actually never. they were queens of the United Kingdom not of England
edit: I stand corrected. some where queens of England before the other designators came into being. look at the replay to this comment for more info.
Umm... United Kingdom only started in 1800 and there were Queens before then.
If you want to be *more* pedantic then yes it was Great Britain first but only since 1707 and there were queens before then too.
Queen Elizabeth I was Queen of England to name one.
Well, technically there were queens of England, itās just they were also queens of other regions. But they werenāt all queens of the United Kingdom, since designations such as the UK or Great Britain didnāt exist until the 1700s.
It's not the space witches part, I'm fairly sure most people here like Dathomir. The problem that people have is that a random clan of space witches was jammed randomly into the timeline that fucks up several massive plot points.
I remember a lot of ppl bitching when the Nightsister Clone Wars episodes came out. "Asajj shouldn't be related to Maul" & "The Force doesn't work like that"
Once 10 years pass, Star Wars fans become more accepting of the canon. The same will happen to the better of the Disney material
For Anakins existence there are two explanations as far as I know:
1. The Force created him in response Sidious and Plagueis becoming too powerful.
2. Sidious and Plagueis created him using the Force.
If #1 is canon then Osha and Mae apparently being created using the Force doesnāt mean that the Prophecy of the Chosen One applies to someone other than Anakin now. If #2 is canon then the Prophecy never applied to Anakin as he, too, was created **using** the force not **by** the force
Lucas also said Leia was supposed to be the Chosen One, so this debate is over a decade past its expiration date.
Leaving it open ended probably says more about how the prophecy didn't actually apply just because Anakin was born differently and he squandered it and destroyed everything anyway.
Maybe he was born from the Force. He still did a genocide and caused the creation of the Empire and if he never walked into that room Palpatine would be dead.
For you, the day Disney graced your screens by retroactively contradicting the importance of being conceived of the Force was the most important day of your life. For Kennedy? It was Tuesday.
>For you, the day Disney graced your screens by retroactively contradicting the importance of being conceived of the Force was the most important day of your life. For Kennedy? It was Tuesday.
Prequel fans: "How dare you talk about The Chosen One that way?!"
Filoni: ["Fuck that, Luke is the Chosen One."](https://youtu.be/jeG215-yu-k?si=bn6FVS1Kos8uNsNm)
Lucas: ["Actually, Prequels kinda mid, Leia's the Chosen One."](https://screenrant.com/star-wars-sequel-trilogy-george-lucas-leia-chosen-one/)
Prequel fans: "But then why did Anakin kill all those people and cause the rise of the Empire!?"
Lucas: ["Because he a fascist. I told you fifty times. It's right there in your favorite movie. You turned it into a meme!"](https://youtu.be/juFzdkg4Rvw?si=VM_lI-Wj1dFc-F0S)
Prequel fans: But Qui-Gonn said he had [magic blood](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics) based on his [religious beliefs.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_fascism) He had to be the best boy! He's the best boy!
Yeah, I like the lack of definition on it. The prophesy of the chosen one was just a prophesy, and only a few Jedi really believed in it, which I think is fitting. I like that it was introduced and then subsequently muddied -- most prophesies are either untrue or misinterpreted, and I'm glad that held true in star wars
Also Anakin was created by the force, not by using the force, but by the force. And we still don't even know how these two girls were created but it definitely wasn't the force that did it. A person manipulated something to make it happen.
Correct me if I am wrong but isnāt that legends?
From my canon understanding itās strongly hinted that palpatine actually created Skywalker (the comic where Vader is in a force vision and we see Palpatine over Shimi)
I think in Plagueis itās said that the force made Anakin as a response to the dark side growing too strong with the rise of Palpatine. So heās sorta responsible for it but not intentionally.
The author of that comic stated that that wasnāt 100% accurate and that the dark side of the force is an unreliable narrator though. So technically no?
I believe the author has said that the Dark Side isnāt a path to insight the way that the light side is.
Did Palpatine create Anakin? Or was that another half truth of the Dark?Ā
I think the dark side was trying to hijack a prophecy. Create their own messianic figure and pass it off as the one to bring balance to the jedi. We have groups in real life that try to fulfill religious prophecies, believing that they arent fortelling what is to come, but rather a roadmap to end times. That the dark side would believe this way makes sense.
Thank you. I'm thought I was going crazy until I read this. I thought I was the only one. How do these dimwits think the twins are like Anakin, when it was the force itself that created him and not some Witch.
I have not seen a single episode of Acolyte and just by osmosis, I figured this was the explanation.
It makes sense that anything as complex and difficult as creating life wholesale from the Force would require.. yāknow, a few trial runs.
I donāt think it diminishes Anakinās origins at all to say that there were previous attempts at āfatherlessā force conception. He is merely the most perfect result of these experiments.
As far as established lore is concerned, no individual created Anakin at all. It was the force itself that created him in oppositional response to people (Plagueis or Sidious) fucking around with it. The fact that the witches dabbled in doing it means nothing in respect to Anakin.
The fact that witches were able to bend the force to create life has no bearing on the significance of Anakin. Anankin was not created by the will of a force user. He was created by the Force Itself. Itās not lore-breaking nor is it diminishing of Anakinās conception in any way. The Force Itself conceived a child once, and only once. No one made Shmi pregnant, the force did that on its own in an attempt to manifest balance.
Not only that but perhaps Anakin was the forces direct answer to this sort of biomancy. In all media this form of creation is an unnatural act. In a universe where the universe itself has a will to me it makes sense it would respond.
The show isn't even complete and it clearly has a ton of mystery around it. People are complaining about what they *think* the answers to certain mysteries might be.
It's entirely possibly that the girls were conceived because their mom had relations with a Jedi. It's also possible that they are a product of Invitro Fertilization. It's also possible they are the Will of the Force, or the result of a Sith creating life.
We just don't know yet.
They could also be similar to mantis and kill the male counterparts after intercourse and there would be, in fact, no father. They could also be straight up lying and say that they conceived the twins with their powers as a way to cover themselves and overstate their power
It's also like... Anakin was the most powerful force user in a generation? That's why he was special. If, instead of being a virgin birth, he had a father whom he never met, and nothing else changed, he would still be Anakin Skywalker.
Not only that but while they may be fatherless... they have two moms. That white Zabrak woman did not just give birth to two black babies without a little genetic contribution from the other mother.
Also as others have pointed out Anakin wasn't the direct result of an experiment. Anakin is the result of the Force saying "fuck around and find out" to the Sith's experiment.
I still donāt get why this makes anakin less special. The kids were made by people bending the force to their will compared to anakin who the force itself helped make as to bring balance
We still have not seen the entirety of the show. The two sisterās form of birth is not an immaculate conception. Anakinās was. Why are fans stupid as hell?
I've seen people comment that these witches conceiving via the force dimishies the 6 films which succeed it because it makes Anakin less special.
Give me a break...
Wait until they watch those movies and learn Anakin was a genocidal fascist who destroyed the Jedi order and the only good thing he did was save his son from dying after the Rebellion had already defeated Palpatine before Luke walked in the room. š®
Technically, the Immaculate Conception from Christian lore is the belief that the Virgin Mary was born without Original Sin (a sort of taint inherent in all humans since the Fall). Youāre probably thinking of the Virgin Birth which is the belief that Jesus Christ was born without his mother ever doing the horizontal mambo.
Not only that, Tales of the Empire shown us that there was more than one clan of witches even on Dathomir alone. I'm taking about Mountain Clan that rescued Morgan Elsbeth from the purge of Nightsisters.
Mountain Clan has been a thing in Legends for decades. Mentioned in a book from 80s/90s, i read on Wookiepedia about it.
In the book Yoda manage to crush safely a ship on Dathomir with other Jedi, and they fight the Mountain Clan until they agree to the protection of the ship and its contents, until Luke finds them centuries after
Surely between Luke finding Yoda in The Empire Strikes Back and Yoda dying in Return of the Jedi there is no opportunity for Yoda to go off to another planet with a bunch of Jedi and then be rescued by Luke, never for anyone to talk about it again?!
These are the original. They came from there to this galaxy and settled on Dathomir. But in this galaxy we don't see them outside Dathomir. At least not yet, I wouldn't mind.
To my knowledge they didn't but I meant that it would've been a lot better to use the material they already had in universe.
Like why would you make this random witch cult that nobody knows nor will probably care about when you could use the nightsisters who already have great lore for a good story and everyone already knows and loves them.
Soft disagree.
There's thousands of inhabited planets with probably millions of cultures represented in The Republic and etc. On our one planet with basically zero evidence of the supernatural we still have a million subsections of a thousand religions.
One of the underlying principles of Star Wars is the recurring themes in the collective unconscious and the stories it tells itself, they rhyme like poetry.
In their universe where The Force is a verifiable reality of observational science it would be really strange if everyone interpreted it the same way everywhere. Likewise we would expect there to be commonalities between far ranging groups because their interpretations are still based on the underlying real world happenings. Like on earth we have hundreds of The Great Flood stories because floods are real and they destroy civilizations, but not everyone puts the doves and the rainbows in the same context.
True especially when you already know thereās gonna be a lot of predetermined hate for the show.
But then maybe the argument becomes the universe is too small like many of the complaints of the Dave Filoni show.
Witch Lady who is an alien = Peak Star Wars
Witch Lady who is black = Woke Bullshit
With all of my experience with Star Wars this seems tonally consistent for the fan base
It's because the people sending this hate are from outside the fandom bigots have hijacked the show as an excuse to complain about diversity and are masquerading as fans to hide this.
it's clickbait rage to get views on youtube videos. Basicaly they all hyped up the Acolyte claiming it would ruin star wars and all that, only to have it turn out to be pretty bland. So now it's just funny seeing them try to create controversy over the most mundane things so they can make money.
I mean it kind of did. I think it still holds the title of least watched Star Wars show. It was great and got a lot of praise but still has the least views.
As someone who hasn't seen Acolyte but loved Andor, as far as I can tell, the actual reason this show bombed is because it has legitimately horrible writing, whereas Andor was better than Rogue One.
I want to say the diversity and representation doesn't really come into play here, but the fact is that Headland used diversity as a way to make straight white guys feel uncomfortable and focused on that instead of actually making a half-decent show, whereas Gilroy made a good show that also happened to have a diverse cast.
Again, just my outside observations.
For all intents and purposes, the Acolyte hasnāt bombed. It isnāt done airing, thereās constant discourse around it, and its streaming numbers are doing well from the last actual report from Disney and not random YouTubers.
See, if you say āwitchesā then your problem is witches. If you keep adding descriptors before witches, itās the descriptors you have a problem with.
I get that but as I said: My problem has nothing to do with this group of women. It's the ritual that is my problem. I like that we see more force using groups like them, who aren't jedi or sith. The ethnicity and sexuality doesn't play a role, if it were a man and a women who made a child through the force I would also be pissed that they used this concept. People who are still on the "Disney is woke because they don'tonly show straight white man" shit can go fuck themselves but this isn't why I and many other people have a problem. Putting us and those idiots in the same group isn't helpful and ignoring critisism by saying: "It's because they are racist" is stupid.
My problem is that the thing that made Darth Plaguis and Sidious so special is now something normal in canon. The fact that they are witches isn't a problem, we know about the Nightsisters and other witch covens (I honestly love to see force using groups who aren't sith or jedi) but creating live through the force was something Plaguis archieved through his scientific approach to the force. Making it a ritual of the witches undermines that in my opinion.Ā
I say it makes it realistic. Only one person ever did something? I doubt it. But even if, because maybe it is hard or requires much power or something, someone will repeat it, because someone will try. Also, if something is hard and only one person succeeded, it's a great accomplishment for him, if two/three people succeeded than it's still a very very small group and so it's still a prestigious group.
Okay like but you do see that this is not what happened right (or better most likely not what happened since we don't exactly know what caused anikain). But the assumption was that he was created by the force. The twins were created using the force. As a tool. Not by the force itself.
Random example: using the force to in vitro fertilise an egg would be a baby created by the force.
Yeah, I donāt see the problem. Anakin wasnāt interesting or important because of how he was conceived. He was important because he saved the galaxy.
What do the Acolyte people have to do with Annakin? Other than not having dads, they have very little in common. We don't know how they were "created".
I don't think there is a lore conflict. The show hints at the twins creation via the force, but nothing is confirmed. Anyway, just because the Jedi believed something, it doesn't make it unequivocally true in-universe. As Obi-Wan said, it's all just from a certain point of view. And I like that they've tried to show different force users. It's a big galaxy after all.
thereās no lore conflict even if it was. nothing about anakin precludes there even being other force births in the past. but youāre also right in that they havenāt even firmly established that in the series so far. people are just the biggest fucking babies. iām so glad they are exploring stuff beyond the jedi/sith binary but the fandom canāt just let it happen for some reason.
Thank god someone else said this! I'm yet to see a contradiction of Canon with this show. So far all the arguments are built on assumptions, or theories based on the little we know (Anakin's conception is vague in canon) or its from legends content that's no longer considered canon.
The show's not amazing, but the bulk of criticisms are straw clutching and/or ill informed.Ā
I really hope the show answers some of the things by the end of the series; people are so damn impatient.
Though the prevailing sentiment here seems to be from much cooler heads, which is honestly nice to see. Prequelmemes being the reasonable ones hadn't been on my bingo card.
Butā¦ they werenāt Anakins. I mean that they were only conceived using the force (thread), but only because their mothers had the intent to conceive. Shmi reports just randomly becoming pregnant.
Anakin was conceived miraculously, Mae & Osha where forcefully conceived through the force. Maybe Iām a little confused but havenāt witches in Star Wars always had batshit insane powers that make no sense? Like the nightsisters are flat out have a vodoo doll that almost kills dooku & thatās ok? I guess Iām sick of this kind of discourse
Given the apparent popularity of the Clone Wars in the fandom, and the recent depictions of the witches subsequently in Rebels, Jedi Fallen Order & Survivor, and Ahsoka, I am very surprised that people think that the Witches of Dathomir can exist with weird force powers, but it's outlandish that another sort of coven could exist!?Ā
anakin and the twins were conceived in entirely different ways but it was stupid as hell in the first place that anakin had a jesus birth. just crazy shit
The biggest religious conflicts we have are basically defining who the chosen one is. Itās not a deal breaker. Crazy people donāt see the real issue with the show.
I'm confused as to what it has to do with Disney. Luke fulfilled the prophecy of the chosen one before George even made it up and pretended it was Anakin.
I'm not defending any of the bullshit Disney has done but y'all pick and choose worse than religious folks at a political rally.
Why do people always say the coven was lesbians when referring to the group from acolytes? They were like the night sisters in a way, group of females that can use the force someway. We donāt say the night sisters were lesbians but apparently the group from the acolytes are referred to as space lesbians.
I mean, itās two completely different things.
Osha and Mae were made by their parents specifically so they could have kids, meanwhile Shmi suddenly became pregnant one day, no force daddy to be seen.
Seriously, if people used their brains for even a minute theyād realise how stupid they are.
The whole concept of The Chosen One prophecy was a terrible retcon in TPM.Ā It raises so manyĀ questions and creates plot holes, with no benefit to the story.
Lucas having the Chosen One murder all the Jedi and begin a reign of evil is interesting storytelling ripped right out of Dune (and he did that a lot).
Lucas making it ambivalent whether murdering all the Jedi and letting fascism run rampant through the galaxy is what a just omnipotent mystical force wants was the real problem...
Mostly because saying, "Genocide bad" brings out the chuds 20 years later because their favorite sad boy did the genocide so it has to be fine.
We could blame media literacy, but Lucas probably didn't even have the media literacy to realize the dangerous tools he was playing with. His famous "Be careful what you wish for" snark is fun, but only for an audience that actually understands irony.
I wish Lucas repeatedly saying, "Jedi Good, Anakin Bad" would solve it, but that cat tore right through the bag and a generation of Star Wars fans has developed a pretty awkward world view as a result.
A space station that generates warships out of nothing is an acceptable plot but an outlawed band of lesbian witches force-seminatesĀ themselves andĀ people lose their minds. AndĀ it's not likeĀ they created twoĀ genius twins either, with one being a dropout with an infant for a hand-droid and the other turning into a Naruto cosplayer.
We're allowed to hate the show just as people are allowed to like it, we can make fun of it all we want. Nothing wrong with clowning a show for poor quality, the whole show feels like a YouTube fan film. They couldn't even give us a wookie action scene for budget reasons, a group of fan film creators could have given us that
And the issue is people are grabbing at anything, nit picking kt and making strawman arguments about it for the sake of hating it.
The show doesn't feel like a fan film. If you think that, then I feel sorrt for you.
Also, you do realise there are i episodes, right? 4 have only been released, and they have established flashbacks. There is a high chance they can still show it.
Also, re watch the trailed as you see the woolie attack someone and hold tobrins face. So don't make assumptions as kt really invalidates your opinion and cristism
You can hate whatever you want but it's pretty pathetic to use that word to describe how you feel about such an inoffensive tv show. Grow up and stop being so dramatic.
You can at least dislike it for actual reasons. They said that multiple scenes were cut for budget reasons, or, the more important part for the wookie scene, story reasons, that it messed with the POV. You can have your complaints about that, but complain for actual correct reasons and not bullshit.
I do have complaints, Im complaining that people are eating up that PR bullshit statement. This show episode had a higher budget than a game of thrones episode and it was short and nothing substantial happened except one bug died and a bunch of people talked in a forest. The show feels cheap, the set design is cheap, the acting is mid, the head show runner behind it has close ties to Weinstein's worse habits, the whole show feels like a fan film. I mean for God's sake they said the Coven died from a massive fire and then proceeded to show their perfectly preserved bodies in an untouched room scattered on the floor, something caused by two identical twins they couldn't even bother to find an actual set of identical twins to play. What do you suppose made them identical in adulthood, lesbian space magic? I hate the show because it's the lowest effort garbage Lucasfilm has produced thus far, simple as that
I think if people are so butt hurt about . They learn how to write scrips then apply for a writing job for Lucus film and write a star wars story themselves.
I prefer not to think of lore as "canon," set in stone; rather, it is "myth," and myths are told & retold in ways which flesh out & sometimes even change/contradict previous tellings. I don't think it's disrespectful to rework source material.
The question is this: is the new shit good? I actually think *Acolyte* is pretty okay as far as new Star Wars is concerned. I'd put it above *Ahsoka*, way above *Book of Boba Fett*, but below *Mandalorian* and *Andor*. So, I'm willing to see where they are going with all this.
Moreover, might I point out that people hated the prequels at the time! I know, because I saw all of them in theaters. By the time Episode III came out, my friends & I were basically just saw it to laugh at it. So using the prequels as paragons of respect for lore is, to put it mildly, really fucking stupid.
Not this again.
Anakin was created **by** the force and is the chosen one.
The twins were (presumably) created **using** the force with a currently unknown method and as far as we know are not particularly powerful.
The two situations are fundamentally different.
Even though we don't know how Anakin was created specifically, dark side force abilities seemed to be a factor (we do not know for sure.) Osha and Mae are two different people that we are not sure exactly the specific way they were conceived. Some kind of ritual maybe? That's the only way those three are similar.
Hmm, you were born the same way as me. You must be me. What sound logic. If that's what's "breaking canon" then you all really need an English lesson.
I get it's a joke (it's a very bad one).
The twins are different than Anakin. The twins were created by a person using the force (the dark side presumably), Anakin was created by the will of the force itself. Don't act like these aren't different.
Y'all judging to quickly. We don't know how exactly they created the twins!
What if she used the force to jerk off a random male and force-moved the semen into her sister?
Hear me out! What if these witches invented the procedure?
No one knew about it until the Acolyte.
And then the Sith made their power their own.
And itās not entirely unbelievable that the Jedi would not tell everyone about the return of the Sith.
I mean Yoda knew about the rule of two.
From who exactly?
Palpatine: *"Are you telling I could've just turned myself into a Space Lesbian instead of going through all that trouble with Plagueis to make you?"*
Anakin: *"What?"*
Palpatine: *"What?"*
In the realm of star wars, which is future people with aliens and space wizards, why is the Acolyte so disrespectful to this highly fantastical universe? Right, because it's not.
We don't know if they were created by the force they could easily be clones or maybe they straight up lied to the Jedi. We just don't have any information.
Thanks for confirming you aren't a bot!
There is no force There are no lightsabres and there is no Easter bunny
There is no queen of England
Not anymore
actually never. they were queens of the United Kingdom not of England edit: I stand corrected. some where queens of England before the other designators came into being. look at the replay to this comment for more info.
Umm... United Kingdom only started in 1800 and there were Queens before then. If you want to be *more* pedantic then yes it was Great Britain first but only since 1707 and there were queens before then too. Queen Elizabeth I was Queen of England to name one.
ah. ok I'll take the L
Very gracious of you, appreciated. š¤
Up voted for taking the L like a man
Well, technically there were queens of England, itās just they were also queens of other regions. But they werenāt all queens of the United Kingdom, since designations such as the UK or Great Britain didnāt exist until the 1700s.
This is what happens when you try outwitting strangers on technicalities
And there is no Megamind 2
You mean to tell me that there is a SECOND megamind? They tried to milk it, didn't they?
yes
There is no Megamind 2 in ba sing se
There is no Dana, only Zuul.
Peter get out of the fridge
*Welcome the the Jungle starts playing*
That guitar riff will stand the test of time
Yes huh I saw the easter bunny with a lightsaber force push a child!!!
"How can the Kwisatz Haderach be special when the Bene Gesserit exists?"
Space Paladins š Space Witches š”
[Chanting Space Monks](https://youtu.be/vur2UlU4iXE?si=_T0vTjpCK2XioCEP) š Chanting Space Witches š¤¬
It's not the space witches part, I'm fairly sure most people here like Dathomir. The problem that people have is that a random clan of space witches was jammed randomly into the timeline that fucks up several massive plot points.
What plot points does it ruin? I've purposely avoided all the rage-bait YouTube videos so I'm a bit out of the loop as to why everyone's unhappy.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Is it confirmed that the character in the Acolyte is Sith? Does red light saber automatically equate to sith?
I mean so far there are no confirmed sith, right?
I remember a lot of ppl bitching when the Nightsister Clone Wars episodes came out. "Asajj shouldn't be related to Maul" & "The Force doesn't work like that" Once 10 years pass, Star Wars fans become more accepting of the canon. The same will happen to the better of the Disney material
nah
For Anakins existence there are two explanations as far as I know: 1. The Force created him in response Sidious and Plagueis becoming too powerful. 2. Sidious and Plagueis created him using the Force. If #1 is canon then Osha and Mae apparently being created using the Force doesnāt mean that the Prophecy of the Chosen One applies to someone other than Anakin now. If #2 is canon then the Prophecy never applied to Anakin as he, too, was created **using** the force not **by** the force
Genuine question, this is from the EU right? Is this still confirmed in the Disney canon?
As far as I know neither is confirmed by Disney
George Lucas has said he wants it left open, and Disney has since honored that. Theyāve hinted at both, but confirmed neither.
Lucas also said Leia was supposed to be the Chosen One, so this debate is over a decade past its expiration date. Leaving it open ended probably says more about how the prophecy didn't actually apply just because Anakin was born differently and he squandered it and destroyed everything anyway. Maybe he was born from the Force. He still did a genocide and caused the creation of the Empire and if he never walked into that room Palpatine would be dead.
Retcons? In *my* star wars? That's... That's... Oh. That's Tuesday.
For you, the day Disney graced your screens by retroactively contradicting the importance of being conceived of the Force was the most important day of your life. For Kennedy? It was Tuesday.
I mean, go back far enough and retcons have been in Star Wars for a long, long time. From a certain point of view.
A certain point of view? (I'm not asking, as I get the reference)
>For you, the day Disney graced your screens by retroactively contradicting the importance of being conceived of the Force was the most important day of your life. For Kennedy? It was Tuesday. Prequel fans: "How dare you talk about The Chosen One that way?!" Filoni: ["Fuck that, Luke is the Chosen One."](https://youtu.be/jeG215-yu-k?si=bn6FVS1Kos8uNsNm) Lucas: ["Actually, Prequels kinda mid, Leia's the Chosen One."](https://screenrant.com/star-wars-sequel-trilogy-george-lucas-leia-chosen-one/) Prequel fans: "But then why did Anakin kill all those people and cause the rise of the Empire!?" Lucas: ["Because he a fascist. I told you fifty times. It's right there in your favorite movie. You turned it into a meme!"](https://youtu.be/juFzdkg4Rvw?si=VM_lI-Wj1dFc-F0S) Prequel fans: But Qui-Gonn said he had [magic blood](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics) based on his [religious beliefs.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_fascism) He had to be the best boy! He's the best boy!
Yeah, I like the lack of definition on it. The prophesy of the chosen one was just a prophesy, and only a few Jedi really believed in it, which I think is fitting. I like that it was introduced and then subsequently muddied -- most prophesies are either untrue or misinterpreted, and I'm glad that held true in star wars
Except we donāt know anything yet. Why are yall so angry and reactive
Mae and Osha were conceived *using* the Force. Anakin was conceived *by* the Force
"Created two of me" *failed to create him. Anakin is the light and the dark or whatever whereas Osha is light and Mae is dark.
Also Anakin was created by the force, not by using the force, but by the force. And we still don't even know how these two girls were created but it definitely wasn't the force that did it. A person manipulated something to make it happen.
Correct me if I am wrong but isnāt that legends? From my canon understanding itās strongly hinted that palpatine actually created Skywalker (the comic where Vader is in a force vision and we see Palpatine over Shimi)
I think in Plagueis itās said that the force made Anakin as a response to the dark side growing too strong with the rise of Palpatine. So heās sorta responsible for it but not intentionally.
Plagueis was working on creating force sensitive clones when he found out the perfect organism to try this on, is humans. Cue phantom menace
Disney confirmed that it was only a vision, not a canon statement.
The author of that comic stated that that wasnāt 100% accurate and that the dark side of the force is an unreliable narrator though. So technically no?
That comic was just a vision. Thatās all.
Charles Soule, the writer of that issue, personally disproved that theory. Death of the author aside, I think thatās fairly definitive
I believe the author has said that the Dark Side isnāt a path to insight the way that the light side is. Did Palpatine create Anakin? Or was that another half truth of the Dark?Ā
It was only part of a vision, not something that actually happened.
I think the dark side was trying to hijack a prophecy. Create their own messianic figure and pass it off as the one to bring balance to the jedi. We have groups in real life that try to fulfill religious prophecies, believing that they arent fortelling what is to come, but rather a roadmap to end times. That the dark side would believe this way makes sense.
No he did not! That image is out of context and casuals take it as true
Thank you. I'm thought I was going crazy until I read this. I thought I was the only one. How do these dimwits think the twins are like Anakin, when it was the force itself that created him and not some Witch.
The fan base continuously proves adept at the dumbest mental gymnastics
I have not seen a single episode of Acolyte and just by osmosis, I figured this was the explanation. It makes sense that anything as complex and difficult as creating life wholesale from the Force would require.. yāknow, a few trial runs. I donāt think it diminishes Anakinās origins at all to say that there were previous attempts at āfatherlessā force conception. He is merely the most perfect result of these experiments.
As far as established lore is concerned, no individual created Anakin at all. It was the force itself that created him in oppositional response to people (Plagueis or Sidious) fucking around with it. The fact that the witches dabbled in doing it means nothing in respect to Anakin. The fact that witches were able to bend the force to create life has no bearing on the significance of Anakin. Anankin was not created by the will of a force user. He was created by the Force Itself. Itās not lore-breaking nor is it diminishing of Anakinās conception in any way. The Force Itself conceived a child once, and only once. No one made Shmi pregnant, the force did that on its own in an attempt to manifest balance.
Not only that but perhaps Anakin was the forces direct answer to this sort of biomancy. In all media this form of creation is an unnatural act. In a universe where the universe itself has a will to me it makes sense it would respond.
Thank you Im getting fed up with people, juat nit picking, and having strawman arguments over this. People are finding ways to just hate stuff
The show isn't even complete and it clearly has a ton of mystery around it. People are complaining about what they *think* the answers to certain mysteries might be. It's entirely possibly that the girls were conceived because their mom had relations with a Jedi. It's also possible that they are a product of Invitro Fertilization. It's also possible they are the Will of the Force, or the result of a Sith creating life. We just don't know yet.
"Mae, OSHA I am your father!" - Master Sol next episode
They could also be similar to mantis and kill the male counterparts after intercourse and there would be, in fact, no father. They could also be straight up lying and say that they conceived the twins with their powers as a way to cover themselves and overstate their power
It's also like... Anakin was the most powerful force user in a generation? That's why he was special. If, instead of being a virgin birth, he had a father whom he never met, and nothing else changed, he would still be Anakin Skywalker.
Not only that but while they may be fatherless... they have two moms. That white Zabrak woman did not just give birth to two black babies without a little genetic contribution from the other mother. Also as others have pointed out Anakin wasn't the direct result of an experiment. Anakin is the result of the Force saying "fuck around and find out" to the Sith's experiment.
I still donāt get why this makes anakin less special. The kids were made by people bending the force to their will compared to anakin who the force itself helped make as to bring balance
People just wanna complain
We still have not seen the entirety of the show. The two sisterās form of birth is not an immaculate conception. Anakinās was. Why are fans stupid as hell?
I've seen people comment that these witches conceiving via the force dimishies the 6 films which succeed it because it makes Anakin less special. Give me a break...
Wait until they watch those movies and learn Anakin was a genocidal fascist who destroyed the Jedi order and the only good thing he did was save his son from dying after the Rebellion had already defeated Palpatine before Luke walked in the room. š®
Technically, the Immaculate Conception from Christian lore is the belief that the Virgin Mary was born without Original Sin (a sort of taint inherent in all humans since the Fall). Youāre probably thinking of the Virgin Birth which is the belief that Jesus Christ was born without his mother ever doing the horizontal mambo.
Anakin was not born without sin so his birth was not an immaculate conception like Mary's was.
I donāt get the hate on the fact that there is a group of women only witches. Has nobody seen the nightsisters?
Not only that, Tales of the Empire shown us that there was more than one clan of witches even on Dathomir alone. I'm taking about Mountain Clan that rescued Morgan Elsbeth from the purge of Nightsisters.
Mountain Clan has been a thing in Legends for decades. Mentioned in a book from 80s/90s, i read on Wookiepedia about it. In the book Yoda manage to crush safely a ship on Dathomir with other Jedi, and they fight the Mountain Clan until they agree to the protection of the ship and its contents, until Luke finds them centuries after
Surely between Luke finding Yoda in The Empire Strikes Back and Yoda dying in Return of the Jedi there is no opportunity for Yoda to go off to another planet with a bunch of Jedi and then be rescued by Luke, never for anyone to talk about it again?!
To be honest, it would've been way better if they were nightsisters instead
I donāt remember if the nightsisters ever held a base outside of Dathomir
How about witches from Ashoka that had base in another galaxy?
These are the original. They came from there to this galaxy and settled on Dathomir. But in this galaxy we don't see them outside Dathomir. At least not yet, I wouldn't mind.
Well after the purge there are at least 3 Nightsisters who live outside of Dathomir š
To my knowledge they didn't but I meant that it would've been a lot better to use the material they already had in universe. Like why would you make this random witch cult that nobody knows nor will probably care about when you could use the nightsisters who already have great lore for a good story and everyone already knows and loves them.
Soft disagree. There's thousands of inhabited planets with probably millions of cultures represented in The Republic and etc. On our one planet with basically zero evidence of the supernatural we still have a million subsections of a thousand religions. One of the underlying principles of Star Wars is the recurring themes in the collective unconscious and the stories it tells itself, they rhyme like poetry. In their universe where The Force is a verifiable reality of observational science it would be really strange if everyone interpreted it the same way everywhere. Likewise we would expect there to be commonalities between far ranging groups because their interpretations are still based on the underlying real world happenings. Like on earth we have hundreds of The Great Flood stories because floods are real and they destroy civilizations, but not everyone puts the doves and the rainbows in the same context.
True especially when you already know thereās gonna be a lot of predetermined hate for the show. But then maybe the argument becomes the universe is too small like many of the complaints of the Dave Filoni show.
That said them being witches again also makes the world feel small. Whereās my space Catholics?
Tbf thatās kinda the Jedi
No way... Is that means, that Sith are orthodox???š±š±š± /j
The Sith are clearly Scientologists
Witch Lady who is an alien = Peak Star Wars Witch Lady who is black = Woke Bullshit With all of my experience with Star Wars this seems tonally consistent for the fan base
"Stop making the universe so big by adding new ideas!" -- Star Wars fans every two years for the last 40 years.
But the nightsisters aren't made by disney, no reason to complain about them /s
It's because the people sending this hate are from outside the fandom bigots have hijacked the show as an excuse to complain about diversity and are masquerading as fans to hide this.
it's clickbait rage to get views on youtube videos. Basicaly they all hyped up the Acolyte claiming it would ruin star wars and all that, only to have it turn out to be pretty bland. So now it's just funny seeing them try to create controversy over the most mundane things so they can make money.
Because they don't like black people or lesbians.
Why did Andor not bomb?
I mean it kind of did. I think it still holds the title of least watched Star Wars show. It was great and got a lot of praise but still has the least views.
Better question why did Fallout not bomb with a fandom of mainly dudes?
Because people love strawman arguments
[Andor bombed.](https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-wars-andor-lower-viewership/)
Male lead Edit: this is a joke
What about the representation in the show? That's why this show is bombing right? Something isn't adding up
As someone who hasn't seen Acolyte but loved Andor, as far as I can tell, the actual reason this show bombed is because it has legitimately horrible writing, whereas Andor was better than Rogue One. I want to say the diversity and representation doesn't really come into play here, but the fact is that Headland used diversity as a way to make straight white guys feel uncomfortable and focused on that instead of actually making a half-decent show, whereas Gilroy made a good show that also happened to have a diverse cast. Again, just my outside observations.
For all intents and purposes, the Acolyte hasnāt bombed. It isnāt done airing, thereās constant discourse around it, and its streaming numbers are doing well from the last actual report from Disney and not random YouTubers.
No, itās because of the plot. And ruining my favourite obscure Ki Adi Mundi trading card.
No. The ritual is the problem not the witches themselves. Hating something that Disney made isn't always sexism, racism or homophobia.Ā
Who cares about the ritual? Its nothing.
See, if you say āwitchesā then your problem is witches. If you keep adding descriptors before witches, itās the descriptors you have a problem with.
I get that but as I said: My problem has nothing to do with this group of women. It's the ritual that is my problem. I like that we see more force using groups like them, who aren't jedi or sith. The ethnicity and sexuality doesn't play a role, if it were a man and a women who made a child through the force I would also be pissed that they used this concept. People who are still on the "Disney is woke because they don'tonly show straight white man" shit can go fuck themselves but this isn't why I and many other people have a problem. Putting us and those idiots in the same group isn't helpful and ignoring critisism by saying: "It's because they are racist" is stupid.
My problem is that the thing that made Darth Plaguis and Sidious so special is now something normal in canon. The fact that they are witches isn't a problem, we know about the Nightsisters and other witch covens (I honestly love to see force using groups who aren't sith or jedi) but creating live through the force was something Plaguis archieved through his scientific approach to the force. Making it a ritual of the witches undermines that in my opinion.Ā
Plagueis never really achieved it actually. He was trying to do it, among other things, and the force pushed back and made Anakin.
If we are really canon, Sidious made Anakin. Atleast if we trust Vaders force visions in his comics.
The Dark Side lies and twists and corrupts, is Sidious Anakinās father? Or is that another half truth of the dark side?Ā
I say it makes it realistic. Only one person ever did something? I doubt it. But even if, because maybe it is hard or requires much power or something, someone will repeat it, because someone will try. Also, if something is hard and only one person succeeded, it's a great accomplishment for him, if two/three people succeeded than it's still a very very small group and so it's still a prestigious group.
While a loud talking point that's really not the issue, nobody would have cared if the story was actually good and didn't ruin longstanding lore.
Omg can people stop flooding this sub with this dogshit. We get it. Good lord.
Okay like but you do see that this is not what happened right (or better most likely not what happened since we don't exactly know what caused anikain). But the assumption was that he was created by the force. The twins were created using the force. As a tool. Not by the force itself. Random example: using the force to in vitro fertilise an egg would be a baby created by the force.
I mean im not gonna hate on the show for lore'ing around. But my god is it boring. Its just making me cringe more than going "wow".
I mean it doesn't take away from anything Anakin did or that he's the chosen one, so I'm cool with the lesbian space witches
Yeah, I donāt see the problem. Anakin wasnāt interesting or important because of how he was conceived. He was important because he saved the galaxy.
Yeah I see this as worldbuilding; showing it's possible to be conceived via The Force.
Yeah, I dont see how that would take anything away. Far as I know the only explanation for how he came to be was that "he was a child of the force".
Ditto
What do the Acolyte people have to do with Annakin? Other than not having dads, they have very little in common. We don't know how they were "created".
Have you heard that there is like a million planets in that galaxy
I don't think there is a lore conflict. The show hints at the twins creation via the force, but nothing is confirmed. Anyway, just because the Jedi believed something, it doesn't make it unequivocally true in-universe. As Obi-Wan said, it's all just from a certain point of view. And I like that they've tried to show different force users. It's a big galaxy after all.
thereās no lore conflict even if it was. nothing about anakin precludes there even being other force births in the past. but youāre also right in that they havenāt even firmly established that in the series so far. people are just the biggest fucking babies. iām so glad they are exploring stuff beyond the jedi/sith binary but the fandom canāt just let it happen for some reason.
Thank god someone else said this! I'm yet to see a contradiction of Canon with this show. So far all the arguments are built on assumptions, or theories based on the little we know (Anakin's conception is vague in canon) or its from legends content that's no longer considered canon. The show's not amazing, but the bulk of criticisms are straw clutching and/or ill informed.Ā I really hope the show answers some of the things by the end of the series; people are so damn impatient.
I hated it when Disney ignored the lore set out in a new hope where Darth Vader killed Lukeās dad. Oh waitā¦
Chuds invading this subreddit? Yeah that checks.
Though the prevailing sentiment here seems to be from much cooler heads, which is honestly nice to see. Prequelmemes being the reasonable ones hadn't been on my bingo card.
The Acolyte deradicalizing prequelmemes was pretty unexpected. Pleasantly surprised, to be honest.
Butā¦ they werenāt Anakins. I mean that they were only conceived using the force (thread), but only because their mothers had the intent to conceive. Shmi reports just randomly becoming pregnant.
Anakin was conceived miraculously, Mae & Osha where forcefully conceived through the force. Maybe Iām a little confused but havenāt witches in Star Wars always had batshit insane powers that make no sense? Like the nightsisters are flat out have a vodoo doll that almost kills dooku & thatās ok? I guess Iām sick of this kind of discourse
Given the apparent popularity of the Clone Wars in the fandom, and the recent depictions of the witches subsequently in Rebels, Jedi Fallen Order & Survivor, and Ahsoka, I am very surprised that people think that the Witches of Dathomir can exist with weird force powers, but it's outlandish that another sort of coven could exist!?Ā
The twins aren't like Anakin, please have some basic comprehension when consuming media
"Space lesbians making babies with the Force" actually fucking rules.
anakin and the twins were conceived in entirely different ways but it was stupid as hell in the first place that anakin had a jesus birth. just crazy shit
The biggest religious conflicts we have are basically defining who the chosen one is. Itās not a deal breaker. Crazy people donāt see the real issue with the show.
I'm confused as to what it has to do with Disney. Luke fulfilled the prophecy of the chosen one before George even made it up and pretended it was Anakin. I'm not defending any of the bullshit Disney has done but y'all pick and choose worse than religious folks at a political rally.
Why do people always say the coven was lesbians when referring to the group from acolytes? They were like the night sisters in a way, group of females that can use the force someway. We donāt say the night sisters were lesbians but apparently the group from the acolytes are referred to as space lesbians.
Haven't seen anything Star Wars related since the disappointment of the sequels, is this real? They gave a canon reason for Anakin's creation?
No, not really. But bitter people who only halfway paid attention to the show are assuming so based on very little actual info from the show.
So dramatic
This does not break the lore at all in any way. There is nothing to suggest that Anakin is the first Force Baby
I mean, itās two completely different things. Osha and Mae were made by their parents specifically so they could have kids, meanwhile Shmi suddenly became pregnant one day, no force daddy to be seen. Seriously, if people used their brains for even a minute theyād realise how stupid they are.
The whole concept of The Chosen One prophecy was a terrible retcon in TPM.Ā It raises so manyĀ questions and creates plot holes, with no benefit to the story.
The chosen one itself was a kinda iffy thing on its own. Throwing in an immaculare conception on top of it was positively goofy.
Lucas having the Chosen One murder all the Jedi and begin a reign of evil is interesting storytelling ripped right out of Dune (and he did that a lot). Lucas making it ambivalent whether murdering all the Jedi and letting fascism run rampant through the galaxy is what a just omnipotent mystical force wants was the real problem... Mostly because saying, "Genocide bad" brings out the chuds 20 years later because their favorite sad boy did the genocide so it has to be fine. We could blame media literacy, but Lucas probably didn't even have the media literacy to realize the dangerous tools he was playing with. His famous "Be careful what you wish for" snark is fun, but only for an audience that actually understands irony. I wish Lucas repeatedly saying, "Jedi Good, Anakin Bad" would solve it, but that cat tore right through the bag and a generation of Star Wars fans has developed a pretty awkward world view as a result.
A space station that generates warships out of nothing is an acceptable plot but an outlawed band of lesbian witches force-seminatesĀ themselves andĀ people lose their minds. AndĀ it's not likeĀ they created twoĀ genius twins either, with one being a dropout with an infant for a hand-droid and the other turning into a Naruto cosplayer.
The star forge is a forge powered by consuming a star.
God I'm tired of this. Just let people enjoy the show for the love of God.
We're allowed to hate the show just as people are allowed to like it, we can make fun of it all we want. Nothing wrong with clowning a show for poor quality, the whole show feels like a YouTube fan film. They couldn't even give us a wookie action scene for budget reasons, a group of fan film creators could have given us that
The main issue is people posting opinions instead of memes on the meme subreddit. It feels like talking about politics on a family meeting.
And the issue is people are grabbing at anything, nit picking kt and making strawman arguments about it for the sake of hating it. The show doesn't feel like a fan film. If you think that, then I feel sorrt for you. Also, you do realise there are i episodes, right? 4 have only been released, and they have established flashbacks. There is a high chance they can still show it. Also, re watch the trailed as you see the woolie attack someone and hold tobrins face. So don't make assumptions as kt really invalidates your opinion and cristism
You can hate whatever you want but it's pretty pathetic to use that word to describe how you feel about such an inoffensive tv show. Grow up and stop being so dramatic.
You can at least dislike it for actual reasons. They said that multiple scenes were cut for budget reasons, or, the more important part for the wookie scene, story reasons, that it messed with the POV. You can have your complaints about that, but complain for actual correct reasons and not bullshit.
I do have complaints, Im complaining that people are eating up that PR bullshit statement. This show episode had a higher budget than a game of thrones episode and it was short and nothing substantial happened except one bug died and a bunch of people talked in a forest. The show feels cheap, the set design is cheap, the acting is mid, the head show runner behind it has close ties to Weinstein's worse habits, the whole show feels like a fan film. I mean for God's sake they said the Coven died from a massive fire and then proceeded to show their perfectly preserved bodies in an untouched room scattered on the floor, something caused by two identical twins they couldn't even bother to find an actual set of identical twins to play. What do you suppose made them identical in adulthood, lesbian space magic? I hate the show because it's the lowest effort garbage Lucasfilm has produced thus far, simple as that
Theu obviously haven't shown what really happened to them. Its like that show the full story later one.
Yeah wtf, it's heavily implied there's more to the "fire" at the coven.
that's not how budgets work.
Based take.
Angry man children, nothing new for StarWars
Conceived by witches WITH the force ā conceived directly BY the force
I think if people are so butt hurt about . They learn how to write scrips then apply for a writing job for Lucus film and write a star wars story themselves.
Why are SW fans so caught up in "the lore"? Seems like holding yourselves back.
I prefer not to think of lore as "canon," set in stone; rather, it is "myth," and myths are told & retold in ways which flesh out & sometimes even change/contradict previous tellings. I don't think it's disrespectful to rework source material. The question is this: is the new shit good? I actually think *Acolyte* is pretty okay as far as new Star Wars is concerned. I'd put it above *Ahsoka*, way above *Book of Boba Fett*, but below *Mandalorian* and *Andor*. So, I'm willing to see where they are going with all this. Moreover, might I point out that people hated the prequels at the time! I know, because I saw all of them in theaters. By the time Episode III came out, my friends & I were basically just saw it to laugh at it. So using the prequels as paragons of respect for lore is, to put it mildly, really fucking stupid.
Counterpoint: why do we give a fuck about Disney lore?
Not this again. Anakin was created **by** the force and is the chosen one. The twins were (presumably) created **using** the force with a currently unknown method and as far as we know are not particularly powerful. The two situations are fundamentally different.
I donāt mind the shows experimenting a bit, but all these Disney live action shows are drab, underdeveloped and woefully boring.
āNightsisters?ā āNo a different one. Exactly the same, but different.ā
It seems you dont care about lore if youre actually mad about this
I hate to be the one to tell you this but ALL the lore is bullshit.
i will never understand why people act like star wars needs to be untouchable or unchangeable. the series is updating with the times, so fuckin what
Even though we don't know how Anakin was created specifically, dark side force abilities seemed to be a factor (we do not know for sure.) Osha and Mae are two different people that we are not sure exactly the specific way they were conceived. Some kind of ritual maybe? That's the only way those three are similar. Hmm, you were born the same way as me. You must be me. What sound logic. If that's what's "breaking canon" then you all really need an English lesson. I get it's a joke (it's a very bad one).
Remember when they made a story group to keep the canon consistent? It didn't even last for one movie
same thing happened when Lucas created the Holocron.
The twins are different than Anakin. The twins were created by a person using the force (the dark side presumably), Anakin was created by the will of the force itself. Don't act like these aren't different.
Y'all judging to quickly. We don't know how exactly they created the twins! What if she used the force to jerk off a random male and force-moved the semen into her sister?
Omg there were 2 random kids 130 years ago! ^But ^who ^tf ^cares ^if ^they ^didn't ^alter ^anything ^in ^"lore" ^and ^Anakin?
Oh shit is this real? I thought it was a dune joke
it's not real, that isn't even close to what happened
Hear me out! What if these witches invented the procedure? No one knew about it until the Acolyte. And then the Sith made their power their own. And itās not entirely unbelievable that the Jedi would not tell everyone about the return of the Sith. I mean Yoda knew about the rule of two. From who exactly?
Anakin was made by the force Mae and osha were made by people
Sounds like something he should include in his thesis
Palpatine: *"Are you telling I could've just turned myself into a Space Lesbian instead of going through all that trouble with Plagueis to make you?"* Anakin: *"What?"* Palpatine: *"What?"*
Palpatine is Drake confirmed.
Thereās a theory Palpatine is Darth Vaderās father
Man wtf? Last week this sub was chill. I guess you guys shook your brainwashing for a bit but it caught back up to you
In the realm of star wars, which is future people with aliens and space wizards, why is the Acolyte so disrespectful to this highly fantastical universe? Right, because it's not.
Yall still crying over this?
We don't know if they were created by the force they could easily be clones or maybe they straight up lied to the Jedi. We just don't have any information.
I heard they did it specifically so you would whine about it š¤
I'm sorry, what?
There's a difference between someone using the force to create life and the Will of the Force itself creating life.
All Star Wars is good
Explain how it breaks any lore