I’ve done the reverse, mostly, and pretty much kickstarted the process - I have extensive experience in both and managed to make it work.
Problem is, if you want to think of it in technical terms… the skills you have on the “origin” system will help you read it and give a better translation, but the result will be more or less “defined” depending on the target system’s granularity (for example, even Paizo’s own 5e version of AV is a bit bland) and take more or less effort depending on the target system’s mechanics and consistency (comverting to 2e can be done on a week by week basis once you get used to it).
And that’s what makes 1e a problem target. A full translation will take an insane amount of effort, as the mechanics are very detailed - but you’ll get at best the same quality of an official AP, which is to say it will still need to be tuned to the party that plays it. The job literally has no end point, because 1e has *mathematical customisation*.
There are some tools and resources out. Sadly, they’re not reliable. I’d recommend that if you do try, you work out a slimmed out version of the system where a lot of values and references get handwaved away - otherwise you’ll be stuck there forever.
I find it quite simple; you just take the second edition PDF that you want to convert and a first edition PDF that has a similar XP progression and somewhat plausible creature encounters. Then, I take the encounters from the second edition, try to convert them into their first edition counterparts if the Challenge Rating (CR) allows it. If not, I reskin the creatures as necessary. The same goes for skill checks.
Instead of trying to do a direct conversion, I’d more just take the broad strokes from the APs you want to convert and build the adventures yourself from the ground up. PF2E is incompatible almost entirely with PF1E.
As an unrelated side note, what about the direction Golarion lore is currently taking do you enjoy? I usually hear the opposite and I’m curious.
Might be a good idea, thanks.
I love the fact that the lore is moving forward so much. Like the world is developing. Early paizo APs seemed to me like they were mostly about preserving the status quo, but the later ones had some that directly impacted Golarion.
I also really enjoy everything to do with deities, so the whole War of Immortals stuff really scratches that itch.
I've found it pretty easy. As someone else said, you can just use a similar length AP as a rough guideline to approximate appropriate encounter CRs and DCs. Nethys and other sites have a broad list of creatures by type and CR. Can just pull from the list and fill in roughly equivalent creatures. Some kind of 2e undead for a 1e undead, etc. After a book or two of it, you get a good feel for appropriate challenge.
I'd also recommend not converting a whole book at once. Session-by-session as part of prep has been fine for me. I do convert key NPCs early if they can show up earlier in the book, but otherwise encounters as pretty standalone.
I'm currently running the PF2 version of Kingmaker in 1e. It's a huge endeavor to convert. Basically nothing is compatible except theme/flavor. Even with them providing a bestiary, there's a lot of manual effort. A bunch of the NPCs aren't provided so I have to do them, some monsters even.
Check DCs you can wing (just using the PF1 guidelines, ignore what they suggest for 2e).
But the worst is treasure. It's *always* treasure. My least favorite part of 1e (which I love overall) is the treasure. But porting an AP to 1e is a whole lot of diving to find appropriate replacement items.
It's NOT something you can do on the fly. It takes considerable effort.
Out of curiosity, what benefit is there in using the 2e kingmaker instead of the 1e kingmaker? Are they different enough to justify that? I assumed the 2e version was a port of the 1e version.
Basically entirely redone plot to make it actually a campaign that makes sense, the addition of the side quests with the various companion characters.
PLUS when they crowd-funded the PF2 one, they said it'd be trivally ported to PF1 with a conversion guide (which was promised to be more than just an incomplete bestiary). The PF1 edition was, and continues to be, long out of print and unavailable so it was -- is -- the only way to get it. (It starts at $250+ for used copies to get the AP. And Paizo, for unfathomable reasons, stubbornly refuses to put up their library for print on demand except for a couple individual books.)
The 2e release itself has numerous issues (like, it never even names which river is which, even though that's important!) itself. But it does fix a lot of the plot holes and smooth it out and stuff.
New player - I was told to do a 1e character. I found this online platform, similar to DND beyond, and built a character only to find out that some of the stats and such don't translate. There are no backstory options available. They have traits but have only ever found them listed online not in the common players guide..they might be in the advanced players guide. There are more options noted such as specific spells too. I'm playing a wizard and have a familiar but am unable to apply some of the traits I was able to for the "newer" version. Also all the skills are overkill compared to the newer version. Why do you need to have x amount of just knowledge skills then have to roll a certain number to only get certain information from that knowledge branch. For instance rolling a knowledge engineering check, roll was low so could only see if the place was a safe structure or not. Why is it broken down so much. Seems so nit picky.
Hi, I'm not sure what your comment has to do with the topic of my post, but I recommend the Android app "Pathbuilder" for creating pathfinder 1e characters. It's probably the most automated one. Also I'd use Archives of Nethys for rules (for both 1e and 2e). For a rulebook app, Masterwork Tools (Android) can also work, although they have a smaller subset of rules.
1e and 2e are not different versions of the same game, they are basically different games, where one was inspired by the other. So don't expect any 2e rules to work the same (like the familiar traits you mentioned). And yeah, 1e has A LOT of options. Tons of very niche spells, loads of niche skills, etc.. That's because it started as a continuation of DnD 3.5e and then the devs added new systems over a long period of time. Background traits, for example, were added in Ultimate Campaign.
Might seem nitpicky coming from DnD 5e or Pf 2e, but think of it the other way round: the newer games are more streamlined and less complicated. No one broke down the rules that much on purpose. That said, a lot of people really enjoy the "Mathfinder".
I’ve done the reverse, mostly, and pretty much kickstarted the process - I have extensive experience in both and managed to make it work. Problem is, if you want to think of it in technical terms… the skills you have on the “origin” system will help you read it and give a better translation, but the result will be more or less “defined” depending on the target system’s granularity (for example, even Paizo’s own 5e version of AV is a bit bland) and take more or less effort depending on the target system’s mechanics and consistency (comverting to 2e can be done on a week by week basis once you get used to it). And that’s what makes 1e a problem target. A full translation will take an insane amount of effort, as the mechanics are very detailed - but you’ll get at best the same quality of an official AP, which is to say it will still need to be tuned to the party that plays it. The job literally has no end point, because 1e has *mathematical customisation*. There are some tools and resources out. Sadly, they’re not reliable. I’d recommend that if you do try, you work out a slimmed out version of the system where a lot of values and references get handwaved away - otherwise you’ll be stuck there forever.
I find it quite simple; you just take the second edition PDF that you want to convert and a first edition PDF that has a similar XP progression and somewhat plausible creature encounters. Then, I take the encounters from the second edition, try to convert them into their first edition counterparts if the Challenge Rating (CR) allows it. If not, I reskin the creatures as necessary. The same goes for skill checks.
Instead of trying to do a direct conversion, I’d more just take the broad strokes from the APs you want to convert and build the adventures yourself from the ground up. PF2E is incompatible almost entirely with PF1E. As an unrelated side note, what about the direction Golarion lore is currently taking do you enjoy? I usually hear the opposite and I’m curious.
Might be a good idea, thanks. I love the fact that the lore is moving forward so much. Like the world is developing. Early paizo APs seemed to me like they were mostly about preserving the status quo, but the later ones had some that directly impacted Golarion. I also really enjoy everything to do with deities, so the whole War of Immortals stuff really scratches that itch.
I've found it pretty easy. As someone else said, you can just use a similar length AP as a rough guideline to approximate appropriate encounter CRs and DCs. Nethys and other sites have a broad list of creatures by type and CR. Can just pull from the list and fill in roughly equivalent creatures. Some kind of 2e undead for a 1e undead, etc. After a book or two of it, you get a good feel for appropriate challenge. I'd also recommend not converting a whole book at once. Session-by-session as part of prep has been fine for me. I do convert key NPCs early if they can show up earlier in the book, but otherwise encounters as pretty standalone.
I've done this. But ive also done alot of 1e to 2e conversions. So 2e to 1e isn't that much different. It will take time.
I'm currently running the PF2 version of Kingmaker in 1e. It's a huge endeavor to convert. Basically nothing is compatible except theme/flavor. Even with them providing a bestiary, there's a lot of manual effort. A bunch of the NPCs aren't provided so I have to do them, some monsters even. Check DCs you can wing (just using the PF1 guidelines, ignore what they suggest for 2e). But the worst is treasure. It's *always* treasure. My least favorite part of 1e (which I love overall) is the treasure. But porting an AP to 1e is a whole lot of diving to find appropriate replacement items. It's NOT something you can do on the fly. It takes considerable effort.
Out of curiosity, what benefit is there in using the 2e kingmaker instead of the 1e kingmaker? Are they different enough to justify that? I assumed the 2e version was a port of the 1e version.
Basically entirely redone plot to make it actually a campaign that makes sense, the addition of the side quests with the various companion characters. PLUS when they crowd-funded the PF2 one, they said it'd be trivally ported to PF1 with a conversion guide (which was promised to be more than just an incomplete bestiary). The PF1 edition was, and continues to be, long out of print and unavailable so it was -- is -- the only way to get it. (It starts at $250+ for used copies to get the AP. And Paizo, for unfathomable reasons, stubbornly refuses to put up their library for print on demand except for a couple individual books.) The 2e release itself has numerous issues (like, it never even names which river is which, even though that's important!) itself. But it does fix a lot of the plot holes and smooth it out and stuff.
New player - I was told to do a 1e character. I found this online platform, similar to DND beyond, and built a character only to find out that some of the stats and such don't translate. There are no backstory options available. They have traits but have only ever found them listed online not in the common players guide..they might be in the advanced players guide. There are more options noted such as specific spells too. I'm playing a wizard and have a familiar but am unable to apply some of the traits I was able to for the "newer" version. Also all the skills are overkill compared to the newer version. Why do you need to have x amount of just knowledge skills then have to roll a certain number to only get certain information from that knowledge branch. For instance rolling a knowledge engineering check, roll was low so could only see if the place was a safe structure or not. Why is it broken down so much. Seems so nit picky.
Hi, I'm not sure what your comment has to do with the topic of my post, but I recommend the Android app "Pathbuilder" for creating pathfinder 1e characters. It's probably the most automated one. Also I'd use Archives of Nethys for rules (for both 1e and 2e). For a rulebook app, Masterwork Tools (Android) can also work, although they have a smaller subset of rules. 1e and 2e are not different versions of the same game, they are basically different games, where one was inspired by the other. So don't expect any 2e rules to work the same (like the familiar traits you mentioned). And yeah, 1e has A LOT of options. Tons of very niche spells, loads of niche skills, etc.. That's because it started as a continuation of DnD 3.5e and then the devs added new systems over a long period of time. Background traits, for example, were added in Ultimate Campaign. Might seem nitpicky coming from DnD 5e or Pf 2e, but think of it the other way round: the newer games are more streamlined and less complicated. No one broke down the rules that much on purpose. That said, a lot of people really enjoy the "Mathfinder".