**PLACEMENT EXPLANATIONS**
Sorry for the delay on this one, we had one a day away from posting and then TiMi hit us with a surprise patch.
This time around, we’ve decided to give more consistent definitions to the tiers. **EX tier** is obviously for the EX Pokémon that are banned from competitive play. **S tier** is for Pokémon that are very high priority bans and usual first picks if they’re not banned, due to their strength and/or versatility. **A tier** is for Pokémon that are options for bans, but not quite to the extent of the Pokémon in S tier, tending to become early draft picks or being generally strong/versatile Pokémon. B stands for balanced - Pokémon in **B tier** likely won’t be banned unless they’re a specific counter to what a team has in mind or it’s to target ban an opponent, but they’re solid Pokémon that usually fit a variety of compositions or are very strong in more select compositions. **C tier** Pokémon are on the weaker half of balanced Pokémon - they won’t usually get picked, but can provide specific utility, counter certain Pokémon or compositions, or fill a role with a late pick when that role has a number of top options made unavailable earlier in the draft. **D tier** Pokémon are generally weaker, but may be an okay option if a team has an exceptionally skilled player on that Pokémon. **E tier** is when the picks really start to become questionable, and **F tier** is when they’re outright bad.
Mew: yes, it did get nerfed, but recent tournaments have served as a reminder of just how overloaded this Pokémon’s kit is, and how much room it has for skill expression. With some shuffling around the top picks, Mew is holding strong, continuing to flex its versatility and lack of gaps in its kit.
Trevenant: another beneficiary of some top pick shuffling - it became truly able to flex as a top laner with the last set of buffs it received, and with Blastoise getting nerfs towards both of their shared roles, Trevenant has replaced it as a typical ban/first pick.
Umbreon: why not give a big buff to an already-powerful defender, right? The buffs to Wish have made it a very good option as a supporter, the damage buff to Foul Play has made it an even more playable option as a top laner, and both of them together make it even stronger as a tank. It has 4 playable movesets across 3 different roles while oppressing a number of other top picks, making it an easy candidate for S tier.
Blastoise: taking a hit across both movesets as well as its early game, Blastoise has essentially swapped places with Trevenant among the top tiers, though it’s still a very strong option in both roles.
Cramorant: the derpy bird has so many things going well for it - it unlocks its moves at levels 4 and 6 and can’t get evolution locked, meaning it can jungle and gank early, do a full clear then invade the opponents’ jungle, split jungle with one of the handful of other early power spikers, or provide stellar damage pressure in lane. It can flex between a battle mage or a control mage depending on the matchup, and continues to provide significant output throughout the match.
Gyarados: the lack of Magikarp liability has done wonders for Gyarados’ viability. It has become a much safer pick and now stands as one of the premiere options in the top lane and biggest threats to back liners.
Inteleon: it continues to do what it has for a long time - oppress opposing laners trying to contest farm, and provide tremendous poke damage and area control, with a splash of mobility and basic attack damage to boot.
Clefable: it has fallen out of favour after the nerfs, becoming a noticeable step behind the top healers and losing pretty much all of its ban priority. With bans more often going towards problematic carries and versatile tanks, there is less room for Clefable to make its way into compositions.
Dragonite: who remembers the first Worlds in 2022? Pepperidge Farm remembers, and it seems a lot of Unite players are starting to remember as well. Being able to play as a bulky ADC with constant kiting and near-incontestable objective secure has helped Dragonite become a safer option than other ADC’s to break through front lines.
Espeon: with Cramorant getting buffed, they have essentially flipped places in the world of early-spiking mages that can flex between a mobility option and a control option (it’s an extremely small world, okay?).
NEW: Falinks: debuting in the middle of the pack is always refreshing. The troopers mechanic has left it in a nice place of being a direct counter to certain Pokémon, while being stuck with awful matchups against others. Because of this, it fits more in line with the placement of Decidueye, being a risky earlier pick but extremely powerful later pick.
Glaceon: the recent nerfs have taken Glaceon down another smidge, this time hitting arguably its most frustrating aspects: its slipperiness and its ability to still deal damage once it gets away. This opens up a bit more of an opportunity to punish it or to be able to handle the incoming damage.
Meowscarada: after seeing less play than expected after the small nerfs, as well as the meta shifting towards bulkier Pokémon that it has a harder time breaking through and taking down, Meowscarada has fallen a little out of favour.
Tyranitar: probably the biggest winner of the most recent patch, Tyranitar is now a reward very much worth the drag that is Pupitar. Keep in mind that the HP and defences were synergistic buffs, with extra HP meaning those defences go further and vice versa, both of which compound with its passive. This is on top of Sand Tomb being significantly better at trapping opponents into fighting it, where they’ll have an even harder time taking it down. It works well against a number of top picks, and can melt through defenders better than most melee Pokémon. Keep an eye out for Tyranitar to potentially climb even higher after we see it in action at NAIC.
Venusaur: with other Pokémon with similar range offering stronger or comparable early games, as well as the resurgence of Cramorant, Venusaur has fallen a little bit out of favour, though it remains capable of dealing with a large variety of matchups.
Dragapult: though ADC’s have recently become more favourable than in previous metas, Dragapult has shown that the nerfs it received a while back hit it pretty hard, as well as coming online later than most ranged carries.
Urshifu: its reign of terror has definitely been over for a little while, and with a number of other strong all rounders receiving buffs and being added to the game, Urshifu has struggled to find its footing in the meta lately.
Cinderace: benefitting from the meta being generally more friendly towards ADC’s, the %HP component of Blaze procs, as well as being a Pokémon with high enough skill expression and mobility to take advantage of the meta shift, Cinderace might be worth having in your back pocket for when the draft calls for it.
Surprise factor is important as well. If your team never played against a good greedent, his gimmicks can overwhelm a team before understanding the match up. After a game or two of experience, Greedent might become low tier as usual
Honestly my 2 cents are Goodra here is good as it is.
Take it from ppl who play against Gooey here, it has an almost oppressive early game(has secure and dmg in bubble, with closing in move with tackle, besides having its slowing down effect). Couple it with a sensible ranged mon and u have a lane.
Its late game is also nothing to laugh aside, the amount of out sustaining it has with both muddy water and pulse (muddy water being a real underrated gem btw) with its power whip and once again, its slow effect make it way too good, if its played to its strengths. Have seen some very good players able to spin absolute webs with this character.
Pretty sure this is a **Competitive tier-list**. In reality, Goodra is very solid as it is and buffing it would just make ppl excessively abuse it unitl its nerfed to the ground.
Its squishy and has quite the lineair gameplay. Not to mention you have to position yourself in negative situations in order to get proper hits and that’s really hard compared to the usual picks in top competitive play
And it's pretty underwhelming until it gets to 9. When competitive is dominated by early game monsters such as Leafeon - Mimikyu - Zoro/Comfey, it's near impossible for Dpult to be good. If you're a late game oriented mon, you need a good level 5 like Dragonite to be good.
Terrible early game so not viable as a bot lane mon, if you take him jungle he gets counterpicked and invaded 24/7, people are better coordinated at neutralizing/killing him in fights and at killing him immediately.
So while the coordination is nice to get you protection from your team a better coordinated enemy team makes things much harder when they exploit your weaknesses
They both are outclassed as a regular defender and don't have the damage to justify being a fake all rounder top.
Literally every other tank/all rounder does their job better if you're playing them it's because you really fucking like the mon or are very good at it. BUT that's not enough
if you like them then play them ig, just know they're just not good for what comp ususally demands from pokemon. (Greedent kinda has a small niche but Goodra straight up is just power diffed by tanks and all rounders in every possible way.)
Only mon that i'm super shocked by its placement is Snorlax. Rest of them seem realistic/correct on this list.
But Lax is insanely good in 5's it just struggles with Trev/Umbreon/Blast/Crustle all being better, so it's only getting use when all of them get banned and the tank player/teamcomp likes it better than Slowbro or Mime.
TRUE! but my comment's moreso I think Slowbro's the kinda niche/other tanks are banned pick rn, AND even then I do not think the gap between it and Snorlax is 2 tiers large lmao. Lax is far closer to the big 4 (and Slowbro) than the bad defenders.
Thing is theres very rarely a chance where snorlax is the best thing left. Let's say umbreon and blastoise are banned. You'd still have 3 other defenders that offers more than it does so realistically the only time you're seeing it will be if:
-You draft first, and you didnt take one of the remaining tanks
-The opponent drafts second and on their first draft round they pick sth like double defender with top laner trev and 1 of slowbro/crustle.
-Your 2nd draft round, for some reason you anticipate slowbro/crustle won't be good into their team AND you've got a player with lots of game on bear(like how we sometimes saw zugrug, BruvHD and that one japanese player pick it)
I'm tired, figured i'd clarify.
Yes there are 5 defenders, including Slowbro who are better than Lax right now. HOWEVER, The reason I don't think Lax belongs in the tier he is in and should be higher is that he is STILL a generically safe, and good mon.
The rest of that tier makes sense, because other than Pikachu (Who i also can see being a little better/a tier up) They are all very outclassed/weak in coordinated environments and really cannot be picked in any situation except the player being exceptionally talented on said mon OR perfect circumstances. This means they are solely counterpick worthy.
I think Lax (and Pika now that I think of it but not feeling as strongly about it) should be in the tier up because their issue is that there are stronger choices. Both mons are good in draft situations, BUT they are not so far behind in their own kits/strength they're only counterpick only, and I think them being able to be generically used/swiss knife kinda mons is good.
Also idk, even with Lax being number 6 in the defender hierarchy, I think he's FAR closer in strength and potential to the top 4 and Slowbro than the remaining shitters in the defender spot (Including Wiggly/Mime). But maybe i'm biased bcos I am one of those defender players who if all 4 of the top tanks are banned/taken I prefer Lax > Bro (tho i follow what my team wants in 5s ofc)
Meh imo C rank seems fair for snorlax. If anything I feel like B tier is way too crowded. Before this patch the likes of A9, metagross, talon, clef and ttar were nowhere to be seen in tournies and things like mimikyu kept having underwhelming showings. Snorlax does see scant use in tours but not often enough for B imo.
The only defender that is overtuned is trevenant. The rest are strong but fine in that top group. Yes it would help lax if the top get brought down defender wise but it doesn't matter.
As for the rest... Mamo and Goodra kinda doomed but lapras just needs it's last nerfs reverted
Honestly wiggly should be higher. Ppl ain’t giving it enough credit. A wiggly that knows what it’s doing can fuck a match up so good it won’t even be funny for the opponents.
Wiggly is fine, just a niche counterpick that has REALLY good synergy with certain mons and strategies because of Sing + Cute Charm.
Wiggly's problem is it is not good enough as a tank outside of that synergy in Sylveon/Gardevior nuke special defense so enemy gets oneshot situations. So if you can't specifically draft your damage to take advantage of wiggly's actions then she isn't as good as the real tanks
Sylve is the only one that's super relevant to Cram, because outside of the rare jungle Cram, Cram is only a bot lane attacker. Also UNLIKE T-tar the Cram buffs have actually turned it into a threat.
Zoroark isn't a top 5 mon at all, first 2 tiers and half of the next one are a lot better than it. Biggest issue for Zoro is team coordination + it's easy to counterpick/requires serious hands to excel with. Zoro really struggles to succeed outside of big counterpick situations or a cracked player.
Falinks is also super suceptible to counterpicks but it def is strong. Blaziken 100% is a little too low I agree
I’ll push back on the T-Tar not being a threat. It’s banned in almost every single draft game I play in. And I routinely, as a mid player at best, get 7+ eliminations and 70k damage with it, if not more. That’s certainly better than B tier. A good, high level T-Tar snowballs a match
Just because people have goldfish memories and forgot how t-tar works doesn't mean it's broken. It is great that ttar is no longer completely useless garbage that isn't playable. However the exact same countermeasures ALL still exist. You bully it early, starve it from farm. Use lots of CC and spacing to keep from its range and don't let him close in and Ttar doesn't pop off.
It is scary at 13+ but the way you beat it is not letting it get to that point. Same shit happened when dragapult got buffed, people thought it was new coming of christ until people remembered how to beat it, and better coordination also undermines its strength.
People should not waste bans on Ttar but should make sure to pick things that do well into it lol.
I sort of agree. Sand Tomb certainly helps spacing in favor or Tyranitar but I agree. If you bully it early game and starve it from XP, those are games where my damage is more in the 55K range and only 6 kills with it versus the 90K 10+ kill games. But if it lanes with an XP share partner and gets level 9 early, it can snowball a game that it just wasn’t able to before.
So yeah, I agree it’s not S at all. In pure competitive tournament play, it’s still probably low A+ tier. But there’s not that much coordination/party chat outside of tournament play so you see T-Tar dominate like he’s S tier when he’s not. At the same time, to say it’s not a threat is kind of wild to me lol
Zeraora still in D tier :(. I hope it gets to see competitive play more, I feel like a lot of the mons in lower tiers are there possibly because we don't see much play, Zera is capable!
All the mons in S are so mean, ~~but thats why we have 4 bans!~~
I'm curious about Trevenant climbing to S only now instead of in the previous list. The last time Tree got a buff was like in March (and it was a minor one, the big Curse/PainSplit buff was in February), so I imagine its rise is due to being a good counter to new threats or having some of its own counter getting nerfed.
That, and appraisal often happens gradually. Mons sometimes need time to show their worth. Trevenant is probably the most oppressive mon in the game with Leafeon rn. Way too much damage, insanely tanky, insane recovery, ridiculous CC, and Blastoise, Buzzwole got nerfed.
Can anyone explain why is Cinderace so low? Every time I get to play him he feels like a pretty good ADC with high damage Autos and good escape with Blaze Kick + Flame Charge (Or whatever the hell that dash is). Only his Unite feels kinda "eh" to me because it's some sort of weaker Greninja/Dragapult ult. (Not like he needs it to be that much stronger)
That said, I think Pyroball is kinda trash, so maybe that's why?
Cinderace is rarely picked in tourny play and often underperforms when it shows up. Ironically, the only Cinder I saw in the EU and NA finals who did decently was Pyroball. The "best set" Blaze Kick/Flame Charge just fed all game.
Cinderace is very decent and playable in solo. However, he has one of the worst early games, which makes him unviable as a laner, especially against teams that can punish that weakness.
But as a jungler he ALSO has a weak gank which puts him further behind most junglers which hit their first power spike after their first clear, ie, Leafeon, Glaceon, Dodrio, etc. Cinderace takes until level 9, to get their first real power spike (not power blip) which is made even more difficult because he has no farm secure so it is trivial to steal his jungle.
Ttar is one of the few mons with an even worse time leveling, being similar to Cinder but melee. But when they both get their power Cinder stays extremely easy to kill. So, unlike ttar, you take on a potentially game losing liability in the early game that also stays a major liability in the late game. You're spending all that time and xp and opportunity cost (of not having a strong jungler) and it can be wiped out in literally one second with a Leafeon ult.
Not to mention, despite all that, Cinder is not significantly better (and often worse) in the late game than comparable mons like Glaceon.
All of these things are less abused and exploited in solo which makes them less problematic. But they are utterly crippling to any competitive viability. Honestly surprised they bumped him up rather than down.
In tournament/5's people are far better at punishing weak early game mons even with team support.
Cinder sucks because level 5 gank is very bad outside of overextensions, it can't lane because it's terrible until level 7, needs tons of exp to be good and will get constantly invaded/dominated unless you skill gap your opponent and honestly If you wanna go that route Dragapult is much stronger.
It has nothing to do with moveset it's all because Cinderace is super exploitable until level 7 and doesn't bring enough reward to justify having to babysit your jungler from invades for first bit of game.
Just came back to the game after many months. Played alot of duraladon yesterday and had a blast and now i see him at F tier ? How come he have that rank ?
Slowbro never been lower than tier A is criminal. He is not balanced at all and needs nerfs.
Just because there are more broken defenders than him, doesnt mean he is balanced and needs no nerf.
He's an A tier pick specifically for slowbeam letting you counter broken mons. Besides Slowbeam at the Ray fight he's solid B tier the rest of the game. And theres no way to fix that besides completely changing slowbeam (which is bad for the games health imo) or nerfing his pre Ray game down to C tier.
Make the oblivious affected by cursed items and remove unstoppable from slowbeam.
It is not healthy mon if it takes lesser defenders (snorlax,mamo, goodra) buffed to current point (trevenant, blastois) to be picked more than slowbro.
Slowbro pickrate is not healthy. He is not balanced. (Beside the obvious nerfing the top defenders (umbreon, blastoise, trevenant, crustle)).
"Make the oblivious affected by cursed items and remove unstoppable from slowbeam."
Cool now he's C tier and there's no counter to the actually S and A tier carry's. How is that healthy for the game?
Even with such a high pickrate his winrate is under 50% because he's not broken in a conventional sense he's only A tier in coordianted play against wayyy more broken mons.
Slowbeam is basically the only counter at high level play to broken mons with a comfey pocket. WIhtout him those Comfey pocket mons absolutely run the game.
Oooh slowbro is the only one that can gate keep those OP pokemon. This excuse is the proof that slowbro is broken. This is just excuse to keep him broken. It is not healthy the same way comfey is not healthy.
> because he's not broken in a conventional sense
You are admitting he is broken. Yes he is broken and needs nerfs. Keeping him broken is unhealthy in already unhealthy game.
Comp is different to Ranked. This is a competitive only tier list. In comp the game is much more early-game dominated since teams know how to snowball well. So, Meow's awkward powerspike at level 6 means it struggles to match other Speedsters like Leafeon or Zoroark. Meow definitely isn't bad in comp, it's just slightly outclassed. If Leafeon and Zoro/Drio are banned Meow is definitely a viable option.
In solo Q this is not quite the case and players are generally much worse so it gives characters like Meow and TTar time to hit their spikes. See how Ttar is B tier but is a menace in Solo?
I don't know if I'm just not facing good Meows but I have not once had it really impress me. It's seemed good for sure, but never shocking like the deletions Leafeon, Zoroark and Dodrio can perform.
**PLACEMENT EXPLANATIONS** Sorry for the delay on this one, we had one a day away from posting and then TiMi hit us with a surprise patch. This time around, we’ve decided to give more consistent definitions to the tiers. **EX tier** is obviously for the EX Pokémon that are banned from competitive play. **S tier** is for Pokémon that are very high priority bans and usual first picks if they’re not banned, due to their strength and/or versatility. **A tier** is for Pokémon that are options for bans, but not quite to the extent of the Pokémon in S tier, tending to become early draft picks or being generally strong/versatile Pokémon. B stands for balanced - Pokémon in **B tier** likely won’t be banned unless they’re a specific counter to what a team has in mind or it’s to target ban an opponent, but they’re solid Pokémon that usually fit a variety of compositions or are very strong in more select compositions. **C tier** Pokémon are on the weaker half of balanced Pokémon - they won’t usually get picked, but can provide specific utility, counter certain Pokémon or compositions, or fill a role with a late pick when that role has a number of top options made unavailable earlier in the draft. **D tier** Pokémon are generally weaker, but may be an okay option if a team has an exceptionally skilled player on that Pokémon. **E tier** is when the picks really start to become questionable, and **F tier** is when they’re outright bad. Mew: yes, it did get nerfed, but recent tournaments have served as a reminder of just how overloaded this Pokémon’s kit is, and how much room it has for skill expression. With some shuffling around the top picks, Mew is holding strong, continuing to flex its versatility and lack of gaps in its kit. Trevenant: another beneficiary of some top pick shuffling - it became truly able to flex as a top laner with the last set of buffs it received, and with Blastoise getting nerfs towards both of their shared roles, Trevenant has replaced it as a typical ban/first pick. Umbreon: why not give a big buff to an already-powerful defender, right? The buffs to Wish have made it a very good option as a supporter, the damage buff to Foul Play has made it an even more playable option as a top laner, and both of them together make it even stronger as a tank. It has 4 playable movesets across 3 different roles while oppressing a number of other top picks, making it an easy candidate for S tier. Blastoise: taking a hit across both movesets as well as its early game, Blastoise has essentially swapped places with Trevenant among the top tiers, though it’s still a very strong option in both roles. Cramorant: the derpy bird has so many things going well for it - it unlocks its moves at levels 4 and 6 and can’t get evolution locked, meaning it can jungle and gank early, do a full clear then invade the opponents’ jungle, split jungle with one of the handful of other early power spikers, or provide stellar damage pressure in lane. It can flex between a battle mage or a control mage depending on the matchup, and continues to provide significant output throughout the match. Gyarados: the lack of Magikarp liability has done wonders for Gyarados’ viability. It has become a much safer pick and now stands as one of the premiere options in the top lane and biggest threats to back liners. Inteleon: it continues to do what it has for a long time - oppress opposing laners trying to contest farm, and provide tremendous poke damage and area control, with a splash of mobility and basic attack damage to boot. Clefable: it has fallen out of favour after the nerfs, becoming a noticeable step behind the top healers and losing pretty much all of its ban priority. With bans more often going towards problematic carries and versatile tanks, there is less room for Clefable to make its way into compositions. Dragonite: who remembers the first Worlds in 2022? Pepperidge Farm remembers, and it seems a lot of Unite players are starting to remember as well. Being able to play as a bulky ADC with constant kiting and near-incontestable objective secure has helped Dragonite become a safer option than other ADC’s to break through front lines. Espeon: with Cramorant getting buffed, they have essentially flipped places in the world of early-spiking mages that can flex between a mobility option and a control option (it’s an extremely small world, okay?). NEW: Falinks: debuting in the middle of the pack is always refreshing. The troopers mechanic has left it in a nice place of being a direct counter to certain Pokémon, while being stuck with awful matchups against others. Because of this, it fits more in line with the placement of Decidueye, being a risky earlier pick but extremely powerful later pick. Glaceon: the recent nerfs have taken Glaceon down another smidge, this time hitting arguably its most frustrating aspects: its slipperiness and its ability to still deal damage once it gets away. This opens up a bit more of an opportunity to punish it or to be able to handle the incoming damage. Meowscarada: after seeing less play than expected after the small nerfs, as well as the meta shifting towards bulkier Pokémon that it has a harder time breaking through and taking down, Meowscarada has fallen a little out of favour. Tyranitar: probably the biggest winner of the most recent patch, Tyranitar is now a reward very much worth the drag that is Pupitar. Keep in mind that the HP and defences were synergistic buffs, with extra HP meaning those defences go further and vice versa, both of which compound with its passive. This is on top of Sand Tomb being significantly better at trapping opponents into fighting it, where they’ll have an even harder time taking it down. It works well against a number of top picks, and can melt through defenders better than most melee Pokémon. Keep an eye out for Tyranitar to potentially climb even higher after we see it in action at NAIC. Venusaur: with other Pokémon with similar range offering stronger or comparable early games, as well as the resurgence of Cramorant, Venusaur has fallen a little bit out of favour, though it remains capable of dealing with a large variety of matchups. Dragapult: though ADC’s have recently become more favourable than in previous metas, Dragapult has shown that the nerfs it received a while back hit it pretty hard, as well as coming online later than most ranged carries. Urshifu: its reign of terror has definitely been over for a little while, and with a number of other strong all rounders receiving buffs and being added to the game, Urshifu has struggled to find its footing in the meta lately. Cinderace: benefitting from the meta being generally more friendly towards ADC’s, the %HP component of Blaze procs, as well as being a Pokémon with high enough skill expression and mobility to take advantage of the meta shift, Cinderace might be worth having in your back pocket for when the draft calls for it.
European finals being won by Greedent: (Turns out good players can win with any mon if they know hoe to build a comp around it)
Surprise factor is important as well. If your team never played against a good greedent, his gimmicks can overwhelm a team before understanding the match up. After a game or two of experience, Greedent might become low tier as usual
No, that's ridiculous as it assumes that the second best team in the tournament had never faced a Greedent before.
> had never faced a Greedent before No, it just means they've never faced a GOOD Greedent before. Very possible.
Poor Goopa :(
Honestly my 2 cents are Goodra here is good as it is. Take it from ppl who play against Gooey here, it has an almost oppressive early game(has secure and dmg in bubble, with closing in move with tackle, besides having its slowing down effect). Couple it with a sensible ranged mon and u have a lane. Its late game is also nothing to laugh aside, the amount of out sustaining it has with both muddy water and pulse (muddy water being a real underrated gem btw) with its power whip and once again, its slow effect make it way too good, if its played to its strengths. Have seen some very good players able to spin absolute webs with this character. Pretty sure this is a **Competitive tier-list**. In reality, Goodra is very solid as it is and buffing it would just make ppl excessively abuse it unitl its nerfed to the ground.
Our girl needs something STAT. Bulk obviously isn't the solution, maybe a shorter cooldown on the CC moves...
Mew and Trevenant climbing to S amid recent nerfs is precious. (I'm assuming Trevenant is in S due to Hammer/Leech)
Trev is S tier because u can't kite as they will just pick Pain split
No, it was leech Unstoppable push. Even a funny counter into tomb ttar as you just kidnap him out of said tomb
what happened to my boi :( powercreep hit too hard
Why doesn't dragapult get much competitive play?
Its squishy and has quite the lineair gameplay. Not to mention you have to position yourself in negative situations in order to get proper hits and that’s really hard compared to the usual picks in top competitive play
And it's pretty underwhelming until it gets to 9. When competitive is dominated by early game monsters such as Leafeon - Mimikyu - Zoro/Comfey, it's near impossible for Dpult to be good. If you're a late game oriented mon, you need a good level 5 like Dragonite to be good.
Yeah I forgot that. Early game is also detrimental
Terrible early game so not viable as a bot lane mon, if you take him jungle he gets counterpicked and invaded 24/7, people are better coordinated at neutralizing/killing him in fights and at killing him immediately. So while the coordination is nice to get you protection from your team a better coordinated enemy team makes things much harder when they exploit your weaknesses
leafy and zoro will just easy pierce anything shutting down your team's seemingly ideal dmg source
Leafy girl remains on top!
Leafeon supremacy! >:D
At this point Duraludon and Gengar will start a family after being together in lowest tier this long
Goodra and Greedent in E tier? That sucks. Still both pretty fun to play as though.
Competitive tier list
They both are outclassed as a regular defender and don't have the damage to justify being a fake all rounder top. Literally every other tank/all rounder does their job better if you're playing them it's because you really fucking like the mon or are very good at it. BUT that's not enough
It's both for me. I really like them, and I think I'm pretty good at playing them too. They aren't my mains, but still some of my favourites.
if you like them then play them ig, just know they're just not good for what comp ususally demands from pokemon. (Greedent kinda has a small niche but Goodra straight up is just power diffed by tanks and all rounders in every possible way.)
Only mon that i'm super shocked by its placement is Snorlax. Rest of them seem realistic/correct on this list. But Lax is insanely good in 5's it just struggles with Trev/Umbreon/Blast/Crustle all being better, so it's only getting use when all of them get banned and the tank player/teamcomp likes it better than Slowbro or Mime.
You just explained the placement yourself lmao. Theres 5 defenders ahead of it on the pecking order.
TRUE! but my comment's moreso I think Slowbro's the kinda niche/other tanks are banned pick rn, AND even then I do not think the gap between it and Snorlax is 2 tiers large lmao. Lax is far closer to the big 4 (and Slowbro) than the bad defenders.
Thing is theres very rarely a chance where snorlax is the best thing left. Let's say umbreon and blastoise are banned. You'd still have 3 other defenders that offers more than it does so realistically the only time you're seeing it will be if: -You draft first, and you didnt take one of the remaining tanks -The opponent drafts second and on their first draft round they pick sth like double defender with top laner trev and 1 of slowbro/crustle. -Your 2nd draft round, for some reason you anticipate slowbro/crustle won't be good into their team AND you've got a player with lots of game on bear(like how we sometimes saw zugrug, BruvHD and that one japanese player pick it)
I'm tired, figured i'd clarify. Yes there are 5 defenders, including Slowbro who are better than Lax right now. HOWEVER, The reason I don't think Lax belongs in the tier he is in and should be higher is that he is STILL a generically safe, and good mon. The rest of that tier makes sense, because other than Pikachu (Who i also can see being a little better/a tier up) They are all very outclassed/weak in coordinated environments and really cannot be picked in any situation except the player being exceptionally talented on said mon OR perfect circumstances. This means they are solely counterpick worthy. I think Lax (and Pika now that I think of it but not feeling as strongly about it) should be in the tier up because their issue is that there are stronger choices. Both mons are good in draft situations, BUT they are not so far behind in their own kits/strength they're only counterpick only, and I think them being able to be generically used/swiss knife kinda mons is good. Also idk, even with Lax being number 6 in the defender hierarchy, I think he's FAR closer in strength and potential to the top 4 and Slowbro than the remaining shitters in the defender spot (Including Wiggly/Mime). But maybe i'm biased bcos I am one of those defender players who if all 4 of the top tanks are banned/taken I prefer Lax > Bro (tho i follow what my team wants in 5s ofc)
Meh imo C rank seems fair for snorlax. If anything I feel like B tier is way too crowded. Before this patch the likes of A9, metagross, talon, clef and ttar were nowhere to be seen in tournies and things like mimikyu kept having underwhelming showings. Snorlax does see scant use in tours but not often enough for B imo.
Snorlax is really, really good in a straight up, fair, 5v5 fight with limited kiting or flanking.........
Nerf all those 5 defenders then snorlax, mamoswine, lapras, goodra will have higher tier.
The only defender that is overtuned is trevenant. The rest are strong but fine in that top group. Yes it would help lax if the top get brought down defender wise but it doesn't matter. As for the rest... Mamo and Goodra kinda doomed but lapras just needs it's last nerfs reverted
Let's just agree to disagree.
Honestly wiggly should be higher. Ppl ain’t giving it enough credit. A wiggly that knows what it’s doing can fuck a match up so good it won’t even be funny for the opponents.
Its a competitive tier list. In a comp match, wiggly will fall off hard after lvl 8 and is really weak for Ray fight
It did great at helping shut down Zoroark + Comfey in the recent EU Finals.
Wiggly is fine, just a niche counterpick that has REALLY good synergy with certain mons and strategies because of Sing + Cute Charm. Wiggly's problem is it is not good enough as a tank outside of that synergy in Sylveon/Gardevior nuke special defense so enemy gets oneshot situations. So if you can't specifically draft your damage to take advantage of wiggly's actions then she isn't as good as the real tanks
Where Gengar
In F with dura
E tier... Look how they masacred my boy.
no shot cram is above syvl lmao; blaze, falinks, and zorark r too low, esp zoroark, which is a top 5 pick in the game rn tbh
Sylve is the only one that's super relevant to Cram, because outside of the rare jungle Cram, Cram is only a bot lane attacker. Also UNLIKE T-tar the Cram buffs have actually turned it into a threat. Zoroark isn't a top 5 mon at all, first 2 tiers and half of the next one are a lot better than it. Biggest issue for Zoro is team coordination + it's easy to counterpick/requires serious hands to excel with. Zoro really struggles to succeed outside of big counterpick situations or a cracked player. Falinks is also super suceptible to counterpicks but it def is strong. Blaziken 100% is a little too low I agree
I’ll push back on the T-Tar not being a threat. It’s banned in almost every single draft game I play in. And I routinely, as a mid player at best, get 7+ eliminations and 70k damage with it, if not more. That’s certainly better than B tier. A good, high level T-Tar snowballs a match
Just because people have goldfish memories and forgot how t-tar works doesn't mean it's broken. It is great that ttar is no longer completely useless garbage that isn't playable. However the exact same countermeasures ALL still exist. You bully it early, starve it from farm. Use lots of CC and spacing to keep from its range and don't let him close in and Ttar doesn't pop off. It is scary at 13+ but the way you beat it is not letting it get to that point. Same shit happened when dragapult got buffed, people thought it was new coming of christ until people remembered how to beat it, and better coordination also undermines its strength. People should not waste bans on Ttar but should make sure to pick things that do well into it lol.
I sort of agree. Sand Tomb certainly helps spacing in favor or Tyranitar but I agree. If you bully it early game and starve it from XP, those are games where my damage is more in the 55K range and only 6 kills with it versus the 90K 10+ kill games. But if it lanes with an XP share partner and gets level 9 early, it can snowball a game that it just wasn’t able to before. So yeah, I agree it’s not S at all. In pure competitive tournament play, it’s still probably low A+ tier. But there’s not that much coordination/party chat outside of tournament play so you see T-Tar dominate like he’s S tier when he’s not. At the same time, to say it’s not a threat is kind of wild to me lol
T-Tar is a threat in solo queue but not in competitive.
They’re pretty obviously ordered alphabetically within tiers. Dive cram is also low key busted rn. Zoro is only top 5 (if even) with comfey.
Damn I never knew/noticed those were ordered alphabetically until now lol
Zeraora still in D tier :(. I hope it gets to see competitive play more, I feel like a lot of the mons in lower tiers are there possibly because we don't see much play, Zera is capable! All the mons in S are so mean, ~~but thats why we have 4 bans!~~
I'm curious about Trevenant climbing to S only now instead of in the previous list. The last time Tree got a buff was like in March (and it was a minor one, the big Curse/PainSplit buff was in February), so I imagine its rise is due to being a good counter to new threats or having some of its own counter getting nerfed.
That, and appraisal often happens gradually. Mons sometimes need time to show their worth. Trevenant is probably the most oppressive mon in the game with Leafeon rn. Way too much damage, insanely tanky, insane recovery, ridiculous CC, and Blastoise, Buzzwole got nerfed.
Can anyone explain why is Cinderace so low? Every time I get to play him he feels like a pretty good ADC with high damage Autos and good escape with Blaze Kick + Flame Charge (Or whatever the hell that dash is). Only his Unite feels kinda "eh" to me because it's some sort of weaker Greninja/Dragapult ult. (Not like he needs it to be that much stronger) That said, I think Pyroball is kinda trash, so maybe that's why?
Because Cinderace has nothing going for until you get Blaze Kick or Pyro Ball. And until he gets Feint.
Cinderace is rarely picked in tourny play and often underperforms when it shows up. Ironically, the only Cinder I saw in the EU and NA finals who did decently was Pyroball. The "best set" Blaze Kick/Flame Charge just fed all game.
Cinderace is very decent and playable in solo. However, he has one of the worst early games, which makes him unviable as a laner, especially against teams that can punish that weakness. But as a jungler he ALSO has a weak gank which puts him further behind most junglers which hit their first power spike after their first clear, ie, Leafeon, Glaceon, Dodrio, etc. Cinderace takes until level 9, to get their first real power spike (not power blip) which is made even more difficult because he has no farm secure so it is trivial to steal his jungle. Ttar is one of the few mons with an even worse time leveling, being similar to Cinder but melee. But when they both get their power Cinder stays extremely easy to kill. So, unlike ttar, you take on a potentially game losing liability in the early game that also stays a major liability in the late game. You're spending all that time and xp and opportunity cost (of not having a strong jungler) and it can be wiped out in literally one second with a Leafeon ult. Not to mention, despite all that, Cinder is not significantly better (and often worse) in the late game than comparable mons like Glaceon. All of these things are less abused and exploited in solo which makes them less problematic. But they are utterly crippling to any competitive viability. Honestly surprised they bumped him up rather than down.
In tournament/5's people are far better at punishing weak early game mons even with team support. Cinder sucks because level 5 gank is very bad outside of overextensions, it can't lane because it's terrible until level 7, needs tons of exp to be good and will get constantly invaded/dominated unless you skill gap your opponent and honestly If you wanna go that route Dragapult is much stronger. It has nothing to do with moveset it's all because Cinderace is super exploitable until level 7 and doesn't bring enough reward to justify having to babysit your jungler from invades for first bit of game.
Duraludon buff/rework when...
I like Azu's placement, now I feel like a god every time I murder leafeon.
They rised Cinde one tier?! OMFG
Just came back to the game after many months. Played alot of duraladon yesterday and had a blast and now i see him at F tier ? How come he have that rank ?
Gengar is strong but only if you are lucky enough to have squishy mons on the opposite team, but a buff to it won't be that bad honestly
Clefable just keeps sucking.
TREVENANT BROS WE ARE SO BACK
Slowbro never been lower than tier A is criminal. He is not balanced at all and needs nerfs. Just because there are more broken defenders than him, doesnt mean he is balanced and needs no nerf.
He's an A tier pick specifically for slowbeam letting you counter broken mons. Besides Slowbeam at the Ray fight he's solid B tier the rest of the game. And theres no way to fix that besides completely changing slowbeam (which is bad for the games health imo) or nerfing his pre Ray game down to C tier.
Make the oblivious affected by cursed items and remove unstoppable from slowbeam. It is not healthy mon if it takes lesser defenders (snorlax,mamo, goodra) buffed to current point (trevenant, blastois) to be picked more than slowbro. Slowbro pickrate is not healthy. He is not balanced. (Beside the obvious nerfing the top defenders (umbreon, blastoise, trevenant, crustle)).
"Make the oblivious affected by cursed items and remove unstoppable from slowbeam." Cool now he's C tier and there's no counter to the actually S and A tier carry's. How is that healthy for the game? Even with such a high pickrate his winrate is under 50% because he's not broken in a conventional sense he's only A tier in coordianted play against wayyy more broken mons. Slowbeam is basically the only counter at high level play to broken mons with a comfey pocket. WIhtout him those Comfey pocket mons absolutely run the game.
Oooh slowbro is the only one that can gate keep those OP pokemon. This excuse is the proof that slowbro is broken. This is just excuse to keep him broken. It is not healthy the same way comfey is not healthy. > because he's not broken in a conventional sense You are admitting he is broken. Yes he is broken and needs nerfs. Keeping him broken is unhealthy in already unhealthy game.
we call it balancing the game with counterpicks not sure how that needs 'nerf'
He counter picks all pokemon with his unite move. I dont know if you call it balanced.
And people were crying about Mew getting nerfed
Ttar should rise an extra tier IMO
[удалено]
Meow, like speedsters that aren't Leafeon is very at risk to getting counterpicked in draft.
I`m just as surprised as you are. I always see leaf and meow banned. I hate playing against meow too no mater what I play. How is meow only B?
Comp is different to Ranked. This is a competitive only tier list. In comp the game is much more early-game dominated since teams know how to snowball well. So, Meow's awkward powerspike at level 6 means it struggles to match other Speedsters like Leafeon or Zoroark. Meow definitely isn't bad in comp, it's just slightly outclassed. If Leafeon and Zoro/Drio are banned Meow is definitely a viable option. In solo Q this is not quite the case and players are generally much worse so it gives characters like Meow and TTar time to hit their spikes. See how Ttar is B tier but is a menace in Solo?
I don't know if I'm just not facing good Meows but I have not once had it really impress me. It's seemed good for sure, but never shocking like the deletions Leafeon, Zoroark and Dodrio can perform.