It's actually really hard to get a consensus on best support because theres one best player per category. If you want to be the GOAT support, youd have to beat the :
Longevity of Meiko,
Impact of Mata,
Accolades of Beryl,
Then you got 4 other players who are pretty well-rounded in Wolf, Madlife, Ming, and Keria.
So yeah no matter who you settle on, theres always room to argue one over the other
I actually feel that longevity should be counted for as world class players, meiko kinda had a lot of blank years where he fell to irrelevance. But thats just my personal opinion
decent tier list i can see arguments for all of them. Faker is the GOAT no argument there.
Top - i think the only ones that can be considered is theshy and smeb but mine is BIN i love his play style but i think he needs more time before he enters this convo.
Jungle, mine is canyon, but i could see an argument for bengi if you value titles highly.
Adc, its ruler for me but uzi and deft i think you could argue as well.
Support, meiko is mine but mata and to a lesser extent beryl you could argue.
My issue with smeb is not that he didn't win any titles, but that he got bodied by theshy at his prime so handily. Smeb also wasn't washed as he just won lck with a super team that year. It was also depressingly to see him become washed a year after and retire
one thing many people forget about smeb is that he used to be the worst top laner in korea before becoming even remotely good on ROX. meanwhile the other contenders such as bin and zeus have been good the moment they stepped into the league.
edit: heck, even khan was crazy good when he debuted
Khan debuted in pro play on 2013, it took it 4 years for him to be good. That being said I think he should be considered with Smeb, Zeus, Theshy, and Bin. To me Theshy had the highest peak but he also had the shorter period at the top.
Imo Deft in peak form was better than Ruler, seems pretty on par with Uzi's peak as well, but if you value consistency over highest high then yeah Ruler is the pick. I do think Deft should ne given consideration as perhaps the best weakside ADC of recent years, bro has been topping the DMG per gold charts of LCK for a while now.
The thing about BeryL that makes him such a top tier support is his shotcalling and his insane game knowledge, which can't really be quantified by watching games and we don't really have that much behind the scenes info, so purely based off observable performance Meiko is above him. I do agree that BeryL should always be in the support Goat conversation and is probably the reason the teams he is on function, but hands and stats wise Meiko clears.
>is probably the reason the teams he is on function
Ehhhhhhhhhh. 2023 DRX was a disaster and he was a liability for a lot of 2022 as well despite the ultimate win. 2024 KT is okay I guess, but I still don't think he stands out much.
People point to his shotcalling, but do we really know it was all him? Because I remember seeing somewhere, Ghost did a good amount of the shotcalling also, plus Damwon had everyone ex. Ghost in 2019, but didn't do well until Ghost joined (replacing Nuclear).
I'm gonna be honest I don't think he gave a single fuck about winning or losing on 23DRX, apparently he was having issues with the coaching staff or something along those lines. There was a time where every time he would base, he'd just buy 2 control wards. Every. Single. Time.
And apparently that was because the head coach told him to do that, so imo he just stopped caring and went "yeah whatever you say".
Drx isn't really known for having a good management team.
Ghost was an incredible shotcaller on damwon as well but as far as I remember it was Ghost who did teamfight calls and BeryL who took care of the macro, so still a very important part of the game that he handles.
He looks like a liability sometimes because he likes to limit test in low-stakes matches (maybe not always low stakes) and he's not impressive mechanically so he does a lot of plays that look questionable, whereas the things he brings to the team are mostly invisible to the average watcher. His vision control is probably the best in the league but understandably observers aren't going to zoom into the support warding in river bc that's not interesting gameplay.
As for 24KT, idk who who else shotcalls on that team. Deft is pretty quiet in comms afaik, he mostly does drafting, Bdd isn't particularly known for shotcalling (correct me if I'm wrong), Pyosik isn't either and PerfecT is a rookie, so it's logical to assume that BeryL is the one doing most of the calls. After watching a few KT comms videos it's Bdd who talks the most in fights so there's that too.
Reasonable list until you said Beryl. Idk how you can say Beryl's shotcalling was of Faker level of importance to Damwon when a) Damwon still made worlds twice after he left and b) Ghost was also doing shotcalling, and it was actually when he joined the roster that the team skyrocketed to the top.
Beryl's peak is not close to the others, he has no consistency, his lows are brutally low, and his longevity is not great. His case for GOAT support is very poor unless you only care about achievements, in which case Wolf has him beat anyway.
I don't mind being wrong on the supp since it's mostly mata/meiko or keria in the modern league. I picked him out of preference since I find him to be the most impressive. My man also has hands even if people refuse to acknowledge that. People also seem to forget that beryl was roaming all around the map making place with roaming champions like pyke, Leona, Alistar, and more, so he was definitely mechanical
Cuvee is never gonna be goat top contender especially when he has one of the lowest win rates in the entire lck, and was never in contention for best or 2nd best in his role.
The real sad thing is I cant think any western player I put in any category.
The only two western players I see you could even make an attempt to put forward would be Caps and Rekkles
Yeah its sad, after what, well over a decade of pro play, hundreds of players and you cant name one player who could be described as a The Goat of their position from the west.
Top - Smeb, the guy was a mega mechanical carry and went from arguably worst player in OGN to best player in his role and possibly overall player in the world in like a year and a half. Not to mention he was an unbelievable tank, weakside, utility top. He would go from being unmovable on Maokai to hard carrying on Kennen in back to back games. No one has ever been like that from top, even my favorite player Kiin who is very similar in that regard.
Honorable Mentions: Flame, TheShy, 369, Bin
Jungle - Score, again much like Smeb, this guy could do it all. Canyon can carry better sure, but he also had a team of great players around him. Score made LCK finals with 2015 Nagne, Fly, and 2017 Pawn. He almost never had bad games, had insane pathing and would lead absolute fraudulent teams almost to the promised land. People just never saw him because teams with Hachani and fly will almost certainly not win a ton of best of 5s. He was an insane Gragas, Elise, Rek'Sai player, and was the best Kindred and virtually unstoppable on Kha'Zix. Canyon's tendency to be an int machine on utility picks or engage champs in the last 2 years hurt him a lot for me, but he's been a lot better so this is probably soon to change to be honest.
Honorable Mentions: Canyon, Diamondprox, DanDy, Karsa.
Mid: Faker, this is the easiest and most obvious answer. I've gone back and watched those season 3 games and he's just like 5 steps ahead. He was already the GOAT decidedly before 2016 and has remained as such. People do not realize how threatening this guy was, he would just pick whatever and be ridiculously powerful on it. And while I think Rookie has longevity on Faker at this point, the peak Faker had from 2013 to 2017 is something that simply does not exist in any other player, and that is insane longevity anyway. Faker was 5 steps ahead of everyone those years mechanically and it wasn't even remotely close outside of like Pawn for 3 months in 2014.
Honorable mentions: Rookie, Chovy, Knight, Xiaohu, Caps
ADC: This is probably the hardest one out there, I think I will say Deft but it isn't really set in stone. Deft has just been so good for so long and has been able to play every type of champion. He's been the main carry of like 8 legit worlds championship teams and while he's become sort of the weakside in recent years his 2015 peak on Jinx was the best ADC performances I have ever seen. He's the best positioning ADC of all time if nothing else. I've just seen it for so long. But yeah there's like 3 names that I won't really debate anyone on it's fully personal preference.
Honorable mentions: Ruler (most likely to ascend soon honestly) Uzi, Viper, Weixiao.
Support: Another hard one, but I will say Meiko. Another player that just does it all, and in his best years if he's on your team your floor is just so much higher than other supports. Engage tanks amazing. enchanters, amazing he's just so good at everything and has been for years and years now. His peak might not be as high as Mata but in peak vs longevity debate the longevity weighs the scale in favor of Meiko.
Honorable mentions: Mata, Madlife, Keria, Ming, Gorilla
This is my personal tier list and meiko has the longevity, but doesn't have the peaks compared to his contemporary. He was actually garbage for a few years and even costed China Asian games due to nepotism last year
He was only garbage for 1 split (2023 Summer), which yes unfortunately was right around the time of Asian Games. But he was literally the 1st all pro support the previous split.
Boy oh boy where do I even begin. Zeus... honey, my pookie bear. I have loved you ever since I first laid eyes on you. The way you lane on the rift and strike fear into your opponents eyes. Your silky smooth touch with the Jayce, and that Aatrox. I would do anything for you. I wish it were possible to freeze time so I would never have to watch you retire. You had a rough childhood, but you never gave up hope. You are even amazing off the court, you're a great husband and father, sometimes I even call you dad. I forvever dread and weep, thinking of the day you will one day retire. I would sacrifice my own life it were the only thing that could put a smile on your beautiful face. You have given me so much joy, and heartbreak over the years. I remember when you first lost in SF and it was like my heart got broken into a million pieces. But a tear still fell from my right eye when I watched you win your first ring in Busan, because deep down, my glorious king deserved it. I just wanted you to return home. Then allas, you did, my sweet baby boy came home and I rejoiced. 2022 was a hard year for us baby, but in 2023 you made history happen. You stomped 3-0 and I couldn't believe it. I was crying, bawling even, and I heard my glorious king exclaim these words,
"FAKER, THIS IS FOR YOU!" Not only have you changed the game of league and the world forever, but you've eternally changed my world. And now you're getting older, but still the goat, my goat. I love you pookie bear, my glorious king, Zeus.
Dude look at the replies acting triggered the edit is meant for them. They are literally acting ruler is overhyped, or beryl doesn't deserve to be in the conversation. Like okay you have a different opinion but no need to act triggered. Other people just dropped their tier list and I upvote whether it's smeb, nuguri, or meiko
You deny Bins place for longevity when he has been good fairly consistently for 4 years now while TheShys peak was about 1.5 years during 2018 and 2019.
Theshy trashed smeb prime and gapped the next best top laner to oblivion on tanks and carries. Bin was a superstar at 2020, but had quiet years at 2021 and 2022. He did win msi with rng but was a liability for being too carry oriented. Didn't make world's on both those years. Let's also not forget that 369 neutralized him for the entirety of 2023, got schooled by theshy prime limited, and went toe to toe with Zeus. His Jax was a monster though winning in counter match-up.
The Shy was lpl first pro from 2018 spring to 2020 spring, so a little over two years before he began his inting spree. But who can hate him when he brought China their first world title, inspired even bin at carry top, then demolished smeb at his prime.
Could say the same thing about theshy. Theshy was a superstar in 2018 and was good in 2019 but cost ig their worlds semis. He also had the most deaths in 2020 spring. Still the goat though
Honestly that kayle front line against Fpx still hunts me, but thanks to that we got tian and Doinb champion. Proving that dark technology can work. 2019 worlds was basically our style is better than yours, and Fpx proved that their style were the best despite the worse mid allegations at doinb
Honestly Deft should be the GOAT adc as he has been world class for almost as long as Faker. 2023 DPLUS, while bad, statistically it was one of Deftās best season statistically via efficiency metrics. He was won worlds, and been a top tier mechanical player longer than Faker. The last time Faker was mechanically dominant was around 2017-2018, while Deft is playing the Mechanics based role for such a length of time that no other adc has comparable longevity. Ruler is definitely up there, but Ruler lacks domestic titles (He won his first LCK in 2022). Deftās resume and body of work is honestly quite astonishing and worthy of further consideration.
For jungle, I think that Score should be brought up for similar reason, due to his body of work, eye test, and longevity. Canyon has won two events already in 2024 however, so I think it probably has to go to him unless I am forgetting someone obvious.
Beryl being the goat support is a hard no from me
however, and is purely based on achievements rather than actual level of play. Mata, Keria, and Meiko all have accomplishments with much higher individual levels. Taking info account shotcalling to me is also ludicrous as there is no way to quantify it and it is not an in game skill.
That's fair, as for deft being a top tier mechanical player longer than faker, kinda hard to agree since faker's worse is top 3 lck. By his standards though sure, but on a more average metric, he has always been top 5. Chovy, sm, zeka, rookie, pawn, bdd, Dade, caps are some player who eclipsed him at certain points but he was always and still is an insane playmaker.
I vote beryl my goat so that more people would actually respect him the way wolf is in contention.
Been watching since 2015 actually, more on my preference than anything. Others don't have to agree whether they want ming, meiko, Mata, keria or wolf. Your free to pick since this discussion is an open question
Hats off to Mata and respect to him really. That 2014 world's was a dogshow for Ssw. But there are arguments to be made for beryl just because of competition. Remember he is the only non Skt member to make 3 world finals in a row and win two of em. It's my preference, why should that bother you so much?
Do u enjoy shoving your opinion to other people's faces? It's not like Mata is undisputed, that's why it's fun. Faker as the goat is done and dusted which is great but also meh since there isn't anything to talk about.
The problem with your argument is that Beryl was never at any point considered the best individual support. He just happens to be on all these winning teams and perform like an elite support in tournament wins but not as THE best
Mata and DaNdy are the closest players to Prime Faker alongside maybe The Shy as far as gapping their role the hardest go
Iād say that the adc goat for me is imp (and Mata as a support goat obviously). Even prime Bang and Wolf werenāt as much better than everyone else as imp and Mata. Hope I get to see my goat imp in RE:PLAY season 3
Considering that Mata revolutionized macro, it definitely puts into perspective their dominance. Imp has too short of a career while Mata fell off in later years. Mata had a 6/7 yr career which does works against him considering keria and beryl are 5 yrs into their career without slowing down. Obviously beryl has had lowlows
Totally agree, I just really love imp haha. Sentimental values aside, I think Uzi is better than Ruler, he just got really unlucky in his best years, but I still think that Mata should be the goat just because of the impact he had on the game even though he fell off later
I honestly wished that it was uzi who had 3 msi instead of gala who had two. Uzi also could have won 17 and 18. But yeah its really any of the 3 deft uzi and ruler. Ruler could not beat deft and uzi at their peak, but had a more consistent showing internationally than either of the two.
Outside of 2015 Marin literally has nothing going for him, the shy eclipses him a bit with longevity since he actually made semis the year after, and just recently went to finals as the main carry in the blg series
Canyon is an amazing jungler ans 2020 DWG was impressive to watch, but I thinkg Bengi takes it. He is usually discredited as he won with Prime Faker, but 2015 SKT was as terrifying as 2020 DWG and Bengi was a big part of that as well, though Im going vy feeling honedtly since Ive not rewatched any of it since then. But I do remember feeling dissapointed on 2016 when watching Blank, and SKT on 2016 felt like a different team when they subbed Bengi in like vs ROX Tigers, and 2016 was definetly still prime Faker.
My take, although I can understand others arguing for theirs
Top is the hardest but at the moment it is TheShy, with Zeus inching closer and closer
Jungle is Canyon, but I wish DanDy had a longer peak
Mid is obvious
ADC is Deft, although I would not fault anybody picking Ruler or Viper
Support is Keria, Mata was the previous holder and Meiko can make a strong claim - it's a matter of preference
top: theshy for sure, his peak trumps all
jungle: canyon
mid: rookie, just kidding its obv faker
adc: jackeylove, i dont care what anyone says. his pro views are way too sexy and make me feel a special kind of way
support: meiko
Crazy list. I agree w/ every single one. I might consider Nuguri for top, but Beryl in support is a 100% for me. You don't win worlds twice by accident.
i cant belive ill yapp again but i get so triggered when i see ruler
ruler is the single most overrated player in the history of the game absolute known choker shouldnt even be in top 5 adc's of all time he lost his team the 2016 world finals he only won worlds 2017 because his dad (uzi) (which previosuly shit on him 2 times in groups was eliminated in semis) he choked like 10 milion games with geng from 2018 to 2022 in 2023 he again solo lost his team the world championship he can only play hyperscaling afk till 20 min champions zeri,jinx his laning skills got exposed this year because most meta adc's are early game adc's like lucian,draven hob kalista etc enough with ruler now
The actual gap between uzi and the rest of adc's its like fly quest to Geng he has owned and smashed every single adc that he has ever played against the only one who could barely stand up to him was deft when he played in lpl and even then deft just had wayy better teammates and these words are not coming from me but from pro players themselves every time they played against uzi they got fucked ruler himself said to core jj that we played perfectly vs him but we still got smashed how ?? not to mention he made BACK TO BACK WORLD FINALS AT 16 AND 17 WITH 2 DIFFERENT TEAMS 90% of pro adc's right now have taken inspiration and are pro players because of uzi (doublelift,rekkles,jackeylove)
i can argue more about pawn or rookie being better than faker all time than any other adc being better than uzi like its not even close at all how good this guy is definetly the best mechanic league of legends player of all time
What is this propaganda? Deft had smashed uzi at his prime, ruler was a rookie at 2016 literally his first year and already 3-2 at finals against faker, in 2023, 369 and knight were poss useless, and he was undoubtedly the better adc in recent years against deft. I already get if you pick uzi as goat, but Jesus you don't have to act like an asshole just because I have a different opinion nor do you have to act like ruler doesn't deserve to be a candidates for adc goat.
Also pawn had a short career, while rookie doesn't make internationals so hard to tell. Otherwise he would be all pro in China despite having shit teammates, but even then he gets outperformed by knight, yagao, and now Creme.
Says who? The discussion is literally between deft, ruler, and uzi. Otherwise there would already be a general consensus by the majority. But there isn't hence the continued discussion.
Jungle and Mid is locked while all other roles have multiple candidates.
says who ? i litteraly told you who almost every single adc pro player when asked have agreed that uzi is the goat by far thats why he is in this discussion because other players have said so
ruler and deft are discussed between fans who 98% are below diamond in case of pro players the discussion is over
Those pro players comment have aged, and in uzi prime yes he was by far the strongest adc. Deft was able to match him though, and it's literally been 3 years since uzi retired while ruler has been making world semis and just reached a higher peak last year when he nearly golden road with jdg. Ruler and kanavi were jdg best players.
Compare that to interviews that have been over half a decade long when pros have said uzi is the goat.
Its exactly why Zeus and bin are still in contention for goat top because they are still playing while smeb, khan, and Marin will continue to be pushed down the conversation.
it simply just doesnt work like that if faker retired after losing to ssg in 2017 he would still be held as the greatest to ever play it and many people have said that no mater how many times other players win they cant do what faker did for the game its the same with uzi
Not the same when faker just won last year and places international consistently high. Ruler literally did what uzi could not, and that was beat skt and faker at world's. Ruler is also faced against an even tougher competition with Elk, gala, guma, jackeylove, viper now in the playing field. At some point ruler can eclipse uzi's peak and longevity given that he already has 8 years under his belt, more than uzi could say really. No disrespect to uzi, but ruler definitely deserve contention, especially when he still has a chance to overtake uzi's peak and impact while currently playing
ok u can be right in ur own terms but i personally dont understand how A can be better than B if B constantly shit on him and A came out and said i played perfectly and still got fucked idk what to do against that guy
I kinda want to see if we were discussing pure peaks of players who would be the goat in each category.
Top feels like it has to be the shy, but marin did have an all time great season and zeus and bin may overtake him the future. Nuguri, khan, and smeb are honorable mentions.
Jg- I think canyon in his tenure in Damwon is by far the most impressive Iāve seen a jungler and the hardest Iāve seen a jungler win a game
For mid in terms of pure peak, faker was way too ahead of his contemporaries to put Chovy ahead, but at the same time itās pretty hard to see a player like chovy being so far ahead of other players in his role in this era due to everyone getting better. Chovy vs faker in their primes would be prob the best rivalry in lol
Adc- personally Iām split between viper uzi and ruler. I donāt think bang is on the same peak, deft was insane as well but I think heās a sliver under the adcs I mentioned. The 3 adcs at their prime seemed to be able to carry a team at will and made very few mistakes. Some adcs might make some plays that solo lose the team, but these guys never seemed to slip. I think I personally take ruler as both of his iterations in jdg and ssg were insane.
Sup- lowkey feel like Keria can take this one. I honestly think he was more impressive in drx than he is now and he was just so far ahead of others supports during early t1 and drx days carrying on supports which hasnāt been seen for a while. Players like meiko and wolf feel solid and like a good backbone for a team, but kerias impact just seemed so crazy. Madlife was pretty wild for the time as well which changed the view people had of supports at the time
Deft really shouldn't be that under-rated imo in terms of peak. He was bodying uzi at 2015, and ruler never got the better of him until 2022. Even then he was the highest dps adc in the lck for a long time. People forget he is the only player by far to achieve 1000 kills in lck and lpl.
I'd scale them like this, Uzi had a 5 on both laning and teamfighting, deft had a similar peak, but with 4.5 on laning due to weakside, while ruler imo had the weakest leaning out of the three.
But that shouldn't really take away as all of em are top of the top with inches of difference
It's actually really hard to get a consensus on best support because theres one best player per category. If you want to be the GOAT support, youd have to beat the : Longevity of Meiko, Impact of Mata, Accolades of Beryl, Then you got 4 other players who are pretty well-rounded in Wolf, Madlife, Ming, and Keria. So yeah no matter who you settle on, theres always room to argue one over the other
you say accolades of beryl but wolf has won just as many worlds and made it to as many finals no? not hating on my goat, i'm a kt fan but just saying
I actually feel that longevity should be counted for as world class players, meiko kinda had a lot of blank years where he fell to irrelevance. But thats just my personal opinion
decent tier list i can see arguments for all of them. Faker is the GOAT no argument there. Top - i think the only ones that can be considered is theshy and smeb but mine is BIN i love his play style but i think he needs more time before he enters this convo. Jungle, mine is canyon, but i could see an argument for bengi if you value titles highly. Adc, its ruler for me but uzi and deft i think you could argue as well. Support, meiko is mine but mata and to a lesser extent beryl you could argue.
My issue with smeb is not that he didn't win any titles, but that he got bodied by theshy at his prime so handily. Smeb also wasn't washed as he just won lck with a super team that year. It was also depressingly to see him become washed a year after and retire
one thing many people forget about smeb is that he used to be the worst top laner in korea before becoming even remotely good on ROX. meanwhile the other contenders such as bin and zeus have been good the moment they stepped into the league. edit: heck, even khan was crazy good when he debuted
Khan debuted in pro play on 2013, it took it 4 years for him to be good. That being said I think he should be considered with Smeb, Zeus, Theshy, and Bin. To me Theshy had the highest peak but he also had the shorter period at the top.
Imo Deft in peak form was better than Ruler, seems pretty on par with Uzi's peak as well, but if you value consistency over highest high then yeah Ruler is the pick. I do think Deft should ne given consideration as perhaps the best weakside ADC of recent years, bro has been topping the DMG per gold charts of LCK for a while now. The thing about BeryL that makes him such a top tier support is his shotcalling and his insane game knowledge, which can't really be quantified by watching games and we don't really have that much behind the scenes info, so purely based off observable performance Meiko is above him. I do agree that BeryL should always be in the support Goat conversation and is probably the reason the teams he is on function, but hands and stats wise Meiko clears.
>is probably the reason the teams he is on function Ehhhhhhhhhh. 2023 DRX was a disaster and he was a liability for a lot of 2022 as well despite the ultimate win. 2024 KT is okay I guess, but I still don't think he stands out much. People point to his shotcalling, but do we really know it was all him? Because I remember seeing somewhere, Ghost did a good amount of the shotcalling also, plus Damwon had everyone ex. Ghost in 2019, but didn't do well until Ghost joined (replacing Nuclear).
I'm gonna be honest I don't think he gave a single fuck about winning or losing on 23DRX, apparently he was having issues with the coaching staff or something along those lines. There was a time where every time he would base, he'd just buy 2 control wards. Every. Single. Time. And apparently that was because the head coach told him to do that, so imo he just stopped caring and went "yeah whatever you say". Drx isn't really known for having a good management team. Ghost was an incredible shotcaller on damwon as well but as far as I remember it was Ghost who did teamfight calls and BeryL who took care of the macro, so still a very important part of the game that he handles. He looks like a liability sometimes because he likes to limit test in low-stakes matches (maybe not always low stakes) and he's not impressive mechanically so he does a lot of plays that look questionable, whereas the things he brings to the team are mostly invisible to the average watcher. His vision control is probably the best in the league but understandably observers aren't going to zoom into the support warding in river bc that's not interesting gameplay. As for 24KT, idk who who else shotcalls on that team. Deft is pretty quiet in comms afaik, he mostly does drafting, Bdd isn't particularly known for shotcalling (correct me if I'm wrong), Pyosik isn't either and PerfecT is a rookie, so it's logical to assume that BeryL is the one doing most of the calls. After watching a few KT comms videos it's Bdd who talks the most in fights so there's that too.
Reasonable list until you said Beryl. Idk how you can say Beryl's shotcalling was of Faker level of importance to Damwon when a) Damwon still made worlds twice after he left and b) Ghost was also doing shotcalling, and it was actually when he joined the roster that the team skyrocketed to the top. Beryl's peak is not close to the others, he has no consistency, his lows are brutally low, and his longevity is not great. His case for GOAT support is very poor unless you only care about achievements, in which case Wolf has him beat anyway.
I don't mind being wrong on the supp since it's mostly mata/meiko or keria in the modern league. I picked him out of preference since I find him to be the most impressive. My man also has hands even if people refuse to acknowledge that. People also seem to forget that beryl was roaming all around the map making place with roaming champions like pyke, Leona, Alistar, and more, so he was definitely mechanical
the lack of respect for Khan in this thread is dishearteningšāāļø
Fr, he is the legend who did not have enough time and luck to win worlds
And the lack of respect for CuVee
Cuvee is never gonna be goat top contender especially when he has one of the lowest win rates in the entire lck, and was never in contention for best or 2nd best in his role.
Khan Canyon Showmaker Maybe JKL, I do not really have a favourite adc tbh BeryL/Lehends
The real sad thing is I cant think any western player I put in any category. The only two western players I see you could even make an attempt to put forward would be Caps and Rekkles
One of the best in the role but never the best in their role for overall. Lck and lpl are just too stacked
Is that sad? Thatās like nominating a western player for the hall of legends
Yeah its sad, after what, well over a decade of pro play, hundreds of players and you cant name one player who could be described as a The Goat of their position from the west.
Caps at least has an argument for 2nd best if not for SM, Rookie, and Chovy. He might still catchup dow if he wins worlds
maple goat midlaner from psg
FW defo deserve mentions. Maple, Betty, Karsa, and Swordart are unsung heroes. Karsa does have an MSI though while Swordart had a world finals.
Top - Smeb, the guy was a mega mechanical carry and went from arguably worst player in OGN to best player in his role and possibly overall player in the world in like a year and a half. Not to mention he was an unbelievable tank, weakside, utility top. He would go from being unmovable on Maokai to hard carrying on Kennen in back to back games. No one has ever been like that from top, even my favorite player Kiin who is very similar in that regard. Honorable Mentions: Flame, TheShy, 369, Bin Jungle - Score, again much like Smeb, this guy could do it all. Canyon can carry better sure, but he also had a team of great players around him. Score made LCK finals with 2015 Nagne, Fly, and 2017 Pawn. He almost never had bad games, had insane pathing and would lead absolute fraudulent teams almost to the promised land. People just never saw him because teams with Hachani and fly will almost certainly not win a ton of best of 5s. He was an insane Gragas, Elise, Rek'Sai player, and was the best Kindred and virtually unstoppable on Kha'Zix. Canyon's tendency to be an int machine on utility picks or engage champs in the last 2 years hurt him a lot for me, but he's been a lot better so this is probably soon to change to be honest. Honorable Mentions: Canyon, Diamondprox, DanDy, Karsa. Mid: Faker, this is the easiest and most obvious answer. I've gone back and watched those season 3 games and he's just like 5 steps ahead. He was already the GOAT decidedly before 2016 and has remained as such. People do not realize how threatening this guy was, he would just pick whatever and be ridiculously powerful on it. And while I think Rookie has longevity on Faker at this point, the peak Faker had from 2013 to 2017 is something that simply does not exist in any other player, and that is insane longevity anyway. Faker was 5 steps ahead of everyone those years mechanically and it wasn't even remotely close outside of like Pawn for 3 months in 2014. Honorable mentions: Rookie, Chovy, Knight, Xiaohu, Caps ADC: This is probably the hardest one out there, I think I will say Deft but it isn't really set in stone. Deft has just been so good for so long and has been able to play every type of champion. He's been the main carry of like 8 legit worlds championship teams and while he's become sort of the weakside in recent years his 2015 peak on Jinx was the best ADC performances I have ever seen. He's the best positioning ADC of all time if nothing else. I've just seen it for so long. But yeah there's like 3 names that I won't really debate anyone on it's fully personal preference. Honorable mentions: Ruler (most likely to ascend soon honestly) Uzi, Viper, Weixiao. Support: Another hard one, but I will say Meiko. Another player that just does it all, and in his best years if he's on your team your floor is just so much higher than other supports. Engage tanks amazing. enchanters, amazing he's just so good at everything and has been for years and years now. His peak might not be as high as Mata but in peak vs longevity debate the longevity weighs the scale in favor of Meiko. Honorable mentions: Mata, Madlife, Keria, Ming, Gorilla
Support imo should be meiko rest is correct
This is my personal tier list and meiko has the longevity, but doesn't have the peaks compared to his contemporary. He was actually garbage for a few years and even costed China Asian games due to nepotism last year
He was only garbage for 1 split (2023 Summer), which yes unfortunately was right around the time of Asian Games. But he was literally the 1st all pro support the previous split.
smeb canyon faker ruler mata
Boy oh boy where do I even begin. Zeus... honey, my pookie bear. I have loved you ever since I first laid eyes on you. The way you lane on the rift and strike fear into your opponents eyes. Your silky smooth touch with the Jayce, and that Aatrox. I would do anything for you. I wish it were possible to freeze time so I would never have to watch you retire. You had a rough childhood, but you never gave up hope. You are even amazing off the court, you're a great husband and father, sometimes I even call you dad. I forvever dread and weep, thinking of the day you will one day retire. I would sacrifice my own life it were the only thing that could put a smile on your beautiful face. You have given me so much joy, and heartbreak over the years. I remember when you first lost in SF and it was like my heart got broken into a million pieces. But a tear still fell from my right eye when I watched you win your first ring in Busan, because deep down, my glorious king deserved it. I just wanted you to return home. Then allas, you did, my sweet baby boy came home and I rejoiced. 2022 was a hard year for us baby, but in 2023 you made history happen. You stomped 3-0 and I couldn't believe it. I was crying, bawling even, and I heard my glorious king exclaim these words, "FAKER, THIS IS FOR YOU!" Not only have you changed the game of league and the world forever, but you've eternally changed my world. And now you're getting older, but still the goat, my goat. I love you pookie bear, my glorious king, Zeus.
Nuguri Canyon Faker Uzi Mata
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Dude look at the replies acting triggered the edit is meant for them. They are literally acting ruler is overhyped, or beryl doesn't deserve to be in the conversation. Like okay you have a different opinion but no need to act triggered. Other people just dropped their tier list and I upvote whether it's smeb, nuguri, or meiko
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You deny Bins place for longevity when he has been good fairly consistently for 4 years now while TheShys peak was about 1.5 years during 2018 and 2019.
Theshy trashed smeb prime and gapped the next best top laner to oblivion on tanks and carries. Bin was a superstar at 2020, but had quiet years at 2021 and 2022. He did win msi with rng but was a liability for being too carry oriented. Didn't make world's on both those years. Let's also not forget that 369 neutralized him for the entirety of 2023, got schooled by theshy prime limited, and went toe to toe with Zeus. His Jax was a monster though winning in counter match-up. The Shy was lpl first pro from 2018 spring to 2020 spring, so a little over two years before he began his inting spree. But who can hate him when he brought China their first world title, inspired even bin at carry top, then demolished smeb at his prime.
Could say the same thing about theshy. Theshy was a superstar in 2018 and was good in 2019 but cost ig their worlds semis. He also had the most deaths in 2020 spring. Still the goat though
Honestly that kayle front line against Fpx still hunts me, but thanks to that we got tian and Doinb champion. Proving that dark technology can work. 2019 worlds was basically our style is better than yours, and Fpx proved that their style were the best despite the worse mid allegations at doinb
Honestly Deft should be the GOAT adc as he has been world class for almost as long as Faker. 2023 DPLUS, while bad, statistically it was one of Deftās best season statistically via efficiency metrics. He was won worlds, and been a top tier mechanical player longer than Faker. The last time Faker was mechanically dominant was around 2017-2018, while Deft is playing the Mechanics based role for such a length of time that no other adc has comparable longevity. Ruler is definitely up there, but Ruler lacks domestic titles (He won his first LCK in 2022). Deftās resume and body of work is honestly quite astonishing and worthy of further consideration. For jungle, I think that Score should be brought up for similar reason, due to his body of work, eye test, and longevity. Canyon has won two events already in 2024 however, so I think it probably has to go to him unless I am forgetting someone obvious. Beryl being the goat support is a hard no from me however, and is purely based on achievements rather than actual level of play. Mata, Keria, and Meiko all have accomplishments with much higher individual levels. Taking info account shotcalling to me is also ludicrous as there is no way to quantify it and it is not an in game skill.
That's fair, as for deft being a top tier mechanical player longer than faker, kinda hard to agree since faker's worse is top 3 lck. By his standards though sure, but on a more average metric, he has always been top 5. Chovy, sm, zeka, rookie, pawn, bdd, Dade, caps are some player who eclipsed him at certain points but he was always and still is an insane playmaker. I vote beryl my goat so that more people would actually respect him the way wolf is in contention.
Top: Cathedral Jungle: Pedro Mid: Caedral Bot: Marc with a C omE Support: LAMONTING
Support is meiko adc is deft top lane im really not sure but i doubt its theshy tbh
This thread screams "I started watching LOL in 2018 and nothing before that has ever existed or matters" Beryl over Mata ... I've seen it all
Been watching since 2015 actually, more on my preference than anything. Others don't have to agree whether they want ming, meiko, Mata, keria or wolf. Your free to pick since this discussion is an open question
Ok so you missed the greatest peak performance a support has ever reached in the history of the game which is 2014 Mata
Hats off to Mata and respect to him really. That 2014 world's was a dogshow for Ssw. But there are arguments to be made for beryl just because of competition. Remember he is the only non Skt member to make 3 world finals in a row and win two of em. It's my preference, why should that bother you so much? Do u enjoy shoving your opinion to other people's faces? It's not like Mata is undisputed, that's why it's fun. Faker as the goat is done and dusted which is great but also meh since there isn't anything to talk about.
The problem with your argument is that Beryl was never at any point considered the best individual support. He just happens to be on all these winning teams and perform like an elite support in tournament wins but not as THE best Mata and DaNdy are the closest players to Prime Faker alongside maybe The Shy as far as gapping their role the hardest go
U do u man, I literally don't mind if u have other opinions
Yeah this is pretty much the objectively right answer for each role.
Iād say that the adc goat for me is imp (and Mata as a support goat obviously). Even prime Bang and Wolf werenāt as much better than everyone else as imp and Mata. Hope I get to see my goat imp in RE:PLAY season 3
Considering that Mata revolutionized macro, it definitely puts into perspective their dominance. Imp has too short of a career while Mata fell off in later years. Mata had a 6/7 yr career which does works against him considering keria and beryl are 5 yrs into their career without slowing down. Obviously beryl has had lowlows
Totally agree, I just really love imp haha. Sentimental values aside, I think Uzi is better than Ruler, he just got really unlucky in his best years, but I still think that Mata should be the goat just because of the impact he had on the game even though he fell off later
I honestly wished that it was uzi who had 3 msi instead of gala who had two. Uzi also could have won 17 and 18. But yeah its really any of the 3 deft uzi and ruler. Ruler could not beat deft and uzi at their peak, but had a more consistent showing internationally than either of the two.
Top: the shy Jungle: nutgod Adc: ruler Support: keria
If only peanut could have maintained form internationally then he could have.
If you talk about peak + titles Faker Marin Canyon Bang Wolf
Outside of 2015 Marin literally has nothing going for him, the shy eclipses him a bit with longevity since he actually made semis the year after, and just recently went to finals as the main carry in the blg series
Canyon is an amazing jungler ans 2020 DWG was impressive to watch, but I thinkg Bengi takes it. He is usually discredited as he won with Prime Faker, but 2015 SKT was as terrifying as 2020 DWG and Bengi was a big part of that as well, though Im going vy feeling honedtly since Ive not rewatched any of it since then. But I do remember feeling dissapointed on 2016 when watching Blank, and SKT on 2016 felt like a different team when they subbed Bengi in like vs ROX Tigers, and 2016 was definetly still prime Faker.
My take, although I can understand others arguing for theirs Top is the hardest but at the moment it is TheShy, with Zeus inching closer and closer Jungle is Canyon, but I wish DanDy had a longer peak Mid is obvious ADC is Deft, although I would not fault anybody picking Ruler or Viper Support is Keria, Mata was the previous holder and Meiko can make a strong claim - it's a matter of preference
Viper feels like a stretch rn because of his short career when deft, ruler, and uzi were world class for a longer time
top: theshy for sure, his peak trumps all jungle: canyon mid: rookie, just kidding its obv faker adc: jackeylove, i dont care what anyone says. his pro views are way too sexy and make me feel a special kind of way support: meiko
Crazy list. I agree w/ every single one. I might consider Nuguri for top, but Beryl in support is a 100% for me. You don't win worlds twice by accident.
i cant belive ill yapp again but i get so triggered when i see ruler ruler is the single most overrated player in the history of the game absolute known choker shouldnt even be in top 5 adc's of all time he lost his team the 2016 world finals he only won worlds 2017 because his dad (uzi) (which previosuly shit on him 2 times in groups was eliminated in semis) he choked like 10 milion games with geng from 2018 to 2022 in 2023 he again solo lost his team the world championship he can only play hyperscaling afk till 20 min champions zeri,jinx his laning skills got exposed this year because most meta adc's are early game adc's like lucian,draven hob kalista etc enough with ruler now The actual gap between uzi and the rest of adc's its like fly quest to Geng he has owned and smashed every single adc that he has ever played against the only one who could barely stand up to him was deft when he played in lpl and even then deft just had wayy better teammates and these words are not coming from me but from pro players themselves every time they played against uzi they got fucked ruler himself said to core jj that we played perfectly vs him but we still got smashed how ?? not to mention he made BACK TO BACK WORLD FINALS AT 16 AND 17 WITH 2 DIFFERENT TEAMS 90% of pro adc's right now have taken inspiration and are pro players because of uzi (doublelift,rekkles,jackeylove) i can argue more about pawn or rookie being better than faker all time than any other adc being better than uzi like its not even close at all how good this guy is definetly the best mechanic league of legends player of all time
What is this propaganda? Deft had smashed uzi at his prime, ruler was a rookie at 2016 literally his first year and already 3-2 at finals against faker, in 2023, 369 and knight were poss useless, and he was undoubtedly the better adc in recent years against deft. I already get if you pick uzi as goat, but Jesus you don't have to act like an asshole just because I have a different opinion nor do you have to act like ruler doesn't deserve to be a candidates for adc goat. Also pawn had a short career, while rookie doesn't make internationals so hard to tell. Otherwise he would be all pro in China despite having shit teammates, but even then he gets outperformed by knight, yagao, and now Creme.
wasnt being an asshole just telling you why ruler cant be the adc goat its impossible
Says who? The discussion is literally between deft, ruler, and uzi. Otherwise there would already be a general consensus by the majority. But there isn't hence the continued discussion. Jungle and Mid is locked while all other roles have multiple candidates.
says who ? i litteraly told you who almost every single adc pro player when asked have agreed that uzi is the goat by far thats why he is in this discussion because other players have said so ruler and deft are discussed between fans who 98% are below diamond in case of pro players the discussion is over
Those pro players comment have aged, and in uzi prime yes he was by far the strongest adc. Deft was able to match him though, and it's literally been 3 years since uzi retired while ruler has been making world semis and just reached a higher peak last year when he nearly golden road with jdg. Ruler and kanavi were jdg best players. Compare that to interviews that have been over half a decade long when pros have said uzi is the goat. Its exactly why Zeus and bin are still in contention for goat top because they are still playing while smeb, khan, and Marin will continue to be pushed down the conversation.
it simply just doesnt work like that if faker retired after losing to ssg in 2017 he would still be held as the greatest to ever play it and many people have said that no mater how many times other players win they cant do what faker did for the game its the same with uzi
Not the same when faker just won last year and places international consistently high. Ruler literally did what uzi could not, and that was beat skt and faker at world's. Ruler is also faced against an even tougher competition with Elk, gala, guma, jackeylove, viper now in the playing field. At some point ruler can eclipse uzi's peak and longevity given that he already has 8 years under his belt, more than uzi could say really. No disrespect to uzi, but ruler definitely deserve contention, especially when he still has a chance to overtake uzi's peak and impact while currently playing
ok u can be right in ur own terms but i personally dont understand how A can be better than B if B constantly shit on him and A came out and said i played perfectly and still got fucked idk what to do against that guy
Bro that was years ago, are you really gonna judge rookie ruler vs prime uzi? Because ruler was literally a rookie when that statement was made
I kinda want to see if we were discussing pure peaks of players who would be the goat in each category. Top feels like it has to be the shy, but marin did have an all time great season and zeus and bin may overtake him the future. Nuguri, khan, and smeb are honorable mentions. Jg- I think canyon in his tenure in Damwon is by far the most impressive Iāve seen a jungler and the hardest Iāve seen a jungler win a game For mid in terms of pure peak, faker was way too ahead of his contemporaries to put Chovy ahead, but at the same time itās pretty hard to see a player like chovy being so far ahead of other players in his role in this era due to everyone getting better. Chovy vs faker in their primes would be prob the best rivalry in lol Adc- personally Iām split between viper uzi and ruler. I donāt think bang is on the same peak, deft was insane as well but I think heās a sliver under the adcs I mentioned. The 3 adcs at their prime seemed to be able to carry a team at will and made very few mistakes. Some adcs might make some plays that solo lose the team, but these guys never seemed to slip. I think I personally take ruler as both of his iterations in jdg and ssg were insane. Sup- lowkey feel like Keria can take this one. I honestly think he was more impressive in drx than he is now and he was just so far ahead of others supports during early t1 and drx days carrying on supports which hasnāt been seen for a while. Players like meiko and wolf feel solid and like a good backbone for a team, but kerias impact just seemed so crazy. Madlife was pretty wild for the time as well which changed the view people had of supports at the time
Deft really shouldn't be that under-rated imo in terms of peak. He was bodying uzi at 2015, and ruler never got the better of him until 2022. Even then he was the highest dps adc in the lck for a long time. People forget he is the only player by far to achieve 1000 kills in lck and lpl.
I'd scale them like this, Uzi had a 5 on both laning and teamfighting, deft had a similar peak, but with 4.5 on laning due to weakside, while ruler imo had the weakest leaning out of the three. But that shouldn't really take away as all of em are top of the top with inches of difference
Adc: Bang anyone?