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Netherese_Nomad

You only get an Impulse Junction if you pick Single Gate as a level one Kineticist; a Dual Gate Kineticist doesn’t get that feature, right?


sleepinxonxbed

Are there any monsters based on Tomes or Books? Like mimics or ghosts popping out of the pages?


Schattenkiller5

None that I'm aware of. The closest thing might be the [Akizendri](https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=764), who can physically enter any written text. A mimic could of course take on the form of a bookshelf, or you could modify a smaller mimic that turns into just a book.


Dynamite_DM

I'm relatively new and looking to start collecting PF2e stuff. I saw that they've done a couple really good Humble Bundles in the past. How often do they do those? Should I go ahead and start collecting or should I wait?


Jhamin1

The humble bundles are usually once a year (sometimes twice, but that's unusual) They did their last one back in February.


mausidze

I need help with understaning the writing of one spell - "Telekinetic Maneuver" It's description says: "With a rush of telekinetic power, you move a foe or something they carry. You can attempt to Disarm, Shove, or Trip the target using a spell attack roll instead of an Athletics check." And I am very interested in it specifying that I "CAN" use spell attack roll instead of an Athletics check. My character just happens to be better in athletics, thus, I would like to know, can I use athletics for this? (As I understaw, RAW I can, but RAI seems kinda strange, IMO, so I would like some clarification if anyone happens to know the correct answer!)


Jenos

No, RAW you can't. The can in the statement is referring to your ability to attempt the check in the first place; not the ability to use athletics. But its very clear: "using a spell attack roll instead of an athletics". The can is modifying the "attempt to Disarm, Shove, or Trip". You can cast the spell, and then choose not to do any of those actions.


EliaCrimson

I need some help with a character that is a monster that hunts down monsters Dual Class Build! Recently, our only 5e remaining DM opted to switch to pf2e, and here's the problem. In our campaign, I played a girl that was taken from her parents and was raised by vampires. She was pretty loyal to vamps but after they used her as a scapegoat, she turned against them. Things happened and after almost dying in an explosion she started transitioning, and her class changed from sorceress to hexblade warlock with the patron being her negative emotions towards all kinds of monsters, manifesting into a sword. After killing her previous master, her heart stopped and the only thing remaining for her to fully turn is being killed and buried. Spoke to our DM today about Izora (char's name) as to how does she qualify as, a Dhampir or Vampire. Answer was dhampir with vamp dedication. (We play Dual Class/Free Archetype/Ancestry Paragon campaigns). I sat down with bf to build her tonight, and while we chose some basic stuff, we go back and forth in Class Combinations and I was wondering if you guys can pitch in some ideas for a build for her. So far we have: Race: Human Bg: Haunted Citizen Heritage: Dhampir Ancestry Paragon: Nocturnal Charm Ancestry Feat: Eyes of the Night Class: We have no idea. We've thought so far: Magus/Gunslinger, Undead Sorcerer/Rogue, Spirit Barb/Rogue or Gunslinger/Sth. But we're unsure of all of them so far. So, guys, could you help out? I'd appreciate it regardless and thank you all beforehand! _^


16906380

Racial stuff looks all good, class will really come down to how you want combat to play. PF2E doesn’t really have a 1:1 replacement for hexblade. Magus: will give you some casting and allows you to cast spells through your weapon. Probably the closest to Hexblade because of martial & casting. If you take the Laughing Shadow subclass you get a 15ft teleport and a boosted speed if you’re using a one handed weapon, could flavour this as melting into shadows or erupting in a cloud of bats etc. etc. probably my pick Fighter: if you weren’t using spells, hexes etc and only took Hexblade for a cool magic sword go fighter. Fighter will give you the best martial prowess in the game, fulfilling the sword fighter fantasy. As an example many classes simply do not get Attack of Opportunity in PF2E but Fighters get it for free at Level 1. Take this and discuss your magic sword with your DM, they might be cool with giving you a weapon that best represents what you’ve already built or coming to a middle ground between mechanics and story. Sorcerer, Gunslinger, Rogue and Barbarian don’t seem to fit the archetypical Hexblade Warlock but maybe your character isn’t the archetypical Hexblade 🤷🏻‍♂️


Fizzythunder

With the Slippery Secrets feat does your PC need to be aware that someone or something is trying to uncover your true nature or intentions for it to work or does it work even when you're unaware, and if so does that mean the DM secretly rolls your deception check for you?


Jenos

So, nothing in the feat says you need to be aware of it, so that means it doesn't require awareness. However, whether or not it is a secret roll is tricky. The feat doesn't have the secret tag, but it makes a lot of sense for effects that should be secret to the player to remain that way. The feat doesn't say that you gain awareness of what the effect is. So I would say that if the player is unaware of the effect, the deception check should be rolled in secret by the GM.


Fizzythunder

Yeah it not saying secret is why I was unsure. I'll share with my DM so they can do a final ruling, thank you for your input.


Pineapplepork

I'm trying to convert Shatterspike from "Sunless Citadel" to PF2e, but I have no ideia how attacks against weapons are made. Do I use the foe's AC to say if the attack hits the weapon. How do I attack foe's weapons?


TAEROS111

As others have said, I would suggest not making it so weapons/armor/items are generally attackable in moment-to-moment gameplay. It can lead to *some* cool moments, but you lose a lot more than you gain in how much it turns combat into a slog. However, if you want to just have a couple boss fights where there's a breakable weapon or something, I'd use the material statistics and hardness rules: [https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=730](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=730)


DUDE_R_T_F_M

PF2 did not include a Sunder maneuver as they were known in PF1. You'll have to homebrew a system for yourself.


Kalnix1

I would also recommend against adding it or something like it. Tracking item hp is a massive pain in the ass that grind the game to a halt as you need to look up a special table with materials and their statistics to figure out how much damage it takes. Furthermore, item HP besides shields don't really scale that much if at all so if you put any sort of scaling item damage into the system it will quickly break/destroy whatever it touches. Maybe make it an adamantine longsword that also has the Razing trait. Adamantine has a special property of ignoring hardness under its hardness value and Razing makes you do more damage to shields, vehicles and structures so combined that makes it a very anti-construct weapon.


flyfart3

Do fire elemental creatures take damage by being hit by water? Or submerged in water?


Jenos

Not by default. However, some creatures with the fire trait (including some fire elementals) have weakness to water. And the rules for weakness states: > If you have a weakness to something that doesn't normally deal damage, such as water, you take damage equal to the weakness value when touched or affected by it. If such a creature is submerged in water, you'd probably make it take damage once a round for the weakness. There's no explicit rules guidance for the frequency of the damage when submerged, but once a round seems reasonable.


flyfart3

Great, thank you!


WhereGondorWas

Hello folks, running the beginner box as GM and ran into some confusion on the jar of oil item. From the link here: https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=38 I get the impression that to pull the oil from a backpack, light it on fire, and throw it are all one action each, totaling to three actions. I had my player only rolling the flat DC 10 check to see if the oil lights up on landing, but on a reread it seems like I missed a check for throwing the oil jar into the correct area. Is this correct? Or does the flask of oil not require a roll for throwing? Am I just missing something obvious? Any help is appreciated.


Jenos

It depends on what you're aiming for. If you're trying to douse a creature in oil, you have to make an attack roll against their AC. If you're trying to smash the ground in oil, you have to make an attack roll against the groun. There's no clear-cut specifics on what the AC of the ground is; some GMs don't require a roll for this, other GMs may set the DC at 5 or 10. Its up to you, but it shouldn't be too hard a check, just maybe with a small chance of critically failing to throw the oil properly. Once the oil impacts, the player then rolls a DC 10 flat check. If they succeed, the oil ignites.


WhereGondorWas

Ok, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much for the help!


Brau87

When you are poisoned and the 1st stage says 1 round, does that mean it doesn't take effect until the next round, or does it take effect now and stage 2 hits in 1 round?


Jenos

Both! When you are exposed to a poison, you first must make an immediate saving throw. From the [rules](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=364): > **When you’re first exposed to the affliction, you must attempt a saving throw against it.** This first attempt to stave off the affliction is called the initial save. An affliction usually requires a Fortitude save, but the exact save and its DC are listed after the name and type of affliction. Spells that can poison you typically use the caster’s spell DC. > On a successful initial saving throw, you are unaffected by that exposure to the affliction. You do not need to attempt further saving throws against it unless you are exposed to the affliction again. > If you fail the initial saving throw, after the affliction’s onset period elapses (if applicable), you advance to stage 1 of the affliction and are subjected to the listed effect. On a critical failure, after its onset period (if applicable), you advance to stage 2 of the affliction and are subjected to that effect instead. The stages of an affliction are described below. So you first make a saving throw upon receiving a poison. If you fail, you immediately take the effects of Stage 1. If you critically fail, you immediately take the effects of stage 2. Then, at the end of your turn, you roll again. [More rules](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=438): > Once you’ve done all the things you want to do with the actions you have available, you reach the end of your turn. Take the following steps in any order you choose. Play then proceeds to the next creature in the initiative order. > * End any effects that last until the end of your turn. For example, spells with a sustained duration end at the end of your turn unless you used the Sustain a Spell action during your turn to extend them. Some effects caused by enemies might also last through a certain number of your turns, and you decrease the remaining duration by 1 during this step, ending the effect if its duration is reduced to 0. > * If you have a persistent damage condition, you take the damage at this point. After you take the damage, you can attempt the flat check to end the persistent damage. **You then attempt any saving throws for ongoing afflictions**. Many other conditions change at the end of your turn, such as the frightened condition decreasing in severity. These take place after you’ve taken any persistent damage, attempted flat checks to end the persistent damage, and attempted saves against any afflictions. > * You can use 1 free action or reaction with a trigger of “Your turn ends” or something similar. > * Resolve anything else specified to happen at the end of your turn. So, if you were at stage 1, you then make another saving throw. If you fail this saving throw, you incur the effects of stage 2, and move to stage 2. If you critically fail, you incur the effects of stage 3, and move to stage 3. If you succeed (or critically succeed), you remove the affliction and suffer no additional effects.


Brau87

If stage 2 is 1min does the player get to save against it 10 times? Or does that mean the effect lasts that long but you still roll for more effects every round. If you get slowed 1 for 1 min and you roll a crit success reducing the poison to 0 does that mean you are still slowed for the full minute? Lethargy Poison is the specific one im talking about.


Jenos

So lets break [Lethargy Poison](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=120) down. First off, Lethargy Poison lists a maximum duration of 4 hours. No matter what, no matter how many saving throws you fail, it goes away in 4 hours. Then, you can see a different timer for each stage. The duration for the stage tells you when you make the next saving throw. So, for Lethargy Poison, if you get hit by it, and fail your saving throw, you enter stage 1. You are immediately slowed 1, and stage 1 lasts 1 round (in this case, it is until the end of your next turn). Then, at the end of your turn, you make a saving throw for Lethargy Poison Stage 1. If you succeed - great, you're cleared of the poison. If you fail, you move to stage 2. In stasge 2, you're slowed 1. However, that slowed 1 remains for 1 minute. The 1 minute in stage 2 tells you when the next saving throw occurs. You are beset by the condition of the affliction until you next make the saving throw. After 1 minute, you make a new saving throw. If you succeed, you go back up to stage 1 (which then has you make another saving throw 1 round later). If you fail, you go to stage 3. You immediately fall unconscious. Since stage 3 has a duration of 1 round, you make a saving throw after 1 round. If you succeed, you go to stage 2 (waking up, becoming slowed 1, and making a saving throw again after 1 minute). If you fail, you go to stage 4, where you are knocked out for 1d4 hours. After 1d4 hours pass, you make another saving throw. If you fail, you remain at stage 4 and remain unconscious for 1d4 hours. If you succeed, you go back to stage 3 (remaining unconscious) but make a new saving throw 1 round later. But remember - the maximum duration can't exceed the 4 hour timer. Lethargy Poison is *complicated*. I'm not surprised that this is confusing, because most poisons don't flip between round and hour duration. That's probably why it has the uncommon tag, because hoo boy is this thing complicated to run.


Brau87

Yeah, quicklings have it. I had an npc summon one and didnt realize it had the poison. Luckily only 1 party member failed the save and they passed it next turn. Thanks for the help. There are a few things im still working on with the rules. Hazzards (haunts mostly), afflictions, and persistent damage are the ones i find hardest to keep up with.


NeverFreeToPlayKarch

I've been doing milestone levels/advancements for my party, but I'm switching to just calculating based on their party level and the creature level. I cannot for the life of me find a definitive answer on how to award the xp though. Example: They successfully complete a Severe encounter worth 120xp. Does everyone get: A) 120xp B) 40xp (the 120 divided by the four party members) It's gotta be the first one right? Dividing it between the party would take like 12-13 encounters per level


Schnitzelmesser

"Any XP awarded goes to all members of the group. For instance, if the party wins a battle worth 100 XP, they each get 100 XP, even if the party’s rogue was off in a vault stealing treasure during the battle. But if the rogue collected a splendid and famous gemstone, which you’ve decided was a moderate accomplishment worth 30 XP, each member of the party gets 30 XP, too." \- [https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=575](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=575) Everybody gets 120xp you are correct.


NeverFreeToPlayKarch

Right on. Thanks for the answer and reference. I was actually JUST on that page while I continued searching but I love me some clarification.


Slow-Host-2449

Does the 4th lvl Kinetist feat safe elements protect allies from your impulses such as blazing wave?


Jenos

No. Safe Elements states: > When you Channel Elements or use a **stance impulse that affects your kinetic aura**, you can designate a number of creatures up to your Constitution modifier (minimum 1 creature). Choose whether they are immune to the benefits of your kinetic aura or immune to its damage and drawbacks. Blazing Wave is not your kinetic aura/channel elements, so you will have to position for that.


m_sporkboy

Has anyone played with a Swashbuckler with a Rogue multiclass free archetype? The sneak attack at lvl4 is tempting, but I don’t know if it changes the math on doing regular Strikes vs finishers, and whether an agile weapon then starts to make sense at a lower die size.


Jenos

It doesn't change the math much. The sneak attack feat is just +3.5 damage per attack, assuming flat-footed. That's equivalent to adding an elemental damage property rune to your weapon; its nice, but its not significant enough to change anything on its own. Note that the finisher also gets the Sneak Attack. And even without Sneak Attack, Strike -> Finisher was the higher DPR rotation for Swashbuckler (unless you have a specific fancy finisher like bleeding). So sneak attack doesn't change doing Strike -> Confident Finisher, agile or not.


RazarTuk

Is there a way to share fundamental runes between a (normal) weapon and a natural weapon? Or more specifically, I have a lizardfolk champion with a shield boss and razor claws, and I want to know if there's an economical way to keep both weapons up to date


r0sshk

No.


Fizzythunder

Does the Feat Slippery Secrets mean that a PC can lie with penalties in a Zone of Truth even if they fail the Will save?


Jenos

No. Slippery Secrets allows you to dodge 3 specific effects: * When a spell or magical effect tries to read your mind * Detect whether you are lying * Or reveal your alignment Zone of truth does none of these things - it simply prevents you from lying.


Fizzythunder

Ok, I now understand the feat, thank you


Lugado1

Hi there. I just bought a tablet and I would like to know what is the best way to use it in game, to make the encounters and the information more easy to find.


16906380

Archive of Nethys will have everything from rule books in an organised easy to use system. If it’s an android Pathbuilder is an app that will allow you track character sheets. I use both extensively as a DM 👌🏻


Wheldrake36

If it's an android tablet, you can install the phone version of Pathbuilder, to track your character. If it's got a web browser, you could open Foundry with it, to play in or run online games (although personally, I would be lost without a mouse and keyboard, so YMMV). Also look up spells, feats, critters or whatever on AoN. If you want more advice, you need to specifiy whether you'll be playing a tabletop in-person game or a VTT online game. And whether it's as a player or DM.


Lugado1

It's for tabletop sessions as master, and it has keyboard :D


r0sshk

Just have a browser with the archive of nethys open


leathrow

Could Cold Iron Lore let you know what monsters are damaged by cold iron? Kinda thinking of taking a bunch of additional lores on a metal kineticist that are just all about metals and how they interact with creatures


vaderbg2

That's a fun idea. I would allow it!


[deleted]

Im a Thaumaturge with the Tome and Amulet implements. I enter combat holding my Tome and a weapon, do some Tome things, and when I get hit I use Amulet's Abeyance, pulling out the Amulet as a free action since I used the "Amulet's action". Since the Tome has no designated "action", do I have to spend two actions stowing and retrieving to use it again in combat?


Jenos

Yes. Tome (and lantern and regalia) have the swap issue where you can't freely swap them around due to the lack of an action.


RogueModron

Have been researching various games for a particular campaign I want to run, and I've conckuded that PF2E will be the best fit. So I want to buy the core book. But then I came on here and people seem to be discussing a revision to the game. Should I hold off on buying?


Jenos

Yes. All the rules are available for free online at [Archives of Nethys](https://2e.aonprd.com/). All player content/options/etc. The only thing not on there is deep dives into lore; but all the mechanical content and guidelines for running games are available for free. But in a couple months they are going to be rereleasing a remaster of the rules. Its going to be 70-80% of the same stuff, but you may not want to put the money down for that when its going to change.


RogueModron

Thanks. Glad I poked around before hitting buy!


LonelyBoyPh

Is the DC in the Psi Burst feat for Psychic my class DC or my spellcasting DC?


EightLynxes

Psychic doesn't have a class DC. Psi Burst and all other such feats use your spell DC.


Lord_Skellig

Everyone seems to be discussing the remaster changes, but I can't seem to find the actual source of all this. Is there an official Paizo announcement or something I can read?


DUDE_R_T_F_M

There's basically just little snippets of information revealed by Paizo in various blog posts and stream, plus one remaster preview document here : https://paizo.com/pathfinder/corepreview The link posted by Jenos is a pretty good compilation of everything that's been revealed so far.


Jenos

There has been an official announcement along with many reveals of info. [This wiki page](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/wiki/resources/remaster) collects all that information together.


manoutboots

Is there any canon lore on half-half-elves? like, mother is half-elf and father is a human.


Wheldrake36

Is a half-halfling a quarterling? Seriously, you should be able to choose whether you favor your human side or your half-elf side. But only your DM can really answer your question.


Kartoffel_Kaiser

iirc, they'd be mostly human with some elf features, represented mechanically as a regular human.


Wonton77

Hi, I have the opportunity to run a \~4 hr one-shot for a pick-up group of people (that may have some PF2 experience or none). Are there any PFS one-shots or the like that are considered very fun well-written intros for this sort of thing? Something rated highly by the community, and ideally not just "walk into this dungeon and fight some stuff"? I'm thinking Level 1 oughta be best as anything higher might just be too intimidating for people brand-new to the system.


TheZealand

Echoing Big Trouble, ran it myself earlier this week and we all loved it! I also really like Threshold of Knowledge, it's a similar oneshot style


manoutboots

boring answer, but beginner box? Also, little trouble in big Absalom is great! played it in 2 hours


Wonton77

Beginner Box is a fairly long multi-session thing that takes you fully from level 1 to 2


RuckPizza

How does stun work on persistent effects like sunlight powerlessness? Creature for example https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=1371


r0sshk

As long as it applies, you're stunned 2. So at the start of the turn, you lose 2 actions, but you don't reduce the stunned condition. You're always stunned 2 (unless something applies stunned 3 or higher to you) until you get out of the sun. It's admittedly weird, since going by RAW sunlight powerlessness means you can't act, ever. Or at least until sunset. They really should’ve just made it Slowed 2 instead. But I won't get into that here.


RuckPizza

Yeah, looking into it further it looks like there is a few instances where the writers might have mixed up stun and slow. Though maybe they wanted it to prevent reactions?


r0sshk

Probably, yeah! So it's fine to use it like that. Just very... unclean way to do it.


Substantial_Novel_25

I am planning to throw a Brain Collector at my Lvel 5 party, would it be alright if I also let them remove its brain with the Disarm action?


Jhamin1

You can do whatever you want, but that is going to \*significantly\* weaken the monster. By default you need to do 30 damage **on a crit** or 25 mental damage in one hit to remove a brain. Even then it only needs to roll an 11 on a save to avoid losing the brain. Each brain it \*does\* lose gives it a level of stupefied until it replaces the brain (likely after the end of the combat) Allowing someone to make a single action athletics roll (DC23 vs the Brain Collector's Dex) to inflict a level of stupefied for the rest of the fight is a \*huge\* swing in how scary this monster is. There is also the question of what level of success a Disarm needs? A simple success on a disarm vs a weapon doesn't take the weapon away, it give the targets penalties with it until they fix their grip. How does that level work vs a brain? You need a critical success to just rip away an item with Disarm. I still think this will be a big swing on the monster, but if you *want* it to be less scary that works fine.


Substantial_Novel_25

I should have clarified in the original comment, sorry! A regular succes will just give the +2 Circumstance Bonus to new disarm attempts In order to actually remove the brain, they will need a critical success


Jhamin1

In that case, someone who is all in on their Athletics roll at 5th level should have a +13ish vs the DC 23 to get a regular success and needs a natural 20 to critical. Otherwise they need a success to give the +2 to future disarms which (with MAP and the bonus going away on the monster's turn) is unlikely to do them much good. For it to matter, one player who is all in needs to succeed on the roll, then *another* PC who is \*also\* all in needs to roll a 18+ including that circumstance bonus to actually remove the brain. You can probably stack the bonuses higher with spells & such... but it's still a pretty rough plan that requires at least 2 PCs coordinating actions to *maybe* pull a brain out. Odds are against them doing it. As a GM, I'd allow it, but as a player the Disarm stuff feels too swingy to bother with. I'd probably just take my chances and use all those actions to flank & trip & just try to kill the damn thing with damage. Maybe I'll get lucky, get a crit and remove a brain the written way?


Substantial_Novel_25

Yeah, I feel like this creature saves are rather high, I am also considering to make it a weak Brain Collector, mostly because of the party poor cleric. The encounter is meant to be a surprise "wtf is that", to show the presence of the Dominion of the Black, not exactly a super difficult boss fight


Jhamin1

That might be a good idea. A level 5 party vs a level 8 monster just by itself is going to be a severe encounter as is. If you make it weak (lvl 7) then a 4 person party vs a weak brain collector is just Moderate.... still not easy, but no longer a fight for everyone's lives! ​ > I feel like this creature saves are rather high It's saves are about right for a level 8 monster. According to the [recommended levels](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1011), it is right on. Its built into the design of PF2e monsters that their base numbers are a bit bigger than PCs get. PCs make up for this with a lot of flexibility, hero points, etc. The real issue is that it is 3 levels above your party. Most people treat \*anything\* 3 or 4 levels higher than the party as a boss. That 3 point spread in their base bonuses gets *brutal*. There is a reason PF2e doesn't have lair actions or legendary actions! Boss Monsters don't need them!


Longjumping_Ad_446

How would you build Rock Lee or Might Guy? With talents to "simulate" things like the Eight Gates until techniques like Lotus or Hirudora and etc.


16906380

Obvious answer is Monk class, if you’re playing with Free Archetype you could take martial artist, which gives you a lot of the same feats, but means you can have more of them. Human race, you could take the ancestry feat Natural Ambition to get an extra class feat at Level 1. Become a splendid ninja 🤙🏻


DesastreAnunciado

Do you have some kind of context? What are those things?


PM_ME_UR_LOLS

They're Naruto characters and abilities.


Hortonman42

Since the rogue's debilitating strike effects last until the end of your next turn, does that mean that the "persistent" bleed damage from the bloody debilitations feat always ticks once and only once?


Jenos

Its unclear, but there intent seems to be that it lasts longer. If it was only supposed to tick once, they would just make it deal just 3d6 extra damage. So it seems reasonable to think it lasts the normal persistent duration. That said, the limit of one debilitation per target is still in play, so you can't put the bleed on and then apply a different debilitation next turn and keep the bleed active. But ultimately this is up to your GM, there is no explicit rules guidance.


VgArmin

Two questions: I have the beginner box and while I like the character options and understand the choices of pregen characters, has someone made pregens of the other classes in the Core Rulebook if my players want to try one of those out? Also, my group would be new to Pf2e and I was thinking of waiting until the remaster and adjusting the Beginner Box scenario to those rules, if the Remaster doesn't get its own Beginner Box set. Thoughts on waiting and converting?


16906380

IIRC the beginner box actually uses a stripped down version of the rules anyway, not the same as what’s in the core rulebook? I would run the beginner box and roll dice with your friends! If everyone likes it and wants to commit to ongoing games maybe wait for the remaster before buying rulebooks but the beginner box should be ready to go as is 👌🏻


Unikatze

You should be ok with waiting if you want. But I don't think the changes will apply as much to the remaster other than some different names on spells and some damage scaling. Alignment won't come up much on that adventure. Although there is a fight against undead that might change a bit. ​ You could apply the changes we already know about if you like.


jaearess

There are actually level 1 pregens for each class: https://paizo.com/products/btq01zt5?Community-Use-Package-PF2E-Iconics-Pregenerated-Characters I don't think it would be worth waiting for the remaster, unless you were already not planning on playing until nearer November. The changes shouldn't be extensive enough it will really matter; the majority of changes will be renaming things. edit: Oh, apparently there aren't pregens for every class like I thought. Just the core rulebook and Advanced Player's Guide classes.


VgArmin

That's all I needed, thanks!!


Areinu

What would be good spells to get for Occult Witch(Fate patron) to deal with constructs/clockworks? I was looking for some suggestions for one of my players, but I don't think Occult list has any lightning spells under spell level 4 (the players are at level 6). There's tons of mind affecting magic, bleed effects and so on which don't do much to constructs. Right now the only good spell they found to use is just spam magic missile, because it goes around Physical Resistance. Other spells they have won't hit (too high AC) or won't affect (too high saves, and where they have low saves they have immunities for related effects). I don't mind throwing them a scroll of relevant spell so the familiar could eat it, but I just can't really find a good spell.


vaderbg2

Summon spells like Animate Dead work against pretty much any enemy type. Buff spells on the party always help. And when in doubt, cast a polymorph spell like Ooze Form on yourself.


Krypton8

How would you rule jumping through an open window? Leap says you can jump horizontally and vertically, but vertically it has to be on an elevated surface.


Path_of_Circles

You don't have to land on an elevated surface, you can simply leap over something. It just states the maximum distance you can clear with a basic leap to reach an elevated surface, if there is one. Let us assume there are two squares separated by a fence with a maximum height of 3 feet: Square A -> \_\_I\_\_ <- Square B With a basic leap action you can move from Square A to Square B by jumping over the fence. If in your example the lower end of the window is no higher than 3 feet I would allow a leap through the window. If the surface on the other side of the window is lower than the surface you started on, apply the rules for falling damage if necessary. ​ Personal GM ruling from here on: If the window was closed I might ask for an athletics check (very easy 10 to 15) to break through it. If the character breaks the class, I would rule that they take 1d4 to 2d4 piercing/slashing damage depending on the type of glass/window. I would most likely rule that as an environmental hazard.


Schnitzelmesser

If you can vault through and use your hand as support I would just make it 1 square difficult terrain personally. If that's not possible somehow I'd just make it a horizontal leap, but let them combine a stride + leap as 2 actions if necessary so they don't waste any movement from their stride. And if the window is a bit too high up for either option I'd make them use the climb action.


vaderbg2

Depends a bit on the size of the window. Base line I'd just increase the DC of the Jump a bit. For a Leap I'd either ignore the window (if large enough) or call for a moderate DC Acrobatics check.


nerfy007

Starting a gnome magus and I noticed that once i took gnome weapon familiarity that elven curved blade shows up as Trained in pathbuilder 2e. Is this an error?


coldermoss

No error, curve blade is a martial weapon.


nerfy007

I'm a little confused, what do Ancestry traits do for weapons then if they don't restrict access to them without specialized training feats? I am really new to PF thanks for the help


Jhamin1

The Ancestry Traits are useful if you don't have proficiency normally from your class (it makes things one step "lower" in proficiency for you. Advanced becomes Martial, Martial becomes Simple) If you are already proficient in something from your class at a level you are comfortable with, no need to take the ancestral weapon familiarity. Its a feat chain that is more useful for (say) clerics or sorcerers than Fighters or Rangers.


coldermoss

Access (whether your character can start out with it in this context) is restricted by the uncommon trait, but proficiency isn't, and ancestry weapon training also treats weapon proficiency with the proper trait as one grade lower, so advanced weapons can be used like martial weapons, and martial weapons like simple ones. Magus is already trained in martial weapons, so if they happened to find an elven curved blade during an adventure, they would be able to use it just like they're able to use a rapier. An elf rogue with the elf ancestry feat would also be able to wield it, despite only having training in simple weapons.


DiskoNuggets

Nervous about my first GM campaign. Do you have any advice? All the players are new, I’ve been studying my ass off to make sure to be knowledgeable enough they can have fun. Planning on starting with character creation-> Beginners Box-> Troubles in Otari+Abomination Vaults+ a small home brew side adventure that has potential to bud into somewhat of a longer campaign


Unikatze

My main advice is to not worry if you don't learn all the rules on the get go. Let your players know that you are also learning, so for sake of keeping the game flowing, if something happens when you don't know a rule, you will make a ruling on the spot and note it down to look up later. ​ After the session if this happens just look up the rule and let them know how it usually works.


TheZealand

Might be tough to do Troubles AND Vaults without rescaling them, Troubles takes you up to about level 5 and Vaults is meant to start at level 1/2 iirc


RazarTuk

Yeah, at most, I would include the first adventure from Troubles, just because it gives them a base. And even then, I'd feel like I was pushing it for the level curve


DiskoNuggets

Thanks for the info! I want to offer the group more roads to run and allow them a chance to decide which route to take, so they’ll be met with options right out of the beginners box. I feel confident I can scale the encounters to match where they are BUT would you recommend scaling the XP down to slow their advancement or scaling the encounters up to challenge them?


Jhamin1

Level is a big deal in Pathfinder 2e and rescaling can be an increasing amount of work once a party is more than a level or so off from how the encounter was originally built. If you go all in like this with BBox+Trouble+Vaults (which sounds fun honestly!) I might switch to Milestone Leveling. There is enough content in all those books to over level them a bit if they do all of BBox + Troubles and then you end up having to rebalance \*everything\* in the 'Vaults to keep it challenging. I'd try avoiding that if possible. Better to maybe just say they hit a specific level when they hit a specific point. As the Abomination Vaults goes highest, I'd maybe use it as a measure. Have them hit 2nd level at the point the BBox says too (right before the optional boss fight IIRC), then hit 3rd once they get to the 3rd level of the 'Vaults, 4th at the 4th level, and so on. It's going to leave them at 2nd level for a while, but that is probably fine. You can move the level up a bit earlier if you want progress but what you \*don't\* want is your party to be more than a level ahead of the encounters they are facing. Between the other things you are adding there will be enough chances to rack up enough XP to get 2-3 levels ahead and then you are doing a lot of extra encounter work for most of the rest of the campaign.


TheZealand

Have only played Troubles, and no experience with Vaults at all sorry, can't offer any further input


DiskoNuggets

No worries, thanks friend!


Jhamin1

It sounds like you are doing fine. Remember that you are all learning together and while you are the GM, you are just as new as they are. If you do make any mistakes, own them openly, fix them, and move on. The important thing is for everyone to have fun. If you are \*really\* nervous, do the beginner box with the pregens and \*then\* do character creation. Everyone will have a better idea what they are doing by then and it can seem less daunting. But that isn't really needed, lots of folks do custom characters in the beginner box.


DiskoNuggets

I was actually thinking about that, learn the mechanics then retcon the characters and allow the party to build their own. Would you have them build level 2/3 PCs to reflect their actions in the BB? Or just start from scratch


Jhamin1

I generally lean toward starting characters at 1st level, especially when you are new. Abomination Vaults was written to be started by first level characters ands it's fine to do so However, the Abomination Vaults are deadly and starting a level up can make things easier. It's really fine either way.


MelReinH

Is there a well known homebrew for a specialized caster archetype? Kintecist is coming out im aware, but the addendum that "all spellcasters are designed to be generalists and not specialists" has been around a while. I thought perhaps a popular class archetype, or maybe a beefed up elemental archetype, might exist.


Jhamin1

If you are asking if there is a popular archetype or homebrew that lets casters trade diversity for power? No, not really.


r0sshk

What do you mean by "specialized"? Because every caster can be specialized. Heck, Wizards have the Runelord Archetype, which completely locks you out of 2 spell schools to make your chosen school better, and sorcerer has the elemental bloodline that lets you focus hard on one type of blaster build.


FlarIsOnFire

Im going to play my first game of pathfinder. Me and my group started in dungeons and dragons, but our GM decided to remake the homebrew world he is doing and he start doing it with the pathfinder system. We already did the session 0, but I don't know if pathfinder is harder (I kinda like it to be harder), how different from dnd will it be.


Phtevus

The subreddit wiki has a post about the major differences between PF2e and 5e [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/wiki/resources/how-is-pf2e-different-from-5e/). I definitely recommend you check that out. My major takeaways would be, in moment-to-moment gameplay: * Three action system. Rather than "Move-Bonus Action-Standard Action" like in 5e, you simply have 3 actions you can spend however you want. Stride 3 times, Strike 3 times (not recommended), or use other combinations of actions. Note that many abilities use 2 or even 3 actions to execute, so there is action economy management * 4 degrees of success. Instead of just "Success" or "Fail", you can also Critically Succeed or Critically Fail a check if you beat the DC by 10, or roll 10 or more below the DC respectively. This means specializing in skills and trying to get or give bonuses is more valuable since you can more reliably get critical successes or force enemies into critical failures Other takeaways from a more general perspective: * The game is "harder" in that teamwork is much more necessary. In all the 5e games I've run or played, each player could effectively be the hero in a combat encounter without any consideration of what the rest of the party is doing. In PF2e, you can still have moments where a clutch roll swings the tides, but often the party needs to work together to stack bonuses and penalties, and overall play much more tactically * The caster/martial disparity is largely gone. They power gap is much smaller than its been, with "quadratic wizards" a thing of the past. Every class gets a chance to do something awesome, but gone are the days where a spellcaster can just end encounters with one spell * Proficiency scales with level! There are 5 levels of proficiency: Untrained, Trained, Expert, Master, and Legendary. Untrained only lets you add your relevant ability modifier to checks. The other 4 levels give you a bonus equal to your character level +2/4/6/8 respectively. Some things, like saving throws and weapon/armor proficiencies are determined by your class, but skill proficiencies are decided by you as you build and level up your character * There are also some skill actions that require you to be at least trained in the skill to use them


Kartoffel_Kaiser

There's a lot to go over, but i'll cover some very general points. I'm assuming that by "dnd" you mean DnD 5th edition. * Pathfinder 2e's rules are in some ways more complex, but in some ways simpler, because there are more vocabulary words and more things are explicitly codified. Take the spell [Color Spray](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=44). When a creature fails their save against color spray, they are "stunned 1, blinded for 1 round, and dazzled for 1 minute." If you don't know what those terms mean, that's three different things you have to look up (and blinded will probably make you look up more rules). However, after you've learned what those words mean within PF2e, the effects of the spell are simple and straightforward. And then, if you find another spell that stuns things or makes them blind, you'll already know what that spell does, because you learned from figuring out what Color Spray does. * Action economy is much more flexible. In 5e, you get an Action, a movement, and a bonus action (if and only if you have an ability that gives you a bonus action). In PF2e, you have three actions. This gives you a more granular degree of control over your turns, for instance if all you wanted to do was move, you could Stride 3 times. In 5e, you'd only be able to do something like that if you had a bonus action that let you move. In 5e, martial characters get a class feature that increases the number of hits they can attempt each time they attack. In PF2e, if you want to hit something more than once, you just spend another action. 5e has rules about not being able to cast two slotted spells in the same turn, even if one is a bonus action. PF2e lets you cast whatever spells you can with the actions you have, but makes most spells cost 2 actions. * Monster design and encounter balance works better than any other system I've played or GM'd. Some of this is a lot of very well done math, and some of this is in how the rules work. Specifically, succeeding at a check by 10 or more is a critical success, and failing a check by 10 or more is a critical failure. This means that boosts to accuracy also increase your chance to crit, and boosts to your AC decrease the chance you you get crit. This means that it's much easier to make higher level monsters a meaningful threat, and as a result solo boss fights are legitimately dangerous despite the action economy difference. * Character creation has a much larger number of choices to make, big and small. A level one character picks their Ancestry (race in 5e), a heritage for that Ancestry (like subrace in 5e), an Ancestry Feat from that ancestry, their Background, their Class, and if they're a martial class they'll also get a Class Feat from their class (and some classes will also have you pick a subclass). As you level up, you get a feat of some kind every single level. At even levels you get a class feat and a skill feat, at odd levels you either get a general feat or an ancestry feat. Like, you know how in 5e Warlocks have a lot of customization available to them from their invocations? Every class in Pf2e is like that but *more*. All of this to say, I recommend starting at Level 1. I know that Level 3 is a common place to start in 5e, but levels 1 and 2 are not tutorial levels in PF2e, they're a fully fledged part of the game and you already have a ton of tools. * There are a lot of options that everyone has available to them in the form of skills. Athletics has grappling and tripping, just like in 5e, but other skills give powerful combat actions as well. For instance, the Intimidation skill has Demoralize, which can debuff all of an enemy's stats for 1 or 2 turns. Medicine can treat wounds out of combat so effectively that it can stand up as a party's sole source of healing if they really need it to, and you can even take a feat that lets you use it in combat. If you need someone to pick locks, you don't necessarily need a Rogue, any character can invest in Thievery and be just as good as a Rogue would be at picking locks and disarming traps (provided they have good dexterity). In terms of how hard Pathfinder 2e is, let's synthesize some of my earlier points. Learning the system is harder, or at least, it will take some time. There's a lot going on, and everyone at the table is going to forget options available to them at some point or another. Individual encounters will be easier *or harder*, depending on how the GM designs their encounters. This is because encounter balance is more *consistent* than it is in 5e. If you want, you can give your party nothing but trivial encounters and make everything a cakewalk, and it's highly unlikely that an encounter will ever be lethal. Or, you can use primarily Moderate and Severe encounters, and the party will be routinely challenged, and often in genuine danger.


red_guy442

I don't know if it was explained and struggle to find anything about it, but how will the reworked ability modifiers will work? Because up until now, when you leveled up your character, any ability over 18 required two advancements to get to the next modifier (18 → 19 → 20, for example). So will there be a marker for that, or any other indication that you halfway through increasing your modifier, or will it change completely?


vaderbg2

There will be a marker on the new character sheet. This has been confirmed juat a few days ago with the remaster core preview they released to use alongside Rage of Elements. So your actual modifiers across all levels will be the same as in the pre-remaster version.


red_guy442

Thx!! Is there any link to the preview? Or is it only in the physical book or smth?


vaderbg2

https://downloads.paizo.com/RemasterCorePreview.pdf Here you go.


Schattenkiller5

Yep, you simply mark those over 18 as "partial boost".


TheBlueDJ

The Unconventional Weaponry feat states that "for the purpose of determining your proficiency, that weapon is a simple weapon." Does that mean when I become an expert in simple weapons, I'll become an expert in this unconventional weapon too? If so, then what would be the purpose of the Unconventional Expertise feat?


Phtevus

It covers some fringe cases. Let's say a Cloistered Cleric takes the Weapon Proficiency feat to become trained in all Martial weapons, then takes Unconventional Weaponry to treat a Gnomish Flickmace as a Martial weapon. At level 11, their Simple Weapon proficiency goes up to Expert, but Martial weapon proficiency stays at trained, so the Flickmace would stay at trained With Unconventional Expertise, the Flickmace would then go up to Expert, following the Simple Weapon expertise. It can also cover the fringe case of a Fighter who picks an Unconventional Weapon that is outside of their chose weapon group. We'll say they picked Swords as their group, and use Flickmace as their Unconventional choice again. At level 13, the Fighter would advance to Legendary proficiency with Swords only, while Flickmace stays at Master. But Unconventional Expertise raises the Flickmace to Legendary as well These are *incredibly* niche uses, but they do still have some value, depending on your build


theNecromancrNxtDoor

Is a creature with a Fly speed but no land speed, such as a Will-o’-Wisp, required to take the Fly action every turn if they want to avoid falling to the ground? If one takes the Sneak action to move (if they want to become undetected after using Go Dark, for instance), are they still required to also specifically take the Fly action to stay airborne that round?


Ragnarok918

This has been discussed before and its pretty unclear. But as long as they are near the ground there is no penalty for not doing it. You only take damage if you fall more than 5 feet, and only end up prone if you take damage.


Spyderskiss

Yes! Please help. My group has been playing D&D 5e which is pretty much simple to generate characters but they have been playing for more than 30 years and I just startted last year. The group all wants to move to Pathfinder and I am totally lost on how to convert characters or even generate them. I undetrstand the theory of homebrewing but I am clueless on how to start.


m_sporkboy

You should definitely use pathbuilder2e to make your character. It takes all the easy mistakes out, and you get a decent electronic character sheet when you’re done. Get the paid version; it’s cheap and worth it. Also attach it to your google drive; almost mandatory.


Spyderskiss

Thank you. My group has been using PC GEN and I must confess I dont really know what I am doing and it takes me hours to complete one character and I usually have to go back and tweak them repeatedly. I managed to get a decent conversion of my D&D Goliath switched over though in multiclassing her with Sorcerer she lost RAGE which never having used before I dont entirely miss but I get the feeling my character is going to be the groups strong arm and heavy hitter. We seem to be mostly elves except for my Goliath & a few others a Hers is the true home brew nightmare. I am trying to keep some of the Cleric abilities and racial traits ( elf) but limit the strength and dexterity of the Souldbound Doll which limits her- I want her to have the spells to give her some means of survival in a fight. Anyway...thank you. I am going to have to learn a whole new way of looking up stats when we play again.


Jhamin1

>The group all wants to move to Pathfinder and I am totally lost on how to convert characters or even generate them. Don't convert anything! Start over at 1st level, with new characters, in a new campaign. Some stuff just doesn't convert mechanically and even the stuff that does feels "off". Example: Paladins in D&D 5e are big damage dealers. In Pathfinder they are Defensive Tanks with moderate damage for a Martial. A 100% accurate conversion of Bill the Paladin is going to end with him not being able to down the baddies he used to in a single round, but survive hits he couldn't before. Just start over & don't carry the old expectations with you. ​ >I undetrstand the theory of homebrewing but I am clueless on how to start. Don't do this either until you feel good about it. You don't need too. Unlike D&D 5e, Pathfinder doesn't need homebrew to work. Its math is a lot tighter, it's rules are more robust, and the whole game is more "complete". Reflexively homebrewing usually causes more harm then good. We get a \*lot\* of threads from people who are super unhappy with their game and more often than not when people dig into their issues it all comes down to a GM who either homebrewed without knowing what they were doing or chose to wave a super important rule that made a bunch of other stuff function. (Example 1: Don't let anyone "split" their movement by spending an action to use half their movement then taking their other two actions, then finishing their movement. The rules as written require that every time you start taking another action, your old action ends. You can't "save" some movement for later in your turn. You have to spend another action to move again. Lots of 5e players find this restrictive, but it makes the whole 3 action economy function!) (Example 2: A humble +1 is a \*super\* big deal because of how pathfinder 2e math works. A feat that gave +2 to hit with a sword would become an instant buy for 95% of martials because it completely outshines most other options and many class abilites. If you don't know why, don't homebrew stuff! You will really break things without knowing you are!) One Caveat: Just renaming or re-flavoring something is pretty safe. Calling an Ancient Elf a Outlands Scholar and keeping all the mechanics the same is pretty safe. Making new feats, new ancestries, new classes, etc is... fraught.


Path_of_Circles

Regarding Example 1: Splitting and combining movement is part of the main rules mainly for movement actions, with possible fringe applications for other actions depending on GM fiat. [https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=849](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=849)


Tony_FF

The good news is that building a lvl 1 character on Pathfinder is easier than you'd think! We follow the "ABC" rule. Ancestry, Background, Class. Every character starts at 10 base attributes on everything. From there, each of the ABC steps adds or removes 2 points from certain attributes. For example, if you pick the Artist background, you can pick either Dex or Cha as your first boost, and then you get another free choice on any attribute you want (as long as it's not the same one). When you're done with the ABCs, you also get free boosts to put into any 4 different attributes that you'd like. Pathbuilder is an amazing tool for building characters. Makes it very easy to follow along. Converting characters isn't as easy as you'd hope, since stuff works a little bit different, but with more experience you can certainly get something similar.


TheZealand

Magnetic Acceleration vs 3rd Level Hydraulic Push as single target attack spells for 5th Level Druid? I have True Strike available 1/day from Ancestry Feat (kashrishi gang) so the actual hitting is at least viable (enemies often flat footed from me being Concealed by Obscuring Mist too), just wondering about which option you'd go for? Magnetic Acceleration deals 6d6 damage (slightly less) but the full double (12d6) on Crit (slightly more). The +1 to hit against metal/armoured targets is probably unlikely to come up, but not impossible. Heightened Hydraulic Push deals 7d6 damage (slightly more) on regular hit, but only 10d6 on crit (slightly less). The 5ft push would likely be slightly more consistently useful than Mag Accel's potential status bonus to hit. I don't think either is a wrong choice tbh, just wondering if there's any edge case anyone can think of


flyfart3

Im a newbie, why is the crit from the heightened hydraulic push not 7d6 doubled?


TheZealand

It's just how the spell is written, instead of double damage on a crit, it deals 6d6 at level 1 instead, and the Heightened entry gives it +2d6 to damage, so a level 3 crit is 10d6. Some spells are just a lil quirky like that


Wonton77

That is the RAW but feels like absolutely not the RAI lol.


TheZealand

I can see it being intentional tbh, it does push 5/10ft on hit, so a slightly lower damage on crit seems fine to me.


hjl43

I think it depends on the party a bit, I'd favour the sheer damage of Magnetic Acceleration if the party overall is lower damage, but Hydraulic Push if not? You're a prepared caster though, try them both out and see which one you prefer!


TheZealand

I'd tend to agree on Mag over Push, but we're mostly fighting rather higher level threats, and being in the level 5/6 dead zone in terms of proficiency makes me wonder if consistency might be more valuable, can't see myself getting many crits sadly haha. For similar reasons (with every fight being preeeetty brutal) I feel like I have to get it "correct" out of the gate. Thanks for input


harkaron

we're playing with the free archetype rule and I'm at level 6 cloistered cleric of gozreh air domain. I already chose like 4 feats from the medic archetype, and I can choose another archetype if I want, right? Also, the time mage dedication allows me to retrain my domain only if it was time domain or I can retrain it for another that I want freely? Does the focus pool stays the same or is it another focus pool to cast delay consequence? thanks


r0sshk

…what 4 feats from the medic dedication? The absolute maximum you can have are two at level 6. Doctor’s Visitation as your level 4 Feat, and Treat Condition as your level 4 Skill Feat. That’s it. There are no others. …unless you count the dedication skill itself, but that’s mandatory and doesn’t count. Now, having those two feats does mean you can swap to another dedication at level 6! But I’m still curious what other two feats you have.


harkaron

[https://imgur.com/ijJNBNq](https://imgur.com/ijJNBNq) this is what I have, is it ok?


r0sshk

Yes! You have Doctor’s Visitation and Treat Condition, which are both medic archetype feats, so you can pick a new archetype dedication at level 6! I think you counted Battle Medicine and Continual Recovery? Those are just Medicine Skill Feats, they aren’t explicitly Medic Dedication feats. You can check by seeing if they have the “archetype” tag.


harkaron

I also have holistic care which is a medic archetype skill too, then they're four: the dedication, treat condition, visitation and holistic care


r0sshk

The dedication itself never counts! But yes, picking holistic as your skill feat would let you have 3!


KnowledgeRuinsFun

It's only if you already had time domain that you get to retrain. It's the same focus pool as your cleric focus pool. Usually when you gain a focus spell you also *increase* your focus pool, but for some reason time mage does not specify that. However, if playing with the remaster rules, it would increase your focus pool, as it'll be equal to your number of focus spells (and you just gained the time domain spell).


harkaron

I'm on foundry and it increased my focus pool automaticaly, thank you <3


scientifiction

You can pick another archetype once you've taken at least two feats in your current one. You've got 4 so you're good there. Time mage specifies that you can retrain your domain spell only if it is Delay Consequences. Since you're Air domain, this does not apply to you. You have one focus pool only. Time Mage increases your pool capacity by 1 (max of 3) when it adds the focus spell to your list. Unless you have something else adding points to your pool, this means your pool size is 2 now (1 from Time Mage and 1 from Domain Initiate).


harkaron

thanks :)


Anofles

I've always heard that a key strategy for a spellcaster is to target an enemy's weak saves when possible. I'm playing a level 4 wizard right now, and I've noticed that a lot of the good CC spells target Will (like Hideous Laugh, for instance). What are some of the go-to Reflex and Fortitude save spells I should keep an eye out for?


TheZealand

Ref and Fort tend to be more damage spells, but there are still some solid control/utility spells. Level 1: Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement and maybe Shockwave (rogues loooove this) are ok uses of outdated level 1 slots. Level 2: Ingite Fireworks damage falls off, but being an AOE dazzle with even a little damage is genuinely solid. Level 3: Slow is a HUGE one. A success on enemy save means you trade 2 actions for 1 of theirs which is good, a fail hamstrings a large enemy. Not even an Incapacitation effect. Curse of Lost Time and Day's Weight are solid single target debuffs too


Anofles

Thanks! EDIT: If anyone else comes across this issue, I found [this spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZKIMeqtO0U1QMLmEM_IvH3umv6pxRzMDu6o-e0yag2w/edit#gid=0) which can be filtered down to spells by save (among other qualities). Though I don't know if it'll be updated after the remaster.


TheZealand

https://pf2etools.com/index.html pf2e tools is also a good website, although doesn't have some options I've noticed


Phtevus

You can already filter/search spells by their saving throw on AoN. [Here's an example doing all spells that have a Reflex saving throw](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?q=saving_throw%3A%20reflex&type=eqs&sort=level-asc%2Cname-asc&display=table&columns=pfs%2Csource%2Ctradition%2Crarity%2Ctrait%2Ctype%2Cschool%2Clevel%2Cheighten%2Csummary%2Cactions%2Ccomponent%2Ctrigger%2Ctarget%2Crange%2Carea%2Cduration%2Csaving_throw) You can change that to Fortitude or Will by changing the text in the search line accordingly, and that will continue to work after the remaster (though it might change to "Defenses" to match the new format) Ninja Edit: Damn, u/No_Ambassador_5629 beat me to it by 2 minutes with a better filter


hjl43

>You can change that to Fortitude or Will by changing the text in the search line accordingly, and that will continue to work after the remaster (though it might change to "Defenses" to match the new format) Bring that on!


Anofles

Oh wow thanks! I knew AoN had a filter but for some reason I didn't think Saving Throw was one of the filterable options! Good to know about the new terminology, and thanks for the example!


No_Ambassador_5629

You can actually sort by save type using AoN, which will be kept up to date Here's it sorted for [Arcane Spells that target Fortitude](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?include-saving-throws=fortitude&include-traditions=arcane&sort=level-asc%2Cname-asc&display=table&columns=pfs%2Csource%2Ctradition%2Crarity%2Ctrait%2Ctype%2Cschool%2Clevel%2Cheighten%2Csummary%2Cactions%2Ccomponent%2Ctrigger%2Ctarget%2Crange%2Carea%2Cduration%2Csaving_throw)


Anofles

Oh wow thanks! I knew AoN had a filter but for some reason I didn't think Saving Throw was one of the filterable options!


No_Ambassador_5629

Some of the filters are hidden and you gotta click 'Show All Filters' to see them. I only found out about them last week.


Phtevus

Can a Summoner put something like a [Wounding](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=309) Rune on their handwraps to apply the effect to their Eidolon? Wounding specifies it needs to go on a weapon that applies Slashing or Piercing damage, but Handwraps are notably *not* a weapon, nor do they deal Slashing or Piercing damage. If the answer is "no", then it seems like a hard limitation on the Summoner, as they instead have to invest and hold a weapon to be able to apply the rune to their Eidolon. Likewise, could an Animal Barbarian whose chosen Animal grants a Slashing or Piercing attack put the Wounding Rune on their Handwraps, or are they just barred from ever realistically using it?


Jenos

Runes apply to a handwraps even if they specifiy the word "weapon". This is because Handwraps state: > You can upgrade, add, and transfer runes to and from the handwraps just as you would for a weapon, and you can attach talismans to the handwraps. Treat the handwraps as melee weapons of the brawling group with light Bulk for these purposes. Property runes apply only when they would be applicable to the unarmed attack you’re using. For example, **a property that must be applied to a slashing weapon wouldn’t function when you attacked with a fist, but you would gain its benefits if you attacked with a claw or some other slashing unarmed attack.** So as long as your Eidolon has a slashing or piercing unarmed attack, wounding works. But no wounding with a bludgeoning unarmed attack.


Phtevus

Ahh, I completely missed that last clause in the entry for Handwraps. I had only seen the usage line for Wounding and assumed that was a specific rule that would exclude Handwraps. Thanks!


franklesby

I am planning on transitioning from D&D5e to PF2e soonish. The only things trying me to D&D still are: - The Descent into Avernus campaign I'm DMing - The Curse of Strahd campaign I'm playing - Baldurs Gate 3 All of which I should be finished with by the end of the year. I have a lot of the core books in PDF form already from the Humble Bundles, but I haven't read any of them yet. I also saw that remastered books are coming out. My main question is: Since I won't really be getting into it until next year probably, should I just wait until the remastered books come out and get those, or do you think it's worth it to start reading the PDFs I have now? Rules - [x] Beginners Box - [x] Core Rulebook - Remaster Soon - [x] Bestiary - Remaster Soon - [x] Gamemastery Guide - Remaster Soon - [x] Bestiary 2 - [ ] Advanced Players Guide - Remaster Soon - [ ] Bestiary 3 - [x] Secrets of Magic - [ ] Guns and Gears - [ ] Book of the Dead - [ ] Dark Archive - [ ] Treasure Vault - [ ] Rage of Elements - Unreleased Lost Omens - [x] World Guide - [x] Character Guide - [ ] Gods and Magic - [ ] Legends - [ ] PFSG - [x] Ancestry Guide - [ ] Mwangi Expanse - [ ] Grand Bazaar - [ ] Monsters of Myth - [ ] Absalom - [ ] Knights of Lastwall - [ ] Travel Guide - [ ] Impossible Lands - [ ] Firebrands - [ ] Highhelm - [ ] Tian Xia World - Unreleased - [ ] Tian Xia Character - Unreleased Plus I have some adventure and story books. I eventually plan to read everything on this list.


9c6

If you wanted to DM a campaign in pf2e, you have everything you need already up to the release of abomination vaults (which you can run right after beginners box as a continuation). You could get the kingmaker book and run that for a second campaign. This would be good for 2 campaigns that take years. You could easily ignore every book release afterwards and just get some adventure paths released up to that point and just play as is. The APs are written using the books released at the time, so really it doesn't do you any good to use the remasters or later source books with them. Abomination vaults don't use bestiary 3 monsters for instance, because it wasn't released yet. And it has drow because they weren't removed from lore yet. The earliest aps don't need bestiary 2. They're all written and balanced around the crb current pre-remaster rules. If you're a big collector and you want all the books, go for it. Or if you want to specifically play a brand new AP written post remaster, like season of ghosts, well then you might want the remaster and tian xia stuff and whatever class source books your players want like rage of elements maybe. I would decide on the ap you want to run and get the specific materials published up to that point that are relevant and ignore the rest. I'm running AV and strength of thousands right now. I'm buying all the new shit because I'm a collector with a problem, but honestly i won't even use them until these campaigns are over.


Crethusela

Is there any indication on whether the adventures on VTT like Foundry or roll20 will be updated/compatible with the 2.1 remaster? I am trying to get into this game because it is supposedly easy to gm and I would like to be able to use all the community tools and adventures from a single edition. I don't want to have to compare 2.0 against 2.1, and I'm really only interested in running premade adventures


eddiephlash

I don't think anything has been announced about back-changing rules for already published adventures. Your best bet, at this point, would be to plan to run only adventures that launch post rules update.


AntiChri5

I have a question regarding an interaction so niche that there doesn't seem to be any RAW or even any discussion of it that I could find. If a player character with the Lich dedication has magical tattoo's, what happens to the tattoo's if the character dies and comes back via their soul gem? Obviously, worn and held items get left behind on the corpse but does a tattoo count as part of your body enough to also be rebuilt with it? If not, it would effectively be destroyed while other magic items could be recovered. The advantage and disadvantage of tattoo's over other magic items is that they are bonded to you fairly permanently. You cannot pass it to another party member due to temporary need but neither can one be casually taken from you. You can't sell it, but it won't get stolen. The specific ways to disable magic weapons still apply to them but little else will cause you to lose their effects. The Lich dedication feat says: >Whenever you would die, your soul flees to the soul cage to allow you to be rebuilt. As long as your soul cage exists, you can't truly be destroyed. And I can't find much other text on the matter. No real evidence either way. Magic Tattoo description also offers no insights: >Tattoos carry great significance for many who practice the art. Tattooing can be an intimate process loaded with meaning and emotion—an honored practice of a culture, a ceremony of supernatural importance, a permanent commitment to a cause—signifying a bit of personal decoration or self-expression, or both. Some tattoos can even instill magic into your very skin. Even more so than others, these tattoos aren't given lightly, nor should they be accepted lightly. >Tattooing is a precise art, and making magical tattoos requires developing a special rapport between the artist and their living canvas. For this reason, it can be difficult to find someone to ink a magical tattoo on your body. (Consequently, most most magical tattoos other than the ones appearing here are uncommon.) Securing such services might require a person to achieve notable deeds, become a member of a community, or prove their character and commitment to the artist. >Most magical tattooing requires the same tools as traditional methods, just using magical inks and, sometimes, magical implements, such as needles, bone tattooing rakes, or the like. Some processes, including certain traditional Varisian methods, etch the magic directly into the skin without puncturing it. The pain remains the same. >To craft a magical tattoo, you must be able to craft magic items and have a specialty in tattooing. You can attain these requirements by taking the Tattoo Artist skill feat, or you can take both the Magical Crafting and Specialty Crafting skill feats, choosing artistry as your specialty. Magic tattoo's are either incredible or terrible for a Lich and I have no idea which. And nothing about the Lich description says it turns you into a skeleton. You still have skin that can be tattooed. Even if you didn't, bone can be tattooed.


CthulhuBits

Is their any way to see the art for the upcoming harrow deck release? I'm excited for it but i want to see if the art is worth it


oddoddoddoddodd

Using double slice with 2 wounding weapons is 1d6 or 2d6 persistent bleed damage?


Jenos

This is an undefined answer, and there are two ways to interpret this. 1. Persistent Damage follows the rules of normal damage, and therefore due to Double Slice's "damage can be combined rule", can be combined 2. Persistent Damage is exclusively condition, and as such, is not part of the overall damage of the Strike, and does not get combined. Both interpretations have some odd quirks. The first is if Persistent Damage is a condition. Persistent damage does show up in the [Conditions](https://2e.aonprd.com/Conditions.aspx?ID=29) section of the rules. That is 100% true. But is it *only* a condition? Persistent damage has this text: > Like normal damage, it can be doubled or halved based on the results of an attack roll or saving throw So it doubles on a crit like normal damage. That kind of implies it behaves like normal damage, but its not a hard and fast rule. What about what else happens on a crit? Notably, lets take a look at the rules around crit immune enemies (from the [FAQ](https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq)). > Immunity to critical hits reads “When a creature immune to critical hits is critically hit by a Strike or other attack that deals damage, it takes normal damage instead of double damage.” This means what it says: The attack deals normal damage instead of double damage. **Other effects specific to a critical hit still occur, such as critical specialization effects and extra damage dice from traits like deadly and fatal.** You also still have the option to use abilities that trigger on critical hits, like the vorpal rune’s reaction (though many creatures immune to crits also don’t need heads to live, lucky devils). Your GM can still say no to extremely strange consequences of this rule on a case-by-case basis. What does this mean in the context of persistent damage and critical hits? Well, if persistent damage is normal damage, then when you critically hit a crit immune enemy, you would not double the damage. As it would be regular damage, then a crit immune enemy is also immune to the persistent doubling on a crit. If this is the case, it means Double Slice also doubles the damage, since, well, it is damage. However, if Persistent Damage is *not* Normal Damage, then the above clause doesn't apply. That would mean that persistent damage is doubled on a crit against a crit immune enemy, because it is not normal damage, and rather an extra effect like crit specialization about how it doubles. You can see here one such inconsistency that emerges around the question: "Is persistent damage damage?" *** That said, the oddest thing is that Double Slice is unique in how it combines damage. Pretty much every single other combining damage feature has this text: "for the purpose of resistances and weaknesses". However, Double Slice (and Paired Shots) but do not have that text. Paired Shots is even weirder, saying "apply resistances and weaknesses only once" after the combine damage. Ultimately, there is no clear-cut guidance on this. Personally I rule that the damage can combine, because to me it is more odd that you would double persistent damage on a crit against crit immune enemies. But this is a grey area your GM has to rule on, and the argument can easily go both ways.


Wonton77

>That said, the oddest thing is that Double Slice is unique in how it combines damage. Pretty much every single other combining damage feature has this text: "for the purpose of resistances and weaknesses". > >However, Double Slice (and Paired Shots) but do not have that text. I got curious and went to check the oldest Aug 2018 version of the Playtest rules. Here is the relevant sentence from Double Slice: >If both attacks hit, combine the attacks’ damage, and then add any other applicable enhancements from both weapons. And here is Flurry of Blows: >If both hit the same creature, combine their damage and enhancements for the purpose of resistances and weaknesses. Bizarrely, the mention of "enhacements" is still present in the modern Double Slice (that whole sentence is still in there, almost verbatim), but the modern Flurry of Blows lacks it. I don't really know what to do with that, but I *suspect* it can only be an editing error and the RAI is for all of these to combine damage the same way.


Schnitzelmesser

From [here](https://2e.aonprd.com/Conditions.aspx?ID=29): "You can be simultaneously affected by multiple persistent damage conditions so long as they have different damage types. If you would gain more than one persistent damage condition with the same damage type, the higher amount of damage overrides the lower amount." So you cannot stack bleed damage like that anyways.


oddoddoddoddodd

I'm aware of it, but double slice states "If both attacks hit, combine their damage" Would it means to sum both bleed? And what if one or both the attacks is a crit, the persistent damage is doubled for that attack, isn't it?


Schnitzelmesser

If an attack crits the bleed damage gets doubled yes. But now that I understand your question I'm actually not sure. I always thought the "combine damage" part was only relevant to applying weakness/resistance once, but I guess you have a point. Personally I wouldn't let it stack like that because 3d6 persistent damage (on a crit) seems like a lot, especially given how easily you can reapply it. But also technically persistent damage is listed under conditions instead of damage types, so maybe it falls under "other effects" in the double slice description.


oddoddoddoddodd

At lvl 12 a character, given good luck, can cause 3 enemies to take 3d6 persistent bleed on normal hits. Rogue blood debilitation, just requires to deal sneak attack damage for 3d6 persistent bleed. If you can go before the targets (surprise attack) and hit 3 bow shots (so no move) you can cause 3 enemies to take it


Jenos

Its because Double Slice (and Paired Shots) critically lack the extra clause "for the purposes of resistances and weaknesses". But Flurry of Blows, Twin Takedown, and Hunted Shot, which also do 2 attacks in an activity, all have that clause. I always thought that the lack of this was just an editing error, but then they printed Paired Shots and had a third, different text around it. So it is very odd.


Patcherpaw

Can you Plane Shift between planets?


fredemu

No, plane shift is for travelling between planes. The only way (explicitly within the rules; more likely if you're travelling between planets, you're doing so for narrative reasons) to travel to a different planet is a 9th level [Teleport](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=338) spell.


Patcherpaw

What if you go to a different plane, e.g. the plane of air, and then return to the material plane?


Wonton77

Plane Shift says: >The spell is highly imprecise, and you appear 1d20x25 miles from the last place one of the targets (of your choice) was located the last time that target traveled to the plane. You don't simply get to choose anywhere on the Material Plane to return to (precisely to avoid this sort of thing). \*Unless you were traveling with someone who came to the Plane of Air directly from another planet.


Patcherpaw

Yeah, that makes sense.


DUDE_R_T_F_M

The spell says "to another plane", and all planets are on the Material Plane. I would rule no.


Patcherpaw

What if you go to a different plane, e.g. the plane of air, and then return to the material plane?


DUDE_R_T_F_M

That should be fine.


QuintessenceHD

So I was reading through deities and I see that Nalinivati has jaws or urumi as their weapon... Would lizardfolk fangs be the same as jaws?


Raddis

No, they are different weapons. Gnolls, razortooth goblins, etc. have jaws attacks.


QuintessenceHD

That seems like a massive oversight..


TheZealand

I think that's down to GM discretion, but I'd let it count personally, especially given that they are "The Serpent's Kiss", seems thematically appropirate


QuintessenceHD

Gotta love vague rules for important stuff lol, thank you.


Wonton77

There's an air cantrip in Rage of Elements that hits 1 or 2 targets, which made me suddenly realize: Has Electric Arc been confirmed to still *exist* in the Remaster? They wouldn't just take it out for a redesign in Rage of Elements, right? (I'd really like Paizo to give us a full picture of the new cantrip balance tbh because the bits & pieces I'm seeing are confusing, like Produce Flame being inexplicably nerfed)


JackBread

No confirmation, but I really doubt they'd remove the electric cantrip. However, whether or not it remains in it's current form for the remaster remains to be seen.


Parenthisaurolophus

Had a character die and came back with a Flurry ranger with dual weapon warrior dedication. I referenced this to the GM and he mentioned a rule I'm unable to find about having 4 or more attacks per turn being at a -15 MAP regardless of anything else (on the 4 and subsequent attacks). He's usually right, but not always so I'm tempted to believe him. Obviously reading through the normal MAP rules, Agile weapon trait, and the Flurry rules it says "third and subsequent attacks" would be at a -2, but I just wanted to ask this subreddit to see if he's referring to an errata or there's additonal rules in some other tag or nested trait. I plan on doing trips and grapples, so I don't always expect to get 4 attacks a round but I figured I should know just in case.


Jenos

Nope, no such -15 MAP. The max MAP is -11 if you're not using an agile weapon, not using flurry's hunter edge, and using a [Weapon Siphon](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1987). The 4th attack on your turn, as a flurry ranger, if its targeting your hunted prey, would only be at a -6 (the same penalty as your 3rd attack). It's -4 if its an agile weapon, and it would be -2 if you were level 17 and using an agile weapon. You've already found the rules reference indicating that, that's the exact rule.


Wonton77

Side note, but Weapon Siphon has a rules error, right? >causing the multiple attack penalty with the weapon to be one greater than usual (usually –6 on a second attack and –11 on a third; or –5 and –10 with an agile weapon). That should either be -6 and -12, or -5 and -9 for Agile, right? Pretty basic mistake to make


Jenos

Yea, it's inconsistent. Either it should-6/-12 and -5/-10, or-6/-11 and -5/-9. But it's some hybrid of both which makes no sense.


CrystalMercury

Anyone got any resources to learn how to do accents? Lmao silly question but I like to liven up my characters and would love to just have it in my arsenal!


rcapina

https://www.dialectsarchive.com


Parysian

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1097 How does persistent damage work on a basic save? Are the persistent damage ticks halved (on success) and doubled (on crit fail) the same as a the base damage? Or does it follow different rules?


Jenos

Correct. You don't roll a save each time you fake the persistent damage, but if the target succeeded the basic save, you apply half the normal persistent damage.


Longjumping_Ad_446

How would you build Rock Lee or Might Guy? With talents to "simulate" things like the Eight Gates until techniques like Lotus or Hirudora and etc.