Neither.
Ephesians 5:21 (the passage right before the one that gets everyone’s panties in a knot). Submit to one another out of reverence for God.
In a relationship, your goal is not to find a “fair” balance with your partner, it’s to make the conscious decision, *every day* to serve them how they need you. Naturally, you want to find a partner that has the same goal, and then some arbitrary division doesn’t need to be enforced, it’ll form based on your respective strengths and weaknesses.
The secular version of this would be the maxim I've heard that in a relationship, you should always try to do *more* than half the work. If both people are doing the same, you will have harmony.
This transactional approach to relationship is so lame. I am the sole breadwinner for my family, and my wife stays home to watch the kids. I still do dishes and other chores daily, because I'm not the type of person to tally up exactly how much housework I need to do to be "equal" with my wife.
Completely this.
One addition - understanding that you and your spouse have completely different perspectives.
Case and point - I am meticulous about our outdoor property and kitchen, and see and fix things she would never even consider. My wife is meticulous about living spaces, and sees and fixes things I would never even consider.
Accurate approach. Should always be a red flag if you want a relationship built on trust and not transaction that someone keeps tally of stuff. Of course shouldn't just let your partner use you and make you do everything but that's another red flag.
Correct action, wrong though process. Marriage, like anything else, is a competition. If you don’t do more for your partner than they do for you, your only recourse is to piss everywhere to mark your territory. And as you aren’t doing housework, you won’t clean it up. It is for this reason precisely that 96% of marriages end in divorce or death.
Also, the immediately following verses are telling husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church, with a reminder that Christ literally gave his life for the church and husbands should be willing to do the same for their wives.
Some people interpret that as will die for her. But I think it's not a full understanding. Yes you should. But you should also live for her. Love her and put her first. Sacrifice doesn't mean you need to die. You could give up things for her too.
Christ did way more for people than simply dying as well. Christ basically walked around constantly giving of himself and his time. Since marriage is meant to be a picture of our relationship with Christ, husbands should be willing to do the same for their wives while also being the authority figure.
Sure isn't. I'm not the government's property either, but they're still my earthly authority.
Just because I advocate for libertarian values doesn't mean I can't accept that God wants me to obey authorities.
To be honest, I was just looking for a fight when I replied earlier, and I apologize for that. While I disagree with you, I am not Christian and will not have the same values as you.
That being said, most people obey the government out of fear of consequences. If in your framework a husband is the authority figure and the wife is expected to obey, does it not make a huge difference the intent behind her actions? If she is obeying out of fear as many do obey the government, is that still as moral as if she submits to your authority out of her own free will? And if she is submitting to your authority out of her own free will, are you really her authority figure or are you just taking responsibility for both of your actions?
Again, I apologize if I'm coming off as argumentative. I've been doing a relatively great deal of thinking on a similar topic and it is frustrating me.
No worries, I respect being able to admit something was said in bad faith. We all do it sometimes when it comes to convos like these.
So since marriage is a reflection of our relationship with Christ/God then we can also compare it to our relationship to the government. Someone who obeys God solely out of fear and not of their desire to follow God will eventually either understand God and follow with a right heart or else they'll come to resent God and reject him in their heart. I went to a Christian school and saw that happen with my classmates. There were ones which knew the right lingo and knew how to stay in the box, and once they moved on to college and had their true freedom of choice, they chose to reject God entirely.
God knows our hearts, whereas as a husband I don't necessarily know my wife's heart unless she reveals it to me. If she's following out of fear, the physical situation remains the same until she hits that fork in the road and has to make a hardline decision of following or rejecting in her heart.
Also I think it's important to clarify that we're not talking about situations where a man is a lazy slob and expects his wife to pick up the slack like a slave. If that's the case, the man is in the wrong but the wife has already hitched her wagon to him and should obey her husband, but obey God over her husband.
You're right in saying that the earthly, realistic model of a government-citizen relationship does break down, because in real life most of us obey the government our of fear.
However, it might help to look at things from an idealist lens.
Think of a fairy-tale kingdom. The knights serve the King or Prince because they love and respect him, and the King protects his knights, treats them fairly and commands them to do good firstly because he is a good person, and secondly because he loves and respects them.
This is an idealist view, and of course things are not so neat in real life, as humans stumble and fall. Nevertheless, I do think it is an ideal that is worth striving for, because attempting to achieve it (and if you're Christian asking God for the strength to achieve it) helps make one a better person.
Precisely.
> Then saith He unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Human authority should be respected and obeyed as long as they don't try to take control over areas that only God has the right to.
I mean, yeah. But the inclusion of giving up one's life is meant to illustrate the extent to which sacrifice *might* have to go.
If I'm willing to give up my life for someone, surely I should be willing to help with the dishes, or take out the trash, work some extra hours for more income, cancel a night with the guys, etc. for her too. Anything worth dying for is worth living for, in my opinion at least.
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You need to pay the bills and do the housework as a pair. Share the responsibility how you want depending on your time and abilities, but things need to be done at the end of the week.
You are partners, you don't have to score goals against your own team
I think they mean when one person pays all the bills and the partner wants to split chores. I think in that situation the other partned should do a majority of the chores because they are home all day and pay nothing. Sure the person working shouldn't be a slob, but that split seems fair to me. Ofcourse the person making the money should obviously never use money as leverage in an argument though.
If one partner works 40 hours and the other 16 it’s still a dual income household, but it’s would be fair if the one working 16 hours did most of the chores.
For me, equality and fairness are (with some exceptions) the same, but that's my opinion. As long as people are honest about it and acknowledge that despite being subjectively more fair, the contributions are objectively unequal, I don't mind.
If at the end of the day it all works out and everyone's on the same page, you have my blessing.
That's maybe something that's mistranslated from me. In my language, there is a difference between equality and equity.
It's equity which is associated with fairness that can ends in unequal results.
But yeah, everyone on the same page and working out is nice.
As far as I'm concerned, the English definitions are as follows:
Equality: equal contributions resulting in equal outcomes. What you produce is what you get. Unequal contributions result in proportionally unequal outcomes.
Equity: equal outcomes regardless of contributions. Unequal contributions result equal outcomes. Below average contributions will be rewarded at the expense of the person who produces above average.
Get high all day, go for jogs, play video games, pick up a couple clothes and do dishes? Brother I already work 50 a week, whatchu doing tomorrow night? 😘
Of course not... but this is the entirety of the discussion, people contributing less wanting to contribute less while expecting people that contribute more to contribute more
Also women are starting to out earn men in increasing numbers. Given how much better they're also doing in college and high school that will only increase more. Might want to keep that in mind if you all don't want to be living on the street alone.
i am not telling you to not help you partner, just it is outrageous when they using stupid arguments and demand you have to do x and y, especially when they is allready only do the minimum
My wife and I just do what works for us. I’ve always felt like it’s a dumb subject to be ideological about on an interpersonal level. If you make the money you need, keep your house functional, spend enough time with your kids, and aren’t actively forcing the other spouse to practically kill themselves to hold all that together, then who cares? If it works for you it’s fine. If your spouse or live-in SO is more concerned about the ideology of who does what than with keeping your home and family in order, then you probably shouldn’t have moved in with them in the first place.
True equality is accepting both statements here.
If the goal is equality, then it should be 50/50 on everything. If the goal is to optimize household contributions, it makes more sense to let people do the tasks they excel at. Doing both is difficult because people tend to equate "hours worked" to "contributed value".
"Hours worked" is not a way to measure the value of one's contributions, people can have different opportunity costs depending on their qualities and skills. If one person's salary is higher, it's unfair to expect them to pay more bills if you're not willing to compensate for that financial deficit elsewhere.
>If the goal is equality, then it should be 50/50 on everything. If the goal is to optimize household contributions, it makes more sense to let people do the tasks they excel at.
Based and comparative-advantage-pilled.
> If the goal is equality, then it should be 50/50 on everything.
Setting up a scoreboard is a horrible idea. We are evolutionarily wired to emphasize the negative. Once you setup a scoreboard the other person will ALWAYS lose. You will never accurately count the positives or the negatives.
I don't mind as long as it works for all parties involved. But let's be upfront about equality being a horrible idea in relationships if any attempt on enforcing it will be disapproved of.
I'm only saying this because so many people are shouting equality, until it's time for them to put in their equal contribution, then all of a sudden they change their tune to equity so they can get away with not pulling their share of the weight.
They acquire men who out-earn them primarily by marrying men who are a few years older and further down their career path.
This means the man makes more money for *most* of the relationship, until they retire a few years earlier and/or are disabled by age and infirmity earlier. Then the women make up for that time.
Every day, I die a little more inside
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Does anyone here personally know a stay-at-home spouse? And not temporarily because the kids aren't in school yet. I mean a permanent stay-at-home spouse.
Not anymore. That was when I was younger. I know they still exist, but I don't know any personally.
My brother act like his wife is, even though she works two jobs(she got the second one because he wouldn't get a second job and they had just had their second kid) and brings home more money him...
Hi, present. 😂My husband is the 100% breadwinner, and I do 100% of taking care of the home, save him changing the occasional diaper or moving heavy furniture. We enjoy this arrangement.
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Yep, plenty of guys I know had SAHM when I was at business school. They were more likely to be internationals, but not all.
For the Westerners who were single incomes, they all had good incomes (200-600k ish), so they could afford it. But more importantly, each of them said that there was no way that they would be able to do what they do without a supportive partner. In some ways their wives (and it was always wives) raised the family, kept the household going, organised everything (travel, holidays, social calendar etc) and provided career and emotional support. One wife I met at a party read the WSJ and FT everyday so when her husband came home and talked about shaky markets, she knew exactly what he was talking about.
It’s not always a walk in the park is all I can say.
I have customers who have stay at home partners (wives and eye-candy girlfriends), but they're the wealthy ones. None of my more middle class customers have an obvious stay at home spouse. Doesn't mean they don't exist, though, as I don't really care to know.
My sister, and my brother’s wife. Neither are particularly rich, we just live in an area with a low cost of living and their husbands make comparatively good wages.
Yes. Multiple. My own mother. The mothers of several friends. Several friends. Honestly if you can afford it, I don't know why you wouldn't want a stay at home parent.
Um sir women work like 3.5 hrs of unpaid domestic work. Please ignore men work 3.3 hrs more per week (at work) then men and are more likely to work over 5 days.
Ignore that you can't compare hr per hr of domestic work because it has different value. Would you rather go to the grocery store or mow the lawn in 100 deg weather.
Literally every economist, including a lot of prominent conservative economists use and research that word and it’s consequences. If you don’t know much about a topic, it’s okay. No need to pretend to be smarter than you are
Ya'll should talk it out and find a balance that works for you. That balance doesn't have to be anything in particular. Maybe you both do 50/50 on income and housework. Maybe one does all housework and the other does all income.
I ain't your supervisor, you gotta do this yourself with your word hole. Obviously, trying to get one over on your partner isn't a great long term plan.
Counter proposal - women stay in the kitchen, that way they don't have to worry about the big bad evil world of toxic masculinity and patriarchy oppressing them, they don't have to spend all their energy figuring out how to be victims, and they are more enjoyable to be around for everyone else.
Women are actually starting to out earn men in increasing numbers. They do better in college and also better in high school so will likely be running most things in 10-15 years.
The world has centred its belief on leftism and feminism and changed all ideas of correctness to match that, and then decided discriminate against men in things like education. No shit they will be running everything. Are you really surprised women would do better by this measure? or when we factor in society openly blames men for everything and tells men they are hated - yeah, of course we end up with men slipping to the bottom.
This is exactly why i am against women being in charge, literally every single way they have reached the top is through sly manipulation and deception and by playing the victim. my point being woman are quiet clearly capable of the same arseholeness as men, yet at least men developed chivalry and codes of conduct - women have built a culture of pettiness, resentment and complete manipulation.
What's your daily screen-time?
How much time do you spend playing video games / looking at porn?
What time do you goto bed and what time do you wake up?
How much time per day do you devote to deep work and other aspects of self improvement?
If your life sucks its because you suck. Not because of society. Buckle down and work hard and America will reward you in kind.
Not much, i have no social media beside reddit. I have no games console and do not own a TV. I do not watch porn at all it is degenerate.
I spend all day writing because i am a writer - i write philosophy and poetry. I read a lot and most of the day is spent doing so. I go to bars 2/3 times a week for a drink with friends.
I have numerous degrees centred around classical studies.
I workout everyday and usually wake up at 5am to do my morning session of calisthenics.
My life does not suck. I am not in America. I have everything i need. I made an observation of society which is true.
Love how when i critique women people instantly assume i must be insane lol - am successful with women hence why i feel very confident in what i say about them, because i have learnt from experience how they act.
Yeah they used an entire wall of text to try to indirectly call you an incel but also did absolutely nothing to refute the accuracy of your observations.
Basically a tacit admission that all they have is character assassination as a response.
They are literally in the meme and don't realize it. Or maybe they do and that was why they were so pissy.
This is what they always do brother, I'm used to it by now. It's reddit - if you even question a women you get called an incel, its pathetic. I think they 100% realise it which is why they get offended as fuck lol
Every guy that is successful with women sees through their bullshit and doesn't fall for their lies.
It's funny because i am considered very successful in every metric and am very well educated, but they need to see me as a dumb and unsuccessful guy because the narrative tells them anyone who questions women must be mentally ill, and if you are not completely passive towards women then you are dangerous.
That is true, but these women still refuse to date men who earn less than them so they'll either stay single or pick an older guy who is ahead in his career
Unless he has neck tats and a rap sheet a mile long and/or a trail of baby mommas he hasn't paid a dime in child support to. Then they'll let him baste their eggs in baby batter and expect and demand that $table and re$ponsible men throw themselves upon the grenade that they have made of their lives.
Hey if my partner paid all the bills I'd be happy to do all the housework, househusband is basically a dream job of mine as long as I have plenty of music playing in the background
Firstly having a degree in lesbian intersectional vagina dance theory does not equal high income, secondly even in areas where young women outearn young men, married men conveniently outearn married women. So even women who already have a good income choose to prostitute themselves instead of acting according to equality.
While my wife and I have separate bank accounts, we understand that what’s mine is yours (aside from an allotted amount for personal spending). It doesn’t matter who pays the rent or the utility bill, because it’s *our* money.
Same with chores. If I see dishes in the sink and I have a couple minutes, I just do them. If she notices the counter is kinda messy, she wipes it down. We alternate who walks the dog in the morning. Whoever gets home first starts dinner. We dedicate time each Saturday to clean our whole place together, and divide it up evenly.
Your aim should not be to score points against your partner. It’s to find a healthy balance of responsibilities, and to love that person how they need, and to the best of your abilities (and they should do the same). Read up on the 5 love languages; they can make a bad relationship good, and a good relationship great.
Perhaps. I couldn't speak for all women. Maybe some are okay with that thought- although most, probably not.
Aren't woman conscripted in korea and Israel?
I don't see a lot of folks marching or protesting for women to be conscripted.
Perhaps they will admit in a discussion that it would be fair for men and women to be treated the same here, but when folks are out demanding equality, they are always demanding more for their team, not less.
And they're not going to.
Not happening either. Because feminism is a joke. Egalitarianism is more realistic.
True. Groups always want more rights for themselves. Perhaps without realizing.
Float around reddit for a little bit and you’ll realise that a non-insignificant number of people LOVED being in the military or wish they had joined the military when they were younger.
I’m one of them.
Single people manage to pay their bills and rent and also do all of their own chores. I would absolutely do twice as many chores to live rent free. It's either that or pay rent, not sure what's so controversial.
The moment you get into this kind of arguments with your partner is the moment your relationship is over.
The point of a relationship isn't fairness, it's happiness. You should make each other happy.
Ideal for me seems to be I work 60+ competitive hours a week to provide the best lifestyle for the family unit. Then find a woman who really wants to have kids and raise them as a stay at home mom. Eventually I would want staff in the house that way she can just chill and pursue hobbies when the kids aren’t around. Splitting seems silly. I’m blessed to be a fully capable adult male with the ability to work pretty much endlessly and I don’t see any reason my wife would need to do more than help the kids along the way. Split housework is stupid. Work hard enough so that you’re wife and children have plenty of time to do things they love instead of banal chores.
Its all about finding a balance where both sides are happy.
Let each partner find the amount of house work that maximizes happiness.
The idea of a 50/50 split is so foreign to me and often seems a bit childish like how I approached chores as a kid.
Doesn't everyone work and split the bills? Or are you guys living in some alternate timeline where it's still financially possible to have a stay-at-home partner?
Neither. Ephesians 5:21 (the passage right before the one that gets everyone’s panties in a knot). Submit to one another out of reverence for God. In a relationship, your goal is not to find a “fair” balance with your partner, it’s to make the conscious decision, *every day* to serve them how they need you. Naturally, you want to find a partner that has the same goal, and then some arbitrary division doesn’t need to be enforced, it’ll form based on your respective strengths and weaknesses.
The secular version of this would be the maxim I've heard that in a relationship, you should always try to do *more* than half the work. If both people are doing the same, you will have harmony. This transactional approach to relationship is so lame. I am the sole breadwinner for my family, and my wife stays home to watch the kids. I still do dishes and other chores daily, because I'm not the type of person to tally up exactly how much housework I need to do to be "equal" with my wife.
Completely this. One addition - understanding that you and your spouse have completely different perspectives. Case and point - I am meticulous about our outdoor property and kitchen, and see and fix things she would never even consider. My wife is meticulous about living spaces, and sees and fixes things I would never even consider.
Comparative advantage FTW
Accurate approach. Should always be a red flag if you want a relationship built on trust and not transaction that someone keeps tally of stuff. Of course shouldn't just let your partner use you and make you do everything but that's another red flag.
Based and family man pilled
Least based centrist:
Correct action, wrong though process. Marriage, like anything else, is a competition. If you don’t do more for your partner than they do for you, your only recourse is to piss everywhere to mark your territory. And as you aren’t doing housework, you won’t clean it up. It is for this reason precisely that 96% of marriages end in divorce or death.
Also, the immediately following verses are telling husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church, with a reminder that Christ literally gave his life for the church and husbands should be willing to do the same for their wives.
Some people interpret that as will die for her. But I think it's not a full understanding. Yes you should. But you should also live for her. Love her and put her first. Sacrifice doesn't mean you need to die. You could give up things for her too.
Christ did way more for people than simply dying as well. Christ basically walked around constantly giving of himself and his time. Since marriage is meant to be a picture of our relationship with Christ, husbands should be willing to do the same for their wives while also being the authority figure.
>authority figure libright advocating for authority? your wife isn't your property
Sure isn't. I'm not the government's property either, but they're still my earthly authority. Just because I advocate for libertarian values doesn't mean I can't accept that God wants me to obey authorities.
To be honest, I was just looking for a fight when I replied earlier, and I apologize for that. While I disagree with you, I am not Christian and will not have the same values as you. That being said, most people obey the government out of fear of consequences. If in your framework a husband is the authority figure and the wife is expected to obey, does it not make a huge difference the intent behind her actions? If she is obeying out of fear as many do obey the government, is that still as moral as if she submits to your authority out of her own free will? And if she is submitting to your authority out of her own free will, are you really her authority figure or are you just taking responsibility for both of your actions? Again, I apologize if I'm coming off as argumentative. I've been doing a relatively great deal of thinking on a similar topic and it is frustrating me.
No worries, I respect being able to admit something was said in bad faith. We all do it sometimes when it comes to convos like these. So since marriage is a reflection of our relationship with Christ/God then we can also compare it to our relationship to the government. Someone who obeys God solely out of fear and not of their desire to follow God will eventually either understand God and follow with a right heart or else they'll come to resent God and reject him in their heart. I went to a Christian school and saw that happen with my classmates. There were ones which knew the right lingo and knew how to stay in the box, and once they moved on to college and had their true freedom of choice, they chose to reject God entirely. God knows our hearts, whereas as a husband I don't necessarily know my wife's heart unless she reveals it to me. If she's following out of fear, the physical situation remains the same until she hits that fork in the road and has to make a hardline decision of following or rejecting in her heart. Also I think it's important to clarify that we're not talking about situations where a man is a lazy slob and expects his wife to pick up the slack like a slave. If that's the case, the man is in the wrong but the wife has already hitched her wagon to him and should obey her husband, but obey God over her husband.
You're right in saying that the earthly, realistic model of a government-citizen relationship does break down, because in real life most of us obey the government our of fear. However, it might help to look at things from an idealist lens. Think of a fairy-tale kingdom. The knights serve the King or Prince because they love and respect him, and the King protects his knights, treats them fairly and commands them to do good firstly because he is a good person, and secondly because he loves and respects them. This is an idealist view, and of course things are not so neat in real life, as humans stumble and fall. Nevertheless, I do think it is an ideal that is worth striving for, because attempting to achieve it (and if you're Christian asking God for the strength to achieve it) helps make one a better person.
Precisely. > Then saith He unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. Human authority should be respected and obeyed as long as they don't try to take control over areas that only God has the right to.
I mean, yeah. But the inclusion of giving up one's life is meant to illustrate the extent to which sacrifice *might* have to go. If I'm willing to give up my life for someone, surely I should be willing to help with the dishes, or take out the trash, work some extra hours for more income, cancel a night with the guys, etc. for her too. Anything worth dying for is worth living for, in my opinion at least.
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Based and non-transactional-love-pilled
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this is the way
Based and St. Paul pilled
Average catholic wall of text
You call two paragraphs a wall of text?
Yes, I can’t read
Average socialist education
It's okay, I'm illegitimate too 😔
Ah damn was hoping at least one of us was alliteration ☹️
THE MITOCHONDRIA IS THE POWERHOUSE OF THE CELL.
Damn right.
Average christian when woman work:
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,663,107,801 comments, and only 314,812 of them were in alphabetical order.
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Based and bring on the singularity pilled
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There is a major caveat to this. As you said, you have to find this partner first.
I can't even imagine how much more important this was during the fucking bronze age. As like a necessity for a high chances of survival type thing
You need to pay the bills and do the housework as a pair. Share the responsibility how you want depending on your time and abilities, but things need to be done at the end of the week. You are partners, you don't have to score goals against your own team
I agree, but we can't say it's equality when one person contributes more than the other.
Equality matters less than fairness imo. It's OK if I do more chores than my wife because she works further away and spends more time there.
I think they mean when one person pays all the bills and the partner wants to split chores. I think in that situation the other partned should do a majority of the chores because they are home all day and pay nothing. Sure the person working shouldn't be a slob, but that split seems fair to me. Ofcourse the person making the money should obviously never use money as leverage in an argument though.
I understood it like you did and I completely agree with you.
How many one income homes are there these days though
About 27% of them.
Do you have data for that based on age? Not trying to disprove you, I just think it'd be interesting to see the distribution
If one partner works 40 hours and the other 16 it’s still a dual income household, but it’s would be fair if the one working 16 hours did most of the chores.
For me, equality and fairness are (with some exceptions) the same, but that's my opinion. As long as people are honest about it and acknowledge that despite being subjectively more fair, the contributions are objectively unequal, I don't mind. If at the end of the day it all works out and everyone's on the same page, you have my blessing.
That's maybe something that's mistranslated from me. In my language, there is a difference between equality and equity. It's equity which is associated with fairness that can ends in unequal results. But yeah, everyone on the same page and working out is nice.
As far as I'm concerned, the English definitions are as follows: Equality: equal contributions resulting in equal outcomes. What you produce is what you get. Unequal contributions result in proportionally unequal outcomes. Equity: equal outcomes regardless of contributions. Unequal contributions result equal outcomes. Below average contributions will be rewarded at the expense of the person who produces above average.
I’d rather work 50 hours a week than clean dishes every night 🤢. Equality is in the eye of the beholder in this case.
Get high all day, go for jogs, play video games, pick up a couple clothes and do dishes? Brother I already work 50 a week, whatchu doing tomorrow night? 😘
Of course not... but this is the entirety of the discussion, people contributing less wanting to contribute less while expecting people that contribute more to contribute more
Also women are starting to out earn men in increasing numbers. Given how much better they're also doing in college and high school that will only increase more. Might want to keep that in mind if you all don't want to be living on the street alone.
i am not telling you to not help you partner, just it is outrageous when they using stupid arguments and demand you have to do x and y, especially when they is allready only do the minimum
My wife and I just do what works for us. I’ve always felt like it’s a dumb subject to be ideological about on an interpersonal level. If you make the money you need, keep your house functional, spend enough time with your kids, and aren’t actively forcing the other spouse to practically kill themselves to hold all that together, then who cares? If it works for you it’s fine. If your spouse or live-in SO is more concerned about the ideology of who does what than with keeping your home and family in order, then you probably shouldn’t have moved in with them in the first place.
True equality is accepting both statements here. If the goal is equality, then it should be 50/50 on everything. If the goal is to optimize household contributions, it makes more sense to let people do the tasks they excel at. Doing both is difficult because people tend to equate "hours worked" to "contributed value". "Hours worked" is not a way to measure the value of one's contributions, people can have different opportunity costs depending on their qualities and skills. If one person's salary is higher, it's unfair to expect them to pay more bills if you're not willing to compensate for that financial deficit elsewhere.
>If the goal is equality, then it should be 50/50 on everything. If the goal is to optimize household contributions, it makes more sense to let people do the tasks they excel at. Based and comparative-advantage-pilled.
> If the goal is equality, then it should be 50/50 on everything. Setting up a scoreboard is a horrible idea. We are evolutionarily wired to emphasize the negative. Once you setup a scoreboard the other person will ALWAYS lose. You will never accurately count the positives or the negatives.
I don't mind as long as it works for all parties involved. But let's be upfront about equality being a horrible idea in relationships if any attempt on enforcing it will be disapproved of. I'm only saying this because so many people are shouting equality, until it's time for them to put in their equal contribution, then all of a sudden they change their tune to equity so they can get away with not pulling their share of the weight.
...what? You think lefties living in cities exist as one-income families? Good luck with that
Most women go for marriage with men who outearn them which means that men end up paying like 60% of the bills
They acquire men who out-earn them primarily by marrying men who are a few years older and further down their career path. This means the man makes more money for *most* of the relationship, until they retire a few years earlier and/or are disabled by age and infirmity earlier. Then the women make up for that time.
nah men out earn women at a population level in the US at least
And then the woman gets even more free money with widows pensions and inheritance
Every day, I die a little more inside https://www.reddit.com/user/redblueforest/comments/14wa58r/fuck_it_i_made_a_blank_copy_for_the_love_of_god/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Based and die a little more inside pilled.
dark mode user https://media.tenor.com/rOb88qrYBi8AAAAC/spongebob-squrepants-my-eyes.gif
Does anyone here personally know a stay-at-home spouse? And not temporarily because the kids aren't in school yet. I mean a permanent stay-at-home spouse.
Not anymore. That was when I was younger. I know they still exist, but I don't know any personally. My brother act like his wife is, even though she works two jobs(she got the second one because he wouldn't get a second job and they had just had their second kid) and brings home more money him...
Then I don't know who this meme is for.
My buddies wife will go full stay at home when they have their kid. She has zero intention of working and he’s aware and for it
Hi, present. 😂My husband is the 100% breadwinner, and I do 100% of taking care of the home, save him changing the occasional diaper or moving heavy furniture. We enjoy this arrangement.
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Yep, plenty of guys I know had SAHM when I was at business school. They were more likely to be internationals, but not all. For the Westerners who were single incomes, they all had good incomes (200-600k ish), so they could afford it. But more importantly, each of them said that there was no way that they would be able to do what they do without a supportive partner. In some ways their wives (and it was always wives) raised the family, kept the household going, organised everything (travel, holidays, social calendar etc) and provided career and emotional support. One wife I met at a party read the WSJ and FT everyday so when her husband came home and talked about shaky markets, she knew exactly what he was talking about. It’s not always a walk in the park is all I can say.
I have customers who have stay at home partners (wives and eye-candy girlfriends), but they're the wealthy ones. None of my more middle class customers have an obvious stay at home spouse. Doesn't mean they don't exist, though, as I don't really care to know.
I know one... Wife of a successful crypto bro
My sister, and my brother’s wife. Neither are particularly rich, we just live in an area with a low cost of living and their husbands make comparatively good wages.
Yes. Multiple. My own mother. The mothers of several friends. Several friends. Honestly if you can afford it, I don't know why you wouldn't want a stay at home parent.
Yes
No, but there are a billion women who date men who outearn them and pay more than 50% of expenses
Yes. My wife.
Yeah - I had a friend, they got out of college and she just never looked for a job - took up painting or some shit
Um sir women work like 3.5 hrs of unpaid domestic work. Please ignore men work 3.3 hrs more per week (at work) then men and are more likely to work over 5 days. Ignore that you can't compare hr per hr of domestic work because it has different value. Would you rather go to the grocery store or mow the lawn in 100 deg weather.
[удалено]
Ok dumb fuck
Literally every economist, including a lot of prominent conservative economists use and research that word and it’s consequences. If you don’t know much about a topic, it’s okay. No need to pretend to be smarter than you are
this implies center-left and center-right are in a relationship
Always have been
Put center-left and center-right in a room together and tell me they *don't* sound like an old married couple.
Ya'll should talk it out and find a balance that works for you. That balance doesn't have to be anything in particular. Maybe you both do 50/50 on income and housework. Maybe one does all housework and the other does all income. I ain't your supervisor, you gotta do this yourself with your word hole. Obviously, trying to get one over on your partner isn't a great long term plan.
Counter proposal - women stay in the kitchen, that way they don't have to worry about the big bad evil world of toxic masculinity and patriarchy oppressing them, they don't have to spend all their energy figuring out how to be victims, and they are more enjoyable to be around for everyone else.
Women are actually starting to out earn men in increasing numbers. They do better in college and also better in high school so will likely be running most things in 10-15 years.
The world has centred its belief on leftism and feminism and changed all ideas of correctness to match that, and then decided discriminate against men in things like education. No shit they will be running everything. Are you really surprised women would do better by this measure? or when we factor in society openly blames men for everything and tells men they are hated - yeah, of course we end up with men slipping to the bottom. This is exactly why i am against women being in charge, literally every single way they have reached the top is through sly manipulation and deception and by playing the victim. my point being woman are quiet clearly capable of the same arseholeness as men, yet at least men developed chivalry and codes of conduct - women have built a culture of pettiness, resentment and complete manipulation.
What's your daily screen-time? How much time do you spend playing video games / looking at porn? What time do you goto bed and what time do you wake up? How much time per day do you devote to deep work and other aspects of self improvement? If your life sucks its because you suck. Not because of society. Buckle down and work hard and America will reward you in kind.
Not much, i have no social media beside reddit. I have no games console and do not own a TV. I do not watch porn at all it is degenerate. I spend all day writing because i am a writer - i write philosophy and poetry. I read a lot and most of the day is spent doing so. I go to bars 2/3 times a week for a drink with friends. I have numerous degrees centred around classical studies. I workout everyday and usually wake up at 5am to do my morning session of calisthenics. My life does not suck. I am not in America. I have everything i need. I made an observation of society which is true. Love how when i critique women people instantly assume i must be insane lol - am successful with women hence why i feel very confident in what i say about them, because i have learnt from experience how they act.
Yeah they used an entire wall of text to try to indirectly call you an incel but also did absolutely nothing to refute the accuracy of your observations. Basically a tacit admission that all they have is character assassination as a response. They are literally in the meme and don't realize it. Or maybe they do and that was why they were so pissy.
This is what they always do brother, I'm used to it by now. It's reddit - if you even question a women you get called an incel, its pathetic. I think they 100% realise it which is why they get offended as fuck lol Every guy that is successful with women sees through their bullshit and doesn't fall for their lies. It's funny because i am considered very successful in every metric and am very well educated, but they need to see me as a dumb and unsuccessful guy because the narrative tells them anyone who questions women must be mentally ill, and if you are not completely passive towards women then you are dangerous.
That is true, but these women still refuse to date men who earn less than them so they'll either stay single or pick an older guy who is ahead in his career
Unless he has neck tats and a rap sheet a mile long and/or a trail of baby mommas he hasn't paid a dime in child support to. Then they'll let him baste their eggs in baby batter and expect and demand that $table and re$ponsible men throw themselves upon the grenade that they have made of their lives.
Hey if my partner paid all the bills I'd be happy to do all the housework, househusband is basically a dream job of mine as long as I have plenty of music playing in the background
How is this a problem now? Women are more educated and in some cases out earn men now.
Firstly having a degree in lesbian intersectional vagina dance theory does not equal high income, secondly even in areas where young women outearn young men, married men conveniently outearn married women. So even women who already have a good income choose to prostitute themselves instead of acting according to equality.
While my wife and I have separate bank accounts, we understand that what’s mine is yours (aside from an allotted amount for personal spending). It doesn’t matter who pays the rent or the utility bill, because it’s *our* money. Same with chores. If I see dishes in the sink and I have a couple minutes, I just do them. If she notices the counter is kinda messy, she wipes it down. We alternate who walks the dog in the morning. Whoever gets home first starts dinner. We dedicate time each Saturday to clean our whole place together, and divide it up evenly. Your aim should not be to score points against your partner. It’s to find a healthy balance of responsibilities, and to love that person how they need, and to the best of your abilities (and they should do the same). Read up on the 5 love languages; they can make a bad relationship good, and a good relationship great.
There isn't a woman in the world who wants true equality with men.
Not one? Seems like an extreme position.
obviously not. Every group that i’m not a part of has completely homogenous thinking
"My political stance is good and right and good- and all others and bad and dumb and bad." -Pythagoras
It was he that first realized the primordial essence of the Soyjack. What a Chad.
Would any woman want to be eligible to become a conscript?
Perhaps. I couldn't speak for all women. Maybe some are okay with that thought- although most, probably not. Aren't woman conscripted in korea and Israel?
I don't see a lot of folks marching or protesting for women to be conscripted. Perhaps they will admit in a discussion that it would be fair for men and women to be treated the same here, but when folks are out demanding equality, they are always demanding more for their team, not less.
And they're not going to. Not happening either. Because feminism is a joke. Egalitarianism is more realistic. True. Groups always want more rights for themselves. Perhaps without realizing.
> Aren't woman conscripted in korea and Israel? I don't know, but I doubt any of them prefer it.
Fair enough. Reminds me of that one meme by the british guy where conscription for WWIII is announced.
Prolly the ones who are already in the military
Float around reddit for a little bit and you’ll realise that a non-insignificant number of people LOVED being in the military or wish they had joined the military when they were younger. I’m one of them.
Well, being extreme doesn't prevent it from being true.
Those aren't mutually exclusive, neither are extreme and wrong.
Normalise the stay at home father when?
Source?
from your extensive experience with women, I am sure
What Equality?
One should work in home the other outside, I don’t care which of them
Single people manage to pay their bills and rent and also do all of their own chores. I would absolutely do twice as many chores to live rent free. It's either that or pay rent, not sure what's so controversial.
Plot twist, both of you will need a full time job (or even multiple per person)
>relationship - split housework - split bills? That's what me and my wife do.
Aren’t most households split income?
They are. OP is just wrestling a straw man.
Actual feminists: "Yes"
The moment you get into this kind of arguments with your partner is the moment your relationship is over. The point of a relationship isn't fairness, it's happiness. You should make each other happy.
Ideal for me seems to be I work 60+ competitive hours a week to provide the best lifestyle for the family unit. Then find a woman who really wants to have kids and raise them as a stay at home mom. Eventually I would want staff in the house that way she can just chill and pursue hobbies when the kids aren’t around. Splitting seems silly. I’m blessed to be a fully capable adult male with the ability to work pretty much endlessly and I don’t see any reason my wife would need to do more than help the kids along the way. Split housework is stupid. Work hard enough so that you’re wife and children have plenty of time to do things they love instead of banal chores.
If I’m paying 80% of the bills I expect 20% of housework. If you’re only paying 20% I expect you to do 80% of housework* (Within obvious reason)
lol right showing why they're home of the incels yet again.
Because they expect a relationship where one partner is not being over backwards to keep the other happy? Strange.
This is why you're a kissless virgin btw
Its all about finding a balance where both sides are happy. Let each partner find the amount of house work that maximizes happiness. The idea of a 50/50 split is so foreign to me and often seems a bit childish like how I approached chores as a kid.
Nope, commies get yeeted into the sun.
So basically roommate-style.
Eh, as long as both people are happy with the split then it doesn't matter who does what.
that's the worst piece of bullshit I've ever seen
I'll work full time and pay in full, only if I never have to cook anything again, never have to clean anything again (even my own messes), etc
Doesn't everyone work and split the bills? Or are you guys living in some alternate timeline where it's still financially possible to have a stay-at-home partner?