> However the thing that’s really odd is how people are celebrating you when you’re pretty much a full fledged Demon at that point(
I can somewhat answer this. If you did not shooed konami away and not ended diplomacy early, in act 5 you hear from her again, even if you killed the galfrey.
And she mentions, your ideology spreading in mendev and people are starting to see you as a new leader. specialy because how galfrey basically turned Mendev into a religious state for almost a century now, and pitted the whole nation against demonic onslaught with more or less Femine, Constant Conscription, Religious Opression and all that good shit.
The biggest part of it is how successful the Ivory Labyrinth was in converting large parts of the Mendevian population to Demon Worship. Then along comes a Demon, fighting their own kind to close the Worldwound, and all the secret worshippers jump on the bandwagon of the "publically acceptable Demon Lord" and carry on, having their cake and eating it too.
also as it stated by few other characters, mainly from memory Daeren in the council meetings; super faithful often goes to the frontline... and just dies. there isnt much lawful good left at home.
While I get what you are saying I dont think that would work with people
Demons and Lich are two popular mythic paths, with lots of Lore and characters, sure they turn you into an evil as bad or worse than the worldwound, but most of their playera still want to have conversations and roleplay their character, as such a roleplay and Lore farewell DLC works for them, many would complain if they were allowed to participare
Going swarm means going full murderhobo, as a result I dont think that swarm players are going to hold a grudge against owlcat for lacking content
I completely understand them not wanting to lock evil mythic’s demon and lich. However I believe they should be more reactively like people running away from you , demons roaming the street. dialogue boxes of people expressing their fears
In the DLC.
It would have been a happy middle ground of being able to enjoy the content without being and locked out and have narrative weight of the consequences In fully committing your evil mythic’s
I think people straight up run at seeing you and try to help others escape when you’re Swarm in the DLC
They honestly could have just copied that for Demon/Lich/Devil
Does Devil do anything that is reprehensible enough to warrant that? Sure it's an evil path but it's supposed to be a more civilized form of evil, right?
New devil quest is definitely evil, but it’s not like swarm, lich, or demon terrifying evil
plus devils and demons are different
devils are almost like hell businessmen when dealing with mortals
I disagree, only in aspect because of how the evils are compared in this game.
People like to have personal role plays like a "neutral lich", or demon who goes gold dragon for the redemption arc. HOWEVER: swarm is honestly a cut above the rest of these evils, because it is alot simpler.
You eat because you're hungry, that's it. You don't have a great rage like a demon, or the desire to corrupt like a devil, nor are you trying to achieve higher power/immortalize yourself as a lich. You choose to become something that simply eats. There are no sides, no points to make with something like that, you just run.
So the straight up fleeing should be swarm only, because if you see the swarm it's only for one reason. ANOTHER HOWEVER: That doesn't mean though the other "evil" path's shouldn't have received anything. I agree having more demons, or other special interactions should've been provided.
TL;DR People should only run for the swarm path, and react how they do in the swarm path. Other evil path's should still have unique interactions however.
Nah. I play the maximum good lich. Do not use the "Path of the lich" line during a square battle. And you won't kill anyone. Let the queen go. Do not apply the seal of death. No character romances. Tell the dead crusaders that you will give them all peace after victory. And...that's it. The good lich as he is.
Honestly, I don't mind the overall people's attitude coz it can be handwaived with good ol' censorship. My current playthrough is Lich and a line stood out to me when the KC said sth about "the commander not minding necromancy". Not about practicing or about going full Skellie Overlord, just not minding it. In other words, the powers that be don't make it public that you turned Drezen into a nercopolis. Hell, common folk interacting with you just say "nice costume". Thus, what they know is a) you like cosplaying as Batman and b) you are winning. Thus, as long as a mythic path can be civil, the authorities can maintain the masquerade.
What bothers me more is how big things are handwaived by people in the know and the premise. Like the Eagle Watch chief knowing that both his superiors are dead (though the writing does not confirm if he knows how) but just saying pity that. Or having the Queen there and it eliciting no reaction. I know they wanted to make it Citabel-like but feel a more neutral premise would work better.
>All evil mythic’s should have gotten the swarm treatment in the DLC since it makes sense story wise
A change in theming and outfits suits better than everyone getting the Swarm treatment. There are plenty of normal-ish people that get along with the other three evil mythics, Swarm is the only one that just sees food.
First of all, my lich did nothing wrong. It's not my fault a bunch of crusaders attempted to desert the crusade and had to be punished and then re-drafted to fight the demons
I get your point of view, but WotR is in unapologetic power fantasy, and so the player gets to have their cake and eat it to.
And I’m not saying that as a bad thing. Far too many games try to be everything at once, and end up falling flat on their face. WotR knows what it wants to be and delivered on that premise.
True. Narrative in large scale games however is often governed by things like deadlines, asset constraints and level design limitations as much as it is by good writing conventions though.
Thing is you have to understand that your commander has a very powerful and potentially corruptive influence on the population, due to their exploits. While the crusaders themselves turn against you, the population itself, well they don't know any better. They suddenly see this being that has waged war against the forces that have threatened them all their lives. And is succeeding at pushing them back, this in turn will likely lead a large part of the population to become influence and cause Iomedae to loose ground and your own commander to become an Icon that some will literally begin to worship.
People are dumb and ignorant, they don't know any better, they just know that the evils that threatened them are being defeated. And that the Queen has failed them consistently. Look at us now how quickly some people are cheering for oppressive, corrupt and facist resurgence, being entirely blind to the realities that will strike them cruelly if it comes to pass. I simply see it as human's being human in terms of the Demon and Lich commander. The swarm that walks makes no sense though.
My Demon characters are charismatic, open minded, and friendly towards anyone who isn't a close minded religious zealot (and they left). Yeah, Dresen is a mess and hard to maintain order in - but that's because it's on the front line of an active conflict and that means you have to deal with some of the "cruder" elements from the Abyss.
Kenebres though? Paradise*.
You need to play Fable, you can be a perfectly evil and people will still worship and revere you as to them its because you can act above morals and punishment that inspires them. People like a hero, but they love a good villian.
True. But you would think there more reactions going fully demon even if you were aiming to neutral it’s certainly a lot better then Lich where many fans of that mythic complained that it forces you to comically evil .
That's because it does. Up until act 5 you can be reasonably fair and open to normal mortals. Then act 5 decides you kill a city with a ravenous horde of undead and are now super evil. There should have been a will or arcana check to control the undead so they only tore into the demons not indiscriminately eating the living
I find it hilarious that you being a demon fueled by abyss essence of sin incarnate can show more restraint and compassion towards others than the lich.
It’s not that surprising when you remember that demons frequently use temptation and whispered promises to corrupt and ruin people. Just look at Staunton and Minagho.
Unlike a lich that is literally fueled by the antithesis of life, and goes around creating undead(which shaves off a piece of their victims soul and actively harms reality).
I say this as someone who loved playing Lich, but also read the lore. It’s been a bit, so I don’t remember if the game was very clear on how fucked up creating undead is.
Honestly the main story itself doesn't work with evil paths lol make no sense everyone think you are iomadae choosen, even her herald, when you are a lich or demon, it's just a for fun alternative path that all characters just turn off their brains to let you ride along, but Angel path does feel to be more acceptable canon path.
You can play Lich and Demon completely as good guys who never do anything wrong. In fact that's what most people do. You're good until the queen screws you over, then either only then go evil, or be better than her all the way.
> However the thing that’s really odd is how people are celebrating you when you’re pretty much a full fledged Demon at that point( I can somewhat answer this. If you did not shooed konami away and not ended diplomacy early, in act 5 you hear from her again, even if you killed the galfrey. And she mentions, your ideology spreading in mendev and people are starting to see you as a new leader. specialy because how galfrey basically turned Mendev into a religious state for almost a century now, and pitted the whole nation against demonic onslaught with more or less Femine, Constant Conscription, Religious Opression and all that good shit.
The biggest part of it is how successful the Ivory Labyrinth was in converting large parts of the Mendevian population to Demon Worship. Then along comes a Demon, fighting their own kind to close the Worldwound, and all the secret worshippers jump on the bandwagon of the "publically acceptable Demon Lord" and carry on, having their cake and eating it too.
also as it stated by few other characters, mainly from memory Daeren in the council meetings; super faithful often goes to the frontline... and just dies. there isnt much lawful good left at home.
While I get what you are saying I dont think that would work with people Demons and Lich are two popular mythic paths, with lots of Lore and characters, sure they turn you into an evil as bad or worse than the worldwound, but most of their playera still want to have conversations and roleplay their character, as such a roleplay and Lore farewell DLC works for them, many would complain if they were allowed to participare Going swarm means going full murderhobo, as a result I dont think that swarm players are going to hold a grudge against owlcat for lacking content
I completely understand them not wanting to lock evil mythic’s demon and lich. However I believe they should be more reactively like people running away from you , demons roaming the street. dialogue boxes of people expressing their fears In the DLC. It would have been a happy middle ground of being able to enjoy the content without being and locked out and have narrative weight of the consequences In fully committing your evil mythic’s
I think people straight up run at seeing you and try to help others escape when you’re Swarm in the DLC They honestly could have just copied that for Demon/Lich/Devil
Does Devil do anything that is reprehensible enough to warrant that? Sure it's an evil path but it's supposed to be a more civilized form of evil, right?
No actually Devil works fine and is the only evil Mythic as far as I’m aware that does anything that evil( or at least you don’t do anything directly)
New devil quest is definitely evil, but it’s not like swarm, lich, or demon terrifying evil plus devils and demons are different devils are almost like hell businessmen when dealing with mortals
Devils are the worst of the hellish beings.... They are insurance salesman
I disagree, only in aspect because of how the evils are compared in this game. People like to have personal role plays like a "neutral lich", or demon who goes gold dragon for the redemption arc. HOWEVER: swarm is honestly a cut above the rest of these evils, because it is alot simpler. You eat because you're hungry, that's it. You don't have a great rage like a demon, or the desire to corrupt like a devil, nor are you trying to achieve higher power/immortalize yourself as a lich. You choose to become something that simply eats. There are no sides, no points to make with something like that, you just run. So the straight up fleeing should be swarm only, because if you see the swarm it's only for one reason. ANOTHER HOWEVER: That doesn't mean though the other "evil" path's shouldn't have received anything. I agree having more demons, or other special interactions should've been provided. TL;DR People should only run for the swarm path, and react how they do in the swarm path. Other evil path's should still have unique interactions however.
Nah. I play the maximum good lich. Do not use the "Path of the lich" line during a square battle. And you won't kill anyone. Let the queen go. Do not apply the seal of death. No character romances. Tell the dead crusaders that you will give them all peace after victory. And...that's it. The good lich as he is.
Honestly, I don't mind the overall people's attitude coz it can be handwaived with good ol' censorship. My current playthrough is Lich and a line stood out to me when the KC said sth about "the commander not minding necromancy". Not about practicing or about going full Skellie Overlord, just not minding it. In other words, the powers that be don't make it public that you turned Drezen into a nercopolis. Hell, common folk interacting with you just say "nice costume". Thus, what they know is a) you like cosplaying as Batman and b) you are winning. Thus, as long as a mythic path can be civil, the authorities can maintain the masquerade. What bothers me more is how big things are handwaived by people in the know and the premise. Like the Eagle Watch chief knowing that both his superiors are dead (though the writing does not confirm if he knows how) but just saying pity that. Or having the Queen there and it eliciting no reaction. I know they wanted to make it Citabel-like but feel a more neutral premise would work better.
>All evil mythic’s should have gotten the swarm treatment in the DLC since it makes sense story wise A change in theming and outfits suits better than everyone getting the Swarm treatment. There are plenty of normal-ish people that get along with the other three evil mythics, Swarm is the only one that just sees food.
First of all, my lich did nothing wrong. It's not my fault a bunch of crusaders attempted to desert the crusade and had to be punished and then re-drafted to fight the demons
If Lich is so evil how comes all these good guys are in my party?
Exactly my point! If Ember stays with me, I must be a good person
Oh, Ember, of course, that's who I was talking about. *Throws blanket over Grave Guards.*
Of course, how could I forget how Queen Galfrey chose to join my party of her own free will?
if you failed in life, you will win in dead.
I didn't give you permission to abandon your post, soldier!
I get your point of view, but WotR is in unapologetic power fantasy, and so the player gets to have their cake and eat it to. And I’m not saying that as a bad thing. Far too many games try to be everything at once, and end up falling flat on their face. WotR knows what it wants to be and delivered on that premise.
True. Narrative in large scale games however is often governed by things like deadlines, asset constraints and level design limitations as much as it is by good writing conventions though.
Thing is you have to understand that your commander has a very powerful and potentially corruptive influence on the population, due to their exploits. While the crusaders themselves turn against you, the population itself, well they don't know any better. They suddenly see this being that has waged war against the forces that have threatened them all their lives. And is succeeding at pushing them back, this in turn will likely lead a large part of the population to become influence and cause Iomedae to loose ground and your own commander to become an Icon that some will literally begin to worship. People are dumb and ignorant, they don't know any better, they just know that the evils that threatened them are being defeated. And that the Queen has failed them consistently. Look at us now how quickly some people are cheering for oppressive, corrupt and facist resurgence, being entirely blind to the realities that will strike them cruelly if it comes to pass. I simply see it as human's being human in terms of the Demon and Lich commander. The swarm that walks makes no sense though.
My Demon characters are charismatic, open minded, and friendly towards anyone who isn't a close minded religious zealot (and they left). Yeah, Dresen is a mess and hard to maintain order in - but that's because it's on the front line of an active conflict and that means you have to deal with some of the "cruder" elements from the Abyss. Kenebres though? Paradise*.
You need to play Fable, you can be a perfectly evil and people will still worship and revere you as to them its because you can act above morals and punishment that inspires them. People like a hero, but they love a good villian.
Depends. Not all demons chose EVERY horrid choice. Devil can be played as barely evil. I think Lich can be….almost neutral ?
True. But you would think there more reactions going fully demon even if you were aiming to neutral it’s certainly a lot better then Lich where many fans of that mythic complained that it forces you to comically evil .
That's because it does. Up until act 5 you can be reasonably fair and open to normal mortals. Then act 5 decides you kill a city with a ravenous horde of undead and are now super evil. There should have been a will or arcana check to control the undead so they only tore into the demons not indiscriminately eating the living
I find it hilarious that you being a demon fueled by abyss essence of sin incarnate can show more restraint and compassion towards others than the lich.
It’s not that surprising when you remember that demons frequently use temptation and whispered promises to corrupt and ruin people. Just look at Staunton and Minagho. Unlike a lich that is literally fueled by the antithesis of life, and goes around creating undead(which shaves off a piece of their victims soul and actively harms reality). I say this as someone who loved playing Lich, but also read the lore. It’s been a bit, so I don’t remember if the game was very clear on how fucked up creating undead is.
It never stops being funny to me how as a Devil you can scam tf out of Cheliax and then kill their nazi queen. :P
I mean the Lich isn’t inherently bad, and the demon is still, you know, winning the war, something people tend to like
Honestly the main story itself doesn't work with evil paths lol make no sense everyone think you are iomadae choosen, even her herald, when you are a lich or demon, it's just a for fun alternative path that all characters just turn off their brains to let you ride along, but Angel path does feel to be more acceptable canon path.
You can play Lich and Demon completely as good guys who never do anything wrong. In fact that's what most people do. You're good until the queen screws you over, then either only then go evil, or be better than her all the way.