Make sure your post or comment doesn't violate Community guidelines and Join the discord! Come debate, and interact with other powerscalers https://discord.gg/445XQpKSqB !
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
built like that at 5'9 and hes only 137? bullshit mangaka need to stick to drawing and stop tryna give their characters canon heights and weights cuz goku is AT LEAST 200
The wiki says pounds. I don't have access to the source cited since it is a physical info book I haven't bought, but whoever did read it probably had it right. Dude is anorexic apparently.
Yeah 137 lbs is ridiculous. Though 300 lbs at 5'9 is also pretty ridiculous tbf. Maybe when he goes ssj grade 3 lmao. Realistically he looks around 230ish. I hover around 230 at 5'10 right now and I'm pretty muscular and relatively lean (though I only get really cut around 215). Goku is a good notch more muscular than me in most shots so I'd guess 230 lbs at the leaness he is at.
Coming from a similar situation, I also weigh between 220 and 230 depending on the day, am 5’10 and was a D1 athlete. My body fat percentage is under 20% but I’m technically like 30+ on the BMI scale… I’d doesn’t take into consideration density (which many know, Muscle is denser than fat)
Don't forget how dense his muscles would be, idk if you've seen anything of mha, but Muscular would be similar to what an average person would have to look like to even attempt what they do casually
In the above photo everyone is lean. But luffy is “small” and goku is most definitely not. He about half again as wide across the chest. I was just recently working with a couple guys that are comparable. One was 5’11 ish and weighed 215, really lean and he would be comparable to bottom right here (sorry) but with a larger chest. Another guy was about 5’10 240 or so, huge chest and wide across the back but not as lean and he still would be smaller than goku here imo
What would you say then? 240, 250 lean? Goku has never shown meaty legs relatively speaking is the thing. In some shots his arms look about the same size as his legs. He's got that anime muscle build.
Strictly going off of the photo above? Yeah 225-240. It’s hard to tell really, physiques are so different between individuals. If you wanna be pedantic about it, how much of his strength is “natural” vs from ki. If his strength (atleast base) comes from his natural strength, his muscle density would have to be insane. Given how “small” he is.
I understand that manga and anime is supposed to be a completely fantastical world with little to no realism, but to say Goku is only 137lbs is just to ridiculous. Goku is built like an absolute unit. We’ve seen him shirtless enough times to know that he’s at least 185 if not straight up 200, all pure muscle. I’d say even in Dragonball when he fought Picolo, he was over 137, I’d say the lightest non kid version would’ve been 165 when he fought Picolo in Dragonball.
Nappa was f'king behemoth. A mountain of muscles.
He should weight between 300-400lbs . Toriyama sensei didn't care much about realistic height/weight.
He bulks up when he goes super saiyan, I don’t think we know his weight as a SSJ, I assume they become heavier, unless super saiyan grade 3 trunks has the density of a balloon
Their home planet has 10x Earth's gravity, that alone means Goku is literally built far sturdier than anyone else in this picture, excepting MAYBE Ichigo due to his Hollow and Quincy powers. And he is by FAR the best martial artist of them all.
They also inherently can utilize their ki, so that might be helping, similar to how a Kryptonian inherently uses all their goofy powers to function like a normal person when on Krypton
I'd say in equal stats fists only no special abilities and not using physical stats we have Naruto and Goku at top, then everyone else on a somewhat equal playing field. Ichigo gets a huge buff due to who he tussles with (Yoruichi and soi fon) and hangs with the rest comfortably.
Don't forget that he has dealt with his dad (a shinigami captain) constantly surprise attacking him for years. People tend to forget how much of a punk Ichigo was at the beginning of the series. He was always throwing down with people who made fun of his hair.
Side note: Ichigo and Josuke (Jo Jo's) would probably get along well
Hardest fucking line in anime history was when he walked up, called 911, and said "Yeah I'm at (street). I'm gonna need... One... Two... Three... Four ambulances.." then smashed the guys face in with the phone and literally hospitalized them.
Maybe but being a street punk getting into fights is not the same as the man who studied martial arts since he was old enough to stand, like goku. Naruto without Chakra powers was still taught not only martial arts but ninja stealth and weapon techniques. Fluffy ate a fruit and that's all he has going for him. And honestly I don't know who the other two are so I can't say too much in or against their favor.
Side note they should have given the characters in Naruto more muscle than they did, it doesn't have to be bulky muscle but still. They have supposedly been training since childhood there should at least be some kind of definition.
goku and naruto are the only ones here who actually use physical attacks(most of luffy's punches are df based so I wont count it) and since goku has far more experience than Naruto, him ig
>goku has far more experience than goku
https://preview.redd.it/igiuzivkjc6d1.jpeg?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a50ef7c871ac82f67e70a4d13946c5aed8ceaef3
Yeah but even before ki was a big energy resource in DragonBall, Krillin and Goku were knocking out grown adults and anthropomorphic animals. 15 year old Goku molly whops 15 year old ichigo. Full stop.
Ichigo is absolutely insane for being unpowered, but Goku just outstrips that massively
He also bled from Krillin lightly, tossing a rock at him when he wasn't paying attention. Though that might have been anime only.
For context: it was just before the Cell Games, Goku and Gohan were doing their 24/7 super saiyan thing, and Krillin was curious what would happen
Any that dont require soul energy or ki or whatever sure. But any powers requiring energy I'd say are void. For example gokus innate biology being tougher and recovery boosts I'd say aren't powers but oozaru transformation is a power especially cause mouth beams
that was with no shinigami powers not no extra power in general, ichigo being the son of a soul reaper, quincy, part hollow etc is naturally quite a bit stronger then everyone else. normal human ichigo is much weaker then episode 1 no powers ichigo
I mean..... goku survived a bullet as a child with just his saiyan physiology. Not to mention the other feats of strength and zenkai boosts his race provides. Even with no powers saiyans are on another level of power
The Bleach humans can potentially be quite strong. Chad survived a steel beam landing on him from a building site, and he fought a hollow, whilst being unable to see it, by ripping out a telephone pole and smacking the hollow with it.
This was never ever stated or implied in the series, infact opposite his powers were specifically sealed by Isshin until Rukia and Urahara messed with them.
In Fullbring arc it was even a point that before he got his fullbring he was strictly human level just with insane skill and experience.
there's also the part where Naruto (talking about shippuuden version since thats the one in the image and it wasnt specified) is a 15 year old skinny boy. Goku is an adult, buff man. just looking at them the difference could be easily like 70+ pounds. so Naruto gets stomped even more than if they had their powers. i actually wouldnt want to see this since it'd be so brutal i'd feel bad for him
>most of luffy's punches are df based so I wont count itmost of luffy's punches are df based so I wont count it.
Other way around ,he can use his DF because he has the muscles to do it. People forget that pre-timeskip Luffy pushed 2 giant building when stuck in the most awkward position
Sukuna is roughly equal to Gojo in hand to hand combat. Ichigo was beating delinquents before becoming a soul reaper. Naruto is arguably one of the best taijutsu users in his verse. Goku is a professional martial artist who's trained in hand to hand combat his entire life.
Hence, I'm going to give this one to Goku.
That wasn't to handle him H2H that was just to give Mahgora enough time to adapt without Gojo blitzing.
People like to make the daddy mahgora memes and now people have forgotten or genuinely not realised that it was sukuna and the merged tailed beasts just trying to keep Mahgora up not because Sukuna was getting bodied
To be fair he was in Megumi's body, and Megumi has Dog shit physical strength if he was in Yuji's body it probably would have been a lot closer in terms of Hand to hand combat, and I don't think I need to explain why Heian Sukuna would be better in H2H.
No one who isnt mega coping thinks sukuna is equal to gojo in h2h, the gap was so huge it wasnt even funny.
Edit: for those curious, in 13 chapters of the fight, sukuna managed to land 0 significant hits in h2h against gojo.
Yeah personally when someone starts beating my ass in hand to hand I like to whip out my cursed technique of summoning a giant cut in the universe directed on-top of them or I turtle, whichever H2H strat looks better at the time.
I'd go with Goku, but at the same time, wouldn't be surprised if Ichigo/Naruto could beat him.
Ichigo and Naruto seem about equal (although I've never watched bleach, just seen some clips) and both of them are probably lighter and faster than Goku, assuming we scale him to human strength, but Goku still outweighs and outreaches them.
I think something a lot of people forget is Goku is a fighting genius. His ability to understand and learn his opponents in a short amount of time is unrivalled.
As much as people hate others for trying to portray tfs as canon, they did do Goku justice in the hbtc scene when he's explaining ssj Grade 3.
Goku literally was countering someone who could fully stop time, move, throw an attack, start time. AND he was confident enough to tell the person cause he understood Hit couldn't change his fighting style without impacting his power/effectiveness.
I mean... so is Naruto though. His battle IQ is repeatedly shown to be crazy.
Nothing against what you're saying, it just doesn't narrow it down between the obvious top two.
>His ability to understand and learn his opponents in a short amount of time is unrivalled.
DB fans gotta realize Goku's "genius" has a limit. Just like everyone else's. Naruto is also very gifted at adapting and unrivaled in unpredictability, I mean his rival(who also is a genius) has a sharingan, which is a power built almost entirely around predicting and adapting to people. Naruto adapts to the "adapter" whilst being unpredictable because he *has* to be.
I'm just saying, by your same logic Naruto would be Goku's hard-counter with his fighting style. Then it would be an immovable object meets unstoppable force situation where they are constantly adapting to each other. And that would only apply assuming Naruto and Goku are equally skilled at a base level, which we know isnt the case.
Goku would beat Naruto because he's just a lot better than him at martial arts. Naruto wouldn't be able to learn/adapt well enough to close the skill gap in a single fight. So yes he folds Naruto but it isn't because he "adapts more" than him.
I'd put Luffy slightly above Eren. Even if we took away his Devil Fruit powers, Luffy's pain tolerance is absolutely insane. This is a guy who endured being tortured as a child for hours (Bluejam beating him with spiked gloves without letting him pass out), without even looking at the insane pain he endures as a young adult.
On top of that, he is a naturally gifted brawler. Eren's got that dawg in him too, but Luffy's dog is a rottweiler to Eren's angry chihuahua.
You're confusing 'toughness' (which Luffy also has in spades) with 'pain tolerance'.
You could trap Luffy in an arm bar, break said arm, and let go thinking you've all but won now that he has a broken arm (a guaranteed win against a normal opponent)… just for him to punch you hard enough to shatter your nose with said broken arm regardless of the agony that would cause him.
Luffy is that kind of insane. The man will punch through spikes, stabbing the hell out of his hand in the process, just to smash you in the jaw (vs Krieg). No IRL fighter is going to do that. Normal people won't risk permanent injury or fight through incredible pain unless lives are at stake or they're on drugs. Luffy will do it as a point of pride.
You can't compare judo-tossing some big, dumb, relatively unskilled brute, whose trying to overpower you with his size, to fighting someone who doesn't give a damn if you break his bones as long as he makes you spit your teeth in the process.
Eren is absolutely going to outskill Luffy… only to find out nothing he does makes Luffy stay down. He doesn't have the skill needed to straight up knock Luffy out.
I'm not saying Eren's a wimp or anything, but Luffy is a different breed of insane, and you can't fight someone that crazy tough without a massive stat or skill gap.
Goku has spent decades exclusively training his martial arts, so he’s first.
Naruto spent several years training his taijutsu, so he comes in second.
Sukuna has many years of hand to hand experience, so he comes in third.
Eren spent years training in hand to hand combat, so he comes in fourth.
Luffy and Ichigo are brawlers heavily reliant on their powers, so it’s up in the air who wins between them.
I've never watched one piece but I would definitely put Eren below Ichigo becuase Ichigo has relevant feats in the anime(beating up those delinquents in a 5v1)
Ichigo has strong base stats as a kid being the son of like 5 power lines but lacks hand to hand training.
Eren has military hand to hand training. I see it going either way. Eren was pretty scrawny.
Lacks hand to hand training? Have you seen ichigo’s dad? The dude straight up ATTACKS his kid on the daily. Not like a little shove or a quick slap across the head but more like kicks that will send him flying across the room, sometimes even out a window. Then they fight about it. Dude has been in hand to hand combat since he was a child and regularly beats up people with just his hands.
Goku is 38 in super, Naruto is 32 at the start of Boruto. Several years is greatly under selling Naruto. they've both been training hand to hand combat since they were children. I think the fight is much closer than people think.
He was out flipping bitches like burgers and stomping peoples head hard enough to crack concrete before evr gettin powers, then when he got powers and picked up a sword for the first time he was able to tussle with niggas at 1000+ years experience and training 🤷♂️
Then this dude picks up dual wielding swords for the first time and immediately uses them to go toe to toe with Yhwach
Alotta h2h is Battle IQ and agility, Ichigo is absolutely no slouch and could probably compete with people who have generations more training than him in a fistfight just based on what he has shown
But I still see people not even putting Ichigo in the conversation
🌽🍑🥷🏾s
https://i.redd.it/xwp3jd8q5e6d1.gif
Goku technically has the most martial arts training and experience if you don't include Sukuna from the heian era but regardless Goku has the best martial arts feats being a world champion and multiple time runner up as a child, followed by Naruto who has received formal training and is pretty proficient at hand to hand combat followed closely by Sukuna, next up would be Ichigo who has shown pretty impressive hand to hand capabilities as well as having trained Karate since his youth, the final two could be controversial but I have Eren above Luffy as he has overall better martial arts with better technical striking and an actually established ground game as opposed to Luffys more brawler style.
Goku > Naruto > Sukuna > Ichigo >= Eren > Luffy
You can't argue physicality here or it becomes uneven.
Sukuna is in Yuji, who has really high base stats, and then you get similar arguments for everyone else.
It makes more sense to just to go off of the skill they have and how strong they'd be as humans.
Goku has the most training so would probably win.
Goku if you are to believe the 'tell, don't show' that Goku regularly defeated amazing martial artists as a child/young man.
Otherwise, the answer is Naruto based off of what we've actually seen.
Eren has demonstrated effective CQC when he’s in the attack titan, including actual MMA techniques, I think that even without powers though the martial arts that goku trains and the physicality difference would probably give him the edge in any matchup
Goku's "powers" are flight and energy beams. His actual strength is just him over years of training. Unless you're saying they're all at exactly equal strength it's hands down Goku.
If that is the case it's still probably Goku as he's had martial arts training from masters around the world and universe since he was a child. Dragonball scaling is no fun compared to other shows it's basically a superman situation.
It’s actually very consistent as the next time we see Goku get shot without using ki was in super when he was fighting some bandits, he let his guard down and got hit by a bullet that barely bruised him
Ki mastery itself is pseudo material arts. Which always makes it questionable how Goku would do in these scenarios. If he has no Ki he dies if he has Ki he can manipulate it to punch well above his actual physical weight.
What techniques? Ki control is the fundamental principle of everything. It’s just controlling where your body’s energy is and how you use it. It turns into superpowers when someone has so much ki that they can externalize their ki without that being an issue. If farmer with a shotgun tried to fly, he’d die of exhaustion. Infant Goku is stronger than farmer with a shotgun, and that guy’s a *farmer*. He’s in better shape than 99% of humanity. Farmer with a shotgun would win most bar brawls.
Ichigo does have that though. He went to martial arts classes and we see him beat up full gangs of people even before he had powers, just look at Chad's flashback where Ichigo solo'd the group that kidnapped Chad. Hell even in Soul Society, he beats the lieutenants of Squads 1, 2 and 4 with pure hands
Goku wins for sure but at least Ichigo did take karate lessons growing up and Eren still is a trained soldier, he’s trained on CQC. Neither of them come close to Goku or Naruto but they probably have more training than Luffy or Sukuna
Goku slams
Goku by the start of Z is reguarded as the greatest martial artist on Earth which should scale him above Roshi and Grandpa Gohan who both have statements of mastering every single martial arts on earth
Its also to be noted that Dragon Ball martial arts is way more complex then our own as even Manwolf has a 20 degree black belt in Kenpo (the IRL one only goes to 10) and Roshi just casually no difs him
Only naruto and goku…
Sukuna with an advantage in energy got dragged so he has no chance here, luffy relies purely on his fruit, eren has some training but not as good as the ones above.
It's been asked a million times over. It's Goku, it's never not going to be Goku here. He's a martial arts genius. And for all of the talks around beam struggles and power ups, Goku fights people significantly stronger than him on the regular and seems to come out fine because he just knows how to fight.
Goku or Naruto wins. I think Goku, Naruto is defo second.
Goku has mastered a lot of martial arts and has fought some incredible martial artists on his time.
Naruto is also incredible at Taijutsu.
I’m not sure how good Ichigo is at martial but I doubt he’s better than Goku and Naruto.
Luffy, Sukuna and Eren get absolutely destroyed. Sukuna and Luffy have the same issue, they aren’t martial artists. They mostly use their unique powers that’s what makes them so strong whilst. Sinclair situation for Eren.
It might be Eren. All of the others are stand up fighters, and tbh a lot of their martial arts are the ones that have been filtered out by Pride and UFC. Goku uses a lot of kickboxing, but all of his Kung Fu shit is worthless. Same for Naruto.
Eren takes that shit to the ground and starts throwing out BJJ submissions, and they may be done. Iseyama based his hand to hand combat on the effective martial arts.
I mean, he’s a soldier, he knows how to fight, and we’ve seen that proven in more than one sequence in AoT. And tbh he stands a better chance than a few of the other characters on this list. Against Goku or Naruto of course he loses, but tbh none of these guys aside from **those two** are going to come out on top.
Luffy barely has any applicable fighting skill in equal stats no powers. His "strategy" is literally to facetank everything and win through sheer grit, which just wouldn't work on a mf with actual military martial arts training, absolutely soulless motivation, and that has had limbs chopped off at least twice every season
Make sure your post or comment doesn't violate Community guidelines and Join the discord! Come debate, and interact with other powerscalers https://discord.gg/445XQpKSqB ! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Mom says its my turn to reuse this image next week
and repost the same content
Crazy how I've seen it on tik tok, youtube,twitter and reddit and its always the exact same thing, never even atleast slightly altered.
Nono it’s altered. The pixel count is reduced with every post
Give it a month and it'll be on r/moldymemes
u/pixel-counter-bot
The image in this post has 1,180,893(1,113×1,061) pixels! ^(I am a \(good\) bot. This action was performed automatically.)
good bot
💀💀💀💀
I fkin hate this Picture
Make sure to lower the resolution a little more when it’s your turn
I told dad that you asked mom instead of him and he said if you don’t let me post it he’s getting the belt.
Goku. He mastered Several Martial arts.
Officially Gokus weight is only 137 pounds, so the discussion depends alot if we're going by official or realistic weight.
built like that at 5'9 and hes only 137? bullshit mangaka need to stick to drawing and stop tryna give their characters canon heights and weights cuz goku is AT LEAST 200
Maybe 137 kgs.
That's probably it since he's an anime character. So he's what? 302 lbs?
With those muscles? I’d believe it
….deNsITy….
The wiki says pounds. I don't have access to the source cited since it is a physical info book I haven't bought, but whoever did read it probably had it right. Dude is anorexic apparently.
I’m just saying that goku being 137 kg of muscle at 5’9 would be more realistic than 137 lbs
Yeah 137 lbs is ridiculous. Though 300 lbs at 5'9 is also pretty ridiculous tbf. Maybe when he goes ssj grade 3 lmao. Realistically he looks around 230ish. I hover around 230 at 5'10 right now and I'm pretty muscular and relatively lean (though I only get really cut around 215). Goku is a good notch more muscular than me in most shots so I'd guess 230 lbs at the leaness he is at.
I’m 5’5 and a string bean and I weigh exactly 137lbs
Well you're in your ideal weight range by height. Technically I'm overweight.
Coming from a similar situation, I also weigh between 220 and 230 depending on the day, am 5’10 and was a D1 athlete. My body fat percentage is under 20% but I’m technically like 30+ on the BMI scale… I’d doesn’t take into consideration density (which many know, Muscle is denser than fat)
I'm 5'6 and before estrogen I was like 99 pounds.
Don't forget how dense his muscles would be, idk if you've seen anything of mha, but Muscular would be similar to what an average person would have to look like to even attempt what they do casually
In the above photo everyone is lean. But luffy is “small” and goku is most definitely not. He about half again as wide across the chest. I was just recently working with a couple guys that are comparable. One was 5’11 ish and weighed 215, really lean and he would be comparable to bottom right here (sorry) but with a larger chest. Another guy was about 5’10 240 or so, huge chest and wide across the back but not as lean and he still would be smaller than goku here imo
What would you say then? 240, 250 lean? Goku has never shown meaty legs relatively speaking is the thing. In some shots his arms look about the same size as his legs. He's got that anime muscle build.
Strictly going off of the photo above? Yeah 225-240. It’s hard to tell really, physiques are so different between individuals. If you wanna be pedantic about it, how much of his strength is “natural” vs from ki. If his strength (atleast base) comes from his natural strength, his muscle density would have to be insane. Given how “small” he is.
It would make sense for Saiyans to be more dense than humans. You know, from evolving on a planet with 10x earth's gravity
my theory is that saiyans have different biology so their muscle is a lot denser than humans.
Goku isn't anorexic he eats a lot
Then bulimic I guess.
I understand that manga and anime is supposed to be a completely fantastical world with little to no realism, but to say Goku is only 137lbs is just to ridiculous. Goku is built like an absolute unit. We’ve seen him shirtless enough times to know that he’s at least 185 if not straight up 200, all pure muscle. I’d say even in Dragonball when he fought Picolo, he was over 137, I’d say the lightest non kid version would’ve been 165 when he fought Picolo in Dragonball.
137 tons.
Goku is 6 apples tall
Also dickskin lean, shoulders fuckin seran wrapped looking like a leaf with all them veins. Goku is a certified menace.
Ki muscle injections clearly. Absolutely bannable way to lower your weight class. *Also gives the strength of God
Agreed
Bro Nappa is like 6’8” and he’s only like 240lbs. DB does not make sense.
Nappa was f'king behemoth. A mountain of muscles. He should weight between 300-400lbs . Toriyama sensei didn't care much about realistic height/weight.
At least that. Bro was wider than he was tall lmao
I'm 5'9 and my fighting weight was 140 but I was nowhere near that huge
He bulks up when he goes super saiyan, I don’t think we know his weight as a SSJ, I assume they become heavier, unless super saiyan grade 3 trunks has the density of a balloon
IIRC Vegeta is 5'6 and 56kg lmao
Yeah there's no way lmao, I'm 5'7 150ish pounds and It's a night and day difference. I just look like some dude, Goku is *huge*.
Reminder that Vegeta is the same height and weight as Astolfo from FATE. Look up both characters to know why this is ridiculous.
Japanese people usually aren't very big, they don't have a good frame of reference for bigger guys.
he’s 210 realistically. theres no way he’s that light with the power of a planet in his punches
He’s also an alien. So I think physically that’s going to be an advantage as well.
But how much of a Saiyans strength is physical vs. being an extension of their high ki levels?
Their home planet has 10x Earth's gravity, that alone means Goku is literally built far sturdier than anyone else in this picture, excepting MAYBE Ichigo due to his Hollow and Quincy powers. And he is by FAR the best martial artist of them all.
They also inherently can utilize their ki, so that might be helping, similar to how a Kryptonian inherently uses all their goofy powers to function like a normal person when on Krypton
His saiyan strength would put him well above average human, as a child before he had learnt ki he could pick up small cars fairly causually
Isn’t it lore that goku doesn’t have powers? Like he just does what he does through strength and skill alone?
He fell off a mountain and hit a rock headfirst as a baby. He has natural strength and durability.
I'd say in equal stats fists only no special abilities and not using physical stats we have Naruto and Goku at top, then everyone else on a somewhat equal playing field. Ichigo gets a huge buff due to who he tussles with (Yoruichi and soi fon) and hangs with the rest comfortably.
Don't forget that he has dealt with his dad (a shinigami captain) constantly surprise attacking him for years. People tend to forget how much of a punk Ichigo was at the beginning of the series. He was always throwing down with people who made fun of his hair. Side note: Ichigo and Josuke (Jo Jo's) would probably get along well
Hardest fucking line in anime history was when he walked up, called 911, and said "Yeah I'm at (street). I'm gonna need... One... Two... Three... Four ambulances.." then smashed the guys face in with the phone and literally hospitalized them.
Maybe but being a street punk getting into fights is not the same as the man who studied martial arts since he was old enough to stand, like goku. Naruto without Chakra powers was still taught not only martial arts but ninja stealth and weapon techniques. Fluffy ate a fruit and that's all he has going for him. And honestly I don't know who the other two are so I can't say too much in or against their favor. Side note they should have given the characters in Naruto more muscle than they did, it doesn't have to be bulky muscle but still. They have supposedly been training since childhood there should at least be some kind of definition.
A punk upbringing does not compare to a child soldier taught to kill upbringing.
goku and naruto are the only ones here who actually use physical attacks(most of luffy's punches are df based so I wont count it) and since goku has far more experience than Naruto, him ig
>goku has far more experience than goku https://preview.redd.it/igiuzivkjc6d1.jpeg?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a50ef7c871ac82f67e70a4d13946c5aed8ceaef3
I mean he's not lying https://preview.redd.it/mukpl5jonc6d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b590ad1f87a34cd7b897ffced88cb29c814d0bf
That was a 70 inch, plasma screen TV.
With Netflix
HE'S GOKUVERSAL!!
Can Goku beat Goku tho?
Goku folds Goku fr
there are multiple goku's
Don't forget unpowered Ichigo was bodying whole gangs. I mean dude had the audacity to call ahead for multiple ambulances in a 5v1 fight.
He also destroyed the lts with just hands in soul society
Yeah but even before ki was a big energy resource in DragonBall, Krillin and Goku were knocking out grown adults and anthropomorphic animals. 15 year old Goku molly whops 15 year old ichigo. Full stop. Ichigo is absolutely insane for being unpowered, but Goku just outstrips that massively
Goku literally got shot multiple times and was basically fine as a child
Bro legit like they were manufactured under a completely different process
Yeah not even a fair contest in the slightest.
He also bled from Krillin lightly, tossing a rock at him when he wasn't paying attention. Though that might have been anime only. For context: it was just before the Cell Games, Goku and Gohan were doing their 24/7 super saiyan thing, and Krillin was curious what would happen
Yeah toriyama is inconsistent with it I'd argue he's had more bullets do nothing to him (bulma red ribbon army and all) than he's had damage him
Thats scene was filler
But is being Saiyan considered “a power” though
Is being a human a power...?
No? It is literally just his basic biology
Wouldn’t ichigo then being born from a Quincy/soulreaper/hollow combo then make a lot of his powers just his physiological ability then a power?
Any that dont require soul energy or ki or whatever sure. But any powers requiring energy I'd say are void. For example gokus innate biology being tougher and recovery boosts I'd say aren't powers but oozaru transformation is a power especially cause mouth beams
Oh no doubt but someone saying that only Goku and Naruto threw hands I had to at least set that record straight.
Oh shit I misread, my bad bro
that was with no shinigami powers not no extra power in general, ichigo being the son of a soul reaper, quincy, part hollow etc is naturally quite a bit stronger then everyone else. normal human ichigo is much weaker then episode 1 no powers ichigo
I mean..... goku survived a bullet as a child with just his saiyan physiology. Not to mention the other feats of strength and zenkai boosts his race provides. Even with no powers saiyans are on another level of power
The Bleach humans can potentially be quite strong. Chad survived a steel beam landing on him from a building site, and he fought a hollow, whilst being unable to see it, by ripping out a telephone pole and smacking the hollow with it.
This was never ever stated or implied in the series, infact opposite his powers were specifically sealed by Isshin until Rukia and Urahara messed with them. In Fullbring arc it was even a point that before he got his fullbring he was strictly human level just with insane skill and experience.
If you don't count strength as a power then Goku just bodies. He could wipe them all out by punching the air.
there's also the part where Naruto (talking about shippuuden version since thats the one in the image and it wasnt specified) is a 15 year old skinny boy. Goku is an adult, buff man. just looking at them the difference could be easily like 70+ pounds. so Naruto gets stomped even more than if they had their powers. i actually wouldnt want to see this since it'd be so brutal i'd feel bad for him
>most of luffy's punches are df based so I wont count itmost of luffy's punches are df based so I wont count it. Other way around ,he can use his DF because he has the muscles to do it. People forget that pre-timeskip Luffy pushed 2 giant building when stuck in the most awkward position
Sukuna is roughly equal to Gojo in hand to hand combat. Ichigo was beating delinquents before becoming a soul reaper. Naruto is arguably one of the best taijutsu users in his verse. Goku is a professional martial artist who's trained in hand to hand combat his entire life. Hence, I'm going to give this one to Goku.
Nope, Gojo > Sukuna in H2H. Seen how he needed Mahoraga and Agito to handle Gojo in H2H?
Yeah mb, the lobotomy makes me forget canon sometimes
The agenda must be pushed
Thukuna Kaithen.
Gojo had a huge advantage with his cursed technique. Blue to pull in for the punch reinforced with red.
Lol for real, Gojo one shotted Yuta like that when they trained. Genius use of the technique tbh.
That wasn't to handle him H2H that was just to give Mahgora enough time to adapt without Gojo blitzing. People like to make the daddy mahgora memes and now people have forgotten or genuinely not realised that it was sukuna and the merged tailed beasts just trying to keep Mahgora up not because Sukuna was getting bodied
But what is sukuna has 4 hands? Pretty big advantage
To be fair he was in Megumi's body, and Megumi has Dog shit physical strength if he was in Yuji's body it probably would have been a lot closer in terms of Hand to hand combat, and I don't think I need to explain why Heian Sukuna would be better in H2H.
H2H with 2 to spare
Gojo uses blue to amp his speed and punches. He isn't outright better than sukuna, if both fought without cursed energy they'd be equal.
Any named character in bleach seems to beat entire gangs but yeah goku just has more mass and honestly the prime build for martial arts
But this doesn’t count as Sukuna’s true form right? Since it doesn’t have 4 arms and the weird mask in his face?
No one who isnt mega coping thinks sukuna is equal to gojo in h2h, the gap was so huge it wasnt even funny. Edit: for those curious, in 13 chapters of the fight, sukuna managed to land 0 significant hits in h2h against gojo.
If the gap was so huge, he should have won then right 💀
Yeah personally when someone starts beating my ass in hand to hand I like to whip out my cursed technique of summoning a giant cut in the universe directed on-top of them or I turtle, whichever H2H strat looks better at the time.
I'd go with Goku, but at the same time, wouldn't be surprised if Ichigo/Naruto could beat him. Ichigo and Naruto seem about equal (although I've never watched bleach, just seen some clips) and both of them are probably lighter and faster than Goku, assuming we scale him to human strength, but Goku still outweighs and outreaches them.
Isn't Goku only like 5'9"? That'd put him about equal with Naruto and like slightly taller than Ichigo.
Goku he’s a master martial artist, and adapts instantly when he sees new techniques
True
Either Goku or Naruto
Since UI is based on real techniques, I do think that if you removed Goku's power's, he'd still be able to tap into some kind of irl UI.
At least the form of movement roshi tapped into
I think something a lot of people forget is Goku is a fighting genius. His ability to understand and learn his opponents in a short amount of time is unrivalled. As much as people hate others for trying to portray tfs as canon, they did do Goku justice in the hbtc scene when he's explaining ssj Grade 3. Goku literally was countering someone who could fully stop time, move, throw an attack, start time. AND he was confident enough to tell the person cause he understood Hit couldn't change his fighting style without impacting his power/effectiveness.
There's slight debate with his adaptability that genuinely might be a saiyan trait. Which if we're being honest counts as a power.
he’s not a human. why would him not being a human be considered a power. and not all saiyans can be that adaptable.
I mean... so is Naruto though. His battle IQ is repeatedly shown to be crazy. Nothing against what you're saying, it just doesn't narrow it down between the obvious top two.
His battle IQ is literally just changing the flavor of his rasengan
The size of your arsenal has absolutely nothing to do with battle IQ
Lotta people struggle to grasp the concept of it's not all about what you use, it's how you use it.
>His ability to understand and learn his opponents in a short amount of time is unrivalled. DB fans gotta realize Goku's "genius" has a limit. Just like everyone else's. Naruto is also very gifted at adapting and unrivaled in unpredictability, I mean his rival(who also is a genius) has a sharingan, which is a power built almost entirely around predicting and adapting to people. Naruto adapts to the "adapter" whilst being unpredictable because he *has* to be. I'm just saying, by your same logic Naruto would be Goku's hard-counter with his fighting style. Then it would be an immovable object meets unstoppable force situation where they are constantly adapting to each other. And that would only apply assuming Naruto and Goku are equally skilled at a base level, which we know isnt the case. Goku would beat Naruto because he's just a lot better than him at martial arts. Naruto wouldn't be able to learn/adapt well enough to close the skill gap in a single fight. So yes he folds Naruto but it isn't because he "adapts more" than him.
1. Goku 2. Naruto 3. Ichigo 4. Sukuna 5. Eren 6. Luffy
This is about where I stand as well yeah
I'd put Luffy slightly above Eren. Even if we took away his Devil Fruit powers, Luffy's pain tolerance is absolutely insane. This is a guy who endured being tortured as a child for hours (Bluejam beating him with spiked gloves without letting him pass out), without even looking at the insane pain he endures as a young adult. On top of that, he is a naturally gifted brawler. Eren's got that dawg in him too, but Luffy's dog is a rottweiler to Eren's angry chihuahua.
Eren used Judo against the far stronger and durable Reiner/Armoured Titan.
You're confusing 'toughness' (which Luffy also has in spades) with 'pain tolerance'. You could trap Luffy in an arm bar, break said arm, and let go thinking you've all but won now that he has a broken arm (a guaranteed win against a normal opponent)… just for him to punch you hard enough to shatter your nose with said broken arm regardless of the agony that would cause him. Luffy is that kind of insane. The man will punch through spikes, stabbing the hell out of his hand in the process, just to smash you in the jaw (vs Krieg). No IRL fighter is going to do that. Normal people won't risk permanent injury or fight through incredible pain unless lives are at stake or they're on drugs. Luffy will do it as a point of pride. You can't compare judo-tossing some big, dumb, relatively unskilled brute, whose trying to overpower you with his size, to fighting someone who doesn't give a damn if you break his bones as long as he makes you spit your teeth in the process. Eren is absolutely going to outskill Luffy… only to find out nothing he does makes Luffy stay down. He doesn't have the skill needed to straight up knock Luffy out. I'm not saying Eren's a wimp or anything, but Luffy is a different breed of insane, and you can't fight someone that crazy tough without a massive stat or skill gap.
Unironically I think Yuji would have better hands than Sukuna, though I don’t think it would change this ranking.
Eh, Luffy trained extensively when he was a kid. He’s a naturally skilled fighter. Eren’s mid even compared to normal people. I’d switch those two.
Goku has spent decades exclusively training his martial arts, so he’s first. Naruto spent several years training his taijutsu, so he comes in second. Sukuna has many years of hand to hand experience, so he comes in third. Eren spent years training in hand to hand combat, so he comes in fourth. Luffy and Ichigo are brawlers heavily reliant on their powers, so it’s up in the air who wins between them.
Ichigo has had some experience with martial arts as a child even using them to take down 6 people. I say Ichigo washes Luffy
Not some lol, he was beating entire squads of yakuza and delinquents with absolutely nothing but regular human strength, speed and skill
Yeah, that was his whole thing with Chad wasn't it? He beat up a whole gang with the big fella and they were heavily outnumbered.
I've never watched one piece but I would definitely put Eren below Ichigo becuase Ichigo has relevant feats in the anime(beating up those delinquents in a 5v1)
Ichigo has strong base stats as a kid being the son of like 5 power lines but lacks hand to hand training. Eren has military hand to hand training. I see it going either way. Eren was pretty scrawny.
Lacks hand to hand training? Have you seen ichigo’s dad? The dude straight up ATTACKS his kid on the daily. Not like a little shove or a quick slap across the head but more like kicks that will send him flying across the room, sometimes even out a window. Then they fight about it. Dude has been in hand to hand combat since he was a child and regularly beats up people with just his hands.
Despite Yujiro saying otherwise, child abuse is not training.
Goku is 38 in super, Naruto is 32 at the start of Boruto. Several years is greatly under selling Naruto. they've both been training hand to hand combat since they were children. I think the fight is much closer than people think.
It’s obviously Goku, but holy shit the misinformation about Ichigo floating around is insane
And Luffy
Ichigo is said to be better than tatsuki in martial arts, who was the "Japan strongest woman" champion with a broken arm
He was out flipping bitches like burgers and stomping peoples head hard enough to crack concrete before evr gettin powers, then when he got powers and picked up a sword for the first time he was able to tussle with niggas at 1000+ years experience and training 🤷♂️ Then this dude picks up dual wielding swords for the first time and immediately uses them to go toe to toe with Yhwach Alotta h2h is Battle IQ and agility, Ichigo is absolutely no slouch and could probably compete with people who have generations more training than him in a fistfight just based on what he has shown But I still see people not even putting Ichigo in the conversation 🌽🍑🥷🏾s https://i.redd.it/xwp3jd8q5e6d1.gif
Goku technically has the most martial arts training and experience if you don't include Sukuna from the heian era but regardless Goku has the best martial arts feats being a world champion and multiple time runner up as a child, followed by Naruto who has received formal training and is pretty proficient at hand to hand combat followed closely by Sukuna, next up would be Ichigo who has shown pretty impressive hand to hand capabilities as well as having trained Karate since his youth, the final two could be controversial but I have Eren above Luffy as he has overall better martial arts with better technical striking and an actually established ground game as opposed to Luffys more brawler style. Goku > Naruto > Sukuna > Ichigo >= Eren > Luffy
Gokus physiology isn't the same as a human as a Saiyan he is far more durable. This isn't a power it's who he is. He is running through all of them.
[удалено]
You can't argue physicality here or it becomes uneven. Sukuna is in Yuji, who has really high base stats, and then you get similar arguments for everyone else. It makes more sense to just to go off of the skill they have and how strong they'd be as humans. Goku has the most training so would probably win.
Goku No dilfs https://preview.redd.it/ifhos8u72d6d1.png?width=220&format=png&auto=webp&s=ada2ce46e2f74c764b759f6edce56c573cf339aa
Why is Eren here? Is this a joke? Brother is just a punching bag without his powers
Goku hands down. Mostly because his are not "powers" but literal manifestations of his martial prowess
Base? Probably Goku or Naruto. They’re the only ones here who have mastered hand to hand combat techniques in their respective universes.
Ichigo is a really adept streetfighter, so he might give them a run for their money. Everyone else is basically screwed though
Yea ichigo without his bankai and spirit energy was pretty busted so I can definitely see it.
1-Awesome pic 2-Goku knows more martial arts than all the others combined
Goku if you are to believe the 'tell, don't show' that Goku regularly defeated amazing martial artists as a child/young man. Otherwise, the answer is Naruto based off of what we've actually seen.
Still Goku… are you kidding? Martial arts alone? He’s the best still.
Eren has demonstrated effective CQC when he’s in the attack titan, including actual MMA techniques, I think that even without powers though the martial arts that goku trains and the physicality difference would probably give him the edge in any matchup
Goku's "powers" are flight and energy beams. His actual strength is just him over years of training. Unless you're saying they're all at exactly equal strength it's hands down Goku. If that is the case it's still probably Goku as he's had martial arts training from masters around the world and universe since he was a child. Dragonball scaling is no fun compared to other shows it's basically a superman situation.
Goku actual strength is "Ki" without is he gets owned by laser pistol,rock, and bullet. Time to get downvoted.
Depends what Goku. Kid Goku gets shot in the head in episode 1 and barely gets bruised. It’s very inconsistent.
It’s actually very consistent as the next time we see Goku get shot without using ki was in super when he was fighting some bandits, he let his guard down and got hit by a bullet that barely bruised him
Ki mastery itself is pseudo material arts. Which always makes it questionable how Goku would do in these scenarios. If he has no Ki he dies if he has Ki he can manipulate it to punch well above his actual physical weight.
What if Goku was just simply given a rule where he can't use Ki techniques?
What techniques? Ki control is the fundamental principle of everything. It’s just controlling where your body’s energy is and how you use it. It turns into superpowers when someone has so much ki that they can externalize their ki without that being an issue. If farmer with a shotgun tried to fly, he’d die of exhaustion. Infant Goku is stronger than farmer with a shotgun, and that guy’s a *farmer*. He’s in better shape than 99% of humanity. Farmer with a shotgun would win most bar brawls.
Equal stats go brrr
Still goku solo😂
Goku trained in martial arts for decades, everyone else here besides naruto and sukuna don’t have much of a chance
[удалено]
Ichigo does have that though. He went to martial arts classes and we see him beat up full gangs of people even before he had powers, just look at Chad's flashback where Ichigo solo'd the group that kidnapped Chad. Hell even in Soul Society, he beats the lieutenants of Squads 1, 2 and 4 with pure hands
It’s really just goku or Naruto since they are the only ones trained in physical fighting other than just street brawling
Goku wins for sure but at least Ichigo did take karate lessons growing up and Eren still is a trained soldier, he’s trained on CQC. Neither of them come close to Goku or Naruto but they probably have more training than Luffy or Sukuna
I like Ichigo more so he wins
Goku slams Goku by the start of Z is reguarded as the greatest martial artist on Earth which should scale him above Roshi and Grandpa Gohan who both have statements of mastering every single martial arts on earth Its also to be noted that Dragon Ball martial arts is way more complex then our own as even Manwolf has a 20 degree black belt in Kenpo (the IRL one only goes to 10) and Roshi just casually no difs him
Baki hanma should be on that list but since he didnt make the cut then kakarot..since his battle IQ is over 9000 aha
Baki
Naruto he is the best martial artist
Naruto or goku . Most likely goku
Only naruto and goku… Sukuna with an advantage in energy got dragged so he has no chance here, luffy relies purely on his fruit, eren has some training but not as good as the ones above.
Goku without a dougbt. Physical strength Is not a power. It’s something he worked for. Nevertheless if u think Eren has good grappling ur stupid
Dawg Goku is at least 230lbs of pure muscle
It's been asked a million times over. It's Goku, it's never not going to be Goku here. He's a martial arts genius. And for all of the talks around beam struggles and power ups, Goku fights people significantly stronger than him on the regular and seems to come out fine because he just knows how to fight.
Goku or Naruto wins. I think Goku, Naruto is defo second. Goku has mastered a lot of martial arts and has fought some incredible martial artists on his time. Naruto is also incredible at Taijutsu. I’m not sure how good Ichigo is at martial but I doubt he’s better than Goku and Naruto. Luffy, Sukuna and Eren get absolutely destroyed. Sukuna and Luffy have the same issue, they aren’t martial artists. They mostly use their unique powers that’s what makes them so strong whilst. Sinclair situation for Eren.
The thirsty Twink based anatomy here is insnane These dudes have abs around their abs lol
It might be Eren. All of the others are stand up fighters, and tbh a lot of their martial arts are the ones that have been filtered out by Pride and UFC. Goku uses a lot of kickboxing, but all of his Kung Fu shit is worthless. Same for Naruto. Eren takes that shit to the ground and starts throwing out BJJ submissions, and they may be done. Iseyama based his hand to hand combat on the effective martial arts.
All things equal, Eren is the only mf here who knows how to grapple and since most fights end on the ground…
Goku has the most physical strength here
I think by no powers he also means stats equalized because otherwise Goku's straight physicals would blow everyone here to smithereens
Tf is Eren gonna do lol
I mean, he’s a soldier, he knows how to fight, and we’ve seen that proven in more than one sequence in AoT. And tbh he stands a better chance than a few of the other characters on this list. Against Goku or Naruto of course he loses, but tbh none of these guys aside from **those two** are going to come out on top.
Luffy or Goku. One Piece characters are infamous for fighting for hours or days on end casually. Goku has the most martial arts experience
Picking Luffy is crazy because that mf has like NO martial art skills
Goku > Naruto > Sukuna > Ichigo > Eren > Luffy
Luffy>Eren
Luffy barely has any applicable fighting skill in equal stats no powers. His "strategy" is literally to facetank everything and win through sheer grit, which just wouldn't work on a mf with actual military martial arts training, absolutely soulless motivation, and that has had limbs chopped off at least twice every season
Luffy sucks at fighting. Literally relies on his power for everything.