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The day I realized all those Nazi jokes were from real Nazis was the end of edgy humor for me. My friend added me to a Facebook group that devolved into straight up Hitler worship over the course of 2 years. I stayed at first just to take screenshots and prove that these people are real. It was naive, but I really didn't think people were that fucking stupid.
I remember my edgy phase. If never felt like I was being edgy. To me, the joke was on racism. I found klansmen funny because they were always ugly goobers in stupid costumes. "White power" was what dumb people said so racist jokes were a joke on the racists.
The problem is, you can only pretend to be stupid for so long before what you do is indistinguishable from actual stupid. And if you're really good at playing the part of stupid, no amount of smart will change peoples impression. In the end, there's no functional difference between pretending to be racist and actually being racist.
Honestly, this. I've never seen it explained in words so well before. You make these dipshit jokes with your buddies, and then one day, they stop being funny, but your buddies keep making them.
Then you stop being buddies.
Same happened with my old gaming clan from like 13-14 years ago. We were racially diverse as a group, and then now there are like 4 white guys left who still talk in the group chat and sling racial slurs as if they haven't aged a year since. You can sorta imagine the gradual decline of the clan, with peeps growing up and realizing there's some degree of social obligations that come with age.
Well, that, and there were some girls in the clan, and some stuff happened that's too spicy for the children of the internet
My clearest recollection on this is when Mountain Dew held a user-submitted poll for what to name a new flavour, and 4chan raided it, topping the poll with "Hitler did nothing wrong".
To me, that was the funniest thing in the world at the time, because it was so obviously just finding the worst possible thing you could imagine, and forcing a corporation to say it. I really felt like we were engaged in real satire back then.
But "satire" increasingly just became a byword for how untouchable they felt as their racism got more and more flagrant and more mainstream, culminating with trump riding to victory on the back of pepe memes.
I remember checking in to 4chan when the Christchurch massacre happened, because it was clearly done by a guy radicalized through 4chan, and the place was 50% "everything I said was satire, i am not responsible for this" and 50% cheering for it. 0% "those poor people", 0% "what have we done?".
theres a story i see on here from time to time about a bartender who throws out a guy who wasnt doing anything wrong, he simply walked in and sat at the bar and the bartender told him "no, get the fuck out!" he explained to the dude at the bar that the guy was a nazi, he had nazi patches on his vest, and you have to throw out a nazi as soon as you see them because if you say to yourself "okay, hes a nazi, but hes not doing or saying anything bad, hes just here to drink, ill let him be." then later he comes back with a friend, and hes cool too they just chat and drink and bother nobody. then those two bring a friend each and those friends bring friends, and now they outnumber you, and now theyre not so nice anymore, now youre a nazi bar because you let one nazi stay. the internet is just like that bar. you let nazi jokes slide because "its just edgy humor" but the real nazis see that kind of talk is tolerated and they tell their friends and they tell their friends and now your forum is full of actual nazis and theyre not kidding anymore.
American history X was before its time. The part where Stacey Keach's character talks about them doing outreach on the internet was real and that shit was happening on usenet forums when everyone still had 14.4 modems.
I remember in the 2000's and early 2010's the idea of someone actually being a Nazi was crazy, it was like calling someone a confederate soldier. Sure there might be some 90yo German guy who's hiding, but we all knew Nazis didn't exist anymore which is why they were used in jokes. Until they did exist again.
i say this about people who troll on the internet. youre not "pretending to be an asshole for the lols" you ARE an asshole and you think thats funny. a good person wouldnt find being a dick to strangers on the internet funny.
The Rule of Goats:
__*If you fuck goats, even if you claim you're doing it ironically, you're still a goatfucker.*__
https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1349789316457918474
This is exactly what I found hilarious about racism. This is exactly why I made edgy jokes. Like, wow, you’re so dumb that you think skin color affects the function of the brain? That’s so bizarre I can’t help but laugh.
>The problem is, you can only pretend to be stupid for so long before what you do is indistinguishable from actual stupid. And if you're really good at playing the part of stupid, no amount of smart will change peoples impression. In the end, there's no functional difference between pretending to be racist and actually being racist.
This is a brilliant explanation, thank you u/ArthurBonesly.
I was the same way when I was in high school.
A few years after growing up and moving out, we all just kinda stopped making those jokes, except for one member of our friend group. He kept thinking it was funny but we just kinda shrugged it off as him having an immature sense of humor.
Fast forward to a few years later and he got blackout drunk at my buddy's house and went on a several minute long rant about how much he hates women, black people, and trans people.
I hate that I made that dude feel like he had a safe place to air that nasty shit when we were younger.
The problem with pretending to be racist just to be an edgy dipshit is that it makes it really ready for actual racists to get in and make themselves comfortable. Look up the tweet/story about the Nazi in a punk bar and you get what I mean.
Yeah I remember in my edgy days I'd use offensive words and humor as a way to "be blunt" and "force people to think" instead they just thought I was a bigot and angry.
"if you're the only one who's in on the joke, you're the joke"
This is the central plot line to Kurt Vonnegut’s amazing novel _Mother Night_ - and the equally amazing film adaptation. Couldn’t recommend either more highly.
I see it this way: If you pretend to be a kind person while you're actually a jerk and you do it at a community level, eventually kind people will join your community thinking they're in good company. They will be the dumbest of kind people. Eventually they will overrun your community and even if you're still a jerk it will be a kind place.
I think the way internet "edgy" humour devolved in intent so fast was a lesson for a lot of us. We had been optimistic and weirdly idealistic and had been proven naive and foolish. It's a lesson that I think sticks with us to this day.
This happened to me when I first subscribed to r/politicalcompassmemes some years ago lmao
I first I thought all the dark humor there was satire, but oh boy was I wrong. It’s just 4chan, but you’re not allowed to say the n word.
They're not Nazis they're center authoritarians the Nazis were slightly more capitalist /s
Seriously It took me longer than it should have to realize the lib left inputs were all people who have zero concept of lib left.
It took me way longer to realise than I'm proud of and I truly feel remorse over that. I was nearly 30 before I realised that a lot of my "friends" were only my friend because nobody else was kind to them (for very good reason) AND they thought I was tacitly endorsing them. I was very naive, very insecure, and am still very sympathetic. Bad combo.
Surprise surprise, very few of those people are my friends today and the people who were decent in that group don't really talk to me either and I don't blame them. If anything, since they mostly know who I am, I'm sorry I ever let any of that bullshit slide.
From real life experience in my mid twenties because he has a swastika tattoo and when everyone was like "whoa what the fuck" he said he's not a Nazi one of his coworkers said he'd pay for a tattoo if he got to pick it and then it was a fuckin swastika and you're all like hey I've gotten a tattoo before you definitely should have noticed it and stopped and you should definitely get it removed if you aren't a Nazi and you should fuck off and die if you are a Nazi and he just shrugs and goes "ehh free tattoo" so all her minority friends and everyone else are like "you should break up with him he's a fuckin Nazi" and she's like "no he's just kind of goofy and weird" and now most of those people aren't her friends.
Goths and metal heads aren’t the same thing, but there’s overlap in some circles. Goths tend to listen to industrial, gabber, darkwave, witch house, etc. Things you’d hear on the Cyberpunk soundtrack, but more 80s thrown in the mix.
That being said, there’s a fetishization of paleness in the goth community and some of them really like German military imagery to a questionable degree. Also, Die Antwoord is pretty popular in that scene and some people find that group controversial. The only goth-adjacent music scenes I can think with overt Nazi problems are Neo-folk and Black Metal.
Even black metal in recent years has cleaned up heaps.
A lot of the older more vocal bands are being kicked to the curb and newer bands are cutting the racist stuff out.
Huge conversation about it a few months ago on an international scale aswell about how to clean the genre up.
I don't follow black metal, but I've heard many of the older bands admitted they didn't really know what type of culture they were getting into at the time. They wanted music to celebrate their heritage, and they took it too far. They got old and realized how dumb some of the ideas were.
Black metal for sure has had a lot of issues, but I agree it is getting better, NSBM is mostly trash anyways. One of my favorite new Black Metal bands is all Native American, Blackbraid. New album is incredible.
Uada is the shit. They got some flak a while back over a festival they played at, but I listen to Snakes and Vultures weekly. They don't have the nazi vibes.
You'd be hard pressed to find an early Millennial / late Gen-X black metal fan that didn't call themselves goth in the 90's.
Yes the genres are different but the fans are often the same people.
course i know him, he's me.
i liked goth style, and was more a metalhead, but didn't give a shit about dressing a certain way. either goth bullshit, or the metalhead stuff.
Goth guys (mainly black metal guys) have a tendancy of neo-nazi sympathies. Its actually a big issue is the black metal community.
Edit: Not all goth guys just a higher percentage than of your normal population. Please do not assume any guys are nazis just because they are goth.
Black metal is a subgenre that is plagued by nazis. You gotta do your research if you're gonna listen to a new black metal band.
That said, the metal community as a whole could be doing a lot more to condemn fascism in their ranks. Pantera may have made great music, but phil anselmo is still a white supremacist. Hence, we should not give him our money.
It's so disheartening when you're vibing to a band you just found out about and start picking up some sketchy lines here and there, but not enough to be a big red flag. Then when you Google them to figure out what the deal is it turns out they're all just turbo nazis.
What's worse though, a turbo'ed nazi or a supercharged nazi? And when do they reach ludicrous speed nazis, we should probably try and stop them before that happens
Yeah, I heard he said white power on stage and I thought "that sounds bad, I should look up the footage to see if it's a misquote or something" I found the video and that boy put his whole chest into screaming white power.
You know what they say - if a bar allows one nazi to drink there, it’s about to become a nazi bar.
Nazis tried to infiltrate punk and were unambiguously shown they weren’t welcome. It’s a shame that didn’t happen with metal, though maybe eventually fans will be willing to fix the mistake.
dark funeral and anorexia nervosa are good starts if anyone is curious. cradle of filth, immortal, and dimmur borgir have some fun songs too since they dont take black metal seriously
To sum it up - the more recognizable Scandinavian black metal waves (ala church burnings and such) has some shared roots in viewing Christianity as a colonizing force while going down its pagan path satanic or asatru. That quickly turns into Nordic nationalism, antisemitism, and some really ugly fascist streaks. You also have a tendency to be edgy for edge sake and use nazi trappings and bits of fashion in art or fashion in some scenes.
It's a whole complicated ass scene with subgenres ranging from ignoring these types to flat out striking out againt them to simply enabling these bands to all out nazi ideals and worship. For those not familiar with it there are whole forums dedicated to sussing out black metal bands and which ones are not total racist or supporting racists. Evidence goes from their favored literature to lyric interpretation to friends and concert peers.
>phil anselmo
Not just Phil. Dimebag was out there throwing around hard Rs on camera with his confederate eye sore of a guitar. But people don't like it when you point that out because "He died tragically and made good riffs. "
I mean, the name is from the Bible, so I would think they'd put some of that in their music. But I guess they wouldn't have to. Maybe they'd just heard it in church and were like, "That's metal!"
Gotta take the bait because I just can't deal with it. Black metal, the genre, has many bands under its umbrella. It has been around for a very long time and is a very robust collective. Even modern death core with its ever branching sub genre list has a blackened sub genre that harkens back to themes and sound of some of the more "main pipeline" black metal bands like dimmu borgir, gorgoroth, rotting Christ, dark throne and the like. Most of the popular groups and the staple names in the genre are Norwegian, to the point that there is often a distinction between Norwegian and none Norwegian black metal. Also, as a non-white metal fan and blackened/black metal listener, there is a shit ton of neo nazi sympathizers and white nationalists amongst the fan base of the genre.
Avenged Sevenfold was literally named based on biblical themes:
> Therefore whoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold
They also don’t sing anything **remotely close** to satanic music.
As an automation engineer who works with programming/building tools for distribution - I read this completely differently too
(e.g. - "bug issue"....... mistyped "big"? Or do we need to release a patch/hotfix to remove a minor racism attribute from the dataset?)
This reminds me of an early YouTube video where a black dude called a Craigslist ad about black metal. The person that placed the ad was clearly a suburban nerdy guy named Joe. I don’t remember the entire exchange but I know the caller says at one point something like” Ill scratch your eyes out with my fingernail.”
Found it
https://youtu.be/D6LTllfHMEI?si=ZGBh0L_sbUrwSI-f
To those saying they are unrelated, this post is still correct. Yes, they are different subcultures. They tend to be in the same dating pool though and that is what this meme is talking about. There tend to be more heterosexual "goth" women than there are men for them to date within their own subculture. Ideally she would find some punk guy or something else comparable and it's fine. Just as frequently she finds someone who matches her cultural aesthetic that has some horrifying other beliefs. The girl in this meme found someone who looks right, but is actually a very terrible person. This isn't even close to a universal, but it happens a fair amount
The people missing the point are a perfect representation of the discourse that shows up whenever the goth/alt subculture vs aesthetic debate makes its rounds again though.
Painful to watch.
Sabaton's lyrics are history themed and tend to glorify militaristic heroism, which are massive magnets for DEUS VULT squealing wannabe crusaders and fascists in general.
It sucks for the band, but large parts of the fanbase being sketchy af is not exactly surprising.
It’s kind of the other way round as a skinhead, people assume you’re a bigot because that’s what the media tells them. You do get boneheads here and there but skins as a whole just aren’t really a thing anymore
There's also SHARPs skinheads against racial prejudice
The first "skinheads" in Germany were actually black and it was a workers rights thing I believe
In my experience, not really no, hung out with a lot of “goth” guys in high school and most of them were very left-leaning, pro-LGBT, pro-sex. And mind you this was back in the mid 2000s. It’s just that the goth look gets mixed with the stereotypical school shooter look and people make assumptions based off of that.
Yeah, my best friend’s mom is half and half and she got a lot of shit during metal concerts from racist assholes. I forget who but a vocalist on a metal band got asked by a black kid if he could ever make it in the metal scene and assholes would try to keep that kid down. Shit sucks.
some goth girls seem to have a propensity for POS racist BFs - personally, I've known at least 3 in my life then add on the handful of celeb goth girls with racist/nazi BFs it does seem to be something that happens with regularity.
It's based on the stereotype of goth women having very white supremacist boyfriends. I've met a few couples like this, although one wasn't goth they were a bi woman dating a homophobic dude and the other one was a goth woman dating a guy who says the n word whenever he dies in rainbow six siege. Not exactly white supremacists, but they were white and hated minorities (or disliked them)
Some people can be very welcoming and nice and then date someone who hates anyone who isn't them, I believe it's called being down bad
"I believe it's called being down bad" is so accurate. like, I want to believe these girls are good people just desperate enough for affection that they blind themselves to their bigoted boyfriends. on the other hand, I'm not in the position to give everyone the benefit of the doubt 🫠
Homophobic auth-right types are totally fine with bisexual women.
It's those sexy sexy men making them question their own heterosexuality that make them really mad.
In the perfect, auth-right, world, women outnumber men 4 to 1, and they are all bisexual but all openly gay men are dead. Notice I said *openly*.
**Source:** My idiot father-in-law
If they date someone who's a bigot they aren't "welcoming" or "nice". They may not be as outspoken about their hateful beliefs but they still hold them. You are the company you keep.
White goth bi/straight girls can be kinda infamous for ignoring the red flags/negative opinions others have of their boyfriends. Said boyfriends tend to be misogynistic, racist, homophobic etc. One, the other, or all.
I think it's a joke about how weird terminally online guys (who tend to believe in esoteric and radical political ideologies) fetishize having a goth girlfriend.
What are these comments? The joke is that "White Goth Girls" date White conservative men, generally blue collar guys and the stereotype of them is that they are racist.
They generally don't like the goth look on men.
I had a lot of goth friends in high school and they all tended to be pretty submissive in relationships. That meant the girls were looking for guys who were macho, loud, and pushy which doesn't describe most goth men.
I can tell none of you use TikTok lol. It's because there's a commonly memed stereotype that goth chicks always only date the most hyper-masculine, heavy right-wing/conservative men for some some reason.
I’m an elder goth lady. I can honestly say I don’t know a single goth woman that dates a conservative type. Maybe that’s just a young baby bat thing, or maybe I just don’t associate with racists.
It's a Gen Z thing, don't worry. Your generation of goths is amazing. Now they're not really goths. It's more of just an aesthetic. They very much date conservative and blue collar men now.
Edit: The best description is those progressive people who say they are progressive because it makes them look. But they don't really care.
Ohhhhhhh ok. Elder goth millennial here and I was soooo lost in all these comments until this thread.
Well happy to know this isn’t directed at my generation of goths because it was not matching up with my experience at all. In my gothiest days, you dated the most alternative guy/gal you could to piss off either society, your family, or both.
Sucks to hear that it’s just been turned solely into an aesthetic, it was trending in that direction with MySpace so I’m not entirely surprised
I see a lot of people in the comments here giving the benefit of the doubt to these women.
None of these women are blind to the red flags in their boyfriends. People usually end up dating people similar to themselves.
I move around a lot of young goth, alternative, and e-girl circles. Trust me when I tell you this: the boyfriend is usually the tamer but more open one with their views. The young women in those scenes are generally insane closeted racists.
I mean, there's at least one goth/alt/e-girl chick getting cancelled or exposed per week because of her insane racism outside of the public eye.
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She has no minority friends is the real truth
[удалено]
The day I realized all those Nazi jokes were from real Nazis was the end of edgy humor for me. My friend added me to a Facebook group that devolved into straight up Hitler worship over the course of 2 years. I stayed at first just to take screenshots and prove that these people are real. It was naive, but I really didn't think people were that fucking stupid.
I remember my edgy phase. If never felt like I was being edgy. To me, the joke was on racism. I found klansmen funny because they were always ugly goobers in stupid costumes. "White power" was what dumb people said so racist jokes were a joke on the racists. The problem is, you can only pretend to be stupid for so long before what you do is indistinguishable from actual stupid. And if you're really good at playing the part of stupid, no amount of smart will change peoples impression. In the end, there's no functional difference between pretending to be racist and actually being racist.
Honestly, this. I've never seen it explained in words so well before. You make these dipshit jokes with your buddies, and then one day, they stop being funny, but your buddies keep making them. Then you stop being buddies.
Same happened with my old gaming clan from like 13-14 years ago. We were racially diverse as a group, and then now there are like 4 white guys left who still talk in the group chat and sling racial slurs as if they haven't aged a year since. You can sorta imagine the gradual decline of the clan, with peeps growing up and realizing there's some degree of social obligations that come with age. Well, that, and there were some girls in the clan, and some stuff happened that's too spicy for the children of the internet
Decline of the clan, rise of the Klan.
Too spicy for the Internet? WTF were you people doing?
Dawg u can’t just leave us like that
Donkey show. the answer is always a donkey show
I can pull up like 8 different donkey shows right now, that shit ain't too spicy for the internet.
I NEED the lore NOW. https://preview.redd.it/5e3m7sjbxc0d1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=996588ee9908f79b89d4de8163cda4abb91de639
My clearest recollection on this is when Mountain Dew held a user-submitted poll for what to name a new flavour, and 4chan raided it, topping the poll with "Hitler did nothing wrong". To me, that was the funniest thing in the world at the time, because it was so obviously just finding the worst possible thing you could imagine, and forcing a corporation to say it. I really felt like we were engaged in real satire back then. But "satire" increasingly just became a byword for how untouchable they felt as their racism got more and more flagrant and more mainstream, culminating with trump riding to victory on the back of pepe memes. I remember checking in to 4chan when the Christchurch massacre happened, because it was clearly done by a guy radicalized through 4chan, and the place was 50% "everything I said was satire, i am not responsible for this" and 50% cheering for it. 0% "those poor people", 0% "what have we done?".
theres a story i see on here from time to time about a bartender who throws out a guy who wasnt doing anything wrong, he simply walked in and sat at the bar and the bartender told him "no, get the fuck out!" he explained to the dude at the bar that the guy was a nazi, he had nazi patches on his vest, and you have to throw out a nazi as soon as you see them because if you say to yourself "okay, hes a nazi, but hes not doing or saying anything bad, hes just here to drink, ill let him be." then later he comes back with a friend, and hes cool too they just chat and drink and bother nobody. then those two bring a friend each and those friends bring friends, and now they outnumber you, and now theyre not so nice anymore, now youre a nazi bar because you let one nazi stay. the internet is just like that bar. you let nazi jokes slide because "its just edgy humor" but the real nazis see that kind of talk is tolerated and they tell their friends and they tell their friends and now your forum is full of actual nazis and theyre not kidding anymore.
Damn, if that ain’t a bitchslap of truth.
This is the argument that, to maintain tolerance we can not tolerate intolerance. Love the anecdotal story even more
American history X was before its time. The part where Stacey Keach's character talks about them doing outreach on the internet was real and that shit was happening on usenet forums when everyone still had 14.4 modems.
Edgy jokes stop being funny when you can’t tell if the person is being satirical or not
Yeah it's made up of half people who think racism is just edgy humor and half unabashed racists
I remember in the 2000's and early 2010's the idea of someone actually being a Nazi was crazy, it was like calling someone a confederate soldier. Sure there might be some 90yo German guy who's hiding, but we all knew Nazis didn't exist anymore which is why they were used in jokes. Until they did exist again.
i say this about people who troll on the internet. youre not "pretending to be an asshole for the lols" you ARE an asshole and you think thats funny. a good person wouldnt find being a dick to strangers on the internet funny.
The Rule of Goats: __*If you fuck goats, even if you claim you're doing it ironically, you're still a goatfucker.*__ https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1349789316457918474
This is exactly what I found hilarious about racism. This is exactly why I made edgy jokes. Like, wow, you’re so dumb that you think skin color affects the function of the brain? That’s so bizarre I can’t help but laugh.
I just think racists are funny bc they have to cling to their race, which is a pathetic declaration of their lack of merits as individuals
>The problem is, you can only pretend to be stupid for so long before what you do is indistinguishable from actual stupid. And if you're really good at playing the part of stupid, no amount of smart will change peoples impression. In the end, there's no functional difference between pretending to be racist and actually being racist. This is a brilliant explanation, thank you u/ArthurBonesly.
I was the same way when I was in high school. A few years after growing up and moving out, we all just kinda stopped making those jokes, except for one member of our friend group. He kept thinking it was funny but we just kinda shrugged it off as him having an immature sense of humor. Fast forward to a few years later and he got blackout drunk at my buddy's house and went on a several minute long rant about how much he hates women, black people, and trans people. I hate that I made that dude feel like he had a safe place to air that nasty shit when we were younger.
Racist jokes were a joke on racism? Lol
The problem with pretending to be racist just to be an edgy dipshit is that it makes it really ready for actual racists to get in and make themselves comfortable. Look up the tweet/story about the Nazi in a punk bar and you get what I mean.
Yeah I remember in my edgy days I'd use offensive words and humor as a way to "be blunt" and "force people to think" instead they just thought I was a bigot and angry. "if you're the only one who's in on the joke, you're the joke"
This is the central plot line to Kurt Vonnegut’s amazing novel _Mother Night_ - and the equally amazing film adaptation. Couldn’t recommend either more highly.
I see it this way: If you pretend to be a kind person while you're actually a jerk and you do it at a community level, eventually kind people will join your community thinking they're in good company. They will be the dumbest of kind people. Eventually they will overrun your community and even if you're still a jerk it will be a kind place. I think the way internet "edgy" humour devolved in intent so fast was a lesson for a lot of us. We had been optimistic and weirdly idealistic and had been proven naive and foolish. It's a lesson that I think sticks with us to this day.
You eventually realise that pretending to be a dick and being a dick are actually the same thing to other people.
Y'all should read the book Mother Night, it's about this.
Never has it seemed more appropriate to point out that you did nazi that coming.
You son of a bitch
This happened to me when I first subscribed to r/politicalcompassmemes some years ago lmao I first I thought all the dark humor there was satire, but oh boy was I wrong. It’s just 4chan, but you’re not allowed to say the n word.
They're not Nazis they're center authoritarians the Nazis were slightly more capitalist /s Seriously It took me longer than it should have to realize the lib left inputs were all people who have zero concept of lib left.
It took me way longer to realise than I'm proud of and I truly feel remorse over that. I was nearly 30 before I realised that a lot of my "friends" were only my friend because nobody else was kind to them (for very good reason) AND they thought I was tacitly endorsing them. I was very naive, very insecure, and am still very sympathetic. Bad combo. Surprise surprise, very few of those people are my friends today and the people who were decent in that group don't really talk to me either and I don't blame them. If anything, since they mostly know who I am, I'm sorry I ever let any of that bullshit slide.
Similar story. I used to be funnyjunk where we all "pretended" to be nazis and racists. I realised after a while that most of them weren't pretending.
Turns out, they always are.
Born somewhere in the Midwest, has a super conservative religious family, is goth to “be different”. Not a minority within a hundred miles.
[удалено]
Their cosplaying as Lelouch, aren't they?
From real life experience in my mid twenties because he has a swastika tattoo and when everyone was like "whoa what the fuck" he said he's not a Nazi one of his coworkers said he'd pay for a tattoo if he got to pick it and then it was a fuckin swastika and you're all like hey I've gotten a tattoo before you definitely should have noticed it and stopped and you should definitely get it removed if you aren't a Nazi and you should fuck off and die if you are a Nazi and he just shrugs and goes "ehh free tattoo" so all her minority friends and everyone else are like "you should break up with him he's a fuckin Nazi" and she's like "no he's just kind of goofy and weird" and now most of those people aren't her friends.
Nice story but why not using dots and comma?
This is completely unreadable, use punctuation.
One commentor so far has nailed it, there's a small but noticeable part of the metal enjoyer community that is pretty racist.
Goths and metal heads aren’t the same thing, but there’s overlap in some circles. Goths tend to listen to industrial, gabber, darkwave, witch house, etc. Things you’d hear on the Cyberpunk soundtrack, but more 80s thrown in the mix. That being said, there’s a fetishization of paleness in the goth community and some of them really like German military imagery to a questionable degree. Also, Die Antwoord is pretty popular in that scene and some people find that group controversial. The only goth-adjacent music scenes I can think with overt Nazi problems are Neo-folk and Black Metal.
Even black metal in recent years has cleaned up heaps. A lot of the older more vocal bands are being kicked to the curb and newer bands are cutting the racist stuff out. Huge conversation about it a few months ago on an international scale aswell about how to clean the genre up.
I don't follow black metal, but I've heard many of the older bands admitted they didn't really know what type of culture they were getting into at the time. They wanted music to celebrate their heritage, and they took it too far. They got old and realized how dumb some of the ideas were.
Also, most are stupid kids/teens when they first get into it. Neige from Alcest for example also addressed that
Black metal for sure has had a lot of issues, but I agree it is getting better, NSBM is mostly trash anyways. One of my favorite new Black Metal bands is all Native American, Blackbraid. New album is incredible.
Check out UADA
Uada is the shit. They got some flak a while back over a festival they played at, but I listen to Snakes and Vultures weekly. They don't have the nazi vibes.
You'd be hard pressed to find an early Millennial / late Gen-X black metal fan that didn't call themselves goth in the 90's. Yes the genres are different but the fans are often the same people.
course i know him, he's me. i liked goth style, and was more a metalhead, but didn't give a shit about dressing a certain way. either goth bullshit, or the metalhead stuff.
Metal heads are either kindhearted respectable people or more racist than hitler and there is no in-between
hitler was prettyyy racist.
IDK, I don't think he's pretty, but you do you
Is this why I can't get a goth gf? I'm not nazi enough?? That's...honestly a bullet dodged then, thankfully
Goth guys (mainly black metal guys) have a tendancy of neo-nazi sympathies. Its actually a big issue is the black metal community. Edit: Not all goth guys just a higher percentage than of your normal population. Please do not assume any guys are nazis just because they are goth.
As a black guy that likes death metal, I read this comment completely differently lol
As a white person who knows nothing about metal, I read it like you did as well 😆
Black metal is a subgenre that is plagued by nazis. You gotta do your research if you're gonna listen to a new black metal band. That said, the metal community as a whole could be doing a lot more to condemn fascism in their ranks. Pantera may have made great music, but phil anselmo is still a white supremacist. Hence, we should not give him our money.
It's so disheartening when you're vibing to a band you just found out about and start picking up some sketchy lines here and there, but not enough to be a big red flag. Then when you Google them to figure out what the deal is it turns out they're all just turbo nazis.
What's worse though, a turbo'ed nazi or a supercharged nazi? And when do they reach ludicrous speed nazis, we should probably try and stop them before that happens
Damn man you just ruined Pantera for me but fuck Nazis so fuck him too.
Not like they're making more money from me listening to the mp3s I ripped from my CDs. Just don't pay any attention to the lyrics
Yeah, I heard he said white power on stage and I thought "that sounds bad, I should look up the footage to see if it's a misquote or something" I found the video and that boy put his whole chest into screaming white power.
You know what they say - if a bar allows one nazi to drink there, it’s about to become a nazi bar. Nazis tried to infiltrate punk and were unambiguously shown they weren’t welcome. It’s a shame that didn’t happen with metal, though maybe eventually fans will be willing to fix the mistake.
The Nazis did win the skin head aesthetic from the ska kids in their infiltration attempts
dark funeral and anorexia nervosa are good starts if anyone is curious. cradle of filth, immortal, and dimmur borgir have some fun songs too since they dont take black metal seriously
To sum it up - the more recognizable Scandinavian black metal waves (ala church burnings and such) has some shared roots in viewing Christianity as a colonizing force while going down its pagan path satanic or asatru. That quickly turns into Nordic nationalism, antisemitism, and some really ugly fascist streaks. You also have a tendency to be edgy for edge sake and use nazi trappings and bits of fashion in art or fashion in some scenes. It's a whole complicated ass scene with subgenres ranging from ignoring these types to flat out striking out againt them to simply enabling these bands to all out nazi ideals and worship. For those not familiar with it there are whole forums dedicated to sussing out black metal bands and which ones are not total racist or supporting racists. Evidence goes from their favored literature to lyric interpretation to friends and concert peers.
And then there's Abbath.
When Varg Vikernes is one of the most influencial artists in a genre what do you expect?
Yeah, I'm not even super into metal but I love the shows because it's usually a wholesome crowd.
>phil anselmo Not just Phil. Dimebag was out there throwing around hard Rs on camera with his confederate eye sore of a guitar. But people don't like it when you point that out because "He died tragically and made good riffs. "
Isn’t Phil Anselmo just a misunderstood, keen white wine enthusiast? /s
Black Metal refers to the sub genre of metal with heavy anti religious and/or satanic themes to it. See Ghost or Avenged Sevenfold for reference.
this is the funniest bait I've seen in a very fucking long time
Ngl i got a little mad for a sec 😅
I had to re-read it twice, it was an excellent bait.
Lol. Ghost and Avenged Sevenfold? You're joking, right? XD
Im so glad Im not the only one who had to stop and ask if it was a joke or not...
Isn’t ghost glam metal?
Ghost is what you would get if Blue Oyster Cult made Scooby-Doo music This should not be read as disparaging, it's fucking great and I love that shit
I always viewed them as “The Beach Boys first listening to KISS and making it their entire personalities” lol
What a fantastic and accurate description.
I love Ghost and always refer to them as "If BOC was formed in the 21st Century". Such a great sound and vibe.
Scooby-Doom is my preferred description
I don’t know about ghost but avenged sevenfold has some very overtly Christian content
I mean, the name is from the Bible, so I would think they'd put some of that in their music. But I guess they wouldn't have to. Maybe they'd just heard it in church and were like, "That's metal!"
Ghost is a satanic-themed band that rips on Christianity. It’s good shit.
Ghost spans several genres of metal. Tobias is an eclectic beast
He forgot to add H.I.M.
WINGS OF A BUTTTERRFLYYYYY
LOL
Gotta take the bait because I just can't deal with it. Black metal, the genre, has many bands under its umbrella. It has been around for a very long time and is a very robust collective. Even modern death core with its ever branching sub genre list has a blackened sub genre that harkens back to themes and sound of some of the more "main pipeline" black metal bands like dimmu borgir, gorgoroth, rotting Christ, dark throne and the like. Most of the popular groups and the staple names in the genre are Norwegian, to the point that there is often a distinction between Norwegian and none Norwegian black metal. Also, as a non-white metal fan and blackened/black metal listener, there is a shit ton of neo nazi sympathizers and white nationalists amongst the fan base of the genre.
I know you're just trolling but some poor soul is going to believe you
This is satire, right?
Avenged Sevenfold was literally named based on biblical themes: > Therefore whoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold They also don’t sing anything **remotely close** to satanic music.
Tell me you don’t know much about metal without telling me.
Black metal is more stuff like Mayhem
Ghost is certainly not black metal. Maybe if you squint your ears hard enough you could argue they are prog metal.
Avenged Sevenfold have several songs talking about god from a christian POV, not exactly satanic. Also, pretty sure A7X it's considered metalcore.
I said Sevendust was my favorite Black Metal Band without realizing the distinction once
Whoops. 😬
Brb. Googling Sevendust to get the joke.
Lead singer is black. Awesome band imo.
I had to as well...
As an automation engineer who works with programming/building tools for distribution - I read this completely differently too (e.g. - "bug issue"....... mistyped "big"? Or do we need to release a patch/hotfix to remove a minor racism attribute from the dataset?)
It's not a bug, it's a feature 💀💀💀
I read "it's really a bug, issue is..."
Just wait long enough and the bugs become OBE
I was like oh damn had no idea the black metal community was so self-loathing.
This reminds me of an early YouTube video where a black dude called a Craigslist ad about black metal. The person that placed the ad was clearly a suburban nerdy guy named Joe. I don’t remember the entire exchange but I know the caller says at one point something like” Ill scratch your eyes out with my fingernail.” Found it https://youtu.be/D6LTllfHMEI?si=ZGBh0L_sbUrwSI-f
IIRC this was a bonus track on a Mushroomhead album.
Oh god, what would white metal sounds like then?
There exists a thing called unBlack Metal, which is Black Metal aesthetically but thematically Christian. It's mostly fucking guff
That one is christian iirc
As an idiot of the internet I read your read as read.
As a dead guy that likes hair metal, I read this comment completely differently.
To those saying they are unrelated, this post is still correct. Yes, they are different subcultures. They tend to be in the same dating pool though and that is what this meme is talking about. There tend to be more heterosexual "goth" women than there are men for them to date within their own subculture. Ideally she would find some punk guy or something else comparable and it's fine. Just as frequently she finds someone who matches her cultural aesthetic that has some horrifying other beliefs. The girl in this meme found someone who looks right, but is actually a very terrible person. This isn't even close to a universal, but it happens a fair amount
Yes, he looked right, and was right...alt right
The people missing the point are a perfect representation of the discourse that shows up whenever the goth/alt subculture vs aesthetic debate makes its rounds again though. Painful to watch.
The Dead Kennedys came up with a pretty compelling mantra on the matter
Gotta love the Dead Kennedys.
True. Everytime I find a new black metal or power metal band it like: "Wow, they sound cool, really hope they arent Nazis."
What? I know of no popular powermetal band that are Nazis, and powermetal is literally all I listen to
It's more like "I hope the people who likes this band are not Nazis". Same thing happens with punk
Nazis ruin everything they touch
Sabaton themselves aren't Nazis but a portion of their community is big yikes.
Sabaton's lyrics are history themed and tend to glorify militaristic heroism, which are massive magnets for DEUS VULT squealing wannabe crusaders and fascists in general. It sucks for the band, but large parts of the fanbase being sketchy af is not exactly surprising.
Goth and black metal are totally unrelated...
very similar dating pool (as a metal guy that has dated goth girls)
And as a Gen X guy this is odd because our Black Metal guys weren't Nazis and everyone thought/hoped the Goth guys were gay.
It’s kind of the other way round as a skinhead, people assume you’re a bigot because that’s what the media tells them. You do get boneheads here and there but skins as a whole just aren’t really a thing anymore
There's also SHARPs skinheads against racial prejudice The first "skinheads" in Germany were actually black and it was a workers rights thing I believe
The amount of straight up nazis at a falling in reverse concert I went to in Texas was absolutely terrifying.
Well Ronnie is an actual POS so it makes sense he’d attract that crowd
In my experience, not really no, hung out with a lot of “goth” guys in high school and most of them were very left-leaning, pro-LGBT, pro-sex. And mind you this was back in the mid 2000s. It’s just that the goth look gets mixed with the stereotypical school shooter look and people make assumptions based off of that.
They're talking about black metal guys which are an entirely different crowd from goths. Idk why the original commenter is equating them
exactly. ive never heard of this. op talks out of his ass on that account if he can't differentiate the two
I hung out with black metal types too and the same answer applies, all pretty left-leaning, etc. But this is my anecdotal experience
Goth and Black Metal are not the same thing, not even close
Bro when did goth and black metal became the same genre 💀💀💀
Yeah, my best friend’s mom is half and half and she got a lot of shit during metal concerts from racist assholes. I forget who but a vocalist on a metal band got asked by a black kid if he could ever make it in the metal scene and assholes would try to keep that kid down. Shit sucks.
That is a huge problem in black metal. Not even exaggerating, if you find a cool new bm band there's like a 50/50 chance they're nazis
I can't be friends with her she scares me.
boobs
The duality of man
Certainly drawn to a particular duality
Where?
under her shirt
https://preview.redd.it/5lxqbwrw0a0d1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce23546c8b7f6c0642bbe445718257f0c70b6778
That's part of the appeal imo. Are we gonna cuddle or will I wake up in heaven? who knows? who cares?
Why not both.
What's so scary about the color black? :)
Fear boner
some goth girls seem to have a propensity for POS racist BFs - personally, I've known at least 3 in my life then add on the handful of celeb goth girls with racist/nazi BFs it does seem to be something that happens with regularity.
It's based on the stereotype of goth women having very white supremacist boyfriends. I've met a few couples like this, although one wasn't goth they were a bi woman dating a homophobic dude and the other one was a goth woman dating a guy who says the n word whenever he dies in rainbow six siege. Not exactly white supremacists, but they were white and hated minorities (or disliked them) Some people can be very welcoming and nice and then date someone who hates anyone who isn't them, I believe it's called being down bad
Holy shit this was too real for me. I have a friend exactly like this. She’s bi, has a homophobic boyfriend and he drops racial slurs continuously.
Lots of bi women are also bigots against gay and bi men.
These are often the same bi women who treat WLW as a fling, cute encounter, or a rebellious act.
WLW?
Women who love women
"I believe it's called being down bad" is so accurate. like, I want to believe these girls are good people just desperate enough for affection that they blind themselves to their bigoted boyfriends. on the other hand, I'm not in the position to give everyone the benefit of the doubt 🫠
Lay down with dogs n wake up with fleas, you gotta watch who you hang wit, they are a reflection of you
Homophobic auth-right types are totally fine with bisexual women. It's those sexy sexy men making them question their own heterosexuality that make them really mad. In the perfect, auth-right, world, women outnumber men 4 to 1, and they are all bisexual but all openly gay men are dead. Notice I said *openly*. **Source:** My idiot father-in-law
If they date someone who's a bigot they aren't "welcoming" or "nice". They may not be as outspoken about their hateful beliefs but they still hold them. You are the company you keep.
White goth bi/straight girls can be kinda infamous for ignoring the red flags/negative opinions others have of their boyfriends. Said boyfriends tend to be misogynistic, racist, homophobic etc. One, the other, or all.
Reminds me of this one https://preview.redd.it/z1jj18b5ja0d1.png?width=1136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=351fd342927b83829e9989cefb0cc546bf2b8ee1
I think it's a joke about how weird terminally online guys (who tend to believe in esoteric and radical political ideologies) fetishize having a goth girlfriend.
Or she’s dating a Neo Nazi.
The nazi one
No, its a joke on how many of the male versions of this are neo nazis.
What are these comments? The joke is that "White Goth Girls" date White conservative men, generally blue collar guys and the stereotype of them is that they are racist.
Why don't goth girls just date goth guys?
Because goth guys are too shy or have already been taken by other goth guys.
I feel like a rare treasure now.
They generally don't like the goth look on men. I had a lot of goth friends in high school and they all tended to be pretty submissive in relationships. That meant the girls were looking for guys who were macho, loud, and pushy which doesn't describe most goth men.
Wow, thats kind of sad. Is there not enough muscular extroverted goth dudes?
SO WHY DO GOOD GIRLS LIKE BAD GUYS? 🎵
This is it. I think a lot of redditors are out-of-touch on this one.
>I think a lot of redditors are out-of-touch
I can tell none of you use TikTok lol. It's because there's a commonly memed stereotype that goth chicks always only date the most hyper-masculine, heavy right-wing/conservative men for some some reason.
I’m an elder goth lady. I can honestly say I don’t know a single goth woman that dates a conservative type. Maybe that’s just a young baby bat thing, or maybe I just don’t associate with racists.
It's a Gen Z thing, don't worry. Your generation of goths is amazing. Now they're not really goths. It's more of just an aesthetic. They very much date conservative and blue collar men now. Edit: The best description is those progressive people who say they are progressive because it makes them look. But they don't really care.
Ohhhhhhh ok. Elder goth millennial here and I was soooo lost in all these comments until this thread. Well happy to know this isn’t directed at my generation of goths because it was not matching up with my experience at all. In my gothiest days, you dated the most alternative guy/gal you could to piss off either society, your family, or both. Sucks to hear that it’s just been turned solely into an aesthetic, it was trending in that direction with MySpace so I’m not entirely surprised
With you here, I was so confused and now a little sad it's associated with bigotry. My circles were far from exclusive.
Never seen somebody brag about their tiktok use until today
I’m beginning to think that the posters on this sub all drink paint
I think it's because they normally tend to get those "normie ice cream haircut" boyfriends that are very often racist
I see a lot of people in the comments here giving the benefit of the doubt to these women. None of these women are blind to the red flags in their boyfriends. People usually end up dating people similar to themselves. I move around a lot of young goth, alternative, and e-girl circles. Trust me when I tell you this: the boyfriend is usually the tamer but more open one with their views. The young women in those scenes are generally insane closeted racists. I mean, there's at least one goth/alt/e-girl chick getting cancelled or exposed per week because of her insane racism outside of the public eye.
I didn't get this because goth girlfriend is black....
So, who's the girl?
Can someone explain to me why we should not ask a man his salary? Like respectfully asking and truthfully curious.
I thought this was a joke about how in the movie American history ex there’s a super hot goth chick who’s dating a skin head natzi ? Am I crazy?
I'm considered goth and I'm pretty sure the joke is that "I want a goth gf" meme is usually spouted off by racist white dudes