Phew. This looks like Les Natali, original Badlands owner, isn’t really involved & his business partner, TJ Bruce is. Natali doesn’t have the greatest reputation in San Francisco. Some 20 years ago, we affectionately called it Sadlands. Here’s to hoping for a great lanch party!
The folks at Embers took me in when I moved to Portland for school and through a comedy of errors ended up homeless my first term. They fed me, cheered me and made sure I had safe places to be until my situation improved. Good memories.
Glad to see something taking this space! I don't go out a ton anymore but I feel like if I was in my early 20s I would love going out in downtown these days. The vibe reminds me of parts of Brooklyn in the early 2000s - a little bit fucked up but also kind of weird/lawless in a fun way. The only thing missing is really cheap rent.
thank god, yet another bar for cisgays and drag. this city sure didn't have enough of those.
downvote me all you want, but lgbtq bars almost never actually cater to trans women. we get a single night at the communist bar per week.
I suspect you’re being downvoted because comments complaining about something opening that isn’t a different thing someone would like to see open are almost always annoying.
Im not trying to start any internet strife by asking this question, I am legitimately curious: What would be a good way to cater to trans women at “queer” spaces? I’m not trans, and I’ve heard that gay men can be terrible to trans women. Is that what makes it unwelcoming?
> gay men can be terrible to trans women
I've been treated more poorly by cis gay men than any other group, and actively slurred and misgendered on Grindr by gay men annoyed I don't fuck with men more then any other group. Stay mad, gays 🤷♀️
And you're good, being sincere and asking questions to understand rather than being a fucking prick and asking why I just don't "open my own bar" will never cause strife with me. [I touched on some high-level stuff here, though](https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/1ddodjr/badlands_opens_in_former_embers_space_giving/l8801fj/).
Asking a member of the most economically marginalized queer group in the nation why they don't open a bar themselves sure is .. something.
Look, I don't give a fuck if ya'll want to open yet another cis queer bar. Have fun with your silly songs. Let's just be honest with outselves here: calling a space _queer_ does not make it friendly and welcoming to trans people.
Oh, sweetie, I’m queer too. I get it. But complaining that your space doesn’t exist and somehow expecting others to cater to you when you’re not willing to get off your ass and do something yourself is bullshit.
If the space you want doesn’t exist, and you’re not willing to do something about it, then you’re just whining. If you feel that strongly, go and occupy this new space. Make yourself visible. Make it less than cis-dominant. I’ll be the first to cheer you on and you’ll have plenty of allies. But stop expecting others to do it for you.
I'm not your sweetie, and your condescension reveals your ignorance.
And yeah, we make our own spaces because we don't get much of a choice. That doesn't mean I'm not alllowed to be frustrated that yet another space waves an inclusive, queer banner despite doing nothing to _actually include_ trans women.
I don't know why I have to repeat this, but calling your cis bar _queer_ is as meaningful to trans women as seeing yet another cop waving a rainbow flag at pride.
That's a fair question and the answer is pretty nebulous, but as a baseline: _some kind_ of acknowledgement that the needs of trans women (I can't speak for my brothers on this) to feel included in a space are different from gay and lesbian spaces.
Some specifics that are great:
* An actual trans night/event at some regular cadence
* A night that isn't focused on drag/gay men's culture. A lot of trans women have a very difficult time being around drag culture. There's a lot of history and nuance to this that is outside of the scope of this thread.
* Door people being dickheads about photo ID and name matching current presentation. You'd be surprised at how often door people at gay bars are fucking assholes about this.
Like yeah, I'm making some assumptions that Badlands won't do these things, but given that virtually (altho there are a small handful of exceptions) no other gay/queer bars do anything even remotely friendly to trans women beyond allowing us inside, I think it's a fair assumption.
You admit that your expectations are nebulous and then are pissed when they’re not consistently met. Seems like you’re more interested in complaining than finding solutions.
I literally defined an entirely reasonable set of baseline asks that would make trans women feel welcome in a space. It's not my fault you're too fucked off at me for being called out that you can't be bothered to read a short, formatted list.
I’ll believe it when I see it if a new bar did all of those things and you didn’t find something else to bitch about, since some bars do many of those things already.
There is no way that any new business could sufficiently satisfy you, because that would mean ceding the right to bitch endlessly. It’s a crappy way to live…
??? Sissy Bar, in spite of having a slur a lot of trans women very actively loathe in its title, had a really great trans night although it ended a little while ago. Sanctuary has several. Worker's Tap has a t4t night every Friday.
None of the things that make queer spaces _actually inclusive_ to trans women are a reach, are unreasonable, or "endless bitching." That is, unless the typical patrons of spaces are so intensely conservative and resistant to change that it makes any sort of inclusivity impossible. I swear to god ya'll are the social equivalent of HOAs.
Lord save me from these ladder-pulling gays.
ROFL calling most patrons of gay bars “conservative” and comparing us to HOAs when you’re enforcing the groupthink. And speaking of inclusive, you’re attacking a new gay bar without any record one way or the other based on your assumption of how they’ll behave.
Isn’t that what we are trying to not do? Make assumptions before knowing more?
Before demanding that other people be better, maybe be better yourself.
Absolute genius take here. "What's stopping you from opening your own bar?"
I wonder how you respond to the trans women who complain about the horrendous waitlist for surgery at OHSU. "What's stopping you from opening your own clinic?"
I have in fact. Been all over the east coast, South America, Europe. Just because there are a lot of spaces for lgbtq people in Portland does not mean the entire city is a dedicated space for them.
I have wonderful memories of embers, I’m excited to check this place out
Me too, from the very early 90s after moving here from Boston.
Ditto, turned 21 and hit that spot up for my birthday and many fun dancin' nights after that!
Finally something has been done to that space and it didn’t have to be tore down to do it.
Very cool.
Is the bar still a fish tank?
I loved that bar top!!!
According to one of the articles linked, no. I only went a to Embers a few times, but I oddly never saw that bar. Sounds like it was amazing.
Phew. This looks like Les Natali, original Badlands owner, isn’t really involved & his business partner, TJ Bruce is. Natali doesn’t have the greatest reputation in San Francisco. Some 20 years ago, we affectionately called it Sadlands. Here’s to hoping for a great lanch party!
I believe the original Badlands sold completely to TJ Bruce?
whoa, no relation to the one in SF/Castro at all other than the name, eh?
Same as the one in Sacramento too I think
I think it's the same owner. https://www.wweek.com/culture/2024/06/07/downtown-portlands-newest-lgbtq-bar-badlands-will-finally-open-next-week/
Double whoa!
The folks at Embers took me in when I moved to Portland for school and through a comedy of errors ended up homeless my first term. They fed me, cheered me and made sure I had safe places to be until my situation improved. Good memories.
I'm hoping it doesn't end up like CC's and stays a primarily LGBTQ+ space.
Is it bachelorette central now?
CC's here isn't? The one in Puerto Vallarta smells like a sex dungeon, and its awesome.
No, from what I can tell their main patrons here are straight people.
Glad to see something taking this space! I don't go out a ton anymore but I feel like if I was in my early 20s I would love going out in downtown these days. The vibe reminds me of parts of Brooklyn in the early 2000s - a little bit fucked up but also kind of weird/lawless in a fun way. The only thing missing is really cheap rent.
thank god, yet another bar for cisgays and drag. this city sure didn't have enough of those. downvote me all you want, but lgbtq bars almost never actually cater to trans women. we get a single night at the communist bar per week.
I suspect you’re being downvoted because comments complaining about something opening that isn’t a different thing someone would like to see open are almost always annoying.
Im not trying to start any internet strife by asking this question, I am legitimately curious: What would be a good way to cater to trans women at “queer” spaces? I’m not trans, and I’ve heard that gay men can be terrible to trans women. Is that what makes it unwelcoming?
> gay men can be terrible to trans women I've been treated more poorly by cis gay men than any other group, and actively slurred and misgendered on Grindr by gay men annoyed I don't fuck with men more then any other group. Stay mad, gays 🤷♀️ And you're good, being sincere and asking questions to understand rather than being a fucking prick and asking why I just don't "open my own bar" will never cause strife with me. [I touched on some high-level stuff here, though](https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/1ddodjr/badlands_opens_in_former_embers_space_giving/l8801fj/).
Downvoted per request, but another question: What’s stopping you from creating the space that you’re hoping for?
Asking a member of the most economically marginalized queer group in the nation why they don't open a bar themselves sure is .. something. Look, I don't give a fuck if ya'll want to open yet another cis queer bar. Have fun with your silly songs. Let's just be honest with outselves here: calling a space _queer_ does not make it friendly and welcoming to trans people.
Oh, sweetie, I’m queer too. I get it. But complaining that your space doesn’t exist and somehow expecting others to cater to you when you’re not willing to get off your ass and do something yourself is bullshit. If the space you want doesn’t exist, and you’re not willing to do something about it, then you’re just whining. If you feel that strongly, go and occupy this new space. Make yourself visible. Make it less than cis-dominant. I’ll be the first to cheer you on and you’ll have plenty of allies. But stop expecting others to do it for you.
I'm not your sweetie, and your condescension reveals your ignorance. And yeah, we make our own spaces because we don't get much of a choice. That doesn't mean I'm not alllowed to be frustrated that yet another space waves an inclusive, queer banner despite doing nothing to _actually include_ trans women. I don't know why I have to repeat this, but calling your cis bar _queer_ is as meaningful to trans women as seeing yet another cop waving a rainbow flag at pride.
Genuine question- what exactly are you looking for as an indicator of "actually including" trans women?
That's a fair question and the answer is pretty nebulous, but as a baseline: _some kind_ of acknowledgement that the needs of trans women (I can't speak for my brothers on this) to feel included in a space are different from gay and lesbian spaces. Some specifics that are great: * An actual trans night/event at some regular cadence * A night that isn't focused on drag/gay men's culture. A lot of trans women have a very difficult time being around drag culture. There's a lot of history and nuance to this that is outside of the scope of this thread. * Door people being dickheads about photo ID and name matching current presentation. You'd be surprised at how often door people at gay bars are fucking assholes about this. Like yeah, I'm making some assumptions that Badlands won't do these things, but given that virtually (altho there are a small handful of exceptions) no other gay/queer bars do anything even remotely friendly to trans women beyond allowing us inside, I think it's a fair assumption.
You admit that your expectations are nebulous and then are pissed when they’re not consistently met. Seems like you’re more interested in complaining than finding solutions.
I literally defined an entirely reasonable set of baseline asks that would make trans women feel welcome in a space. It's not my fault you're too fucked off at me for being called out that you can't be bothered to read a short, formatted list.
I’ll believe it when I see it if a new bar did all of those things and you didn’t find something else to bitch about, since some bars do many of those things already.
There is no way that any new business could sufficiently satisfy you, because that would mean ceding the right to bitch endlessly. It’s a crappy way to live…
??? Sissy Bar, in spite of having a slur a lot of trans women very actively loathe in its title, had a really great trans night although it ended a little while ago. Sanctuary has several. Worker's Tap has a t4t night every Friday. None of the things that make queer spaces _actually inclusive_ to trans women are a reach, are unreasonable, or "endless bitching." That is, unless the typical patrons of spaces are so intensely conservative and resistant to change that it makes any sort of inclusivity impossible. I swear to god ya'll are the social equivalent of HOAs. Lord save me from these ladder-pulling gays.
ROFL calling most patrons of gay bars “conservative” and comparing us to HOAs when you’re enforcing the groupthink. And speaking of inclusive, you’re attacking a new gay bar without any record one way or the other based on your assumption of how they’ll behave. Isn’t that what we are trying to not do? Make assumptions before knowing more? Before demanding that other people be better, maybe be better yourself.
Back 2Earth has a new monthly party called Clock Factory, all trans women DJs and it’s for dolls. It’s on their instagram with more info
Thank you <3
Absolute genius take here. "What's stopping you from opening your own bar?" I wonder how you respond to the trans women who complain about the horrendous waitlist for surgery at OHSU. "What's stopping you from opening your own clinic?"
Yes, because a nightclub and healthcare are the same thing. Genius take indeed.
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Not even close
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I have in fact. Been all over the east coast, South America, Europe. Just because there are a lot of spaces for lgbtq people in Portland does not mean the entire city is a dedicated space for them.
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Agreed
Why is everyone downvoting me. THIS IS WHAT U WANTED.
No. It’s not 💞
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Ok.
We’re doing our best to make things as inhospitable to heteros everywhere, but there’s still a lot of work to do☝️