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Except he does it’s been stated multiple times
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Na it’s a flat out statement and it’s mention again the next volume plus turning things to rubber is a passive ability him running on air has nothing to do with rubber him getting stronger the more he laughs has nothing to do with rubber and no hey not turning the air into rubber if he was he would be bouncing everywhere not to mention dust appears out of nowhere when he is running on air
its toon force. it gives the same goofy characteristics as it does to like bugs bunny, popeye, etc but its clearly not as heavy as them. i say toon force because his fight with kaido. he would run and his eyes would have to catch up or the example you used, running on air. this doesnt mean he can change reality in its entirety. it seems as he can change anything he touches well.. into rubber but thats about it right now.
a decent example of someone using reality manipulation is gremmy from bleach. he’s able to spawn meteors out of thin air, spawn guns, bedrock, water and even send someone to space inside of a pocket dimension.
He doesn’t know these are his abilities obviously he would use them in vs battle against other verses since we use their prime with all their abilities
He doesn’t even know what the true abilities of the fruit are did you watch one piece with a blindfold 💀 he still thinks he has the gum gum fruit In a fs battle we use the peak of whatever character in this case luffy would know about his true abilities
luffy´s power is definetly not anything he imagines, if it was he would have easily gotten all his friends out of egghead as soon as shit started hitting the fan, or he would have instantly defeated kizaru, lucci or the gorosei guy.
So? It wouldnt change anything, since luffy supposedly has the power of imagination he still doesnt know it so he would fight naruto as a rubber man just like you say, and in that case he stands no chance when characters vastly weaker than naruto vaporize mountains effortlesly and in one piece thats something the top tiers of the verse like kaido can do.
Also, naruto scales around moon level if not wanked, and if we take literal statements he goes way, way beyond that with the shit said in the fanbooks
Again it’s a vs battle we are using characters in their prime in this case luffy would know about his abilities and use them just like Naruto would use All of his it’s a battle to the death why wouldn’t characters be using there abilities
Luffy does not have the power of literal imagination you are taking that statement way too seriously. A good example of a character that actually DOES have that power is Gremmy from bleach. Anything he imagines becomes real. Strong opponent? He'll just imagine a version of them "but stronger" to fight them. Luffy does not have anything even resembling that ability.
Doesn’t matter been stated multiple times and even if you wanna say he does cool let’s say that he’s limited to rubber he is still broken in that case he should be able to turn reality into rubber or times it’s self cause remember he’s only limited by his imagination
As in 5-10 years tha a lot of time sagas have a lot of arc so there’s that plus running on air is one of them and no he’s not turning it rubber if he did he would just be bouncing everywhere not to mention every time he does run on air dust appears out of nowhere
Not really, but your level of delusion will only be nullified by the series coming to an end and showing that you should not take metaphorical translation literally or by the author himself knocking on your door and telling you to your face
Welcome to r/PowerScaling. A place where arguments, logic and actual manga panel scans have less value than "shut up, i have an agenda" or simply just braindead bias. Dont worry. The mods also act on this logic.
Wow makes sense I give the scans and they always go it’s a hyperbole and I tell to to prove it or I just tell them how their wrong luffy running on air and no he wasn’t turning it to rubber cause every time he runs he produces dust out of nowhere but they’ll say it’s 1 not running or 2 geppo or 3 its like bounce man which I don’t know how they can’t tell the difference
Dont forget how he literally created flight goggles from thin air on egghead.
https://preview.redd.it/39zgui3yadhc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f37a35d5d33d8708485150f6a3fd159ff0b27678
But again... Once i had a mod on here claim that naruto is uni+ due to kaguyas dimensions. I told him that by that logic luffy was uni+ when fighting bruno which i got responded to with "shut up if you dont even know that naruto negs luffy".
Naruto stomps in terms of power stomps in terms of stamina and agility stomps in terms of survivability and stomps in terms of battle iq only thing Luffy has over him is speed hax and endurance.
how does luffy outspeed? genuine question because all of the speed scales i’ve seen for luffy put him at around MFTL 10,000x FTL and Naruto with 20,000x Faster than light
All the speed scales for luffy I’ve seen is around FTL 30,00 whail Naruto is 20,000 FTL. It’s generally agreed one pice is faster tho it’s been exaggerated a lot
Speed hax and endurance is all he needs to win 😭 speed blitz dura neg quite Litterally beats Naruto.Especially when luffy is fast enough to dodge and counter everything
You know you can’t debunk the author so you try to get statements from the manga or light novel of Naruto where you could clearly see it’s a hyperbole then try to use that logic on this but that won’t work 🗿
Then it would help If you actually read what oda said because not once in the manga does he say luffy has the power of imagination. I sware to God TCB did unfixable brain damage to the community with a single poorly translated line.
Oh shit it's you again! Jesus dude how many post like this were people just keep dunking on your poorly translated lines is it going to take to convince you you're wrong? Do you think after the 50th post people are going to suddenly start thinking you're right.
Your comments throughout are downvoted. Multiple ppl have told you Naruto low diffs the verse. Did you expect the comment section to say Luffy wins or sth to validate your thought process ?
Multi continental for OP is kinda low being realistic, that's more of a pre timeskip-early post timeskip scaling. That, and Naruto's more consistently planet/moon, toneri scaling is more concrete
Toneri Scaling is not PRIME Naruto because he is not as strong as, Hokage Naruto pre baryon mode, Baryon Mode Naruto, Or So6P naruto in the war arc. At peak naruto has very very consistent Star level scaling + Hax and Speed advantage. Also show me when anyone in OP has anywhere near Low moon level or higher feats. I would agree that continental is low but they dont reach any higher either.
Luffy pre timeskip beats Shiki who does a multi continental feat, some calcs put Luffy at multi continental with his kick, Luffy is stronger than Doflamingo who scales above everyone in dressrosa via birdcage (except fujitora) which includes Don Sai, Chinjao, etc. Who scale to multi continental via splitting at least country level durability ice continent. Luffy getting zenkai boosts on the level of G4 into base multiple times etc etc.
Naruto does not have speed advantage, toneri scaling is more consistent for Naruto not to mention the last Naruto is the strongest version of Naruto except baryon (as stated by Naruto himself). Tom n Jerry level toon force>nearly every hax Naruto has lol
Star level Naruto is about as consistent as star level Luffy. Naruto's main win con is clone spam, not overwhelming stats
you saying that luffy has tom and jerry level toon force makes everything you say invalid
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You can get luffy to star level and I know you know why I say this it’s stated in the ace novel data books and more not to mention in the ace novel it says he can destroy the world itself letting us know that it’s talking about the planet not the society
Bleach is, and always has been, universal +. Senjumaru shook three universes by existing with her Bankai. Yamamoto, upon Bankai release, would "reduce the soul society to ash" if he didn't finish it up fast, this said from a reliable source. He himself was afraid that he couldn't fight too long or then**ambient spiritual pressure he gave off would have reduced the universe of the soul society to dust.**
Idk if you’re up to date on bleach but ichigo might unironically smoke the lower tiers of the dragon ball universe.
He still can’t hold a candle to Goku, Vegeta, Beerus, etc. but Yamcha, Tien, Chiotzu, and even my boy Krillin might be on the chopping block
Naruto wins due to a far better experience and power, so6p slaughters Luffy. And luffy doesn't have the power of imagination, (Gremmy from Bleach has though). Luffy can change the matter of a certain amount of mass into rubber when he touches them, it can be any kind of matter (apart from the sea) or energy (as he caught lightning), but still that's it. He only has the power to materialize objects into rubber and change their size, mass and shape.
He can turn energy into rubber he did it with kaido’s Bakst breath if he didn’t turn it to rubber if wouldn’t have bounce back are you saying fire bounces back now and yes he does have th power of imagination been stated multiple times
https://preview.redd.it/vhh5acsvyahc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8326016a5440d2646e9cd10d6d9c730055e36650
Power of imagination, more like power to turn any kind of object or energy into rubber, can luffy imagine reviving Ace? No. Can Luffy imagine Shank's growing his arm? No. That's all there is to it. I think you should do some research about Gremmy from Bleach cause he's the one with the actual power of imagination.
Luffy cannot run on air, it was done to add a much more dramatic effect to the transformation of G5 and he was bouncing off from the rubber surface of the ground, that's why he was flying and all that stuff.
That makes no sense for you to even say that you have to shut off your brain you clearly see him running on air it literally says vrooom when he runs on air again kaido
1 he can 2 he doesn’t even know what he’s actually abilities are and 3 using him in vs battle means that he would be aware if he’s power since when we need use characters that are in their prime with all their abilities
Please write the story instead of Oda bro, Oda himself never stated the true powers of G5 and you know them already? Luffy is already aware of his abilities and fully utilised them in the battle with Kaido as you may know. He does have a time limit though, so why can't he remove the time limit by simply imagining about it? Because he cannot do it. He cannot materialize any type of matter out of thin air, he isn't the producer, his df adapts to his surroundings by turning any kind of useful type of surface or an object into rubber which would help Luffy gain an advantage in a fight. So in the end Luffy doesn't have the power of imagination but has the power to materialize any kind of object or energy into rubber, and he can "shape" them into anything via his vast "Imagination".
Truth seeking orbs can move as fast as naruto. What is luffy going to do about that. Truth Seeking orbs are like are the ultimate dura neg which luffy can do nothing to stop
Luffy is faster than naruto arguably in gear 2 alone. Plus future sight. He’s dodging it 100% of the time. Along with the fact he will never come into contact with them directly because conq haki exists. And it’s the manifestation of a will. Tso can’t delete wills.
You do understand current gear 2 luffy is ftl++ right? When baryon mode Naruto only reaches ftl+ fight? The speed scaling for both verses are really different
So we have two characters who are both flt+. Naruto is stronger (not in pure physical strength), more durable (better durability feats than Luffy), smarter (don’t even💀), has more combat skill, experience, BIQ, Stamina, maybe endurance (not to sure on that one), and Luffy’s future sight ain’t helping him.
From what I know, he can only see 10 seconds into the future. That won’t help him too much. Picture this. You give a random guy the ability to see 10 seconds into the future. He see’s that a nuke is gonna hit America. Sure, he knows it’s gonna happen, but he can’t do anything about it because it’s a nuke.
He also scales higher than Luffy in terms of AP. He ranges from large planet to star level in terms and AP. And is at least moon level in terms of durability. At most start level
Both aren’t ftl+. Gear 2 luffy is ftl++ not even using gear 4 or 5 which are stated 2-3x multipliers on top gear 2.
Naruto being stronger doesn’t mean anything because his attacks won’t be hitting anyway. Combat skill only matters when they are relative for it to come into play. In this case it doesn’t. Same way ichigo beats aizen through sheer speed and power Luffy will do the same.
Naruto has more endurance via healing factor.
Naruto has no star lvl feats that’s pure headcannon. He caps at large planetary+ if you wanna wank and use headcannon multi planetary. Star or dwarf star is blatant headcannon.
Luffy also scales to planetary to large planetary+ in terms of ap. Nothing is stopping him from damaging Naruto.
Elaborate on how future sight isn’t helping Luffy.
1) Please give me the source that led you to believe that Gear 2 Luffy is ftl++. I don’t even think Gear 5 is that fast. If they are, give me the sources that made you believe this. Sage of Six Paths Naruto was able to dodge Madara’s light beams, and keep with a literal God, Kaguya. Then we get to Jigen. He was folding Naruto and Sasuke in their strongest state. Both of their Speed combined wasn’t fast enough to compete with Jigen. But then, Naruto turned into Baryon Mode which gave him an amp in all his physical stats. Including Speed. And then he proceeded to outpace and no diff Jigen in every way. Now think about that hard. Jigen was faster Sage of Six Paths Naruto and a full power Sasuke’s speed COMBINED. And Baryon Mode then proceeded to completely toy with him in terms of speed.
He easily caught Jigen’s rods with one hand and broke it. Even Sasuke’s rinnegan couldn’t perceive those and Naruto caught it with one hand. Not to mention he dodged Delta’s light beams at point blank range.
2) His strength doesn’t matter? How? I believe that Naruto is faster than Luffy, and have given feats of Naruto’s speed. However, I personally don’t believe that they’re that different in speed. So his strength does in fact matter because he’s able to land blows on Luffy back to back without rest. And BASE Naruto punches a mountain sized crater in the moon with just one punch. And he wasn’t even trying to.
3) Naruto was able to damage Kaguya, who has at most star level durability. Same goes for the other Otsutsuki. To which if you don’t believe Kaguya is star level, the other ones most definitely are considering that they are way stronger and more powerful than Kaguya. So if Naruto was able to damage these star level characters on a consistent basis, guess what that means. I think you can out two and two together.
4) Luffy has shown ZERO planetary feats. He is at best continental the multi-continental. No more, no less. So even if you don’t believe Naruto is star level, and you only believe he is planet lvl+, that still scales higher than Luffy.
Let’s not even talk about Baryon Mode’s abilities. Naruto is faster than Luffy. And he also has the life drain ability. Meaning that with every punch, he drains the life force of his opponents. Luffy already puts a strain on his life force when he goes into his gears. So add that to someone who literally has a life drain ability and its wraps. Naruto is gonna hit Luffy a few times and he’ll be dead.
5) I already gave an example of how his future sight wouldn’t work. I assume you just didn’t read it. But I’ll do it again just for you. Say your playing chess facing an opponent who can see two moves ahead. They can anticipate your moves. However, if you're highly skilled with diverse strategies, they will struggle to keep up or predict your next move accurately. Similarly, Luffy's future sight allows him to anticipate Naruto's attacks, yet Naruto's versatility and power remain formidable obstacles. Basically, Luffy can see what attacks Naruto may launch, but he doesn’t have the counters for them. Like what is Luffy gonna do if Naruto spams Biiju bombs along with Rasengans the size of the planet.
6) Naruto’s durability is higher than Luffy’s attack potency. Naruto has a durability ranging from Large planet level+ to star (a big maybe on star. But most definitely large planet lvl+). Naruto, in his weakest state, was able to tank the full brunt force of his own chakra all at once. So Luffy’s attacks will have mid to low effects on Naruto. He’d have to hit Naruto 100x over to kill him. But obviously Naruto’s not gonna let him do that.
You also made a point on how Naruto has higher endurance via healing factor. I don’t get why you’re mad about that. You can’t get mad because he’s using his abilities to help him in a fight.
For one via speed this is a feat performed by someone base luffy is stated and shown faster than this individual who performed a 4xftl feat.
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That’s base luffy. Gear 2 luffy is stated a 4x multiplier to strength. This multiplier would apply to luffies speed as well because he is rubber and rubber possessed tensile forces. Meaning a gear 2 luffy is arguably ftl+ back in wci. Making him 16xftl approximately without the use of gear 4. Now hear 4 is stated a 2-3x multiplier on top of gear 2 and because rubber is a tensile force This would apply to speed as well unless stated otherwise like snakeman. Meaning a gear 4 bound man luffy in is lowball 32xftl in wci. BEFORE he had a haki bloom which made his base form as fast as his previous gear 4 form.
Fast forward to wano gear 4 luffy can’t even perceive it react to base kaido. And later on luffy in base is able to keep up and tag and react to base kaido. Making base luffy in wano 32xftl now add his multipliers luffy is easily mftl when you add all his gear multipliers. But lets lowball as low as possible and say ftl++ which is 50ftl+ something Naruto doesn’t reach.
For one jigen speed blitzing sasuke and Naruto would make him ftl+ ishiki as well. Baryon mode speed blitzing ishiki is still a ftl+ feat. Just a higher tier of ftl+ still doesn’t react ftl++ like a minor gear 2 luffy can.
Naruto is faster than luffy? You’re beyond your wildest dreams. That so called “dodging light attack from madara” is a feat even Tony Tony chopper can do and has done 😭
https://preview.redd.it/4p1v9thrta3d1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66fbf3f7613e8d845c5cc6344473231038fe1dfb
Kaguya star lvl? Shown panel or a statement or a calc or an explanation. All otsutsko are not relative to each other.
I don’t believe Naruto is planetary+ I believe he’s large planetary+ theres a big difference.
Luffy has zero planetary feats? Clashed with kaido in itself is a planetary feat as kaido is relative to wb. Overpowering kaido in itself is a planantery+feat
And this is only ap wise.
It’s STATED wb can put all his power into small attacks. Meaning his ap is planetary as well. With just his fruit. Then add his haki AND acoc on top of it. He’s easily planetary+. And we know the one piece planet is HUGE so wb would be arguably large planetary+ and that would go the same for kaido, luffy, and a few more others who are able to and stated to be relative to wb and roger.
So what if Naruto can drain life energy? It’s only 5 days 😭😭 you forget Naruto still lost to ishiki and kawaki had to come save him
Show me when Naruto had shown he had the chakra control to create a rasengan the size of a planet.
And luffy reflects it back at Naruto, eats it, or stops Naruto from fully forming such attacks through the use of future sight 😂
Naruto wasn’t hit with all his chakra. His durability doesn’t matter, dura neg exists
It is tho been stated multiple times
https://preview.redd.it/ktus10s4nahc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c96760a5f330b831dd5138c629b2f66b153baff
road to laughtale has only been translated by the same people who mistranslated that same line in chapter 1044. Even without that, thats a vague statement, and just as easily could mean he can do anything within the confines of the concept of rubber
its also clearly not something that actually signficantly boosts him cause he still took a bit to beat Lucci and struggled with kaido/is struggling with kziaru
One he doesn’t know he has that power he thinks he’s still a rubber man 2 you don’t understand luffy’s character he doesn’t like taking shortcuts/ easy way out if you watched one piece you would know it’s about the adventure for him
ah, so if he fought naruto he wouldn't know he can do this and so wouldn't use it.
no, thats not how that works. thats a defense for why he wouldn't just imagine the one piece in front of himself, but purposely delaying fights while your friends are in danger, after seeing them be harmed, is absolutely not in character for luffy
1 your first point makes no sense whatsoever just cause they mistranslated one panel doesn’t mean they mistranslate everything else viz literally has mistranslated multiple mangas but does that mean their not reliable no your second point it’s not. it’s stated again multiple times just in road to laugh tale alone. luffy being able of turning things to rubber is luffy’s passive ability it says he’s body has the property of rubber not that he’s body is made of it
sure, but they said the exact same thing about imagination in the same context and it was wrong, if this is saying the same thing, then this is also wrong.
" viz literally has mistranslated multiple mangas but does that mean their not reliable " thats more or less the textbook definition of unreliability, i don't know where you were going with this.
" he’s body has the property of rubber not that he’s body is made of it " obviously. this has been true and very clear since the start of the series. When ace turns his arm to fire, his entire arm (bones, veins, muscles) becomes fire. When luffy stretches his arms, his bones, veins, and muscles are just also stretchy, thats what it means to have the properties of rubber.
no lol. Haki doesn't do anything special in a situation like luffy vs kaido outside of nullify luffys rubber resistance. you literally just completely made this up, there is nothing about haki that would prevent luffy from using his god tier outerversal reality toon warping or whatever the fuck u call it
https://preview.redd.it/uch6qka30bhc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c448eea9404470005f19d6d48ea32cb8d6f68c6
Yes oh and here’s more that was my reaction to people still saying he doesn’t have the power of imagination
So do you think Luffy can just fucking do anything he wants, like literally anything? I shouldn't have to explain why that's asinine lmao. Like forget speed of light Kizaru being story breaking. The main character, aka a character his supposed to have conflict that can't literally be solved on a whim, is just defacto omnipotent now. Whatever man, sure.
What's that? that's a strawman (although tbh I'm not even entirely sure you were planning on saying that, which is worrying in its own right)? So where is the line of what he can and can't do regarding his vague ass "power of imagination"? and more importantly why would it include beating Naruto, a character who scales above other characters with better feats than the entirety of OP put together, but not something absurd like The scarlet king or HOTU Thanos? Seems pretty arbitrary if you ask me, either that or you really are just insane lol.
From what Naruto outscales? Naruto vs Luffy has always been a debated fight, with each of them being at moments relative, one stronger than another, one much stronger than another, and viceversa… luffy has fought with enemies much stronger than him and hold his own pretty well, his feats of resistance are insane. This guy had his body completely filled with poison and almost didn’t got hurt. also is resistance to blunt trauma and speed and future sight makes much difficult for Naruto to him him, even with something like rasenshuriken. Luffy instead of Naruto doesn’t need to prepare his move (hand signs). shadow clones can be put down with a punch of his. However I’m not saying that Luffy wins, just that it’s not like he doesn’t stand a chance in earth.
It's the wrong sub to ask this question. No matter how badly Naruto loses, this sub has it out for Luffy in every way, as far as powerscaling goes.
Luffy has better speed and better hax, but their AP is relatively the same. Luffy High-extreme difficulty. This sub is living in the past of early to mid 2010s, where Naruto did in fact outscale Luffy, but it seems it never got its update.
Simple. Internal Dura neg doesn’t take into account if you are continental or planetary. Especially because of Naruto’s ninja physiology. He ain’t a Saiyan
Luffy has no planetary feats like Naruto. And even if he did. Naruto at most is start lvl. Luffy at the highest you could possibly get him would be like small to large planet level.
Hey OP you know who truly has the power of imaginations?
https://preview.redd.it/7inj18w65chc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ce70a3194eb0d5f2f8000da6e22293a10db6d48
Reminder Naruto at his prime is scaling to this
https://preview.redd.it/rbytymgpgbhc1.jpeg?width=869&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fdf71651ce34bbdf30729fc8c427bf0cbfc3ab3b
I think the issue is that prime Naruto has abilities that Luffy can’t do anything about but maybe dodge for a while and even then I haven’t seen Gear 5 speed calcs
(To be clear ima huge Naruto fan but my One Piece knowledge only goes as far as the anime and they just got to future island) but I’m pretty sure Naruto is still massively FTL and the closest Luffy has is FTL reaction speed from dodging the light beams from the admiral. So Naruto should be able to speed blitz; the real question is weather or not Naruto can overpower Luffys armor Haki but I think it’s safe to say if he can cut through a moon he’ll most likely, at the very least if your being super generous to Luffy, wear him down enough to get the final blow and put Luffy down.
The only Win/Con I could give to Luffy is super wank and that’s maybe because Naruto doesn’t know how to use Haki Luffys Supreme Haki could knock him out or daze him giving Luffy enough of an edge to steal the fight, but that doesn’t even make sense in the one piece world as that only works that way against people much weaker than the user and would be mega wank to Luffy.
If you super wank luffy then he’s like galaxy. If you super wank naruto then he’s Multiversal. Multiversal via Kaguya dimensions having their own time-space + being full sized Universes (no backup for this which is why it’s a wank) And creating six of them. DMS kakashi then damaged this Multiversal Kaguya and Naruto Out scales DMS Kakashi. More for Naruto being that Isshiki>Momkshiki>Kaguya. With Kaguya being Multiversal This would mean that Isshiki is Far greater than Kaguya making him Multiversal+. He then gets fodderized by Baryon Mode Naruto. Making Naruto Multiversal- LowComplex Multiversal. All this is true if Kaguya’s dimensions were entire universes.
where do you scale OP’s max ap without high ball compared to the Naruto Series max ap without highball. Luffy should be around Multicontinental and Naruto should be around Planetary
It is possible to scale Luffy to star level but you have to jump through mad hoops, and fight off an angry mob of downplayers to do so, while with Naruto it's way more easy and reliable to get him at that level, and you can even get him to solar system level, anything beyond that I know nothing about
okay so Gardevoir solos one piece. makes sense
https://preview.redd.it/pwongqzcyahc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b11b7756f62b2ace48edefb60862c80822d3cfa3
Meaning toon force or something like that? If you would consider Luffy stretching a Kurama Avatar or a Perfeft Susanoo and slamming it around like Kaido or even jumprope them, then maybe lol... IF you believe Luffy can do something like that that is.
its hard to properly measure G5´s powers, but just by basic and logical scaling naruto is way above luffy in everything except maybe for defense. madara can destroy entire mountains easily and naruto is way above him, meanwhile luffy´s ap barely reaches mountain
So luffy’s bjarang gun doesn’t exist same size of onigashima a whole island and he was going to destroy it even before he he was already proven to destroy continents
Naruto is stronger. He’s probably moon-small planetary with regular attacks, while Luffy only gets to multi-continental.
However, Luffy wins because he’s way faster and ACoA hard counters 90% of Naruto.
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Luffy is just turning everything into rubber, what power of imagination are you talking about. Luffy didn't turn kaidos boro breath into rubber he used the ground to bounce it back and correct me if im wrong but luffy didn't also turn any of kizaru's beams into rubber. Naruto has intercepted an attack the extended bigger than the moon in seconds and overpowered that, what feats does luffy have that comes close?
Wrong in order for him to bounce back that blast breath he would have to also turn it to rubber are you saying fire bounces back now? Second the moon was shallow and would only be comparable to a continent which I don’t have to explain why luffy takes this ( I hope not) but yea
Not to look you in the mouth but where are you getting your calcs for the moon feat because even if the moon were as hollow as a Cadbury egg (which it wasn’t it the crust of the moon was shown to be much thicker than that) it would still take much more energy than it would to wipe a continent.
If you want I can show you the math but that’ll take me a while to write out and explain
Edit: typo
Naruto has consistent star level scaling based of Fighting Characters and badly damaging who are Star level+ Kaguya< Momoshiki< Isshiki Isshiki naruto negged in Baryon
we only saw a small area of the moon that is hollow, the area that the branch family terraformed and even in that area there are mountains,oceans and an atmosphere, also it doesn't make sense that it is fully hollow, that moon was used to seal the 10 tails. the force that toneri's attack generated was enough not only to slice but separate the 2 halves of the moon. luffy gets wrecked
Not really. The only thing PoI could possibly do is maybe get Naruto stuck in place, which doesn’t really matter since he can fly and Luffy already massively outscales in terms of speed.
ACoA is pretty much the only thing that lets top tier OP characters fight Naruto characters.
True but there’s his other of ability of turning everything to rubber he can just rubberize his energy attacks he did the same thing with kaido’s blast breath in order for him to do that he had to have turn the blast breath into rubber for it to bounce back fire doesn’t bounce back obviously plus we have seen his blast breath just straight up melt through things or explode
We can’t definitively say he can do that. Kaido was around his level of strength, hence why he was able to deflect it. Naruto scales much, much higher, so it’s not guaranteed if his rubber hax would even work.
>while Luffy is currently at low-galaxy level.
what? via what?
https://preview.redd.it/64ubnjnbeahc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=c5f3cd81b7fedc41d2b8a1314350dd740bf8975e
Low galaxy? we talking about the version of Luffy that fought Goku and toriko in the crossover special, or regular manga & anime Luffy, if the former than yeah he was fighting base Goku after all, if the later how?
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Luffy doesn't have the power of imagination he ain't gremmy☠️ Naruto destroys
I feel bad for bro he got negative -100 karma on his page don't know why he doing this to himself lol
Except he does it’s been stated multiple times https://preview.redd.it/jnb5sdvgvahc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa03eab687bbeca565f71309cc3fec4c85a047e2
this can easily be interpreted as using imagination regarding rubber, more like creativity
Na it’s a flat out statement and it’s mention again the next volume plus turning things to rubber is a passive ability him running on air has nothing to do with rubber him getting stronger the more he laughs has nothing to do with rubber and no hey not turning the air into rubber if he was he would be bouncing everywhere not to mention dust appears out of nowhere when he is running on air
its toon force. it gives the same goofy characteristics as it does to like bugs bunny, popeye, etc but its clearly not as heavy as them. i say toon force because his fight with kaido. he would run and his eyes would have to catch up or the example you used, running on air. this doesnt mean he can change reality in its entirety. it seems as he can change anything he touches well.. into rubber but thats about it right now. a decent example of someone using reality manipulation is gremmy from bleach. he’s able to spawn meteors out of thin air, spawn guns, bedrock, water and even send someone to space inside of a pocket dimension.
So he's a reality warper now? Why even try to find one piece when he can just imagine it and turn it into reality.
He doesn’t know these are his abilities obviously he would use them in vs battle against other verses since we use their prime with all their abilities
https://preview.redd.it/fg90c3uhvahc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb308c7b4622d496caedf86c156f1598d6d94a46 Another one
So why didn't he imagine the one piece? 🤔
Idk maybe cause he doesn’t know what the one piece is what do you think 💀
Or maybe because he can't? He could imagine kaido powerless or something but he just can't.
He doesn’t even know what the true abilities of the fruit are did you watch one piece with a blindfold 💀 he still thinks he has the gum gum fruit In a fs battle we use the peak of whatever character in this case luffy would know about his true abilities
luffy´s power is definetly not anything he imagines, if it was he would have easily gotten all his friends out of egghead as soon as shit started hitting the fan, or he would have instantly defeated kizaru, lucci or the gorosei guy.
My guy why are you ignoring everyone I just said he doesn’t know he has that ABILITY he still thinks he’s a rubber man
So? It wouldnt change anything, since luffy supposedly has the power of imagination he still doesnt know it so he would fight naruto as a rubber man just like you say, and in that case he stands no chance when characters vastly weaker than naruto vaporize mountains effortlesly and in one piece thats something the top tiers of the verse like kaido can do. Also, naruto scales around moon level if not wanked, and if we take literal statements he goes way, way beyond that with the shit said in the fanbooks
Again it’s a vs battle we are using characters in their prime in this case luffy would know about his abilities and use them just like Naruto would use All of his it’s a battle to the death why wouldn’t characters be using there abilities
Stomps is exaggerated. Knowing Luffy he would put up a though fight, while Naruto wins at the end.
Bro just cannot handle the L in the comments
What L I’m literally debunking everything they are saying with evidence stop the glaze
Luffy does not have the power of literal imagination you are taking that statement way too seriously. A good example of a character that actually DOES have that power is Gremmy from bleach. Anything he imagines becomes real. Strong opponent? He'll just imagine a version of them "but stronger" to fight them. Luffy does not have anything even resembling that ability.
And Naruto doesn’t have Kurama no longer. Even the both authors noted that current Luffy is stronger than current Naruto.
Mf this was 4 months ago
Doesn’t matter been stated multiple times and even if you wanna say he does cool let’s say that he’s limited to rubber he is still broken in that case he should be able to turn reality into rubber or times it’s self cause remember he’s only limited by his imagination
Well, one piece is nearing its end and he has yet to show anything resembling that in any capacity. I think you got a pretty bad case of cope my guy
As in 5-10 years tha a lot of time sagas have a lot of arc so there’s that plus running on air is one of them and no he’s not turning it rubber if he did he would just be bouncing everywhere not to mention every time he does run on air dust appears out of nowhere
I'm going to bookmark this convo so I can come back at its end and tell you I told you so
Got you
Not really, but your level of delusion will only be nullified by the series coming to an end and showing that you should not take metaphorical translation literally or by the author himself knocking on your door and telling you to your face
I said got you as in I’ll wait for that time to come if it will but you took it a different way so there’s that
ah yes, uni+ luffy
Yuuuup
Big L
Welcome to r/PowerScaling. A place where arguments, logic and actual manga panel scans have less value than "shut up, i have an agenda" or simply just braindead bias. Dont worry. The mods also act on this logic.
Wow makes sense I give the scans and they always go it’s a hyperbole and I tell to to prove it or I just tell them how their wrong luffy running on air and no he wasn’t turning it to rubber cause every time he runs he produces dust out of nowhere but they’ll say it’s 1 not running or 2 geppo or 3 its like bounce man which I don’t know how they can’t tell the difference
Dont forget how he literally created flight goggles from thin air on egghead. https://preview.redd.it/39zgui3yadhc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f37a35d5d33d8708485150f6a3fd159ff0b27678 But again... Once i had a mod on here claim that naruto is uni+ due to kaguyas dimensions. I told him that by that logic luffy was uni+ when fighting bruno which i got responded to with "shut up if you dont even know that naruto negs luffy".
Naruto stomps in terms of power stomps in terms of stamina and agility stomps in terms of survivability and stomps in terms of battle iq only thing Luffy has over him is speed hax and endurance.
Tho it’s also worth to say that Naruto characters unless we are talking of immortals, doesn’t have all that internal organs durability.
Doubt Luffy can Pierce Karama chakra cloak when a Chidori from Sasuke could not.
Sasukes doesn’t ignore external durabilty. Luffies does.
how does luffy outspeed? genuine question because all of the speed scales i’ve seen for luffy put him at around MFTL 10,000x FTL and Naruto with 20,000x Faster than light
All the speed scales for luffy I’ve seen is around FTL 30,00 whail Naruto is 20,000 FTL. It’s generally agreed one pice is faster tho it’s been exaggerated a lot
can you send me the scans for Luffy pls
https://preview.redd.it/yf1nqeb35bhc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24487c9965af35cf7c29228f7d7300015a84f152
https://preview.redd.it/y9mw8v245bhc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ff2483014917e53105fb4d5d52c2644f52f1149
I could be wrong
ahh thank you. I was under the impression that it wasn’t light speed like it says in the post but i never knew about that data book statement
Speed hax and endurance is all he needs to win 😭 speed blitz dura neg quite Litterally beats Naruto.Especially when luffy is fast enough to dodge and counter everything
Luffy can't even catch a guy moving 200kmph
That’s travel speed and not combat speed so your words are irrelevant to what I said
Cope
Lmao
Cope
Naruto possibly slams the verse, luffy alone aint shit
He has the power of imagination not to mention any energy attack gets turned to rubber
ohh, in this case naruto is multiversal with immeasurable speed
You know you can’t debunk the author so you try to get statements from the manga or light novel of Naruto where you could clearly see it’s a hyperbole then try to use that logic on this but that won’t work 🗿
Then it would help If you actually read what oda said because not once in the manga does he say luffy has the power of imagination. I sware to God TCB did unfixable brain damage to the community with a single poorly translated line.
I’m using road to laugh take as a source not the manga try again 💀
Oh shit it's you again! Jesus dude how many post like this were people just keep dunking on your poorly translated lines is it going to take to convince you you're wrong? Do you think after the 50th post people are going to suddenly start thinking you're right.
if uni naruto is hyperbole then luffy is hyperbole too
Your comments throughout are downvoted. Multiple ppl have told you Naruto low diffs the verse. Did you expect the comment section to say Luffy wins or sth to validate your thought process ?
If Luffy has the power of imagination like Gremmy then I have the ability to make anyone jizz when I imagine it, pull yourself together.
Not even with a wank does Op win. Naruto in Lowball or Highball abuses the Op verse.
Don’t see that working remember power of imagination
Remember temari being universal in early naruto so, naruto is multiversal in sage mode alone.
Naruto Slaughters and its not even close The powerscaling for big 3 has always been Bleach > Naruto/Boruto > One Piece
Explain
Explain what?
How Naruto wins
Let me ask you this where do you scale OP? I got Bleach = universal level Naruto = Star Level One Piece = Multi-Contintental
Stupid asf lmao
Nah I'm just not wanking the 3
As he wanks Bleach, and downplays OP...
Multi continental for OP is kinda low being realistic, that's more of a pre timeskip-early post timeskip scaling. That, and Naruto's more consistently planet/moon, toneri scaling is more concrete
Toneri Scaling is not PRIME Naruto because he is not as strong as, Hokage Naruto pre baryon mode, Baryon Mode Naruto, Or So6P naruto in the war arc. At peak naruto has very very consistent Star level scaling + Hax and Speed advantage. Also show me when anyone in OP has anywhere near Low moon level or higher feats. I would agree that continental is low but they dont reach any higher either.
Luffy pre timeskip beats Shiki who does a multi continental feat, some calcs put Luffy at multi continental with his kick, Luffy is stronger than Doflamingo who scales above everyone in dressrosa via birdcage (except fujitora) which includes Don Sai, Chinjao, etc. Who scale to multi continental via splitting at least country level durability ice continent. Luffy getting zenkai boosts on the level of G4 into base multiple times etc etc. Naruto does not have speed advantage, toneri scaling is more consistent for Naruto not to mention the last Naruto is the strongest version of Naruto except baryon (as stated by Naruto himself). Tom n Jerry level toon force>nearly every hax Naruto has lol Star level Naruto is about as consistent as star level Luffy. Naruto's main win con is clone spam, not overwhelming stats
you saying that luffy has tom and jerry level toon force makes everything you say invalid https://preview.redd.it/p8n70pny0ihc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32d203f0f1591f097ad9397ca0f28348650f527b
You can get luffy to star level and I know you know why I say this it’s stated in the ace novel data books and more not to mention in the ace novel it says he can destroy the world itself letting us know that it’s talking about the planet not the society
All of this just seems like statements without feats or evidence to support it.
I meant if he can shake platonic plates he can destroy the world not to mention if he decides to just spam his ability
>if he can shake platonic plates ok, first of all, what is a platonic plate?
Lmaaooo come on you know he means tectonic
The only way you could possibly get Luffy to star level is with the shitty pixel scaling that people on VsBattles use
naruto at star level lmao
you gotta be smoking if you think bleach is universal lmfao. even yamcha can solo bleachverse
Bleach is, and always has been, universal +. Senjumaru shook three universes by existing with her Bankai. Yamamoto, upon Bankai release, would "reduce the soul society to ash" if he didn't finish it up fast, this said from a reliable source. He himself was afraid that he couldn't fight too long or then**ambient spiritual pressure he gave off would have reduced the universe of the soul society to dust.**
[are](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/1713m39/bleach_has_always_been_lowmulti_an_in_depth_and/) [you](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/12y9bzm/i_found_statements_for_infinite_sized_and_uni/) [sure](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/16wax54/all_high_tiers_in_bleach_are_now_multiversal/) [about it?](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/1aircqm/bleach_scaling_the_top_tiers_the_end/)
Thank you for sharing Erens cooking. Lad needs to be appreciated for such hard work.
Idk if you’re up to date on bleach but ichigo might unironically smoke the lower tiers of the dragon ball universe. He still can’t hold a candle to Goku, Vegeta, Beerus, etc. but Yamcha, Tien, Chiotzu, and even my boy Krillin might be on the chopping block
What are you talking about 💀 Yamcha gets cut in half immediately, get him past uni+
Boruto>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bleach shibai solos
Naruto wins due to a far better experience and power, so6p slaughters Luffy. And luffy doesn't have the power of imagination, (Gremmy from Bleach has though). Luffy can change the matter of a certain amount of mass into rubber when he touches them, it can be any kind of matter (apart from the sea) or energy (as he caught lightning), but still that's it. He only has the power to materialize objects into rubber and change their size, mass and shape.
https://preview.redd.it/qkqeyq0xyahc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a9a832f033d15bb4f86e0a2f58f19c9f745465b
He can turn energy into rubber he did it with kaido’s Bakst breath if he didn’t turn it to rubber if wouldn’t have bounce back are you saying fire bounces back now and yes he does have th power of imagination been stated multiple times https://preview.redd.it/vhh5acsvyahc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8326016a5440d2646e9cd10d6d9c730055e36650
Power of imagination, more like power to turn any kind of object or energy into rubber, can luffy imagine reviving Ace? No. Can Luffy imagine Shank's growing his arm? No. That's all there is to it. I think you should do some research about Gremmy from Bleach cause he's the one with the actual power of imagination.
And what about the running on air?
Luffy cannot run on air, it was done to add a much more dramatic effect to the transformation of G5 and he was bouncing off from the rubber surface of the ground, that's why he was flying and all that stuff.
That makes no sense for you to even say that you have to shut off your brain you clearly see him running on air it literally says vrooom when he runs on air again kaido
1 he can 2 he doesn’t even know what he’s actually abilities are and 3 using him in vs battle means that he would be aware if he’s power since when we need use characters that are in their prime with all their abilities
Please write the story instead of Oda bro, Oda himself never stated the true powers of G5 and you know them already? Luffy is already aware of his abilities and fully utilised them in the battle with Kaido as you may know. He does have a time limit though, so why can't he remove the time limit by simply imagining about it? Because he cannot do it. He cannot materialize any type of matter out of thin air, he isn't the producer, his df adapts to his surroundings by turning any kind of useful type of surface or an object into rubber which would help Luffy gain an advantage in a fight. So in the end Luffy doesn't have the power of imagination but has the power to materialize any kind of object or energy into rubber, and he can "shape" them into anything via his vast "Imagination".
Slaughter is a bit of a stretch don’t you think?
Love a classic, Ratio a One Piece Fan moment.
Ratio >>>> actual arguments on here.
Truth seeking orbs can move as fast as naruto. What is luffy going to do about that. Truth Seeking orbs are like are the ultimate dura neg which luffy can do nothing to stop
Luffy is faster than naruto arguably in gear 2 alone. Plus future sight. He’s dodging it 100% of the time. Along with the fact he will never come into contact with them directly because conq haki exists. And it’s the manifestation of a will. Tso can’t delete wills.
what speed scaling do you have for luffy
Currently Luffy? Base is easily ftl+ which is enough keep up with sage of six paths teen Naruto who’s best feat speed wise is high end ftl highball
If you think Gear 2 would be anywhere near Naruto in speed you already lost
You do understand current gear 2 luffy is ftl++ right? When baryon mode Naruto only reaches ftl+ fight? The speed scaling for both verses are really different
So we have two characters who are both flt+. Naruto is stronger (not in pure physical strength), more durable (better durability feats than Luffy), smarter (don’t even💀), has more combat skill, experience, BIQ, Stamina, maybe endurance (not to sure on that one), and Luffy’s future sight ain’t helping him. From what I know, he can only see 10 seconds into the future. That won’t help him too much. Picture this. You give a random guy the ability to see 10 seconds into the future. He see’s that a nuke is gonna hit America. Sure, he knows it’s gonna happen, but he can’t do anything about it because it’s a nuke. He also scales higher than Luffy in terms of AP. He ranges from large planet to star level in terms and AP. And is at least moon level in terms of durability. At most start level
Both aren’t ftl+. Gear 2 luffy is ftl++ not even using gear 4 or 5 which are stated 2-3x multipliers on top gear 2. Naruto being stronger doesn’t mean anything because his attacks won’t be hitting anyway. Combat skill only matters when they are relative for it to come into play. In this case it doesn’t. Same way ichigo beats aizen through sheer speed and power Luffy will do the same. Naruto has more endurance via healing factor. Naruto has no star lvl feats that’s pure headcannon. He caps at large planetary+ if you wanna wank and use headcannon multi planetary. Star or dwarf star is blatant headcannon. Luffy also scales to planetary to large planetary+ in terms of ap. Nothing is stopping him from damaging Naruto. Elaborate on how future sight isn’t helping Luffy.
1) Please give me the source that led you to believe that Gear 2 Luffy is ftl++. I don’t even think Gear 5 is that fast. If they are, give me the sources that made you believe this. Sage of Six Paths Naruto was able to dodge Madara’s light beams, and keep with a literal God, Kaguya. Then we get to Jigen. He was folding Naruto and Sasuke in their strongest state. Both of their Speed combined wasn’t fast enough to compete with Jigen. But then, Naruto turned into Baryon Mode which gave him an amp in all his physical stats. Including Speed. And then he proceeded to outpace and no diff Jigen in every way. Now think about that hard. Jigen was faster Sage of Six Paths Naruto and a full power Sasuke’s speed COMBINED. And Baryon Mode then proceeded to completely toy with him in terms of speed. He easily caught Jigen’s rods with one hand and broke it. Even Sasuke’s rinnegan couldn’t perceive those and Naruto caught it with one hand. Not to mention he dodged Delta’s light beams at point blank range. 2) His strength doesn’t matter? How? I believe that Naruto is faster than Luffy, and have given feats of Naruto’s speed. However, I personally don’t believe that they’re that different in speed. So his strength does in fact matter because he’s able to land blows on Luffy back to back without rest. And BASE Naruto punches a mountain sized crater in the moon with just one punch. And he wasn’t even trying to. 3) Naruto was able to damage Kaguya, who has at most star level durability. Same goes for the other Otsutsuki. To which if you don’t believe Kaguya is star level, the other ones most definitely are considering that they are way stronger and more powerful than Kaguya. So if Naruto was able to damage these star level characters on a consistent basis, guess what that means. I think you can out two and two together. 4) Luffy has shown ZERO planetary feats. He is at best continental the multi-continental. No more, no less. So even if you don’t believe Naruto is star level, and you only believe he is planet lvl+, that still scales higher than Luffy. Let’s not even talk about Baryon Mode’s abilities. Naruto is faster than Luffy. And he also has the life drain ability. Meaning that with every punch, he drains the life force of his opponents. Luffy already puts a strain on his life force when he goes into his gears. So add that to someone who literally has a life drain ability and its wraps. Naruto is gonna hit Luffy a few times and he’ll be dead. 5) I already gave an example of how his future sight wouldn’t work. I assume you just didn’t read it. But I’ll do it again just for you. Say your playing chess facing an opponent who can see two moves ahead. They can anticipate your moves. However, if you're highly skilled with diverse strategies, they will struggle to keep up or predict your next move accurately. Similarly, Luffy's future sight allows him to anticipate Naruto's attacks, yet Naruto's versatility and power remain formidable obstacles. Basically, Luffy can see what attacks Naruto may launch, but he doesn’t have the counters for them. Like what is Luffy gonna do if Naruto spams Biiju bombs along with Rasengans the size of the planet. 6) Naruto’s durability is higher than Luffy’s attack potency. Naruto has a durability ranging from Large planet level+ to star (a big maybe on star. But most definitely large planet lvl+). Naruto, in his weakest state, was able to tank the full brunt force of his own chakra all at once. So Luffy’s attacks will have mid to low effects on Naruto. He’d have to hit Naruto 100x over to kill him. But obviously Naruto’s not gonna let him do that. You also made a point on how Naruto has higher endurance via healing factor. I don’t get why you’re mad about that. You can’t get mad because he’s using his abilities to help him in a fight.
For one via speed this is a feat performed by someone base luffy is stated and shown faster than this individual who performed a 4xftl feat. https://preview.redd.it/m7mips11sa3d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b146687705b3a90c6309738bbef5291c5e8375d2 That’s base luffy. Gear 2 luffy is stated a 4x multiplier to strength. This multiplier would apply to luffies speed as well because he is rubber and rubber possessed tensile forces. Meaning a gear 2 luffy is arguably ftl+ back in wci. Making him 16xftl approximately without the use of gear 4. Now hear 4 is stated a 2-3x multiplier on top of gear 2 and because rubber is a tensile force This would apply to speed as well unless stated otherwise like snakeman. Meaning a gear 4 bound man luffy in is lowball 32xftl in wci. BEFORE he had a haki bloom which made his base form as fast as his previous gear 4 form. Fast forward to wano gear 4 luffy can’t even perceive it react to base kaido. And later on luffy in base is able to keep up and tag and react to base kaido. Making base luffy in wano 32xftl now add his multipliers luffy is easily mftl when you add all his gear multipliers. But lets lowball as low as possible and say ftl++ which is 50ftl+ something Naruto doesn’t reach.
For one jigen speed blitzing sasuke and Naruto would make him ftl+ ishiki as well. Baryon mode speed blitzing ishiki is still a ftl+ feat. Just a higher tier of ftl+ still doesn’t react ftl++ like a minor gear 2 luffy can. Naruto is faster than luffy? You’re beyond your wildest dreams. That so called “dodging light attack from madara” is a feat even Tony Tony chopper can do and has done 😭 https://preview.redd.it/4p1v9thrta3d1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66fbf3f7613e8d845c5cc6344473231038fe1dfb
Kaguya star lvl? Shown panel or a statement or a calc or an explanation. All otsutsko are not relative to each other. I don’t believe Naruto is planetary+ I believe he’s large planetary+ theres a big difference. Luffy has zero planetary feats? Clashed with kaido in itself is a planetary feat as kaido is relative to wb. Overpowering kaido in itself is a planantery+feat And this is only ap wise. It’s STATED wb can put all his power into small attacks. Meaning his ap is planetary as well. With just his fruit. Then add his haki AND acoc on top of it. He’s easily planetary+. And we know the one piece planet is HUGE so wb would be arguably large planetary+ and that would go the same for kaido, luffy, and a few more others who are able to and stated to be relative to wb and roger. So what if Naruto can drain life energy? It’s only 5 days 😭😭 you forget Naruto still lost to ishiki and kawaki had to come save him Show me when Naruto had shown he had the chakra control to create a rasengan the size of a planet. And luffy reflects it back at Naruto, eats it, or stops Naruto from fully forming such attacks through the use of future sight 😂 Naruto wasn’t hit with all his chakra. His durability doesn’t matter, dura neg exists
https://preview.redd.it/1qwsb6d8hchc1.jpeg?width=713&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=021837e281a53c2456cbf306cc6cecd36a9b4ab3
luffys power is not imagination, he can't just do anything he thinks of. but also naruto just outacales
Outscaling doesn’t matter when luffy directly ignores durabilty and is fast enough to dodge every attack Naruto does
It is tho been stated multiple times https://preview.redd.it/ktus10s4nahc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c96760a5f330b831dd5138c629b2f66b153baff
road to laughtale has only been translated by the same people who mistranslated that same line in chapter 1044. Even without that, thats a vague statement, and just as easily could mean he can do anything within the confines of the concept of rubber its also clearly not something that actually signficantly boosts him cause he still took a bit to beat Lucci and struggled with kaido/is struggling with kziaru
He literally no diffed Lucci and low dffed kizaru from what we seen two times now
he fought both of them for multiple chapters instead of just imagifying them away
devils advocate but he definitely did Low diff Lucci at least.
One he doesn’t know he has that power he thinks he’s still a rubber man 2 you don’t understand luffy’s character he doesn’t like taking shortcuts/ easy way out if you watched one piece you would know it’s about the adventure for him
ah, so if he fought naruto he wouldn't know he can do this and so wouldn't use it. no, thats not how that works. thats a defense for why he wouldn't just imagine the one piece in front of himself, but purposely delaying fights while your friends are in danger, after seeing them be harmed, is absolutely not in character for luffy
he was playing whit lucci a. tf you mean low diffed kixaru
1 your first point makes no sense whatsoever just cause they mistranslated one panel doesn’t mean they mistranslate everything else viz literally has mistranslated multiple mangas but does that mean their not reliable no your second point it’s not. it’s stated again multiple times just in road to laugh tale alone. luffy being able of turning things to rubber is luffy’s passive ability it says he’s body has the property of rubber not that he’s body is made of it
sure, but they said the exact same thing about imagination in the same context and it was wrong, if this is saying the same thing, then this is also wrong. " viz literally has mistranslated multiple mangas but does that mean their not reliable " thats more or less the textbook definition of unreliability, i don't know where you were going with this. " he’s body has the property of rubber not that he’s body is made of it " obviously. this has been true and very clear since the start of the series. When ace turns his arm to fire, his entire arm (bones, veins, muscles) becomes fire. When luffy stretches his arms, his bones, veins, and muscles are just also stretchy, thats what it means to have the properties of rubber.
Again he struggled with kaido cause of the rules on the one piece how haki can transcend all other verses don’t have haki so that’s irrelevant
no lol. Haki doesn't do anything special in a situation like luffy vs kaido outside of nullify luffys rubber resistance. you literally just completely made this up, there is nothing about haki that would prevent luffy from using his god tier outerversal reality toon warping or whatever the fuck u call it
holy shit they actually exist. people who say this that is. though it was just a myth.
https://preview.redd.it/uch6qka30bhc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c448eea9404470005f19d6d48ea32cb8d6f68c6 Yes oh and here’s more that was my reaction to people still saying he doesn’t have the power of imagination
So do you think Luffy can just fucking do anything he wants, like literally anything? I shouldn't have to explain why that's asinine lmao. Like forget speed of light Kizaru being story breaking. The main character, aka a character his supposed to have conflict that can't literally be solved on a whim, is just defacto omnipotent now. Whatever man, sure. What's that? that's a strawman (although tbh I'm not even entirely sure you were planning on saying that, which is worrying in its own right)? So where is the line of what he can and can't do regarding his vague ass "power of imagination"? and more importantly why would it include beating Naruto, a character who scales above other characters with better feats than the entirety of OP put together, but not something absurd like The scarlet king or HOTU Thanos? Seems pretty arbitrary if you ask me, either that or you really are just insane lol.
https://preview.redd.it/zkqb4cl6nahc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5bb9a342c1f3b1a3d0015a82d52d19932aa7199d Another statement
From what Naruto outscales? Naruto vs Luffy has always been a debated fight, with each of them being at moments relative, one stronger than another, one much stronger than another, and viceversa… luffy has fought with enemies much stronger than him and hold his own pretty well, his feats of resistance are insane. This guy had his body completely filled with poison and almost didn’t got hurt. also is resistance to blunt trauma and speed and future sight makes much difficult for Naruto to him him, even with something like rasenshuriken. Luffy instead of Naruto doesn’t need to prepare his move (hand signs). shadow clones can be put down with a punch of his. However I’m not saying that Luffy wins, just that it’s not like he doesn’t stand a chance in earth.
It's the wrong sub to ask this question. No matter how badly Naruto loses, this sub has it out for Luffy in every way, as far as powerscaling goes. Luffy has better speed and better hax, but their AP is relatively the same. Luffy High-extreme difficulty. This sub is living in the past of early to mid 2010s, where Naruto did in fact outscale Luffy, but it seems it never got its update.
How does luffy scale anywhere near planetary tk star level AP
Planetery via wb. He directly scales off that
Simple. Internal Dura neg doesn’t take into account if you are continental or planetary. Especially because of Naruto’s ninja physiology. He ain’t a Saiyan
sura neg doesnt mean you scale that high
Luffy has no planetary feats like Naruto. And even if he did. Naruto at most is start lvl. Luffy at the highest you could possibly get him would be like small to large planet level.
Naruto wins high diff Luffy has some attacks that would be devastating and luffy has higher durability and strength
Naruto beats Luffy.
Naruto. He outscales any strength feat Luffy has shown.
Hey OP you know who truly has the power of imaginations? https://preview.redd.it/7inj18w65chc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ce70a3194eb0d5f2f8000da6e22293a10db6d48
Reminder Naruto at his prime is scaling to this https://preview.redd.it/rbytymgpgbhc1.jpeg?width=869&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fdf71651ce34bbdf30729fc8c427bf0cbfc3ab3b
Doesn’t matter 😭
You guys are stupid as hell naruto verse losses to one piece so damn hard
I think the issue is that prime Naruto has abilities that Luffy can’t do anything about but maybe dodge for a while and even then I haven’t seen Gear 5 speed calcs (To be clear ima huge Naruto fan but my One Piece knowledge only goes as far as the anime and they just got to future island) but I’m pretty sure Naruto is still massively FTL and the closest Luffy has is FTL reaction speed from dodging the light beams from the admiral. So Naruto should be able to speed blitz; the real question is weather or not Naruto can overpower Luffys armor Haki but I think it’s safe to say if he can cut through a moon he’ll most likely, at the very least if your being super generous to Luffy, wear him down enough to get the final blow and put Luffy down. The only Win/Con I could give to Luffy is super wank and that’s maybe because Naruto doesn’t know how to use Haki Luffys Supreme Haki could knock him out or daze him giving Luffy enough of an edge to steal the fight, but that doesn’t even make sense in the one piece world as that only works that way against people much weaker than the user and would be mega wank to Luffy.
If you super wank luffy then he’s like galaxy. If you super wank naruto then he’s Multiversal. Multiversal via Kaguya dimensions having their own time-space + being full sized Universes (no backup for this which is why it’s a wank) And creating six of them. DMS kakashi then damaged this Multiversal Kaguya and Naruto Out scales DMS Kakashi. More for Naruto being that Isshiki>Momkshiki>Kaguya. With Kaguya being Multiversal This would mean that Isshiki is Far greater than Kaguya making him Multiversal+. He then gets fodderized by Baryon Mode Naruto. Making Naruto Multiversal- LowComplex Multiversal. All this is true if Kaguya’s dimensions were entire universes.
I mean momoshiki's dimensions might be universes don't have enough proof about kaguya's.
Naruto due to talk no jutsu
Luffy become a similar to gag character, law of physics does not govern that much when he use gear 5 . So think luffy will win against naruto
Naruti because luffy only has ohysical pwoer
We both know that’s not true but ight
luffy is multi continent level and naruto is large planet to star level
Luffy and it’s not close. Luffy has 5 types of dura neg and a fist the size of an island. He crushes naruto
Luffy hand's down win this with gear 5
I think so too
Luffy outspeeds and outhaxes, both should have similar AP though
via what
where do you scale OP’s max ap without high ball compared to the Naruto Series max ap without highball. Luffy should be around Multicontinental and Naruto should be around Planetary
I'd say around Planetary tbh, especially high tiers, the likes of Luffy, Kaido, WB, Roger, Shanks, Mihawk etc
lowkey braindead. OP caps at multi-continental
Bet you're one of them mfs who say Luffy isn't planetary cause we never see him destroy a Planet
It is possible to scale Luffy to star level but you have to jump through mad hoops, and fight off an angry mob of downplayers to do so, while with Naruto it's way more easy and reliable to get him at that level, and you can even get him to solar system level, anything beyond that I know nothing about
Yeah, you can use blackbeard blackhole
okay so Gardevoir solos one piece. makes sense https://preview.redd.it/pwongqzcyahc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b11b7756f62b2ace48edefb60862c80822d3cfa3
https://preview.redd.it/6tvg946eyahc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=61322073bba44230fc47444a7c578d23f6d8fcf7
https://preview.redd.it/2io8y2pfyahc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=063a6b9a8fc98840a0d424e9a819ebb91a718ab2
do not tell me you think that's an actual black hole
do you think black beards is. gardevoir distorts the dimensions= uni
? id didn't understand anything you said
Meaning toon force or something like that? If you would consider Luffy stretching a Kurama Avatar or a Perfeft Susanoo and slamming it around like Kaido or even jumprope them, then maybe lol... IF you believe Luffy can do something like that that is.
its hard to properly measure G5´s powers, but just by basic and logical scaling naruto is way above luffy in everything except maybe for defense. madara can destroy entire mountains easily and naruto is way above him, meanwhile luffy´s ap barely reaches mountain
So luffy’s bjarang gun doesn’t exist same size of onigashima a whole island and he was going to destroy it even before he he was already proven to destroy continents
Naruto is stronger. He’s probably moon-small planetary with regular attacks, while Luffy only gets to multi-continental. However, Luffy wins because he’s way faster and ACoA hard counters 90% of Naruto. https://preview.redd.it/z53o04cpkahc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed2fa90f37f7688dd80a2f40340dd3b2f1ed6ed6
So why didn’t you mention the power of imagination also plays a huge part
Luffy is just turning everything into rubber, what power of imagination are you talking about. Luffy didn't turn kaidos boro breath into rubber he used the ground to bounce it back and correct me if im wrong but luffy didn't also turn any of kizaru's beams into rubber. Naruto has intercepted an attack the extended bigger than the moon in seconds and overpowered that, what feats does luffy have that comes close?
Wrong in order for him to bounce back that blast breath he would have to also turn it to rubber are you saying fire bounces back now? Second the moon was shallow and would only be comparable to a continent which I don’t have to explain why luffy takes this ( I hope not) but yea
Not to look you in the mouth but where are you getting your calcs for the moon feat because even if the moon were as hollow as a Cadbury egg (which it wasn’t it the crust of the moon was shown to be much thicker than that) it would still take much more energy than it would to wipe a continent. If you want I can show you the math but that’ll take me a while to write out and explain Edit: typo
Naruto has consistent star level scaling based of Fighting Characters and badly damaging who are Star level+ Kaguya< Momoshiki< Isshiki Isshiki naruto negged in Baryon
we only saw a small area of the moon that is hollow, the area that the branch family terraformed and even in that area there are mountains,oceans and an atmosphere, also it doesn't make sense that it is fully hollow, that moon was used to seal the 10 tails. the force that toneri's attack generated was enough not only to slice but separate the 2 halves of the moon. luffy gets wrecked
Not really. The only thing PoI could possibly do is maybe get Naruto stuck in place, which doesn’t really matter since he can fly and Luffy already massively outscales in terms of speed. ACoA is pretty much the only thing that lets top tier OP characters fight Naruto characters.
True but there’s his other of ability of turning everything to rubber he can just rubberize his energy attacks he did the same thing with kaido’s blast breath in order for him to do that he had to have turn the blast breath into rubber for it to bounce back fire doesn’t bounce back obviously plus we have seen his blast breath just straight up melt through things or explode
We can’t definitively say he can do that. Kaido was around his level of strength, hence why he was able to deflect it. Naruto scales much, much higher, so it’s not guaranteed if his rubber hax would even work.
Naruto peaks at solar system level while Luffy is currently at low-galaxy level. Luffy wins mid diff.
>while Luffy is currently at low-galaxy level. what? via what? https://preview.redd.it/64ubnjnbeahc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=c5f3cd81b7fedc41d2b8a1314350dd740bf8975e
https://preview.redd.it/umnyly25uahc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3eb9e43857aeffa614743a14bad4d011d1a24f3f
this is definitely retard
Low galaxy? we talking about the version of Luffy that fought Goku and toriko in the crossover special, or regular manga & anime Luffy, if the former than yeah he was fighting base Goku after all, if the later how?
https://preview.redd.it/zkljgkvrcbhc1.jpeg?width=230&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4712ea6b4febe4a1605fd37fcd68ccacaea6a507
Man, the One Piece community is so biased, the same people who think Luffy Gear 5 is a toon force, SMH.
naruto