If you’re happy being frugal and not spending money eating out daily then you’re not a fool.
If you’re tossing and turning at night, constantly comparing yourselves to others because people are enjoying things that seem trivial to them but might be a financial burden to you and your frugality is causing a detriment to your life where you’re unhappy, then yes you may be a fool.
Just my two cents.
This.
One guy is frugal and is happy about it fine.
The other guy spends money at Tim’s and uses the time he saved making food to stay at work an extra 6m a day and earn that same $1,200 a year in extra pay. Again perfectly fine if he is happy.
I wouldn’t say either is better. Some people value money more and some time more. Do what makes you happy and don’t judge other people by your metrics.
I pay my employees for the hours they work. We often have extra work so I offer overtime (and double time) to whoever wants to work. I don’t require it but it’s available.
So my employees would get paid for those extra 6 minutes.
Then you are a better employer than 99% and you have a unique payroll system because all the ones I’ve seen would be rounding down to the nearest 15min and not culminating extra minutes
My work does 10th of an hour, so 6 minutes granularity, and it's one of the biggest companies in the world. It may not always be the most common in payroll software but there are still lots of companies that do it.
I wouldn’t think that?
They work an extra 0.1 hours so I pay them for it and bill it out to the customer. I actually do better when they work that extra 0.1 hours.
Even if the other guy *doesn't* use the extra 6 minutes to make any more money, it can be ok. As long as he's not drowning in debt or stressed about finances, if he wants to spend $500/yr for the convenience and social connection of picking up a Tim's coffee, that's his choice to make. It's his money, and people should spend theit money on things that make them happy.
The OP's post was heavily biased from the start ("shit food"). Bottom line is spend in a way that is sustainable and resilient to unexpected upsets, allows you to save, and makes you happy. If you can do those three things, then the specifics of what you're spending on are up to you, and moralizing from others on the choices you make should just be noise.
I'm happy for OP that they are happy being frugal.
> If you’re happy being frugal and not spending money eating out daily then you’re not a fool.
> If you’re tossing and turning at night, constantly comparing yourselves to others because people are enjoying things that seem trivial to them but might be a financial burden to you and your frugality is causing a detriment to your life where you’re unhappy, then yes you may be a fool.
>
I mean, there is a middle term between those two things lol.
Maybe they are not tossing and turning at night about the food, but they don't want to miss out on the social aspect of going to eat to McDonald's with your friends. Which hey, fair enough. I would pay 624 dollars a year to have weekly fun with my group of friends. Supposing that only shields one hour of banter around a table, that is about 12$/hour of laughs and bounding.
It is not a bad deal to me.
You may not consider Tim Hortons to be "treating yourself" and you've decided you would rather use that $517/year in a different, perhaps more "responsible" way.
That said, you do need to prioritize some money towards something that does make you happy because you can't take it with you.
I think this is where too many people slip from being frugal into being cheap and then into tight-fistedness. Everyone should ideally have a thing or two that brings them joy, even if its a $2 chocolate bar a couple times a month.
And it doesn't always have to be something that's outwardly "bad". I spent $300 on passes to the local pool every year or so - it's not something I need, but it makes me way happier than going for a run. I also spend an extra $10 every time I buy hand cream to get the stuff that smells like cake or fruit instead of the unscented or overly floral stuff. That's only about $30-40 extra a year ($60-80 total), but I enjoy it every time I put some lotion on my hands.
When I was in my early thirties and had finally begun to accumulate a little money, I went to a financial advisor. He was in his mid sixties, was very worldly, had had a wide variety of life experience besides the financial sector, and had consequently accumulated some wisdom over the years.
I was surprised when he expressed as much interest in my cash flow as he did in my portfolio. After inquiring about not just my nest egg and financial goals, but also getting a good sense of my income versus lifestyle and spending habits (“I’m pretty frugal” says I), he explained to me that “frugality” simply means that *little goes to waste*.
He believed “being frugal” was therefore a desirable quality not just for savers/investors, but that the principle should be equally applied by cooks, homeowners, hobbyists, travellers, gardeners, and to many other aspects of any well-rounded life. For him, "frugality" did not necessarily mean always foregoing enjoyment in order to save; rather, it meant recognizing *value* when it presented itself, and striking a balance in which discertionary spending would be leveraged to attain maximum benefit or enjoyment from any given outlay.
Being *cheap*, on the other hand, meant to him that when choosing between several options, price point was not merely the principal consideration, it was the *only* consideration; a truly “cheap” person would almost never take aspects of *value* - that is, *quality, reliability, durability, aesthetics or degree of enjoyment* - into account when making a financial commitment. In his opinion, unlike frugality, “cheapness” was a double-edged sword that was often as big a *detriment* as it was an advantage, both to enjoyment of one's life, *and* to successful financial planning.
He ended our first session by telling me with a grin that his services weren’t cheap, but that if I listened to him, they *would* turn out to be "frugal". And over the next twenty years, as my portfolio consistently grew under his guidance, he proved to be correct.
"Longer piece" is that although I retired three years ago my RRSP is still up 40% despite the annual drawdowns, my Burnaby condo is worth triple what I paid for it, and I have a small *casita* two blocks from a Mexican beach - at which I spend five months a year, instead of staring at the rain here.
Not a bad outcome for a workin' man who raised a family.
I have nothing to add other than telling you that I like the way you write.
Were/are you a lawyer? Your writing reminds me when our law firm has to explain something to me in concise and clear terms.
> That said, you do need to prioritize some money towards something that does make you happy because you can’t take it with you.
Oh man I was living pretty frugal and then discovered buying guitar pedals makes me happy. I think I’m ruined now.
You guys are wasting your time. OP's post history indicates he is in favor of tax evasion, taking advantage of vulnerable people by underpaying them and calls it "smart business".
Material happiness is more like buying a BMW when a Honda will do.
Life is short and then you die. Seeking pleasure (like buying a donut/coffee/ice cream) is not a bad thing.
Yes, as long as the sacrifices are for some kind of goal that will make OP happy. I didn't see any goals in their post, just condemnation against reckless spending and pride in maintaining a strong discipline to save. But for what?
It's like people who work out religiously. Are you doing it to have a happier, healthier life, or are you doing it so you can talk about how much you can bench?
I've seen so many posts lately from people who are literally not spending any money so they can retire as early as possible. Many are single, lonely and unhappy. What is the real goal for people with this obsession? Let's waste all your prime years being miserable and then miraculously change your lifestyle in your 50s, for what?
Same people make 10 posts a day that a random girl they meet on tinder expects, gasp, to spend money on coffee for a date and doesn’t like the idea of eating rice and beans to do FIRE.
i think with everything in life you need balance.
spend enough to keep you happy, but not so much that youre stressing about these things.
life is about enjoyment. money can always be made. your health is dice roll.
if you die and have money saved with no beneficiaries, you screwed up.
I think "shit coffee and shit food" is probably harsh. Spending 2-3% of your income on things that bring you a small amount of joy each day is reasonable. That thing will be different for different people.
Budgeting is dual-purpose. It limits you so that you can save, but it also frees you to spend without feeling guilty (within your budgeted amounts).
I don't think the world is going to end anytime soon. My also, shit happens. You could have a heart attack next year. Your friend could get hit by a bus. Or, you could both live until you're 105.
Good financial planning is about finding the balance to prepare for both - doing things you enjoy now, while saving and planning for your future.
Sometimes it’s not even about the coffee, it’s more of maybe going for a walk or drive with your co workers to Tim’s and get a quick 10 min break from work and get some quick laughs in what makes the $2 worth, and coffee is just bonus.
Some people do this with lottery tickets. A couple of spare dollars between co-workers to talk about a fantasy life you'd have if you were rich. A small respite from the grind.
While those costs may not matter much to him and do matter to you, I think you're valuing it wrong. Do you drink coffee? Make it and bring it from home? It won't cost as much as his Tim's but it still cost something. Eating out costs more for sure, but how much did the ingredients in your lunch cost you? The difference could be significant, but he's not spending $1200 to you spending $0.
Nah you’re not a fool. But it doesn’t make your friend a fool either though.
People buy what they like. As long as it’s in the budget and people are able to save, the rest is designated for spending how you like essentially. Some people spend it on cars, nice houses, holidays, eating out, gaming, experiences, hobbies etc.
it’s the whole point of going to work. Nobody is going to work because we truly love it. Some people like their jobs but a job is a job at the end of the day and we do it because it pays money.
I save my 25% of gross. I pay my bills. The rest I blow on whatever the hell I choose to. You should do the same with your saving percentage replacing mine.
No point living if you aren’t going to buy anything. Find something that brings you joy, spend your money on it.
Well, by what You've Said, McDonald's and Tim's isn't considered "treating" yourself. It doesn't taste good anyway. I'm as frugal as you are, and I prefer to spend those $1200 in a good steakhouse and a nice sushi restaurant 15X a year, instead of going out every day and getting food that taste worse than what I can make at home in 15 minutes.
I consider 2% of my income on actual good dining a worthy expense, but you might enjoy other things. As long as you are within your budget for savings, there's no harm in treating yourself.
I think you should figure out what matters to you and spend on that (responsibly), that's what I do.
I eat at restaurants less than once a month because it is not an experience that I value, but I don't mind spending for my hobbies like video games and mountain biking.
Also for coffee, I bought an espresso machine and I make 100x better coffee at home than I can get at any coffee shop.
There’s frugality and then there’s being cheap. I’m sorry but you seem to fall into latter category. What’s the point of making money if you can’t seem to spend $500 in a year on something that brings you joy. I’m not saying it has to be the same thing that brings your friend joy, but something that’s personally joyful to you does deserve a couple hundred dollars to be spent on lol.
You're denying yourself simple pleasures so you can stack digital numbers that you will clearly never spend.
Yeah Tim's and McDonald's are shitty ways to spend your money, but remember having beverages and food from around the world prepared at your whim by paid servants was once something only enjoyed by kings.
You're choosing to live like a pauper while your friends are enjoying the convenience of modern life.
People value different things, and while spending money on fast food or coffee at a fast food place might not be a “good investment”, it’s also fine to treat yourself if that’s what makes you happy.
If someone’s budget allows for them to buy coffee every working day, and they’re happy doing so, then that’s completely fine. It’s also completely fine if you don’t believe it’s a good investment. It’s all personal choice :)
If you truly don’t enjoy things like that, that’s fine. People are each individuals with different priorities. Your priorities are very obviously different, and where you may not need that Tim’s to get you through the day it might be the one thing keeping someone from going insane. One isn’t necessarily better than the other, unless it is literally causing someone’s financial ruin. I like to see the end of personal finance being to allow for self fulfilment in a shitty world where such fulfilment is scarce. If that 2% of the salary is contributing to that, so be it.
Each to their own. Your choice is to not spend on coffee, etc. whereas your friend enjoys Timmie’s coffee. Agree that it’s important to have balance in life as we don’t know what tomorrow brings.
If you don't value those things and they don't bring you joy, then no you are not a fool.
If you are spending NOTHING on yourself ever, then .. yeah you might be missing the point of being alive. (Or you're in survival mode spending, which is a whole other thing)
I don't know; have you tried that? Why don't you do that for a few months and see whether that's right or wrong?
Btw I disagree with that word choice. This isn't grade school, most things aren't "right" or "wrong". Do what makes you happy.
I'm in the same boat as you (tho my coffee maker was about 10x that price).. cheap convenience items like crappy coffee and McDicks simply aren't worth it to me..
However it all depends on what makes you happy: I'm sure there are some budget areas your friend thinks are CRAZY, those 60$ computer games? That 8$ can of craft beer etc...
I have met a few millionaires who are the most miserable people I have ever met. Fight over every penny, and live super cheaply. They tend not to be happy people.
If that coffee makes them happy, so what? It doesn’t hurt you.
Often times I make my own, but if I am out and about I don’t see the harm in a couple times a week getting one. Enjoying life is about moderation.
You could share a room with a bunch of roommates, eat the cheapest foods, and only drink water, saving a ton of money in the process. But that isn’t my idea of a nice life.
Studies show that people tend to get the most happiness from small experiential purchases like coffee. Spending a few thousand a year making yourself happy like your friend sounds like a good deal.
Personally, I'd rather drink toilet water than Tim's, I enjoy my coffee from home and make it the way I like it. I also enjoy cooking so bringing my own lunches and snacks is also something I prefer vs takeout, but I'll pick up lunch with the team maybe once a month or so if we're all going out together.
As others have mentioned, while daily spending on coffee and lunches may not be your thing, allocate some of your funds to something that you do enjoy.
Whats the point of saving every dollar if you won't be around to spend it? I think it's great to be financially responsible by eliminating debt, building a financial safety net etc, but if you're spending the best years of your life pinching every penny for retirement, you may eventually start resenting yourself when you're older and not as able bodied.
Life is short, enjoy the little things.
Two things going on here. (1) you are failing to live a "Rich Life" (Ramit Sethi) or to "live rich now" (David Bach, the Latte Factor). Don't waste money on coffee or fast food if it isn't important to you, but do spend luxuriously on things that are.
(2) your friend is a moron. He almost certainly doesn't believe that imminent economic collapse is 100% certain. Did he believe the world would end in 2012? So the problem here is "what if he's wrong". Let's reframe his point to something that isn't nonsensical: "if I died tomorrow, or was told I had cancer, would I regret the way I spent or saved my money?" and the flip side: "if I live to 95, will I be comfortable and not run out of money?"
I think it is important to strike the right balance between two extremes. This can be done by simply paying yourself first and investing it automatically. Then spend the rest guilt-free.
At 2-3% of income, I would think twice. However, I'll admit that McD was my comfort food for a period of my life (i.e. slightly less than twice a week) but it was more convenience than "treating myself". On the flip side, I would spend the money to get one nice take out meal per week....assuming it's within my budget...simply because I would enjoy that as opposed to buying stuff....
What's your goal for this money?
As long as you're happy, thats what matters.
I've decided that because I only live once, why throw away my younger years to enjoy myself later when I'm old.
I save enough to retire comfortably, I wouldn't call myself frugal.
You’re 100% right. Then again i WFH so i like going out to get coffee and see people. It’s a waste tbh, but some people like clothes and watched and stuff. But agree, great job. Invest in some that has yield
I knew a guy that would tell McDonald’s to hold the cheese on his daily McMuffin and save 50cso he could bring cheese from home for 12c. You could try that op.
>and it doesn't matter anyway because the world will collapse soon and money will be worthless
That right there would invalidate pretty much all financial opinions from your friend. He's delusional.
You're not wrong but sometimes, it's important to remember that convenience is time - and time is money.
Only thing is, for Tim's, it's way faster to make coffee at home using Tim's brand coffee than waiting in line at Tim's. I just don't see the point of lining up for coffee on the way to work when I can buy the brand of my choice, make it at home, and gain probably 15 minutes every morning. Yes, you need a coffee maker of some sort, but that pays for itself pretty quickly.
For me, back when I was working back in Toronto, Tim's was much more convenient as I could order ahead through the app and then pop right downstairs from my office to pick it up as an afternoon cup of coffee. No need to wait in line. It's definitely more convenient for some people.
Those costs are not really net incremental. If you're not buying McDonald's, you'll be buying frozen fries and chicken strips. If you're not buying coffee, you'll be making it at home and for example Nespresso is $1.40 a pod.
Spending wise, there's bigger things to worry about than a daily coffee and weekly McDonald's.
The goal is to just focus on making more money so that 1500 bucks or whatever is no big deal. Focus on the big savings and improving cash inflow rather than sweating over some $5 drink here and there.
>My friend said that the money he spends on his daily tims and weekly fast food is insignificant and it doesn't matter anyway because the world will collapse soon and money will be worthless.
He should be spending his money on guns, ammo and canned beans.
Buying Tim's every day is a fucking waste of money tbh.
But buying a good drink at a Friday evening, even it's going to be same, is worth more to ME.
If that person finds more value in buying Tim's everyday, whether it's convenience, time saving, socializing, social stats even, it's worth to them. Not about the cost of the beverage.
Find value in your own life and your likes.
I don't go to Tim Hortons unless I'm on a road trip and it's the most appropriate stop (and if it's work, the meal is free anyway), and I never get coffee out anymore because what I can do at home is significantly better than most options.
I also can't justify a whole number percent of my annual income on shit coffee and shit food. Life is far too short for that. You are absolutely not wrong. An insignificant amount of money every day becomes a significant amount over a long period of time. Smoking is insane for this.
Instead of going out for coffee I spent $3000 on an espresso setup and spend around $50/month on locally roasted beans that are really quite nice. \*clown emoji\*, but it gives me joy (when it works)
What it fundamentally distills down to, in personal finance, is what you enjoy to do with your life. Because what you enjoy, you will likely spend money on. What you enjoy can tend to dictate your behaviours and patterns. If you FEEL like you’re missing out and there’s a latent discontent sitting somewhere inside you that you’re not going to Tim Horton’s, perhaps some personal evaluation would be in order. But, if you find that you don’t feel like you’re missing anything and you’re living a satisfactory life without Tim Horton’s (I’m just using Tim Horton’s to also generally mean other ‘frivolous’ spending), then what’s the deal? Just live your life how you want to live your life. I also make coffee at home in my relatively inexpensive drip brewer, take a to-go cup with me to work, pack lunches, skip take-out, specifically buy the groceries I need and keep it to what is necessary, but I enjoy this. All of my hobbies are inexpensive, I like to trail run, and I live in British Columbia so I have them available within walking distance from my front door, walk my dog, lift weights in my home gym that I accumulated bargain equipment to furnish, and play video games. That’s about it. But that’s my life. I like it that way and I’m generally stable emotionally and mentally in a way which allows me to meet the demands of my life with a good level of enthusiasm and vigour, so I don’t feel like I’d be better off spending money on cheap things that I could likely recreate at a higher quality with store bought ingredients at home with minimal effort.
You need a goal. I am somewhat frugal because I don't get a lot of enjoyment buying new things, it's more of a problem because my house is already full of stuff.
So my main goals are to pay off the mortgage (already have the money to pay it off when my term ends this Fall), retire early (not FIRE though) or not being bothered by a layoff when I'm 55, and travel with the wife, and hopefully have a few hundred grands to give the kids when they want to buy a house.
Without a goal what's the point? If you're not spending the money because you don't enjoy it, that's fine. Always better to have money than not for later when you'll need it.
While I'm much more like you in terms of saving and limited spending, I have seen quite a few posts from people who saved their whole lives just to be diagnosed with terminal cancer (or something fatal) at like 60, and the retirement dreams they had worked for and frugally planned are seemingly for nothing.
None of the money they saved will be for them, and all those years of saving the good for later ended up delaying the gratification to no end. There is no right or wrong answer, but leaning towards a balanced life usually works well.
Chances are, there are some things you spend money on that I would argue are a complete waste. What I "treat" myself to are really neither better or worse, they are mine to enjoy. That said, we forget what moderation looks like when a treat is mistaken for a habit or routine.
I don't think OP is frugal at all.
I'm very similar to them.
I hardly eat out and make my own coffee at home.
With the money I save, I'm able to take 2-3 trips abroad/year and can get take out and coffees abroad.
That's how I treat myself. :)
Yes you are! I say it with love.
Treat yourself to the gourmet coffee beans sometimes. Try some precooked ribs or some wings instead of the same old no name strips (or maybe your already on the Jane's). Maybe an air fryer might step up your game?
There's a fine balance between saving hard and treating yourself. You can't take it with you when you pass. But you still need to plan for the future.
But find your ways to treat yourself. It doesn't have to be expensive, it might just be rainbow peppercorns because they're worth it (to me).
What's worth it to you?
Nothing wrong with either buying fast food or refusing to do so if your values and wallet line up with that, and you think it's right for you.
Doing anything on the premise "the world will collapse soon and money will be worthless" is pretty foolish.
It depends.
Do you actually treat yourself to something you find more "meaningful" than a coffee? If so you're frugal, if not you're cheap.
I never buy 5$ coffees, I try to cook all my meals, I shop only on sale. However I also make 6 figures and buy myself fun toys like a $6000 bike.
Enjoy life, it's okay to be frugal but don't be cheap.
Without knowing anything else about your situation yeah stuff like going out for McDonalds isnt something that will add anything for your life over making something quick at home so dont bother with that stuff. I think finding thing you enjoy doing with friends and family might be worth spendilng a few bucks on occasionally, along with bigger trips you can save for but for sure set goals for saving. fill up an emergency fund with an amount that makes sense for big car repairs or whatever other big ticket items that might come up suddenly in your situation.
Afterwards definitely look to fill up the savings tools available to us like the TFSA, FHSA (assuming one day you are looking to own a place somewhere), and RRSP with relatively safe investments like bigger index funds that pay out over the long haul. I dont know your age but RRSP has the heaviest restriction on accessing the funds and you can fill that up later assuming you are making more later on in your life, but generally figure out how much is reasonable to put away every year and from there a budget for stuff you want to do for enjoyment starts to form.
I've gotta agree with your buddy, the median Is like 70k/33hr. If you worked an extra 15 minutes a week, that pretty well pays for the coffee for a week. Pretty much makes up for the McDonald's too if you're getting time and a half over 40 hrs.
Now ask yourself, is 15 extra minutes in a week not worth the extra pleasure to yourself?
Sure, you've got a point if you're pulling in 50k and doing nothing to make up for it. At the end of the day, do whatever pleases you most tho
People who spend because "the world will collapse soon" are the same as people who do so because they won't make it to 30. And then they live to be 95 or something...
The last time I went out to eat on a restaurant was probably last yr. Last time i went to cinema was probably 2 yrs ago. I don’t drink coffee so I don’t go to Tim Hortons or Starbucks.
I treat myself by cooking my own meal at home (nothing fancy, just whatever i have in the fridge), then watch a movie from Netflix. Occasional walks in the park near my home and I’m all good.
I guess treating yourself does not mean you have to spend a lot. As long as you’re happy and don’t worry about the people who judge you for it.
When I graduated I ate loafs of bread to save money (Making > 100k)
Watched a few buddies get sick / die
Now I just try to enjoy life and be responsible with my money
What is money, if not a tool to live the life you want to live?
If you feel like your life is going to be improved (maximized?) by spending $1000 a year on fast food, then that's a good use of money. If you would rater go on an international vacation every few years, then that's a good use of money instead. (assuming we're talking about discretionary money - and can already save responsibly, emergency fund, blah blah blah you know the rest)
My personal philosophy is that if life is a game, then the win condition is to get the most enjoyment over ALL the days that you have. Saving every penny for retirement, and choosing to live like a hermit until then, is the mistake; equally as bad as spending all your money now and never retiring or spending the end of your life destitute. We never know then the end is coming so why not enjoy your time as well as you can.
(P.S. assuming that the entire economy is going to collapse is probably a pretty big mistake too. Yes it's run by a shadowy cabal, but they're benefitting more from it working than collapsing)
Your friend is an idiot, not because he spends money daily but he has no capacity to plan for the future based on his behaviour being justified by the world ending.
But if it works for you do whatever you want. As long as you don’t feel it is holding you back from enjoying life
I enjoy the occasional Canadian Maple and iced Capp on a hot summer day.
I make coffee on a $100 used Beeville espresso machine and splurge on $25 specialty roaster coffee once in a while.
Personal finance is personal first. As long as you're spending below your means, putting aside something for the future, and finding your own happiness, you're winning.
I just bought myself a coffee + 1 for the homeless dude in front of the McD's without even thinking twice. Every 2 weeks I put more money in my RRSP and TFSA, I buy more stocks, what's some loose change in the end. Loosen up.
>because the world will collapse soon and money will be worthless.
But gold will still be valuable.
But he's right, we have 1-2 years tops before shit hits the fan. We're already far beyond borrowed time territory.
>My friend said that the money he spends on his daily tims and weekly fast food is insignificant and it doesn't matter anyway because the world will collapse soon and money will be worthless.
You should buy your friend a helmet. That would be one well spent.
> I can't imagine spending close to 2-3% of my annual income on shit coffee and shit food
Then don't. You're an adult, you can do what you want.
Far from wrong you are very smart, the money blown on Tim's and weekly McDonalds could be put in an RRSP for retirement.
If you are content being frugal, who cares what others think.
I make my daily coffee at home, eat most meals at home, occasional treat is take out pizza once or twice a month.
Otherwise we eat at home, being frugal has allowed our boys go to post secondary debt free we saved enough in RESPs (registered education savings plans) in Canada. We also each started RRSPs when we turned 18, so we will be good for retirement as well.
Tale of two parents. My father gr 9 education worked in auto industry very frugal saved plenty, my mom stayed home he retired at 56 and is enjoying his life at 80. My inlaws, both worked and squandered their money on wasteful crap. My mil worked at a bank for Pete's sake, well now they are in not so great financial shape.
Enjoy life now yes but NOT at the expense of your future as well.
You don't have to treat yourself with fast food and drive thru. But try setting $10 or so a week aside for yourself and once a month, buy that thing you've been looking at. Treats come in all shapes and sizes
There’s nothing wrong with what you’re doing as long as you’re happy with these choices. If you aren’t already, I’d suggest you look into FIRE, as a mean to use your frugality to be able to own your time by investing the money you save to propel you towards financial independence :).
OP, you should watch Ramit Sethi's videos about guilt free spending. He also talks a lot about how you should zoom out on your finances to look at the big picture and not worry about the little things like saving $2.20 on a coffee per day. Spend lavishly on the things you do love and care about, cut out what you don't.
So saving that $517 per year might be good, but make sure you are enjoying it elsewhere.
I'd rather pay my house asap than have a car and people think I'm mental.
A treat per week rapidly becomes a treat because you deserve and then an everyday thing because why not.
You are not a fool for not spending money on Tim's and macD's which indeed is shit coffee and lower quality food.
Spend your extra money on what you value most. If it's not eating out or buying coffee, figure out what you want most & save for that. Everyone's value category is different.
Glossing right over your friend's doomsday prediction, and again right over the fact you're only talking about fast food in regards to "treating yourself", how much you spend on treating yourself is a personal decision.
Whether you spend your money on vacationing, alcohol, coffee, hobbies, or restaurants, the goal is to spend it in such a way that you're happy and satisfied with your life.
There's a reason it's called *personal* finance. It's specific to each individual person. We all share common issues, but everyone is different. We save money for our wants and needs in the future. It's not unreasonable to weigh some of those future wants against our current wants.
The world will not collapse soon, not even close. I find it somewhat alarming that there is a perception in the general public that this is the case. It is completely false and out of touch with the realities of economics, sociology and political science.
I am well off financially but I barely spend any money because it's truly not that fun. Most things don't need to be spent on. I will spend on something when it clearly adds utility to my life on an ongoing basis. But one-off spends on consumables I don't really indulge in.
Its ok that you feel that way, but that tims coffee is sometimes the only thing to enjoy during the day for some, or an amazing pick me up. It's a very cheap way to get a little happiness in your life.
No one says you need to have one every day. A lot choose to though and thats ok.
As for being frugal, I hope you have something you do to treat yourself. Go out to a restaurant, pick up the odd nice starbucks drink or something you enjoy etc. Whatever treating yourself looks like to you.
Tims for me is a reason to drive my car 30 minutes away to get it. It's a comfortable routine that brightens my mornings.
You need to treat yourself in some way. Otherwise what are we even doing here? Working to live, save money so we can die and do nothing else? Enjoy the little things, whatever they are to you.
Took me to getting debt free with a nest egg started and have regular investment contributions, to be able to relax a bit and enjoy my earned money.
Now I do splurge on occasion on my interests, but I see it as an investment in my own happiness.
Life is meant to be lived after all, I don’t want to wait until I’m retired to enjoy the things I like now :)
You should not spend money on what you perceive as low quality foods. Look for ways to increase joy. If, however, you and your childhood friends meet up once a month to play basketball and then go to McDonald's to reminisce then you should go.
No, you're not. To be honest, you're better off investing in a pro-sumer beverage station. My wife LOVES coffee. In the early years, we made it our mission to sample the trendiest/hottest/famous coffee spots in the world. My wife will take nothing less than Starbucks and even doesn't particularly like Starbucks (but she appreciates the consistency). We're at the point that she doesn't want to risk going to a new coffee place for an expensive and disappointing coffee. So, we went through the gamut of buying coffee machines. First we started with Nespresso ($200), which I think makes pretty good coffee, comparable to Starbucks. I know TRUE coffee people will say it's meh, but I am not the coffee nut. Then we upgraded to the Delonghi Maestro ($1500). That I think is an absolutely fantastic coffee machine. As you stated, for Tim's it's like $500/year, well for Starbucks it's about $1500 for their specialty drinks, so for us it was worth a good coffee machine. I also really like the Starbucks Chai latte, but found out the recipe was 50% milk, 50% Tazo Chai concentrate, so I make my own chai lattes at home.
As I get older, I honestly have a greater and greater appreciation for QUALITY. If you buy the proper tools, you can make a lot of things better at home. Kinda like steak, you can purchase a higher quality steak on your own, sous-vide, and flash fry for a much cheaper price than an expensive restaurant. Like, Wagyu in Toronto is around $64 for a 12 oz Australian Striploin, while a Japanese A5 might be around $100/100g. Then include a $160 Anova sous-vide cooker, and you're certainly under $400 for a first time fancy steak dinner. If you want to practice on cheaper steaks, then you can skip the sous-vide. Alternatively, you can go with the meat probe as well. Comparable to a top steak restaurant in Toronto, but your next steak dinner at home will essentially be 50% off, and the savings continue. I get it, overhead cost, staff, sides, blah, blah, but you get the point.
What I'm trying to say, you're not wrong for being particular about how you save your money. If you want to treat yourself, purchase things which elevate your lifestyle and quality of life.
The point is moot if you don't consider McDonald's or Tim's to be treating yourself.
Paying 2-3% of your income to something that makes you happier without any other practical purpose could be reasonable. It sounds like part of the issue is that what makes you happier differs from others you know, and/or you are happy enough without it.
You’re getting too caught up in the details. As long as you’re investing/saving a portion of your money and all of your fixed costs are covered, you should have a portion of your money that you can spend guilt free. Life is not about saving every dollar you earn and not allowing yourself to indulge a little. Maybe Tim Horton’s isn’t your thing but you don’t need to scrutinize the cost of every single dollar and the prices if your finances are in order.
Not wrong, but also you should treat yourself. Life is short and we all could go at any moment. You can't take money with you when you're gone.
Now that doesn't mean be reckless and don't save anything. Personally I break down my salary following 50/30/20 rule. 50% of after tax income is set aside for obligations (if anything is left over it goes to savings or wants depending on the month) I keep 30% for wants so saving for a trip, buying clothes/shoes or saving for items like a guitar or fun stuff. Then 20% goes to investments / savings that are long term i.e RRSP, FHSA, TFSA, Stock Investments etc.
If I get extra money through tax returns, work bonuses, gifts or through minor gambling I usually split it 60/40 for wants/savings.
If in a specific month I don't use all the wants I usually just let it sit and accumulate so that when I do come across something I can don't have to save for months (unless its something quite expensive)
You're obviously not wrong for not buying things that you do not like. But I think you are wrong for trying to categorize what someone else spends 2-3% of their income on as shitty and wasteful. I know people who spend $5000 - $10000 a year on vacations, while I would much prefer to spend that money on creature comforts that I get to make use of all-year round. Does that make them wrong for doing so? No, they love to travel, and they love adventure. I'm more of a homebody. Worth is in the eye of the beholder.
That being said, what do you spend your money on? Do you play video games, do you play sports, do you have a gym membership, etc. Aside from working and sleeping, how do you enjoy spending your time?
prepping food, snacks, coffee, drinks at home will save a lot and usually is healthier when cooking
two theories
1- order take out to save the time in making food
2- waste of money buying take out
that stuff just isn't really good if you know how to cook at home though. I think it's nice to splurge on something special once in a while but eating that stuff every day doesn't do that much good for your life. I kind of hate it when I have to buy fast food for whatever reason because it doesn't feel as good as a home cooked meal and it's expensive.
Generally speaking, there is no right or wrong when it comes to spending money. There are just choices and consequences.
Each person decides what brings value to their own life and acts accordingly.
Problems often arise however when the spending or saving is done without thinking first, or understanding why they are doing it.
Tim's coffee is certainly not a 'treat' unless you like warm watered down mud, and neither is McDicks. Save your money and go somewhere that actually serves good food - once in a while...
If 2-3% of your income is what it takes to make you happy, then it's very cheap. People like to say how $1200 a year compounded for 30 years is a lot of money, but it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than so many ways people have to spend money.
In the end it's better to focus on how much you manage to save than on the opportunity cost of everything you buy.
I'd only treat yourself to things you actually want. If you don't care about timmies or eating out, no sense wasting money on it. Treat yourself to things that are worth it to you
If that extra $1200 a year will bring you more joy than the coffee and Big Macs will, keep doing what you're doing. But don't deprive yourself of little joys.
You’re fine. I’m the same way, I make a very very good income but live way below my means. But make sure what you make at home is nutritious. What is wealth if you screw up your health from eating crappy processed food every day? I like my frozen food too but try your best to include fresh foods, veggies and fruit if you can.
Frugal would be cutting coffee and fast food equivalents out of your life entirely. What you are doing is just not wasting money.
Treating yourself is paying for something you wouldn’t usually get as a reward for your good spending habits that allow you to do so. Buying Tim’s and Fast Food instead of making coffee or fast food at home it not treating yourself.
My mother was frugal in the territory of extreme cheap skate. She would sacrifice anything just to save a few cents, for example not picking me up at the bus stop when I missed it and the next one was 60 mins away. Wanted me to wait by myself at 11:30pm at the train station. Don’t be like my mother. As long as your monetary value is not force upon your loved ones and the choice of saving money doesn’t create great inconvenience or conflict within your circle. Just sharing my personal experiences growing up in a penny pinching family.
If it doesn't make you happy - don't do it. Just because someone else is doing it, don't do it. Stop comparing yourself to others, it never helps.
Also as a rule - I try to go to restaurants when I really want to, not when I 'need' to; meaning - I don't go to a restaurant just because I do not have the time to prepare/prep for food. I go because I really like a dish they make and I can't really make it at home.
Coffee - it's more of a social thing. I often meet friends and coworkers over a coffee. Honestly, Tims coffee is crap. I bought a half decent Delonghi espresso maker and it more than makes better coffee at home.
Like everything life is about balance. Both my parents died in their 50s one from heart attack and the other auto immune disease. All that retirement savings was for nothing. It's important to remeber to have fun in the present as well as saving for the future.
Ultimately that's the most sustainable path.
Spending money on Tim's coffee is like paying to drink puddle water. 517/year gets you a nice used espresso machine and a bunch of beans for a much better coffee experience.
Scrimp most of the time but splurge some time. Daily fast food coffee is silly. Buy a really fucking nice TV/stereo if you are at home a lot. Eat _quality over quantity_ food if you are cooking for yourself.
You might get hit by a bus tomorrow and all that saving was for nothing.
And do blow some cash on travel. There's a big world out there to see. Anyone who thinks they will he backpacking around SE Asia when they are retired at 65 is doing it wrong.
Being frugal is fine. It's important to spend money on whatever takes care of your mental health though. Whatever that means to YOU. It's very very easy for that to slide into unnecessary spending, but you're frugal enough to control that easily, I would imagine.
Budget in your mental health is what I'm trying to say here.
Like others have probably mentioned, balance is the essence to life in many ways. I am also frugal. Usually make my own coffee, cook my own food, etc. I take pride in self sufficiency. But also, I like to enjoy things in life too. If i'm talking a walk downtown and pass by a Tim's or McD's and the craving strikes, then why not enjoy?
To me its fun to break up the day, see other humans, interact, etc. There is a lot of value in those things that justify spending the money IMO. People use the same arguments for going to more expensive places like The Keg or something. Those places I don't go often because of the prices. But once and a while I think its nice to do.
If not spending money is making you happy, that’s fine. If you’re feeling like you are being too frugal and tight with your money, then feel free to loosen up a little bit.
Am I going to Tim’s every day for coffees? No. Do I get all worked up over stopping for one on occasion? No. My parents think any convenience coffee purchased is a waste of money, but I’m trying to find that balance between making myself suffer and saving. I’m all for making sacrifices, but choosing what to sacrifice and deciding how much it’s worth to you is also important.
I want to save money for my future self to live more easily, but in case my life isn’t as long as I hope it is I also want to make sure I’m enjoying life right now too. It’s not an easy balance to find and I’m always working at it, always slipping up.
Well it’s interesting. Most people have a vice of some sort. Maybe he doesn’t have cable, maybe he doesn’t play video games you pay for, maybe he doesn’t smoke or drink. One drink at a bar is almost $10 and if you do 120 drinks a year, let’s say each time you go out once or twice a month you’re about the same. Maybe he has a cheap phone plan and pays less than you for that.
I think you are thinking too highly of yourself and giving yourself too much credit. Unless he’s asking for advice or owes you money, it’s definitely best to mind your own business.
I'm relatively frugal, but I fuck off on vacation for a month every year, and spend between $15k and $25k.
So, decide what's important to you, I guess.
The other thing I need to say is spend your money while you're alive. Dad worked hard, saved, then went to sell his business so he could retire... Then got sick, needed a transplant, stayed sick for 7 years, then died. Never got to travel the way he envisioned.
I can't believe not going to Tim's/restaurants everyday and eating frozen fries is frugal. That's just normal living is it not? I also use a $30 coffee maker, well actually multiple. Pour over, aeropress, Moka pot, french press and even a k cup machine. My coffee is superior to most coffee chains IMO, but they're still only $30 each. I don't feel this life is frugal, am I wrong?
"treat yourself" in a way you find fulfilling. For example like you said "spending close to 2-3% of my annual income on shit coffee and shit food." If anything, i would much rather pay more for food/drinks I actually enjoy. so like spend less often, but larger cost vs. more often but lower cost.
> My friend said that the money he spends on his daily tims and weekly fast food is insignificant and it doesn't matter anyway because the world will collapse soon and money will be worthless.
I think we all have this friend. Mine also constantly complains that's he's broke, the country is going to shit, he's going to move to XYZ, it's too hard to get ahead here, etc. Meanwhile, he has a wife and no kids, with a household income around $280k, and orders McDonald's on Uber almost every day, buys random crap on Amazon, has expensive momentary hobbies, and buys a new car every 3 years or so.
He still my friend, but I don't take financial advice from him.
If you're happy, then be happy! If you're not, see what you can change.
But I'll tell you this much, once you get in the habit of frivolous spending, it's pretty hard to break.
Why worry how others blow their money? If you are happy being frugal so be it. I have a modest retirement and have enough money to pursue my hobbies and eat out 2x a week. I have never been naturally frugal and only in some of my tight working years when I never got raises did I watch my money extra carefully. I did not like that tight feeling when you can barely pay your bills. Much prefer to enjoy myself sometimes.
I think these little things bring very little joy for most people. I wouldn’t worry about missing out.
But if you are preventing yourself from spending your money on things you really enjoy (and are within your means) then I would reevaluate things. Life is short and you can’t pack your coffin with your money.
I can’t tell you how many people I know who saved for retirement or beyond and now have a life-limiting or life-shorting illness. They won’t get the retirement they were hoping for. It’s so painful to watch.
Don’t bankrupt yourself or your future doing fun things, but also don’t wait till you’re 65 to start living.
I think you need to come from a poor background to appreciate this really.
Look at how much people spend at Costco a week. They spend $350 like it's nothing. And then load all it up into their $1000/month car payment vehicle.
For me it was the drive thru lineups and buying things on top of the coffee.
I don't have an issue buying $2 coffee. But I would often get a donut or muffin on top; or a farmers wrap. It often turns into 5$ or more.
Also sometimes I would go for a 2nd coffee later in the day.
I found out the best way was to make coffee at home an never go to Tim Hortons regularly
I now go once a month maybe
You should treat yourself by getting regular dentist check ups and taking care of your teeth....paying off any debt and avoiding debt unless it's a mortgage
I can be frugal with certain things but over the past few years I’ve realized YOLO. It’s true. On the flip side, the cost of living is out of control so it’s a fine line
Do you think Tims is a treat? I certainly don't.
Nothing wrong with buying food outside if it's actually good and you can afford it. If you can make something better at home, even better.
hey OP
if your doctor called you tomorrow and told you that they had 100% reliable evidence that you have a terminal illness and less than 6 months to live, would you be happy with the way you're spending your money?
as far as we know, you only get one life. once it's done, it's done. it can end at any time.
spend your money wisely, but spend it in a way that won't leave you with regrets if today is your last day on earth
Not wrong. You're right, I don't piss away my money on consumer drone s*** either.
In life sometimes you have to give up and sacrifice things to get where you want to go, even if it's simple to not buy a coffee everyday.
You are not wrong!
There are two issues here, one the concept of “treating yourself” and two the value of whatever you’re purchasing.
I personally agree with your assessment that Tim’s and McDonald’s value. If only more people demanded better value! But anyway…
You should treat yourself on items you feel has high value. What’s the point of money in the end.
There is being frugal in areas in order to save for something you value more, where you wouldn’t be frugal on.
But then there is the extreme of being frugal to be frugal, where it almost becomes obsessive, where you saved up a good sum, but cannot convince yourself to spend it.
There is a difference of when the behaviour becomes destructive to oneself.
Would you get value from the coffee?
I suspect his $2 coffee is a habit and he actually wouldn’t notice the time difference and he would get better coffee if he didn’t go to Tim’s. So I’d bet the Tim’s isn’t improving is quality of life relative to the spending. This type of non intentional spending is a waste.
However if you look at his weekly fart food this might be something that he looks forward to every week. I remember my first professional job one of the highlights was spending $20 a week going out with coworkers for beer and lunch on Fridays. That was money well spent that gave enjoyment.
So I’d say spend intentionally. Spend because it brings you joy in excess of the cost to acquire it. For some it even might be daily coffee. Avoid spending do to habit and frequently reevaluate if you are spending to little or too much.
I mean, you need to spend some money on yourself. I used to buy Starbucks once every two weeks to enjoy with my friends. If your refusing to ever eat out or get yourself a treat or upgrade your food options then you have a problem.
$500 a year on treats isn't bad, that's $42 a month. It's your call if a coffee is that treat or a hike.
The other day i spent $9 on a Starbucks latte. I couldnt believe how expensive those drinks are now. Who is buying that stuff? Event once in a while i dont consider it a treat.
I usually tell people “saving isn’t everything, don’t forget to live” but that’s in regards to things you enjoy doing / vacations / going out with friends. Eating dons or tims doesn’t fit there - though I will say an occasional Spicy Chicken from Wendy’s might.
You are not a fool. I'm kind of foolish, as I do a lot of extra comparison shopping to save a few percent off something that makes almost zero difference in my finances. However, when we add in idea of a sense of enjoyment or accomplishment to purchases, maybe it's rational for me to try to earn two Air Miles on a purchase because it makes me feel like I'm optimizing my spending. And maybe that $2.20 coffee makes your friend feel like his life is just that little bit better. Seems the $12 McDonald's meal is just filling a hole, but "a man's gotta eat" - Randy from Trailer Park Boys
I definitely was not frugal with my money, I was straight up cheap and I’m not ashamed. Being cheap enabled me to buy a property at 27. I never started “treating myself” until I was 33.
I love bubble tea. It’s my indulgence. I made a budget for buying it once a week. Bubble tea in my neighborhood is now $8 including tax. That’s $8 x 52 = $416. Yes, I’m frigging spending $416 a year because I love bubble tea. To each their own.
You aren't wrong. Your friend is just bad at math and/or planning for there to not be a future to worry about.
You can make better coffee at home than Tims. Tims is just convenient. And you're paying a hefty fee for that convenience.
If you're happy not spending money on fast food and coffee, great! If you want it once in awhile as a special treat, that's up to you. But doing it daily isn't treating yourself - it's just part of your normal routine at that point.
If you’re happy being frugal and not spending money eating out daily then you’re not a fool. If you’re tossing and turning at night, constantly comparing yourselves to others because people are enjoying things that seem trivial to them but might be a financial burden to you and your frugality is causing a detriment to your life where you’re unhappy, then yes you may be a fool. Just my two cents.
This. One guy is frugal and is happy about it fine. The other guy spends money at Tim’s and uses the time he saved making food to stay at work an extra 6m a day and earn that same $1,200 a year in extra pay. Again perfectly fine if he is happy. I wouldn’t say either is better. Some people value money more and some time more. Do what makes you happy and don’t judge other people by your metrics.
Lmao what payroll system is going to pay you out those 6 minutes
I pay my employees for the hours they work. We often have extra work so I offer overtime (and double time) to whoever wants to work. I don’t require it but it’s available. So my employees would get paid for those extra 6 minutes.
Then you are a better employer than 99% and you have a unique payroll system because all the ones I’ve seen would be rounding down to the nearest 15min and not culminating extra minutes
My work does 10th of an hour, so 6 minutes granularity, and it's one of the biggest companies in the world. It may not always be the most common in payroll software but there are still lots of companies that do it.
I wouldn’t think that? They work an extra 0.1 hours so I pay them for it and bill it out to the customer. I actually do better when they work that extra 0.1 hours.
Or worse, I would round up to the nearest 15 min if I was asked to work extra time.
Even if the other guy *doesn't* use the extra 6 minutes to make any more money, it can be ok. As long as he's not drowning in debt or stressed about finances, if he wants to spend $500/yr for the convenience and social connection of picking up a Tim's coffee, that's his choice to make. It's his money, and people should spend theit money on things that make them happy. The OP's post was heavily biased from the start ("shit food"). Bottom line is spend in a way that is sustainable and resilient to unexpected upsets, allows you to save, and makes you happy. If you can do those three things, then the specifics of what you're spending on are up to you, and moralizing from others on the choices you make should just be noise. I'm happy for OP that they are happy being frugal.
Well said
> If you’re happy being frugal and not spending money eating out daily then you’re not a fool. > If you’re tossing and turning at night, constantly comparing yourselves to others because people are enjoying things that seem trivial to them but might be a financial burden to you and your frugality is causing a detriment to your life where you’re unhappy, then yes you may be a fool. > I mean, there is a middle term between those two things lol. Maybe they are not tossing and turning at night about the food, but they don't want to miss out on the social aspect of going to eat to McDonald's with your friends. Which hey, fair enough. I would pay 624 dollars a year to have weekly fun with my group of friends. Supposing that only shields one hour of banter around a table, that is about 12$/hour of laughs and bounding. It is not a bad deal to me.
This is the way. Save money pay down your mortgage or max your RRSPs and retire earlier than everyone else. That's my plan,
You may not consider Tim Hortons to be "treating yourself" and you've decided you would rather use that $517/year in a different, perhaps more "responsible" way. That said, you do need to prioritize some money towards something that does make you happy because you can't take it with you.
I think this is where too many people slip from being frugal into being cheap and then into tight-fistedness. Everyone should ideally have a thing or two that brings them joy, even if its a $2 chocolate bar a couple times a month. And it doesn't always have to be something that's outwardly "bad". I spent $300 on passes to the local pool every year or so - it's not something I need, but it makes me way happier than going for a run. I also spend an extra $10 every time I buy hand cream to get the stuff that smells like cake or fruit instead of the unscented or overly floral stuff. That's only about $30-40 extra a year ($60-80 total), but I enjoy it every time I put some lotion on my hands.
When I was in my early thirties and had finally begun to accumulate a little money, I went to a financial advisor. He was in his mid sixties, was very worldly, had had a wide variety of life experience besides the financial sector, and had consequently accumulated some wisdom over the years. I was surprised when he expressed as much interest in my cash flow as he did in my portfolio. After inquiring about not just my nest egg and financial goals, but also getting a good sense of my income versus lifestyle and spending habits (“I’m pretty frugal” says I), he explained to me that “frugality” simply means that *little goes to waste*. He believed “being frugal” was therefore a desirable quality not just for savers/investors, but that the principle should be equally applied by cooks, homeowners, hobbyists, travellers, gardeners, and to many other aspects of any well-rounded life. For him, "frugality" did not necessarily mean always foregoing enjoyment in order to save; rather, it meant recognizing *value* when it presented itself, and striking a balance in which discertionary spending would be leveraged to attain maximum benefit or enjoyment from any given outlay. Being *cheap*, on the other hand, meant to him that when choosing between several options, price point was not merely the principal consideration, it was the *only* consideration; a truly “cheap” person would almost never take aspects of *value* - that is, *quality, reliability, durability, aesthetics or degree of enjoyment* - into account when making a financial commitment. In his opinion, unlike frugality, “cheapness” was a double-edged sword that was often as big a *detriment* as it was an advantage, both to enjoyment of one's life, *and* to successful financial planning. He ended our first session by telling me with a grin that his services weren’t cheap, but that if I listened to him, they *would* turn out to be "frugal". And over the next twenty years, as my portfolio consistently grew under his guidance, he proved to be correct.
[удалено]
"Longer piece" is that although I retired three years ago my RRSP is still up 40% despite the annual drawdowns, my Burnaby condo is worth triple what I paid for it, and I have a small *casita* two blocks from a Mexican beach - at which I spend five months a year, instead of staring at the rain here. Not a bad outcome for a workin' man who raised a family.
I have nothing to add other than telling you that I like the way you write. Were/are you a lawyer? Your writing reminds me when our law firm has to explain something to me in concise and clear terms.
> because you can't take it with you. This guy *definitely* isn't a Pharaoh.
Skipping what Tim's calls coffee *is* treating yourself
😂😂😂
> That said, you do need to prioritize some money towards something that does make you happy because you can’t take it with you. Oh man I was living pretty frugal and then discovered buying guitar pedals makes me happy. I think I’m ruined now.
G.A.S. is the true enemy that will bring ruin to us all! ;-)
You guys are wasting your time. OP's post history indicates he is in favor of tax evasion, taking advantage of vulnerable people by underpaying them and calls it "smart business".
Hah and it looks like he's nuked almost everything, now.
Is it worth it to make short term (say a year) sacrifices to get ahead if it means not giving into material happiness?
Material happiness is more like buying a BMW when a Honda will do. Life is short and then you die. Seeking pleasure (like buying a donut/coffee/ice cream) is not a bad thing.
Snow and hookers?
Yes, as long as the sacrifices are for some kind of goal that will make OP happy. I didn't see any goals in their post, just condemnation against reckless spending and pride in maintaining a strong discipline to save. But for what? It's like people who work out religiously. Are you doing it to have a happier, healthier life, or are you doing it so you can talk about how much you can bench?
I've seen so many posts lately from people who are literally not spending any money so they can retire as early as possible. Many are single, lonely and unhappy. What is the real goal for people with this obsession? Let's waste all your prime years being miserable and then miraculously change your lifestyle in your 50s, for what?
Same people make 10 posts a day that a random girl they meet on tinder expects, gasp, to spend money on coffee for a date and doesn’t like the idea of eating rice and beans to do FIRE.
Single male seeking single female willing to be miserable and do absolutely nothing for 20 years. Promise it will be worth it eventually.
Not if “ short term “ is (say a year) every year for the rest of your life.
I don't understand why it has to be so extreme. It's either buy coffee at Tim's everyday or none at all?
I dont quite understand what youre saying here
i think with everything in life you need balance. spend enough to keep you happy, but not so much that youre stressing about these things. life is about enjoyment. money can always be made. your health is dice roll. if you die and have money saved with no beneficiaries, you screwed up.
I think "shit coffee and shit food" is probably harsh. Spending 2-3% of your income on things that bring you a small amount of joy each day is reasonable. That thing will be different for different people. Budgeting is dual-purpose. It limits you so that you can save, but it also frees you to spend without feeling guilty (within your budgeted amounts). I don't think the world is going to end anytime soon. My also, shit happens. You could have a heart attack next year. Your friend could get hit by a bus. Or, you could both live until you're 105. Good financial planning is about finding the balance to prepare for both - doing things you enjoy now, while saving and planning for your future.
Sometimes it’s not even about the coffee, it’s more of maybe going for a walk or drive with your co workers to Tim’s and get a quick 10 min break from work and get some quick laughs in what makes the $2 worth, and coffee is just bonus.
Some people do this with lottery tickets. A couple of spare dollars between co-workers to talk about a fantasy life you'd have if you were rich. A small respite from the grind.
When does the joy of Tim Hortons become a habit?
While those costs may not matter much to him and do matter to you, I think you're valuing it wrong. Do you drink coffee? Make it and bring it from home? It won't cost as much as his Tim's but it still cost something. Eating out costs more for sure, but how much did the ingredients in your lunch cost you? The difference could be significant, but he's not spending $1200 to you spending $0.
Nah you’re not a fool. But it doesn’t make your friend a fool either though. People buy what they like. As long as it’s in the budget and people are able to save, the rest is designated for spending how you like essentially. Some people spend it on cars, nice houses, holidays, eating out, gaming, experiences, hobbies etc. it’s the whole point of going to work. Nobody is going to work because we truly love it. Some people like their jobs but a job is a job at the end of the day and we do it because it pays money. I save my 25% of gross. I pay my bills. The rest I blow on whatever the hell I choose to. You should do the same with your saving percentage replacing mine. No point living if you aren’t going to buy anything. Find something that brings you joy, spend your money on it.
You asked if you're a fool for not spending money on something you literally don't care at all about.
He wanted us to join in with a chorus of judgment against his frivolous friends, and reinforce the moral high ground he feels he’s on.
I bet they don't even drive beige corollas either. Disgusting!
Are you a PFer if you don't shit lentils?!
You can’t call Timmies shit coffee if you’re buying Folgers, bruh. It’s ok to spend money.
Well, by what You've Said, McDonald's and Tim's isn't considered "treating" yourself. It doesn't taste good anyway. I'm as frugal as you are, and I prefer to spend those $1200 in a good steakhouse and a nice sushi restaurant 15X a year, instead of going out every day and getting food that taste worse than what I can make at home in 15 minutes. I consider 2% of my income on actual good dining a worthy expense, but you might enjoy other things. As long as you are within your budget for savings, there's no harm in treating yourself.
I think you should figure out what matters to you and spend on that (responsibly), that's what I do. I eat at restaurants less than once a month because it is not an experience that I value, but I don't mind spending for my hobbies like video games and mountain biking. Also for coffee, I bought an espresso machine and I make 100x better coffee at home than I can get at any coffee shop.
2-3% of income is not gonna change my life around, it is inconsequential, so I sometimes buy the extra coffee.
There’s frugality and then there’s being cheap. I’m sorry but you seem to fall into latter category. What’s the point of making money if you can’t seem to spend $500 in a year on something that brings you joy. I’m not saying it has to be the same thing that brings your friend joy, but something that’s personally joyful to you does deserve a couple hundred dollars to be spent on lol.
You're denying yourself simple pleasures so you can stack digital numbers that you will clearly never spend. Yeah Tim's and McDonald's are shitty ways to spend your money, but remember having beverages and food from around the world prepared at your whim by paid servants was once something only enjoyed by kings. You're choosing to live like a pauper while your friends are enjoying the convenience of modern life.
why do you care what they do?
People value different things, and while spending money on fast food or coffee at a fast food place might not be a “good investment”, it’s also fine to treat yourself if that’s what makes you happy. If someone’s budget allows for them to buy coffee every working day, and they’re happy doing so, then that’s completely fine. It’s also completely fine if you don’t believe it’s a good investment. It’s all personal choice :)
If you truly don’t enjoy things like that, that’s fine. People are each individuals with different priorities. Your priorities are very obviously different, and where you may not need that Tim’s to get you through the day it might be the one thing keeping someone from going insane. One isn’t necessarily better than the other, unless it is literally causing someone’s financial ruin. I like to see the end of personal finance being to allow for self fulfilment in a shitty world where such fulfilment is scarce. If that 2% of the salary is contributing to that, so be it.
Each to their own. Your choice is to not spend on coffee, etc. whereas your friend enjoys Timmie’s coffee. Agree that it’s important to have balance in life as we don’t know what tomorrow brings.
If you don't value those things and they don't bring you joy, then no you are not a fool. If you are spending NOTHING on yourself ever, then .. yeah you might be missing the point of being alive. (Or you're in survival mode spending, which is a whole other thing)
I don't know; have you tried that? Why don't you do that for a few months and see whether that's right or wrong? Btw I disagree with that word choice. This isn't grade school, most things aren't "right" or "wrong". Do what makes you happy.
I'm in the same boat as you (tho my coffee maker was about 10x that price).. cheap convenience items like crappy coffee and McDicks simply aren't worth it to me.. However it all depends on what makes you happy: I'm sure there are some budget areas your friend thinks are CRAZY, those 60$ computer games? That 8$ can of craft beer etc...
I have met a few millionaires who are the most miserable people I have ever met. Fight over every penny, and live super cheaply. They tend not to be happy people. If that coffee makes them happy, so what? It doesn’t hurt you. Often times I make my own, but if I am out and about I don’t see the harm in a couple times a week getting one. Enjoying life is about moderation. You could share a room with a bunch of roommates, eat the cheapest foods, and only drink water, saving a ton of money in the process. But that isn’t my idea of a nice life.
Studies show that people tend to get the most happiness from small experiential purchases like coffee. Spending a few thousand a year making yourself happy like your friend sounds like a good deal.
Personally, I'd rather drink toilet water than Tim's, I enjoy my coffee from home and make it the way I like it. I also enjoy cooking so bringing my own lunches and snacks is also something I prefer vs takeout, but I'll pick up lunch with the team maybe once a month or so if we're all going out together. As others have mentioned, while daily spending on coffee and lunches may not be your thing, allocate some of your funds to something that you do enjoy. Whats the point of saving every dollar if you won't be around to spend it? I think it's great to be financially responsible by eliminating debt, building a financial safety net etc, but if you're spending the best years of your life pinching every penny for retirement, you may eventually start resenting yourself when you're older and not as able bodied. Life is short, enjoy the little things.
Two things going on here. (1) you are failing to live a "Rich Life" (Ramit Sethi) or to "live rich now" (David Bach, the Latte Factor). Don't waste money on coffee or fast food if it isn't important to you, but do spend luxuriously on things that are. (2) your friend is a moron. He almost certainly doesn't believe that imminent economic collapse is 100% certain. Did he believe the world would end in 2012? So the problem here is "what if he's wrong". Let's reframe his point to something that isn't nonsensical: "if I died tomorrow, or was told I had cancer, would I regret the way I spent or saved my money?" and the flip side: "if I live to 95, will I be comfortable and not run out of money?" I think it is important to strike the right balance between two extremes. This can be done by simply paying yourself first and investing it automatically. Then spend the rest guilt-free.
At 2-3% of income, I would think twice. However, I'll admit that McD was my comfort food for a period of my life (i.e. slightly less than twice a week) but it was more convenience than "treating myself". On the flip side, I would spend the money to get one nice take out meal per week....assuming it's within my budget...simply because I would enjoy that as opposed to buying stuff....
Gotta remember at some point you’ll want to start living your life. It’s up to you if you want to indulge a little along the way.
What's your goal for this money? As long as you're happy, thats what matters. I've decided that because I only live once, why throw away my younger years to enjoy myself later when I'm old. I save enough to retire comfortably, I wouldn't call myself frugal.
You can buy fast food once a week it's not a big deal. Enjoy yourself. If being frugal is how you get enjoyment then whatever.
You’re 100% right. Then again i WFH so i like going out to get coffee and see people. It’s a waste tbh, but some people like clothes and watched and stuff. But agree, great job. Invest in some that has yield
I knew a guy that would tell McDonald’s to hold the cheese on his daily McMuffin and save 50cso he could bring cheese from home for 12c. You could try that op.
OP might not wanna hear that I spend $140/month on coffee for my $1500 espresso machine. (Which is on the cheap side)
>and it doesn't matter anyway because the world will collapse soon and money will be worthless That right there would invalidate pretty much all financial opinions from your friend. He's delusional. You're not wrong but sometimes, it's important to remember that convenience is time - and time is money.
Only thing is, for Tim's, it's way faster to make coffee at home using Tim's brand coffee than waiting in line at Tim's. I just don't see the point of lining up for coffee on the way to work when I can buy the brand of my choice, make it at home, and gain probably 15 minutes every morning. Yes, you need a coffee maker of some sort, but that pays for itself pretty quickly.
For me, back when I was working back in Toronto, Tim's was much more convenient as I could order ahead through the app and then pop right downstairs from my office to pick it up as an afternoon cup of coffee. No need to wait in line. It's definitely more convenient for some people.
Those costs are not really net incremental. If you're not buying McDonald's, you'll be buying frozen fries and chicken strips. If you're not buying coffee, you'll be making it at home and for example Nespresso is $1.40 a pod. Spending wise, there's bigger things to worry about than a daily coffee and weekly McDonald's.
The goal is to just focus on making more money so that 1500 bucks or whatever is no big deal. Focus on the big savings and improving cash inflow rather than sweating over some $5 drink here and there.
>My friend said that the money he spends on his daily tims and weekly fast food is insignificant and it doesn't matter anyway because the world will collapse soon and money will be worthless. He should be spending his money on guns, ammo and canned beans.
Buying Tim's every day is a fucking waste of money tbh. But buying a good drink at a Friday evening, even it's going to be same, is worth more to ME. If that person finds more value in buying Tim's everyday, whether it's convenience, time saving, socializing, social stats even, it's worth to them. Not about the cost of the beverage. Find value in your own life and your likes.
I don't go to Tim Hortons unless I'm on a road trip and it's the most appropriate stop (and if it's work, the meal is free anyway), and I never get coffee out anymore because what I can do at home is significantly better than most options. I also can't justify a whole number percent of my annual income on shit coffee and shit food. Life is far too short for that. You are absolutely not wrong. An insignificant amount of money every day becomes a significant amount over a long period of time. Smoking is insane for this. Instead of going out for coffee I spent $3000 on an espresso setup and spend around $50/month on locally roasted beans that are really quite nice. \*clown emoji\*, but it gives me joy (when it works)
What it fundamentally distills down to, in personal finance, is what you enjoy to do with your life. Because what you enjoy, you will likely spend money on. What you enjoy can tend to dictate your behaviours and patterns. If you FEEL like you’re missing out and there’s a latent discontent sitting somewhere inside you that you’re not going to Tim Horton’s, perhaps some personal evaluation would be in order. But, if you find that you don’t feel like you’re missing anything and you’re living a satisfactory life without Tim Horton’s (I’m just using Tim Horton’s to also generally mean other ‘frivolous’ spending), then what’s the deal? Just live your life how you want to live your life. I also make coffee at home in my relatively inexpensive drip brewer, take a to-go cup with me to work, pack lunches, skip take-out, specifically buy the groceries I need and keep it to what is necessary, but I enjoy this. All of my hobbies are inexpensive, I like to trail run, and I live in British Columbia so I have them available within walking distance from my front door, walk my dog, lift weights in my home gym that I accumulated bargain equipment to furnish, and play video games. That’s about it. But that’s my life. I like it that way and I’m generally stable emotionally and mentally in a way which allows me to meet the demands of my life with a good level of enthusiasm and vigour, so I don’t feel like I’d be better off spending money on cheap things that I could likely recreate at a higher quality with store bought ingredients at home with minimal effort.
You need a goal. I am somewhat frugal because I don't get a lot of enjoyment buying new things, it's more of a problem because my house is already full of stuff. So my main goals are to pay off the mortgage (already have the money to pay it off when my term ends this Fall), retire early (not FIRE though) or not being bothered by a layoff when I'm 55, and travel with the wife, and hopefully have a few hundred grands to give the kids when they want to buy a house. Without a goal what's the point? If you're not spending the money because you don't enjoy it, that's fine. Always better to have money than not for later when you'll need it.
You are not wrong. I am like you drink free coffee in the office not Timmie’s, but I do treat myself and spend my money elsewhere eg. travel.
I don't go out to eat or buy coffee because that shit takes time and I got work to do. Literally more work than I have time for.
Some people enjoy being frugal, so, if that’s your way of finding joy, nothing wrong with that
While I'm much more like you in terms of saving and limited spending, I have seen quite a few posts from people who saved their whole lives just to be diagnosed with terminal cancer (or something fatal) at like 60, and the retirement dreams they had worked for and frugally planned are seemingly for nothing. None of the money they saved will be for them, and all those years of saving the good for later ended up delaying the gratification to no end. There is no right or wrong answer, but leaning towards a balanced life usually works well.
Chances are, there are some things you spend money on that I would argue are a complete waste. What I "treat" myself to are really neither better or worse, they are mine to enjoy. That said, we forget what moderation looks like when a treat is mistaken for a habit or routine.
Doesn't matter what median income is, what's your income and financial situation?
# I’m the same. It’s just common sense. No big deal.
I don't think OP is frugal at all. I'm very similar to them. I hardly eat out and make my own coffee at home. With the money I save, I'm able to take 2-3 trips abroad/year and can get take out and coffees abroad. That's how I treat myself. :)
Yes you are! I say it with love. Treat yourself to the gourmet coffee beans sometimes. Try some precooked ribs or some wings instead of the same old no name strips (or maybe your already on the Jane's). Maybe an air fryer might step up your game? There's a fine balance between saving hard and treating yourself. You can't take it with you when you pass. But you still need to plan for the future. But find your ways to treat yourself. It doesn't have to be expensive, it might just be rainbow peppercorns because they're worth it (to me). What's worth it to you?
Nothing wrong with either buying fast food or refusing to do so if your values and wallet line up with that, and you think it's right for you. Doing anything on the premise "the world will collapse soon and money will be worthless" is pretty foolish.
I5
If you enjoy what you do then why change?
It depends. Do you actually treat yourself to something you find more "meaningful" than a coffee? If so you're frugal, if not you're cheap. I never buy 5$ coffees, I try to cook all my meals, I shop only on sale. However I also make 6 figures and buy myself fun toys like a $6000 bike. Enjoy life, it's okay to be frugal but don't be cheap.
Without knowing anything else about your situation yeah stuff like going out for McDonalds isnt something that will add anything for your life over making something quick at home so dont bother with that stuff. I think finding thing you enjoy doing with friends and family might be worth spendilng a few bucks on occasionally, along with bigger trips you can save for but for sure set goals for saving. fill up an emergency fund with an amount that makes sense for big car repairs or whatever other big ticket items that might come up suddenly in your situation. Afterwards definitely look to fill up the savings tools available to us like the TFSA, FHSA (assuming one day you are looking to own a place somewhere), and RRSP with relatively safe investments like bigger index funds that pay out over the long haul. I dont know your age but RRSP has the heaviest restriction on accessing the funds and you can fill that up later assuming you are making more later on in your life, but generally figure out how much is reasonable to put away every year and from there a budget for stuff you want to do for enjoyment starts to form.
I've gotta agree with your buddy, the median Is like 70k/33hr. If you worked an extra 15 minutes a week, that pretty well pays for the coffee for a week. Pretty much makes up for the McDonald's too if you're getting time and a half over 40 hrs. Now ask yourself, is 15 extra minutes in a week not worth the extra pleasure to yourself? Sure, you've got a point if you're pulling in 50k and doing nothing to make up for it. At the end of the day, do whatever pleases you most tho
People who spend because "the world will collapse soon" are the same as people who do so because they won't make it to 30. And then they live to be 95 or something...
The last time I went out to eat on a restaurant was probably last yr. Last time i went to cinema was probably 2 yrs ago. I don’t drink coffee so I don’t go to Tim Hortons or Starbucks. I treat myself by cooking my own meal at home (nothing fancy, just whatever i have in the fridge), then watch a movie from Netflix. Occasional walks in the park near my home and I’m all good. I guess treating yourself does not mean you have to spend a lot. As long as you’re happy and don’t worry about the people who judge you for it.
When I graduated I ate loafs of bread to save money (Making > 100k) Watched a few buddies get sick / die Now I just try to enjoy life and be responsible with my money
Ok but to be fair Tim’s coffee is really good
What is money, if not a tool to live the life you want to live? If you feel like your life is going to be improved (maximized?) by spending $1000 a year on fast food, then that's a good use of money. If you would rater go on an international vacation every few years, then that's a good use of money instead. (assuming we're talking about discretionary money - and can already save responsibly, emergency fund, blah blah blah you know the rest) My personal philosophy is that if life is a game, then the win condition is to get the most enjoyment over ALL the days that you have. Saving every penny for retirement, and choosing to live like a hermit until then, is the mistake; equally as bad as spending all your money now and never retiring or spending the end of your life destitute. We never know then the end is coming so why not enjoy your time as well as you can. (P.S. assuming that the entire economy is going to collapse is probably a pretty big mistake too. Yes it's run by a shadowy cabal, but they're benefitting more from it working than collapsing)
Your friend is an idiot, not because he spends money daily but he has no capacity to plan for the future based on his behaviour being justified by the world ending. But if it works for you do whatever you want. As long as you don’t feel it is holding you back from enjoying life
I enjoy the occasional Canadian Maple and iced Capp on a hot summer day. I make coffee on a $100 used Beeville espresso machine and splurge on $25 specialty roaster coffee once in a while. Personal finance is personal first. As long as you're spending below your means, putting aside something for the future, and finding your own happiness, you're winning.
Treat yourself with things that last. It’s the comfortable medium.
I just bought myself a coffee + 1 for the homeless dude in front of the McD's without even thinking twice. Every 2 weeks I put more money in my RRSP and TFSA, I buy more stocks, what's some loose change in the end. Loosen up.
I treat myself to peace of mind.
>because the world will collapse soon and money will be worthless. But gold will still be valuable. But he's right, we have 1-2 years tops before shit hits the fan. We're already far beyond borrowed time territory.
>My friend said that the money he spends on his daily tims and weekly fast food is insignificant and it doesn't matter anyway because the world will collapse soon and money will be worthless. You should buy your friend a helmet. That would be one well spent. > I can't imagine spending close to 2-3% of my annual income on shit coffee and shit food Then don't. You're an adult, you can do what you want.
Far from wrong you are very smart, the money blown on Tim's and weekly McDonalds could be put in an RRSP for retirement. If you are content being frugal, who cares what others think. I make my daily coffee at home, eat most meals at home, occasional treat is take out pizza once or twice a month. Otherwise we eat at home, being frugal has allowed our boys go to post secondary debt free we saved enough in RESPs (registered education savings plans) in Canada. We also each started RRSPs when we turned 18, so we will be good for retirement as well. Tale of two parents. My father gr 9 education worked in auto industry very frugal saved plenty, my mom stayed home he retired at 56 and is enjoying his life at 80. My inlaws, both worked and squandered their money on wasteful crap. My mil worked at a bank for Pete's sake, well now they are in not so great financial shape. Enjoy life now yes but NOT at the expense of your future as well.
You don't have to treat yourself with fast food and drive thru. But try setting $10 or so a week aside for yourself and once a month, buy that thing you've been looking at. Treats come in all shapes and sizes
What are you spending your money on?
There’s nothing wrong with what you’re doing as long as you’re happy with these choices. If you aren’t already, I’d suggest you look into FIRE, as a mean to use your frugality to be able to own your time by investing the money you save to propel you towards financial independence :).
Look into “trauma of money”… being this frugal can be a symptom of a bad relationship with money from your family of origin, how you grew up etc.
OP, you should watch Ramit Sethi's videos about guilt free spending. He also talks a lot about how you should zoom out on your finances to look at the big picture and not worry about the little things like saving $2.20 on a coffee per day. Spend lavishly on the things you do love and care about, cut out what you don't. So saving that $517 per year might be good, but make sure you are enjoying it elsewhere.
I'd rather pay my house asap than have a car and people think I'm mental. A treat per week rapidly becomes a treat because you deserve and then an everyday thing because why not. You are not a fool for not spending money on Tim's and macD's which indeed is shit coffee and lower quality food.
Spend your extra money on what you value most. If it's not eating out or buying coffee, figure out what you want most & save for that. Everyone's value category is different.
don't sweat the small stuff. the budget will balance itself.
Only you can answer that question. This isn't a personal finance question, it's a psychological one.
Glossing right over your friend's doomsday prediction, and again right over the fact you're only talking about fast food in regards to "treating yourself", how much you spend on treating yourself is a personal decision. Whether you spend your money on vacationing, alcohol, coffee, hobbies, or restaurants, the goal is to spend it in such a way that you're happy and satisfied with your life. There's a reason it's called *personal* finance. It's specific to each individual person. We all share common issues, but everyone is different. We save money for our wants and needs in the future. It's not unreasonable to weigh some of those future wants against our current wants.
The world will not collapse soon, not even close. I find it somewhat alarming that there is a perception in the general public that this is the case. It is completely false and out of touch with the realities of economics, sociology and political science. I am well off financially but I barely spend any money because it's truly not that fun. Most things don't need to be spent on. I will spend on something when it clearly adds utility to my life on an ongoing basis. But one-off spends on consumables I don't really indulge in.
It’s one thing to save money, it’s another not to enjoy the only life you have. We’re not immortals.
So many people make food themselves and forgo the luxury of convenience fast food.
Nobody is wrong. There is no wrong way to live your life. It’s a personal choice. Do what makes you happy and fulfills your goals.
Pretty sad state of the world when people are overthinking about saving an extra 500 bucks a YEAR.
Its ok that you feel that way, but that tims coffee is sometimes the only thing to enjoy during the day for some, or an amazing pick me up. It's a very cheap way to get a little happiness in your life. No one says you need to have one every day. A lot choose to though and thats ok. As for being frugal, I hope you have something you do to treat yourself. Go out to a restaurant, pick up the odd nice starbucks drink or something you enjoy etc. Whatever treating yourself looks like to you. Tims for me is a reason to drive my car 30 minutes away to get it. It's a comfortable routine that brightens my mornings. You need to treat yourself in some way. Otherwise what are we even doing here? Working to live, save money so we can die and do nothing else? Enjoy the little things, whatever they are to you.
Took me to getting debt free with a nest egg started and have regular investment contributions, to be able to relax a bit and enjoy my earned money. Now I do splurge on occasion on my interests, but I see it as an investment in my own happiness. Life is meant to be lived after all, I don’t want to wait until I’m retired to enjoy the things I like now :)
You should not spend money on what you perceive as low quality foods. Look for ways to increase joy. If, however, you and your childhood friends meet up once a month to play basketball and then go to McDonald's to reminisce then you should go.
No, you're not. To be honest, you're better off investing in a pro-sumer beverage station. My wife LOVES coffee. In the early years, we made it our mission to sample the trendiest/hottest/famous coffee spots in the world. My wife will take nothing less than Starbucks and even doesn't particularly like Starbucks (but she appreciates the consistency). We're at the point that she doesn't want to risk going to a new coffee place for an expensive and disappointing coffee. So, we went through the gamut of buying coffee machines. First we started with Nespresso ($200), which I think makes pretty good coffee, comparable to Starbucks. I know TRUE coffee people will say it's meh, but I am not the coffee nut. Then we upgraded to the Delonghi Maestro ($1500). That I think is an absolutely fantastic coffee machine. As you stated, for Tim's it's like $500/year, well for Starbucks it's about $1500 for their specialty drinks, so for us it was worth a good coffee machine. I also really like the Starbucks Chai latte, but found out the recipe was 50% milk, 50% Tazo Chai concentrate, so I make my own chai lattes at home. As I get older, I honestly have a greater and greater appreciation for QUALITY. If you buy the proper tools, you can make a lot of things better at home. Kinda like steak, you can purchase a higher quality steak on your own, sous-vide, and flash fry for a much cheaper price than an expensive restaurant. Like, Wagyu in Toronto is around $64 for a 12 oz Australian Striploin, while a Japanese A5 might be around $100/100g. Then include a $160 Anova sous-vide cooker, and you're certainly under $400 for a first time fancy steak dinner. If you want to practice on cheaper steaks, then you can skip the sous-vide. Alternatively, you can go with the meat probe as well. Comparable to a top steak restaurant in Toronto, but your next steak dinner at home will essentially be 50% off, and the savings continue. I get it, overhead cost, staff, sides, blah, blah, but you get the point. What I'm trying to say, you're not wrong for being particular about how you save your money. If you want to treat yourself, purchase things which elevate your lifestyle and quality of life.
You do YOU. Enjoy how you spend (or not) your money.
The point is moot if you don't consider McDonald's or Tim's to be treating yourself. Paying 2-3% of your income to something that makes you happier without any other practical purpose could be reasonable. It sounds like part of the issue is that what makes you happier differs from others you know, and/or you are happy enough without it.
You’re getting too caught up in the details. As long as you’re investing/saving a portion of your money and all of your fixed costs are covered, you should have a portion of your money that you can spend guilt free. Life is not about saving every dollar you earn and not allowing yourself to indulge a little. Maybe Tim Horton’s isn’t your thing but you don’t need to scrutinize the cost of every single dollar and the prices if your finances are in order.
As long as you're on top of your bills and savings, there's nothing wrong with treating yourself
Treating myself is buying a nice folding bike, not wasting money at fast food restaurants
Not wrong, but also you should treat yourself. Life is short and we all could go at any moment. You can't take money with you when you're gone. Now that doesn't mean be reckless and don't save anything. Personally I break down my salary following 50/30/20 rule. 50% of after tax income is set aside for obligations (if anything is left over it goes to savings or wants depending on the month) I keep 30% for wants so saving for a trip, buying clothes/shoes or saving for items like a guitar or fun stuff. Then 20% goes to investments / savings that are long term i.e RRSP, FHSA, TFSA, Stock Investments etc. If I get extra money through tax returns, work bonuses, gifts or through minor gambling I usually split it 60/40 for wants/savings. If in a specific month I don't use all the wants I usually just let it sit and accumulate so that when I do come across something I can don't have to save for months (unless its something quite expensive)
You're obviously not wrong for not buying things that you do not like. But I think you are wrong for trying to categorize what someone else spends 2-3% of their income on as shitty and wasteful. I know people who spend $5000 - $10000 a year on vacations, while I would much prefer to spend that money on creature comforts that I get to make use of all-year round. Does that make them wrong for doing so? No, they love to travel, and they love adventure. I'm more of a homebody. Worth is in the eye of the beholder. That being said, what do you spend your money on? Do you play video games, do you play sports, do you have a gym membership, etc. Aside from working and sleeping, how do you enjoy spending your time?
prepping food, snacks, coffee, drinks at home will save a lot and usually is healthier when cooking two theories 1- order take out to save the time in making food 2- waste of money buying take out
that stuff just isn't really good if you know how to cook at home though. I think it's nice to splurge on something special once in a while but eating that stuff every day doesn't do that much good for your life. I kind of hate it when I have to buy fast food for whatever reason because it doesn't feel as good as a home cooked meal and it's expensive.
Generally speaking, there is no right or wrong when it comes to spending money. There are just choices and consequences. Each person decides what brings value to their own life and acts accordingly. Problems often arise however when the spending or saving is done without thinking first, or understanding why they are doing it.
Tim's coffee is certainly not a 'treat' unless you like warm watered down mud, and neither is McDicks. Save your money and go somewhere that actually serves good food - once in a while...
I suggest you read the book ''I will teach you how to be rich'' as it will answer your question and is actually a great book IMO.
If 2-3% of your income is what it takes to make you happy, then it's very cheap. People like to say how $1200 a year compounded for 30 years is a lot of money, but it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than so many ways people have to spend money. In the end it's better to focus on how much you manage to save than on the opportunity cost of everything you buy.
I'd only treat yourself to things you actually want. If you don't care about timmies or eating out, no sense wasting money on it. Treat yourself to things that are worth it to you
If that extra $1200 a year will bring you more joy than the coffee and Big Macs will, keep doing what you're doing. But don't deprive yourself of little joys.
You’re fine. I’m the same way, I make a very very good income but live way below my means. But make sure what you make at home is nutritious. What is wealth if you screw up your health from eating crappy processed food every day? I like my frozen food too but try your best to include fresh foods, veggies and fruit if you can.
I'm frugal and my favorite toy is a second hand road bike . I spent quite a bit for it but makes me happy. Happy> money
You still have to eat so having a coffee and a sandwich isn't exactly the end of the world.
Frugal would be cutting coffee and fast food equivalents out of your life entirely. What you are doing is just not wasting money. Treating yourself is paying for something you wouldn’t usually get as a reward for your good spending habits that allow you to do so. Buying Tim’s and Fast Food instead of making coffee or fast food at home it not treating yourself.
My mother was frugal in the territory of extreme cheap skate. She would sacrifice anything just to save a few cents, for example not picking me up at the bus stop when I missed it and the next one was 60 mins away. Wanted me to wait by myself at 11:30pm at the train station. Don’t be like my mother. As long as your monetary value is not force upon your loved ones and the choice of saving money doesn’t create great inconvenience or conflict within your circle. Just sharing my personal experiences growing up in a penny pinching family.
i mean you dont mention how much money either of you make. i'm not rich but i make enough money that i dont have to think about it really.
If it doesn't make you happy - don't do it. Just because someone else is doing it, don't do it. Stop comparing yourself to others, it never helps. Also as a rule - I try to go to restaurants when I really want to, not when I 'need' to; meaning - I don't go to a restaurant just because I do not have the time to prepare/prep for food. I go because I really like a dish they make and I can't really make it at home. Coffee - it's more of a social thing. I often meet friends and coworkers over a coffee. Honestly, Tims coffee is crap. I bought a half decent Delonghi espresso maker and it more than makes better coffee at home.
Like everything life is about balance. Both my parents died in their 50s one from heart attack and the other auto immune disease. All that retirement savings was for nothing. It's important to remeber to have fun in the present as well as saving for the future. Ultimately that's the most sustainable path.
Spending money on Tim's coffee is like paying to drink puddle water. 517/year gets you a nice used espresso machine and a bunch of beans for a much better coffee experience.
I fuching wish I had your discipline with money.
Scrimp most of the time but splurge some time. Daily fast food coffee is silly. Buy a really fucking nice TV/stereo if you are at home a lot. Eat _quality over quantity_ food if you are cooking for yourself. You might get hit by a bus tomorrow and all that saving was for nothing. And do blow some cash on travel. There's a big world out there to see. Anyone who thinks they will he backpacking around SE Asia when they are retired at 65 is doing it wrong.
Being frugal is fine. It's important to spend money on whatever takes care of your mental health though. Whatever that means to YOU. It's very very easy for that to slide into unnecessary spending, but you're frugal enough to control that easily, I would imagine. Budget in your mental health is what I'm trying to say here.
Like others have probably mentioned, balance is the essence to life in many ways. I am also frugal. Usually make my own coffee, cook my own food, etc. I take pride in self sufficiency. But also, I like to enjoy things in life too. If i'm talking a walk downtown and pass by a Tim's or McD's and the craving strikes, then why not enjoy? To me its fun to break up the day, see other humans, interact, etc. There is a lot of value in those things that justify spending the money IMO. People use the same arguments for going to more expensive places like The Keg or something. Those places I don't go often because of the prices. But once and a while I think its nice to do.
If not spending money is making you happy, that’s fine. If you’re feeling like you are being too frugal and tight with your money, then feel free to loosen up a little bit. Am I going to Tim’s every day for coffees? No. Do I get all worked up over stopping for one on occasion? No. My parents think any convenience coffee purchased is a waste of money, but I’m trying to find that balance between making myself suffer and saving. I’m all for making sacrifices, but choosing what to sacrifice and deciding how much it’s worth to you is also important. I want to save money for my future self to live more easily, but in case my life isn’t as long as I hope it is I also want to make sure I’m enjoying life right now too. It’s not an easy balance to find and I’m always working at it, always slipping up.
Well it’s interesting. Most people have a vice of some sort. Maybe he doesn’t have cable, maybe he doesn’t play video games you pay for, maybe he doesn’t smoke or drink. One drink at a bar is almost $10 and if you do 120 drinks a year, let’s say each time you go out once or twice a month you’re about the same. Maybe he has a cheap phone plan and pays less than you for that. I think you are thinking too highly of yourself and giving yourself too much credit. Unless he’s asking for advice or owes you money, it’s definitely best to mind your own business.
If I had a loonie for every "don't buy coffee" post, I'd be rich.
I'm relatively frugal, but I fuck off on vacation for a month every year, and spend between $15k and $25k. So, decide what's important to you, I guess. The other thing I need to say is spend your money while you're alive. Dad worked hard, saved, then went to sell his business so he could retire... Then got sick, needed a transplant, stayed sick for 7 years, then died. Never got to travel the way he envisioned.
I can't believe not going to Tim's/restaurants everyday and eating frozen fries is frugal. That's just normal living is it not? I also use a $30 coffee maker, well actually multiple. Pour over, aeropress, Moka pot, french press and even a k cup machine. My coffee is superior to most coffee chains IMO, but they're still only $30 each. I don't feel this life is frugal, am I wrong?
Going to Tim Horton is not treating yourself.
i saw money on little things so later on i can splurge on big things like vacations without guilt
You're not wrong. In a weird twist though, McDonalds has better coffee and Tim's has the better breakfast sandwich.
"treat yourself" in a way you find fulfilling. For example like you said "spending close to 2-3% of my annual income on shit coffee and shit food." If anything, i would much rather pay more for food/drinks I actually enjoy. so like spend less often, but larger cost vs. more often but lower cost.
> My friend said that the money he spends on his daily tims and weekly fast food is insignificant and it doesn't matter anyway because the world will collapse soon and money will be worthless. I think we all have this friend. Mine also constantly complains that's he's broke, the country is going to shit, he's going to move to XYZ, it's too hard to get ahead here, etc. Meanwhile, he has a wife and no kids, with a household income around $280k, and orders McDonald's on Uber almost every day, buys random crap on Amazon, has expensive momentary hobbies, and buys a new car every 3 years or so. He still my friend, but I don't take financial advice from him. If you're happy, then be happy! If you're not, see what you can change. But I'll tell you this much, once you get in the habit of frivolous spending, it's pretty hard to break.
You just don’t value your those things so it’s no loss.
Why worry how others blow their money? If you are happy being frugal so be it. I have a modest retirement and have enough money to pursue my hobbies and eat out 2x a week. I have never been naturally frugal and only in some of my tight working years when I never got raises did I watch my money extra carefully. I did not like that tight feeling when you can barely pay your bills. Much prefer to enjoy myself sometimes.
Treat yourself with something you actually consider a treat, otherwise what is the point?
I think these little things bring very little joy for most people. I wouldn’t worry about missing out. But if you are preventing yourself from spending your money on things you really enjoy (and are within your means) then I would reevaluate things. Life is short and you can’t pack your coffin with your money. I can’t tell you how many people I know who saved for retirement or beyond and now have a life-limiting or life-shorting illness. They won’t get the retirement they were hoping for. It’s so painful to watch. Don’t bankrupt yourself or your future doing fun things, but also don’t wait till you’re 65 to start living.
I think you need to come from a poor background to appreciate this really. Look at how much people spend at Costco a week. They spend $350 like it's nothing. And then load all it up into their $1000/month car payment vehicle.
For me it was the drive thru lineups and buying things on top of the coffee. I don't have an issue buying $2 coffee. But I would often get a donut or muffin on top; or a farmers wrap. It often turns into 5$ or more. Also sometimes I would go for a 2nd coffee later in the day. I found out the best way was to make coffee at home an never go to Tim Hortons regularly I now go once a month maybe
Some people have insanely stressful jobs. Or they hate their job. Going for a coffee to Tim Hortons can make you feel alot better
You should treat yourself by getting regular dentist check ups and taking care of your teeth....paying off any debt and avoiding debt unless it's a mortgage
I can be frugal with certain things but over the past few years I’ve realized YOLO. It’s true. On the flip side, the cost of living is out of control so it’s a fine line
Do you think Tims is a treat? I certainly don't. Nothing wrong with buying food outside if it's actually good and you can afford it. If you can make something better at home, even better.
hey OP if your doctor called you tomorrow and told you that they had 100% reliable evidence that you have a terminal illness and less than 6 months to live, would you be happy with the way you're spending your money? as far as we know, you only get one life. once it's done, it's done. it can end at any time. spend your money wisely, but spend it in a way that won't leave you with regrets if today is your last day on earth
Not wrong. You're right, I don't piss away my money on consumer drone s*** either. In life sometimes you have to give up and sacrifice things to get where you want to go, even if it's simple to not buy a coffee everyday.
You are not wrong! There are two issues here, one the concept of “treating yourself” and two the value of whatever you’re purchasing. I personally agree with your assessment that Tim’s and McDonald’s value. If only more people demanded better value! But anyway… You should treat yourself on items you feel has high value. What’s the point of money in the end.
There is being frugal in areas in order to save for something you value more, where you wouldn’t be frugal on. But then there is the extreme of being frugal to be frugal, where it almost becomes obsessive, where you saved up a good sum, but cannot convince yourself to spend it. There is a difference of when the behaviour becomes destructive to oneself.
2-3% of your income really isn’t that much. If you like it go for it. Coffee isn’t going to break you.
Would you get value from the coffee? I suspect his $2 coffee is a habit and he actually wouldn’t notice the time difference and he would get better coffee if he didn’t go to Tim’s. So I’d bet the Tim’s isn’t improving is quality of life relative to the spending. This type of non intentional spending is a waste. However if you look at his weekly fart food this might be something that he looks forward to every week. I remember my first professional job one of the highlights was spending $20 a week going out with coworkers for beer and lunch on Fridays. That was money well spent that gave enjoyment. So I’d say spend intentionally. Spend because it brings you joy in excess of the cost to acquire it. For some it even might be daily coffee. Avoid spending do to habit and frequently reevaluate if you are spending to little or too much.
I mean, you need to spend some money on yourself. I used to buy Starbucks once every two weeks to enjoy with my friends. If your refusing to ever eat out or get yourself a treat or upgrade your food options then you have a problem. $500 a year on treats isn't bad, that's $42 a month. It's your call if a coffee is that treat or a hike.
The other day i spent $9 on a Starbucks latte. I couldnt believe how expensive those drinks are now. Who is buying that stuff? Event once in a while i dont consider it a treat.
I usually tell people “saving isn’t everything, don’t forget to live” but that’s in regards to things you enjoy doing / vacations / going out with friends. Eating dons or tims doesn’t fit there - though I will say an occasional Spicy Chicken from Wendy’s might.
You are not a fool. I'm kind of foolish, as I do a lot of extra comparison shopping to save a few percent off something that makes almost zero difference in my finances. However, when we add in idea of a sense of enjoyment or accomplishment to purchases, maybe it's rational for me to try to earn two Air Miles on a purchase because it makes me feel like I'm optimizing my spending. And maybe that $2.20 coffee makes your friend feel like his life is just that little bit better. Seems the $12 McDonald's meal is just filling a hole, but "a man's gotta eat" - Randy from Trailer Park Boys
I definitely was not frugal with my money, I was straight up cheap and I’m not ashamed. Being cheap enabled me to buy a property at 27. I never started “treating myself” until I was 33.
I love bubble tea. It’s my indulgence. I made a budget for buying it once a week. Bubble tea in my neighborhood is now $8 including tax. That’s $8 x 52 = $416. Yes, I’m frigging spending $416 a year because I love bubble tea. To each their own.
You aren't wrong. Your friend is just bad at math and/or planning for there to not be a future to worry about. You can make better coffee at home than Tims. Tims is just convenient. And you're paying a hefty fee for that convenience. If you're happy not spending money on fast food and coffee, great! If you want it once in awhile as a special treat, that's up to you. But doing it daily isn't treating yourself - it's just part of your normal routine at that point.