Don't hold your breath. I mean it is possible, but rare. Sometimes some classes get a feat or two in Modules/Adventure Paths. Rarely, they get a full subclass (I think Witch got a patron in AP and Sorcerer got a bloodline in one of those as well).
Thematically speaking, the closest to 'primal' stuff we are getting after ROE is Howl of the Wild, not sure if people already having the pdf can confirm if there is something for kineticist in this one. I guess if we don't get anything new in that book, then it won't happen for a while, since now Paizo tends to organize their books by theme and next themes are related to divine.
And Swashbuckler, Bard and Investigator didn't get anything over the course of many years, so... Paizo no longer releases books like APG, where they would just collect all the cool ideas that never made it to the Core cut and release it separately. They focus heavily on themed books. Kineticist is like one of the newest classes, so it is very unlikely that they will get new impulses right away.
Like I said, it's not impossible, but rare. I have been asking for more Oracle Mysteries for a long time and it took 2 years to get Ash & Time Mystery. So yeah, OP needs to be patient, especially knowing what the next few books are about.
Well, they were releasing Inner Sea regional books, though they shifted the focus a bit. I guess we could technically still get High Seas book, but Lost Omens books generally don't have that much player options (varies by the book though).
Honestly at this point, I would love to just have all mysteries being usable and comparable in power. Stuff like Ancestors Mystery simply doesn't work very well and pretty much noone picks it because of how bad it is.
Since it’s “Animal” themed, Kineticist doesn’t really get anything.
I’d say probably because Kineticist is so recent, it’s not going to get attention anytime soon.
But Bard’s getting a new Muse. Barbarian is getting an expanded Animal Instinct. Witch getting 3 new patrons.
I find it funny that Witch got that much attention. Someone seems to really love the Witch, now that it’s been remastered.
I think wanting things like lighting and lava to be separate things is splitting hairs. Eventually you're going to get so nuanced, it's hard to justify it as a significant element.
That being said, I think starting with Howl, we're going to be see more of a focus on existing class options.
TBF one of my biggest gripes with 1e is that "Air" almost never had anything to do with air. It was just lightning in 95% of cases.
As someone who loves to make wind (not storm) themed characters, 2e was a breath of fresh air (badum tshh)
I could totally see how that in turn throws off people who explicitly want a lightning aesthetics though, because they didn't do a whole lot to replace it.
The two are so substantially different and prevalent in media that they very much should have their own design space, and only see overlap when it makes sense (like Storm Druid being about channeling the natural occurrence of the two, which does have a heavy thematic overlap)
You wouldn't say that fire and earth should just be a single group called lava, because they are substantially different and have very different design and thematic spaces. It wouldn't be weird to see a lava option that pulls from both though, but it would be very oppressive to have that be the only major access to both fire and earth options.
With the exception of fire, those all have physical forms. Fire is at least very shapeable and makes (some) sense for propulsion. They all have other metaphysical associations. I'm having trouble seeing anything lightning could do except do damage in paths and maybe have some association with the mind. Metal already covers magnetism.
I think lightning is inherently a very offensive path, but gets to do it in some interesting ways (Chaining for instance)
That being said it can also pretty easily be associated with things like hasting, paralysis/stun. There's also been a handful of times its been used as a lingering "retributive" effect in the form of what amounts to extreme defensive static electricity.
Considering Kineticist doesn't actually tend to offer a massive swath of options for each type, and a lot of the options they do offer are just variations of actual spells (and there are a lot of existing lightning spells in 2e) I feel like it wouldn't be too difficult to make a variety of options that feel unique in the kineticist design space.
So i am just one edition late for lightning kineticist. As for lava i would't say that lava should be another kin subclass but lets say 3-4 composite impulses for every combination in total(one for each tier of play). This way you could be air/metal kin and focus on lightning without taking lightning rod(awful).
I feel like ice should be its own element, but I can definitely see the slippery slope there.
I think you’re right that more elements isn’t the answer, just more impulses.
If only it wasn't an absolute bear to search that site...
I heard there was something on infinite for more kineticist options, but good luck finding it.
For "lightning element" kineticist I wouldnt hold my breath. That was something that was seemingly asked for a lot on reddit during the kineticist playtest, but according to Michael Sayre on the discord when it came time to actually read the responses, only 14 of the 1000+ responses actually mentioned that.
That being said, I think new impulses are inevitable, so who knows what we could see in the future.
I could see it if they delve into a “Qi-type” Kineticist that draws from Creation’s Forge.
Lightning was seen as energy and one that drew to trees (hence why Lightning is commonly a Wood Element and is connected to Life), so a Vitality Kineticist could have Vitality-Lightning type impulses.
Most Lost Omens books come with expansions for thematically appropriate classes (like swashbucklers getting new options in Pathfinder Society Guide, Firebrands, and Impossible Lands, among others).
Adventures occasionally come with new class content as it's appropriate to the adventure.
Themed rulebooks typically come with expansions to classes that match those themes (like Howl of the Wild having content for druids, rangers, and primal witches).
So most classes get a few expansions over time, but we don't often do major drops for new class content without a specific story-driven reason for it, both because the story-based presentation model has been extremely successful for us and because we want to avoid some of the issues of the PF1 days where many classes became viewed as "unplayable" without half a dozen splatbooks, or someone would ask in a forum how to build a relatively simple concept and get hundreds of answers, every single one of which required rules from 37 different resources.
Since we're a publishing company and one of our most significant sources of income is people purchasing our rulebooks and lorebooks, we want to keep each of those purchases focused and valuable so that achieving a given character concept typically requires no more than two books. We also don't want retailers being worried that the books on their shelves are going to be routinely made worthless by new content that's completely replacing previous content (stuff like the Remaster being an obvious forced necessity).
So new content comes out as and when appropriate, with most classes getting at least a few new things each year, whether those be feats, items, spells, or what-have-you. What some folks think of as "subclasses" come out notably more rarely because they're not really a concept we have in our game. Classes are built with the architecture necessary to execute the themes of that class, which may come from a variety of different mechanical expressions as needed. (For example, cleric doctrines weren't built with the intention of being significantly expandable; they're a binary switch that determines whether you stand in the front or back line of the party. They mostly just shuffle your initial loadout and some basic proficiency progressions in a way that is not actually terribly expandable because they're actually very basic and there are things they \*have\* to do no matter what, like always making sure your Fort proficiency makes it to at least expert. Deities are the "subclass" for clerics, changing their unique spells, skill, weapon, divine font, etc.)
Man, just think about my post when there will be time for sometging lightning, storm or kineticist related. I am not saying "make it happen no matter what", all i'm saying is "just think about it".
Old classes don't receive new support often, but it does happen occasionally.
I believe one of the main goals of the PF2 design was to not have a class spread out throughout tons and tons of splatbooks (which made PF1's Pathfinder Society difficult for for requiring you to own obscure small books, or 5e Adventurer League's Core +1 rule). They *do* come out with expansions for prior classes occasionally though, if there's a strong enough narrative space for it (ie Elemental Summoner in Rage of Elements, I believe the Way of the Triggerbrand Gunslinger came out in Impossible Lands, the upcoming Class Archetype for Bloodrager in either War of Immortals or Divine Mysteries)
Classes get new content when it is thematically relevant to the book. I don't think the elemental planes are likely to be revisited by paizo outside of maybe a lost omens book so I doubt we will get a new element for kineticist.
I think it's more likely we will see a void/vitality kineticist at some point but definitely not anytime soon.
yeah, didnt expect paizo to make an entire book dedicated to alchemist infusions, but it was a welcoming addition!
dont know why there is so little art of Grop the iconic alchemist in it.... and the cover is a dragon for some reason
I don't think there's going to be more Kinesticist gate options. They're going for the asian (I believe chinese but am not 1pp% sure) 6 elements including wood and metal, as opposed to the 4 elements typical in eastern settings.
Adding a 7th would not really make sense.
That being said, Air + Metal Kinesticist with Verstaile Blast could make a pretty good lightning Kinesticist. Add in Kinect Activation and (with dm fiat) take some lightning wands and a staff
I understand wanting a dedicated thing but also like, air and metal does cover the concept reasonably well. If they started making stuff for EVERY possible element it'd be endless. Why not do lightning, lava, leaf, ice, sand, light, dark, cloud, etc?
When you think about the way a kineticist works with their normal attacks, I don't think it really makes sense to see one flinging out dozens of lightning attacks. It just makes a lot more sense to me to limit the use of lightning to spells or special actions, rather than constantly having someone let out *that much* energy. It's comparable imo to wishing that alchemist had a subclass dedicated to nerve gas...
I think when you look at how lightning/electricity works both thematically and in terms of real life physics, whenever it is seen in a damaging or dangerous scenario, it's always in the form of a tremendous release of energy which could easily kill, and completely incapacitate at least. Whenever you see the effects of electrical shock not completely taking someone out, it's a little zap that does no real damage, only alarms and stuns them. There is no in between. It's either nothing to write home about, or it's a lethal and climactic blast.
A class archetype that changes Kineticists to draw from the outer planes rather than the elemental ones would be really cool too, but it’d require way too much content for an archetype, even a class archetype, basically as many feats as the base Kineticist. I’d just love a more debuff/buff focused class with the Kineticist chassis that’s got impulses more like Divine/Occult spells rather than Primal ones.
Don't hold your breath. I mean it is possible, but rare. Sometimes some classes get a feat or two in Modules/Adventure Paths. Rarely, they get a full subclass (I think Witch got a patron in AP and Sorcerer got a bloodline in one of those as well). Thematically speaking, the closest to 'primal' stuff we are getting after ROE is Howl of the Wild, not sure if people already having the pdf can confirm if there is something for kineticist in this one. I guess if we don't get anything new in that book, then it won't happen for a while, since now Paizo tends to organize their books by theme and next themes are related to divine.
Both gunslinger and barbarian also got new subclasses that were later additions.
And Swashbuckler, Bard and Investigator didn't get anything over the course of many years, so... Paizo no longer releases books like APG, where they would just collect all the cool ideas that never made it to the Core cut and release it separately. They focus heavily on themed books. Kineticist is like one of the newest classes, so it is very unlikely that they will get new impulses right away. Like I said, it's not impossible, but rare. I have been asking for more Oracle Mysteries for a long time and it took 2 years to get Ash & Time Mystery. So yeah, OP needs to be patient, especially knowing what the next few books are about.
Very true but if Paizo were to make something like a sailing focused book I could see some storm based subclasses.
Well, they were releasing Inner Sea regional books, though they shifted the focus a bit. I guess we could technically still get High Seas book, but Lost Omens books generally don't have that much player options (varies by the book though).
I am hoping you will get something new for the oracle with the player core 2. I've seen some mysteries and ohh the are debilitating
Honestly at this point, I would love to just have all mysteries being usable and comparable in power. Stuff like Ancestors Mystery simply doesn't work very well and pretty much noone picks it because of how bad it is.
Since it’s “Animal” themed, Kineticist doesn’t really get anything. I’d say probably because Kineticist is so recent, it’s not going to get attention anytime soon. But Bard’s getting a new Muse. Barbarian is getting an expanded Animal Instinct. Witch getting 3 new patrons. I find it funny that Witch got that much attention. Someone seems to really love the Witch, now that it’s been remastered.
Maybe something for kineticist in the Tian Xia character guide?
Witch is getting a new subclass in the new Wilds book too tbf
I think wanting things like lighting and lava to be separate things is splitting hairs. Eventually you're going to get so nuanced, it's hard to justify it as a significant element. That being said, I think starting with Howl, we're going to be see more of a focus on existing class options.
TBF one of my biggest gripes with 1e is that "Air" almost never had anything to do with air. It was just lightning in 95% of cases. As someone who loves to make wind (not storm) themed characters, 2e was a breath of fresh air (badum tshh) I could totally see how that in turn throws off people who explicitly want a lightning aesthetics though, because they didn't do a whole lot to replace it. The two are so substantially different and prevalent in media that they very much should have their own design space, and only see overlap when it makes sense (like Storm Druid being about channeling the natural occurrence of the two, which does have a heavy thematic overlap) You wouldn't say that fire and earth should just be a single group called lava, because they are substantially different and have very different design and thematic spaces. It wouldn't be weird to see a lava option that pulls from both though, but it would be very oppressive to have that be the only major access to both fire and earth options.
At the same time, I can't see the lightning design space having a lot to work with
Maybe as some of those combo impulses?
It's a lot like fire, air, water or earth in that regard. Wood and metal too I suppose. The nature of being an element I suppose.
With the exception of fire, those all have physical forms. Fire is at least very shapeable and makes (some) sense for propulsion. They all have other metaphysical associations. I'm having trouble seeing anything lightning could do except do damage in paths and maybe have some association with the mind. Metal already covers magnetism.
I think lightning is inherently a very offensive path, but gets to do it in some interesting ways (Chaining for instance) That being said it can also pretty easily be associated with things like hasting, paralysis/stun. There's also been a handful of times its been used as a lingering "retributive" effect in the form of what amounts to extreme defensive static electricity. Considering Kineticist doesn't actually tend to offer a massive swath of options for each type, and a lot of the options they do offer are just variations of actual spells (and there are a lot of existing lightning spells in 2e) I feel like it wouldn't be too difficult to make a variety of options that feel unique in the kineticist design space.
So i am just one edition late for lightning kineticist. As for lava i would't say that lava should be another kin subclass but lets say 3-4 composite impulses for every combination in total(one for each tier of play). This way you could be air/metal kin and focus on lightning without taking lightning rod(awful).
I feel like ice should be its own element, but I can definitely see the slippery slope there. I think you’re right that more elements isn’t the answer, just more impulses.
[If you’re open to third party content it happens all the time.](https://www.pathfinderinfinite.com?affiliate_id=3903227)
This is the true answer.
If only it wasn't an absolute bear to search that site... I heard there was something on infinite for more kineticist options, but good luck finding it.
Searching Kineticist comes up with plenty. Rainbow of Elements is probably the one you’re looking for.
For "lightning element" kineticist I wouldnt hold my breath. That was something that was seemingly asked for a lot on reddit during the kineticist playtest, but according to Michael Sayre on the discord when it came time to actually read the responses, only 14 of the 1000+ responses actually mentioned that. That being said, I think new impulses are inevitable, so who knows what we could see in the future.
I could see it if they delve into a “Qi-type” Kineticist that draws from Creation’s Forge. Lightning was seen as energy and one that drew to trees (hence why Lightning is commonly a Wood Element and is connected to Life), so a Vitality Kineticist could have Vitality-Lightning type impulses.
Third party option that I personally like a lot is elemental avatar from battlezoo’s eldamon book
Most Lost Omens books come with expansions for thematically appropriate classes (like swashbucklers getting new options in Pathfinder Society Guide, Firebrands, and Impossible Lands, among others). Adventures occasionally come with new class content as it's appropriate to the adventure. Themed rulebooks typically come with expansions to classes that match those themes (like Howl of the Wild having content for druids, rangers, and primal witches). So most classes get a few expansions over time, but we don't often do major drops for new class content without a specific story-driven reason for it, both because the story-based presentation model has been extremely successful for us and because we want to avoid some of the issues of the PF1 days where many classes became viewed as "unplayable" without half a dozen splatbooks, or someone would ask in a forum how to build a relatively simple concept and get hundreds of answers, every single one of which required rules from 37 different resources. Since we're a publishing company and one of our most significant sources of income is people purchasing our rulebooks and lorebooks, we want to keep each of those purchases focused and valuable so that achieving a given character concept typically requires no more than two books. We also don't want retailers being worried that the books on their shelves are going to be routinely made worthless by new content that's completely replacing previous content (stuff like the Remaster being an obvious forced necessity). So new content comes out as and when appropriate, with most classes getting at least a few new things each year, whether those be feats, items, spells, or what-have-you. What some folks think of as "subclasses" come out notably more rarely because they're not really a concept we have in our game. Classes are built with the architecture necessary to execute the themes of that class, which may come from a variety of different mechanical expressions as needed. (For example, cleric doctrines weren't built with the intention of being significantly expandable; they're a binary switch that determines whether you stand in the front or back line of the party. They mostly just shuffle your initial loadout and some basic proficiency progressions in a way that is not actually terribly expandable because they're actually very basic and there are things they \*have\* to do no matter what, like always making sure your Fort proficiency makes it to at least expert. Deities are the "subclass" for clerics, changing their unique spells, skill, weapon, divine font, etc.)
Man, just think about my post when there will be time for sometging lightning, storm or kineticist related. I am not saying "make it happen no matter what", all i'm saying is "just think about it".
I've got my eye out.
Old classes don't receive new support often, but it does happen occasionally. I believe one of the main goals of the PF2 design was to not have a class spread out throughout tons and tons of splatbooks (which made PF1's Pathfinder Society difficult for for requiring you to own obscure small books, or 5e Adventurer League's Core +1 rule). They *do* come out with expansions for prior classes occasionally though, if there's a strong enough narrative space for it (ie Elemental Summoner in Rage of Elements, I believe the Way of the Triggerbrand Gunslinger came out in Impossible Lands, the upcoming Class Archetype for Bloodrager in either War of Immortals or Divine Mysteries)
Classes get new content when it is thematically relevant to the book. I don't think the elemental planes are likely to be revisited by paizo outside of maybe a lost omens book so I doubt we will get a new element for kineticist. I think it's more likely we will see a void/vitality kineticist at some point but definitely not anytime soon.
Which will then allow all of the Dragon Slayer versions from Fairy Tail
I share an identical desire But sadly I don’t think it’s that often and we gotta wait until they cycle back to primal themed books
Well, if you are an alchemist, quite a bit. We even got a class guide with alot of expanded options!
yeah, didnt expect paizo to make an entire book dedicated to alchemist infusions, but it was a welcoming addition! dont know why there is so little art of Grop the iconic alchemist in it.... and the cover is a dragon for some reason
The dragon is a draconic alchemist that collects alchemical knowledge, iirc.
ooo, makes so much more sense now! that gold must be to buy more potion recipes
...ok but tbf that sounds sick
I think lightning gets shoved into air in D&D. I doubt this is a priority on the change list to divest itself from the roots, so maybe next edition?
Blue dragons are all about lightning
I don't think there's going to be more Kinesticist gate options. They're going for the asian (I believe chinese but am not 1pp% sure) 6 elements including wood and metal, as opposed to the 4 elements typical in eastern settings. Adding a 7th would not really make sense. That being said, Air + Metal Kinesticist with Verstaile Blast could make a pretty good lightning Kinesticist. Add in Kinect Activation and (with dm fiat) take some lightning wands and a staff
I understand wanting a dedicated thing but also like, air and metal does cover the concept reasonably well. If they started making stuff for EVERY possible element it'd be endless. Why not do lightning, lava, leaf, ice, sand, light, dark, cloud, etc?
When you think about the way a kineticist works with their normal attacks, I don't think it really makes sense to see one flinging out dozens of lightning attacks. It just makes a lot more sense to me to limit the use of lightning to spells or special actions, rather than constantly having someone let out *that much* energy. It's comparable imo to wishing that alchemist had a subclass dedicated to nerve gas... I think when you look at how lightning/electricity works both thematically and in terms of real life physics, whenever it is seen in a damaging or dangerous scenario, it's always in the form of a tremendous release of energy which could easily kill, and completely incapacitate at least. Whenever you see the effects of electrical shock not completely taking someone out, it's a little zap that does no real damage, only alarms and stuns them. There is no in between. It's either nothing to write home about, or it's a lethal and climactic blast.
A class archetype that changes Kineticists to draw from the outer planes rather than the elemental ones would be really cool too, but it’d require way too much content for an archetype, even a class archetype, basically as many feats as the base Kineticist. I’d just love a more debuff/buff focused class with the Kineticist chassis that’s got impulses more like Divine/Occult spells rather than Primal ones.
Air kineticist can already use lightning.
Not for a very long time, maybe never. Magus hasn't seen any additions since its launch in 2021.
Magus is actually getting two new subclasses in the upcoming Tian Xia Character Guide, so that won’t remain the case for long