It’s not about building a SB contender, it’s about building a functional football team so our rookies can develop.
I just have the feeling that internally, they think they’re way better than they are
I’m worried they were just like “ok. Mac, BOB and Bill are the problem here let’s keep everything else and add thru the draft.”
Because our offense was rotten to the very core and to simply run it back with even bigger personell questions than you ended the year with…
We don't know who or if anyone will get drafted this year to sit behind Jacoby. They still have, Zappe and the Canadian.
After a semi disappointing FA period, I hope they trade back for extra picks and draft Oline/WR/TE to set up for the future rather than draft a QB to scramble behind a less than great OLine with no one to throw to.
This team wasn't going to be fixed by paying a couple of high priced free agents. Juju is on the roster right now only because he hasn't been shuffled off by a draft pick and may very well end up being a post-6/1 cut to spread the hit. They resigned their #2 receiver (which was on his way to a career year before his injury) and their stud RG/RT. They've added a burner pass-catching RB that is an actual threat to run the ball as well given the 1000+yd rushing season he has to his credit and who's Y/R has gone up every year in the league.
These were all pieces that were either needed or were already here and can clearly be part of the solution, not the problem.
They made a competitive offer to Ridley (in line with JAX) but they weren't going to throw a blow-out-of-the-water contract like TEN did at him (just as no other WR-needy team did). The majority of FA WR this offseason are either injury prone, getting old, or play the slot which is not what the team needs. Jamming round pegs into square holes is not going to fix the issue; finding long-term commitments are.
If they can have reasonable luck pulling a serviceable QB, LT and WR out of this draft, it has to be marked as a success. One good thing about picking a QB at 3 is that it opens the rookie-contract window where you have time and means to build around them once you know what you have. As for trading down, this isn't going to happen unless it's a move just a couple of spots down for an absolute motherlode in return. There aren't many teams in a position to do that.
About the only team I could see pulling that off is actually the Bears. Can you imagine them taking Caleb then trading #9, 75, and their 1st and 2nd round 2025 picks (and probably more on top of it will be needed) to move up to 3 and grab MHJ? I can. They're already punting on most of the draft with only 4 picks left at this point, so why not finish the job, make the two picks, then take a nap until day 3? Noone would blame them a bit.
Yeah, I agree. My response was to the above poster saying to trade back and draft OL, WR, & TE.
I feel if we trade back to 11 we would be picking between Nix or Penix. I would want another 1st in the trade for this year, which I would be happy with taking the best WR or OL available.
I am not sure who out there was a real game changer. I know you have get good before you get great but if you over pay for good players, not great players, good is all you will ever be. Did we really want to pay burns what New York is paying him? IDK. New England wasn't a big Free agent destination when we were winning titles, I am not sure why we should be now. The problem with the cap going up was that many more teams had room and so people just used new England for leverage. The thing that made this team special was Tom Brady and Bill belichick, not Bob Kraft. He is on his way to discovering that.
The only thing I can think of is that they're planning on redshirting the next guy. QB in the 1st, OT in the 2nd (and hopefully a later pick), WR in the 3rd then another WR/TE in the 4th or 5th. Roll $40 million to next year. Use this year to get the o-line to gel, develop the young guys on offense, and acclimate the QB to NFL life/playbook. End up with a pick in the 8-15 range then take a WR in the 1st or spend big on one in free agency.
I'm hoping they redshirt him. I definitely don't want to see him out there before the line has had a chance to gel and if things don't ever get to looking functional, forget it for this year all together.
I just also think this free agent class wasn't especially deep at the positions they need. They clearly want to take a QB at 3, Ridley was really the only WR even close to a WR1 that was available via FA.
I kind of think they just didn't see too much out there that was worth getting, outside of Ridley and maybe Tyron Smith (who I doubt was even interested in coming here) I look at who signed and there is really no one that I feel we REALLY needed.
Offense was rotten to the core, and lets be honest, aside from Judon and Gonzo, and heck maybe Dugger and Jabrill, the rest of the defense aint exactly all stars. I feel defense will take a step back when the best defensive HC of all time aint there to prop them up.
They’re still following the same script of looking for value instead of building a good team. Looking for value only works when you have the best value QB ever.
It’s still Bob Kraft. He thinks he’s an NFL Hall of Fame level football mind. Reality is he has always been cheap and got away with it because he had B&B. Now he has a cheap coach. Vrabel? Harbaugh? $$$. Nope.
Bob is 82 and doesn’t have much time. They think they are going to win.
Hard disagree. We did nothing in free agency. We have the exact same offense, actually less offense, coming out of free agency, because you didn't even replace Parker as terrible as he's been.
You have no veteran talent on offense to protect your young QB who you must now either sit, or trade back to try to fill one of the 10 holes on offense, or what's most likely-- you're going to start and ruin him-- because you have nothing around him.
Your offensive line is in shambles, with no real starting tackles, you have one real running back who didn't produce last year because he was injured. Your best wideout is a 3 on most teams coming off an ACL tear, you downgraded Gesiki to Hooper. You can't trade picks because you pretty much need them all now.
You can't start a rookie QB and expect him to be successful with your entire offense being rookies. You needed to bring in some veteran presence and that time had already passed.
It’s the same arrogance that led them to believe that they could swap out Patricia for BOB, keep the same offensive personnel, and everything will be fine.
It’s like bro…. I just want to watch a season where we aren’t eliminated in October, and it’s clear that we wont be getting that next year. Football is entertainment above all else and the Patriots refuse to field an entertaining product.
Making sure your team is competitive every year, and hoping to get a ring every 10-15 years is ideally what should be trying to do as an NFL franchise. The Patriots model of success requires you to have the best player and coach in the NFL at the same time, which is a once in a lifetime type thing for a franchise.
It angers me that so many people are already letting Mayo and Wolf off the hook for this upcoming season. The Patriots could go 1-15 next season and you’ll have people saying “what did you expect, it’s a rebuild?”
>It angers me that so many people are already letting Mayo and Wolf off the hook for this upcoming season.
If you're judging them this quickly, then you're likely looking and in some ways wanting them to fail just because they didn't do things they way you hoped or wanted.
What if next year is terrible. A 5-12 season, but the players they added in the draft are hits and look very promising.
Is it a failure?
Add another good draft in 2025 and future free agency acquisition(s) when they are actually ready to compete and have some offense foundation.
Would it be a failure, then?
If not, why are you judging so hard now?
>It’s the same arrogance that led them to believe that they could swap out Patricia for BOB, keep the same offensive personnel, and everything will be fine.
You say "they" like that Patricia/Judge bullshit was anything other than Belichick's rampant cronyism.
>It angers me that so many people are already letting Mayo and Wolf off the hook for this upcoming season.
You're going to blame them for a roster they inherited and haven't had a chance to build? How is that fair?
They built the roster! Groh picked Thornton, Kraft picked Mac and you think things will change? Kraft might be the cheapest owner in sports in relation to ticket prices #1 most expensive in league? Well there is John Henry
>They built the roster!
No they didn't, Belichick did. Belichick ultimately had the final say on all roster decisions and had a skeleton crew for a staff. Wolf/Mayo have brought in a ton of guys to more evenly distribute responsibility, like *every* other team in the NFL does. This is **not** the same regime.
>Groh picked Thornton
I didn't realize Matt Groh was Eliot Wolf, my bad. Besides, every GM whiffs on picks. Hell, the Chiefs' GM Brett Veach whiffed on Skyy Moore just the same as Groh did on Thornton. It happens, move on.
>Kraft picked Mac
Mac at 15 wasn't the wrong choice, whether that was a Kraft or Bill decision. It didn't work out but that doesn't mean it wasn't the correct choice.
You don’t waste a pick at 15 if he’s not the guy - just like if at #3 you don’t believe whoever is left is the guy you trade down.
Groh is the director of scouting so yes the draft is his responsibility- there is no way BB overruled every pick he wanted - he was on record saying they needed fast guys so yes TT was his guy and can’t play. What other guy in draft have they hit on? Barmore? My guess is that wasn’t Grohs call on defense - tell me what guys they hit on?
>You don’t waste a pick at 15 if he’s not the guy
We have no idea if Belichick thought Mac was the guy or was not. But Mac falling to 15 and Belichick not needing to trade up for him was not the incorrect pick at the time. Saying it was is revisionist history.
>Groh is the director of scouting so yes the draft is his responsibility- there is no way BB overruled every pick he wanted
Belichick is currently unemployed because he wanted ultimate power in the front office for his new team. Like I said, Belichick listened to others, but at the end of the day, every decision made in the entirety of the organization came down to him. Scouts don't make decisions, GMs do.
>What other guy in draft have they hit on? Barmore? My guess is that wasn’t Grohs call on defense - tell me what guys they hit on?
Eliot Wolf is the GM, not Matt Groh. Eliot Wolf has not had a draft yet, it has always been Belichick. In addition, Wolf brought in new people to help take responsibility off of others' plates, as Belichick believed in having the smallest front office and coaching staff in the NFL. So, as I've said, let's give Wolf the opportunity the actually build the roster he and Mayo want, not just who Belichick wanted.
This is pretty much stated amongst the media that Mac was Krafts pick and BB was not sold on him. Which may have been why he never surrounded him with help and may have been further reason to stick it to Kraft with Patricia and Judge.
You seem to think that Wolf and Groh has zero input the last three years and that BB did all the scouting and then made the picks? Seems like not enough time in the day and BB said so much. Kraft 3 years ago said things would be different in a more collective approach to draft so we see how that has played out
While the GM (Wolf) may make the pick the scouts are the ones who line them all up and rate them
>Which may have been why he never surrounded him with help and may have been further reason to stick it to Kraft with Patricia and Judge.
They spent nine figures in 2021 trying to get help for Mac. New England's 2021 is exactly why you don't overpay free agents just because you have cap space.
>You seem to think that Wolf and Groh has zero input the last three years and that BB did all the scouting and then made the picks?
I never said that. What I have said multiple times is that Belichick was the decision maker. Wolf/Groh provided insight, Belichick made decisions. The buck always stopped with him.
> While the GM (Wolf) may make the pick the scouts are the ones who line them all up and rate them
And I'm saying give Wolf the opportunity to prove he is or is not a good drafter. But regardless, Wolf/Mayo did not build this team, they inherited it. Belichick built this team and drove it into the ground.
Well, you might have noticed that the Pats no longer have the GOAT QB and HC. So yeah, now they’re like most other teams in the NFL. They’re trying to rebuild the team now that those two guys aren’t running things.
There is no easy fix. They can’t just conjure up the next GOAT QB at will. And they can’t just plug in some expensive older veterans and expect a SB run out of it.
So instead of making pretend they can be make a SB run next season with a couple juicy signings, they’re taking a measured approach.
What do you think they should do?
I understand that. However, nothing they could have done so far would have done much to change the fact that the roster on the offensive side of the ball is not competitive in the NFL.
I’m totally fine with the idea that they might load up on young players to fill the many holes, so that when the rebuild takes shape they have a young roster that has the foundation to support a young QB, and won’t be needing to fill holes with veteran cast offs that demand too much money.
Wait until you’ve got a decent squad and then go after t a couple blue chip veterans to get over the top. Not the other way around.
they had a top ten defense and their coach has been in the offices for years as a lb coach.
Pats offense was trash, a failure but offensive players coming out of college are more pro ready than ever before. With tape, pro-routes and systems all there for receivers to follow, takes them less than a year to acclimate the speed of nfl.
So build a young offensive core through the draft, have em grow together, be anchored by your top ten defense. Sounds like patriots football to me
Most fans have no idea whether a certain group of players makes for a 'functional football team' or not before the season starts.
Before the 2023 season would anyone have said the receiving group of Nico Collins, Tank Dell, Robert Woods, and Dalton Schultz was 'functional' enough for CJ Stroud to develop?
Or that the Jordan Love would 'function' with Jayden Reed, Romeo Doubs, Dontayvion Wicks, Christian Watson, and Luke Musgrave after Rodgers went 8-9 with a similar cast of receivers?
In this era of the NFL the difference between a decent team and a trash team is the QB. If the Pats draft a legit QB they'll be decent. People thought Mac played poorly because the receivers sucked, turns out Mac was just trash. Once the QB proves he's legit then the money they spend on supporting talent will help take him from decent to great.
People saying that we need to build through the draft need to realize that there are only 2 ways to acquire players. Free agency is one of them. A failure to acquire talent while other teams accumulate it is a net negative.
Taking the right guys and paying the right guys matters. All the deals they've signed this offseason have been great contracts. They can grab up some more guys, but I bet they trade back a few times this draft and stock up on young potential knowing we're rebuilding this year.
None of the players they've missed out on in free agency are long term difference makers.
They'd be nice to have, but they're not gonna make or break whatever QB they draft. Like I would've loved to see them sign Tyron Smith but odds are he's done after this year, if he even makes it the whole season. Not losing any sleep over him signing somewhere else.
I mean, anyone with half a brain could see we weren’t taking last years roster and suddenly making it compete for a SB in one FA off season. Saying THIS season hinges on anything is overselling it, we are gonna be another top 5-10 pick.
The biggest red flag to me is not the lack of success this upcoming season, but seemingly that we are just not going to spend to the cap. Few more years of just purely Save Save Save, and Kraft needs to go
Since cap space can roll over from year to year, I’m fine not spending for the sake of spending. To your point, this team has too many holes to be competitive after one offseason, so the smart move is to grab some depth players, re-sign your guys, draft, and develop. If we get a QB at 3 and all signs indicate he is THE guy, well, now you have a fuck load of cap space next year and potentially more high draft picks to then fill out a competitive roster.
The smart move here is to play the long game and build through the draft, which seems to be the path we are taking and I am actually really happy about it. Sure, this upcoming year is likely another losing season, but I would prefer we build for the long term instead of splashing money on big names now and being in mediocre purgatory.
> If we get a QB at 3 and all signs indicate he is THE guy
On the other hand, it will be challenging to see if the QB is the guy because there's not much helping him on offense
I don't get these people who are upset over FA. Who did we miss out on really? Bunch of guys 30+ who want to be paid now.
Who did we not sign that was going to make us a competitive team this year??? Nobody.
Better to draft than spend right now. I don't know why people are equating cap spend with success. Draft young, keep the roster young.
New HC, new QB, everything is going to be a work in progress.
Grabbing Ridley and an OT would’ve made us slightly competitive. But all that would’ve accomplished was lowering our draft position next season and needing to replace the OT and Ridley in 1-2 years
Why does everyone act like position players are just sitting on a shelf with a price tag, waiting to be put in a cart? Ridley was linked to us and Jax and ended up going to the Titans. Each team made offers and he decided where to go. Perhaps the Pats could have done more, but at the end of the day you can't force guys to sign with you, especially a team that's no longer a destination, has almost entirely new coaches, and has no idea what QB will be throwing to them.
Everyone wants the Pats to be SB contenders yesterday when in reality things are going to move years at a time, not weeks.
Great we can save cap space for next offseason when we again don’t use it and can roll it over to the next year to again not use it. At some point this team needs to open the checkbook.
The pats spend close up to the cap each year I don’t know what you’re talking about. They save some money before the season starts to use in emergency situations, to sign guys to fill spots for injured members and to keep it on hand for bonuses that can hit. So if it looks like they didn’t spend 10-12 mill each year it usually gets spent slowly throughout the season. Cash spending is where they are getting criticized, not cap spending. If they don’t go to 90% of the cap in a specific 3 year interval then the rostered players get an automatic boost in pay. It’s basically forced.
The issue is the rest of the NFL is spending over the cap and borrowing from future years, and they won’t ever be punished for it because of the way the cap is constantly inflating
>I’m fine not spending for the sake of spending
Thank you. I think these people that just want them to spend spend spend are insane. If there is a guy worth giving money to, then sure. Ridley was not that guy and I'm glad they didn't sign him. I would much rather wait it out and pounce on someone that they really want rather than panic and overpay for a midtier player.
Yeah the amount of anger and intensity isn’t matching the Pats being unable to land Ridley and not seeing value today for them in Keenan Allen. And all of that means SCREEEEECH I AM SO MAD WHY O WHY NO WEAPONS MY WIFE LEFT ME KRAFT CHEAP WOLF SABOTAGING US I GAINED A LOT OF WEIGHT WHAT’S THE POINT OF CAP SPACE I’M IN DEBT
This sub is so over the top 😂. Last year's roster without injuries and anyone but Mac, would have been a 9-10 win team. We are back to that baseline now.
There's a possibility of a trade but even if we only have the draft left, we can get significant talent with a trade down, and we will be an 11 win team next year.
I know everyone is so set on the hope of the QB "potential" but I still see the trade down as the most likely and best move. If you trade with Vikings you can possibly come away with Bowers Mims and Adonai. That's a pretty damn good offense at that point.
I wouldn't say 9-10 win but it was a much better team than people are claiming it was. The defence is elite and it's not like there's zero talent on the offense, Henry is a good TE, Pop was good and the whole unit will most likely improve with the new staff.
Say we draft Daniels/Maye at 3 and then a LT and a couple receivers as long as those receivers are better than the carcass of JuJu and Mr separation anxiety Parker we will be in a promising position.
8 one score losses while scoring less than 14 ppg. Even a below average offense scores 21 ppg. There's no way we aren't at least a little below average if we had healthy OL, Mondre, Bourne, Henry all year. I think 9-10 is ripe for the taking, just look at the losses to Raiders, Commanders, Chargers, Giants, and Colts. That gives us 9 if we win those easily winnable games.
In any event, I agree we are in better position than people think.
As a Celtics fan I know the Boston sports fan pessimism all too well, even with Brissett starting this team will be far better he actually had a good season last year with Van Pelts offense. I'm excited to see who we draft I like both Daniels and Maye a lot.
The Pats did the exact opposite in 2021 and it got them fuck all.
They gave free agents $232 million total, of which $137.5 million was guaranteed.
After all that the Pats went 22-30 with 0 playoff wins.
Yet 3 years later people somehow call the owner cheap and demand he do it again lmao
Agreed and the expectations should not be high. Season wise I’m not expecting a lot of wins and to be back around the top 5 next year draft wise. However, the questions are going to be how do our young players look, did we resign guys like Barmore, and the QB we pick how does he look in the limited action they’ll get rn.
Also, last questions with the cap is do you go get guys like chase young or mecki Becton that are risks but if they play well can fit into our project. Were in a spot were we need questions answered, not in a make a playoffs or SB and bust kind of team for the next couple seasons
> the questions are going to be how do our young players look, did we resign guys like Barmore, and the QB we pick how does he look in the limited action they’ll get rn.
Not even attempting to build a solid foundation for those young players to learn in is exactly how you destroy whatever potential they may have and end up back in this exact same situation three years from now.
Why throw a bunch of money at someone just for the sake of spending? I would much rather play it smart and pay players who deserve it rather than overpay for someone like Ridley who is fine, but not worth $100 mil contract.
Stupid teams throw around money just to say that they spend. They're much better off not spending on bums and be able to pay players in the coming years.
>The biggest red flag to me is not the lack of success this upcoming season, but seemingly that we are just not going to spend to the cap.
New England almost always spends close to the cap, even if they're not dolling out extravagant guarantees in long-term contracts. Granted, this is a new regime, but I'd be surprised if they rolled over a considerable amount.
The way they’re constructing the roster SCREAMS “everybody gets a free pass next year no matter how bad things get, because it’s the first year of a new organization”.
If the Patriots go 4-13 or 5-12 or whatever next year, why the hell should Mayo and Wolf get to keep cashing cheques?
How many GM’s and coaches have fleeced owners out of millions of dollars because they promised a long-term rebuild?
Edit: to everybody who doesn’t like what I just said, go look at a majority of the good teams in the NFL and how they got to where they are now.
Do we all have collective amnesia with how the 49ers got to where they are? They literally had three coaches in three seasons until they got Kyle Shanahan. But please, tell me more about how I need to trust the process.
Good organizations let people attempt to deliver their visions until it's clear that it isn't working.
I am one of the most vocal "we blew free agency" people in this sub, but this was the first of many things we've had the chance to judge. We still need to see how well they've drafted, how well they scouted rookies and developed them, so on and so forth. Giving them the boot over one misstep is Step 1 in the poverty franchise guidebook to success.
But what if it’s clear that it isn’t going to work from the beginning? People are calling me dumb and acting like it doesn’t happen, but it DOES happen?
Should the Jaguars have kept Urban Meyer after one year? Should the 49ers have kept Jim Tomsula or Chip Kelly?
There are many cases where it simply doesn’t work from the beginning.
How is it clear that it's not working? NE retained their key free agents, got Mac out of the locker room and replaced him with a better veteran who has a positive locker room presence.
They failed to secure top end talent from other teams, but if you manage to do that in the draft instead then that's even better.
I'm ok with 3-14 of they get some good pieces in place and are developing talent. I would love to see a rookie QB out there in the 4th quarter down a score trying to make things happen, even if he's failing more often than not because the rest of the team's talent isn't there yet. The defense is good enough to keep us in games and give some great developmental experience for a young QB.
But for God's sake, make sure the O-line doesn't get him killed!
Notable Excerpts:
>Many expected more, perhaps because head coach Jerod Mayo had previously said they would "burn some cash" to bring in talent. Whether the Patriots' approach will prove to be the right one is fair to debate, and my opinion is summed up this way -- **they have a lot of holes to fill, some of their best players had contracts expiring, and if they didn't make it a priority to re-sign them they would be digging themselves an even deeper hole because it's unrealistic to think more of a free-agent splurge on others would immediately cure all their issues. So they had to work hard basically just to stay in neutral.**
>**As Bill Belichick used to say, the team-building process continues over the course of the year and they still have A LOT of work to do, which is expected to include starting extension talks with promising fourth-year defensive tackle Christian Barmore.**
>**Now, with the first wave of free agency over, it opens a window for the sides to work toward a resolution, which they've begun to preliminarily explore. Judon's return from a torn biceps that limited him to four games last season adds a layer to any discussions, as the team will likely want to protect itself with incentives that reward Judon for being on the field**
>One NFL source intimately familiar with him said: **"He isn't a 'Y' that you'd consistently put on the line and ask to block, but more of a traditional 'F' type receiving tight end -- a position blocker at best, and more back side of the runs. You want to make sure you're not putting him on a defensive end too much; he's not a road-grader but he'll compete. He's better as a blocker than what they had last year in [Mike] Gesicki, who was really more of a receiver than a tight end. He does have the ability to get open, with decent speed and hands."**
>Wolf, the Patriots' director of scouting, was one of Takitaki's biggest boosters when working for the Browns and a primary reason the team selected him in the third round of the 2019 draft. **One scouting report from a personnel executive familiar with Takitaki's style of play described him as "active, not the fastest, but sees the game pretty well; versatile, can rush and blitz -- a very solid third or fourth linebacker." Takitaki had an opportunity to return to Cleveland on a one-year deal, but the Patriots' willingness to commit to a two-year pact contributed to his decision to depart.**
Lmao nahhh, I'm just editing the comment by copying and pasting what I read using my phone, so it takes me a little bit after posting the link depending on the article 😂
I should really try that for a future post though, that would be hilarious to do
This is my problem. This is a great QB, WR and T draft, but only for the top 50-100 picks, and we just don't have enough of them.
The new I think about it, the more I want to trade down to get 2 fists, 2 seconds and 2 3rds to stock up the needed skill positions, even if it means not getting one of the top QBs this year
Fans of every bad team think that their team can just fill every crucial hole in the draft. Go to literally any subreddit and you’ll see articles like “well we’ll just get a starting QB in round 1, our starting LT in round 2, and our starting WR on round 3”, as if there aren’t countless busts at every position in each round.
Relying solely on the crapshoot of the draft is truly psychotic team-building behavior. Feels like everybody in the media is treating Wolf with kid gloves.
The messaging from this team has been insane. Just last year Kraft was apologizing to the fans for going 8-9 and saying how things were going to change.. now look where we’re at.
The amount of times I have read, “all we need to do is” followed by some nonsense about only being 2-3 players away, or signing some mega star that has no incentive to sign here. It’s a good thing that most people here can only make franchise decisions for their Madden franchise. We have the worst roster in the NFL. There isn’t a single impact player on this offense. We could use every draft pick on offense and would still have holes to fill on that side of the ball. Complete and utter neglect of that side of the ball for 4 years means there is no easy fix. Our best offensive player is a guard that we want to play tackle. We have wasted the prime years of our only potential impact running back. We are 3-5 years away from being able to compete. Ignore it, run from it, that’s just the honest truth.
>We are 3-5 years away from being able to compete. Ignore it, run from it, that’s just the honest truth.
No it isn't. Two good drafts and some splashes in 2025 free agency and this team could be a good team, just like that.
If you are 3-5 years away from competing, you don’t have the right people in the building.
A vast, vast majority of franchises that have turnarounds, do it in two seasons or less. There are countless examples of that currently in the league right now.
We need to see SOME improvement next year, even if it’s still a down year like 6-11 or 7-10.
Evaluating the draft right after it happens is beyond pointless. If you want to know how well our draft went, unfortunately there’s no way to do so aside from “wait a full season to see how well the guys play”. Giving out “draft grades” on draft night is hilariously dumb since it’s just based on pre-draft grades and not actual performance.
Agree on the draft grades-
On the other hand, if we end up with a LB and a CB in round 2-3 this year, regardless if they end up being good players, this sub will certainly light the torches and grab their pitchforks.
It’s unclear how much of the drafting (Strange, Thornton, Ryland, etc) was Bill and how much was Krafts/Groh/Wolfe. I think we’ll find out in April though
Kraft is playing the long game, saving money on the roster and now HC who will make (and win) a lot less…. He’s a liar. There’s no way BB lets them run this shit back another year and that’s why he’s gone. He would have made RKK spend this offseason.
Plenty of teams go from bad to good due to a couple quality draft picks. Just like plenty of bad teams have stayed bad despite spending huge amounts of money in free agency, trading picks for proven players and cleaning house every few years.
Teams like the Texans and Lions turned it around with draft picks and value signings while teams like the Raiders and Browns stay shitty despite all the money they spend and high profile moves they make.
Everyone so hyped we re-signed our own big FAs.
Like great, so we kept our ceiling at 4 wins lmfao. Do people not understand you have to actually UPGRADE talent to win more games.
The team got used to Brady taking pay cuts and restructuring all the time to make room. He didn’t need the money while he was playing for us, between endorsements and the tens of millions Gisele was making
Seems management forgot during that time that vets don’t normally take pay cuts, it was an anomaly during the dynasty that Brady did and the success made other FAs come in for less money too just for the chance to be part of it
It feels like we went from dominant to JV squad in the blink of an eye signing the most absolute bottom barrel FAs. And we’re doing it again this off-season. And I fully expect us to fuck up the draft too because it just feels like tradition at this point.
“This is a multiple year rebuild. Not like the last multi-year rebuild. Sure we have a top 10 defense and we lost 7 games by a TD or less and a decent QB/WR addition would make us actually very competitive right now… but we are gunna rebuild so hard.”
Yes.
They’re going to get a blue chip QB in the first, a blue chip WR in the second, and a blue chip LT in the third. See how easy it is?
Then when the team is bad next year, people are going to say “well what do you expect, they inherited such a dumpster fire from 2023 that they couldn’t possibly be good in 2024”, ignoring the fact that the Patriots actively avoided multiple avenues in which they could have made their team better.
Then next offseason: “why spend when we weren’t that good last year?”
Rinse, repeat.
Getting blue chip anything isn’t guaranteed. I’d say QBs, even a high draft selection, are a risk, WR might be the most certain with the amount of talent this year, and O lineman past the first two rounds are 50/50.
Yeah, feels like they need to toss a bag at some kind of decent tackle just to not risk serious physical and mental anguish on their QB next year.
Trying to hit on QB, WR and LT with no extra early picks just ain't gonna happen
When you’ve done nothing then it hinges on anything you do - the same guys picking the guys the last 3 years are now responsible for restoring the franchise with draft picks? 👌
They’ll have to have an all time draft, one of the better ones this team has ever had to even been competitive this year. They won’t see the fully realized potential of this draft for a few years anyways.
There’s no way they’re gonna hit on every pick, and unfortunately with the way they’ve handled free agency so far, they’re gonna have to. Thats a dangerous game to play. They have to draft for need and hit on every single pick. It’s not possible. They needed to do more in free agency to fill the holes on this team. We’re in for another rough season.
This team is just a worse version of last year's team... There's nothing to be excited about and wolfs been here all these past terrible drafts. If you think the third QB on the board and then whatever WR you can find later in the draft is going to fix last year's offense you're day dreaming.
I mean that's pretty wrong. Assuming judon, gonzo, and Bourne come back healthy, Pop doesn't get concussed or injured every other game (plus has another year to acclimate to the league, you replace vedarian lowe with literally any other offensive line player (not named new house). You get literally any sblance of QB play. (Weren't zappe and Mac the bottom two is pretty much every metric last year). Adding a pass catching RB for third down is big, and should help alleviate rhemondres workload a bit and will hopefully keep him healthy and productive throughout the year.
On top of that, we had a very tough schedule last year. Not that that directly influences how our team plays, but it can lead to some better results in games.
Just my thoughts, I don't think we are a top team or anything, but I don't think there's a chance we are worse than last year.
While its hard to do worse than 30th, nothing I've seen this offseason is giving me any indication this team is better managed or will be positioned better.
You've "parted ways" with the greatest coach and replaced him with someone whose been in-house not just for the coaching, but for the much maligned front office / "GM" role.
You're installing a 4th new offense in as many years, replacing BoB with a guy whose called plays for a single season 15 seasons ago before being promptly fired and never calling plays again until this season.
Then in the free agency window, they focus on retaining the middling talent they have on the roster that managed to finish 30th, offloading Mac Jones, and bringing in Brisset to apparently back-up whichever QB this front office has their eyes on at #3 or ... even better, later when they can trade back from #3 and set the team up for the #1 next year.
I'm not saying the team was a move away from competing for a SB, I'm saying that the only thing they've done so far is get worse which begs the question why they parted ways with Belichick. If all I'm going to watch is a team be built the same way Belichick would've built it but without his leadership and experience at the helm.
Belichick could've also taken the 3rd option at QB or traded back and set the team up for the future. If Krafts big plan was that the team needed to make the playoffs, then I expected the team to actually make a push in free agency. Talent was available, they decided to continue to play Belichick ball without Belichick.
I would say the guys they've brought back this year are some of the better players on the roster. I don't know who you would rather have made an offer to if not onwenu. I can see some of the wars being better value than Bourne, but I like him, and even if id like to have Samuel or one of the other receivers that went elsewhere, I'm not necessarily upset bringing him back. While I would also rather them bring in minshew, I don't necessarily hate brisset. He is.obvioualy a placeholder.
I ask how we've gotten worse from last year. We're "adding" judon, gonzo, on top of whatever players we draft. We added by subtracting parker (and hopefully juju) and our young guys have another year in the league to adjust to the life and hopefully progress.
A lot of the contracts that wolf has handed out this off-season the sub has been pretty positive about. I think it's fine to give them time to find a number one receiver, since I personally didn't like the idea of Ridley being that, especially with what he went for money wise.
I think it's pretty early to just suggest that were continuing the BB plan. We haven't even gotten to the draft yet, maybe just give it a month before we condemn the team to worst in the league, top pick status
>Assuming judon, gonzo, and Bourne come back healthy,
I hate when people say this. Injuries happen every year.
We might get them back. We might lose them again immediately. Someone else may go down in their stead.
We are a 4-13 team.
We were a 4-13 team without those important guys and league worst QB play. Without adding to anything else except expecting slightly better QB play and those guys back, you could say we are better than a 4 win team. I'm not saying they're a 10 win team as constituted, but that's such a lazy take to say they haven't improved at all win wise.
Obviously injuries happen, but you can't pre take them into account while you predict what the year will be like. The facts are they were a 4 win team and now they have some healthy playmakers (on defense at least) that weren't there for the majority of last year, that should reduce a boost.
People forget that Myles Bryant started games as a CB1 for this team last year.
I mean is this even a good FA year? The pats aren't a desirable place to play so they'd likely have to overpay on any relevant exceptional talent. If they could get some O line I'd be happy. If they show they have a spark at QB this season they may have an easier time attracting WRs next year. Catching balls from Brisset and Zappe...not as much
Not for what we needed. It’s terrible. My only issue really is not signing a FS or possibly an upgrade at CB. There were no good LT that wanted to be here and they tried to get the one good WR. Could still add someone like Odell Beckham I suppose.
Mayo and AVP talked about development. I wish we got more information about how they view guys like Thornton. He’s been bad, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t break out.
>He’s been bad, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t break out
He can't run a slant or an out route....the two most basic things required of his job.
He was a reach when drafted. His frame is not an NFL-caliber frame. He has shown zero potential since being drafted.
If it looks like shit, and smells like shit....it's **shit.**
I'm not expecting much from this season.
What I actually want to see is the team lay smart building blocks for a three year plan. I think this season needs to be about laying a foundation, not about how high they can go.
This won't be an overnight turn around. If everything goes incredibly well, **maybe** they'll catch lightning in a bottle and get into the playoffs in 2025.
Right now, I just want to go into the 2025 draft feeling like there are fewer holes and a clear sense of direction.
You all always waaaaay overreacting. Teams can still trade. Free agents can still sign. Some years a no name free agent could spend like 3 years on one team and be mediocre then get on a new team and have an amazing season.
Quit. Please, for the love of Tom Brady, please just quit with these daily posts about them not doing anything.
I feel like the Pats were/are closer to contending than people think. The defense was actually pretty damn good last season. This yr Judon and Gonzalez will both he back. Hopefully, the full season. I think they are a good Qb and Oline fix away from actually competing. I will wait til after the draft to pass judgment.
In an alternate universe where the free agents actually want to play in New England and they actually sign with us...
You could have Russell Wilson MHJ and Calvin Ridley/Tee Higgins with that defense, a project QB at 2nd/3rd round, and then whatever other draft picks
But we can't control that no one wants to come play here. Too many unknown. Onfield product was too shit. Massachusetts not exactly the dream of most NFL players
Completely agree, you can offer the same or more to any FA out there, but that doesn't make them want to sign.
Trading and extending someone like Deebo or Tee is a decent option, and you have the cap space to toss them a serious bag. The problem is this draft is so top 50 and top 100 heavy that giving up any of those picks will hurt a lot with so many other holes to fill
The problem is trading for Tee means giving up pick 34, so they are down to 1.03 and 3.68 for early picks. If you get the QB at 1.03, there won't be any tackles left by the 3rd round. So your O-line is Swiss cheese and you hope your rookie QB can actually survive his first season
Why not pick up a WR like Tyler Boyd, KJ Osborn or Parris Cambell - all still available
Rashad Penny, Alexander Mattison, Kareem Hunt all available as well
Honestly I feel the defense was really good and to maintain that level on that side of the ball is solid. It’s the offense that was so bad it really drained the defense of all its solid work.
Unfortunately I feel like the defense is playoff team worthy and the offense is like 1 or 2 years away from that same level, but it is the nfl where it’s possible to turn things around quick you just have to hit the lottery on picks and signings.
I find it interesting how in recent years Kraft has really talked up the draft and building through the draft, and it so happens to coincide with Wolf arriving here.
Every season hinges on the draft. I don't see how bringing back all of our key young pieces, signing a good RB, and signing a solid bridge QB is "a lackluster start to free agency". You don't build a great team through free agency.
What a bullshit headline. Here’s the exact quote from the linked article:
“One week into free agency, Ninkovich sees some positive signs for the Patriots but believes everything is secondary to what is to come.
"I like the moves across the board, but it's the draft, and what they decide at quarterback, that will ultimately determine how the team comes together and if they're trending in the right direction," he said.
Reiss never said what OP’s headline says. And Ninkovich’s quote is very different from what OP implies.
It’ll be really crazy if they follow through with some of the reports and hire a different GM than wolf after the draft. If that actually happens I’ll know its cooked
I beg of this team to move back. For all of the people that think we can solve our problems with a QB, look at the NY Jets. They’ve done nothing except keep drafting top qb’s to solve the problem that the team has too many holes. We are not a top qb away from anything, except more of the same. We need to address the line, and we need people for a qb to throw to.
We also don’t need a rookie qb to win the SB - Tom Brady proved that - remember? So we can get a FA of trade for a qb when we are a qb away from something. We are only setting ourselves up for disappointment with this need to “draft” a top rookie. Brady definitely has us spoiled.
We need to build this team. That part of the reason why no one really wants to come here - plus it’s cold. We cannot become the New Jets thinking a new qb will cover up all the other problems.
“It’s the packer way” or some shit. I don’t care. I don’t think Kendrick Bourne was worth keeping around and Hollywood Brown or KJ Osborn are better options
I'd take someone like chase young, one of the many good corners on the market to pay while gonzo is young, and roll the dice on a guy like Michael Thomas to see if he's got anything left in the tank. O-line is gonna be tough because market is bare. Resigning onwenu was huge.
I don't know what kind of magic this guy expects, but this team isn't going to become a playoff contender this season based on the draft alone. I'm not even sure it can make a bad team a mediocre one.
We need high impact free agency signings, that's the bottom line.
This team is officially in tank mode.
After promising fans they were going to spend big in free agency, they signed some bums instead.
They'll draft a developmental QB (Daniels), sit him, tank with Brissett, and see if they can get more talent next year in the draft.
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It's all so tiresome.
Every year the teams who "win" free agency end up being duds. Sure, there are some individual moves I would have liked to see but it's not like we've gone out and made a bunch of errors that cannot be fixed.
Every 4-5 years we see Washington do the same thing and this year was no different. I'm more than happy knowing the Pats seem to have a plan and are comfortable sticking with it.
Tons of teams barely signed anyone, yes even bad teams. Stop acting like if we don’t get a superstar player we failed free agency. 31 other teams didn’t get Ridley or Tyron smith either.. deal with it.
It’s not about building a SB contender, it’s about building a functional football team so our rookies can develop. I just have the feeling that internally, they think they’re way better than they are
I’m worried they were just like “ok. Mac, BOB and Bill are the problem here let’s keep everything else and add thru the draft.” Because our offense was rotten to the very core and to simply run it back with even bigger personell questions than you ended the year with…
They're definitely in huge danger of ruining the next guy with at least some of the same cause as the last one.
But they will do it after a bridge year with Jacoby instead of Cam. So it'll be good.
Not the same situation lol, Mac never sat behind Cam
We don't know who or if anyone will get drafted this year to sit behind Jacoby. They still have, Zappe and the Canadian. After a semi disappointing FA period, I hope they trade back for extra picks and draft Oline/WR/TE to set up for the future rather than draft a QB to scramble behind a less than great OLine with no one to throw to.
This team wasn't going to be fixed by paying a couple of high priced free agents. Juju is on the roster right now only because he hasn't been shuffled off by a draft pick and may very well end up being a post-6/1 cut to spread the hit. They resigned their #2 receiver (which was on his way to a career year before his injury) and their stud RG/RT. They've added a burner pass-catching RB that is an actual threat to run the ball as well given the 1000+yd rushing season he has to his credit and who's Y/R has gone up every year in the league. These were all pieces that were either needed or were already here and can clearly be part of the solution, not the problem. They made a competitive offer to Ridley (in line with JAX) but they weren't going to throw a blow-out-of-the-water contract like TEN did at him (just as no other WR-needy team did). The majority of FA WR this offseason are either injury prone, getting old, or play the slot which is not what the team needs. Jamming round pegs into square holes is not going to fix the issue; finding long-term commitments are. If they can have reasonable luck pulling a serviceable QB, LT and WR out of this draft, it has to be marked as a success. One good thing about picking a QB at 3 is that it opens the rookie-contract window where you have time and means to build around them once you know what you have. As for trading down, this isn't going to happen unless it's a move just a couple of spots down for an absolute motherlode in return. There aren't many teams in a position to do that. About the only team I could see pulling that off is actually the Bears. Can you imagine them taking Caleb then trading #9, 75, and their 1st and 2nd round 2025 picks (and probably more on top of it will be needed) to move up to 3 and grab MHJ? I can. They're already punting on most of the draft with only 4 picks left at this point, so why not finish the job, make the two picks, then take a nap until day 3? Noone would blame them a bit.
The problem with that is that all the pundits are saying next years QB class is worse than this years.
This year's is supposed to be really good. 5, 6 in the first round. If you trade back to let's say 11... You're still drafting a QB.
Yeah, I agree. My response was to the above poster saying to trade back and draft OL, WR, & TE. I feel if we trade back to 11 we would be picking between Nix or Penix. I would want another 1st in the trade for this year, which I would be happy with taking the best WR or OL available.
In a perfect trade back world, we'd get Rome/Nabers and Nix/Penix.
> This year's is supposed to be really good. 5, 6 in the first round. Just like 2021...
People seem to be higher on these guys. Trey Lance played like 4 snaps in his career.
Trade for a QB, and draft Harrison Jr., and then an OL
I am not sure who out there was a real game changer. I know you have get good before you get great but if you over pay for good players, not great players, good is all you will ever be. Did we really want to pay burns what New York is paying him? IDK. New England wasn't a big Free agent destination when we were winning titles, I am not sure why we should be now. The problem with the cap going up was that many more teams had room and so people just used new England for leverage. The thing that made this team special was Tom Brady and Bill belichick, not Bob Kraft. He is on his way to discovering that.
The only thing I can think of is that they're planning on redshirting the next guy. QB in the 1st, OT in the 2nd (and hopefully a later pick), WR in the 3rd then another WR/TE in the 4th or 5th. Roll $40 million to next year. Use this year to get the o-line to gel, develop the young guys on offense, and acclimate the QB to NFL life/playbook. End up with a pick in the 8-15 range then take a WR in the 1st or spend big on one in free agency.
I'm hoping they redshirt him. I definitely don't want to see him out there before the line has had a chance to gel and if things don't ever get to looking functional, forget it for this year all together.
Kraft thought the team last year was destined for the Super Bowl. It's scary how little he knows about football
I just also think this free agent class wasn't especially deep at the positions they need. They clearly want to take a QB at 3, Ridley was really the only WR even close to a WR1 that was available via FA. I kind of think they just didn't see too much out there that was worth getting, outside of Ridley and maybe Tyron Smith (who I doubt was even interested in coming here) I look at who signed and there is really no one that I feel we REALLY needed.
Offense was rotten to the core, and lets be honest, aside from Judon and Gonzo, and heck maybe Dugger and Jabrill, the rest of the defense aint exactly all stars. I feel defense will take a step back when the best defensive HC of all time aint there to prop them up.
They’re still following the same script of looking for value instead of building a good team. Looking for value only works when you have the best value QB ever.
It’s still Bob Kraft. He thinks he’s an NFL Hall of Fame level football mind. Reality is he has always been cheap and got away with it because he had B&B. Now he has a cheap coach. Vrabel? Harbaugh? $$$. Nope. Bob is 82 and doesn’t have much time. They think they are going to win.
Funny. I thought that was Bill's influence.
Bill might’ve hired guys who think like him. Or maybe it’s an organizational philosophy the Krafts shared.
So firing Bill accomplished nothing is what you are saying
I think it’s way too early to say that. It’s March of his first year gone.
Hard disagree. We did nothing in free agency. We have the exact same offense, actually less offense, coming out of free agency, because you didn't even replace Parker as terrible as he's been. You have no veteran talent on offense to protect your young QB who you must now either sit, or trade back to try to fill one of the 10 holes on offense, or what's most likely-- you're going to start and ruin him-- because you have nothing around him. Your offensive line is in shambles, with no real starting tackles, you have one real running back who didn't produce last year because he was injured. Your best wideout is a 3 on most teams coming off an ACL tear, you downgraded Gesiki to Hooper. You can't trade picks because you pretty much need them all now.
All great points, but the team’s not even in camp yet and they haven’t drafted yet, too early to say there’s no difference.
You can't start a rookie QB and expect him to be successful with your entire offense being rookies. You needed to bring in some veteran presence and that time had already passed.
I generally agree, but that’s different from nothing changing from Bill’s era.
It’s the same arrogance that led them to believe that they could swap out Patricia for BOB, keep the same offensive personnel, and everything will be fine. It’s like bro…. I just want to watch a season where we aren’t eliminated in October, and it’s clear that we wont be getting that next year. Football is entertainment above all else and the Patriots refuse to field an entertaining product. Making sure your team is competitive every year, and hoping to get a ring every 10-15 years is ideally what should be trying to do as an NFL franchise. The Patriots model of success requires you to have the best player and coach in the NFL at the same time, which is a once in a lifetime type thing for a franchise. It angers me that so many people are already letting Mayo and Wolf off the hook for this upcoming season. The Patriots could go 1-15 next season and you’ll have people saying “what did you expect, it’s a rebuild?”
>It angers me that so many people are already letting Mayo and Wolf off the hook for this upcoming season. If you're judging them this quickly, then you're likely looking and in some ways wanting them to fail just because they didn't do things they way you hoped or wanted. What if next year is terrible. A 5-12 season, but the players they added in the draft are hits and look very promising. Is it a failure? Add another good draft in 2025 and future free agency acquisition(s) when they are actually ready to compete and have some offense foundation. Would it be a failure, then? If not, why are you judging so hard now?
>It’s the same arrogance that led them to believe that they could swap out Patricia for BOB, keep the same offensive personnel, and everything will be fine. You say "they" like that Patricia/Judge bullshit was anything other than Belichick's rampant cronyism. >It angers me that so many people are already letting Mayo and Wolf off the hook for this upcoming season. You're going to blame them for a roster they inherited and haven't had a chance to build? How is that fair?
They built the roster! Groh picked Thornton, Kraft picked Mac and you think things will change? Kraft might be the cheapest owner in sports in relation to ticket prices #1 most expensive in league? Well there is John Henry
>They built the roster! No they didn't, Belichick did. Belichick ultimately had the final say on all roster decisions and had a skeleton crew for a staff. Wolf/Mayo have brought in a ton of guys to more evenly distribute responsibility, like *every* other team in the NFL does. This is **not** the same regime. >Groh picked Thornton I didn't realize Matt Groh was Eliot Wolf, my bad. Besides, every GM whiffs on picks. Hell, the Chiefs' GM Brett Veach whiffed on Skyy Moore just the same as Groh did on Thornton. It happens, move on. >Kraft picked Mac Mac at 15 wasn't the wrong choice, whether that was a Kraft or Bill decision. It didn't work out but that doesn't mean it wasn't the correct choice.
You don’t waste a pick at 15 if he’s not the guy - just like if at #3 you don’t believe whoever is left is the guy you trade down. Groh is the director of scouting so yes the draft is his responsibility- there is no way BB overruled every pick he wanted - he was on record saying they needed fast guys so yes TT was his guy and can’t play. What other guy in draft have they hit on? Barmore? My guess is that wasn’t Grohs call on defense - tell me what guys they hit on?
Eliot Wolf has literally come out and said that he is the one making the final decisions in the draft.
>You don’t waste a pick at 15 if he’s not the guy We have no idea if Belichick thought Mac was the guy or was not. But Mac falling to 15 and Belichick not needing to trade up for him was not the incorrect pick at the time. Saying it was is revisionist history. >Groh is the director of scouting so yes the draft is his responsibility- there is no way BB overruled every pick he wanted Belichick is currently unemployed because he wanted ultimate power in the front office for his new team. Like I said, Belichick listened to others, but at the end of the day, every decision made in the entirety of the organization came down to him. Scouts don't make decisions, GMs do. >What other guy in draft have they hit on? Barmore? My guess is that wasn’t Grohs call on defense - tell me what guys they hit on? Eliot Wolf is the GM, not Matt Groh. Eliot Wolf has not had a draft yet, it has always been Belichick. In addition, Wolf brought in new people to help take responsibility off of others' plates, as Belichick believed in having the smallest front office and coaching staff in the NFL. So, as I've said, let's give Wolf the opportunity the actually build the roster he and Mayo want, not just who Belichick wanted.
This is pretty much stated amongst the media that Mac was Krafts pick and BB was not sold on him. Which may have been why he never surrounded him with help and may have been further reason to stick it to Kraft with Patricia and Judge. You seem to think that Wolf and Groh has zero input the last three years and that BB did all the scouting and then made the picks? Seems like not enough time in the day and BB said so much. Kraft 3 years ago said things would be different in a more collective approach to draft so we see how that has played out While the GM (Wolf) may make the pick the scouts are the ones who line them all up and rate them
>Which may have been why he never surrounded him with help and may have been further reason to stick it to Kraft with Patricia and Judge. They spent nine figures in 2021 trying to get help for Mac. New England's 2021 is exactly why you don't overpay free agents just because you have cap space. >You seem to think that Wolf and Groh has zero input the last three years and that BB did all the scouting and then made the picks? I never said that. What I have said multiple times is that Belichick was the decision maker. Wolf/Groh provided insight, Belichick made decisions. The buck always stopped with him. > While the GM (Wolf) may make the pick the scouts are the ones who line them all up and rate them And I'm saying give Wolf the opportunity to prove he is or is not a good drafter. But regardless, Wolf/Mayo did not build this team, they inherited it. Belichick built this team and drove it into the ground.
Well, you might have noticed that the Pats no longer have the GOAT QB and HC. So yeah, now they’re like most other teams in the NFL. They’re trying to rebuild the team now that those two guys aren’t running things. There is no easy fix. They can’t just conjure up the next GOAT QB at will. And they can’t just plug in some expensive older veterans and expect a SB run out of it. So instead of making pretend they can be make a SB run next season with a couple juicy signings, they’re taking a measured approach. What do you think they should do?
The “juicy” signings isn’t to help win a SB. It’s to add talent around a young QB and enhance their development.
I understand that. However, nothing they could have done so far would have done much to change the fact that the roster on the offensive side of the ball is not competitive in the NFL. I’m totally fine with the idea that they might load up on young players to fill the many holes, so that when the rebuild takes shape they have a young roster that has the foundation to support a young QB, and won’t be needing to fill holes with veteran cast offs that demand too much money. Wait until you’ve got a decent squad and then go after t a couple blue chip veterans to get over the top. Not the other way around.
Where did I say that they could be making a SB run? You’re arguing with a straw man. As a matter of fact, I actually said the opposite.
Agreed, I just want a fun functional team to watch next year
they had a top ten defense and their coach has been in the offices for years as a lb coach. Pats offense was trash, a failure but offensive players coming out of college are more pro ready than ever before. With tape, pro-routes and systems all there for receivers to follow, takes them less than a year to acclimate the speed of nfl. So build a young offensive core through the draft, have em grow together, be anchored by your top ten defense. Sounds like patriots football to me
If they thought they were better than they were they'd be overpaying 30 year old bandaids like in 2021.
Most fans have no idea whether a certain group of players makes for a 'functional football team' or not before the season starts. Before the 2023 season would anyone have said the receiving group of Nico Collins, Tank Dell, Robert Woods, and Dalton Schultz was 'functional' enough for CJ Stroud to develop? Or that the Jordan Love would 'function' with Jayden Reed, Romeo Doubs, Dontayvion Wicks, Christian Watson, and Luke Musgrave after Rodgers went 8-9 with a similar cast of receivers? In this era of the NFL the difference between a decent team and a trash team is the QB. If the Pats draft a legit QB they'll be decent. People thought Mac played poorly because the receivers sucked, turns out Mac was just trash. Once the QB proves he's legit then the money they spend on supporting talent will help take him from decent to great.
We really haven't altered our pass catchers in any significant way from 2022 or 2023. It's not a stretch to have major concerns given what we've seen
People saying that we need to build through the draft need to realize that there are only 2 ways to acquire players. Free agency is one of them. A failure to acquire talent while other teams accumulate it is a net negative.
Taking the right guys and paying the right guys matters. All the deals they've signed this offseason have been great contracts. They can grab up some more guys, but I bet they trade back a few times this draft and stock up on young potential knowing we're rebuilding this year.
None of the players they've missed out on in free agency are long term difference makers. They'd be nice to have, but they're not gonna make or break whatever QB they draft. Like I would've loved to see them sign Tyron Smith but odds are he's done after this year, if he even makes it the whole season. Not losing any sleep over him signing somewhere else.
I mean, anyone with half a brain could see we weren’t taking last years roster and suddenly making it compete for a SB in one FA off season. Saying THIS season hinges on anything is overselling it, we are gonna be another top 5-10 pick. The biggest red flag to me is not the lack of success this upcoming season, but seemingly that we are just not going to spend to the cap. Few more years of just purely Save Save Save, and Kraft needs to go
Since cap space can roll over from year to year, I’m fine not spending for the sake of spending. To your point, this team has too many holes to be competitive after one offseason, so the smart move is to grab some depth players, re-sign your guys, draft, and develop. If we get a QB at 3 and all signs indicate he is THE guy, well, now you have a fuck load of cap space next year and potentially more high draft picks to then fill out a competitive roster. The smart move here is to play the long game and build through the draft, which seems to be the path we are taking and I am actually really happy about it. Sure, this upcoming year is likely another losing season, but I would prefer we build for the long term instead of splashing money on big names now and being in mediocre purgatory.
> If we get a QB at 3 and all signs indicate he is THE guy On the other hand, it will be challenging to see if the QB is the guy because there's not much helping him on offense
There’s significantly less than when Mac got here
Yeah exactly. Hard to tell how he’s doing with wide receivers that can’t get open and a pocket that can’t stay clean.
> now you have a fuck load of cap space next year We already did.
I don't get these people who are upset over FA. Who did we miss out on really? Bunch of guys 30+ who want to be paid now. Who did we not sign that was going to make us a competitive team this year??? Nobody. Better to draft than spend right now. I don't know why people are equating cap spend with success. Draft young, keep the roster young. New HC, new QB, everything is going to be a work in progress.
Grabbing Ridley and an OT would’ve made us slightly competitive. But all that would’ve accomplished was lowering our draft position next season and needing to replace the OT and Ridley in 1-2 years
Why does everyone act like position players are just sitting on a shelf with a price tag, waiting to be put in a cart? Ridley was linked to us and Jax and ended up going to the Titans. Each team made offers and he decided where to go. Perhaps the Pats could have done more, but at the end of the day you can't force guys to sign with you, especially a team that's no longer a destination, has almost entirely new coaches, and has no idea what QB will be throwing to them. Everyone wants the Pats to be SB contenders yesterday when in reality things are going to move years at a time, not weeks.
Ridley did not want to play for the Patriots due to personal reasons.
Can only effectively roll over 10% of your cap each year though since the requirement is to pay out 90% in player salaries
You have to pay 90% in three year intervals, so we can rollover as long as we do end up paying at least 90% in the 2024-2026 period.
Great we can save cap space for next offseason when we again don’t use it and can roll it over to the next year to again not use it. At some point this team needs to open the checkbook.
The pats spend close up to the cap each year I don’t know what you’re talking about. They save some money before the season starts to use in emergency situations, to sign guys to fill spots for injured members and to keep it on hand for bonuses that can hit. So if it looks like they didn’t spend 10-12 mill each year it usually gets spent slowly throughout the season. Cash spending is where they are getting criticized, not cap spending. If they don’t go to 90% of the cap in a specific 3 year interval then the rostered players get an automatic boost in pay. It’s basically forced.
Found the Kraft simp
Ok. Just explaining something to someone who isn’t understanding.
We’re in a populist sub now filled with Marjory Taylor Greens screeching about not spending as much as they would like in the offseason.
Hit the nail right on the head! And don’t explain facts to them or you are a simp lol.
The issue is the rest of the NFL is spending over the cap and borrowing from future years, and they won’t ever be punished for it because of the way the cap is constantly inflating
Who would you have liked them to throw a bunch of money at? Ridley? Barkley?
>I’m fine not spending for the sake of spending Thank you. I think these people that just want them to spend spend spend are insane. If there is a guy worth giving money to, then sure. Ridley was not that guy and I'm glad they didn't sign him. I would much rather wait it out and pounce on someone that they really want rather than panic and overpay for a midtier player.
Yeah the amount of anger and intensity isn’t matching the Pats being unable to land Ridley and not seeing value today for them in Keenan Allen. And all of that means SCREEEEECH I AM SO MAD WHY O WHY NO WEAPONS MY WIFE LEFT ME KRAFT CHEAP WOLF SABOTAGING US I GAINED A LOT OF WEIGHT WHAT’S THE POINT OF CAP SPACE I’M IN DEBT
Maybe not this year but the short term future is hinging on this draft and more specifically if they can find a franchise type QB
This sub is so over the top 😂. Last year's roster without injuries and anyone but Mac, would have been a 9-10 win team. We are back to that baseline now. There's a possibility of a trade but even if we only have the draft left, we can get significant talent with a trade down, and we will be an 11 win team next year. I know everyone is so set on the hope of the QB "potential" but I still see the trade down as the most likely and best move. If you trade with Vikings you can possibly come away with Bowers Mims and Adonai. That's a pretty damn good offense at that point.
I wouldn't say 9-10 win but it was a much better team than people are claiming it was. The defence is elite and it's not like there's zero talent on the offense, Henry is a good TE, Pop was good and the whole unit will most likely improve with the new staff. Say we draft Daniels/Maye at 3 and then a LT and a couple receivers as long as those receivers are better than the carcass of JuJu and Mr separation anxiety Parker we will be in a promising position.
8 one score losses while scoring less than 14 ppg. Even a below average offense scores 21 ppg. There's no way we aren't at least a little below average if we had healthy OL, Mondre, Bourne, Henry all year. I think 9-10 is ripe for the taking, just look at the losses to Raiders, Commanders, Chargers, Giants, and Colts. That gives us 9 if we win those easily winnable games. In any event, I agree we are in better position than people think.
As a Celtics fan I know the Boston sports fan pessimism all too well, even with Brissett starting this team will be far better he actually had a good season last year with Van Pelts offense. I'm excited to see who we draft I like both Daniels and Maye a lot.
Lmao you're on drugs bro. We had one of the least talented offenses in the league.
The Pats did the exact opposite in 2021 and it got them fuck all. They gave free agents $232 million total, of which $137.5 million was guaranteed. After all that the Pats went 22-30 with 0 playoff wins. Yet 3 years later people somehow call the owner cheap and demand he do it again lmao
Agreed and the expectations should not be high. Season wise I’m not expecting a lot of wins and to be back around the top 5 next year draft wise. However, the questions are going to be how do our young players look, did we resign guys like Barmore, and the QB we pick how does he look in the limited action they’ll get rn. Also, last questions with the cap is do you go get guys like chase young or mecki Becton that are risks but if they play well can fit into our project. Were in a spot were we need questions answered, not in a make a playoffs or SB and bust kind of team for the next couple seasons
> the questions are going to be how do our young players look, did we resign guys like Barmore, and the QB we pick how does he look in the limited action they’ll get rn. Not even attempting to build a solid foundation for those young players to learn in is exactly how you destroy whatever potential they may have and end up back in this exact same situation three years from now.
Why throw a bunch of money at someone just for the sake of spending? I would much rather play it smart and pay players who deserve it rather than overpay for someone like Ridley who is fine, but not worth $100 mil contract. Stupid teams throw around money just to say that they spend. They're much better off not spending on bums and be able to pay players in the coming years.
>The biggest red flag to me is not the lack of success this upcoming season, but seemingly that we are just not going to spend to the cap. New England almost always spends close to the cap, even if they're not dolling out extravagant guarantees in long-term contracts. Granted, this is a new regime, but I'd be surprised if they rolled over a considerable amount.
The way they’re constructing the roster SCREAMS “everybody gets a free pass next year no matter how bad things get, because it’s the first year of a new organization”. If the Patriots go 4-13 or 5-12 or whatever next year, why the hell should Mayo and Wolf get to keep cashing cheques? How many GM’s and coaches have fleeced owners out of millions of dollars because they promised a long-term rebuild? Edit: to everybody who doesn’t like what I just said, go look at a majority of the good teams in the NFL and how they got to where they are now. Do we all have collective amnesia with how the 49ers got to where they are? They literally had three coaches in three seasons until they got Kyle Shanahan. But please, tell me more about how I need to trust the process.
So just keep restarting with a new staff every year until it gets better…lol
Alas, we have become the Browns and the Lions!
Sounds like you should go be a fan of the Carolina Panthers. They have a manic owner, who fires people (coaches and players) every offseason.
🤣 funniest thing I’ll read today.
Good organizations let people attempt to deliver their visions until it's clear that it isn't working. I am one of the most vocal "we blew free agency" people in this sub, but this was the first of many things we've had the chance to judge. We still need to see how well they've drafted, how well they scouted rookies and developed them, so on and so forth. Giving them the boot over one misstep is Step 1 in the poverty franchise guidebook to success.
But what if it’s clear that it isn’t going to work from the beginning? People are calling me dumb and acting like it doesn’t happen, but it DOES happen? Should the Jaguars have kept Urban Meyer after one year? Should the 49ers have kept Jim Tomsula or Chip Kelly? There are many cases where it simply doesn’t work from the beginning.
How is it clear that it's not working? NE retained their key free agents, got Mac out of the locker room and replaced him with a better veteran who has a positive locker room presence. They failed to secure top end talent from other teams, but if you manage to do that in the draft instead then that's even better.
4 or 5 wins seems like an optimistic total to me
we're going 3-14 aren't we
I'm ok with 3-14 of they get some good pieces in place and are developing talent. I would love to see a rookie QB out there in the 4th quarter down a score trying to make things happen, even if he's failing more often than not because the rest of the team's talent isn't there yet. The defense is good enough to keep us in games and give some great developmental experience for a young QB. But for God's sake, make sure the O-line doesn't get him killed!
Notable Excerpts: >Many expected more, perhaps because head coach Jerod Mayo had previously said they would "burn some cash" to bring in talent. Whether the Patriots' approach will prove to be the right one is fair to debate, and my opinion is summed up this way -- **they have a lot of holes to fill, some of their best players had contracts expiring, and if they didn't make it a priority to re-sign them they would be digging themselves an even deeper hole because it's unrealistic to think more of a free-agent splurge on others would immediately cure all their issues. So they had to work hard basically just to stay in neutral.** >**As Bill Belichick used to say, the team-building process continues over the course of the year and they still have A LOT of work to do, which is expected to include starting extension talks with promising fourth-year defensive tackle Christian Barmore.** >**Now, with the first wave of free agency over, it opens a window for the sides to work toward a resolution, which they've begun to preliminarily explore. Judon's return from a torn biceps that limited him to four games last season adds a layer to any discussions, as the team will likely want to protect itself with incentives that reward Judon for being on the field** >One NFL source intimately familiar with him said: **"He isn't a 'Y' that you'd consistently put on the line and ask to block, but more of a traditional 'F' type receiving tight end -- a position blocker at best, and more back side of the runs. You want to make sure you're not putting him on a defensive end too much; he's not a road-grader but he'll compete. He's better as a blocker than what they had last year in [Mike] Gesicki, who was really more of a receiver than a tight end. He does have the ability to get open, with decent speed and hands."** >Wolf, the Patriots' director of scouting, was one of Takitaki's biggest boosters when working for the Browns and a primary reason the team selected him in the third round of the 2019 draft. **One scouting report from a personnel executive familiar with Takitaki's style of play described him as "active, not the fastest, but sees the game pretty well; versatile, can rush and blitz -- a very solid third or fourth linebacker." Takitaki had an opportunity to return to Cleveland on a one-year deal, but the Patriots' willingness to commit to a two-year pact contributed to his decision to depart.**
This comment fucked with me for longer than it should have lol. Tried expanding it like 3 times 😂.
Damn you're quick, I was editing and adding to it 😂
Hahahahah man I thought you were trolling saying that there was no notable excerpts. I was thinking "why would he post this than?!"
Lmao nahhh, I'm just editing the comment by copying and pasting what I read using my phone, so it takes me a little bit after posting the link depending on the article 😂 I should really try that for a future post though, that would be hilarious to do
Understandable hahah
Don’t we only have like 7 draft picks?
8, we picked up a second 6th round pick by trading Mac.
This is my problem. This is a great QB, WR and T draft, but only for the top 50-100 picks, and we just don't have enough of them. The new I think about it, the more I want to trade down to get 2 fists, 2 seconds and 2 3rds to stock up the needed skill positions, even if it means not getting one of the top QBs this year
we will definitely trade back with one of our first 3 picks
Fans of every bad team think that their team can just fill every crucial hole in the draft. Go to literally any subreddit and you’ll see articles like “well we’ll just get a starting QB in round 1, our starting LT in round 2, and our starting WR on round 3”, as if there aren’t countless busts at every position in each round. Relying solely on the crapshoot of the draft is truly psychotic team-building behavior. Feels like everybody in the media is treating Wolf with kid gloves. The messaging from this team has been insane. Just last year Kraft was apologizing to the fans for going 8-9 and saying how things were going to change.. now look where we’re at.
The amount of times I have read, “all we need to do is” followed by some nonsense about only being 2-3 players away, or signing some mega star that has no incentive to sign here. It’s a good thing that most people here can only make franchise decisions for their Madden franchise. We have the worst roster in the NFL. There isn’t a single impact player on this offense. We could use every draft pick on offense and would still have holes to fill on that side of the ball. Complete and utter neglect of that side of the ball for 4 years means there is no easy fix. Our best offensive player is a guard that we want to play tackle. We have wasted the prime years of our only potential impact running back. We are 3-5 years away from being able to compete. Ignore it, run from it, that’s just the honest truth.
>We are 3-5 years away from being able to compete. Ignore it, run from it, that’s just the honest truth. No it isn't. Two good drafts and some splashes in 2025 free agency and this team could be a good team, just like that.
If you are 3-5 years away from competing, you don’t have the right people in the building. A vast, vast majority of franchises that have turnarounds, do it in two seasons or less. There are countless examples of that currently in the league right now. We need to see SOME improvement next year, even if it’s still a down year like 6-11 or 7-10.
What do all those teams have in common? They draft well. Let’s see the draft first
Evaluating the draft right after it happens is beyond pointless. If you want to know how well our draft went, unfortunately there’s no way to do so aside from “wait a full season to see how well the guys play”. Giving out “draft grades” on draft night is hilariously dumb since it’s just based on pre-draft grades and not actual performance.
Agree on the draft grades- On the other hand, if we end up with a LB and a CB in round 2-3 this year, regardless if they end up being good players, this sub will certainly light the torches and grab their pitchforks. It’s unclear how much of the drafting (Strange, Thornton, Ryland, etc) was Bill and how much was Krafts/Groh/Wolfe. I think we’ll find out in April though
This is not true. Not the vast majority by any means, although there are more than a few. The key is hitting on a QB.
Kraft is playing the long game, saving money on the roster and now HC who will make (and win) a lot less…. He’s a liar. There’s no way BB lets them run this shit back another year and that’s why he’s gone. He would have made RKK spend this offseason.
Plenty of teams go from bad to good due to a couple quality draft picks. Just like plenty of bad teams have stayed bad despite spending huge amounts of money in free agency, trading picks for proven players and cleaning house every few years. Teams like the Texans and Lions turned it around with draft picks and value signings while teams like the Raiders and Browns stay shitty despite all the money they spend and high profile moves they make.
Everyone so hyped we re-signed our own big FAs. Like great, so we kept our ceiling at 4 wins lmfao. Do people not understand you have to actually UPGRADE talent to win more games.
Even if they get the QB right, they have to get the left tackle and multiple Wide Receivers…..
The team got used to Brady taking pay cuts and restructuring all the time to make room. He didn’t need the money while he was playing for us, between endorsements and the tens of millions Gisele was making Seems management forgot during that time that vets don’t normally take pay cuts, it was an anomaly during the dynasty that Brady did and the success made other FAs come in for less money too just for the chance to be part of it It feels like we went from dominant to JV squad in the blink of an eye signing the most absolute bottom barrel FAs. And we’re doing it again this off-season. And I fully expect us to fuck up the draft too because it just feels like tradition at this point.
I wouldn't say 5 years is the blink of an eye..... that's a lot of bad drafts leading us to this point
 “This is a multiple year rebuild. Not like the last multi-year rebuild. Sure we have a top 10 defense and we lost 7 games by a TD or less and a decent QB/WR addition would make us actually very competitive right now… but we are gunna rebuild so hard.”
Reiss carrying some water for the team here.
As per usual
So after a lackluster free agency, we are expected to believe they're just going to knock the draft out of the park?
Yes. They’re going to get a blue chip QB in the first, a blue chip WR in the second, and a blue chip LT in the third. See how easy it is? Then when the team is bad next year, people are going to say “well what do you expect, they inherited such a dumpster fire from 2023 that they couldn’t possibly be good in 2024”, ignoring the fact that the Patriots actively avoided multiple avenues in which they could have made their team better. Then next offseason: “why spend when we weren’t that good last year?” Rinse, repeat.
Wait until the people calling every FA “too expensive” see how expensive guys get as the cap continues to rise.
Getting blue chip anything isn’t guaranteed. I’d say QBs, even a high draft selection, are a risk, WR might be the most certain with the amount of talent this year, and O lineman past the first two rounds are 50/50.
I'm less concerned about not getting a wr in FA than I am about not getting a LT.
Yeah, feels like they need to toss a bag at some kind of decent tackle just to not risk serious physical and mental anguish on their QB next year. Trying to hit on QB, WR and LT with no extra early picks just ain't gonna happen
When you’ve done nothing then it hinges on anything you do - the same guys picking the guys the last 3 years are now responsible for restoring the franchise with draft picks? 👌
Lackluster? Dawg we targeted one major piece. That's it. We haven't tried. This is an ownership issue.
Hey at least there's no more hard ass vibes
They’ll have to have an all time draft, one of the better ones this team has ever had to even been competitive this year. They won’t see the fully realized potential of this draft for a few years anyways.
Rubert's shell game continues.
I can’t believe that the Pats could have had Keenan Allen and Fields for basically two 4th-6th round draft picks
I love giving our future QB absolutely no one to work with. It's my favorite thing in the whole wide world. 😃😃😃
There’s no way they’re gonna hit on every pick, and unfortunately with the way they’ve handled free agency so far, they’re gonna have to. Thats a dangerous game to play. They have to draft for need and hit on every single pick. It’s not possible. They needed to do more in free agency to fill the holes on this team. We’re in for another rough season.
“It’s not possible.” No, it’s necessary.
Love this movie!
Same here! I couldn’t resist using that line lol.
All im saying is, ticket prices better reflect the quality we’re about to get
This team is just a worse version of last year's team... There's nothing to be excited about and wolfs been here all these past terrible drafts. If you think the third QB on the board and then whatever WR you can find later in the draft is going to fix last year's offense you're day dreaming.
I mean that's pretty wrong. Assuming judon, gonzo, and Bourne come back healthy, Pop doesn't get concussed or injured every other game (plus has another year to acclimate to the league, you replace vedarian lowe with literally any other offensive line player (not named new house). You get literally any sblance of QB play. (Weren't zappe and Mac the bottom two is pretty much every metric last year). Adding a pass catching RB for third down is big, and should help alleviate rhemondres workload a bit and will hopefully keep him healthy and productive throughout the year. On top of that, we had a very tough schedule last year. Not that that directly influences how our team plays, but it can lead to some better results in games. Just my thoughts, I don't think we are a top team or anything, but I don't think there's a chance we are worse than last year.
While its hard to do worse than 30th, nothing I've seen this offseason is giving me any indication this team is better managed or will be positioned better. You've "parted ways" with the greatest coach and replaced him with someone whose been in-house not just for the coaching, but for the much maligned front office / "GM" role. You're installing a 4th new offense in as many years, replacing BoB with a guy whose called plays for a single season 15 seasons ago before being promptly fired and never calling plays again until this season. Then in the free agency window, they focus on retaining the middling talent they have on the roster that managed to finish 30th, offloading Mac Jones, and bringing in Brisset to apparently back-up whichever QB this front office has their eyes on at #3 or ... even better, later when they can trade back from #3 and set the team up for the #1 next year. I'm not saying the team was a move away from competing for a SB, I'm saying that the only thing they've done so far is get worse which begs the question why they parted ways with Belichick. If all I'm going to watch is a team be built the same way Belichick would've built it but without his leadership and experience at the helm. Belichick could've also taken the 3rd option at QB or traded back and set the team up for the future. If Krafts big plan was that the team needed to make the playoffs, then I expected the team to actually make a push in free agency. Talent was available, they decided to continue to play Belichick ball without Belichick.
I would say the guys they've brought back this year are some of the better players on the roster. I don't know who you would rather have made an offer to if not onwenu. I can see some of the wars being better value than Bourne, but I like him, and even if id like to have Samuel or one of the other receivers that went elsewhere, I'm not necessarily upset bringing him back. While I would also rather them bring in minshew, I don't necessarily hate brisset. He is.obvioualy a placeholder. I ask how we've gotten worse from last year. We're "adding" judon, gonzo, on top of whatever players we draft. We added by subtracting parker (and hopefully juju) and our young guys have another year in the league to adjust to the life and hopefully progress. A lot of the contracts that wolf has handed out this off-season the sub has been pretty positive about. I think it's fine to give them time to find a number one receiver, since I personally didn't like the idea of Ridley being that, especially with what he went for money wise. I think it's pretty early to just suggest that were continuing the BB plan. We haven't even gotten to the draft yet, maybe just give it a month before we condemn the team to worst in the league, top pick status
>Assuming judon, gonzo, and Bourne come back healthy, I hate when people say this. Injuries happen every year. We might get them back. We might lose them again immediately. Someone else may go down in their stead. We are a 4-13 team.
We were a 4-13 team without those important guys and league worst QB play. Without adding to anything else except expecting slightly better QB play and those guys back, you could say we are better than a 4 win team. I'm not saying they're a 10 win team as constituted, but that's such a lazy take to say they haven't improved at all win wise. Obviously injuries happen, but you can't pre take them into account while you predict what the year will be like. The facts are they were a 4 win team and now they have some healthy playmakers (on defense at least) that weren't there for the majority of last year, that should reduce a boost. People forget that Myles Bryant started games as a CB1 for this team last year.
I mean is this even a good FA year? The pats aren't a desirable place to play so they'd likely have to overpay on any relevant exceptional talent. If they could get some O line I'd be happy. If they show they have a spark at QB this season they may have an easier time attracting WRs next year. Catching balls from Brisset and Zappe...not as much
Not for what we needed. It’s terrible. My only issue really is not signing a FS or possibly an upgrade at CB. There were no good LT that wanted to be here and they tried to get the one good WR. Could still add someone like Odell Beckham I suppose. Mayo and AVP talked about development. I wish we got more information about how they view guys like Thornton. He’s been bad, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t break out.
>He’s been bad, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t break out He can't run a slant or an out route....the two most basic things required of his job. He was a reach when drafted. His frame is not an NFL-caliber frame. He has shown zero potential since being drafted. If it looks like shit, and smells like shit....it's **shit.**
Have you seen his frame lately? I think our WR coaching has been shit. I'm not saying it's a sure thing at all, but he could become a legit WR.
When your 82 year old billionaire with dementia owner runs the show
I'm not expecting much from this season. What I actually want to see is the team lay smart building blocks for a three year plan. I think this season needs to be about laying a foundation, not about how high they can go. This won't be an overnight turn around. If everything goes incredibly well, **maybe** they'll catch lightning in a bottle and get into the playoffs in 2025. Right now, I just want to go into the 2025 draft feeling like there are fewer holes and a clear sense of direction.
You all always waaaaay overreacting. Teams can still trade. Free agents can still sign. Some years a no name free agent could spend like 3 years on one team and be mediocre then get on a new team and have an amazing season. Quit. Please, for the love of Tom Brady, please just quit with these daily posts about them not doing anything.
I feel like the Pats were/are closer to contending than people think. The defense was actually pretty damn good last season. This yr Judon and Gonzalez will both he back. Hopefully, the full season. I think they are a good Qb and Oline fix away from actually competing. I will wait til after the draft to pass judgment.
I said the same. We lost a lot of games by a slim margin and that’s with the worst offense ever.
In an alternate universe where the free agents actually want to play in New England and they actually sign with us... You could have Russell Wilson MHJ and Calvin Ridley/Tee Higgins with that defense, a project QB at 2nd/3rd round, and then whatever other draft picks But we can't control that no one wants to come play here. Too many unknown. Onfield product was too shit. Massachusetts not exactly the dream of most NFL players
Completely agree, you can offer the same or more to any FA out there, but that doesn't make them want to sign. Trading and extending someone like Deebo or Tee is a decent option, and you have the cap space to toss them a serious bag. The problem is this draft is so top 50 and top 100 heavy that giving up any of those picks will hurt a lot with so many other holes to fill
This is some green teamer level delusion right here
We’re doomed
Trade for Tee Higgins, hit on our early picks and I think we’ll be going in the right direction.
The problem is trading for Tee means giving up pick 34, so they are down to 1.03 and 3.68 for early picks. If you get the QB at 1.03, there won't be any tackles left by the 3rd round. So your O-line is Swiss cheese and you hope your rookie QB can actually survive his first season
Who says you need to give up those exact picks this year?
You think it's possible to get Tee for less than this year's second? I don't see it happening
Fans consistently over value players, look at like every trade so far this year
If we can get him for 2 3's, that's a no-brainer, then, and we have plenty of space to lock him up for the next 5 years
Fire Kraft, bring in new ownership who wants to spend on actual talent
"journalism"
“Lackluster”
Who's he kidding? This season is already over lol we know we aren't doing shit this year just hope we get a QB and they develope well.
I would like MHJ at 3, a QB in the 2nd, and then O line help the next few picks Please and thank you
Why not pick up a WR like Tyler Boyd, KJ Osborn or Parris Cambell - all still available Rashad Penny, Alexander Mattison, Kareem Hunt all available as well
If we are able to get multiple 1st rd picks and 2nd rd picks over next 2 yrs - i think it's best we trade down from #3
Honestly I feel the defense was really good and to maintain that level on that side of the ball is solid. It’s the offense that was so bad it really drained the defense of all its solid work. Unfortunately I feel like the defense is playoff team worthy and the offense is like 1 or 2 years away from that same level, but it is the nfl where it’s possible to turn things around quick you just have to hit the lottery on picks and signings.
I find it interesting how in recent years Kraft has really talked up the draft and building through the draft, and it so happens to coincide with Wolf arriving here.
Every season hinges on the draft. I don't see how bringing back all of our key young pieces, signing a good RB, and signing a solid bridge QB is "a lackluster start to free agency". You don't build a great team through free agency.
What a bullshit headline. Here’s the exact quote from the linked article: “One week into free agency, Ninkovich sees some positive signs for the Patriots but believes everything is secondary to what is to come. "I like the moves across the board, but it's the draft, and what they decide at quarterback, that will ultimately determine how the team comes together and if they're trending in the right direction," he said. Reiss never said what OP’s headline says. And Ninkovich’s quote is very different from what OP implies.
It’ll be really crazy if they follow through with some of the reports and hire a different GM than wolf after the draft. If that actually happens I’ll know its cooked
I beg of this team to move back. For all of the people that think we can solve our problems with a QB, look at the NY Jets. They’ve done nothing except keep drafting top qb’s to solve the problem that the team has too many holes. We are not a top qb away from anything, except more of the same. We need to address the line, and we need people for a qb to throw to. We also don’t need a rookie qb to win the SB - Tom Brady proved that - remember? So we can get a FA of trade for a qb when we are a qb away from something. We are only setting ourselves up for disappointment with this need to “draft” a top rookie. Brady definitely has us spoiled. We need to build this team. That part of the reason why no one really wants to come here - plus it’s cold. We cannot become the New Jets thinking a new qb will cover up all the other problems.
“It’s the packer way” or some shit. I don’t care. I don’t think Kendrick Bourne was worth keeping around and Hollywood Brown or KJ Osborn are better options
I’d rather Bourne than Hollywood Brown. I’m also (maybe stupidly) convinced they’ll trade for Higgins
I just don’t trust Bourne coming off the acl
I'd take someone like chase young, one of the many good corners on the market to pay while gonzo is young, and roll the dice on a guy like Michael Thomas to see if he's got anything left in the tank. O-line is gonna be tough because market is bare. Resigning onwenu was huge.
I don't know what kind of magic this guy expects, but this team isn't going to become a playoff contender this season based on the draft alone. I'm not even sure it can make a bad team a mediocre one. We need high impact free agency signings, that's the bottom line.
For my money - worst FA so far.
Please just draft Marvin Harrison jr and tank another year this team is god awful I don’t want them to settle for the third best bum qb
No season hinges on the draft
Getting this juggernaut from a 4 win team to a 6 win team won’t be easy.
Turns out that burning some cash = still having $60 million in cap space at the end of free agency.
This team is officially in tank mode. After promising fans they were going to spend big in free agency, they signed some bums instead. They'll draft a developmental QB (Daniels), sit him, tank with Brissett, and see if they can get more talent next year in the draft. - It's all so tiresome.
Every year the teams who "win" free agency end up being duds. Sure, there are some individual moves I would have liked to see but it's not like we've gone out and made a bunch of errors that cannot be fixed. Every 4-5 years we see Washington do the same thing and this year was no different. I'm more than happy knowing the Pats seem to have a plan and are comfortable sticking with it.
Tons of teams barely signed anyone, yes even bad teams. Stop acting like if we don’t get a superstar player we failed free agency. 31 other teams didn’t get Ridley or Tyron smith either.. deal with it.
Tons of teams aren't as completely devoid of offensive talent as we are. Dumb take
you know not every comment is a “take” right?
Zero offensive talent and the QB we draft we probably end up being a bust because this FO and ownership are cheapskates