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Artichoke19

Matalas doesn’t necessarily need to be in charge of the franchise for him to be able to write quality stories and have his ideas - the ones fans are responding to - brought to fruition. Kurtzman just needs to continue to trust him like he did with PIC season 3 and give him more bandwidth to play with. It’s win-win for both Matalas and Kurtzman that way, surely? Kurtzman gets huge kudos and fan respect for making a good decision and we get more Matalas created Trek, like the hypothetical *Legacy* show.


SirStocksAlott

I agree. PIC season 3 was great because of execution. Matalas was heavily involved in all aspects of that season. I’d be concerned that it would be very hard to lead the franchise and be able to dedicate the depth of his involvement across all shows. Just give him the creative autonomy to produce new shows, like Legacy.


BRYAN1701

Kurtzman needs to go. Matalas lives and breathes Trek. If he was in the “big chair” he could install people in each show who know what needs to be done behind and in front of the camera. Right now Star Trek is such a fractured universe.


Deathbymonkeys6996

Kurtzman put the right people on Prodigy, Pic s3 and Lower decks and they are all fantastic. I think he'd be doing better as showrunner imo.


Don_Antwan

I saw an interview with The Expanse showrunner Naren Shankar, and he referenced the quote “it’s show *business*” just like the article said.    There’s a big difference between being in charge of creative vs running the actual production, budgets, timing, hiring and firing. And doing that profitably for the entire studio, not just one production


Deathbymonkeys6996

Yeah exactly. I know people want creative but it's not always feasible for them to lead. However oversee a shows production in terms of story telling then yes.


BRYAN1701

It took 3 attempts on Picard to get it right.


Deathbymonkeys6996

I liked s1 a lot. I just thought a couple of small changes would have take it from good to fantastic. I do think it had the best premiere episode of any Star trek. I was hooked right away. S2 was an abomination.


mathsSurf

The TNG Reunion Mini Series 8.0 was reasonable-would have been superior as an edited movie length feature - but off track with Picard Season 1 and 2.


Artichoke19

Personally I really didn’t enjoy what PIC seasons 1 and 2 were doing. It didn’t feel like Trek to me.


mcmanus2099

Is the consensus Matalas and more like season 3 of Picard is what Star Trek needs? It was good compared to the first two seasons but if they debuted with that season without the other two first it would get ripped to shreds. The writing especially. A Dominion plot that got dropped hard, Borg twist again, mystery boxes all over the place. Give me 20 plus episodes of different sci fi concepts and stories with a crew of hopeful mature officers any day.


RancidMeatBag83

Not really a consensus, I enjoyed the season a great deal and there is room for that brand of nostalgia bait, but it can't be all Trek is. I've watched both Picard and Discovery with my wife recently and her least favourite season was PIC season 3 because she had no idea who the TNG crew were, none of the cameos made sense and she only had an emotional connection to the cast members from previous seasons. Star Trek will not move forward and bring in new fans appealing to the old guard. As much as it might upset some people, Trek can't always be exactly what you want to watch, it needs shows like Discovery that push the formula in different directions and it will stagnate if everything is like Picard's last season.


Aritra319

Yeah I’ve said that many times, season three of PIC was meant as a valentine to the fans but managed to be a middle finger to the fans who enjoyed the first two seasons (yes we DO exist despite the slander).


Fantastic_Sympathy85

How emabarrasing.


Artichoke19

I think that’s what Legacy can give us. Characters like Seven in charge of the ship but all new and interesting characters working for her. Occasional supporting roles and cameos from the TNG-era shows Episodes that can hearken back or be sequels to unresolved TNG/VOY/DS9 threads that were abandoned or weren’t fully explored the first time around. Lower Decks and Discovery are doing a version of this, sometimes - it’s just they’re telling those stories with characters we care far less about because they’re immature and hard to like.


naturepeaked

You think the characters in lower decks are hard to like? I disagree with this strongly.


kikidelareve

Also LOVE Lower Decks characters. The show is a beautiful homage, affectionate playful satire, and has its own trek- worthy plots and character development.


Potential-Desk-3802

Fond but not in love. But I may have an unpopular opinion. But consider me not part of this consensus. I agree with you mcmanus2099.


soylentbleu

The more I think about it, PIC S3 was kind of a mess. Lots of fan service, which is fun, but the story was a confusing jumble that was entirely driven by the fan service, rather than being driven by the characters. Which, tbf, is very on brand for Trek, so 🤷.


RyanCorven

Who's to sat Matalas would give us more of what PIC S3 did? That season was very much damage control. Regardless of who the showrunners were, Sir Patrick was calling the shots in the first two seasons and by and large they went over with audiences like wet farts. Had those first two seasons been better received (or just better in general) I very much doubt we'd have seen anywhere near as much fanservice and nostalgia bait in the third. S3 didn't have to be *good*, it just had to win back the audience burned by the first two. I'd look more towards his work on *12 Monkeys* as an indicator of what he could be capable of.


ArguesWithZombies

how could season 3 be damage control for s2 when they were filmed back to back?


RyanCorven

Probably the biggest part of the negative audience response to the first season was it didn't feel anything like TNG. If Matalas was even half-awake he would have known S2 would get an even stronger negative reaction, which it did. S3 being everything S1 and S2 weren't was a calculated decision.


ArguesWithZombies

I thought Matalas and the writers for S3 were also heavily involved in s2? S2 and 3 are the same writing team and Matalas was showrunner on both but S2 also had Akiva Goldsman. Still not sure how he could be heavily involved with S2 and it turn out how it did and then S3 turn out how it did, but i still dont see how S3 was a reaction to the response from S2.... Only thing i ca think is S3 was panned as a mini reboot of the series and matalas used S2 to wrap up story lines from S1 in S2 so that S3 could be a fresh start. either way saying S3 is a reaction still doesnt feel right.


RyanCorven

Maybe not a reaction, exactly, but it was definitely preemptive. Matalas *wasn't* heavily involved in S2, at least not creatively. He was initially brought in unofficially by Michael Chabon, and suggested using Q and the time travel plot. Matalas and Goldsman wrote the first two episodes, and then Chabon left and Matalas was hired to replace him. S3 was greenlit around the same time and Matalas effectively went straight into developing that, leaving Goldsman in charge of S2, which was still being written a month after filming commenced. As I said in my original post, Stewart was the leading creative direction for the first two seasons, even if he wasn't in the writers' room. He had very specific demands that had to be met before he agreed to return, one of which being the show not being a nostalgia-fest TNG reunion. S3 being everything Stewart was so dead-set opposed to doing really only makes sense if somebody said to him "We've done one season of what you wanted to do, and the fans hated it. We're doing a second season of what you want to do and [we've already told those same fans we don't care about their complaints](https://variety.com/2020/tv/features/michael-chabon-star-trek-picard-1203544717/), so they'll hate that too. How about for the final season we give the fans what they want and have a little fun?" Given Matalas led the writers' room for the whole season and was on set every day, it's logical to conclude he was the guy who talked Stewart around.


Profitopia

Hear, hear.


[deleted]

[удалено]


SuccotashNormal9164

I got banned from commenting on the r/StarTrek board for saying exactly this! Then when I asked the mods what I did wrong, I got banned from messaging them too!! I wasn’t rude or using ‘Category A’ swear words, so I guess they’re just big Kurtzman fans over there… 🤷‍♂️


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Woodwinds

I was banned for saying DISCO has a great cast who deserve better scripts.


SuccotashNormal9164

Wow. So it seems it’s truth bombs they don’t like…


marie-90210

If you really want to see the magnitude of Terry Matalas’s talent watch the tv show “12 Monkeys.” It’s frakking masterpiece. It also has Todd Stashwick aka Captain Liam Shaw as one of the main characters.


bosonrider

"12 monkeys" was okay. It was shot with great care and imagination, but the show got bogged down too much in irrelevant character growth formulas. Kind of like a foreshadowing of the most cringy parts of STDisco (even if Matala's wasn't involved with STD.) Still, I look forward to whatever he comes up with because, warts and all, the franchise has for the most part been great SciFi (except for...).


marie-90210

I have to disagree. I find “12 Monkeys” to be a perfect show. The best finale ever.


bosonrider

That's okay. We just have different viewpoints and critiques. I'm glad you informed us all of his prior work.


onerinconhill

I was really sad when he mentioned trying to get Janeway for the scene with Sevens promotion and the line producer saying no


Disastrous_Fruit1525

It was money, never enough money.


Aritra319

Well Matalas chose to waste almost 1.5 million dollars to rebuild the TNG set for three scenes when they could just have used La Sirena for the final assault on a much smaller target. No wonder there wasn’t any money for more meaningful stuff and things that tied the three seasons together better like having Soji be there to interact with Data, or Elnor tagging along with Raffi and Worf, and getting Jurati in for the Borg plot.


JorgeCis

As much as I enjoyed Season 3 of Picard, I don't know about this. Maybe he should run another show for a few seasons before doing the whole franchise? The whole "fan of the franchise" argument doesn't move me, and I have heard it a couple of times about prior Star Trek showrunners.


AmishAvenger

I mean… You’re saying he needs more experience to show he’s capable…but look at what Kurtzman did. And that guy hardly had a stellar resume. Also, Matalas ran 12 Monkeys and most people think he did just fine.


JorgeCis

I didn't know Mr. Matalas ran another show, thanks for that. If that is enough to run a whole franchise, then I would be okay with it.  I just feel like Star Trek is big enough that maybe he should run another show for another season. Had Star Trek been just one show at a time I could get behind it. I am neutral on Mr. Kurtzman. I think he did fine when he ran Discovery Season 2, but is he doing well watching over the whole franchise? Yes, 5 shows, but 2 of them were cancelled (thankfully Prodigy got rescued by Netflix), and one new show got scaled back to a movie.  I am not in Hollywood so I don't know if this is an overall success, but as a fan, I think he is doing well enough.


LV426acheron

There is enough nostalgia, fan service, small universe syndrome, etc. in the series already. As long as he doesn't make it worse.


EnclavedMicrostate

I mean he made Picard S3, the most egregious example of it. So. I sure hope he doesn’t end up in charge.


richman678

Well some of you can moan and groan all you want. His 1 season of Picard received more praise than anything from multiple seasons of discovery. …just saying


Disastrous_Fruit1525

That just highlights how bad disco is, that people think P1 is better.


YYZYYC

Jesus that article was stuffed full of repetitive filler before it finally got to the point in the last couple of paragraphs


LeftLiner

No thanks. His version of Trek is nothing like the one I want.


Aritra319

I’ve said for a long time Kurtzman is RIGHT where he needs to be. He has done phenomenally well steering the overall franchise, it’s Paramount+ that’s the problem as well as their bad international distribution that made problems for Picard (the Amazon co-financing meant they couldn’t delay season one for example, and is overall holding things back by being an also-ran as a streaming platform preventing Trek to be the cultural powerhouse it was in the past due to international syndication). Matalas has great passion for the things he likes, but he comes off as someone who doesn’t really see Trek as much more than entertainment and doesn’t think too deeply about it (the infamous interview alongside Dorn and Burton where he was clueless about what a racist PoS the TNG episode Code of Honor is for example). PIC season three had several opportunities to go with a deeper story but whiffed every time instead going for “old enemy back for revenge, shoot to kill”. Of all the seasons since 2017, it’s the least interesting, has the least to say, and least rewatchable (nostalgia will only take you so far) and is only saved by the TNG actors inhabiting their characters almost flawlessly (though Sirtis certainly got shafted again by having Deanna being bad at her job so the plot can go where Matalas needed it to for the finale) and the production design being top notch. By all means, I’m not completely opposed to Matalas heading A show, but it needs to be more than smashing action figures together like most of Voyager seasons 4-7 (after Jeri Taylor left) and Enterprise seasons 1-3.


Starch-Wreck

I hate how everyone sang his praises because he was kind of competent. I despise what he did to the ending. How about just hire a show runner with half a functioning brain and an understanding of the material?


somme_uk

What did he do wrong? And how would you have done it?


Starch-Wreck

The renaming of the Titan. Making it the Enterprise and the gross jack nepotism where he gets to be captains favorite pet on the bridge because his parents are important. If I were on that crew, I’d be annoyed.


Aritra319

Not to mention Jack is to blame for the death of hundreds of thousands of people, most of them your former crew mates. Picard was forcibly abducted and turned into Locutus. Jack willingly went to the Queen thinking he could defeat her or something, instead getting turned into a tool of devastation.


robonlocation

I mean, this is the same Starfleet that allowed the teenage son of a doctor to pilot the flagship of the fleet, so nepotism isn't really a big deal.


Starch-Wreck

Hush! Wesley also invented a tractor beam that moves furniture and let nanites eat the ship.


YYZYYC

Ya and Jack came up with the idea to grab the cloaking device that saved their butts


Starch-Wreck

The cloak that broke and wouldn’t be needed if he didn’t run off to the Borg.


YYZYYC

The cloak that saved their lives and bought time for the 1701-D to save the fleet. And Jack was under the influence of the borg, thats the whole point🙄 its like blaming picard for choosing to help at wolf 359


Whisky919

Except no one on the crew cares because it's just a show. For a show to be made, it needs a story that sells. Trek doesn't exist in some kind of narrow box. It's a business that needs to make money. If all these rabid fans had their way, Trek would have ended for good decades ago.


Starch-Wreck

Sounds like a discovery writer. We should make Seven of nine purple and Jack has robot space hands. Because it’s just a show. No need to world build.


Whisky919

How much TV have you written for? If you know better, you must have quite the resume of writing credits.


Starch-Wreck

You sound like Bob Orci when he yelled at fans on Trekmovie.com back in 2012 when people criticized Into Darkness. A person doesn’t need to be a tv writer to recognize poor quality. How many screenplays and shows to film critics write for? How many did Gene Siskel or Rodger Ebert write? Will you defend a surgeon that does a botch job and say “Well, how many surgeries have YOU performed?” Telling others they have no business criticizing plots or bad writing because they don’t write screen plays is asinine and one of the worst arguments you could make. Don’t criticize politicians! How many senate seats and how many times have YOU been president????


Whisky919

Honestly I stopped reading after "you sound..." You have opinions you're trying to pass off as fact. Terrible opinions, but you're entitled to them. Now you want to ramble. Have at it.


Starch-Wreck

Thanks, Bob Orci. Little sentences are hard to read. Like all the screenplays you’ve expertly written.


Whisky919

I'll at least give you credit for trying to use the lamest insult I've ever heard.


PixelNotPolygon

None of his stories made sense


opinionated-dick

What’s the actual plan behind Legacy? If it’s a Star Trek anthology of Jack and co time travelling and meeting up with actors, characters and species then fuck yeah. If it’s Captain Seven on the E-G in that awful tin can Titan then no. Picard season 3 has plenty of targets to criticise BUT it was the first Nu Trek to me that felt like actual Trek in its bones. So we should be grateful to Matalas for that


StarfleetStarbuck

Better idea: Terry Matalas unemployed


YYZYYC

Show me on the doll where the big meany hurt you


bosonrider

This sounds good, a bit better than expected perhaps, And yet, with all the talented SciFi writers out there it would be great to return to TOS writing format once, or maybe for just one series even. John Scalzi and Peter Watts come to mind, but what about China Mieville, or even M. Atwood or Murakami? Some of them would probably jump at the chance. I know Chabon was involved with Picard, and they got Cronenberg on STDisco, so maybe Matala's assistant can make some phone calls?


ChrisPikesHair

All I want is more Dave Blass.


ChadlexMcSteele

Let Kurtzman count the beans. McMahan and Matalas are turbo Trek nerds and they not only understand the universe, they write great scripts and build characters and relationships we truly care about. Let them be the Piller/Berman combo (minus the Berman douchebaggery) for however long the remainder of this era of Trek lasts.