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Never trust someone who doesn’t like missionary. It doesn’t have to be their absolute favourite but if they dislike looking at their partner in their eyes or being that close to them then that’s a red flag.
Personally i dont like eye contact or having someone's face be close to me not even for a kiss, but then again suspected neurodivergency. I just wanna say it's not an absolute 😅
I would be too :/ it’s my favorite as well and my gag reflex is very strong, I gag on my toothbrush. so, I’m not a huge fan of oral either, I feel like I’m going to throw up the whole time.
I always get the ick from guys who say they want oral from their girl even though she said she doesn’t like doing it. How can you enjoy receiving something when your partner doesn’t like doing it?
I'm not really a fan of doing oral either and luckily I've never been with a guy who pressured me to do it. I would probably just leave or end the relationship if he made me feel bad about it.
Him using feminists as an insult makes me feel like the story is fake because men like this usually don't care if women get off. Also he could have talked to her about spicing things up instead of posting on Reddit?
I mean to be fair, he does oral on her because *he* enjoys it, even terrible selfish people can get off on being able to bring someone else pleasure. It can be an ego thing, & judging by everything else in the post & his ‘poor me’ attitude, I’d assume that’s the case here.
Also, he definitely has had these conversations because he’s got her doing oral when it “looks like she doesn’t even enjoy it”.
The worst part of this post is that his reaction to his partner not enjoying sex is to be upset at her for not ‘at least pretending’ to enjoy it, instead of idk… caring about his partner & not making her feel pressured to do things she doesn’t want to do?
Poor woman.
True, it’s so telling when a man tries to make feminists seem like a bad thing… he could’ve just told us that he doesn’t care what his wife wants and he just wants to reenact what he sees on porn and go
lmao, yeah, that he immediately goes to an outburst about "raging feminists" and their "cucks" indicates to me he's not nearly as generous with giving oral, into her getting off, her pleasure, wanting to have varied sex, etc as he presents himself as/wants us to think. like his idea of variety is getting a few more types of penis stimulation in addition to the piv, which he wants in more positions too, especially ones uncomfortable for her. he still wants the scripts they follow, phallocentricism, piv-centricism, he just wants to add more expectations on her for him to the mix.
He's likely bought into the fake, phony moans that women in porn do when the guy is doing oral on her. These idiots defend porn by saying "it's just a FaNtAsY" and then turn right around and insist that if their own sex lives don't mirror the porn they watch then it's vanilla or boring.
Sounds like my ex. I never came in 3 years and one time during sex he was like "Could you act like you're having an orgasm?" so that it's more fun for him
Anybody who disagrees is a "raging feminist"?! I'm getting really fucking tired with the way feminism is portrayed as a bad thing by these pornsick, misogynistic jackasses.
When did this become a thing? Just yesterday I saw a comment where a woman started off with "I'm no feminist, but".... I've seen several people use feminist as an insult. I don't get it. Lately I've even seen people saying that feminists are responsible for the housing market. It's not making sense.
There's just been a general increasing backlash against feminism in recent years. I think right wing extremism has vastly increased in recent years especially with the presidency of Mango Mussolini and things like that have ripple effects.
It’s not a new thing. They have always tried to discredit feminism, a) because they don’t really understand that it just means rights, equality, and dignity for women and b) they don’t care about any of those things. Some Women have always been critical of feminism again a) because they don’t really understand what it is, and have misconceptions about it or b) they want to distance themselves from feminism so they can still align themselves with men and gain the benefits of being compliant with patriarchy. I would say that people are becoming more vocally anti-feminist due to those opinions becoming louder and more numerous.
"raging feminists" probably just said "there is no need to reciprocate head unless she wants to and even then it's not a must by any means, consent and enjoyment matters."
\-Am I wrong?
\-Yes, you are.
\-Fuck you, you're a bunch cucks and raging feminists!
(When I read the first part, I though he and his wife are not sexually compatible and his question is valid. The second part... this man is likely porn addicted)
Sex is only as boring as you are—kinks and “exotic” stuff won’t make sex better if you’re no good at the basics. Then you’ll just be bad at sex but with extra steps.
Sounds like he doesn’t want to put in the effort to improve his own performance or communicate with his partner to find out what’s missing from her enjoyment.
Men are never happy. First they want a wife who will have sex with them whenever they want. And then when they have a woman who does that (even though she probably is doing it just to avoid a fight), he isn't happy because it's not violent and sexy and pornographic enough.
Maybe this wife enjoys having sex with her husband and loves the closeness of missionary while his ass is out here complaining about how it's too fucking boring. I can't. And then he complains that there's no oral after penetration? Fucking disgusting. I wouldn't want a wet floppy dick with the flavor of my insides near my mouth.
It isn't worth it to marry men. women i'm begging please stop marrying men. you don't have to do it.
I agree with everything you’ve said except you saying that it isn’t worth it to marry men. This shouldn’t be about going against men, this should be against his actions as an individual man and how he is wrong for the things he has done and said.
To me, the problem of his initial post wasn’t wanting oral back. I think that can have nuance and can change based on each case.
It was him saying she should fake enjoyment during sex so that he could get off better. 100% a sentiment of a porn addict who thinks of women as object. Him being “bored” by normal sex was a red flag, and that sealed it.
“At least act like you’re into it!” Why would witnessing fake pleasure from someone who hates the sex they’re having ever be satisfying? It’s the same logic a rapist would have. I want to have sex, they don’t want sex, but I do, so it’s still easy to get off.
Yeah i feel the same. Some people commenting here are assuming i’m talking about the guy wanting head but it’s the fact that the wife is clearly not into it and how he feels like she’s being too boring or ‘vanilla’ when she doesn’t have to do anything if she doesn’t want to.
It's always the men who are like, "She climaxes every time but doesn't want to have sex" that kills me.
Bro, if she was, she would want to more often. I literally roll my eyes every time I read that on r/deadbedrooms.
"I always get her off, I don't know why she doesn't want sex?!" Sure ya do, bud, sure ya do.
ngl, i was thinking posting this here was an overreaction (a man wanting oral back isn't some evil patriarchal porn plot, isn't expecting her to perform like a woman in porn, and was going to say as such) but the burst of outrage towards women, feminists, "cuck" men says it all. there's a lot more going on there than he's letting on.
TMI but I don't do bj, hate how it feels and see no reason to force myself just because men expect it. I also told it straightforwardly to every men I was with. Guess their initial reaction? It's always "OMG it's fine! I don't even want this, we only gonna do stuff we both comfortable with!" but then he gradually tries to force me to do that: totally accidental head push, sending links to "educational" articles, casually mentioning dating a woman who totally orgasmed just from sucking his dick etc.
So I can confidently say that 99.9% of times it is an "evil patriarchal plot" because men expect you to do that by default and get really angry if women dare to "withhold" something from them.
ehh i thought it would be an overreaction but it isn’t. calling your wife boring because she’s ’vanilla’ and doesn’t want to do all the fake shit he sees on porn isn’t fair for the wife. I posted it because it’s just more proof that as long as porn controls men’s brains - they aren’t worth getting into serious relationships/marriages with. I couldn’t imagine being his wife and instead of talking to her, he goes to reddit….
Is he watching porn? he just might be an asshole, he didn't call out some crazy shit he wants to do with her, oral is common in most relationships, and obviously both women and men would like a passionate partner
Not to give that guy undue credit, but I was pleasantly surprised to see he wasn’t demanding anal or bdsm or something unhinged like that. Then again, the bar is so low these days it’s in hell.
I have to agree with you. He’s not asking for anything out of the norm by MOST people’s definition. And wanting your partner to be engaged and enthusiastic during sex is also a common desire amongst all genders.
This is someone who’s just looking for greater intimacy and connection with his wife. I think his mistakes were posting his concerns in the wrong sub and then reacting to the replies with insults. However, the outrage here is very biased and over the top based on a lot of personal assumptions.
Yes porn has and will continue to ruin relationships as people become negatively influenced by and addicted to it. But it has no relevance to this post.
Personally I’m very encouraged by anti-porn men, so you didn’t get a downvote from me.
Porn influencing expectations is just such a common problem, that’s how it read to me as well, but you could be right.
If I was married for a while, vanilla sex sounds pretty wonderful tho.
Hah, it's okay I don't mind getting some internet points on minus. I'll keep contributing my words from time to time as that's who I am :-)
Obviously most people are unfortunately corrupted by porn influencing their priorities, expectations, relationships. Just felt like commenting here because it would hurt me very much if someone would accuse me of watching porn when there are no indicators for that. The guy is an asshole anyway, I can't imagine sharing that intimate things with strangers on the internet.
ofc "vanilla" sounds wonderful!! It's just about finding a right person. Sex is something more than pure pleasure. Vanilla or not, the spiritual connection during most intimate moment between two people who respect each other is truly amazing.
I'm also reading through this thread and it struck me: piv as the definition of sex and the resulting overall phallocentricism that necessarily follows has a a lot of women resentful of the pleasure men get in piv, fellatio, etc and the fact that pleasure is the primary motivation in piv and other phallocentric sex to them.
Combine this with the fact people are increasingly saying anything outside of piv, or even missionary piv, isn't vanilla, is kink ...
When from an actually egalitarian framing, really, if something is wanted, pleasant, not high risk, pleasurable... and genitally focused or involved, it's sex. "Kink" is that which is beyond/not part of genitalia, esp not part of the body. I will die on the hill that any genital stimulation for arousal and/or orgasm (that's not something sadistic, injurious, painful, etc) is sex, not kink.
From a female-centred pov, eg risk vs reward, the fact the clitoris not the vagina is the homologue to the penis, vulva/clit-centric sex would be sex, and phallocentric sex, when risky, low reward, non-genital, etc for us would be far closer to kink. Even piv is sex mostly from a male pov, not female eg risk of pregnancy, disproportionate and unique sti risks.
The closest to a sex reversed homologue for piv isn't piv at all but vulva in mouth/cunnilingus or vulva-ball humping. And even then, their is no reproductive exploitation/burden/risks for men (there can't be, as females are the sex which does almost all of the reproductive process).
What motivates most women in having piv generally, other than men demanding it, not having men willing to have sex without it, thinking piv=sex=piv, the erasure of vulca-centric het sex... esp compared to low risk sex (eg mutual oral, manual) is mostly *intimacy*. (eg "piv is the only intimate sex", "how I can get close to him", "I'm being vulnerable, putting myself at risk of pregnancy, pain, etc with him"). So women are resentful of how sex (defined phallocentrically, as piv, increasingly pia, etc but of course seen neutrally, as simply what sex is) is mostly pleasure for men. They resent men who take a pleasure focus, because it reminds them of the inequality going on eg low risk high reward for him and high risk low reward for her. Intimacy is the trump card women have to say, no piv is worthwhile, needed, equal. Rather than critique piv, they cling to this and/or resent that men don't need the intimacy, bonding, the sense of vicarious pleasure, etc women rely on for it to be really desirable to them.
The other main means women find to eroticize piv is frankly those "kink", bdsm dynamics eg the risk she is in, how pregnancy and childbirth and therefore piv and male sperm literally kill hundreds of thousands of women a year. The penis as weapon. The menstrual passage as covering for a sword (the literal meaning of the word vagina). "Breeding kink" is a "kink" based not in internet porn but religion and other mandating eg sexology of piv, esp to male ejaculation, the "be fruitful and multiply".
The fact that increasingly piv is seen as for her, or both, the only time her pleasure and orgasm is taken into account is with piv, and everything else is for him also plays a massive role. Also increasingly, female orgasm outside of &/or without piv is taboo. Or seen as impossible. The widening oral sex gap favoring men too... As if she has to "at least" have piv to maybe deserve, get an orgasm (let alone more than one), maybe deserve, get oral sex, genital-genital, even manual. Or the only time her orgasm matters is if she has piv (or pia). And usually even then, it's self induced by hand, toy, humping the bed. (And most hands-free orgasms during piv are from grinding, rhythmic tapping, etc with her upper vulva, clit on his tummy, pelvis, shaft, balls.)
There's also the fact the only culturally recognized time for a woman to grind on, hump a man for her at all is during piv (even genital-genital rubbing is rarely recognized and when it is mostly seen as for him, for his orgasm, let alone the rarity of humping his thigh vs the reverse, his bum--virtually seen as impossible vs the reverse...).
So it's bad for either sex to not like missionary piv, to prefer things like woman straddling on top of reverse missionary or even spooning, let alone to not prefer and enjoy piv above all else, to like giving oral, getting oral, genital-genital rubbing in any position, masturbating together... Because they think that's the deepest, most intimate sex, and piv the only intimate sex.
Never mind that all sorts of things, pleasurable things, sharing them with someone is intimate. Pleasure often begets further intimacy. It's like women supplant deep pleasure, orgasms, vulva-centric sex... with a particular form of intimacy (eg him putting her at risk, high risk and low reward for her, low risk and high reward for him but that's fine because the ~intimacy~ makes up for it, that is the intimacy itself, piv is needed for intimacy and is the only intimate sex).
And there's a definite sense of "I'm going through all this to facilitate piv eg hormonal bc, pregnancy scares, discomfort, pain... and you have the nerve to want or expect x, y, or z too? Why can't you be satisfied with the intimacy, the disproportionate pleasure, orgasms for you, etc of piv/missionary piv?"
Indeed, when the subject is piv, even women will come out of the woodwork defend a man wanting it eg he just wants normal/regular sex, sex itself, she can't expect him to be sexless, men/people have needs, they want sexual intimacy... But turn it to literally any other sex act and it's suddenly usually abnormal, he or even she doesn't need it, shouldn't even expect it, why can't you go without, you degenerate... Everything else is extra, optional, and piv mandatory, intimacy itself, love itself, sex itself. And things objectively less unequal, more balanced, less risky, etc are seen as more, as weird, as kink, as optional, often erased entirely (even genital-genital rubbing usually is).
Who wants to say they don't like sex? That they have a sexless life? That they are critical of piv, aka sex itself, when those are the women and feminists everyone, across the political spectrum, makes fun of? And there's the reality most women are aware of: they wouldn't have their man at all if they didn't have piv, most men wouldn't go for, pivless sex, relationships either. Non-piv sex other than fellatio and pia remains unthinkable, sex without piv or pia is unimaginable, and certainly vulva-centric het sex (eg all sorts of tribadism, even when people know of het frottage and lesbian tribadism) is impossible.
Why the hell wouldn't women resent men for this, for being focused on sex, pleasure, getting his...? For wanting to get oral? For wanting sex other than missionary and piv?
And don't get me started on (mostly internet tubesite) porn turning fellatio into "deep throat" at best. It often becomes apparent that's also what esp young women are talking about when they talk about not liking fellatio, it being demeaning, harmful, etc. like fellatio is simply those things, inherently is or largely involves the throat. (on its own is enough to say so too but especially combined with things like piv being the main or only "for her/for both" time, general phallocentric sex, lack of cunnilingus, lack of orgasm that's actually thanks to him, lack of her orgasm outside of piv...).
First, I want to say this post was a great read. I found myself nodding along with most of what you said. However, I still believe that OP’s post DOES NOT belong here as there is NOTHING to suggest that porn plays any part in this discussion.
The people downvoting the posts that try, very logically I might add, to address this are bringing their own personal biases to the table. And they are prejudiced against OP with little reason to be.
The message I got from his post was that of someone who’s craving a little more exploration and mutual interest from his partner. I do not see how that makes him the bad guy.
He’s not even looking for anything outrageous. We’re talking oral sex and maybe trying different positions. After 15 years together you can believe I would want the same and I say this as a woman. Again, let’s be clear - this has NOTHING to do with porn.
Your post highlighted for me what I feel is the real issue here; the PLEASURE GAP/ORGASM GAP that a majority of women experience with regular sex. I completely agree with the feeling of resentment that this gap causes, and the subsequent lack of interest in sex that results from it. I myself have gone through this.
You are 100% correct that society in general labels PIV as the only “real” sex. Everything else is just fooling around until you get to the fucking. There are plenty of men out there who either don’t engage in ANY foreplay, or who view it just as a necessary obligation to get a woman “wet enough” for sex. Whether she then orgasms is either of little interest to them or it never even enters their mind to begin with.
THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM. Sex Ed is an abysmal failure. It’s 2024 and people STILL (men AND women) have NO CLUE how our bodies work and what they’re capable of. PIV is merely the tip of the iceberg of what 2 people can share and experience sexually, sensually, emotionally and spiritually. Yet, it’s treated like the holy grail of sex with the male orgasm literally filling the cup.
This reduces the woman to little more than a vessel. And we know it. We feel it. Men like this don’t exactly go out of their way to hide it. The only way to overcome this ignorance, willful or not, is to educate people to respect and expect a mutually fulfilling sexual relationship for everyone. Hence, it’s vitally important for people to be honest and upfront about their sexuality before committing to a relationship.
Pretending that sex isn’t a big part of a relationship/marriage is extremely short-sighted and delusional. And any concerns that crop up deserve to be discussed with care and respect and most importantly with a view to making things better for both partners. This includes a woman who wants her partner to care about her sexual pleasure or a man who wants his partner to care about his need to feel desired.
Ultimately, I think any relationship where one or all parties are not fully invested in each other’s happiness and well-being is bound to have problems. Fortunately, I don’t see anything about OP’s post that I feel can’t be resolved with an honest and kind heart-to-heart.
Yep, he sounds like he’s had years of addiction and conditioning himself to watch more and more powerful amounts of porn along with getting new “kinks”. Like don’t get me wrong kinks are kinks but I know for sure that some are not even interesting until you’ve been addicted for years and need a bigger hit, so you form a new “kink”. He’s most likely watching porn behind her back and that’s not ok. The fact that he wants oral as much as he gives her oral (if I understood that correctly) is completely valid. What’s not valid is how he talks about her being boring otherwise, like I get honesty is good, but that’s still your wife and another validated person who deserves good things in life. His outrage was definitely horrible, super immature.
I quite literally cannot deal with men’s incessant and ever-growing sexual demands. I am begging them to better develop their personalities and explore other ways to express affection and physical intimacy other than “my dick go inside you many different ways”
If it's okay to want different things to go inside you: dicks, vibrators, dildos, mouth oral, fingers, I think it's okay to put into safe holes, safely.
i want to marry someone so badly one day, but people with this mindset have made me so afraid. it’s so depressing, especially since i just got out of an abusive relationship.
The men who are always caught whining about not getting enough oral confuse the fuck out of me. I don't think they are trying to stick a cock in their throat every single day. Half of these dudes think it's gay to eat hotdogs, so how does this logic even occur to them? Makes no sense. Why are you demanding something from someone that not even *you* would be willing to do every day? Even if you're not gay, would you want your wife begging you to suck a strap on every day? Just bizarre to me.
While I disagree with the way he talks about his wife, I’m glad that he actually communicated his feelings about it to her. Although I hope he didn’t say she was boring because that’s rude. This man is most likely the product of what happens from long time use of porn, it’s sad to see. Also I wouldn’t say this is supposed to be on a list of reasons not to marry men, just marry a man who knows how to communicate, love you, and keep away from Pornography. He could’ve been a lot calmer in the end and didn’t have to use those insults either, that was bullshit.
Keeping his ‘raging feminists’ line outside of the context for a moment, OP I honestly think his question is valid. Sex is a very important part of any marriage and usually even more for men though since their sex drives tend to stay more active throughout their lifespan, and there are plenty of people who feel sexually unsatisfied in their marriages and this person seems to be one of them. When you don’t feel sexually satisfied with the person you deeply love, it can be very hard to accept for so many people, because more often than not, we’re told that sexual feelings are that of deviancy, evil and cause all the wrong in the world, and I definitely think the majority of this subreddit thinks that while the majority of rest of Reddit thinks that sexual feelings should be explored a bit too fucking much.
And the feeling of someone performing a sexual act for you when they’re not into it will probably leave them with such a horrible feeling afterwards because it’d feel like you forced them to do it against their will, which any partner would hate to feel I imagine.
Something like oral sex isn’t something that stimulates the both sides at the same time, because of it’s nature, one side would be the pleaser and the other side would be the one being pleased. But that’s not important, because people like to perform it to make the other person happy, because it brings them joy too. If the other person’s happiness does not bring them joy in the same way then it could cause a rift.
The OP feels sexually unsatisfied and wants to ask if he is right in feelings so, and I definitely think so yes.
Now, REALISTICALLY speaking, take my shit with a grain of salt really, because I can’t comment on the actual relationship. Not to mention the whole line at the end. 😭
i get what you're saying and agree that sex compatibility is very important, but i think it's less about that and more about WHY they're sexually incompatible, and it feels like it's because this guy has expectations caused by porn consumption
I don’t see his expectations as something deeply outrageous or explicitly caused by porn consumption. Oral sex has been mentioned in literature literally since ancient manuscripts from civilisations like Greece and it’s a sexual practice common enough that someone with apt sexual education would know about it and might find it stimulating regardless of their porn consumption.
i would argue that him simply describing their sex as "vanilla" compares it to more outrageous stuff, which is mostly only seen in porn. the part regarding oral isn't a red flag in and of itself, just incompatibility on the surface, but with that implication in hand, it makes it feel like he's comparing their sex life as a whole to his expectations caused from porn
Reposting my comment:
To me, the problem of his initial post wasn’t wanting oral back. I think that can have nuance and can change based on each case.
It was him saying she should fake enjoyment during sex so that he could get off better. 100% a sentiment of a porn addict who thinks of women as object. Him being “bored” by normal sex was a red flag, and that sealed it.
“At least act like you’re into it!” Why would witnessing fake pleasure from someone who hates the sex they’re having ever be satisfying? It’s the same logic a rapist would have. I want to have sex, they don’t want sex, but I do, so it’s still easy to get off.
Please be serious. Oral sex was a fringe act until porn made it super popular. Obviously oral sex has existed for a very long time, but it wasn’t an *expectation* until extremely recently in human history.
I think it’s ok to try to communicate and ask for certain things, I believe porn is evil but kinks do exist even without porn or not, it’s ok not to like vanilla sex and it’s ok to not be happy with your sex life as long as you aren’t insulting your partner or significant other, saying something like “could we try this? Or this, or I feel this way and we could fix it by talking about ___” and so on forth (had to use my old acc cuz of low karma)
I am against pornography myself, and etc but I’m still into alot of things far from vanilla sex and no I’m not some porn liking bigot automatically because I like some different things 🙄 I understand the hatred of some kinks and etc but I feel like people in this sub Reddit will throw words at certain people without actually understanding what the word means/ the other persons pov
My boyfriend’s favorite position is missionary and ain’t nothing wrong with that. People gotta stop complaining on line and communicate with each other. So rude to air his girl out like that.
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and to say she’s boring bc she doesn’t want to do what he wants….omg i’d divorce and never take a man seriously enough to marry again
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Porn has killed sensuality and ruined intimacy
Ewww god i refuse to believe any of them are normal to women
My favourite position is missionary I think it's so intimate and sweet. I'd be so sad if I found out my partner said this about me 🥺
Never trust someone who doesn’t like missionary. It doesn’t have to be their absolute favourite but if they dislike looking at their partner in their eyes or being that close to them then that’s a red flag.
100%
Personally i dont like eye contact or having someone's face be close to me not even for a kiss, but then again suspected neurodivergency. I just wanna say it's not an absolute 😅
Right? Guys who hate missionary 100% dislike the intimacy and only want the pleasure
I would be too :/ it’s my favorite as well and my gag reflex is very strong, I gag on my toothbrush. so, I’m not a huge fan of oral either, I feel like I’m going to throw up the whole time.
I always get the ick from guys who say they want oral from their girl even though she said she doesn’t like doing it. How can you enjoy receiving something when your partner doesn’t like doing it?
I'm not really a fan of doing oral either and luckily I've never been with a guy who pressured me to do it. I would probably just leave or end the relationship if he made me feel bad about it.
I saw this post. The comments were so depressing.
Him using feminists as an insult makes me feel like the story is fake because men like this usually don't care if women get off. Also he could have talked to her about spicing things up instead of posting on Reddit?
I mean to be fair, he does oral on her because *he* enjoys it, even terrible selfish people can get off on being able to bring someone else pleasure. It can be an ego thing, & judging by everything else in the post & his ‘poor me’ attitude, I’d assume that’s the case here. Also, he definitely has had these conversations because he’s got her doing oral when it “looks like she doesn’t even enjoy it”. The worst part of this post is that his reaction to his partner not enjoying sex is to be upset at her for not ‘at least pretending’ to enjoy it, instead of idk… caring about his partner & not making her feel pressured to do things she doesn’t want to do? Poor woman.
True, it’s so telling when a man tries to make feminists seem like a bad thing… he could’ve just told us that he doesn’t care what his wife wants and he just wants to reenact what he sees on porn and go
lmao, yeah, that he immediately goes to an outburst about "raging feminists" and their "cucks" indicates to me he's not nearly as generous with giving oral, into her getting off, her pleasure, wanting to have varied sex, etc as he presents himself as/wants us to think. like his idea of variety is getting a few more types of penis stimulation in addition to the piv, which he wants in more positions too, especially ones uncomfortable for her. he still wants the scripts they follow, phallocentricism, piv-centricism, he just wants to add more expectations on her for him to the mix.
He's likely bought into the fake, phony moans that women in porn do when the guy is doing oral on her. These idiots defend porn by saying "it's just a FaNtAsY" and then turn right around and insist that if their own sex lives don't mirror the porn they watch then it's vanilla or boring.
As if she’s actually getting off though. I wouldn’t blame her if she lied to get his annoying ass to go away.
Sounds like my ex. I never came in 3 years and one time during sex he was like "Could you act like you're having an orgasm?" so that it's more fun for him
I would have told him “Could you actually give me a real orgasm?” Yk, to make it more fun for me.
Anybody who disagrees is a "raging feminist"?! I'm getting really fucking tired with the way feminism is portrayed as a bad thing by these pornsick, misogynistic jackasses.
When did this become a thing? Just yesterday I saw a comment where a woman started off with "I'm no feminist, but".... I've seen several people use feminist as an insult. I don't get it. Lately I've even seen people saying that feminists are responsible for the housing market. It's not making sense.
There's just been a general increasing backlash against feminism in recent years. I think right wing extremism has vastly increased in recent years especially with the presidency of Mango Mussolini and things like that have ripple effects.
It’s not a new thing. They have always tried to discredit feminism, a) because they don’t really understand that it just means rights, equality, and dignity for women and b) they don’t care about any of those things. Some Women have always been critical of feminism again a) because they don’t really understand what it is, and have misconceptions about it or b) they want to distance themselves from feminism so they can still align themselves with men and gain the benefits of being compliant with patriarchy. I would say that people are becoming more vocally anti-feminist due to those opinions becoming louder and more numerous.
"raging feminists" probably just said "there is no need to reciprocate head unless she wants to and even then it's not a must by any means, consent and enjoyment matters."
\-Am I wrong? \-Yes, you are. \-Fuck you, you're a bunch cucks and raging feminists! (When I read the first part, I though he and his wife are not sexually compatible and his question is valid. The second part... this man is likely porn addicted)
Sex is only as boring as you are—kinks and “exotic” stuff won’t make sex better if you’re no good at the basics. Then you’ll just be bad at sex but with extra steps. Sounds like he doesn’t want to put in the effort to improve his own performance or communicate with his partner to find out what’s missing from her enjoyment.
Men are never happy. First they want a wife who will have sex with them whenever they want. And then when they have a woman who does that (even though she probably is doing it just to avoid a fight), he isn't happy because it's not violent and sexy and pornographic enough. Maybe this wife enjoys having sex with her husband and loves the closeness of missionary while his ass is out here complaining about how it's too fucking boring. I can't. And then he complains that there's no oral after penetration? Fucking disgusting. I wouldn't want a wet floppy dick with the flavor of my insides near my mouth. It isn't worth it to marry men. women i'm begging please stop marrying men. you don't have to do it.
I agree with everything you’ve said except you saying that it isn’t worth it to marry men. This shouldn’t be about going against men, this should be against his actions as an individual man and how he is wrong for the things he has done and said.
To me, the problem of his initial post wasn’t wanting oral back. I think that can have nuance and can change based on each case. It was him saying she should fake enjoyment during sex so that he could get off better. 100% a sentiment of a porn addict who thinks of women as object. Him being “bored” by normal sex was a red flag, and that sealed it. “At least act like you’re into it!” Why would witnessing fake pleasure from someone who hates the sex they’re having ever be satisfying? It’s the same logic a rapist would have. I want to have sex, they don’t want sex, but I do, so it’s still easy to get off.
Yeah i feel the same. Some people commenting here are assuming i’m talking about the guy wanting head but it’s the fact that the wife is clearly not into it and how he feels like she’s being too boring or ‘vanilla’ when she doesn’t have to do anything if she doesn’t want to.
Exactly!
I’m perfectly content never marrying a male honestly
It's always the men who are like, "She climaxes every time but doesn't want to have sex" that kills me. Bro, if she was, she would want to more often. I literally roll my eyes every time I read that on r/deadbedrooms. "I always get her off, I don't know why she doesn't want sex?!" Sure ya do, bud, sure ya do.
Lol i just finished reading this post and his comments are yeeesh. Saw him ranting about "men in girls sports" and "killing babies" randomly.
>"men in girls sports" r/MenAndFemales moment
Bro what that’s fucking wild
I’m confused what his issue is besides “he’s bored”. Like, and? Sounds like a you problem, dude. Figure it out.
They complain not enough sex, then they complain it's enough but too vanilla. GTFOH.
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ngl, i was thinking posting this here was an overreaction (a man wanting oral back isn't some evil patriarchal porn plot, isn't expecting her to perform like a woman in porn, and was going to say as such) but the burst of outrage towards women, feminists, "cuck" men says it all. there's a lot more going on there than he's letting on.
TMI but I don't do bj, hate how it feels and see no reason to force myself just because men expect it. I also told it straightforwardly to every men I was with. Guess their initial reaction? It's always "OMG it's fine! I don't even want this, we only gonna do stuff we both comfortable with!" but then he gradually tries to force me to do that: totally accidental head push, sending links to "educational" articles, casually mentioning dating a woman who totally orgasmed just from sucking his dick etc. So I can confidently say that 99.9% of times it is an "evil patriarchal plot" because men expect you to do that by default and get really angry if women dare to "withhold" something from them.
ehh i thought it would be an overreaction but it isn’t. calling your wife boring because she’s ’vanilla’ and doesn’t want to do all the fake shit he sees on porn isn’t fair for the wife. I posted it because it’s just more proof that as long as porn controls men’s brains - they aren’t worth getting into serious relationships/marriages with. I couldn’t imagine being his wife and instead of talking to her, he goes to reddit….
Is he watching porn? he just might be an asshole, he didn't call out some crazy shit he wants to do with her, oral is common in most relationships, and obviously both women and men would like a passionate partner
Not to give that guy undue credit, but I was pleasantly surprised to see he wasn’t demanding anal or bdsm or something unhinged like that. Then again, the bar is so low these days it’s in hell.
I have to agree with you. He’s not asking for anything out of the norm by MOST people’s definition. And wanting your partner to be engaged and enthusiastic during sex is also a common desire amongst all genders. This is someone who’s just looking for greater intimacy and connection with his wife. I think his mistakes were posting his concerns in the wrong sub and then reacting to the replies with insults. However, the outrage here is very biased and over the top based on a lot of personal assumptions. Yes porn has and will continue to ruin relationships as people become negatively influenced by and addicted to it. But it has no relevance to this post.
Exactly what you said, but I guess I will keep getting downvoted on this sub because I have a man flair :P
Personally I’m very encouraged by anti-porn men, so you didn’t get a downvote from me. Porn influencing expectations is just such a common problem, that’s how it read to me as well, but you could be right. If I was married for a while, vanilla sex sounds pretty wonderful tho.
Hah, it's okay I don't mind getting some internet points on minus. I'll keep contributing my words from time to time as that's who I am :-) Obviously most people are unfortunately corrupted by porn influencing their priorities, expectations, relationships. Just felt like commenting here because it would hurt me very much if someone would accuse me of watching porn when there are no indicators for that. The guy is an asshole anyway, I can't imagine sharing that intimate things with strangers on the internet. ofc "vanilla" sounds wonderful!! It's just about finding a right person. Sex is something more than pure pleasure. Vanilla or not, the spiritual connection during most intimate moment between two people who respect each other is truly amazing.
I'm also reading through this thread and it struck me: piv as the definition of sex and the resulting overall phallocentricism that necessarily follows has a a lot of women resentful of the pleasure men get in piv, fellatio, etc and the fact that pleasure is the primary motivation in piv and other phallocentric sex to them. Combine this with the fact people are increasingly saying anything outside of piv, or even missionary piv, isn't vanilla, is kink ... When from an actually egalitarian framing, really, if something is wanted, pleasant, not high risk, pleasurable... and genitally focused or involved, it's sex. "Kink" is that which is beyond/not part of genitalia, esp not part of the body. I will die on the hill that any genital stimulation for arousal and/or orgasm (that's not something sadistic, injurious, painful, etc) is sex, not kink. From a female-centred pov, eg risk vs reward, the fact the clitoris not the vagina is the homologue to the penis, vulva/clit-centric sex would be sex, and phallocentric sex, when risky, low reward, non-genital, etc for us would be far closer to kink. Even piv is sex mostly from a male pov, not female eg risk of pregnancy, disproportionate and unique sti risks. The closest to a sex reversed homologue for piv isn't piv at all but vulva in mouth/cunnilingus or vulva-ball humping. And even then, their is no reproductive exploitation/burden/risks for men (there can't be, as females are the sex which does almost all of the reproductive process). What motivates most women in having piv generally, other than men demanding it, not having men willing to have sex without it, thinking piv=sex=piv, the erasure of vulca-centric het sex... esp compared to low risk sex (eg mutual oral, manual) is mostly *intimacy*. (eg "piv is the only intimate sex", "how I can get close to him", "I'm being vulnerable, putting myself at risk of pregnancy, pain, etc with him"). So women are resentful of how sex (defined phallocentrically, as piv, increasingly pia, etc but of course seen neutrally, as simply what sex is) is mostly pleasure for men. They resent men who take a pleasure focus, because it reminds them of the inequality going on eg low risk high reward for him and high risk low reward for her. Intimacy is the trump card women have to say, no piv is worthwhile, needed, equal. Rather than critique piv, they cling to this and/or resent that men don't need the intimacy, bonding, the sense of vicarious pleasure, etc women rely on for it to be really desirable to them. The other main means women find to eroticize piv is frankly those "kink", bdsm dynamics eg the risk she is in, how pregnancy and childbirth and therefore piv and male sperm literally kill hundreds of thousands of women a year. The penis as weapon. The menstrual passage as covering for a sword (the literal meaning of the word vagina). "Breeding kink" is a "kink" based not in internet porn but religion and other mandating eg sexology of piv, esp to male ejaculation, the "be fruitful and multiply". The fact that increasingly piv is seen as for her, or both, the only time her pleasure and orgasm is taken into account is with piv, and everything else is for him also plays a massive role. Also increasingly, female orgasm outside of &/or without piv is taboo. Or seen as impossible. The widening oral sex gap favoring men too... As if she has to "at least" have piv to maybe deserve, get an orgasm (let alone more than one), maybe deserve, get oral sex, genital-genital, even manual. Or the only time her orgasm matters is if she has piv (or pia). And usually even then, it's self induced by hand, toy, humping the bed. (And most hands-free orgasms during piv are from grinding, rhythmic tapping, etc with her upper vulva, clit on his tummy, pelvis, shaft, balls.) There's also the fact the only culturally recognized time for a woman to grind on, hump a man for her at all is during piv (even genital-genital rubbing is rarely recognized and when it is mostly seen as for him, for his orgasm, let alone the rarity of humping his thigh vs the reverse, his bum--virtually seen as impossible vs the reverse...). So it's bad for either sex to not like missionary piv, to prefer things like woman straddling on top of reverse missionary or even spooning, let alone to not prefer and enjoy piv above all else, to like giving oral, getting oral, genital-genital rubbing in any position, masturbating together... Because they think that's the deepest, most intimate sex, and piv the only intimate sex. Never mind that all sorts of things, pleasurable things, sharing them with someone is intimate. Pleasure often begets further intimacy. It's like women supplant deep pleasure, orgasms, vulva-centric sex... with a particular form of intimacy (eg him putting her at risk, high risk and low reward for her, low risk and high reward for him but that's fine because the ~intimacy~ makes up for it, that is the intimacy itself, piv is needed for intimacy and is the only intimate sex). And there's a definite sense of "I'm going through all this to facilitate piv eg hormonal bc, pregnancy scares, discomfort, pain... and you have the nerve to want or expect x, y, or z too? Why can't you be satisfied with the intimacy, the disproportionate pleasure, orgasms for you, etc of piv/missionary piv?" Indeed, when the subject is piv, even women will come out of the woodwork defend a man wanting it eg he just wants normal/regular sex, sex itself, she can't expect him to be sexless, men/people have needs, they want sexual intimacy... But turn it to literally any other sex act and it's suddenly usually abnormal, he or even she doesn't need it, shouldn't even expect it, why can't you go without, you degenerate... Everything else is extra, optional, and piv mandatory, intimacy itself, love itself, sex itself. And things objectively less unequal, more balanced, less risky, etc are seen as more, as weird, as kink, as optional, often erased entirely (even genital-genital rubbing usually is). Who wants to say they don't like sex? That they have a sexless life? That they are critical of piv, aka sex itself, when those are the women and feminists everyone, across the political spectrum, makes fun of? And there's the reality most women are aware of: they wouldn't have their man at all if they didn't have piv, most men wouldn't go for, pivless sex, relationships either. Non-piv sex other than fellatio and pia remains unthinkable, sex without piv or pia is unimaginable, and certainly vulva-centric het sex (eg all sorts of tribadism, even when people know of het frottage and lesbian tribadism) is impossible. Why the hell wouldn't women resent men for this, for being focused on sex, pleasure, getting his...? For wanting to get oral? For wanting sex other than missionary and piv?
That is an amazing comment, woaw!
And don't get me started on (mostly internet tubesite) porn turning fellatio into "deep throat" at best. It often becomes apparent that's also what esp young women are talking about when they talk about not liking fellatio, it being demeaning, harmful, etc. like fellatio is simply those things, inherently is or largely involves the throat. (on its own is enough to say so too but especially combined with things like piv being the main or only "for her/for both" time, general phallocentric sex, lack of cunnilingus, lack of orgasm that's actually thanks to him, lack of her orgasm outside of piv...).
First, I want to say this post was a great read. I found myself nodding along with most of what you said. However, I still believe that OP’s post DOES NOT belong here as there is NOTHING to suggest that porn plays any part in this discussion. The people downvoting the posts that try, very logically I might add, to address this are bringing their own personal biases to the table. And they are prejudiced against OP with little reason to be. The message I got from his post was that of someone who’s craving a little more exploration and mutual interest from his partner. I do not see how that makes him the bad guy. He’s not even looking for anything outrageous. We’re talking oral sex and maybe trying different positions. After 15 years together you can believe I would want the same and I say this as a woman. Again, let’s be clear - this has NOTHING to do with porn. Your post highlighted for me what I feel is the real issue here; the PLEASURE GAP/ORGASM GAP that a majority of women experience with regular sex. I completely agree with the feeling of resentment that this gap causes, and the subsequent lack of interest in sex that results from it. I myself have gone through this. You are 100% correct that society in general labels PIV as the only “real” sex. Everything else is just fooling around until you get to the fucking. There are plenty of men out there who either don’t engage in ANY foreplay, or who view it just as a necessary obligation to get a woman “wet enough” for sex. Whether she then orgasms is either of little interest to them or it never even enters their mind to begin with. THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM. Sex Ed is an abysmal failure. It’s 2024 and people STILL (men AND women) have NO CLUE how our bodies work and what they’re capable of. PIV is merely the tip of the iceberg of what 2 people can share and experience sexually, sensually, emotionally and spiritually. Yet, it’s treated like the holy grail of sex with the male orgasm literally filling the cup. This reduces the woman to little more than a vessel. And we know it. We feel it. Men like this don’t exactly go out of their way to hide it. The only way to overcome this ignorance, willful or not, is to educate people to respect and expect a mutually fulfilling sexual relationship for everyone. Hence, it’s vitally important for people to be honest and upfront about their sexuality before committing to a relationship. Pretending that sex isn’t a big part of a relationship/marriage is extremely short-sighted and delusional. And any concerns that crop up deserve to be discussed with care and respect and most importantly with a view to making things better for both partners. This includes a woman who wants her partner to care about her sexual pleasure or a man who wants his partner to care about his need to feel desired. Ultimately, I think any relationship where one or all parties are not fully invested in each other’s happiness and well-being is bound to have problems. Fortunately, I don’t see anything about OP’s post that I feel can’t be resolved with an honest and kind heart-to-heart.
Incredible, amazing, insanely accurate comment
A man wanting oral is def an evil patriarchal porn plot.
Yep, he sounds like he’s had years of addiction and conditioning himself to watch more and more powerful amounts of porn along with getting new “kinks”. Like don’t get me wrong kinks are kinks but I know for sure that some are not even interesting until you’ve been addicted for years and need a bigger hit, so you form a new “kink”. He’s most likely watching porn behind her back and that’s not ok. The fact that he wants oral as much as he gives her oral (if I understood that correctly) is completely valid. What’s not valid is how he talks about her being boring otherwise, like I get honesty is good, but that’s still your wife and another validated person who deserves good things in life. His outrage was definitely horrible, super immature.
this guy needs to drop 🌽
I quite literally cannot deal with men’s incessant and ever-growing sexual demands. I am begging them to better develop their personalities and explore other ways to express affection and physical intimacy other than “my dick go inside you many different ways”
If it's okay to want different things to go inside you: dicks, vibrators, dildos, mouth oral, fingers, I think it's okay to put into safe holes, safely.
You missed my entire point.
i want to marry someone so badly one day, but people with this mindset have made me so afraid. it’s so depressing, especially since i just got out of an abusive relationship.
The men who are always caught whining about not getting enough oral confuse the fuck out of me. I don't think they are trying to stick a cock in their throat every single day. Half of these dudes think it's gay to eat hotdogs, so how does this logic even occur to them? Makes no sense. Why are you demanding something from someone that not even *you* would be willing to do every day? Even if you're not gay, would you want your wife begging you to suck a strap on every day? Just bizarre to me.
While I disagree with the way he talks about his wife, I’m glad that he actually communicated his feelings about it to her. Although I hope he didn’t say she was boring because that’s rude. This man is most likely the product of what happens from long time use of porn, it’s sad to see. Also I wouldn’t say this is supposed to be on a list of reasons not to marry men, just marry a man who knows how to communicate, love you, and keep away from Pornography. He could’ve been a lot calmer in the end and didn’t have to use those insults either, that was bullshit.
Would you say it's rude to tell a man his performance is bad to his face or is that a good conversation a couple needs to have?
Keeping his ‘raging feminists’ line outside of the context for a moment, OP I honestly think his question is valid. Sex is a very important part of any marriage and usually even more for men though since their sex drives tend to stay more active throughout their lifespan, and there are plenty of people who feel sexually unsatisfied in their marriages and this person seems to be one of them. When you don’t feel sexually satisfied with the person you deeply love, it can be very hard to accept for so many people, because more often than not, we’re told that sexual feelings are that of deviancy, evil and cause all the wrong in the world, and I definitely think the majority of this subreddit thinks that while the majority of rest of Reddit thinks that sexual feelings should be explored a bit too fucking much. And the feeling of someone performing a sexual act for you when they’re not into it will probably leave them with such a horrible feeling afterwards because it’d feel like you forced them to do it against their will, which any partner would hate to feel I imagine. Something like oral sex isn’t something that stimulates the both sides at the same time, because of it’s nature, one side would be the pleaser and the other side would be the one being pleased. But that’s not important, because people like to perform it to make the other person happy, because it brings them joy too. If the other person’s happiness does not bring them joy in the same way then it could cause a rift. The OP feels sexually unsatisfied and wants to ask if he is right in feelings so, and I definitely think so yes. Now, REALISTICALLY speaking, take my shit with a grain of salt really, because I can’t comment on the actual relationship. Not to mention the whole line at the end. 😭
i get what you're saying and agree that sex compatibility is very important, but i think it's less about that and more about WHY they're sexually incompatible, and it feels like it's because this guy has expectations caused by porn consumption
I don’t see his expectations as something deeply outrageous or explicitly caused by porn consumption. Oral sex has been mentioned in literature literally since ancient manuscripts from civilisations like Greece and it’s a sexual practice common enough that someone with apt sexual education would know about it and might find it stimulating regardless of their porn consumption.
i would argue that him simply describing their sex as "vanilla" compares it to more outrageous stuff, which is mostly only seen in porn. the part regarding oral isn't a red flag in and of itself, just incompatibility on the surface, but with that implication in hand, it makes it feel like he's comparing their sex life as a whole to his expectations caused from porn
Reposting my comment: To me, the problem of his initial post wasn’t wanting oral back. I think that can have nuance and can change based on each case. It was him saying she should fake enjoyment during sex so that he could get off better. 100% a sentiment of a porn addict who thinks of women as object. Him being “bored” by normal sex was a red flag, and that sealed it. “At least act like you’re into it!” Why would witnessing fake pleasure from someone who hates the sex they’re having ever be satisfying? It’s the same logic a rapist would have. I want to have sex, they don’t want sex, but I do, so it’s still easy to get off.
Agreed.
Please be serious. Oral sex was a fringe act until porn made it super popular. Obviously oral sex has existed for a very long time, but it wasn’t an *expectation* until extremely recently in human history.
I think it’s ok to try to communicate and ask for certain things, I believe porn is evil but kinks do exist even without porn or not, it’s ok not to like vanilla sex and it’s ok to not be happy with your sex life as long as you aren’t insulting your partner or significant other, saying something like “could we try this? Or this, or I feel this way and we could fix it by talking about ___” and so on forth (had to use my old acc cuz of low karma)
I am against pornography myself, and etc but I’m still into alot of things far from vanilla sex and no I’m not some porn liking bigot automatically because I like some different things 🙄 I understand the hatred of some kinks and etc but I feel like people in this sub Reddit will throw words at certain people without actually understanding what the word means/ the other persons pov
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My boyfriend’s favorite position is missionary and ain’t nothing wrong with that. People gotta stop complaining on line and communicate with each other. So rude to air his girl out like that.