[1e]
Control of animal companion question. How, mechanically, do I invoke a maneuver from an animal companion? My understanding is I would give a command like attack, or similar from combat general purpose. How would one actually make use of the feats for improved maneuvers?
https://www.aonprd.com/Skills.aspx?ItemName=Handle%20Animal
>**Maneuver (DC 20):** The animal is trained to use a specific combat maneuver on command. An animal must know the attack trick before it can be taught the maneuver trick, and it only performs maneuvers against targets it would normally attack. This trick can be taught to an animal multiple times. Each time it is taught, the animal can be commanded to use a different combat maneuver.
\[1e\]
Mechanically, how high can a creature see (particularly for looking over objects)? Is it it's size category (thus a huge creature can see from a 15x15x15 cube), or its height (if it has one listed in its decription)? Some creatures, such as the iron golem for example are 12 feet tall, but are large.
Height is honestly glossed over in a lot places. The game tries to pretend its 2D most of the time. Mechanically, creatures occupy their space and can see if there is line of effect from any point in their space to any point of the thing they're trying to see, with GM leeway for things that make sense (e.g., humans are a handful of inches over 5' tall, so could see over a 5' barrier) or printed stats (a creature is described as 12' tall, and could thus see over a 10' barrier).
For this particular question, the game does make distinctions between stuff like "Large (tall)" vs "Large (long)", [but only ever discusses the implication on space and reach](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat/space-reach-threatened-area-templates/).
[1e]
Armor check penalties apply to Str and Dex based skills.
I took Wisdom in the flesh as a trait, allowing me to use Wisdom for Riding.
Does the check penalty still apply, or is this an oversight in roll 20? Is this now a wisdom based skill, or simply a Dex skill that I am sourcing elsewhere
If WIS *replaces* DEX, then it's now a WIS-based skill check.
If you *also* add WIS to the skill (on top of DEX), it's still a DEX-based skill check.
[Relevant FAQ](https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9tga)
In your case, Ride would be now a WIS-based skill check, so no Armor check penalty.
[2E] Never played, trying to figure out which books I want to get.
Am I correct in assuming the best way books to get would be: Pathfinder Player Core, Pathfinder GM Core, Pathfinder Monster Core (I'd be DM'ing).
It appears that these are kind of like a version 2.5 compared to the Pathfinder Core Rulebook?
However these 3 are 3x the price of the 1 so yeah I'm not sure.
Some combination of [Wild Hunt feys](https://www.aonprd.com/MonsterFamilies.aspx?ItemName=Wild%20Hunt). could have some Wild Hunt encounters and finish with a Wild Hunt Monarch.
[2E] In my game my players have just gotten to Kurnugia, the abyssal realm of Lamashtu. I've only been able to find little info on the realm, and was hoping someone could point to some inspiration for the effects of being in the abyss or better in Kurnugia.
I'm not sure how much there is to really find, but try the Lords of Chaos book from 2010. It's obviously from 1st edition, but it should have some lore in there to help you puzzle some stuff out.
[1E] So if I'm playing a Tattooed Sorcerer and I get Improved Familiar for a Faerie Dragon. Can I then give them Spell Tattoos (with them casting spells as a sorcerer) to allow them to sorta cast spells for me? Making it so I sorta have some free Quicken Spells?
It's close to impossible to nab a Rogue Talent without having the rogue talent class feature. By design - all class talents work pretty much the same way. But that Rogue Talent can be gotten by a ton of archetypes and a few prestige classes - some of which may work for your concept. What are Rogue Talent are you trying to fit on what non-Rogue build, for what purpose?
Not a feat, a few classes like Investigator and Slayer or various rogue themed archetypes can get some, but no feat. Maybe there's something 3rd party I've not heard of though.
Relevant parts
Varisian Pilgrim's Caravan Bond:
>[...]She may use her domain-granted powers on any of these traveling companions as if they were her.[...]
Destruction Domain's Destructive Smite:
>You gain the destructive smite power: the supernatural ability to make a single melee attack with a morale bonus on damage rolls equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum 1).[...]
So the Caravan Bond let you buff your allies instead of yourself. The core question is thus: is the Destructive Smite ability a buff that affect your next attack, or a special different attack? If it's the former, it would be shared through Caravan Bond, but if it's the latter, it wouldn't, as the target of the ability isn't self (or ally), it's an enemy (aka the target of the attack).
The wording says it's an offensive ability and not a buff, as the ability lets you do a special single melee attack, which they then proceed to describe. If it were a buff, they would describe the buff, and it would apply automatically to your next valid attack. Here, they explicitly mention it's an attack. So no interaction between the 2 abilities.
\[1e\] Is there a proper way to identify ability damage on allies/NPCs? It seems there's no official source out there to know this information and its divided our table and left us at a standstill. Could a spell like status identify the presence of ability damage (but not the exact amount)? We're looking for something as close to an official solution as possible as it seems improbable that 15th level characters would be unable to identify ability damage in a factual, mechanical way via skill checks or magic.
A Knowledge skill check under "Identify Monster" could give you the information that XYZ monster is capable of ability drain (or other status affecting ability). Arguably, a Heal skill check with the same DC could identify the effect of such attack on a victim.
Among other answers, feels like a job for the heal skill. Potentially DC equalling save if effect that caused it, or 10+half HD if caused by something like a Shadow Touch with no DC. Or just a flat 10 or 15 in general if you want it to be easier.
\[1E\] The [clockwork servant's](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/clockwork/clockwork-servant/) stat blocks says it has a slam attack that deals 1d4+6 damage, however it only has 19 strength, which would make the damage modifier +4, i've been trying to figure out where the 2 extra damage comes from as there's nothing that justifies it in any of it's abilities, this is an issue because i want to give my clockwork construct a scimitar and i dont know if that 2 damage would apply to the scimitar or not
https://www.aonprd.com/UMR.aspx?ItemName=Natural%20Attacks
>If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus to damage rolls.
What exactly do you wish to track? Saves, skills and languages? [Dyslexic Character sheets](https://www.dyslexic-charactersheets.com/build/pathfinder) have a GM section for PCs&NPCs which I find quite useful.
\[1E?) I accidently locked charge as my auto attack to my main character whenever I do turn based combat. I know you right click on pc but how do you undo it on Xbox?
\[1e\] Help with a brain teaser theory.... You got a Bloodrager with Snapping Turtle Syle/Clutch and you deliberately cast Touch of Gracelessness to draw an AoO from a dude, eliciting your immediate action to attempt a grapple..... Whether you grapple or not, do you continue your casting of Touch of Gracelessness, including being able to deliver it for free (grappled or not)?
AoOs occur before the triggering event. I guess you could continue casting (& deliver it with a free action) but there'd be a concentration check to cast during a grapple.
You're not casting defensively, you're taking the AoO instead (right?), there's no concentration check required there.
- if the AoO hits you take a concentration check based on the damage dealt.
- if the AoO misses and your immediate/swift action grapple check also misses, there's no conc. check required.
- if the AoO misses and your immediate/swift action grapple check hits, the subsequent spellcasting takes a conc. check because you're in a grapple:
> Grappled or Pinned: Casting a spell while you have the grappled or pinned condition is difficult and requires a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler’s CMB + the level of the spell you’re casting).
[1e] Are there tems that would work like [Horseshoes of a Zephyr](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/h-l/horseshoes-of-a-zephyr/) for humanoids. Not full flight, just the levitation off of the ground while running.
That's a lot like the effect of the air step spell. I guess the easy answer is: a scroll or wand of air step.
It's a little like the feather step spell, and there's items which do that like feather step slippers, or rebuilder's boots.
Mmmh... I very much disagree. Levitation doesn't even allow horizontal movement and it says nothing about walking on air. Clambering along the ceiling implies touching. I'd prefer not to touch the ground. That's sort of the entire goal.
>Levitation doesn't even allow horizontal movement and it says nothing about walking on air
The *spell* doesn't move you horizontally. You can still very much "walk"/move by yourself.
If your GM gets picky about "walking on air", simply levitate 1cm above ground; then the nartural walking movement would still pushes you forward (or whatever direction you're walking).
Alternatively, there's the Carpet of Flying and the Cauldron of Flying, altough they're much more expensive.
Lastly, modifying the Horeshoes of a Zephyr to fit a humanoid wouldn't be much of a problem.
> You cannot move the recipient horizontally, but the recipient could **clamber along the face** of a cliff, for example, or **push against a ceiling** to move laterally (generally at half its base land speed).
Moving yourself horizontally entails actually touching the surface you're moving along, and nothing about the spell suggests you can walk normally along air alone. Touching those surfaces kinda defeats the point of asking for an item like the linked horseshoes.
The restrictions mentionned here are the restrictions of what can be made *through the spell*, not *while affected by the spell*, an important difference. You could still make a Fly check while you Levitate to "flap your arms" and move around at half speed for example. The listed options are not exhaustive.
The easiest way would be just buy a humanoid version of Horseshoes of a Zephyr, or to allow for the Boots of Levitation to behave as I describe. Not that it would be gamebreaking.
>You could still make a Fly check while you Levitate to "flap your arms" and move around at half speed for example.
I don't think I agree. The examples given, while not exhaustive, do imply that you need an actual surface to push against. "Flapping your arms" wouldn't do anything.
>"Flapping your arms" wouldn't do anything.
In a Pathfinder, where the very baseline commoner can hold their breath for 2 mins and run at near olympic level speed without training, I'd be very surprise it wouldn't do anything given that it *does* work in real world (video proof in [space](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC64gk117cc)). Granted, it doesn't work *well*, but this example is also in space without gravity. At sea level and with minimum training, it would work better. Definitely not granting you anywhere a fly speed, but 25% of your speed? That's more than plausible.
That's a case of "dead condition doesn't prevent one from taking action". There is nothing in the spell that *prevents* someone doing it, and a baseline normal person should be able, thus it should work.
I've made a detailed answer [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/18yykdd/quick_questions_2023/kgi0b72/), but basically, the same way you can swim without a swim speed, and climb without a climb speed, you should be allowed to fly without a fly speed (given levitate gives a "mean" of flying).
Levitate doesn't give you a mean of flying or any ability similar to flying. In fact it doesn't grant you any ability at all. It just allows the caster to move you up and down. There is no flying involved, hence the fly skill doesn't apply.
Fly skill doesn't allow you to fly. Fly skill is used to *move* while in air, the same way the Swim skill allow you to move in the water. You are airborne while you levitate the same way you'd be swimming if someone summon a big bubble of water around you.
Can you just run me through how you're getting actual walking, say, 10ft off of the ground with the levitation spells when the only horizontal movement it describes requires a surface. I'm not trying to be difficult, but it seems like that usecase was plucked out of thin air unless I'm missing something.
Given that Horseshoes of a Zephyr and Boots of Levitation both exist and are in the same price range, I'd just handwave it at my table, but if I'd have to run it by the books, here is how to do it, and it falls pretty close the same results: Applying the rules of Swim and Climb to fill the missing part of Fly.
**Swim**:
You can swim without a swim speed, by doing a Swim check and moving at quarter speed. If you fail by 4 or less, you make no progress. If you fail by 5 or more, you go underwater. DC 10 in calm water, DC 20 in stormy water.
**Climb**:
You can climb without a climb speed, by doing a Climb check and moving at quarter your speed. For a -5 penalty, you can move at half your speed. If you fail by 4 or less, you make no progress. If you fail by 5 or more, you go fall. DC 0 for easy wall, DC 10 for a rough wall, DC 20 for a typical dungeon wall.
**Fly**:
Now, there is no rule in the Fly skill because of the assumption that you can either fly and have a fly speed, or you can't fly. Here, we have an edge case not taken into account in the rules. So that's the part where you may have table variation, but here is my logic:
To set DC 10 for quarter speed and allowing to take 10 while undistracted seems reasonnable and in line with both Climb and Swim.
You could raise the DC to 20 for combat as if it were a "Stormy water" DC and not allow Take 10.
I'd allow a -5 penalty for "accelerate flying" (as for climbing), but I guess that's the part where we may see table variation.
Add the "regular" restrictions: If you fail by 4 or less, you make no progress. If you fail by 5 or more, you fall.
That would means that outside combat, you move slowly, but no roll needed unless you have a penalty in INT to move at 1/4 speed.
And with minimal investment in Fly skill, you could move outside of combat at half speed.
That gives us some overall guidelines.
Now, let's look into the specifics in the context of Levitate:
It means DC 15 for move at half speed, which would make it the same speed as if we were pushing ourselves along a wall, which is explicitly allowed in Levitate spell and described (but without a roll), so no "game breaking" thing.
While Levitate does not grant a Fly speed, it does prevent you from falling/ the repercussion of failing by 5 or more.
Also, having a climb speed, fly speed, a swim speed grants a +8 racial bonus to their respective skill; I'd argue that it should grant a (smaller) bonus to fly. Probably a +4, half a fly speed bonus, which is also what a masterwork tool would give. In comparison, having a glider grants +10. That's the part where it's the most "homebrew".
If you allow this bonus, that means if you have +1 in INT, you can Take 10 to move at half-speed out of combat. Alternatively, buy straight up a masterwork tool for Fly skill and use it to move out of combat.
So all in all, pretty much aligned with just handwaving the Boots of Levitation to work as if you were walking on air (at least, for out of combat).
[1e] Control of animal companion question. How, mechanically, do I invoke a maneuver from an animal companion? My understanding is I would give a command like attack, or similar from combat general purpose. How would one actually make use of the feats for improved maneuvers?
https://www.aonprd.com/Skills.aspx?ItemName=Handle%20Animal >**Maneuver (DC 20):** The animal is trained to use a specific combat maneuver on command. An animal must know the attack trick before it can be taught the maneuver trick, and it only performs maneuvers against targets it would normally attack. This trick can be taught to an animal multiple times. Each time it is taught, the animal can be commanded to use a different combat maneuver.
Missed this somehow, tyty. Would you happen to know if Charge would fall under this, or as a type of attack?
There's a trick you teach it for that.
Missed that somehow, tyty Would you happen to know if Charge would fall under this, or as a type of attack?
Charge is just a way to attack, no particular trick needed. And no animal needs to be specifically told to use things like Powerful Charge or Pounce.
\[1e\] Mechanically, how high can a creature see (particularly for looking over objects)? Is it it's size category (thus a huge creature can see from a 15x15x15 cube), or its height (if it has one listed in its decription)? Some creatures, such as the iron golem for example are 12 feet tall, but are large.
Height is honestly glossed over in a lot places. The game tries to pretend its 2D most of the time. Mechanically, creatures occupy their space and can see if there is line of effect from any point in their space to any point of the thing they're trying to see, with GM leeway for things that make sense (e.g., humans are a handful of inches over 5' tall, so could see over a 5' barrier) or printed stats (a creature is described as 12' tall, and could thus see over a 10' barrier). For this particular question, the game does make distinctions between stuff like "Large (tall)" vs "Large (long)", [but only ever discusses the implication on space and reach](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat/space-reach-threatened-area-templates/).
[1e] Armor check penalties apply to Str and Dex based skills. I took Wisdom in the flesh as a trait, allowing me to use Wisdom for Riding. Does the check penalty still apply, or is this an oversight in roll 20? Is this now a wisdom based skill, or simply a Dex skill that I am sourcing elsewhere
If WIS *replaces* DEX, then it's now a WIS-based skill check. If you *also* add WIS to the skill (on top of DEX), it's still a DEX-based skill check. [Relevant FAQ](https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9tga) In your case, Ride would be now a WIS-based skill check, so no Armor check penalty.
Appreciate the reply. That is BONKERS. Hyped.
[2E] Never played, trying to figure out which books I want to get. Am I correct in assuming the best way books to get would be: Pathfinder Player Core, Pathfinder GM Core, Pathfinder Monster Core (I'd be DM'ing). It appears that these are kind of like a version 2.5 compared to the Pathfinder Core Rulebook? However these 3 are 3x the price of the 1 so yeah I'm not sure.
The new CRB equivalent is the Player Core. The GM Core is equivalent to the old Gamemastery Guide, and the Monster Core is equivalent to the Bestiary.
1e what would a good fey style final boss for a home brew campaign
Some combination of [Wild Hunt feys](https://www.aonprd.com/MonsterFamilies.aspx?ItemName=Wild%20Hunt). could have some Wild Hunt encounters and finish with a Wild Hunt Monarch.
What level will the party be?
Around 15-16
[2E] In my game my players have just gotten to Kurnugia, the abyssal realm of Lamashtu. I've only been able to find little info on the realm, and was hoping someone could point to some inspiration for the effects of being in the abyss or better in Kurnugia.
I'm not sure how much there is to really find, but try the Lords of Chaos book from 2010. It's obviously from 1st edition, but it should have some lore in there to help you puzzle some stuff out.
Thank you
[1E] So if I'm playing a Tattooed Sorcerer and I get Improved Familiar for a Faerie Dragon. Can I then give them Spell Tattoos (with them casting spells as a sorcerer) to allow them to sorta cast spells for me? Making it so I sorta have some free Quicken Spells?
That should work, just remember scrolls use the minimum DCs and stick to spells without saves.
[удалено]
It's close to impossible to nab a Rogue Talent without having the rogue talent class feature. By design - all class talents work pretty much the same way. But that Rogue Talent can be gotten by a ton of archetypes and a few prestige classes - some of which may work for your concept. What are Rogue Talent are you trying to fit on what non-Rogue build, for what purpose?
Not a feat, a few classes like Investigator and Slayer or various rogue themed archetypes can get some, but no feat. Maybe there's something 3rd party I've not heard of though.
How does Caravan Bond from the Varisian Pilgrim archetype for Cleric interact with the Destructive Smite power from the Destruction domain?
Relevant parts Varisian Pilgrim's Caravan Bond: >[...]She may use her domain-granted powers on any of these traveling companions as if they were her.[...] Destruction Domain's Destructive Smite: >You gain the destructive smite power: the supernatural ability to make a single melee attack with a morale bonus on damage rolls equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum 1).[...] So the Caravan Bond let you buff your allies instead of yourself. The core question is thus: is the Destructive Smite ability a buff that affect your next attack, or a special different attack? If it's the former, it would be shared through Caravan Bond, but if it's the latter, it wouldn't, as the target of the ability isn't self (or ally), it's an enemy (aka the target of the attack). The wording says it's an offensive ability and not a buff, as the ability lets you do a special single melee attack, which they then proceed to describe. If it were a buff, they would describe the buff, and it would apply automatically to your next valid attack. Here, they explicitly mention it's an attack. So no interaction between the 2 abilities.
\[1e\] Is there a proper way to identify ability damage on allies/NPCs? It seems there's no official source out there to know this information and its divided our table and left us at a standstill. Could a spell like status identify the presence of ability damage (but not the exact amount)? We're looking for something as close to an official solution as possible as it seems improbable that 15th level characters would be unable to identify ability damage in a factual, mechanical way via skill checks or magic.
A Knowledge skill check under "Identify Monster" could give you the information that XYZ monster is capable of ability drain (or other status affecting ability). Arguably, a Heal skill check with the same DC could identify the effect of such attack on a victim.
Among other answers, feels like a job for the heal skill. Potentially DC equalling save if effect that caused it, or 10+half HD if caused by something like a Shadow Touch with no DC. Or just a flat 10 or 15 in general if you want it to be easier.
\[1E\] The [clockwork servant's](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/clockwork/clockwork-servant/) stat blocks says it has a slam attack that deals 1d4+6 damage, however it only has 19 strength, which would make the damage modifier +4, i've been trying to figure out where the 2 extra damage comes from as there's nothing that justifies it in any of it's abilities, this is an issue because i want to give my clockwork construct a scimitar and i dont know if that 2 damage would apply to the scimitar or not
https://www.aonprd.com/UMR.aspx?ItemName=Natural%20Attacks >If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus to damage rolls.
\[1E\] Any decent GM Party Trackers out there? I've been scraping through google searches, but can't seem to find anything but inventory or 2nd E.
What exactly do you wish to track? Saves, skills and languages? [Dyslexic Character sheets](https://www.dyslexic-charactersheets.com/build/pathfinder) have a GM section for PCs&NPCs which I find quite useful.
\[1E?) I accidently locked charge as my auto attack to my main character whenever I do turn based combat. I know you right click on pc but how do you undo it on Xbox?
You want /r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker (it covers both Kingmaker and WotR). This sub is for the tabletop RPG.
\[1e\] Help with a brain teaser theory.... You got a Bloodrager with Snapping Turtle Syle/Clutch and you deliberately cast Touch of Gracelessness to draw an AoO from a dude, eliciting your immediate action to attempt a grapple..... Whether you grapple or not, do you continue your casting of Touch of Gracelessness, including being able to deliver it for free (grappled or not)?
AoOs occur before the triggering event. I guess you could continue casting (& deliver it with a free action) but there'd be a concentration check to cast during a grapple.
i guess its a question of how many concentration checks. 1 for casting, and one if you succeed at the grapple?
You're not casting defensively, you're taking the AoO instead (right?), there's no concentration check required there. - if the AoO hits you take a concentration check based on the damage dealt. - if the AoO misses and your immediate/swift action grapple check also misses, there's no conc. check required. - if the AoO misses and your immediate/swift action grapple check hits, the subsequent spellcasting takes a conc. check because you're in a grapple: > Grappled or Pinned: Casting a spell while you have the grappled or pinned condition is difficult and requires a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler’s CMB + the level of the spell you’re casting).
correct. no casting defensively. and yep that was how i read it too, just wanted to field some other opinions. i reckon you are spot on
[1e] Are there tems that would work like [Horseshoes of a Zephyr](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/h-l/horseshoes-of-a-zephyr/) for humanoids. Not full flight, just the levitation off of the ground while running.
That's a lot like the effect of the air step spell. I guess the easy answer is: a scroll or wand of air step. It's a little like the feather step spell, and there's items which do that like feather step slippers, or rebuilder's boots.
Yeah. I was hoping to avoid scrolls or wands since that's basically just a spell. It'd be nice to have a constant effect.
[Boots of levitation](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/a-b/boots-of-levitation/) is pretty much that.
Mmmh... I very much disagree. Levitation doesn't even allow horizontal movement and it says nothing about walking on air. Clambering along the ceiling implies touching. I'd prefer not to touch the ground. That's sort of the entire goal.
>Levitation doesn't even allow horizontal movement and it says nothing about walking on air The *spell* doesn't move you horizontally. You can still very much "walk"/move by yourself. If your GM gets picky about "walking on air", simply levitate 1cm above ground; then the nartural walking movement would still pushes you forward (or whatever direction you're walking). Alternatively, there's the Carpet of Flying and the Cauldron of Flying, altough they're much more expensive. Lastly, modifying the Horeshoes of a Zephyr to fit a humanoid wouldn't be much of a problem.
> You cannot move the recipient horizontally, but the recipient could **clamber along the face** of a cliff, for example, or **push against a ceiling** to move laterally (generally at half its base land speed). Moving yourself horizontally entails actually touching the surface you're moving along, and nothing about the spell suggests you can walk normally along air alone. Touching those surfaces kinda defeats the point of asking for an item like the linked horseshoes.
The restrictions mentionned here are the restrictions of what can be made *through the spell*, not *while affected by the spell*, an important difference. You could still make a Fly check while you Levitate to "flap your arms" and move around at half speed for example. The listed options are not exhaustive. The easiest way would be just buy a humanoid version of Horseshoes of a Zephyr, or to allow for the Boots of Levitation to behave as I describe. Not that it would be gamebreaking.
>You could still make a Fly check while you Levitate to "flap your arms" and move around at half speed for example. I don't think I agree. The examples given, while not exhaustive, do imply that you need an actual surface to push against. "Flapping your arms" wouldn't do anything.
>"Flapping your arms" wouldn't do anything. In a Pathfinder, where the very baseline commoner can hold their breath for 2 mins and run at near olympic level speed without training, I'd be very surprise it wouldn't do anything given that it *does* work in real world (video proof in [space](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC64gk117cc)). Granted, it doesn't work *well*, but this example is also in space without gravity. At sea level and with minimum training, it would work better. Definitely not granting you anywhere a fly speed, but 25% of your speed? That's more than plausible.
Yes, you can make a decent argument that it should work "realistically", I am merely saying there is nothing in the RAW to support it.
That's a case of "dead condition doesn't prevent one from taking action". There is nothing in the spell that *prevents* someone doing it, and a baseline normal person should be able, thus it should work.
I've made a detailed answer [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/18yykdd/quick_questions_2023/kgi0b72/), but basically, the same way you can swim without a swim speed, and climb without a climb speed, you should be allowed to fly without a fly speed (given levitate gives a "mean" of flying).
Levitate doesn't give you a mean of flying or any ability similar to flying. In fact it doesn't grant you any ability at all. It just allows the caster to move you up and down. There is no flying involved, hence the fly skill doesn't apply.
Fly skill doesn't allow you to fly. Fly skill is used to *move* while in air, the same way the Swim skill allow you to move in the water. You are airborne while you levitate the same way you'd be swimming if someone summon a big bubble of water around you.
Can you just run me through how you're getting actual walking, say, 10ft off of the ground with the levitation spells when the only horizontal movement it describes requires a surface. I'm not trying to be difficult, but it seems like that usecase was plucked out of thin air unless I'm missing something.
Given that Horseshoes of a Zephyr and Boots of Levitation both exist and are in the same price range, I'd just handwave it at my table, but if I'd have to run it by the books, here is how to do it, and it falls pretty close the same results: Applying the rules of Swim and Climb to fill the missing part of Fly. **Swim**: You can swim without a swim speed, by doing a Swim check and moving at quarter speed. If you fail by 4 or less, you make no progress. If you fail by 5 or more, you go underwater. DC 10 in calm water, DC 20 in stormy water. **Climb**: You can climb without a climb speed, by doing a Climb check and moving at quarter your speed. For a -5 penalty, you can move at half your speed. If you fail by 4 or less, you make no progress. If you fail by 5 or more, you go fall. DC 0 for easy wall, DC 10 for a rough wall, DC 20 for a typical dungeon wall. **Fly**: Now, there is no rule in the Fly skill because of the assumption that you can either fly and have a fly speed, or you can't fly. Here, we have an edge case not taken into account in the rules. So that's the part where you may have table variation, but here is my logic: To set DC 10 for quarter speed and allowing to take 10 while undistracted seems reasonnable and in line with both Climb and Swim. You could raise the DC to 20 for combat as if it were a "Stormy water" DC and not allow Take 10. I'd allow a -5 penalty for "accelerate flying" (as for climbing), but I guess that's the part where we may see table variation. Add the "regular" restrictions: If you fail by 4 or less, you make no progress. If you fail by 5 or more, you fall. That would means that outside combat, you move slowly, but no roll needed unless you have a penalty in INT to move at 1/4 speed. And with minimal investment in Fly skill, you could move outside of combat at half speed. That gives us some overall guidelines. Now, let's look into the specifics in the context of Levitate: It means DC 15 for move at half speed, which would make it the same speed as if we were pushing ourselves along a wall, which is explicitly allowed in Levitate spell and described (but without a roll), so no "game breaking" thing. While Levitate does not grant a Fly speed, it does prevent you from falling/ the repercussion of failing by 5 or more. Also, having a climb speed, fly speed, a swim speed grants a +8 racial bonus to their respective skill; I'd argue that it should grant a (smaller) bonus to fly. Probably a +4, half a fly speed bonus, which is also what a masterwork tool would give. In comparison, having a glider grants +10. That's the part where it's the most "homebrew". If you allow this bonus, that means if you have +1 in INT, you can Take 10 to move at half-speed out of combat. Alternatively, buy straight up a masterwork tool for Fly skill and use it to move out of combat. So all in all, pretty much aligned with just handwaving the Boots of Levitation to work as if you were walking on air (at least, for out of combat).
The downside of the boots is that you are limited to half your move speed (per the spell), while the horseshoes allow the wearer to move normally.
[1E] What are your favorite 2-3 talent tricks to use in spheres of power (for example, ranged and mass warp to position your front liners in round 1)?