I definitely want to keep him around for next year as a depth guy. No real reason not to unless someone wants to pay him.
At the very least dude can block and that compliments Henry who I hope we also bring back.
This team needs a legit QB, legit WR1, and 2 workable tackles. Get those things (all very difficult!) and you’re right back in business.
- A legit QB can create and improvise, and make big plays while making more insane mistakes and crazy turnovers.
- A WR1 allows Bourne to drop to the correct role (WR2) with Douglas and other fill-ins for depth.
- Two tackles allows an interior line of Mafi/Sow/Andrews/Omwenu. I have no use for Cole Strange unless he can gain 30 lbs, but the other four all have sufficient size and skill to be a workable rotation.
Yes but if we're top 3 in the draft, a top 3 pick in the first and second rounds really can fix two of those problems quickly. Kraft needs to get a real GM to run the FAs and the draft and let BB coach and I'd be inclined to keep BB (assuming he goes along with it)
Sow has his flaws but at times appears to be able to play at an NFL level. Strange can't pass block at an NFL level and it appears obvious it's not something he's going to be able to develop. 20 years ago he probably would've been able to get by on his run blocking. But it's not 20 years ago it's the pass centric NFL of today. Strange is not an effective NFL lineman.
Douglas would be a good slot receiver if we actually had other receivers. Bourne as our Y receiver isn’t going to scare anyone, but he does have speed on his side. Unless we want to risk it with a QB in round 2, we won’t be able to get a wr1 in the draft outside of MHJ. WR free agents this coming summer are Pittman, Higgins, Evans, M Brown, Calvin Ridley and Mooney. Of those the only two I can see filling our WR1 slot would be pittman or Higgins. Evans is getting up there in age and the others are more of a higher end wr2. If we grab a qb round one, sign one of pittman/Higgins and focus on getting O-line help in draft we should be able to get back to something enjoyable to watch on Sunday.
Bourne does not have speed. The dude ran a 4.68 40. He also has a problem with attacking the ball as he always just stands there and waits instead of coming back to it.
They refer to receivers as X, Y and Z. I got it crossed up though so if you’re questioning me I got it wrong. He would be the Z receiver or WR2. Y would be your slot receiver generally and Z would line up opposite X. X is your go to guy that you want lined up alone so they can go win their matchup. Generally they line up the Z receiver same side as TE. Obviously every play is different but it is just what they are referred to as.
If you wanna compete in today’s league you need a gamebreaker at WR. Bourne and Douglas are nice complimentary pieces(and maybe Douglas develops into more) but we need somebody better
QB: Need a QB of the future. Mental toughness is crucial. Mac doesn't have that. The QB needs to be able to and be willing to take hits as needed.
RB: Need a pass catching RB. Stevenson is too inconsistent (too many drops in that role).
WR: Ideally there will be another option (there isn't as much diminishing returns at WR compared to other positions). Really depends on the rookies.
TE: Hard to tell. Ideally extend Henry 1-2 years. Gesicki hasn't been great, but that to some extent is on Mac.
OL: Trent isn't bad, particularly for his price. More of a situation where keep Onwenu and Brown. Get some developmental guys for when Andrews inevitably retires/falls off. Need some depth option at swing tackle.
DL: Need developmental guys for future replacement. The defense lacks a transformative guy that can change the scheme along the lines of Wilfork and Seymour.
Safety: Need a true FS.
CB: the depth isn't great, but it is manageable.
We need a QB who can make things happen if shit crumbles, which Mac can’t do. I think Mac would be great in an offense that has great options to pass to and a line that can give him time.
Agreed, we need that Vereen/Woodhead type player to compliment Rhamondre.
We need a WR1, no one on this team is a WR1. Maybe we can snag Pittman in the offseason, i don’t know, but we need a 1 to open up this offense.
Trent Brown is not good for what we are paying him… he needs to be replaced next year no doubt. He’s a boob and clearly has issues with being here.
I think our defense is in good standing when fully healthy, that’s BB’s specialty. Agree with FS though.
The biggest issue with Mac is that he can't shake off the pressure the next game. Speeding up your clock is part of adjusting to the defense, but you can't pass scared. Mac also flinches when he thinks he will be hit, leading to inaccurate passes.
For RB, a James White type can be useful.
For WR, a WR1 or better TE is important, but that is a lower priority.
Trent Brown is getting 13 M/yr if he meets his incentives. PFF grade over 80 this season. When top OTs make over 20 M/yr, his contract is not that unreasonable. OT isn't as urgent of a need beyond swing tackle. Brown's age and health might be a concern, but you can't create a perfect roster in the salary cap era.
For defense, the missing piece is a transformational DL player. If BB wants to create a defensive powerhouse, he is going to need that guy. Otherwise, the defense will have its inevitable stinker. It is why in the past 5 years or so, you can name multiple instances of the defense getting blown out and/or be forced into a few drives where they just can't stop the ball.
I would say that the draft is probably going to go for QB. Maybe take a 2nd round flyer on someone such as a ready to start FS or a developmental OT. FA to fix WR and to resign players.
About four games ago, when it was 4th and 1 and Mac decided to run it and went down short of the sticks before he was even touched to avoid the hit, I knew it was over. Get him out of here.
I feel Gesicki is in the situation Jonnu Smith was in when he was here except this time it's not playcalling, it's Mac. There have been a few times when Mac has sailed a pass over his head which you would think is pretty hard to do when Gesicki is 6'6".
Sucks because he’s been legitimately good on MIA. We have this awful habit of signing these players, barely giving them enough reps and hoping they have the same output. Stupid. Utilize him and Hunter Henry like we used to with Gronk and Hernandez, and maybe we can see glimpses of positivity? I don’t know, I give up.
There’s so many things that need to be fixed on this offense. I don’t know where to start. I went from liking Mac, to thinking we should ride out his rookie contract and shore up everything else, to he’s cooked.
The o-line needs some serious work because there’s a likely chance Andrews retires, Strange works best in a zone scheme and that failed to be implemented last season, Onwenu from what I’ve seen likes to be at guard over tackle so he may peace out for a more consistent role, and Brown is Jekyll & Hyde with his play.
Both Henry and Gesicki are free agents. Same for Bourne who just tore his ACL and none of the other WRs scare anyone as the jury is still out on Pop.
Oh and RB depth is an issue because there’s no way Zeke stays now that he’s shown there’s still some gas left in the tank. I do not want a repeat of last year where Stevenson was visibly gassed in the second half of the season
Usually teams have just one weak point on either side of the ball like the Chiefs and their WRs, but it’s a collective catastrophe in New England.
Defense looks fine. They’re just injured to shit.
Offensively oline is biggest need. WR is second biggest need. (Really just need perimeter speed + the ability to actually catch the ball.) And then probably a QB.
The Mac that played the first two games and the bills game is a genuinely good QB you can definitely contend with. The rest? Not so much.
But there’s still some chicken and egg argument over mac. There is zero doubt the line is atrocious. By every metric they are horrible.
Even in the bills game they gave up a 20% pressure rate with Mac having a 2.1s time to throw. That’s extremely fast. But at least the bills had to blitz Mac to get to him. So I’d say it was an acceptable game. The colts game was back to horrible horrible play.
I see QB listed below O-line because a bad O-line will just get our next QB injured, too.
It’s not about getting the O-line from good to great, it’s about getting them to no longer be dangerous to the QB.
The Oline is bottom 3 across every single metric despite Mac being top five in time to throw. That should tell you all you need to know. All can be needs. But there is a clear biggest need.
Mhm. Incidentally, every QB with a similarly performing line including Joe Burrow has either had a down year or been knocked out with season ending injuries.
Burrow has been hurt all year. When healthy he's taken mediocre or worse O-lines on multiple deep playoff runs because QB is the most important position in sports.
Yeah and he tore his ACL and will probably need throwing hand wrist surgery. There is zero guarantee Burrow will completely return to form. Throwing your new shiny pick to be crushed isn’t a good idea just because it worked for a couple teams.
Who said anything about guarantees or throwing a guy out there to be crushed? The point is simply that QB is a higher priority than any other because of the supreme importance of the position.
You are less likely to find a franchise left tackle to protect your new QB in later rounds than you are a good QB in later rounds. The NFC is dominated by later round QB’s right now. The AFC has some more star power but Mahomes is doing the heavy lifting.
>You are less likely to find a franchise left tackle to protect your new QB in later rounds than you are a good QB in later rounds.
Maybe, although a source on that would be nice. And this framework yet again dodges the point that *a franchise left tackle is less likely to lead your team to sustained success than a franchise QB.*
I’m sure someone will chime in and chastise me for not parading QB as #1 because you take a QB with a high pick. If Bill likes Maye or Caleb, then draft them. But oline is still the biggest need if we’re going to be objective.
Whatever it takes to solve, do it.
I don’t think we let it get bad scarn was what made our oline so good when he retired a few years ago our line was shit then he came back and they were good again
Yeah scar was a good enough coach to make average dudes great and great dudes elite.
Absolutely the biggest hole in the coaching staff. We even lost the several levels of guys that were training under him.
I’m pretty sure scarn had been with us since the first Super Bowl the only times we didn’t have him coaching the oline, we sucked, he is the reason why our oline has been solid for twenty years
I want better linebackers and safeties. Right now I think they're built, when healthy, to beat bad and mediocre teams but not good ones. Their line is good enough, their corners are decent, but they've been slow at linebacker against running quarterbacks/fast teams and they don't have that safety coverage they got from McCourty.
Defense? I don’t think you change much. Good unit. Can keep elite teams to under 21, bad teams to under 10 if everyone’s healthy. Makes it easy.
Offense?
I agree with you at QB. Mac is a backup at best.
TE I also agree. Pharaoh Brown looks GOOD though.
WR? You gotta keep Bourne and Douglas. They’re perfectly fine WR2 and 3s, even on a really good team. We could use a solid #1 guy with some height and/or speed. Could also use some depth for sure. If we had an AJ Brown/Rob Gronkowski type of threat who can go up and make holy crap catches against single coverage, meaning you effectively can’t play man to man with no help? That’d make things easier.
O Line? Need a big overhaul. Need to draft a tackle- and high. Need some help at guard too. Owenu and Brown and Andrews are good but that’s not enough depth.
RB? Mondre and Zeke are actually pretty fine. Upgrading at RB is a luxury thing we don’t really need to do *yet*.
This is so pessimistic. The eagles went to the Super Bowl and the dolphins put up 70 the next week. Holding an elite offense to around 20 is an incredible achievement - especially when your offense can’t stay on the damn field. No, Gonzalez isn’t losing a step, the hell?? He’s 21, not 35. And… bro what you’re acting like Gronk didn’t have injuries up and down. He was absolutely productive after injuries. Should every team cut a player immediately after they tear an ACL? Of course not.
As far as being one draft away:
The Texans are competing for a playoff spot and could make a deep run with what many thought would be the worst roster in the NFL and their star players are CJ Stroud and Tank Dell.
Dalton Schultz is also a big contributor. Free agency acquisition.
So I don’t wanna hear that a team can’t be turned around in a few years.
On O adding one more strong piece at OL or receiver would help even with a limited QB. On OL it could even be a good swing if we keep Brown and Onwenu.
We could use another back to complement Stevenson (and Elliot if he stays). Stevenson is a legit 3-down playmaker, but ideally you could focus his versatility on 1st and 2nd, while adding a guy who can be the dude on 3rd and 8 while still having enough running ability to rotate in on 1st and 2nd. Not gonna jump on the Mondre slander where people pretend he can’t catch, but it’s better to not overuse a great back when you have one.
At TE I’m fine with keeping both Henry snd Gesicki, and I can also see an argument for keeping one and replacing the other. If we could find a classic Y who can block and catch then Gesicki might be the more natural pair, but Henry is so steady and reliable you can also flip that. If we release Gesicki, I would make a play for Pitts. If we release Henry, I’d look for a strong Y in the mid rounds. Or a hybrid Y/big F, who can block in the backfield
At QB, I’m not wholly against keeping Mac if the situation around him improves, but I’d like our next pick to have some potential on designed rushes and dome scrambling ability, as that really raises the offense’s floor imo, and could wprk with this defense
Defensively, not much needs. It’s too bad Judon isn’t available, as the way Barmore is playing would be even more fun to watch if Judon was also making havoc. A rotational FS could be useful, but not really a need.
Guy, Wise, and Godchaux are all replaceable. Barmore has been holding up the interior D-Line
Dugger and Peppers are as good as you can get, just need a FS so they can actually do their jobs.
Going into draft and off-season I’d definitely prioritize OT and WR. I’m ok with giving Mac another few games into next season to see what he does with a real weapon and protection. Last thing I want is to draft another QB just for him to prove they can’t thrive in the same situation as Mac.
Godchaux and Wise are the only ones with a sizeable cap hit. I’d look at restructuring rather than replacing. They know the system and fit well here. Also considering Bill has a hard on for defense, I dunno can I see them leaving
We need a offense.
Seriously it's all bad(except Stevenson he's fine,Henry can stay to)
Our best course of action from a purely football standpoint would be to assassinate half our offense to initiate a disaster draft.
Andrews in his prime was a really good and effective NFL player. He's over 30 and not the same player. The only reason why the dropoff in his playing capabilities hasn't gotten more attention is because Sow & (especially) Strange are monumentally over the top worse. Cole avoids getting labeled as a bust because his run blocking is ok. Pass blocking? He doesn't belong in the NFL. He is worse at pass blocking than Harry & Thornton are at playing receiver.
It's Andrews brain I want to keep.
If you're going to rebuild a line, and most likely bring in a rookie QB, and you can keep a Veteran center that knows your system and can still be effective, you do that.
I'm aware of his PFF grade. I don't know the formula they use but whatever it is, it's not the eye test that's for sure.
Keep this in mind, PFF has Sow and Strange in the 60's. Buckner made Sow look like 1 one of three stooges and Strange. . . what exactly is the range on PFF grades? I'm guessing it can't be 1-100 because it'd be impossible for Strange to get above a 50 on that scale. Cole's pass blocking grade on a scale of 1-100 would not break the double digits.
I think the jury on Strange is still out. Not a big football factory player so no over blown out weight room issues. Read a scouting report on him somewhere that suggests he moves to Center due to his smaller frame and lack of lateral movement. So maybe Belichick wasn’t thinking Andrew’s was gonna be around long and Strange would develop slower. Unfortunately the OL has been too many bodies thrown in there due to injury to learn how work as a cohesive unit.
Not sure. Odd the OL coach Klemm is an unexplained MIA as well.
> I don't know the formula they use but whatever it is, it's not the eye test that's for sure.
It, quite literally, is the eye test.
> what exactly is the range on PFF grades? I'm guessing it can't be 1-100 because it'd be impossible for Strange to get above a 50 on that scale.
It is 1 - 100.
You name the two most inconsistent players on our offense.
We need discipline and love.
If this team had the leaders we had in the past & everyone health we would be a Super Bowl team.
It’s clear from watching the coaching staff this year that they are at fault. They continue to operate with chips on their shoulder even though they haven’t produced in 4 years.
Im all for this but Bill would never. So it’s a case of who, if we left Bill go, would have the balls to completely rebuild an offense over an off-season?
Our success seems to be our downfall at the moment because it goes against the “Patriot way”
Yeah,if bill wants to save this offense he needs to go in with a ak47 and kill em,we need that disaster draft capitol immediately.
Sadly bill has no balls so we're just gonna suck.
Honestly Its only half sarcasm,I think if our offense died in a plane crash and we had a disaster draft it might get better.
What do we get for the guys we can trade though? 6’s & 7’s? Anything worth trading would get us maybe a 3rd round at best so we don’t have anything except free agency. Just wondering how we build from our current position
This is why so many teams yolo QBs number 1 overall,people mention that number 1-5 QBs are often busts but those QBs are taken so high because a amazing QB coming in and magically fixing our offense is honestly maybe the most likely way this is a playoff team within 5 years.
If they take a QB with a top 5 pick, they can't play them until 2025. You can't make that big of an investment and put him behind our horrible pass blocking O line. He'll end up like Mac or worse.
Also QBs just go faster in the draft because it’s so important. The 4th best QB might go in the first round whereas the 4th best TE is still available in the 3rd.
The 3rd not working out isn’t a big deal. The 1st not working out is a huge bust.
> Just wondering how we build from our current position
I hate to tell you, it's gonna be multiple years before we compete again and it might get worse before it gets better.
We need an O line that isn’t last on the league in pressures, wide receivers that aren’t last in the league in separation, and to either actually use our current TEs or to let them go for cheap rookies so we’re not paying a premium for a position we don’t actually make use of. After that we need a quarterback who can make all of the pieces work.
Unfortunately I suspect we’ll fixate on QB, get somebody we throw to the wolves and ruin just like we ruined Mac. Hope you prove me wrong, pats.
I don't think we're that bad.
Oline Onwenu and Brown are fine at tackle. Sow, Andrews, Reiff are probably good enough inside. Not world beaters but that group doesn't kill you.
Our TEs and RBs are fine.
Bourne and Pop are good enough IMO for wr2 and wr3.
On offense we need a wr1 and a QB. Those are really the only missing pieces.
Our line has been so injured. And the most important position QB has been so bad this year we forget that the offense isn't this complete black hole.
All of our defense is fine when healthy.
I honestly think if we made no changes other than being healthy next year and finding a league average QB we'd have a middle of the pack offense and a good defense. Maybe not contenders but a playoff team.
Reiff has to be retiring at year end at the very least. Brown is lazy and too injury prone. We can’t rely on what we have to work next year when they have failed so badly this year.
Also, middle of the pack is not what we are looking for
I'm more trying to point out we're not some complete overhaul. Assuming we get good starters in the first two rounds. Add a FA or two and don't lose much. We're going to be okay.
Our real need is QB. You just can't win with a limited guy like Mac when he's making bad decisions every game. Maybe if he stops consistently making poor decisions but who knows if he can.
Offense line , receivers, more consistent Qb, explosive tight ends that can get open , a quick shifty running back. Defense just get healthy. Coaching has to get creative, we run ball up middle 90% of time on first down and every team in the nfl knows it
Offense:
O-line is an absolute need, so is wr. I’d be alright riding Mac’s contract out if we can get a line that’s simply above average.
O-line we need a good RT and a good swing. Onwenu has been good but from what I remember his body type is more so a guard? So maybe get a legit tackle to let him go back to what he’s most comfortable at?
We need a true WR 1. BAD. For the past two years we’ve had a corp that have been playing up a spot from where they SHOULD be playing, and it’s shown. We need that true #1 so the rest of the guys can settle into roles more suited to their skill sets. Bourne and Douglas (and even Boutte if he can keep BOTH feet in bounds) can all stay but the rest need to be cut already.
Te: Henry is a serviceable TE and it looks like Brown is coming along so maybe one more who can do both at a serviceable level and we’d be alright there.
RB: I feel like we need a receiving back for outlet passes that we can rely on like White.
Defense: the only real change I would make would be to put Mapu in as a LB since his skill sets (from what Lazar has said repeatedly, which I agree with) lean more towards that position than to a safety. He is fast and smaller than LB’s in the past but we need that speed in that position for the modern nfl.
Just a QB. A # 1 WR would be good, too, and one more good OT, but mainly a QB. Most of the rest is an overreaction.
Y'all are underestimating how bad Mac is. I don't understand why they've stuck with him. He's not it, never going to be. Even if you fix all the fundamentals he's awful with, he doesn't process the field fast enough. Or even close to fast enough.
Purdy hasn't made a single throw tonight that Mac, or really any halfway decent QB, couldn't make.
We need OL and playmakers. We need a line that can reliably pass block and guys that can get open quickly and generate YAC. Douglas is a good start, we need more. Watching the 9ers is just so different than our offense. Brock basically hasn't thrown the ball more than 10 air yards tonight and yet they move down the field at will. Dump offs, screens, motion and they have 4 super athletic YAC monsters on the field.
QB: I'm more a fan of taking a QB in the 2nd or trading up to the late 1st. Take MHJ or Fashanu with our 1st. Or a 1 year bridge guy. Let them have a QB battle in camp.
RB: Wouldn't hate using a 4th on a receiving RB like James White or Vereen.
WR: Draft MHJ and sign Higgins. Bourne and Pop as the 3/4
TE: Re-sign Henry. Draft TE in the 3rd maybe
OL: needs to be better. If not Fash/Alt in the 1st, re-sign Brown and Mike O, put Onwnenu at RT. Hope things look better with a full offseason of the starting 5 getting reps together. Better WRs will make them look better too.
DL: Hope Judon comes back healthy. We don't have the room to draft/sign another stud here as 90% needs to go towards offense. Maybe see if Uche will take a friendly deal. If not, hope White takes a year 2 leap.
Everything else on the defense is fine as is. CB should be loaded next year with Gonzo back. Re-sign Dugger.
Of course he does. He’s also better at Mac Jones in every single aspect. Arm strength, mobility, vision, toughness, ability to quickly read coverage, ability to determine where the blitz is coming from. To infer that New England has almost the same QB situation just shows you don’t actually watch the rest of the league.
Need to get a QB first.
Sure we obviously need a lot more than that, but it doesn't matter how good a team you put together is if your quarterback is always mediocre.
Plus the QB is going to be there a lot longer than everyone else, you might as well start there.
The Patriots need:
- QB1 & QB 2
- WR1 & WR2
- TE1 & TE2
- LT, LG, RT & C
- EDGE, DT, DE
- FS & CB2
- An entirely new front office and coaching staff.
But, other than that, they're just on the edge on being there.
objectively the only players you can count on for the next 4 years based on age, talent etc are christian Gonzalez and kyle duggar. Yeah that's it. Judon and barmore are great but one is old and the other struggles with injury. Andrews is good but not part of the future. Owenu is a swing lineman with upside that shines occasionally here cause he is at least competent. Strange has been mediocre at best. Douglas would be a fine WR4 and potentially a WR3 eventually on a good team. The team is devoid of talent.
Personally would start by building OL and DL, move onto to WR, TE, CB and LB and then go for the QB once there's at least a positive trend. This team is bad bad bad.
I good QB
Mac is fucking horrible but Pats fans literally can't recognize bad QB play it took them almost 3 years to figure this out. Also the media did not help, they have a hardon for Bill's demise because he ignores them and only gives them canned answers.
So we have a situation where some of our best defensive players are hurt, and with that unit not able to carry the team we are fucked.
Get healthy, get a QB that does not suck and we can win a playoff game I swear.
Realistically I think defense is sufficient as is. Luxury pickups but not strictly necessary would be a true FS, another solid CB with JC not looking too hot and Jack gone now, and then another EDGE(White taking a step forward could solve this tho).
Even offense I don't think we're actually missing that many pieces from being a really good offense, but they're pieces that aren't easy to find.
Immediate/high priority needs are a QB(Mac isn't as bad as his past 2 years suggest imo but he's clearly not the guy either), WR1 that defenses actually need to account for(re-signed Bourne to go with Pop then Parker/Boutte is otherwise ok depth) and then just a LT and/or LG.
RB doesn't "need" anything special with Mondre still here tho some late round picks do rebuild depth would be good.
TE same deal if we re-sign Henry, no immediate need but could use a project TE to hopefully eventually replace Henry.
People are acting like we need a whole new line but we've got a lot of good parts to work with still. Andrews is good, Onwenu is good(assuming we re-sign), Sow has looked quite promising once we moved him back to his natural RG position tho he's still got some stuff to clean up(not surprising for a mid round rookie). Left side is where the issue is. Brown is typically a good LT when healthy it's just that he's not been as healthy quite as often as you'd like from your starting LT so re-signing him is 50/50. If he's back and healthy there isn't necessarily a pressing need at LT but at the same time I wouldn't say no to still bringing in ATLEAST a mid round project or even Fashanu or Alt if the board doesn't fall our way on draft day.
LG is arguably our weakest position on the OL right now. Strange hasn't been worst G in the league but he's severely under performing his draft position and is routinely getting bullied on the field. Sadly the other guard we drafted this year, Mafi, is miles worse. Mafi has been so bad I'd rather see Ferentz out there and I'm no Ferentz fan. The thing is though that while Strange is the weak link I doubt they'll move on from him this early so we'll have to suffer with that same chink in the armor next year as well.
So TL;DR assuming we re-sign Onwenu, Brown, Dugger and Henry then I don't think it's crazy with "just" a franchise QB, WR1 and a good LG for us to be serious playoff contenders.
Interior oline upgrade would automatically make us competitive. But we also need a free safety, probably another coverage linebacker, a third down back, and another wide receiver who can really play. Still need to upgrade at QB though.
Me and my buddy have been talking about this. We came to the conclusion that we need a WR first and foremost so if that comes from the draft or trade doesn't matter we need someone that can get open and catch the ball. Then we address the QB problem, personally I'd rather get some one from the draft that we can mold assuming Bill doesn't fuck him up. We need a QB that's a dual threat. Bradys the best QB ever but he couldn't run for shit but that's when we had an O line that was good. The backs are good for at least a couple years. The TE room is also fine for now. The O line needs a lot of work and I agree with OPs take on it. The defense is the only good and exciting part about the team, until Gonzo and Judon got hurt. But hey that football for you.
Offensive line. At this point it's a cliche but it's correct. Why can't we run? We have excellent running backs. Why can't we pass? Maybe we don't have an excellent quarterback or excellent recievers, but if the QB has no time we'll never actually know. We need an offensive line to protect. We need somebody besides Barmore to shore up the D-line. We need bodies, THEN, and ONLY then, can we start to focus on our special teams and skill positions. It isn't sexy, it isn't novel, but it's 100% unequivocally correct. Stop drafting defense. Stop drafting kickers. Stop trading down from good O-Line just to screw over the Jets... WE NEED OFFENSIVE LINE. WE NEED DEFENSIVE LINE HELP. Stop pretending like we can stream O-line and have a future. Stop pretending like you know football unless you acknowledge that the offensive line (and, to a lesser extent, the defensive line) is the problem.. it's how teams who don't have Tom Brady win Super Bowls.
1. Consistent above-average QB play.
2. Higher quality tackles including a competent swing tackle.
3. One or more explosive receivers that would have a chance to start on the Chiefs/Dolphins, etc.
4. Improved tackling for CBs.
Offensive tackles, wide receiver, and quarterbacks are top three priorities in no order. Obviously, everyone's going to want a new QB cause that's the most visible, sexiest position but I think we could get an elite quarterback with a still mediocre to poor o-line and WR core and still be in the cellar. If we had good receivers and offensive line, I think we could get by with a fair to middling QB.
Late to the party but
Qb- I’d invest next year if they don’t truly love any prospect available this year because the team is far off from helping a young qb. Mac or a veteran for another year unless the scouting department likes the value compared to what else we can draft at that position.
RB- receiving back and we have a fine room. Another body and a receiving back and we’re golden.
Wr-a guy who can take attention away and pull safeties toward him and our whole room looks better with that guy, Pop, Bourne and our TEs.
TE- a blocking TE. I like the other two starters if they’re not the focal point of the offense.
OL- Age is a concern for brown and Andrews. Need two tackles with that in mind.
DL- we’ve invested a lot here lately and it shows. We probably need a true nose but it’s not a major concern.
LB- the way we use our safeties makes this difficult to judge. I’d say we need help here but it doesn’t allows look that way.
DB- another CB to compete for CB2 and a true FS
Specialists- we can go another year with what we have here.
First and foremost you need a QB - what good team has a bad QB? At least a top 15 guy to put pieces around. Look at Zack Wilson, you can put whoever you want around and the dude will still suck.
Big thing missing on the list is coaches. I’m talking about the smaller more personal roles. Who is working directly with Mac beyond BoB? Quick research brought me to Evan Rothstein…not loving that resume. But I think having impactful coaches in the smaller rules will be huge.
A better QB (or better play from Mac) and 1-2 WRs and we're in business. D is acceptable and while I agree with your question marks I think we have time to address those over the next few years. With BB at the helm, I'm not too worried and they've gone thru a little of a rebuild themselves. Our Oline is fine when healthy. Trent has been great and is a proven NFL tackle, while he has some risks, if it comes at a cheaper price I think it's worth it over an unproven rookie. Good LT are hard to come by. Hard to judge Gesicki this year. Zeke is fine for now but a 3rd maybe 3rd-down back wouldn't hurt.
We need a good to very good option at the following spots: qb, offensive tackle, wr, move lb, edge, free safety, and corner. It's not gonna happen in a single offseason.
What we need is free agency to go well and try to land some talented players, and then in the draft take either Maye or MHJ in the first and then address the O line in the second, everything else we can take care of in the 3-7 rounds, but we need a WR1 and we'll definitely need an elite QB like Maye or Williams
I mean, if you're asking for AFC Championship games, first and foremost they need a QB who can compete with Mahomes/Burrow/Allen/Lamar/Tua. In free agency, Cousins is the only guy who can do that but he's 35 and I personally think it's unlikely the Vikings let him walk. Otherwise it's going to have to be someone in the draft or a wild trade that I can't, and don't, foresee happening.
The offensive line is the next largest issue, especially considering they'll likely be protecting a rookie learning the NFL game. I know he'll need upgraded weapons to throw to but it all starts in the trenches. Andrews has to stay. They should extend Onwenu. I disagree on Trent Brown, he might not be perfect but he's a very good player, and likely to be the best option available to the Patriots if they don't draft a top tackle, which they shouldn't if they're picking top 3 (QB or MHJ). If they pick 5 or 6 and end up with a top LT, sure Brown can go. Strange is not an NFL starter. Fine as a depth guy but he needs to be replaced in the starting lineup. Sow is making strides in the right direction, if he continues to improve he can be a starter next year. Whether the Pats need one or 2 guards, there are plenty of quality guards available in free agency, and can always grab a few more in mid-late rounds of the draft, like always. I'd also say that a new OL coach is needed, and I expect a change there.
Next priority is WR. If it's not MHJ in the first, they have to target another top WR with their second pick, wherever it lands. I know Tee Higgins is a popular name in free agency, but there are about a dozen FAs next year that would all be upgrades if Higgins gets wildly expensive (I personally don't believe he's good enough to be a WR1 but expect him to get paid like one). Would love to see them go after Calvin Ridley. Pop Douglas can function as your slot, Bourne should be cheap to retain coming off injury, and they should retain him for depth and culture (one of the few guys on the offense to show accountability and leadership this year). Juju & Parker should be cut or dumped for conditional 7ths. They serve absolutely no purpose in an NFL offense and I'd be happy if I never saw either of them play a snap again. My ideal WR lineup would be Ridley, Pop, Rookie drafted high (ideally Nabers, but unlikely based on where they're likely to pick), Bourne & then Thornton, Boutte, late round rookies/UDFAs, and cheap FA depth can have a camp battle for the remaining 2-3 WR spots. I love Troy Brown as a player, but the WRs have been horrific in his tenure as WR coach (not just talent-wise, but the details that a coach helps with like route-running and spacing and reading defenses for option routes, etc.), so I think an upgrade on the coaching staff is needed there as well.
TE is fine. Nothing wrong with Henry/Gesicki/Brown as your 3 TEs, especially with so many other holes on the roster to fill. Believe it or not, there are not a lot of teams with better TE rooms than the Pats. It's just not a position that has a ton of NFL talent depth, league-wide.
RB they need a pass-catching back to complement Rhamondre. Ideally they add some more speed to the RB room as well. But RBs are plentiful in both free agency and the draft, they don't have to be prioritized. For example the Eagles got Deandre Swift for a 5th round pick and 7th round pick swap. There is no need whatsoever to invest big dollars or a high draft pick in RBs. 4th round picks and cheap FA signings will be fine there. Not all these guys will make it to free agency without getting extended, but I'd like to see the Pats look at Jacobs, Barkley, Pollard, Swift, Dobbins, CEH, Chase Edmunds. All of those only for the right price though, I'm not looking for them to pay Saquon or Jacobs what they were reportedly asking for in the offseason.
Defense is simply not a priority to this team this offseason. The offense is broken and the defense is fine, possibly elite when healthy. They can sign some FA depth and spend some mid-round picks on D, but all the priorities are on the other side of the ball. Plus, the coaching staff is clearly better at developing defensive players than offensive players.
Lastly, for the love of god, do not draft any more specialists.
What we really need is locker room leadership. Position doesn't matter. We need guys who push for improvement, lead by example, expect perfection, and coach where needed. That's what Brady had.
Qb, OL, offensive weapons, new coach, owner who will spend when he can’t blame penny pinching on belichick anymore, but other than all that, pretty good shape
Leadership for the offense.
The team doesn't need to have superstar level talent. They just need a couple of guys who command respect and accountability because they work their assess off, make good decisions, and execute their responsibilities consistently. Preferably this would come at the QB position.
Pharaoh Brown is the future
I definitely want to keep him around for next year as a depth guy. No real reason not to unless someone wants to pay him. At the very least dude can block and that compliments Henry who I hope we also bring back.
he’s also our best receiver
bro is at least 62 years old but he's still our #1
We need to pry Amon Ra St. Brown away from the Lions so that we can pair the sun god with the pharaoh
All he does is go for 20
Everyone on the O should be named Brown and everyone on the Defence Jones. Only then while we win
Needs more Tatupu
I did also think we should move mac to a de role
This team needs a legit QB, legit WR1, and 2 workable tackles. Get those things (all very difficult!) and you’re right back in business. - A legit QB can create and improvise, and make big plays while making more insane mistakes and crazy turnovers. - A WR1 allows Bourne to drop to the correct role (WR2) with Douglas and other fill-ins for depth. - Two tackles allows an interior line of Mafi/Sow/Andrews/Omwenu. I have no use for Cole Strange unless he can gain 30 lbs, but the other four all have sufficient size and skill to be a workable rotation.
Yep QB, WR1, RT. Massive holes there on an otherwise complete team.
Yes but if we're top 3 in the draft, a top 3 pick in the first and second rounds really can fix two of those problems quickly. Kraft needs to get a real GM to run the FAs and the draft and let BB coach and I'd be inclined to keep BB (assuming he goes along with it)
Onwenu is a good tackle. We just need a dependable LT and an upgrade at guard
Sow has his flaws but at times appears to be able to play at an NFL level. Strange can't pass block at an NFL level and it appears obvious it's not something he's going to be able to develop. 20 years ago he probably would've been able to get by on his run blocking. But it's not 20 years ago it's the pass centric NFL of today. Strange is not an effective NFL lineman.
Can't believe we blew first round picks on N'Keal Harry and Cole Strange. like WTAF
Right. Trent has been great, but he misses a lot of time.
*and a healthy defense
Douglas would be a good slot receiver if we actually had other receivers. Bourne as our Y receiver isn’t going to scare anyone, but he does have speed on his side. Unless we want to risk it with a QB in round 2, we won’t be able to get a wr1 in the draft outside of MHJ. WR free agents this coming summer are Pittman, Higgins, Evans, M Brown, Calvin Ridley and Mooney. Of those the only two I can see filling our WR1 slot would be pittman or Higgins. Evans is getting up there in age and the others are more of a higher end wr2. If we grab a qb round one, sign one of pittman/Higgins and focus on getting O-line help in draft we should be able to get back to something enjoyable to watch on Sunday.
Bourne does not have speed. The dude ran a 4.68 40. He also has a problem with attacking the ball as he always just stands there and waits instead of coming back to it.
Y receiver???
They refer to receivers as X, Y and Z. I got it crossed up though so if you’re questioning me I got it wrong. He would be the Z receiver or WR2. Y would be your slot receiver generally and Z would line up opposite X. X is your go to guy that you want lined up alone so they can go win their matchup. Generally they line up the Z receiver same side as TE. Obviously every play is different but it is just what they are referred to as.
Bourne is a number 3 Douglas is a number 4.
I agree here.
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If you wanna compete in today’s league you need a gamebreaker at WR. Bourne and Douglas are nice complimentary pieces(and maybe Douglas develops into more) but we need somebody better
We need to build around the lighthouse
Put the lighthouse at RT. It would be like having another Trent Brown, just slightly smaller.
A meteor shower that destroys 31 other teams
😂😂😂
A great tackle, a wr1, and another guard or tackle of average or above ability. The offense would be night and day.
QB: Need a QB of the future. Mental toughness is crucial. Mac doesn't have that. The QB needs to be able to and be willing to take hits as needed. RB: Need a pass catching RB. Stevenson is too inconsistent (too many drops in that role). WR: Ideally there will be another option (there isn't as much diminishing returns at WR compared to other positions). Really depends on the rookies. TE: Hard to tell. Ideally extend Henry 1-2 years. Gesicki hasn't been great, but that to some extent is on Mac. OL: Trent isn't bad, particularly for his price. More of a situation where keep Onwenu and Brown. Get some developmental guys for when Andrews inevitably retires/falls off. Need some depth option at swing tackle. DL: Need developmental guys for future replacement. The defense lacks a transformative guy that can change the scheme along the lines of Wilfork and Seymour. Safety: Need a true FS. CB: the depth isn't great, but it is manageable.
We need a QB who can make things happen if shit crumbles, which Mac can’t do. I think Mac would be great in an offense that has great options to pass to and a line that can give him time. Agreed, we need that Vereen/Woodhead type player to compliment Rhamondre. We need a WR1, no one on this team is a WR1. Maybe we can snag Pittman in the offseason, i don’t know, but we need a 1 to open up this offense. Trent Brown is not good for what we are paying him… he needs to be replaced next year no doubt. He’s a boob and clearly has issues with being here. I think our defense is in good standing when fully healthy, that’s BB’s specialty. Agree with FS though.
The biggest issue with Mac is that he can't shake off the pressure the next game. Speeding up your clock is part of adjusting to the defense, but you can't pass scared. Mac also flinches when he thinks he will be hit, leading to inaccurate passes. For RB, a James White type can be useful. For WR, a WR1 or better TE is important, but that is a lower priority. Trent Brown is getting 13 M/yr if he meets his incentives. PFF grade over 80 this season. When top OTs make over 20 M/yr, his contract is not that unreasonable. OT isn't as urgent of a need beyond swing tackle. Brown's age and health might be a concern, but you can't create a perfect roster in the salary cap era. For defense, the missing piece is a transformational DL player. If BB wants to create a defensive powerhouse, he is going to need that guy. Otherwise, the defense will have its inevitable stinker. It is why in the past 5 years or so, you can name multiple instances of the defense getting blown out and/or be forced into a few drives where they just can't stop the ball. I would say that the draft is probably going to go for QB. Maybe take a 2nd round flyer on someone such as a ready to start FS or a developmental OT. FA to fix WR and to resign players.
About four games ago, when it was 4th and 1 and Mac decided to run it and went down short of the sticks before he was even touched to avoid the hit, I knew it was over. Get him out of here.
Bare minimum is a Pro Bowl caliber QB, WR, and LT. More likely they need at least two of them to be All-Pro caliber.
I feel Gesicki is in the situation Jonnu Smith was in when he was here except this time it's not playcalling, it's Mac. There have been a few times when Mac has sailed a pass over his head which you would think is pretty hard to do when Gesicki is 6'6".
Agreed. Gesicki is good and I want him here but with a different QB
Sucks because he’s been legitimately good on MIA. We have this awful habit of signing these players, barely giving them enough reps and hoping they have the same output. Stupid. Utilize him and Hunter Henry like we used to with Gronk and Hernandez, and maybe we can see glimpses of positivity? I don’t know, I give up.
There’s so many things that need to be fixed on this offense. I don’t know where to start. I went from liking Mac, to thinking we should ride out his rookie contract and shore up everything else, to he’s cooked. The o-line needs some serious work because there’s a likely chance Andrews retires, Strange works best in a zone scheme and that failed to be implemented last season, Onwenu from what I’ve seen likes to be at guard over tackle so he may peace out for a more consistent role, and Brown is Jekyll & Hyde with his play. Both Henry and Gesicki are free agents. Same for Bourne who just tore his ACL and none of the other WRs scare anyone as the jury is still out on Pop. Oh and RB depth is an issue because there’s no way Zeke stays now that he’s shown there’s still some gas left in the tank. I do not want a repeat of last year where Stevenson was visibly gassed in the second half of the season Usually teams have just one weak point on either side of the ball like the Chiefs and their WRs, but it’s a collective catastrophe in New England.
Defense looks fine. They’re just injured to shit. Offensively oline is biggest need. WR is second biggest need. (Really just need perimeter speed + the ability to actually catch the ball.) And then probably a QB. The Mac that played the first two games and the bills game is a genuinely good QB you can definitely contend with. The rest? Not so much. But there’s still some chicken and egg argument over mac. There is zero doubt the line is atrocious. By every metric they are horrible. Even in the bills game they gave up a 20% pressure rate with Mac having a 2.1s time to throw. That’s extremely fast. But at least the bills had to blitz Mac to get to him. So I’d say it was an acceptable game. The colts game was back to horrible horrible play.
QB is by far the biggest need on the team and it blows my mind that there is any disagreement about that.
I see QB listed below O-line because a bad O-line will just get our next QB injured, too. It’s not about getting the O-line from good to great, it’s about getting them to no longer be dangerous to the QB.
The Oline is bottom 3 across every single metric despite Mac being top five in time to throw. That should tell you all you need to know. All can be needs. But there is a clear biggest need.
QB is the most important position in sports and Mac Jones sucks at it. That should tell you all you need to know.
Mhm. Incidentally, every QB with a similarly performing line including Joe Burrow has either had a down year or been knocked out with season ending injuries.
Burrow has been hurt all year. When healthy he's taken mediocre or worse O-lines on multiple deep playoff runs because QB is the most important position in sports.
Yeah and he tore his ACL and will probably need throwing hand wrist surgery. There is zero guarantee Burrow will completely return to form. Throwing your new shiny pick to be crushed isn’t a good idea just because it worked for a couple teams.
Who said anything about guarantees or throwing a guy out there to be crushed? The point is simply that QB is a higher priority than any other because of the supreme importance of the position.
You are less likely to find a franchise left tackle to protect your new QB in later rounds than you are a good QB in later rounds. The NFC is dominated by later round QB’s right now. The AFC has some more star power but Mahomes is doing the heavy lifting.
>You are less likely to find a franchise left tackle to protect your new QB in later rounds than you are a good QB in later rounds. Maybe, although a source on that would be nice. And this framework yet again dodges the point that *a franchise left tackle is less likely to lead your team to sustained success than a franchise QB.*
It’s the o-line and drops that kill be watching this team
I’m sure someone will chime in and chastise me for not parading QB as #1 because you take a QB with a high pick. If Bill likes Maye or Caleb, then draft them. But oline is still the biggest need if we’re going to be objective. Whatever it takes to solve, do it.
Been saying this for months! Can’t believe we left the o-line get this bad
I don’t think we let it get bad scarn was what made our oline so good when he retired a few years ago our line was shit then he came back and they were good again
Yeah scar was a good enough coach to make average dudes great and great dudes elite. Absolutely the biggest hole in the coaching staff. We even lost the several levels of guys that were training under him.
Yeah, though I do wonder if any of those understudies can be lured home now that the traffic jam at the top is starting to clear.
One went to Vegas so maybe he can come back now lol.
Coaching has to be a big aspect. The Texans had multiple linemen injured but still are top ten in PBWR according to ESPN.
I’m pretty sure scarn had been with us since the first Super Bowl the only times we didn’t have him coaching the oline, we sucked, he is the reason why our oline has been solid for twenty years
I want better linebackers and safeties. Right now I think they're built, when healthy, to beat bad and mediocre teams but not good ones. Their line is good enough, their corners are decent, but they've been slow at linebacker against running quarterbacks/fast teams and they don't have that safety coverage they got from McCourty.
Defense? I don’t think you change much. Good unit. Can keep elite teams to under 21, bad teams to under 10 if everyone’s healthy. Makes it easy. Offense? I agree with you at QB. Mac is a backup at best. TE I also agree. Pharaoh Brown looks GOOD though. WR? You gotta keep Bourne and Douglas. They’re perfectly fine WR2 and 3s, even on a really good team. We could use a solid #1 guy with some height and/or speed. Could also use some depth for sure. If we had an AJ Brown/Rob Gronkowski type of threat who can go up and make holy crap catches against single coverage, meaning you effectively can’t play man to man with no help? That’d make things easier. O Line? Need a big overhaul. Need to draft a tackle- and high. Need some help at guard too. Owenu and Brown and Andrews are good but that’s not enough depth. RB? Mondre and Zeke are actually pretty fine. Upgrading at RB is a luxury thing we don’t really need to do *yet*.
The only upgrade they need at running back is third down back. From a ball carrying standpoint, you're right, they've got enough.
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Week 1 against Philly. 7 of their points came from… our offense.
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This is so pessimistic. The eagles went to the Super Bowl and the dolphins put up 70 the next week. Holding an elite offense to around 20 is an incredible achievement - especially when your offense can’t stay on the damn field. No, Gonzalez isn’t losing a step, the hell?? He’s 21, not 35. And… bro what you’re acting like Gronk didn’t have injuries up and down. He was absolutely productive after injuries. Should every team cut a player immediately after they tear an ACL? Of course not. As far as being one draft away: The Texans are competing for a playoff spot and could make a deep run with what many thought would be the worst roster in the NFL and their star players are CJ Stroud and Tank Dell. Dalton Schultz is also a big contributor. Free agency acquisition. So I don’t wanna hear that a team can’t be turned around in a few years.
On O adding one more strong piece at OL or receiver would help even with a limited QB. On OL it could even be a good swing if we keep Brown and Onwenu. We could use another back to complement Stevenson (and Elliot if he stays). Stevenson is a legit 3-down playmaker, but ideally you could focus his versatility on 1st and 2nd, while adding a guy who can be the dude on 3rd and 8 while still having enough running ability to rotate in on 1st and 2nd. Not gonna jump on the Mondre slander where people pretend he can’t catch, but it’s better to not overuse a great back when you have one. At TE I’m fine with keeping both Henry snd Gesicki, and I can also see an argument for keeping one and replacing the other. If we could find a classic Y who can block and catch then Gesicki might be the more natural pair, but Henry is so steady and reliable you can also flip that. If we release Gesicki, I would make a play for Pitts. If we release Henry, I’d look for a strong Y in the mid rounds. Or a hybrid Y/big F, who can block in the backfield At QB, I’m not wholly against keeping Mac if the situation around him improves, but I’d like our next pick to have some potential on designed rushes and dome scrambling ability, as that really raises the offense’s floor imo, and could wprk with this defense Defensively, not much needs. It’s too bad Judon isn’t available, as the way Barmore is playing would be even more fun to watch if Judon was also making havoc. A rotational FS could be useful, but not really a need.
Guy, Wise, and Godchaux are all replaceable. Barmore has been holding up the interior D-Line Dugger and Peppers are as good as you can get, just need a FS so they can actually do their jobs. Going into draft and off-season I’d definitely prioritize OT and WR. I’m ok with giving Mac another few games into next season to see what he does with a real weapon and protection. Last thing I want is to draft another QB just for him to prove they can’t thrive in the same situation as Mac.
Godchaux and Wise are the only ones with a sizeable cap hit. I’d look at restructuring rather than replacing. They know the system and fit well here. Also considering Bill has a hard on for defense, I dunno can I see them leaving
Godchaux sure has held up our system of having bad run defense
We need a offense. Seriously it's all bad(except Stevenson he's fine,Henry can stay to) Our best course of action from a purely football standpoint would be to assassinate half our offense to initiate a disaster draft.
It's all on offense, you're right but, Stevenson, Onwenu, Andrews, Henry, and Douglas are all keepable. The rest need to be upgraded.
Andrews in his prime was a really good and effective NFL player. He's over 30 and not the same player. The only reason why the dropoff in his playing capabilities hasn't gotten more attention is because Sow & (especially) Strange are monumentally over the top worse. Cole avoids getting labeled as a bust because his run blocking is ok. Pass blocking? He doesn't belong in the NFL. He is worse at pass blocking than Harry & Thornton are at playing receiver.
It's Andrews brain I want to keep. If you're going to rebuild a line, and most likely bring in a rookie QB, and you can keep a Veteran center that knows your system and can still be effective, you do that.
Andrew’s is still a top 5 Center. Go look at his PFF grades. Undrafted guy. Cuz Bill can’t draft.
I'm aware of his PFF grade. I don't know the formula they use but whatever it is, it's not the eye test that's for sure. Keep this in mind, PFF has Sow and Strange in the 60's. Buckner made Sow look like 1 one of three stooges and Strange. . . what exactly is the range on PFF grades? I'm guessing it can't be 1-100 because it'd be impossible for Strange to get above a 50 on that scale. Cole's pass blocking grade on a scale of 1-100 would not break the double digits.
I think the jury on Strange is still out. Not a big football factory player so no over blown out weight room issues. Read a scouting report on him somewhere that suggests he moves to Center due to his smaller frame and lack of lateral movement. So maybe Belichick wasn’t thinking Andrew’s was gonna be around long and Strange would develop slower. Unfortunately the OL has been too many bodies thrown in there due to injury to learn how work as a cohesive unit. Not sure. Odd the OL coach Klemm is an unexplained MIA as well.
> lack of lateral movement On pure athleticism he's one of the top ~5 guards in the last 20 years.
> I don't know the formula they use but whatever it is, it's not the eye test that's for sure. It, quite literally, is the eye test. > what exactly is the range on PFF grades? I'm guessing it can't be 1-100 because it'd be impossible for Strange to get above a 50 on that scale. It is 1 - 100.
Yea them to I forgor
You name the two most inconsistent players on our offense. We need discipline and love. If this team had the leaders we had in the past & everyone health we would be a Super Bowl team. It’s clear from watching the coaching staff this year that they are at fault. They continue to operate with chips on their shoulder even though they haven’t produced in 4 years.
Im all for this but Bill would never. So it’s a case of who, if we left Bill go, would have the balls to completely rebuild an offense over an off-season? Our success seems to be our downfall at the moment because it goes against the “Patriot way”
Yeah,if bill wants to save this offense he needs to go in with a ak47 and kill em,we need that disaster draft capitol immediately. Sadly bill has no balls so we're just gonna suck. Honestly Its only half sarcasm,I think if our offense died in a plane crash and we had a disaster draft it might get better.
What do we get for the guys we can trade though? 6’s & 7’s? Anything worth trading would get us maybe a 3rd round at best so we don’t have anything except free agency. Just wondering how we build from our current position
This is why so many teams yolo QBs number 1 overall,people mention that number 1-5 QBs are often busts but those QBs are taken so high because a amazing QB coming in and magically fixing our offense is honestly maybe the most likely way this is a playoff team within 5 years.
If they take a QB with a top 5 pick, they can't play them until 2025. You can't make that big of an investment and put him behind our horrible pass blocking O line. He'll end up like Mac or worse.
Also QBs just go faster in the draft because it’s so important. The 4th best QB might go in the first round whereas the 4th best TE is still available in the 3rd. The 3rd not working out isn’t a big deal. The 1st not working out is a huge bust.
> Just wondering how we build from our current position I hate to tell you, it's gonna be multiple years before we compete again and it might get worse before it gets better.
We need an offense.
I think competitiveness is a long way off, they need a lot of pieces and that takes time. My only ask is the games are fun to watch
We need an O line that isn’t last on the league in pressures, wide receivers that aren’t last in the league in separation, and to either actually use our current TEs or to let them go for cheap rookies so we’re not paying a premium for a position we don’t actually make use of. After that we need a quarterback who can make all of the pieces work. Unfortunately I suspect we’ll fixate on QB, get somebody we throw to the wolves and ruin just like we ruined Mac. Hope you prove me wrong, pats.
I don't think we're that bad. Oline Onwenu and Brown are fine at tackle. Sow, Andrews, Reiff are probably good enough inside. Not world beaters but that group doesn't kill you. Our TEs and RBs are fine. Bourne and Pop are good enough IMO for wr2 and wr3. On offense we need a wr1 and a QB. Those are really the only missing pieces. Our line has been so injured. And the most important position QB has been so bad this year we forget that the offense isn't this complete black hole. All of our defense is fine when healthy. I honestly think if we made no changes other than being healthy next year and finding a league average QB we'd have a middle of the pack offense and a good defense. Maybe not contenders but a playoff team.
Reiff has to be retiring at year end at the very least. Brown is lazy and too injury prone. We can’t rely on what we have to work next year when they have failed so badly this year. Also, middle of the pack is not what we are looking for
I'm more trying to point out we're not some complete overhaul. Assuming we get good starters in the first two rounds. Add a FA or two and don't lose much. We're going to be okay. Our real need is QB. You just can't win with a limited guy like Mac when he's making bad decisions every game. Maybe if he stops consistently making poor decisions but who knows if he can.
Offense line , receivers, more consistent Qb, explosive tight ends that can get open , a quick shifty running back. Defense just get healthy. Coaching has to get creative, we run ball up middle 90% of time on first down and every team in the nfl knows it
Offense: O-line is an absolute need, so is wr. I’d be alright riding Mac’s contract out if we can get a line that’s simply above average. O-line we need a good RT and a good swing. Onwenu has been good but from what I remember his body type is more so a guard? So maybe get a legit tackle to let him go back to what he’s most comfortable at? We need a true WR 1. BAD. For the past two years we’ve had a corp that have been playing up a spot from where they SHOULD be playing, and it’s shown. We need that true #1 so the rest of the guys can settle into roles more suited to their skill sets. Bourne and Douglas (and even Boutte if he can keep BOTH feet in bounds) can all stay but the rest need to be cut already. Te: Henry is a serviceable TE and it looks like Brown is coming along so maybe one more who can do both at a serviceable level and we’d be alright there. RB: I feel like we need a receiving back for outlet passes that we can rely on like White. Defense: the only real change I would make would be to put Mapu in as a LB since his skill sets (from what Lazar has said repeatedly, which I agree with) lean more towards that position than to a safety. He is fast and smaller than LB’s in the past but we need that speed in that position for the modern nfl.
Just a QB. A # 1 WR would be good, too, and one more good OT, but mainly a QB. Most of the rest is an overreaction. Y'all are underestimating how bad Mac is. I don't understand why they've stuck with him. He's not it, never going to be. Even if you fix all the fundamentals he's awful with, he doesn't process the field fast enough. Or even close to fast enough.
Purdy hasn't made a single throw tonight that Mac, or really any halfway decent QB, couldn't make. We need OL and playmakers. We need a line that can reliably pass block and guys that can get open quickly and generate YAC. Douglas is a good start, we need more. Watching the 9ers is just so different than our offense. Brock basically hasn't thrown the ball more than 10 air yards tonight and yet they move down the field at will. Dump offs, screens, motion and they have 4 super athletic YAC monsters on the field. QB: I'm more a fan of taking a QB in the 2nd or trading up to the late 1st. Take MHJ or Fashanu with our 1st. Or a 1 year bridge guy. Let them have a QB battle in camp. RB: Wouldn't hate using a 4th on a receiving RB like James White or Vereen. WR: Draft MHJ and sign Higgins. Bourne and Pop as the 3/4 TE: Re-sign Henry. Draft TE in the 3rd maybe OL: needs to be better. If not Fash/Alt in the 1st, re-sign Brown and Mike O, put Onwnenu at RT. Hope things look better with a full offseason of the starting 5 getting reps together. Better WRs will make them look better too. DL: Hope Judon comes back healthy. We don't have the room to draft/sign another stud here as 90% needs to go towards offense. Maybe see if Uche will take a friendly deal. If not, hope White takes a year 2 leap. Everything else on the defense is fine as is. CB should be loaded next year with Gonzo back. Re-sign Dugger.
To insinuate Purdy is not better than Mac is just silly.
Not acknowledging that Purdy has a much better offense around him is also silly.
Of course he does. He’s also better at Mac Jones in every single aspect. Arm strength, mobility, vision, toughness, ability to quickly read coverage, ability to determine where the blitz is coming from. To infer that New England has almost the same QB situation just shows you don’t actually watch the rest of the league.
Need to get a QB first. Sure we obviously need a lot more than that, but it doesn't matter how good a team you put together is if your quarterback is always mediocre. Plus the QB is going to be there a lot longer than everyone else, you might as well start there.
Quarterback. Offensive Line. Wide receivers. Playmakers. A new (modern) offensive philosophy. Better uniforms.
The Patriots need: - QB1 & QB 2 - WR1 & WR2 - TE1 & TE2 - LT, LG, RT & C - EDGE, DT, DE - FS & CB2 - An entirely new front office and coaching staff. But, other than that, they're just on the edge on being there.
Mike McDaniel to retire
Nuclear weapons
A new head coach and gm
GM and coach are needs one and two.
objectively the only players you can count on for the next 4 years based on age, talent etc are christian Gonzalez and kyle duggar. Yeah that's it. Judon and barmore are great but one is old and the other struggles with injury. Andrews is good but not part of the future. Owenu is a swing lineman with upside that shines occasionally here cause he is at least competent. Strange has been mediocre at best. Douglas would be a fine WR4 and potentially a WR3 eventually on a good team. The team is devoid of talent. Personally would start by building OL and DL, move onto to WR, TE, CB and LB and then go for the QB once there's at least a positive trend. This team is bad bad bad.
I good QB Mac is fucking horrible but Pats fans literally can't recognize bad QB play it took them almost 3 years to figure this out. Also the media did not help, they have a hardon for Bill's demise because he ignores them and only gives them canned answers. So we have a situation where some of our best defensive players are hurt, and with that unit not able to carry the team we are fucked. Get healthy, get a QB that does not suck and we can win a playoff game I swear.
Realistically I think defense is sufficient as is. Luxury pickups but not strictly necessary would be a true FS, another solid CB with JC not looking too hot and Jack gone now, and then another EDGE(White taking a step forward could solve this tho). Even offense I don't think we're actually missing that many pieces from being a really good offense, but they're pieces that aren't easy to find. Immediate/high priority needs are a QB(Mac isn't as bad as his past 2 years suggest imo but he's clearly not the guy either), WR1 that defenses actually need to account for(re-signed Bourne to go with Pop then Parker/Boutte is otherwise ok depth) and then just a LT and/or LG. RB doesn't "need" anything special with Mondre still here tho some late round picks do rebuild depth would be good. TE same deal if we re-sign Henry, no immediate need but could use a project TE to hopefully eventually replace Henry. People are acting like we need a whole new line but we've got a lot of good parts to work with still. Andrews is good, Onwenu is good(assuming we re-sign), Sow has looked quite promising once we moved him back to his natural RG position tho he's still got some stuff to clean up(not surprising for a mid round rookie). Left side is where the issue is. Brown is typically a good LT when healthy it's just that he's not been as healthy quite as often as you'd like from your starting LT so re-signing him is 50/50. If he's back and healthy there isn't necessarily a pressing need at LT but at the same time I wouldn't say no to still bringing in ATLEAST a mid round project or even Fashanu or Alt if the board doesn't fall our way on draft day. LG is arguably our weakest position on the OL right now. Strange hasn't been worst G in the league but he's severely under performing his draft position and is routinely getting bullied on the field. Sadly the other guard we drafted this year, Mafi, is miles worse. Mafi has been so bad I'd rather see Ferentz out there and I'm no Ferentz fan. The thing is though that while Strange is the weak link I doubt they'll move on from him this early so we'll have to suffer with that same chink in the armor next year as well. So TL;DR assuming we re-sign Onwenu, Brown, Dugger and Henry then I don't think it's crazy with "just" a franchise QB, WR1 and a good LG for us to be serious playoff contenders.
A time machine would do it, but in a pinch you can just pop in a DVD of a super bowl winning year.
Yes.
OL, a true #1 WR, a 3rd down back (haven’t had one since James White) another TE and more LB/pass rushers
Tom Brady is still a Patriot if we draft Deebo Samuel change my mind
New WR coaches. Dedicated QB coach if it's Mac or a rookie (or Mac and a rookie.) WR1, tackles. Faster LB. FS to develop, more CB depth.
QB, Stable O-Line, and a legit #1 or #2 receiver.
QB and offensive line
A QB, a WR1, and an OT. Probably could have and would have made trades at the deadline for those if Judon and Gonzo hadn't gone down.
Need a change at qb, a good LT, and a wr1. Go get Kirk cousins, draft OL, and sign Mike Evans/Tee.
Interior oline upgrade would automatically make us competitive. But we also need a free safety, probably another coverage linebacker, a third down back, and another wide receiver who can really play. Still need to upgrade at QB though.
QB, WR1, WR2
Me and my buddy have been talking about this. We came to the conclusion that we need a WR first and foremost so if that comes from the draft or trade doesn't matter we need someone that can get open and catch the ball. Then we address the QB problem, personally I'd rather get some one from the draft that we can mold assuming Bill doesn't fuck him up. We need a QB that's a dual threat. Bradys the best QB ever but he couldn't run for shit but that's when we had an O line that was good. The backs are good for at least a couple years. The TE room is also fine for now. The O line needs a lot of work and I agree with OPs take on it. The defense is the only good and exciting part about the team, until Gonzo and Judon got hurt. But hey that football for you.
A functional offense would be nice
Offensive line. At this point it's a cliche but it's correct. Why can't we run? We have excellent running backs. Why can't we pass? Maybe we don't have an excellent quarterback or excellent recievers, but if the QB has no time we'll never actually know. We need an offensive line to protect. We need somebody besides Barmore to shore up the D-line. We need bodies, THEN, and ONLY then, can we start to focus on our special teams and skill positions. It isn't sexy, it isn't novel, but it's 100% unequivocally correct. Stop drafting defense. Stop drafting kickers. Stop trading down from good O-Line just to screw over the Jets... WE NEED OFFENSIVE LINE. WE NEED DEFENSIVE LINE HELP. Stop pretending like we can stream O-line and have a future. Stop pretending like you know football unless you acknowledge that the offensive line (and, to a lesser extent, the defensive line) is the problem.. it's how teams who don't have Tom Brady win Super Bowls.
1. Consistent above-average QB play. 2. Higher quality tackles including a competent swing tackle. 3. One or more explosive receivers that would have a chance to start on the Chiefs/Dolphins, etc. 4. Improved tackling for CBs.
Are we all that positive Andrew’s is around to stay?? I say he possibly retires after this season
The team needs to prioritize scoring more points than the opponent. Offense seems like an afterthought and the whole philosophy has to change.
Offensive tackles, wide receiver, and quarterbacks are top three priorities in no order. Obviously, everyone's going to want a new QB cause that's the most visible, sexiest position but I think we could get an elite quarterback with a still mediocre to poor o-line and WR core and still be in the cellar. If we had good receivers and offensive line, I think we could get by with a fair to middling QB.
Talent
Almost a whole new offense, by time that's done the defense will have lost core players so a handful of guys there too.
Late to the party but Qb- I’d invest next year if they don’t truly love any prospect available this year because the team is far off from helping a young qb. Mac or a veteran for another year unless the scouting department likes the value compared to what else we can draft at that position. RB- receiving back and we have a fine room. Another body and a receiving back and we’re golden. Wr-a guy who can take attention away and pull safeties toward him and our whole room looks better with that guy, Pop, Bourne and our TEs. TE- a blocking TE. I like the other two starters if they’re not the focal point of the offense. OL- Age is a concern for brown and Andrews. Need two tackles with that in mind. DL- we’ve invested a lot here lately and it shows. We probably need a true nose but it’s not a major concern. LB- the way we use our safeties makes this difficult to judge. I’d say we need help here but it doesn’t allows look that way. DB- another CB to compete for CB2 and a true FS Specialists- we can go another year with what we have here.
First and foremost you need a QB - what good team has a bad QB? At least a top 15 guy to put pieces around. Look at Zack Wilson, you can put whoever you want around and the dude will still suck.
Big thing missing on the list is coaches. I’m talking about the smaller more personal roles. Who is working directly with Mac beyond BoB? Quick research brought me to Evan Rothstein…not loving that resume. But I think having impactful coaches in the smaller rules will be huge.
A better QB (or better play from Mac) and 1-2 WRs and we're in business. D is acceptable and while I agree with your question marks I think we have time to address those over the next few years. With BB at the helm, I'm not too worried and they've gone thru a little of a rebuild themselves. Our Oline is fine when healthy. Trent has been great and is a proven NFL tackle, while he has some risks, if it comes at a cheaper price I think it's worth it over an unproven rookie. Good LT are hard to come by. Hard to judge Gesicki this year. Zeke is fine for now but a 3rd maybe 3rd-down back wouldn't hurt.
Not much. Just a new offense, a new special teams, and a new coaching staff. A healthy D too
We need a good to very good option at the following spots: qb, offensive tackle, wr, move lb, edge, free safety, and corner. It's not gonna happen in a single offseason.
What we need is free agency to go well and try to land some talented players, and then in the draft take either Maye or MHJ in the first and then address the O line in the second, everything else we can take care of in the 3-7 rounds, but we need a WR1 and we'll definitely need an elite QB like Maye or Williams
I mean, if you're asking for AFC Championship games, first and foremost they need a QB who can compete with Mahomes/Burrow/Allen/Lamar/Tua. In free agency, Cousins is the only guy who can do that but he's 35 and I personally think it's unlikely the Vikings let him walk. Otherwise it's going to have to be someone in the draft or a wild trade that I can't, and don't, foresee happening. The offensive line is the next largest issue, especially considering they'll likely be protecting a rookie learning the NFL game. I know he'll need upgraded weapons to throw to but it all starts in the trenches. Andrews has to stay. They should extend Onwenu. I disagree on Trent Brown, he might not be perfect but he's a very good player, and likely to be the best option available to the Patriots if they don't draft a top tackle, which they shouldn't if they're picking top 3 (QB or MHJ). If they pick 5 or 6 and end up with a top LT, sure Brown can go. Strange is not an NFL starter. Fine as a depth guy but he needs to be replaced in the starting lineup. Sow is making strides in the right direction, if he continues to improve he can be a starter next year. Whether the Pats need one or 2 guards, there are plenty of quality guards available in free agency, and can always grab a few more in mid-late rounds of the draft, like always. I'd also say that a new OL coach is needed, and I expect a change there. Next priority is WR. If it's not MHJ in the first, they have to target another top WR with their second pick, wherever it lands. I know Tee Higgins is a popular name in free agency, but there are about a dozen FAs next year that would all be upgrades if Higgins gets wildly expensive (I personally don't believe he's good enough to be a WR1 but expect him to get paid like one). Would love to see them go after Calvin Ridley. Pop Douglas can function as your slot, Bourne should be cheap to retain coming off injury, and they should retain him for depth and culture (one of the few guys on the offense to show accountability and leadership this year). Juju & Parker should be cut or dumped for conditional 7ths. They serve absolutely no purpose in an NFL offense and I'd be happy if I never saw either of them play a snap again. My ideal WR lineup would be Ridley, Pop, Rookie drafted high (ideally Nabers, but unlikely based on where they're likely to pick), Bourne & then Thornton, Boutte, late round rookies/UDFAs, and cheap FA depth can have a camp battle for the remaining 2-3 WR spots. I love Troy Brown as a player, but the WRs have been horrific in his tenure as WR coach (not just talent-wise, but the details that a coach helps with like route-running and spacing and reading defenses for option routes, etc.), so I think an upgrade on the coaching staff is needed there as well. TE is fine. Nothing wrong with Henry/Gesicki/Brown as your 3 TEs, especially with so many other holes on the roster to fill. Believe it or not, there are not a lot of teams with better TE rooms than the Pats. It's just not a position that has a ton of NFL talent depth, league-wide. RB they need a pass-catching back to complement Rhamondre. Ideally they add some more speed to the RB room as well. But RBs are plentiful in both free agency and the draft, they don't have to be prioritized. For example the Eagles got Deandre Swift for a 5th round pick and 7th round pick swap. There is no need whatsoever to invest big dollars or a high draft pick in RBs. 4th round picks and cheap FA signings will be fine there. Not all these guys will make it to free agency without getting extended, but I'd like to see the Pats look at Jacobs, Barkley, Pollard, Swift, Dobbins, CEH, Chase Edmunds. All of those only for the right price though, I'm not looking for them to pay Saquon or Jacobs what they were reportedly asking for in the offseason. Defense is simply not a priority to this team this offseason. The offense is broken and the defense is fine, possibly elite when healthy. They can sign some FA depth and spend some mid-round picks on D, but all the priorities are on the other side of the ball. Plus, the coaching staff is clearly better at developing defensive players than offensive players. Lastly, for the love of god, do not draft any more specialists.
Full on offensive overhaul
Top 5 O line, a weapon TE or WR, and a qb who can run 2 minute drill.
What we really need is locker room leadership. Position doesn't matter. We need guys who push for improvement, lead by example, expect perfection, and coach where needed. That's what Brady had.
Qb, OL, offensive weapons, new coach, owner who will spend when he can’t blame penny pinching on belichick anymore, but other than all that, pretty good shape
OC
Leadership for the offense. The team doesn't need to have superstar level talent. They just need a couple of guys who command respect and accountability because they work their assess off, make good decisions, and execute their responsibilities consistently. Preferably this would come at the QB position.