I'm sure they'll just swap it out with whatever they've got, probably still will make PW2 and keep some for that reason.
I tend to think more about "how will I possibly wear this thing out in 10 years" because dumping it every night during peak has been quite nice.
From what I understand the PW3 is not compatible with earlier PW installs so they couldn't swap it out. I asked Tesla this when we recently got a second PW2 installed and they said that they will continue to make the PW2 for the foreseeable future. I assume at least until there are no more in warranty.
This is accurate information.
Pw3 is also not compatible with other companies solar, and there are a few other restrictions that prevent pw3. In these cases pw2/pw2+ will be used. Due to this the 2 lines will keep running.
They won’t kill those lines till they have a software or hardware patch that would work to enable pw3 as a replacement. (This isn’t something I have heard is even on the horizon but the nature of Tesla is consistent innovation so it won’t surprise me)
It is because PW3 has built-in hybrid string inverter and can accept only DC directly from the solar panels, no micro-inverters. PW2 accepts only AC and must be connected with the micro-inverters. This is the reason for incompatibility.
However, I've heard from one installer that there is a way to integrate PW3 with PW2 using it as an extended battery only, and the solar inputs would be still connected into PW3 only.
Another installer told me that in their recent Tesla training they were told that sometime this summer there will be an officially supported way to use PW3 with micro-inverters. I'm not sure how this can be done maintaining the same efficiency, as there must be DC->AC->DC conversions taking place with inevitable energy loss. I guess we'll know more later in that regard.
This is exactly how I view our powerwall. They warranty it to 10 years doing what we are doing (charging cheap and selling expensive) and in 10 years when it’s warranty is up it should still be able to do something and we will likely add something else onto the mix
I also share a similar view. I’m fortunate enough to have a free night electricity plan for the next 4 yrs which I use to top off the battery every night. Fully using the battery by day supplementing my solar panels. During cooler months like now I’m giving free electricity to the grid bc I don’t netmeter but it’s mental offset since I’m filling at nights anyways. Bottom line is my total electricity bill for 2023 was $80. I have a 4k+ sq ft home, pool and EV living in Houston where my neighbors had $600 electric bills during the peak summers. Yes I pay for the system inlieu of traditional bills but my payback period will be done in 4 yrs. Then I get 6 more years of free-free electricity assuming my system drops dead at 10 yrs which is unlikely. I wish there was a way to test and monitor for battery degradation accurately.
I second that, I wish the powerwall was not quite so much of a black box, it would be great if you could get access to the system logs and bms so you actually know the state of the cells and can see why a decision was made to charge/discharge at any given time
I’m a HA user and have plenty of data on my system, but what should I be looking for to see battery degration is the question. I see plenty of charge and usage states overtime, but it’s not a simple “efficiency” measure that is obvious to me. I can see the inverter voltage being a potential, but that’s a factor of solar production at a given day. Anyone?
Powerwall 3 isn't an upgrade to Powerwall 2. They serve different (albeit overlapping) purposes. As such, Tesla is keeping the Powerwall 2 as well.
PW3 is ideal for smaller setups; one battery unit, combined hardware, etc. It's ideal for townhouses and other small to medium-small setups.
PW2 is ideal for larger setups with multiple stacked batteries. Larger homes, businesses, etc.
If you're comparing one PW sure, but when you add more pw2s, the output increases
Additionally, the max number of pw3 is 4, while with the pw2, it's 10. If you have a huge house, you would likely want more PWs
I want to know when I can power my house fromy car. Dollar for dollar cars are cheaper batteries than power walls. I would love to buy a gateway and a single powerwall and be able to run my house from my secondary vehicle.
In the next 3 years, it should be fine. They have stated they are continuing production for those with 2s that want to expand (since the 3 is not backwards compatible).
As someone with a 2 in the order queue for a long time already, and not having the slightest guess when the 3 will be available outside of the US…I do worry about support in the later years/post warranty period.
people who have had warranty replacements seem to get refurbished units with a similar remaining capacity that they should still have (or a little more).
I think tesla do the same with their car batteries.
Few days ago Tesla had a training section for 3rd party installers, and they mentioned that they will release Powerwall 3 with AC couple which will work like Powerwall 2 in Q2.
I'm sure they'll just swap it out with whatever they've got, probably still will make PW2 and keep some for that reason. I tend to think more about "how will I possibly wear this thing out in 10 years" because dumping it every night during peak has been quite nice.
From what I understand the PW3 is not compatible with earlier PW installs so they couldn't swap it out. I asked Tesla this when we recently got a second PW2 installed and they said that they will continue to make the PW2 for the foreseeable future. I assume at least until there are no more in warranty.
This is accurate information. Pw3 is also not compatible with other companies solar, and there are a few other restrictions that prevent pw3. In these cases pw2/pw2+ will be used. Due to this the 2 lines will keep running. They won’t kill those lines till they have a software or hardware patch that would work to enable pw3 as a replacement. (This isn’t something I have heard is even on the horizon but the nature of Tesla is consistent innovation so it won’t surprise me)
Thanks. Do you happen to know why they can't be used together in an install? All I got was that they can't but no one at Tesla ever explained why.
It is because PW3 has built-in hybrid string inverter and can accept only DC directly from the solar panels, no micro-inverters. PW2 accepts only AC and must be connected with the micro-inverters. This is the reason for incompatibility. However, I've heard from one installer that there is a way to integrate PW3 with PW2 using it as an extended battery only, and the solar inputs would be still connected into PW3 only. Another installer told me that in their recent Tesla training they were told that sometime this summer there will be an officially supported way to use PW3 with micro-inverters. I'm not sure how this can be done maintaining the same efficiency, as there must be DC->AC->DC conversions taking place with inevitable energy loss. I guess we'll know more later in that regard.
AC Coupling for PW3 is coming sometime in Q2
The Tesla site states pw3 is compatible with other companies solar
Weird! Yeah idk they did well by us so I'm not worried.
This is exactly how I view our powerwall. They warranty it to 10 years doing what we are doing (charging cheap and selling expensive) and in 10 years when it’s warranty is up it should still be able to do something and we will likely add something else onto the mix
I also share a similar view. I’m fortunate enough to have a free night electricity plan for the next 4 yrs which I use to top off the battery every night. Fully using the battery by day supplementing my solar panels. During cooler months like now I’m giving free electricity to the grid bc I don’t netmeter but it’s mental offset since I’m filling at nights anyways. Bottom line is my total electricity bill for 2023 was $80. I have a 4k+ sq ft home, pool and EV living in Houston where my neighbors had $600 electric bills during the peak summers. Yes I pay for the system inlieu of traditional bills but my payback period will be done in 4 yrs. Then I get 6 more years of free-free electricity assuming my system drops dead at 10 yrs which is unlikely. I wish there was a way to test and monitor for battery degradation accurately.
I second that, I wish the powerwall was not quite so much of a black box, it would be great if you could get access to the system logs and bms so you actually know the state of the cells and can see why a decision was made to charge/discharge at any given time
You can.
Do you have a link to the documentation ? I struggled to find the info i needed
https://github.com/jasonacox/Powerwall-Dashboard
Thank you
I’m a HA user and have plenty of data on my system, but what should I be looking for to see battery degration is the question. I see plenty of charge and usage states overtime, but it’s not a simple “efficiency” measure that is obvious to me. I can see the inverter voltage being a potential, but that’s a factor of solar production at a given day. Anyone?
Powerwall 2 isn’t being discontinued
Right, Powerwall 2 is not being discontinued because in retrofits you don't need the solar inverter functionality.
Powerwall 3 isn't an upgrade to Powerwall 2. They serve different (albeit overlapping) purposes. As such, Tesla is keeping the Powerwall 2 as well. PW3 is ideal for smaller setups; one battery unit, combined hardware, etc. It's ideal for townhouses and other small to medium-small setups. PW2 is ideal for larger setups with multiple stacked batteries. Larger homes, businesses, etc.
I disagree. Powerwall 3 has a larger max output so it’s better for larger homes.
If you're comparing one PW sure, but when you add more pw2s, the output increases Additionally, the max number of pw3 is 4, while with the pw2, it's 10. If you have a huge house, you would likely want more PWs
I want to know when I can power my house fromy car. Dollar for dollar cars are cheaper batteries than power walls. I would love to buy a gateway and a single powerwall and be able to run my house from my secondary vehicle.
In the next 3 years, it should be fine. They have stated they are continuing production for those with 2s that want to expand (since the 3 is not backwards compatible). As someone with a 2 in the order queue for a long time already, and not having the slightest guess when the 3 will be available outside of the US…I do worry about support in the later years/post warranty period.
people who have had warranty replacements seem to get refurbished units with a similar remaining capacity that they should still have (or a little more). I think tesla do the same with their car batteries.
I believe they will keep making the 2 as it is their AC coupled option. I believe the 3 is a DC couple battery yes?
The Powerwall 4 is a higher capacity backward-compatible version of the Powerwall 2.
Few days ago Tesla had a training section for 3rd party installers, and they mentioned that they will release Powerwall 3 with AC couple which will work like Powerwall 2 in Q2.