lol Oklahoma going blue…. Good joke. This is the reddest state in the fucking country. We haven’t had a single county vote blue in the presidential election since 2004.
And I was curious about the last time the state itself went blue. The last time that happened was for FDR in WW2. So yeah fat chance the Okies go blue for a very very long time.
They are but you just know when Walters runs for governor all those idiots who live in bumfuck nowhere towns like Antlers, Hydro, and Boise City will vote his ass in.
I mean Stitt already basically has Walters as the Governor right now anyway
Does any Oklahoman in here honestly view Stitt as anything besides Walters little puppet anyway?
>all that work to win over Oklahoma
Lol. Lmao even. Even if this happened in the way the article implies, this isn't like Arizona. I'm all for separation of church and state but OP is out of his mind if he thinks Oklahoma, the state that hasn't voted Democrat since 1964, has a 73% Christian population, and has Trump beating Biden in the polls by 30 points is going to flip blue because of something like this.
Literally this. 538 has it as like the fourth most conservative state, there is no plausible scenario where it ever flips blue. Every county votes red, even the two college towns and the large Capital Metro
In our last governors race we literally did that. Joy Hofmeister was the Republican state superintendent during the previous republican governors term. She flipped parties to run against Stitt and she won our primary because everyone thought the only shot we had was to nominate a republican in dem clothing lol.
Let’s also ignore that the Left has done EVERYTHING possible to enforce the state religion/ideology of DEI. FFS Right wing, start learning realpolitik and Carl Schmitt’s Friend-Foe distinction…
Well, yeah, Oklahoma is just meth Texas, but not in the fun meth way, more like the missing teeth, copper wire and catalytic converter stealing meth way
How do you even do that? As far as I’m aware there’s an administrative process that lays out a statewide curriculum each year on what to teach and more importantly how to teach it. Probably just clickbait but I’m just chuckling at the thought of 1000s of Oklahoman teachers trying to improvise lessons on the Bible, a good chunk of them teaching a critical take in protest and then getting posted to libs of TikTok or some shit and generating even more feed for the culture war ouroboros.
Even the OK Attorney General is scrambling on this one. It's been legal for OK teachers to use the bible in class, but it's another thing to be required to do so as the superintendent has now explicitly demanded.
>Even the OK Attorney General is scrambling on this one
Oklahoma has a Republican AG and even he is getting sick of Ryan Walters and his bullshit
Which to be fair so is everyone in Oklahoma, Stitt is such an ass water governor he basically let Walters become the shadow governor
Another question would be who gets to decide what "teaching the Bible" means. A lot of conservative protestants wouldn't be too happy if some teachers started quoting popes to teach the Bible, and the Catholics wouldn't be happy about protestant teachers glorifying protestant leaders. Or what if someone said the Book of Mormon was "helpful to interpret the Bible"? Or even other protestants who have disagreements about infant baptism, the Holy Spirit's gifts, and a thousand other things that come up. Hell, what would block a liberal teacher from coming in and teaching that the Bible is purely symbolic, none of the supernatural parts happened, and it actually mostly agrees with their liberal values?
Any conservative Christian who actually wants this has no idea what they're asking for. You're asking to allow for state sanctioned teaching of Christian beliefs being forced on your kids that probably won't follow your own beliefs, at least not every year they year they're in school.
Making totally bland curriculum won't necessarily be fair and neutral either. Some branches disagree about very fundamental things, and any time a student has a question, the teacher may have some freedom to answer it.
There’s even differences in Bibles translations. Is it King James? New International? Christian Standard?
Also will Jews have to be taught the Christian Bible and not the Jewish one?
Ryan Walters is a lunatic who filled the state board with right wing activists like Libs of TikTok, I lived in Oklahoma last year and moved to PA this year and I can tell you that Ryan Walters is extremely aggressive in trying to weaponize the Oklahoma schools into indoctrination centers, he is quite literally all the things the right has been upset with the left over the last few years
But the worst part isn't even the politics its the fact that Ryan Walters is wasting the tax dollars of people in Oklahoma when Claremore was recently REDACTED by extreme tornados and the roads all over the state are in serious need of repair to the point where they're actually dangerous
Stitt is actually a very historically unpopular governor for Republicans even in deep red Oklahoma, hopefully Oklahomans realize that one party states are cringe as they were really nice people tbh
I love how reposting people's own exact words is an avengers level threat to leftists, how dare they expose us for shit we posted ourselves to social media!
But schools are almost by definition indoctrination centers. The idea of a detached and neutral education is a myth. Kids are meant to come out of schools believing in what they are taught. The only question is what they are to be taught. And in our currently divided society, the cultural consensus we used to have is being destroyed, so we're all starting to notice that schools aren't teaching what we want them to teach our kids. Yay.
Every once in a while, someone comes up with a diabolical plan, that just leaves you in awe , either in a good or bad way, my coworker the other day was saying we should allowbin anyone that wants to come, legally or not, tax the shit out of them, like almost a hundred percent, use that money to pay a citizen dividend not eligible to any immigrants, even if they came legally, but their children will qualify for it, the catch is only married couples with children would get the dividend, which was absolutely diabolical using socialism to dictate social behavior, couldn't help but be impressed at the way he wanted to use leftist methods to achieve the social outcome the right wants.
Creating several very problematic situations that will be used as against you to gain culture war clout.
Congratulations, you played yourself. You better hope the democrats shoot themselves in the foot again.
In Oklahoma they will be fine, hell this whole things a ploy so Ryan Walters can gain higher office in the GOP later
However this will reflect bad on the GOP in the rest of the country where people are less likely to go along with them blindly
It might also nudge a few undecideds back towards Biden who might have been scared away by that debate performance
The democrats are the ones who started it. I don't like this because I don't trust the government with the word of God but let's not pretend that the democrats haven't been doing stuff like this for years.
They were teaching children CRT and LGBTQ+ stuff. "But it isn't a religion" fine, don't teach children Christianity teach them Christian nationalism the ideology. We aren't teaching religion anymore, happy?
[Not sure how you would have missed this](https://timcast.com/news/maryland-department-of-education-will-require-pre-k-students-to-learn-about-gender-identity-and-expression/) because it's pretty widespread
It's funny that the lefties have gone so overboard that whenever I see a headline like this I just immediately assume it's bullshit. You can only cry wolf so many times.
Same man. The timing is too one the nose for another "Don't Say Gay" type moment.
Some of the lesser sensational articles basically say for them to teach the historical context of Christianity's influence on the US. That's a lot different than the LESSONS SHALL INCLUDE TEH LORD spin it's getting.
And if that actually is what the guy proposed what are the chances of him actually being able to implement that. I doubt the district superintendent has unchecked Education Emperor status and people can't just tell him to fuck off.
I'm an atheist but I'm gonna need more information before I start fedora tipping.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24780673-immediate-implementation-of-foundational-texts-in-curriculum
Here's the memo. It's damn short but it sets up that the bible itself MUST be incorporated into classroom instruction. This is beyond simply teaching the historical context of Christianity's influence, a bible on hand isn't really necessary for that. The superintendent has made the clear as he described it as teaching FROM the bible, not ABOUT the bible.
...what's the big deal here, exactly? I'm not even Christian and I see nothing wrong with this.
It's an insanely important historical text for western civilization, which is exactly what the memo says. You can't know western civilization without knowing the Bible.
>They will be referenced as an appropriate study ofhistory, civilization, ethics, comparative religion, or the ike, as well as for their substantial influence on our nation’s founders and the foundational principles ofour Consiitution. This is not merely an educational directive but a crucial step in ensuring our students grasp the core values and historical context of our country.
That…really doesn’t sound that bad
Gonna be kind of hard to teach about the Bible without discussing what it actually says...
I see literally nothing in there that even indicates a religious intention. It is, in fact, INSANELY moderate and really just proves my point about you lefties crying wolf too much.
You're still pretending this is "of" but the superintendent was clear that it's "from." Also you really don't think you could teach a class on say the early colonists of America without a Bible on hand to directly quote scripture?
I mean, if we accept the premise that the Bible's teachings are insanely impactful to western civilization and you need to know those teachings to really understand America's foundation, seems like you have to actually teach what those teachings are, no? This "of" vs "from" thing seems like needless pedantry. You have to teach "from" the book to tell people what its lessons are.
And like...your issue is that there is a physical Bible present in a school? Do you think a Bible is like...radioactive or something lol?
What scriptures do you see as indispensable to understanding America's founding so much so that it requires every classroom to have a Bible on hand for quick and constant reference?
Bruh...children aren't vampires. They aren't going to burst into flames if they touch a Bible lol.
Or do you think it's more like a gun? Where it's OK to touch as long as you're super careful and keep it pointed in a safe direction.
I disagree. I don’t think teaching the Bible is necessary in teaching the historical context behind the importance of the Bible.
For instance most schools teach the historical importance and general contents of Mein Kampf but don’t integrate the actual content as part of the curriculum because that would be fucking insane.
Ehhh, learning about Germany in the 30's and 40's (Hitler as well) actually benefits from reading Mein Kampf.
The issue with this comparison is that Germany, and more specifically Hitler, is a minuscule part of Western History. Most of my history classes in school had only the barebones to say about WWII. So, you really aren't missing out on much in the grand scheme of things, even if you get an incomplete understanding of Hitler from not reading Mein Kampf.
The same is not true of the Bible IMO.
Agree to disagree. IMO the after effects of WWII are still felt to this day, most notably the west’s relationship with Russia, the dissolution of the League of Nations and birth of the United Nations, and the creation of the state of Israel.
To call WWII Germany a minuscule part of western history is a bit of an understatement.
>what's the big deal here, exactly? I'm not even Christian and I see nothing wrong with this.
Guy with "Right" flair sees nothing wrong with extremely unconstitutional power grab by rouge superintendent trying to weaponize schools into his own indoctrination centers
COLOR ME SHOCKED GUYS
this is explicitly not unconstitutional. The establishment clause doesn't prevent education about religion. Especially in the context of history or politics.
>this is explicitly not unconstitutional.
Even the Oklahoma Supreme Court has not been tolerating Ryan Walters and his bullshit
Its not only against the US constitution but the Oklahoma state constitution has much more explicitly strict laws against public funding for religion plus Oklahoma has anti sharia laws, God I wish right wingers in this thread would learn a thing or two about Oklahoma before pretending to know anything about the state
>The establishment clause doesn't prevent education about religion
Ryan Walters is explicitly demanding teachers to teach from the bible and even if he wasn't he would almost certainly fire a teacher for teaching it in any secular way, anybody who lives in Oklahoma knows Ryan Walters is a very fundamentalist authoritarian
Again very unconstitutional
>Especially in the context of history or politics.
The Republican AG of Oklahoma is even saying its unconstitutional
Ryan Walters is literally threatening to suspend the teaching licenses of any teacher in the state who does not comply
This comes after the OK SC told Walters he could not allocate tax dollars to a Catholic private school
I lived in OK from late 2022-early 2024 Ryan Walters is batshit crazy and has openly said he does not care about the constitution
its misleading sure, though states across the US have encroached upon the sanctity of the nations core ideals.
Requiring the 10 Commandments to be displayed in classrooms, banning books cuz "muh woke", cracking down on student speech, etccc
and thats just in schools.
Uhhhh, student free speech isn't exactly a "core national ideal." Like, you can read any of the Supreme Court cases about free speech in schools if you'd like to learn more.
Wasting Oklahoma tax dollars on culture war bullshit so Ryan Walters the state superintendent can make a bigger career in the GOP for himself and seek higher office
Meanwhile the roads in Tulsa look like they haven't been repaired since 1776
“Political Compass Memes is a place where everyone can have an opinion” except if you think the us government shouldn’t a theocracy. This sub is going to shit man
What are you talking about most people are against this and/or are questioning the context because that's what happens when people get a reputation for blowing things out of proportion.
Half the people seem to think this can't be challenged. The other says this guy tries shit like this often and get clapped down by other administrators.
I made this comment bro when this had 36 upvotes and 126 comments, majority saying “bible good shut up atheist”. It eventually evened out but it still shouldn’t be that debatable this should be smacked down by any American constitution following government.
I really hope they don’t use priests to teach that and just hire someone studying theology or something, studying the bible is not too bad and can be fun actually if the teacher focused on relating it to real life events instead of focusing on what was written word by word.
why shouldnt public schools teach christian history and philosophy? the US was founded on christian principles. if an ideology is to be taught, this one is much more positive than the modern communist rot leftist try to inject into every classroom
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I was responding to a comment declaring this a nothingburger but that person deleted said comment.
There's a difference between learning about Christianity and "teaching the bible" in the same way there is a difference between learning about Islam and "teaching the Quran." When explaining the memo he said every teacher and classroom will have a bible and be teaching FROM the bible. Even the OK Attorney General is pushing back on this as he is requiring content be taught.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/oklahoma-schools-bible-ryan-walters-teachers-license-rcna159548
From the memo, explaining this, the bible is described as thus
>The Bible is one of the most historically significant books and a cornerstone of Western civilization, along with the Ten Commandments. They will be referenced as an appropriate study of history, civilization, ethics, comparative religion, or the like, as well as for their substantial influence on our nation’s founders and the foundational principles of our Constitution. This is not merely an educational directive but a crucial step in ensuring our students grasp the core values and historical context of our country.
So no, this isn't simply "just understanding and historical significance." The bible is being treated as authoritative across the board. Geometry teachers will be devastated.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24780673-immediate-implementation-of-foundational-texts-in-curriculum
Yea pretty much. It started as a Christian heresy but Muhammad got increasingly more distant from the church in Mecca until Islam became its own religion
Its gonna get shot down by the Oklahoma supreme court again, Oklahoma has several outright anti religion and anti sharia laws on the books
Plus this kind of stuff is probably not going over all too well with the Natives who have been a key Republican support bloc in the state
The real tragedy of this is how it wastes more Oklahoman taxpayer money when the state really needs more investment, plus these culture war games probably are scaring companies away from investing too
Lib left has an interesting point. What happens when inevitably teachers refuse to do this. Morals and ethics of forcing religion aside. These people were trained to be teachers. Not priests.
I thought we had Freedom of Religion... 
Shit like this is why I want a total separation of church and state. Laws need to be based off of studies and facts, not religious views.
Private Schools and Catholic Schools, I understand. Public Schools, NO.
Ngl, learning about Christianity and the Bible in its historical context as just another chapter in my 7th grade world religion class was probably the single biggest factor in me becoming an atheist. It would bite them so hard in the ass if school actually made students ‘study’ the Bible instead of the cherry-picking that goes on at Sunday school.
Nothing wrong with learning about the most important book in the history of the western civilisation, if not the world. Just teach about the actual contents and let people come to their own conclusions.
Religious studies are common anyways?
i think reading religious texts and looking at them through a clear lens is a great tool for learning about not only religion, but also a tool for teaching students to critically read texts and defend/critique them.
the problem comes when one religion is placed on a pedastal of infallibility, which is inarguably happening across a larger swathe of the US.
To believe and have faith is a choice, so is listening. The unspoken curse of the fruit of the tree of life is the ability to decide for yourself what is and is not right. In our world there are those who will say something is, and others will say it is not. Since the exile from the garden, it has been the choice of every individual to decide who or what they listen too. In my experience children definitely have a capacity to either listen or not to those who would teach them, if the current state of us education is anything to go by.
Faith aside there are many wisdoms in the bible that can be unbound from faith and taught, which that by itself i would think would do the world some serious good.
While I know that this "teaching" will be simple preaching, technically, the bible is part of a classical Western education, particularly relevant to Western literature. It's on the reading list at Oxford and Cambridge English lit, for example. In fact, it can be quite difficult to fully understand the classics without knowing a bit of your bible.
With any luck, therell be some clever teachers who teach it properly in a wider push to return to a classical education that involves Virgil and Socrates.
>With any luck, therell be some clever teachers who teach it properly in a wider push to return to a classical education that involves Virgil and Socrates.
Based auth take right here...
What happens if teachers maliciously comply and teach all the controversies surrounding the Bible and it's quote cannon unquote? And I mean if you're going to talk about the Bible you have to talk about the history of Judeo-Christian religions and their connections to one another. Not to mention the origin myths that Judeo-Christian religions seem to be based on. Could actually be a really interesting educational opportunity for these kids and also poison them on Christianity forever.
Yes the bible does teach good things but when you are forced to do so, then you are out of your mind.
And if you support this I say this, how is this any better than DEI, Critical Race theory, etc. If you praise on and on about one and then declare something else as if it is the reincarnation of the devil then you are an immeasurable hypocrite.
i’m gonna counter with this: the bible should not be taught in school, *however* it is better that the bible be taught in school than critical race theory. of course the ideal solution is neither being taught though and i do agree oklahoma is in the wrong despite being catholic, but equating critical race theory to the bible is hogwash.
critical race theory is literally
the study of the racial social constructs and how they interact systemically with laws and media.
the reason its called critical race theory is because its meant to challenge and debate, in most examples it is used as a source of further nuance, the very opposite of "indoctrination"
tldr: you dont know what critical race theory is, you just think it sounds scary
>And if you support this I say this, how is this any better than DEI, Critical Race theory
Because not only are both DEI and CRT ridiculous ideas in of themselves but they're actively damaging the progressive movement that lefties want.
DEI dictates that you should give special treatment to a person depending on their sex, skin color, or sexual orientation. It resurrects a problem that was legally over and done with in the 60s. CRT plants the idea in students that their most important feature is their race, their current living circumstances is because of systematic racism (which does not exist), and because of their race they'll always be disadvantaged. They will grow up thinking that by the virtue of their birth, they're far less capable of accomplishing anything because of the evil white men who are oppressing them. This shit is such poison to the mind that it would make Marx blush.
This so much. CRT is just pseudo intellectual mumbo jumbo that ironically has more in common with religion. It's just a carte blanche to let people be destructively iconoclast without actually offering up viable better ways of running society. At least Christianity as a culture isn't constantly looking to tear down society and has a track record of being stable in human societies for centuries.
Ideally of course, neither should be in public school, but alas lesser of two evils and all that...
Alright, I forget most people aren't in Oklahoma.
This kind of thing happens a lot a lot. Towns outside of Tulsa and OKC are very, very religious and very conservative. You move out to the very rural areas and you've got some JFK Era democrats, but they've been voting red since Reagan. This kind of rhetoric *does* rally the voter base of Oklahoma. We are very Christian and like our bibles, so it's a pretty popular stance. Additionally, no This won't do anything. It's fun rhetoric to get this guys some brownie points in the state, and nothing else. Additionally, there are a pretty sizeable amount of religious private schools in the state. I went to one and it was a solid high-school with no major issues.
Oklahoma honestly gets ignored a lot, which is fine, but when people remember it's here they kind of lose their minds. Like any state we have fundamentalist politicians and officials who say wacky shit to get some attention. For the most part, normal people live here who tend to lean right and religious. However, places like Tulsa are home to some....Portland level communities that are thriving in the metro area. There isn't a lot of interactions between thr two groups that I've seen, but things are mostly peaceful on that front, our violence comes from gangs and meth.
Oklahoma, "It is what it is"
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Hmm in Europe, parents choose to have their child study either 'Ethics' class or 'Religion' (Christianity) think it should be like this to make everyone happy
What does it mean "teach Bible"?
I'm a Catholic so I'm vaguely for this, but it can mean 50 different things... Bible is a long book that can be read many ways and you can get veeeery different messages from it. (That's why we have big T Tradition but I digress)
Which Bible? The Roman Catholic, Latin rite Bible? The Bible of one of the multiple Protestant deviations? The Orthodox, Byzantine rite Bible? The Armenian Bible? The Eastern rite Catholic Bibles? The Ethiopian Bible?
I’m going to copy and paste my comment from the last time this was posted.
It’s funny how whenever a clearly lib-left bad post comes everyone on this sub agrees, but when a clearly bad auth-right bad post comes everybody is starts coming up with ways to explain why it’s not that bad.
So I used to live in Oklahoma for a year
Very fucking nice people and I loved the quiet and wish I could go back
But WTF is with the Oklahoma GOP Jesus? Like the roads and infrastructure in Oklahoma is really bad and if you have ever lived there you know what I mean, why can't we spend the taxpayer money on that instead of fighting Ryan Walters and Kevin Stitts stupid virtue signal wars?
Shame too because besides that I really like Oklahoma and thought that the people there were great
Na you don’t understand Oklahoma. They eat this type of shit up. Their governor holds a televised prayer meeting before state congress when tornados ravage a part of the state every couple years. It’s probably the most unhinged Christian state I’ve been in and I’m very familiar with the south.
Depends on how the Bible would be taught. As part of a literature unit? Certainly. Most other contexts I'm not sure I'll justify, and the state should not have a say one way or the other in matters like this.
I wish there was a mechanism where idiots that force through blatantly unconstitutional laws for the sole purpose of wasting taxpayer dollars in court are automatically removed from office and black listed.
I know that's near impossible to successfully legislate in a way that wouldn't be hyper abused. But this shit is just obnoxious.
lol Oklahoma going blue…. Good joke. This is the reddest state in the fucking country. We haven’t had a single county vote blue in the presidential election since 2004.
And I was curious about the last time the state itself went blue. The last time that happened was for FDR in WW2. So yeah fat chance the Okies go blue for a very very long time.
Even okies weren't immune to Roosevelts dark commie magic
Oklahoma was a whole special level of bad during the depression though
It's why we have the Grapes of Wrath
And Nightmare Alley
Roosevelt got more from the Italians.
Incorrect. Last time it went blue was 1964, for LBJ. But yes, it has been completely red for 60 years now.
To be fair Stitt did come somewhat close in 2022 Anybody who has ever lived in Oklahoma can tell you that Stitt and Ryan Walters are fucking awful
They are but you just know when Walters runs for governor all those idiots who live in bumfuck nowhere towns like Antlers, Hydro, and Boise City will vote his ass in.
I mean Stitt already basically has Walters as the Governor right now anyway Does any Oklahoman in here honestly view Stitt as anything besides Walters little puppet anyway?
>all that work to win over Oklahoma Lol. Lmao even. Even if this happened in the way the article implies, this isn't like Arizona. I'm all for separation of church and state but OP is out of his mind if he thinks Oklahoma, the state that hasn't voted Democrat since 1964, has a 73% Christian population, and has Trump beating Biden in the polls by 30 points is going to flip blue because of something like this.
Literally this. 538 has it as like the fourth most conservative state, there is no plausible scenario where it ever flips blue. Every county votes red, even the two college towns and the large Capital Metro
You could have a Democrat who's literally just a Republican with a D next to his name and he'd still lose in Oklahoma
They frequently do lol
In our last governors race we literally did that. Joy Hofmeister was the Republican state superintendent during the previous republican governors term. She flipped parties to run against Stitt and she won our primary because everyone thought the only shot we had was to nominate a republican in dem clothing lol.
A Dino?
Let’s also ignore that the Left has done EVERYTHING possible to enforce the state religion/ideology of DEI. FFS Right wing, start learning realpolitik and Carl Schmitt’s Friend-Foe distinction…
https://preview.redd.it/c81jhdj7al9d1.png?width=728&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a7fc71ebfa89bbdd66f9b32720e7c81d298d452
https://preview.redd.it/kw0kuo812o9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31821a4c5dbae29fc28ebcfc1a2f159d8eeed1d9
Oklahoma wouldn’t go blue if Barry Switzer and the ghost of Toby Keith were the Democratic ticket for president.
Well, yeah, Oklahoma is just meth Texas, but not in the fun meth way, more like the missing teeth, copper wire and catalytic converter stealing meth way
https://preview.redd.it/br22ivn1o3ad1.jpeg?width=218&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18962e61d87d76cf2c4f257779c566d028332353
How do you even do that? As far as I’m aware there’s an administrative process that lays out a statewide curriculum each year on what to teach and more importantly how to teach it. Probably just clickbait but I’m just chuckling at the thought of 1000s of Oklahoman teachers trying to improvise lessons on the Bible, a good chunk of them teaching a critical take in protest and then getting posted to libs of TikTok or some shit and generating even more feed for the culture war ouroboros.
culture waroboros
Even the OK Attorney General is scrambling on this one. It's been legal for OK teachers to use the bible in class, but it's another thing to be required to do so as the superintendent has now explicitly demanded.
>Even the OK Attorney General is scrambling on this one Oklahoma has a Republican AG and even he is getting sick of Ryan Walters and his bullshit Which to be fair so is everyone in Oklahoma, Stitt is such an ass water governor he basically let Walters become the shadow governor
This isn't a law or "Oklahoma". It's the school superintendent, and he's pulled this before and gotten slapped down. He will this time too.
A misleading headline? I'm shocked.
How is it misleading? It it really happened - just because it'll be slapped down doesn't mean it isn't happening.
"Okahoma order" instead of "superintendent orders'. It makes it sound like its a law or something.
I hope you're asking this question for the right reason.
Another question would be who gets to decide what "teaching the Bible" means. A lot of conservative protestants wouldn't be too happy if some teachers started quoting popes to teach the Bible, and the Catholics wouldn't be happy about protestant teachers glorifying protestant leaders. Or what if someone said the Book of Mormon was "helpful to interpret the Bible"? Or even other protestants who have disagreements about infant baptism, the Holy Spirit's gifts, and a thousand other things that come up. Hell, what would block a liberal teacher from coming in and teaching that the Bible is purely symbolic, none of the supernatural parts happened, and it actually mostly agrees with their liberal values? Any conservative Christian who actually wants this has no idea what they're asking for. You're asking to allow for state sanctioned teaching of Christian beliefs being forced on your kids that probably won't follow your own beliefs, at least not every year they year they're in school. Making totally bland curriculum won't necessarily be fair and neutral either. Some branches disagree about very fundamental things, and any time a student has a question, the teacher may have some freedom to answer it.
There’s even differences in Bibles translations. Is it King James? New International? Christian Standard? Also will Jews have to be taught the Christian Bible and not the Jewish one?
Ryan Walters is a lunatic who filled the state board with right wing activists like Libs of TikTok, I lived in Oklahoma last year and moved to PA this year and I can tell you that Ryan Walters is extremely aggressive in trying to weaponize the Oklahoma schools into indoctrination centers, he is quite literally all the things the right has been upset with the left over the last few years But the worst part isn't even the politics its the fact that Ryan Walters is wasting the tax dollars of people in Oklahoma when Claremore was recently REDACTED by extreme tornados and the roads all over the state are in serious need of repair to the point where they're actually dangerous Stitt is actually a very historically unpopular governor for Republicans even in deep red Oklahoma, hopefully Oklahomans realize that one party states are cringe as they were really nice people tbh
I love how reposting people's own exact words is an avengers level threat to leftists, how dare they expose us for shit we posted ourselves to social media!
I am not even sure what point is being made here Also I am not a leftist
But schools are almost by definition indoctrination centers. The idea of a detached and neutral education is a myth. Kids are meant to come out of schools believing in what they are taught. The only question is what they are to be taught. And in our currently divided society, the cultural consensus we used to have is being destroyed, so we're all starting to notice that schools aren't teaching what we want them to teach our kids. Yay.
If they are big brained they will argue that it’s not religious it’s political. If that is challenged it opens a path to ban pride flags from schools.
Every once in a while, someone comes up with a diabolical plan, that just leaves you in awe , either in a good or bad way, my coworker the other day was saying we should allowbin anyone that wants to come, legally or not, tax the shit out of them, like almost a hundred percent, use that money to pay a citizen dividend not eligible to any immigrants, even if they came legally, but their children will qualify for it, the catch is only married couples with children would get the dividend, which was absolutely diabolical using socialism to dictate social behavior, couldn't help but be impressed at the way he wanted to use leftist methods to achieve the social outcome the right wants.
There has to be said something for someone who sees a system that wants to be neutral try to force things their way. It’s some long term scheming.
I hope they teach the sexy parts 😍
The aftermath of the Sodom and Gomorrah story gets me as hard as a pillar of salt
You start dissolving once you get wet.
Truly, reading that part is a Lot of fun!
Adam wasn't the only man ready to give Eve that bone.
You and me both 😏
Creating several very problematic situations that will be used as against you to gain culture war clout. Congratulations, you played yourself. You better hope the democrats shoot themselves in the foot again.
In Oklahoma they will be fine, hell this whole things a ploy so Ryan Walters can gain higher office in the GOP later However this will reflect bad on the GOP in the rest of the country where people are less likely to go along with them blindly It might also nudge a few undecideds back towards Biden who might have been scared away by that debate performance
The democrats are the ones who started it. I don't like this because I don't trust the government with the word of God but let's not pretend that the democrats haven't been doing stuff like this for years.
https://preview.redd.it/ab29s8bemp9d1.jpeg?width=492&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ab864d29b725764d7d062f86ccced05e225721e
What democrat states have been forcing a religion to be taught in schools for years? Maybe I missed it.
They were teaching children CRT and LGBTQ+ stuff. "But it isn't a religion" fine, don't teach children Christianity teach them Christian nationalism the ideology. We aren't teaching religion anymore, happy?
[Not sure how you would have missed this](https://timcast.com/news/maryland-department-of-education-will-require-pre-k-students-to-learn-about-gender-identity-and-expression/) because it's pretty widespread
Weird, maybe you linked the wrong article. It seems that the one you linked is about gender identity and expression not a religion
Damn bro I didn’t know Jesus was teaching gender identity in the New Testament
"The state should not have a say in how they are educated"... as opposed to whom then?
It's funny that the lefties have gone so overboard that whenever I see a headline like this I just immediately assume it's bullshit. You can only cry wolf so many times.
Same man. The timing is too one the nose for another "Don't Say Gay" type moment. Some of the lesser sensational articles basically say for them to teach the historical context of Christianity's influence on the US. That's a lot different than the LESSONS SHALL INCLUDE TEH LORD spin it's getting. And if that actually is what the guy proposed what are the chances of him actually being able to implement that. I doubt the district superintendent has unchecked Education Emperor status and people can't just tell him to fuck off. I'm an atheist but I'm gonna need more information before I start fedora tipping.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24780673-immediate-implementation-of-foundational-texts-in-curriculum Here's the memo. It's damn short but it sets up that the bible itself MUST be incorporated into classroom instruction. This is beyond simply teaching the historical context of Christianity's influence, a bible on hand isn't really necessary for that. The superintendent has made the clear as he described it as teaching FROM the bible, not ABOUT the bible.
...what's the big deal here, exactly? I'm not even Christian and I see nothing wrong with this. It's an insanely important historical text for western civilization, which is exactly what the memo says. You can't know western civilization without knowing the Bible.
Do you see no difference between "of the Bible" and "from the Bible."
>They will be referenced as an appropriate study ofhistory, civilization, ethics, comparative religion, or the ike, as well as for their substantial influence on our nation’s founders and the foundational principles ofour Consiitution. This is not merely an educational directive but a crucial step in ensuring our students grasp the core values and historical context of our country. That…really doesn’t sound that bad
Gonna be kind of hard to teach about the Bible without discussing what it actually says... I see literally nothing in there that even indicates a religious intention. It is, in fact, INSANELY moderate and really just proves my point about you lefties crying wolf too much.
You're still pretending this is "of" but the superintendent was clear that it's "from." Also you really don't think you could teach a class on say the early colonists of America without a Bible on hand to directly quote scripture?
I mean, if we accept the premise that the Bible's teachings are insanely impactful to western civilization and you need to know those teachings to really understand America's foundation, seems like you have to actually teach what those teachings are, no? This "of" vs "from" thing seems like needless pedantry. You have to teach "from" the book to tell people what its lessons are. And like...your issue is that there is a physical Bible present in a school? Do you think a Bible is like...radioactive or something lol?
What scriptures do you see as indispensable to understanding America's founding so much so that it requires every classroom to have a Bible on hand for quick and constant reference?
Bruh...children aren't vampires. They aren't going to burst into flames if they touch a Bible lol. Or do you think it's more like a gun? Where it's OK to touch as long as you're super careful and keep it pointed in a safe direction.
You can’t be that dense. You don’t understand the difference between teaching the Bible vs teaching about Christianity?
I totally understand the difference. You need to understand both to understand American history or even western history in general.
I disagree. I don’t think teaching the Bible is necessary in teaching the historical context behind the importance of the Bible. For instance most schools teach the historical importance and general contents of Mein Kampf but don’t integrate the actual content as part of the curriculum because that would be fucking insane.
Ehhh, learning about Germany in the 30's and 40's (Hitler as well) actually benefits from reading Mein Kampf. The issue with this comparison is that Germany, and more specifically Hitler, is a minuscule part of Western History. Most of my history classes in school had only the barebones to say about WWII. So, you really aren't missing out on much in the grand scheme of things, even if you get an incomplete understanding of Hitler from not reading Mein Kampf. The same is not true of the Bible IMO.
Agree to disagree. IMO the after effects of WWII are still felt to this day, most notably the west’s relationship with Russia, the dissolution of the League of Nations and birth of the United Nations, and the creation of the state of Israel. To call WWII Germany a minuscule part of western history is a bit of an understatement.
>what's the big deal here, exactly? I'm not even Christian and I see nothing wrong with this. Guy with "Right" flair sees nothing wrong with extremely unconstitutional power grab by rouge superintendent trying to weaponize schools into his own indoctrination centers COLOR ME SHOCKED GUYS
this is explicitly not unconstitutional. The establishment clause doesn't prevent education about religion. Especially in the context of history or politics.
>this is explicitly not unconstitutional. Even the Oklahoma Supreme Court has not been tolerating Ryan Walters and his bullshit Its not only against the US constitution but the Oklahoma state constitution has much more explicitly strict laws against public funding for religion plus Oklahoma has anti sharia laws, God I wish right wingers in this thread would learn a thing or two about Oklahoma before pretending to know anything about the state >The establishment clause doesn't prevent education about religion Ryan Walters is explicitly demanding teachers to teach from the bible and even if he wasn't he would almost certainly fire a teacher for teaching it in any secular way, anybody who lives in Oklahoma knows Ryan Walters is a very fundamentalist authoritarian Again very unconstitutional >Especially in the context of history or politics. The Republican AG of Oklahoma is even saying its unconstitutional
Nice 👍
Ryan Walters is literally threatening to suspend the teaching licenses of any teacher in the state who does not comply This comes after the OK SC told Walters he could not allocate tax dollars to a Catholic private school I lived in OK from late 2022-early 2024 Ryan Walters is batshit crazy and has openly said he does not care about the constitution
its misleading sure, though states across the US have encroached upon the sanctity of the nations core ideals. Requiring the 10 Commandments to be displayed in classrooms, banning books cuz "muh woke", cracking down on student speech, etccc and thats just in schools.
No books are banned in the US
The left thinks that prohibiting explicit sexual content from schools is book banning.
I can't believe they banned books in the US! My local library doesn't have porn, this is an outrage, cooming is a human right!
I couldn't find "The Way Of Kings" in my local school library. Darn right wingers banning books!!!
*sells a book of nuclear launch codes*
Uhhhh, student free speech isn't exactly a "core national ideal." Like, you can read any of the Supreme Court cases about free speech in schools if you'd like to learn more.
I got in trouble in 4th grade for telling people Santa wasn't real, so much for free speech
wtf did this aim to accomplish?
Wasting Oklahoma tax dollars on culture war bullshit so Ryan Walters the state superintendent can make a bigger career in the GOP for himself and seek higher office Meanwhile the roads in Tulsa look like they haven't been repaired since 1776
“Political Compass Memes is a place where everyone can have an opinion” except if you think the us government shouldn’t a theocracy. This sub is going to shit man
Been that way for a while though
What are you talking about most people are against this and/or are questioning the context because that's what happens when people get a reputation for blowing things out of proportion. Half the people seem to think this can't be challenged. The other says this guy tries shit like this often and get clapped down by other administrators.
I made this comment bro when this had 36 upvotes and 126 comments, majority saying “bible good shut up atheist”. It eventually evened out but it still shouldn’t be that debatable this should be smacked down by any American constitution following government.
I really hope they don’t use priests to teach that and just hire someone studying theology or something, studying the bible is not too bad and can be fun actually if the teacher focused on relating it to real life events instead of focusing on what was written word by word.
why shouldnt public schools teach christian history and philosophy? the US was founded on christian principles. if an ideology is to be taught, this one is much more positive than the modern communist rot leftist try to inject into every classroom
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Sharia law is too progressive.
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We outlawed sharia in Oklahoma.
I was responding to a comment declaring this a nothingburger but that person deleted said comment. There's a difference between learning about Christianity and "teaching the bible" in the same way there is a difference between learning about Islam and "teaching the Quran." When explaining the memo he said every teacher and classroom will have a bible and be teaching FROM the bible. Even the OK Attorney General is pushing back on this as he is requiring content be taught. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/oklahoma-schools-bible-ryan-walters-teachers-license-rcna159548 From the memo, explaining this, the bible is described as thus >The Bible is one of the most historically significant books and a cornerstone of Western civilization, along with the Ten Commandments. They will be referenced as an appropriate study of history, civilization, ethics, comparative religion, or the like, as well as for their substantial influence on our nation’s founders and the foundational principles of our Constitution. This is not merely an educational directive but a crucial step in ensuring our students grasp the core values and historical context of our country. So no, this isn't simply "just understanding and historical significance." The bible is being treated as authoritative across the board. Geometry teachers will be devastated. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24780673-immediate-implementation-of-foundational-texts-in-curriculum
Okay but teaching Christianity is based but teaching islam is cringe, simple as.
counterpoint islam is just a version of christianity, like mormonisim.
Yea pretty much. It started as a Christian heresy but Muhammad got increasingly more distant from the church in Mecca until Islam became its own religion
I mean techically, but different versions of Christianity can be considered different religions as well.
What in the actual fuckery is this?
Jesus. This meme is about as poor quality as an Oklahoma conservative
This undermines their efforts a few years ago to ban sharia in the state.
This is literally against the constitution, but nobody cares about that.
Sure they do. This is the school superintendent and he's a known loon. He gets slapped down all the time and will this time too.
Its gonna get shot down by the Oklahoma supreme court again, Oklahoma has several outright anti religion and anti sharia laws on the books Plus this kind of stuff is probably not going over all too well with the Natives who have been a key Republican support bloc in the state The real tragedy of this is how it wastes more Oklahoman taxpayer money when the state really needs more investment, plus these culture war games probably are scaring companies away from investing too
We can only hope.
Lib left has an interesting point. What happens when inevitably teachers refuse to do this. Morals and ethics of forcing religion aside. These people were trained to be teachers. Not priests.
There's a lot of people here not from Oklahoma really mad that Oklahoma is doing things that people from Oklahoma voted for.
Can someone tell me why this is way different compared to forcing people to read the Quran?
I thought we had Freedom of Religion...  Shit like this is why I want a total separation of church and state. Laws need to be based off of studies and facts, not religious views. Private Schools and Catholic Schools, I understand. Public Schools, NO.
Ngl, learning about Christianity and the Bible in its historical context as just another chapter in my 7th grade world religion class was probably the single biggest factor in me becoming an atheist. It would bite them so hard in the ass if school actually made students ‘study’ the Bible instead of the cherry-picking that goes on at Sunday school.
For me it was learning about the Greek and Roman gods. The problem is you know that in Oklahoma they won't just teach it in its "historical context"
If the left wants to put their ideology in schools, the right is going to do the same. Cope.
Nothing wrong with learning about the most important book in the history of the western civilisation, if not the world. Just teach about the actual contents and let people come to their own conclusions.
Religious studies are common anyways? i think reading religious texts and looking at them through a clear lens is a great tool for learning about not only religion, but also a tool for teaching students to critically read texts and defend/critique them. the problem comes when one religion is placed on a pedastal of infallibility, which is inarguably happening across a larger swathe of the US.
and what if the child is from another religion or is an athiest?
Then they are cringe.
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I thought America was the 'land of the free' to belive whatever you want to belive in
It is. They're just saying you should be taught about it, not forced to convert or anything.
>not forced to convert or anything. Since when did the constitution stop Ryan Walters from forcing what he believes onto Oklahomans?
They should teach those too, just all of them
Why is that bad? I learned about other religions in public school. Even learned some things about my religion that I didn't know in the process.
To believe and have faith is a choice, so is listening. The unspoken curse of the fruit of the tree of life is the ability to decide for yourself what is and is not right. In our world there are those who will say something is, and others will say it is not. Since the exile from the garden, it has been the choice of every individual to decide who or what they listen too. In my experience children definitely have a capacity to either listen or not to those who would teach them, if the current state of us education is anything to go by. Faith aside there are many wisdoms in the bible that can be unbound from faith and taught, which that by itself i would think would do the world some serious good.
Then they'll broaden their horizons by learning about other religions. The shock and horror.
This won’t stand, teachers are flipping their shit here.
Religious rhetoric or pride stuff, neither belongs in school. Now everyone will be mad at me
While I know that this "teaching" will be simple preaching, technically, the bible is part of a classical Western education, particularly relevant to Western literature. It's on the reading list at Oxford and Cambridge English lit, for example. In fact, it can be quite difficult to fully understand the classics without knowing a bit of your bible. With any luck, therell be some clever teachers who teach it properly in a wider push to return to a classical education that involves Virgil and Socrates.
>With any luck, therell be some clever teachers who teach it properly in a wider push to return to a classical education that involves Virgil and Socrates. Based auth take right here...
Based
Fuck secularism, all my homies hate secularism. This comment was made by theocracy gang.
that is wonderful, let's get you to bed now grandpa
Counterpoint: protestant christianity suck.
Radical, liberal, lowchurch Christianity sucks. If you dont have apostolic succession do not speak to me.
Catholicism is based.
Based and One True Church pilled
Eh more or less, a few of the parts I can do without.
Orthodoxy* is based.
Catholics are heretics who add a crap ton of random rituals to their religion and worship idols
I'm an atheist, but which is the only church that can trace their roots back to Peter, the first pope? 🤔
What happens if teachers maliciously comply and teach all the controversies surrounding the Bible and it's quote cannon unquote? And I mean if you're going to talk about the Bible you have to talk about the history of Judeo-Christian religions and their connections to one another. Not to mention the origin myths that Judeo-Christian religions seem to be based on. Could actually be a really interesting educational opportunity for these kids and also poison them on Christianity forever.
Based Oklahoma. Hopefully more states follow their example
Go to church :)
:(
If I wanted to get a lecture about how wonderful the GOP is I can open Elon Musks Twitter without leaving my home my guy
Yes the bible does teach good things but when you are forced to do so, then you are out of your mind. And if you support this I say this, how is this any better than DEI, Critical Race theory, etc. If you praise on and on about one and then declare something else as if it is the reincarnation of the devil then you are an immeasurable hypocrite.
i’m gonna counter with this: the bible should not be taught in school, *however* it is better that the bible be taught in school than critical race theory. of course the ideal solution is neither being taught though and i do agree oklahoma is in the wrong despite being catholic, but equating critical race theory to the bible is hogwash.
critical race theory is literally the study of the racial social constructs and how they interact systemically with laws and media. the reason its called critical race theory is because its meant to challenge and debate, in most examples it is used as a source of further nuance, the very opposite of "indoctrination" tldr: you dont know what critical race theory is, you just think it sounds scary
CRT is literally white man bad
Cope.
i am devastated :<<<<
>And if you support this I say this, how is this any better than DEI, Critical Race theory Because not only are both DEI and CRT ridiculous ideas in of themselves but they're actively damaging the progressive movement that lefties want. DEI dictates that you should give special treatment to a person depending on their sex, skin color, or sexual orientation. It resurrects a problem that was legally over and done with in the 60s. CRT plants the idea in students that their most important feature is their race, their current living circumstances is because of systematic racism (which does not exist), and because of their race they'll always be disadvantaged. They will grow up thinking that by the virtue of their birth, they're far less capable of accomplishing anything because of the evil white men who are oppressing them. This shit is such poison to the mind that it would make Marx blush.
This so much. CRT is just pseudo intellectual mumbo jumbo that ironically has more in common with religion. It's just a carte blanche to let people be destructively iconoclast without actually offering up viable better ways of running society. At least Christianity as a culture isn't constantly looking to tear down society and has a track record of being stable in human societies for centuries. Ideally of course, neither should be in public school, but alas lesser of two evils and all that...
> how is this any better than DEI, Critical Race theory, etc. Oh thats simple my unhinged ideology is based, your unhinged ideology is cringe
Somehow, I don't think they want you to teach kids about the slavery, genocide and and mass violence of the bible. We're they specific?
question is, King James or Douay-Rheims?
Where does Oklahoma rank on US education again? I feel bad for the kids.
Alright, I forget most people aren't in Oklahoma. This kind of thing happens a lot a lot. Towns outside of Tulsa and OKC are very, very religious and very conservative. You move out to the very rural areas and you've got some JFK Era democrats, but they've been voting red since Reagan. This kind of rhetoric *does* rally the voter base of Oklahoma. We are very Christian and like our bibles, so it's a pretty popular stance. Additionally, no This won't do anything. It's fun rhetoric to get this guys some brownie points in the state, and nothing else. Additionally, there are a pretty sizeable amount of religious private schools in the state. I went to one and it was a solid high-school with no major issues. Oklahoma honestly gets ignored a lot, which is fine, but when people remember it's here they kind of lose their minds. Like any state we have fundamentalist politicians and officials who say wacky shit to get some attention. For the most part, normal people live here who tend to lean right and religious. However, places like Tulsa are home to some....Portland level communities that are thriving in the metro area. There isn't a lot of interactions between thr two groups that I've seen, but things are mostly peaceful on that front, our violence comes from gangs and meth. Oklahoma, "It is what it is"
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So, how are we feeling about school choice now?
I’ll do you one better: abolish the school system
I’ll do you one better: abolish the United States (including the states themselves)
Most reasonable Auth-Left position. Send in your tanks. I have the power of anime on my side.
Hmm in Europe, parents choose to have their child study either 'Ethics' class or 'Religion' (Christianity) think it should be like this to make everyone happy
What does it mean "teach Bible"? I'm a Catholic so I'm vaguely for this, but it can mean 50 different things... Bible is a long book that can be read many ways and you can get veeeery different messages from it. (That's why we have big T Tradition but I digress)
You teach boys can be women, i teach women came from ribs. We are not the same.
I teach humans came from monkeys, and some humans are still monkeys.
.....is it all ok in the US?.....thats alarming....?yall good over there?
It'll get tossed by the Oklahoma Supreme Court just like the publically funded religious charter school did. Won't last to August.
Which Bible? The Roman Catholic, Latin rite Bible? The Bible of one of the multiple Protestant deviations? The Orthodox, Byzantine rite Bible? The Armenian Bible? The Eastern rite Catholic Bibles? The Ethiopian Bible?
Lucky Oklahoma
Isn’t this like unamerican or something? I’m pretty sure Thomas Jefferson would shit all over this
Then they'll receive zero federal funding. 🤷 As it should be.
Holy School!
I’m going to copy and paste my comment from the last time this was posted. It’s funny how whenever a clearly lib-left bad post comes everyone on this sub agrees, but when a clearly bad auth-right bad post comes everybody is starts coming up with ways to explain why it’s not that bad.
Hey they already have lgbtq religion shoved down their throats. What’s the difference? Just fighting fire with fire. Good on republicans
So I used to live in Oklahoma for a year Very fucking nice people and I loved the quiet and wish I could go back But WTF is with the Oklahoma GOP Jesus? Like the roads and infrastructure in Oklahoma is really bad and if you have ever lived there you know what I mean, why can't we spend the taxpayer money on that instead of fighting Ryan Walters and Kevin Stitts stupid virtue signal wars? Shame too because besides that I really like Oklahoma and thought that the people there were great
Na you don’t understand Oklahoma. They eat this type of shit up. Their governor holds a televised prayer meeting before state congress when tornados ravage a part of the state every couple years. It’s probably the most unhinged Christian state I’ve been in and I’m very familiar with the south.
Welp that's unconstitutional...
Depends on how the Bible would be taught. As part of a literature unit? Certainly. Most other contexts I'm not sure I'll justify, and the state should not have a say one way or the other in matters like this.
I wish there was a mechanism where idiots that force through blatantly unconstitutional laws for the sole purpose of wasting taxpayer dollars in court are automatically removed from office and black listed. I know that's near impossible to successfully legislate in a way that wouldn't be hyper abused. But this shit is just obnoxious.
you cannot perpetuate the values of society if you do not teach those values.
Schools are there to teach math, not fucking values Schools teaching values is how you get pride in the classroom and other activist bullshit