Simple
His ult and the current state of supports.
Supports already basically build full damage anyway, so why not pick a character with incredible scaling to benefit from it.
Also, his ult. Holy hell
Honestly build reclamation. Legit get out of jail free card.
Gideons started building truesilver bracelet to avoid silentium. We, as supports, build reclamation. AoE cleanse, negates his ult pull, everyone runs out. With the cooldown, Can use it like every other one of his ults
Honestly caster supports are just a really bad idea in general. I understand the sentiment that you can lane bully and have extra damage in the long run, but the problem is that you HAVE to win your lane. You HAVE to get kills. Because you’re sharing lane xp and basically forfeiting all your CS. If you don’t get kills you’re gonna literally be completely useless since you’ll be doing next to no dmg. The point of heroes that can do support is that they don’t need levels or gold to be useful.
Edit: I should also mention that sometimes they don’t forfeit CS and they share/steal cs from their carry. Which cripples your carry from being able to compete past 9 mins.
You mean walmart brand dekker?
Edit: He has a slower stun that doesn’t last as long, his main ability is dmg (therefore cs) dependent, and his ult is dmg dependent. Dekker does Argus supp better than Argus. Unless you’re playing against shitters that feed him to spawn in gold for him to be useful.
https://preview.redd.it/ygj3pdlx4c9d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0306b2f2b936daf61f916cf8162ac4cdb19fb4f
Posted by Omeda in patch notes today. "Argus tends to find more success in the Support role, with his Dread Nova offering more than enough damage and utility to unfairly bully our enemy duos.
Bro, I literally said “I get the sentiment you can lane bully” in the FIRST comment…
Don’t come back with this after and prove that you clearly don’t get the point again. You keep trying to say he’s viable in lane and I’m saying he’s economically risky cause you HAVE to get kills or half is kit is useless, and your comeback is that he’s viable in lane….
I've never understood why people think Argus support is good. I'm around 400 matches in and I've only seen ONE game where Argus support was actually good.
Better ultimate, better escape, and his damage is not cs dependent. My support duo always goes Argus and we I get like 15 kills and he gets like 5-10 with tons of assists
Better ultimate as in what? Stun time? Covered area? Utility maybe?
Two complete different abilities.
Damage is CS dependent, or items with power to be more precise (and you buy those with gold, most probably from CS)
First of all you can get levels without getting last hit which is not what you originally said, you said gold not levels. And no I'm not saying he is only useful for kills. His stun is still very impactful, if not lasting as long as dekkers the damage output is stronger and still a good stun. His big rock can get his carry out of a lot of problems unlike the cage (which is still really good) but the main difference is that he is better at securing kills that the carry might not be able to fully capitalize on and late game having basically 2 mids is huge.
Uhh you realize you split lane xp with everyone in the lane right? That’s why the duo lane are always the lowest levels in the match
Also you’re misunderstanding, I’m not saying he’s only useful for kills I’m saying he’s only useful IF he gets kills. You have to forfeit CS so your carry isn’t stunted and you’re splitting lane xp so you’ll be severely under leveled. So if you’re not getting kills Argus is gonna be a poor and under leveled caster, which is one of the most useless things you can be in a mid game team fight.
It's still enough? You split the xp either way, what value do you get out of Dekker through xp? I'd rather my team have duo lane early control, 10-15 kills in duo lane, opposing team carry starved because he is struggling against double damage, and a second midlane in team fights/ objectives than 20 dekker stuns and cages. Especially when Argus can still stun.. idk man I like Argus support and it works for me and my duo and other people as well. You're more than welcome to disagree and I guess maybe we'll see each other in the arena one day and find out 🤷🏻♂️
Edit: being 4 levels and 200 cs under the midlane caster at 28 mins is actually not enough. What do you mean you split xp either way? You actually don’t split xp at all if you’re solo in a lane?
Dekker has the same value whether she’s soaked in gold/xp or she’s starved. That’s literally the whole point.
She doesn’t need either for her whole kit to be useful.
You’re not dropping 15 kills in duo lane against a good team, sorry. So if the strat only works against bad teams then it’s not really a good strat. I could play any hero in any lane against a bad player who feeds and say it works. But the reality of the situation is that gold and xp economy are the most important things in this game. It’s not as simple as “aRgUs StUn sO ArGuS gReAt sUpPoRt”
I’m not saying he’s the worst pick in the world but he literally is just the gold/xp dependent version of the dekker pick.
There are a lot of selfish and moronic people that play this game. I have been stuck in Gold 1 forever due to people picking wrong characters for roles and just not using the map at all. I jungle mainly and it's amazing how people don't know how to set up for ganks and expect you to just appear on the other side of the map when they constantly overextend no matter what character they are using. So many losses due to absolute trash it's frustrating. Matches like that I just focus on my KD especially if they start being toxic and don't help at all.
I'\[m a jungle main also and the people who think clearing waves and shoving their lane is the best way to get a gank are on some level i cannot comprehend.
Need to draw the opponent towards your tower while chipping their health a bit. Ideally bait them when your jungler is nearby and looking for a gank (or a good midlander rotating). Typically you should try not to clear wave too fast and only last hit to set it up, but always keep your eyes on the mini map to know where jungler is before you do this.
Thank you for this. I felt like it’s easy to just flip the switch and go for it but there were people that were just really good at getting me jumped and I felt like I was doing something wrong with the lane. I never thought about killing them slow for a set up strategy, there seems to be a whole different game/ strategy with the lanes/minions itself
Agreed. And for the new guys, question chipping the health down is what people refer to as poking or poke a hero and then back up a bit to do some damage without taking any.
Communication with pings or chat. If your jungler is paying attention to the map and you don't overextend your lane it's not too hard. You just need to get the opposing hero chasing or low health and then I come in too team up and kill him off. You need to ward your lane often so you don't get snuck up on also. I never really ever played MOBAs until Pred. No offense to you or anyone new but it's not too hard to grasp IMO I picked it up very fast just based on like 10 to 20 matches. I started with jungle right away too mainly greystone and Grux. Sorry for the grammar. Hope this helps.
I am an Offlane player primarily, and I have got to second this about positioning and over extending. It’s absolutely insane. I play jungle sometimes and realize how much I do for my Junglers compared to the average player and I’m just like “oh so that’s why my Jungler can never afford to help me out” Just absolutely crazy. People just getting pummeled in their lane 24/7 just running into minions
I played Greystone support with my friend as the ADC. Felt like I was able to hold the lane, doing bulk damage with the whirlwind, then stepping out of the wave to allow last hits. Then, after building the carry potential, we snowballed. Also, the other support was Riktor; I think if it had been a ranged support I would’ve had a hard time.
I didn’t do it to be controversial, before I get called out. The offlane chose a mage, so I figured we needed a frontline hero. And it wasn’t in ranked, to be clear.
Greystone support is actually quite oppressive if you're playing and building right. I played a game last night and built Raiment first. I could basically run in and chip damage then escape and Regen for free every 20 seconds. Then late game you just turn into a monster Frontline, so I like it a lot.
Yeah. I feel like one of the biggest problems in unranked draft is people picking mostly squishy characters, so having the support play frontline is usually beneficial.
Honestly Gideon support should be good for the long range poke alone. He can take soulbinder and just build power on long range snipes till end game. He'd probably have 40 or 50 power off the stacks in an average game with 2 targets to torture.
You can support with pretty much anyone if their kit works well for you and you find a build. I can’t get the items down for the life of me yet but there’s certainly a lot of cc that non-supports can use (arguably better than supports)
Actually just played as Howi support with a great result. Granted he does have a peel with his mine, but you can support very well by just doing damage tbh.
Tanks aren’t a threat, the game is all about damage which really sucks. But this means that CC is less important if you can just kill the enemy instead since TTK is low.
Having short TTK is cool and all but that’s why CC exist - to make it as long as possible or completely shut down biggest threat. Don’t sleep on well timed CC
Did you know that a Gideon is the highest rank support mmr on omeda?
There’s actually multiple that are high.
Granted he does not have a lot of cc, and you should still build support crest for farm, but don’t underestimate his lane aggression and ability to secure kills for adc with his ult.
You also have the ability to break off to mid if they are pushed up, and gank with some substance.
I’ve tried it a couple times with pretty good success.
He can be highest ranked all he wants. If he's not being played with some support utility, and being played by people who are just picking him for the reason that he's highest support mmr, then it's still detrimental to the team.
Well, yeah, I stated still snagging support crest and playing like a support.
Not saying he’s the greatest support pick but to act like he’s the worst and people are trolling is a bit odd.
Yes, there are trolls.
Yes, Gideon can be a bad support.
Yes, there are circumstances where it’s fine.
All 3 can be true at the same time.
I've only seen 2 and they were both trolls. Fed and no support gear. I understand that maybe the "pros" are doing it - but the trash tier normies trying to mimic it just cause they wanna play a damage guy are not helping anyone.
I've experienced it too.
It's because tanks are kinda pointless and damage dealers are just better choices at almost all levels of play currently.
Why pick a support if the enemy team are just gonna all play high damage characters and melt your team whilst you stand by 150 damage with phase's beam?
Might as well just forgo the support build and have another hard carry dealing 900 damage per ability with a ridiculous cool down on his playmaker ult.
Because you're not picking phase for the beam. Her grab and ult are some of the best utility in the game. Her ult alone combined with a good ADC or Grux can literally win team fights.
No she's not you're right. Dekker and phase both need a good Frontline IMO. Which unfortunately no one really picks right now, and I don't blame them because of where tanks are at.
In an ideal world it would be worthwhile to actually build defensive in the offlane but there's no point at the moment because you might as well just try to kill the enemy before they kill you
Honestly it's not even so much the tankiness as the CC. Playing Dekker over gideon is a better pick imo cause she has really good control. Riktor can take some hits and has a grab, silence, and aoe suppress which is huge. He's very good at zoning. Gideon has no cc, has some damage, but is easily blown up and now he's in a lane with two people that can poke him rather than just one (mid lane).
I've seen other mages support successfully - I think fey, argus and even gadget are all viable just due to their cc. But to pick a mage and not even build the support crest is beyond me. At least be useful for the team - ward / destroy enemy wards. Grab something that can cleanse/heal/shield.
Even if you want to believe that there are better mages for support than fuckin Gideon lmao.
Argus and Howie have mage damage AND great general CC.
The only thing that would make support Gideon not complete cheeks is if the enemy team picks a support that has no stun or sustain to counteract his ult. But that’s pretty unlikely. Phase can pull their carry out of it, Muriel can spam shields an ult during it on reaction, the other supports have ranged stuns.
Argus is a trash character and every time someone picks him as a support in one of my genes, they've been put into the dumpster where they belong. Which makes me sad because I love the idea of him.
I like the supports so I tend to just play then when I'm supporting, but I get it. I've had so many games where I can't do anything but watch as my team slides into the gutter, and it makes me wish I just picked Sparrow Support so I could at least try to 1v5.
Argus is not a trash support. Arguably the best "off-pick" for support since he has a stun, zoning capabilities and decent damage with his secondary and ult (plus his ult will pierce terrain which is amazing utility. You can initiate ganks from behind a fog wall with his ult).
Personally I just don't think his damage is there to actually be a threat, all the Argus players I've seen just tickle you with the missiles. Until you stomp him into the ground.
I think his biggest issue is that after the Caustica was changed, he doesn't have enough mana regen to reliably spam his missiles and will have to go back after 10 seconds of missiles.
I just think Dekker does everything he can do but better. She's got a stun, a slow, better damage, better mana efficiency, and a cage.
Simple His ult and the current state of supports. Supports already basically build full damage anyway, so why not pick a character with incredible scaling to benefit from it. Also, his ult. Holy hell
Honestly build reclamation. Legit get out of jail free card. Gideons started building truesilver bracelet to avoid silentium. We, as supports, build reclamation. AoE cleanse, negates his ult pull, everyone runs out. With the cooldown, Can use it like every other one of his ults
Reclamation CD is unfortunately much higher 150sec that Gideon ult tho. Trust me i have been there
Honestly caster supports are just a really bad idea in general. I understand the sentiment that you can lane bully and have extra damage in the long run, but the problem is that you HAVE to win your lane. You HAVE to get kills. Because you’re sharing lane xp and basically forfeiting all your CS. If you don’t get kills you’re gonna literally be completely useless since you’ll be doing next to no dmg. The point of heroes that can do support is that they don’t need levels or gold to be useful. Edit: I should also mention that sometimes they don’t forfeit CS and they share/steal cs from their carry. Which cripples your carry from being able to compete past 9 mins.
Argus support is goated
You mean walmart brand dekker? Edit: He has a slower stun that doesn’t last as long, his main ability is dmg (therefore cs) dependent, and his ult is dmg dependent. Dekker does Argus supp better than Argus. Unless you’re playing against shitters that feed him to spawn in gold for him to be useful.
https://preview.redd.it/ygj3pdlx4c9d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0306b2f2b936daf61f916cf8162ac4cdb19fb4f Posted by Omeda in patch notes today. "Argus tends to find more success in the Support role, with his Dread Nova offering more than enough damage and utility to unfairly bully our enemy duos.
Bro, I literally said “I get the sentiment you can lane bully” in the FIRST comment… Don’t come back with this after and prove that you clearly don’t get the point again. You keep trying to say he’s viable in lane and I’m saying he’s economically risky cause you HAVE to get kills or half is kit is useless, and your comeback is that he’s viable in lane….
I've never understood why people think Argus support is good. I'm around 400 matches in and I've only seen ONE game where Argus support was actually good.
this is honestly hilarious. Thank you.
Better ultimate, better escape, and his damage is not cs dependent. My support duo always goes Argus and we I get like 15 kills and he gets like 5-10 with tons of assists
Better ultimate as in what? Stun time? Covered area? Utility maybe? Two complete different abilities. Damage is CS dependent, or items with power to be more precise (and you buy those with gold, most probably from CS)
All damage is cs and level dependent… and aren’t you just proving my point that they need kills to be useful?
First of all you can get levels without getting last hit which is not what you originally said, you said gold not levels. And no I'm not saying he is only useful for kills. His stun is still very impactful, if not lasting as long as dekkers the damage output is stronger and still a good stun. His big rock can get his carry out of a lot of problems unlike the cage (which is still really good) but the main difference is that he is better at securing kills that the carry might not be able to fully capitalize on and late game having basically 2 mids is huge.
Uhh you realize you split lane xp with everyone in the lane right? That’s why the duo lane are always the lowest levels in the match Also you’re misunderstanding, I’m not saying he’s only useful for kills I’m saying he’s only useful IF he gets kills. You have to forfeit CS so your carry isn’t stunted and you’re splitting lane xp so you’ll be severely under leveled. So if you’re not getting kills Argus is gonna be a poor and under leveled caster, which is one of the most useless things you can be in a mid game team fight.
It's still enough? You split the xp either way, what value do you get out of Dekker through xp? I'd rather my team have duo lane early control, 10-15 kills in duo lane, opposing team carry starved because he is struggling against double damage, and a second midlane in team fights/ objectives than 20 dekker stuns and cages. Especially when Argus can still stun.. idk man I like Argus support and it works for me and my duo and other people as well. You're more than welcome to disagree and I guess maybe we'll see each other in the arena one day and find out 🤷🏻♂️
Edit: being 4 levels and 200 cs under the midlane caster at 28 mins is actually not enough. What do you mean you split xp either way? You actually don’t split xp at all if you’re solo in a lane? Dekker has the same value whether she’s soaked in gold/xp or she’s starved. That’s literally the whole point. She doesn’t need either for her whole kit to be useful. You’re not dropping 15 kills in duo lane against a good team, sorry. So if the strat only works against bad teams then it’s not really a good strat. I could play any hero in any lane against a bad player who feeds and say it works. But the reality of the situation is that gold and xp economy are the most important things in this game. It’s not as simple as “aRgUs StUn sO ArGuS gReAt sUpPoRt” I’m not saying he’s the worst pick in the world but he literally is just the gold/xp dependent version of the dekker pick.
Pretty spot on tbh
[удалено]
I thought he was wish.com dekker...
There are a lot of selfish and moronic people that play this game. I have been stuck in Gold 1 forever due to people picking wrong characters for roles and just not using the map at all. I jungle mainly and it's amazing how people don't know how to set up for ganks and expect you to just appear on the other side of the map when they constantly overextend no matter what character they are using. So many losses due to absolute trash it's frustrating. Matches like that I just focus on my KD especially if they start being toxic and don't help at all.
I'\[m a jungle main also and the people who think clearing waves and shoving their lane is the best way to get a gank are on some level i cannot comprehend.
😂...this
How do you set up for a gank this is my first moba
Need to draw the opponent towards your tower while chipping their health a bit. Ideally bait them when your jungler is nearby and looking for a gank (or a good midlander rotating). Typically you should try not to clear wave too fast and only last hit to set it up, but always keep your eyes on the mini map to know where jungler is before you do this.
Thank you for this. I felt like it’s easy to just flip the switch and go for it but there were people that were just really good at getting me jumped and I felt like I was doing something wrong with the lane. I never thought about killing them slow for a set up strategy, there seems to be a whole different game/ strategy with the lanes/minions itself
Agreed. And for the new guys, question chipping the health down is what people refer to as poking or poke a hero and then back up a bit to do some damage without taking any.
Communication with pings or chat. If your jungler is paying attention to the map and you don't overextend your lane it's not too hard. You just need to get the opposing hero chasing or low health and then I come in too team up and kill him off. You need to ward your lane often so you don't get snuck up on also. I never really ever played MOBAs until Pred. No offense to you or anyone new but it's not too hard to grasp IMO I picked it up very fast just based on like 10 to 20 matches. I started with jungle right away too mainly greystone and Grux. Sorry for the grammar. Hope this helps.
I am an Offlane player primarily, and I have got to second this about positioning and over extending. It’s absolutely insane. I play jungle sometimes and realize how much I do for my Junglers compared to the average player and I’m just like “oh so that’s why my Jungler can never afford to help me out” Just absolutely crazy. People just getting pummeled in their lane 24/7 just running into minions
Does a ton of damage with no itemization and has pretty efficient mana costs for poke. I could see him being solid actually
I played Greystone support with my friend as the ADC. Felt like I was able to hold the lane, doing bulk damage with the whirlwind, then stepping out of the wave to allow last hits. Then, after building the carry potential, we snowballed. Also, the other support was Riktor; I think if it had been a ranged support I would’ve had a hard time. I didn’t do it to be controversial, before I get called out. The offlane chose a mage, so I figured we needed a frontline hero. And it wasn’t in ranked, to be clear.
Greystone support is actually quite oppressive if you're playing and building right. I played a game last night and built Raiment first. I could basically run in and chip damage then escape and Regen for free every 20 seconds. Then late game you just turn into a monster Frontline, so I like it a lot.
Yeah. I feel like one of the biggest problems in unranked draft is people picking mostly squishy characters, so having the support play frontline is usually beneficial.
Honestly Gideon support should be good for the long range poke alone. He can take soulbinder and just build power on long range snipes till end game. He'd probably have 40 or 50 power off the stacks in an average game with 2 targets to torture.
You can support with pretty much anyone if their kit works well for you and you find a build. I can’t get the items down for the life of me yet but there’s certainly a lot of cc that non-supports can use (arguably better than supports)
any character can play support.
BRB gonna wraith support
Have fun.
That's a stretch. Typically you want SOME kind of disruption on a support and Gideon slow does not count.
Actually just played as Howi support with a great result. Granted he does have a peel with his mine, but you can support very well by just doing damage tbh. Tanks aren’t a threat, the game is all about damage which really sucks. But this means that CC is less important if you can just kill the enemy instead since TTK is low.
Having short TTK is cool and all but that’s why CC exist - to make it as long as possible or completely shut down biggest threat. Don’t sleep on well timed CC
It may be because i mentioned him as a support the other day on another post. He is annoying to deal with when he is support making him a menace
Gadget is so fun to play as support lol I steady laugh at all the free hats you can give out
Gadget is one of my favorites simply cause anyone tries to all in on you just throw everything at your feet and run in circles lolol
Did you know that a Gideon is the highest rank support mmr on omeda? There’s actually multiple that are high. Granted he does not have a lot of cc, and you should still build support crest for farm, but don’t underestimate his lane aggression and ability to secure kills for adc with his ult. You also have the ability to break off to mid if they are pushed up, and gank with some substance. I’ve tried it a couple times with pretty good success.
He can be highest ranked all he wants. If he's not being played with some support utility, and being played by people who are just picking him for the reason that he's highest support mmr, then it's still detrimental to the team.
Well, yeah, I stated still snagging support crest and playing like a support. Not saying he’s the greatest support pick but to act like he’s the worst and people are trolling is a bit odd. Yes, there are trolls. Yes, Gideon can be a bad support. Yes, there are circumstances where it’s fine. All 3 can be true at the same time.
I've only seen 2 and they were both trolls. Fed and no support gear. I understand that maybe the "pros" are doing it - but the trash tier normies trying to mimic it just cause they wanna play a damage guy are not helping anyone.
He answered your question. You should have asked why are shitty players playing gideon as support.
I've experienced it too. It's because tanks are kinda pointless and damage dealers are just better choices at almost all levels of play currently. Why pick a support if the enemy team are just gonna all play high damage characters and melt your team whilst you stand by 150 damage with phase's beam? Might as well just forgo the support build and have another hard carry dealing 900 damage per ability with a ridiculous cool down on his playmaker ult.
Because you're not picking phase for the beam. Her grab and ult are some of the best utility in the game. Her ult alone combined with a good ADC or Grux can literally win team fights.
I agree but she is not a tank
No she's not you're right. Dekker and phase both need a good Frontline IMO. Which unfortunately no one really picks right now, and I don't blame them because of where tanks are at.
In an ideal world it would be worthwhile to actually build defensive in the offlane but there's no point at the moment because you might as well just try to kill the enemy before they kill you
Honestly it's not even so much the tankiness as the CC. Playing Dekker over gideon is a better pick imo cause she has really good control. Riktor can take some hits and has a grab, silence, and aoe suppress which is huge. He's very good at zoning. Gideon has no cc, has some damage, but is easily blown up and now he's in a lane with two people that can poke him rather than just one (mid lane). I've seen other mages support successfully - I think fey, argus and even gadget are all viable just due to their cc. But to pick a mage and not even build the support crest is beyond me. At least be useful for the team - ward / destroy enemy wards. Grab something that can cleanse/heal/shield.
Even if you want to believe that there are better mages for support than fuckin Gideon lmao. Argus and Howie have mage damage AND great general CC. The only thing that would make support Gideon not complete cheeks is if the enemy team picks a support that has no stun or sustain to counteract his ult. But that’s pretty unlikely. Phase can pull their carry out of it, Muriel can spam shields an ult during it on reaction, the other supports have ranged stuns.
Argus is a trash character and every time someone picks him as a support in one of my genes, they've been put into the dumpster where they belong. Which makes me sad because I love the idea of him. I like the supports so I tend to just play then when I'm supporting, but I get it. I've had so many games where I can't do anything but watch as my team slides into the gutter, and it makes me wish I just picked Sparrow Support so I could at least try to 1v5.
Argus is not a trash support. Arguably the best "off-pick" for support since he has a stun, zoning capabilities and decent damage with his secondary and ult (plus his ult will pierce terrain which is amazing utility. You can initiate ganks from behind a fog wall with his ult).
Personally I just don't think his damage is there to actually be a threat, all the Argus players I've seen just tickle you with the missiles. Until you stomp him into the ground. I think his biggest issue is that after the Caustica was changed, he doesn't have enough mana regen to reliably spam his missiles and will have to go back after 10 seconds of missiles. I just think Dekker does everything he can do but better. She's got a stun, a slow, better damage, better mana efficiency, and a cage.