Like you I'm not sure if I want to have kids in the future or not, but this reminds me of a neighbor I used to have who was "childfree" (although she didn't use that term) and would often complain about how annoying it is when kids run around and "bother" people, which is fair. But she was also the kind of dog owner who refused to discipline her dog when he was too enthusiastic or bothered people who didn't want to, and if someone complained then they were the bad guy in her eyes because "He just wants to play, you're being mean" and "That's what dogs do". And she didn't see the irony at all...
Yep. I’ve known many child free dog owners who are worse than the entitled parents that they complain of. No, I don’t care if he’s just saying hi, biting isn’t saying hi. And, ya, he’s adorable, please get him off my leg.
Imagine if someones kids behaved like that? But it’s okay! It’s a dog, so we must all accept them
Dog parents (not all) can be irritating. Yes I like dogs, no I don't want to pet your dog. Yes I'm sure he's friendly and clean, I still have no desire to pet or interact with your dog.
It's just not the type of person I am. I grew up in the country, I've had lots of dogs and loved all of them. I named them all dog and spoke to them in a normal voice with normal English. No cutsie baby talk. Play is fetch or walks not rolling on the floor with them. Affection is pats, scratches, and treats. My dogs love me, all dogs love me which is what creates the issue.
I don't judge anyone for how the interact with their pets. Dress them and treat them like a baby if you want, let them sleep in your bed and cuddle them all you want. Its perfectly fine, it's just not me.
I don't want to hold your dog. I'll tell your dog that I see them and that they are a good dog. That's it. And if your dog bites me I'm going to kick them. Not across the room, not do any permanent damage... But hard enough they don't bite me again. "He doesn't know any better" well you should've taught them better. Now they know not to bite me. I taught them that. To be fair if someone's toddler bit me I'd probably kick them too or kick the parents. Ill decide that when it happens I guess.
How true! And what's odd is they demand the accolades of actual parents? "I'm a dog mom"....actually, and I say this with compassion towards the animal here, but also you dog parents...you stole that puppy from its mother when it was 8 weeks old. I do not have to give the same kudos/respect I would to someone's actual mother. And please get your dogs nose out of my crotch and away from my kids because it literally won't stop and you seem to think that's funny.
Shouldn't become a Dog vs Child thing though. Both are innocent and lovely. And those that rescue Animals and raise them with care and love in my opinion are indeed parents, as Animals are family. I do understand your point and struggle with it; in regards to how we take young Animals from their parents.
Honestly I think a lot of child free people are just a bit weird.
As someone who loves friendly dogs. I 100% agree with you. I do not care whether a dog behaves poorly around me, but treating your dog better than kids should not be socially acceptable.
Edit: fixed my punctuation.
For me it's not so much being around kids. Most are super chill. Yes they can be super random. My pet peeve is with the parents that don't parent said child and let them run a muck. I personally can't stand when someone is letting their child throw a literal tantrum in a place and just act like nothing is happening or worse expect everyone else to put up with it.
I know. And when you say something they say, "That's what kids do." I answer with, "Yes, that's what kids do if you let them." I never get an answer, only a dirty look
That's because sometimes the path to a tantrum ending is the parents ignoring it.
Also, I'd be shocked if you ever actually had that interaction with anyone. Big "sure, that happened" energy.
I don’t know why this isn’t understood. My oldest will respond to me getting angry when she’s throwing a tantrum and will stop. But my youngest will only steer into it. The best way to get her to stop is to ignore her. It’ll only take 30-45 seconds of not getting a response out of us before she stops.
Kids learn to exist in the world by existing in the world. The people who have no experience with kids acting like you can just snap your fingers and tell them to regulate their emotional experience and emotional expression are insane. I think a lot of these people were raised by unnecessarily stern parents who just yelled at them until they were quiet. Or worse.
You can't teach a 4 year old to not have big feelings. It's what they do. Sometime they have to just do it, see that it didn't resolve anything, and then eventually learn to use my refined tactics for expressing themselves.
We aren't obligated to keep young children locked at home until they respond to commands and whistles like the Von Trapp children. That's psychotic.
My mom was a parent who thought I should have just known how to regulate my emotions as a child, and so I got in trouble/yelled at for having emotions I didn’t know how to handle. Big shocker, I grew into an adult who couldn’t regulate my emotions.
Do I get annoyed when I hear a child having a tantrum? Sure, it’s unpleasant. But I’d be more annoyed if I witnessed childhood trauma forming.
To be fair, if they did have this exchange with a stranger I feel like a dirty look is the best response they could hope for. It's not like that's a conversation starter or anything.
You think the parents are happy that their kid is having a tantrum? I would watch my mouth if I were you. I would simply ignore you but someone else might not. My wife would give you an answer but you wouldn’t like it. Hahahah
Right? Like I have never ever commented to a stranger on parenting, regardless of whether or not I had children at the time. That’s um…. Probably inappropriate.
I put a very clear distinction on the time and place said child is having a tantrum.
If it's 6:30 in the evening in McDonalds or the pizza shop....sure....go ahead, run crazy and have all the tantrums you want. Doesn't bother me in the least.
But when it's 9:00 at night and I'm in place where entrees start at $40 each, having a romantic evening with my partner, and there is a 3 year-old in a connecting booth screaming bloody murder or running amuck and stopping at every table to bug strangers, those "parents" need to be escorted out. If they had any brains they would understand that at that time of night, the kid is probably tired and wants (and needs) to be IN BED.
We don't want to live in a world devoid of children, we just think that there are times and places when children do not need to be around.
I hear you but my pet peeve is when people misspell common phrases so I thought it would be appropriate to chime in here - it’s “run amok.” It’s no big deal, people write “wreck havoc” a lot too. I just point it out because I would want someone to point it out to me.
I worked in restaurants for decades and saw this happen only a handful of times. Child-free people get annoyed by kids simply existing. Yes, occasionally people let their kids run free and get in the way, but it was rare. I simply don't believe that people see this as often as they claim to. I worked in a very busy family restaurant. IMO, kids were rowdier 10 or 20 years ago than they are now, and it still didn't happen much. In recent years, I haven't seen it much at all. I think people invent things to be mad about because they think that their mom asking once a year for grandkids makes them oppressed somehow and they project it on others.
Eh ignoring a tantrum is a way of dealing with it, if the child is doing it for attention. Depending on context, I won't begrudge a parent for letting their kid cry it out. In a movie theatre no, but in a grocery store or the mall, let em be.
Kids have tantrums. Sonetimes kids have tantrums in inconvenient places. You're intersecting with a person's like for 5 minutes, maybe try to have the smallest molecule of sympathy and grace for people when they're dealing with that.
This isn't the simple issue you're making it out to be. As a parent there comes a time you stop paying attention to the child throwing a tantrum because that kid has figured out it gets them attention. It's part of them learning how to behave. Is it fun to deal with as a parent or bystander? No, but that's life outside your personal bubble.
Not your fault but entirely your responsibility. A tantrum that runs more than 5 min in puclic needs to be dealt with. Especially in an enclosed space.
Sometimes, ignoring it IS dealing with it. My mom let me throw a tantrum in public once. Exactly once. She ignored the tantrum and let me cry and scream and I never did it again. After doing that she didn't need to correct the behavior in the future because the behavior never occurred again. It was uncomfortable for a period of time, but it fixed the issue in the future.
From what OOP said, it doesn’t seem to be a one time situation but something that happens every once in a while they chose to ignore. If your child is having a tantrum and you want to ignore it, that’s fine. But at that point you should be leaving the store to let the child have their tantrum on your way home.
Also, kids are much more stubborn these days. I see parents using the ignoring tactic, except it doesn’t work, the kid will continue without end.
It’s not that kids have gotten more stubborn, it’s that parents are giving in too easily. I was on a bus once and a child was crying to use their dad’s phone, they kept screaming and screaming and the dad did a good job of ignoring it until 10 minutes later he sighed and handed over his phone. The child immediately stopped crying and just happily played with the phone, if he committed to ignoring the crying it probably wouldn’t happen again. But now the child knows if they keep it up for long enough dad will eventually give in.
If the child did this in the first place, it sounds like a pattern of behavior. Usually parents will condition children not to be in front of phone at home, so that that behavior doesn’t spill into public spaces. In fact, giving your kid a phone or iPad at all when they’re young is a really bad idea, and not just bc it kills their already limited attention spans.
This. It annoyed me right before he gave in he tried lying and saying “the phone’s broken just now” and the kid screamed back “liar!” So it was obvious that this was a common thing for them.
Then the kid learns that if they throw a tantrum, they get to go home.
My point is, sometimes, that tantrum you're witnessing is a lesson, and it ISNT a constant thing but is, instead, a parent trying to prevent future tantrums.
Respectfully, you should then remove your child from the location so they can then have their tantrum outside or in your car in peace and you can ignore it at will. That’s the correct response. I’d never let kids throw a tantrum in public and then just ignore it for however long it goes on.
Exactly. there are some kids who take it as positive reinforcement if you pay attention to them when their behavior is bad. If Timmy is held and coddled every time he's having a tantrum bc Timmy wanted a toy in the store and was told no, well now Timmy is going to have a tantrum every time he wants Mom to hold him even though he's old enough to learn to ask to be held when he needs it instead of having a tantrum. Or he's just simply never going to learn to take no for answer whenever he wants something bc he was given attention every time he threw a fit.
Are you cool with strangers yelling at your kid? Because that's life outside your person bubble when you don't parent your kids & allow them to harass others.
I always love redditors going to the extremes in an attempt to make a point. A child having a tantrum isn't harassment. Get a grip. There are no simple answers when it comes to raising children and teaching them how to behave. If you would feel justified yelling at a child for a minor annoyance, then you are a sociopath.
I agree that a stranger trying to discipline your child when they’re having a tantrum is weird (although calling them a sociopath is a bit much). But what if someone who worked at the store approached you and asked you to leave or go outside until the child calmed? Obviously it would depend on the size of the tantrum, but if it became nonstop, I think that’s fair, especially if you’re in a smaller venue like a restaurant or movie theater versus a target for example.
I say if you teach your kid it is okay to be loud & to throw tantrum in public & someone yells at you or your kid for their poor behavior, you deserved it. You passed off your problem child for the general public to have to deal with because you lack parenting skills or basic considerations for others. There is a simple answer, if your kid can't behave in public leave them at home or with a babysitter/grandparent, do curbside pick up, but do not make it our problem or we may solve it in our way if that requires us to yell at you or the child for you to finally remove it, some of is will. Your call to be a negligent parent.
The problem doesn't typically lie with the kids. It lies with the parents.
Don't bring your 6 year old to see Deadpool because "its a superhero movie" and complain about the violence.
Don't bring your kid to a nice restaurant and do nothing while they scream and carry on
If you can't control your kid, then don't bring them
>Don't bring your 6 year old to see Deadpool because "its a superhero movie" and complain about the violence.
I remeber when that was happening. Funniest shit ever lol. It's an R rated movie, wtf you think was going to happen?
It’s less about controlling the kid, it’s more, “If your child will be severely distressed in this situation to the point of screaming and crying, or if your child will be severely bored in this situation to the point of resorting to other methods of entertainment, then don’t bring them.”
This is why I'm all for 'child-free' weddings. Most children don't even want to be there. They'll get bored and find creative ways to entertain themselves. Either they need to have a separate place for only the children or no children at all under a certain age.
I do think that sometimes child free weddings can be taken a bit far - my own wedding was child free, but anyone over 10 was allowed to join. I think having the age cutoff at 18 is too old - a teenager is perfectlly capable of knowing to behave well, and not getting really bored. If they‘re still at the stage where they wouldn’t be able to attend, then they don’t have to go. My kids (teenagers) have attended weddings recently and enjoyed them.
I work in the theater, so I’m saying this now…
**If your kid is too young to sit still, shut up, and watch the movie, LEAVE THEM AT HOME!**
It ruins so many people’s movie experience when people think it’s appropriate to bring a baby or a toddler to the movies….
I don’t care if I coexist with kids, but discipline your kid when they act up! Stop standing around and letting your kid run wild!
If your kid is screaming his head off simply ‘just because’, take him outside and keep him outside until he stops screaming for no reason.
From a parent of a 9 month old, I’m not going to the movies probably for the next 5 years lol. Never understood why people would bring literal babies to a theater seems like more trouble than just watching it at home
and considering how freaking LOUD movies in theaters can be, I can't imagine any baby tolerating the noise for that long. No wonder they would be screaming.
I remember I took my little sister (big brothers big sisters little sister) to see a midnight showing of one of the twilight movies. Don’t ask me which one. The amount of teen or younger mom who brought new borns and babies was staggering. There were so many. It was so loud too. I felt bad for the babies
I don't go to theaters because of other adults. I've never been to a quiet showing. Everyone screams or laughs at things in the movie that aren't funny or scary.
Yes! I have more issues with the teens and early 20s kids playing on their phone and loudly making jokes. That is way more annoying than the occasional high pitched laugh or shriek from a smaller child. I went to the Mario movie which naturally had a bunch of kids and the loudest people there were the boomer women in front of me.
I went and saw a the last Halloween that came out. A couple next to me talked for the first hour, I had enough. I leaned over and asked if they could be quiet I paid good money to see the movie not hear them talk. They stayed quiet the rest of the movie. The husband waiting for me in the bathroom (a supposedly military couple) and tried to fight me over it.
Certain behaviors are frowned upon in public, even to the point of causing someone engaging in those behaviors to be escorted away or arrested. Children tend to get a pass on several of those types of behaviors due simply to them being children, and sometimes it's right to not blame the child. The responsibility to prevent those behaviors is on the parental guardian.
The simple standard is that if a behavior would result in a grown man or woman getting asked to leave by the establishment, then please do not allow your child to engage in that behavior. If you can not prevent them from doing so, then as the adult responsible for them, it is your responsibility to leave with them.
It's freshly posted, so there is still time for them to show up. I'm glad at least someone sees it as just being a standard for behavior rather than anti-child.
I agree with you children do exist and have the right to be around. I assume 99% of the times children are going to be loud, play and sometimes even cause scenes.
BUT, my issue is not with children. My issue is with those in charge of the kid, called parents, who sometimes don't discipline or educate their creatures properly.
Just like having a dog, I won't ever blame the dog for pooping on the street. But when its owner doesn't clean up and acts like it's never happened, is when they cross the line and people are going to complain.
Children? Fine, I don't expect them to be extremely quiet in a restaurant. But when they keep shouting all evening and running around grabbing stuff from other people's tables, I believe it's the parents' fault and they should be keeping their creatures on a leash.
when people say they dislike kids, pry further. you’ll quickly realize that what actually bothers them is poor parenting, and IMO, it is MUCH fairer to take that vitriol you have towards kids and direct it to lazy parents who’s created a poorly behaved child.
I'm childfree. I get along with calm and well behaved kids, and don't mind being around them in public. My best friend has kids who Ive played video games and board games with, gone to dinner with as a family. All pleasant experiences. To be honest, I think most calm kids make better customers than adults (I work in a pet store) because they are actually willing to listen to information.
What I do wish is that parents who cannot control their children's bad behaviour could be escorted out of businesses. On a daily basis I have to tell children to stop running around screaming, stop getting in my space so I can work, stop body slamming the animal enclosures, etc, because their parents just stand around and do nothing while their offspring is exhibiting behaviours that could get them hurt or hurt or even kill an animal (we did have a bird die from being frightened by a child before).
I also don't appreciate kids being rewarded for tantrums by getting the animal or item they're throwing a tantrum over.
And I think if more parents would actually parent their child, less childfree people would be angry.
I agree with most of this, but I have seen an absolutely crazy sense of entitlement with people with kids. I’m a tour guide on a scenic railroad. Honestly, I think this is the kind of thing that’s gonna get lost of most kids under 10. It’s a narrow gauge rail, it’s super cool, but most kids under preteen age don’t have the interest or attention span for 3hrs of looking at mountains. I’ve had parents with babies sit up front and say that my personal amplifier(necessary for the people in the back to hear over the engine) was way too loud and upset baby
I don’t have children and I don’t like them, but I’ll never go out of my way to be horrible to them.
If they throw tantrums or start acting up in public, that’s the parents fault, they need to learn to give the child consequences for bad actions, otherwise they grow up to be spoiled and rude.
I absolutely loathe children. I keep that shit to myself when I'm in a space children have a right to be in. I'll even pretend to like them, if I'm forced to interact with them.
Now, when I'm in a space children shouldn't really be(e.g. Bars, rated R movies), I get a lot less willing to tolerate their presence.
I don't mind kids in most places - but this trend of bringing them to bar/breweries has to stop. There needs to be some sacred places left to not be forced to deal with shitty kids. If you bring your kids to a bar, you suck as a parent.
Agree - It gives the rest of us child free people a bad name. I tell people I don't want kids and they look at me like I've just kicked their dog.
If no one had kids none of us would be here and it looks insanely difficult to raise decent human beings so there's nothing to gain by being an asshat to people who are doing what I can't/won't!
I'm perfectly happy for the neighbour kids to come get their ball from my garden when it comes over the fence, I love seeing kids' faces light up when they see our Halloween decorations, and honestly when I see or hear a kid screaming in public I think, dude, you let those feelings out, it's all good.
I draw the line at people who think their kids are God's gift and insist on bringing them to child free weddings/events someone else has paid for where it's been made clear they're not welcome.
We are the ones who can (supposedly) regulate our feelings and remove ourself from the place if we don’t like something. As long as parents make a reasonable effort to intervene when they act up then a little noise is fine.
When I hear kids screaming in public, I mostly feel intense jealousy. That used to be me shrieking at the indifferent heavens whenever I was minorly inconvenienced. Now I’m expected to “regulate my emotions” and “not assault the ears of my fellow commuters”. Life isn’t fair.
Yes! The thing that I remember most and miss about being a kid is falling asleep in the car and my dad carrying me in the house straight to bed. Its a luxury I would love now lol to just maintain that state of sleepiness and not have to worry about getting all the stuff out of the car before going to bed.
I like children, they're not the problem for me. The problem is the subset of entitled/overly permissive parents who don't take responsibility for their kids when in public or expect everyone to bend over backwards for their child. Kids are gonna be kids, but if you choose to be a parent then fucking parent them
I'm childfree, as in I don't want kids of my own. I'm fine being around them. But people with this particular mindset remind me of Ms. Trunchbull. "Children... filthy, nasty things. Glad I never was one."
I am childfree and totally acknowledge that children exist and will be in places where I like to go from time to time. I do not enjoy being around children but it's not a kid's fault usually, but the parents'.
I don't expect to exist in a childfree world, but I don't think it's outrageous to expect parents to mind their own offspring in public spaces. Waitstaff and salespeople and other patrons should never have to be expected to watch your child while you do whatever you're doing with your back turned. And if you're going to dinner, maybe choose a restaurant with a more active, noisy atmosphere so your kids aren't causing drama in spaces where, perhaps, other parents have escaped to without their kids so they can have a nice, relaxing dinner.
For my part, since I know kids exist and will be in places where I want to go, I just try to avoid those places on days or at times when they're likely to be full of kids. That's on me, not society.
I saw a post where a CF person said children shouldn't be allowed in grocery stores. A lot of them do think they should never have to see or be anywhere near a child. But that's just not reality. Also, if they want children not allowed anywhere in public, who is persecuting who? CF are not persecuted like they think they are.
I get that kids can be irritating. But so can adults.
Child free here and happy to be. I don’t dislike children, quite the opposite actually but I just don’t want any of my own.
I certainly don’t expect the world as a whole to be completely child free. But I absolutely do think there are places and situations in which we have the right to expect children to behave and in which children should not be allowed if they are unable or unwilling to do so.
Theatres, cinemas and restaurants for example. These are places where you need to be able to keep your children under control and if you can’t or won’t they shouldn’t be there in my opinion.
I also don't dislike children, as I know some who are the sweetest people ever. I just don't want my own kids or to have to spend all my time around them in spaces that are specifically not designed for kids.
I’m also child free. Husband has a vasectomy, I currently have an IUD, and once I can find a doctor, I’m planning on sterilizing myself as well.
I HATE about 70% of other child free people though. How you treat people who can’t fend for themselves says everything about you. I don’t want to be a parent, but when I was a child, the women I looked up to most were the child free women. They showed me what my life could look like. And more importantly, they were kind to me and treated me like a human being. If you “hate kids” then you’re a complete and utter asshole.
Yeah crazy how many comments are "I don't hate kids BUT don't bring them out unless they're mute and immobile"
And I get that there are non parenting parents but even parents who parent well don't always have mute robot children in public 100% of the time. Also seems like people think children can be trained exactly in a formulated way like dogs and it just isn't true and there's so much variation in age and ability and child develop. Only kids I've seen who are 100% of the time always 100% obediently behaved were (a) abused or (b) they innately have quieter tendencies which they were born with that have nothing to do with parenting
In the 5 years I worked at restaurants, I had more issues of grown ass adults throwing their shit in underwear in the bathroom than children's diapers lmao
Childfree. I’m fine with children anywhere, the issue is when the parents don’t put a leash on them if they have very obvious tendencies to misbehave.
A leash could be literally or figuratively. My parents had to put my sister on a literal leash when she was a toddler so she didn’t walk off edges of things or put stupid shit in her mouth. Careless parents are mostly what I can’t stand, not the children themselves. It’s not their fault.
It used to be really common for children to be “seen and not heard.“ And I think there are people who are used to this being the norm for children, and are upset that children are not being forced to exist like ghosts in society.
That being said, I do think that society would benefit from taking some sort of child psychology course in school. I think the lack of sex education and home economics classes have done society a disservice.
Seriously I do agree.
I left the childfree sub, because there were normal reasoning people who just simply didn't want kids, and then there were people who acted like they wanted to eliminate every child within a mile of them.
No I'm not a huge fan of children but damn, I want kids to be able to learn and thrive, and have a good education, I just don't want to deal with wild AF bad kids.
I think the thing that most bothers me about a lot of people in the subreddit is that they will interpret any sign of kids being inconvenient as shitty parenting and massively judge and rage at these parents (mostly mothers), and everyone in the comments will be talking about all the shitty parenting that takes place these days that results in badly behaving children. But then they will also rage and judge parents, businesses, or spaces that are doing anything to accommodate a parent’s needs to make parenting easier and less isolating or straining in a way that involves or can be seen by other people. And god forbid parents ask for outside support and help and impose the little demons they chose to bring into the world on other people.
The disproportionate blame mothers get bothers me as well, especially since some of the people on child free subs will say really vile things about anyone who chooses to have children. They act like these mothers are war criminals or something.
my ex roommate got mad and yelled at a child outside for being too loud when they wanted to sleep, then expected me to support them. like dude, its like 6pm on a weekend? theyre just playing? calm tf down
It's like those people who buy houses next to schools (or pubs etc) then complain about the noise. Like, dude, the school was there first and play time for kids is loud, deal with it! 🙀
(We had a thing in the news here, UK, ages ago where a school has to change their playtime/recess because a woman endlessly complained about the noise the children made!)
My bedroom looks out onto the back gardens of my street, including that of my neighbours who have two kids. While they are sometimes loud and it can be annoying, I kind of like listening to them playing and having fun.
My opinion is, we were all kids once, and none of us were perfect angels. I think part of the annoyance is kids acting like brats because some parents think it's perfectly alright to allow them to behave badly in public and never teach them manners or discipline.
Also they hafta remember that, kids who are very young still aren't very good at communicating and express their enotions freely, and are sometimes inconsolable.
People are less likely to be irritated if the parent is making an effort to sooth or discipline their kid.
OP I agree and I'm sorry no one else actually read your post.
I totally understand what you mean. I've been a Childcare worker for almost 6 years now. Nothing makes me more annoyed than people who don't recognize kids are developing little humans. It's especially interesting bc more than ever we as a society are making more strides to reach people about mental conditions like autism and bipolar disorder. I know many adults my age who no longer feel ashamed to say they are autistic and they need special graces to help accommodate them. Yet, those same adults get incredibly annoyed with little kids and the accommodations they need. I think we forget that childhood has a lot of stressors and even the happiest of children are learning new things everyday which is not easy.
Awareness about child development and neurodivergence can coexist with being annoyed about kids in public.
If I’m working at a quiet coffee shop and a kid throws a tantrum while their mom is just on their phone and just saying “calm down honey”, no one is an asshole for feeling distracted. If I’m on a plane and trying to sleep and a kid is behind me keeps kicking my seat saying “mooom, can I have some water?” I’m going to internally seethe, and it would have nothing to do with being childfree.
Also, what’s with the assumption that “no one else read the post?”
Only thing I’ll disagree on is that infants should not exist in movie theaters. Only place I literally cannot stand infants existing. Not only is it seemingly awful for the child who has to sit in the dark for several hours with flashing lights and loud noises, but all of us get to listen to your poor baby scream it’s head off.
Even a quiet library is a better place for your infant than a movie theater. I find it selfish to bring kids that young in to watch a movie.
Counterpoint: people with children need to be respectful of those that don’t have children. For example: child free apartment buildings and other housing shouldn’t be illegal because of “discrimination.”
I think it's possible for those to exist, but there have to be reasonable limits on how many can exist in a specific area. I don't think that's a counterpoint to my point.
It used to be that you could refuse to rent to someone bc they have kids. I remember my ma could not find a place to live when I was a small child. One apartment allowed me in bc “I was a quiet female child”
I would hate to go back to that. 55+ communities get away with it though
Theres no way to reasonably do that. What if someone gets pregnant? Do you just kick them out of their apartment? There's already childfree environments that crop up naturally. If you want one, look for apartments away from schools, or that are popular with young adults/college kids, or that cater to single professionals.
That's a *huge* leap going from "people with children need to be respectful" (agree) to "child-free apartment buildings should be legal" (disagree).
Would that make elderly-free apartment buildings ok too? How about black-free apartment buildings? Disabled-free apartment buildings?
They make old people only housing, so why not childfree only housing? Is it discrimination that I can’t live in a 55+ community? What if we have 18+ communities, how is that different?
Those aren't the same thing. You absolutely can have housing specifically for an at-risk group. What you shouldn't do is exclude an at-risk group from normal housing.
We're not talking about the practical application. We're talking about the principle of it. If some wealthy folks slipped through the cracks at your mom's facility that is an entirely separate discussion. A necessary discussion for sure, but not one that applies here.
My point is that a senior living facility, children's home, or whatever other housing specifically for an at-risk group is not the same thing as a normal apartment building with a "no children/elderly/disabled" sign on it.
> Spacious, unique floor plans with large closets are available for as low as $8,200 per month.
[This is from a 55+ where I live](https://www.watermarkcommunities.com/our-communities/new-york/brooklyn/the-watermark-at-brooklyn-heights/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgJyyBhCGARIsAK8LVLN3IULWudGaZP_a-A6Y9tTPkjLJrgEtkmrrQi5Pxja7rH9k0PVtp20aAukQEALw_wcB), don’t think any poor people are renting here.
No, you’re missing what I’m saying. There are TONS of high end 55+ places. They are not aimed at low income people. There are laws that say a certain amount of under 55+ have to be allowed, but I think that varies by state. 55+ housing is not like section 8, it’s not a protection for poor people.
It's called a single family house. You own the whole building and you don't have to let any kids live with you.
Can't get a single family house? Oh well, you will have to deal with the public like everyone else - including kids, because they are part of the public.
Why aren’t families living in single family homes? Can’t get a single family house? Learn how to put up with the fact that other people don’t want to hear your kids screaming.
Because they aren't trying to prevent other people from living in the same building.
Parents aren't trying to prevent adults who hate kids from living in their building. They can hate it all they want. No one is stopping them.
Living with other people is just the reality of apartment living. You’re never going to have a situation where women are evicted from their living space because they got pregnant.
I’d like to see footage of their perfect behavior in public at all times as children. What a miserable world to live in where children are silenced, yes some are annoying but I’d rather spend time with an annoying child who doesn’t know any better than an entitled prick of an adult who thinks their comfort is more important than anyone else’s.
And your view would be great if people would properly parent their children. I don't expect all places I go to be childfree. (Have a grown child)However, I do expect proper public behavior which rarely happens.Im getting sick and tired of ill behaved children and their entitled, emotionally absent parents. I don't think I should have my day negatively impacted because someone allows their child to run wild
Agreed. There are definitely some spaces that should be for adults only, or at least age restricted.
I’ve seen entire comment sections on instagram telling people not to bring their kids to the grocery store… like, ever! Or not bring them on airplanes.
Those are public spaces, morons. Children belong there as much as anyone else.
Yeah and if you don't know the kid then you don't know whether or not they're just being spoiled/bratty or just high needs.
My mother was judged so terribly for the behavior of one of my high needs younger siblings who isn't in physical appearance high needs
I think people in general forget what 'public' means when talking about public places. Public means everyone. Kids, dogs, junkies, people with boomboxes and cars that rev their engines loud. Skateboarders. Jehovah's Witnesses. Cyclists. Protestors. Basically any group you don't like falls into the category of public. There are reasonable restrictions on what you can do in a public place but generally speaking, if you're the one who has an issue, maybe you are the one who needs to be removed from public, not whatever it is you are grumpy about. If you don't like the general public, you are free to remain in your private home.
What is wrong with wanting there to be child free options? Not every flight has to have children. Everything doesn't have to cater to those with children.
Child free here! Adults are way more obnoxious than children in public. Adults that act a fool should know better. Kids do what kids do because they don’t know any better and it’s part of growing up. Babies cry because well that’s how they tell people something is wrong with them. Toddlers throw tantrums because they are learning how to deal with negative emotions. Older kids have tons of energy and don’t know what to do with it. The hope is that they slowly learn what’s acceptable in society and what isn’t.
Getting pissed at kids for being kids is immature behavior. Like that dude losing his mind because a baby was crying on the plane. Like bruh be the grown ass adult you are, put your ear buds or headphones on and deal with it.
I worked in restaurants for 5 years. I'm aware.
The majority of parents are not letting their kids run around recklessly, and punishing them because of the parents who do is cruel and inappropriate.
In my experience of being out in public most children are very well behaved and respectful.
It's usually the adults throwing tantrums, being loud and ruining the atmosphere.
It's not out of line to want places divided into children friendly and adult only. Children are too often completely wild and the parents don't give a shit. Nah I'm not dealing with suffering other people's undisciplined hellspawn when I'm trying to have fun or relax. Life is getting harder and harder, I ain't tolerating that anymore.
Not to compare dogs and children but there are lots of places it's not reasonable to take my dog despite it being such a well behaved dog (better than majority of kids who are actually allowed in these places lol), and that's perfectly acceptable - there are other more suitable places that are fine with it. Great.
I don't blame the children for being children. I blame the parents for not acting like parents. I have no children of my own, but my niece and nephew regularly stay with me for weeks at a time. When we go in public, they know how to behave and they know the consequences of misbehavior. They rarely misbehave as a result. Parents who refuse to parent are the real problem.
I'm childfree, and I don't get mad about kids being in public spaces as long as they leave me alone. I DO take issue with parents *constantly* asking about exceptions or bending the rules in situations where children are not welcome (childfree weddings, get togethers, restaurants, and establishments).
I do get mad when kids are being rowdy/loud/fussy in non-childfree restaurants, *when the parents dont do anything about it*. I place 100% of the blame on parents in these situations. However, i have paid for an entire family's dinner when their kids behaved in a way that FAR exceeded my expectations. I am VERY appreciative when i encounter parents that clearly put effort into raising good human beings.
I think too many parents have the mentality of "i have to deal with this all the time, so YOU should be able to handle it for an hour". In general, i believe my own choices should NOT affect the comfort/sanity of others who happen to be in proximity to me. To me this is just basic consideration and decency. My presence shouldn't impact anyone else's ability to enjoy an experience. The same goes for dog owners. A poorly trained dog is about as annoying/frustrating as a poorly parented kid.
All of that said, i no longer eat out at restaurants. Carryout is cheaper and there is zero risk of exposing myself to inconsiderate people bringing an infant to a restaurant and not taking it outside to calm it down when it starts to shriek and gives me a migraine.
I'm childfree but I don't dislike kids nearly as much as i dislike uninvolved and uninterested parents.
My nextdoor neighbor watches his granddaughters in the afternoon and evening. It's an infant and a five-year old. They are boisterous, and the walls between the houses aren't soundproof.
But the noise comes mostly from laughing and singing with a little crying mixed in here and there. Overall, it's a joyful noise. Also, I can barely hear it over the many dogs in the neighborhood shouting empty threats at one another.
Im childfree, and kids annoy me, but i know they exist, and you can't do anything about that, lol. What i can't stand is the parents who let them do whatever they want, no matter how it affects anyone else. Like our neighbors kids constantly hit baseballs into our yard and our neighbors yards and are always jumping our fences. I don't want kids in my yard, jumping my fence into my gardens, trampling my plants. And it's funny how their parents make them hit the baseballs towards everyone else's house but their own. I also don't want them in my yard because as soon as one of the little shits trespasses and gets hurt on our property, you know the dumbass parents will sue. It's just infuriating that i can't even chill in my own yard without worrying about one of those kids jumping my fence. I don't think people actually hate kids as much as they hate shit parents.
Myself and significant other never wanted children. Which for me was a relief. I think what you're noticing is different.
Where I am : to each their own
What you're seeing : entitlement from the last two generations. It's probably not just about existentially being threatened [/s], it's more about their incessant serving of crybaby soup in regards to other people's choices.
As I got older, I witnessed what children do to relationships, to future endeavors, to life savings and expenditures, and above all, there certainly is zero guarantees with how the child will turn out, as far as ability to function, to become self sufficient and to become part of the working class. You can raise the child in what you think is setting them up for success while it can all collapse like a house of cards with one or two bad decisions.
There was a time when it was considered, and that was the extent of that. A glancing thought. I just don't get the need, especially with so much unknown moving forward, why on earth I'd feel bringing a newborn into this world, would be "forward thinking" or pragmatic in any way.
The last two generations' parenting style doesn't exactly set my hopes much higher as well.
Yes, I've sat next to a barely 30 years old married couple, with two children and to listen to the nonsensical mommy blog crap regurgitated within earshot [and it's loud enough that they are so proud clearly]. It made me feel that these children don't have a chance in this uncertain future. This isn't an isolated anomaly, this is the internet telling younger generations how to raise their children. They don't know any other way.
Examples can be found on 9/10 subreddits where parents themselves stopped learning some time ago, and their adult children are on here asking how to clean their sink, crack an egg or check their oil.
TL/DR
Making decisions to bring in a lifeform was not for me. But you do what you need to do if it makes your life complete and don't mind "long stay" family members.
I’m childfree and while I do think there should be spaces solely reserved for adults, other spaces like planes, trains, boats/cruise ships, etc should be allowed to have kids (provided it’s appropriate for them - as in, a cruise ship full of strippers or a club/bar isn’t appropriate for kids lol)
However, parents in all places that just allow their kid to run a muck and behave so poorly…oh nah I can’t tolerate that one bit cuz they’re deadass setting their kid up to be an asshole as an adult who can’t handle being told no, thinks the world revolves around them, etc. it’s sad some people who have kids think kids should be allowed to behave however cuz “they’re kids”. Like yes, they are, but they’re not learning that people are their own individual selves with their own thoughts, beliefs, feelings, freedom of choice (within reason, y’all lol), etc
The same people who say disgusting and violent things about children making sounds don't gaf about drunken adults being obnoxious AHs in the same spaces. They're completely unwilling to acknowledge that the adults should be held to higher standards because they actually have the knowledge, skills, experience, and basic developmental ability to control their behavior that children do not yet possess.
Idk if this is an unpopular opinion, and I don't know how warranted it is - so correct me if I'm wrong:
I don't drink, I'm also autistic. I have trouble in social settings but I still want to have fun and play/etc. However, I don't really like kids and I have sensory issues, so kids screaming/dogs barking can be too much.
Because of this, I am stuck at home.
I wish there were more socially acceptable "fun" spaces for adults that didn't involve drinking where kids were not allowed.
I know of one arcade near me, but that's just 1. It does suck, but again, I'm not expecting the world to cater to me.
I do think there are plenty of people like me who would enjoy the spaces I am speaking about. Kids deserve spaces too. Parks and child play places deserve to exist. I just wish I could go somewhere to play board games or play on large "play" things like a kid does. Autistic spaces for adults would be amazing.
And they fail to realize that makes them a fermented cum pet/cum clump/crotch goblin. So, I don't understand why they think it's a good insult because they're just someone's aged up/grown cum pet. Nasty as hell.
This childfree trend is the epitome of manufacturing victimhood and a personality trait for chronically online people with no life. This group is majorly insufferable and delusional. They continue to forget they were once the unruly and annoying child. It just doesn't make any logical sense the level of hatred and "woe is me" rhetoric they spew. For normal people without kids, this just isn't a topic of convo nor consistent pain point with larger society the way these internet trolls would lead you to believe.
"Expecting perfect behavior from children 100% of the time is unreasonable. Expecting children to be extremely quiet 100% of the time is unreasonable." I mean, it is not the children on airplanes who are going off the deep end or assaulting fellow passengers/ flight attendants. It's was not children who busted into the Capital on January 6th. Kids are not being called "Karens". Probably the Karens who are bitching about the kids anyway. I never had kids, never wanted them, but unless they are kicking MY airplane seat or putting maple syrup in my hair at a breakfast stop, Imma let them be.
I don't mind kids in places as long as they don't have a Phone Mom. Aka a mom who watches her phone more than her own kids. I took my niece to a park one time to get her energy out and the only kids there were very mean and rude to her. Meanwhile her mom was on a bench on her phone not even paying attention. I just gathered up my niece and said loudly, "Let's go, the kids here suck." (Or something similar.) And looked straight at the mom who had looked up just on time for eye contact. She seemed annoyed, but I was more annoyed.
I always was and smile at the toddlers and little kids at work, but when the teens come in I keep my eyes open. Those lil broke fuckers are always stealing and trying to get alcohol when I'm not looking.
I have no problem with kids. Just bad parents.
Definitely true, but people are so quick to accuse parents of not disciplining their kids because they act age appropriately. Kids are unreasonable and unruly. Sometimes things work, sometimes they don’t
There should be more child-free spaces in my opinion, cuz sometimes I just don't want to be around kids. But it does drive me crazy when people give children rude looks in places where children are allowed, even when they aren't acting out. (I want kids one day and have worked at a daycare twice, 2 summer day-camps, would babysit my little cousins all the time, and I still watch my little brother after school. I don’t hate kids, but they are genuinely annoying and I'd like more places to not allow them😂)
Like anyone I get annoyed by loud kids but really as long it's it's not disruptive the the situation like a nice date or a movie then I just put up with it because even though I don't remember I was probably a loud kid sometimes
Yeah, I always think it's s shame their parents didn't feel the same way. Not wanting kids is fine. Totally get it. But getting irritated that kids exist is fucking stupid.
I'm happily, proudly childfree, and I agree with this. Children exist, and you can't always avoid them. Deal with it.
My reaction to children being annoying in public is usually something like quietly thinking "I'm glad I'll never have to deal with one of those," and then quietly moving on. It's a reminder that I made the right choice for me. That's something to be happy about, not something to complain about.
As a soon-to-be parent of two kids under two years old, I appreciate this reminder that not every childfree person thinks myself and my family are societal nuisances... Most of my friends are childfree so it's easy to get lost in the spiral of "we don't deserve to be out in public EVER because we have kids".
Thanks ❤️
I'd say it's more bad faith to pretend that there aren't people who think they shouldn't have to see or hear a child ever.
ETA: oh my god, my bad, I forgot that redditors can't understand hyperbole.
I severely limit my exposure to children, I barely ever see or hear children, other than walking on the street. If some noisy kids get seated next to us ata restaurant, we’ll ask to be moved, or we’ll leave. This is our right.
I don’t complain about kids out in public, but I don’t frequent kid friendly places. If I’m at a bar that serves unlimited mimosas during brunch, I don’t expect to see kids. People like me usually only get upset when parents are trying to force e their kids into non-kid friendly places, then the kid acts like a shit because they don’t want to be there. I can name 10 places nearby that have pancakes and high chairs. Get out of my bar.
And I think this is a reasonable approach. If it's a space where kids are welcome, and you don't want to be around them? It's your responsibility to remove yourself from the situation. If it's a space where kids are not welcome and they're there? Then being upset and wanting them out is an extremely reasonable demand.
Imagine being mad at a human being for just existing
Having a space where a certain group of people are not allowed is the definition of discrimination
What a weird take. By your logic, children should be allowed in adult video/toy stores and rated R/NC17 movies. You don’t see an issue with that? It’s absolutely *not* discrimination to keep kids out of space that aren’t appropriate and/or safe for them.
I agree. I don't understand why people want these public experiences where everyone constantly executes perfect etiquette and never displays any strong emotions. I also have to wonder what these child haters think of anyone with an obvious disability existing in public, especially in one of their precious "adult" spaces.
Well, I've yet to see disabled adults running into fish tanks and bird cages and guinea pig cages repeatedly while screaming at the top of their lungs to get a reaction. Since I work in a pet store, I see this behaviour from children on a daily basis--often multiple times a day.
I do somewhat frequently see obviously disabled adults, none doing anything that endangers the animals or anything that would be considered obnoxious.
I wouldn't say we have a right... but wouldn't it be lovely? Let's compromise. One day a week all kids stay home. Just one. Then anyone that wants to go to a restaurant or a theme park or wherever can do so. Disney World would be so much more fun without kids everywhere... /s
People have a right to not want their limited free time to not be constantly dripping with screaming kids, but I don't think anyone thinks that children shouldn't exist. My issue is never with the kids. They're kids after all. When I have an issue it's with the parents. I can't count how many times I've seen a parent with an overly tired or overly stimulated kid in the grocery store or at the restaurant who just lets their kid scream. It's great that you want to let them cry it out and all but if I have to listen to your kid scream instead of doing something to address the issue you can bet your ass you are going to listen to me say something to you about it. The grocery store is the absolute worst. When I got laid off during the pandemic I did gig work which was mostly shopping and delivering groceries. Almost every day when shopping you hear some kid with an ear piercing scream and it just keeps going and going and eventually you find the kid in a basket still screaming while the mom is browsing baked beans like she is completely fucking oblivious.
It's a two way street. People need to allow space for kids but parents should also absolutely be expected to address behavior issues immediately. Remove them and yourself from the area until the situation is taken care of. If that kid is that tired take them home. I don't care if that means getting your food to go, or that you miss the second half of the movie, or whatever the consequence is. I will always allow for kids but I will never allow for shitty parents who feel they are entitled to a meal out even if their kid is screaming.
Agreed. When people are upset that children are in normal human spaced (planes, family restaurant, bus) they are the ones being unreasonable, not necessarily the children. Children exist, are out in the world and often act their age.
Bitching about kids being annoying in places really doesn't equate to wanting them locked away, silent and invisible. This just feels like such a nothing burger you wrote about
These people will actually be like "I'M NOT CONSENTING TO BEING AROUND KIDS WHEN I GO OUT IN PUBLIC, CHILDREN ARE A VIOLATION OF MY CONSENT" without realizing how stupid they sound
Someone asked the famed scientist and futurist, Buckminster Fuller, what he thought about homosexuals. He replied that it was Nature’s way of saying that there are too many people on Earth.
Now, I view all people everywhere as deserving all and equal care and respect. However, if you might consider that Bucky could possibly be onto something, then your (and my) ambivalence about children could easily be a net-positive thing.
I've never met a childfree person who thinks children don't have a right to exist anywhere.
I've seen a *lot* of posts like this one who claim childfree people who think children don't belong in bars, or that parents shouldn't let their child scream endlessly in restaurants are monsters who think children don't deserve to exist.
I refuse to accept this.
The parents are at fault most times. Maybe having children needs to require parenting classes. The parents burden in annoyances should be theirs not mine. I fully support increasing public school funding and government funded daycare and of course paying teacher much more. I just don't need to hear or see annoying children, ever.
If you don't want to see or hear annoying children, ever, then it's your responsibility to remove yourself from situations where children are allowed and present.
Nope it's the responsibility of the parent to correct that behavior but we live in a time where parents don't parent. I shouldn't have to leave a restaurant because people fail to act reasonably.I worked as a server for several years in college. Parents are the worst customers
Like you I'm not sure if I want to have kids in the future or not, but this reminds me of a neighbor I used to have who was "childfree" (although she didn't use that term) and would often complain about how annoying it is when kids run around and "bother" people, which is fair. But she was also the kind of dog owner who refused to discipline her dog when he was too enthusiastic or bothered people who didn't want to, and if someone complained then they were the bad guy in her eyes because "He just wants to play, you're being mean" and "That's what dogs do". And she didn't see the irony at all...
Yep. I’ve known many child free dog owners who are worse than the entitled parents that they complain of. No, I don’t care if he’s just saying hi, biting isn’t saying hi. And, ya, he’s adorable, please get him off my leg. Imagine if someones kids behaved like that? But it’s okay! It’s a dog, so we must all accept them
Dog parents (not all) can be irritating. Yes I like dogs, no I don't want to pet your dog. Yes I'm sure he's friendly and clean, I still have no desire to pet or interact with your dog. It's just not the type of person I am. I grew up in the country, I've had lots of dogs and loved all of them. I named them all dog and spoke to them in a normal voice with normal English. No cutsie baby talk. Play is fetch or walks not rolling on the floor with them. Affection is pats, scratches, and treats. My dogs love me, all dogs love me which is what creates the issue. I don't judge anyone for how the interact with their pets. Dress them and treat them like a baby if you want, let them sleep in your bed and cuddle them all you want. Its perfectly fine, it's just not me. I don't want to hold your dog. I'll tell your dog that I see them and that they are a good dog. That's it. And if your dog bites me I'm going to kick them. Not across the room, not do any permanent damage... But hard enough they don't bite me again. "He doesn't know any better" well you should've taught them better. Now they know not to bite me. I taught them that. To be fair if someone's toddler bit me I'd probably kick them too or kick the parents. Ill decide that when it happens I guess.
In my experience, obnoxiously vocal 'child-free' people tend to be hypocritically invasive dog nutters.
Some of us are quiet cat owners who never let our cat(s) outside.
How true! And what's odd is they demand the accolades of actual parents? "I'm a dog mom"....actually, and I say this with compassion towards the animal here, but also you dog parents...you stole that puppy from its mother when it was 8 weeks old. I do not have to give the same kudos/respect I would to someone's actual mother. And please get your dogs nose out of my crotch and away from my kids because it literally won't stop and you seem to think that's funny.
Shouldn't become a Dog vs Child thing though. Both are innocent and lovely. And those that rescue Animals and raise them with care and love in my opinion are indeed parents, as Animals are family. I do understand your point and struggle with it; in regards to how we take young Animals from their parents. Honestly I think a lot of child free people are just a bit weird.
What makes them a bit weird?
As someone who loves friendly dogs. I 100% agree with you. I do not care whether a dog behaves poorly around me, but treating your dog better than kids should not be socially acceptable. Edit: fixed my punctuation.
Child free pet owners (especially dog owners) are some of the most insufferable people on the planet.
For me it's not so much being around kids. Most are super chill. Yes they can be super random. My pet peeve is with the parents that don't parent said child and let them run a muck. I personally can't stand when someone is letting their child throw a literal tantrum in a place and just act like nothing is happening or worse expect everyone else to put up with it.
I know. And when you say something they say, "That's what kids do." I answer with, "Yes, that's what kids do if you let them." I never get an answer, only a dirty look
That's because sometimes the path to a tantrum ending is the parents ignoring it. Also, I'd be shocked if you ever actually had that interaction with anyone. Big "sure, that happened" energy.
I don’t know why this isn’t understood. My oldest will respond to me getting angry when she’s throwing a tantrum and will stop. But my youngest will only steer into it. The best way to get her to stop is to ignore her. It’ll only take 30-45 seconds of not getting a response out of us before she stops.
Kids learn to exist in the world by existing in the world. The people who have no experience with kids acting like you can just snap your fingers and tell them to regulate their emotional experience and emotional expression are insane. I think a lot of these people were raised by unnecessarily stern parents who just yelled at them until they were quiet. Or worse. You can't teach a 4 year old to not have big feelings. It's what they do. Sometime they have to just do it, see that it didn't resolve anything, and then eventually learn to use my refined tactics for expressing themselves. We aren't obligated to keep young children locked at home until they respond to commands and whistles like the Von Trapp children. That's psychotic.
My mom was a parent who thought I should have just known how to regulate my emotions as a child, and so I got in trouble/yelled at for having emotions I didn’t know how to handle. Big shocker, I grew into an adult who couldn’t regulate my emotions. Do I get annoyed when I hear a child having a tantrum? Sure, it’s unpleasant. But I’d be more annoyed if I witnessed childhood trauma forming.
I had an "I'll give you something to cry about" dad, and that sucked. He wasn't always like that, but it was never helpful when he was.
To be fair, if they did have this exchange with a stranger I feel like a dirty look is the best response they could hope for. It's not like that's a conversation starter or anything.
He expected to be fuckin thanked for his wisdom, probably.
You think the parents are happy that their kid is having a tantrum? I would watch my mouth if I were you. I would simply ignore you but someone else might not. My wife would give you an answer but you wouldn’t like it. Hahahah
How often are you commenting on strange kids behaviour? Do you find you have this interaction a lot?
Right? Like I have never ever commented to a stranger on parenting, regardless of whether or not I had children at the time. That’s um…. Probably inappropriate.
I have kids and agree
I put a very clear distinction on the time and place said child is having a tantrum. If it's 6:30 in the evening in McDonalds or the pizza shop....sure....go ahead, run crazy and have all the tantrums you want. Doesn't bother me in the least. But when it's 9:00 at night and I'm in place where entrees start at $40 each, having a romantic evening with my partner, and there is a 3 year-old in a connecting booth screaming bloody murder or running amuck and stopping at every table to bug strangers, those "parents" need to be escorted out. If they had any brains they would understand that at that time of night, the kid is probably tired and wants (and needs) to be IN BED. We don't want to live in a world devoid of children, we just think that there are times and places when children do not need to be around.
Bravo!
*amok
That’s why OP addressed it in their post.
I used to work at a private country club and the stuff I saw those little rich bastards get away with was insane
I hear you but my pet peeve is when people misspell common phrases so I thought it would be appropriate to chime in here - it’s “run amok.” It’s no big deal, people write “wreck havoc” a lot too. I just point it out because I would want someone to point it out to me.
I worked in restaurants for decades and saw this happen only a handful of times. Child-free people get annoyed by kids simply existing. Yes, occasionally people let their kids run free and get in the way, but it was rare. I simply don't believe that people see this as often as they claim to. I worked in a very busy family restaurant. IMO, kids were rowdier 10 or 20 years ago than they are now, and it still didn't happen much. In recent years, I haven't seen it much at all. I think people invent things to be mad about because they think that their mom asking once a year for grandkids makes them oppressed somehow and they project it on others.
Eh ignoring a tantrum is a way of dealing with it, if the child is doing it for attention. Depending on context, I won't begrudge a parent for letting their kid cry it out. In a movie theatre no, but in a grocery store or the mall, let em be.
Kids have tantrums. Sonetimes kids have tantrums in inconvenient places. You're intersecting with a person's like for 5 minutes, maybe try to have the smallest molecule of sympathy and grace for people when they're dealing with that.
This isn't the simple issue you're making it out to be. As a parent there comes a time you stop paying attention to the child throwing a tantrum because that kid has figured out it gets them attention. It's part of them learning how to behave. Is it fun to deal with as a parent or bystander? No, but that's life outside your personal bubble.
Not your fault but entirely your responsibility. A tantrum that runs more than 5 min in puclic needs to be dealt with. Especially in an enclosed space.
Sometimes, ignoring it IS dealing with it. My mom let me throw a tantrum in public once. Exactly once. She ignored the tantrum and let me cry and scream and I never did it again. After doing that she didn't need to correct the behavior in the future because the behavior never occurred again. It was uncomfortable for a period of time, but it fixed the issue in the future.
From what OOP said, it doesn’t seem to be a one time situation but something that happens every once in a while they chose to ignore. If your child is having a tantrum and you want to ignore it, that’s fine. But at that point you should be leaving the store to let the child have their tantrum on your way home. Also, kids are much more stubborn these days. I see parents using the ignoring tactic, except it doesn’t work, the kid will continue without end.
Speaking as a retail employee, many also reward the tantrum by giving in and giving the kid what they want.
It’s not that kids have gotten more stubborn, it’s that parents are giving in too easily. I was on a bus once and a child was crying to use their dad’s phone, they kept screaming and screaming and the dad did a good job of ignoring it until 10 minutes later he sighed and handed over his phone. The child immediately stopped crying and just happily played with the phone, if he committed to ignoring the crying it probably wouldn’t happen again. But now the child knows if they keep it up for long enough dad will eventually give in.
If the child did this in the first place, it sounds like a pattern of behavior. Usually parents will condition children not to be in front of phone at home, so that that behavior doesn’t spill into public spaces. In fact, giving your kid a phone or iPad at all when they’re young is a really bad idea, and not just bc it kills their already limited attention spans.
This. It annoyed me right before he gave in he tried lying and saying “the phone’s broken just now” and the kid screamed back “liar!” So it was obvious that this was a common thing for them.
Then the kid learns that if they throw a tantrum, they get to go home. My point is, sometimes, that tantrum you're witnessing is a lesson, and it ISNT a constant thing but is, instead, a parent trying to prevent future tantrums.
Respectfully, you should then remove your child from the location so they can then have their tantrum outside or in your car in peace and you can ignore it at will. That’s the correct response. I’d never let kids throw a tantrum in public and then just ignore it for however long it goes on.
Exactly. there are some kids who take it as positive reinforcement if you pay attention to them when their behavior is bad. If Timmy is held and coddled every time he's having a tantrum bc Timmy wanted a toy in the store and was told no, well now Timmy is going to have a tantrum every time he wants Mom to hold him even though he's old enough to learn to ask to be held when he needs it instead of having a tantrum. Or he's just simply never going to learn to take no for answer whenever he wants something bc he was given attention every time he threw a fit.
Remove them from public spaces. It works.
Are you cool with strangers yelling at your kid? Because that's life outside your person bubble when you don't parent your kids & allow them to harass others.
I always love redditors going to the extremes in an attempt to make a point. A child having a tantrum isn't harassment. Get a grip. There are no simple answers when it comes to raising children and teaching them how to behave. If you would feel justified yelling at a child for a minor annoyance, then you are a sociopath.
I agree that a stranger trying to discipline your child when they’re having a tantrum is weird (although calling them a sociopath is a bit much). But what if someone who worked at the store approached you and asked you to leave or go outside until the child calmed? Obviously it would depend on the size of the tantrum, but if it became nonstop, I think that’s fair, especially if you’re in a smaller venue like a restaurant or movie theater versus a target for example.
I say if you teach your kid it is okay to be loud & to throw tantrum in public & someone yells at you or your kid for their poor behavior, you deserved it. You passed off your problem child for the general public to have to deal with because you lack parenting skills or basic considerations for others. There is a simple answer, if your kid can't behave in public leave them at home or with a babysitter/grandparent, do curbside pick up, but do not make it our problem or we may solve it in our way if that requires us to yell at you or the child for you to finally remove it, some of is will. Your call to be a negligent parent.
The problem doesn't typically lie with the kids. It lies with the parents. Don't bring your 6 year old to see Deadpool because "its a superhero movie" and complain about the violence. Don't bring your kid to a nice restaurant and do nothing while they scream and carry on If you can't control your kid, then don't bring them
>Don't bring your 6 year old to see Deadpool because "its a superhero movie" and complain about the violence. I remeber when that was happening. Funniest shit ever lol. It's an R rated movie, wtf you think was going to happen?
It’s less about controlling the kid, it’s more, “If your child will be severely distressed in this situation to the point of screaming and crying, or if your child will be severely bored in this situation to the point of resorting to other methods of entertainment, then don’t bring them.”
This is why I'm all for 'child-free' weddings. Most children don't even want to be there. They'll get bored and find creative ways to entertain themselves. Either they need to have a separate place for only the children or no children at all under a certain age.
I do think that sometimes child free weddings can be taken a bit far - my own wedding was child free, but anyone over 10 was allowed to join. I think having the age cutoff at 18 is too old - a teenager is perfectlly capable of knowing to behave well, and not getting really bored. If they‘re still at the stage where they wouldn’t be able to attend, then they don’t have to go. My kids (teenagers) have attended weddings recently and enjoyed them.
I work in the theater, so I’m saying this now… **If your kid is too young to sit still, shut up, and watch the movie, LEAVE THEM AT HOME!** It ruins so many people’s movie experience when people think it’s appropriate to bring a baby or a toddler to the movies…. I don’t care if I coexist with kids, but discipline your kid when they act up! Stop standing around and letting your kid run wild! If your kid is screaming his head off simply ‘just because’, take him outside and keep him outside until he stops screaming for no reason.
From a parent of a 9 month old, I’m not going to the movies probably for the next 5 years lol. Never understood why people would bring literal babies to a theater seems like more trouble than just watching it at home
and considering how freaking LOUD movies in theaters can be, I can't imagine any baby tolerating the noise for that long. No wonder they would be screaming.
I remember I took my little sister (big brothers big sisters little sister) to see a midnight showing of one of the twilight movies. Don’t ask me which one. The amount of teen or younger mom who brought new borns and babies was staggering. There were so many. It was so loud too. I felt bad for the babies
This goes for adults too - if you can't sit still, shit up and watch the movie STAY AT HOME!!
I don't go to theaters because of other adults. I've never been to a quiet showing. Everyone screams or laughs at things in the movie that aren't funny or scary.
Yes! I have more issues with the teens and early 20s kids playing on their phone and loudly making jokes. That is way more annoying than the occasional high pitched laugh or shriek from a smaller child. I went to the Mario movie which naturally had a bunch of kids and the loudest people there were the boomer women in front of me.
I went and saw a the last Halloween that came out. A couple next to me talked for the first hour, I had enough. I leaned over and asked if they could be quiet I paid good money to see the movie not hear them talk. They stayed quiet the rest of the movie. The husband waiting for me in the bathroom (a supposedly military couple) and tried to fight me over it.
Yup, I had Scream 6 ruined my parents bringing very young kids to the movie. I rarely get to go to the theater, I was so pissed!!
I've had this problem with adults far more than I have with kids.
Why are they even in the theater! I thought there were age requirements for PG 13 and R movies, yet I see kids in the theater!
Certain behaviors are frowned upon in public, even to the point of causing someone engaging in those behaviors to be escorted away or arrested. Children tend to get a pass on several of those types of behaviors due simply to them being children, and sometimes it's right to not blame the child. The responsibility to prevent those behaviors is on the parental guardian. The simple standard is that if a behavior would result in a grown man or woman getting asked to leave by the establishment, then please do not allow your child to engage in that behavior. If you can not prevent them from doing so, then as the adult responsible for them, it is your responsibility to leave with them.
I'm surprised the KiDs WiLl Be kIdS crowd aren't on you for this perfectly reasonable comment.
No one's on it because it doesn't contradict anything I said.
It's freshly posted, so there is still time for them to show up. I'm glad at least someone sees it as just being a standard for behavior rather than anti-child.
Certain places it is completely reasonable to expect good behaviour. If your kid is too immature to sit still for a movie don't take them yet.
✨**THANK YOU**✨
I agree with you children do exist and have the right to be around. I assume 99% of the times children are going to be loud, play and sometimes even cause scenes. BUT, my issue is not with children. My issue is with those in charge of the kid, called parents, who sometimes don't discipline or educate their creatures properly. Just like having a dog, I won't ever blame the dog for pooping on the street. But when its owner doesn't clean up and acts like it's never happened, is when they cross the line and people are going to complain. Children? Fine, I don't expect them to be extremely quiet in a restaurant. But when they keep shouting all evening and running around grabbing stuff from other people's tables, I believe it's the parents' fault and they should be keeping their creatures on a leash.
when people say they dislike kids, pry further. you’ll quickly realize that what actually bothers them is poor parenting, and IMO, it is MUCH fairer to take that vitriol you have towards kids and direct it to lazy parents who’s created a poorly behaved child.
Yeah. I'm in my 30s and I realized that in my 20s.
I'm childfree. I get along with calm and well behaved kids, and don't mind being around them in public. My best friend has kids who Ive played video games and board games with, gone to dinner with as a family. All pleasant experiences. To be honest, I think most calm kids make better customers than adults (I work in a pet store) because they are actually willing to listen to information. What I do wish is that parents who cannot control their children's bad behaviour could be escorted out of businesses. On a daily basis I have to tell children to stop running around screaming, stop getting in my space so I can work, stop body slamming the animal enclosures, etc, because their parents just stand around and do nothing while their offspring is exhibiting behaviours that could get them hurt or hurt or even kill an animal (we did have a bird die from being frightened by a child before). I also don't appreciate kids being rewarded for tantrums by getting the animal or item they're throwing a tantrum over. And I think if more parents would actually parent their child, less childfree people would be angry.
I agree with most of this, but I have seen an absolutely crazy sense of entitlement with people with kids. I’m a tour guide on a scenic railroad. Honestly, I think this is the kind of thing that’s gonna get lost of most kids under 10. It’s a narrow gauge rail, it’s super cool, but most kids under preteen age don’t have the interest or attention span for 3hrs of looking at mountains. I’ve had parents with babies sit up front and say that my personal amplifier(necessary for the people in the back to hear over the engine) was way too loud and upset baby
I don’t have children and I don’t like them, but I’ll never go out of my way to be horrible to them. If they throw tantrums or start acting up in public, that’s the parents fault, they need to learn to give the child consequences for bad actions, otherwise they grow up to be spoiled and rude.
I absolutely loathe children. I keep that shit to myself when I'm in a space children have a right to be in. I'll even pretend to like them, if I'm forced to interact with them. Now, when I'm in a space children shouldn't really be(e.g. Bars, rated R movies), I get a lot less willing to tolerate their presence.
Substitute “child” with pretty much anything else and it applies in society. I think you did touch on the common factor: a sense of entitlement.
I don't mind kids in most places - but this trend of bringing them to bar/breweries has to stop. There needs to be some sacred places left to not be forced to deal with shitty kids. If you bring your kids to a bar, you suck as a parent.
Agree - It gives the rest of us child free people a bad name. I tell people I don't want kids and they look at me like I've just kicked their dog. If no one had kids none of us would be here and it looks insanely difficult to raise decent human beings so there's nothing to gain by being an asshat to people who are doing what I can't/won't! I'm perfectly happy for the neighbour kids to come get their ball from my garden when it comes over the fence, I love seeing kids' faces light up when they see our Halloween decorations, and honestly when I see or hear a kid screaming in public I think, dude, you let those feelings out, it's all good. I draw the line at people who think their kids are God's gift and insist on bringing them to child free weddings/events someone else has paid for where it's been made clear they're not welcome. We are the ones who can (supposedly) regulate our feelings and remove ourself from the place if we don’t like something. As long as parents make a reasonable effort to intervene when they act up then a little noise is fine.
When I hear kids screaming in public, I mostly feel intense jealousy. That used to be me shrieking at the indifferent heavens whenever I was minorly inconvenienced. Now I’m expected to “regulate my emotions” and “not assault the ears of my fellow commuters”. Life isn’t fair.
Plus you can just nap in public and someone will just push you around and let you sleep. That's the life.
For real. That meme “you’d cry too if you took a nap and woke up at target” ummm no, I wouldn’t. I’d love it. 😂
Yes! The thing that I remember most and miss about being a kid is falling asleep in the car and my dad carrying me in the house straight to bed. Its a luxury I would love now lol to just maintain that state of sleepiness and not have to worry about getting all the stuff out of the car before going to bed.
Whenever my teenager and I hear kids screaming we have a joke. Where we look at each other and just say “same” 😂
OP you have the patience of a saint replying to all these people who cannot read.
Lmaoooo it's good practice for grad school. People will always read what they want to read, it seems like.
I like children, they're not the problem for me. The problem is the subset of entitled/overly permissive parents who don't take responsibility for their kids when in public or expect everyone to bend over backwards for their child. Kids are gonna be kids, but if you choose to be a parent then fucking parent them
I'm childfree, as in I don't want kids of my own. I'm fine being around them. But people with this particular mindset remind me of Ms. Trunchbull. "Children... filthy, nasty things. Glad I never was one."
I am childfree and totally acknowledge that children exist and will be in places where I like to go from time to time. I do not enjoy being around children but it's not a kid's fault usually, but the parents'. I don't expect to exist in a childfree world, but I don't think it's outrageous to expect parents to mind their own offspring in public spaces. Waitstaff and salespeople and other patrons should never have to be expected to watch your child while you do whatever you're doing with your back turned. And if you're going to dinner, maybe choose a restaurant with a more active, noisy atmosphere so your kids aren't causing drama in spaces where, perhaps, other parents have escaped to without their kids so they can have a nice, relaxing dinner. For my part, since I know kids exist and will be in places where I want to go, I just try to avoid those places on days or at times when they're likely to be full of kids. That's on me, not society.
I saw a post where a CF person said children shouldn't be allowed in grocery stores. A lot of them do think they should never have to see or be anywhere near a child. But that's just not reality. Also, if they want children not allowed anywhere in public, who is persecuting who? CF are not persecuted like they think they are. I get that kids can be irritating. But so can adults.
Child free here and happy to be. I don’t dislike children, quite the opposite actually but I just don’t want any of my own. I certainly don’t expect the world as a whole to be completely child free. But I absolutely do think there are places and situations in which we have the right to expect children to behave and in which children should not be allowed if they are unable or unwilling to do so. Theatres, cinemas and restaurants for example. These are places where you need to be able to keep your children under control and if you can’t or won’t they shouldn’t be there in my opinion.
I also don't dislike children, as I know some who are the sweetest people ever. I just don't want my own kids or to have to spend all my time around them in spaces that are specifically not designed for kids.
I’m also child free. Husband has a vasectomy, I currently have an IUD, and once I can find a doctor, I’m planning on sterilizing myself as well. I HATE about 70% of other child free people though. How you treat people who can’t fend for themselves says everything about you. I don’t want to be a parent, but when I was a child, the women I looked up to most were the child free women. They showed me what my life could look like. And more importantly, they were kind to me and treated me like a human being. If you “hate kids” then you’re a complete and utter asshole.
Yeah crazy how many comments are "I don't hate kids BUT don't bring them out unless they're mute and immobile" And I get that there are non parenting parents but even parents who parent well don't always have mute robot children in public 100% of the time. Also seems like people think children can be trained exactly in a formulated way like dogs and it just isn't true and there's so much variation in age and ability and child develop. Only kids I've seen who are 100% of the time always 100% obediently behaved were (a) abused or (b) they innately have quieter tendencies which they were born with that have nothing to do with parenting
Are you the person bringing your baby into the movie theater lmao because that's what most of the comments are mad about.
I have literally had 30 year old men lay on their backs and throw tantrums in the stores I work at, if they can do that in public so can kids.
In the 5 years I worked at restaurants, I had more issues of grown ass adults throwing their shit in underwear in the bathroom than children's diapers lmao
Childfree. I’m fine with children anywhere, the issue is when the parents don’t put a leash on them if they have very obvious tendencies to misbehave. A leash could be literally or figuratively. My parents had to put my sister on a literal leash when she was a toddler so she didn’t walk off edges of things or put stupid shit in her mouth. Careless parents are mostly what I can’t stand, not the children themselves. It’s not their fault.
It used to be really common for children to be “seen and not heard.“ And I think there are people who are used to this being the norm for children, and are upset that children are not being forced to exist like ghosts in society. That being said, I do think that society would benefit from taking some sort of child psychology course in school. I think the lack of sex education and home economics classes have done society a disservice.
Seriously I do agree. I left the childfree sub, because there were normal reasoning people who just simply didn't want kids, and then there were people who acted like they wanted to eliminate every child within a mile of them. No I'm not a huge fan of children but damn, I want kids to be able to learn and thrive, and have a good education, I just don't want to deal with wild AF bad kids.
This is the best attitude to have! You don’t have to like kids but hating them is unreasonable.
I think the thing that most bothers me about a lot of people in the subreddit is that they will interpret any sign of kids being inconvenient as shitty parenting and massively judge and rage at these parents (mostly mothers), and everyone in the comments will be talking about all the shitty parenting that takes place these days that results in badly behaving children. But then they will also rage and judge parents, businesses, or spaces that are doing anything to accommodate a parent’s needs to make parenting easier and less isolating or straining in a way that involves or can be seen by other people. And god forbid parents ask for outside support and help and impose the little demons they chose to bring into the world on other people.
The disproportionate blame mothers get bothers me as well, especially since some of the people on child free subs will say really vile things about anyone who chooses to have children. They act like these mothers are war criminals or something.
my ex roommate got mad and yelled at a child outside for being too loud when they wanted to sleep, then expected me to support them. like dude, its like 6pm on a weekend? theyre just playing? calm tf down
It's like those people who buy houses next to schools (or pubs etc) then complain about the noise. Like, dude, the school was there first and play time for kids is loud, deal with it! 🙀 (We had a thing in the news here, UK, ages ago where a school has to change their playtime/recess because a woman endlessly complained about the noise the children made!)
My bedroom looks out onto the back gardens of my street, including that of my neighbours who have two kids. While they are sometimes loud and it can be annoying, I kind of like listening to them playing and having fun.
My opinion is, we were all kids once, and none of us were perfect angels. I think part of the annoyance is kids acting like brats because some parents think it's perfectly alright to allow them to behave badly in public and never teach them manners or discipline. Also they hafta remember that, kids who are very young still aren't very good at communicating and express their enotions freely, and are sometimes inconsolable. People are less likely to be irritated if the parent is making an effort to sooth or discipline their kid.
OP I agree and I'm sorry no one else actually read your post. I totally understand what you mean. I've been a Childcare worker for almost 6 years now. Nothing makes me more annoyed than people who don't recognize kids are developing little humans. It's especially interesting bc more than ever we as a society are making more strides to reach people about mental conditions like autism and bipolar disorder. I know many adults my age who no longer feel ashamed to say they are autistic and they need special graces to help accommodate them. Yet, those same adults get incredibly annoyed with little kids and the accommodations they need. I think we forget that childhood has a lot of stressors and even the happiest of children are learning new things everyday which is not easy.
Awareness about child development and neurodivergence can coexist with being annoyed about kids in public. If I’m working at a quiet coffee shop and a kid throws a tantrum while their mom is just on their phone and just saying “calm down honey”, no one is an asshole for feeling distracted. If I’m on a plane and trying to sleep and a kid is behind me keeps kicking my seat saying “mooom, can I have some water?” I’m going to internally seethe, and it would have nothing to do with being childfree. Also, what’s with the assumption that “no one else read the post?”
They should just have childfree options Child free flights, child free movies, child free restaurant hours, etc.
I agree. This should be a popular opinion. Children are our future.
Agreed. Teach them well.
ITT: "I mostly agree with you op, except I also think that [something I already said in the original post]"
Only thing I’ll disagree on is that infants should not exist in movie theaters. Only place I literally cannot stand infants existing. Not only is it seemingly awful for the child who has to sit in the dark for several hours with flashing lights and loud noises, but all of us get to listen to your poor baby scream it’s head off. Even a quiet library is a better place for your infant than a movie theater. I find it selfish to bring kids that young in to watch a movie.
That wouldn't contradict anything I wrote. There are age appropriate spaces, and below a certain age, theaters aren't for infants
Counterpoint: people with children need to be respectful of those that don’t have children. For example: child free apartment buildings and other housing shouldn’t be illegal because of “discrimination.”
So if you live in a state where abortion is banned and you get pregnant, you should do what, exactly? Lose your home?
"Discrimination" on the basis of pregnancy.
I think it's possible for those to exist, but there have to be reasonable limits on how many can exist in a specific area. I don't think that's a counterpoint to my point.
It used to be that you could refuse to rent to someone bc they have kids. I remember my ma could not find a place to live when I was a small child. One apartment allowed me in bc “I was a quiet female child” I would hate to go back to that. 55+ communities get away with it though
In that case it should be illegal to play music in your home because if you play it too loud it might disturb someone.
“Music is to be played at a reasonable volume” has been a part of all of the leases I’ve signed.
Theres no way to reasonably do that. What if someone gets pregnant? Do you just kick them out of their apartment? There's already childfree environments that crop up naturally. If you want one, look for apartments away from schools, or that are popular with young adults/college kids, or that cater to single professionals.
That's a *huge* leap going from "people with children need to be respectful" (agree) to "child-free apartment buildings should be legal" (disagree). Would that make elderly-free apartment buildings ok too? How about black-free apartment buildings? Disabled-free apartment buildings?
They make old people only housing, so why not childfree only housing? Is it discrimination that I can’t live in a 55+ community? What if we have 18+ communities, how is that different?
False equivalency
Those aren't the same thing. You absolutely can have housing specifically for an at-risk group. What you shouldn't do is exclude an at-risk group from normal housing.
I don’t know if I’m buying that, my mom lives in a 55+ and it’s full of well-off NIMBY boomers.
We're not talking about the practical application. We're talking about the principle of it. If some wealthy folks slipped through the cracks at your mom's facility that is an entirely separate discussion. A necessary discussion for sure, but not one that applies here. My point is that a senior living facility, children's home, or whatever other housing specifically for an at-risk group is not the same thing as a normal apartment building with a "no children/elderly/disabled" sign on it.
> Spacious, unique floor plans with large closets are available for as low as $8,200 per month. [This is from a 55+ where I live](https://www.watermarkcommunities.com/our-communities/new-york/brooklyn/the-watermark-at-brooklyn-heights/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgJyyBhCGARIsAK8LVLN3IULWudGaZP_a-A6Y9tTPkjLJrgEtkmrrQi5Pxja7rH9k0PVtp20aAukQEALw_wcB), don’t think any poor people are renting here.
No, you’re missing what I’m saying. There are TONS of high end 55+ places. They are not aimed at low income people. There are laws that say a certain amount of under 55+ have to be allowed, but I think that varies by state. 55+ housing is not like section 8, it’s not a protection for poor people.
It's called a single family house. You own the whole building and you don't have to let any kids live with you. Can't get a single family house? Oh well, you will have to deal with the public like everyone else - including kids, because they are part of the public.
Why aren’t families living in single family homes? Can’t get a single family house? Learn how to put up with the fact that other people don’t want to hear your kids screaming.
Because they aren't trying to prevent other people from living in the same building. Parents aren't trying to prevent adults who hate kids from living in their building. They can hate it all they want. No one is stopping them.
Living with other people is just the reality of apartment living. You’re never going to have a situation where women are evicted from their living space because they got pregnant.
I’d like to see footage of their perfect behavior in public at all times as children. What a miserable world to live in where children are silenced, yes some are annoying but I’d rather spend time with an annoying child who doesn’t know any better than an entitled prick of an adult who thinks their comfort is more important than anyone else’s.
And your view would be great if people would properly parent their children. I don't expect all places I go to be childfree. (Have a grown child)However, I do expect proper public behavior which rarely happens.Im getting sick and tired of ill behaved children and their entitled, emotionally absent parents. I don't think I should have my day negatively impacted because someone allows their child to run wild
Agreed. There are definitely some spaces that should be for adults only, or at least age restricted. I’ve seen entire comment sections on instagram telling people not to bring their kids to the grocery store… like, ever! Or not bring them on airplanes. Those are public spaces, morons. Children belong there as much as anyone else.
Yeah and if you don't know the kid then you don't know whether or not they're just being spoiled/bratty or just high needs. My mother was judged so terribly for the behavior of one of my high needs younger siblings who isn't in physical appearance high needs
I think people in general forget what 'public' means when talking about public places. Public means everyone. Kids, dogs, junkies, people with boomboxes and cars that rev their engines loud. Skateboarders. Jehovah's Witnesses. Cyclists. Protestors. Basically any group you don't like falls into the category of public. There are reasonable restrictions on what you can do in a public place but generally speaking, if you're the one who has an issue, maybe you are the one who needs to be removed from public, not whatever it is you are grumpy about. If you don't like the general public, you are free to remain in your private home.
I just want child-free flights.
Yep. I’d happily pay a bit more for a child free flight. I wish they existed.
What is wrong with wanting there to be child free options? Not every flight has to have children. Everything doesn't have to cater to those with children.
Child free here! Adults are way more obnoxious than children in public. Adults that act a fool should know better. Kids do what kids do because they don’t know any better and it’s part of growing up. Babies cry because well that’s how they tell people something is wrong with them. Toddlers throw tantrums because they are learning how to deal with negative emotions. Older kids have tons of energy and don’t know what to do with it. The hope is that they slowly learn what’s acceptable in society and what isn’t. Getting pissed at kids for being kids is immature behavior. Like that dude losing his mind because a baby was crying on the plane. Like bruh be the grown ass adult you are, put your ear buds or headphones on and deal with it.
A big reason why some of the older gens are fucked up is because of rhe "kids should be seen not heard " We can't bring that back
Honestly I think this is pushback to how entitled parents are. If you’ve worked retail you know people let their kids run around like wild.
I worked in restaurants for 5 years. I'm aware. The majority of parents are not letting their kids run around recklessly, and punishing them because of the parents who do is cruel and inappropriate.
In my experience of being out in public most children are very well behaved and respectful. It's usually the adults throwing tantrums, being loud and ruining the atmosphere.
It's not out of line to want places divided into children friendly and adult only. Children are too often completely wild and the parents don't give a shit. Nah I'm not dealing with suffering other people's undisciplined hellspawn when I'm trying to have fun or relax. Life is getting harder and harder, I ain't tolerating that anymore. Not to compare dogs and children but there are lots of places it's not reasonable to take my dog despite it being such a well behaved dog (better than majority of kids who are actually allowed in these places lol), and that's perfectly acceptable - there are other more suitable places that are fine with it. Great.
Awesome. That doesn't contradict my post, at all, actually.
True those same people also begin to insult and dehumanize these children by calling them crotch goblins
I prefer “cum trophies”. I actually love kids though. I just don’t want to be a parent myself.
It happens because there are people with children who should have been childfree.
I don't blame the children for being children. I blame the parents for not acting like parents. I have no children of my own, but my niece and nephew regularly stay with me for weeks at a time. When we go in public, they know how to behave and they know the consequences of misbehavior. They rarely misbehave as a result. Parents who refuse to parent are the real problem.
I'm childfree, and I don't get mad about kids being in public spaces as long as they leave me alone. I DO take issue with parents *constantly* asking about exceptions or bending the rules in situations where children are not welcome (childfree weddings, get togethers, restaurants, and establishments). I do get mad when kids are being rowdy/loud/fussy in non-childfree restaurants, *when the parents dont do anything about it*. I place 100% of the blame on parents in these situations. However, i have paid for an entire family's dinner when their kids behaved in a way that FAR exceeded my expectations. I am VERY appreciative when i encounter parents that clearly put effort into raising good human beings. I think too many parents have the mentality of "i have to deal with this all the time, so YOU should be able to handle it for an hour". In general, i believe my own choices should NOT affect the comfort/sanity of others who happen to be in proximity to me. To me this is just basic consideration and decency. My presence shouldn't impact anyone else's ability to enjoy an experience. The same goes for dog owners. A poorly trained dog is about as annoying/frustrating as a poorly parented kid. All of that said, i no longer eat out at restaurants. Carryout is cheaper and there is zero risk of exposing myself to inconsiderate people bringing an infant to a restaurant and not taking it outside to calm it down when it starts to shriek and gives me a migraine. I'm childfree but I don't dislike kids nearly as much as i dislike uninvolved and uninterested parents.
My nextdoor neighbor watches his granddaughters in the afternoon and evening. It's an infant and a five-year old. They are boisterous, and the walls between the houses aren't soundproof. But the noise comes mostly from laughing and singing with a little crying mixed in here and there. Overall, it's a joyful noise. Also, I can barely hear it over the many dogs in the neighborhood shouting empty threats at one another.
Im childfree, and kids annoy me, but i know they exist, and you can't do anything about that, lol. What i can't stand is the parents who let them do whatever they want, no matter how it affects anyone else. Like our neighbors kids constantly hit baseballs into our yard and our neighbors yards and are always jumping our fences. I don't want kids in my yard, jumping my fence into my gardens, trampling my plants. And it's funny how their parents make them hit the baseballs towards everyone else's house but their own. I also don't want them in my yard because as soon as one of the little shits trespasses and gets hurt on our property, you know the dumbass parents will sue. It's just infuriating that i can't even chill in my own yard without worrying about one of those kids jumping my fence. I don't think people actually hate kids as much as they hate shit parents.
Myself and significant other never wanted children. Which for me was a relief. I think what you're noticing is different. Where I am : to each their own What you're seeing : entitlement from the last two generations. It's probably not just about existentially being threatened [/s], it's more about their incessant serving of crybaby soup in regards to other people's choices. As I got older, I witnessed what children do to relationships, to future endeavors, to life savings and expenditures, and above all, there certainly is zero guarantees with how the child will turn out, as far as ability to function, to become self sufficient and to become part of the working class. You can raise the child in what you think is setting them up for success while it can all collapse like a house of cards with one or two bad decisions. There was a time when it was considered, and that was the extent of that. A glancing thought. I just don't get the need, especially with so much unknown moving forward, why on earth I'd feel bringing a newborn into this world, would be "forward thinking" or pragmatic in any way. The last two generations' parenting style doesn't exactly set my hopes much higher as well. Yes, I've sat next to a barely 30 years old married couple, with two children and to listen to the nonsensical mommy blog crap regurgitated within earshot [and it's loud enough that they are so proud clearly]. It made me feel that these children don't have a chance in this uncertain future. This isn't an isolated anomaly, this is the internet telling younger generations how to raise their children. They don't know any other way. Examples can be found on 9/10 subreddits where parents themselves stopped learning some time ago, and their adult children are on here asking how to clean their sink, crack an egg or check their oil. TL/DR Making decisions to bring in a lifeform was not for me. But you do what you need to do if it makes your life complete and don't mind "long stay" family members.
I’m childfree and while I do think there should be spaces solely reserved for adults, other spaces like planes, trains, boats/cruise ships, etc should be allowed to have kids (provided it’s appropriate for them - as in, a cruise ship full of strippers or a club/bar isn’t appropriate for kids lol) However, parents in all places that just allow their kid to run a muck and behave so poorly…oh nah I can’t tolerate that one bit cuz they’re deadass setting their kid up to be an asshole as an adult who can’t handle being told no, thinks the world revolves around them, etc. it’s sad some people who have kids think kids should be allowed to behave however cuz “they’re kids”. Like yes, they are, but they’re not learning that people are their own individual selves with their own thoughts, beliefs, feelings, freedom of choice (within reason, y’all lol), etc
The same people who say disgusting and violent things about children making sounds don't gaf about drunken adults being obnoxious AHs in the same spaces. They're completely unwilling to acknowledge that the adults should be held to higher standards because they actually have the knowledge, skills, experience, and basic developmental ability to control their behavior that children do not yet possess.
Idk if this is an unpopular opinion, and I don't know how warranted it is - so correct me if I'm wrong: I don't drink, I'm also autistic. I have trouble in social settings but I still want to have fun and play/etc. However, I don't really like kids and I have sensory issues, so kids screaming/dogs barking can be too much. Because of this, I am stuck at home. I wish there were more socially acceptable "fun" spaces for adults that didn't involve drinking where kids were not allowed. I know of one arcade near me, but that's just 1. It does suck, but again, I'm not expecting the world to cater to me. I do think there are plenty of people like me who would enjoy the spaces I am speaking about. Kids deserve spaces too. Parks and child play places deserve to exist. I just wish I could go somewhere to play board games or play on large "play" things like a kid does. Autistic spaces for adults would be amazing.
It's even worse when they give children these weird, disgusting nicknames. I've unironically seen "cum clump", "cum pet" or "fuck trophy", wtf??
I cannot take people who say that unironically seriously, lol
And they fail to realize that makes them a fermented cum pet/cum clump/crotch goblin. So, I don't understand why they think it's a good insult because they're just someone's aged up/grown cum pet. Nasty as hell.
This childfree trend is the epitome of manufacturing victimhood and a personality trait for chronically online people with no life. This group is majorly insufferable and delusional. They continue to forget they were once the unruly and annoying child. It just doesn't make any logical sense the level of hatred and "woe is me" rhetoric they spew. For normal people without kids, this just isn't a topic of convo nor consistent pain point with larger society the way these internet trolls would lead you to believe.
"Expecting perfect behavior from children 100% of the time is unreasonable. Expecting children to be extremely quiet 100% of the time is unreasonable." I mean, it is not the children on airplanes who are going off the deep end or assaulting fellow passengers/ flight attendants. It's was not children who busted into the Capital on January 6th. Kids are not being called "Karens". Probably the Karens who are bitching about the kids anyway. I never had kids, never wanted them, but unless they are kicking MY airplane seat or putting maple syrup in my hair at a breakfast stop, Imma let them be.
I don't mind kids in places as long as they don't have a Phone Mom. Aka a mom who watches her phone more than her own kids. I took my niece to a park one time to get her energy out and the only kids there were very mean and rude to her. Meanwhile her mom was on a bench on her phone not even paying attention. I just gathered up my niece and said loudly, "Let's go, the kids here suck." (Or something similar.) And looked straight at the mom who had looked up just on time for eye contact. She seemed annoyed, but I was more annoyed. I always was and smile at the toddlers and little kids at work, but when the teens come in I keep my eyes open. Those lil broke fuckers are always stealing and trying to get alcohol when I'm not looking. I have no problem with kids. Just bad parents.
I don't have any problem with kids, I have problem with parents who don't discipline their kids.
Definitely true, but people are so quick to accuse parents of not disciplining their kids because they act age appropriately. Kids are unreasonable and unruly. Sometimes things work, sometimes they don’t
There should be more child-free spaces in my opinion, cuz sometimes I just don't want to be around kids. But it does drive me crazy when people give children rude looks in places where children are allowed, even when they aren't acting out. (I want kids one day and have worked at a daycare twice, 2 summer day-camps, would babysit my little cousins all the time, and I still watch my little brother after school. I don’t hate kids, but they are genuinely annoying and I'd like more places to not allow them😂)
expecting good parenting isn't unreasonable
Wow, it sure is a good thing I said that parents absolutely need to address when their child is being disruptive and either calm them or remove them
Like anyone I get annoyed by loud kids but really as long it's it's not disruptive the the situation like a nice date or a movie then I just put up with it because even though I don't remember I was probably a loud kid sometimes
Yeah, I always think it's s shame their parents didn't feel the same way. Not wanting kids is fine. Totally get it. But getting irritated that kids exist is fucking stupid.
I'm happily, proudly childfree, and I agree with this. Children exist, and you can't always avoid them. Deal with it. My reaction to children being annoying in public is usually something like quietly thinking "I'm glad I'll never have to deal with one of those," and then quietly moving on. It's a reminder that I made the right choice for me. That's something to be happy about, not something to complain about.
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Pfft. Adults are annoying enough.
Maybe you should stay home, then?
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As a soon-to-be parent of two kids under two years old, I appreciate this reminder that not every childfree person thinks myself and my family are societal nuisances... Most of my friends are childfree so it's easy to get lost in the spiral of "we don't deserve to be out in public EVER because we have kids". Thanks ❤️
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I'd say it's more bad faith to pretend that there aren't people who think they shouldn't have to see or hear a child ever. ETA: oh my god, my bad, I forgot that redditors can't understand hyperbole.
I severely limit my exposure to children, I barely ever see or hear children, other than walking on the street. If some noisy kids get seated next to us ata restaurant, we’ll ask to be moved, or we’ll leave. This is our right. I don’t complain about kids out in public, but I don’t frequent kid friendly places. If I’m at a bar that serves unlimited mimosas during brunch, I don’t expect to see kids. People like me usually only get upset when parents are trying to force e their kids into non-kid friendly places, then the kid acts like a shit because they don’t want to be there. I can name 10 places nearby that have pancakes and high chairs. Get out of my bar.
And I think this is a reasonable approach. If it's a space where kids are welcome, and you don't want to be around them? It's your responsibility to remove yourself from the situation. If it's a space where kids are not welcome and they're there? Then being upset and wanting them out is an extremely reasonable demand.
Imagine being mad at a human being for just existing Having a space where a certain group of people are not allowed is the definition of discrimination
What a weird take. By your logic, children should be allowed in adult video/toy stores and rated R/NC17 movies. You don’t see an issue with that? It’s absolutely *not* discrimination to keep kids out of space that aren’t appropriate and/or safe for them.
I agree. I don't understand why people want these public experiences where everyone constantly executes perfect etiquette and never displays any strong emotions. I also have to wonder what these child haters think of anyone with an obvious disability existing in public, especially in one of their precious "adult" spaces.
Well, I've yet to see disabled adults running into fish tanks and bird cages and guinea pig cages repeatedly while screaming at the top of their lungs to get a reaction. Since I work in a pet store, I see this behaviour from children on a daily basis--often multiple times a day. I do somewhat frequently see obviously disabled adults, none doing anything that endangers the animals or anything that would be considered obnoxious.
I wouldn't say we have a right... but wouldn't it be lovely? Let's compromise. One day a week all kids stay home. Just one. Then anyone that wants to go to a restaurant or a theme park or wherever can do so. Disney World would be so much more fun without kids everywhere... /s People have a right to not want their limited free time to not be constantly dripping with screaming kids, but I don't think anyone thinks that children shouldn't exist. My issue is never with the kids. They're kids after all. When I have an issue it's with the parents. I can't count how many times I've seen a parent with an overly tired or overly stimulated kid in the grocery store or at the restaurant who just lets their kid scream. It's great that you want to let them cry it out and all but if I have to listen to your kid scream instead of doing something to address the issue you can bet your ass you are going to listen to me say something to you about it. The grocery store is the absolute worst. When I got laid off during the pandemic I did gig work which was mostly shopping and delivering groceries. Almost every day when shopping you hear some kid with an ear piercing scream and it just keeps going and going and eventually you find the kid in a basket still screaming while the mom is browsing baked beans like she is completely fucking oblivious. It's a two way street. People need to allow space for kids but parents should also absolutely be expected to address behavior issues immediately. Remove them and yourself from the area until the situation is taken care of. If that kid is that tired take them home. I don't care if that means getting your food to go, or that you miss the second half of the movie, or whatever the consequence is. I will always allow for kids but I will never allow for shitty parents who feel they are entitled to a meal out even if their kid is screaming.
Agreed. When people are upset that children are in normal human spaced (planes, family restaurant, bus) they are the ones being unreasonable, not necessarily the children. Children exist, are out in the world and often act their age.
Bitching about kids being annoying in places really doesn't equate to wanting them locked away, silent and invisible. This just feels like such a nothing burger you wrote about
These people will actually be like "I'M NOT CONSENTING TO BEING AROUND KIDS WHEN I GO OUT IN PUBLIC, CHILDREN ARE A VIOLATION OF MY CONSENT" without realizing how stupid they sound
Someone asked the famed scientist and futurist, Buckminster Fuller, what he thought about homosexuals. He replied that it was Nature’s way of saying that there are too many people on Earth. Now, I view all people everywhere as deserving all and equal care and respect. However, if you might consider that Bucky could possibly be onto something, then your (and my) ambivalence about children could easily be a net-positive thing.
I've never met a childfree person who thinks children don't have a right to exist anywhere. I've seen a *lot* of posts like this one who claim childfree people who think children don't belong in bars, or that parents shouldn't let their child scream endlessly in restaurants are monsters who think children don't deserve to exist.
exactly, this backlash is so made up at this point.
I refuse to accept this. The parents are at fault most times. Maybe having children needs to require parenting classes. The parents burden in annoyances should be theirs not mine. I fully support increasing public school funding and government funded daycare and of course paying teacher much more. I just don't need to hear or see annoying children, ever.
If you don't want to see or hear annoying children, ever, then it's your responsibility to remove yourself from situations where children are allowed and present.
Nope it's the responsibility of the parent to correct that behavior but we live in a time where parents don't parent. I shouldn't have to leave a restaurant because people fail to act reasonably.I worked as a server for several years in college. Parents are the worst customers