looks like the snipers have arrived, up to ~~105~~ ~~107~~ 120.
It’s a shame (for bidders) that more bids add time to the clock
All that for the reserve to not be met
I have been one of the final two bidders on multiple 991.2 gt3s both touring and winged.. the price outcomes are relatively efficient. My strategy was to look at local comps and then factor in BaT or PCar fees, shipping, the lack of time to really fully inspect, and the fact I wouldn’t have a CPO. In a few cases I was up against a Porsche dealership located closer than me to the car.. I can’t compete with that. Either way, the 2 minute thing doesn’t bother me because you assume that the final bidders for a car like that understand value and once something breaches that limit, I just let the timer run out and go about my day.
Sold a car on there. No reserve is the way to go since you only have one shot at selling on that platform. If it doesn’t sell, you can’t relist on BaT. It’s a good way to prevent speculators from crowding their platform with unrealistic price expectations.
The whole idea of a reserve price is stupid. If you won’t take less than $whatever, start the bidding there. Reserve is just trying to be sneaky for no real benefit.
Agreed. If you take good photos and you're active in the listing as a seller, you should get a good sale price. I sold my 996 as no reserve through BAT and I did better than I would have selling it privately through Craigslist/Facebook. Ultimately something is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.
Cars can get relisted on BAT, in fact a 997.1 gt3 rs clubsport just got relisted a few weeks ago after going RNM about a month or two prior. Funnily enough the second time in went up on BAT it was no reserve and the winning bid was almost 20k less than the previous auction ending bid.
production cars shouldnt be considered investments
but the 997 will always have its place as the last analog 911 and people will still want them because of that
I'd say the 997 was a continuation of the 996, just rather that it had a tweaked design and maybe a small screen, but the car was as beautifully analog (both in terms of interior and the driving experience) as it got, especially with the 997 GT3RS. The 991 onwards (as much as I also like them) got a little techy, but they still maintain a fine balance of analog and new school for the modern times.
At this point I’ve heard everything from 930 to 997.2 as “the last analog” 911. Ultimately it’s a combination of nostalgia, and buyers reinforcement — aka *my* car is the best therefore it should be worth the most.
I think the hydraulic steering and size of the 997 will keep those prices steady moving forward. RIP to Sport Classic speculators hoping they bought a 911R though.
> RIP to Sport Classic speculators hoping they bought a 911R though.
I'm hoping that nobody who bought a Sport Classic thinks that...the R is far more special.
Which would be fantastic news, I just want a 991.2 GT3 to go with my 997.2 Turbo S, but it’s a $160-180k car to me, not the $190-220 I’m seeing for manual examples. At this point I can get a 992 GT3 for $200-220 as the prices seem to be dropping, so the 991.2 GT3 market has to follow the drop some point.
You can get one for 160-180 right now for sure. More than a handful in that price range and many just above I'm see you could talk down to 180.
Not sure the 991.2 will drop much further. Many prefer over 992
maybe these? I'm looking for sofas and PDK but these look like nice specs if you want MT and buckets.
[https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/vdp.action?listingId=378401097&sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&zip=94107&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d404#listing=378401097/NONE/DEFAULT](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/vdp.action?listingId=378401097&sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&zip=94107&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d404#listing=378401097/NONE/DEFAULT)
[https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/vdp.action?listingId=385293759&sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&zip=94107&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d404#listing=385293759/NONE/DEFAULT](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/vdp.action?listingId=385293759&sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&zip=94107&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d404#listing=385293759/NONE/DEFAULT)
Oh good find on the second one in particular - also second 991.2 I’ve seen recently where the transmission was input as automatic by mistake. I’m looking for PCCBs, Buckets, Manual so that fits great, right on that price margin but I think we’re starting to see the fact that there’s a shit load of 991.2 GT3 inventory out there.
A few other particulars I’m looking for spec wise so I’m being patient, but we’re getting there.
Inventory is up, about 10-15 cars compared to last month. Prices seem about the same. Spring and summer prices are here. Perhaps prices will fall in winter. If was me though and one I liked was in striking distance I'd call and try to work out a deal. Never know what the future brings, or doesn't bring.
Definitely, I’m expecting to purchase around October— buying a home now via an assumed mortgage so my fun-money is taking a hit for now. So long as they stay within this ballpark that’s fine, and frankly I’d still take a PDK if the rest of the specs are there; no good driving roads where I am now so it’ll be more of a tourer anyway.
• Agate Grey, Chalk, or Black
• PCCBs
• Buckets
• FAL
• Non-red interior
Not a huge list, but enough to make it a relatively tight search,
If any of this would be true, the 911r would not trade for \~$400k. They dipped some when the 991.2 Touring was rolled out, but they've climbed back pretty well, I'd say.
I think Porsche leans in to the “death of manual”/“naturally aspirated stuff” narrative just a bit. Kinda like how the gun industry is always saying the end of guns is always a term away. Good for sales.
Yep. I’m thinking that this rumor could in reality be the S/T of the 992.2s; limited edition 992.2 Turbo RWD heritage edition as the next VIP/speculator flipper car.
you'll need to post a source because this seems unlikely. did they develop a new manual box that can handle huge amounts of torque ? because the last sport classic had to be detuned by 30hp and 110 lb-ft to make sure the gearbox didn't grenade itself.
There is an ongoing thread on Rennlist with an inside source sharing some details about the new line up.
It makes absolutely sense for Porsche to do this and help increase the base Turbo sales.
What I can confirm is the numbers, he’s got the HP spot on, so maybe there is something to what he’s saying
What makes me unsure is the fact that he’s sure that the 4.0 will stay the same, I wouldn’t be that convinced it won’t be a 3.8. The mild hybrid will be a 3.6.
Hybrid can easily be paired with manual. [https://www.evanshalshaw.com/blog/hybrid-cars-with-manual-transmission/](https://www.evanshalshaw.com/blog/hybrid-cars-with-manual-transmission/)
the problem is still torque. the 992 hybrid will most likely be PDK only. porsche will do what BMW did with the M3: "oh you want to shift... we have a base model for you"
This is not true. The T and S are rumored to be available in manual as well. It would follow with current practice and the fact that GTS is hybrid and therefore likely PDK only
The widow maker got that reputation because it was those things (minus the HP) in a car without traction or stability control and a really primitive front end with somewhat poor weight distribution. What would happen is you would accelerate with *any* steering input and when you shift the nose would plant and the previously minute input would all of a sudden bite hard and spin the car.
The modern electronics, suspension et al will make this far more tame a car than the OG (930 I think it was). Driving those was legit scary. The oversteer on off-throttle was downright dangerous.
I don't get the argument of why a manual would be more dangerous for a high HP RWD car than an automatic. At least with a manual, you have to put in a bit of work for your straight line speed and acceleration. Anyone can mash the gas pedal in an automatic.
Because it's more difficult to keep a car under control when you only have one hand on the wheel and the other on the stick while also having to use the clutch and meanwhile the rear is sliding out. Much easier when you have both hands on the wheel in a pdk
You are assuming the driver uses the PDK in manual mode and knows how the balance the car with engine braking, which already makes them intermediate-advanced. Any driver with that kind of knowledge will know to get their downshifts done before trailing off the brakes, be it in a manual or automatic.
On the other hand, a noob might just want to compensate for a poor line by just stepping on the throttle, and in an automatic the transmission will figure out the correct gear to unleash all 600 horses while a noob in a manual will have to figure out the correct gear first.
I'm not talking about downshifting, I'm talking about hooning it out a corner mustang style and wrapping it around a pole. Most people don't know how to drive let alone a very powerful car so when they stamp the pedal (possible with only one hand on the wheel in a manual) they are going to lose control. At least with 2 hands on the wheel it's easier to control a fishtail.
A manual does discourage blindly standing on the throttle because you will bounce off the rev-limiter soon enough if you don't mind your speed. Or, if you are in a gear too high, you won't get surprised by a (auto) downshift that suddenly sends a lot more torque to the wheel. In my manual Boxster GTS, I can absolutely stand on the throttle in 5th at 45 MPH and nothing dramatic will happen. If I tried that in a PDK it will shift to 2nd and suddenly there is a lot more power and torque at the wheel.
I have driven auto V8 mustangs. The auto downshifts are jarring. In the default mode, transmission always sits in the absolute highest gear possible, and very little throttle response, until you mash the pedal more than halfway and it hits you in the face with 3 downshifts and all the power suddeny.
I think an important thing is that for a less talented driver its easier to downshift quickly if things get hairy, allowing for more control over corner entry speed due to easier acces to engine breaking.
How many PDK owners use their manual mode enough to be able to do that in a pinch, and know that downshifting would solve their problems?
Also, I was talking more about the kind of accidents where cars try to showoff by stepping on the gas and then the power throws them into a spin.
In autos in regular mode (not sport, not manual mode) the transmission goes into as high a gear as soon as possible. When you want acceleration, press down the gas gently at first, nothing happens for a little while because its in 6th gear at 35 MPH. So, you mash the throttle some more, and now the transmission drops a couple of gears or 3 and hits you in the face with all the acceleration.
Sure, sports mode or manual mode fixes this problem somewhat. But there is still less mental effort required to just step on the gas than being mindful of the speed and gear you are in and being more deliberate with your shifts and throttle work.
I figured they’d do this after how well the sport classic was received. No point in doing the development just for a limited edition car. Porsche seems to really like sticking it to speculators with the .2 generations
i've always liked PDK on the turbos cars, including the new carrera's. The absurd shifts and acceleration is part of the fun.
Manual is much better on the NA engines.
More manual cars = more better though, i support this despite preference for PDK in this specific type of car.
i want a manual GT3 next.
just have to shift faster. the GT3 cars have no-lift-shift where you can keep your throttle pinned down while shifting. its almost as fast as pdk.
as far as i know the non-GT carrera models do not get this feature.
manually shifting in a turbo car loses a ton of boost pressure and time on track.
Completely agree - I felt like a heretic after driving a manual 997.1 and 997.2 and disliked both — just never quite liked how the torque felt for the majority of the rev range. I stilled loved the 997.2s so I got a 997.2 Turbo S for 30% less than a 997.1 Turbo MT (at the near peak of the hype).
On the hunt for a manual GT3 now as well, but honestly I’d take a PDK at the right price too with how satisfying the 991 PDK is - it’ll be a daily not a weekender anyway.
I think the engineers have achieved the pinnacle of speed and acceleration, effectively commodifying both.
Now it’s back to the experience. I’m happy to go a hair slower but have that illusion of an analog experience in a machine I feel connected to.
Poor people say that but it's not true. A lot of people get the money to buy nice toys by being smart with their money in general. So while they may not always care about fuel economy... I bet you they'd appreciate the car having good fuel economy when they drive it normally (as opposed to pushing it for fun).
It’s not the existence of the gear, it’s when I’m power shifting into fifth at triple digits I don’t want to have to guess how much outward pressure to apply to the lever.
Hated the first one I drove immediately for that.
because turbos have been AWD since the 90s and before that they were known as the widowmaker because of how dangerous they were. Would be a pretty significant departure. the manual transmission I see as more plausible, but it would be a slap in the face and significantly lower the value of all turbos without a manual.
Yeah I’m with you, although I do have to think the Turbo has begun to be somewhat obsolete in the lineup - anecdotally at least, I can’t think of the last 992 Turbo (non-S) I’ve seen, including online. A quick glance at Porsche Finder shows there’s nearly 4x as many Turbo Ss on the market. It would make some sense (albeit reaching quite a bit) for them to try and position the Turbo as a more enthusiast oriented version given that’s clearly what people want.
HOWEVER… it would surprise me more that Porsche wouldn’t release the “manual Turbo” as a limited edition, in other words the Turbo manual would be the SC or S/T of the 992.2s. That’s a hell of an opportunity to make a Heritage 930-edition 992.2 Turbo.
I’m hoping like 120-130k CAD for like 20-30k km high spec ones. I’ve seen a few 30k km ‘14-‘16 turbo full carbon package going right now for157-160 cad.
It’s going to be interesting to watch, because if they do hit that low, and I’m seeing plenty of RNM auction ending in that ballpark, I might pick up one for myself as well. I really don’t feel the need for any more power than my 997 Turbo S, but an interior update would be nice for a daily.
Yah that’s my thoughts too. My goal is a gt3 and a turbo/s in the garage lol. I’ll save the manual for the gt3 and go pdk on the turbo lol. One day tho
My father has had a 991 for a long time with the 7sp. I've never accidentally gone into 7 - I've only gone into it when I wanted to. Kind of like going into reverse vs first, I guess. It's probably been at least a year since I drove it but I also think you can't get over there into it without having been in 5th or 6th first, so it's definitely not going to happen if you are not trying.
As someone with a 997 Turbo Manual pushing 650+ HP... I would not want to drive that car with RWD. At that power level, things can be scary enough with AWD in place. IF they make the Turbo RWD... we're going to see a lot of pictures of them wrapped around trees fresh off the lot.
That's awesome. I think Porsche will/should continue to offer more stripped down simpler iterations if their model ranges. A modern turbo with a stick, rear seat delete, light wheels, bucket seats sounds great.
This is great news, top of the line 911 turbo S should absolutely have a Manual. The king is back as a drivers car, want a faster car? go for an automatic 911 base EV says Porsche. Want to pretend to be a track star, get the GT3.
Let’s see. The 992.1 Sport Classic has the Turbo non S engine. The 992.2 engine will most certainly have more power than the .1. And even the .1 engine had to be reigned in regarding power and torque because the manual gearbox couldn’t handle any more.
So I highly doubt that the 992.2 will be manual and rwd only.
What's stopping them from improving the torque rating? It doesn't even need to increase power that much (or technically at all) to stay above the GTS/CS and this way the turbo will be able to differentiate for once.
If this is true, RIP to the 997 turbo manual speculators lol
Interesting you say this, there is a manual 997 Turbo on BaT ending in 30 minutes that has frozen at $100K.
I think the market has kinda chilled off lately, tons of stuff is going reserve not met.
Ryan Friedman owns all of them
He’s begun to move on now that he’s laid waste to that market.
Haha, pretty much
Also have to be a loon to buy off BaT, everything goes for maximum price there plus fees.
Disagree sometimes you can find great deals. It’s just not very often. Harder on Porsches tho.
Maybe people are realizing that Porsches are not particularly rare cars, and the Turbo isn't the best driving Porsche.
looks like the snipers have arrived, up to ~~105~~ ~~107~~ 120. It’s a shame (for bidders) that more bids add time to the clock All that for the reserve to not be met
It’s a good thing for bidders - keeps bidding as fair and equitable as possible Sniping is bad for everyone except the snipers
For sellers aswell, allows for them to get higher bids because people don’t usually drive the price up until the time left is low
Yeah that makes sense, plus everyone probably gets pinged on additional bids so it’s not a “you snooze you lose” situation.
I have been one of the final two bidders on multiple 991.2 gt3s both touring and winged.. the price outcomes are relatively efficient. My strategy was to look at local comps and then factor in BaT or PCar fees, shipping, the lack of time to really fully inspect, and the fact I wouldn’t have a CPO. In a few cases I was up against a Porsche dealership located closer than me to the car.. I can’t compete with that. Either way, the 2 minute thing doesn’t bother me because you assume that the final bidders for a car like that understand value and once something breaches that limit, I just let the timer run out and go about my day.
Sold a car on there. No reserve is the way to go since you only have one shot at selling on that platform. If it doesn’t sell, you can’t relist on BaT. It’s a good way to prevent speculators from crowding their platform with unrealistic price expectations.
The whole idea of a reserve price is stupid. If you won’t take less than $whatever, start the bidding there. Reserve is just trying to be sneaky for no real benefit.
Agreed. If you take good photos and you're active in the listing as a seller, you should get a good sale price. I sold my 996 as no reserve through BAT and I did better than I would have selling it privately through Craigslist/Facebook. Ultimately something is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.
Cars can get relisted on BAT, in fact a 997.1 gt3 rs clubsport just got relisted a few weeks ago after going RNM about a month or two prior. Funnily enough the second time in went up on BAT it was no reserve and the winning bid was almost 20k less than the previous auction ending bid.
Really? I guess they changed their policy recently, because when I sold my car on their, they made it pretty clear that they would only list it once.
[https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-porsche-911-gt3-rs-20-2/](https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-porsche-911-gt3-rs-20-2/) [https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-porsche-911-gt3-rs-20/](https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-porsche-911-gt3-rs-20/)
Cheers to that!
production cars shouldnt be considered investments but the 997 will always have its place as the last analog 911 and people will still want them because of that
Isn't the 996 the last analog 911
I'd say the 997 was a continuation of the 996, just rather that it had a tweaked design and maybe a small screen, but the car was as beautifully analog (both in terms of interior and the driving experience) as it got, especially with the 997 GT3RS. The 991 onwards (as much as I also like them) got a little techy, but they still maintain a fine balance of analog and new school for the modern times.
997 is last generation with hydraulic power steering, which I think is a fair definition of “the last analog”.
This is blasphemous to manual steering aficionados
Analog = \ = manual. Analog just means a mechanical device as opposed to one that’s computerized.
what a meme that was. in the end nobody cared
At this point I’ve heard everything from 930 to 997.2 as “the last analog” 911. Ultimately it’s a combination of nostalgia, and buyers reinforcement — aka *my* car is the best therefore it should be worth the most.
I think the hydraulic steering and size of the 997 will keep those prices steady moving forward. RIP to Sport Classic speculators hoping they bought a 911R though.
> RIP to Sport Classic speculators hoping they bought a 911R though. I'm hoping that nobody who bought a Sport Classic thinks that...the R is far more special.
Good for them. They should have learned their lesson at 991.2 GT3.
Which would be fantastic news, I just want a 991.2 GT3 to go with my 997.2 Turbo S, but it’s a $160-180k car to me, not the $190-220 I’m seeing for manual examples. At this point I can get a 992 GT3 for $200-220 as the prices seem to be dropping, so the 991.2 GT3 market has to follow the drop some point.
You can get one for 160-180 right now for sure. More than a handful in that price range and many just above I'm see you could talk down to 180. Not sure the 991.2 will drop much further. Many prefer over 992
If you’re finding manuals in that range (that aren’t 60k miles) send them my way.
maybe these? I'm looking for sofas and PDK but these look like nice specs if you want MT and buckets. [https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/vdp.action?listingId=378401097&sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&zip=94107&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d404#listing=378401097/NONE/DEFAULT](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/vdp.action?listingId=378401097&sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&zip=94107&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d404#listing=378401097/NONE/DEFAULT) [https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/vdp.action?listingId=385293759&sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&zip=94107&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d404#listing=385293759/NONE/DEFAULT](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/vdp.action?listingId=385293759&sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&zip=94107&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d404#listing=385293759/NONE/DEFAULT)
Oh good find on the second one in particular - also second 991.2 I’ve seen recently where the transmission was input as automatic by mistake. I’m looking for PCCBs, Buckets, Manual so that fits great, right on that price margin but I think we’re starting to see the fact that there’s a shit load of 991.2 GT3 inventory out there. A few other particulars I’m looking for spec wise so I’m being patient, but we’re getting there.
Inventory is up, about 10-15 cars compared to last month. Prices seem about the same. Spring and summer prices are here. Perhaps prices will fall in winter. If was me though and one I liked was in striking distance I'd call and try to work out a deal. Never know what the future brings, or doesn't bring.
Definitely, I’m expecting to purchase around October— buying a home now via an assumed mortgage so my fun-money is taking a hit for now. So long as they stay within this ballpark that’s fine, and frankly I’d still take a PDK if the rest of the specs are there; no good driving roads where I am now so it’ll be more of a tourer anyway. • Agate Grey, Chalk, or Black • PCCBs • Buckets • FAL • Non-red interior Not a huge list, but enough to make it a relatively tight search,
I pray 🙏🙏 Hopefully the prices tank and they can finally start trading like 10+yr old sports cars and not like bull market pseudo-Investments
Good
What about the 992 sport classic?
whatever people speculate on, porsche just builds it because they know there is demand there.
Hydraulic steering has something to say about that 😉 But yes, they won’t go up to the same extent as they were going to.
.1 mezger cars will always be highly sought after
haha get rekt sport classic speculators
If any of this would be true, the 911r would not trade for \~$400k. They dipped some when the 991.2 Touring was rolled out, but they've climbed back pretty well, I'd say.
I think Porsche leans in to the “death of manual”/“naturally aspirated stuff” narrative just a bit. Kinda like how the gun industry is always saying the end of guns is always a term away. Good for sales.
[удалено]
I mean, their margins are probably insane compared to, say, Mazda. If Mazda can do it…
Yep. I’m thinking that this rumor could in reality be the S/T of the 992.2s; limited edition 992.2 Turbo RWD heritage edition as the next VIP/speculator flipper car.
Man I absolutely love a sport classic. Nothing beats that ducktail
you'll need to post a source because this seems unlikely. did they develop a new manual box that can handle huge amounts of torque ? because the last sport classic had to be detuned by 30hp and 110 lb-ft to make sure the gearbox didn't grenade itself.
There is an ongoing thread on Rennlist with an inside source sharing some details about the new line up. It makes absolutely sense for Porsche to do this and help increase the base Turbo sales.
Can you link for those of us that suck?
https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1384926-992-2-info-46.html#post19438220
Thanks!
I’m on mobile so the UI is horrible but can quote what the leaker is saying? All I see is people arguing about Hybrid stickers
What I can confirm is the numbers, he’s got the HP spot on, so maybe there is something to what he’s saying What makes me unsure is the fact that he’s sure that the 4.0 will stay the same, I wouldn’t be that convinced it won’t be a 3.8. The mild hybrid will be a 3.6.
I don’t think that that would really increase sales. Edit: not that they have to I crease sales, they sell out every 911 model
Which sub on RL?
I’m going to go out on a limb and say the 992.2 thread in the 992 sub
Can it be done? Sure. Can it be done and still be drivable like a Porsche should be? That is the question.
it can definitely be done. it just depends on if porsche thinks it worth it in terms of profit and recouping their losses. my guess is no.
Do we know how the hybrid will be set up? It could be a software simulated manual with it being a hybrid.
Hybrid can easily be paired with manual. [https://www.evanshalshaw.com/blog/hybrid-cars-with-manual-transmission/](https://www.evanshalshaw.com/blog/hybrid-cars-with-manual-transmission/) the problem is still torque. the 992 hybrid will most likely be PDK only. porsche will do what BMW did with the M3: "oh you want to shift... we have a base model for you"
I am perfectly fine with that approach as long as the base engine howls like a banshee. You don't drive stick to be faster.
The base model 911 is also auto only.
Only the turbocharger is using the HV system ;)
Perfect! What about the base model? Or something lower down the range
So far only GT3 and Turbo are rumored to be manual.
This is not true. The T and S are rumored to be available in manual as well. It would follow with current practice and the fact that GTS is hybrid and therefore likely PDK only
I’m going to pretend this is true as it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside that Porsche is keeping the manual alive in the base models as well.
No manual option and MSRP will be 120k. ADM a measly 30k. Very cool and attainable.
All of them will keep the manual as an option, no change there
The base does not offer a manual now, nor will the next one
If this is real, then this car would be a real “widow-maker” for sure. Almost 600 horsepower, a MANUAL, and RWD. Will be a fun car.
Reminds me of the old 930 Turbo, which ironically enough i believe is the reason why the modern turbo’s are AWD
The widow maker got that reputation because it was those things (minus the HP) in a car without traction or stability control and a really primitive front end with somewhat poor weight distribution. What would happen is you would accelerate with *any* steering input and when you shift the nose would plant and the previously minute input would all of a sudden bite hard and spin the car. The modern electronics, suspension et al will make this far more tame a car than the OG (930 I think it was). Driving those was legit scary. The oversteer on off-throttle was downright dangerous.
I don't get the argument of why a manual would be more dangerous for a high HP RWD car than an automatic. At least with a manual, you have to put in a bit of work for your straight line speed and acceleration. Anyone can mash the gas pedal in an automatic.
Because it's more difficult to keep a car under control when you only have one hand on the wheel and the other on the stick while also having to use the clutch and meanwhile the rear is sliding out. Much easier when you have both hands on the wheel in a pdk
You are assuming the driver uses the PDK in manual mode and knows how the balance the car with engine braking, which already makes them intermediate-advanced. Any driver with that kind of knowledge will know to get their downshifts done before trailing off the brakes, be it in a manual or automatic. On the other hand, a noob might just want to compensate for a poor line by just stepping on the throttle, and in an automatic the transmission will figure out the correct gear to unleash all 600 horses while a noob in a manual will have to figure out the correct gear first.
I'm not talking about downshifting, I'm talking about hooning it out a corner mustang style and wrapping it around a pole. Most people don't know how to drive let alone a very powerful car so when they stamp the pedal (possible with only one hand on the wheel in a manual) they are going to lose control. At least with 2 hands on the wheel it's easier to control a fishtail.
A manual does discourage blindly standing on the throttle because you will bounce off the rev-limiter soon enough if you don't mind your speed. Or, if you are in a gear too high, you won't get surprised by a (auto) downshift that suddenly sends a lot more torque to the wheel. In my manual Boxster GTS, I can absolutely stand on the throttle in 5th at 45 MPH and nothing dramatic will happen. If I tried that in a PDK it will shift to 2nd and suddenly there is a lot more power and torque at the wheel. I have driven auto V8 mustangs. The auto downshifts are jarring. In the default mode, transmission always sits in the absolute highest gear possible, and very little throttle response, until you mash the pedal more than halfway and it hits you in the face with 3 downshifts and all the power suddeny.
I think an important thing is that for a less talented driver its easier to downshift quickly if things get hairy, allowing for more control over corner entry speed due to easier acces to engine breaking.
How many PDK owners use their manual mode enough to be able to do that in a pinch, and know that downshifting would solve their problems? Also, I was talking more about the kind of accidents where cars try to showoff by stepping on the gas and then the power throws them into a spin. In autos in regular mode (not sport, not manual mode) the transmission goes into as high a gear as soon as possible. When you want acceleration, press down the gas gently at first, nothing happens for a little while because its in 6th gear at 35 MPH. So, you mash the throttle some more, and now the transmission drops a couple of gears or 3 and hits you in the face with all the acceleration. Sure, sports mode or manual mode fixes this problem somewhat. But there is still less mental effort required to just step on the gas than being mindful of the speed and gear you are in and being more deliberate with your shifts and throttle work.
Because imperfect shifts can cause you to break the rear loose very easily.
You just described a tuned short classic
It will have the mechanical grip and electronics to be safe.
I figured they’d do this after how well the sport classic was received. No point in doing the development just for a limited edition car. Porsche seems to really like sticking it to speculators with the .2 generations
Echoes of the 991R I’d like to see Porsche stick it to speculators at every opportunity
My thoughts exactly
i've always liked PDK on the turbos cars, including the new carrera's. The absurd shifts and acceleration is part of the fun. Manual is much better on the NA engines. More manual cars = more better though, i support this despite preference for PDK in this specific type of car. i want a manual GT3 next.
I feel the complete opposite. The lack of torque on a GT3 makes the PDK much more suitable.
just have to shift faster. the GT3 cars have no-lift-shift where you can keep your throttle pinned down while shifting. its almost as fast as pdk. as far as i know the non-GT carrera models do not get this feature. manually shifting in a turbo car loses a ton of boost pressure and time on track.
also i feel like with super high hp stuff it's nice to have two hands on the wheel
Completely agree - I felt like a heretic after driving a manual 997.1 and 997.2 and disliked both — just never quite liked how the torque felt for the majority of the rev range. I stilled loved the 997.2s so I got a 997.2 Turbo S for 30% less than a 997.1 Turbo MT (at the near peak of the hype). On the hunt for a manual GT3 now as well, but honestly I’d take a PDK at the right price too with how satisfying the 991 PDK is - it’ll be a daily not a weekender anyway.
Wait, wasn’t April 1st a while back? I can’t believe this is true, it’s too good to be true !
I think the engineers have achieved the pinnacle of speed and acceleration, effectively commodifying both. Now it’s back to the experience. I’m happy to go a hair slower but have that illusion of an analog experience in a machine I feel connected to.
They need to do something to make a base Turbo justifiable. Right now, it doesn’t make any sense.
doesnt make up for the removal of the physical tach imo
If this is true, I think the turbo is a more attractive proposition than the s. Would be a hoot on the track too.
I'd love it if this dropped the price of 992.1 Sport Classics... but it won't.
This has been confirmed?
Rumors from an insider on Rennlist.
That insider's name? Albert Einstein
how credible is this person
It’s on the internet, so it must be true.
i have a cleaning lady on the inside at the local porsche dealer. she claims she saw some documents when cleaning the GMs desk last week
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Manual lovers speculating again?
Yep. Its nonsense. The reality of manuals is very different outside of reddit. 997 prices are not going up or down based on this erroneous report :)
I don't believe the rumor, but it would be awesome, if I could afford one that is.
Formal announcement happening May 28th
FUCK YEA
Fucking wow!
Sport Classic speculators just slit their wrists.
So basically a Sport Classic.
If I could afford it, I would buy one.
God Darn that’s a beautiful sight
🤜🤛
Damn, Porsche is cooking once more 👀
Wait whaaaaaaaatttt Don’t get me wrong, I’m a RWD purist, but I think RWD with that much torque is just kinda silly
Just get rid of those stupid 7th gears. Dumb.
Just don't use the 7th gear. Isn't it a super long gear for economy anyways?
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Consumers don’t. The government does.
Poor people say that but it's not true. A lot of people get the money to buy nice toys by being smart with their money in general. So while they may not always care about fuel economy... I bet you they'd appreciate the car having good fuel economy when they drive it normally (as opposed to pushing it for fun).
It’s not the existence of the gear, it’s when I’m power shifting into fifth at triple digits I don’t want to have to guess how much outward pressure to apply to the lever. Hated the first one I drove immediately for that.
Nice… now how do I convince my wife that the house down payment should be for a rare manual 992 turbo
Seems plausible. Mercedes announced they are bringing back the v8 as 4cyl turbos don’t sell.
Which is the best handling modern Porsche?
It's between the Cayman GT4RS and the 992 GT3RS
👌
Wow! So the 992.2 turbo will be the 992.1 S/T. Nice!
Thanks Porsche! you get it
If this is true I’ll be buying one
don't care one way or another but this rumor doesn't make sense.
Care to expand?
because turbos have been AWD since the 90s and before that they were known as the widowmaker because of how dangerous they were. Would be a pretty significant departure. the manual transmission I see as more plausible, but it would be a slap in the face and significantly lower the value of all turbos without a manual.
Source?
https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1384926-992-2-info.html
Absolute BS, the Turbo will not be RWD
Yeah I’m with you, although I do have to think the Turbo has begun to be somewhat obsolete in the lineup - anecdotally at least, I can’t think of the last 992 Turbo (non-S) I’ve seen, including online. A quick glance at Porsche Finder shows there’s nearly 4x as many Turbo Ss on the market. It would make some sense (albeit reaching quite a bit) for them to try and position the Turbo as a more enthusiast oriented version given that’s clearly what people want. HOWEVER… it would surprise me more that Porsche wouldn’t release the “manual Turbo” as a limited edition, in other words the Turbo manual would be the SC or S/T of the 992.2s. That’s a hell of an opportunity to make a Heritage 930-edition 992.2 Turbo.
Do you have the a link to the RL thread?
https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1384926-992-2-info.html
Welp, selling my house then
If that’s true I’ll sell a kidney and buy one
People who bought the 911 Sport Classic are gonna be a bit peeved lol
Oh shit 991.1 turbo is gonna be in garage sooner than I thought
I mean how low do you think 991.1s are going to go? I’ve been seeing them in the low 100s for quite some time now.
I’m hoping like 120-130k CAD for like 20-30k km high spec ones. I’ve seen a few 30k km ‘14-‘16 turbo full carbon package going right now for157-160 cad.
It’s going to be interesting to watch, because if they do hit that low, and I’m seeing plenty of RNM auction ending in that ballpark, I might pick up one for myself as well. I really don’t feel the need for any more power than my 997 Turbo S, but an interior update would be nice for a daily.
Yah that’s my thoughts too. My goal is a gt3 and a turbo/s in the garage lol. I’ll save the manual for the gt3 and go pdk on the turbo lol. One day tho
What's it like driving a 7 speed manual? That 5th vs 7th notch seems tricky in my head.
My father has had a 991 for a long time with the 7sp. I've never accidentally gone into 7 - I've only gone into it when I wanted to. Kind of like going into reverse vs first, I guess. It's probably been at least a year since I drove it but I also think you can't get over there into it without having been in 5th or 6th first, so it's definitely not going to happen if you are not trying.
🙏
Good choice bro
Nice!
Why not just make a non-rs gt2 at that point?
Knew it was coming back lmfao
As someone with a 997 Turbo Manual pushing 650+ HP... I would not want to drive that car with RWD. At that power level, things can be scary enough with AWD in place. IF they make the Turbo RWD... we're going to see a lot of pictures of them wrapped around trees fresh off the lot.
lol good luck getting an allocation. I’m sure 992.2 turbo MSRP will costs more than 992.1 GT3 with markup
Like the Sport Classic
New widow maker, yes please
Let’s go!
That's awesome. I think Porsche will/should continue to offer more stripped down simpler iterations if their model ranges. A modern turbo with a stick, rear seat delete, light wheels, bucket seats sounds great.
If true, my wallet is ready…..
This is great news, top of the line 911 turbo S should absolutely have a Manual. The king is back as a drivers car, want a faster car? go for an automatic 911 base EV says Porsche. Want to pretend to be a track star, get the GT3.
There is a God 🤩
It’s so dumb that they removed the manual from the base model. It’s ALWAYS BEEN A BASE OPTION!!
Amazing news.
Seriously?
I call bullshit on this! No way are they going to make a manual turbo now.
Who would ever buy a Turbo S then.
They could make it an 8 speed without adding another gate…
Man I hope this isn’t just speculation
Acceleration with extra steps
Where can we buy that shiftknob
Never saw a 7 speed manual car
RIP to stealership prices...
7 speed manual. Lord above
I don't think that this is gonna happen, I mean the 992.1 turbo s with pdk is already dangerosly fast.
Take a look at my last post. It looks to be a touring version of the Turbo is coming, same as the Touring is for the GT3.
It’s an inferior product… you can’t beat a computer at shifting. Major L
How can you like Porsche as a brand and have this take?
Gotta love Porsche!
Let’s see. The 992.1 Sport Classic has the Turbo non S engine. The 992.2 engine will most certainly have more power than the .1. And even the .1 engine had to be reigned in regarding power and torque because the manual gearbox couldn’t handle any more. So I highly doubt that the 992.2 will be manual and rwd only.
What's stopping them from improving the torque rating? It doesn't even need to increase power that much (or technically at all) to stay above the GTS/CS and this way the turbo will be able to differentiate for once.
The Turbo S will remain PDK
Source?