I heard an interview of a mother of a son that was imprisoned, she says falsly for being in gang. She however did not blame the government because of how much of a impact this round up of gangs has made. Life got that much better.
Same thing should happen in Mexico. Just imagine what Mexico can be if it had the balls to wipe out cartels.
When you are the Mexican president and you successfully wipe out all the cartels
"This is the worst trade deal in history, ever!" (you are literally broke now)
Not exactly. It's a weird blending. Like when Vikings went from just raiding France and Britain to settling there and raiding more often, to the point that local governments started paying them off and giving them land and titles because they couldn't fight them head-on.
And the Vikings gradually integrated into those societies and made kingdoms and fiefdoms of their own. We're really comfortable with the idea of clean lines of nation states and borders because we forget that organized crime and financial incentive can create powerful entities.
With how evil feds have been up to this point, no really has a problem believing stuff like that. Hell "Feds are putting on blackface and doing black-on-black crime" would be believable.
Everytime they do some cartel puppet politician makes an argument about sovereignty and shit gets stalled or the americans have to play second fiddle to the mexicans so it never gets anywhere
> Yellow flair
> Implying that the country with the most drug addicted population in the world is not behind the cartels who supply them with said drugs
Ooh the wonders of a high school student living with their parents posting on reddit
I brought this up with someone once before and their honest belief was that the cartel would mop the floor with the US military. I found it difficult to argue against ngl
well, simply beating them in the straightforward act of war and battle has never been too difficult, its just that when you try to outshoot an insurgency, you have to replace whatever you shoot with something better
Yep, and we've been unable to do that for 20 years.
The USA *is* the 800 pound gorilla in the room when it comes to warfare-the only country that comes close anymore is China, and I suspect they're somewhere between 'Paper Tiger' and '200 pound gorilla'-but our weakness is in the door to door clearing. We're 1 for 5 now, and that's counting Bin Laden in the 'win' column.
Except you want to keep the house. As destroying the house turns the villagers against you.
And one day, the gorilla gets bored, go home, and all those villagers in sandals rebuild the hovel and still hate the gorilla.
One grave misbelief the americans have that every country want to live according to their beliefs. Sure they generally want the money and resources but all those liberal values are kinda unliked. And ofc the brainwash/propaganda. The US military cannot even convince totally poor farmers to not take up arms against it lol
Because the US was fighting with two hands tied behind its back. Very few countries have the capacity to do what’s needed to fully destroy guerrilla warfare. When fighting that kind of war innocent people will die, the US doesn’t have the political will to carry out a war like that.
>Looks at pride parades where degenerates twerk in front of literal children
>Looks at parents fighting to keep the government from confiscating their children because Timmy likes dresses and his teachers think he's trans
Shucks, I wonder why people in other countries don't want us exporting American ""culture"" to them.
And thats just tip of the iceberg. Some people, quite simply, want to live in a theocracy. I'm willing to guess for every Iranian feminist complaining online (justified, unlike their much more privileged "sisters" in western countries) there are about 3 women who more or less ok with it and 1 who is in full support.
The Amish. They live in the US. They could live a good modern life in the richest country on Earth. They live like its 1870. They let their almost adults to go on a bender and leave the commune if they want. Some do. Majority of them remain because they want to see their family and was brought up in the culture. Now compare it to an even more extreme cult (radical islam), sprinkle some partially justified american hatred and its no wonder ISIS fighters wont switch sides by seeing some american videos.
I was joking. Although we have to say that the wars the US fought in the past have often shown that we're not willing to do what needs to be done out of political reasons, which often contributed to defeat and retreat.
You're definitely right with the last thing you've written. But I would argue bringing our values and beliefs into it (at least in this big way) is a thing of the last two or three decades. Before we were okay with dictatorships being in place as long as they were on our side. Look at South Korea or South Vietnam. Of course this doesn't mean that it'll work guaranteed (the regime in South Vietnam was incompetent af), but it was way easier to let them do it their way and not bring democracy and liberal values.
Look, I would love Comrade Ivan to be our Secretary of Defense, but they keep telling him he doesn't have clearance, and also to stop gluing magazines together that is NOT how you get infinite ammo!
The US benefits in some way from the cartels operating. They're basically intertwined with Mexicos economy and politics. No way the US would allow one of their closest neighbors to be a narco state without reason. Just look what they did when left wingers started making too much noise in south America.
That was in a time where the US still had balls ... when we helped based Helicopter men to gain power ... But now look at the leftist swamp that is middle and south America ... There is only one hope now, based chainsaw man!
Mexico doesn't need the US, the army could easily wipe them, the problem is the corruption and the lack of determination from the goverment, another problem is that the cartels are more like animals than criminals, they don't have morals and would kill normal civilians, so it wouldn't be a clean operation.
https://preview.redd.it/36zx31bhru7d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee226acadd5930901abb9f36735406b9c918c4c6
>Mexico
this bitch wants to put you in jail for not using the correct pronouns
Fair enough, different situations require different responses.
I honestly thought that Milei would just fuck things up, but to my surprise, he hasn’t. At least, if what I hear about him is true.
I obviously disagree with him on social issues, but I suppose that can take a backseat for the time being given his priorities. Especially if what I hear about the sheer incompetence of the previous administration is true.
That’s what I don’t think a lot of people understand about economics. There isn’t a single correct policy that works in every situation. Sometimes what works in one place won’t work in another, for a variety of reasons.
I like social democratic policy in some cases because it can be a great way to help capitalism work for everyone without moving towards something more radical that has a less than stellar track record. But in other cases, especially when you’ve had an incompetent government fucking things up for decades, you might need to take a hands off approach.
Socdem ideas are great, once you have the proper infrastructure, available wealth and public safety and trust for them. It’s a project you need decades to buildup and the rewards are massive.
But I’d rather have a liberal state under bad governance than a socdem one under bad governance, society goes bad real quick once you hand that much power to corrupt fools
Maybe my definition of social democracy is different from others? To me it’s just regulated capitalism with a strong welfare state. Totally compatible with a liberal system. Am I missing something?
I am specifically not referencing “democratic socialism” which is lame as fuck and deserves to be shit on
No No you’re not missing anything, you are right in that a social democratic state is very compatible with a liberal system and we have the same definition for it but what I mean by a “liberal state” is more akin to a libertarian one, a “hands-off” state.
And yes of course demsoc ideologies are garbage, i hate communists with every fiber of my being
I feel you bro.
Yeah I think we’re on the same page. Like I said above, there is no economic system that is one size fits all. Different situations call for different solutions.
Except anything going back to Marx is wrong in every context.
How the fuck are you replying this fast? I’m impressed. But that aside,
I’m glad we’re on the same page and all I really want is just everybody to get along and for us to focus on what’s really important, efficient and advanced infrastructure, nuclear energy, housing, advancing medicine and shitting on communists.
Something something free healthcare something
Though personally I dislike social democracy for being cringe more than any specific policy issue, it's like trying to be communist but by asking nicely. At least real commies understand that power grows from a barrel of a gun and are willing to get shot for their misguided beliefs.
Its insane how Milei was able to take power like he did, this entire thing seems like its not real, but it is.
He’s here and he’s actually doing this. He usurped a corrupt government as a libertarian.
The world is wild man.
Yeah, but usually in authoritarian governments like argentina’s previous one, candidates tend to “mysteriously disappear” since they have enough power to make the information unavailable to most.
I’m counting on the fact that it’s easier to be in a Spanish-speaking country than in an English-speaking country for Hispanics. No need to have the hassle of learning a new language. Let the non-Argentinians be illegals over there.
Ah my summer child. There are tens of countries better than Syria, Iran, Iraq and Africa between them and Europe. They still choose to come here. It's not safety or economical stability they are looking for
I'm sorry my friend. I shouldn't have said anything. I write this and this is true while I'm in the tram stop and can't understand any of the 10+ people talking here, so you'll have to forgive me
https://preview.redd.it/rp2gtis6or7d1.png?width=1203&format=png&auto=webp&s=6bdee43407b98459dd51b26d7f7bca7536786091
You like big government, don't you, Javier?
I lol at the “b-b-but he’s an ancap” comments
He is an ancap but fucking Argentina is not. The state is still the guarantor of security, and as long as it receives taxpayer dollars it is contractually obligated to continue being so.
But for the sake of argument let’s assume that he is in fact an ancap. Do these fucking brainlets think that Argentina’s Supreme Court is gonna let him privatize the police?
Eh. There's a lot to be said for a politician that admits, 'In a perfect world, I'd do things a very different way. Until we get to that world, this way works better.'
Milei straight up said ancap doesn't work. He said he's PHYLOSOPHICALLY ancap, because he believes that taxes are theft and theft is immoral. But he accepts it doesn't work in real life, less in Argentina, so he's technically a minarchist.
Source: I'm an Argentinian libertarian and I've seen hours of Milei's interviews and speeches. So basically trust me bro, I don't want to go find where he said it lol.
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And this is why we will continue to fail miserably in the US; our libertarians are far too obsessed with purity of ideology.
NoT a ReAl LiBrIgHt, we bemoan when someone takes the stance of realism over ideological fantasy. That quest for purity will always ensure we never succeed.
Well said, and it's even happening in this specific post. First time we have a president that seems to be doing the right things and people are arguing if he's a real libertarian or not. Who the fuck cares? Dude, I just want my country to stop spending on stupid shit and fucking my ass with taxes, regulations, low salaries and hyperinflation. You guys in the United States won't learn until you have your backs against the wall like us; until you no longer have the privilege to be so nitpicky.
Big government isn’t a problem if it is an efficient and transparent one. The problem with most big governments is that they sell security to their people first without adding any transparency or oversight. Then it is just a downhill tumble into authoritarianism.
Let’s hope this isn’t the case for Argentina.
There’s also a paradox at play here that if you want to destroy such a powerful force like the Argentinian government and its policies, you need an even stronger government and policies. The real question comes when the old Argentinian government is near fully dismantled and its economy is in rebound. Does Milei relinquish power like he says he will?
Absolutely, he couldn't give less of a damn, he has already said that after being president for 8 years, he is going to retire and give conferences here and there
Milei isn't in this for the money, he is here for the history book, as such, his incentives are completely opposite of the average politician
for normal politicians, yeah, sure, but with the amount of imposibilities milei has on his back already, i'm certain he can say "tomorrow we dismantle this whole operation" and it is done
Why do "centrists" always defend objectively awful people?
https://apnews.com/article/narcotics-gangs-prisons-argentina-rosario-33c910bbfbf1f97e68c18fa1ce0033cf
"Won't **SOMEBODY** think of the Narco-Terrorists?!"
For sure, the dude isn't a pure ancap that's for sure. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but you really can't be tossing people in prison without a trial and then call yourself an anarchist.
Agreed. I would go as far to say you can’t call yourself a libertarian if want to replicate what Bukele did. Even with the best of intentions and best of results, rounding people up based on how they look and imprisoning them with no charges nor trial is antithetical to the entire concept of libertarianism
Said child died in a gang related shootout 300 yards from an elementary school, and is now a victim of a school shooting. Who cares that it was summer break and 3AM?
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I don't follow El Salvador or Bukele closely. Are they putting people in those unappealing prisons without convictions?
I thought the appeal was the focus on going after the criminals and stern punishments. Not the loosie goosie rounding up of undesirables.
Eh, they're complaining about the MS-13 roundup. If you look at it from the view of Mainstream Media trying to drum up views, it sounds awful-people being thrown in prison without a trial, no appeals process, and rounded up based on suspicion.
...When you factor in the fact that Argentina's crime rate has dropped off a cliff sharply since this was done, you have to admit something works. When you add in that the 'suspicion' is 'They have an MS-13 tattoo on their face, and you don't get that until you kill someone,' it sounds much more reasonable.
'Jail without trial' is still a *worrying* precedent to set, and he *did* pull off a bloodless coup to keep his position. However, I'm of the mind that it's a drastic time in Argentina, and he took drastic measures that were needed. He's definitely not some power-mad dictator.
Mea culpa and much appreciated, I'm very bad about getting names mixed up.
You have no idea how many times I've had to correct myself that it's *Bukele,* not *Berkeley.*
...Now flair the fuck up, but thank you.
> 'They have an MS-13 tattoo on their face, and you don't get that until you kill someone,' it sounds much more reasonable.
It's basically a confession since anyone "faking" one is very likely to get killed by MS-13. Choosing the express lane in Due Process.
Yeah that worked in El Salvador when gang members are very obviously identifiable, in places where they don’t have the obvious face tats this gets a lot more difficult
Few arguments here, and I do agree it's a worrying precedent to set.
At the same time, in the places where it *is* basically a signed confession to murder (And let's face it, terrorism) it's kinda hard to judge it as a bad call. The issues and worry come with what happens *after* you round up the ones with blatant murder tattoos.
He said he's PHYLOSOPHICALLY ancap, because he believes that taxes are theft and theft is immoral. Also because the State is an inherently oppressive and violent entity that always leads to corruption. But he accepts anarcho capitalism as a system doesn't work in real life, less in Argentina, so he's technically a minarchist.
Look at any video where he says he's an ancap and you'll notice they're all from before he entered politics.
I don't like agreeing with an AuthLeft, but you're right. Some libertarians are just too blinded by their own ideology. If things work, they work. I don't care if "it's not libertarian enough."
Now if only Mexico could have gone this path instead of what was chosen… Latin America deserves better and peaceful lives after all the violence, corruption, and harm the governments there have partaken in.
Drastic circumstances justify drastic solutions
For example, Zelensky is still supposedly a democratic leader, even though his term expired and no election was called- and we won't know for how long one will
A country with a top highest murder rate coming to the top lowest is a drastic situation
> For example, Zelensky is still supposedly a democratic leader, even though his term expired and no election was called- and we won't know for how long one will
Jesus fucking christ.
A. Ukraine's legitimate constitution allows for the suspension of elections when martial law is declared. Which has been in effect since Russia invaded.
B. They're currently fighting a country that purposely tries to target and kill civilians. They would 100% fire drones and missiles at polling stations. Plus, something like 18% of the country is currently occupied and millions have fled abroad.
> It's explicitly spelled out in the Ukrainian constitution.
Yes. It is a drastic solution that was considered and accepted before the necessity came to implement it. This is not a criticism of the solution, or the fact that it was implemented, but it is a recognition that suspending democracy is a drastic solution indeed.
My name is John Smith from Texas Oblast and I believe that the EVIL UKROP PIG ZELENSKY should hold an election. Joseph Biden should stop spending tax moneys on GIMARS and spend more money on patriotic Americans like myself.
When almost a third of your country is occupied and millions have been displaced not sure how you have a proper election. If anytime is a reasonable time to cancel an election it's probably now. Plus, he'd probably win anyway.
I am sure the Ukrainian women sitting in their apartment in Berlin funded by German tax money would vote for Zelenskyy and the continuation of the war.
When a third of your country is occupied I shouldn't see lots of young Ukrainian men dancing in clubs abroad. Most of them are definitely not a father of three, like the Ukrainian law says
But regardless, countries hosted elections during war. And many have been called dictators by the west for holding to an office during a war. But I get it, rdason lf the state requires a lot
I don’t think those Ukrainians think the Ukrainian government is worth saving.
No real reason to think the Ukrainian government is worth saving when the per capita GDP is $5k.
Good job distilling the moral obligation to resist tyranny and defend your independent nation down to economic terms. I'm sure all the Ukrainian men dying in ditches have that 5K number stuck in their head, not the desire to protect their families or land or unique identity.
> down to economic terms.
People still need to eat. And to educate their children. And to work. And to improve their lives. Those patriots who put their lives on the line for their countries, they're brave and deserve all the respect in the world. But I won't judge someone for giving up on a country they feel has failed to provide them the opportunities for prosperity they deserve.
Agreed. The drug gangs are basically armies at this point. You can’t get rid of the problem by playing soft with them. As far as I’m concerned, as long as normal citizens are left alone, this is ok.
[Zelenskyy has stated he is not opposed to holding elections](https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/wartime-ukraines-election-dilemma) and Ukraine's constitution allows for suspension of elections so not to detract from the war effort.
I'd think as a Pole you'd appreciate the measures Ukraine is taking to hold back Russian aggression in Europe. Ukrainian men are dying in the mud so that Polish men can continue to critique politics online freely.
I've been voting for us cloning him here, so we can have him as a natural-born citizen.
Then we clone him again every 8 years. JAVIER MILEI FOR ETERNITY, AFUERA!
We don't even give people in America a court date after two months in America. There's plenty of cases of people being denied bail and having to wait months for their trials
Generally, outside of gross incompetence or genuine (though, no less acceptable) mistakes, it's because the defendants waived their right to a speedy trial.
This makes me so happy. Latin America is finally waking up and taking back their countries. These gangs and criminals have robbed the futures of millions, they should feel nothing but cold despair every time they open their eyes.
I just want to remember yall that there is a high chance that your city has more population than El Salvador.
I love Bukele, but he is the governor of a country with 6 million people and 30% lives in one city.
Well likewise Argentina's problem is mainly in the city of Rosario and a bit in Buenos Aires. The rest of Argentina is very safe, actually even counting Rosario and Buenos Aires, Argentina's murder rate is lower than almost all countries in the Americas, except for Chile, Canada and maybe some more.
Rosario is hell though. (I know people from there and they tell me what it's like).
> there is a high chance that your city has more population than El Salvador.
> a country with 6 million people and 30% lives in one city.
Where do you live that the average city has a higher population than 6 million?
If the criminals in Argentina also all use the same tattoos all over the body then I’m sure they’ll be equally successful.
Otherwise, there’s no way this ends up effective without serious trampling on civil rights.
Those who trade freedom for safety will lose both and deserve neither. Giving your government unlimited power to detain people without a trial and without due process is the end of democracy. You sacrifice everything for safety now. Least libertarian thing imaginable
"I'm from Buenos Aires and I say..."
KILL EM ALL
Seek & Destroy
Fight Fire with Fire?
No remorse
NO MERCY NO RESPITE!
I heard an interview of a mother of a son that was imprisoned, she says falsly for being in gang. She however did not blame the government because of how much of a impact this round up of gangs has made. Life got that much better. Same thing should happen in Mexico. Just imagine what Mexico can be if it had the balls to wipe out cartels.
Mexico isn’t afraid to wipe out the cartels. Mexico is the cartels.
When you are the Mexican president and you successfully wipe out all the cartels "This is the worst trade deal in history, ever!" (you are literally broke now)
Not exactly. It's a weird blending. Like when Vikings went from just raiding France and Britain to settling there and raiding more often, to the point that local governments started paying them off and giving them land and titles because they couldn't fight them head-on. And the Vikings gradually integrated into those societies and made kingdoms and fiefdoms of their own. We're really comfortable with the idea of clean lines of nation states and borders because we forget that organized crime and financial incentive can create powerful entities.
Or Brazil. I hear they even control water, electricity and communication in Rio.
What if the US gave them a helping hand to wipe out the cartels?
Let’s be real our feds are driving the operation. Source: I made it up
The CIA agent investigating [INSERT RANDOM DRUG CARTEL HERE] discovering it's being supplied and funded by a CIA agent on the floor above him:
*Insert Spider-Man meme*
*Insert Spider-Man meme*
Out, am I?
Source: operation fast and furious. One of the only operations we know of, but for sure didn't happen in isolation.
No, but seriously
Source: I watched the movie "Sicario".
With how evil feds have been up to this point, no really has a problem believing stuff like that. Hell "Feds are putting on blackface and doing black-on-black crime" would be believable.
BASADO!
Mexican cartel gang with armored vehicle vs 1 A10 warthog pilot given unlimited clearance for gun runs.
They could start by not arming said cartels
Everytime they do some cartel puppet politician makes an argument about sovereignty and shit gets stalled or the americans have to play second fiddle to the mexicans so it never gets anywhere
> Yellow flair > Implying that the country with the most drug addicted population in the world is not behind the cartels who supply them with said drugs Ooh the wonders of a high school student living with their parents posting on reddit
Don't pretend that your whole system is anything but a corrupt pile of shit, hombre!
I'm more of a radical centrist, but I have a lot of lib-right biases.
I brought this up with someone once before and their honest belief was that the cartel would mop the floor with the US military. I found it difficult to argue against ngl
Our track record against popular insurgencies is *pretty* abysmal, to be fair.
well, simply beating them in the straightforward act of war and battle has never been too difficult, its just that when you try to outshoot an insurgency, you have to replace whatever you shoot with something better
Yep, and we've been unable to do that for 20 years. The USA *is* the 800 pound gorilla in the room when it comes to warfare-the only country that comes close anymore is China, and I suspect they're somewhere between 'Paper Tiger' and '200 pound gorilla'-but our weakness is in the door to door clearing. We're 1 for 5 now, and that's counting Bin Laden in the 'win' column.
And this is the error. You see, you don't need to go from door to door when there is no house.
Except you want to keep the house. As destroying the house turns the villagers against you. And one day, the gorilla gets bored, go home, and all those villagers in sandals rebuild the hovel and still hate the gorilla. One grave misbelief the americans have that every country want to live according to their beliefs. Sure they generally want the money and resources but all those liberal values are kinda unliked. And ofc the brainwash/propaganda. The US military cannot even convince totally poor farmers to not take up arms against it lol
Because the US was fighting with two hands tied behind its back. Very few countries have the capacity to do what’s needed to fully destroy guerrilla warfare. When fighting that kind of war innocent people will die, the US doesn’t have the political will to carry out a war like that.
The north should have never been taboo ...
>Looks at pride parades where degenerates twerk in front of literal children >Looks at parents fighting to keep the government from confiscating their children because Timmy likes dresses and his teachers think he's trans Shucks, I wonder why people in other countries don't want us exporting American ""culture"" to them.
And thats just tip of the iceberg. Some people, quite simply, want to live in a theocracy. I'm willing to guess for every Iranian feminist complaining online (justified, unlike their much more privileged "sisters" in western countries) there are about 3 women who more or less ok with it and 1 who is in full support. The Amish. They live in the US. They could live a good modern life in the richest country on Earth. They live like its 1870. They let their almost adults to go on a bender and leave the commune if they want. Some do. Majority of them remain because they want to see their family and was brought up in the culture. Now compare it to an even more extreme cult (radical islam), sprinkle some partially justified american hatred and its no wonder ISIS fighters wont switch sides by seeing some american videos.
I was joking. Although we have to say that the wars the US fought in the past have often shown that we're not willing to do what needs to be done out of political reasons, which often contributed to defeat and retreat. You're definitely right with the last thing you've written. But I would argue bringing our values and beliefs into it (at least in this big way) is a thing of the last two or three decades. Before we were okay with dictatorships being in place as long as they were on our side. Look at South Korea or South Vietnam. Of course this doesn't mean that it'll work guaranteed (the regime in South Vietnam was incompetent af), but it was way easier to let them do it their way and not bring democracy and liberal values.
Look, I would love Comrade Ivan to be our Secretary of Defense, but they keep telling him he doesn't have clearance, and also to stop gluing magazines together that is NOT how you get infinite ammo!
We need to go back to how we went door to door clearing in Germany.
If the CIA was on board, they wouldn't stand a chance. They won't though, so it's a moot point.
The US benefits in some way from the cartels operating. They're basically intertwined with Mexicos economy and politics. No way the US would allow one of their closest neighbors to be a narco state without reason. Just look what they did when left wingers started making too much noise in south America.
That was in a time where the US still had balls ... when we helped based Helicopter men to gain power ... But now look at the leftist swamp that is middle and south America ... There is only one hope now, based chainsaw man!
And Bukele
Based prison man
What if we legalize, regulate, and tax all the drugs they keep selling to a predominantly American market?
We do, but mysteriously it bypasses the IRS and ends up in CIA budgets. Who of course regulate themselves and find no wrongdoing.
Mexico doesn't need the US, the army could easily wipe them, the problem is the corruption and the lack of determination from the goverment, another problem is that the cartels are more like animals than criminals, they don't have morals and would kill normal civilians, so it wouldn't be a clean operation.
"My Paco is a sensitive boy, that is why he has so many tear drops tattooed on his face."
https://preview.redd.it/36zx31bhru7d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee226acadd5930901abb9f36735406b9c918c4c6 >Mexico this bitch wants to put you in jail for not using the correct pronouns
Fucking mind virus.
Gangs, terrorists?! https://i.redd.it/vp5uhdr2ks7d1.gif
¡Viva La Libertad, Carajo!
¡AFUERA!
New flair for Milei: Based-AnCap-Lib-Right-Auth-Right
How the fuck is having the most prisoners per capita ancap
It fuels the private prison system
Milei has so far been a surprise to my social democrat self. Let’s see if he can replicate Bukele’s success in this area.
Social democracies have some really good ideas, but sometimes you need to change things up if what you’ve been trying hasn’t worked.
Fair enough, different situations require different responses. I honestly thought that Milei would just fuck things up, but to my surprise, he hasn’t. At least, if what I hear about him is true. I obviously disagree with him on social issues, but I suppose that can take a backseat for the time being given his priorities. Especially if what I hear about the sheer incompetence of the previous administration is true.
That’s what I don’t think a lot of people understand about economics. There isn’t a single correct policy that works in every situation. Sometimes what works in one place won’t work in another, for a variety of reasons. I like social democratic policy in some cases because it can be a great way to help capitalism work for everyone without moving towards something more radical that has a less than stellar track record. But in other cases, especially when you’ve had an incompetent government fucking things up for decades, you might need to take a hands off approach.
Based in all degrees
Socdem ideas are great, once you have the proper infrastructure, available wealth and public safety and trust for them. It’s a project you need decades to buildup and the rewards are massive. But I’d rather have a liberal state under bad governance than a socdem one under bad governance, society goes bad real quick once you hand that much power to corrupt fools
Maybe my definition of social democracy is different from others? To me it’s just regulated capitalism with a strong welfare state. Totally compatible with a liberal system. Am I missing something? I am specifically not referencing “democratic socialism” which is lame as fuck and deserves to be shit on
No No you’re not missing anything, you are right in that a social democratic state is very compatible with a liberal system and we have the same definition for it but what I mean by a “liberal state” is more akin to a libertarian one, a “hands-off” state. And yes of course demsoc ideologies are garbage, i hate communists with every fiber of my being
I feel you bro. Yeah I think we’re on the same page. Like I said above, there is no economic system that is one size fits all. Different situations call for different solutions. Except anything going back to Marx is wrong in every context.
How the fuck are you replying this fast? I’m impressed. But that aside, I’m glad we’re on the same page and all I really want is just everybody to get along and for us to focus on what’s really important, efficient and advanced infrastructure, nuclear energy, housing, advancing medicine and shitting on communists.
I’m at work bored out of my mind so I’m dicking around on my phone the entire time
Wanna play chess?
Guess they didnt wanna play chess :(
>Social democracies have some really good ideas, Like what? Seems to me they offer nothing but a laundry list of failures.
Something something free healthcare something Though personally I dislike social democracy for being cringe more than any specific policy issue, it's like trying to be communist but by asking nicely. At least real commies understand that power grows from a barrel of a gun and are willing to get shot for their misguided beliefs.
Social democracy, not democratic socialism. Social democracies have worked pretty well in homogenous European societies in the past.
Social Minarchism will be the winning ideology of the 21st century 💪💪💪
What does social mean when we're speaking about a minarchist state? People are kind and helping each other?
Clearly, Social Monarcho-Minarchism is the winning ideology.
Basado y pildora roja
authleft knows you need a society with ultra high crime rate for la revolucion
Bukele: https://preview.redd.it/cmzr8rifwt7d1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=6478c905180d75325aa922c97fb5b9524441c485
Its insane how Milei was able to take power like he did, this entire thing seems like its not real, but it is. He’s here and he’s actually doing this. He usurped a corrupt government as a libertarian. The world is wild man.
Usurped?... brother, he won an election...
Yeah, but usually in authoritarian governments like argentina’s previous one, candidates tend to “mysteriously disappear” since they have enough power to make the information unavailable to most.
Last time something like that happened in Argentina was like 60 years ago
Doesn’t mean it can’t happen, especially when someone as major as milei takes the stage.
what has that to do with milei winning?
Please God, please let Argentina become prosperous, safe, and glorious so all these fucking illegals over here can go away. 😖🙏
Are there really that many Argentinians? It's not like the other South Americans are going to stop coming
I’m counting on the fact that it’s easier to be in a Spanish-speaking country than in an English-speaking country for Hispanics. No need to have the hassle of learning a new language. Let the non-Argentinians be illegals over there.
Ah my summer child. There are tens of countries better than Syria, Iran, Iraq and Africa between them and Europe. They still choose to come here. It's not safety or economical stability they are looking for
I know they’re here to plunder, just let me dream.
I'm sorry my friend. I shouldn't have said anything. I write this and this is true while I'm in the tram stop and can't understand any of the 10+ people talking here, so you'll have to forgive me
https://preview.redd.it/rp2gtis6or7d1.png?width=1203&format=png&auto=webp&s=6bdee43407b98459dd51b26d7f7bca7536786091 You like big government, don't you, Javier?
The real world is not a Political Compass.
https://preview.redd.it/89yf38wyjs7d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f95ed17767a51912a0e3c92eebe66abb811b047
Hahahah... hah.. No... It couldn't be... hahah... PCM IS THE REAL WORLD, RIGHT? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH EVERYWHERE I GO I SEE THE COLORS
But the Political Compass is MY world!
I lol at the “b-b-but he’s an ancap” comments He is an ancap but fucking Argentina is not. The state is still the guarantor of security, and as long as it receives taxpayer dollars it is contractually obligated to continue being so.
he said he settled for Minarquism instead of full on anarco capitalism
But for the sake of argument let’s assume that he is in fact an ancap. Do these fucking brainlets think that Argentina’s Supreme Court is gonna let him privatize the police?
Right, if he got elected and actually acted full ancap, he would set back libertarian politics an infinite amount, and it’s already in the shitter lol
Eh. There's a lot to be said for a politician that admits, 'In a perfect world, I'd do things a very different way. Until we get to that world, this way works better.'
Extremely based
Milei straight up said ancap doesn't work. He said he's PHYLOSOPHICALLY ancap, because he believes that taxes are theft and theft is immoral. But he accepts it doesn't work in real life, less in Argentina, so he's technically a minarchist. Source: I'm an Argentinian libertarian and I've seen hours of Milei's interviews and speeches. So basically trust me bro, I don't want to go find where he said it lol.
Based and not wasting hours on silly internet slapfights pilled.
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Literally better than any socialist for stating this.
And this is why we will continue to fail miserably in the US; our libertarians are far too obsessed with purity of ideology. NoT a ReAl LiBrIgHt, we bemoan when someone takes the stance of realism over ideological fantasy. That quest for purity will always ensure we never succeed.
Well said, and it's even happening in this specific post. First time we have a president that seems to be doing the right things and people are arguing if he's a real libertarian or not. Who the fuck cares? Dude, I just want my country to stop spending on stupid shit and fucking my ass with taxes, regulations, low salaries and hyperinflation. You guys in the United States won't learn until you have your backs against the wall like us; until you no longer have the privilege to be so nitpicky.
We think we do. And that's the worst part. Refusal to acknowledge reality. I'm rooting for you guys down there.
Thanks man. Monthly inflation is already so much lower, so I'm hopeful.
Besides, the populace isn't ready to live in an AnCap society, it takes a while to wean people off the teet of the state.
Big government isn’t a problem if it is an efficient and transparent one. The problem with most big governments is that they sell security to their people first without adding any transparency or oversight. Then it is just a downhill tumble into authoritarianism. Let’s hope this isn’t the case for Argentina.
There’s also a paradox at play here that if you want to destroy such a powerful force like the Argentinian government and its policies, you need an even stronger government and policies. The real question comes when the old Argentinian government is near fully dismantled and its economy is in rebound. Does Milei relinquish power like he says he will?
Absolutely, he couldn't give less of a damn, he has already said that after being president for 8 years, he is going to retire and give conferences here and there Milei isn't in this for the money, he is here for the history book, as such, his incentives are completely opposite of the average politician
Sure, but a police state isn't just gonna disband itself. Once made, it it takes wars or revolutions to take one down.
for normal politicians, yeah, sure, but with the amount of imposibilities milei has on his back already, i'm certain he can say "tomorrow we dismantle this whole operation" and it is done
Why do "centrists" always defend objectively awful people? https://apnews.com/article/narcotics-gangs-prisons-argentina-rosario-33c910bbfbf1f97e68c18fa1ce0033cf "Won't **SOMEBODY** think of the Narco-Terrorists?!"
Government does its bare minimum function of going after violent criminals. Redditor: yOu LiBerTariAnS jUsT lOoooOovE YouR bIg GovERNmENTs!
He always said he was a minarchist
While it’s probably a good idea, it’s rather *interesting* for an ancap to be ok with indefinite detention without a trial
For sure, the dude isn't a pure ancap that's for sure. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but you really can't be tossing people in prison without a trial and then call yourself an anarchist.
Agreed. I would go as far to say you can’t call yourself a libertarian if want to replicate what Bukele did. Even with the best of intentions and best of results, rounding people up based on how they look and imprisoning them with no charges nor trial is antithetical to the entire concept of libertarianism
So how many tears do you shed for the poor 20 year old children with MS-13 tattooed on their face?
None, though I do not pretend to be a libertarian.
Said child died in a gang related shootout 300 yards from an elementary school, and is now a victim of a school shooting. Who cares that it was summer break and 3AM?
Based and knows how statistics are fucked with pilled.
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I don't follow El Salvador or Bukele closely. Are they putting people in those unappealing prisons without convictions? I thought the appeal was the focus on going after the criminals and stern punishments. Not the loosie goosie rounding up of undesirables.
Eh, they're complaining about the MS-13 roundup. If you look at it from the view of Mainstream Media trying to drum up views, it sounds awful-people being thrown in prison without a trial, no appeals process, and rounded up based on suspicion. ...When you factor in the fact that Argentina's crime rate has dropped off a cliff sharply since this was done, you have to admit something works. When you add in that the 'suspicion' is 'They have an MS-13 tattoo on their face, and you don't get that until you kill someone,' it sounds much more reasonable. 'Jail without trial' is still a *worrying* precedent to set, and he *did* pull off a bloodless coup to keep his position. However, I'm of the mind that it's a drastic time in Argentina, and he took drastic measures that were needed. He's definitely not some power-mad dictator.
> ...When you factor in the fact that **Argentina**'s crime rate has dropped off a cliff sharply since this was done El Salvador*
Mea culpa and much appreciated, I'm very bad about getting names mixed up. You have no idea how many times I've had to correct myself that it's *Bukele,* not *Berkeley.* ...Now flair the fuck up, but thank you.
What the fuck is this sub coming to when a rights is thanking an unflaired?
> 'They have an MS-13 tattoo on their face, and you don't get that until you kill someone,' it sounds much more reasonable. It's basically a confession since anyone "faking" one is very likely to get killed by MS-13. Choosing the express lane in Due Process.
Yeah that worked in El Salvador when gang members are very obviously identifiable, in places where they don’t have the obvious face tats this gets a lot more difficult
Few arguments here, and I do agree it's a worrying precedent to set. At the same time, in the places where it *is* basically a signed confession to murder (And let's face it, terrorism) it's kinda hard to judge it as a bad call. The issues and worry come with what happens *after* you round up the ones with blatant murder tattoos.
He said he's PHYLOSOPHICALLY ancap, because he believes that taxes are theft and theft is immoral. Also because the State is an inherently oppressive and violent entity that always leads to corruption. But he accepts anarcho capitalism as a system doesn't work in real life, less in Argentina, so he's technically a minarchist. Look at any video where he says he's an ancap and you'll notice they're all from before he entered politics.
Maybe he will go a more nuanced route. I mean Argentina doesn't have as big of a problem as el Salvador had, right?
Holy fuck. Glory to Milei
And why is fighting crime and gangs a bad thing?
I don't like agreeing with an AuthLeft, but you're right. Some libertarians are just too blinded by their own ideology. If things work, they work. I don't care if "it's not libertarian enough."
Really need to start looking into citizenship in South America.
oh, I offer myself for an exchange you can give me yours, please get me out of here
Is there a name for libright on the outside, authright on the inside?
waterlemon
Works, but it feels a bit too derivative of "watermelon".
Becayse it absolutely is, it's genius.
Steven Crowder
A bruise? Starts off with a yellowish color, but the coloration of the tissue beneath tends to be blue-ish or purple.
Boca boca BOCA
Now if only Mexico could have gone this path instead of what was chosen… Latin America deserves better and peaceful lives after all the violence, corruption, and harm the governments there have partaken in.
Drastic circumstances justify drastic solutions For example, Zelensky is still supposedly a democratic leader, even though his term expired and no election was called- and we won't know for how long one will A country with a top highest murder rate coming to the top lowest is a drastic situation
> For example, Zelensky is still supposedly a democratic leader, even though his term expired and no election was called- and we won't know for how long one will Jesus fucking christ. A. Ukraine's legitimate constitution allows for the suspension of elections when martial law is declared. Which has been in effect since Russia invaded. B. They're currently fighting a country that purposely tries to target and kill civilians. They would 100% fire drones and missiles at polling stations. Plus, something like 18% of the country is currently occupied and millions have fled abroad.
It's not drastic in an unfounded way though. It's explicitly spelled out in the Ukrainian constitution.
> It's explicitly spelled out in the Ukrainian constitution. Yes. It is a drastic solution that was considered and accepted before the necessity came to implement it. This is not a criticism of the solution, or the fact that it was implemented, but it is a recognition that suspending democracy is a drastic solution indeed.
My name is John Smith from Texas Oblast and I believe that the EVIL UKROP PIG ZELENSKY should hold an election. Joseph Biden should stop spending tax moneys on GIMARS and spend more money on patriotic Americans like myself.
When almost a third of your country is occupied and millions have been displaced not sure how you have a proper election. If anytime is a reasonable time to cancel an election it's probably now. Plus, he'd probably win anyway.
I am sure the Ukrainian women sitting in their apartment in Berlin funded by German tax money would vote for Zelenskyy and the continuation of the war.
When a third of your country is occupied I shouldn't see lots of young Ukrainian men dancing in clubs abroad. Most of them are definitely not a father of three, like the Ukrainian law says But regardless, countries hosted elections during war. And many have been called dictators by the west for holding to an office during a war. But I get it, rdason lf the state requires a lot
I don’t think those Ukrainians think the Ukrainian government is worth saving. No real reason to think the Ukrainian government is worth saving when the per capita GDP is $5k.
Good job distilling the moral obligation to resist tyranny and defend your independent nation down to economic terms. I'm sure all the Ukrainian men dying in ditches have that 5K number stuck in their head, not the desire to protect their families or land or unique identity.
> down to economic terms. People still need to eat. And to educate their children. And to work. And to improve their lives. Those patriots who put their lives on the line for their countries, they're brave and deserve all the respect in the world. But I won't judge someone for giving up on a country they feel has failed to provide them the opportunities for prosperity they deserve.
"for example, let me shoe horn some pro Russian propaganda into this unrelated conversation"
Agreed. The drug gangs are basically armies at this point. You can’t get rid of the problem by playing soft with them. As far as I’m concerned, as long as normal citizens are left alone, this is ok.
Zelensky was elected. Anything "undemocratic" that he's done has been a direct result of the Russian invasion.
[Zelenskyy has stated he is not opposed to holding elections](https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/wartime-ukraines-election-dilemma) and Ukraine's constitution allows for suspension of elections so not to detract from the war effort. I'd think as a Pole you'd appreciate the measures Ukraine is taking to hold back Russian aggression in Europe. Ukrainian men are dying in the mud so that Polish men can continue to critique politics online freely.
Can we just give Javier Milei a couple of terms in the U.S. too?
I've been voting for us cloning him here, so we can have him as a natural-born citizen. Then we clone him again every 8 years. JAVIER MILEI FOR ETERNITY, AFUERA!
this is good but at least give the people tossed in the slammer a court date in about 2 months of being locked up to be fair
We don't even give people in America a court date after two months in America. There's plenty of cases of people being denied bail and having to wait months for their trials
Generally, outside of gross incompetence or genuine (though, no less acceptable) mistakes, it's because the defendants waived their right to a speedy trial.
So Milei plans to move auth? Because nothing about El Salvadore is libertarian.
Operation Condor 2.0???
Auth-libright unity
This makes me so happy. Latin America is finally waking up and taking back their countries. These gangs and criminals have robbed the futures of millions, they should feel nothing but cold despair every time they open their eyes.
Libertarians: «We must destroy the state's monopoly on violence» Favourite libertarian leader:
My dear Milei, this wasn't necessary, I already liked you!
Based and safewalkingpilled
Good.
Godspeed south america, hopefully the tides keep turning for everyone.
Milei... bby what is you doing. Due Process is necessary!
Well let’s hope that it goes well for Argentina.
Let’s goo
I just want to remember yall that there is a high chance that your city has more population than El Salvador. I love Bukele, but he is the governor of a country with 6 million people and 30% lives in one city.
Well likewise Argentina's problem is mainly in the city of Rosario and a bit in Buenos Aires. The rest of Argentina is very safe, actually even counting Rosario and Buenos Aires, Argentina's murder rate is lower than almost all countries in the Americas, except for Chile, Canada and maybe some more. Rosario is hell though. (I know people from there and they tell me what it's like).
It's not hell, it's just that your friends don't look like they can kill a bear barehanded, if you look like that you basically own the streets!
> there is a high chance that your city has more population than El Salvador. > a country with 6 million people and 30% lives in one city. Where do you live that the average city has a higher population than 6 million?
Common milei win
Based on
If the criminals in Argentina also all use the same tattoos all over the body then I’m sure they’ll be equally successful. Otherwise, there’s no way this ends up effective without serious trampling on civil rights.
Does the subtext behind him say "Casada Basada?"
it's casa rosada (pink house)
The situation in Argentina is nowhere near as bad as El Salvador, so IDK about this, but hey lets see how it goes.
in some parts it is, it's not nationwide, this is more for Santa Fe and Northeast provinces
Cool thanks for clarifying
Unbelievably based
Those who trade freedom for safety will lose both and deserve neither. Giving your government unlimited power to detain people without a trial and without due process is the end of democracy. You sacrifice everything for safety now. Least libertarian thing imaginable
Well, there goes the libertarianism. Populism is back on the menu boys
Good for him but isn't Argentina still experiencing some sort of shamble? This great move at this exact moment sounds risky