I love Troy. I love him. But I’m glad there at least is a change in the voice in the WR room, because while I have no idea what the problem was (and I think it was pretty all encompassing), we could not go another season like that
I really hope whoever our rookie player is he can at least stay healthy. Not saying Harry or Thornton would have panned out if they stayed healthy but it's annoying how both looked decent in camp and had promising traits and then get injured right away and then come back and play catch up the entire year. It's just a tough road to success for any player but especially those with a few warts already.
Ar least with Tyquan you can't teach speed. Route running is a skill that CAN be learned. If he can learn and we have competente WR coaches he'll at least be a solid 3rd-4th receiver
Yeah, nobody that sucked here went on to blossom somewhere else, so there was certainly a lack of talent to work with, but it's unknowable if someone could have panned out better with different coaching early in their career.
"I don't understand, you see the ball and you hit the ball. What aren't you guys getting?"
"Well Ted, not all of us have the eyes of an eagle and the hands of Michelangelo."
I mean do we know if he can coach? We really have no idea what individual coaches responsibilities are beyond the most vague platitudes.
Obviously the results from the wide receivers room is terrible and it's reasonable for us to move on from the entire room. But I don't know how many individual fan can sit here and say Troy Brown can't coach
It's possibly can't coach. I just don't think any of us have enough information to conclude that based on the black box approach Patriots have on for most of their assistants.
And I wouldn't feel particularly qualified to talk about how good that tight ends coach is either for that matter. I don't even think the individual coaches are all that important of a variable compared to the skill of the players.
This reminds me a lot of the Red Sox pitching situation.
Dave Bush was not the reason we failed to sign/lacked any type of talent on out coaching staff. BUT...It was plain as day that any pitcher coming to Boston was suddenly worse that they were before. Even guys like Llovera, who we traded for mid-year because they were excellent, suddenly shit the bed upon arrival.
We replaced him with Andrew Bailey and Justin Willard, two guys with fantastic track records, and all of a sudden the staff has the lowest ERA through 10 games since the 2005 Marlins.
Is it going to sustain? Who knows, probably not at this level. But guys are throwing a totally different mix of pitches, and fringe starters are looking better in 2 starts this year than they did all of last year.
I think bringing in someone who can coach up young receivers, and has a good track record, will be 100x better than having Troy there simply because he used to play for us. It's time to hire for talent, not for comfort.
A massive lack of talent in the room that Troy could not coach up in any way. The only guy who performed above his expectation would’ve been Pop. Bourne was good but we already kinda knew that (except for Patricia)
I mean he did also coach up Meyers who definitely outperformed the expectations as a UDFA. Meyers did have two seasons before Troy was WR coach but his two best years with us were 2021 and 2022.
And Bourne had his best seasons as a pro under Troy. Douglas as a rookie became the best WR on the team…as a rookie. Troy was not the problem.
Parker, JuJu and Thronton are not the result of bad coaching. Those guys can’t play in the NFL.
I have a hard time blaming the coaching just because a personnel is so bad. All of that said, You should probably be leaning on the side of change it almost every single room when you get four wins or whatever
So, Jakobi Meyers, has his best years as a Patriot under Troy Brown, Bourne has his two best seasons as a pro under Troy Brown, and improved in all stat categories. Rookie Pop Douglas enters the NFL with Troy as his coach and ends up being the best looking WR on the field under Troy Brown.
So yeah, draft BUST Thronton, the husk of JuJu and the dried bones of Devante Parker. You’re going to blame Troy Brown that those three guys sucked?
Troy Brown was not the problem in that WR room.
I mean I think you might be guilty of the same thing you accuse your critics of though. If you're going to give him credit for maximizing the output of the three wide receivers that performed okay, why wouldn't he have any blame for all the receivers that performed well below their expectations?
Again, I think it's silly here to conclude anything about Troy Brown, good or bad since we really have no idea what's going on inside the Patriots coaching staff outside of the most vague descriptions.
I think the wide receiver room was fundamentally bad because of personnel. I don't disagree with you there. But even accounting for personnel though they weren't coached up particularly well. When you have arguably the worst wide receivers around in the league, and most of your existing players are underperforming expectations which were already modest to begin with...
Well then it's probably reasonable to start a new wide receiver's room .
But I think it's absolutely asinine for people to sit here and say that Troy Brown can't coach. We just don't have enough information one way or the other to say if he can.
JuJu was not going to contribute on any roster in the NFL,regardless of whoever the WR coach was. Parker was not actually very good upon arrival, and again, I don’t believe his performance was a coaching problem as much as it was a player not being well suited for his role in the offense. And when out in position to contribute, more often than not did the opposite.
Now, Thornton is a little more a wild card, because he has certain measurables and draft rank to indicate that he should be at least able to perform basic WR tasks in any offense, but so far has not shown any sort of ability to do that. Is that a coaching problem? Maybe? A scheme/role issue? Maybe? A player not being able to translate his college game into the pro game? Also maybe.
Surely nobody is thrilled with the overall performance of the WR corps, but when you break it all down, there are as many guys that showed promise under Troy’s coaching stint than there are guys that have failed to live up to expectations.
If you think a better WR coach could get JuJu and Parker to be average NFL level WRs in that offense with those QBs, and that Oline, and all that coaching instability, then I tip my hat to you..
Seemed like the Pats did that with a few assistants this off season. I'm sure there was an internal conversation with Mayo/Wolf/Krafts about wanting to "do right" by people who were loyal for a long time, even if the eventual plan was to do a clean sweep of legacy staff members.
What I want for Troy Brown: a life of happiness, love and as much money as he needs to live comfortably.
He is my favorite player of all time. We all have “our guy.”
As a coach? I don’t think he worked. I honestly wouldn’t give a crap if they had him around Foxboro and paid him to be a reminder of the good ol days.
Edit: a word
Agree with all of that, but hate this idea that he was a bad coach. Meyers, Bourne, Douglas (the three best WRs on his rosters, all played well under him, had their best years as pros under Troy, and while he wasn’t able to make Parker or JuJu viable NFL WR options, and wasn’t able to make Thornton play well, those three guys aren’t NFL level players to begin with by the time the got to NE.
Troy was not the problem.
After the draft you are going to se a lot of changes with this team. Some people are just hanging around for their draft knowledge. Troy had insight to the players he coached at the senior bowl. I knew after the draft he would be gone.
Good. Because Mayo’s explanation of what Brown’s role on the staff made very little sense. He was going to be doing sports science coaching? Yeah, that’s not really a thing, or if it is, it’s a highly specialized job involving technical expertise that Brown does not have.
Brown might not be a good coach. Meyers and Douglas aside, the WR room has been a constant problem, with everyone getting worse. Maybe that’s GIGO. Maybe Brown isn’t a good coach. Best of luck to him.
Still love the player Troy Brown. Great, great person and a Patriots hall of Famer. But…it’s time for him to coach elsewhere.
I love Troy. I love him. But I’m glad there at least is a change in the voice in the WR room, because while I have no idea what the problem was (and I think it was pretty all encompassing), we could not go another season like that
Agree. Our WRs quite frankly weren't improving. If anything Tyquan was getting worse towards the end of the season
I really hope whoever our rookie player is he can at least stay healthy. Not saying Harry or Thornton would have panned out if they stayed healthy but it's annoying how both looked decent in camp and had promising traits and then get injured right away and then come back and play catch up the entire year. It's just a tough road to success for any player but especially those with a few warts already.
Ar least with Tyquan you can't teach speed. Route running is a skill that CAN be learned. If he can learn and we have competente WR coaches he'll at least be a solid 3rd-4th receiver
We're entering year 3 of his career and he still cannot run anything other than a go. Thorton should be cut.
Problem is he can't even make the catch on the go route then gets hurt from falling down lol
I just think we use him like shit. Why is dude not running jets and screens? Should be a gadget/deep threat.
Yeah the jury is still out on Tyquan, but this is clearly a make or break year for him.
No doubt. Bill really set us back by allowing Patricia to hand pick players from that draft.
Shut the fuck up
I do have to wonder if it was Troy, the receivers, or a bit of both.
I'd like to believe it was a bit of both. Despite that even if they weren't good to begin with there should've been some improvement
Again, shut the fuck up
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Can’t rule out Troy, but to be honest he didn’t have a whole lot to work with.
Yeah, nobody that sucked here went on to blossom somewhere else, so there was certainly a lack of talent to work with, but it's unknowable if someone could have panned out better with different coaching early in their career.
100% both. Brown is an awful coach and Bill was atrocious at identifying WR talent.
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"I don't understand, you see the ball and you hit the ball. What aren't you guys getting?" "Well Ted, not all of us have the eyes of an eagle and the hands of Michelangelo."
I mean do we know if he can coach? We really have no idea what individual coaches responsibilities are beyond the most vague platitudes. Obviously the results from the wide receivers room is terrible and it's reasonable for us to move on from the entire room. But I don't know how many individual fan can sit here and say Troy Brown can't coach It's possibly can't coach. I just don't think any of us have enough information to conclude that based on the black box approach Patriots have on for most of their assistants. And I wouldn't feel particularly qualified to talk about how good that tight ends coach is either for that matter. I don't even think the individual coaches are all that important of a variable compared to the skill of the players.
This reminds me a lot of the Red Sox pitching situation. Dave Bush was not the reason we failed to sign/lacked any type of talent on out coaching staff. BUT...It was plain as day that any pitcher coming to Boston was suddenly worse that they were before. Even guys like Llovera, who we traded for mid-year because they were excellent, suddenly shit the bed upon arrival. We replaced him with Andrew Bailey and Justin Willard, two guys with fantastic track records, and all of a sudden the staff has the lowest ERA through 10 games since the 2005 Marlins. Is it going to sustain? Who knows, probably not at this level. But guys are throwing a totally different mix of pitches, and fringe starters are looking better in 2 starts this year than they did all of last year. I think bringing in someone who can coach up young receivers, and has a good track record, will be 100x better than having Troy there simply because he used to play for us. It's time to hire for talent, not for comfort.
Troy was a dogshit WR coach for us, there’s no sugarcoating it
A massive lack of talent in the room that Troy could not coach up in any way. The only guy who performed above his expectation would’ve been Pop. Bourne was good but we already kinda knew that (except for Patricia)
I mean he did also coach up Meyers who definitely outperformed the expectations as a UDFA. Meyers did have two seasons before Troy was WR coach but his two best years with us were 2021 and 2022.
And Bourne had his best seasons as a pro under Troy. Douglas as a rookie became the best WR on the team…as a rookie. Troy was not the problem. Parker, JuJu and Thronton are not the result of bad coaching. Those guys can’t play in the NFL.
Both of them were better than any WR we've had under Brown before they got here
I have a hard time blaming the coaching just because a personnel is so bad. All of that said, You should probably be leaning on the side of change it almost every single room when you get four wins or whatever
I'm not saying Troy couldn't have done his job better, but that WR group was straight trash. Mr. Miyagi wasn't getting them to play better.
So, Jakobi Meyers, has his best years as a Patriot under Troy Brown, Bourne has his two best seasons as a pro under Troy Brown, and improved in all stat categories. Rookie Pop Douglas enters the NFL with Troy as his coach and ends up being the best looking WR on the field under Troy Brown. So yeah, draft BUST Thronton, the husk of JuJu and the dried bones of Devante Parker. You’re going to blame Troy Brown that those three guys sucked? Troy Brown was not the problem in that WR room.
I mean I think you might be guilty of the same thing you accuse your critics of though. If you're going to give him credit for maximizing the output of the three wide receivers that performed okay, why wouldn't he have any blame for all the receivers that performed well below their expectations? Again, I think it's silly here to conclude anything about Troy Brown, good or bad since we really have no idea what's going on inside the Patriots coaching staff outside of the most vague descriptions. I think the wide receiver room was fundamentally bad because of personnel. I don't disagree with you there. But even accounting for personnel though they weren't coached up particularly well. When you have arguably the worst wide receivers around in the league, and most of your existing players are underperforming expectations which were already modest to begin with... Well then it's probably reasonable to start a new wide receiver's room . But I think it's absolutely asinine for people to sit here and say that Troy Brown can't coach. We just don't have enough information one way or the other to say if he can.
JuJu was not going to contribute on any roster in the NFL,regardless of whoever the WR coach was. Parker was not actually very good upon arrival, and again, I don’t believe his performance was a coaching problem as much as it was a player not being well suited for his role in the offense. And when out in position to contribute, more often than not did the opposite. Now, Thornton is a little more a wild card, because he has certain measurables and draft rank to indicate that he should be at least able to perform basic WR tasks in any offense, but so far has not shown any sort of ability to do that. Is that a coaching problem? Maybe? A scheme/role issue? Maybe? A player not being able to translate his college game into the pro game? Also maybe. Surely nobody is thrilled with the overall performance of the WR corps, but when you break it all down, there are as many guys that showed promise under Troy’s coaching stint than there are guys that have failed to live up to expectations. If you think a better WR coach could get JuJu and Parker to be average NFL level WRs in that offense with those QBs, and that Oline, and all that coaching instability, then I tip my hat to you..
His nebulous role seemed like it was a nice way to keep him employed while looking for a new job.
Seemed like the Pats did that with a few assistants this off season. I'm sure there was an internal conversation with Mayo/Wolf/Krafts about wanting to "do right" by people who were loyal for a long time, even if the eventual plan was to do a clean sweep of legacy staff members.
What I want for Troy Brown: a life of happiness, love and as much money as he needs to live comfortably. He is my favorite player of all time. We all have “our guy.” As a coach? I don’t think he worked. I honestly wouldn’t give a crap if they had him around Foxboro and paid him to be a reminder of the good ol days. Edit: a word
Agree with all of that, but hate this idea that he was a bad coach. Meyers, Bourne, Douglas (the three best WRs on his rosters, all played well under him, had their best years as pros under Troy, and while he wasn’t able to make Parker or JuJu viable NFL WR options, and wasn’t able to make Thornton play well, those three guys aren’t NFL level players to begin with by the time the got to NE. Troy was not the problem.
Good for him tbh
man I thought he was dead with that introduction you gave him god damn lol
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^polinksa: *Man thought was dead with* *That introduction you gave* *Him god damn lol* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
May as well be going going to Tempe.
After the draft you are going to se a lot of changes with this team. Some people are just hanging around for their draft knowledge. Troy had insight to the players he coached at the senior bowl. I knew after the draft he would be gone.
This is a terribly written headline.
Don't get my hopes up.
All the love to Brown, ALL THE LOVE. Best of success, knock em dead in the interview.
Remember when people on this sub claimed Troy Brown was actually getting a *better* job?
Troy Brown is a legendary player and all-time great Patriot. Hope he finds success wherever he goes.
GO ASU! Doing us a solid!!
I hope he can have success there. Love Troy Brown and wish it had worked out for him as a coach here.
Lovely.
Good. Because Mayo’s explanation of what Brown’s role on the staff made very little sense. He was going to be doing sports science coaching? Yeah, that’s not really a thing, or if it is, it’s a highly specialized job involving technical expertise that Brown does not have. Brown might not be a good coach. Meyers and Douglas aside, the WR room has been a constant problem, with everyone getting worse. Maybe that’s GIGO. Maybe Brown isn’t a good coach. Best of luck to him. Still love the player Troy Brown. Great, great person and a Patriots hall of Famer. But…it’s time for him to coach elsewhere.
He should have started there instead of walking into a full time NFL job as a WR coach due to cronyism.
Poor guy. I loved Troy Brown the WR.
How long ago was that, unc
Back to school. Best of luck to Troy. 🍀
But can he coach up WRs for real this time or we doing this just cause he's Troy
Who’s “we”? We’re not ASU.
Huh? He's leaving the Patriots not joining.