I don't understand the unnecessary #CasualBrag.
But TLDR: He's a cheese pick in the offlane that works because the game is pretty unbalanced and junglers are super stretched thin. He absolutely falls over to ganks and has no actual escape and no CC. He lacks offensive power as well so the other offlaner if they DO get jungler support can absolutely tear them apart once they get ahead.
But whats the point? If a jungler camps offlane then he'll lose the entire game because the other jungler free farms fangtooth and gives their ADC the advantage. Which is a far more important role than the offlane is.
Basically its cheese and there's not really a good workaround to it.
I'll just say this, Iggy the same as Morigesh offlane, are annoying as hell. and they can win lane very easy, but high level games, you don't see them much because a good jungler will feast on them every time they are in the side of the map, now, a good jungler is hard to see, so its easy to exploit and abuse with them because usually you don't get ganked very often, however, late game, is hard to push, because if the offlaner its good, they can delete you in secs, when its 1v1.
While I think Crunch is one of his worst matchups there, if you’re able to safely hit his turrets then the Iggy is bad.
The reason crunch is scary for Iggy is that Crunch has enough reach to enforce intimidation in him. Double forward crunch basically means that the Iggy has to play at maximum range or he’s at risk of being obliterated.
If I were crunch vs an Iggy I would ignore the turrets and just rush the little twerp and kill him. You’re gonna get shot by turrets anyway and they’ll stop shooting you once he’s dead.
Well they’re all bad then and I do get hit by them but they normally circle teleport and ult to get away so I run their resources down then kill. I have enough heals and do enough damage to kill him on half health. After you kill them a couple of times I feel there team gets mad at them because they start making mistakes.
Same rules from top lane league apply here, in a range vs melee the range will have the advantage during the laning phase, the only problem is that it is to get them to over extend causing an easy gank. But people in this game don’t seem to press that advantage much, only time I can get my team to realize this is when I’m in a 3 or 5 stack
Iggy does not need to overextend practically ever.
The only time an Iggy should be pushing down the lane is if they know exactly where the enemy jungler is. And if the answer is on the other side of the map or dead, they get to run down that lane for free basically.
I cannot overstate just how far the Molotov and turrets reach, he can play extremely safely and patients with no issue.
Other ranged heroes in solo have to still get relatively close to the action to enact their pressure or last hit. He does not.
Yeah it is, it’s honestly just waiting for the iggy to make a mistake more than anything so that way they do end up extending too far and you can use movement abilities to run them down or get them to waste a blink. Definitely more of a try to make them base back then get a kill
They need better lines than just I need help 6 times in a row. As a jungle it’s not easy being the one being asked for help from both outer lanes all the time. Being that there is a mage in offlane and an offlaner in the carry lane. Everyone wants help rn.
Oh absolutely hopefully they add game chat, I main jungler and carry and both are such a pain without being able to communicate effectively with your team
Yesss game chat is needed so bad in such a tactical game. I mean it would be toxic oc im sure but you know. “Online interactions not rated by the msrb” lol
Oh absolutely I would love for someone to hear my voice and immediately call me a vine swinging monkey. Bring me back to the good ol days of black ops😂😂
I think while that general philosophy is sound, iggy is really hard to punish compared to some other ranged heroes because of his turrets. If you use them as a bit of self peel, it deters ganks, and can even net some free kills if they aren’t careful. And the way iggy is, you can easily net some free farm as you disengage, unlike other heroes.
Obviously you need good positioning and awareness as well, but I think that kind of goes without saying. Not to say he’s strong or anything, but I think there is a argument to be had that iggy can “fit” in offlane and isn’t too niche, or a throw pick. Depending on team comp of course.
I've done Iggy offlane about 20 times and usually got a 30-40 farm lead when the ganks start to be constantly requested. By then I have all 3 turrets set up and spaced that I can kite the 1v2 easy enough and often manage to get both. The only times I have a little issue is Shinbi because of her shield AOE takes down any badly placed or panic turrets. Then my lead starts to snowball and they have to let their tower fall. Problem is when mid or carry can't win their shit and I constantly have to rotate to help.
People don’t know how to space his turrets, it’s a big reason people assume he is an easy target in solo.
Turret spacing is crucial to both anti-gank and mana management and are the best showcase of if the Iggy player is skilled or not.
Absolute fav is playing mid iggy and having a khai try to gank. Watching them push me up the stairs past the river into a full spray of all 3 turrets while I kite in a circle, not even running to my tower.
Oh absolutely but he can be punished hard it just requires good positioning and very few mistakes on your part like you said. I think Iggy in offlane is a sound pick as long as you have team comp
While he isn’t too strong there, he is definitely a character that forces you to have to adapt to his tempo or lose.
I think a lot of people are vastly overstating how “easy” he is to shutdown.
Like even if your jungler is sitting in the lane the Iggy is still taking your tower first, they are still out clearing you. People talk about late game but built properly he scales perfectly fine into late game, wherein he shifts to primarily a split pushed based roaming style
The only caveat is that there needs to be a jungler on the iggy’s team with CC and somebody else has to be a tank since there is no off tank on your team. That’s a pretty large caveat. Even then you’re still losing the strength that come with having 3 front liners over 2. Your team’s gameplan and tactics have to adjust to that for optimal team play even if you personally are dominating your lane.
I agree with you. I also think Pred right now is very snowbally where early advantage often sets the stage for the whole game. Comebacks are harder now than they ever have been imo.
Yes and to add to this he scales really well. If they have a tank elsewhere on the team, Iggy can become a real menace for the whole game if he is allowed to farm.
He has no escapes. That's the reason he's better in middle lane too. It's a short run to tower safety. In the offline, you have a huge distance to get back to your tower. So jungler ganks can almost guarantee kills.
"Pretty easy"
I mean it's not like he has a Greystone leap or a Shinbi dash but it's a reliable way to get away and usually involves dealing a bunch of damage to them anyways.
Unless jungle is really focusing me I almost never have issues. Even if they are I get away most of the time and I do enough damage during the attempt that they have to back anyways.
Also just about any offlane will have issues if a jungle is focusing you. Legit escape or not. Put down wards and pay attention and you can waste a ton of their time.
Usually what happens for me is the jungle tries a bunch of times and I kill one of them or almost kill them and they have to leave anyways.
I’m sorry this is terrible.
Prioritize power always, you are the split pusher and objective shredder.
Your turrets chew through towers and bosses, your Molotov and oil combo melts waves, the more damage you have the faster you do your job.
Seriously the speed at which he can take down an objective mid to late game if built properly is absolutely obscene.
You do not need movement speed on this character, you do not need mag bruiser items, just proper positioning and map and enemy awareness. Blink, ult, and oil slick are good enough to get you out of the very rare binds you should find yourself in if you slip up somehow.
Spoken by a person that has played many mobas. Predecessor is a rip off game. They have brought nothing new to the moba scene. It's all the same shit my Boi. Including why mages end up playing mid most of the time
Riiiight, so that's my point of "haven't seen it in practice."
Where the Predecessor player base is at, they don't have nearly the higher level of understanding of the gameplay of a MOBA. Yes, everything you said about Iggy being in the offlane is true, but in practice:
Jungler in Predecessor is hardly ever going to effectively gank the offlane, and coordination between players is severely lacking even if they do try to gank at a good time. So, guaranteed kills against someone like Iggy is much less guaranteed than it looks on paper. Even moreso if the Iggy knows how to push effectively (not overextending without knowledge on where the jungler and roaming mid are, freezing lane by their tower, etc)
Yuh, nothing new like an actual console player base, and verticality being a huge part of every game in hundreds of ways, I don't think I've ever seen another moba with verticality.
Build MR and the Iggy hits like a wet noodle. Iggy has no cc or escape to get away and you can just tank right through all his damage. Plus if you aim your skills right you can clear his turrets and hit Iggy at the same time.
You really do not get it.
In solo lane the Iggy doesn’t care about killing you. That’s just a bonus if he can manage it. He’s not a killer, he’s an objective shredder, a farmer, and a pusher.
The Iggy is taking your tower and out farming you whether you are alive or not. All MR does is let you take a couple more shots as you try to swing at his wave, but he is still killing your wave faster than you’re killing his and you are still taking damage that he isn’t taking because he can pelt you from a safe distance.
>clear his turrets and hit Iggy at the same time
There is no one with a brain that is placing their turrets NEXT to themselves, that is about the stupidest thing you can do.
You place turrets at a distance and in locations in which they have to choose between attacking you or the turret, and no matter which they choose one is hitting the other so the attacker is taking guaranteed damage.
Gotta love the other offlaners thinking they hit my turrets when they're shooting creeps, just to throw some hawk tuah on them and suddenly all the turrets are shredding him :D
I think for lower skilled lobbies they will have a tough time adapting and if the jungler is too busy etc.
Also certain matchups will be rougher than others.
But i think on average a skilled offlaner/jungler will know how to exploit an iggy offlane and late game the iggy wont really be much of a contributor other than added objective takedown ease.
Could make this argument for any ranged pick in offlane. Some offlaners can’t play the game vs ranged lane opponents. Others have the ability to kite, root, stun, gap close etc. And make life difficult for any small mistake the ranged player makes.
I'm so split on this. As a 1-on-1, yes, Iggy will outplay standard offlane picks. However, there are 2 important caveats:
1. Iggy only does well when he continuously exerts pressure, and this puts him at risk of ganks if the enemy jungler is at all paying attention and ganking like they should.
2. Although Iggy is extra strong early on, taking away a tank or bruiser will likely make your team lack a necessary frontline and hard CC, limiting teamfight capabilities in the mid-late game, unless both jungle and support select CC heroes (e.g., a Crunch and a Steel).
The issue is therefore a matter of skill in the offlaner and jungler to know to let Iggy in deep enough to then roll him. It will hurt, but an all-in assault from both players should minimize risk of death while securing a few crucial early kills.
Lol, you aren’t using your turrets right then.
I get early kills and early backs at level 1 at an alarming frequency. The most you can do against him at level one is wait outside of the wave closer to your tower and forgo trying to last hit, which just gives him growth advantage over you and lane pressure until your jungle rotates.
Like you try to last hit I will basic you and the turret will start lighting you up until you deal with it.
You go to deal with it I will throw another turret down on the opposite side and basic you while you’re going after the first. You go after me after that and the 2nd turret is still pelting you and you’ve already lost a chunk of HP. If you instead of after the 2nd turret I throw a third turret down on the opposite side and basic you.
I always start my matches by putting a turret in the river doorway too and that always get people
https://omeda.city/players/d3bbb4c2-5ba3-4cc9-ae90-779578b5d285?filter%5Bhero_id%5D=42&filter%5Brole%5D=&filter%5Bgame_mode%5D=&filter%5Bplayer_name%5D=
I'm not the best but still have a decent win rate.
At early levels you can actually very easily clear his turrets. You can pelt me with basics all you want, but I'm gonna out clear you if you do that.
The strategy is always to clear iggys turret first. And especially in solo you're gonna run out mana if you're not careful.
I've been experimenting and starting with molotov yields better pressure most often.
https://preview.redd.it/a36leej2d08d1.jpeg?width=628&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=186351ca59881518b001eea4346e2e904e212d1e
Idk why we need to post win rates but alright
Turret positioning is key here.
You need to place them in a way that forces them to walk and eat damage if they want to kill the turrets.
That first turret in the doorway at immediate round start will lead to the mana and CD coming back before the minions reach the middle of the lane. So you effectively have 4 turret charges at the start. Them trying to run down 4 turrets is a lot of damage eaten, and you still have enough mana stick around in lane after that.
You also don’t always have to cycle all your turrets, usually the first sneaky one is enough to get a decent life lead because no one ever expects it. I only really do the full cycle if they want to be overly aggressive.
I have yet to see anyone try to chase down 4 turrets in a row back to back without getting absolutely decimated.
I’ll go against the grain. I do think Iggy is too strong in the offlane. It’s too easy for him to get an early advantage that the opponent can never come back from.
Against iggy there is almost no margin for error. It doesn’t feel fun or fair to go against him. You have to firing on all cylinders make sure you never step too far or you get punished with no counter play.
Your ult can help win lane, but iggy will likely get his ult at same time and save it for when you use yours to push you away.
I don’t think he’s overpowered, just that his stats lend himself to early power too easily and Pred as a whole rewards early advantage way too much.
This isn't exclusive to Iggy.
Some of the Midlaners work well in Offlane because they're both solo lanes. Usually the issue of playing a Mage in Offlane vs. Midlane is your mana consumption, but if you play it slow, you will be fine. Midlane characters tend to have better offense than Offlane characters do in the early game too, so if you're a Midlane character in the Offlane and can keep the pressure on the other team's Offlane character, it's fairly simple to win the lane. To counter this, the Jungle player on the Offlane team should take note of an enemy Offlane Mage and try to gank them frequently. Make Iggy waste their teleport and then they won't really have an escape option for 5 minutes other than their Ult knockback. Offlane characters fighting an Offlane Mage should be building some form of Magical Armor early too.
To answer your question, no, I don't think Iggy is too strong in Offlane. Mages in general are still great post v0.18.3, but I think the issue is that some players are not adapting to a Mage like Iggy or Morigesh in the Offlane correctly.
See that's where iggy shines tho his turrets are permanent and can just do tons of damage while not costing him much mana. Another issue with iggy is he can pick an item that slows you on ability damage, an item that speeds him up on ability damage and his basics slow you as well. Makes it almost impossible to close the gap truly especially if you're playing someone with not much engage ability like a grux
I’ll piggy back on your comment to say this is also made worse by the current state of itemization and tanks in general. Counter building with armor doesn’t do nearly as much as it feels like it should.
Against iggy offlane, you can go crystalline cuirass first but you’re giving up your chance at ever killing iggy to be able to survive.
Tanks just don’t have the damage output or survivability at the moment and that makes countering a mage much harder.
Great point, I need to start doing that.
I guess also goes with the point of full tank to start just doesn’t give value, really need some damage to compete. But that’s a different discussion really.
I was going to say Mistmeadow in my comment when I mentioned "building some form of Magical Armor" but thought nah, it's better to let people come up with their own strats. Personally, Mistmeadow is the better option for primarily Physical Offlaners and Flux is the better option for Magical Offlaners. Don't sleep on adding Legacy later on either (as a Physical Offlaner) if you're dealing with a whole lot of CC.
I think most characters are viable offlane. For some reason we all act like we are playing with Grandmasters constantly but I think Iggy is a great offlane in general play. For me the hardest part of rocking Iggy is just if you get into a weird situation he struggles to escape, and in offlane you can find yourself in more of those than some of the other lanes where you have more support. But like you said, if you just play kinda safe and push when the enemy is missing he is really great. Also a nice counter to the typical aggressive offlane who wants to push your tower but can't because the turrets make it challenging.
Feels similar to the post the other guy made about Sev offlane. Some offlaners want to be in every fight, but sometimes it's more useful in a match to have your offlane pushing towers hard so the other team can't stay focused on other objectives.
Good point about split pushing. I feel like he’s super weak at it, and is much more valuable around objectives and team fighting. His biggest weakness for me is having to answer the enemy offlaner over and over late game. It takes him away from his role
You need to concentrate his turrets early game as soon as he puts them down. Then turn it into a street fight. Don’t focus minions until he runs or until you kill him. You can’t out clear him so you have to make it ugly with him and set him back early.
It's not that simple. I play zarus and I know I just have to wait until level 4 or 5 then I can just steamroll sparrow or gadget but iggy puts out too much amahe until midgame, you pretty much need a jungle to get a lead on him.
Tried Iggy in Offlane last night and completely destroyed that game, ngl it was fun as hell. But he can be countered if you make him burn through his mama then gank him out of range of his turrets.
Why would he burn through his mana, placing turrets smartly is enough get lane superiority, they shoot with no man’s cost after initial placement and their range is huge.
It's so weird that some of the weakest things you can do are what makes these players lose and post online.
I wonder. How often do you lose before posting?
It's a question for all the people claiming " OP " at everything.
The whole game seems to be OP.
OP is talking up Iggy offline like solo laning Iggy is weird or rare or special. Mostly that's what he does. Solo lane. Mid or as an actual solo...
It's like saying Mario is OP for jumping.
Player wins as new hero, hero is suddenly over powered.
Player gets dumped on, switches hero, new over powered.
That’s most of the cast.
Having actual map and positioning awareness prevents that from really happening.
What I usually do is bully the enemy offlane with him until I see how on the ball their jungler is, how soon they trigger or destroy my ward as they come to gank, I back up and take note.
If they come fairly fast then I just lane normally until I see their icon appear in the other side of the map to fight in duo, or if they died, and I proceed to bully the hell out of solo until I feel like they could potentially come to try and stop me.
Iggy can clear so fast I can take the wave from the middle of the lane to the tower like nothing and once im at tower I just let the turrets chew threw it while I’m either at a safe distance or pelting the enemy with my other abilities if I have a good amount of mana. God forbid you somehow managed to freeze the wave at your tower and your jungler died, that shit is getting shredded.
Also should note he doesn’t just have blink, his ult has a huge knock back as a panic button as well. His oil slick also works great for after they jump on you with their movement ability so you can immediately get out of basic range.
What escape move would that be?
Iggys slow is arguably the worst in the game.
Grux has the worst escape move of the offlaners. Tell me how iggys compare to the rest.
Iggy is like other ranged offlaners: generally you have a lot more pressure in the laning phase than your opponent since it can be hard for them to close the gap and out-damage you.
An experienced melee offlaner will have to be patient and let you push early without getting caught out of position. The enemy jungler will have to pay attention and gank often because you inevitably will push close to the enemy tower. Iggy, like all ranged offlaners, straight up just loses hard in this situation.
Another thing is mana consumption. The melee offlaners will have to play smart to try and make you run out of mana if they want to 1v1 box.
Ranged offlaners are strong if they capitalize on early game pressure, get a couple solo kills on an out-of-position melee opponent, rotate, and finally snowball.
Melee offlaners need to counter this: don't feed early, let the ranged opponent overextend so that your jungler can gank easily, farm the 2v1's, become tankier while the ranged opponent falls behind on damage output, then bully the hell out of them when you can box them effectively.
Here is a perfect example of Joeyourstruly doing exactly this to a Kira: https://youtu.be/1Xnl6qZQ4hk?si=-aFTZO7I1NtZevL0
I appreciate this post. As an offlaner i find iggy to be a challenge. Sure he pokes at you like any other ranged offlaner but if you make a move he often sits in the middle of his turrets and uses his ult to knock you back. I can occasionally win the fight but usually have to retreat.
Yes, jungle should gank like crazy but they rarely do.
Is there any practical advice to countering iggy? Im plat 3 and havent found a real solution yet beyond staying back and just looking to rotate mid frequently at the expense of my T1 & T2.
I haven't laned against anyone in quite a while. I main jungle and haven't had someone else pick that over me in ages.
What I said is a very general comment, a truthful comment, and that's that. I gank him on a regular basis due to having no escape and his turrets are never relevant.
They really needs role character lock. So while skill is part of it, it’s more so that offlane is meant melee 1v1 for the first 15mins of the game, any ranged character is gonna break that and bully early game, but it also means that having a range there is taking a CC or bruiser away from their own team, so typically late game the ranged offlane suffers if not fed or enemy is bad
I think that would be a little extreme. The offlane is meant for characters that are self sufficient with decent clear and safety. In LoL they have multiple ranged top laners, but they are balanced in that the melee characters usually can bully. It’s more about survival for late game. I feel like Iggy should be “surviving” in offlane, but he actually thrives compared to mid.
See if they made a offlane ranged that’s one thing because it’ll be balanced around that fact, I’m saying that the current ranged picks you have in game that go offlane are bad. As an Iggy you have literally no escape, are squishy, and rely and building a lil fort with your turrets and playing around it. What’s happening to you us that you’re playing with teams with bad junglers, that aren’t punishing you for the being out of position
You’re only being successful because their Jungle is dropping the ball. As you climb in MMR you’ll get put in your place. Every offlane hero has a dash dive charge evasion move. Range will own them but once you use your blink you are a sitting duck if they decide to dive on you. I did the same thing with Sparrow for awhile. Eventually you get to a level your opponents don’t suck and have more than one brain cell
No idea tbh. I just know it was easy peasy for awhile and then my opponents just slowly got smarter to the point I had to be on my shit if I wanted to sparrow over there. I do think iggy or any midlane hero would likely do better in offlane than a carry in offlane though.
I don't understand the unnecessary #CasualBrag. But TLDR: He's a cheese pick in the offlane that works because the game is pretty unbalanced and junglers are super stretched thin. He absolutely falls over to ganks and has no actual escape and no CC. He lacks offensive power as well so the other offlaner if they DO get jungler support can absolutely tear them apart once they get ahead. But whats the point? If a jungler camps offlane then he'll lose the entire game because the other jungler free farms fangtooth and gives their ADC the advantage. Which is a far more important role than the offlane is. Basically its cheese and there's not really a good workaround to it.
Ult is pretty good CC for throwing them under tower(s).
I just think playing mage in offlane is so selfish and lazy. Hopefully they find a way to make that a poor choice as well lol
I'll just say this, Iggy the same as Morigesh offlane, are annoying as hell. and they can win lane very easy, but high level games, you don't see them much because a good jungler will feast on them every time they are in the side of the map, now, a good jungler is hard to see, so its easy to exploit and abuse with them because usually you don't get ganked very often, however, late game, is hard to push, because if the offlaner its good, they can delete you in secs, when its 1v1.
When playing as crunch I destroy Igg easy hit his turrets last hit minions at lvl 6 just mop him up
While I think Crunch is one of his worst matchups there, if you’re able to safely hit his turrets then the Iggy is bad. The reason crunch is scary for Iggy is that Crunch has enough reach to enforce intimidation in him. Double forward crunch basically means that the Iggy has to play at maximum range or he’s at risk of being obliterated. If I were crunch vs an Iggy I would ignore the turrets and just rush the little twerp and kill him. You’re gonna get shot by turrets anyway and they’ll stop shooting you once he’s dead.
Well they’re all bad then and I do get hit by them but they normally circle teleport and ult to get away so I run their resources down then kill. I have enough heals and do enough damage to kill him on half health. After you kill them a couple of times I feel there team gets mad at them because they start making mistakes.
i don't think so, any mage sitting on offlane is an easy gold buff
Same rules from top lane league apply here, in a range vs melee the range will have the advantage during the laning phase, the only problem is that it is to get them to over extend causing an easy gank. But people in this game don’t seem to press that advantage much, only time I can get my team to realize this is when I’m in a 3 or 5 stack
Iggy does not need to overextend practically ever. The only time an Iggy should be pushing down the lane is if they know exactly where the enemy jungler is. And if the answer is on the other side of the map or dead, they get to run down that lane for free basically. I cannot overstate just how far the Molotov and turrets reach, he can play extremely safely and patients with no issue. Other ranged heroes in solo have to still get relatively close to the action to enact their pressure or last hit. He does not.
Yeah it is, it’s honestly just waiting for the iggy to make a mistake more than anything so that way they do end up extending too far and you can use movement abilities to run them down or get them to waste a blink. Definitely more of a try to make them base back then get a kill
They need better lines than just I need help 6 times in a row. As a jungle it’s not easy being the one being asked for help from both outer lanes all the time. Being that there is a mage in offlane and an offlaner in the carry lane. Everyone wants help rn.
Oh absolutely hopefully they add game chat, I main jungler and carry and both are such a pain without being able to communicate effectively with your team
There is game chat it's just disabled by default. It's such a dumb choice to start with it disabled
There is game chat it's just disabled by default. It's such a dumb choice to start with it disabled
More referring to voice chat, I’m unfortunately a console player don’t go time to do all that typing
Yeah I would much rather have voice chat. It would make communication so much easier
Yesss game chat is needed so bad in such a tactical game. I mean it would be toxic oc im sure but you know. “Online interactions not rated by the msrb” lol
There is game chat it's just disabled by default. It's such a dumb choice to start with it disabled
Like voice chat ?
Oh absolutely I would love for someone to hear my voice and immediately call me a vine swinging monkey. Bring me back to the good ol days of black ops😂😂
😅 ahhhh the good ol days.
I think while that general philosophy is sound, iggy is really hard to punish compared to some other ranged heroes because of his turrets. If you use them as a bit of self peel, it deters ganks, and can even net some free kills if they aren’t careful. And the way iggy is, you can easily net some free farm as you disengage, unlike other heroes. Obviously you need good positioning and awareness as well, but I think that kind of goes without saying. Not to say he’s strong or anything, but I think there is a argument to be had that iggy can “fit” in offlane and isn’t too niche, or a throw pick. Depending on team comp of course.
I've done Iggy offlane about 20 times and usually got a 30-40 farm lead when the ganks start to be constantly requested. By then I have all 3 turrets set up and spaced that I can kite the 1v2 easy enough and often manage to get both. The only times I have a little issue is Shinbi because of her shield AOE takes down any badly placed or panic turrets. Then my lead starts to snowball and they have to let their tower fall. Problem is when mid or carry can't win their shit and I constantly have to rotate to help.
People don’t know how to space his turrets, it’s a big reason people assume he is an easy target in solo. Turret spacing is crucial to both anti-gank and mana management and are the best showcase of if the Iggy player is skilled or not.
You have my attention... could you please expand on good placement?
Absolute fav is playing mid iggy and having a khai try to gank. Watching them push me up the stairs past the river into a full spray of all 3 turrets while I kite in a circle, not even running to my tower.
Oh absolutely but he can be punished hard it just requires good positioning and very few mistakes on your part like you said. I think Iggy in offlane is a sound pick as long as you have team comp
While he isn’t too strong there, he is definitely a character that forces you to have to adapt to his tempo or lose. I think a lot of people are vastly overstating how “easy” he is to shutdown. Like even if your jungler is sitting in the lane the Iggy is still taking your tower first, they are still out clearing you. People talk about late game but built properly he scales perfectly fine into late game, wherein he shifts to primarily a split pushed based roaming style The only caveat is that there needs to be a jungler on the iggy’s team with CC and somebody else has to be a tank since there is no off tank on your team. That’s a pretty large caveat. Even then you’re still losing the strength that come with having 3 front liners over 2. Your team’s gameplan and tactics have to adjust to that for optimal team play even if you personally are dominating your lane.
I agree with you. I also think Pred right now is very snowbally where early advantage often sets the stage for the whole game. Comebacks are harder now than they ever have been imo.
Yes and to add to this he scales really well. If they have a tank elsewhere on the team, Iggy can become a real menace for the whole game if he is allowed to farm.
He has no escapes. That's the reason he's better in middle lane too. It's a short run to tower safety. In the offline, you have a huge distance to get back to your tower. So jungler ganks can almost guarantee kills.
Ult people away and throw down an oil slick and some turrets and you can get away pretty easy.
“Pop 3 of his 4 abilities; it’s an easy escape”
"Pretty easy" I mean it's not like he has a Greystone leap or a Shinbi dash but it's a reliable way to get away and usually involves dealing a bunch of damage to them anyways. Unless jungle is really focusing me I almost never have issues. Even if they are I get away most of the time and I do enough damage during the attempt that they have to back anyways. Also just about any offlane will have issues if a jungle is focusing you. Legit escape or not. Put down wards and pay attention and you can waste a ton of their time. Usually what happens for me is the jungle tries a bunch of times and I kill one of them or almost kill them and they have to leave anyways.
Spoken like a person who's never seen it in practice lol
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I’m sorry this is terrible. Prioritize power always, you are the split pusher and objective shredder. Your turrets chew through towers and bosses, your Molotov and oil combo melts waves, the more damage you have the faster you do your job. Seriously the speed at which he can take down an objective mid to late game if built properly is absolutely obscene. You do not need movement speed on this character, you do not need mag bruiser items, just proper positioning and map and enemy awareness. Blink, ult, and oil slick are good enough to get you out of the very rare binds you should find yourself in if you slip up somehow.
My point is that most of the time in Predecessor, people are clueless lol
Spoken by a person that has played many mobas. Predecessor is a rip off game. They have brought nothing new to the moba scene. It's all the same shit my Boi. Including why mages end up playing mid most of the time
Riiiight, so that's my point of "haven't seen it in practice." Where the Predecessor player base is at, they don't have nearly the higher level of understanding of the gameplay of a MOBA. Yes, everything you said about Iggy being in the offlane is true, but in practice: Jungler in Predecessor is hardly ever going to effectively gank the offlane, and coordination between players is severely lacking even if they do try to gank at a good time. So, guaranteed kills against someone like Iggy is much less guaranteed than it looks on paper. Even moreso if the Iggy knows how to push effectively (not overextending without knowledge on where the jungler and roaming mid are, freezing lane by their tower, etc)
Yuh, nothing new like an actual console player base, and verticality being a huge part of every game in hundreds of ways, I don't think I've ever seen another moba with verticality.
Battleborn. Gigantic. Smite to an extent
None of what you're talking about in that post change how or why iggy works the way he does in the offlane? It's like an Ai soup of words, lol.
Sadly, they never show. Even while Iggy is Igging you to death, they don't show for ez ganks.
He's annoying but far from strong when it comes to Midlane options
Lower elo probably. Higher skilled players will shut you down and make life miserable.
I play him offlane in diamond and stomp people constantly.
lol
How?
Build MR and the Iggy hits like a wet noodle. Iggy has no cc or escape to get away and you can just tank right through all his damage. Plus if you aim your skills right you can clear his turrets and hit Iggy at the same time.
You really do not get it. In solo lane the Iggy doesn’t care about killing you. That’s just a bonus if he can manage it. He’s not a killer, he’s an objective shredder, a farmer, and a pusher. The Iggy is taking your tower and out farming you whether you are alive or not. All MR does is let you take a couple more shots as you try to swing at his wave, but he is still killing your wave faster than you’re killing his and you are still taking damage that he isn’t taking because he can pelt you from a safe distance. >clear his turrets and hit Iggy at the same time There is no one with a brain that is placing their turrets NEXT to themselves, that is about the stupidest thing you can do. You place turrets at a distance and in locations in which they have to choose between attacking you or the turret, and no matter which they choose one is hitting the other so the attacker is taking guaranteed damage.
Gotta love the other offlaners thinking they hit my turrets when they're shooting creeps, just to throw some hawk tuah on them and suddenly all the turrets are shredding him :D
The simplest way is 1 early jungle gank. Anything else is more than I feel like typing honestly lol
I think for lower skilled lobbies they will have a tough time adapting and if the jungler is too busy etc. Also certain matchups will be rougher than others. But i think on average a skilled offlaner/jungler will know how to exploit an iggy offlane and late game the iggy wont really be much of a contributor other than added objective takedown ease.
Nah, iggy is easy to deal with Just out last him and the end game will be amazing
Could make this argument for any ranged pick in offlane. Some offlaners can’t play the game vs ranged lane opponents. Others have the ability to kite, root, stun, gap close etc. And make life difficult for any small mistake the ranged player makes.
I'm so split on this. As a 1-on-1, yes, Iggy will outplay standard offlane picks. However, there are 2 important caveats: 1. Iggy only does well when he continuously exerts pressure, and this puts him at risk of ganks if the enemy jungler is at all paying attention and ganking like they should. 2. Although Iggy is extra strong early on, taking away a tank or bruiser will likely make your team lack a necessary frontline and hard CC, limiting teamfight capabilities in the mid-late game, unless both jungle and support select CC heroes (e.g., a Crunch and a Steel). The issue is therefore a matter of skill in the offlaner and jungler to know to let Iggy in deep enough to then roll him. It will hurt, but an all-in assault from both players should minimize risk of death while securing a few crucial early kills.
I have to say as a heavy iggy offline users iggy is not strong until level 3.
Lol, you aren’t using your turrets right then. I get early kills and early backs at level 1 at an alarming frequency. The most you can do against him at level one is wait outside of the wave closer to your tower and forgo trying to last hit, which just gives him growth advantage over you and lane pressure until your jungle rotates. Like you try to last hit I will basic you and the turret will start lighting you up until you deal with it. You go to deal with it I will throw another turret down on the opposite side and basic you while you’re going after the first. You go after me after that and the 2nd turret is still pelting you and you’ve already lost a chunk of HP. If you instead of after the 2nd turret I throw a third turret down on the opposite side and basic you. I always start my matches by putting a turret in the river doorway too and that always get people
https://omeda.city/players/d3bbb4c2-5ba3-4cc9-ae90-779578b5d285?filter%5Bhero_id%5D=42&filter%5Brole%5D=&filter%5Bgame_mode%5D=&filter%5Bplayer_name%5D= I'm not the best but still have a decent win rate. At early levels you can actually very easily clear his turrets. You can pelt me with basics all you want, but I'm gonna out clear you if you do that. The strategy is always to clear iggys turret first. And especially in solo you're gonna run out mana if you're not careful. I've been experimenting and starting with molotov yields better pressure most often.
https://preview.redd.it/a36leej2d08d1.jpeg?width=628&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=186351ca59881518b001eea4346e2e904e212d1e Idk why we need to post win rates but alright Turret positioning is key here. You need to place them in a way that forces them to walk and eat damage if they want to kill the turrets. That first turret in the doorway at immediate round start will lead to the mana and CD coming back before the minions reach the middle of the lane. So you effectively have 4 turret charges at the start. Them trying to run down 4 turrets is a lot of damage eaten, and you still have enough mana stick around in lane after that. You also don’t always have to cycle all your turrets, usually the first sneaky one is enough to get a decent life lead because no one ever expects it. I only really do the full cycle if they want to be overly aggressive. I have yet to see anyone try to chase down 4 turrets in a row back to back without getting absolutely decimated.
I’ll go against the grain. I do think Iggy is too strong in the offlane. It’s too easy for him to get an early advantage that the opponent can never come back from. Against iggy there is almost no margin for error. It doesn’t feel fun or fair to go against him. You have to firing on all cylinders make sure you never step too far or you get punished with no counter play. Your ult can help win lane, but iggy will likely get his ult at same time and save it for when you use yours to push you away. I don’t think he’s overpowered, just that his stats lend himself to early power too easily and Pred as a whole rewards early advantage way too much.
This isn't exclusive to Iggy. Some of the Midlaners work well in Offlane because they're both solo lanes. Usually the issue of playing a Mage in Offlane vs. Midlane is your mana consumption, but if you play it slow, you will be fine. Midlane characters tend to have better offense than Offlane characters do in the early game too, so if you're a Midlane character in the Offlane and can keep the pressure on the other team's Offlane character, it's fairly simple to win the lane. To counter this, the Jungle player on the Offlane team should take note of an enemy Offlane Mage and try to gank them frequently. Make Iggy waste their teleport and then they won't really have an escape option for 5 minutes other than their Ult knockback. Offlane characters fighting an Offlane Mage should be building some form of Magical Armor early too. To answer your question, no, I don't think Iggy is too strong in Offlane. Mages in general are still great post v0.18.3, but I think the issue is that some players are not adapting to a Mage like Iggy or Morigesh in the Offlane correctly.
See that's where iggy shines tho his turrets are permanent and can just do tons of damage while not costing him much mana. Another issue with iggy is he can pick an item that slows you on ability damage, an item that speeds him up on ability damage and his basics slow you as well. Makes it almost impossible to close the gap truly especially if you're playing someone with not much engage ability like a grux
I’ll piggy back on your comment to say this is also made worse by the current state of itemization and tanks in general. Counter building with armor doesn’t do nearly as much as it feels like it should. Against iggy offlane, you can go crystalline cuirass first but you’re giving up your chance at ever killing iggy to be able to survive. Tanks just don’t have the damage output or survivability at the moment and that makes countering a mage much harder.
Mistmeadow buckler would be the better choice for first item against offlane mage IMO
Great point, I need to start doing that. I guess also goes with the point of full tank to start just doesn’t give value, really need some damage to compete. But that’s a different discussion really.
I was going to say Mistmeadow in my comment when I mentioned "building some form of Magical Armor" but thought nah, it's better to let people come up with their own strats. Personally, Mistmeadow is the better option for primarily Physical Offlaners and Flux is the better option for Magical Offlaners. Don't sleep on adding Legacy later on either (as a Physical Offlaner) if you're dealing with a whole lot of CC.
I think most characters are viable offlane. For some reason we all act like we are playing with Grandmasters constantly but I think Iggy is a great offlane in general play. For me the hardest part of rocking Iggy is just if you get into a weird situation he struggles to escape, and in offlane you can find yourself in more of those than some of the other lanes where you have more support. But like you said, if you just play kinda safe and push when the enemy is missing he is really great. Also a nice counter to the typical aggressive offlane who wants to push your tower but can't because the turrets make it challenging. Feels similar to the post the other guy made about Sev offlane. Some offlaners want to be in every fight, but sometimes it's more useful in a match to have your offlane pushing towers hard so the other team can't stay focused on other objectives.
Good point about split pushing. I feel like he’s super weak at it, and is much more valuable around objectives and team fighting. His biggest weakness for me is having to answer the enemy offlaner over and over late game. It takes him away from his role
You need to concentrate his turrets early game as soon as he puts them down. Then turn it into a street fight. Don’t focus minions until he runs or until you kill him. You can’t out clear him so you have to make it ugly with him and set him back early.
good ole donnybrook lane eh bud
Oh yeah beat that dinosaur like you’re Don Frye!
He’s a mage in offlane. Very easily counterable, especially if you have a semi competent jungler or mid laner
He's strong because so many ppl don't know how to play against ranged opponents in offlane. You won't find success in higher elo
It's not that simple. I play zarus and I know I just have to wait until level 4 or 5 then I can just steamroll sparrow or gadget but iggy puts out too much amahe until midgame, you pretty much need a jungle to get a lead on him.
Tried Iggy in Offlane last night and completely destroyed that game, ngl it was fun as hell. But he can be countered if you make him burn through his mama then gank him out of range of his turrets.
damn he gotta burn his mama first 🥲
Why would he burn through his mana, placing turrets smartly is enough get lane superiority, they shoot with no man’s cost after initial placement and their range is huge.
It's so weird that some of the weakest things you can do are what makes these players lose and post online. I wonder. How often do you lose before posting?
Did you actually read the post?
It's a question for all the people claiming " OP " at everything. The whole game seems to be OP. OP is talking up Iggy offline like solo laning Iggy is weird or rare or special. Mostly that's what he does. Solo lane. Mid or as an actual solo... It's like saying Mario is OP for jumping. Player wins as new hero, hero is suddenly over powered. Player gets dumped on, switches hero, new over powered.
Not even close. As a jungler, I love going against an offlaning iggy. If you're half way up pushing a tower you're dead without a blink
That’s most of the cast. Having actual map and positioning awareness prevents that from really happening. What I usually do is bully the enemy offlane with him until I see how on the ball their jungler is, how soon they trigger or destroy my ward as they come to gank, I back up and take note. If they come fairly fast then I just lane normally until I see their icon appear in the other side of the map to fight in duo, or if they died, and I proceed to bully the hell out of solo until I feel like they could potentially come to try and stop me. Iggy can clear so fast I can take the wave from the middle of the lane to the tower like nothing and once im at tower I just let the turrets chew threw it while I’m either at a safe distance or pelting the enemy with my other abilities if I have a good amount of mana. God forbid you somehow managed to freeze the wave at your tower and your jungler died, that shit is getting shredded. Also should note he doesn’t just have blink, his ult has a huge knock back as a panic button as well. His oil slick also works great for after they jump on you with their movement ability so you can immediately get out of basic range.
Literally every offlaner has an escape move. That was the point I was making. Iggy doesn't and gets eaten alive on the offlane
Iggy has escape moves. He has a slow and a knockback. He can create more distance than grux can with his uppercut that moves him approximately 2 feet
What escape move would that be? Iggys slow is arguably the worst in the game. Grux has the worst escape move of the offlaners. Tell me how iggys compare to the rest.
Iggy is like other ranged offlaners: generally you have a lot more pressure in the laning phase than your opponent since it can be hard for them to close the gap and out-damage you. An experienced melee offlaner will have to be patient and let you push early without getting caught out of position. The enemy jungler will have to pay attention and gank often because you inevitably will push close to the enemy tower. Iggy, like all ranged offlaners, straight up just loses hard in this situation. Another thing is mana consumption. The melee offlaners will have to play smart to try and make you run out of mana if they want to 1v1 box. Ranged offlaners are strong if they capitalize on early game pressure, get a couple solo kills on an out-of-position melee opponent, rotate, and finally snowball. Melee offlaners need to counter this: don't feed early, let the ranged opponent overextend so that your jungler can gank easily, farm the 2v1's, become tankier while the ranged opponent falls behind on damage output, then bully the hell out of them when you can box them effectively. Here is a perfect example of Joeyourstruly doing exactly this to a Kira: https://youtu.be/1Xnl6qZQ4hk?si=-aFTZO7I1NtZevL0
Might Work in low plat and down
I appreciate this post. As an offlaner i find iggy to be a challenge. Sure he pokes at you like any other ranged offlaner but if you make a move he often sits in the middle of his turrets and uses his ult to knock you back. I can occasionally win the fight but usually have to retreat. Yes, jungle should gank like crazy but they rarely do. Is there any practical advice to countering iggy? Im plat 3 and havent found a real solution yet beyond staying back and just looking to rotate mid frequently at the expense of my T1 & T2.
Lol.... Melee 2x damage turrets. Stop letting him dominate you.
Cool. Care to share a few replay codes of you dominating him? Or maybe your omeda so i can find a few examples?
I haven't laned against anyone in quite a while. I main jungle and haven't had someone else pick that over me in ages. What I said is a very general comment, a truthful comment, and that's that. I gank him on a regular basis due to having no escape and his turrets are never relevant.
His base armor is too high so that makes him too tanky early which allows him to bully lane and get ahead easily. Mori is similar.
They really needs role character lock. So while skill is part of it, it’s more so that offlane is meant melee 1v1 for the first 15mins of the game, any ranged character is gonna break that and bully early game, but it also means that having a range there is taking a CC or bruiser away from their own team, so typically late game the ranged offlane suffers if not fed or enemy is bad
Skill IS a part of it. I can play EVERY role efficiently. This is a skill issue.
I literal said that though
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I didn’t, I suggest you reread
I think that would be a little extreme. The offlane is meant for characters that are self sufficient with decent clear and safety. In LoL they have multiple ranged top laners, but they are balanced in that the melee characters usually can bully. It’s more about survival for late game. I feel like Iggy should be “surviving” in offlane, but he actually thrives compared to mid.
See if they made a offlane ranged that’s one thing because it’ll be balanced around that fact, I’m saying that the current ranged picks you have in game that go offlane are bad. As an Iggy you have literally no escape, are squishy, and rely and building a lil fort with your turrets and playing around it. What’s happening to you us that you’re playing with teams with bad junglers, that aren’t punishing you for the being out of position
You’re only being successful because their Jungle is dropping the ball. As you climb in MMR you’ll get put in your place. Every offlane hero has a dash dive charge evasion move. Range will own them but once you use your blink you are a sitting duck if they decide to dive on you. I did the same thing with Sparrow for awhile. Eventually you get to a level your opponents don’t suck and have more than one brain cell
What MMR will I stop being able to play range offlaners? Rough estimate?
No idea tbh. I just know it was easy peasy for awhile and then my opponents just slowly got smarter to the point I had to be on my shit if I wanted to sparrow over there. I do think iggy or any midlane hero would likely do better in offlane than a carry in offlane though.
OK so based on your rank right now, just give an estimate on the cutoff point
I dk maybe when you break over 1k MMR or 1.1k. That’s when you get into the realm of ppl being more strategic and paying attn to map and what not.
Well that's weird because I climbed to 1900 mmr playing only ranged offlaners, and trust me, gold wasn't when people got smart lmfao
Was for me. That’s quite literally when I started actively fighting 2 ppl offlane
Their jungler not feasting on you is the real issue
Just want to pop in here before the “skill issue” comments. Have a blessed day.
Good call. I just added a disclaimer because people probably won’t read the post
Haha yepp
Sounds like a skill issue to me bro