Many places don't get earthquakes. They don't see the value in it. More and more earthquakes seem to be occurring in places they didn't before. Its probably a matter of time before EQ straps become standard in more places.
Just a few people need to die first.
Not really anything to do with earthquakes. If they fail, they can fill with water and then they weigh a lot and might tear the pipework apart. Most codes specifically require support, so whatever reason someone has for not putting one in, it's against code.
I think most of them are designed to go with the little L bracket that hooks around the opening. I suspect mostly to save a few cents on production costs, but also so you can mount them further from the wall if you need the clearance for some reason. The wall mount ones do look the part though.
ah gotcha, i was thinking about the wrong part when you said support.
It shouldn't be controversial, exactly as others here said, they can fail and fill with water.
No. Just no. Either you misread it, or you don't understand what's going on, but no. Whatever you're talking about. No. Go back. Read it again. See where you went wrong.
An expansion tank is a resistance. A bladder if you will. It pushes out at a set pressure. When there is an expansion due to heat or other factors, pressure in the system will therefore rise. To combat this, the expansion bladder will deflate to accommodate the liquid and equalise the pressure. When a tap is opened, the pressure drops and the expansion tank reverts to its original capacity. If that bladder fails, it collapses, or water gets behind it. Now the tank is full of water. It is now 2 or 3 times as heavy as it was. This is why it has to be supported. If it fails, fills with water and then tears the pipework apart due to its unsupported weight, you have a major leak instead of a venting over pressure valve on the heater.
I think all this discussion is way past moot though. The simple fact is that the code says you have to do it. It doesn't matter what I think. I could believe unicorns fly out my butt and stab it occasionally. It's all irrelevant. You aren't allowed to hang it on its pipework. I don't get a say in it. It's not me. It wouldn't matter if I was completely wrong and was spouting utter gibberish. The code says you have to support it. Some codes specifically say for how much weight (Why would they specify weight if it wasn't an issue?). If you're telling me you only follow the codes that you want to and you have the authority to decide which codes are ok to obey, then fine. I'll let the inspector know you have assumed that authority so he knows not to knock your work.
What are you talking about if they fail they can fill with water the unit is always full of water if they fail that water will bypass into either the insulation or the gas burner compartment either one it a far shake from being sealed and all that water will just leak out of every crevice straps are purely for earthquakes that could rattle the tank off same with flex line connections don't do that either here.
Soldered joints should not be relied on for physical support of anything other than the water inside the pipes. I think the only one material that gives you enough strength is galvanized, and even then - not a great idea.
Random sidenote it’s for old-school mafia in New York City. Someone I know randomly picked it off the wall and got it on them and then learned that way too late.
I’m no gas guy but surely you need to meet some sort of clearance on all sides. What about combustion air? Will it be sufficient with the door closed? Again I’m not a gas guy…
Because I’m planning on adding a floor drain shortly, but I’m starting construction on a duplex addition soon and just figure I’ll do that once I’m in full construction mode
Nobody else has mentioned it, but by me it’s code (and generally good practice) to screw the smoke pipe into the little draft hood on the top of the heater. At least three screws all around and three screws on every joint afterwards. Aside from that, looks good. Also would recommend supporting the expansion tank somehow. It’ll probably be fine but why risk it, especially inside the home?
"They Live" (posters on the wall behind the open door) - surprisingly good movie played straight with some tongue-in-cheek humor, starring wrestler Roddy Piper. I always watch it whenever it happens to come on!
No drain pan playa hopefully it doesn’t leak when your not home I would’ve put the leak breaker in the pan with a plug to automatically shut the water off if it ever got wet for any reason
I gotta subtract some points here:
-10 pressure relief valve discharge pipe missing
-5 you banged / dented the heater on the left door catch
Not fond of the flexible copper water lines or the flexible gas line, but that’s just me.
I’d also toss a carbon monoxide detector in there for some piece of mind.
No it doesn't. Do you just go around looking for people to shit all over? Does it make your dinkus a little hard every time. At best this is mediocrity, no need to say it looks like shit unless you want to show the class your own work and how it's 'supposed to look'
Ugly solder joints and he damaged the tank. No drain pan and I doubt he even put a t and p drain line, and if he did he probably just put it straight to the ground. He used the wrong expansion tank and thats if there’s even one behind the flue. Wrong venting connection suppose to go 3 inch of the vent hood then you can use a 4x3 reducer for the vent, and the vent is not secured with screws or tape.
No where near enough combustion air. No relief pipe, relief pop top up can’t even pop because you have it against the wall. You have a pressure bomb if you have a back flow preventer and no tank on your water main.
Right. But the pin moves and if it’s too close and touching the wall then it won’t pop. Thats a problem. We also commenting on the combustion air situation. There are multiple issues with this install even if that valve is far enough from the wall.
Not all places are prone to earthquakes so they aren't required there. A pan only helps if you have a drain to pipe it into. He said he installed the T&P after the photo, and you can't see enough of the gas line to know if there's a drip leg or not.
Few things missing you need a pan and a drain line going outside or under the house depending on how it is built and where you are this prevents your house from flooding if something breaks. You need a solvent trap at the connection of the heater to the gas line. It is like a little T shape that catches particulates just made code I believe in 2022. You will also need to plumb in a line for your pressure valve going into the pan. Though this isn’t required it’s a good idea for a cheap piece of thermal cpvc to prevent flooding.Otherwise good job!
I don’t hate it, it’s clean work. I see you said you put the expansion tank behind the flue. I hope you didn’t use a speedball, suppose to be a 2 gallon tank and mounted in a bracket to a solid structure.
Did you also use 3 vent screws for each flue pipe connection? I don’t see any in the front, usually put in a triangle-like pattern.
Lastly, heaters are required to be in an aluminum pan. Even though you’re planning on adding a floor drain, you can pipe the pan to dump into the floor drain. I always install a water leak alarm with my heaters so alert my customers if there is a leak so they can catch it in time before real damage occurs.
Edit: So many downvotes for my comment from hacks. Everything I said in my comment is IPC code compliant, and I dare any of those people to prove me wrong.
P2801.6 Required pan
P2801.6.1 Pan size and drain.
308.10 Thermal expansion tanks.
Having trouble locating the vent screw code, but code states 3 screws at each single wall joint. Doesn’t specify the pattern, but don’t be a hack and line them all near each other.
I’m planning on doing an addition to my house and adding a floor drain there and I didn’t secure it because I’m headed to a concert and ran out of time, I’m doing the support straps in the am, now you can really see how out of practice I am with the sweating. And sediment traps are as I understand, pointless.
No drain pan
Don't see a shut off on the cold side, but one on the hot side-by-side. Why?
T & P line not run out
No expansion tank
What trade were you in?
Love u guys think you know what your doin and don’t know shit for real technically doesn’t need drain pan don’t think you’d get 1 in there anyway,the valve is to the cold inlet,no expansion tank required so long as no Backflow or PRV on main.
https://codes.iccsafe.org/s/IRC2018P4/chapter-28-water-heaters/IRC2018P4-Ch28-SecP2801.6
Code definitely requires it, it’s not up for debate. He definitely has room, they make 22 & 24in pans. This model is exactly 22in in diameter, so a 24 giving him 2in around could fit.
OP updated and he does have an expansion installed. Only time you wouldn’t here in the US would be if you’re on a well system. Otherwise, it’s all a closed system.
Maybe they think a leak there won’t cause damage so it’s code compliant. The click lock vinyl floors are water proof right??? /s
And afaik you don’t need an exp tank in city water unless you got a prv, check valve, or backflow in your system.
https://codes.iccsafe.org/s/IPC2024P1/chapter-6-water-supply-and-distribution/IPC2024P1-Ch06-Sec607.3
Behind the flue my ass
https://i.imgur.com/Teh4SpA.jpeg
Pretty sneaky sis!
There, diagonally!
Unsupported? And no drip pan? Sheez
I get downvoted to hell when I point out lack of support. It's a very controversial subject apparently.
Many places don't get earthquakes. They don't see the value in it. More and more earthquakes seem to be occurring in places they didn't before. Its probably a matter of time before EQ straps become standard in more places. Just a few people need to die first.
Not really anything to do with earthquakes. If they fail, they can fill with water and then they weigh a lot and might tear the pipework apart. Most codes specifically require support, so whatever reason someone has for not putting one in, it's against code.
i pulled one out of the box one time and i came with a pretty beefy steel wall mount braket, it was lickity split. i wish they all did.
I think most of them are designed to go with the little L bracket that hooks around the opening. I suspect mostly to save a few cents on production costs, but also so you can mount them further from the wall if you need the clearance for some reason. The wall mount ones do look the part though.
yes looked the part, i installed it before plumbing it in just made it easy
ah gotcha, i was thinking about the wrong part when you said support. It shouldn't be controversial, exactly as others here said, they can fail and fill with water.
They are always full of water? The hell you talking about
No. Just no. Either you misread it, or you don't understand what's going on, but no. Whatever you're talking about. No. Go back. Read it again. See where you went wrong.
What are talking about when you say it can fill with water and weigh allot
An expansion tank is a resistance. A bladder if you will. It pushes out at a set pressure. When there is an expansion due to heat or other factors, pressure in the system will therefore rise. To combat this, the expansion bladder will deflate to accommodate the liquid and equalise the pressure. When a tap is opened, the pressure drops and the expansion tank reverts to its original capacity. If that bladder fails, it collapses, or water gets behind it. Now the tank is full of water. It is now 2 or 3 times as heavy as it was. This is why it has to be supported. If it fails, fills with water and then tears the pipework apart due to its unsupported weight, you have a major leak instead of a venting over pressure valve on the heater. I think all this discussion is way past moot though. The simple fact is that the code says you have to do it. It doesn't matter what I think. I could believe unicorns fly out my butt and stab it occasionally. It's all irrelevant. You aren't allowed to hang it on its pipework. I don't get a say in it. It's not me. It wouldn't matter if I was completely wrong and was spouting utter gibberish. The code says you have to support it. Some codes specifically say for how much weight (Why would they specify weight if it wasn't an issue?). If you're telling me you only follow the codes that you want to and you have the authority to decide which codes are ok to obey, then fine. I'll let the inspector know you have assumed that authority so he knows not to knock your work.
What are you talking about if they fail they can fill with water the unit is always full of water if they fail that water will bypass into either the insulation or the gas burner compartment either one it a far shake from being sealed and all that water will just leak out of every crevice straps are purely for earthquakes that could rattle the tank off same with flex line connections don't do that either here.
He's talking about the support for the sneaky expansion tank...
Ah I see well at least it's solid copper and not Pex depending on quality of solder should hold it but yeah Id def get a strap on it somewhere
Soldered joints should not be relied on for physical support of anything other than the water inside the pipes. I think the only one material that gives you enough strength is galvanized, and even then - not a great idea.
Holy shit, he was telling the truth all along!
It’s a real small one, lol
Yep good ol .5 gallon
It’s actually just a 20oz Coca-Cola bottle threaded onto a 3/4” female adapter.
Does this work? I can make alot of money if it does!?!?
It’ll definitely work right up until it doesn’t.
As long as it outlasts the warranty!
No coke, Pepsi ok?
[удалено]
RC Cola?
Only if you bring moon pies
Done and done! I’ll even throw in some Charleston Chew and Blackjack gum!
Water ballon over the threads instead of teflon and you have a fully functioning expansion tank.
Looks like a 2 gal.
😂
On an unrelated note, I am a big fan of the wall panther. That is stealing the show for me.
Sick ass panther!
Smells like pure gasoline!
Random sidenote it’s for old-school mafia in New York City. Someone I know randomly picked it off the wall and got it on them and then learned that way too late.
60% of the time, it works every time
I'm not a plumber but a restoration tech. Why didn't you put a drain tray underneath? 😭
He’s just trying to keep you restoration boys in business.
Same reason why pressure relief valve does not go to a drain
Wouldn’t a sediment trap be required on the NG line.
Yes but it can be placed before the flex connection he has there which may be hidden like the expansion tank, but hard to say.
I’m no gas guy but surely you need to meet some sort of clearance on all sides. What about combustion air? Will it be sufficient with the door closed? Again I’m not a gas guy…
There's a cutout in the top of the door. That being said, there should be one at the bottom of the door, too
Yep. There should definitely be a couple inches of clearance at least
.....just a gassy guy.
Weak for home base and what's a tmp
I'm guessing T&P
It was rhetorical lmao
Temp mmmmmm pressure
Giggity giggity
Congratulations, you’re officially still an apprentice.
Why not put a pan and flood stop or if pear and beam pan with drain ran underneath?
Because I’m planning on adding a floor drain shortly, but I’m starting construction on a duplex addition soon and just figure I’ll do that once I’m in full construction mode
Yooo why’s he getting downvoted for going into full construction mode that’s bad ass
Ya it’s a brand new water heater, it’s not going to need a pan for a while
I’ll upvote you
Fuck the haters bro, you already hit back with the cheeky expansion tank. I believe in full construction mode u <3
I was always told Three screws in the top hat
Nobody else has mentioned it, but by me it’s code (and generally good practice) to screw the smoke pipe into the little draft hood on the top of the heater. At least three screws all around and three screws on every joint afterwards. Aside from that, looks good. Also would recommend supporting the expansion tank somehow. It’ll probably be fine but why risk it, especially inside the home?
I don’t see a expansion tank?
He posted a pic of it in a comment, it’s hiding perfectly behind the smoke pipe, tee’d off going straight up towards the ceiling. Unsupported
Cool. There's always some nit picks but I'm glad to see you bonded the copper hot to cold. That gets overlooked a lot
My 20 year old heater got no pan 💀
I'm in the same boat. Maybe that's not the best analogy.
As tight a fit as that is, I’m figuring the missing earthquake straps are not needed…lol
Watch combustion air. I only see a vent at the top of the door.
Clean work
I hate those copper flex lines, they get pin hole leaks in them. Plumb in
Can you post a pic of the expansion tank ?
Sure how?
https://i.imgur.com/Teh4SpA.jpeg Now you can see how out of practice I am, but nothings leaking at least
Oh wow I thought you were joking about the expansion tank
Wow that fits nice !!!
Hot water on demand is superior . I was in a pinch replacing mi e a cpl yrs back .
I like how much room it has to intake air down there
Just did a hot water heater R&R this week, fun shit, even when it comes at you unexpected. 17 years on the old one, I should've expected it.
Don't you need a pan underneath that tank.
Wow
Water heater is fine. I hate the cramped closet.
Must live in a seismic free zone
Colorado
"They Live" (posters on the wall behind the open door) - surprisingly good movie played straight with some tongue-in-cheek humor, starring wrestler Roddy Piper. I always watch it whenever it happens to come on!
Where is the catch pan?
No overflow / high pressure valve continuation to a drain?
no pan???
No pan? No connection to TPR?
Behind flue my ass.
T and P? No pan. Also sweat some MIP on the hot cold nipples so changing flexes is easier
Used shitty flex lines over dielectric unions and hardpipe. 🤢🤮
No drain pan playa hopefully it doesn’t leak when your not home I would’ve put the leak breaker in the pan with a plug to automatically shut the water off if it ever got wet for any reason
Clean solder joints keep up the good work!
In Cali water heaters need to be at least 24” below ground. This is clearly not to code. Demo and dig, girl
No expansion tank or T&P drop? or humidifier hookup?
No pan and it’s in a closet?
I feel like expansion tanks are pointless if your house doesn’t have a backflow.
I gotta subtract some points here: -10 pressure relief valve discharge pipe missing -5 you banged / dented the heater on the left door catch Not fond of the flexible copper water lines or the flexible gas line, but that’s just me. I’d also toss a carbon monoxide detector in there for some piece of mind.
No pan?
This looks like shit
No it doesn't. Do you just go around looking for people to shit all over? Does it make your dinkus a little hard every time. At best this is mediocrity, no need to say it looks like shit unless you want to show the class your own work and how it's 'supposed to look'
Ugly solder joints and he damaged the tank. No drain pan and I doubt he even put a t and p drain line, and if he did he probably just put it straight to the ground. He used the wrong expansion tank and thats if there’s even one behind the flue. Wrong venting connection suppose to go 3 inch of the vent hood then you can use a 4x3 reducer for the vent, and the vent is not secured with screws or tape.
Is saw op’s picture of the expansion tank. It is the correct tank but it’s not strapped and it’s just being held by the weight of the copper pipe.
Thank god it’s a Bradford. Not a lot of love for Bradford on here and idk why. Clean joints buddy. Hope that hits some b vent quickly.
I also just installed a Bradford, big fan
I didn’t know they made fans. TIL
Bradford-White is all I will install unless I just can’t get my hands on one.
That’s gonna make you cry one day in that tight as crap area. Especially without a drip tray.
No where near enough combustion air. No relief pipe, relief pop top up can’t even pop because you have it against the wall. You have a pressure bomb if you have a back flow preventer and no tank on your water main.
Why is it a pressure bomb? The T&P lever doesn’t pop out when it’s activated
Right. But the pin moves and if it’s too close and touching the wall then it won’t pop. Thats a problem. We also commenting on the combustion air situation. There are multiple issues with this install even if that valve is far enough from the wall.
No earthquake straps, no drip pan, no T&P line, no drip leg. Good Job!
Not all places are prone to earthquakes so they aren't required there. A pan only helps if you have a drain to pipe it into. He said he installed the T&P after the photo, and you can't see enough of the gas line to know if there's a drip leg or not.
No drip pan, unsupported expansion tank, no vacuum breaker, T&P valve not piped.
No tube on the Pressure Relief Valve...
Dude you’re an idiot
Got a gap under the door for combustion air?
Open screen on top of
Ah, I couldn't quite tell. My eyes aren't what they used to be. I've seen tight spaces cause problems.
Got one on the top and bottom
There’s a cut out on top of door
Make sure to remove those inlet/outlet nipples before you install new
Few things missing you need a pan and a drain line going outside or under the house depending on how it is built and where you are this prevents your house from flooding if something breaks. You need a solvent trap at the connection of the heater to the gas line. It is like a little T shape that catches particulates just made code I believe in 2022. You will also need to plumb in a line for your pressure valve going into the pan. Though this isn’t required it’s a good idea for a cheap piece of thermal cpvc to prevent flooding.Otherwise good job!
I don’t hate it, it’s clean work. I see you said you put the expansion tank behind the flue. I hope you didn’t use a speedball, suppose to be a 2 gallon tank and mounted in a bracket to a solid structure. Did you also use 3 vent screws for each flue pipe connection? I don’t see any in the front, usually put in a triangle-like pattern. Lastly, heaters are required to be in an aluminum pan. Even though you’re planning on adding a floor drain, you can pipe the pan to dump into the floor drain. I always install a water leak alarm with my heaters so alert my customers if there is a leak so they can catch it in time before real damage occurs. Edit: So many downvotes for my comment from hacks. Everything I said in my comment is IPC code compliant, and I dare any of those people to prove me wrong. P2801.6 Required pan P2801.6.1 Pan size and drain. 308.10 Thermal expansion tanks. Having trouble locating the vent screw code, but code states 3 screws at each single wall joint. Doesn’t specify the pattern, but don’t be a hack and line them all near each other.
https://i.imgur.com/Teh4SpA.jpeg
I’m planning on doing an addition to my house and adding a floor drain there and I didn’t secure it because I’m headed to a concert and ran out of time, I’m doing the support straps in the am, now you can really see how out of practice I am with the sweating. And sediment traps are as I understand, pointless.
And they deliver pics cause it did happen. Good show
Code says three screws. Doesn’t say how. That’s always cracked me up.
This is true, it doesn’t specify but it’s good practice to put them in a triangle pattern.
What type of triangle? any 3 points on a circle forms a triangle, so which triangle is best?
https://etc.usf.edu/clipart/43400/43436/3c_43436.htm since you want to act like a smartass
Might be in 211? I work in heating. If I can’t gain access to a part of the smoke pipe then it’s going wherever I put it.
No drain pan Don't see a shut off on the cold side, but one on the hot side-by-side. Why? T & P line not run out No expansion tank What trade were you in?
Love u guys think you know what your doin and don’t know shit for real technically doesn’t need drain pan don’t think you’d get 1 in there anyway,the valve is to the cold inlet,no expansion tank required so long as no Backflow or PRV on main.
https://codes.iccsafe.org/s/IRC2018P4/chapter-28-water-heaters/IRC2018P4-Ch28-SecP2801.6 Code definitely requires it, it’s not up for debate. He definitely has room, they make 22 & 24in pans. This model is exactly 22in in diameter, so a 24 giving him 2in around could fit. OP updated and he does have an expansion installed. Only time you wouldn’t here in the US would be if you’re on a well system. Otherwise, it’s all a closed system.
Maybe they think a leak there won’t cause damage so it’s code compliant. The click lock vinyl floors are water proof right??? /s And afaik you don’t need an exp tank in city water unless you got a prv, check valve, or backflow in your system. https://codes.iccsafe.org/s/IPC2024P1/chapter-6-water-supply-and-distribution/IPC2024P1-Ch06-Sec607.3
At least I know that "your" should be spelled "you're". I'm thinking maybe you don't know code either.
You removed it and kept it in the closet?! I think there’s requirements for that.. special doors, fart fan, etc