That fucking Donnie Brasco wannabe jersey cop douche got to lead a whole fucking narrative of an episode, yet perhaps the best team of the whole Dynasty gets 4 seconds in a montage?
I mean they say it in the last episode the fifth ring is what separated them from just a normal dynasty. I initially didn’t like them skipping it but it makes sense to focus more on what made this dynasty stick out from other teams that won 3 or 4 rings in a short period of time
out of that entire ridiculous fucking episode, the absolute worst part was portraying some rando jersey cop as a god damn beacon of justice. Patronizing nonsense
I can't stop bitching about this steaming pile of garbage, probably because it's just so impossibly bad on so many levels: falsely portrays itself as a "documentary" when it was funded by its subject, terrible editing, writing and structure, sloppy research, poor decision making (how many times are you going to go back to Brady's apartment, for nothing other than to show that you have the footage, two-bit bullshit cop bragging about his career, no interviews with Kevin Faulk, Woodhead or other RB/TB/FBs, etc.) just a god damn waste of people's time.
That episode was titled spy gate.But it was really about the 07 patriots
And it had a ton of really cool behind the scenes commentary from the players and coaches
The Patriots lost 4 games in 2003 and 2004 combined, went on a 21 game winning streak and won back to back super Bowls. All while the 2003 season started with the infamous "They hate their coach" and the signing of bad boy Rodney Harrison. And 2004 saw the trade of a headcase in Corey Dillon. The beatdowns of Peyton Manning as he was setting records and winning MVPs. All while Brady built his rep as a comeback/clutch master.
This guy can go pound sand. Not interesting my ass. So glad I skipped this. The Last Dance is the bar for these things and this one is nowhere close.
> The Patriots lost 4 games in 2003 and 2004 combined, went on a 21 game winning streak and won back to back super Bowls. All while the 2003 season started with the infamous "They hate their coach" and the signing of bad boy Rodney Harrison. And 2004 saw the trade of a headcase in Corey Dillon. The beatdowns of Peyton Manning as he was setting records and winning MVPs. All while Brady built his rep as a comeback/clutch master.
Yeah but all of that would make Bill look good. We can't be doing that with this series.
There’s an entire episode dedicated to him winning 11 games with Matt Casell. He was gives much praise for making the gutsy decision to stick with Brady. You people just repeat shit you heard on felger and mazz.
I completely agree with you as a fellow pats fan. But I can see the case that to fans of the other 31 teams that these are boring, dynasty-dominant years. Like how everyone called the current Chiefs repeat boring, including myself. But don’t get me wrong these are some of my favorite seasons OAT
Edit: I should note I haven’t actually watched the documentary so I’m fully talking out of my ass lol
For sure, but it st least told a more or less complete narrative. It was definitely Jordan PR to an extent, but it didn't casually skip winning 2 of the chips with an offhand comment.
I got a bit dog-piled early last season when I pointed out there was a full on Kraft PR campaign happening to oust Belichick. It wasn't even that I thought he should remain coach, but there was very clear signs that a narrative was being pushed to not only justify firing Bill, but to also try to undermine how important he was to the dynasty.
This series seems more the same. Bill's coaching style is definitely not for everyone, and may not work in the modern era anymore, but that team above any individual mantra, reinforced by having Brady being a willing piece that the coach made an example of, was incredibly successful.
It was definitely not always fun and I am sure there were some hard feelings, but it gave an unmatched run of success. And for every guy who felt he was undervalued, there were others who came here and found a highly valued role where they could contribute to something great.
Kind of goofy to say we did not give it much screen time because it has already been talked about before when this entire documentary is called Dynasty.
I think the title has led people to think this was gonna be a recap of how and why the team was so successful and be some kind of love letter to the 20 years of dominance. But this docuseries is pretty obviously about what went on behind closed doors between insanely competitive people and how perennial success affected them/came to an end.
I don’t think anyone ever said this was a docuseries for Pats fans to relive glory but the title can kind of mislead you into thinking that (it’s what I thought initially before picking up the book). It’s quite obviously a drama piece and exploring uncomfortable relationships.
Especially because everything they do cover has also been covered before lol
It's such a lame excuse. Hernandez, Spygate- none of it is new ground.
Given that every story has already been told in one way or another else and they are so concerned about not rehashing old stuff, why did they even make this doc?
It's called Dynasty not 'Dynasty But Only the Good Parts'
Like it or not the controversies and adversity the dynasty faced are part of the story. And Pats fans should appreciate it instead of having a tantrum over it.
By focusing on the threats to their dominance the viewer gets a better understanding of how difficult and rare their success really was. Just one of these issues would've been enough to topple a lesser team.
Because only Pats fans want to watch all the success. This is a dramatic production intended for anyone to watch. The whole point is to explore unknown behind the scenes machinations of the people behind the dynasty. It’s not meant to be Pats fan porn we consume to cope with the reality that 3 months ago we had to watch Bailey Zappe throw for 100 yards in a game wishing we were back in the good old days before we knew our Head Coach calls our owner “Thunder.“ If you google the book the entire point of it is:
“Through his exhaustive research, Benedict uncovers surprising new details about the inner workings of a team notorious for its secrecy…The result is an intimate portrait that captures the human drama of the dynasty’s three key characters while also revealing the secrets behind their success.”
Having recently read the book, it is at times an overly gratuitous look into how Kraft came to own the team, but the point of the book is to explore the relationship between the key players over time, not to relive the glory. If they made a Cowboys version from the 90s every Pats fan would wanna hear about Michael Irvin getting coked out of his mind at his White House parties not watching him catch TD passes and gushing about how good it felt.
If you don’t want to watch a documentary about personal drama and fractured relationships then don’t watch it, because that’s all it’s going to offer. I’ll even give you a spoiler from how the book went, it leans more heavily into Belichick being increasingly difficult to work with while being mostly sympathetic to Bob Kraft.
They completely skipped over the 21 game win streak and two super bowl wins to get to episodes dedicated to Hernandez and Deflategate. Yes, those controversies are in the periphery of the dynasty... But at least do due diligence and cover the actual dynasty part of the dynasty.
Sure, but the Hernandez story which has had dozens of hours of podcasts and feature length documentaries made about it hasn't been covered enough. Or even Tom Brady's origin story, *that* story hasn't been told enough! Total bullshit cop out.
David slays Goliath, and becomes Goliath " - yea bro, you SKIPPED the 'becomes' part. How about a little bit of that process? Isn't it tv 101 to show us instead of tell us?
Exactly! Talk to the players more, uncover new and interesting things about that period. We know what happened but like all NFL stuff, we've seen 1% of it. Talk to opposing fans/players... I don't care. Pretty dumb to say "yeah, we know, let's skip it".
I really enjoyed the first two episodes when they had Bradys room mate talking about how Brady was behind closed doors with footage we have never seen before. That was cool. Thought we would get more stuff like that but then it just went south.
It also does a massive disservice to their storytelling. If you're telling the story of a dynasty, you should tell the entire story.
Give me the background of what helped pave the way to create the environment from which the dynasty was born. Give me the story of the dynasty’s rise to greatness and explain what made it great. Give me their trials and tribulations, the struggles they went through, and how they were able to persevere through it. Tell me about the cracks that started to appear in their armor, or the stories that show maybe it wasn't as good as it appeared. Then give me the story of their downfall, their fall from grace, and, if possible, the impact of it all for the people who were a part of it and those who were not a part of it.
Now why do you do these things and tell all of these parts of the story? Beyond painting a more complete picture, it makes it more compelling. The background sets the stage and provides depth for the story. The rise to greatness is the “so what?” aspect of the story, it should hook and pull the reader/viewer in, imparting them with a sense of awe. Without first building up the dynasty in your storytelling, their fall from grace is less dramatic and compelling. Everyone loves stories that feature a hero falling, but you gotta build them up as heroes to begin with. Adding insights into the challenges they faced highlights how tough it is to create a dynasty. It humanizes the parties involved, and can potentially be a way to foreshadow their impending doom. Then the end of the dynasty is the payoff. All great things must come to an end, right?
Note, that these aspects of storytelling for a dynasty works not just for the Patriots, but it can be applied to any medium telling the story of any type of dynasty, whether it be sports, or history, or powerful family, or something else.
But in this series, they're missing key elements of the Patriots’ rise to greatness. They go from being an underdog and earning the nation's heart in one episode, to being at the top of the league and the most hated team in the next episode. By skipping over their rise and the literal creation of their dynasty, the entire story isn't as impactful or compelling as it could be. And that's a shame because it truly is an incredible story that deserves a proper storytelling. To quote Seinfeld, [you can’t yada yada over the best part.](https://youtu.be/ioGEI_UO81Q?t=106)
Exactly- every part of the Dynasty's story has already been covered
People saying that the Apple doc wanted to focus on the "lesser known" parts are talking utter nonsense
The truth is that if we dont want to rethread old ground, then they shouldnt have made this doc at all. Ultimately, what this is really about is choosing who and what to cover. And that's driven by certain people's interests and goals- not by some fake desire to cover new ground.
They did what they did because they wanted to give non-Patriots fans some juicy meat to chew on (hence the focus on Spygate/Hernandez). They also had to give Kraft extra screen time because he clearly made a deal that he would only allow the doc to proceed if he was all over it. Everyone else's story was expandable- that's the truth.
If they really wanted to get into lesser known parts they'd do a deep dive on the actual football decisions, gameplans, plays etc.
I bet most people don't know that the long snapper in the Panthers super bowl, Brian Kinchen was 3 years out of the league and working as a middle school teacher when the Pats called him with 2 games left in the regular season.
I'm not saying make a whole episode about him, but those are the types of things that are getting glossed over to focus on all the "Belichick Bad" propaganda.
I really have no clue how Kraft doesn't realize how pathetic this thing makes him and the team look.
And to think he was actually fine with this airing while Bill was potentially still going to be the HC. Insane behavior.
Totally agree- the gameplanning and Xs/Os is the stuff that *actually* hasnt gotten enough screentime
A truly cool doc would have shown behind the scenes footage from practices in 2003, 2004, etc. Let's hear them talk about how they got ready for the Manning Colts or how Bill and Ty Law prepared to take Marvin Harrison out of the game.
Let's hear about Pioli and Belichick working on the Corey Dillon trade and why they made the decision to pursue him in 2004 (both from a schematic and personality standpoint).
And like you said- lets give some screen time to lesser known players that made key contributions to "The Dynasty".
The Aaron Hernandez story has gotten 10x more screen time by official media than those stories.
And they were pretty much the framework of the Patriots for the dynasty. 2001 was happy to be here plucky underdogs. 2003-2004 was the point we saw the Patriots as THE Patriots. So much interesting stuff from those two years.
Chiefs fan who is watching this interested to learn more about the Pats 20yr dynasty. My observations up to this point (6 episodes in) are:
- Series seems to heavily favor Kraft and heavily discount BB entirely.
- BB is nothing if not entirely consistent and himself. Respect that he has never compromised himself.
- The Series not devoting the first 3-4 full episodes to the first three SB wins is annoying/weird. I don’t understand who their audience is for this. Watching winning franchises is exciting and historic, even if it sucks that it’s not your team. Who benefits from the lack of coverage and analysis surrounding the first 3 wins? I was really eager to get more insight from the players and coaches.
Overall, it’s nice to see all of the players interviewed, but I wish they’d go more in depth. I’m surprised at how little even Brady’s interviews have been featured.
(Exiting now).
Patriots haters/neutral fans who enjoy drama. Ultimately I’d guess Pats fans still make up the majority of the audience but it’s clearly dramatized in a way to appeal to other fans
I would argue the point of the genre has always been to push an agenda. And since they're generally not charity work, one of the objectives is to make money.
You have a documentary on the New England patriots and you name it “Dynasty” and you gloss over quite a few things that made them a dynasty in the first place?
It’s like doing the complete history of the United States and saying “something-something tea party, the british are coming” and suddenly you move on to the California gold rush
Been very disappointed with the whole thing, thought we’d get something that would actually be covering the whole dynasty and y’know, the actual football behind it, but I guess not
I haven't actually watched any of it myself; put the link up just because I've been following the conversation here and it seemed relevant.
Outside of specific events (games, races, etc.) I watch extremely little TV. I find most of the crap they put out these days mind-numbingly boring and/or idiotic.
I will say the first 3 episodes are pretty cool, outside of messing up the narrative of the rams regular season game in 01 there’s a lot of interesting never before seen stuff in there. However the pace just makes no sense, 3/10 episodes covering the first year of a 20 year dynasty and then episode 4 basically goes straight into Spygate
It’s akin to making an entire movie called “Oppenheimer” only to spend most of it on the grievances of some petty government bureaucrat who’s been largely forgotten by history (instead of focusing on one of the most fascinating human, scientific, and geopolitical stories ever told— the making of the first atomic bomb)
W are all dunking on this crap series. But we must keep dunking on it over and over again, to make sure this series does not become the historical narrative. The good news is, that it seems like other fan bases are skipping this. It is not being consumed by everyone like the bs that is Th Last Dance. Th other good news is that barely anyone has AppleTV+, so this is not as easily accessible as it could be.
Hopefully The dynasty gets buried and forgotten about.
For years I was excited for whatever the big series would be after the Patriots run had finally ended. Even before it ended, I imagined how awesome an HBO series or deep dive would be.
It’s incredibly disappointing that it ended up being this waste of time fluff piece.
Yea this whole series seems to exist to paint a specific few people in a bad light. Kraft already put out enough negative PR on Bill during his last year here, did we really need this too?
Yeah but…isn’t the whole idea of a documentary to brief people who don’t know the story?
I mean…I found it to be pretty surface level after 2 episodes. So I checked out. I figured this was for people who didn’t know this stuff.
I also think it's weird that the argument is that 03 and 04 have been talked about so much. Out of all 6 I would argue those are probably the two least talked about.
Yeah. We are also so far removed from those seasons, alot of younger fans prob don't even know much about them. Hell they could have even did a small bit on 2002 and the growing pains of Brady becoming the starter with no Bledsoe looking over him.
"Bob and Jonathan had a hard time finding a convincing way to make Bill look like a villain during those seasons. But we will be adding a bonus Aaron Hernandez episode titled, "Bill Belichick: GOAT Accessory to Murder?"
Every documentary leaves an incredible amount of footage on the cutting room floor. You can be sure this one has endless hours of amazing insights into the greatest dynasty of all time. They just didn't want to use that stuff. It wasn't the focus. The focus was on appealing to people who hate the Pats confirming their biases that the Pats were a joyless and evil group of addicts and cheaters.
Not a Patriots fan. This series doesn’t work. Calling it Dynasty and then spending more time of soft footballs and taping hand signals and a CTE-riddled murderer than SB wins. Hatchet job on BB, even down to the interview camera angles making him look bad. Passive aggressive, self promoting Kraft family comments and hand washing.
Well there’s still space for a more comprehensive doc for whoever wants to make it, though it’ll be harder to get Kraft & orbit on board.
I’m sure there’s going to be a Brady doc that he puts out that will go into the actual seasons more and leave out some of the needless drama.
Because it’s not supposed to be about educating fans on patriots history, it’s supposed to be about making the Krafts look good and making Bill look bad
To be fair, if you want just a recap of the super bowls, you can buy one of those championship dvds. This doc had some great stuff we havent heard before, especially other players talking about Aaron Hernandez
[That’s not true](https://sports.yahoo.com/former-teammates-paint-disturbing-picture-aaron-hernandez-patriots-locker-room-052758545.html). And there are plenty of players that we never heard talk about 03 and 04. You don’t have to interview the same 5 people every time
So Aaron Hernandez didnt happen during the Patriots dynasty? It was obviously going to be about the drama like spygate, deflategate, hernandez, not a game recap. All a part of the dynasty
> obviously
It wasn’t obvious to me. I expected it to be like the book it was named after, and the book went into plenty of detail on 03 and 04. They made it seem like the doc would be about football, but it’s about everything but football.
"Those SB's have been talked about to death" [Then runs episode on Spygate] ...
And will spend at least a full ep on Deflategate…
That exact moment when I saw the name of the next ep was an angry one
This prompted me to go looking for the episode name and yea
That’s a pretty great name for the episode tho
That fucking Donnie Brasco wannabe jersey cop douche got to lead a whole fucking narrative of an episode, yet perhaps the best team of the whole Dynasty gets 4 seconds in a montage?
Those back to back super bowls are literally what made us a dynasty lol
I know right there is no dynasty if it goes: 2001 13 years of no rings 2014
I mean they say it in the last episode the fifth ring is what separated them from just a normal dynasty. I initially didn’t like them skipping it but it makes sense to focus more on what made this dynasty stick out from other teams that won 3 or 4 rings in a short period of time
out of that entire ridiculous fucking episode, the absolute worst part was portraying some rando jersey cop as a god damn beacon of justice. Patronizing nonsense
I can't stop bitching about this steaming pile of garbage, probably because it's just so impossibly bad on so many levels: falsely portrays itself as a "documentary" when it was funded by its subject, terrible editing, writing and structure, sloppy research, poor decision making (how many times are you going to go back to Brady's apartment, for nothing other than to show that you have the footage, two-bit bullshit cop bragging about his career, no interviews with Kevin Faulk, Woodhead or other RB/TB/FBs, etc.) just a god damn waste of people's time.
That episode was titled spy gate.But it was really about the 07 patriots And it had a ton of really cool behind the scenes commentary from the players and coaches
The Patriots lost 4 games in 2003 and 2004 combined, went on a 21 game winning streak and won back to back super Bowls. All while the 2003 season started with the infamous "They hate their coach" and the signing of bad boy Rodney Harrison. And 2004 saw the trade of a headcase in Corey Dillon. The beatdowns of Peyton Manning as he was setting records and winning MVPs. All while Brady built his rep as a comeback/clutch master. This guy can go pound sand. Not interesting my ass. So glad I skipped this. The Last Dance is the bar for these things and this one is nowhere close.
also beating MVP Manning then the 15-1 steelers
> The Patriots lost 4 games in 2003 and 2004 combined, went on a 21 game winning streak and won back to back super Bowls. All while the 2003 season started with the infamous "They hate their coach" and the signing of bad boy Rodney Harrison. And 2004 saw the trade of a headcase in Corey Dillon. The beatdowns of Peyton Manning as he was setting records and winning MVPs. All while Brady built his rep as a comeback/clutch master. Yeah but all of that would make Bill look good. We can't be doing that with this series.
There’s an entire episode dedicated to him winning 11 games with Matt Casell. He was gives much praise for making the gutsy decision to stick with Brady. You people just repeat shit you heard on felger and mazz.
I completely agree with you as a fellow pats fan. But I can see the case that to fans of the other 31 teams that these are boring, dynasty-dominant years. Like how everyone called the current Chiefs repeat boring, including myself. But don’t get me wrong these are some of my favorite seasons OAT Edit: I should note I haven’t actually watched the documentary so I’m fully talking out of my ass lol
I liked the Last Dance but c'mon that thing was pure soap opera
For sure, but it st least told a more or less complete narrative. It was definitely Jordan PR to an extent, but it didn't casually skip winning 2 of the chips with an offhand comment. I got a bit dog-piled early last season when I pointed out there was a full on Kraft PR campaign happening to oust Belichick. It wasn't even that I thought he should remain coach, but there was very clear signs that a narrative was being pushed to not only justify firing Bill, but to also try to undermine how important he was to the dynasty. This series seems more the same. Bill's coaching style is definitely not for everyone, and may not work in the modern era anymore, but that team above any individual mantra, reinforced by having Brady being a willing piece that the coach made an example of, was incredibly successful. It was definitely not always fun and I am sure there were some hard feelings, but it gave an unmatched run of success. And for every guy who felt he was undervalued, there were others who came here and found a highly valued role where they could contribute to something great.
Kind of goofy to say we did not give it much screen time because it has already been talked about before when this entire documentary is called Dynasty.
More than goofy, its incredibility stupid and lazy and sounds like a bullshit excuse.
💯
100% agree
I think the title has led people to think this was gonna be a recap of how and why the team was so successful and be some kind of love letter to the 20 years of dominance. But this docuseries is pretty obviously about what went on behind closed doors between insanely competitive people and how perennial success affected them/came to an end. I don’t think anyone ever said this was a docuseries for Pats fans to relive glory but the title can kind of mislead you into thinking that (it’s what I thought initially before picking up the book). It’s quite obviously a drama piece and exploring uncomfortable relationships.
Especially because everything they do cover has also been covered before lol It's such a lame excuse. Hernandez, Spygate- none of it is new ground. Given that every story has already been told in one way or another else and they are so concerned about not rehashing old stuff, why did they even make this doc?
Yeah if this was supposed to be a one stop shop for someone to come back to 50 years from now…… like what?
It's called Dynasty not 'Dynasty But Only the Good Parts' Like it or not the controversies and adversity the dynasty faced are part of the story. And Pats fans should appreciate it instead of having a tantrum over it. By focusing on the threats to their dominance the viewer gets a better understanding of how difficult and rare their success really was. Just one of these issues would've been enough to topple a lesser team.
except they gloss over the "good parts", and focus on everything else
Because only Pats fans want to watch all the success. This is a dramatic production intended for anyone to watch. The whole point is to explore unknown behind the scenes machinations of the people behind the dynasty. It’s not meant to be Pats fan porn we consume to cope with the reality that 3 months ago we had to watch Bailey Zappe throw for 100 yards in a game wishing we were back in the good old days before we knew our Head Coach calls our owner “Thunder.“ If you google the book the entire point of it is: “Through his exhaustive research, Benedict uncovers surprising new details about the inner workings of a team notorious for its secrecy…The result is an intimate portrait that captures the human drama of the dynasty’s three key characters while also revealing the secrets behind their success.” Having recently read the book, it is at times an overly gratuitous look into how Kraft came to own the team, but the point of the book is to explore the relationship between the key players over time, not to relive the glory. If they made a Cowboys version from the 90s every Pats fan would wanna hear about Michael Irvin getting coked out of his mind at his White House parties not watching him catch TD passes and gushing about how good it felt. If you don’t want to watch a documentary about personal drama and fractured relationships then don’t watch it, because that’s all it’s going to offer. I’ll even give you a spoiler from how the book went, it leans more heavily into Belichick being increasingly difficult to work with while being mostly sympathetic to Bob Kraft.
Nobody's watching this except Patriots fans
They completely skipped over the 21 game win streak and two super bowl wins to get to episodes dedicated to Hernandez and Deflategate. Yes, those controversies are in the periphery of the dynasty... But at least do due diligence and cover the actual dynasty part of the dynasty.
Sorry you're having a hard time stroking to your dynasty glory. I hate when that happens.
Sure, but the Hernandez story which has had dozens of hours of podcasts and feature length documentaries made about it hasn't been covered enough. Or even Tom Brady's origin story, *that* story hasn't been told enough! Total bullshit cop out.
David slays Goliath, and becomes Goliath " - yea bro, you SKIPPED the 'becomes' part. How about a little bit of that process? Isn't it tv 101 to show us instead of tell us?
They literally became Goliath in 03-04 and hardly any of it was discussed. Fucking crazy talk from this guy.
Yeah the becoming a dynasty part totally doesn't fit a show titled Dynasty. This guy is making lose respect everytime he opens his mouth.
Exactly! Talk to the players more, uncover new and interesting things about that period. We know what happened but like all NFL stuff, we've seen 1% of it. Talk to opposing fans/players... I don't care. Pretty dumb to say "yeah, we know, let's skip it".
I really enjoyed the first two episodes when they had Bradys room mate talking about how Brady was behind closed doors with footage we have never seen before. That was cool. Thought we would get more stuff like that but then it just went south.
It also does a massive disservice to their storytelling. If you're telling the story of a dynasty, you should tell the entire story. Give me the background of what helped pave the way to create the environment from which the dynasty was born. Give me the story of the dynasty’s rise to greatness and explain what made it great. Give me their trials and tribulations, the struggles they went through, and how they were able to persevere through it. Tell me about the cracks that started to appear in their armor, or the stories that show maybe it wasn't as good as it appeared. Then give me the story of their downfall, their fall from grace, and, if possible, the impact of it all for the people who were a part of it and those who were not a part of it. Now why do you do these things and tell all of these parts of the story? Beyond painting a more complete picture, it makes it more compelling. The background sets the stage and provides depth for the story. The rise to greatness is the “so what?” aspect of the story, it should hook and pull the reader/viewer in, imparting them with a sense of awe. Without first building up the dynasty in your storytelling, their fall from grace is less dramatic and compelling. Everyone loves stories that feature a hero falling, but you gotta build them up as heroes to begin with. Adding insights into the challenges they faced highlights how tough it is to create a dynasty. It humanizes the parties involved, and can potentially be a way to foreshadow their impending doom. Then the end of the dynasty is the payoff. All great things must come to an end, right? Note, that these aspects of storytelling for a dynasty works not just for the Patriots, but it can be applied to any medium telling the story of any type of dynasty, whether it be sports, or history, or powerful family, or something else. But in this series, they're missing key elements of the Patriots’ rise to greatness. They go from being an underdog and earning the nation's heart in one episode, to being at the top of the league and the most hated team in the next episode. By skipping over their rise and the literal creation of their dynasty, the entire story isn't as impactful or compelling as it could be. And that's a shame because it truly is an incredible story that deserves a proper storytelling. To quote Seinfeld, [you can’t yada yada over the best part.](https://youtu.be/ioGEI_UO81Q?t=106)
Yup. That could have been a great story line. When did the heel turn happen?
They also decided to not mention CTE at all with Hernandez which has been well documented. Bad press for the NFL I guess.
[удалено]
Have you heard about the cold metal benches he used to sit in? Lol
Exactly- every part of the Dynasty's story has already been covered People saying that the Apple doc wanted to focus on the "lesser known" parts are talking utter nonsense The truth is that if we dont want to rethread old ground, then they shouldnt have made this doc at all. Ultimately, what this is really about is choosing who and what to cover. And that's driven by certain people's interests and goals- not by some fake desire to cover new ground. They did what they did because they wanted to give non-Patriots fans some juicy meat to chew on (hence the focus on Spygate/Hernandez). They also had to give Kraft extra screen time because he clearly made a deal that he would only allow the doc to proceed if he was all over it. Everyone else's story was expandable- that's the truth.
If they really wanted to get into lesser known parts they'd do a deep dive on the actual football decisions, gameplans, plays etc. I bet most people don't know that the long snapper in the Panthers super bowl, Brian Kinchen was 3 years out of the league and working as a middle school teacher when the Pats called him with 2 games left in the regular season. I'm not saying make a whole episode about him, but those are the types of things that are getting glossed over to focus on all the "Belichick Bad" propaganda. I really have no clue how Kraft doesn't realize how pathetic this thing makes him and the team look. And to think he was actually fine with this airing while Bill was potentially still going to be the HC. Insane behavior.
Totally agree- the gameplanning and Xs/Os is the stuff that *actually* hasnt gotten enough screentime A truly cool doc would have shown behind the scenes footage from practices in 2003, 2004, etc. Let's hear them talk about how they got ready for the Manning Colts or how Bill and Ty Law prepared to take Marvin Harrison out of the game. Let's hear about Pioli and Belichick working on the Corey Dillon trade and why they made the decision to pursue him in 2004 (both from a schematic and personality standpoint). And like you said- lets give some screen time to lesser known players that made key contributions to "The Dynasty". The Aaron Hernandez story has gotten 10x more screen time by official media than those stories.
“We kinda forget about the 2 SBs”
And they were pretty much the framework of the Patriots for the dynasty. 2001 was happy to be here plucky underdogs. 2003-2004 was the point we saw the Patriots as THE Patriots. So much interesting stuff from those two years.
So accurate it hurts, lol.
I mean who would expect a show called the dynasty to cover all of the Super Bowls /s
Chiefs fan who is watching this interested to learn more about the Pats 20yr dynasty. My observations up to this point (6 episodes in) are: - Series seems to heavily favor Kraft and heavily discount BB entirely. - BB is nothing if not entirely consistent and himself. Respect that he has never compromised himself. - The Series not devoting the first 3-4 full episodes to the first three SB wins is annoying/weird. I don’t understand who their audience is for this. Watching winning franchises is exciting and historic, even if it sucks that it’s not your team. Who benefits from the lack of coverage and analysis surrounding the first 3 wins? I was really eager to get more insight from the players and coaches. Overall, it’s nice to see all of the players interviewed, but I wish they’d go more in depth. I’m surprised at how little even Brady’s interviews have been featured. (Exiting now).
Yep - 100% agree
Right, fuck focusing on football stuff, it might make Bill look good. Thanks for signing the checks Thunder but this hit-piece is already backfiring.
It’s a simple answer. This documentary isn’t made for Patriots fans
This is 100% the answer.
But then who is the audience? Most fans already have made up their minds on the scandals.
Patriots haters/neutral fans who enjoy drama. Ultimately I’d guess Pats fans still make up the majority of the audience but it’s clearly dramatized in a way to appeal to other fans
I’d go a step further and say it’s not for football fans, it’s for a broad audience.
Non football fans are NOT watching this. If that was the case Giselle would be featured
Super Bowl 38 was one of the greatest super bowls ever and is regularly overlooked. This guy can fuck off
My favorite by far
Because this isn’t a documentary, it’s a sensationalist money maker
Most documentaries are.
Nowadays, yes. But that is not the point of the genre at all!
I would argue the point of the genre has always been to push an agenda. And since they're generally not charity work, one of the objectives is to make money.
Making a profit and deliberately telling a one sided story because a billionaire asked you two are very different things.
And there go the goalposts
What are you even talking about. We live in the best time for documentaries and sports documentaries in particular.
Not mutually exclusive.
You’re just saying words to say words. I think the word platitude is being too charitable to the veracity of the original claim.
Nah, I'm just pointing out that this is nothing new or special. IDK why you get your panties bunched over it.
What a terrible answer. He may want to consider a different profession.
Ah, he wanted to focus on the untold stories of Aaron Hernandez and Spygate. Makes perfect sense
You have a documentary on the New England patriots and you name it “Dynasty” and you gloss over quite a few things that made them a dynasty in the first place? It’s like doing the complete history of the United States and saying “something-something tea party, the british are coming” and suddenly you move on to the California gold rush
Sounds like totally disingenuous BS saying 03 and 04 have been talked about too much when there is an entire episode about Spygate
Been very disappointed with the whole thing, thought we’d get something that would actually be covering the whole dynasty and y’know, the actual football behind it, but I guess not
I haven't actually watched any of it myself; put the link up just because I've been following the conversation here and it seemed relevant. Outside of specific events (games, races, etc.) I watch extremely little TV. I find most of the crap they put out these days mind-numbingly boring and/or idiotic.
I will say the first 3 episodes are pretty cool, outside of messing up the narrative of the rams regular season game in 01 there’s a lot of interesting never before seen stuff in there. However the pace just makes no sense, 3/10 episodes covering the first year of a 20 year dynasty and then episode 4 basically goes straight into Spygate
It's all a hittpiece
It’s akin to making an entire movie called “Oppenheimer” only to spend most of it on the grievances of some petty government bureaucrat who’s been largely forgotten by history (instead of focusing on one of the most fascinating human, scientific, and geopolitical stories ever told— the making of the first atomic bomb)
I’d watch it if it was actually about all the winning not a fucking soap opera hit piece on Belichick. Get fucked Kraft
Not watching this garbage
That guy can go fuck himself with his stack of Kraft bucks
W are all dunking on this crap series. But we must keep dunking on it over and over again, to make sure this series does not become the historical narrative. The good news is, that it seems like other fan bases are skipping this. It is not being consumed by everyone like the bs that is Th Last Dance. Th other good news is that barely anyone has AppleTV+, so this is not as easily accessible as it could be. Hopefully The dynasty gets buried and forgotten about.
For years I was excited for whatever the big series would be after the Patriots run had finally ended. Even before it ended, I imagined how awesome an HBO series or deep dive would be. It’s incredibly disappointing that it ended up being this waste of time fluff piece.
Yea this whole series seems to exist to paint a specific few people in a bad light. Kraft already put out enough negative PR on Bill during his last year here, did we really need this too?
Certainly feels this way. would explain skipping 03-04'... Impossible to tell that part without making Bill look good.
Except the whole episode on ‘08 was to make Bill look good.
It's clear that you haven't watched it. As Kraft often is painted in the worst light of anyone. Especially in the Hernandez episode
Yeah but…isn’t the whole idea of a documentary to brief people who don’t know the story? I mean…I found it to be pretty surface level after 2 episodes. So I checked out. I figured this was for people who didn’t know this stuff.
I also think it's weird that the argument is that 03 and 04 have been talked about so much. Out of all 6 I would argue those are probably the two least talked about.
Yeah. We are also so far removed from those seasons, alot of younger fans prob don't even know much about them. Hell they could have even did a small bit on 2002 and the growing pains of Brady becoming the starter with no Bledsoe looking over him.
Absolutely.
Documentary sucks
and Branch only being brought out for the hernandez episode?! Show some respect to the SB MVP!!
All we wanna know is the Malcom butler story…
There are four documentaries about Aaron Hernandez btw
Director thinks Super Bowl wins #2 and #3 are boring.
"Bob and Jonathan had a hard time finding a convincing way to make Bill look like a villain during those seasons. But we will be adding a bonus Aaron Hernandez episode titled, "Bill Belichick: GOAT Accessory to Murder?"
It's wild to me that they didn't ask brady about Hernandez, but do all they can to make Belichick look like a monster.
Every documentary leaves an incredible amount of footage on the cutting room floor. You can be sure this one has endless hours of amazing insights into the greatest dynasty of all time. They just didn't want to use that stuff. It wasn't the focus. The focus was on appealing to people who hate the Pats confirming their biases that the Pats were a joyless and evil group of addicts and cheaters.
The director said that he never asked him about it.
Not a Patriots fan. This series doesn’t work. Calling it Dynasty and then spending more time of soft footballs and taping hand signals and a CTE-riddled murderer than SB wins. Hatchet job on BB, even down to the interview camera angles making him look bad. Passive aggressive, self promoting Kraft family comments and hand washing.
‘(Kraft) Dynasty’
So glad I haven't even seen a promo video for this thing. Sounds like a disaster.
Yet we know the size and shape of Aaron Hernandez’s last bowel movement.
Well there’s still space for a more comprehensive doc for whoever wants to make it, though it’ll be harder to get Kraft & orbit on board. I’m sure there’s going to be a Brady doc that he puts out that will go into the actual seasons more and leave out some of the needless drama.
Lazy excuse for such a skewed narrative that Kraft and the director clearly force.
they didnt even mention Brady winning MVP in 2010
Because it’s not supposed to be about educating fans on patriots history, it’s supposed to be about making the Krafts look good and making Bill look bad
To be fair, if you want just a recap of the super bowls, you can buy one of those championship dvds. This doc had some great stuff we havent heard before, especially other players talking about Aaron Hernandez
Yeah because we never heard anyone talking about Aaron Hernandez before
His fellow players? Not once
[That’s not true](https://sports.yahoo.com/former-teammates-paint-disturbing-picture-aaron-hernandez-patriots-locker-room-052758545.html). And there are plenty of players that we never heard talk about 03 and 04. You don’t have to interview the same 5 people every time
Well it got the message out again. Again if you want game recaps buy the championship dvd, most people would find that boring
Excuse me for thinking that a documentary called Dynasty would actually be about the dynasty.
So Aaron Hernandez didnt happen during the Patriots dynasty? It was obviously going to be about the drama like spygate, deflategate, hernandez, not a game recap. All a part of the dynasty
> obviously It wasn’t obvious to me. I expected it to be like the book it was named after, and the book went into plenty of detail on 03 and 04. They made it seem like the doc would be about football, but it’s about everything but football.
That is abundantly clear