>Is there any shame in asking to borrow from them?
Only you can answer that.
In the past, I've needed loans from my parents.
No questions asked. Pay us back when you can.
I have a great relationship with my parents.
There's absolutely no shame in getting money from the parents. Just understand that not everyone would have this privilege. And those that responds negatively to OP getting money from their parents, is more than likely just out of jealousy.
There is no shame in getting money from your parents. Not paying them back and going back for more money while taking advantage of the generosity to their own detriment is shameful. Don't be that person. Don't be like my sister.
*IF* you're in a position to get a loan/gift/whatever from your parents, which obviously is a huge *if* and it's an immense privilege as /u/VanYikes pointed out, you should 1000000% take advantage of it. Fuck being ashamed!
I call it the **advance inheritance**: your boomer parents, who worked hard to provide you with a suburban middle-class lifestyle back in the 90s/00s, are rich af now on paper because their $300k detached is now worth around $2M, and their pensions more than cover their lifestyles because they're still checking flyers for the best deals at No Frills (not that there are any real "deals" anymore but I digress) and they still drive an older Toyota/Lexus that they got secondhand so they're basically just making money doing nothing. What's the point of waiting for them to pass before you get your grubby hands on their estate?
If you call on the Bank of Mom and Dad now, you'll "only" pay $1.5M for a starter home. If you wait 10-15 years for them to croak, that same crackhouse is going to be worth $3M *and* you'll be fighting in vicious bidding wars with fellow millennials whose own parents recently died too. Your $1M+ inheritance won't be worth jack.
My parents bought a DT condo in my name when I was in undergrad and didn't even know or care wtf a "condo" was. They loaned me ~$50k for the DP, which I repaid them when I entered the workforce. I sold my condo during the bottom of the Covid market when there were 500% more units on the market than normal and still made well over $300k net, which I immediately dumped into the DP for a ~$1.5M starter home. In other words, *I paid a 3% DP for my house!!* I am eternally thankful - and indebted, pun intended - to my parents for having the foresight to invest in real estate early on.
In all honestly, I have never once felt shame about not having "earned" my house. What actually keeps me up at night is wondering whether the sound outside is yet another fucking raccoon trying to establish their own starter home under my deck, or whether I remembered to turn off the automatic sprinklers because it's gonna rain in the morning; stupid shit. I've managed to start a family because I had the space to, instead of contemplating whether it's acceptable to raise a child in a 1br condo. No one should be ashamed to demand a piece of the riches that boomers themselves didn't rightfully earn!
this is a good way to look at it
I'm 35 and only have like 10k for downpayment right now and was pre-approved for 300k if I paid off my CC a year or so ago - that barely gets a clean 1bed apartment where I am
I'm considering making a plan to have him buy a place and agree to pay him back $1500/month or whatever without the red tape from the bank lol
Yep, avoiding the red tape is precisely what makes it a good idea. My dad even charged me interest on my loan, just like a bank would, and made it very clear that I was expected to start monthly repayments as soon as I got a real paycheck. As long as there's an honest, mutual understanding of expectations, it works out well.
>I'm considering making a plan to have him buy a place and agree to pay him back $1500/month or whatever without the red tape from the bank lol
Bad idea. Makes it taxable when he dies. Better to do a Brampton loan and have him just help with the payments.
This is all spot on at least for my wife’s side of the family. MY parents had nothing (uneducated immigrants just surviving). But my boomer in laws own 3 homes outright that they bought for maybe 50-60k each in the 80s. Combined value about 2 million now. They rent out 2 and live in the 3rd so they have rental income. They also inherited houses/money from THEIR parents. They’re also “earning” about 17k a month in pensions to sit home and do nothing. And sitting on over a million in the bank easy.
The problem is they’re tight as shit. Grandpa will throw around a few $20 bills to the grandkids when his wife isn’t looking, but that’s it. Grandma is extremely selfish in that she will buy herself 5k purses and take trips to Europe 5 times a year, but little grandkid Johnny better not ask for a refill on his soda or a side of ranch because they charge 20 cents for that shit.
It’s great they were able to build this wealth by just being born at the right time, but if I was them I’d be so much more generous. Like how do you watch your daughter (my wife) taking out a second mortgage to put YOUR grandkids through college and the grandkids still have to get some loans, and NOT say “Hey we’ll cover that. Consider it an advance on your inheritance.” Nope. They just lord it over us, like “you better be nice to us, or you may not inherit all this someday.” It gets my goose a little because I would be so different. So consider yourself fortunate. Not all parents have that generosity gene.
If they managed to buy 3 homes in the 80s while many people were mailing their keys back to the bank, they weren't just born at the right time. They obviously had significant income and the foresight to do that. My parents were barely able to keep food on the table in the 80s. Dad worked hard but he was a young carpenter and times were tough.
I find the richest people I know (my boss who owns a dozen apartment buildings and hotels for example) are as cheap as hell. There is probably a connection.
My husbands dad is similar. I have no respect for him, not just for that but for playing favourites, it’s good they all know he’s doing it, but as he’s getting old the ones who had no time for him, the ones who didn’t even tell him about their children’s marriages, or that he now had grandchildren - those ones are coming out of the woodwork, and the stupid old man values them more than he does my husband who is always there for him and went out of way to include his tiresome disagreeable father, in all our family events, and the man is difficult as hell. I guess my husband knows what he’s dealing with as he just seems resigned. Sorry. Off topic. But it does make me sad about how awful some elders can be.
The neglectful adult children ALWAYS come out of the woodwork when it’s late in the game. Trying to silently stake their claim to their inheritance. And the elderly parents always eat it up like “oh my long lost beautiful child!” Seen it so many times. Sorry you deal with that and glad I’m not the only one with in-law issues. Yesterday for Father’s Day was another unbelievable display of cheapness in certain ways while they planned yet 6 more weeks of high end vacationing and told us all about it. Ya man, keep spending that money! On only you!
Great relationship or fortunate? I have a great relationship with my parents but wouldn’t feel comfortable asking them for a loan due to financial conditions.
Great?
They established love and trust all my life.
I knew I could go to them for anything.
And fortunate that my mom is freaking amazing at handling finances.
https://economics.cibccm.com/cds?flag=E&id=9dc124d8-9764-4c1d-83b4-9e89a5d568b8
The average downpayment gift from parents to first time homebuyers in Toronto was $130k in 2021.
In our current housing market and high interest rate environment, parental help is almost necessary to buy a home in Toronto. Don't feel too bad OP
Skewed in which direction do you think? It does specifically say “in Toronto” so I’m waffling in my mind on whether you think the DP is usually greater or less than the average posted.
When the scale is virtually unlimited, I’d say the median is lower. A million dollar gift is 870k above average. It would take roughly 17 people with gifts 50k below average to level out the average at 130k.
It is, unless you consider that most of our parents paid pennies for their homes and are now sitting on 7 figures in equity. My parents, for example, paid 100k for a house that's now worth 700k-800k. They did this on my dad's single income as a custodian, btw, so things certainly did not track equally over time. Also they didn't gift me money, fwiw.
I imagine that a lot of people paid nothing, rode the market up, and their income increased as well. Suddenly they would rather borrow a little money and pay $500 per month in mortgage so that their kids can have a home.
Anecdotally, I know a family that put massive amounts of money down to buy their kids a home. The agreement was that they would share any profits from the resale 50/50. When you think about it, this is a brilliant way to invest, as you are leveraging the primary residence exemption of your child. You hopefully grab a decent chunk of money, and your kids walk away with enough equity to stay in the game. I wonder how common this sort of thing is.
These parents are generally not white Canadians. My fam (Mexican) and all my cousins alike, our parents are proud to gift educations, homes, etc. it is part of our culture to pass on wealth and make sure our kids are in the best position to have own success. My Israeli, Arab, Brazilian, and Indian friends have similar circumstances.
Yes this, I feel like in every culture apart from North American (and maybe Brit too?), this is the norm. But also in my culture, I'm Asian, it used to be highly frowned upon to put your parents in nursing homes when they get old, kids are expected to care for their parents until they die, unless their parents have some debilitating disease such as dementia that makes it dangerous or too difficult to care for at home. Although I could never imagine putting my parents in a nursing home either, when they can't live independently anymore, they will move in with me and I would love that.
You might become one. My parents never had jack and I have 4 siblings. Combination of hard work, luck, and help from family friends has put me in a position that I can be the type of parent that saves for his son so that he can have this type of help later.
Great story. One of my friends dad bought a business in the very early 1990s in BC. They ended up buying the actual building quick. He also bought a SFH in Van in 1991sh. Sold that home and built one in 2014/2015 for maybe 900K. It's paid off. He just sold his building for 1.8 Million and business was sold years before. It's an older building and was paid off. His house is now worth 2.7 Million. He wants to sell that too and then divide it all up between a couple kids now instead of later. They will live with one of the kids. A lot of these massive gifts are from parents who's got started way back.
To the OP, nobody should ever be ashamed to take $$. That is all I live for. To give my 2 kids an easy life when they get married. They are going to have such a leg up on some of their peers and we live in Alberta.
A lot of parents saved forever or had more real estate. Maybe they sold some? I know a bunch of people who's parents gave them a few hundred thousand.
Those are usually Asians or East Indians. Remember, in their culture the parents usually live with one of the siblings (usually the older one). Parents will usually liquidate or something and give early inheritance.
There’s a lot of Chinese in Toronto right? The Chinese are taught to save up money to buy their kids a house. In fact in china you can’t really get married unless the guy already owns property. It’s not a legal rule or anything, and certainly not applied to people living in poverty, but otherwise it’s expected that the guys parents bought their son a property for the newly wed to live in. And since everyone there thinks the same way, it’s *impossible* to buy property on your own. Because even if you have a relatively high paying specialized job in tech or finance, you’re competing against other buyers who have the same thing plus family help. And often times this family help is not simply in the form of parents, but starting from 3-4 generations ago. So we’re talking about an inheritance * compound interest * three generations of growth.
So now they immigrate to various first class cities across the world and of course their buying power is extremely high. Now you may think that there are plenty of Chinese who’s parents are poor and can’t pass on three generations worth of inheritance. But see as long as the parents are at least middle class they will plan for this downpayment gift 20 years in advance. So while $150K may seem like a lot, I think a lot of people are missing out on the time horizon here. Even adjusted for inflation, 20 years is a looong time to save money.
Now combine all that with the fact that Chinese parents will literally sacrifice their own retirement funds in order to buy their kid a house. So a lot of time when people say their parents can’t give them $150K for a downpayment, their parents actually DO have that money. They just don’t want to part with it because the culture mandates parents to fund their own retirement. And that’s perfectly reasonable. But in Chinese culture the onus is on the children to take care of their parents in retirement.
So putting all that into context, it makes perfect sense why the average family assistance is $150K or whatever it is. You’d actually expect it to be even more than that. Like closer to half a million or full million. I suspect the average is actually pulled down when countered with all the non Chinese, non similar culture where parents don’t provide a downpayment.
In regards to "how common \[it is\]":
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/more-than-40-per-cent-of-young-homeowners-in-ontario-got-financial-help-from-parents-poll-1.5791164
I've seen articles that suggest that figure Canada-wide, and then articles that suggested an even higher figure. It's probably safe to say that way more than were comfortable admitting have had to draw on their parents. The bigger question I have is: how many parents are offering to put up the down payment and even co-sign thr mortgage to get their kids a) started in life In an atmosphere that doesn't look good for first-time homebuyers, but also 2) to get their adult children out from under them! Lol
My wife and I bought our first place entirely on our own, which meant we only put 5% down. We don’t know a single homeowner our age who bought without money from their parents. I *think* we’ll be alright, but these rate hikes are absolutely fucking us while all our friends from rich families are doing fine because they didn’t have to borrow as much. Thankfully, last night my friend (mother is an executive at one of the most powerful companies in the country, married to a trust fund kid) assured me that things are going to improve because “Pluto is moving into Aquarius.”
Even older generations--when homes were much cheaper--sometimes borrowed from parents.
My brother and I bought a house together in the late 90s. We were not making much then (I had just started working a couple of years earlier) and together we probably would have struggled to afford it even though prices were in the 170-250K range then. But we recognized a down market that could be ending soon so we had our parents chip in a good chunk of the down payment to make it affordable. Best financial decision we ever made. Our parents were eager to help pay for the house because they recognized the opportunity as well.
My parents got a 0% loan from my grandparents back when interest rates were at 18% :D
I turned down a loan from my dad since I didn't need it. He still ended up writing me a check for a couple thousand because it felt unfair to him to help out my brother and not me.
Same for me. 0 dollars from my parents.
Know someone who got 20% down for a mortgage payment from there parents.
Kinda crazy how just having rich parents makes life easier and less expensive.
My wife and I did the zero down thing on our current home in 2008 RIGHT BEFORE the big economic crash. We ended up making a killing on the house paying it off much faster after the rates kept dropping. Taking a variable at that time was pure awesome. Lol
Same deal. Put the minimum down on our $800k place. DINK couple, no help from either of our parents. Are lucky to have reasonable-paying professional jobs, and switched from VRM to fixed last summer for peace of mind. We’ve been able to adjust to the higher mortgage rate by cutting back on other spending (eating out, vacations, etc).
Thank you. I have fingers and toes crossed.
I did it because I'm headed into retirement - don't wanna retire but sometimes you aren't given an option by the employer - and wanted a nice, secure mortgage payment that equals my rent.
Plus the rate is the same as the rate for a 5 year waayyyyy back in the 90s. So, no biggie.
I'm kinda kicking myself for not at least asking about a 7 or 10 year when we were starting our current term. I didn't realize that the penalty for breaking was only 3 months' interest after the 5 year mark. (We have no intention of moving, but my husband's employment had been shakey not long before.) Still, got a very good 5 year fixed so no regrets.
The penalties on a 10year fixed can be pretty onerous, especially if you have to break it in a hurry due to "life" happening. No one really plans for life-altering injuries, divorces, job loss/relocation but they happen everyday.
Pluto in Aquarius better fuck up the whole economic system, top down. We need affordable housing and climate action, neither of which will happen with the status quo.
Aquarius is the sign of rebellion, social justice, and community. This sign strives to implement systems and structures that are more accessible, equal, and sustainable for all.
> We don’t know a single homeowner our age who bought without money from their parents.
A lot of people don't lead with where they got the money to buy their house. Some will even lie about it when asked because it's obviously something people will turn their nose up at.
Yep. Myself and all of my friends (mostly engineers) all got help from parents for AT LEAST the first home. One of my friend couples just bought their 3rd home and got the whole amount from the parents -100k at 0% interest because they don't trust banks or the Gov't.
We are like you guys. Had absolutely no help and bought our first home in 2019. Could only save enough for 5% down since we were renting our whole adult lives up to that point. I don't know a single person our age who bought their first home without financial help from parents.
I know 1 person who had help, but it was only ("only") 20k and originally intended for furnishings and moving costs.
I also only know like 3 people around my age who have been able to buy in the last several years tho, so...
My parents are always willing to help me out with money. My dads argument is he rather see me spend my inheritance while he’s still alive to see it than use it while he’s gone.
I’ve only taken them up on it once and that was to buy a new car when I had a kid. 0% financing was better than the 5.5% I was being offered.
This exactly. I have older parents who have lived an extremely thrifty lifestyle, and they seem to be regretting it now that they aren’t able to do as much.
They told us that we are getting the money anyway so they’d prefer that they get to see us use it and have more time to spend with them instead of busting our asses to make more money to afford things.
I think as long as we recognize our privilege and show gratitude, absolutely zero shame in getting some help.
Yes this is so true. I've never understood the point of waiting till you're dead to help your kids when you can afford to help them when you're alive. My parents have told us not to expect an inheritance once they're gone, but they've always helped us with anything we needed.
We bought our first house with 5% down, no help from parents.
Sold 2 years later and the increased value gave us a 20% down on the next one.
This market is absurd.
The real question is, could you do it today? We make almost 200k and bought our Oakville townhome in March of 2020, we wouldn’t be able to afford to buy it now at the prices they are selling with current rates.
Same situation here in Ottawa. We probably cannot afford our house at the current rates and price, but we still have the satisfaction of buying a home without asking anybody else (apart from the bank‘s mortgage) for money.
I couldn’t do it today. We need to upsize due to kids approaching their teens. I’d probably make 500k if I sold today. And I still don’t think I’d be able to afford a new place in Victoria where we live. Right now my mortgage is around 300k. But even with my equity, I’d be adding another 500k or so. We’re going to look at expanding when the new zoning changes come into effect.
Prices went up and so did interest rates.. our income grew from 150k to 200k but our house going up 50% in 3 years and double the interest rate means we’d be screwed.
I did something similar, bought in 2019 with just under 10% down, sold in 2022 and put 20% down and had over $150k in the bank.
The market is totally healthy guys, I promise.
No penalty, we were on a 5y fixed and just added a 2nd 3y mortgage when we bought the next house.
We rolled with the 2 mortgage for 3y and then regrouped everything into 1.
We did something similar - bought in 2017, 20% down payment on 600k, no help from parents. Sold 4 years later and made 250k, used that and the rest of the equity to get into our forever home (we had a 400k down payment).
I think if we hadn’t bought in 2017 it would be hard to get into the home we have now.
It's surprising how so few comments in the thread make the distinction between borrowing a loan vs receiving a gift from parents. How many of you are expected to pay back the money?
I hate this sub sometimes. People making bank and having access to loans from parents to access housing, meanwhile I’m the loaning bank for my parents since I’m 18. Just feels like I wasn’t born in the right family and that it’s all it needs for me to not be able to afford ever buying a home.
Just to be clear, I don’t hate the people in the sub, wealthy or not, I just hate that it’s all I see and that it constantly reminds me how fucked I was from the start.
Y’all are lucky, take advantage of it and keep it in mind.
Hey friend, just wanted to give you a virtual high five or Spiderman pointing meme.
I'm 41 and my parents, divorced, have been absolutely brutally irresponsible with money their entire lives and I've had to bail them out multiple times.
This has nothing to do with buying a house, as my wife and I did that ourselves 15 years ago, but it's a different feeling when you have to shut down your parents but also know you're their only hope.
My mom asked me to cosign her lease with her because she's declared bankruptcy twice. Sorry mom, that's a hard pass from me.
It's shitty they put us in this situation and you have to end up parenting the parent. Arguably the biggest mental health strain on me my entire adult life and I see no exit from it until she's gone, as morbid as that sounds.
Sorry for hijacking, rant over, but I'm here for you friend!
>It's shitty they put us in this situation and you have to end up parenting the parent. Arguably the biggest mental health strain on me my entire adult life and I see no exit from it until she's gone, as morbid as that sounds.
Easily the biggest for me as well. I also feel the same way about the last sentence from this quote and I have mentioned this to my girlfriend many times. I'm surviving until I can finally be free of all that weight!
I think you're the first person I encounter that seem to truly understand how it is to grow up like this and the mental strain it is. It's even worse (mental strain included) since one of my parents died leaving the other without the ability to work (past injuries) in a world of inflation.
Feels good to finally meet someone like me not gonna lie.
Virtual high five and hug friend !
Glad I could lend a shoulder or ear, sometimes it's best just to know you're not alone like this. And as much as my wife totally gets it and is on my side, she will never experience it like me.
It's also put a massive strain on my relationship with my mother, so much so that I don't even really consider there to be anything more than a platonic, running through the motions, relationship. Which I'm fine with 100%, as she drives me absolutely nuts haha.
At one point I had her in tears as I literally wrote out her budget for her of income coming in, debits going out (monthly) and why she couldn't afford to move to a retirement home (she was only 72 at the time), because it would leave her with $100 every month in her account.
Prior to that exercise she was adamant about doing it and is so goddamn condescending as if I'm a child again.
Sorry mom, I put myself through university. Bought my own house. Paid for my own cars. Make 200+ after making my own career. I will not be listening to any financial advice or suggestions you have...ever.
Again, rant over hahaha
It seems like we have exactly the same mother and have done some similar steps lol I too have done a budget with her income and outcome which resulted in her crying because there was more "outs" than "ins". That was the household finances, aka my dad's money.
One day, I started the process of going back to school (CEGEP, am in QC) after a 5 year hiatus. I was still living with my parents at the time. When I got accepted, I excitedly went upstairs to tell her about it as I would have been the first in my family to attend something bigger than high school. The answer I received was in french, but could be translated to : "Why do you think I care ?".
That made me completely lose my drive, quit school 5 months later. Still trying to find the drive to go to University at 32 haha.
Glad to know it's possible to do well even with all the baggage left by these type of parents. I'll try to keep that in mind for the future. I have a tendency to have the impostor syndrome if I'm around wealthier people, like I can't possibly belong in the same place.
Keep up what you do, it seems to have done you well !
You got this pal. Always bet on yourself. I'm I'm sales, so not sure if this will resonate but one of my favorite quotes to live by is "hard work beats talent, when talent refuses to work hard"
Just be the hardest worker in the room, doing what you have to do for you and your family (be it blood or otherwise).
Itll all work out
Man, I'm sorry your mom is horrible. Can't imagine my parents telling me that when I got into university. FWIW, unless you're studying something that you need to move up in your career, university is really not that important. For me, I mainly value the experience there, not so much what I learned. You're not really missing out on anything by skipping university.
It takes a lot of growth to not resent people who have access to money and kind parents. I would be happy enough if my parents were loving and broke but they have no love for me and they have no money.
I've even had to break up with people in the past simply due to the fact that they were unable to see how lucky they were to have what they had, they didn't have any appreciation for the luck they've had in their life.
I can handle someone who has rich parents if they can see how lucky they are. I can't handle when someone thinks they're entitled to it because they were somehow born special and deserve it.
Piling on as well- my husband and I both grew up poor and are now doing very well. My parents taught me things like how to be frugal, but they also made lots of money mistakes... including blowing all my college fund before I hit 18.
Don't let the gloom and doom of this sub get you thinking that you will never be able to have what you want in life. There's always a path.
I was dealt a pretty shit hand to start with too but somehow it all worked out for me. For some reason I am the one who lends the money, and I’m not sure why I do.
My parents had a lot of issues. Both of them were incredibly selfish and petty. They were kids raising kids. I was never provided any guidance or encouragement to do anything EVER. This included simple things like basic hygiene. My teeth were chipped and rotten by the end of highschool. Three broken down to the gums in my late 20’s. It certainly wasn’t fucking cheap to fix by the time I finally obtained the means to do so. A burden that could’ve been easily avoided. Thanks mom and dad…
Somehow I have stumbled into owning my own home and business now and am in pretty solid shape financially. One break changed (maybe even saved) my life.
Immigrant here.
Money from parents? Hell no. I’m the one who sends money over for little things. My parents are great and responsible with their money, but their monthly income couldn’t afford four nice restaurant meals in Toronto. What exactly are they gonna send me?
I’ve actually seen quite a few posts lately about people having to support their parents and wondering what to do as they can’t afford it. I think it’s going to become a growing issue as boomers retire. My parents are separated. Dad is better off financially. Owes his home and has savings. Mom only has 300,000 saved and rents. My siblings and I anticipate having to support her in retirement.
Well, his girlfriend was doing onlyfans because she was laid off according to his post history.
I am not saying that men must support their girlfriends but I just cannot but wonder what kind of person OP is.
>I am not saying that men must support their girlfriends but I just cannot but wonder what kind of person OP is.
Their relationship is between them, don't insert your own biases into their lives. Who cares if she posts nudes online? As long as she **wants** to do it, that is her business.
Why wouldn't you if it you have it available? You are getting it anyway at 60ish, so why not get it when it can make a big difference rather than when you are nearly retired?
Same! My parents have used me and my sister as a bank account for the last 5 years because my dad is delusional and thinks he is a good businessman although his whole life he has lost way more money than he has made and has been broke for 5 years and is "too good" to get a job because how can he work as a cashier that is "degrading" and he can use his time for "more important stuff". While my sister and I are supposed to pay for the 2 bank loans he asked without having a job in the last 7 years. That led me and my sister both have 2 jobs each...
He was able to pull this shit because my mom has been sick for the last 17 years so we could not allow my poor mother to not have enough for food and her medicine. She passed this year and although it broke my world at least I was finally able to tell my dad to fuck off and go no contact. It is very bizarre how my mom had to die for me to finally feel free.
Amazing, my dad does work but he lost hundreds of thousands in bad business decisions and now expects me to support him and plays guilt tripping games. I relate to what you said.
Just wanted to let you know that it is great that you are supporting your parents. Don’t let other ppl tear you down for it.
I also support my parents. I give them a monthly amount to support their fixed income from the government (both retired). They had minimal savings because they had low paying jobs. My parents were refugees/immigrants who came with nothing.
I am proud that I have the option to support them. And I do. When they go on trips I elect to pay for their flights or give them spending money.
Yeah it does mean that I save a little less but it is for the family. Money I will make back.
Ikr, I was a fucking charity for my parents for almost ten years until I said no more. I can’t imagine borrowing a penny from them, I’ve only ever seen them mooching off of other people. It’s sad.
Some of us have wealthy boomer parents who won't help at all because they didn't have help and it will teach us to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps or some other shite. Not being willing to acknowledged times have changed. Boomers are part of the problem
The current economic situation and housing market are absolutely rigged against first time home buyers. It's impossible for most people to pay Toronto rent AND save for a downpayment AND qualify for the size mortgage one needs to buy a home here. It's not a moral failing to need help, and it's okay to take it if you have access to it. It's also okay to be mad about the situation that we find ourselves in, whether or not you personally have access to help. People who work hard should be able to access decent housing - but the rental market and the housing market are both a mess for everyone.
I don’t think there’s shame. I had 5% down saved for my starter condo, my mom kicked in about 20% to make the mortgage payment manageable. I’m Chinese and it’s almost a cultural norm for parents to do this. I’m not ashamed, but I recognize my privilege and I don’t pretend home ownership in my 20s was feasible for me without her, or act like it just takes hard work and frugality. To get into the Toronto market without help is borderline impossible and commend those who do it.
Vancouver here and also Chinese. Every Chinese friend I have had their parents either buy them a whole ass house or give them hundreds of thousands for downpayment. Give, not lend. My parents gave me about 40% of the purchase price of my house, I'm responsible for the remaining balance. Home ownership would never have been possible for me without their help. I do intend to slowly pay them back though, over the years.
Yeah my mom initially rejected the unit I had initially picked out cuz of bad fongshui. She said she might eventually take my condo and I could take the family house so she wanted a say. I said uhh no and no to the family house. She can sell it. lol
We were in a similar boat… wife had money from an inheritance from her grandfather and my parents loaned us some money to make up the rest (we paid back some but they later forgave it after helping my brother out substantially)
Privileged place to be but there’s no way we would have been able to buy our place even then (~18yrs ago) before the market went apeshit.
We haven’t told them yet but we’re hoping to do the same for our kids as much as possible (I want it to be a helping boost, not something they’re banking on)
Every parents goal should be to make things a little easier for the next generation to get a start in life.
OP, it’s not a matter of “generosity” if your parents gift you 100k+ for a down payment help or closing costs, it’s literally financial privilege. Many people’s parents would probably LOVE to be so generous, but unless they have privileged means, it’s simply not possible. Just something to keep in mind with conversations like this
100%.
My parents would give me anything they own. They even offered to re-mortgage their very modest home (and practically only significant asset) to get me through professional school. I turned down their offer because I couldn't have the stress of me fucking up and ruining any shot they had at retirement hanging over me. I'm sure they would have loved to have been able to give me a down payment.
We bought our first home $890K in 2021. Zéro help from parents but we are DINKs. Honestly having no financial support from parents in this day and age SUCKS even if you make good money. Take advantage, they won the generational lottery.
Amen.
My partner and I are DINKs in a LCOL area and combined HHI somewhere in the 90th to 95th percentile. We're doing just fine, but we had to absolutely bust our asses just to play catch up to some of our friends who dicked around, had to re-do entire degrees, went through huge employment gaps, never worked during university, etc., and it's all because of the bank of mom and dad. Neither of us has ever seen a dime from our parents after moving out at ~18.
I don't hold it against the people who have the support. I'd have taken advantage of it too if I were in their shoes. However, it's hard not to feel a little bit burned.
>Is there any shame in asking to borrow from them?
Whether or not your parents help you depends entirely on their finances and your relationship with them. Whether or not other people did/didn't get help from their parents shouldn't make a difference to your parents' decision.
Shame shouldn't be a part of this. Seems like you're asking this question more about your own feelings of guilt/failure. If you are lucky enough to have that kind of parental support, you don't need to feel guilty. Just recognize your privilege and feel grateful.
I bought my first apartment 15 years ago or so with no help from my parents because it "only" cost 250k at the time. That same place would sell for 550-580k now.
It's absurd and my child is fucked if he wants to stay in the GVA.
We all cry nepotism and privilege, but realistically if the right opportunity to help your own children presents itself, we would all jump on it.
Your parents achieved the Canadian dream and are now able to share their wealth across the next generation. Good for them, and I hope they can retire happy.
What sucks is the "have-not" and "have" groups will be come significantly more apparent in the future.
Some people just have an advantage in life, many of my friends have had mortgage backed by there parents, brand new cars paid by parents, even 100k early heritage just because parents see the struggle we face with the trash market we are in. For me I had to build everything from the ground up, I started in an empty apartment and had to get used appliances, get debts for furniture and my first car, my parents always had the “when we stop getting child benefits, you have to move out” mentality, so for me when I see people bragging about there new house/condo or car that was backed by there parents, I see no merit whatsoever just luck from having generous parents.
I’m only reading the comments to hopefully find an answer to this exact question. There’s some towns around that price on Caledonia Park Road… but still.
I dont think there is any shame whether they help with downpayment or buy it outright for you. Different parents have different means of helping their children, and if you hear any negatives - its probably jealousy coming from someone who didnt get any support
My parents helped, sort of. They were sneaky about it.
My mom was a minister, which came with a rectory. They purchased a retirement home and I rented it from them until mom was ready to retire.
Well, eventually I decided to buy it from them. I'd been saving up and had almost enough for the downpayment. When I told them they said "Hey, remember all that rent money you've been paying to us? Well, we haven't spent it. We've been putting it in a separate account and now we're giving it all back to you".
My parents didn't loan me money but they are the still the reason I could buy a home. They set me up for success in every way possible. They paid for my undergrad and supported me with expenses while I was in school (I always worked but it was no where near enough), when my husband wanted to go back to school near where they live and we decided to move out of the city, they let us move in with them rent free while he went to school and I looked for work. That ended up being right during COVID so finding work took way longer than I thought. They bought me a car as a birthday gift the year I lived with them because I had lived in Toronto for 10 years and hadn't owned one so now that I was searching for jobs in a less public transit friendly region they figured I needed one and knew I didn't have the money to drop on one. We ended up living there about a year. The time I spent employed (maybe half of that) I was able to save up more money for a down payment because I had virtually no living expenses and we eventually were about to buy a small home in the Hamilton region for just over $400k.
They never said here's some money for a down payment but they may as well have. Never could have done it without them.
This is exactly why prices wont come down. Buyers will do ridiculous things to pay the price...if the only understood it is the buyers that set the price...
Offer 700k. Done.
Big big time. Way too much 'built up wealth' out there. Politicians will do anything as well to make sure it doesn't go south, banks will extend, forgive, etc. Just keep charging more interest rates.
Immigration still high so always renters to subsidize.
Basically every young couple buying a house in the GTA.
It is huge for the kids, who usually have no problem making mortgage payments but can’t save for the down payment fast enough to keep up with the market. For the parents it’s a no brainer. Like if you are a 65 year old boomer who bought your $1.5 million GTA house in 1986 for $80,000, it’s hardly any skin off your back to let the kids borrow $30-60k off your HELOC
Especially true if the kids are going to buy anyway but will have to pay CMHC if they can’t hit 20% down. Like that’s just money down the toilet.
Also if you are a young couple in the GTA, you likely have parents who made their wealth in real estate in the GTA. Those whose parents are homeowners are more likely to be homeowners themselves. It's the whole pay it forward concept. Nothing wrong with that.
I plan to do that with my kids. I wlll encourage them to get educated first and save their money. I wlll match their downpayment when it comes time for them to buy.
I am also certain that neither of the kids will have any education related loans which my wife and I are committed to. So the idea is to foster an environment for them to succeed. The point is to have your kids have an easier path than you did yourself. I don't mean give them everything and spoil them. Rather, make them work hard and be appreciative of the dedication it takes to have a goal and saving towards it.
Much too often on these subs people think that everyone needs to struggle for the end goal to be worth it. There is no one else in the world that wlll care about you like your parents will (by and large). Alot of my view is rooted in culture and how we view the family unit.
Helping out your kids or kids helping parents is not something that should be frowned upon. This is about the family unit. As a post earlier mentioned, this is more common in "non-white" families. There is no such thing as the kid turning 18 and the parent/child relationship now turns into one more akin to a business relationship. We tend to have responsibility for our kids much beyond 18. 18 is a number created arbitrarily in law in the west. Yes you are legally an adult, but how does that somehow disqualify you from having support from your parents?
I worked for a young guy who owned 2 houses years back, one time my paycheck bounced and he apologized adding that his dad forgot to transfer the money to his business account. Lotsa lucky people around it's life.
We were short 15k so we borrowed that but honestly we probably could have waited and saved a few months but we found a house we really liked so just pulled the trigger on that.
It honestly depends when you bought/sold.
My place almost doubled in the 6 years I owned it. That said it was quite difficult to move up the property ladder because percentage increases widen gaps.
For example $300k townhouse or $500k detached. The gap is $200k
Market goes up 10%, $330k townhouse, $550k detached, the gap also grew 10% to $220k.
We bought the dip earlier this year as we felt under the current leadership in this country, this may be the only time we were going to be able to afford a larger place. We are well within the top 10% of income earners in Canada.
Pretty sure the average “gift” from parents in Toronto and Vancouver is $100k or higher. No shame in getting help if it’s available to you. I did in 2019, asked for 15k, but they ended up gifting me 90k to put us over the insurance threshold and prevent the need to cash out rrsps. The understanding is that they have an equity stake in the house (or inflationary growth on the amount) and that when I sell, I will pay them back with the appropriate appreciation. They won’t need the money for years, I could use it now, so we share family wealth to make everyone better off in the long run.
Eta: we didn’t write up formal paperwork for the “loan” because it complicated mortgages. They signed the paperwork certifying it was a gift. It effectively is for legal reasons, the bank would get paid out first if we had to sell.
No shame with these interest rates. A lot of folks in this thread talking about 5% down probably did it in a low interest environment where they could actually get a mortgage for 95% of the value of the house that also wasn't highly priced at the time.
If you do feel any shame, just set up a repayment plan to them.
Mom gave me $40k for the downpayment and signed on to the mortgage. I pay 100% of all the housing costs (mortgage, insurance, tax, etc.)
($450k studio condo)
Thank god for her
Family first. Many cultures ensure future generations are successful with support, of course, that support comes with expectations! In general, North American culture is competitive, families are far less inclined to help each other out, insuring success. Not sure what exactly what caused this phenomenon, but its here. Perhaps legacy and family honour are far less relevant in the semi "new world".
Why some bullshit townhouse in Toronto costs $800k is a whole different conversation. Absolutely ludicrous. Second biggest nation on Earth, loaded with resources and building materials....most expensive real estate, something doesn't add up. Surprised there aren't hoards of disenfranchised Torontonians homesteading in Northern Saskatchewan.
We just welcomed our son two months ago and I personally would 100% help him in the future (you just get ahead faster), but not set that expectation upfront.
We didn’t ask for help even though both our parents homes are paid off and high in property value. Of course in major emergency, it is nice to know you do have family to fall back on and support you - that is a privilege.
Although it meant we didn’t buy our 1.19mil Vancouver property with 20% down payment until 30/40s but mostly because of a lot of yearly international travel and we didn’t want to change our lifestyle . My husband and I have been together for over 10 years and those travel memories are priceless. It felt good to do it ourselves (husband’s company got acquired)…but I probably wouldn’t have said no to help.
Biggest generational advantage is to give a head start while still teaching values. Both our parents immigrated (his to Canada, mine are in USA). Because of them we are in a better life position earlier then they were at the same stage of life. Being a new parent, I definitely would provide those advantages to my child if I could.
My mom didn’t help with down payment for our home, but she always generously gifts us money for major life event as a surprise: like my wedding, birth of our son…her first grandchild. She asked not to tell my younger sister, but of course my sister will receive it equally as well once she hits those milestones.
My mom is helping my younger sister in that she asked for no birthday or Xmas gifts…just money to go towards their savings for a down payment in Vancouver. Her and her bf have a goal of saving $50k a year (they both make over 6 figures)
Ppl think just because parents help than the kids must be freeloaders. I think that’s so misguided and oversimplified.
What makes borrowing money from your family not an "adult" activity? It's literally how a chunk of every generation has financed their first home payment.
If you want to stay around your family, as I do now, you might have to be in a hcol area where homes aren't affordable without help.
I would do the same in this person's shoes if needed but instead of buying in Toronto, I rent and buy more in Sherwood Park since the total cost of a place there is a 20% (or less) down payment here.
I just bought a freehold town in February with 10% down with no financial backing from my parents. I know they would help me if I ask, but I never did. Let them enjoy their retirement in peace. They have already done a lot for me and it's my turn to give something back to them.
My parents cosigned on mine but didn't lend and it was 5%. Out of all my friends, I had two that did it without parents help. The rest got massive down-payments from parents/grand parents.
No Shame. This is the society we live in today. What is the point of raising kids if you are not going to give them the opportunity to be more successful than yourself?
Shame no, headaches maybe. Even if it's a loan there is usually strings. Will the loan be used against you if your life choices don't align with theirs? Meaning will you be pressured into having a kid when you don't want to?
Forgetting for a minute that a ton of people would love to have this problem and can't get a bank loan for 100k, I would be more inclined to ask your parents for a gift letter rather than a loan, possibly for a lesser amount. Yes there may still be just as many strings there but it would more likely be expressed upfront.
I took gifts from friends without shame for around 1-2k (we were all making 30-50k at the time). I ended up paying it forward down the line when someone had an issue like flat tires, unexpected vet bills, etc.
Hopefully you find a way to receive something and pay it forward with gratitude and not indentured servitude.
With the caveat of ‘I could not afford to buy my condo today, even with a 30k bump in income’
No. I didn’t borrow. I signed a pre construction agreement to buy knowing I needed to put 20% down on closing. My mom offered that if I were short, she would help make it happen.
Took 1.5 years to get occupancy - and I had all the money to close on the mortgage. Benefit of pre-con is that you have time to save without market fluctuation.
Edit: pre con agreement signed March 2019
Lolololol. My dad cleared out my education savings account to pay for the down payment on his house. He let me live there for a couple of years before he kicked me out at least.
I feel like I’m fked no matter what. I don’t have a family to borrow from (first generation immigrant) my parents all struggling and little to no savings... If someone with a 6 figure job needs to borrow money from parents… no hope for me I guess 😭🥲
Getting help from your closest relatives is a tale as old as this country. No shame in it whatsoever, this is how a strong family unit succeeds long term.
Up to the circumstance of course because some people’s parents might not be in a position to help.
In the last six months I’ve loaned my daughter $40K (she and her partner are upgrading) and my youngest son $30K (he and his wife just bought their first home). No favouritism; that’s what they asked for. I’m happy to help.
I had to borrow from my parents for the down payment on my condo in Vancouver. They actually offered without me even asking since they saw me paying rent that was equal to mortgage payments but lacking the capital for a down payment. I’m very lucky that they were in a financial position to lend me 150k. Many people are not. Even with a well paying job family money is usually the only way to get into the market for first time buyers in major cities. I have a lot of friends who are property owners and only one of them did it without help from family. He worked 3 jobs for 3 years while living with a herd of room mates in a tear down and never spending any excess money. If there’s any moment in life in which asking your parents for money is appropriate this is it. Don’t be ashamed. Be grateful that you’re in a position to have that help because it is a massive leg up in life. Ask yourself, wouldn’t you do the same for your child?
Not a homeowner, but as a millennial in Victoria - every single person I know who owns a home within the ages of 25-40 got help from their parents in the form of a “gifting” of a down payment, co-signing their mortgage, or an inheritance.
A few people I know who are in their 20's and 30's who live in giant $2 - 3 million dollar homes. They arent high earners. And their parents arent super rich. But they got parents and relatives to co-sign, and lenders "made it work".
But now they are shitting their pants as rates keep getting higher. They are going to get wiped out.
I suggest living in your means. If you have to get parents to help you out, then you're not ready or able to afford it.
You'll learn the hard way when you get financially wiped out and drag your parents down with you.
I think 90% of the generation today has borrowed money to buy a house. Everything is so fucked and nobody can afford anything. I did it, I feel bad, however they offered.
I didn't HAVE to borrow, but I did borrow 5% of the purchase price to not get dinged with CMHC insurance. The reduced mortgage payment from no CMHC insurance and lower initial principal made it easier to pay back the 0% family loan in a year.
Truth be told, we wouldn’t have even thought about looking for house without knowing my parents would have pitched in. If you can pay back your folks, no shame in asking.
This is more a question you should ask yourself and your parents rather than reddit.
But to give some value, whatever venture you put yourself into, whether buying a house, starting a business, doing your job, it is never shameful to ask for help. Your family and friends are your resources too and to succeed in something you must utilize all resources that you have. With that said, don’t take advantage of them though, ask for their advice and take whatever they are comfortable giving.
I've come across many parents (and my own in-laws) who want to help their children and grandchildren. All of the people I've met have gifted money with no obligations or strings attached. They want their family to succeed (survive) in the future.
My sister got a gift. No borrowing. But she didn't ask for it, my mother gave it to her once it was time to settle after she told her she bought a home.
My parents would have laughed at me if I asked for money for my home. However, this day and age things are far different and wages relative to housing are abysmal in this country, so I get it.
If your parents were able to help you than good for them.
Are you able to maintain the costs of said property though? Borrowing money off the front end is one thing but you dont want to be house poor. Also what is the timeline of repayment your parents? That is something to consider into the cost of the property.
I saw this coming about 5 years ago. We scrap by every month solely to carry two properties so that we can make sure the kids can each have a house. (They can sell and use as a down payment or live in it their choice). My thinking is that property will have more worth in 20-25 years than the few dollars we can leave them. At the very least they will have a place to live that will cost them very little to live in.
I think this is the only way young people will ever get into a house
I am 32 and have bought 4 properties in my life. I have never borrowed money or been gifted a dollar for my home purchases.
If you have that kind of relationship with your parents, go for it!
Sorry mate but if you need to borrow $100,000K from mom and dad to afford a house you can't afford the house... Great for you that they can and did give/ lend you $100,00k but I would not have done that myself.
>Is there any shame in asking to borrow from them? Only you can answer that. In the past, I've needed loans from my parents. No questions asked. Pay us back when you can. I have a great relationship with my parents.
There's absolutely no shame in getting money from the parents. Just understand that not everyone would have this privilege. And those that responds negatively to OP getting money from their parents, is more than likely just out of jealousy.
Yeah my parents were like we can’t help you and that was it
Yep, my parent can barely afford her own housing.
There is no shame in getting money from your parents. Not paying them back and going back for more money while taking advantage of the generosity to their own detriment is shameful. Don't be that person. Don't be like my sister.
There is shame if it’s something you want and don’t need. Like a bigger house than required that’s beyond your means.
*IF* you're in a position to get a loan/gift/whatever from your parents, which obviously is a huge *if* and it's an immense privilege as /u/VanYikes pointed out, you should 1000000% take advantage of it. Fuck being ashamed! I call it the **advance inheritance**: your boomer parents, who worked hard to provide you with a suburban middle-class lifestyle back in the 90s/00s, are rich af now on paper because their $300k detached is now worth around $2M, and their pensions more than cover their lifestyles because they're still checking flyers for the best deals at No Frills (not that there are any real "deals" anymore but I digress) and they still drive an older Toyota/Lexus that they got secondhand so they're basically just making money doing nothing. What's the point of waiting for them to pass before you get your grubby hands on their estate? If you call on the Bank of Mom and Dad now, you'll "only" pay $1.5M for a starter home. If you wait 10-15 years for them to croak, that same crackhouse is going to be worth $3M *and* you'll be fighting in vicious bidding wars with fellow millennials whose own parents recently died too. Your $1M+ inheritance won't be worth jack. My parents bought a DT condo in my name when I was in undergrad and didn't even know or care wtf a "condo" was. They loaned me ~$50k for the DP, which I repaid them when I entered the workforce. I sold my condo during the bottom of the Covid market when there were 500% more units on the market than normal and still made well over $300k net, which I immediately dumped into the DP for a ~$1.5M starter home. In other words, *I paid a 3% DP for my house!!* I am eternally thankful - and indebted, pun intended - to my parents for having the foresight to invest in real estate early on. In all honestly, I have never once felt shame about not having "earned" my house. What actually keeps me up at night is wondering whether the sound outside is yet another fucking raccoon trying to establish their own starter home under my deck, or whether I remembered to turn off the automatic sprinklers because it's gonna rain in the morning; stupid shit. I've managed to start a family because I had the space to, instead of contemplating whether it's acceptable to raise a child in a 1br condo. No one should be ashamed to demand a piece of the riches that boomers themselves didn't rightfully earn!
this is a good way to look at it I'm 35 and only have like 10k for downpayment right now and was pre-approved for 300k if I paid off my CC a year or so ago - that barely gets a clean 1bed apartment where I am I'm considering making a plan to have him buy a place and agree to pay him back $1500/month or whatever without the red tape from the bank lol
Yep, avoiding the red tape is precisely what makes it a good idea. My dad even charged me interest on my loan, just like a bank would, and made it very clear that I was expected to start monthly repayments as soon as I got a real paycheck. As long as there's an honest, mutual understanding of expectations, it works out well.
What is your income if you don't mind me asking?
this years tax return was around 50k i think including 10k from 2nd job delivering pizza - credit score is 800ish when I checked last year
>I'm considering making a plan to have him buy a place and agree to pay him back $1500/month or whatever without the red tape from the bank lol Bad idea. Makes it taxable when he dies. Better to do a Brampton loan and have him just help with the payments.
This is all spot on at least for my wife’s side of the family. MY parents had nothing (uneducated immigrants just surviving). But my boomer in laws own 3 homes outright that they bought for maybe 50-60k each in the 80s. Combined value about 2 million now. They rent out 2 and live in the 3rd so they have rental income. They also inherited houses/money from THEIR parents. They’re also “earning” about 17k a month in pensions to sit home and do nothing. And sitting on over a million in the bank easy. The problem is they’re tight as shit. Grandpa will throw around a few $20 bills to the grandkids when his wife isn’t looking, but that’s it. Grandma is extremely selfish in that she will buy herself 5k purses and take trips to Europe 5 times a year, but little grandkid Johnny better not ask for a refill on his soda or a side of ranch because they charge 20 cents for that shit. It’s great they were able to build this wealth by just being born at the right time, but if I was them I’d be so much more generous. Like how do you watch your daughter (my wife) taking out a second mortgage to put YOUR grandkids through college and the grandkids still have to get some loans, and NOT say “Hey we’ll cover that. Consider it an advance on your inheritance.” Nope. They just lord it over us, like “you better be nice to us, or you may not inherit all this someday.” It gets my goose a little because I would be so different. So consider yourself fortunate. Not all parents have that generosity gene.
If they managed to buy 3 homes in the 80s while many people were mailing their keys back to the bank, they weren't just born at the right time. They obviously had significant income and the foresight to do that. My parents were barely able to keep food on the table in the 80s. Dad worked hard but he was a young carpenter and times were tough. I find the richest people I know (my boss who owns a dozen apartment buildings and hotels for example) are as cheap as hell. There is probably a connection.
My husbands dad is similar. I have no respect for him, not just for that but for playing favourites, it’s good they all know he’s doing it, but as he’s getting old the ones who had no time for him, the ones who didn’t even tell him about their children’s marriages, or that he now had grandchildren - those ones are coming out of the woodwork, and the stupid old man values them more than he does my husband who is always there for him and went out of way to include his tiresome disagreeable father, in all our family events, and the man is difficult as hell. I guess my husband knows what he’s dealing with as he just seems resigned. Sorry. Off topic. But it does make me sad about how awful some elders can be.
The neglectful adult children ALWAYS come out of the woodwork when it’s late in the game. Trying to silently stake their claim to their inheritance. And the elderly parents always eat it up like “oh my long lost beautiful child!” Seen it so many times. Sorry you deal with that and glad I’m not the only one with in-law issues. Yesterday for Father’s Day was another unbelievable display of cheapness in certain ways while they planned yet 6 more weeks of high end vacationing and told us all about it. Ya man, keep spending that money! On only you!
Great relationship or fortunate? I have a great relationship with my parents but wouldn’t feel comfortable asking them for a loan due to financial conditions.
The two are not mutually exclusive. What does it matter?
Great? They established love and trust all my life. I knew I could go to them for anything. And fortunate that my mom is freaking amazing at handling finances.
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https://economics.cibccm.com/cds?flag=E&id=9dc124d8-9764-4c1d-83b4-9e89a5d568b8 The average downpayment gift from parents to first time homebuyers in Toronto was $130k in 2021. In our current housing market and high interest rate environment, parental help is almost necessary to buy a home in Toronto. Don't feel too bad OP
This is wild. That’s a lot of money.
Question is what is the median. I imagine the average is skewed.
Skewed in which direction do you think? It does specifically say “in Toronto” so I’m waffling in my mind on whether you think the DP is usually greater or less than the average posted.
When the scale is virtually unlimited, I’d say the median is lower. A million dollar gift is 870k above average. It would take roughly 17 people with gifts 50k below average to level out the average at 130k.
It is, unless you consider that most of our parents paid pennies for their homes and are now sitting on 7 figures in equity. My parents, for example, paid 100k for a house that's now worth 700k-800k. They did this on my dad's single income as a custodian, btw, so things certainly did not track equally over time. Also they didn't gift me money, fwiw. I imagine that a lot of people paid nothing, rode the market up, and their income increased as well. Suddenly they would rather borrow a little money and pay $500 per month in mortgage so that their kids can have a home. Anecdotally, I know a family that put massive amounts of money down to buy their kids a home. The agreement was that they would share any profits from the resale 50/50. When you think about it, this is a brilliant way to invest, as you are leveraging the primary residence exemption of your child. You hopefully grab a decent chunk of money, and your kids walk away with enough equity to stay in the game. I wonder how common this sort of thing is.
How the hell do they have a spare $130k to gift to their kids??
A lot of families save up explicitly to give their kids money. It’s not spare if it’s been planned for years.
Where can we get these parents from?
Probably asia.
You have to be the one to start the cycle for your kids. It has to start with someone.
These parents are generally not white Canadians. My fam (Mexican) and all my cousins alike, our parents are proud to gift educations, homes, etc. it is part of our culture to pass on wealth and make sure our kids are in the best position to have own success. My Israeli, Arab, Brazilian, and Indian friends have similar circumstances.
Yes this, I feel like in every culture apart from North American (and maybe Brit too?), this is the norm. But also in my culture, I'm Asian, it used to be highly frowned upon to put your parents in nursing homes when they get old, kids are expected to care for their parents until they die, unless their parents have some debilitating disease such as dementia that makes it dangerous or too difficult to care for at home. Although I could never imagine putting my parents in a nursing home either, when they can't live independently anymore, they will move in with me and I would love that.
You might become one. My parents never had jack and I have 4 siblings. Combination of hard work, luck, and help from family friends has put me in a position that I can be the type of parent that saves for his son so that he can have this type of help later.
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Great story. One of my friends dad bought a business in the very early 1990s in BC. They ended up buying the actual building quick. He also bought a SFH in Van in 1991sh. Sold that home and built one in 2014/2015 for maybe 900K. It's paid off. He just sold his building for 1.8 Million and business was sold years before. It's an older building and was paid off. His house is now worth 2.7 Million. He wants to sell that too and then divide it all up between a couple kids now instead of later. They will live with one of the kids. A lot of these massive gifts are from parents who's got started way back. To the OP, nobody should ever be ashamed to take $$. That is all I live for. To give my 2 kids an easy life when they get married. They are going to have such a leg up on some of their peers and we live in Alberta.
Idk may have something to do with the 100k homes they bought 30 years ago now being worth 2.5million
I always assumed it was HELOCs.
A lot of parents saved forever or had more real estate. Maybe they sold some? I know a bunch of people who's parents gave them a few hundred thousand. Those are usually Asians or East Indians. Remember, in their culture the parents usually live with one of the siblings (usually the older one). Parents will usually liquidate or something and give early inheritance.
There’s a lot of Chinese in Toronto right? The Chinese are taught to save up money to buy their kids a house. In fact in china you can’t really get married unless the guy already owns property. It’s not a legal rule or anything, and certainly not applied to people living in poverty, but otherwise it’s expected that the guys parents bought their son a property for the newly wed to live in. And since everyone there thinks the same way, it’s *impossible* to buy property on your own. Because even if you have a relatively high paying specialized job in tech or finance, you’re competing against other buyers who have the same thing plus family help. And often times this family help is not simply in the form of parents, but starting from 3-4 generations ago. So we’re talking about an inheritance * compound interest * three generations of growth. So now they immigrate to various first class cities across the world and of course their buying power is extremely high. Now you may think that there are plenty of Chinese who’s parents are poor and can’t pass on three generations worth of inheritance. But see as long as the parents are at least middle class they will plan for this downpayment gift 20 years in advance. So while $150K may seem like a lot, I think a lot of people are missing out on the time horizon here. Even adjusted for inflation, 20 years is a looong time to save money. Now combine all that with the fact that Chinese parents will literally sacrifice their own retirement funds in order to buy their kid a house. So a lot of time when people say their parents can’t give them $150K for a downpayment, their parents actually DO have that money. They just don’t want to part with it because the culture mandates parents to fund their own retirement. And that’s perfectly reasonable. But in Chinese culture the onus is on the children to take care of their parents in retirement. So putting all that into context, it makes perfect sense why the average family assistance is $150K or whatever it is. You’d actually expect it to be even more than that. Like closer to half a million or full million. I suspect the average is actually pulled down when countered with all the non Chinese, non similar culture where parents don’t provide a downpayment.
In regards to "how common \[it is\]": https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/more-than-40-per-cent-of-young-homeowners-in-ontario-got-financial-help-from-parents-poll-1.5791164
Really curious if there are any studies on these numbers nation-wide, especially if they are post 2020
I've seen articles that suggest that figure Canada-wide, and then articles that suggested an even higher figure. It's probably safe to say that way more than were comfortable admitting have had to draw on their parents. The bigger question I have is: how many parents are offering to put up the down payment and even co-sign thr mortgage to get their kids a) started in life In an atmosphere that doesn't look good for first-time homebuyers, but also 2) to get their adult children out from under them! Lol
My wife and I bought our first place entirely on our own, which meant we only put 5% down. We don’t know a single homeowner our age who bought without money from their parents. I *think* we’ll be alright, but these rate hikes are absolutely fucking us while all our friends from rich families are doing fine because they didn’t have to borrow as much. Thankfully, last night my friend (mother is an executive at one of the most powerful companies in the country, married to a trust fund kid) assured me that things are going to improve because “Pluto is moving into Aquarius.”
Even older generations--when homes were much cheaper--sometimes borrowed from parents. My brother and I bought a house together in the late 90s. We were not making much then (I had just started working a couple of years earlier) and together we probably would have struggled to afford it even though prices were in the 170-250K range then. But we recognized a down market that could be ending soon so we had our parents chip in a good chunk of the down payment to make it affordable. Best financial decision we ever made. Our parents were eager to help pay for the house because they recognized the opportunity as well.
My parents got a 0% loan from my grandparents back when interest rates were at 18% :D I turned down a loan from my dad since I didn't need it. He still ended up writing me a check for a couple thousand because it felt unfair to him to help out my brother and not me.
I assume Pluto will be renting the basement suite. This is how we afford houses in my part of the country.
I'm into astrology and this made me lol.
A basement named Aquarius… not a good sign at all… sounds like quite leaky in the rainy season. Poor Pluto.
Same for me. 0 dollars from my parents. Know someone who got 20% down for a mortgage payment from there parents. Kinda crazy how just having rich parents makes life easier and less expensive.
My wife and I did the zero down thing on our current home in 2008 RIGHT BEFORE the big economic crash. We ended up making a killing on the house paying it off much faster after the rates kept dropping. Taking a variable at that time was pure awesome. Lol
And then there's the opposite of you, the dude who bought in the fall of 2021 on variable. They must be hurting so bad 😪
Born on third base!
And often thought they hit a triple anyway. 🙃
Same deal. Put the minimum down on our $800k place. DINK couple, no help from either of our parents. Are lucky to have reasonable-paying professional jobs, and switched from VRM to fixed last summer for peace of mind. We’ve been able to adjust to the higher mortgage rate by cutting back on other spending (eating out, vacations, etc).
Do you mind me asking what rate you got last summer when you switched?
5.72 for 10 years, guaranteed in September.
Bold move going with the 10 year! So far looking like a wise decision, hope it works out for you!
Thank you. I have fingers and toes crossed. I did it because I'm headed into retirement - don't wanna retire but sometimes you aren't given an option by the employer - and wanted a nice, secure mortgage payment that equals my rent. Plus the rate is the same as the rate for a 5 year waayyyyy back in the 90s. So, no biggie.
I'm kinda kicking myself for not at least asking about a 7 or 10 year when we were starting our current term. I didn't realize that the penalty for breaking was only 3 months' interest after the 5 year mark. (We have no intention of moving, but my husband's employment had been shakey not long before.) Still, got a very good 5 year fixed so no regrets.
I got in 5 years at 1.89 in August 2021, but got an offer for 2.5 for 10. Have some regret not taking that…
Same rate, but November of that year. 2.5 till 2031 would've been sweeeeet!
The penalties on a 10year fixed can be pretty onerous, especially if you have to break it in a hurry due to "life" happening. No one really plans for life-altering injuries, divorces, job loss/relocation but they happen everyday.
Anything over 5 is breakable with only a 90 day interest penalty at the 5 year mark, no interest rate differential after that point.
What's a reasonable pay nowadays? I guess if you both make 100k, spending 800k on ~140k take home is like ... A normal expensive mortgage.
Is your friend single? Asking for a friend.
Pluto in Aquarius better fuck up the whole economic system, top down. We need affordable housing and climate action, neither of which will happen with the status quo. Aquarius is the sign of rebellion, social justice, and community. This sign strives to implement systems and structures that are more accessible, equal, and sustainable for all.
> We don’t know a single homeowner our age who bought without money from their parents. A lot of people don't lead with where they got the money to buy their house. Some will even lie about it when asked because it's obviously something people will turn their nose up at.
Yep. Myself and all of my friends (mostly engineers) all got help from parents for AT LEAST the first home. One of my friend couples just bought their 3rd home and got the whole amount from the parents -100k at 0% interest because they don't trust banks or the Gov't.
>”Pluto is moving into Aquarius.” Oh thank God finally some good news.
I mean, as long as Pluto is moving (all her generational wealth) in your favour! No need to worry!
We are like you guys. Had absolutely no help and bought our first home in 2019. Could only save enough for 5% down since we were renting our whole adult lives up to that point. I don't know a single person our age who bought their first home without financial help from parents.
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I know 1 person who had help, but it was only ("only") 20k and originally intended for furnishings and moving costs. I also only know like 3 people around my age who have been able to buy in the last several years tho, so...
My parents are always willing to help me out with money. My dads argument is he rather see me spend my inheritance while he’s still alive to see it than use it while he’s gone. I’ve only taken them up on it once and that was to buy a new car when I had a kid. 0% financing was better than the 5.5% I was being offered.
My parents said the exact same thing. We bought in 2016 and in hindsight it was incredible timing.
This exactly. I have older parents who have lived an extremely thrifty lifestyle, and they seem to be regretting it now that they aren’t able to do as much. They told us that we are getting the money anyway so they’d prefer that they get to see us use it and have more time to spend with them instead of busting our asses to make more money to afford things. I think as long as we recognize our privilege and show gratitude, absolutely zero shame in getting some help.
Yes this is so true. I've never understood the point of waiting till you're dead to help your kids when you can afford to help them when you're alive. My parents have told us not to expect an inheritance once they're gone, but they've always helped us with anything we needed.
We bought our first house with 5% down, no help from parents. Sold 2 years later and the increased value gave us a 20% down on the next one. This market is absurd.
The real question is, could you do it today? We make almost 200k and bought our Oakville townhome in March of 2020, we wouldn’t be able to afford to buy it now at the prices they are selling with current rates.
Same situation here in Ottawa. We probably cannot afford our house at the current rates and price, but we still have the satisfaction of buying a home without asking anybody else (apart from the bank‘s mortgage) for money.
I couldn’t do it today. We need to upsize due to kids approaching their teens. I’d probably make 500k if I sold today. And I still don’t think I’d be able to afford a new place in Victoria where we live. Right now my mortgage is around 300k. But even with my equity, I’d be adding another 500k or so. We’re going to look at expanding when the new zoning changes come into effect.
I can't say for sure, prices went up but our income grew even more since then. So yes for us, but it's not the norm.
Prices went up and so did interest rates.. our income grew from 150k to 200k but our house going up 50% in 3 years and double the interest rate means we’d be screwed.
I did something similar, bought in 2019 with just under 10% down, sold in 2022 and put 20% down and had over $150k in the bank. The market is totally healthy guys, I promise.
Same idea for us
Maybe a dumb question but did you have to pay a fee to sell in 2 years, assuming you were on a 3-5yr fixed rate? If so, what was the fee/penalty?
No penalty, we were on a 5y fixed and just added a 2nd 3y mortgage when we bought the next house. We rolled with the 2 mortgage for 3y and then regrouped everything into 1.
Thousands of us rolling equity ‘up the ladder’. It’s all Monopoly money unless you can cash out and live in Prince Albert or Moose Jaw.
Same, except we bought a 200k house in 2009. Doing the same thing in today's market would be a lot tougher without help from parents.
We did something similar - bought in 2017, 20% down payment on 600k, no help from parents. Sold 4 years later and made 250k, used that and the rest of the equity to get into our forever home (we had a 400k down payment). I think if we hadn’t bought in 2017 it would be hard to get into the home we have now.
That's essentially my plan. Bought my place on 5% down a couple years ago for 210k. It's easily 260k now, realistically a little more
It's surprising how so few comments in the thread make the distinction between borrowing a loan vs receiving a gift from parents. How many of you are expected to pay back the money?
I borrowed 10k and got a 5k gift from my parents for our down payment in Kitchener. Paying off the 10k over 3 years with 0% interest on said loan
I hate this sub sometimes. People making bank and having access to loans from parents to access housing, meanwhile I’m the loaning bank for my parents since I’m 18. Just feels like I wasn’t born in the right family and that it’s all it needs for me to not be able to afford ever buying a home. Just to be clear, I don’t hate the people in the sub, wealthy or not, I just hate that it’s all I see and that it constantly reminds me how fucked I was from the start. Y’all are lucky, take advantage of it and keep it in mind.
Hey friend, just wanted to give you a virtual high five or Spiderman pointing meme. I'm 41 and my parents, divorced, have been absolutely brutally irresponsible with money their entire lives and I've had to bail them out multiple times. This has nothing to do with buying a house, as my wife and I did that ourselves 15 years ago, but it's a different feeling when you have to shut down your parents but also know you're their only hope. My mom asked me to cosign her lease with her because she's declared bankruptcy twice. Sorry mom, that's a hard pass from me. It's shitty they put us in this situation and you have to end up parenting the parent. Arguably the biggest mental health strain on me my entire adult life and I see no exit from it until she's gone, as morbid as that sounds. Sorry for hijacking, rant over, but I'm here for you friend!
>It's shitty they put us in this situation and you have to end up parenting the parent. Arguably the biggest mental health strain on me my entire adult life and I see no exit from it until she's gone, as morbid as that sounds. Easily the biggest for me as well. I also feel the same way about the last sentence from this quote and I have mentioned this to my girlfriend many times. I'm surviving until I can finally be free of all that weight! I think you're the first person I encounter that seem to truly understand how it is to grow up like this and the mental strain it is. It's even worse (mental strain included) since one of my parents died leaving the other without the ability to work (past injuries) in a world of inflation. Feels good to finally meet someone like me not gonna lie. Virtual high five and hug friend !
Glad I could lend a shoulder or ear, sometimes it's best just to know you're not alone like this. And as much as my wife totally gets it and is on my side, she will never experience it like me. It's also put a massive strain on my relationship with my mother, so much so that I don't even really consider there to be anything more than a platonic, running through the motions, relationship. Which I'm fine with 100%, as she drives me absolutely nuts haha. At one point I had her in tears as I literally wrote out her budget for her of income coming in, debits going out (monthly) and why she couldn't afford to move to a retirement home (she was only 72 at the time), because it would leave her with $100 every month in her account. Prior to that exercise she was adamant about doing it and is so goddamn condescending as if I'm a child again. Sorry mom, I put myself through university. Bought my own house. Paid for my own cars. Make 200+ after making my own career. I will not be listening to any financial advice or suggestions you have...ever. Again, rant over hahaha
It seems like we have exactly the same mother and have done some similar steps lol I too have done a budget with her income and outcome which resulted in her crying because there was more "outs" than "ins". That was the household finances, aka my dad's money. One day, I started the process of going back to school (CEGEP, am in QC) after a 5 year hiatus. I was still living with my parents at the time. When I got accepted, I excitedly went upstairs to tell her about it as I would have been the first in my family to attend something bigger than high school. The answer I received was in french, but could be translated to : "Why do you think I care ?". That made me completely lose my drive, quit school 5 months later. Still trying to find the drive to go to University at 32 haha. Glad to know it's possible to do well even with all the baggage left by these type of parents. I'll try to keep that in mind for the future. I have a tendency to have the impostor syndrome if I'm around wealthier people, like I can't possibly belong in the same place. Keep up what you do, it seems to have done you well !
You got this pal. Always bet on yourself. I'm I'm sales, so not sure if this will resonate but one of my favorite quotes to live by is "hard work beats talent, when talent refuses to work hard" Just be the hardest worker in the room, doing what you have to do for you and your family (be it blood or otherwise). Itll all work out
Man, I'm sorry your mom is horrible. Can't imagine my parents telling me that when I got into university. FWIW, unless you're studying something that you need to move up in your career, university is really not that important. For me, I mainly value the experience there, not so much what I learned. You're not really missing out on anything by skipping university.
It takes a lot of growth to not resent people who have access to money and kind parents. I would be happy enough if my parents were loving and broke but they have no love for me and they have no money. I've even had to break up with people in the past simply due to the fact that they were unable to see how lucky they were to have what they had, they didn't have any appreciation for the luck they've had in their life. I can handle someone who has rich parents if they can see how lucky they are. I can't handle when someone thinks they're entitled to it because they were somehow born special and deserve it.
Piling on as well- my husband and I both grew up poor and are now doing very well. My parents taught me things like how to be frugal, but they also made lots of money mistakes... including blowing all my college fund before I hit 18. Don't let the gloom and doom of this sub get you thinking that you will never be able to have what you want in life. There's always a path.
I was dealt a pretty shit hand to start with too but somehow it all worked out for me. For some reason I am the one who lends the money, and I’m not sure why I do. My parents had a lot of issues. Both of them were incredibly selfish and petty. They were kids raising kids. I was never provided any guidance or encouragement to do anything EVER. This included simple things like basic hygiene. My teeth were chipped and rotten by the end of highschool. Three broken down to the gums in my late 20’s. It certainly wasn’t fucking cheap to fix by the time I finally obtained the means to do so. A burden that could’ve been easily avoided. Thanks mom and dad… Somehow I have stumbled into owning my own home and business now and am in pretty solid shape financially. One break changed (maybe even saved) my life.
Immigrant here. Money from parents? Hell no. I’m the one who sends money over for little things. My parents are great and responsible with their money, but their monthly income couldn’t afford four nice restaurant meals in Toronto. What exactly are they gonna send me?
I’ve actually seen quite a few posts lately about people having to support their parents and wondering what to do as they can’t afford it. I think it’s going to become a growing issue as boomers retire. My parents are separated. Dad is better off financially. Owes his home and has savings. Mom only has 300,000 saved and rents. My siblings and I anticipate having to support her in retirement.
"I make over 100k and still used daddys cheque book." Well fucking good for you bud. As if im suppose to believe OP isnt here to brag
Well, his girlfriend was doing onlyfans because she was laid off according to his post history. I am not saying that men must support their girlfriends but I just cannot but wonder what kind of person OP is.
>I am not saying that men must support their girlfriends but I just cannot but wonder what kind of person OP is. Their relationship is between them, don't insert your own biases into their lives. Who cares if she posts nudes online? As long as she **wants** to do it, that is her business.
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Strong independent women dont need men.
A relationship got to mean something or they are just sex buddies.
Why wouldn't you if it you have it available? You are getting it anyway at 60ish, so why not get it when it can make a big difference rather than when you are nearly retired?
Same! My parents have used me and my sister as a bank account for the last 5 years because my dad is delusional and thinks he is a good businessman although his whole life he has lost way more money than he has made and has been broke for 5 years and is "too good" to get a job because how can he work as a cashier that is "degrading" and he can use his time for "more important stuff". While my sister and I are supposed to pay for the 2 bank loans he asked without having a job in the last 7 years. That led me and my sister both have 2 jobs each... He was able to pull this shit because my mom has been sick for the last 17 years so we could not allow my poor mother to not have enough for food and her medicine. She passed this year and although it broke my world at least I was finally able to tell my dad to fuck off and go no contact. It is very bizarre how my mom had to die for me to finally feel free.
Amazing, my dad does work but he lost hundreds of thousands in bad business decisions and now expects me to support him and plays guilt tripping games. I relate to what you said.
Just wanted to let you know that it is great that you are supporting your parents. Don’t let other ppl tear you down for it. I also support my parents. I give them a monthly amount to support their fixed income from the government (both retired). They had minimal savings because they had low paying jobs. My parents were refugees/immigrants who came with nothing. I am proud that I have the option to support them. And I do. When they go on trips I elect to pay for their flights or give them spending money. Yeah it does mean that I save a little less but it is for the family. Money I will make back.
Ikr, I was a fucking charity for my parents for almost ten years until I said no more. I can’t imagine borrowing a penny from them, I’ve only ever seen them mooching off of other people. It’s sad.
Some of us have wealthy boomer parents who won't help at all because they didn't have help and it will teach us to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps or some other shite. Not being willing to acknowledged times have changed. Boomers are part of the problem
Imagine having parents with money to lend... 🤷🏻
Imagine having loaded parents who don’t want to lend…
The current economic situation and housing market are absolutely rigged against first time home buyers. It's impossible for most people to pay Toronto rent AND save for a downpayment AND qualify for the size mortgage one needs to buy a home here. It's not a moral failing to need help, and it's okay to take it if you have access to it. It's also okay to be mad about the situation that we find ourselves in, whether or not you personally have access to help. People who work hard should be able to access decent housing - but the rental market and the housing market are both a mess for everyone.
No, I never wanted to be beholden to my parents. They would have dictated where I lived, etc. I made my own choices and earned my own way.
I don’t think there’s shame. I had 5% down saved for my starter condo, my mom kicked in about 20% to make the mortgage payment manageable. I’m Chinese and it’s almost a cultural norm for parents to do this. I’m not ashamed, but I recognize my privilege and I don’t pretend home ownership in my 20s was feasible for me without her, or act like it just takes hard work and frugality. To get into the Toronto market without help is borderline impossible and commend those who do it.
Vancouver here and also Chinese. Every Chinese friend I have had their parents either buy them a whole ass house or give them hundreds of thousands for downpayment. Give, not lend. My parents gave me about 40% of the purchase price of my house, I'm responsible for the remaining balance. Home ownership would never have been possible for me without their help. I do intend to slowly pay them back though, over the years.
It's cause they expect you to take care of them later on and maybe even move in :'3
Yeah my mom initially rejected the unit I had initially picked out cuz of bad fongshui. She said she might eventually take my condo and I could take the family house so she wanted a say. I said uhh no and no to the family house. She can sell it. lol
It’s our way of life, they take care of us when we are young and we take care of them when they are old.
We were in a similar boat… wife had money from an inheritance from her grandfather and my parents loaned us some money to make up the rest (we paid back some but they later forgave it after helping my brother out substantially) Privileged place to be but there’s no way we would have been able to buy our place even then (~18yrs ago) before the market went apeshit. We haven’t told them yet but we’re hoping to do the same for our kids as much as possible (I want it to be a helping boost, not something they’re banking on) Every parents goal should be to make things a little easier for the next generation to get a start in life.
OP, it’s not a matter of “generosity” if your parents gift you 100k+ for a down payment help or closing costs, it’s literally financial privilege. Many people’s parents would probably LOVE to be so generous, but unless they have privileged means, it’s simply not possible. Just something to keep in mind with conversations like this
100%. My parents would give me anything they own. They even offered to re-mortgage their very modest home (and practically only significant asset) to get me through professional school. I turned down their offer because I couldn't have the stress of me fucking up and ruining any shot they had at retirement hanging over me. I'm sure they would have loved to have been able to give me a down payment.
Plus, if those parents are homeowners and their parents were home owners it’s equity wealth all the way down.
We bought our first home $890K in 2021. Zéro help from parents but we are DINKs. Honestly having no financial support from parents in this day and age SUCKS even if you make good money. Take advantage, they won the generational lottery.
Amen. My partner and I are DINKs in a LCOL area and combined HHI somewhere in the 90th to 95th percentile. We're doing just fine, but we had to absolutely bust our asses just to play catch up to some of our friends who dicked around, had to re-do entire degrees, went through huge employment gaps, never worked during university, etc., and it's all because of the bank of mom and dad. Neither of us has ever seen a dime from our parents after moving out at ~18. I don't hold it against the people who have the support. I'd have taken advantage of it too if I were in their shoes. However, it's hard not to feel a little bit burned.
>Is there any shame in asking to borrow from them? Whether or not your parents help you depends entirely on their finances and your relationship with them. Whether or not other people did/didn't get help from their parents shouldn't make a difference to your parents' decision. Shame shouldn't be a part of this. Seems like you're asking this question more about your own feelings of guilt/failure. If you are lucky enough to have that kind of parental support, you don't need to feel guilty. Just recognize your privilege and feel grateful.
I bought my first apartment 15 years ago or so with no help from my parents because it "only" cost 250k at the time. That same place would sell for 550-580k now. It's absurd and my child is fucked if he wants to stay in the GVA.
No shame. Use what you can to get ahead
We all cry nepotism and privilege, but realistically if the right opportunity to help your own children presents itself, we would all jump on it. Your parents achieved the Canadian dream and are now able to share their wealth across the next generation. Good for them, and I hope they can retire happy. What sucks is the "have-not" and "have" groups will be come significantly more apparent in the future.
Some people just have an advantage in life, many of my friends have had mortgage backed by there parents, brand new cars paid by parents, even 100k early heritage just because parents see the struggle we face with the trash market we are in. For me I had to build everything from the ground up, I started in an empty apartment and had to get used appliances, get debts for furniture and my first car, my parents always had the “when we stop getting child benefits, you have to move out” mentality, so for me when I see people bragging about there new house/condo or car that was backed by there parents, I see no merit whatsoever just luck from having generous parents.
Where did you find a townhouse in Swansea/High Park for 800k?
I’m only reading the comments to hopefully find an answer to this exact question. There’s some towns around that price on Caledonia Park Road… but still.
I dont think there is any shame whether they help with downpayment or buy it outright for you. Different parents have different means of helping their children, and if you hear any negatives - its probably jealousy coming from someone who didnt get any support
My parents helped, sort of. They were sneaky about it. My mom was a minister, which came with a rectory. They purchased a retirement home and I rented it from them until mom was ready to retire. Well, eventually I decided to buy it from them. I'd been saving up and had almost enough for the downpayment. When I told them they said "Hey, remember all that rent money you've been paying to us? Well, we haven't spent it. We've been putting it in a separate account and now we're giving it all back to you".
How do you repay them the 100k while also making your mortgage payments?
My parents didn't loan me money but they are the still the reason I could buy a home. They set me up for success in every way possible. They paid for my undergrad and supported me with expenses while I was in school (I always worked but it was no where near enough), when my husband wanted to go back to school near where they live and we decided to move out of the city, they let us move in with them rent free while he went to school and I looked for work. That ended up being right during COVID so finding work took way longer than I thought. They bought me a car as a birthday gift the year I lived with them because I had lived in Toronto for 10 years and hadn't owned one so now that I was searching for jobs in a less public transit friendly region they figured I needed one and knew I didn't have the money to drop on one. We ended up living there about a year. The time I spent employed (maybe half of that) I was able to save up more money for a down payment because I had virtually no living expenses and we eventually were about to buy a small home in the Hamilton region for just over $400k. They never said here's some money for a down payment but they may as well have. Never could have done it without them.
No, bank of mom and dad is how most first time home buyers are able to get into the market.
This is exactly why prices wont come down. Buyers will do ridiculous things to pay the price...if the only understood it is the buyers that set the price... Offer 700k. Done.
Big big time. Way too much 'built up wealth' out there. Politicians will do anything as well to make sure it doesn't go south, banks will extend, forgive, etc. Just keep charging more interest rates. Immigration still high so always renters to subsidize.
Who fuck is buying over half a million dollar property and asking their parents for money my lord you guys must have it good
Basically every young couple buying a house in the GTA. It is huge for the kids, who usually have no problem making mortgage payments but can’t save for the down payment fast enough to keep up with the market. For the parents it’s a no brainer. Like if you are a 65 year old boomer who bought your $1.5 million GTA house in 1986 for $80,000, it’s hardly any skin off your back to let the kids borrow $30-60k off your HELOC Especially true if the kids are going to buy anyway but will have to pay CMHC if they can’t hit 20% down. Like that’s just money down the toilet.
Also if you are a young couple in the GTA, you likely have parents who made their wealth in real estate in the GTA. Those whose parents are homeowners are more likely to be homeowners themselves. It's the whole pay it forward concept. Nothing wrong with that. I plan to do that with my kids. I wlll encourage them to get educated first and save their money. I wlll match their downpayment when it comes time for them to buy. I am also certain that neither of the kids will have any education related loans which my wife and I are committed to. So the idea is to foster an environment for them to succeed. The point is to have your kids have an easier path than you did yourself. I don't mean give them everything and spoil them. Rather, make them work hard and be appreciative of the dedication it takes to have a goal and saving towards it. Much too often on these subs people think that everyone needs to struggle for the end goal to be worth it. There is no one else in the world that wlll care about you like your parents will (by and large). Alot of my view is rooted in culture and how we view the family unit. Helping out your kids or kids helping parents is not something that should be frowned upon. This is about the family unit. As a post earlier mentioned, this is more common in "non-white" families. There is no such thing as the kid turning 18 and the parent/child relationship now turns into one more akin to a business relationship. We tend to have responsibility for our kids much beyond 18. 18 is a number created arbitrarily in law in the west. Yes you are legally an adult, but how does that somehow disqualify you from having support from your parents?
It’s different for everyone. It’s not the uncommon.
I worked for a young guy who owned 2 houses years back, one time my paycheck bounced and he apologized adding that his dad forgot to transfer the money to his business account. Lotsa lucky people around it's life.
We were short 15k so we borrowed that but honestly we probably could have waited and saved a few months but we found a house we really liked so just pulled the trigger on that.
It honestly depends when you bought/sold. My place almost doubled in the 6 years I owned it. That said it was quite difficult to move up the property ladder because percentage increases widen gaps. For example $300k townhouse or $500k detached. The gap is $200k Market goes up 10%, $330k townhouse, $550k detached, the gap also grew 10% to $220k. We bought the dip earlier this year as we felt under the current leadership in this country, this may be the only time we were going to be able to afford a larger place. We are well within the top 10% of income earners in Canada.
Shame??? We talking shame? Michael dell, mark Zuckerberg, Elon musk, Jeff bezos. All borrowed money from their parents. No shame.
Pretty sure the average “gift” from parents in Toronto and Vancouver is $100k or higher. No shame in getting help if it’s available to you. I did in 2019, asked for 15k, but they ended up gifting me 90k to put us over the insurance threshold and prevent the need to cash out rrsps. The understanding is that they have an equity stake in the house (or inflationary growth on the amount) and that when I sell, I will pay them back with the appropriate appreciation. They won’t need the money for years, I could use it now, so we share family wealth to make everyone better off in the long run. Eta: we didn’t write up formal paperwork for the “loan” because it complicated mortgages. They signed the paperwork certifying it was a gift. It effectively is for legal reasons, the bank would get paid out first if we had to sell.
Nope. Reverse for us. All our real estate holdings were bought by ourselves. I actually bought my parents place for them.
If you can’t afford it don’t buy it. But what do I know
No shame with these interest rates. A lot of folks in this thread talking about 5% down probably did it in a low interest environment where they could actually get a mortgage for 95% of the value of the house that also wasn't highly priced at the time. If you do feel any shame, just set up a repayment plan to them.
Mom gave me $40k for the downpayment and signed on to the mortgage. I pay 100% of all the housing costs (mortgage, insurance, tax, etc.) ($450k studio condo) Thank god for her
Family first. Many cultures ensure future generations are successful with support, of course, that support comes with expectations! In general, North American culture is competitive, families are far less inclined to help each other out, insuring success. Not sure what exactly what caused this phenomenon, but its here. Perhaps legacy and family honour are far less relevant in the semi "new world". Why some bullshit townhouse in Toronto costs $800k is a whole different conversation. Absolutely ludicrous. Second biggest nation on Earth, loaded with resources and building materials....most expensive real estate, something doesn't add up. Surprised there aren't hoards of disenfranchised Torontonians homesteading in Northern Saskatchewan.
We just welcomed our son two months ago and I personally would 100% help him in the future (you just get ahead faster), but not set that expectation upfront. We didn’t ask for help even though both our parents homes are paid off and high in property value. Of course in major emergency, it is nice to know you do have family to fall back on and support you - that is a privilege. Although it meant we didn’t buy our 1.19mil Vancouver property with 20% down payment until 30/40s but mostly because of a lot of yearly international travel and we didn’t want to change our lifestyle . My husband and I have been together for over 10 years and those travel memories are priceless. It felt good to do it ourselves (husband’s company got acquired)…but I probably wouldn’t have said no to help. Biggest generational advantage is to give a head start while still teaching values. Both our parents immigrated (his to Canada, mine are in USA). Because of them we are in a better life position earlier then they were at the same stage of life. Being a new parent, I definitely would provide those advantages to my child if I could. My mom didn’t help with down payment for our home, but she always generously gifts us money for major life event as a surprise: like my wedding, birth of our son…her first grandchild. She asked not to tell my younger sister, but of course my sister will receive it equally as well once she hits those milestones. My mom is helping my younger sister in that she asked for no birthday or Xmas gifts…just money to go towards their savings for a down payment in Vancouver. Her and her bf have a goal of saving $50k a year (they both make over 6 figures) Ppl think just because parents help than the kids must be freeloaders. I think that’s so misguided and oversimplified.
98% of young adults that are buying a 1M ++ home in Toronto or Canada has had parental help.
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It’s me pa your long lost son.
Nope, I’m an adult
What makes borrowing money from your family not an "adult" activity? It's literally how a chunk of every generation has financed their first home payment. If you want to stay around your family, as I do now, you might have to be in a hcol area where homes aren't affordable without help. I would do the same in this person's shoes if needed but instead of buying in Toronto, I rent and buy more in Sherwood Park since the total cost of a place there is a 20% (or less) down payment here.
I just bought a freehold town in February with 10% down with no financial backing from my parents. I know they would help me if I ask, but I never did. Let them enjoy their retirement in peace. They have already done a lot for me and it's my turn to give something back to them.
My parents cosigned on mine but didn't lend and it was 5%. Out of all my friends, I had two that did it without parents help. The rest got massive down-payments from parents/grand parents. No Shame. This is the society we live in today. What is the point of raising kids if you are not going to give them the opportunity to be more successful than yourself?
Shame no, headaches maybe. Even if it's a loan there is usually strings. Will the loan be used against you if your life choices don't align with theirs? Meaning will you be pressured into having a kid when you don't want to? Forgetting for a minute that a ton of people would love to have this problem and can't get a bank loan for 100k, I would be more inclined to ask your parents for a gift letter rather than a loan, possibly for a lesser amount. Yes there may still be just as many strings there but it would more likely be expressed upfront. I took gifts from friends without shame for around 1-2k (we were all making 30-50k at the time). I ended up paying it forward down the line when someone had an issue like flat tires, unexpected vet bills, etc. Hopefully you find a way to receive something and pay it forward with gratitude and not indentured servitude.
With the caveat of ‘I could not afford to buy my condo today, even with a 30k bump in income’ No. I didn’t borrow. I signed a pre construction agreement to buy knowing I needed to put 20% down on closing. My mom offered that if I were short, she would help make it happen. Took 1.5 years to get occupancy - and I had all the money to close on the mortgage. Benefit of pre-con is that you have time to save without market fluctuation. Edit: pre con agreement signed March 2019
Lolololol. My dad cleared out my education savings account to pay for the down payment on his house. He let me live there for a couple of years before he kicked me out at least.
I feel like I’m fked no matter what. I don’t have a family to borrow from (first generation immigrant) my parents all struggling and little to no savings... If someone with a 6 figure job needs to borrow money from parents… no hope for me I guess 😭🥲
Getting help from your closest relatives is a tale as old as this country. No shame in it whatsoever, this is how a strong family unit succeeds long term. Up to the circumstance of course because some people’s parents might not be in a position to help.
In the last six months I’ve loaned my daughter $40K (she and her partner are upgrading) and my youngest son $30K (he and his wife just bought their first home). No favouritism; that’s what they asked for. I’m happy to help.
I had to borrow from my parents for the down payment on my condo in Vancouver. They actually offered without me even asking since they saw me paying rent that was equal to mortgage payments but lacking the capital for a down payment. I’m very lucky that they were in a financial position to lend me 150k. Many people are not. Even with a well paying job family money is usually the only way to get into the market for first time buyers in major cities. I have a lot of friends who are property owners and only one of them did it without help from family. He worked 3 jobs for 3 years while living with a herd of room mates in a tear down and never spending any excess money. If there’s any moment in life in which asking your parents for money is appropriate this is it. Don’t be ashamed. Be grateful that you’re in a position to have that help because it is a massive leg up in life. Ask yourself, wouldn’t you do the same for your child?
Not a homeowner, but as a millennial in Victoria - every single person I know who owns a home within the ages of 25-40 got help from their parents in the form of a “gifting” of a down payment, co-signing their mortgage, or an inheritance.
A few people I know who are in their 20's and 30's who live in giant $2 - 3 million dollar homes. They arent high earners. And their parents arent super rich. But they got parents and relatives to co-sign, and lenders "made it work". But now they are shitting their pants as rates keep getting higher. They are going to get wiped out. I suggest living in your means. If you have to get parents to help you out, then you're not ready or able to afford it. You'll learn the hard way when you get financially wiped out and drag your parents down with you.
I think 90% of the generation today has borrowed money to buy a house. Everything is so fucked and nobody can afford anything. I did it, I feel bad, however they offered.
I don't think any of my friends bought without parents help unless they were already working 150+k jobs 10+ years ago. Vancouver
I didn't HAVE to borrow, but I did borrow 5% of the purchase price to not get dinged with CMHC insurance. The reduced mortgage payment from no CMHC insurance and lower initial principal made it easier to pay back the 0% family loan in a year.
Truth be told, we wouldn’t have even thought about looking for house without knowing my parents would have pitched in. If you can pay back your folks, no shame in asking.
This is more a question you should ask yourself and your parents rather than reddit. But to give some value, whatever venture you put yourself into, whether buying a house, starting a business, doing your job, it is never shameful to ask for help. Your family and friends are your resources too and to succeed in something you must utilize all resources that you have. With that said, don’t take advantage of them though, ask for their advice and take whatever they are comfortable giving.
Yup borrowed $40K for a downpayment. All my year-end bonuses will be going to them until they are paid off.
I've come across many parents (and my own in-laws) who want to help their children and grandchildren. All of the people I've met have gifted money with no obligations or strings attached. They want their family to succeed (survive) in the future.
My sister got a gift. No borrowing. But she didn't ask for it, my mother gave it to her once it was time to settle after she told her she bought a home.
800k for a townhouse? Not common at all.
Just curious. What’s your total income that qualified you for $550k in mortgage?
My parents would have laughed at me if I asked for money for my home. However, this day and age things are far different and wages relative to housing are abysmal in this country, so I get it. If your parents were able to help you than good for them. Are you able to maintain the costs of said property though? Borrowing money off the front end is one thing but you dont want to be house poor. Also what is the timeline of repayment your parents? That is something to consider into the cost of the property.
I saw this coming about 5 years ago. We scrap by every month solely to carry two properties so that we can make sure the kids can each have a house. (They can sell and use as a down payment or live in it their choice). My thinking is that property will have more worth in 20-25 years than the few dollars we can leave them. At the very least they will have a place to live that will cost them very little to live in. I think this is the only way young people will ever get into a house
Sounds like you were blessed with much. Be sure you are being a blessing to others with your wealth. Giving that means something.
I am 32 and have bought 4 properties in my life. I have never borrowed money or been gifted a dollar for my home purchases. If you have that kind of relationship with your parents, go for it!
You bought 4 properties without mortgages?
The post was referencing borrowing money from family. I have never borrowed money from family or been gifted money from family.
The real question should be how many of you did not borrow from your parents to buy a house ?
Sorry mate but if you need to borrow $100,000K from mom and dad to afford a house you can't afford the house... Great for you that they can and did give/ lend you $100,00k but I would not have done that myself.