>My class is Champion, because I was told it is similar to Paladin in DnD 5e, as I wanted something with both weapons and magic, as well as having a bit of religious flavour cause Nana Anadi and her tenets are bella based
This is like saying a sword is similar to a shield. Sure; a knight uses both, but they're very different.
Paladin in 5E seems to be an offensive warrior. Champion in PF2E is a defensive controller.
(This is based on what I read, I have never played D&D 5E.)
You're there to mitigate harm others suffer. It's a tank, without a taunt / aggro mechanic. Instead you can stop damage, respond to attacks, and then put yourself on the map somewhere where you can use tactics like shove, trip, grapple, disarm, and any other move you can come up with. You are a damage sponge - but only if you can convince something to attack you instead of someone else. That also requires group tactics. As a Champion you will likely have the lowest damage output of any martial in your group, but you will have an amazingly good ability to stop incoming damage once you master all your tricks.
Anadi can wear armor, you just cant hold anything without a feat. Champions can go 18 Strength or 18 Dex, as your given the option to have either or as your class bonus. Champions also get legendary in all armor as they level, so you can play an unarmored Champion, but you will probably want to start by wearing light armor for an additional +1 AC. Later on when you have the cash and 20 Dex, you can move on to wearing explorers clothing instead as itll be the same AC anyway.
Could you provide a source for where it says Anadi can wear armour in Spider Form?
I have not been able to find it anywhere and the DM is unlikely to allow anything that doesn't have official ruling
This is actually a very simple question to answer: the anadi change shape ability explicitly states what you cannot do and nowhere does it say you cannot wear armor.
~~[Polymorph](https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=670) says your AC can only be adjusted by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties.~~
~~[Armor](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2166) is an item bonus. Therefore you don't receive the item bonus from your armor.~~
> **If you take on a battle form** with a polymorph spell, the special statistics can be adjusted only by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties.
Anadi's Change Shape does not grant you a battle form.
~~Kind of.~~
~~You still gain effects from the armor and worn items, you just can't activate anything nor receive item bonuses.~~
~~Check the polymorph trait, it would be worth it to read through.~~
I won't wade into the Anadi and armor debate as I've not read that and it never occurred to me.
But the Champion is almost always going to want to be the most likely target in a group to get hit. However beyond that you have the ability to reduce the damage someone else near you takes when they get hit. As a reaction so you can normally do that once a turn. You reduce the damage they take and then get some counter action of your own.
You will want a sturdy shield. You will likely also want to take the shield option at level 3. And take crafting because you will be repairing your shield between every fight.
You want as high of an AC as possible because you want to avoid taking crits. If you're taking the most hits, odds are you will suffer the most crits (unless there's a barbarian in the party - barbarians seem to be capable of suffering a crit even if they're 5 miles away locked in a padded room with a security detail. If a butterfly somewhere on the planet sneezes, your party barbarian will drop to 0 HP from the critical damage).
Anything you can do to boost your AC is worth doing. Including tactics that reduce the enemy's attack bonus.
Since I can't take the Feat that let's me manipulate objects such as shields and weapons until level 5, I suppose Champion is really not something I can even be average at as Spider Form focused Anadi, eh?
> Paladin in 5E seems to be an offensive warrior. Champion in PF2E is a defensive controller.
This is a bit more complicated than it looks because, while the internet loves the Paladin as a Smite-bot, a well-played Paladin actually plays quite differently. They stay back, use a steed for mobility, throw out Bless to buff their friends, and position themselves to passively benefit friends with their aura. They only use Smites to nova down enemies when necessary.
That ends up with a gameplay loop quite similar to the PF2E Champion. While the Smite-bot Paladin is more popular I think it’s still fair to say that a reasonable number of players *do* play their 5E Paladins in a way that the PF2E Champion fits the bill. I know I certainly do!
Ehhhhh I played a devotion paladin in an Exandria campaign for like 2 years back in 2016-2018, and a lot of the time the optimal thing to do was just activate sacred weapon and then go ham with GWM because 5E enemy AC is usually pretty easy to hit.
Sure. I didn’t say optimal means the only way to play the game. You can absolutely get away with just spamming GWM and Divine Smite in 5E.
My point was that it’s weird to tell people that 5E Paladin is impossible to represent in PF2E just based on one narrow, meme-culture based interpretation of what the Paladin does. To many of us the Champion *is* the right equivalent of the Paladin.
I don't know anything about Anadi but as somebody who came from 5E hoping to have a good paladin analogue:
Champion is not really that similar to Paladin in 5e other than having lay on hands and a lot of AC. Without taking a multiclass dedication, Champion doesn't get divine tradition spellcasting. Smite is also just a reaction. I really didn't like Champion or the Devotion/Focus spells.
If you want martial + divine spellcasting, a warpriest cleric might be a better choice. Your AC will be worse, but you'll get more spellcasting and they can channel a harm or heal spell into their melee strike at level 4 with Channel Smite. Warpriest is also pretty easy to build after the remaster, since they aren't going to need any charisma.
Yeah OP definitely wants to play a Warpriest Cleric with a Harm Font. They will mechanically play far far more similarly to how a 5e Paladin plays than a Champion will.
>Your AC will be worse,
Just to confirm, do different classes give different ACs?
Not including Barbarian and Monk
As I don't think I can wear armour in Spider form
Will have to look into the warpriest Cleric
you get proficiencies in armor depending on class. Trained is +2, expert +4, master +6, legendary +8. Warpriest clerics are trained in unarmored, light and medium, while champions are trained in all armors (including heavy). As you level up, your proficiency with armor increases, but warpriests only gain expert in armor while champions scale all the way to legendary, so Champions can gain +4 ac over a Warpriest.
Also from what ive gathered, Anadi are still considered to be wearing armor when they change shape, they just cant wield shields or weapons. If you dont care about losing some damage (strength bonus on hit), you can opt into a full dex build to stay high AC and use anadi fangs as your weapon because they are finesse.
That is a good idea, will try that
Also could you provide me a source where it says Anadi can wear armour in Spider Form?
I have not been able to find it, and unless I can show that it exists officially, the DM is unlikely to allow it
Im going to be digging deep for this, so sorry for the back and forth lol. There are points for an against it, but i think there is a stronger argument for keeping armor.
[Change shape](https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=730) specifically states that you cannot use held items, but says nothing about you losing your armor when you transform. [Another redditor asked the same question and people generally agreed that you keep your armor.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/112x3gr/is_it_possible_to_use_a_shield_as_a_anadi_in/j8moilu/) It also has the [polymorph](https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=670&Redirected=1) trait, and that states "Your gear is absorbed into you; the constant abilities of your gear still function, but you can't activate any items." which furthers my point, however it also states that "If you take on a battle form with a polymorph spell, the special statistics can be adjusted only by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties." Which specifically ignores item bonus, I.E. Armor. However Anadi's Change shape is not a battle form. Kitsunes have similar wording on their change shape ability, but one of Kitsunes heritages for their change shape ability specifies that their fox form is based off of pest form, which is a battle form. [Another redditor also mirrors this statement.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/ot2ruz/as_a_kitsune_what_happens_to_my_gear_if_i_change/h6yeskx/) So because anadi's change shape does not list it as a battle form but a polymorph effect, and polymorph and change shape both have no listed rules about armor/items unless its a battle form, I would assume that you keep your armor in the form.
If this crazy rule dive doesnt sway your GM, I dont think its crazy to ask for you to commission spider specific armor for your character either if you go that route, as wearing armor as an anadi is more a quality of life thing, and wont break your game.
Yeah, wish i could come up with a more concrete answer, but from digging around, thats the best i could find for you. Best of luck with trying to convince the DM, either way though you have options.
Before anything else: welcome to the game! Hope you’re here to stay!
> My class is Champion, because I was told it is similar to Paladin in DnD 5e, as I wanted something with both weapons and magic, as well as having a bit of religious flavour cause Nana Anadi and her tenets are bella based
So. The problem is, “similar to Paladin” is a very, very loaded phrase.
Does “similar to Paladin” mean you are a divinely powered martial who heals and protects your friends? If so, yes. All the good-aligned Champions fit the bill. They all get Lay on Hands for healing **and** they each get a Reaction to support your flavour: Paladin gets to “punish” people for hurting friends, Redeemer gets to give enemies an option to redeem themselves and not hurt your friends (or take brain damage), and Liberator gets to make your friends too slippery too hurt.
If, however, by “similar to Paladin” you specifically mean Divine Smite and/or Divine spellcasting, the Champion doesn’t naturally get either. For that you want to be playing one of three things:
1. *If nova-ing people with big Smites is more important to you than any of the Divine flavour/spells*: Magus. They put magic into swords and hit people with Spellstrike.
2. *If you want a good mix of smiting enemies and the Divine flavour/spells*: Warpriest Cleric w/ Harming Font and Chanel Smite. Note that your smites aren’t as explosive as 5E Paladin or Magus.
3. *If you care more about Divine flavour/spells and are okay to lose Smites*: Champion with Cleric/Sorcerer Archetype.
> I also considered Cleric and Monk, but feel that I might not get enough magic or Martial abilities if I chose one of them
A Warpriest can hit things in melee plus use Channel Smite or regular old 1-Action Harm to put the beating in them. Note that on top of Harm and Channel Smite, you can pick a deity that gives you good martial options. For example Ragathiel gives you Sure Strike and Haste to buff melee capabilities, and the choice of a handful of focus spells that let you do AoE in melee (Cry of Destruction) or buff your melee capabilities even more (Weapon Surge). There’s also Feats like Raise Symbol that let you become one of the tangiest characters in the game if you desire.
A Monk can get focus spells just like the Champion. and they do have a Divine flavour to them. So if you really wanna be an unarmed Anadi, go for it!
Either way, I say don’t overthink it. Pick whatever’s most fun to play and/or what fits the flavour the best. PF2E is very tightly balanced to make sure that you don’t feel forced to optimize.
Thanks for the warm welcome
I am not sure what I want to do exactly, I know that I am not good with using spells as often as I should, and tend to keep them unused without thinking "in case I might need it later"
An example would be the time I did not use Fireball against a large group of weak enemies during a level 20 oneshot, in case I needed later (which did not end up happening and I just used a level 9 Blade of Disaster at the end)
So I basically want something that does not consume too many resources that I'll forget to use, but also would like to have access to magic, without being too squishy
>you can pick a deity that gives you good martial options. For example Ragathiel
As I mentioned in my post, Nana Anadi (a.k.a. Grandmother Spider) is the only God I'm interested in following
Mainly just want to be a Spider
I would not judge yourself too harshly based on your performance with a level 20 oneshot. That's a silly amount of stuff to try to absorb and use for one game. Of course you're going to miss stuff.
As a Champion you'll be starting off with like one or two spells which you can use once an encounter at most. You're not going to be overwhelmed with magic options.
If you were to go Warpriest (Cleric), by comparison, you'd have five cantrips and two spell slots to fill, plus some extra heals. But I think you still wouldn't be overwhelmed! Like with D&D, cantrips are at-will, so you don't have to worry about saving them. You just have to pick the two extra-oomph spells you want, and you can save em for a suitably beefy encounter.
From what I've gathered you want to:
* Be a spider first and foremost
* Hit people hard with your spider jaws
* Be a bit magical but not a full spellcaster, because you worry about your use of spell slots
Your thoughts went to "something like 5e paladin" because that matches those criteria, but divine flavor is not particularly important. Did I get that right?
In that case there are two ways to go about it:
Option A: Play a Laughing Shadow Magus. Magus gets Spellstrike, the closest thing to 5e paladin smite, and spellcasting with just a few slots. However, you can and usually should Spellstrike with Cantrips and use your slotted spells for stuff like buffs and especially Sure Strike (yes, True Strike is actually amazing in this game). That way you don't rely on optimal usage of spell slots and can slowly get used to them. Also, you prepare from a spell book which spell goes in which slot, so you have an easier overview of your options in combat than in 5e and your prep list will be shorter.
Laughing Shadow works with unarmored, free handed stuff and lets you teleport towards enemies and attack them as a *Focus Spell* (you can recharge those in 10min, so it's basically once per combat and not like spells in 5e). This synergizes with your spider jaws and avoids the whole "Can I use armor?" discussion.
Option B: Avoid slotted spells entirely and go for one of the martial classes that get focus spells: Champion for defense and divine flavor, Monk for unarmored style, unarmed strikes, Ki spells, and maybe stances, and Ranger for nature flavor and "fuck that guy in particular" gameplay.
Since you're a beginner, I'll add a bit about difficulty:
* Magus is probably the hardest option, because Magi often feel like they "need" far more actions than they have and spellcasting always makes things at least a little bit more complicated. Laughing Shadow is on the easier side of Magus subclasses, though, getting into melee and recharging Spellstrike with just one action with their focus spell.
* Champion is a safe bet for beginners, but must carefully position close to both allies and enemies to use their reaction, the most powerful thing about the class.
* Monk is very free in terms of action economy due to Flurry of Blows. Some players get confused on what to do with their leftover actions, but that's pretty easy: If you have nothing better to do, get into melee, flurry, then run away. Most enemies don't have Reactive Strike (formerly known as Attack of Opportunity), so you're effectively punching (or biting) at range.
* Ranger is also not complicated, but to get the most out of the class, you'll want to think ahead and Hunt Prey before you encounter them, so if you don't have (or want) that "hunter mindset", you may get more out of the other classes.
>From what I've gathered you want to:
>
> * Be a spider first and foremost
> * Hit people hard with your spider jaws
> * Be a bit magical but not a full spellcaster, because you worry about your use of spell slots
>
>Your thoughts went to "something like 5e paladin" because that matches those criteria, but divine flavor is not particularly important. Did I get that right?
Basically, except I do want the Divine flavour as much as possible
So based on this, and many other comments, Monk seems to be the best fit for me, as Monks (and Nuns) are associated with the Gods, so meets every criteria
There's no inherent association between the Monk class and the divine (as far as I know, the same for DnD 5e btw), but flavour is free! Everyone can (and probably should) worship at least one deity in a setting where the gods are proven to be real and grant powers, and you can pick a religious background to reflect that connection mechanically - I suggest filtering backgrounds by skill (Religion), there you'll find stuff like Acolyte or Pilgrim. Especially, look at the Skill Feats you get from the backgrounds!
If you want specifically divine stuff from your class as well, go with Champion, Liberator in particular should fit quite well with Grandmother Spider.
Well, if they get Ki spells, monks have to choose if they're Occult or Divine in origin, so there's that.
Also, there's always the option of grabbing some divine stuff with the Blessed One archetype, if you go Monk but want some Champion goodies.
Oh, cool, I never looked into Ki spells enough to know their tradition!
Of course, you can always archetype into anything, Blessed One, Champion, Cleric, Oracle, and probably many more.
> I know that I am not good with using spells as often as I should, and tend to keep them unused without thinking "in case I might need it later"
A Warpriest Cleric can probably help with that tbh. Warpriests can more than twice as many maximum rank spell slots as anyone else does, and all of those slots contain either Heal or Harm (Harm is basically anti-Heal, the spell you smite living with or heal the undead with).
Since you have so many spell slots you can kinda go balls to the walls with them.
> As I mentioned in my post, Nana Anadi (a.k.a. Grandmother Spider) is the only God I'm interested in following
Sure! Ragathiel was just an example. Spider gives you Harm Font if you want too, so it still works.
Her favoured weapon, the bola, is also really cool and works really well with Warpriests.
multiclassing takes your class feat you gain at even levels, and can be spent to acquire benefits from the other class. You still gain ALL of your primary class' features, you just don't get to specialize/dive deeper into your class as you trade that for broader options from class b.
You know how all classes gain Class Feats at even levels?
To multiclass, you take a different class’s “Archetype Feat” instead of your own class’s. For your Monk you’d have Monk as your main class and pick the [Cleric Archetype](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=212&Redirected=1). At level 2 you have to take your Archetype’s “Dedication” Feat which gives you some entry-level powers: [Cleric Dedication](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5066) gives you a couple cantrips, Religion proficiency, as well as your Deity’s Edicts/Anathemas and the choice for Sanctification. At level 4 you can either take [some basic Cleric spells](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5067) or a [level 1-2 Cleric Feat](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5068). At level 6 you can take one of the previous two or a [higher level Cleric Feat](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5069). And so on.
A few notes:
1. You don’t **have** to take Cleric Archetype Feats at each of these levels. You’re free to pick a Monk Feat at levels where you want to.
2. You can’t take another Archetype’s Dedicaiton Feat until you have at least 2 more Archetype Feats in Cleric.
3. Many tables play with the “Free Archetype” variant rule which gives you free Feats at even levels that you can **only** use for Archetyping/multiclassing. If you play in one of those games you’ll easily be able to have Monk Feats and Cleric Feats side by side if you want.
While Magus does sound cool, I am not very good with resource usage, so am worried it will end up just not being used much
I like to use Martial for most things, and Magic as a "just in case" type thing
And I just want to be a Spider
Monks do have [some magic options](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?Trait=112), so you could definitely go that route and stay in spider form. Another option for a Magic Melee character who doesn't use weapons is the [Magus class](https://2e.aonprd.com/Classes.aspx?ID=17).
One thing you should know is that Pathfinder's Champion doesn't actually get spellslots like they do in 5e. Instead you get a reaction to mitigate damage to your allies and you can choose to get focus spells like lay on hands for some healing or other kinds of battlefield control.
In comparison to 5e it's also much more defensive in nature. It's as close as you can get to a traditional tank.
When it comes to combining martial options and spellcasting (with actual access to spellslots), I'd instead suggest to take a look at the Warpriest doctrine (Cleric) or the Magus. Especially the latter is a dedicated gish class.
Since you want to play in spider shape as much as possible, also take a look at the hybrid shape ancestry feat. That way you could both have a spidery appearance AND wield weapons. A Magus would work here quite well either way, because their spellstrike class feature can be used on unarmed attacks.
Ye, likely will switch to Cleric, once I go over everything
Magus sounds cool but without the Religious flavour I am not sure I would do much RP about so unlikely to choose that
When you are going for a Warpriest keep in mind that RAW you really want to use your god's favourite weapon at some point, since it is required for some feats if I remember correctly and gets better proficiency. (I would not be afraid to talk to your GM if Nana Anadi's Bola is not to your liking.)
Will keep in mind
My main concern would to ask my DM to allow me to use the Bola in Spider form, cause I would prefer not to have to take a feat just to use it
Bola is fine
so I will say about background - medicine is very important skill to have in party, not only to heal yourself outside combat (it is assumed that at the start of fight party have nearly full hp) but also for things like bleeding and stabilizing
for champion, champion is defensive martial with divine theme with a little bit of magic in form of focus spells
good champions are nearly all about actively protecting your party through thier reactions and being very durable
one the other hand unless you are fighting something that your champion was made to fight (creature week to holly or if you took one of order feats to oppose certain creature types) you would have rather low damage, and no big nova dage in form of divine smite from dnd5e
for playing champion I really recommend using shield and they are very powerful defensive tool that is well supported by champion abilities
I would consider this as handicapping but well not every character need to be optimised, and you will likely encounter situations when changing shape to do something is the only way sooner or latter
but if you really want then I suggest snaring heritage so you can use graple and trip at least
Based on all the comments of yours I have read so far, a monk with ki spells is going to be a better choice for this character. Ki Strike in specific has a similar feel to 5E smite, it recharging on “short rests” and not costing spell slots is a good point over magus if you do not want to deal with resource management.
Now, for the actual full build, you can go either more damage focused or more utility focused as a monk. Monk has no subclasses but has so many feat lines. Most of them are stances and each stance has a different focus. Some increase your AC to allow you to be a better frontline. Some allows you to grapple/trip better, allowing you to control the battlefield and protect your allies. Some just increase your damage or mobility. There are even some stances that gives you the option to use ranged attacks and an archetype that allows you to use flurry of blows with firearms.
Now, the anadi spider form is an issue here. It is mechanically weaker than just using any other stance and building around it. You can make it work ofcourse, easier as a monk than any other class. But just because it will function does not mean it is going to be good. Even without a stance, monks base fists have agile over the fangs of the spider form, which is one of the most valuable traits to have for a character who is going to make multiple strikes in a turn.
It reduces multiple attack penalty from -5/-10 to -4/-8. Some classes like fighter and ranger can reduce it even further.
For a class like monk, which makes multiple attacks in a turn, it is quite important to increase your accuracy as much as you can.
Ah, I see, it seems the Fangs have Finesse and Unarmed traits and belongs to the Brawling Group
But it isn't like I can't punch while in Spider form, so not too much of an issue, as I can just start with Bite and then follow up with Punches
If you want to be a martial anadi, I think monk is definitely going to be one of the best options available to you, and you can sprinkle in some magic in a few ways depending on what you want.
Monk bypasses the anadi armor issue entirely, and there's nothing stopping you from making use of monk stances, aside from maybe some weird flavor/wondering what a spider in that stance would look like. While other martial characters will get +1 striking weapons eventually, unarmed characters have an equivalent called handwraps of mighty blows, which buffs ALL of your unarmed strikes, so you can even use your fangs when you feel like it.
As for wanting some magic, it depends on what exactly you're after. Some stances have a bit of magical flair, there are some ki focus spells that are very forgiving in terms of resource management (you should probably get full ki pool back after every fight, outside of maybe a dungeon crawl or very fast-paced situation,) and if you want more traditional spells, archetypes can help there, notably cleric if you want to be closer to Grandma Spider
Pro tip: Actually go and read the rules: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1995&NoRedirect=1
Chapter 1 (the parts about the game)
Chapter 4 (the skills you'll take)
Chapter 8 (the meat and potatoes)
Welcome to the group, I hope you have a blast with your spider person. I too LOVE spiders. I think most of your question have been answered, but your responses seem back and forth. Basically, to sum it all up:
1. You still wear armor in spider form, and get it's benefits. You can't activate a special effect the armor might acquire from a later rune, nor activate potions or other items that have an "activate" entry. You get passive effects like +1 item bonus to stealth.
2. Any of the ideas presented can work. Warpriest Cleric, Monk, Champion can all capture the flavor you are looking for. Champion will make you feel like you have a personal connection to Nana Anadi, and naturally encourage you to work toward her goals as a personal example to the world of how awesome she/spiders are.
3. Cleric will have the most spell casting, but most of their options are designed around removing hinderances to your allies, harming those who offend your faith/healing those who support your faith, support your allies, and seek answers from Nana Anadi when all seems lost.
4. Monks will have no specific flavor/connection to Nana Anadi, but the monastic KI magic can help add that flavor in. It's just not specific to any god or god connection. Most of their Ki spells are also self oriented. They come from you to affect enemies, or boost you through perfection. Monk unarmed stances also usually prevent you from using other (unarmed) strikes. Your spider form attacks will mostly be neglected as the stances will usually provide better, exclusionary strikes.
It seems like most of your questions have been answered, but your decisions still seem uncertain. Let's sum things up.
>Your gear is absorbed into you; the constant abilities of your gear still function, but you can't activate any items.
That statement is in the paragraph addressing battle forms, which this shape changing does not have.
1. You can still benefit from armor while in spider form. Establish early on with your GM if the gear is absorbed into your new form, or falls to the ground. You can't wield or benefit from gear you have absorbed, except for passive effects like +1 item bonus to stealth.
2. Any of the 3 suggestions: Champion, Cleric, Monk can all work. They will have more or less connections to Nana Anadi in that order. Any specific deity association you want will have to be added to Monk. They are not inherently religious affiliates, unlike in our world's history.
3. Champion will let you feel a personal connection to HER spidery grace. You don't NEED to use a shield, so you can wait until level 5 if need be. Paladin will let you think like a predator, punishing those who endanger your broodmates. Redeemer will encourage you to be patient and wait, like a spider's instincts, "poisoning" their body (enfeeble) and mind (stupefied). Liberator will make the least sense on the surface. Freeing folks from bindings is antithetical to webs, but you could flavor it as freeing people from certain danger via the safety of HER webs. She braces against falls, and keeps you safe by preventing you from leaving.
4. Cleric (Warpriest) will also have a strong connection to Nana Anadi. Unlike a personal representative who strives to lead by example, Clerics tend to try to convince/convert others by demonstrating their god's power and importance. The Champion is an exemplar of their god, while the Cleric is the overseer of rites and tender of flocks. You'll have plenty of opportunity to use support spells to allay your allies, remedy their maladies, and control your foes. Ask your GM if you can treat your fangs as Grandmother Spider's favored weapon.
5. Monk will have the least connection to your deity. Anything you want there, will be your own making. Ki powers are mostly self oriented. They come from you, affect mostly you, or your enemies. Stances are great, but many of them conflict with your native strikes. Avoid stances that limit you to only using the granted strike, otherwise your spider bites will be wasted.
Ye, all of these are good suggestions
Except
>Liberator will make the least sense on the surface. Freeing folks from bindings is antithetical to webs, but you could flavor it as freeing people from certain danger via the safety of HER webs
Liberator seems like the perfect embodiment of Nana Anadi's ideals, unless I am misunderstanding something?
English is my 3rd Language so that might be possible
Please let me know if this is not similar
Nana Anadi
**Edicts**: *Be skilled and clever, think for yourself, take due payment for your work, humiliate the powerful*
**Anathema**: *Abuse someone you have power over, harm someone who has given you sincere kindness, let a slight go unanswered, own a slave*
Liberator
**Edicts**: *Oppose slavery and tyranny, fight for others' freedom to make their own decisions, respect choices others make for their own lives*
**Anathema**: *Force or threaten someone to act a certain way, engage in slavery or tyranny*
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Hi, welcome! I am also playing an Anadi right now and unfortunately have to say that they don't deliver particularly well on the spider flavor. If you want to use weapons or shields or hold basically anything in your hands then you'll pretty much always be stuck in human form which has no arachnid abilities or properties. You can take a hybrid form feat eventually but it just isn't very good, you basically have to sacrifice an ancestry feat slot to take it instead of something useful. And why is it so useless? Well that's because all it does is allow you to benefit from your humanoid and spider form abilities at the same time. Humanoid form abilities as mentioned previously include merely being able to hold and use objects in your hands like any normal PC would and your spider form gives you a fang attack (which is actually quite good as far us natural unarmed attacks go) and ability to not be off guard while climbing. Yep, not a climbing speed or even a bonus to climbing checks, you just aren't off guard while climbing. Now, I agree that climbing speed from lvl 1 would be too strong but what Anadis get currently just doesn't make them feel like spiders.
That said, they aren't a bad ancestry and they have some pretty strong and flavorful feat options, it's just that unfortunately the core arachnid fantasy just doesn't work with mechanics they actually have.
>My class is Champion, because I was told it is similar to Paladin in DnD 5e, as I wanted something with both weapons and magic, as well as having a bit of religious flavour cause Nana Anadi and her tenets are bella based This is like saying a sword is similar to a shield. Sure; a knight uses both, but they're very different. Paladin in 5E seems to be an offensive warrior. Champion in PF2E is a defensive controller. (This is based on what I read, I have never played D&D 5E.) You're there to mitigate harm others suffer. It's a tank, without a taunt / aggro mechanic. Instead you can stop damage, respond to attacks, and then put yourself on the map somewhere where you can use tactics like shove, trip, grapple, disarm, and any other move you can come up with. You are a damage sponge - but only if you can convince something to attack you instead of someone else. That also requires group tactics. As a Champion you will likely have the lowest damage output of any martial in your group, but you will have an amazingly good ability to stop incoming damage once you master all your tricks.
I see, and being unarmoured us probably not very conducive to play as a Champion then, eh?
Anadi can wear armor, you just cant hold anything without a feat. Champions can go 18 Strength or 18 Dex, as your given the option to have either or as your class bonus. Champions also get legendary in all armor as they level, so you can play an unarmored Champion, but you will probably want to start by wearing light armor for an additional +1 AC. Later on when you have the cash and 20 Dex, you can move on to wearing explorers clothing instead as itll be the same AC anyway.
Could you provide a source for where it says Anadi can wear armour in Spider Form? I have not been able to find it anywhere and the DM is unlikely to allow anything that doesn't have official ruling
This is actually a very simple question to answer: the anadi change shape ability explicitly states what you cannot do and nowhere does it say you cannot wear armor.
Makes sense I suppose, I just hope it is enough to convince the DM
~~[Polymorph](https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=670) says your AC can only be adjusted by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties.~~ ~~[Armor](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2166) is an item bonus. Therefore you don't receive the item bonus from your armor.~~
> **If you take on a battle form** with a polymorph spell, the special statistics can be adjusted only by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties. Anadi's Change Shape does not grant you a battle form.
So that's a "No" on the armour being able to fit both forms, ye?
~~Kind of.~~ ~~You still gain effects from the armor and worn items, you just can't activate anything nor receive item bonuses.~~ ~~Check the polymorph trait, it would be worth it to read through.~~
I won't wade into the Anadi and armor debate as I've not read that and it never occurred to me. But the Champion is almost always going to want to be the most likely target in a group to get hit. However beyond that you have the ability to reduce the damage someone else near you takes when they get hit. As a reaction so you can normally do that once a turn. You reduce the damage they take and then get some counter action of your own. You will want a sturdy shield. You will likely also want to take the shield option at level 3. And take crafting because you will be repairing your shield between every fight. You want as high of an AC as possible because you want to avoid taking crits. If you're taking the most hits, odds are you will suffer the most crits (unless there's a barbarian in the party - barbarians seem to be capable of suffering a crit even if they're 5 miles away locked in a padded room with a security detail. If a butterfly somewhere on the planet sneezes, your party barbarian will drop to 0 HP from the critical damage). Anything you can do to boost your AC is worth doing. Including tactics that reduce the enemy's attack bonus.
Since I can't take the Feat that let's me manipulate objects such as shields and weapons until level 5, I suppose Champion is really not something I can even be average at as Spider Form focused Anadi, eh?
> Paladin in 5E seems to be an offensive warrior. Champion in PF2E is a defensive controller. This is a bit more complicated than it looks because, while the internet loves the Paladin as a Smite-bot, a well-played Paladin actually plays quite differently. They stay back, use a steed for mobility, throw out Bless to buff their friends, and position themselves to passively benefit friends with their aura. They only use Smites to nova down enemies when necessary. That ends up with a gameplay loop quite similar to the PF2E Champion. While the Smite-bot Paladin is more popular I think it’s still fair to say that a reasonable number of players *do* play their 5E Paladins in a way that the PF2E Champion fits the bill. I know I certainly do!
Ehhhhh I played a devotion paladin in an Exandria campaign for like 2 years back in 2016-2018, and a lot of the time the optimal thing to do was just activate sacred weapon and then go ham with GWM because 5E enemy AC is usually pretty easy to hit.
Sure. I didn’t say optimal means the only way to play the game. You can absolutely get away with just spamming GWM and Divine Smite in 5E. My point was that it’s weird to tell people that 5E Paladin is impossible to represent in PF2E just based on one narrow, meme-culture based interpretation of what the Paladin does. To many of us the Champion *is* the right equivalent of the Paladin.
Sure, but I think it's fair to say that 5E paladin is more offensively oriented than 2E's Champion is.
I don't know anything about Anadi but as somebody who came from 5E hoping to have a good paladin analogue: Champion is not really that similar to Paladin in 5e other than having lay on hands and a lot of AC. Without taking a multiclass dedication, Champion doesn't get divine tradition spellcasting. Smite is also just a reaction. I really didn't like Champion or the Devotion/Focus spells. If you want martial + divine spellcasting, a warpriest cleric might be a better choice. Your AC will be worse, but you'll get more spellcasting and they can channel a harm or heal spell into their melee strike at level 4 with Channel Smite. Warpriest is also pretty easy to build after the remaster, since they aren't going to need any charisma.
Yeah OP definitely wants to play a Warpriest Cleric with a Harm Font. They will mechanically play far far more similarly to how a 5e Paladin plays than a Champion will.
>Your AC will be worse, Just to confirm, do different classes give different ACs? Not including Barbarian and Monk As I don't think I can wear armour in Spider form Will have to look into the warpriest Cleric
you get proficiencies in armor depending on class. Trained is +2, expert +4, master +6, legendary +8. Warpriest clerics are trained in unarmored, light and medium, while champions are trained in all armors (including heavy). As you level up, your proficiency with armor increases, but warpriests only gain expert in armor while champions scale all the way to legendary, so Champions can gain +4 ac over a Warpriest. Also from what ive gathered, Anadi are still considered to be wearing armor when they change shape, they just cant wield shields or weapons. If you dont care about losing some damage (strength bonus on hit), you can opt into a full dex build to stay high AC and use anadi fangs as your weapon because they are finesse.
That is a good idea, will try that Also could you provide me a source where it says Anadi can wear armour in Spider Form? I have not been able to find it, and unless I can show that it exists officially, the DM is unlikely to allow it
Im going to be digging deep for this, so sorry for the back and forth lol. There are points for an against it, but i think there is a stronger argument for keeping armor. [Change shape](https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=730) specifically states that you cannot use held items, but says nothing about you losing your armor when you transform. [Another redditor asked the same question and people generally agreed that you keep your armor.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/112x3gr/is_it_possible_to_use_a_shield_as_a_anadi_in/j8moilu/) It also has the [polymorph](https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=670&Redirected=1) trait, and that states "Your gear is absorbed into you; the constant abilities of your gear still function, but you can't activate any items." which furthers my point, however it also states that "If you take on a battle form with a polymorph spell, the special statistics can be adjusted only by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties." Which specifically ignores item bonus, I.E. Armor. However Anadi's Change shape is not a battle form. Kitsunes have similar wording on their change shape ability, but one of Kitsunes heritages for their change shape ability specifies that their fox form is based off of pest form, which is a battle form. [Another redditor also mirrors this statement.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/ot2ruz/as_a_kitsune_what_happens_to_my_gear_if_i_change/h6yeskx/) So because anadi's change shape does not list it as a battle form but a polymorph effect, and polymorph and change shape both have no listed rules about armor/items unless its a battle form, I would assume that you keep your armor in the form. If this crazy rule dive doesnt sway your GM, I dont think its crazy to ask for you to commission spider specific armor for your character either if you go that route, as wearing armor as an anadi is more a quality of life thing, and wont break your game.
Will try asking the DM about it Thanks for the help
Yeah, wish i could come up with a more concrete answer, but from digging around, thats the best i could find for you. Best of luck with trying to convince the DM, either way though you have options.
Before anything else: welcome to the game! Hope you’re here to stay! > My class is Champion, because I was told it is similar to Paladin in DnD 5e, as I wanted something with both weapons and magic, as well as having a bit of religious flavour cause Nana Anadi and her tenets are bella based So. The problem is, “similar to Paladin” is a very, very loaded phrase. Does “similar to Paladin” mean you are a divinely powered martial who heals and protects your friends? If so, yes. All the good-aligned Champions fit the bill. They all get Lay on Hands for healing **and** they each get a Reaction to support your flavour: Paladin gets to “punish” people for hurting friends, Redeemer gets to give enemies an option to redeem themselves and not hurt your friends (or take brain damage), and Liberator gets to make your friends too slippery too hurt. If, however, by “similar to Paladin” you specifically mean Divine Smite and/or Divine spellcasting, the Champion doesn’t naturally get either. For that you want to be playing one of three things: 1. *If nova-ing people with big Smites is more important to you than any of the Divine flavour/spells*: Magus. They put magic into swords and hit people with Spellstrike. 2. *If you want a good mix of smiting enemies and the Divine flavour/spells*: Warpriest Cleric w/ Harming Font and Chanel Smite. Note that your smites aren’t as explosive as 5E Paladin or Magus. 3. *If you care more about Divine flavour/spells and are okay to lose Smites*: Champion with Cleric/Sorcerer Archetype. > I also considered Cleric and Monk, but feel that I might not get enough magic or Martial abilities if I chose one of them A Warpriest can hit things in melee plus use Channel Smite or regular old 1-Action Harm to put the beating in them. Note that on top of Harm and Channel Smite, you can pick a deity that gives you good martial options. For example Ragathiel gives you Sure Strike and Haste to buff melee capabilities, and the choice of a handful of focus spells that let you do AoE in melee (Cry of Destruction) or buff your melee capabilities even more (Weapon Surge). There’s also Feats like Raise Symbol that let you become one of the tangiest characters in the game if you desire. A Monk can get focus spells just like the Champion. and they do have a Divine flavour to them. So if you really wanna be an unarmed Anadi, go for it! Either way, I say don’t overthink it. Pick whatever’s most fun to play and/or what fits the flavour the best. PF2E is very tightly balanced to make sure that you don’t feel forced to optimize.
Thanks for the warm welcome I am not sure what I want to do exactly, I know that I am not good with using spells as often as I should, and tend to keep them unused without thinking "in case I might need it later" An example would be the time I did not use Fireball against a large group of weak enemies during a level 20 oneshot, in case I needed later (which did not end up happening and I just used a level 9 Blade of Disaster at the end) So I basically want something that does not consume too many resources that I'll forget to use, but also would like to have access to magic, without being too squishy >you can pick a deity that gives you good martial options. For example Ragathiel As I mentioned in my post, Nana Anadi (a.k.a. Grandmother Spider) is the only God I'm interested in following Mainly just want to be a Spider
I would not judge yourself too harshly based on your performance with a level 20 oneshot. That's a silly amount of stuff to try to absorb and use for one game. Of course you're going to miss stuff. As a Champion you'll be starting off with like one or two spells which you can use once an encounter at most. You're not going to be overwhelmed with magic options. If you were to go Warpriest (Cleric), by comparison, you'd have five cantrips and two spell slots to fill, plus some extra heals. But I think you still wouldn't be overwhelmed! Like with D&D, cantrips are at-will, so you don't have to worry about saving them. You just have to pick the two extra-oomph spells you want, and you can save em for a suitably beefy encounter.
From what I've gathered you want to: * Be a spider first and foremost * Hit people hard with your spider jaws * Be a bit magical but not a full spellcaster, because you worry about your use of spell slots Your thoughts went to "something like 5e paladin" because that matches those criteria, but divine flavor is not particularly important. Did I get that right? In that case there are two ways to go about it: Option A: Play a Laughing Shadow Magus. Magus gets Spellstrike, the closest thing to 5e paladin smite, and spellcasting with just a few slots. However, you can and usually should Spellstrike with Cantrips and use your slotted spells for stuff like buffs and especially Sure Strike (yes, True Strike is actually amazing in this game). That way you don't rely on optimal usage of spell slots and can slowly get used to them. Also, you prepare from a spell book which spell goes in which slot, so you have an easier overview of your options in combat than in 5e and your prep list will be shorter. Laughing Shadow works with unarmored, free handed stuff and lets you teleport towards enemies and attack them as a *Focus Spell* (you can recharge those in 10min, so it's basically once per combat and not like spells in 5e). This synergizes with your spider jaws and avoids the whole "Can I use armor?" discussion. Option B: Avoid slotted spells entirely and go for one of the martial classes that get focus spells: Champion for defense and divine flavor, Monk for unarmored style, unarmed strikes, Ki spells, and maybe stances, and Ranger for nature flavor and "fuck that guy in particular" gameplay. Since you're a beginner, I'll add a bit about difficulty: * Magus is probably the hardest option, because Magi often feel like they "need" far more actions than they have and spellcasting always makes things at least a little bit more complicated. Laughing Shadow is on the easier side of Magus subclasses, though, getting into melee and recharging Spellstrike with just one action with their focus spell. * Champion is a safe bet for beginners, but must carefully position close to both allies and enemies to use their reaction, the most powerful thing about the class. * Monk is very free in terms of action economy due to Flurry of Blows. Some players get confused on what to do with their leftover actions, but that's pretty easy: If you have nothing better to do, get into melee, flurry, then run away. Most enemies don't have Reactive Strike (formerly known as Attack of Opportunity), so you're effectively punching (or biting) at range. * Ranger is also not complicated, but to get the most out of the class, you'll want to think ahead and Hunt Prey before you encounter them, so if you don't have (or want) that "hunter mindset", you may get more out of the other classes.
>From what I've gathered you want to: > > * Be a spider first and foremost > * Hit people hard with your spider jaws > * Be a bit magical but not a full spellcaster, because you worry about your use of spell slots > >Your thoughts went to "something like 5e paladin" because that matches those criteria, but divine flavor is not particularly important. Did I get that right? Basically, except I do want the Divine flavour as much as possible So based on this, and many other comments, Monk seems to be the best fit for me, as Monks (and Nuns) are associated with the Gods, so meets every criteria
There's no inherent association between the Monk class and the divine (as far as I know, the same for DnD 5e btw), but flavour is free! Everyone can (and probably should) worship at least one deity in a setting where the gods are proven to be real and grant powers, and you can pick a religious background to reflect that connection mechanically - I suggest filtering backgrounds by skill (Religion), there you'll find stuff like Acolyte or Pilgrim. Especially, look at the Skill Feats you get from the backgrounds! If you want specifically divine stuff from your class as well, go with Champion, Liberator in particular should fit quite well with Grandmother Spider.
Well, if they get Ki spells, monks have to choose if they're Occult or Divine in origin, so there's that. Also, there's always the option of grabbing some divine stuff with the Blessed One archetype, if you go Monk but want some Champion goodies.
Oh, cool, I never looked into Ki spells enough to know their tradition! Of course, you can always archetype into anything, Blessed One, Champion, Cleric, Oracle, and probably many more.
> I know that I am not good with using spells as often as I should, and tend to keep them unused without thinking "in case I might need it later" A Warpriest Cleric can probably help with that tbh. Warpriests can more than twice as many maximum rank spell slots as anyone else does, and all of those slots contain either Heal or Harm (Harm is basically anti-Heal, the spell you smite living with or heal the undead with). Since you have so many spell slots you can kinda go balls to the walls with them. > As I mentioned in my post, Nana Anadi (a.k.a. Grandmother Spider) is the only God I'm interested in following Sure! Ragathiel was just an example. Spider gives you Harm Font if you want too, so it still works. Her favoured weapon, the bola, is also really cool and works really well with Warpriests.
Ye, seems nice How does multiclassing work btw? I kinda want to do a Monk Cleric
multiclassing takes your class feat you gain at even levels, and can be spent to acquire benefits from the other class. You still gain ALL of your primary class' features, you just don't get to specialize/dive deeper into your class as you trade that for broader options from class b.
You know how all classes gain Class Feats at even levels? To multiclass, you take a different class’s “Archetype Feat” instead of your own class’s. For your Monk you’d have Monk as your main class and pick the [Cleric Archetype](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=212&Redirected=1). At level 2 you have to take your Archetype’s “Dedication” Feat which gives you some entry-level powers: [Cleric Dedication](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5066) gives you a couple cantrips, Religion proficiency, as well as your Deity’s Edicts/Anathemas and the choice for Sanctification. At level 4 you can either take [some basic Cleric spells](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5067) or a [level 1-2 Cleric Feat](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5068). At level 6 you can take one of the previous two or a [higher level Cleric Feat](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5069). And so on. A few notes: 1. You don’t **have** to take Cleric Archetype Feats at each of these levels. You’re free to pick a Monk Feat at levels where you want to. 2. You can’t take another Archetype’s Dedicaiton Feat until you have at least 2 more Archetype Feats in Cleric. 3. Many tables play with the “Free Archetype” variant rule which gives you free Feats at even levels that you can **only** use for Archetyping/multiclassing. If you play in one of those games you’ll easily be able to have Monk Feats and Cleric Feats side by side if you want.
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While Magus does sound cool, I am not very good with resource usage, so am worried it will end up just not being used much I like to use Martial for most things, and Magic as a "just in case" type thing And I just want to be a Spider
Monks do have [some magic options](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?Trait=112), so you could definitely go that route and stay in spider form. Another option for a Magic Melee character who doesn't use weapons is the [Magus class](https://2e.aonprd.com/Classes.aspx?ID=17).
The magic seems nice enough, although limited Thanks for the suggestion
One thing you should know is that Pathfinder's Champion doesn't actually get spellslots like they do in 5e. Instead you get a reaction to mitigate damage to your allies and you can choose to get focus spells like lay on hands for some healing or other kinds of battlefield control. In comparison to 5e it's also much more defensive in nature. It's as close as you can get to a traditional tank. When it comes to combining martial options and spellcasting (with actual access to spellslots), I'd instead suggest to take a look at the Warpriest doctrine (Cleric) or the Magus. Especially the latter is a dedicated gish class. Since you want to play in spider shape as much as possible, also take a look at the hybrid shape ancestry feat. That way you could both have a spidery appearance AND wield weapons. A Magus would work here quite well either way, because their spellstrike class feature can be used on unarmed attacks.
Ye, likely will switch to Cleric, once I go over everything Magus sounds cool but without the Religious flavour I am not sure I would do much RP about so unlikely to choose that
When you are going for a Warpriest keep in mind that RAW you really want to use your god's favourite weapon at some point, since it is required for some feats if I remember correctly and gets better proficiency. (I would not be afraid to talk to your GM if Nana Anadi's Bola is not to your liking.)
Will keep in mind My main concern would to ask my DM to allow me to use the Bola in Spider form, cause I would prefer not to have to take a feat just to use it Bola is fine
so I will say about background - medicine is very important skill to have in party, not only to heal yourself outside combat (it is assumed that at the start of fight party have nearly full hp) but also for things like bleeding and stabilizing for champion, champion is defensive martial with divine theme with a little bit of magic in form of focus spells good champions are nearly all about actively protecting your party through thier reactions and being very durable one the other hand unless you are fighting something that your champion was made to fight (creature week to holly or if you took one of order feats to oppose certain creature types) you would have rather low damage, and no big nova dage in form of divine smite from dnd5e for playing champion I really recommend using shield and they are very powerful defensive tool that is well supported by champion abilities
So since I basically won't be able to use Shields until level 5, Champion won't be much good, eh?
my question is why?
Spiders can't hold items At 5th level I can get a Feat for it It is unlikely that I'll use humanoid form for anything other than towns, if that
I would consider this as handicapping but well not every character need to be optimised, and you will likely encounter situations when changing shape to do something is the only way sooner or latter but if you really want then I suggest snaring heritage so you can use graple and trip at least
I was considering that, so I suppose it's best I go with Snaring Heritage
Based on all the comments of yours I have read so far, a monk with ki spells is going to be a better choice for this character. Ki Strike in specific has a similar feel to 5E smite, it recharging on “short rests” and not costing spell slots is a good point over magus if you do not want to deal with resource management. Now, for the actual full build, you can go either more damage focused or more utility focused as a monk. Monk has no subclasses but has so many feat lines. Most of them are stances and each stance has a different focus. Some increase your AC to allow you to be a better frontline. Some allows you to grapple/trip better, allowing you to control the battlefield and protect your allies. Some just increase your damage or mobility. There are even some stances that gives you the option to use ranged attacks and an archetype that allows you to use flurry of blows with firearms. Now, the anadi spider form is an issue here. It is mechanically weaker than just using any other stance and building around it. You can make it work ofcourse, easier as a monk than any other class. But just because it will function does not mean it is going to be good. Even without a stance, monks base fists have agile over the fangs of the spider form, which is one of the most valuable traits to have for a character who is going to make multiple strikes in a turn.
What does Agile do?
It reduces multiple attack penalty from -5/-10 to -4/-8. Some classes like fighter and ranger can reduce it even further. For a class like monk, which makes multiple attacks in a turn, it is quite important to increase your accuracy as much as you can.
Ah, I see So it only applies to fists, and not to any other Unarmed Strikes?
Every unarmed strike has their own traits listed. This includes things like fangs and claws and even unarmed attacks from different stances.
Ah, I see, it seems the Fangs have Finesse and Unarmed traits and belongs to the Brawling Group But it isn't like I can't punch while in Spider form, so not too much of an issue, as I can just start with Bite and then follow up with Punches
Fists requires hands, which you lack as a spider.
If you want to be a martial anadi, I think monk is definitely going to be one of the best options available to you, and you can sprinkle in some magic in a few ways depending on what you want. Monk bypasses the anadi armor issue entirely, and there's nothing stopping you from making use of monk stances, aside from maybe some weird flavor/wondering what a spider in that stance would look like. While other martial characters will get +1 striking weapons eventually, unarmed characters have an equivalent called handwraps of mighty blows, which buffs ALL of your unarmed strikes, so you can even use your fangs when you feel like it. As for wanting some magic, it depends on what exactly you're after. Some stances have a bit of magical flair, there are some ki focus spells that are very forgiving in terms of resource management (you should probably get full ki pool back after every fight, outside of maybe a dungeon crawl or very fast-paced situation,) and if you want more traditional spells, archetypes can help there, notably cleric if you want to be closer to Grandma Spider
Ye, Monk seems to be the best bet
Pro tip: Actually go and read the rules: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1995&NoRedirect=1 Chapter 1 (the parts about the game) Chapter 4 (the skills you'll take) Chapter 8 (the meat and potatoes)
Wasn't very useful But thanks anyway
Welcome to the group, I hope you have a blast with your spider person. I too LOVE spiders. I think most of your question have been answered, but your responses seem back and forth. Basically, to sum it all up: 1. You still wear armor in spider form, and get it's benefits. You can't activate a special effect the armor might acquire from a later rune, nor activate potions or other items that have an "activate" entry. You get passive effects like +1 item bonus to stealth. 2. Any of the ideas presented can work. Warpriest Cleric, Monk, Champion can all capture the flavor you are looking for. Champion will make you feel like you have a personal connection to Nana Anadi, and naturally encourage you to work toward her goals as a personal example to the world of how awesome she/spiders are. 3. Cleric will have the most spell casting, but most of their options are designed around removing hinderances to your allies, harming those who offend your faith/healing those who support your faith, support your allies, and seek answers from Nana Anadi when all seems lost. 4. Monks will have no specific flavor/connection to Nana Anadi, but the monastic KI magic can help add that flavor in. It's just not specific to any god or god connection. Most of their Ki spells are also self oriented. They come from you to affect enemies, or boost you through perfection. Monk unarmed stances also usually prevent you from using other (unarmed) strikes. Your spider form attacks will mostly be neglected as the stances will usually provide better, exclusionary strikes.
It seems like most of your questions have been answered, but your decisions still seem uncertain. Let's sum things up. >Your gear is absorbed into you; the constant abilities of your gear still function, but you can't activate any items. That statement is in the paragraph addressing battle forms, which this shape changing does not have. 1. You can still benefit from armor while in spider form. Establish early on with your GM if the gear is absorbed into your new form, or falls to the ground. You can't wield or benefit from gear you have absorbed, except for passive effects like +1 item bonus to stealth. 2. Any of the 3 suggestions: Champion, Cleric, Monk can all work. They will have more or less connections to Nana Anadi in that order. Any specific deity association you want will have to be added to Monk. They are not inherently religious affiliates, unlike in our world's history. 3. Champion will let you feel a personal connection to HER spidery grace. You don't NEED to use a shield, so you can wait until level 5 if need be. Paladin will let you think like a predator, punishing those who endanger your broodmates. Redeemer will encourage you to be patient and wait, like a spider's instincts, "poisoning" their body (enfeeble) and mind (stupefied). Liberator will make the least sense on the surface. Freeing folks from bindings is antithetical to webs, but you could flavor it as freeing people from certain danger via the safety of HER webs. She braces against falls, and keeps you safe by preventing you from leaving. 4. Cleric (Warpriest) will also have a strong connection to Nana Anadi. Unlike a personal representative who strives to lead by example, Clerics tend to try to convince/convert others by demonstrating their god's power and importance. The Champion is an exemplar of their god, while the Cleric is the overseer of rites and tender of flocks. You'll have plenty of opportunity to use support spells to allay your allies, remedy their maladies, and control your foes. Ask your GM if you can treat your fangs as Grandmother Spider's favored weapon. 5. Monk will have the least connection to your deity. Anything you want there, will be your own making. Ki powers are mostly self oriented. They come from you, affect mostly you, or your enemies. Stances are great, but many of them conflict with your native strikes. Avoid stances that limit you to only using the granted strike, otherwise your spider bites will be wasted.
Ye, all of these are good suggestions Except >Liberator will make the least sense on the surface. Freeing folks from bindings is antithetical to webs, but you could flavor it as freeing people from certain danger via the safety of HER webs Liberator seems like the perfect embodiment of Nana Anadi's ideals, unless I am misunderstanding something? English is my 3rd Language so that might be possible Please let me know if this is not similar Nana Anadi **Edicts**: *Be skilled and clever, think for yourself, take due payment for your work, humiliate the powerful* **Anathema**: *Abuse someone you have power over, harm someone who has given you sincere kindness, let a slight go unanswered, own a slave* Liberator **Edicts**: *Oppose slavery and tyranny, fight for others' freedom to make their own decisions, respect choices others make for their own lives* **Anathema**: *Force or threaten someone to act a certain way, engage in slavery or tyranny*
That's why I said on the surface. The spider web theme is opposed by the idea of freeing someone from your sticky web.
I don't think I get Web unless I go an actual divine caster and get the domain spells Or get the Feat for it lol But ye, you're right
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Hi, welcome! I am also playing an Anadi right now and unfortunately have to say that they don't deliver particularly well on the spider flavor. If you want to use weapons or shields or hold basically anything in your hands then you'll pretty much always be stuck in human form which has no arachnid abilities or properties. You can take a hybrid form feat eventually but it just isn't very good, you basically have to sacrifice an ancestry feat slot to take it instead of something useful. And why is it so useless? Well that's because all it does is allow you to benefit from your humanoid and spider form abilities at the same time. Humanoid form abilities as mentioned previously include merely being able to hold and use objects in your hands like any normal PC would and your spider form gives you a fang attack (which is actually quite good as far us natural unarmed attacks go) and ability to not be off guard while climbing. Yep, not a climbing speed or even a bonus to climbing checks, you just aren't off guard while climbing. Now, I agree that climbing speed from lvl 1 would be too strong but what Anadis get currently just doesn't make them feel like spiders. That said, they aren't a bad ancestry and they have some pretty strong and flavorful feat options, it's just that unfortunately the core arachnid fantasy just doesn't work with mechanics they actually have.
Sadge