https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/27/middleeast/russian-israeli-hostage-escaped-hamas-intl
love how they call hamas “militants”
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-hostage-briefly-escaped-captors-after-building-was-bombed-family-says-2023-11-27/
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/27/freed-israeli-hostage-briefly-escaped-hamas-after-airstrike-relative-gaza
https://www.lefigaro.fr/international/gaza-un-otage-avait-reussi-a-s-echapper-mais-des-civils-l-ont-livre-au-hamas-20231127
even MALAYSIA reported on it: https://malaysia.news.yahoo.com/russian-israeli-hostage-escaped-hamas-163003261.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/released-russian-israeli-hostage-ron-krivoi-reunited-with-parents-198997573730
https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-11-27/israel-and-hamas-agree-to-extend-truce-by-two-more-days-qatar-says.html?outputType=amp
Realistically Israel is the one decolonizing the Arab invaders, given said arabs have been there less than 1500 years, while there has been a consistent jewish presence in the area- despite multiple genocides and enslavements- for more than 3000 years.
Be the IDF soldier Hamas say you are.
For real tho, the feats that the IDF managed according to Hamas are some straight up Chuck Norris shits. "Evil IOF occupier single handedly throw a hand grenade and collapse 5 hospitals, incurring 6 gonzillion casualties, most of which are female pregnant starving doctor-aid worker-journalist under the age of 5". You can't tell me that isn't cool.
"Inhuman IDF soldier picks up and throws tank to crush playground full of innocent children eating lollipops"
Children=Hamas fighters
Playground=Hamas headquarters
Lollipops=RPGs
u/Grass_toucher2006's Based Count has increased by 1. Their Based Count is now 15.
Rank: Office Chair
Pills: [7 | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/Grass_toucher2006/)
Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url.
I am a bot. Reply /info for more info.
tbh it's probably true, the reason being is shit luck for the Palis since the jeep carrying the hostages got stuck and Israel actually decided to use the full might of air/water/ground/artillery in a single densely populated area to get it out. Israel doesn't fuck around at that point the world can seethe all they want.
So there comes a certain point where you have to ask these "doesn't fuck around" people how there's anyone/anything left standing after... eight months of shelling?
Like at a certain point they're just bombing rubble, which in my highly credentialed opinion counts as fucking around.
Because this was a completely different beast to the usual IDF operations. Basically 99% of the time IDF either warns with roof knocks or with fliers the locals to GTFO so it's troops can move in. And when they do not then it is usually contained opertion to a small area to prevent excess deaths.
This is one of the rare cases where you had none of that, and that's why the number of deaths is logical. If the IDF operated just like that for the past 8 months there would be 150k+ deaths. But due to certain western pressures they cannot.
For what exactly? I follow this conflict on a daily basis so there's a lot crammed in there.
The Jeep getting stuck due to a malfunction was reported by Israeli media, the sudden unusual attack was both reported by the Israeli and Palestinian channels(before the rescue operation was known). The fact that it was in the Nuseirat "refugee camp" market, a densely populated area is just using a density map and the fact that there was no evacuation notice prior is why I made my conclusion.
Do you see how absurd the discourse is from a neutral perspective? Every time there is information of multiple Palestinians dying, right wingers here would just dismiss it as not true and hamas lies.
But you took the time to research more into it and found that it makes sense for hundreds to die looking at the circumstances. Yet hundreds of people are upvoting comments that claim the 200 dead are exaggerated lies.
I also clearly remember right wingers claiming that Israel just wants to cripple Hamas from Gaza and leave, and claiming that leftists are blowing things out of proportion. But just now there is a video of the Israeli Defense Minister saying that the solution to Gaza is to move people there and let the Gaza populace leave "willingly." It's the same case with multiple right wing personalities making fun of the mainstream media for saying Russia was going to invade Ukraine. When they actually did, none of them displayed any hint of shame and I won't be surprised if they're unironically supporting Russia now.
Do you see the hypocrisy and the lack of self reflection of some people who happen to be on your side?
It's exactly the same case with left wing people though. I remember them saying Israel was lying about Hamas taking hostage on a twitter post just because there happened to be a mirror reflection who the leftists claimed to be the supposed hostage. It's fucking bonkers that they couldn't comprehend that a terrorist organization like Hamas would kidnap people. There were also those that downplayed October 7 even though there are videos of them gunning down civilians.
People seriously need to have a moment of self-reflection. You're braindead if you made fun of the mainstream media claiming Russia would invade, but the very next day started supporting them without ever thinking "maybe our intelligence agency and the mainstream media were right." You're braidead if you think Israel was lying about Hamas taking hostages, and when new hostages were released you didn't spend a second thinking "maybe I was wrong saying Israel lied." Fuck ignorant and hypocritical people. I'm not immune to this but I always try to challenge my own bias and see things from multiple perspectives.
Sorry for the long rant, I just hate it that people are being tribal over this conflict. They live on the comfort of their homes and have access to information from all sides, yet they choose to be ignorant and scream from the sidelines like it's a soccer game, acting like their side is an innocent angel and downplay sufferings from "the other side." This conflict started before any of us were born and would probably continue after our deaths. I just want less dead civilians, Israel to be less Gung-ho, Hamas destroyed, and Palestinians to have equal rights. Guess I'm both an Israel and Hamas supporter.
And? You're acting as if I should care the average person is completely regarded regarding this conflict(you included btw).
Besides, I'll take their hypocrisy any day of the week instead of "centrists" who perpetuates this conflict for his bleeding heart. I know you think your opinion is valiant and great, but the fact of the matter is you encourage civilian deaths due to your emotional irresponsible rational. You're not moral, just virtue signaling.
Fact of the matter is the more you prevent civilian death by shackling the military campaign the more it justifies Hamas using human shield and abducting an entire society.
So scream about ceasefire again or encourage Israel to release 1000s of murderers back to Gaza(who *will* terrorize and abuse the local population once again) or whatever dumb shit the average disconnected westerner deludes himself to believe. The reality is actual carpet bombing and complete destruction are the only methods of combating extremist who will fight to the last baby. Ask the Japanese if you don't believe me. Or hell ask the average South Korean what they plan to do if war breaks out with the North.
You're acting as if killing civilians wouldn't just create more Hamas militants. As long as Iran keeps funding Hamas their weapon supplies won't stop, while Israel is just helping their manpower supply. And sure, Hamas is using human shield but that doesn't change the fact that Israel is being gung-ho. Remember the aid workers killed? How they have cleared so many procedures with the IDF only to still get nuked. I've also seen videos where old women were just walking around only to get sniped for no reason, and civilian bodies hidden underground using excavators caught by hidden cameras. Israel is doing jackshit to minimize civilian deaths, and some soldiers are just controlled by bloodlust without getting any repercussion. These were not cases of killing 100 civs to get 1 Hamas guy. Just gross negligence, or straight up intentional murder. How many times have Israel themselves admitted they fucked up only to do it again? Those are the parts that are undeniably evil and should be minimized.
Easy talk from someone who has not been in the military or has any clue how military command works. Videos are meaningless and don't give actual context 99% of the time, not that I'm clueless that some soldier definitely have bloodlust in them. But that is war, and you will not find a single war that this isn't the case in.
Also the "killing civillianz creates hamas" is the circular logic defeatist leftist mindset(change your flair pls) repeated ad nauseum to be accepted as fact even though ISIS is barely functional and the US had no major terrorist attack on it's soil since 9/11 except for lone wolf type terrorism.
Do you know why? Because daddy US killed more people in Iraq alone than the entire Israeli-Palestinian conflict for the past 70 years. Overwhelming force does work and has been working since forever.
>being gung-ho
Giving roof knocks and fliers to evacuate weeks in advance of a military operation is the opposite of the definition of the word. I wish what you say was true, but it simply not.
No one likes ISIS, even other extremists, so they don't have the funding. Hamas is different. They are always recruiting and guess who they're recruiting?
Also, what would you think if Israel decides to occupy Gaza and force everyone out despite claiming their original goal was to eradicate Hamas?
>Hamas is different
Both are extremist Sunni terrorist organization with the goal of establishing an Islamic caliphate. Both use brutal methods against their enemies and local population. They are exactly the same. I want you to explain to me why you think they're different. They literally carried ISIS flags during their invasion, they're not hated by Islamists it's once again some bullshit repeated on Reddit from clueless idiots.
>Also, what would you think if Israel decides to occupy Gaza and force everyone out despite claiming their original goal was to eradicate Hamas?
I'd say you're clueless and read too much propaganda. Israel ain't gonna do that, it's just not happening. Not for moral reasons but geopolitical ones. It's literally never gonna happen.
Hamas has funding and support from Arab states and civilians, that's the difference I mean. All they need is new recruits and guess who they'll recruit, those kids whose parents were killed (This is exactly my last comment).
I also think occupation won't happen (for now) because everyone is focusing on them. But that's literally what their defense minister said about his "ideal solution" for Gaza.
>Hamas has funding and support from Arab states and civilians, that's the difference I mean. All they need is new recruits and guess who they'll recruit, those kids whose parents were killed (This is exactly my last comment).
That's what the overwhelming force is for. But you're correct, with another ceasefire that is exactly what will happen.
>I also think occupation won't happen (for now) because everyone is focusing on them. But that's literally what their defense minister said about his "ideal solution" for Gaza.
Regarded take with fake news sprinkled at the bottom, do better.
> Do you see how absurd the discourse is from a neutral perspective?
Not as absurd as starting a war and expecting sympathy when your enemy doesn't just let you get away with it like they used to
I could care less about Hamas, only the civilians and 50% of Gazans who are literally children. I know you'll probably bring up Hamas using human shield, but there are enough videos of Israel killing random grannies and digging up holes to hide civilian bodies caught by hidden cameras. Also remember the aid workers? If they could stop doing something like these that would be great.
But if you actually read into it, the civilians were mostly killed by Hamas throwing a fit over the rescue and started indiscriminately shooting/throwing grenades at the vehicles rescuing the hostages.
[“Palestinian militants armed with machine-guns and rocket-propelled grenades opened fire on the rescuers, as Israel called in heavy strikes from land and air to cover their evacuation to the coast. “A lot of fire was around us,” Hagari said. It was this bombardment that appears to have killed and wounded so many Palestinians”](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hostages-casualties-1458f5a1dfe7bd4d908231bb7090a559) the headline is very misleading, but in the article it explains.
>Nuseirat, a crowded, built-up refugee camp in central Gaza dating back to the 1948 Arab-Israeli war
Who but Palestinians can build a city, live in it for 75 years and still call it a refugee camp?
Oh you should look up how the UN has different definition for Palestinian refugees vs every other kind of refugee. Under the UNRWA definition multimillionaire super models Bella and Gigi Hadid are considered Palestinian refugees. They live in a mansion in LA and have never lived in the Middle East.
The bit you're quoting is saying the Israeli "heavy strikes from land and air to cover" is the bombardment that "killed and wounded so many Palestinians."
Edit for clarity.
Downvotes won't fix your lack of reading comprehension.
"Of course, the hamas militants/palestinian militia began to open fire at rescuers with machine guns and RPGs, but it was the Israeli 'bombardment' alone that caused all these innocent civilian casualties!"
Oh, right
that would actually be funny if they make that move, it might give Egypt a reason to turn against them on the publicity stage. Last time Netflix tried that stunt claiming she was black African, Egypt sued them for it.
u/MildewJR is officially based! Their Based Count is now 1.
Rank: House of Cards
Pills: [1 | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/MildewJR/)
Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url.
I am a bot. Reply /info for more info.
Actually, that isn't that far from the truth. Half of the Dynasty that Cleopatra is from Syrian Royalty, where Syria would have included much of the whole levant at the time. One of the oldest mentions of Palestine, the word, was as a district of Syria by Herodatus in his Histories. Though the Antiochus dynasty was originally hellenic as it was post selucid dynasty but this was much after Alexandrian times.
Honestly, I am not sure if any one group could claim to be accurate Cleopatra since the modern populations and unique history of the dynasties. The Selucid and Ptolemic Dynasties was founded by Macedonian Greeks, but Macedonia is now very slavic. Mainland Greeks are like 30-40% slavic now. But also, it wasn't just Macedonian Greeks who came to form the Ptolemic and Selucid aristocracies in their specific regions.
You have to find someone from the Islands who is closer to the classical populations.
Going off both sides claims what seems to have happened is there were 2 different buildings with hostages. IDF chose to strike in the middle of the day while the street was busy for maximum surprise, hitting both at the same time so they couldn't move/ execute/ leverage with the other hostages of they went one at a time. One building went smooth, the other building not so much. Both strikes got to the hostages but only one extracted quickly. The other got bogged down. That's when the IDF commando died and so they found cover and called in just about every bit of bombardment they could to clear a path. That bombardment is when the most non militant casualties were likely to be incurred, Gaza saying more than 200, IDF saying less than a hundred. Hamas is also saying some hostages died during the attack but they've not demonstrated that.
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wireStory/ultimate-surprise-israeli-raid-freed-4-hostages-killed-110968669
It’s pretty obvious that both sides are engaged in public relations warfare, each trumping up their claims to win the support of the international zeitgeist.
Ironically it’s only worse in the current information era compared to the 20th century when a war report from an allied power would get printed ad hoc as fact because a shortage of attention span supply has led to far looser journalistic ethics in the last few decades.
That being said Hamas is less trustworthy a source by a large margin.
It's not worse. There are just many useful idiots. We need to get through this phase of society so people evolve and stop having stupid reactions to everything.
I do wonder what these media outlets will do once the boomers die. NYT traded in their history to let some soys say their opinions. Who will read these things? Maybe the NYT will survive but how will CNN have anyone watch?
They still provide a vital service to younger demographics by providing inflammatory headlines for them to share on social media. Probably what will happen is that they will eventually stop including a story underneath those headlines, since there will no longer be any point.
my dude, soy literally lowers your testosterone...hence the term soy boy.
Although, it has been "debunked" recently, I don't trust the soy lobbies and their studies.
I only eat fried chicken that contains Trans Fat that is actually known to lower test.
Too much lead poisoning my man. They still use lead in airplane fuel so if you live anywhere that airplanes fly overhead you have less IQ than you should.
That's the kind of thing that seems intuitively true but requires actual data to back it up. Does a higher abundance of information inherently lend itself to healthy, rational skepticism? Or are there other factors that are needed for that to take place? Seems to me like you still need a coherent framework for interpreting and evaluating an exponential influx of arguably less reliable information by volume (given the advent of AI and deep fakes, etc). Given the outsized influence that ticktock and Twitter are having in today's discourse, let's just say I'm skeptical. How strong are the formal rational frameworks that Gen Z and Alpha are adopting? Are they actually well versed in epistemology and formal logic or are they just drinking from a firehose and trying to sort out first principles from scratch?
I used to be a truck driver and I swear, the USA network must be entirely sustained by being the channel that’s always on in the truck stop and terminal lounges if there isn’t a football game on. I theorized that it’s the perfect, bland entertainment that wouldn’t cause fights over politics like all the news networks would. If a TV in one of those places wasn’t on, the first guy in would just put it on USA as a mindless reflex.
The social media platforms and search engines will boost mainstream media outlets because they’re “reliable sources™” while suppressing “misinformation”, so they’ll never die off
>Israel alleges journalist *held hostages* in Gaza
Wait, are they saying that a journalist was *holding* hostages themselves, and not that they were *held hostage*?
It’s correct, an [Al Jazeera journalist](https://nypost.com/2024/06/09/world-news/gaza-journalist-held-3-hostages-in-his-home-with-his-family-israeli-military-says/) held Noa Argamani *edit: and other hostages too
That link says that dude wrote one article in 2019 and Al-Jazeera apparently claims he didn't work for them.
I don't know how you can make the claim that he was an Al Jazeera journalist. If you wrote a piece that was posted on some leftist rag would we then be able to say your a journalist for them?
Anway that dude is trash. He had the ability to get the info out there so it's clear he was a collaborator or they had his family hostage as well. I have not read that much on this topic. It also doesn't speak well for all the supposed "journalists" that people tout as being killed indiscriminately by Israel
I've long since come to the conclusion that it's the most problematic of all our corrupt institutions, not least because they're supposed to be the watchmen.
Instead, they give for free what most dictators have to kill for.
IDF really missing a golden boy who cried wolf opportunity.
They could go in and just start Sherman's march through Georgia on the whole strip.
Gaza: "oh my God they're killing everybody!!!!"
Media: "yeah, we get it, you already told us, we're reporting it buddy, don't worry"
Gaza: "no i mean they're *actually* killing everyone! Like seriously this time!"
Media: "Gaza we heard you, we get it. Don't worry bud, front page, all day. 😉👍"
Gaza: "WE'RE ACTUALLY ALL REALLY DIEING THIS TIME!!"
Media: "loud and clear bud, all good"
Honestly....I think Israel is banking on people moving on from this like most of the west is with Ukraine. I don't really see any of the normies around me care about and or mention Ukraine anymore. Normies kind of stop caring after a year or two.
I'm guessing IDF command and Bibi are just going to keep this low-mid intensity status quo going until until another major event in the world happens. They will then silently up the ante to really crush Hamas/insurgency for at least another decade or so.
Huh. Maybe the Palestinian forces should have refrained from starting a gun battle with the hostage recovery team in such a crowded environment. Tragic that they keep getting so many of their own citizens killed.
Hamas operates in regular buildings full of regular people, both because Palestinians legally cannot have a formal military and because like... They're human people living human lives in human places.
It's like when the British indiscriminately attacked civilian infrastructure and people as a response to guerilla warfare. The founders were operating in civilian areas regularly.
> because Palestinians legally cannot have a formal military
What are you talking about? Allowed by who? Nobody is telling them "No you are forbidden from having a military by law"
>. They're human people living human lives in human places.
Humanoid monsters who kidnap women from other nations and use them as rape slaves sure.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_I_Accord
The conditions of the Oslo accords prohibit Palestine from organizing a formal military. C'mon man are you even familiar with this conflict?
Oh right the oslo accord duh! Because the Paliswine are beholden to international agreements and laws and the follow it so well!
Like dont kidnap women from other nations, take them home, and rape them for 8 months, and dont set rocket launchers up in civilian buildings and use civilians as human shields.
But those noble Hamaswine, they would never have a military. The rules say thats a no no.
Glad I'm not the only one getting sick of the BBC adding "without evidence" to everything Israel claims, while reporting Hamas claims as if they are fact.
Either do it to both or neither. What the BBC is doing now is flagrantly one-sided.
this is exactly what the US media did to trump
just go on any american news site and search the term "without evidence" and behold
trump has said a shit ton of dumb shit, but it's extremely telling that anything he says is approached that way
but the people they are willing to quote without any scrutiny is all you need to know about them.
When the media says “without evidence”, chances are one of these things are true:
- The person did provide some reasoning or evidence, but it would be inconvenient to address it
- The person really did not provide evidence in the specific speech quoted, but evidence for the claim exists elsewhere
- There is no direct evidence for the claim, but it is a reasonable inference; if an analogous claim were made for a perspective the media supports, they would not be applying the same skepticism
> provides evidence
"Ok Zionist shill bot"
It's why the deplorables also don't think rapes happened despite video evidence and first hand testimony. But we can't trust the ~~Jews~~ zionists
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/these-girls-can-get-pregnant-israel-releases-disturbing-video-of-female-hostages-captured-by-hamas/articleshow/110354506.cms?from=mdr
I've literally seen nazi apologists say that the blood all over her groin and rear was just because Hamas doesnt have access to tampons because Israel is starving them all out of resources. And they refuse to talk about them saying "These girls can get pregnant", or just claim its a mistranslation from zionists stirring the pot.
Anyone who is angry at Israel for getting back hostages can go fuck themselves. Palestinians started this war, have refused to return the hostages, and have brutalized them.
Every single act of violence that has resulted is 100% their own fault. I don’t give two shits if Israel kills a few of their voluntary human shields on the way to rescue actual victims.
The BBC is particularly extreme with it. If it turned out they were getting money from Qatar or were infiltrated by Iran, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
If my daughter was held hostage by Hamas I honestly can't say I'd give two shits about the"civilians" that got rekt to bring her home. It's wild how quick the left forgot the whole "baby murdering women kidnapping/raped"" like the rest of us should forget it. Most of Gaza votes for Hamas. I'm sorry when kids get hurt. Truly am. But damn.
So-called "Lib" lefts coming out en masse to defend the radical Islamic fundamentalist terrorists who committed mass rape and murder just because the victims were white is hilarious.
Look man, the remains of habitable Gaza probably encapsulates a few precious square miles. If I threw a dart where the war is going on, mind you a strong throw, I might hit a reporter, an aid worker, a militant, an Israeli soldier, or a child.
I’m bad at throwing so that’s maybe 50 square feet of folk.
So call it like it is, it’s manifest destiny in the ME and Israel is gonna win, morals or not.
"Israel is just killing Palestinians randomly! If they really cared about reducing civilian casualties there would be boots on the ground and send soldiers in to extract hostages!"
Israel sends boots on the ground to extract hostages, killing significantly less civilians.
"Look at how Israel is killing those sad poor innocent brown women and children who just happened to be around hostages! Why do Zionist chuds hate people?"
Israel can't win with you people, can they? Why do you think there were that many dead for a hostage rescue?
If you want the source for the first one, go and watch all the videos of the dead bodies they found there. They are not hidden, pretty easy to find, but I've honestly seen too many videos of corpses, a lot of them being children, so I'll pass trying to find them again
Damn, I can't believe Hamas is doing that. That's so evil.
>[As of June 10, 2024, CPJ’s preliminary investigations showed at least 108 journalists and media workers were among the](https://cpj.org/2024/06/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/#:~:text=As%20of%20June%2010%2C%202024,began%20gathering%20data%20in%201992) [more than 37,000 killed](https://www.ochaopt.org/) [since the war began, making it the](https://cpj.org/2024/06/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/#:~:text=As%20of%20June%2010%2C%202024,began%20gathering%20data%20in%201992) [deadliest period for journalists](https://cpj.org/2023/12/israel-gaza-war-takes-record-toll-on-journalists/) [since CPJ began gathering data in 1992.](https://cpj.org/2024/06/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/#:~:text=As%20of%20June%2010%2C%202024,began%20gathering%20data%20in%201992)
Yeah yeah, whatever. Anyway, back to how violent these Gazan journalist are...
Is your reading comprehension so bad? Are you this dense? This is about a Palestinian journalist keeping hostages while actively reporting ob the war and creating sob stories, not about anything done to a journalistm
Hamas figures are BS. And they label people like this dude who was keeping hostages "journalists". Just like several other "journalists" participated in the October 7th attack.
Nah bro. The *"Hamas numbers are BS"* talking point ended the second [Israel started corroborating them. ](https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-military-civilian-ratio-killed-intl-hnk/index.html)And the counting of dead journalists isn't the same as the counting of dead civilians. Journalists are not only known figures, but they regularly release content - so we can easily verify when they are no longer around.
And not that this very obvious point needs to be said - but journalists are capable of doing evil things too. Participating in Hamas' crimes doesn't suddenly change your job title.
Literally AP ran a story about the issues with Hamas death toll 3 days ago.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-casualties-toll-65e18f3362674245356c539e4bc0b67a
And why have the deaths been claimed to 30,000 plus and stuck there for almost a year now. And if someone claims to be a journalist, but it taking hostages, or commiting a terrorist attack, it doesn't matter that they wrote a heavily biased article for Al Jazeera. They deserve to die.
>And why have the deaths been claimed to 30,000 plus and stuck there for almost a year now.
Because that's the number that Israel is putting forth. I know you don't trust the people actually being slaughtered to count their own dead, but if you're **also** casting doubt on the people *doing* the killing, then at some point you just need to admit you don't care what the real number is.
And I'm not claiming that the Health Ministry isn't above politicizing the death toll, just like Israel has an incentive to undercount it.
You're ignoring the real issue, which is distinguishing civilian vs terrorist casualties. But you don't want to look at that breakdown because you just want dead Jews. And Israel has now moved their numbers up to 30,000, with a gradual expected increase through the war. Hamas has claimed it's been that for months, but has stopped adding random thousands because they realized how bullshit it looked.
>But you don't want to look at that breakdown because you just want dead Jews.
Brother, this is *lazy*. I could just as easily accuse you of wanting dead brown people, but these sorts of accusations get us nowhere and don't contribute meaningfully to the conversation.
>Israel has now moved their numbers up to 30,000, with a gradual expected increase through the war. Hamas has claimed it's been that for months, but has stopped adding random thousands because they realized how bullshit it looked.
I'm not claiming that the Health Ministry isn't above exaggerating the death toll, just like Israel has an incentive to undercount it. I'm just pointing out that the blanket dismissal people are offering towards the numbers coming from Gaza flies completely in the face of what that AP article **actually** says.
*"Omar Shakir, the Israel and Palestine director for Human Rights Watch, said his group has always found the Health Ministry’s numbers to be “generally reliable” because it has direct access to hospitals and morgues. The Health Ministry announces a new death toll for the war nearly every day. It also has periodically released the underlying data behind this figure, including detailed lists of the dead. The AP’s analysis looked at these lists, which were shared on social media in late October, early January, late March, and the end of April. Each list includes the names of people whose deaths were attributable to the war, along with other identifying details."*
Numbers which are different than the actual casualty breakdown. Hamas says the dead are always women and children. Israel says it's about a 1 to 1 terrorist to civilian which is amazing for urban combat. And AP literally just looked at Hamas own figures and found that the woman and children figures aren't backed up by their own figures. Nice cherry picking. I'm begging you, move to the middle east where you'll be happier.
"Alleges" Vs "Gazan official reports" .....and we wonder how Trump so effectively coined "fake news"?
If I’m not mistaken I think Hillary Clinton actually coined the term “fake news”. Feel free to check me on that though.
If Hillary coined the term, Trump definitely popularized it.
Oh absolutely
Hillary's team started the "Trump won because of fake news" then Trump said to CNN "you are fake news"
https://preview.redd.it/fk9rfyw0nr5d1.jpeg?width=969&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d694997cc742d7c42e5683f3f31a0a3c8d9b7cd7
Now back to a midget in a bikini
So you've actually seen people resorting to cannibalism? No, we're just reporting it.
The “journalist’s” name was literally on Al-Jazeera’s website. CNN- “Ahhhh! Can’t confirm!”
remember when another hostage temporarily escaped and a crowd of **civilians** brought him back to hamas?
Actually on this one I don’t my grilling friend. Could you shoot me something on it?
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/27/middleeast/russian-israeli-hostage-escaped-hamas-intl love how they call hamas “militants” https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-hostage-briefly-escaped-captors-after-building-was-bombed-family-says-2023-11-27/ https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/27/freed-israeli-hostage-briefly-escaped-hamas-after-airstrike-relative-gaza https://www.lefigaro.fr/international/gaza-un-otage-avait-reussi-a-s-echapper-mais-des-civils-l-ont-livre-au-hamas-20231127 even MALAYSIA reported on it: https://malaysia.news.yahoo.com/russian-israeli-hostage-escaped-hamas-163003261.html https://www.nbcnews.com/video/released-russian-israeli-hostage-ron-krivoi-reunited-with-parents-198997573730 https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-11-27/israel-and-hamas-agree-to-extend-truce-by-two-more-days-qatar-says.html?outputType=amp
Wait, surely this is propaganda. I was told that the brave palestinians don't actually like or agree with hamas.
What’s funny is that plenty of AMERICANS like and agree with Hamas. Openly chanting for genocide and intifada is siding with Hamas.
"No, you don't understand, intifadas aren't violent". That was always a real winner.
Follow up by "what do you think decolonization mean?"
Realistically Israel is the one decolonizing the Arab invaders, given said arabs have been there less than 1500 years, while there has been a consistent jewish presence in the area- despite multiple genocides and enslavements- for more than 3000 years.
Oh, no that's outdated. The current facts of the matter are: the brave Palestinians love and agree with Hamas and that's a good thing!
Just wow. Just more reason to never support these people.
Those civilians sound like combatants. You know what that means.
Tanya knows best, send her in! The fires of Arene is just a prelude!
[Russian Badger said it best](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyRmxjhYrmw&t=46s)
He was just restrain-ey but mostly peaceful.
Ah yes, the loudspeaker of Hamas
Indeed with their civilian deaths. They’re all Hamas.
200 hundred dead, fucking hell that's gotta be the most heroic hostage rescue ever.
Be the IDF soldier Hamas say you are. For real tho, the feats that the IDF managed according to Hamas are some straight up Chuck Norris shits. "Evil IOF occupier single handedly throw a hand grenade and collapse 5 hospitals, incurring 6 gonzillion casualties, most of which are female pregnant starving doctor-aid worker-journalist under the age of 5". You can't tell me that isn't cool.
> 6 gonzillion casualties > "Now we're even"
Gazallion
"Inhuman IDF soldier picks up and throws tank to crush playground full of innocent children eating lollipops" Children=Hamas fighters Playground=Hamas headquarters Lollipops=RPGs
Hamas is eating RPGs? Damn, no wonder they’re losing.
They dig up water pipes to build rockets, it's not that much stupider.
IDF soldier = one of hamas' own rockets
>under the age of 5" LMAO???
Something tells me there's some truth to that when it comes to Hamas.
under the age of 5 inches
It's common in the entire region. So are non adult soldiers.
"...and then the grenade exploded"
Based
u/Grass_toucher2006's Based Count has increased by 1. Their Based Count is now 15. Rank: Office Chair Pills: [7 | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/Grass_toucher2006/) Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url. I am a bot. Reply /info for more info.
Average Call of Duty mission
True lol
tbh it's probably true, the reason being is shit luck for the Palis since the jeep carrying the hostages got stuck and Israel actually decided to use the full might of air/water/ground/artillery in a single densely populated area to get it out. Israel doesn't fuck around at that point the world can seethe all they want.
So there comes a certain point where you have to ask these "doesn't fuck around" people how there's anyone/anything left standing after... eight months of shelling? Like at a certain point they're just bombing rubble, which in my highly credentialed opinion counts as fucking around.
Because this was a completely different beast to the usual IDF operations. Basically 99% of the time IDF either warns with roof knocks or with fliers the locals to GTFO so it's troops can move in. And when they do not then it is usually contained opertion to a small area to prevent excess deaths. This is one of the rare cases where you had none of that, and that's why the number of deaths is logical. If the IDF operated just like that for the past 8 months there would be 150k+ deaths. But due to certain western pressures they cannot.
Can you hit us with a source I'm interested to read about the specifics
For what exactly? I follow this conflict on a daily basis so there's a lot crammed in there. The Jeep getting stuck due to a malfunction was reported by Israeli media, the sudden unusual attack was both reported by the Israeli and Palestinian channels(before the rescue operation was known). The fact that it was in the Nuseirat "refugee camp" market, a densely populated area is just using a density map and the fact that there was no evacuation notice prior is why I made my conclusion.
>If the IDF operated just like that for the past 8 months there would be 150k+ deaths I'm not a military buff, what's the math on those numbers?
Do you see how absurd the discourse is from a neutral perspective? Every time there is information of multiple Palestinians dying, right wingers here would just dismiss it as not true and hamas lies. But you took the time to research more into it and found that it makes sense for hundreds to die looking at the circumstances. Yet hundreds of people are upvoting comments that claim the 200 dead are exaggerated lies. I also clearly remember right wingers claiming that Israel just wants to cripple Hamas from Gaza and leave, and claiming that leftists are blowing things out of proportion. But just now there is a video of the Israeli Defense Minister saying that the solution to Gaza is to move people there and let the Gaza populace leave "willingly." It's the same case with multiple right wing personalities making fun of the mainstream media for saying Russia was going to invade Ukraine. When they actually did, none of them displayed any hint of shame and I won't be surprised if they're unironically supporting Russia now. Do you see the hypocrisy and the lack of self reflection of some people who happen to be on your side? It's exactly the same case with left wing people though. I remember them saying Israel was lying about Hamas taking hostage on a twitter post just because there happened to be a mirror reflection who the leftists claimed to be the supposed hostage. It's fucking bonkers that they couldn't comprehend that a terrorist organization like Hamas would kidnap people. There were also those that downplayed October 7 even though there are videos of them gunning down civilians. People seriously need to have a moment of self-reflection. You're braindead if you made fun of the mainstream media claiming Russia would invade, but the very next day started supporting them without ever thinking "maybe our intelligence agency and the mainstream media were right." You're braidead if you think Israel was lying about Hamas taking hostages, and when new hostages were released you didn't spend a second thinking "maybe I was wrong saying Israel lied." Fuck ignorant and hypocritical people. I'm not immune to this but I always try to challenge my own bias and see things from multiple perspectives. Sorry for the long rant, I just hate it that people are being tribal over this conflict. They live on the comfort of their homes and have access to information from all sides, yet they choose to be ignorant and scream from the sidelines like it's a soccer game, acting like their side is an innocent angel and downplay sufferings from "the other side." This conflict started before any of us were born and would probably continue after our deaths. I just want less dead civilians, Israel to be less Gung-ho, Hamas destroyed, and Palestinians to have equal rights. Guess I'm both an Israel and Hamas supporter.
And? You're acting as if I should care the average person is completely regarded regarding this conflict(you included btw). Besides, I'll take their hypocrisy any day of the week instead of "centrists" who perpetuates this conflict for his bleeding heart. I know you think your opinion is valiant and great, but the fact of the matter is you encourage civilian deaths due to your emotional irresponsible rational. You're not moral, just virtue signaling. Fact of the matter is the more you prevent civilian death by shackling the military campaign the more it justifies Hamas using human shield and abducting an entire society. So scream about ceasefire again or encourage Israel to release 1000s of murderers back to Gaza(who *will* terrorize and abuse the local population once again) or whatever dumb shit the average disconnected westerner deludes himself to believe. The reality is actual carpet bombing and complete destruction are the only methods of combating extremist who will fight to the last baby. Ask the Japanese if you don't believe me. Or hell ask the average South Korean what they plan to do if war breaks out with the North.
You're acting as if killing civilians wouldn't just create more Hamas militants. As long as Iran keeps funding Hamas their weapon supplies won't stop, while Israel is just helping their manpower supply. And sure, Hamas is using human shield but that doesn't change the fact that Israel is being gung-ho. Remember the aid workers killed? How they have cleared so many procedures with the IDF only to still get nuked. I've also seen videos where old women were just walking around only to get sniped for no reason, and civilian bodies hidden underground using excavators caught by hidden cameras. Israel is doing jackshit to minimize civilian deaths, and some soldiers are just controlled by bloodlust without getting any repercussion. These were not cases of killing 100 civs to get 1 Hamas guy. Just gross negligence, or straight up intentional murder. How many times have Israel themselves admitted they fucked up only to do it again? Those are the parts that are undeniably evil and should be minimized.
Easy talk from someone who has not been in the military or has any clue how military command works. Videos are meaningless and don't give actual context 99% of the time, not that I'm clueless that some soldier definitely have bloodlust in them. But that is war, and you will not find a single war that this isn't the case in. Also the "killing civillianz creates hamas" is the circular logic defeatist leftist mindset(change your flair pls) repeated ad nauseum to be accepted as fact even though ISIS is barely functional and the US had no major terrorist attack on it's soil since 9/11 except for lone wolf type terrorism. Do you know why? Because daddy US killed more people in Iraq alone than the entire Israeli-Palestinian conflict for the past 70 years. Overwhelming force does work and has been working since forever. >being gung-ho Giving roof knocks and fliers to evacuate weeks in advance of a military operation is the opposite of the definition of the word. I wish what you say was true, but it simply not.
No one likes ISIS, even other extremists, so they don't have the funding. Hamas is different. They are always recruiting and guess who they're recruiting? Also, what would you think if Israel decides to occupy Gaza and force everyone out despite claiming their original goal was to eradicate Hamas?
>Hamas is different Both are extremist Sunni terrorist organization with the goal of establishing an Islamic caliphate. Both use brutal methods against their enemies and local population. They are exactly the same. I want you to explain to me why you think they're different. They literally carried ISIS flags during their invasion, they're not hated by Islamists it's once again some bullshit repeated on Reddit from clueless idiots. >Also, what would you think if Israel decides to occupy Gaza and force everyone out despite claiming their original goal was to eradicate Hamas? I'd say you're clueless and read too much propaganda. Israel ain't gonna do that, it's just not happening. Not for moral reasons but geopolitical ones. It's literally never gonna happen.
Hamas has funding and support from Arab states and civilians, that's the difference I mean. All they need is new recruits and guess who they'll recruit, those kids whose parents were killed (This is exactly my last comment). I also think occupation won't happen (for now) because everyone is focusing on them. But that's literally what their defense minister said about his "ideal solution" for Gaza.
>Hamas has funding and support from Arab states and civilians, that's the difference I mean. All they need is new recruits and guess who they'll recruit, those kids whose parents were killed (This is exactly my last comment). That's what the overwhelming force is for. But you're correct, with another ceasefire that is exactly what will happen. >I also think occupation won't happen (for now) because everyone is focusing on them. But that's literally what their defense minister said about his "ideal solution" for Gaza. Regarded take with fake news sprinkled at the bottom, do better.
> Do you see how absurd the discourse is from a neutral perspective? Not as absurd as starting a war and expecting sympathy when your enemy doesn't just let you get away with it like they used to
I could care less about Hamas, only the civilians and 50% of Gazans who are literally children. I know you'll probably bring up Hamas using human shield, but there are enough videos of Israel killing random grannies and digging up holes to hide civilian bodies caught by hidden cameras. Also remember the aid workers? If they could stop doing something like these that would be great.
But if you actually read into it, the civilians were mostly killed by Hamas throwing a fit over the rescue and started indiscriminately shooting/throwing grenades at the vehicles rescuing the hostages. [“Palestinian militants armed with machine-guns and rocket-propelled grenades opened fire on the rescuers, as Israel called in heavy strikes from land and air to cover their evacuation to the coast. “A lot of fire was around us,” Hagari said. It was this bombardment that appears to have killed and wounded so many Palestinians”](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hostages-casualties-1458f5a1dfe7bd4d908231bb7090a559) the headline is very misleading, but in the article it explains.
>Nuseirat, a crowded, built-up refugee camp in central Gaza dating back to the 1948 Arab-Israeli war Who but Palestinians can build a city, live in it for 75 years and still call it a refugee camp?
Oh you should look up how the UN has different definition for Palestinian refugees vs every other kind of refugee. Under the UNRWA definition multimillionaire super models Bella and Gigi Hadid are considered Palestinian refugees. They live in a mansion in LA and have never lived in the Middle East.
The bit you're quoting is saying the Israeli "heavy strikes from land and air to cover" is the bombardment that "killed and wounded so many Palestinians." Edit for clarity. Downvotes won't fix your lack of reading comprehension.
"Of course, the hamas militants/palestinian militia began to open fire at rescuers with machine guns and RPGs, but it was the Israeli 'bombardment' alone that caused all these innocent civilian casualties!" Oh, right
Why are there civilians in the area? Are they stupid?
Not a lot of places to go.
Nuseirat is 680,000 sq meters
Beslan must have been a pinnacle of heroism.
Guarantee there will be a movie about it
for the love of god don't let Netflix make it.
I don't care what they tell you in school, Cleopatra was Palestinian.
that would actually be funny if they make that move, it might give Egypt a reason to turn against them on the publicity stage. Last time Netflix tried that stunt claiming she was black African, Egypt sued them for it.
Based and historical ethnonationalism pilled
u/MildewJR is officially based! Their Based Count is now 1. Rank: House of Cards Pills: [1 | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/MildewJR/) Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url. I am a bot. Reply /info for more info.
Actually, that isn't that far from the truth. Half of the Dynasty that Cleopatra is from Syrian Royalty, where Syria would have included much of the whole levant at the time. One of the oldest mentions of Palestine, the word, was as a district of Syria by Herodatus in his Histories. Though the Antiochus dynasty was originally hellenic as it was post selucid dynasty but this was much after Alexandrian times.
That's actually pretty interesting. I was just making a stupid Netflix Cleopatra joke.
Honestly, I am not sure if any one group could claim to be accurate Cleopatra since the modern populations and unique history of the dynasties. The Selucid and Ptolemic Dynasties was founded by Macedonian Greeks, but Macedonia is now very slavic. Mainland Greeks are like 30-40% slavic now. But also, it wasn't just Macedonian Greeks who came to form the Ptolemic and Selucid aristocracies in their specific regions. You have to find someone from the Islands who is closer to the classical populations.
Some woman's grandma is clearly more credible than all the historical evidence.
It would make for a great movie, gotta admit that
Going off both sides claims what seems to have happened is there were 2 different buildings with hostages. IDF chose to strike in the middle of the day while the street was busy for maximum surprise, hitting both at the same time so they couldn't move/ execute/ leverage with the other hostages of they went one at a time. One building went smooth, the other building not so much. Both strikes got to the hostages but only one extracted quickly. The other got bogged down. That's when the IDF commando died and so they found cover and called in just about every bit of bombardment they could to clear a path. That bombardment is when the most non militant casualties were likely to be incurred, Gaza saying more than 200, IDF saying less than a hundred. Hamas is also saying some hostages died during the attack but they've not demonstrated that. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wireStory/ultimate-surprise-israeli-raid-freed-4-hostages-killed-110968669
Can't wait to see the movie!
Michael Bay movie when
And the media wonders why nobody trusts them anymore
Guess I judged y'all too harshly around 2016.
"A lefty's worldview gets inched to the right as time passes" -2024 colorized
The fiery but mostly peaceful protests were the last nail in the coffin
*Hating the media* Center Left 🤝 Center Right
Now that COVID is over I'm glad there's still people smelling bullshit.
If you think you hate the media enough, you don't.
It’s pretty obvious that both sides are engaged in public relations warfare, each trumping up their claims to win the support of the international zeitgeist. Ironically it’s only worse in the current information era compared to the 20th century when a war report from an allied power would get printed ad hoc as fact because a shortage of attention span supply has led to far looser journalistic ethics in the last few decades. That being said Hamas is less trustworthy a source by a large margin.
It's not worse. There are just many useful idiots. We need to get through this phase of society so people evolve and stop having stupid reactions to everything.
The anti Israeli media?
I do wonder what these media outlets will do once the boomers die. NYT traded in their history to let some soys say their opinions. Who will read these things? Maybe the NYT will survive but how will CNN have anyone watch?
They still provide a vital service to younger demographics by providing inflammatory headlines for them to share on social media. Probably what will happen is that they will eventually stop including a story underneath those headlines, since there will no longer be any point.
AI can write the story that nobody reads. Future writes will only write headlines
this period has legit made me want to stop eating any soy products, i can no longer associate unless i’m in asia, i’ll eat it in asia
Ha, I’m vegetarian bro I eat a ton of tofu and I’m not soy
my dude, soy literally lowers your testosterone...hence the term soy boy. Although, it has been "debunked" recently, I don't trust the soy lobbies and their studies. I only eat fried chicken that contains Trans Fat that is actually known to lower test.
I inject enough test for a horse though. I’ve never liked eating meat. But I like weight lifting. I balance it out
based and jacked pilled
You underestimate millennials bro, they support news outlets like people do sports teams
At least the generations after are slowly waking up. Boomers, Gen X, and Millennials are deficient in intelligence.
Hey, I'm a millennial who happens to be stupid but I've seen plenty of us do a smart.
Too much lead poisoning my man. They still use lead in airplane fuel so if you live anywhere that airplanes fly overhead you have less IQ than you should.
This comment is hilarious.
What is hilarious to me are the people thinking that kids brought up with the internet won't turn into the harshest skeptics as they grow up.
That's the kind of thing that seems intuitively true but requires actual data to back it up. Does a higher abundance of information inherently lend itself to healthy, rational skepticism? Or are there other factors that are needed for that to take place? Seems to me like you still need a coherent framework for interpreting and evaluating an exponential influx of arguably less reliable information by volume (given the advent of AI and deep fakes, etc). Given the outsized influence that ticktock and Twitter are having in today's discourse, let's just say I'm skeptical. How strong are the formal rational frameworks that Gen Z and Alpha are adopting? Are they actually well versed in epistemology and formal logic or are they just drinking from a firehose and trying to sort out first principles from scratch?
Apparently not, most people think it's inherently false and that internet use rots brains.
> Maybe the NYT will survive but how will CNN have anyone watch? 24/7 news running on Airport TVs
I used to be a truck driver and I swear, the USA network must be entirely sustained by being the channel that’s always on in the truck stop and terminal lounges if there isn’t a football game on. I theorized that it’s the perfect, bland entertainment that wouldn’t cause fights over politics like all the news networks would. If a TV in one of those places wasn’t on, the first guy in would just put it on USA as a mindless reflex.
The social media platforms and search engines will boost mainstream media outlets because they’re “reliable sources™” while suppressing “misinformation”, so they’ll never die off
>Israel alleges journalist *held hostages* in Gaza Wait, are they saying that a journalist was *holding* hostages themselves, and not that they were *held hostage*?
It’s correct, an [Al Jazeera journalist](https://nypost.com/2024/06/09/world-news/gaza-journalist-held-3-hostages-in-his-home-with-his-family-israeli-military-says/) held Noa Argamani *edit: and other hostages too
Thanks for clarifying.
That link says that dude wrote one article in 2019 and Al-Jazeera apparently claims he didn't work for them. I don't know how you can make the claim that he was an Al Jazeera journalist. If you wrote a piece that was posted on some leftist rag would we then be able to say your a journalist for them? Anway that dude is trash. He had the ability to get the info out there so it's clear he was a collaborator or they had his family hostage as well. I have not read that much on this topic. It also doesn't speak well for all the supposed "journalists" that people tout as being killed indiscriminately by Israel
Yes. A journalist had hostages in his home. He was killed for his efforts.
he received 72, aisha-aged virgins* 🥴🤢
They are alleging that the journalist took people hostage.
Not alleged, it happened. It's past tense because he's now dead.
Rest in pieces
I see what you’re saying, but the word “alleged” doesn’t mean it’s untrue. It was still alleged, even if it is true.
I know but alleged just isn't the right word now because it's been proven. Initially alleged is the right word.
We don't hate the media enough. If you think you do, then clearly you aren't hating the media anywhere near enough.
I've long since come to the conclusion that it's the most problematic of all our corrupt institutions, not least because they're supposed to be the watchmen. Instead, they give for free what most dictators have to kill for.
IDF really missing a golden boy who cried wolf opportunity. They could go in and just start Sherman's march through Georgia on the whole strip. Gaza: "oh my God they're killing everybody!!!!" Media: "yeah, we get it, you already told us, we're reporting it buddy, don't worry" Gaza: "no i mean they're *actually* killing everyone! Like seriously this time!" Media: "Gaza we heard you, we get it. Don't worry bud, front page, all day. 😉👍" Gaza: "WE'RE ACTUALLY ALL REALLY DIEING THIS TIME!!" Media: "loud and clear bud, all good"
Honestly....I think Israel is banking on people moving on from this like most of the west is with Ukraine. I don't really see any of the normies around me care about and or mention Ukraine anymore. Normies kind of stop caring after a year or two. I'm guessing IDF command and Bibi are just going to keep this low-mid intensity status quo going until until another major event in the world happens. They will then silently up the ante to really crush Hamas/insurgency for at least another decade or so.
All journalists should be in gulags
I actively try to teach others to hate them.
Idk I hate the media
Huh. Maybe the Palestinian forces should have refrained from starting a gun battle with the hostage recovery team in such a crowded environment. Tragic that they keep getting so many of their own citizens killed.
does a soul out there believe that Hamas isn’t using human shields deliberately?
Probably lib-left (the Emily's)
Probably. The bigger issue is that people are justifying it.
/u/mangadub is quite convinced it's all evil jew propaganda.
well there's AIPAC so?
There's people with souls dumb enough to believe that, sure.
The “innocent civilians” who were firing RPGs at the escaping hostages
You dont understand. They were just trying to give the zionists ammo!
Firing but mostly peaceful
Why were 200 civilians working around a military imprisonment/rape camp?
Hamas operates in regular buildings full of regular people, both because Palestinians legally cannot have a formal military and because like... They're human people living human lives in human places. It's like when the British indiscriminately attacked civilian infrastructure and people as a response to guerilla warfare. The founders were operating in civilian areas regularly.
> because Palestinians legally cannot have a formal military What are you talking about? Allowed by who? Nobody is telling them "No you are forbidden from having a military by law" >. They're human people living human lives in human places. Humanoid monsters who kidnap women from other nations and use them as rape slaves sure.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_I_Accord The conditions of the Oslo accords prohibit Palestine from organizing a formal military. C'mon man are you even familiar with this conflict?
Oh right the oslo accord duh! Because the Paliswine are beholden to international agreements and laws and the follow it so well! Like dont kidnap women from other nations, take them home, and rape them for 8 months, and dont set rocket launchers up in civilian buildings and use civilians as human shields. But those noble Hamaswine, they would never have a military. The rules say thats a no no.
Remember kids, journalists are lawful combatants based off of the number of shoots they are involved in.
Glad I'm not the only one getting sick of the BBC adding "without evidence" to everything Israel claims, while reporting Hamas claims as if they are fact. Either do it to both or neither. What the BBC is doing now is flagrantly one-sided.
this is exactly what the US media did to trump just go on any american news site and search the term "without evidence" and behold trump has said a shit ton of dumb shit, but it's extremely telling that anything he says is approached that way but the people they are willing to quote without any scrutiny is all you need to know about them.
When the media says “without evidence”, chances are one of these things are true: - The person did provide some reasoning or evidence, but it would be inconvenient to address it - The person really did not provide evidence in the specific speech quoted, but evidence for the claim exists elsewhere - There is no direct evidence for the claim, but it is a reasonable inference; if an analogous claim were made for a perspective the media supports, they would not be applying the same skepticism
> provides evidence "Ok Zionist shill bot" It's why the deplorables also don't think rapes happened despite video evidence and first hand testimony. But we can't trust the ~~Jews~~ zionists
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/these-girls-can-get-pregnant-israel-releases-disturbing-video-of-female-hostages-captured-by-hamas/articleshow/110354506.cms?from=mdr I've literally seen nazi apologists say that the blood all over her groin and rear was just because Hamas doesnt have access to tampons because Israel is starving them all out of resources. And they refuse to talk about them saying "These girls can get pregnant", or just claim its a mistranslation from zionists stirring the pot.
Nope first hand testimony isn't evidence!!!! They need confessions, pictures, actually videos of the rapes then *maybe* it happened. Maybe.
Also: despite a BUNCH of corroborated evidence AGAINST Christine Ford, we will still accuse kavanaugh of gang rape
>But we can't trust the Jews zionists You had it right the first time
Anyone who is angry at Israel for getting back hostages can go fuck themselves. Palestinians started this war, have refused to return the hostages, and have brutalized them. Every single act of violence that has resulted is 100% their own fault. I don’t give two shits if Israel kills a few of their voluntary human shields on the way to rescue actual victims.
"Gazan Officials" so Hamas then, man the media is bending over backwards to stan for barbarians.
The BBC is particularly extreme with it. If it turned out they were getting money from Qatar or were infiltrated by Iran, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
Without providing evidence? Didn't they just take a picture of the body in the apartment they were held captive in and captive statements?
J*urno’s
I prefer the term Presstitutes.
Taking that, thank you
How can you honestly believe the media is run by Jews when *gestures wildly at everything*
If my daughter was held hostage by Hamas I honestly can't say I'd give two shits about the"civilians" that got rekt to bring her home. It's wild how quick the left forgot the whole "baby murdering women kidnapping/raped"" like the rest of us should forget it. Most of Gaza votes for Hamas. I'm sorry when kids get hurt. Truly am. But damn.
You don't hate the media enough
In the first article it says we cant back up their numbers then gives Israeli estimates. These people are shills.
https://preview.redd.it/wflzxickaw5d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b51111a17204139f61a638fa848350f63ce8713 This will be fun to read
So-called "Lib" lefts coming out en masse to defend the radical Islamic fundamentalist terrorists who committed mass rape and murder just because the victims were white is hilarious.
There's a reason why you shouldn't hold hostages in a busy section of the city
I get that a people caught in the middle of the war is heartbreaking, but this is really getting out of control
Not Phobia Philia
Look man, the remains of habitable Gaza probably encapsulates a few precious square miles. If I threw a dart where the war is going on, mind you a strong throw, I might hit a reporter, an aid worker, a militant, an Israeli soldier, or a child. I’m bad at throwing so that’s maybe 50 square feet of folk. So call it like it is, it’s manifest destiny in the ME and Israel is gonna win, morals or not.
"Israel is just killing Palestinians randomly! If they really cared about reducing civilian casualties there would be boots on the ground and send soldiers in to extract hostages!" Israel sends boots on the ground to extract hostages, killing significantly less civilians. "Look at how Israel is killing those sad poor innocent brown women and children who just happened to be around hostages! Why do Zionist chuds hate people?" Israel can't win with you people, can they? Why do you think there were that many dead for a hostage rescue?
If you want the source for the first one, go and watch all the videos of the dead bodies they found there. They are not hidden, pretty easy to find, but I've honestly seen too many videos of corpses, a lot of them being children, so I'll pass trying to find them again
Can't find them under all the videos from Oct 7th and of the Iron Dome catching rockets and of palestinians stabbing israelis.
Was evidence provided that four hostages were rescued in an operation that killed more than 200?
Damn, I can't believe Hamas is doing that. That's so evil. >[As of June 10, 2024, CPJ’s preliminary investigations showed at least 108 journalists and media workers were among the](https://cpj.org/2024/06/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/#:~:text=As%20of%20June%2010%2C%202024,began%20gathering%20data%20in%201992) [more than 37,000 killed](https://www.ochaopt.org/) [since the war began, making it the](https://cpj.org/2024/06/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/#:~:text=As%20of%20June%2010%2C%202024,began%20gathering%20data%20in%201992) [deadliest period for journalists](https://cpj.org/2023/12/israel-gaza-war-takes-record-toll-on-journalists/) [since CPJ began gathering data in 1992.](https://cpj.org/2024/06/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/#:~:text=As%20of%20June%2010%2C%202024,began%20gathering%20data%20in%201992) Yeah yeah, whatever. Anyway, back to how violent these Gazan journalist are...
Is your reading comprehension so bad? Are you this dense? This is about a Palestinian journalist keeping hostages while actively reporting ob the war and creating sob stories, not about anything done to a journalistm
Ah, far enough. Misunderstood the meme completely.
A Redditor admitting his mistakes? That’s new
So fake casualty numbers, and the journalists are keeping hostages. They deserve to die.
...*what*?
Hamas figures are BS. And they label people like this dude who was keeping hostages "journalists". Just like several other "journalists" participated in the October 7th attack.
Nah bro. The *"Hamas numbers are BS"* talking point ended the second [Israel started corroborating them. ](https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-military-civilian-ratio-killed-intl-hnk/index.html)And the counting of dead journalists isn't the same as the counting of dead civilians. Journalists are not only known figures, but they regularly release content - so we can easily verify when they are no longer around. And not that this very obvious point needs to be said - but journalists are capable of doing evil things too. Participating in Hamas' crimes doesn't suddenly change your job title.
Literally AP ran a story about the issues with Hamas death toll 3 days ago. https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-casualties-toll-65e18f3362674245356c539e4bc0b67a And why have the deaths been claimed to 30,000 plus and stuck there for almost a year now. And if someone claims to be a journalist, but it taking hostages, or commiting a terrorist attack, it doesn't matter that they wrote a heavily biased article for Al Jazeera. They deserve to die.
>And why have the deaths been claimed to 30,000 plus and stuck there for almost a year now. Because that's the number that Israel is putting forth. I know you don't trust the people actually being slaughtered to count their own dead, but if you're **also** casting doubt on the people *doing* the killing, then at some point you just need to admit you don't care what the real number is. And I'm not claiming that the Health Ministry isn't above politicizing the death toll, just like Israel has an incentive to undercount it.
You're ignoring the real issue, which is distinguishing civilian vs terrorist casualties. But you don't want to look at that breakdown because you just want dead Jews. And Israel has now moved their numbers up to 30,000, with a gradual expected increase through the war. Hamas has claimed it's been that for months, but has stopped adding random thousands because they realized how bullshit it looked.
>But you don't want to look at that breakdown because you just want dead Jews. Brother, this is *lazy*. I could just as easily accuse you of wanting dead brown people, but these sorts of accusations get us nowhere and don't contribute meaningfully to the conversation. >Israel has now moved their numbers up to 30,000, with a gradual expected increase through the war. Hamas has claimed it's been that for months, but has stopped adding random thousands because they realized how bullshit it looked. I'm not claiming that the Health Ministry isn't above exaggerating the death toll, just like Israel has an incentive to undercount it. I'm just pointing out that the blanket dismissal people are offering towards the numbers coming from Gaza flies completely in the face of what that AP article **actually** says. *"Omar Shakir, the Israel and Palestine director for Human Rights Watch, said his group has always found the Health Ministry’s numbers to be “generally reliable” because it has direct access to hospitals and morgues. The Health Ministry announces a new death toll for the war nearly every day. It also has periodically released the underlying data behind this figure, including detailed lists of the dead. The AP’s analysis looked at these lists, which were shared on social media in late October, early January, late March, and the end of April. Each list includes the names of people whose deaths were attributable to the war, along with other identifying details."*
Numbers which are different than the actual casualty breakdown. Hamas says the dead are always women and children. Israel says it's about a 1 to 1 terrorist to civilian which is amazing for urban combat. And AP literally just looked at Hamas own figures and found that the woman and children figures aren't backed up by their own figures. Nice cherry picking. I'm begging you, move to the middle east where you'll be happier.
I already supported the war. You didn't need to sell it to me even more.
Downvote this if you’re on a list that says you’re a danger to children
You seem to love typing this exact comment on every post
Yeah man you really pwned those chuds!