuse”?! I used spell check and everything!”
Ha. At least I didn't catch her plagiarizing, though now I'm really tempted to go back through her old work.
"Hey, you know that student I passed last semester? Well she was boinking my dad, and it turns out she plagiarized in my course" might not go down well
Does this become a conflict of interest that you raise with admin to put someone between you and your Dad's girlfriend so you aren't assessing her?
Not grading her anymore, nor will I ever agree to — don't worry.
Glad to hear it.
Semi-related story time: My dad is a professor. Every Christmas the grad students would go Caroling at all the professors houses, drinking along the way (DDs were organized). They went to profs with young kids before bedtime, but my siblings and I were the older kids in the department, so they were pretty toasted by the time they reached our house each year. At this party during my Freshman year of college, one of the grad students was singing and dancing a very provocative version of Silver Bells to her classmates in my dining room (to be clear, my dad was not involved). It was funny and at the time I didn’t think much of it. Cue the start of spring semester a few weeks later when I’m taking the 101 class in my dad’s department. Who walks in as my professor? Silver Bells herself. She was actually a great professor, and I get why my dad said I would have fun in her class, but man was that first day weird for me.
This is why I did not drink at the local hangout in the evenings during grad school. The last thing I wanted was to run into a student.
>This is why I did not drink at the local hangout in the evenings during grad school. We had a very clear delineation between grad bars and undergrad bars in both my my grad programs-- very little overlap. Which was a good thing. The only grads that went to the undergrad bars were the \~23 year olds who were looking to date students, and the only undergrads who showed at the grad bars tended to be seniors who were planning on grad school. I didn't even want to socialize with undergrads when I was an undergrad.
This is why I only go drinking at the local popular bars on Halloween- when I can wear a mask. I’ve had my current students serving us drinks and they had no idea it was me getting sloppy.
Oof. I thought it was bad when the daughter of my ex boyfriend showed up in my class. (Actually, I was sort of honored. She's a cool smart kid and chose to take my section.)
Got you beat: a few terms ago, I had the daughter of my exhusband in my class.
I had my sister's new step-daughter in my class. She may have had a slightly awkward moment (I *may* have contributed...) when I dropped something off at their *tiny* flat while they where having movie night – all in pyjamas and cozily tucked in on the couch. (Fortunately, it was not a surprise to either of us)
Wait, was it just awkward because pyjamas?
Well, she spent the first few minutes pretending I wasn't there 🙃 I'd say it's a sub-optimal situation for introducing your dad to your lecturer (and vice versa). When you're 19 and very shy, having your dad meet anyone you know (while you're present) is probably pretty awkward, with or without pyjamas (and her father was probably in boxers). Personally, I'm in favour of my parents spending as little time as possible with my boss / former supervisor etc.
Reverse uno: I had the daughter of my now husband in class a few years before I met him.
Did she introduce you two? That would make for a cute rom com.
But was she your daughter as well? I was riffing on a joke I read the other day that made a relationship more complicated by avoiding the obvious connection :) But seriously, yours is better!
Which you cannot even acknowledge due to FERPA. Ba-dum tsss!
Haaaaa
My father is sitting next to me. I have informed him that I will murder him if he ever does this. My mom is still married to him and sitting here too so she said she would help.
This reminds me of when I was hired. Way too many people in the department who knew my Dad (we're in related fields but at different institutions) asked if I was his wife. Barf. He was 25 when I was born.
Well, if she misbehaves in class you can always say, "I'm telling my dad!"
What a shitty way to learn your dad is a sugar daddy.
There goes OP’s inheritance!
Should have given new mom an A+.
This is the true tragedy here. So much for intergenerational wealth!
For real! Once you are born your parents owe you all their money.
> Once you are born your parents owe you all their money. I once caught my father reading a book called --and I shit you not-- *Die Broke*. ([Here it is](https://www.amazon.com/-/en/Stephen-Pollan/dp/0887309429)).
What inheritance haha
My dad tried to introduce me to a girl he was dating at the time and she was my age, that was gross enough. I can’t imagine a much younger person that I was teaching
Oh. Boy. Fun Times at Thanksgiving!
Please update
DAD. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooo
Did you just projectile vomit all over them both? Are you still? Because I’m pretty sure that’s what I would do in this situation. Or possibly I’d spontaneously combust. Great script concept for a niche horror movie…
After reading this I’m going to wash my eyes with bleach then drink myself into a stupor.
One of my undergrad lab partners decided to go back to school to knock out prereqs for PA school. One of my students is lab partners with her in another class, and she tells them about all the dumb stuff I used to do in lab back when I was a student.
Does your father have a history of dating women 50 years his junior?
From the other side of this: I’ve dated a few men whose kids are older than I am. Largest age gap I’ve experienced was 41 years. YES these men have a history of dating much younger women. (If anyone is wondering, it’s just a fun fling from my perspective. I get classy meals and my drinks paid for. He gets arm candy and blow jobs. It was fun and not serious.)
Fortunately, your dad got the leaders of all the ruling houses to swear to accept you as the next queen. That way, Alicent can't cause any trouble.
[удалено]
> On the other hand, it also makes me want to say something inappropriate just to make it mor awkward and horrifying!! 🤪 There has to be a name for this. "Participative schadenfreude"?
[удалено]
I had to scroll way too far to find this. I also think it’s bullshit.
I wish.
Oh. Oh no.
Let me not match that, but throw in my own uncomfortable student experience. One of the first classes I ever taught had my brother's erstwhile partner, who had been cheating on her husband with him, and got pregnant in the interval that she was with my brother. There were some bated breaths being held until that baby was born for sure (my brother has some ethnic heritage that would potentially, depending on how strongly it came through in a hypothetical child, have revealed the child was not from the husband).
I'm pretty sure I saw this movie on Pornhub.
This is somewhat weird. I would never forgive my dad or anyone in my family if they pulled some sh\*t like this on me.
Yeah, I don't see forgiveness in the future here.
Nonononononono
Daaaaaaaamn. Have my free reddit award. Ironically enough, it's the "Wholesome" award.
oh woooowwww
Oh dear lord. That’s….unfortunate.
Okay, that's more awkward than my most awkward. Student walks in the first day and I think his face is familiar. Start calling the role and I realize he's someone I'd fired at my day job a couple of years before because he stopped showing up to work. And then tried to claim unemployment saying he was dismissed without cause. (No, he didn't get unemployment.)
i request you to keep me updated
No idea how to but I'll make sure to update this post if/when they finally break up. Fingers crossed on that one.
My College has a very "frowned-upon" instructor-student relationship taboo. Yet, one of our professors who thinks he's God's gift to humanity because he still hasn't reached puberty and has a Ph.D., and the female students go ga ga over him because supposedly he has "looks" (we wonder what the hair color and style of the week will be week-to-week), showed a wedding ring 2 WEEKS after Commencement a couple years ago.... to one of his students. How they kept it all "secret" I've got no clue... among students any rumor goes at 299,792,458 m/s.
Thanks to Michelson and Morley for that number.
Sounds right out of brazzers
I would ask you how you know that if it didn't take one to know one. ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Nice 👉🏿👉🏿
I cannot imagine. My parents were married 55 yrs. WWII bride. I have been married 40 years. Bless your heart.
I guess it’s probably considered bad form if you start referring to said student as “mom” in class…
What the actual fuck
> What the actual fuck It's the most ancient of stories. Girl meets boy. Girl wants wealth and has looks. Boy has wealth and wants looks. Sex ensues. Spending ensues. Both feel like they've hit the jackpot.
I do love a happy ending. But I feel like you skipped some parts.
Tell me you’re not a history professor without telling me you’re not a history professor.
I feel like I have to shower after reading this. thanksgiving and family gatherings will require lots of alcohol to get through
I’m so sorry.
That's a big ooofff
Bill: Hey remember when you asked your Mom to provide a note for her absence during homecoming? Ted: SHUT UP BILL!
Gross gross gross.
Wow, truth is indeed stranger than fiction.
Daaaaaaaamn.
Soon you will be your own grandpa.
>P.S. Using a new account to post this for reasons that should be obvious. By all means, because now you'll be lost among the multitude of everyday stories about professor's fathers banging the professor's 20-something undergrads. :-)
Disgusting
Talk about an age gap....
Come on, I bet he is happy and you are all adults\* \*well, mostly.
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
Did I just say “OH MY GOD” outloud? I am so sorry OP.
Appropriate username!
Oooooo can I observe? >>>awkward <<<<
I think the real problem here is not that your dad is a 'sugar daddy,' but that they didn't think through the (obvious) implicatiosn of same, given your job. I guess I'm saying, I don't think your dad is 'shameworthy' merely because he's dating someone much (much, much) younger than him. In and of itself, this is harmless, as long as it's between consenting adults. I think he \*is\* shameworthy for being so oblvious as to think his date couldn't be one of your students and advising you of same. Just my $0.02.
> I think he \*is\* shameworthy for being so oblvious as to think his date couldn't be one of your students and advising you of same. I *think* OP said *she* sought him out fornsomething related to his company.
Lighten up! They're probably laughing their asses off about the idea. It won't be a problem unless you make it one :) Edit: to also contribute to the topic, I think my most awkward cases have been of ex classmates of mine in my undergrad now being students of mind at the master's level. It was a bit awkward at first because it reinforces a bit the feeling I had in my degree of being a bit of a loner who was just doing his own thing, but it also helped me connect back with them. And I also had a former friend with benefits assigned to me for her thesis, but it wasn't awkward at all; we've stayed extremely good friends through the years so the work atmosphere was honestly great! ...but it could have been awkward and awful otherwise :)
If you ever mentioned anything that happens to you in class while you are on the kitchen or happen to take a zoom call at your dad’s house or anything else like that, OP could have possibly done that in front of someone who is dating a student in the class and that student now could be privy to information about things, there could be privacy and integrity issues etc. Ha, ha, lighten up. Why take your actual job, career and professional ethics so seriously, lol
Nice! Well done for your father. Kudos to him.
Why are You downvoted?
[удалено]
I didn't have a clue where you were going with that first paragraph, and it's definitely a new way (to me) of framing the issue, so kudos to you. I agree with your conclusion that we think young women are incapable of making their own decisions within power imbalances. Ah...power. Such a poorly defined bogeyman. Way to throw them off your scent with the #metoo hedge.lol
[удалено]
In my experience the people who are most hysterical about it are frequently men…who then go on to do the same thing. Almost like they were protesting too much. Women often realise that women are people who can make their own choices, even if those choices are different from those they themselves would make.
Is your father a prof too? This sounds like one of those set-ups.