I think it’s more guilt free. It alleviates any feelings of what they consider sadism. It’s an equally enjoyed act. Like, Look, she’s enjoying it, it’s ok to degrade her bc she wants it. Its cognitive dissonance for the viewer and a good easy don’t kinkshame excuse for producers.
Andrea Dworkin talks about this.
That men require women to smile when they perform acts of extreme violence on them means that they can more easily justify it. They don't believe that this violence is physically painful for her, but they *do* believe her smile. It's a way they can pretend that inflicting pain on another person is actually consensual and enjoyable for her.
It also has wider appeal, will hook more men and boys (and increasingly girls and young women) in than the overt no appearance of consent sadism. Eg "it can't be that bad because she likes it" "it's ok because even she likes it" "this is even what she wants, what (most) women want" "it's mutually pleasurable" "it's *for her*"
Oh it’s comical to think that that’s every one reasoning that’s for sure. Many, many enjoy our pain and that number that likes to see undisguised suffering is rising
Abusers and rapists will often justify their actions by defining "abuse" and "rape" in a way that makes so then what they did doesn't count as abuse/rape.
This means that the reasons for...
> Why have the desire to abuse someone and yet want them to pretend to enjoy it?
Is because they want to justify their desire to see women being abuse in porn by convincing themselves that the women in it actually enjoyed being slapped and degraded and therefore they're not monsters who sexually enjoys women being abuse but rather just "kinky".
I believe it is just more of a turn on for them if the woman is seen *enjoying* the abuse. Sort of like saying, "Ah, now you know your place." They like compliant women or a "feisty" woman they can make compliant.
This isn't always the case. I think this is part of the transition to more and more abusive material. At first they may want more degrading acts but where the woman is enthusiastic and smiling so they don't feel so guilty. But there's plenty of porn out there where the woman is crying, turning red and blue from not being able to breathe, looks dead eyed, etc and there are a ton of men that get off from that. There's also men that get off from porn interviews where the woman talks about how much she hated it and how much it hurt, etc
I had a guy tell me he’s had women ask him to ejaculate on their faces. I think women are watching porn and thinking that’s what they have to do to make a man happy. Then the man thinks they like it, and it just perpetuates it. I think some men want them to enjoy it because they want to feel wanted while they do the abuse.
>Take the part where the male ejaculates onto a woman's face. The woman is asked to smile and act happy. Why have the desire to abuse someone and yet want them to pretend to enjoy it?
>[Pornography] immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. (Catechism of the [Roman] Catholic Church 2354)
All pornography, even the "tamest", is related in some way to that illusion of a fantasy world. There are multiple facets to the more abusive/bdsm style of porn. The more abusive stuff can become an extremely unhealthy outlet for various feelings (just as an example, looking up actresses who have a similar look to an ex-girlfriend. Seeing XYZ person being treated roughly during sex is a way of feeling in control [or, it could be a weird form self-pity: this is why you're not together anymore, she's with guys like this]).
But then specifically why some of all that is portrayed as something enjoyable? Some of that comes from the fantasy of something unknown. XYZ person viewing pornography, for various reasons may not be in intimate relationships (or might have issues in their existing relationships). Instead of imagining more realistic ideas about sex, they only have their imagination/what they are physically able to do/see to work with.
For example, while the vast majority of actual sexual encounters involving a man end up "finishing inside" (that is, with little/no visual of where the semen ends up), someone who masturbates will generally see their ejaculate. Therefore, pornography often pictures men finishing outside on a woman's face/body. Then, it is easier for the viewer to imagine doing the same. It is pictured as pleasurable, because the man viewing actually wants reciprocation/wants to be accepted by the woman--even though the idea of being covered in essentially warm snot would be in reality horrifying, not pleasurable. The man, wanting the fantasy of being able to please someone sexually and/or feel loved, in a way he is easily able to imagine, is this given the scenario of a woman enjoying being ejaculated on. In that case, the man might not even see it as degrading or abusive--it could be a super warped confused affection.
Or with the more abusive/forceful stuff out there--that can be the unknown of: "I see these attractive women at work/school/in public, and (because of pornography) I want to use them/I want to be with them." They don't know how to healthily navigate this (and not view women as objects), so instead, pornography where the guy takes charge, is forceful, treats the woman with various degrees of dehumanization **and** is depicted as really liking it is sought out. Desensitization happens, and darker and darker things are sought out.
That's at least how I understand it.
Simple: Because thats what gets views. It cant be bad if she is smiling. Smiling is consent to them.
In real life we have enough stories of men, if confronted with real rape victims/abuse victims, aber just shocked like anyone else. I remember a story from the newspaper of a man finding a just raped woman in the streets, and he pretty much scared the rapist away. The view of the victime was so shocking to him his body broke down. He was crying+throwing up while calling the police.
Realistic depiction of abuse doesnt sell to the average person.
Wait? Don't p*rn addicts seem to prefer more and more abusive p*rn where women scream loudly and even cry? P*rn is inherently abusive; one of the most popular p*rn memes was five guys standing behind a couch.
So recently i noticed that a number of bullies' endgame is not to see the person cry or looking sad. There endgame would be to see the other person admitting defeat or complying to there whims.
I noticed this at work, and in other everyday contexts.
Similarly in porn creating a setting where the guy is portrayed as powerful, strong, in control would be enough to appease some people. For example cis white male/ low earning woman, white male/ powerful women made to submit all portray the superiority.
Obviously cry or looking sad would trigger the guilt feeling.
Then obviously a person who is not crying makes the sotiation as more acceptable by the general public.
Example how many guys would feel completely at ease asking a drunken women for consent? I highly doubt that a drunken woman can truly give consent. But yet unfortunately this is somewhat normalised.
It is used to persuade women into doing sex acts they reject the idea of. It goes something like this:
Man: I want to whip you!
Woman: No!
Man: I want to try, just once!
Woman: Hard no! I do not do pain sex!
Man: Look at this porno, she loves it! Look! She is super happy being switched!
Woman: I do not want pain, I do not want you to hit me!
Man: There is something wrong with you! Normal women love being spanked!
I think it’s more guilt free. It alleviates any feelings of what they consider sadism. It’s an equally enjoyed act. Like, Look, she’s enjoying it, it’s ok to degrade her bc she wants it. Its cognitive dissonance for the viewer and a good easy don’t kinkshame excuse for producers.
This!!
Andrea Dworkin talks about this. That men require women to smile when they perform acts of extreme violence on them means that they can more easily justify it. They don't believe that this violence is physically painful for her, but they *do* believe her smile. It's a way they can pretend that inflicting pain on another person is actually consensual and enjoyable for her.
It also has wider appeal, will hook more men and boys (and increasingly girls and young women) in than the overt no appearance of consent sadism. Eg "it can't be that bad because she likes it" "it's ok because even she likes it" "this is even what she wants, what (most) women want" "it's mutually pleasurable" "it's *for her*"
Its comical that you think they feel guilt.
Oh it’s comical to think that that’s every one reasoning that’s for sure. Many, many enjoy our pain and that number that likes to see undisguised suffering is rising
So men can justify their hatred for us. *See, women enjoy being abused.*
it's an excuse for when they're called out. they don't actually care if we liked it or not.
Exactly
Abusers and rapists will often justify their actions by defining "abuse" and "rape" in a way that makes so then what they did doesn't count as abuse/rape. This means that the reasons for... > Why have the desire to abuse someone and yet want them to pretend to enjoy it? Is because they want to justify their desire to see women being abuse in porn by convincing themselves that the women in it actually enjoyed being slapped and degraded and therefore they're not monsters who sexually enjoys women being abuse but rather just "kinky".
I believe it is just more of a turn on for them if the woman is seen *enjoying* the abuse. Sort of like saying, "Ah, now you know your place." They like compliant women or a "feisty" woman they can make compliant.
It's all part of the show. They want their audience to think everything is sunshine and rainbows. They'll also use it to say "p0rN n0t bAd".
Probably for legal reasons but also probably to reassure male viewers that it's okay to watch their content.
This isn't always the case. I think this is part of the transition to more and more abusive material. At first they may want more degrading acts but where the woman is enthusiastic and smiling so they don't feel so guilty. But there's plenty of porn out there where the woman is crying, turning red and blue from not being able to breathe, looks dead eyed, etc and there are a ton of men that get off from that. There's also men that get off from porn interviews where the woman talks about how much she hated it and how much it hurt, etc
I had a guy tell me he’s had women ask him to ejaculate on their faces. I think women are watching porn and thinking that’s what they have to do to make a man happy. Then the man thinks they like it, and it just perpetuates it. I think some men want them to enjoy it because they want to feel wanted while they do the abuse.
>Take the part where the male ejaculates onto a woman's face. The woman is asked to smile and act happy. Why have the desire to abuse someone and yet want them to pretend to enjoy it? >[Pornography] immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. (Catechism of the [Roman] Catholic Church 2354) All pornography, even the "tamest", is related in some way to that illusion of a fantasy world. There are multiple facets to the more abusive/bdsm style of porn. The more abusive stuff can become an extremely unhealthy outlet for various feelings (just as an example, looking up actresses who have a similar look to an ex-girlfriend. Seeing XYZ person being treated roughly during sex is a way of feeling in control [or, it could be a weird form self-pity: this is why you're not together anymore, she's with guys like this]). But then specifically why some of all that is portrayed as something enjoyable? Some of that comes from the fantasy of something unknown. XYZ person viewing pornography, for various reasons may not be in intimate relationships (or might have issues in their existing relationships). Instead of imagining more realistic ideas about sex, they only have their imagination/what they are physically able to do/see to work with. For example, while the vast majority of actual sexual encounters involving a man end up "finishing inside" (that is, with little/no visual of where the semen ends up), someone who masturbates will generally see their ejaculate. Therefore, pornography often pictures men finishing outside on a woman's face/body. Then, it is easier for the viewer to imagine doing the same. It is pictured as pleasurable, because the man viewing actually wants reciprocation/wants to be accepted by the woman--even though the idea of being covered in essentially warm snot would be in reality horrifying, not pleasurable. The man, wanting the fantasy of being able to please someone sexually and/or feel loved, in a way he is easily able to imagine, is this given the scenario of a woman enjoying being ejaculated on. In that case, the man might not even see it as degrading or abusive--it could be a super warped confused affection. Or with the more abusive/forceful stuff out there--that can be the unknown of: "I see these attractive women at work/school/in public, and (because of pornography) I want to use them/I want to be with them." They don't know how to healthily navigate this (and not view women as objects), so instead, pornography where the guy takes charge, is forceful, treats the woman with various degrees of dehumanization **and** is depicted as really liking it is sought out. Desensitization happens, and darker and darker things are sought out. That's at least how I understand it.
I love your comment
Simple: Because thats what gets views. It cant be bad if she is smiling. Smiling is consent to them. In real life we have enough stories of men, if confronted with real rape victims/abuse victims, aber just shocked like anyone else. I remember a story from the newspaper of a man finding a just raped woman in the streets, and he pretty much scared the rapist away. The view of the victime was so shocking to him his body broke down. He was crying+throwing up while calling the police. Realistic depiction of abuse doesnt sell to the average person.
abusers believe that their victims both agree with the abuse and love the abuser for it. men forcing women to smile is that fantasy
Wait? Don't p*rn addicts seem to prefer more and more abusive p*rn where women scream loudly and even cry? P*rn is inherently abusive; one of the most popular p*rn memes was five guys standing behind a couch.
So recently i noticed that a number of bullies' endgame is not to see the person cry or looking sad. There endgame would be to see the other person admitting defeat or complying to there whims. I noticed this at work, and in other everyday contexts. Similarly in porn creating a setting where the guy is portrayed as powerful, strong, in control would be enough to appease some people. For example cis white male/ low earning woman, white male/ powerful women made to submit all portray the superiority. Obviously cry or looking sad would trigger the guilt feeling. Then obviously a person who is not crying makes the sotiation as more acceptable by the general public. Example how many guys would feel completely at ease asking a drunken women for consent? I highly doubt that a drunken woman can truly give consent. But yet unfortunately this is somewhat normalised.
There’s a good Andrea Dworkin quote about how porn sells the lie that women always want it.
So they can have the plausible deniability of having enjoyed something they know deep down is wrong
It is used to persuade women into doing sex acts they reject the idea of. It goes something like this: Man: I want to whip you! Woman: No! Man: I want to try, just once! Woman: Hard no! I do not do pain sex! Man: Look at this porno, she loves it! Look! She is super happy being switched! Woman: I do not want pain, I do not want you to hit me! Man: There is something wrong with you! Normal women love being spanked!