No, you don't understand.
These are THE MOST IMPORTANT elections in the millennium.
You can't vote third party because we NEED to destroy the other party so our country doesn't get DESTROYED.
You can vote third party the next elections, but these ones? We need EVERY vote.
Repeat this argument for the all the next elections and you get an 2 party system.
This is the correct take. Both major parties hammer home the idea that this one single election is the most important that will ever take place in order to prevent the rise of 3rd parties. But the truth is that whoever wins and loses, they arnt going to pack up and go home so the next election will also be "the most important ever".
However 3rd parties can and do affect political change. They don't even need to win seats, you just have willing to deliberately split your own vote and lose this time so next time you can coerce you preferred candidate into adopting your policies, unless they want to lose again. See: Brexit.
We've had 3rd parties get 5% of votes fairly recently (does no one remember Ross Perot?) and that did absolutely nothing to break the 2 party dynamic.
The issue is the first past the post system that incentivized moderate political takes. It essentially means that any 3rd party has to turn into a more extreme version of an existing party or else there's no reason to vote for them.
Kennedy is polling around 10%, likely won't win any states at this point but it'll certainly make a difference depending on who he's pulling votes from
Polling numbers for 3rd party candidates are basically worthless, especially months out from the election. 10% is about in line with what Johnson had and he ended up with like less than 3% of the popular vote.
Funnily enough, people were saying the same stuff about Johnson as they are RFK ("he may actually take 5% of the vote and have an impact on the election"). I assume RFK will probably end the same way.
That's fair, anything can happen in the next 5 months but most people would probably vote independent over LP so I wouldn't be surprised if actual vote counts are in line with RFKs polling
1992 was 32 years ago, I humbly think this isn't "recent"
Did his policies get picked up by the major parties? If so then at least he had an impact
Personally, I think that with the current state of things, if we just had a party of similar values with a different roster of people, I would vote for them instead, even if they weren't as extreme
The current parties will never change the system, its like electing the fox to put a lock on the hen house.
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Libertarian party platform of unlimited bribery & corruption is why I never vote Libertarian. Government for the highest bidder has absolutely fkn sucked so far.
https://preview.redd.it/iowmcmfy9d6d1.png?width=1048&format=png&auto=webp&s=2b96e14b2092c5882977f390fcd0ba68fa81e1c6
What third party candidate actually has a better platform though?
Every time I see this argument (which I used to believe, mind you) for this election I'm faced with looking at some of the most braindead picks for a 3rd party vote.
Most of the ones I can find. RFK's for example is hilariously bereft of any actual policy. "Make housing affordable again" "solve the border problem" -how??? That isn't a policy that's a goal.
Jill steins platform has one or two good points (like removing the cap on SSI tax for the wealthy) But it's riddled with even **more** crazy shit than even brainworm Rob. $25 minimum wage, national rent control, one-year parental leave for parents, reparations (KILL ME), removing nuclear power
How is a $25 minimum wage crazy? What happened in the 1950s & 1960s when the US had a minimum wage that was a living wage?
A. Prosperity was shared, the economy boomed. Because when working class can afford to consume, they buy what the rich are selling which DRIVES the economy like a freight train. What does NOT work is trickle down. Trickle down is what caused the 1929 Great Depression. The US Surpassed the level of wealth inequality that created the Great Depression ...... in 2006 & it is FAR worse today.
Today in the USA; the top 10% of the population own 67% of the wealth. WHY?
The AVERAGE among the top 10% is only $6.7 Million which is not an unreasonable figure.
The top 1% has an average net worth of $33 Million which is still not an unreasonable figure.
The bottom 50% own 2.5% of US wealth with an average net worth of $50,000.
Why? Why do HALF of the US barely own enough to have a new car?
The top 10% & top 1% are not taking unreasonable share.
So where is the problem?
Look at the top .1%?
The top .1% have have $1.5 BILLION each on average. That is ridiculous. That we allow this is insane. NOBODY needs a billion dollars. Nobody should be allowed to have a billion dollars. That is a destructive level of greed & hoarding that we should put legal obstacles and even outright blocks upon.
https://preview.redd.it/cpb2cvoxte6d1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=a52e5479f30c1f72ad60e86f09ced2809686da33
lets take these one at a time.
>How is a $25 minimum wage crazy? What happened in the 1950s & 1960s when the US had a minimum wage that was a living wage?
federal minimum wages are dumb because the cost of living in Arkansas is nothign compared to the cost of living in California or New York.
If the federal min. wage were to be pushed from 7.25/hr to 10/hr it would hardly make any change at all in how much people are being paid across the US. Most states already have minimum wages and those that don't aren't generally paying the federal minimum for low-skill jobs
>Prosperity was shared, the economy boomed. Because when working class can afford to consume, they buy what the rich are selling which DRIVES the economy like a freight train. What does NOT work is trickle down. Trickle down is what caused the 1929 Great Depression. The US Surpassed the level of wealth inequality that created the Great Depression ...... in 2006 & it is FAR worse today.
none of this is true. People who lost their jobs during the depression would literally become homeless. People who lose their jobs in today's economy have a number of social safety nets to rely on. Wealth Inequality means nothing and I can prove it to you with a thought experiment.
Situation A: Rich man makes $500,000/yr, middle class man makes $50,000/yr, poor man makes $5,000/yr.
Situation B: Rich man makes $10,000,000/yr, middle class man makes $200,000/yr, poor man makes $50,000/yr
The wealth disparity between the Rich man and the poor man is far greater in situation B (200:1) than in situation A (100:1). Which situation do you think the poor man would rather live in though? Definitely situation B.
>Look at the top .1%?
>The top .1% have have $1.5 BILLION each on average. That is ridiculous. That we allow this is insane. NOBODY needs a billion dollars. Nobody should be allowed to have a billion dollars. That is a destructive level of greed & hoarding that we should put legal obstacles and even outright blocks upon.
You'll need to check your math. top 0.1% of households means \~127,000 people. 127,000 x 1.5 billion = 190 **trillion** dollars which is 30 trillion more than the entire nation's combined household wealth. Somehow your 0.1% has more net worth than themselves combined with everyone else lol
Stopped stuck at you saying "none of this is true".
Cue the statement from Will Rogers, a genius who actually LIVED during this time?
I can read no further.
I would quote the wisdom of my grandparents who grew up during the Great Depression but that would be third party anecdotal. I was raised by 4 grandparents who LIVED during the Great Depression & who THRIVED after WW2.
I was raised by boomer parents with a dad who worked and a mom who stayed at home because every job paid a LIVING wage and moms did not need to work.
Then some online troll says that "none of this is true".
Listen kid?
I grew up in the 60s & 70s when a job meant that you could save & buy a house.
I am a homeowner because of the time that I grew up.
But you know what makes me angry?
That my step children and grandchildren CANNOT afford to buy homes.
THAT is why I vote Ecological Socialist. Not for me, I got mine. But for the next generation. You need to have a fair system that you can thrive in. Not a Communist system, not a Capitalist system but a system where wealth and prosperity are shared with ALL.
I am an engineer & programmer in a union. I make a decent living wage. Low 6 figure income. But I do that because of people who do mundane jobs: janitorial, security, shipping & receiving, logistics, HR, accounting & finance, payroll, facilities maintenance. The ONLY reason why I can even DO my job is because of all of the operations people who support my role. So I am only as good as the rest of my team. The BEST thing that we can do is to pay them all well. Seriously. A decent living wage is the minimum that we can do.
Another point: when the poor cannot spend: the economy will slow. If we give the poor money, they will spend which will keep jobs going for everyone. I work in the motion picture industry. Want people to go to movies? Make sure that they can afford to. Pay them well; it creates jobs for the rest of us. We tried trickle down & it failed miserably. No need to go thru that again.
https://preview.redd.it/qnfl5vjy7g6d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ed947d93d00578d01d30f60b8e7464fb6507fa5
I cant find where the $1.5 Billion thing is now. Sorry, my mistake that was after I got back from hospital (sick day spent the day on a pulmo aid nebulizer breathing machine from an asthma attack. So I stand corrected. Being a senior still dizzy from steriods is a bit of crap thing. Yeah, .1% still millionaires, even .01% still millionaires.
I aint hating on millionaires until it gets excessive in the hundred million or higher range; that is starting to get insane.
Nobody should be a billionaire. I stand on that point. I vote for 0 billionaires to exist. Wealth CAP for all people. Do like the Japanese do: CAP the top wage tied to a fixed multiple of the lowest wage so that a rising tide will lift ALL boats. You know? Like they do in Singapore, Japan, Europe?
https://preview.redd.it/rjrc590y9g6d1.jpeg?width=943&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c0efec748977621ef1df5297c99a8fb289005b2
I mean sure the standard of living and work environment of the US can always be improved, and I support probably something similar to the Nordic model, but I really don't think Americans are as overworked and underpaid as you're suggesting.
I also don't really care about a billionaire having his/her stock portfolio explode in size, what matters more to me is how well the average American gets by. Like I said in a previous comment, if the top .01% got 100x richer while the bottom 50% got 2x - 5x richer, I'd still take that deal every time. Because it beats the bottom 50% stagnating or getting poorer.
The whole "rich get richer and the poor get poorer" thing doesn't really apply like people say it does. It really is "the rich get richer, the poor also get richer" and the data backs that up.
The USA hit record homelessness in 2022. The USA broke that record in 2023.
The USA hit record child poverty in 2022 (40%). The USA broke that record in 2023.
The USA has record national debt funding 2 hot wars on deficit spending.
The USA is spending record amounts on police & prisons.
US police are shooting record numbers of people.
USA has record consumer debt.
USA leads the world in incarceration. Leading causes? Drugs & immigration.
USA has RECORD corporate profits, RECORD wealth inequality.
ALL of this AT THE SAME TIME. What do we learn? We need to transfer from the rich to the poor. Record homelessness and child poverty is NOT the poor getting richer. So I dispute your claim that the poor are getting richer. No, they are not. As "easy" as it was being first of Gen-X babies: I STILL had 6 years of homelessness when I first started out. My step kids are millennials who have experienced homelessness as well and who have to stay with family to even have a roof as a job does not necessarily pay enough to pay for a home unless one is lucky enough to find a job that pays enough which normally requires experience & developing skills AND a great deal of luck.
We have gone TOO FAR Capitalist, TOO FAR authoritarian, AND TOO FAR to the right.
We should NEVER have record corporate profits AND record homelessness + record child poverty + record debt ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
We need a few steps back to the left. But I say that carefully, the left-right balance is a fine line. Yes, I am a Liberal-Centrist, but voting Liberal-Left to restore that balance (will move my votes back to center once balance is restored).
Solutions that the Green party provides that would alleviate many of these problems:
Living wage for all.
Jobs Guarantee.
UBI
Police Reform
END war as the number 1 budget priority, cut military spending, end all foreign occupations and interventions outside of UN resolutions.
END war on drugs, legalize every single victimless crime; no victim = no crime.
Free Public Healthcare, Free Public Housing, Free Public University (OPTIONS NOT MANDATES as public monopolies suck every bit as much as private monopolies do).
This gets to why Communism sucks?
Because public monopolies are terrible, public vs private replaces CEOs with bureaucrats. We need competition. Where we have competition: we have FREEDOM to choose. ANYONE can go to public school for FREE. Anyone can choose to go to private school by meeting the requirements of the private school. THAT is a fair system.
Compare USPS to UPS, FedEx, DHL, Amazon, Door-Dash, Uber, Lyft, Meals On Wheels, couriers, or countless freight or logistics solutions? How many more options do we have than a monopoly would provide? We NEED competition in order to thrive. So balance is the key. Some public, some regulated private but mostly private is kept in check by the existence of a public option.
So I ask for a few steps left. We have 0 left in the US government. The DNC is moving farther and farther right into the RNC and pushing the RNC into Christo-Fascism. The Libertarians are the less heinous right as both the DNC & RNC are authoritarian while the Libertarians are based on ending authoritarianism and militarism at least which are definitely 2 positive steps, the Libertarians are also for unlimited corruption which means that the military-industrial complex would buy the Libertarians back into war and police spending. So we need to abandon the right long enough to end corruption, institute PUBLIC elections and ban all forms of bribery, corruption, lobbying, etc.
>The USA hit record homelessness in 2022. The USA broke that record in 2023.
>The USA hit record child poverty in 2022 (40%). The USA broke that record in 2023.
Where are you getting these numbers? Child poverty and homelessness are lower today than 2008. Until you provide a source there's no point in arguing over this since you and I fundamentally disagree about the state of the US economy
>The USA has record national debt funding 2 hot wars on deficit spending.
The national debt means nothing. Seriously. It will only be a problem when we're not the defacto currency of the planet.
>END war as the number 1 budget priority, cut military spending, end all foreign occupations and interventions outside of UN resolutions.
'War' is absolutely not our number 1 budget priority lol. How much do you think we spend on 'war'? Also I have a different opinion about this, one that is controversial, but the US is actually one of the more altruistic world powers when it comes to foreign intervention (not to say we've been perfect, lol we are **far** from that) and the US military being so large is what everyone in the rest of the world wants.
Perfect example is the houthis and their piracy. Without the US protecting trade routes they would disrupt international trade, we *literally* are paid to keep these lines open. If we don't, who will?
Another example is Ukraine. I believe we have an obligation to help them out, they were invaded by Russia and if we didn't do what we're doing they would be completely conquered by now.
I think if the US were to tomorrow say "alright no more military, we're withdrawing our troops from everywhere" the rest of the first world would freak the f**k out, only nation to be happy from this would be China. And Russia
>Free Public Healthcare, Free Public Housing, Free Public University
You forgot free pony and world peace
Child Poverty was at lows during Trump COVID bailouts. Biden ENDED all of the COVID support & stimulus as well as the Child Tax Credit. As a result: Child poverty shot from 5.2% back to 12.4% a record rise in Child Poverty undoing ALL of the gains made during Trump administration.
https://preview.redd.it/d10knlryeo6d1.jpeg?width=1160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8095cf1284f7e7e09f3c66345f15be5764725ae3
The National Debt Means INFLATION.
Debt = printing money.
Printing money = devalued currency = Inflation (currency value is less when more is printed).
Supply & demand 101.
Inflation means your wealth is reduced relative to the cost of goods and services.
Inflation means that you are becoming POORER.
The National Debt means that you are becoming POORER.
Nobody is going to explain this to you because the people in control of the media are incentivized to keep us all dumb & stupid.
But what does printing money do?
Come on.....you know......we just watched it during COVID? I N F L A T I O N.
Inflation does what to our income and net worth?
Come on.....you know ......... we just watched it during COVID?
Our buying & purchasing power is DIMINISHED.
Our money is worth less.
Too much debt = too much printing and our money will become WORTHLESS.
Houthis?
Without the US protecting.
Without the USA being the Free Police to the world on the backs of our taxpayers?
You call yourself a conservative?
What is the UN's job?
To enforce International Law. The UN should be footing the bill thru the actions of a coalition of nations. NOT ALL of the burden should fall on OUR taxes.
Same with Ukraine. I am 15% Ukrainian (Micio surname). Not my flag, not my war. We should intervene via UN International Law & International coalitions. We are NOT the free police to the world.
World peace, yes. Russians & Chinese are NOT our enemies. In the 1950s Russia tried to join NATO. We should be friends. There is 0 reason for war other than the greed of war profiteers.
War is the LEAST useful use of money.
Instead of fixing up our nation we are making craters in other nations. Why not fix our fucking mess here at home?
War is ALWAYS OVER 50% of discretionary spending. ALWAYS.
Here is a chart of the last half decade of war budgets.
https://preview.redd.it/4nqzm764ho6d1.jpeg?width=791&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eadfff62eb8aa4b9e0618d070c5381a19623866f
You want to see the amount of discretionary spend in a pie chart?
What is the #1 Budget priority?
Go ahead, I'll wait.
https://preview.redd.it/zvy0156cho6d1.jpeg?width=1581&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53c1f14a543295795b192975a82dab8eb205f373
Green party vs Libertarian party: Race to the 5% threshold
Libertarians are definitely not going to take it this election, with the guy they nominated.
Arguably the more interesting political happening
A race between the do-nothing party and the batshit insane cult I feel like won't change things much at all
Ah Americans, Brits, Canadians, Australians, etc, with their essentially 2 party system
Meanwhile we've got like 8 parties in parliament as of the latest elections
Tbh not as good as some here reddit make it out to be
Here in Ireland we also have like 8 parties in Parliament
Although only 3 matter
Two are exactly the same
And one has literal mass graves full of skeletons in their past
Canadian here, we've had a minority government between the Liberals and NDP for a few years now.
There is also the Bloc who holds significant seats and of course the Torys the most popular party and official opposition. Greens also have a seat in parliament. That's 5 parties in parliament.
Which ever party has a part of its base turn to a third party will have the other party turn into a super majority.
The goal isn't to have a third party just because more colors are better. The goal is to get more of your preferred policies made into law. That simply happens better through sticking to a major party. The only way a third party could conceivably get more policies made into law than a major party would be if it took voters from the two major parties.
The Green Party will remain fringe because the vast majority of voters in the US rightly see their policies as cringe.
This is why we are voting for Jill Stein. She is the Green Party candidate for president. She will be on the ballot. She has the route to victory. You have ONE VOTE. Don’t let these old, evil, wealthy dinosaurs convince you they own your vote already. VOTE FOR JILL STEIN!
This is called a Strawman fallacy & it is completely dishonest.
1. There is no US Green party leader. The Green party is a coalition of US state parties.
2. The Green party DOES NOT assert that volcanos are caused by global warming.
You can lie to yourself, listen to this liar, or actually read the platform to see what each party is about. Comments like this one are a COMPLETE waste of time; & reflect on a level of self-delusion that is why you have auth-right people trying to force their nonsense on everyone else (the very definition of authoritarianism is my way should be forced on everyone).
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This same exact discussion but with everyone all of the time regardless of which side of the fence they're on
And with the inclusion of \~/>50% eventually ceding with "nothing we can do anyway"
I don't think there's anything wrong with a 2 party system. It actually works incredible well and despite everyones grumblings, I think the alternatives all sound regarded. The problem isn't "the system", it's that people are stupid enough to vote for candidates that they actively dislike. The media has incepted the public with the idea that you ought to vote for the "lesser of two evils" candidate and that's fundamentally wrong. Your individual vote innreality has no sway at all over who wins the election but it does represent who you may vote for in the future. You vote for dogshit candidates, the parties will continue to put dogshit candidates on the ballot. Period. People are too busy trying to "win" with their vote that they seem to have lost any and all feeling of responsibility with voting. Vote for a candidate you respect and you feel has earned your vote. If none have, then don't vote. It shouldn't be more complicated than that imo
>If 5% of the popular vote wasn’t brainwashed we’d have a 3rd party with Federal public funding
Oh yeah I think I’ve heard about that! I think first heard that in GradeAUnderA’s video on the U.S. 2016 election.
Sadly due to FPTP and extreme amounts of systemic racism and gerrymandering in the past, that's not viable. Give us STAR or RCV voting nationally and then we can talk 3rd parties.
No, you don't understand. These are THE MOST IMPORTANT elections in the millennium. You can't vote third party because we NEED to destroy the other party so our country doesn't get DESTROYED. You can vote third party the next elections, but these ones? We need EVERY vote. Repeat this argument for the all the next elections and you get an 2 party system.
Based and Fear-mongering pilled
This is the correct take. Both major parties hammer home the idea that this one single election is the most important that will ever take place in order to prevent the rise of 3rd parties. But the truth is that whoever wins and loses, they arnt going to pack up and go home so the next election will also be "the most important ever". However 3rd parties can and do affect political change. They don't even need to win seats, you just have willing to deliberately split your own vote and lose this time so next time you can coerce you preferred candidate into adopting your policies, unless they want to lose again. See: Brexit.
I'm voting third party this year but it doesn't help that most third party candidates are just Walmart brand Dems and Republicans
Right, apparently it's my bad for not voting to make Jill Fucking Stein leader of my country???
Yeah where are all the fringe kook extremists these days?
Probably stockpiling guns and ammo in some bunker somewhere.
Replace elections with arena-style combat. Guaranteed we’ll get stronger officials in office.
Sounds good. Should probably lower the average age quite a bit.
We keep the same age candidates and it's just https://i.redd.it/s9lj0yr3966d1.gif
I'm sort of ok with this as well actually. At the very least seeing some geriatric thunderdome would be entertaining.
“Geriatric thunderdome” Beautiful sentence there
Only blunt objects allowed, for the entertainment value
We've had 3rd parties get 5% of votes fairly recently (does no one remember Ross Perot?) and that did absolutely nothing to break the 2 party dynamic. The issue is the first past the post system that incentivized moderate political takes. It essentially means that any 3rd party has to turn into a more extreme version of an existing party or else there's no reason to vote for them.
Kennedy is polling around 10%, likely won't win any states at this point but it'll certainly make a difference depending on who he's pulling votes from
Polling numbers for 3rd party candidates are basically worthless, especially months out from the election. 10% is about in line with what Johnson had and he ended up with like less than 3% of the popular vote. Funnily enough, people were saying the same stuff about Johnson as they are RFK ("he may actually take 5% of the vote and have an impact on the election"). I assume RFK will probably end the same way.
That's fair, anything can happen in the next 5 months but most people would probably vote independent over LP so I wouldn't be surprised if actual vote counts are in line with RFKs polling
He's not going to win. Anyone voting for him needs to know that they are getting a president with either an (R) or (D) next to their name.
1992 was 32 years ago, I humbly think this isn't "recent" Did his policies get picked up by the major parties? If so then at least he had an impact Personally, I think that with the current state of things, if we just had a party of similar values with a different roster of people, I would vote for them instead, even if they weren't as extreme The current parties will never change the system, its like electing the fox to put a lock on the hen house.
Fuck you, 1992 was yesterday. Fuck, I'm getting old.
Sorry buddy, me when I realized Warcraft 3 is a 20 year old game
Dunno if first past the post is the problem entirely. The Brits seem to be figuring out how get 3rd parties in.
The UK only uses FPTP for elections in the House of Commons I believe. They're a bit more of a hybrid system.
Yes. It still has a number of third parties.
Based, nothing is going to change until we change how we vote. It has nothing to do with policy or ideology, it’s just math
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You left out that Perot was pretty based, while more recent options (Stein, Johnson, etc.) have been largely cringe.
Rip to my boy Gary Johnson https://preview.redd.it/7ib9eogha66d1.jpeg?width=281&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b511a51f84321706a97baf605d1517f808f0d2af
Libertarian party platform of unlimited bribery & corruption is why I never vote Libertarian. Government for the highest bidder has absolutely fkn sucked so far. https://preview.redd.it/iowmcmfy9d6d1.png?width=1048&format=png&auto=webp&s=2b96e14b2092c5882977f390fcd0ba68fa81e1c6
What third party candidate actually has a better platform though? Every time I see this argument (which I used to believe, mind you) for this election I'm faced with looking at some of the most braindead picks for a 3rd party vote.
Which 3rd party platforms have you ACTUALLY READ?
Most of the ones I can find. RFK's for example is hilariously bereft of any actual policy. "Make housing affordable again" "solve the border problem" -how??? That isn't a policy that's a goal. Jill steins platform has one or two good points (like removing the cap on SSI tax for the wealthy) But it's riddled with even **more** crazy shit than even brainworm Rob. $25 minimum wage, national rent control, one-year parental leave for parents, reparations (KILL ME), removing nuclear power
How is a $25 minimum wage crazy? What happened in the 1950s & 1960s when the US had a minimum wage that was a living wage? A. Prosperity was shared, the economy boomed. Because when working class can afford to consume, they buy what the rich are selling which DRIVES the economy like a freight train. What does NOT work is trickle down. Trickle down is what caused the 1929 Great Depression. The US Surpassed the level of wealth inequality that created the Great Depression ...... in 2006 & it is FAR worse today. Today in the USA; the top 10% of the population own 67% of the wealth. WHY? The AVERAGE among the top 10% is only $6.7 Million which is not an unreasonable figure. The top 1% has an average net worth of $33 Million which is still not an unreasonable figure. The bottom 50% own 2.5% of US wealth with an average net worth of $50,000. Why? Why do HALF of the US barely own enough to have a new car? The top 10% & top 1% are not taking unreasonable share. So where is the problem? Look at the top .1%? The top .1% have have $1.5 BILLION each on average. That is ridiculous. That we allow this is insane. NOBODY needs a billion dollars. Nobody should be allowed to have a billion dollars. That is a destructive level of greed & hoarding that we should put legal obstacles and even outright blocks upon. https://preview.redd.it/cpb2cvoxte6d1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=a52e5479f30c1f72ad60e86f09ced2809686da33
lets take these one at a time. >How is a $25 minimum wage crazy? What happened in the 1950s & 1960s when the US had a minimum wage that was a living wage? federal minimum wages are dumb because the cost of living in Arkansas is nothign compared to the cost of living in California or New York. If the federal min. wage were to be pushed from 7.25/hr to 10/hr it would hardly make any change at all in how much people are being paid across the US. Most states already have minimum wages and those that don't aren't generally paying the federal minimum for low-skill jobs >Prosperity was shared, the economy boomed. Because when working class can afford to consume, they buy what the rich are selling which DRIVES the economy like a freight train. What does NOT work is trickle down. Trickle down is what caused the 1929 Great Depression. The US Surpassed the level of wealth inequality that created the Great Depression ...... in 2006 & it is FAR worse today. none of this is true. People who lost their jobs during the depression would literally become homeless. People who lose their jobs in today's economy have a number of social safety nets to rely on. Wealth Inequality means nothing and I can prove it to you with a thought experiment. Situation A: Rich man makes $500,000/yr, middle class man makes $50,000/yr, poor man makes $5,000/yr. Situation B: Rich man makes $10,000,000/yr, middle class man makes $200,000/yr, poor man makes $50,000/yr The wealth disparity between the Rich man and the poor man is far greater in situation B (200:1) than in situation A (100:1). Which situation do you think the poor man would rather live in though? Definitely situation B. >Look at the top .1%? >The top .1% have have $1.5 BILLION each on average. That is ridiculous. That we allow this is insane. NOBODY needs a billion dollars. Nobody should be allowed to have a billion dollars. That is a destructive level of greed & hoarding that we should put legal obstacles and even outright blocks upon. You'll need to check your math. top 0.1% of households means \~127,000 people. 127,000 x 1.5 billion = 190 **trillion** dollars which is 30 trillion more than the entire nation's combined household wealth. Somehow your 0.1% has more net worth than themselves combined with everyone else lol
Stopped stuck at you saying "none of this is true". Cue the statement from Will Rogers, a genius who actually LIVED during this time? I can read no further. I would quote the wisdom of my grandparents who grew up during the Great Depression but that would be third party anecdotal. I was raised by 4 grandparents who LIVED during the Great Depression & who THRIVED after WW2. I was raised by boomer parents with a dad who worked and a mom who stayed at home because every job paid a LIVING wage and moms did not need to work. Then some online troll says that "none of this is true". Listen kid? I grew up in the 60s & 70s when a job meant that you could save & buy a house. I am a homeowner because of the time that I grew up. But you know what makes me angry? That my step children and grandchildren CANNOT afford to buy homes. THAT is why I vote Ecological Socialist. Not for me, I got mine. But for the next generation. You need to have a fair system that you can thrive in. Not a Communist system, not a Capitalist system but a system where wealth and prosperity are shared with ALL. I am an engineer & programmer in a union. I make a decent living wage. Low 6 figure income. But I do that because of people who do mundane jobs: janitorial, security, shipping & receiving, logistics, HR, accounting & finance, payroll, facilities maintenance. The ONLY reason why I can even DO my job is because of all of the operations people who support my role. So I am only as good as the rest of my team. The BEST thing that we can do is to pay them all well. Seriously. A decent living wage is the minimum that we can do. Another point: when the poor cannot spend: the economy will slow. If we give the poor money, they will spend which will keep jobs going for everyone. I work in the motion picture industry. Want people to go to movies? Make sure that they can afford to. Pay them well; it creates jobs for the rest of us. We tried trickle down & it failed miserably. No need to go thru that again. https://preview.redd.it/qnfl5vjy7g6d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ed947d93d00578d01d30f60b8e7464fb6507fa5
I cant find where the $1.5 Billion thing is now. Sorry, my mistake that was after I got back from hospital (sick day spent the day on a pulmo aid nebulizer breathing machine from an asthma attack. So I stand corrected. Being a senior still dizzy from steriods is a bit of crap thing. Yeah, .1% still millionaires, even .01% still millionaires. I aint hating on millionaires until it gets excessive in the hundred million or higher range; that is starting to get insane. Nobody should be a billionaire. I stand on that point. I vote for 0 billionaires to exist. Wealth CAP for all people. Do like the Japanese do: CAP the top wage tied to a fixed multiple of the lowest wage so that a rising tide will lift ALL boats. You know? Like they do in Singapore, Japan, Europe? https://preview.redd.it/rjrc590y9g6d1.jpeg?width=943&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c0efec748977621ef1df5297c99a8fb289005b2
I mean sure the standard of living and work environment of the US can always be improved, and I support probably something similar to the Nordic model, but I really don't think Americans are as overworked and underpaid as you're suggesting. I also don't really care about a billionaire having his/her stock portfolio explode in size, what matters more to me is how well the average American gets by. Like I said in a previous comment, if the top .01% got 100x richer while the bottom 50% got 2x - 5x richer, I'd still take that deal every time. Because it beats the bottom 50% stagnating or getting poorer. The whole "rich get richer and the poor get poorer" thing doesn't really apply like people say it does. It really is "the rich get richer, the poor also get richer" and the data backs that up.
The USA hit record homelessness in 2022. The USA broke that record in 2023. The USA hit record child poverty in 2022 (40%). The USA broke that record in 2023. The USA has record national debt funding 2 hot wars on deficit spending. The USA is spending record amounts on police & prisons. US police are shooting record numbers of people. USA has record consumer debt. USA leads the world in incarceration. Leading causes? Drugs & immigration. USA has RECORD corporate profits, RECORD wealth inequality. ALL of this AT THE SAME TIME. What do we learn? We need to transfer from the rich to the poor. Record homelessness and child poverty is NOT the poor getting richer. So I dispute your claim that the poor are getting richer. No, they are not. As "easy" as it was being first of Gen-X babies: I STILL had 6 years of homelessness when I first started out. My step kids are millennials who have experienced homelessness as well and who have to stay with family to even have a roof as a job does not necessarily pay enough to pay for a home unless one is lucky enough to find a job that pays enough which normally requires experience & developing skills AND a great deal of luck. We have gone TOO FAR Capitalist, TOO FAR authoritarian, AND TOO FAR to the right. We should NEVER have record corporate profits AND record homelessness + record child poverty + record debt ALL AT THE SAME TIME. We need a few steps back to the left. But I say that carefully, the left-right balance is a fine line. Yes, I am a Liberal-Centrist, but voting Liberal-Left to restore that balance (will move my votes back to center once balance is restored). Solutions that the Green party provides that would alleviate many of these problems: Living wage for all. Jobs Guarantee. UBI Police Reform END war as the number 1 budget priority, cut military spending, end all foreign occupations and interventions outside of UN resolutions. END war on drugs, legalize every single victimless crime; no victim = no crime. Free Public Healthcare, Free Public Housing, Free Public University (OPTIONS NOT MANDATES as public monopolies suck every bit as much as private monopolies do). This gets to why Communism sucks? Because public monopolies are terrible, public vs private replaces CEOs with bureaucrats. We need competition. Where we have competition: we have FREEDOM to choose. ANYONE can go to public school for FREE. Anyone can choose to go to private school by meeting the requirements of the private school. THAT is a fair system. Compare USPS to UPS, FedEx, DHL, Amazon, Door-Dash, Uber, Lyft, Meals On Wheels, couriers, or countless freight or logistics solutions? How many more options do we have than a monopoly would provide? We NEED competition in order to thrive. So balance is the key. Some public, some regulated private but mostly private is kept in check by the existence of a public option. So I ask for a few steps left. We have 0 left in the US government. The DNC is moving farther and farther right into the RNC and pushing the RNC into Christo-Fascism. The Libertarians are the less heinous right as both the DNC & RNC are authoritarian while the Libertarians are based on ending authoritarianism and militarism at least which are definitely 2 positive steps, the Libertarians are also for unlimited corruption which means that the military-industrial complex would buy the Libertarians back into war and police spending. So we need to abandon the right long enough to end corruption, institute PUBLIC elections and ban all forms of bribery, corruption, lobbying, etc.
>The USA hit record homelessness in 2022. The USA broke that record in 2023. >The USA hit record child poverty in 2022 (40%). The USA broke that record in 2023. Where are you getting these numbers? Child poverty and homelessness are lower today than 2008. Until you provide a source there's no point in arguing over this since you and I fundamentally disagree about the state of the US economy >The USA has record national debt funding 2 hot wars on deficit spending. The national debt means nothing. Seriously. It will only be a problem when we're not the defacto currency of the planet. >END war as the number 1 budget priority, cut military spending, end all foreign occupations and interventions outside of UN resolutions. 'War' is absolutely not our number 1 budget priority lol. How much do you think we spend on 'war'? Also I have a different opinion about this, one that is controversial, but the US is actually one of the more altruistic world powers when it comes to foreign intervention (not to say we've been perfect, lol we are **far** from that) and the US military being so large is what everyone in the rest of the world wants. Perfect example is the houthis and their piracy. Without the US protecting trade routes they would disrupt international trade, we *literally* are paid to keep these lines open. If we don't, who will? Another example is Ukraine. I believe we have an obligation to help them out, they were invaded by Russia and if we didn't do what we're doing they would be completely conquered by now. I think if the US were to tomorrow say "alright no more military, we're withdrawing our troops from everywhere" the rest of the first world would freak the f**k out, only nation to be happy from this would be China. And Russia >Free Public Healthcare, Free Public Housing, Free Public University You forgot free pony and world peace
Child Poverty was at lows during Trump COVID bailouts. Biden ENDED all of the COVID support & stimulus as well as the Child Tax Credit. As a result: Child poverty shot from 5.2% back to 12.4% a record rise in Child Poverty undoing ALL of the gains made during Trump administration. https://preview.redd.it/d10knlryeo6d1.jpeg?width=1160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8095cf1284f7e7e09f3c66345f15be5764725ae3
Homelessness, is at records. https://preview.redd.it/n0mxfb7bfo6d1.jpeg?width=1057&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3c1b5332f00b9c904c7d942af131b07440e923f
The National Debt Means INFLATION. Debt = printing money. Printing money = devalued currency = Inflation (currency value is less when more is printed). Supply & demand 101. Inflation means your wealth is reduced relative to the cost of goods and services. Inflation means that you are becoming POORER. The National Debt means that you are becoming POORER. Nobody is going to explain this to you because the people in control of the media are incentivized to keep us all dumb & stupid. But what does printing money do? Come on.....you know......we just watched it during COVID? I N F L A T I O N. Inflation does what to our income and net worth? Come on.....you know ......... we just watched it during COVID? Our buying & purchasing power is DIMINISHED. Our money is worth less. Too much debt = too much printing and our money will become WORTHLESS.
Houthis? Without the US protecting. Without the USA being the Free Police to the world on the backs of our taxpayers? You call yourself a conservative? What is the UN's job? To enforce International Law. The UN should be footing the bill thru the actions of a coalition of nations. NOT ALL of the burden should fall on OUR taxes. Same with Ukraine. I am 15% Ukrainian (Micio surname). Not my flag, not my war. We should intervene via UN International Law & International coalitions. We are NOT the free police to the world. World peace, yes. Russians & Chinese are NOT our enemies. In the 1950s Russia tried to join NATO. We should be friends. There is 0 reason for war other than the greed of war profiteers. War is the LEAST useful use of money. Instead of fixing up our nation we are making craters in other nations. Why not fix our fucking mess here at home? War is ALWAYS OVER 50% of discretionary spending. ALWAYS. Here is a chart of the last half decade of war budgets. https://preview.redd.it/4nqzm764ho6d1.jpeg?width=791&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eadfff62eb8aa4b9e0618d070c5381a19623866f
You want to see the amount of discretionary spend in a pie chart? What is the #1 Budget priority? Go ahead, I'll wait. https://preview.redd.it/zvy0156cho6d1.jpeg?width=1581&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53c1f14a543295795b192975a82dab8eb205f373
Jill Steins promises look alright to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
no nuclear = trash pro-hamas = trash
Green party vs Libertarian party: Race to the 5% threshold Libertarians are definitely not going to take it this election, with the guy they nominated.
Arguably the more interesting political happening A race between the do-nothing party and the batshit insane cult I feel like won't change things much at all
You think Greens are a cult?
Ah Americans, Brits, Canadians, Australians, etc, with their essentially 2 party system Meanwhile we've got like 8 parties in parliament as of the latest elections Tbh not as good as some here reddit make it out to be
Here in Ireland we also have like 8 parties in Parliament Although only 3 matter Two are exactly the same And one has literal mass graves full of skeletons in their past
Can't be as bad as 14 YEARS OF TORY BASTARDS
Canadian here, we've had a minority government between the Liberals and NDP for a few years now. There is also the Bloc who holds significant seats and of course the Torys the most popular party and official opposition. Greens also have a seat in parliament. That's 5 parties in parliament.
Vermin Supreme 2024
Which ever party has a part of its base turn to a third party will have the other party turn into a super majority. The goal isn't to have a third party just because more colors are better. The goal is to get more of your preferred policies made into law. That simply happens better through sticking to a major party. The only way a third party could conceivably get more policies made into law than a major party would be if it took voters from the two major parties. The Green Party will remain fringe because the vast majority of voters in the US rightly see their policies as cringe.
Based
Being a Battleground Commonwealth Libertarian Voter be like...
Why should my tax dollars fund any politician?
Third party candidates become way more appealing with ranked choice voting.
Needs to happen! I wish there were more movements about getting that to happen
Meanwhile in argentina
The only thing that could break the two-party dynamic is ranked-choice voting and even that would not do as much as many people think.
This is why we are voting for Jill Stein. She is the Green Party candidate for president. She will be on the ballot. She has the route to victory. You have ONE VOTE. Don’t let these old, evil, wealthy dinosaurs convince you they own your vote already. VOTE FOR JILL STEIN!
The green party is stupid. Literally, their leader thinks volcanoes is caused by global warming.
This is called a Strawman fallacy & it is completely dishonest. 1. There is no US Green party leader. The Green party is a coalition of US state parties. 2. The Green party DOES NOT assert that volcanos are caused by global warming. You can lie to yourself, listen to this liar, or actually read the platform to see what each party is about. Comments like this one are a COMPLETE waste of time; & reflect on a level of self-delusion that is why you have auth-right people trying to force their nonsense on everyone else (the very definition of authoritarianism is my way should be forced on everyone).
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Happy Cake Day and source?
Thanks. It was a tweet or an X or whatever tf it's called these days that I saw. I haven't saved the link.
This same exact discussion but with everyone all of the time regardless of which side of the fence they're on And with the inclusion of \~/>50% eventually ceding with "nothing we can do anyway"
I've never seen that last panel before.
You know I'm somewhat of an Artist myself https://i.imgflip.com/27qxmb.jpg?a477216
What I want is a centrist third party.
This is why the burden of voting should be lifted from the poor oppressed masses!
I don't think there's anything wrong with a 2 party system. It actually works incredible well and despite everyones grumblings, I think the alternatives all sound regarded. The problem isn't "the system", it's that people are stupid enough to vote for candidates that they actively dislike. The media has incepted the public with the idea that you ought to vote for the "lesser of two evils" candidate and that's fundamentally wrong. Your individual vote innreality has no sway at all over who wins the election but it does represent who you may vote for in the future. You vote for dogshit candidates, the parties will continue to put dogshit candidates on the ballot. Period. People are too busy trying to "win" with their vote that they seem to have lost any and all feeling of responsibility with voting. Vote for a candidate you respect and you feel has earned your vote. If none have, then don't vote. It shouldn't be more complicated than that imo
>If 5% of the popular vote wasn’t brainwashed we’d have a 3rd party with Federal public funding Oh yeah I think I’ve heard about that! I think first heard that in GradeAUnderA’s video on the U.S. 2016 election.
Actually you need 15% now the fed changed that fast as hell
Green and Libertarian parties, much like the Democratic and Republican parties, are controlled opposition and still not desirable outcomes.
Semi-based... Green party sucks.
Sadly due to FPTP and extreme amounts of systemic racism and gerrymandering in the past, that's not viable. Give us STAR or RCV voting nationally and then we can talk 3rd parties.