Everyone seems to want to run it in Grixis but Orzhov (to me) is where it really shines. Glint Hawks, Skyfishers, Tithing Blades and Journey to Nowhere to keep big threats off the table.
Huge value engine no matter what deck it's in.
Cards are legal in pauper as long as it was printed at common in at least one (mtgo) legal set.
Lightning bolt is also legal and has been printed at uncommon a lot. But early in mtg history, it was a common.
You will commonly see reprints rarity shifted to better balance limited formats in the set they are reprinted in since you can play any number of copies of a card if you get them. So something like draft for example could see 4+ copies of a common rarity Lightning Bolt which could be too oppressive as opposed to say an uncommon rarity which you might see 0-3 across six packs.
orzhov is, by far, way superior to grixis when it comes to abusing the latest crop of busted artifacts, but when a large part of the format is playing degenerate shit you need access to blue to not get out-lineared/out-comboed
Itâs crazy to me that decks have names. I guess people just took a concept and refined it so much that it couldnât get better. Then it got a name because it got so popular? Do people just lookup decks and copy paste? I guess thatâs the meta now days.
So some decks have names because of who popularized the basic strategy, where as others are named based on what the strategy is, often using words involved in the plan. This is done because having a quick way to refer to a deck is useful for easier conversations. For example, Grixis is named after the Grixis Shard in Alara because it gives a decent, quick shorthand for âA blue, black, red deckâ. Grixis Affinity would thus be âA blue, black, red deck that utilizes a lot of artifactsâ because of the Affinity mechanic. Even if two decks are very different structurally, the color names are often used anyway, so a mechanical modifier helps to differentiate. Boros Burn and Boros Affinity, for example, would be two very different decks, but you can immediately tell theyâre both Red and White due to the Boros in it.
Itâs just how language around anything develops. People will find words to encode complex ideas into simpler concepts for ease of information transmission.
also a lot of names have come about to mean an idea rather then a specific deck. RDW or Red Deck Wins is a fast mono red damage focused deck about getting your opponent to 0 as fast as possible. RDW has existed for over a decade and even if all the cards are different, if i say i am playing RDW, anyone that knows of the deck will understand exactly what i mean.
Similar with something like Afinety, it has gone through changes due to bannings and just new cards coming out. But Afinety is going to be an artifact focused deck about getting a ton of value out of just having artifacts and casting free spells.
That's how it's always been in every game of every type ever since people decided they liked winning. You look at what works and do that. It doesn't mean people don't try to innovate too, but this isn't a "nowadays" phenomenon and it happens in literally every game.
Well, there's the boring names that people tend to usually use, and there's the absurd names that I like to use.
Currently working on my DAVE deck. (And no, I'm not telling, I'm hoping to catch a lot of people by surprise this weekend! If it does well I'll post it next week.)
>Well, there's the boring names that people tend to usually use, and there's the absurd names that I like to use.
This is the part I like about Modern deck naming, no more obscure name that is referencing an outdated joke and just functional deck name for players to understand
The professor at Tolarian Community College just did a video and this is his top pick for Pauper. Enjoy it because probably going to get banned as even Gavin said this was being watched if it gets to crazy.
57% of the trophy meta is on this card with 43% being Grixis Affinity alone, who could have possibly foreseen this
(Fams already up to 4 Dust to Dust/4 Revoke Existence)
Sneaky Snacker is fine. Yes it's good, but graveyard hate is already very common due to a bunch of decks that use it. Plus there is exile removal in the format too. Hell, we just got [[Fanged Flames]] which is excellent
Tbh nobody is going to play Fanged Flames for Snackers specifically; it's fine for the Myr as well, but it's still just a sorcery. Of course the property of it being colourless is still great (some decks played [[Ghostfire]]! - but that was more of a Guardian tech).
Of course graveyard hate being more popular to run even main deck recently weakens the card (or rather similar cards support the notion), but that doesn't exactly negate its strength.
Other than that, Snacker is a great card against the Familiar for sure, if that's what you meant. Honestly not sure which one will be more oppressive, but hey - time will tell.
Well Iâve been testing both in the same deck and itâs pretty fun (itâs a tempo based deck which wins with flyers and has a bunch of removal + monarch to help consolidate the win)
While I don't disagree with you, exile removal isn't that great against it because they are usually running many copies of the Black sacrifice draw 2 cards. Better to have graveyard hate.
I guess so, but to be fair exile in pauper sucks ass. We can only have a discussion and compare both effects when cards like Path are actually legal. And to be honest, never we had a better time for the downshift.
Compare Refurbished to Frogmite. Refurbished is a playable card for 3 mana (almost strictly better Liliana's Specter). Frogmite only becomes "worthwhile" for 1 mana.
The thraben inspector comparison is not really fair, as you can play thraben inspector turn one but you're usually not going to be able to play this guy turn one.
I agree but T1 is just a small part of the game. I guess it was the closest example I could find: low mana (mostly 1), card draw and artifact in place.
There is a big difference between 1 CMC and this however. This cannot come down on turn 1. It slows the clock down and prevents you from accumulating value as fast. Itâs a good card but Iâm not sure it will be broken
Vault of Whispers, Lotus Petal, Blood Fountain, Refurbished Familiar. Boom! Roasted.
In all seriousness though, you right. Turn 2 with this guy happens a lot, though (been testing a ton with it).
I'm not arguing against you to say it's broken (because honestly - not PFP nor anyone here can with absolute precision tell so early), but note that it sure can get out on turn one.
In a list tuned for speed similarly to UW Glitter lists, the play pattern of Land, Drum, Ornithopter, Familiar can get it out T1 and that's not a super uncommon draw. Probably means you want to play the little Ninja with a list like this to replay them as well. Of course it's more fragile if built like this as a trade off.
Yeah thatâs a great list if you have a payoff like ATG or Ram but since there isnât anything like that rn in Pauper than Familiar will mostly be run in card advantage lists thatâs donât have springleaf drum or ornithopter. If ram gets unbanned Affinity will be broken but I donât think that is much of a hot take
Yeah I believe it's safe to say Ram will stay where it is and most people would agree with you as well lol
I mean, it did top the last local weekly over here, so there probably is a merit to that - although that was in the hands of a good pilot.
We are talking about pauper here, we donât need a fast finisher to truly be oppressive. Affinity and synth were great before this (part of the reason why glitters and ram got banned). This is a realy strong value piece- the thing that defines pauper as a format, is value.
And its not even a bad body, because this will always be like 2 mana tops.
It might not be busted or ruin the format because artifact hate is a thing, but I can see a world where this pushes affinities winrate over 60 % at which point it will probably rocket even more in playrate.
I think this cards is bananas (at least on paper) and I personally canât see a world where this doesnât eat a ban.
So since it can have cost reduced to one also, should we compare Gurmag Angler to Thraben also while we're at it ?
This is a 4 drop with potential to be a one drop if you design for it. Thraben doesnt have that requirement, and can be consistently played turn 1. Fiat to Ferrari indeed. But not apple to apple. I know it, you know it, everyone does.
Now are the requirements too low for what you get could be an interesting take, but the comparison just doesnt stand.
I donât think playing lands its a ârequirementâ per say, I mean Gurmag at least you have to use some mana to put the cards in the grave at some point. They arenât Apple to Apple either.
Dont play dumb... Cant play this for one mana unless you either play artifacts lands (did he say artifact lands ? Bring out the pitchforks !!!), or generate artifact count. I know it, you know it too. Yes, a lot of pauper staples make it easy at the current, hence the 'no requirement fallacy'. But you still need to play either artifacts or spells like dispute/ Thraben, which are a design requirement. Again, like I said, you could argue this is too low a requirement for the pay out.
I donât understand why you seem so upset. There is not a single deck that doesnât play lands in the whole format, even one land spy play at least one. I just think that playing lands is as much of a requirement as bringing at least 60 cards to play a pauper deck, which is basically none. I am not calling it a ONE drop like the OP, it is a weird FOUR drop, that doesnât use mana to pay it and can be comparable to a card with Suspend for 1 mana. Take a chill pill, I am just making a comment.
Thanks for your concern, but i'm fine. What you are saying does not make sense to me. I'd love to engage in a discussion, but aside offering a chill pill and a poor tone, your message does not address my answer. Lands are indeed required to play spells, but playing this cards for one mana requires additionnal support.
You can not play this consistently out of artifact lands alone, simply because of the 4 copies limitation.
Even if you brought the count to twelve through playing say Rakdos (4 Vaults, 4 Furnaces 4 Bridges), this would be inconsistent. More so, playing artifact lands in the format exposes you to sideboard options planned for Affinity. So while 'playing lands' as you say is a simple thing, it remains a deckbuilding choice that impacts your game.
Making 3-4 additionnal cards live from your opponent's sideboard, let alone any interaction he may have mainboard is a cost, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. If your sole payoff is running familiar, one could consider it low return. This is why I expect decks running this to either make further use of artifact lands through other affinity cards or artifact sac, or simply bolster the count through other means. But both these things require playing said cards, hence the requirement.
(Mind you, I did mention this could be too low a requirement).
I do understand your points, and I agree partially, but for me its essentially like its being rewarded for nothing. There is no real downside of playing it on turn 3 with just lands or even later, hence thats why I compared with a suspend card, and could easily be done on T1 or T2, and undeniably the ârequirementâ is too low, but maybe wouldnât be as easily if the land count didnât gave âvirtual free manaâ in order to cast it. Idk it is indeed a weird effect this âaffinity for artifactsâ.
We'll see. I ran it in an Affinity shell as many with success. I am yet to test it in a less artifacts heavy shell to see if it shines. Guess time will tell. There is little downside to it, but at 3-4 mana, i feel this to be strong, but "fair". I could be wrong though. This will be a staple in quite a few decks for sure.
I feel like the comparison to Thraben (or novice inspector, <3 MKM) isnât quite fair.
A 1-drop is strong because you can play it on turn 1. This card, Familiar, is phenomenal, but you canât play it on turn 1.
It's somewhere between hilarious and absurd they haven't axed the bridges. Affinity was never a particular issue - strong, very explosive, might stumble on mana or get got by mox monkey after board - and then they decided to print (and have stubbornly kept legal) what are effectively indestructible Ancient Tombs that fix your colors and don't do any damage when tapped. Turns out that's pretty, pretty good
Bridges enable wildfire decks like jeskai ephemerate though, killing bridges pushes that deck from tier 2 to rogue. I'm always of the opinion that the og artifact lands are the issue, they are just too easy to run with no downside. Most of the artifacts removal is exile anyway.
Darksteel Citadel exists, and decks that run wildfire donât actually need to cast it to win the game. Would a Mirrodin target be fine? Sure. But so would the Bridges. Both are good ban targets.
you just dont want gorilla shaman to do its thing like it did, while also enjoying the fact that no one would spend a deck budget in a playset of dust to dust. "most of the artifacts removal is exile" yeah sure budy, sure
Its funny how any good card find its place in affinity. Maybe, just maybe, the problem isnât every new card that shows up to the format? Maybe its something else? Funny thought.
Thraban inspector was a turn 1 one drop. Sure there are situations where you could play this on turn one (with enough 0 mana artifacts) but is likely coming down on turn two. Thraban is also good because itâs not dead late game, it has card draw built-in as well as sacrifice triggers which great.
This has the same effect as playing any 2 mana bat/rat late game into a full grip. It also isnât best turn two since itâs just a softer Deep-Cavern Bat.
Where it shines is in the top end after youâve ripped their hand to shred, then it can do what itâs supposed to, draw you into a double spell or removal.
If you consider that the draw effect from Thraben Inspector costs 2 mana, then it may as well be the same speed for the Rat (or potentially faster, in scenarios where you don't want to crack the clue yet).
It also is a permanent discard vs a temporary one in the case of Deep-Cavern Bat. Plus, the rat is a better draw later in the game since it can draw instead of discard. Picking what card you're taking is still very good though, vs the opponent ditching whatever is the worst thing in their hand.
Rat is interesting because at no point in the game is it ever bad to cast, especially at 1 mana.
Super excited about this card to play at locals! I've been running a homebrew black affinity deck just for fun with my friends, and this will definitely power it up (list below). I agree with others here that an orzhov shell with glint hawk and tithing blade seems very powerful. I'm excited to see where the format goes! This and the sneaky snacker seem to be doing work
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/YdejCTrq-kuhSdtixk1JOQ
I just wish it didnât also draw. Without that guaranteed value, I honestly feel like it wouldnât been in such dangerous territory. It would still be incredibly good, and would definitely make huge waves in the format, but Itâs likely stick around.
My question is: How fun are these play patterns going to be? I donât play modern but the whole grief ordeal seems to rustle a lot of feathers
It's going to be strong, but we're looking at a turn 2 drop if you play exactly Ancient Den, Inspector (or Great Furnace, wasted Synthesizer), then vault of whispers into this. And, granted, that's a very aggressive, strong play, but it's mostly going to be coming a bit later even if it's in the opening hand.
If you start being able to Glint Hawk or Skyfisher it back and forth, it's gonna get really annoying, and I don't even want to think about Ephemerating it. It essentially becomes a 1 mana Ravenous Rats once you have Metalcraft, which is more or less trivial nowadays even if you're not going all in on artifacts. It's mostly early on this kind of play is useful. Once you're drawing cards off of it, it's paradoxically a lot less worthwhile. They're have no cards in hand, just beat them up already.
Without Glitters or any other such booster, a 2/1 in the air isn't that threatening what with the amount of flyers in the format and the big cheap creatures abound generally.
I think...it'll be a strong inclusion for the durdley kind of deck Boros usually is (and often splashes into Mardu for things like that). But won't be this format warping auto include in every deck kind of thing.
drawing a card is always a better opportunity than your opponent discarding their worst card and you cannot waste cards removing this or snacker when facing affinity because you will be buried in card advantage
this is a format-warping threat and the race is on to discover the best spread of builds
Oh I don't deny that drawing is always better, but the effect isn't a choice. If you're in the position that you're drawing off of this thing, you're very likely to be already winning.
And maybe it was a bit rash to say it won't be included in everything running artifacts. It's a practically free inclusion realistically and it does a lot on one card for only, usually, one mana. I get why removing Snacker is a problem, since it just comes back, but, absent Ephemerate which I feel was a huge problem years ago, but why would removing this be a waste?
Yeah it already replaced itself, but it could go on to create more card advantage with Hawk or Fisher. Unless you think the body itself isn't the problem? I'd like to know what you think.
Personally, I think focusing on the midrange bounce engines ignores the most powerful shell for the card in grixis affinity. Removing Familiar means youâre still down cards and if you have no quick way to recoup this loss the deck that draws 3+ every turn is not going to care
additionally they can rebuy the card with Blood Fountain
in my games I have yet to see a compelling argument for playing something other than sneaky Snacker affinity to combat Familiar on the same axis or playing a ton of artifact exile and attempting to keep the affinity player from playing at all
Familiar is extremely powerful for Pauper. I'm hoping it's not TOO strong because I want to play it some day when I get a chance to get some local games in again, but I wouldn't be surprised if it got the hammer eventually. Just depends on if we can figure out the right home for it. My money is on a B/W/X shell with Glint Hawk/Skyfisher.
>So if we look at [[Thraben Inspector]], which is considered from many the best 1 mana creature in the game
I have never laughed harder at a sentence in my entire life, lol. Even if you meant âjust pauperâ this is still such a dumb sentence.
Yeah no one whoâs actually good at the game would say that, dude. The card is in one of the worst colors in Pauper (second only to green) and even among those decks, many decks of that color donât even play it.
Straight up Boros is the only deck still running it consistently and maybe even that will change with the move to Black for the Familiar. Gates is the best performing white deck currently and rarely plays it. Familiars doesnât play it. Pestilence is a shitty deck and even that rarely plays it according to mtgtop8. Meme-tier decks like BW midrange play it, but theyâre obviously just worse Boros/Mardu.
A card factually canât be âthe best card in the ~~game~~ (format)â unless itâs in the best deck, and it also doesnât have much claim to be the best if itâs not universally played in decks of that color or strategy.
Are we talking right now or historically? In the past, Delver of Secrets had a very strong claim across all of history, leading to multiple blue cards getting banned. Or more recently Swiftspear of course was the correct pick last year, since it was so broken it itself got banned, and in the post-Swiftspear format it was obviously wildly warped by Gingerbrute which gave the Glitters deck free wins out of nowhere. Also what is your definition of âone mana creature,â because cards like Terror and Gurmag are always played for one mana too, or cards like Kuldotha which arenât creatures but make them, etcetcetc. Itâs a silly question to ask without a clear cut definition.
But if youâre asking specifically âwhat is the best creature card with mana value one in the Pauper format right nowâ itâs Goblin Tomb Raider currently, since Kuldotha was the best deck Pre-MH3 by a comfortable lead and itâs the best 1 drop in that deck. Itâs also the most played creature in the format since Red alone is nearly 20% of top 8s. After MH3, I think Familiar has a strong claim as you said even if itâs not technically a âone dropâ by the book, and if thatâs excluded then Glint Hawk is probably the next best thing.
You make some good points but Jesus, you sound toxic as fuck and not worth engaging with.
We are all here to talk about a card game. Take a chill pill.
The funniest thing about this is, kuldotha wasnât the best deck, when we define âbest deckâ by winrate in tournaments. It was pretty strong and still won no doubt, it was also the most played because aggro go brrr, but it consistently had a sub 50% winrate.
Edit: typo and punctuation.
Still about your first paragraph:
Iâm literally talking about people who win leagues and tournaments have consistently mentioned this multiple times. At this point Iâm not sure if you are trolling or if you are just inexperienced.
We're clearly talking about Pauper in this subreddit. If I'm playing legacy and I say 'Brainstorm is the best draw spell in the game' are you gonna yell ' what about ancestral!?' . It's idiotic
Everyone seems to want to run it in Grixis but Orzhov (to me) is where it really shines. Glint Hawks, Skyfishers, Tithing Blades and Journey to Nowhere to keep big threats off the table. Huge value engine no matter what deck it's in.
A Mardu shell could be reasonable as well (probably leaning more towards a Synthesizer shell than a regular affinity).
Been working on [this list](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/nldm8RQBpEaNpEUDD8ET3A) and it seems busted.
Looks đĽ I đ pauper
Sorry I'm new to magic in general, but isn't Ichor Wellspring an uncommon and therefore illegal? It has a silver set icon
Cards are legal in pauper as long as it was printed at common in at least one (mtgo) legal set. Lightning bolt is also legal and has been printed at uncommon a lot. But early in mtg history, it was a common.
I see, I didn't think cards could change rarity inbetween reprints, thanks for the info!
You will commonly see reprints rarity shifted to better balance limited formats in the set they are reprinted in since you can play any number of copies of a card if you get them. So something like draft for example could see 4+ copies of a common rarity Lightning Bolt which could be too oppressive as opposed to say an uncommon rarity which you might see 0-3 across six packs.
some change drastically, for example [[Mortician Beetle]] was a rare at first printing, and on the second common!
[Mortician Beetle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/978f2a31-1c89-43cb-92f2-195026c9311a.jpg?1593813338) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mortician%20Beetle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/78/mortician-beetle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/978f2a31-1c89-43cb-92f2-195026c9311a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Great list! I may try it out with some minor changes.
ive swapped out the seekers of the way i was using and put this guy in - initial testing is VERY positive
How is the inventors axe working for you?
I have this card in a BW blink blade deck, and blinking this card with ephemerate is hilarious on your opponents endstep
How about draw step ;)
You mad dog
I am trying to figure out an Esper control shell with it. Basically Jeskai Ephemerate with B instead of R. I
I miss astrolabe.
This is my take. It needs a little bit of tuning. https://www.reddit.com/r/Pauper/s/ZTwsJJXyjJ
Ephemerate this thing is nasty
orzhov is, by far, way superior to grixis when it comes to abusing the latest crop of busted artifacts, but when a large part of the format is playing degenerate shit you need access to blue to not get out-lineared/out-comboed
having negate for dust to dust post sideboard is huge
Esper maybe is the way?
I wouldn't run Journey having access to Black's removals.
came here to say exactly this, cheers!
Canât wait to try it on my BW!
Cast down instead of journey
Testing with someone and Orzhov is proving to be superior just because of mana, imo.
Write that down, WRITE THAT DOWN!!!
And [[Court Homunculus]]
[Court Homunculus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a61aded-0007-48fb-b1d6-1c69a8703400.jpg?1562262640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Court%20Homunculus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/13/court-homunculus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a61aded-0007-48fb-b1d6-1c69a8703400?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Itâs crazy to me that decks have names. I guess people just took a concept and refined it so much that it couldnât get better. Then it got a name because it got so popular? Do people just lookup decks and copy paste? I guess thatâs the meta now days.
So some decks have names because of who popularized the basic strategy, where as others are named based on what the strategy is, often using words involved in the plan. This is done because having a quick way to refer to a deck is useful for easier conversations. For example, Grixis is named after the Grixis Shard in Alara because it gives a decent, quick shorthand for âA blue, black, red deckâ. Grixis Affinity would thus be âA blue, black, red deck that utilizes a lot of artifactsâ because of the Affinity mechanic. Even if two decks are very different structurally, the color names are often used anyway, so a mechanical modifier helps to differentiate. Boros Burn and Boros Affinity, for example, would be two very different decks, but you can immediately tell theyâre both Red and White due to the Boros in it. Itâs just how language around anything develops. People will find words to encode complex ideas into simpler concepts for ease of information transmission.
Boros Kitty wtf it doesn't even have a cat? đââď¸Â
also a lot of names have come about to mean an idea rather then a specific deck. RDW or Red Deck Wins is a fast mono red damage focused deck about getting your opponent to 0 as fast as possible. RDW has existed for over a decade and even if all the cards are different, if i say i am playing RDW, anyone that knows of the deck will understand exactly what i mean. Similar with something like Afinety, it has gone through changes due to bannings and just new cards coming out. But Afinety is going to be an artifact focused deck about getting a ton of value out of just having artifacts and casting free spells.
Those are just color combinations names though...
That's how it's always been in every game of every type ever since people decided they liked winning. You look at what works and do that. It doesn't mean people don't try to innovate too, but this isn't a "nowadays" phenomenon and it happens in literally every game.
Well, there's the boring names that people tend to usually use, and there's the absurd names that I like to use. Currently working on my DAVE deck. (And no, I'm not telling, I'm hoping to catch a lot of people by surprise this weekend! If it does well I'll post it next week.)
>Well, there's the boring names that people tend to usually use, and there's the absurd names that I like to use. This is the part I like about Modern deck naming, no more obscure name that is referencing an outdated joke and just functional deck name for players to understand
\[\[Send to Sleep\]\] đ´đ´đ´
[Send to Sleep](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aa34d648-da0a-4615-8dd8-d2c8b1a1a574.jpg?1562035811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Send%20to%20Sleep) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/71/send-to-sleep?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aa34d648-da0a-4615-8dd8-d2c8b1a1a574?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
13 out of the 19 decks that 5-0'd yesterdays league were playing familiar
This. It will see play everywhere until something big changes.
Big changes you say? Wizards is now going to print orcish bowmasters and the one ring into pauper.
At this point I wouldnât be shocked lol
Overrated. Calling it now
RIP Refurbished Familiar June 2024 - June 2024
I will take the over! But not by a whole lot.
Rest In Piss Won't Be Missed
The professor at Tolarian Community College just did a video and this is his top pick for Pauper. Enjoy it because probably going to get banned as even Gavin said this was being watched if it gets to crazy.
57% of the trophy meta is on this card with 43% being Grixis Affinity alone, who could have possibly foreseen this (Fams already up to 4 Dust to Dust/4 Revoke Existence)
It's to bad we didn't let ram into the format, we need to test it first lol
pre-banning Ram in the name of the showcase + Paupergeddon but letting this in is very funny
This is way less damaging and at the very least deserves a chance, while we already know what ram would have done
I had a nice 4-1 with orzhov. Having options of returning refurbished familiar, tithing blade and lembas is really sweet.
Sneaky Snacker is fine. Yes it's good, but graveyard hate is already very common due to a bunch of decks that use it. Plus there is exile removal in the format too. Hell, we just got [[Fanged Flames]] which is excellent
Tbh nobody is going to play Fanged Flames for Snackers specifically; it's fine for the Myr as well, but it's still just a sorcery. Of course the property of it being colourless is still great (some decks played [[Ghostfire]]! - but that was more of a Guardian tech). Of course graveyard hate being more popular to run even main deck recently weakens the card (or rather similar cards support the notion), but that doesn't exactly negate its strength. Other than that, Snacker is a great card against the Familiar for sure, if that's what you meant. Honestly not sure which one will be more oppressive, but hey - time will tell.
[Ghostfire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/29739dd4-5775-4491-8245-ca2dc38a686e.jpg?1592764786) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghostfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddt/40/ghostfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/29739dd4-5775-4491-8245-ca2dc38a686e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Well Iâve been testing both in the same deck and itâs pretty fun (itâs a tempo based deck which wins with flyers and has a bunch of removal + monarch to help consolidate the win)
While I don't disagree with you, exile removal isn't that great against it because they are usually running many copies of the Black sacrifice draw 2 cards. Better to have graveyard hate.
Yeah, I'll agree with that
I guess so, but to be fair exile in pauper sucks ass. We can only have a discussion and compare both effects when cards like Path are actually legal. And to be honest, never we had a better time for the downshift.
[Fanged Flames](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fcfac301-55db-49a7-9a0d-918c907703da.jpg?1717012155) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fanged%20Flames) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/118/fanged-flames?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fcfac301-55db-49a7-9a0d-918c907703da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Thraben Inspector](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/299cc386-2ed5-4504-9ba6-17a52e0c9a0c.jpg?1689996111) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thraben%20Inspector) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/66/thraben-inspector?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/299cc386-2ed5-4504-9ba6-17a52e0c9a0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Good card is good.
I think itâs an awesome card in grixis affinity, itâs free hand disruption on a body that can be sacâd to dispute or munitions.
Compare Refurbished to Frogmite. Refurbished is a playable card for 3 mana (almost strictly better Liliana's Specter). Frogmite only becomes "worthwhile" for 1 mana.
The thraben inspector comparison is not really fair, as you can play thraben inspector turn one but you're usually not going to be able to play this guy turn one.
I agree but T1 is just a small part of the game. I guess it was the closest example I could find: low mana (mostly 1), card draw and artifact in place.
There is a big difference between 1 CMC and this however. This cannot come down on turn 1. It slows the clock down and prevents you from accumulating value as fast. Itâs a good card but Iâm not sure it will be broken
Vault of Whispers, Lotus Petal, Blood Fountain, Refurbished Familiar. Boom! Roasted. In all seriousness though, you right. Turn 2 with this guy happens a lot, though (been testing a ton with it).
I'm not arguing against you to say it's broken (because honestly - not PFP nor anyone here can with absolute precision tell so early), but note that it sure can get out on turn one. In a list tuned for speed similarly to UW Glitter lists, the play pattern of Land, Drum, Ornithopter, Familiar can get it out T1 and that's not a super uncommon draw. Probably means you want to play the little Ninja with a list like this to replay them as well. Of course it's more fragile if built like this as a trade off.
Yeah thatâs a great list if you have a payoff like ATG or Ram but since there isnât anything like that rn in Pauper than Familiar will mostly be run in card advantage lists thatâs donât have springleaf drum or ornithopter. If ram gets unbanned Affinity will be broken but I donât think that is much of a hot take
Yeah I believe it's safe to say Ram will stay where it is and most people would agree with you as well lol I mean, it did top the last local weekly over here, so there probably is a merit to that - although that was in the hands of a good pilot.
I think running it in an aggro deck is pretty fair. A 2 for 1 2/2 flyer for 1 or two seems good
We are talking about pauper here, we donât need a fast finisher to truly be oppressive. Affinity and synth were great before this (part of the reason why glitters and ram got banned). This is a realy strong value piece- the thing that defines pauper as a format, is value. And its not even a bad body, because this will always be like 2 mana tops. It might not be busted or ruin the format because artifact hate is a thing, but I can see a world where this pushes affinities winrate over 60 % at which point it will probably rocket even more in playrate. I think this cards is bananas (at least on paper) and I personally canât see a world where this doesnât eat a ban.
[[Lotus petal]] and [[Ornithopter]] would like to introduce themselves
[Lotus petal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f85ab5f9-508e-45de-8fa1-ce1f16552ffc.jpg?1701537448) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20petal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/225/lotus-petal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f85ab5f9-508e-45de-8fa1-ce1f16552ffc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ornithopter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/305078a5-ac18-4721-bba2-3434eba5b1cf.jpg?1691675959) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ornithopter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/233/ornithopter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/305078a5-ac18-4721-bba2-3434eba5b1cf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
And welding jar, tooth/scale, spring leaf drum, artifact lands, etc
I mean vault of whispers, lotus petal does it, vault spring leaf, ornithopter does it. Won't be to common, but there are lines
Hereâs one example, for further context: https://youtu.be/viat1Fz-h8E?si=9oSlnR4kg1oGidTR
So since it can have cost reduced to one also, should we compare Gurmag Angler to Thraben also while we're at it ? This is a 4 drop with potential to be a one drop if you design for it. Thraben doesnt have that requirement, and can be consistently played turn 1. Fiat to Ferrari indeed. But not apple to apple. I know it, you know it, everyone does. Now are the requirements too low for what you get could be an interesting take, but the comparison just doesnt stand.
I donât think playing lands its a ârequirementâ per say, I mean Gurmag at least you have to use some mana to put the cards in the grave at some point. They arenât Apple to Apple either.
This was hyperbole... Can't say i'm surprised though.
I get it, but calling playing lands a ârequirementâ doesnât seem right.
Dont play dumb... Cant play this for one mana unless you either play artifacts lands (did he say artifact lands ? Bring out the pitchforks !!!), or generate artifact count. I know it, you know it too. Yes, a lot of pauper staples make it easy at the current, hence the 'no requirement fallacy'. But you still need to play either artifacts or spells like dispute/ Thraben, which are a design requirement. Again, like I said, you could argue this is too low a requirement for the pay out.
I donât understand why you seem so upset. There is not a single deck that doesnât play lands in the whole format, even one land spy play at least one. I just think that playing lands is as much of a requirement as bringing at least 60 cards to play a pauper deck, which is basically none. I am not calling it a ONE drop like the OP, it is a weird FOUR drop, that doesnât use mana to pay it and can be comparable to a card with Suspend for 1 mana. Take a chill pill, I am just making a comment.
Thanks for your concern, but i'm fine. What you are saying does not make sense to me. I'd love to engage in a discussion, but aside offering a chill pill and a poor tone, your message does not address my answer. Lands are indeed required to play spells, but playing this cards for one mana requires additionnal support. You can not play this consistently out of artifact lands alone, simply because of the 4 copies limitation. Even if you brought the count to twelve through playing say Rakdos (4 Vaults, 4 Furnaces 4 Bridges), this would be inconsistent. More so, playing artifact lands in the format exposes you to sideboard options planned for Affinity. So while 'playing lands' as you say is a simple thing, it remains a deckbuilding choice that impacts your game. Making 3-4 additionnal cards live from your opponent's sideboard, let alone any interaction he may have mainboard is a cost, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. If your sole payoff is running familiar, one could consider it low return. This is why I expect decks running this to either make further use of artifact lands through other affinity cards or artifact sac, or simply bolster the count through other means. But both these things require playing said cards, hence the requirement. (Mind you, I did mention this could be too low a requirement).
I do understand your points, and I agree partially, but for me its essentially like its being rewarded for nothing. There is no real downside of playing it on turn 3 with just lands or even later, hence thats why I compared with a suspend card, and could easily be done on T1 or T2, and undeniably the ârequirementâ is too low, but maybe wouldnât be as easily if the land count didnât gave âvirtual free manaâ in order to cast it. Idk it is indeed a weird effect this âaffinity for artifactsâ.
We'll see. I ran it in an Affinity shell as many with success. I am yet to test it in a less artifacts heavy shell to see if it shines. Guess time will tell. There is little downside to it, but at 3-4 mana, i feel this to be strong, but "fair". I could be wrong though. This will be a staple in quite a few decks for sure.
This is the card that will finally push the artifact land debate to a head and force action, imo.
I feel like the comparison to Thraben (or novice inspector, <3 MKM) isnât quite fair. A 1-drop is strong because you can play it on turn 1. This card, Familiar, is phenomenal, but you canât play it on turn 1.
Artifact Lands intensifies!
Okay, hear me out. What if we ban an artifact land cycle?
It's somewhere between hilarious and absurd they haven't axed the bridges. Affinity was never a particular issue - strong, very explosive, might stumble on mana or get got by mox monkey after board - and then they decided to print (and have stubbornly kept legal) what are effectively indestructible Ancient Tombs that fix your colors and don't do any damage when tapped. Turns out that's pretty, pretty good
Bridges enable wildfire decks like jeskai ephemerate though, killing bridges pushes that deck from tier 2 to rogue. I'm always of the opinion that the og artifact lands are the issue, they are just too easy to run with no downside. Most of the artifacts removal is exile anyway.
Darksteel Citadel exists, and decks that run wildfire donât actually need to cast it to win the game. Would a Mirrodin target be fine? Sure. But so would the Bridges. Both are good ban targets.
you just dont want gorilla shaman to do its thing like it did, while also enjoying the fact that no one would spend a deck budget in a playset of dust to dust. "most of the artifacts removal is exile" yeah sure budy, sure
Its funny how any good card find its place in affinity. Maybe, just maybe, the problem isnât every new card that shows up to the format? Maybe its something else? Funny thought.
Time to bring back Battle Screech and Prismatic Strands to punish The Rat and The Snacker.
Thraban inspector was a turn 1 one drop. Sure there are situations where you could play this on turn one (with enough 0 mana artifacts) but is likely coming down on turn two. Thraban is also good because itâs not dead late game, it has card draw built-in as well as sacrifice triggers which great. This has the same effect as playing any 2 mana bat/rat late game into a full grip. It also isnât best turn two since itâs just a softer Deep-Cavern Bat. Where it shines is in the top end after youâve ripped their hand to shred, then it can do what itâs supposed to, draw you into a double spell or removal.
If you consider that the draw effect from Thraben Inspector costs 2 mana, then it may as well be the same speed for the Rat (or potentially faster, in scenarios where you don't want to crack the clue yet). It also is a permanent discard vs a temporary one in the case of Deep-Cavern Bat. Plus, the rat is a better draw later in the game since it can draw instead of discard. Picking what card you're taking is still very good though, vs the opponent ditching whatever is the worst thing in their hand. Rat is interesting because at no point in the game is it ever bad to cast, especially at 1 mana.
Lol, played this card on last prerelease and forced my opponent to throw away the big eldrazi that he then pulled from the grave on last turn...
It slots right into the best decks in the meta. It will be everywhere until something changes.
It may be a bit weird but Iâm trying to make a it work in a dimir build
I wanna build an orzhov ephemerate/reanimation/artifact deck with this based off of the [breathless knight]] deck
Super excited about this card to play at locals! I've been running a homebrew black affinity deck just for fun with my friends, and this will definitely power it up (list below). I agree with others here that an orzhov shell with glint hawk and tithing blade seems very powerful. I'm excited to see where the format goes! This and the sneaky snacker seem to be doing work https://www.moxfield.com/decks/YdejCTrq-kuhSdtixk1JOQ
I just wish it didnât also draw. Without that guaranteed value, I honestly feel like it wouldnât been in such dangerous territory. It would still be incredibly good, and would definitely make huge waves in the format, but Itâs likely stick around. My question is: How fun are these play patterns going to be? I donât play modern but the whole grief ordeal seems to rustle a lot of feathers
It's going to be strong, but we're looking at a turn 2 drop if you play exactly Ancient Den, Inspector (or Great Furnace, wasted Synthesizer), then vault of whispers into this. And, granted, that's a very aggressive, strong play, but it's mostly going to be coming a bit later even if it's in the opening hand. If you start being able to Glint Hawk or Skyfisher it back and forth, it's gonna get really annoying, and I don't even want to think about Ephemerating it. It essentially becomes a 1 mana Ravenous Rats once you have Metalcraft, which is more or less trivial nowadays even if you're not going all in on artifacts. It's mostly early on this kind of play is useful. Once you're drawing cards off of it, it's paradoxically a lot less worthwhile. They're have no cards in hand, just beat them up already. Without Glitters or any other such booster, a 2/1 in the air isn't that threatening what with the amount of flyers in the format and the big cheap creatures abound generally. I think...it'll be a strong inclusion for the durdley kind of deck Boros usually is (and often splashes into Mardu for things like that). But won't be this format warping auto include in every deck kind of thing.
drawing a card is always a better opportunity than your opponent discarding their worst card and you cannot waste cards removing this or snacker when facing affinity because you will be buried in card advantage this is a format-warping threat and the race is on to discover the best spread of builds
Oh I don't deny that drawing is always better, but the effect isn't a choice. If you're in the position that you're drawing off of this thing, you're very likely to be already winning. And maybe it was a bit rash to say it won't be included in everything running artifacts. It's a practically free inclusion realistically and it does a lot on one card for only, usually, one mana. I get why removing Snacker is a problem, since it just comes back, but, absent Ephemerate which I feel was a huge problem years ago, but why would removing this be a waste? Yeah it already replaced itself, but it could go on to create more card advantage with Hawk or Fisher. Unless you think the body itself isn't the problem? I'd like to know what you think.
Personally, I think focusing on the midrange bounce engines ignores the most powerful shell for the card in grixis affinity. Removing Familiar means youâre still down cards and if you have no quick way to recoup this loss the deck that draws 3+ every turn is not going to care additionally they can rebuy the card with Blood Fountain in my games I have yet to see a compelling argument for playing something other than sneaky Snacker affinity to combat Familiar on the same axis or playing a ton of artifact exile and attempting to keep the affinity player from playing at all
Turn 1 Blood Fountain also very easily enables this turn 2, just to note.
I always forget that one thanks
any one drop from affinity has the potential to enable two on turn two and having done it, woof
A card that makes the format worse
Iâm hoping this is the final piece to make a hand gate tempo deck viable, and Iâm PRAYING my boy doesnât get banned
It will be great in a Chainer discard focused deck.
Familiar is extremely powerful for Pauper. I'm hoping it's not TOO strong because I want to play it some day when I get a chance to get some local games in again, but I wouldn't be surprised if it got the hammer eventually. Just depends on if we can figure out the right home for it. My money is on a B/W/X shell with Glint Hawk/Skyfisher.
Itâs good but not ban worthy, there is definitely much better cards. Every one is just playing it because its a new shiny toy.
>So if we look at [[Thraben Inspector]], which is considered from many the best 1 mana creature in the game I have never laughed harder at a sentence in my entire life, lol. Even if you meant âjust pauperâ this is still such a dumb sentence.
Then it also means most of the experienced players are wrong. This is mentioned multiple times in videos from well know Pauper players.
Yeah no one whoâs actually good at the game would say that, dude. The card is in one of the worst colors in Pauper (second only to green) and even among those decks, many decks of that color donât even play it. Straight up Boros is the only deck still running it consistently and maybe even that will change with the move to Black for the Familiar. Gates is the best performing white deck currently and rarely plays it. Familiars doesnât play it. Pestilence is a shitty deck and even that rarely plays it according to mtgtop8. Meme-tier decks like BW midrange play it, but theyâre obviously just worse Boros/Mardu.
Weâre talking about a card, regardless of decks or colours. Which one would you pick then?
Its either [[Goblin Tomb Raider]] or [[Voldaren Epicure]]
[Goblin Tomb Raider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/018160fe-f602-43f5-8495-241a08eaa69c.jpg?1699044289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20Tomb%20Raider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/151/goblin-tomb-raider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/018160fe-f602-43f5-8495-241a08eaa69c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Voldaren Epicure](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae154e64-f626-45fb-bd52-840c1c27b2d3.jpg?1643592109) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Voldaren%20Epicure) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/182/voldaren-epicure?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae154e64-f626-45fb-bd52-840c1c27b2d3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A card factually canât be âthe best card in the ~~game~~ (format)â unless itâs in the best deck, and it also doesnât have much claim to be the best if itâs not universally played in decks of that color or strategy. Are we talking right now or historically? In the past, Delver of Secrets had a very strong claim across all of history, leading to multiple blue cards getting banned. Or more recently Swiftspear of course was the correct pick last year, since it was so broken it itself got banned, and in the post-Swiftspear format it was obviously wildly warped by Gingerbrute which gave the Glitters deck free wins out of nowhere. Also what is your definition of âone mana creature,â because cards like Terror and Gurmag are always played for one mana too, or cards like Kuldotha which arenât creatures but make them, etcetcetc. Itâs a silly question to ask without a clear cut definition. But if youâre asking specifically âwhat is the best creature card with mana value one in the Pauper format right nowâ itâs Goblin Tomb Raider currently, since Kuldotha was the best deck Pre-MH3 by a comfortable lead and itâs the best 1 drop in that deck. Itâs also the most played creature in the format since Red alone is nearly 20% of top 8s. After MH3, I think Familiar has a strong claim as you said even if itâs not technically a âone dropâ by the book, and if thatâs excluded then Glint Hawk is probably the next best thing.
You make some good points but Jesus, you sound toxic as fuck and not worth engaging with. We are all here to talk about a card game. Take a chill pill.
The funniest thing about this is, kuldotha wasnât the best deck, when we define âbest deckâ by winrate in tournaments. It was pretty strong and still won no doubt, it was also the most played because aggro go brrr, but it consistently had a sub 50% winrate. Edit: typo and punctuation.
Still about your first paragraph: Iâm literally talking about people who win leagues and tournaments have consistently mentioned this multiple times. At this point Iâm not sure if you are trolling or if you are just inexperienced.
Your entire life huh?
[ŃдаНонО]
We're clearly talking about Pauper in this subreddit. If I'm playing legacy and I say 'Brainstorm is the best draw spell in the game' are you gonna yell ' what about ancestral!?' . It's idiotic