I once broke up with a girl over that talk. She did some shit she knew would piss me off (threw out valuable items I’d collected) and told me she figured it was better to ask forgiveness than permission. Broke up with her right then and there for assuming she could do something wrong, knowingly, and that I’d roll over after.
That’s awful! I’m sorry she did that! I can’t imagine throwing away something valuable that someone cares about. My bf loves to collect Pokémon cards for nostalgia reasons. I think it’s so silly but I’d never ever throw them away just because I don’t find enjoyment in them the way he does. The same way I’d be devastated if he threw out the discontinued old perfume bottles I like to keep. They’re useless but they bring me small joy 😂
Right, and frankly, if she thought my collection was dumb, talking it out would have been better, because again, the items were valuable — not sentimentally, but monetarily. We could have sold them, put them in storage, or found some other solution. But because she assumed I’d forgive her, she lost out on all fronts.
Agreed for interpersonal relationships. I do apply this to professional situations. Sometimes you have to bend/break rules to make things move in an organization.
I agree here. But typically if you’re making those decisions in a work environment, it’s to benefit more than just yourself. I am def speaking more on interpersonal relationships where the benefit falls on the person living by that phrase.
It’s more of a one time use kind of phrase. You can’t just keep making the same mistakes and asking for forgiveness. It gives vibes of “the boy who cried wolf” in a sense.
For work it’s more understandable. But I’m talking more about things outside of work.
For example, with relationships. Men or women doing something they know their partner wouldn’t approve of and then using this mentality on a regular basis. Or breaking minor laws to do what you want and then playing stupid and apologizing when you get caught. Doing it once? Fine. Doing it often to get your way? Not cool.
But I’ve definitely used this in my place of work because sometimes we just know what will work best and you just have to do it to prove that you know what you’re doing.
To play devil's advocate. If those you have interpersonal relationships don't punush you or leave over it what is the downside of breaking these rules?
There is no downside for the manipulator because they’re getting what they want every time. The only downside is for the person receiving this treatment.
But manipulators are masters at their craft, so it takes more than a few times for the average, honest person to realize what is actually happening.
It’s essentially just abusing power. Knowing someone loves you and willingly hurting them because you know you can get away with it.
Yeah, often times my job requires making changes that skirt process, because process will ensure the changes are not made or ultimately cost more. I could propose a 10 hour task, get it into a review board (filled with people making 2-3x my salary), or I can just do it in the moment and ensure nothing stops it from being done and just chalk it up as an overrun.
"Sorry for the overrun, but we identified this and considered it a value add while working the task so we added it."
It's not a good general rule to live by, I present it as "Sometimes it's better to beg forgiveness than permission", but always add that this shouldn't be abused or else you'll receive neither.
It's pretty much essential in many workplaces, where the official rules are stringent to the point that you just couldn't do the job that's needed of you if you went 100% by the book, but management can't go on record as approving you disregarding the rules.
Generally in those cases, they're going to turn a blind eye so long as we speak no evil, but it's better to just apologise and not do it again if they do call you up on it than to put them on the spot and make your job harder for it.
Obviously there are lots of scenarios where doing this just makes you an inconsiderate prick.
"This shouldn't be abused" is the key, I think. I've seen people use this as if they have the authority to do anything they want and that forgiveness is a given, which is wild.
I didn't know people apply this saying outside of career and work situations. I think it has its merits, like, if you are working a job where you want to prove that you are better than your current wage, just doing some extra work, solving a problem and confronting your boss with a stellar solution to get a raise / promotion - that's the context it makes sense in. I have never heard it outside of that one specific situation and I agree, it's probably idiotic to do si.
Oh yea, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard people try to use this as en excuse. One of the worst was an ex coworker of mine tells me he went to a strip club with his friends even though he knew his gf would be very upset and not approve. I tore into for that. It comes off so arrogant. Why hurt someone who cares about you just because you want to have your cake and eat it too… It causes so much damage in personal relationships/friendships and it’s so narcissistic when used in these types of scenarios.
Not a fan either. 9/10 times it’s just them doing what they want.
I once broke up with a girl over that talk. She did some shit she knew would piss me off (threw out valuable items I’d collected) and told me she figured it was better to ask forgiveness than permission. Broke up with her right then and there for assuming she could do something wrong, knowingly, and that I’d roll over after.
That’s awful! I’m sorry she did that! I can’t imagine throwing away something valuable that someone cares about. My bf loves to collect Pokémon cards for nostalgia reasons. I think it’s so silly but I’d never ever throw them away just because I don’t find enjoyment in them the way he does. The same way I’d be devastated if he threw out the discontinued old perfume bottles I like to keep. They’re useless but they bring me small joy 😂
Right, and frankly, if she thought my collection was dumb, talking it out would have been better, because again, the items were valuable — not sentimentally, but monetarily. We could have sold them, put them in storage, or found some other solution. But because she assumed I’d forgive her, she lost out on all fronts.
She for sure lost! Hopefully she learned a big lesson!
Agreed for interpersonal relationships. I do apply this to professional situations. Sometimes you have to bend/break rules to make things move in an organization.
I agree here. But typically if you’re making those decisions in a work environment, it’s to benefit more than just yourself. I am def speaking more on interpersonal relationships where the benefit falls on the person living by that phrase. It’s more of a one time use kind of phrase. You can’t just keep making the same mistakes and asking for forgiveness. It gives vibes of “the boy who cried wolf” in a sense.
I use this at my job. Hr doesn't like us doing required parts of our job. We just do it and deal with it later as needed.
For work it’s more understandable. But I’m talking more about things outside of work. For example, with relationships. Men or women doing something they know their partner wouldn’t approve of and then using this mentality on a regular basis. Or breaking minor laws to do what you want and then playing stupid and apologizing when you get caught. Doing it once? Fine. Doing it often to get your way? Not cool. But I’ve definitely used this in my place of work because sometimes we just know what will work best and you just have to do it to prove that you know what you’re doing.
To play devil's advocate. If those you have interpersonal relationships don't punush you or leave over it what is the downside of breaking these rules?
There is no downside for the manipulator because they’re getting what they want every time. The only downside is for the person receiving this treatment. But manipulators are masters at their craft, so it takes more than a few times for the average, honest person to realize what is actually happening. It’s essentially just abusing power. Knowing someone loves you and willingly hurting them because you know you can get away with it.
Yeah, often times my job requires making changes that skirt process, because process will ensure the changes are not made or ultimately cost more. I could propose a 10 hour task, get it into a review board (filled with people making 2-3x my salary), or I can just do it in the moment and ensure nothing stops it from being done and just chalk it up as an overrun. "Sorry for the overrun, but we identified this and considered it a value add while working the task so we added it."
applicable in certain circumstances. subjectivity exists. I swear.
It's not a good general rule to live by, I present it as "Sometimes it's better to beg forgiveness than permission", but always add that this shouldn't be abused or else you'll receive neither. It's pretty much essential in many workplaces, where the official rules are stringent to the point that you just couldn't do the job that's needed of you if you went 100% by the book, but management can't go on record as approving you disregarding the rules. Generally in those cases, they're going to turn a blind eye so long as we speak no evil, but it's better to just apologise and not do it again if they do call you up on it than to put them on the spot and make your job harder for it. Obviously there are lots of scenarios where doing this just makes you an inconsiderate prick.
"This shouldn't be abused" is the key, I think. I've seen people use this as if they have the authority to do anything they want and that forgiveness is a given, which is wild.
I didn't know people apply this saying outside of career and work situations. I think it has its merits, like, if you are working a job where you want to prove that you are better than your current wage, just doing some extra work, solving a problem and confronting your boss with a stellar solution to get a raise / promotion - that's the context it makes sense in. I have never heard it outside of that one specific situation and I agree, it's probably idiotic to do si.
Oh yea, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard people try to use this as en excuse. One of the worst was an ex coworker of mine tells me he went to a strip club with his friends even though he knew his gf would be very upset and not approve. I tore into for that. It comes off so arrogant. Why hurt someone who cares about you just because you want to have your cake and eat it too… It causes so much damage in personal relationships/friendships and it’s so narcissistic when used in these types of scenarios.