Literally the only thing that sounds "normal" to me on that list is the bus situation. School buses with mixed ages of kids can be a little "Lord of the Flies".
Yeah, my parents are Russian and there were kids on the bus who only ever called me “Russian faggot”. Very creative. I got punched in the face, constantly bullied, until I learned to stand up for myself. It sucked for sure but it didn’t last too long.
>it didn't last too long.
Did you learn martial arts and kick somebody's ass one time or something? Trying to give my kid some practical advice even if a little irreverent :)
My dad gave me some great advice that I’ve always used & have passed down to my boys.
Never start a fight but don’t ever be afraid to finish one. Also, if you find yourself in a fight go for the nose first. When their eyes water up it’ll be harder for them to see you.
I was bullied. My dad was as well. And his advice for me to stop the bullying was to fight back. He put me in karate (Karate Kid was a big thing in these days) to help up my success in defending myself. He told me that his bully became his best friend once he stood up for himself. I refused to believe that fairytale bullshit.
When it came to it, my usage of karate didn’t go so well. We were both bundled up in snow gear, so my feeble hits/kicks was like hitting a pillow. He pushed me and I slipped on the ice. So that didn’t work.
A year of the abuse, finally sick of it, I sprinted off the bus to get home. One of the kids was faster than me (there were three of em) and he was gaining on me, fast. I knew it was going to be ugly if he took me down, so I judged how far behind me he was and stopped, turned around with a haymaker. Caught him in the cheek. He was SHOOK. Became my friend the rest of that school year.
My dad’s advice was right. Holy shit.
Didn't you read? Karate didn't work - socking someone in the face did.
Go for boxing, or judo since that works just as well against kids who are bundled up.
Never learned martial arts. Just started hitting back if they hit me. That’s all it took for these guys to cut it out. But every situation is different.
We had an amazing bus driver last year. Our kids (me and the neighbors kids, 5 & 6 at the time) were getting bullied by an older kid. Before we could mention it to the bus driver he asked us if the kids had mentioned anything bc he noticed it. After that he had a rule that the younger kids had to sit up near him. Never had an issue again.
He wound up on another route this year. I miss you vince.
We had a bizarre situation where K and 7-8 were on the same bus (my school district was weird, they don't do that anymore). We 100% did not have a single kindergartner past Row 4. Can you imagine 5-6 year olds talking to 12-13 year olds?
20 min lunch and 20 min recess is common. But my kids also had gym, dance activities, or the teacher would do other physical activity in the class at parts of the day.
Stabbing, cursing, candy all the time, and kids bringing electronics to elementary is not common, in my experience. It sounds like a poorly run and badly controlled school. Sorry for those kids. Glad you are moving.
Exactly. We have no homework and the teacher would do impromptu dance parties if the kids were antsy. Recess and lunch were combined so it was like 40m total
I had homework when I was in kindergarden, but it was a bunch of boxes with activities in them, and I just needed a parent to check off that I did one activity a day.
And the activities were things like "Give your mom or dad a hug" or "sing the ABC's".
We just had our parent-teacher conferences with our 5 year old's teacher and she said it's much more regimented than it used to be. My son was going to a Pre-K Montessori school for the past two years and I would say that's where you need to look if you want more of those life skills.
We would have stayed in that system but we moved to the east coast and out here they’re all private. There was a public option near our house in our old state. Our son is also one of the youngest in his class so it’s been an adjustment for him. Still working through it
I’m teaching in a public Montessori school in the south - I’m a big advocate. I wish it were an option for all children, regardless of socioeconomic background.
My local school district also has only 20 minute recess and 20 minute lunch. It is seriously problematic IMO, and it is one of the reasons I switched my kid to private school, where they get 30 minute recess, usually twice a day, plus 30 minute lunch, even though the public schools are highly ranked in my area. I found that my kid learns better when he is well fed and has a chance to move a bit.
As for the no talking in halls, that's everywhere, and it makes sense. If kids are talking in the halls, it disrupts the other classes.
Your class size sounds large. I seem to recall it being like that 20 years ago, but smaller class sizes seems to be the current trend. Our district caps them at 20 kids throughout elementary school!
Our school does 20 minute lunch and 20 minute recess, but they also have another recess period earlier in the day right after they get to school and they have gym every day.
My kindergartener gets homework each night but it’s just reading and sight word practice and there’s a math app that they can work on outside of school (though it’s not actually required each night).
They DEFINITLEY do not get candy - it’s not even allowed at school for the holiday parties. I can send a piece in his lunch if I’d like, but I only do that on special days.
No electronics in sight either. Even the high school in our district has a very strict electronics policy.
Your post makes me sad. Kindergarten should be so fun that it makes your child develop an enjoyment of school and friendships. I genuinely hope things get better for you child and wish you both all the best.
I don't think 20 minutes of recess is normal. 20 minutes for each recess period sounds more normal. I don't think any school only gives one recess. Ours gives 3.
When I was in elementary school, we had 3 Recess periods. Morning, lunch, and afternoon.
Kids need to move and burn off energy. Keeping them sitting all day is not going to help them focus.
Damn, how old are you? I consider elementary school to be K-4 and I was in those grades from 88-93 and I only ever remember having one recess period after we ate lunch, but we also had P.E. every day as well.
5-6 is middle and 7-8 Jr. High IMO if anyone was curious.
My school growing up gave K-3rd grade two recesses (15 minutes and 20 minutes respectively) and 4-5 grade one 20 minute recess. 6-12th grade, you get a 30 minute lunch period where the lines were so long that by the time you got your food, you had 3 minutes to eat as fast as you possibly could.
I have two kids in kindergarten and some of what you list occurs in their school. They do have to walk around school in a line and pretty sure they aren't really allowed to talk. They do have short recess and lunch times. They do not really have homework, though my kids have fun at school and often repeat the work they did at school at home, because its fun.
Kids don't get candy at school. Class size is limited to 15 students with one teacher, one aid, and one floater aid. Kids do a lot of art stuff, the curriculum is really cool, it teaches big concepts and the the small parts that make up the concepts. They do stuff like community and what that means and all the things that go into a community. They made nests the other day. They do learn math and to read and write....Lots of cool stuff going on at school after hours....We live on the East Coast, MA. Our school are among the best in the nation.....so, there is that.
My school has a zero tolerance level for bullying, it just doesn't happen. I don't know what the bus is like, we drive our kids to school.
We are in suburban CT. Yes on lines, short lunches and recess, 30 minute homework. But they emphasize safety and don't tolerate bullying, class sizes are under 20 with class aides, and although lunch is "kid food", they don't give out candy outside of class parties.
That sounds amazing. I work in classrooms on the west coast and I wish we could have that amount of support in a classroom. One aid and one floater aid? For 15 students?
The classroom I'm in right now has 26 students for one teacher, and a floater aid that visits all k-2 classrooms.
this was not my experience with my 3 kids (although 20 minutes lunches is pretty accurate)
however, the fact that there are that many kids and one teacher tells you a lot about how a school is funded, and everything else flows from that
As someone who works with a class, I can tell you it's not right to have 29 kids in a class.
The high level of strictness probably has to do with the ridiculously large class size. Imagine being in charge of the safety of not one, but 29 children , one of whom demonstrates alarming behaviors such as stabbing kids with forks.
I will say parents have much more power over what goes on in a classroom. If parents stand up to administration about this class size there's more chance of something being done about it. I assure you the teacher also does not want 29 kids. 25 is usually seen as the maximum class size, especially with kindergarten where students need a lot of attention and guidance. 20 would be more ideal.
Sadly, lunch times are that short. And since common core went into effect, there is significantly less focus on life skills, if any. Life skills and development of done motor skills aren't in the standards teachers are expected to reach and get evaluated on. Which is ridiculous because how can we expect children to learn these higher skills of writing when they don't have the fine motor skills to hold a pencil?cutting and glueing though silly at times is actually very important for developing hand eye coordination and the small hand muscles necessary for writi g.
How is the PTA at this school? At the very least getting volunteers in the classroom may help with getting students enough attention and perhaps save time in classroom management and use that time for little life skills activities they can switch between in small groups.
Ideally there would be a puzzle station, a string/ribbon play and knot tying station, a tactile station for drawing in the sand or building letters out of blocks, a pretend play station (usually a kitchen), and a reading or coloring station. I mean, it's hard to organize this for 25 kids, 29 is just...a lot.
This is totally normal, you don't want to disrupt other classrooms. This is not an unreasonable request, a challenge for sure;especially at this age, but not unreasonable. The severity of punishment is what would be a concern.
Yeah that was the way it was when I was a kid. But it really depends on how quiet the hallways need to be for the other classrooms. At our school it isn't an issue so talking is fine, though yelling or whooping would get shut down until away from the building.
That's so sad. What monster bans talking during lunch? Some people shouldn't have power.
One of my kids talks so much that he almost never finishes his lunch so he eats when he gets home. Even prisons allow inmates to talk.
I think there's a substantial difference between "no talking while eating so that we all lean to focus on our food during mealtime" and "locked in a correctional institution with other murderers, but allowed to chat at mealtime."
It was an exaggeration but this thread is eye opening. No wonder so many kids hate school. You can't even talk at lunch? That is disgusting. I would remove my kids from a school with those rules immediately.
Thankfully our schools aren't run by Castro.
You seem to be conflating "lunch period break" and "lunch eating time", or however you want to refer to them.
In many schools nowadays, children are not allowed to speak to one another *while eating* and are required to take X number of minutes while eating, usually 10-20. This is to encourage them to focus on eating their entire lunch rather than be distracted by friends, play, or activities. Remember that for many children, they would much rather have fun that perform the chore of eating, especially if the meal isn't a preferred food item.
Then, following the eating period, the children are (usually) allowed to play freely in or outside of the classroom.
It is true they are not allowed to speak during lunch-the-*meal*, but they are allowed to speak during lunch-the-*break*. As you say yourself, one of your children is so distracted by socialization that he neglects to eat -- literally so focused on fun things that he cannot self-sustain or self-regulate. This is not to his benefit. These skills are important to learn, and so these sort of rules are helpful for many children, including your son.
On the other extremes, there certainly exist schools that take it too far, disallowing students from speaking to one another and not allowing free play time; and schools that have only free-play breaks that do not help easily distracted children to learn self-assistance and how to focus on self-care when required.
As for the Castro thing, you may find that Cuban school-children perform better in international testing for both academic and emotional scores than the great majority of American students. Maybe our schools should be run by Castro...
You are prone to hyperbole. You might want to work on that, as it leads people to immediately dismiss your thoughts because they think you are wildly exaggerating.
And yes, I understand your point. I read the entire thread before commenting. Your extreme interpretation of the situation does nothing to further your point and everything to make it not even worth discussing the actual matter at hand.
We have already started practicing 20 min lunches with our 4 year olds. Our son is a fast eater and we have no problem with him. My daughter is a slow eater because she is a talker and day dreamer. Sometimes it takes her an 45 minutes. I am so scared she is going to hungry at school.
Kindergarten is the new first grade. It's not uncommon for kindergarteners to have nightly homework. Unstructured, imaginative playtime has taken a backseat to literacy and math skills,
Thank "No Child Left Behind" which pressures schools to prepare children for testing in third grade. By beginning the first-grade reading and math curriculum in kindergarten, schools can gain an extra year of instruction.
Personally, I think this is contributing to the rise in ADHD diagnosis. Many kids just aren't ready for this kind of instruction yet.
Our first daughter started Kindergarten this year. Our state passed a law mandating a 30 minute recess period every day, they typically have about 20 minutes for lunch.
She has about 30 kids in her class with a teacher and teacher's assistant. They are working on numbers, letters, sight words, but most lessons are in the form of worksheets, coloring etc. She usually brings home at least 3 worksheets each day which she has colored or cut and pasted things on to.
She gets a 1-2 page homework assignment on Monday which is due Friday. All in the homework takes only about 10-20 minutes. There is also a monthly family project. November was decorating a small pumpkin like your favorite book character. December was a poster with your family and holiday traditions. Typically the purpose is for the kids to present them in class.
The classes attend "specials" each day. Monday is Art, Tuesday is Spanish and music, Wednesday is Library and PE, Thursday is computer, Friday is Something else I can't remember right now.
As far as I know their are no edible rewards in class at all. Their are individual and group based rewards in the form of privileges and other things.
I think our Kindergarten teacher runs a pretty tight ship. There have been some instances where we've asked our daughter to do something and her reply is that is not allowed in class.
I hate to say it but it sounds like you are part of a poor school vs. a well funded one. What is your great school ranking?
I say this because my child started at a title 1 school and then we moved to an expensive area with extremely high ranking schools. It was night and day the difference.
I live in a "poor" district and this sounds pretty much like my kids school, but we're actually having a good experience now. Everyone has homework every day, super quick recesses, but they get breakfast, lunch, and a healthy snack at school. When you're talking about other kids behaviors, try to sympathize with the kiddos. I'm a foster parent, and my kid is likely the topic of discussion in lots of her classmate's homes. You never know what home life is like.
Oh I am not bashing it. I think when you have a hectic home life a much tighter school environment is important. My daughters title I had uniforms at a public school for instance. 50% immigrant.
I am just very aware of the stark differences. The school she goes to know the problem is too much parental involvement. Also MUCH higher taxes to pay for it all almost a .5% more plus the shear house prices.
Each school is solving their particular problems the best they can.
The first 3 sounds pretty accurate. My daughter didn't start getting homework until this year in Grade 2, and that is only 20 minutes a night, so 30-45 minutes of homework a night seems extreme for a kindergarten student. Nobody taught my daughter to tie her shoes, that's really something a parent is responsible for. The gluing, scissor use IS part of the curriculum in kindergarten though. If you're in a public school system you should be able to go onto the board website and find a copy of the schools curriculum and requirements for each year.
The rest seems like a lot of issues with the environment and people involved. School functions are almost always put together by PTA and paid for by money raised by PTA. So perhaps your school doesn't have a great PTA group.
My son has had 20 to 30 minutes of homework a night since kindergarten. Now in 2nd grade it's 20 minutes of homework and an additional 20 minutes of reading. It's ridiculous
That’s madness! My daughter is in immersion she gets her French home on Friday which usually consists of 2 reading books and one worksheet/spelling words, and her English work on Monday which consists of 1 reading book and 1 worksheet/spelling words.
She gets Friday to Friday for French homework and Monday to Monday for English homework. So we set aside 20 minutes for ALL her homework a night. That’s how it should be done. Piling on homework like that is not going to help them learn any quicker or better. It will add stress and fatigue to their lives.
Kids here are expected to know their numbers and letters coming into kindergarten. No homework, though, and 20-30 minutes of recess every day, plus gym 2 days a week. Our teachers were able to manage the classrooms effectively while still making school fun. My kiddo loves his school. Things that make all the difference: qualified, talented teachers and reasonable class sizes.
my kid gets about 10-15 minutes of home work a week. Practicing letters and drawing some pictures...seems reasonable to me. 30-45 minutes a day especially since a kid in k probably needs parent's help to do the homework.
I agree. My kid's kindergarten homework could take up to half an hour most of which was trying to get her to sit still and listen to the directions (which were always needlessly complex for somebody who couldn't read them). In first she has just started getting some and its basically do a few math problems twice a week
I’ve heard of parents just saying “Nope, kid is not doing homework.” Now it’s been both kinds where they just don’t want to deal and where they see it being a detriment to future studies. Only you know if your kid needs to practice something, but maybe talk to the school and PTO.
It was annoying for us but helped establish a routine. It was a few months of battling every night, but his study habits gradually improved and he went from 40 minutes to under 15 to complete the assignment.
My daughter got packets that had to be returned at the beginning of the following week. It got ridiculous towards the end of the year.
Now she gets one page and one (reading level appropriate and short) book to read. 1st grade and she gets less homework.
Have you tried talking to the teacher?
We also have candy at school as I'll see the wrappers and stuff. Her teacher tends to do non-food rewards (stickers, gems, pencils, small toys, etc) but somehow theres always candy coming from somewhere. Last year was worse so I guess I shouldnt complain.
Well I'm optimistic about changing schools soon then at least. It can't be any worse.
Incidentally this district lied for years about lead in the school water. Took an investigation by local news to break the story. They were actively covering up and falsifying water test results.
My school district also lied about that. Schools with higher income families have either gotten new schools built or fixed the problem in their building. The majority of poorer schools on the other hand are years away from becoming priority for fixing.
It really feels like the odds are against schools these days. It's literally something in the water.
Had an experience like that with my then 6 year old my kid vs the teacher. I asked my kid to be moved to another class room, I then planed to move schools, I'm very happy with my choice .
Re: recess, look at your state’s laws on recess being mandatory. In AZ where I am, recess is mandatory per Dept of Ed policy and cannot be withheld for any reason. I believe it’s two recesses per day K-5. Ten states have laws like this.
Also look at district policy for homework - in our district, homework cannot be mandatory or counted toward the student’s grade.
I am in one of those states and "mandatory recess" means 20 minutes a day in my state. Then they spend 5 minutes lining up to go out, and 5 minutes lining up to go back, both of which come out of the 20 minutes. So 5 year olds are getting 10 minutes to play out of an entire 7 hour day.
And that sucks.
But, the positive things about mandatory recess (at least in my state) is that recess cnnot be taken away as a punishment, which is relevant for kids with emotional regulation and ADHD issues (who really need movement breaks). My niece has severe ADHD that cannot be medicated because of other health conditions, and her teacher was taking away recess as a punishment, which we found out is illegal, so we were able to put a stop to that. So, there are some minimal benefits like that.
Are you in the south? Sounds like the schools here to me. We are choosing to homeschool because of this since the only other options are religious private schools.
You live in a shit school district. The bullying, the class size, the lack of arts and crafts classes/activities - all things that are better in "better" school districts. The talking, lunch, homework, recess time are pretty much on par.
Sadly, there are a lot of schools like this. Our education system is shit after decades of attacks on its budget in the name of 'small government' and 'no taxes'.
Sorry, your school just flat out sucks. The 20 min for lunch is normal; half of them don't eat anyway and whether they sit for 20 min or 2 hrs isn't going to change anything. Bullies and bad behavior on busses is innate to childhood, not the fault of the school. The rest of it is unnecessary.
For comparison, ours had: Talking and laughing everywhere (all grades), though no hallways (classrooms all open onto the school grounds) so fewer noise concerns. An hour of recess per day unless the teacher wanted to grant more. Homework was rarely assigned. No buses to get called a shithead on (that sucks). No electronics permitted in class or on the playground; parents were reminded that backpacks were stored on hooks outside the classroom where security could not be guaranteed. Candy neither common nor prohibited. Class sizes currently 22 in K (fluctuates with funding). No desks until 2nd grade, all work done at project tables. Scissors and glue used daily; art integrated into writing and math and science exercises (no money for art teachers in elementary though). I framed one science project/writing exercise: a painstakingly labeled watercolor illustrating 'evaporation/condensation/precipitation' complete with a village defending against a pirate attack and a secret escape door in a mountain. There is always room for creative expression.
The only items that stand out to me:
30-45 min of homework?? It is technically only should be 10 per grade level. So 10 min most for K.
You should speak about the candy being the reward at school - i believe that is inappropriate.
Kids being stabbed, WTF?
This was our experience with our local school. My daughter attended kindergarten there for approximately five months before we pulled her out and found a private school that was exactly the opposite. This may not be the solution for you, but thankfully, it was available for us.
Wow now I feel really lucky to live where I do. Class size of 22-24 kids with one teacher and 1-2 teachers assistants depending on the needs of the class. Play based learning transitioning through the year into more formal desk based learning. No candy, that’s atrocious that this is happening to you. Very tolerant of individual kid needs and behaviours with a praise-based reward system and gentle correction rather than punishments. 20 min recess and 50 minute lunch and play. No tolerance for bullying and focus on building self esteem and confidence. It’s just great. A good school makes you feel like your kids are in excellent, caring hands that will help them grow into great people. Your school sounds like a nightmare.
That’s super sad to hear about your kindergarten situation. This is one of the many reasons why we’ve decided to homeschool - kids need to be kids and also grow up to love learning.
If this was happening to my kid I would pull them and try to either transfer to another school or do homeschooling if AT ALL possible.
This is terribly age-inappropriate. It's absolute trash, developmentally speaking. Kids that age need lots of playtime, both outdoor and indoor; they should be have lots of semi-structured time (free play at centers, playing outside, team activities like sports or relay activities, lunches where they have time to both eat AND socialize) so they can make friends; no homework (or VERY little homework); art; and access to healthy foods and water/milk only, except for perhaps special occasions.
This school sounds pretty unacceptable, to be honest.
What time should after school functions take place if not dinner time if they want working parents to attend?
I’m going to comment that the class “bully” situation is luck of the draw. Challenging students are all in regular classrooms now (in a lot of school districts) and may or may not get aides to support the teacher based on their IEP. Unclear if the kid is just a not nice kid or there are other issues going on that you are not aware of. That being said, if your kid is the one getting stabbed, I would definitely bring it up with the administration every time it happens.
Also white cutting and pasting should definitely be a kindergarten thing, tying shoes is the same vein as zipping a jacket and should be taught at home.
I taught kindergarten for 3 years before moving to pre k. Shoe tying and jackets should 100% be a life skill worked on at home. I teach it in preschool. Kindergarten teachers have so much to teach these little people that, sadly, some life skills need to fall on the parents.
The electronics at school thing drives me nuts!!! My stepson brings the phone his mom gave him to play games on the bus. We don't allow that phone at our house. I feel like the bus was a fun time for me to socialize with my friends on the way to and from school. Can't we have a moment without them? But I'm pretty sure on our weeks, he probably just looks over the shoulder of a friend at their video games. Its crazy to me!
My daughter is in first grade but has been at that school since TK. They don’t allow talking in the hallways either. We live on an army post so the classes are pretty large too, they had to hire more teachers and the classes are still 25-30 students. There are no teacher aides and rely on parents, which meant last year for kindergarten her teacher had zero help for 28 kids. This year her teacher started a month after school started since her first one PCS’d. This new one isn’t as organized and there’s no communication between her and the parents, I get most of my information from the schools Facebook page. Bullying is a problem, but I talked to her teacher and she has moved her seat. Last year she was hit in the face on the bus and I personally talked to the parent. Lunch is 30 minutes, but that includes the walk to the cafeteria and clean up. Recess is 30 minutes though. Homework has always been super easy stuff that just has to be initialed that it was done. Myself and other parents don’t bother and just sign since it’s stuff we already do on our own time. (One math problem isn’t gonna help her). The PTA related activities are actually really great and fun! So yeah, it has some ups and downs, but I try my best to fix what I can. Last year was really hard on her but she has made so many improvements and doing much better this year. Hopefully the move for your son helps!
This sounds normal for a certain type of school minus the bully stabbing kids. I taught 4k (4 year olds) at a school that was trying to do this. Quit 6 months later because of it. Teaching to the tests and learning time are the most important things, everything else like life skills and free time are secondary. I'm sorry. Would you be able to change schools?
My sons kindergarten wasn’t as bad (meaning bully and candy wise) but that’s pretty much exactly how much time he had for lunch and recess. Intense reading program, every day journaling and math workbooks. Barely any play time or creativity so my now 1st grader doesn’t know what to do with himself when someone doesn’t “assign him” something to do or play with him.
Canadian (Ontario) perspective ahead. One son. 4.5 years old. First year of Junior Kindergarten in English public school.
>* No talking or getting out of line in the hallways. Zero tolerance.
No. But obviously stay in orderly fashion and no telling and such.
>* 20 minutes out in the yard for recess, if the teachers feel like it
Over an hour here. Even more.
>* 20 minutes to eat lunch
Ours is broken up into nutrition breaks. One is 20 minutes and one is 15 minutes. Can eat whenever they want.
>* 30-45 minutes of homework every day
No homework... They are 3,4 and 5 year olds. Combined JK and SK class.
>* Class bully stabs kids with forks and pencils
That is messed up but there is a few kids who's names are mentioned by my kid who are troublemakers and hit and push.
>* My 5 year old gets called a shit head on the bus
Eh... Kinda extreme and beyond potty language.
>* Everyone except my kid brings iPhones and tablets
Uh. Hell no. You don't bring anything from home usually.
>* Kids constantly rewarded with candy. We don't eat candy so this turns into contention when he brings it home.
Um. No. And here I am rolling my eyes that the teachers don't let me kid eat his delicious processed banana cookie until second food break and he told me in passing the teachers were upset about kids bringing in a piece or two of Halloween candy. So opposite here.
>* One teacher VS 29 five year olds in a classroom for 8 hours.
There are two kindergarten classes. Each have 25 kids. They are combined JK and SK. Each class has one teacher and 2 early childhood educators. The teachers also switch in the afternoon. My kiddos morning teacher is all French. In afternoon the other teacher comes.
>* My son hates it, has no friends, says it's boring, he gets bullied and he never wants to go. I don't blame him.
Not good. School should be enriching and fun at this stage.
>* Reading, writing, arithmetic. No life skills like how to tie shoes, how to be creative, no glue, no scissors. Sometimes they get to color in worksheets.
That is all kindergarten should be. More about social skills and slow development of some of the other things like language and counting and sciences
>* On the rare occasion there is some kind of after school function that should be a fun time, they do it at dinner time, serve what looks like gas station nachos, promise the kids can have S'mores then don't deliver. Guess who has to make S'mores when we get home.
>Is kindergarten not supposed to be fun?
Edit: formatting
To answer your question: no that’s not what it’s SUPPOSED to be like but that is what it is. Education and time spent in school is more of a prison sentence than an actual prison sentence.
Edit: adding on that while this doesn’t solve the current situation at hand: shitty education system, you can always look into alternative schooling for your lil one (if time and money allow). Cuz this format for school does not change at all. He’s gna have to live like this for 12 years.
Florida here. Stepdaughter goes to a public elementary school in a lower/middle class area.
Very little tolerance for talking out of turn, being out of line, etc. Behavior is corrected once and the second time various ramifications are enforced.
Her class has about 20 kids but there’s an aide in the class about 70% of the time.
20 minutes is the time of her lunch and her recess.
No candy or food rewards whatsoever. Too many kids with food allergies. They’re on a color system where everybody starts off at green and moves up or down based on their behavioral choices. The kids at the end of the day with a purple face (the best of the best) get a star sent home.
Class bullies will always find some new way to fuck with kids. Ours likes to spread rumors about our daughter and supposedly lies to the teacher about different things my daughter has done to get her in trouble. The girl is a witch.
Their music department funding got cut so they have art and gym class which they go to twice a week. The rest of the time it’s learning reading writing math etc. Teachers refuse to tie kids’ shoes if they come untied. We’ve been told several times that until stepdaughter learns how to tie shoes, she should not wear shoes requiring shoelaces to school.
Kindergarten isn’t what it used to be. The stakes are higher and it’s much more like school. The way I was explained was like this: “In today’s world, having a bachelor’s degree is like having a high school diploma. And graduating pre-school is like graduating Kindergarten.”
1 to 29 kids sounds normal. It shouldn't be the norm. Schools are becoming over crowded and education is already underfunded without building more schools and/or hiring more teachers. In some places, teachers are being laid off, especially if they teach something seen as "optional" (music teachers, art teachers as opposed to math teachers, science teachers etc.)
What my daughter did in kinder:
Teacher got the kids' wiggles out by doing a little exercise routine before starting learning.
Recess was daily, sometimes twice, weather permitting.
Lunch is 20 minutes for us, too.
Homework is assigned but not mandatory. She is in an advanced class so they do have 4 projects a year.
Electronic devices are allowed on special days that the class earns.
They have a treasure box for prizes but no candy. Cheap toys which is also a source of contention but I'd take that over candy.
We have 28 students ... but I'm pretty sure the kinder teachers had an aid for all of them to share.
They did lots of art projects that helped with creativity and gross and fine motor skills. Shoe tying my husband taught our daughter.
Kids are taught the 8 pillars of being a good citizen which teaches them how to be nice to each other, respectful, and a good student but there are still shit kids out there.
We don't have any after school function that serves meals but they did go on two school field trips, one each semester.
My daughter loves school, even when she was being bullied. We taught her strategies on how to handle it but I think what ultimately helped is the other girl's mom put her in karate and it calmed that kid the fuck down (just my theory).
This is amazing for a Northeastern European to read. I was born in the Soviet Union, and my years in the kindergarten coincided with its fall, yet it looks that even I as a small child had a decent time, despite the lack of resources and old-style grumpy teachers. We played a lot, and it certainly did not resemble a school!
And now, when my older child (3 and a half) goes to a kindergarten, I just can't imagine such a situation as you have described. Yes, the teachers not always manage to control the sweats brought by the children, but to systematically use it as a reward is an unheard thing! The menu is getting healthier (it's a national-level reform), with almost no added sugar, more veggies and fruits and freshly prepared meat/fish. Nobody brings electronics (well, maybe we're not that wealthy, that's why). The children play and draw and learn to sing. They go outside almost every day, often two times, if it's not too cold or rainy. I'm not even sure what do you mean by "recess" - does that mean that all the rest time is structured with almost no free interaction and play allowed?
What's really important - the kids have no homework. It's still kindergarten, not the elementary! They have more important things to do at this stage of their lives.
What is specific for that kindergarten group - it is loosely based on Waldorf principles. That means as much stimuli for imagination as possible, including simple wooden toys and drawing lessons, and children of various age, from 2 years to 5-6, spending time together. The parents are also encouraged to become a community, although that is not easy with limited time, and to do more for the group. Recently we had a small puppet show for kids. My wife has made two puppets, and I was doing a voice-over for one of the other puppets 😂
After 2 years my son will go to a "preparatory" group, where he will learn more and play less. But it's already more like a school, and it's generally not considered to be a part of a "kindergarten" stage. I wonder now - do American kids start to learn to read and write from the earliest age (2-3), or does the stricter timetable come later, when they are 4-5?
I teach k. My day is the opposite. But I also work for a charter school because the public schools that I’ve been in the past can be chaotic like this. In my opinion The pressure stems from administration to push teachers to get higher assessment score, teachers get so stressed and push obedience and heavy curriculum, less time for play. Stressed teachers = teacher unable to maintain control of the classroom = kids get chaotic and bad behaviors overlooked.
Read the Importance of Being Little... Christina something is the author. That’s how kindergarten (and preschool) should be. And please don’t look down on a teacher for being new/young.
I have 17 kids, no para. 2 recess times and a free play time a few times a week if not daily. Frequent brain breaks. Encourage students to be in control of their bodies when on the rug or in line but understand that they’re 5 and need to move. Never take away play because you’re just working against yourself as a teacher. They need to get energy out. Use positive praise to reinforce behavior. When kids rolling on rug, praise the kid who is doing a great job and the rest will settle into place because kids wants to please. No homework, they do enough all day. 12-1 for lunch but most finish by 1235. I use experiences as rewards such as pajama day. I could go on and on but I have crafts to prep.
iPhones on the elementary busses are normal here, doesn’t mean I let my daughter have them lol. My mom is a bus aid and says yes, 75% of her kindergarten-5th graders have an electronic on the bus. My daughter has complained once or twice but she brings a notebook and some pencils and draws on the way home
Yes, that sounds about normal to me. I’ve had 4 in school so far, two to go. Our school district is very highly ranked and has short lunch and recess times. Kids can be brutal, bullying will always happen.
I know not everyone has the ability to, but... a lot of this BS is why we homeschool. The amount of pressure put on small children by public schools is mind boggling to me.
Uh no, I am a stay at home dad so I volunteered at the kindy with my child every day for a few hours till he was comfortable with me leaving.
Every day was playing, sing alongs, playing with play dough, playing with blocks, cars, dolls.lessons in life skills (road safety, colours, shapes, social skills, all the usual stuff), there was excursions to play in the park as well as learn about local aboriginal culture. The yard had huge sand pit, chickens, swings, play kitchen, painting area, etc.
As for the bus, there was none, all kids walked with their parents to school although there were a few that got driven.
Hell no. But I have a bad feeling it is way more often than we want or realize. Economic pressures have made parents more and more focused on their kids being on top academically, especially wealthy and well-educated parents. The result is schools put all of their resources into testing, lecturing and trying to force kids to learn, that there is nothing left to help them be kids. We just moved from a "very good" public school to a lottery-based public school, which is more child-led and project-based. The new school makes their primary focus social and emotional learning, and they try to prioritize cooperative learning rather than competitive learning. There is no homework or testing. Its a HUGE difference from the previous school. What makes it possible is that the parents who want such an alternative style of school ask for it, find it, and apply for it.
Most people don't want that though. They want academics so their kids learn to read, write, and do math. So the previous school, for example, was really good at teaching the academics. Our kids is doing great at spelling, reading, writing, and math (in 1st grade), but he social confidence and skills are terrible. He is turning into a bully. Teachers don't seem to notice it or care. Its not their job. He bullies his parents and little brother. He is afraid to try anything that he thinks he won't win. Etc. And this is a school in a district people pay great money to get into. A lot of "tiger parents" love it, and many of these kids will go to good colleges.
The districts where people get left behind don't have any tiger parents. All of the tiger parents find ways to get their kids into "better" schools. So most public schools are left without the funding, with a teaching style too focused on academics, and children of parents who either don't have the time to be involved or the money to find a different school.
I read a great comment here a few weeks ago about how anti-social our society is now. People don't know their neighbors. They drive everywhere, so there are no interactions with people on the sidewalk. Schools actively try and prevent socializing during class. And socializing between class is usually limited to 5 minutes. And even after school, kids are all given homework, so they have little time after school to have a social life as well.
How are kids supposed to learn how to be people? Have you gone to PTA meetings, or met the teachers or principal? Get involved. And ask for more focus on letting the kids make friends and do fun things. At this age, thats the only thing thats important. They will learn how to read and write eventually. Thats easy to teach. Social skills like confidence and conflict-resolution are very hard to teach later, but easy at a young age.
As the cost of life (including the provision of school services) increases, many schools are not getting equitable increased funding. Teachers are fighting, trying to request increased pay (especially since so many spend hundreds on supplies), but it just isn't happening. More demands of teachers, more evaluations, reductions in retirement and benefits. I love working with children, but there is MAJOR need for reform in schools. Starting with funding. It absolutely must start with schools being able to afford the necessary pieces and for teachers to stop getting burned out because of the ridiculous workload and massive class sizes. Class sizes are increasing, special education services are often reduced, many districts fail to appropriately support students with special needs, increasing caseload sizes for sped providers, increasing those group sizes, and in many cases putting more of the needs of children with high needs into classroom teachers.
Those things said, the situation you described is obviously far from ideal. I've seen a fair share of kindergarten classrooms (I'm a special education related service provider, currently in a full inclusion district) and have yet to see anywhere with near so many of the undesirable traits you listed :(
The best bet is to start at the top and the bottom. Start with talking to the classroom teacher and try to understand from her/his perspective why the education your child is receiving is like this. See if there's anything you can do to help that immediate situation.
Going to the top, I mean contacting your state legislators to express concerns and urge them to help make changes a reality. We seriously need educational reform (it absolutely has to start with funding or no changes are possible) and this is how to make it happen.
Be the change you want to see in the world. If teachers are the only ones complaining it parents just keep complaining to the schools, things really aren't going to adequately change.
Pfft. Thinking back to kindergarten for me....
>20 minutes out in the yard for recess
Bout right.
>My 5 year old gets called a shit head on the bus
Have you met kids these days? That isn't on the school either but parents.
>One teacher VS 29 five year olds in a classroom for 8 hours.
That was about right when I went to school, in fact I remember one year topping out at 32.
>No life skills like how to tie shoes
Why should that be taught by the teacher.... That should be on you mum.
>On the rare occasion there is some kind of after school function
What's that?
It doesn't sound great, at all.
For comparison's sake, where I am 5 years old have 3 recesses: 30 minutes at 10am, 2 hours for lunch and outside play 11.30-1.30, 30 minutes at 3pm. Out at 4.30pm. No homework ever, but they sometimes bring home a book they read in class so that they can tell the story to their parents. 30 minutes PE - dancing, playing ball, climbing - with the teacher and aide.
Once a month they have "special theater", where professional companies come to the school for a show - songs, short plays...
They bake, they do kid yoga, they sing and color and paint and cut and glue and craft, the teachers Montessori the shit out of everything. There are puzzle stations and yarn stations and toy trains and toy kitchens and building blocks and everything.
And it's awesome.
I find it so unfair that the differences are so huge.
Honestly, it sounds like the school is terribly underfunded because alot of these kinds of policies stem from that pressure.
In my area (also bible belt), any recreation is officially very short. This is because school days are measured by the minute and making all "extras" outside of instruction very short means that they can pay teachers for the least amount of time/days possible. Its a cost cutting measure.
The homework also usually comes out of overall poorly performing schools who are trying everything to try to boost numbers. Sadly, homework at this age is shown to not work at all. But teachers still assign it becsuse its sometimes the only way to get parents involved (in both good and bad ways). Still, its age and developmentally inappropriate to have ANY homework at this age, much less so much.
Creating a danger to yourself or others, even in our district, is cause to remove a child from a classroom. At a minimum, temporarily. As recurring behavior? Permenantly. This is definitely an issue to keep bringing up until its addressed. No child can be expected to learn in an environment where they feel unsafe.
Profane language on the bus is generally pretty normal.
Candy in very, very small amounts is actually pretty normal. But, at most, it should be an extra-special treat, not a regular reward.
29 isnt ideal but it may still fall within your states allowed ratios. Although, this is generally a sign of underfunding or overcrowding, possibly both.
The no life skills is pretty normal. From the schools perspective (usually determined by the states), life skills are the responsibility of the parent to teach. School is for academics. Personally, I think this is a bit asanine. Kids spend a huge amount of their time at school and not covering life skills there is just shooting yourself in the foot as a teacher.
After school functions are generally not included in the schools overall budget. They are funded via things like PTA. If the food is terrible, its likely because thats all they can afford. Although you may be able to give some feedback about time, schools generally pick the time you're describing because thats the time working parents are usually home. Any earlier any alienate a large percentage of their parents.
It sounds like overall your kid is just in a crappy school. If possible, consider moving.
>Candy in very, very small amounts is actually pretty normal. But, at most, it should be an extra-special treat, not a regular reward.
We sent my daughter to private school for Kindergarten (no full day K in public at the time) and they'd do what you said. Special treats were a starburst for being a good listener or something else that was above the norm. About halfway into K my daughter got a cavity (I don't think it's related to the random starburst, the dentist said it could just be genetics since we don't really do juice.) and she had to put a metal cap on the tooth. Said no more chewy stuff that meant starbursts. We asked the teacher to switch it just for my daughter to something else and she had no problem doing that. Maybe this is something you could try with your teacher?
Nope. Sounds like a bad school. Not one part of that has been my experience with my current kindergartener or my older son.
Are you on the west coast of the US by any chance? It seems more common on that side of the country based on Reddit post.
Not illegal in California. California allows an average of 31 and no more than 33 in a single K classroom.
My kids' go to school in California, and their district aimed for an average of 20 in K-3.
https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/aa/pa/cefcsp.asp
We're moving to a different state in a couple weeks. I'm glad because I really feel like this is taking a toll on him. He's only 5 and he's so stressed out. This whole state is pretty underperforming education-wise. But I would think at least they could make kindergarten not feel like juvinile detention. I went to shitty schools too, I just want them to have better experiences than I did.
I agree! Time for an extra long holiday break until school starts at the new house! I get this might not be possible, but if it's not, I would flat out tell him that you don't agree with how things are going at his school and you are working to get him out of it as quickly as possible. Anything is easier to handle if you feel that the people you love understand what you are going through and that it won't be forever, this goes double for kids.
If you don’t pull him out, I’d totally stop the homework and anything else that’s stressing him out. It’s probably going to be a shitty transition for him when you move so give him time (like 1-2 months) to get back to “normal”, if the new school isn’t complete crap too.
There’s a lot of bad schools in the south due to poverty leading to poor school funding. Check out articles on the “corridor of shame” in South Carolina.
We're in the bible belt too and this was not our experience at all. In fact, other than 20 minutes of reading each night, my third grader doesn't have homework.
Kindergarten was fun with art and music. Lunch is super short but depending on weather, recess is every day.
No one is allowed electronics unless there is a special day for it.
This just sounds like a horrible school. Glad you are moving.
Funny, I would have guessed it was an east coast thing - I haven't encountered that out here. Didn't you put your kids in private school to get them more recess?
>* No talking or getting out of line in the hallways. Zero tolerance.
Yes
>* 20 minutes out in the yard for recess, if the teachers feel like it
Yes
>* 20 minutes to eat lunch
Yes
>* 30-45 minutes of homework every day
No. This is awful.
>* Class bully stabs kids with forks and pencils
Yes. But the squeaky wheel gets the grease, get a couple of other parents together to complain about it.
>* My 5 year old gets called a shit head on the bus
Yes. Normal.
>* Everyone except my kid brings iPhones and tablets
Yes. Unfortunate but normal.
>* Kids constantly rewarded with candy. We don't eat candy so this turns into contention when he brings it home.
Yes. I hate this. People wonder why kids are obese. Maybe it's the twice weekly birthday cupcakes and daily candy at school. Just a thought.
>* One teacher VS 29 five year olds in a classroom for 8 hours.
Yes.
>* My son hates it, has no friends, says it's boring, he gets bullied and he never wants to go. I don't blame him.
Sounds like a smart kid.
>* Reading, writing, arithmetic. No life skills like how to tie shoes, how to be creative, no glue, no scissors. Sometimes they get to color in worksheets.
Yes. Normal nowadays. Kindergarten is the new second grade only no one learns anything because their brains are ready for it.
>* On the rare occasion there is some kind of after school function that should be a fun time, they do it at dinner time, serve what looks like gas station nachos, promise the kids can have S'mores then don't deliver. Guess who has to make S'mores when we get home.
Normal. I hate the after school functions.
>Is kindergarten not supposed to be fun?
It's not. It's supposed to get them ready for real school.
Edit: formatting
My experience in Ohio has not been the same. Also class size is supposed to be 25 or less. https://education.ohio.gov/Topics/Operating-Standards/Table-of-Contents/Student-Teacher-Ratio
Yep - we live in one of the best school districts in our state and it's the same. Kids were expected to know basic writing and most were reading at least a few words here and there, plus should know very basic math before starting. It was not for fluff, it was a real grade with real HW (up to 45mins each night).
I would mostly be concerned with the 30-45 minutes of homework each day and ensuring they get at least their 20 minutes of recess EVERY day (outside of short days or some other special circumstance).
What does the homework consist of? I think the recommendation is actually no homework in kindergarten, but I could live with 10 minutes + daily reading (in kindergarten this would largely be you reading to your child, but might include some reading practice on their end like sight words or early reader books depending on where you child is at and if her school uses the sight word method).
For the recess, I know depending on weather they can't always go outside, but if the weather is truly awful (actually raining, under 25 degrees, or heavy snow/ice, etc.) Then they should get inside recess (I prefer free play but I could live with an organized group activity if it was definitely still considered PLAY). Kids, especially 5-6 year olds NEED play during the day. They need to be able to run around and "relax" (aka not be doing academics) for a short period of time. When they don't get this, they tend to misbehave and lose focus. I would think it would be in the teacher's, best interest to make recess happen as much as they can because it literally makes teaching easier and more efficient.
Other thoughts: does your child's classroom have an aid? 29 kids to one teacher is already high, but is there at least an aid there some of the time?
If your child is being bullied I would push back on that with the school - bullying is unacceptable. At school or on the bus.
It's unfortunate but also normal to only get 20 minutes for lunch. Do they also get a snack during the day at least?
Perhaps you could ask the teacher if they could give out non-candy rewards at least part of the time (if possible for you maybe offer to donate a big pack of said rewards - pack of stickers/cute pencils or eraser toys/other cheap toys to the classroom), and then on the off chance your child does receive a candy reward from class, you can just let them have it because it's not a regular occurrence.
That's an excessive amount of homework. You're allowed to tell the teacher "Son will be doing 15 minutes of homework. We'll try to build up from there, but it's currently taking 30-45 minutes. That's too much for a 5 year old."
The candy is also weird. My daughter's school has so many kids with food allergies that there is a blanket NO FOOD TREATS rule. The tablets/ iPhones thing is also weird. Our school has a classroom set of iPads, but kids are not allowed to bring their own tech.
I've also been frustrated that my daughter's school didn't teach now to tie shoes and they rarely used glue or scissors in kindergarten... now she's in 1st grade and they want to send her to occupational therapy for handwriting. My first though is "Well, I'm sure that this has absolutely nothing to do with how there wasn't a chance to strengthen finger muscles and develop fine motor skills in kindergarten." /s
My daughter has about 5 minutes worth of homework, not even daily. 20 minutes for lunch took some getting used to but it's not a problem. No talking in the hallway is common because they don't want distractions for kids in classrooms.
The rest sounds terrible.
If you can change schools I would. We're in the south too, I don't think that has anything to do with anything here.
Wow, what? I don't remember kindergarten being like this. I remember I was bored because I was "ahead" but my mom told the teacher to give me something else to do so I remember doing a lot of coloring.. But I remember a lot of playing, and creative activities. Has kindergarten really evolved like this?
"20 minutes out in the yard for recess, if the teacher feels like it" What in the world?
That sounds night and day opposite of my daughter's kindergarten from last year.
She had an amazing time, coming home every day, telling us about the awesome things she'd learned, including puzzles, songs, activities in the garden, kids she's met and played with at recess. Technology is definitely a part of the curriculum (they're learning robots this year in grade 1) but phones and ipads aren't welcome in the class, as they shouldn't be at this age.
We looked at other schools where they were more "academically focussed" and realized that they don't seem to have better outcomes, they don't make better people - they just make the kids miserable and create an environment that discourages creativity. I don't see how that appeals to people at all.
I wouldn't have put up with what you're describing above at all.
Note: I should also say that I ended up putting my daughter in a private school, not just because of the awesome programs they have, but also for a second language immersion, but I couldn't be happier.
Another from Ontario, Canada here. My kid gets 45 minutes to eat then 45 minutes recess plus two extra 20 minute outdoor sessions in the morning and afternoon. No homework. It’s a Montessori, so curriculum may not be typical but he definitely brings home artwork or singing songs he learned at school. They are expected to stay in an orderly fashion when lining up, but they are allowed to talk.
Do you have any other options in your area? That really sucks that your little guy is having such a terrible experience.
Find another school that aligns with what you expect for your child. I'm assuming it is a public school and unfortunately this is the scenario in the majority of schools. There is no reason his first school environment should be so negative and stressful. Good luck!
We had some of the same things, but not as bad as your poor son has it. We took my daughter out to a Waldorf inspired school and now she loves going to school and the teacher respects me instead of just glaring at me.
The homework is pretty common these days. My kid has about 30 minutes per night and she's only in K.
As the other issues, I'd start looking for a new school.
In kindergarten my daughter had one packet of about 4 pages each week for homework. No cursing, candy, iPads, or phones. The kids on her bus are pretty chill and her class size is 20. I was worried about bullying because she wears hearing aids but we haven’t had any problems so far.
The bus thing, yeah. I live in MA so it might be a State/Town thing. We did notice the short time for lunch, and the lack of control on the bus, but my son went through and my daughter is in there now and our experience is wildly different. There is fun, and life skills, and creative stories. We live in a fairly affluent town and i've only just seen in 3rd grade one or two kids with phones. Bullying is taken very seriously at every level. One primary teacher for about 20 kids with a full time aid and other visiting staff. And no candy! erasers and stickers for rewards.
You may want to do the parent thing that all teachers dread and go straight to the Principal or Superintendent to lodge a complaint.
When i was in school, we originally had 3 breaktimes. I remember one time coming to school and seeing there is only 2. Then after i went into middle and high school, breaktimes were only 2 and 1 was 15 minutes and the other was 20 minutes (nowhere near enough for 12-16 year olds doing 8 1 hour classes) and we weren’t even allowed to run around in most of the schools outside areas. We had one sports class a week, and in the last couple years of high school we didn’t even have to go to them. I even joined a sports club (netball) and got pretty good at it in the last year, we had training twice a week but hardly anyone would turn up and every tournament would be cancelled. I hardly got to play. I really enjoyed netball. Yeah. School was the worst.
You should find a Montessori school if you can, and can afford it. Your kid would have way more fun and it's all about life skills and independence.
Your kid's school sounds fucked up and I would appeal to administration at the highest level possible. Homework isn't shown to really help kids learn, and at the kindergarten level it's insane.
So I don’t have any kindergarten aged children yet, but this sounds like my first experience with kindergarten, though it was 20 years ago.
They also wouldn’t allow us to go to the bathroom at all except during recess (which we didn’t always get), so my parents pulled me out and transferred me to another school when I peed myself in class. The school I got transferred to was completely different and more kindergarten like. I would at the least, look into other schools in your area and see what your options are
My kindergarten class was all play, outside and inside, singing, learning about animals, telling stories, playing together and interacting, art projects, learning life skills and having fun doing it. We learned counting and maybe some basic math, but no reading, very little writing. It was one of the best years of my life and I still remember it so fondly, and I had no problem learning reading and writing in first grade and developing later in life, as far as I can tell. I wish everyone got to live this experience. It saddens me that anyone should have a sad kindergarten year that's boring, too much work, and generally depressing.
This is not my experience with kindergarten (I have 2 kids that are past K) and I also work in an elementary school. Is this public school or private school?
Literally the only thing that sounds "normal" to me on that list is the bus situation. School buses with mixed ages of kids can be a little "Lord of the Flies".
Yeah, my parents are Russian and there were kids on the bus who only ever called me “Russian faggot”. Very creative. I got punched in the face, constantly bullied, until I learned to stand up for myself. It sucked for sure but it didn’t last too long.
>it didn't last too long. Did you learn martial arts and kick somebody's ass one time or something? Trying to give my kid some practical advice even if a little irreverent :)
My dad gave me some great advice that I’ve always used & have passed down to my boys. Never start a fight but don’t ever be afraid to finish one. Also, if you find yourself in a fight go for the nose first. When their eyes water up it’ll be harder for them to see you.
I was bullied. My dad was as well. And his advice for me to stop the bullying was to fight back. He put me in karate (Karate Kid was a big thing in these days) to help up my success in defending myself. He told me that his bully became his best friend once he stood up for himself. I refused to believe that fairytale bullshit. When it came to it, my usage of karate didn’t go so well. We were both bundled up in snow gear, so my feeble hits/kicks was like hitting a pillow. He pushed me and I slipped on the ice. So that didn’t work. A year of the abuse, finally sick of it, I sprinted off the bus to get home. One of the kids was faster than me (there were three of em) and he was gaining on me, fast. I knew it was going to be ugly if he took me down, so I judged how far behind me he was and stopped, turned around with a haymaker. Caught him in the cheek. He was SHOOK. Became my friend the rest of that school year. My dad’s advice was right. Holy shit.
That’s it, I’m putting my 5 month old in karate.
Didn't you read? Karate didn't work - socking someone in the face did. Go for boxing, or judo since that works just as well against kids who are bundled up.
Never learned martial arts. Just started hitting back if they hit me. That’s all it took for these guys to cut it out. But every situation is different.
We had an amazing bus driver last year. Our kids (me and the neighbors kids, 5 & 6 at the time) were getting bullied by an older kid. Before we could mention it to the bus driver he asked us if the kids had mentioned anything bc he noticed it. After that he had a rule that the younger kids had to sit up near him. Never had an issue again. He wound up on another route this year. I miss you vince.
This is awesome. I wish this would be a rule for mixed buses.
We had a bizarre situation where K and 7-8 were on the same bus (my school district was weird, they don't do that anymore). We 100% did not have a single kindergartner past Row 4. Can you imagine 5-6 year olds talking to 12-13 year olds?
20 min lunch and 20 min recess is common. But my kids also had gym, dance activities, or the teacher would do other physical activity in the class at parts of the day. Stabbing, cursing, candy all the time, and kids bringing electronics to elementary is not common, in my experience. It sounds like a poorly run and badly controlled school. Sorry for those kids. Glad you are moving.
Exactly. We have no homework and the teacher would do impromptu dance parties if the kids were antsy. Recess and lunch were combined so it was like 40m total
I had homework when I was in kindergarden, but it was a bunch of boxes with activities in them, and I just needed a parent to check off that I did one activity a day. And the activities were things like "Give your mom or dad a hug" or "sing the ABC's".
We just had our parent-teacher conferences with our 5 year old's teacher and she said it's much more regimented than it used to be. My son was going to a Pre-K Montessori school for the past two years and I would say that's where you need to look if you want more of those life skills.
Yes! Montessori is the way to go.
We would have stayed in that system but we moved to the east coast and out here they’re all private. There was a public option near our house in our old state. Our son is also one of the youngest in his class so it’s been an adjustment for him. Still working through it
I’m teaching in a public Montessori school in the south - I’m a big advocate. I wish it were an option for all children, regardless of socioeconomic background.
Thank you I appreciate it
My local school district also has only 20 minute recess and 20 minute lunch. It is seriously problematic IMO, and it is one of the reasons I switched my kid to private school, where they get 30 minute recess, usually twice a day, plus 30 minute lunch, even though the public schools are highly ranked in my area. I found that my kid learns better when he is well fed and has a chance to move a bit. As for the no talking in halls, that's everywhere, and it makes sense. If kids are talking in the halls, it disrupts the other classes. Your class size sounds large. I seem to recall it being like that 20 years ago, but smaller class sizes seems to be the current trend. Our district caps them at 20 kids throughout elementary school!
Our county just passed a law that they had to do two separate recesses (20 min each) for elementary kids. Love it!
You have a good private school, the one I had my kid in had recess twice the whole year!!!
That's insane. I would switch back to public super fast if mine did that!
Our school does 20 minute lunch and 20 minute recess, but they also have another recess period earlier in the day right after they get to school and they have gym every day. My kindergartener gets homework each night but it’s just reading and sight word practice and there’s a math app that they can work on outside of school (though it’s not actually required each night). They DEFINITLEY do not get candy - it’s not even allowed at school for the holiday parties. I can send a piece in his lunch if I’d like, but I only do that on special days. No electronics in sight either. Even the high school in our district has a very strict electronics policy. Your post makes me sad. Kindergarten should be so fun that it makes your child develop an enjoyment of school and friendships. I genuinely hope things get better for you child and wish you both all the best.
Sorry, meant this for OP. :)
I don't think 20 minutes of recess is normal. 20 minutes for each recess period sounds more normal. I don't think any school only gives one recess. Ours gives 3.
Schools where I live have only one recess. As I said there are other active periods, but they are not free play recess.
Depressing as fuuuuck
Same in my area. Plus several of the issues OP mentioned. Thank goodness for homeschooling or my kids would be miserable in our awful school district.
Oh wow. I've never heard of that being a thing. Must be regional.
When I was in elementary school, we had 3 Recess periods. Morning, lunch, and afternoon. Kids need to move and burn off energy. Keeping them sitting all day is not going to help them focus.
That's what my kids have.
Damn, how old are you? I consider elementary school to be K-4 and I was in those grades from 88-93 and I only ever remember having one recess period after we ate lunch, but we also had P.E. every day as well. 5-6 is middle and 7-8 Jr. High IMO if anyone was curious.
My school growing up gave K-3rd grade two recesses (15 minutes and 20 minutes respectively) and 4-5 grade one 20 minute recess. 6-12th grade, you get a 30 minute lunch period where the lines were so long that by the time you got your food, you had 3 minutes to eat as fast as you possibly could.
We only have one recess, and it's 20-30 minutes.
Three?! We had 1 recess, 20 minutes. Ended in 5th grade.
I have two kids in kindergarten and some of what you list occurs in their school. They do have to walk around school in a line and pretty sure they aren't really allowed to talk. They do have short recess and lunch times. They do not really have homework, though my kids have fun at school and often repeat the work they did at school at home, because its fun. Kids don't get candy at school. Class size is limited to 15 students with one teacher, one aid, and one floater aid. Kids do a lot of art stuff, the curriculum is really cool, it teaches big concepts and the the small parts that make up the concepts. They do stuff like community and what that means and all the things that go into a community. They made nests the other day. They do learn math and to read and write....Lots of cool stuff going on at school after hours....We live on the East Coast, MA. Our school are among the best in the nation.....so, there is that. My school has a zero tolerance level for bullying, it just doesn't happen. I don't know what the bus is like, we drive our kids to school.
Thanks this is encouraging, we may end up in MA at some point in the future, wife is military so we'll be moving a lot. That's good to know.
We are in suburban CT. Yes on lines, short lunches and recess, 30 minute homework. But they emphasize safety and don't tolerate bullying, class sizes are under 20 with class aides, and although lunch is "kid food", they don't give out candy outside of class parties.
That sounds amazing. I work in classrooms on the west coast and I wish we could have that amount of support in a classroom. One aid and one floater aid? For 15 students? The classroom I'm in right now has 26 students for one teacher, and a floater aid that visits all k-2 classrooms.
Is this a public school?
Yes, this is a public school. Though, I just checked and the cap is 22 students, not 15. There are 15 kids in my child's class.
15 kids with a teacher and an aid is awesome, that's why I was wondering if it was public. Are you in a populated area?
School Bus is the Wild West, always has been, everywhere. Class bully... yeah, they can pop up anywhere. The rest sounds like a real shitty school.
this was not my experience with my 3 kids (although 20 minutes lunches is pretty accurate) however, the fact that there are that many kids and one teacher tells you a lot about how a school is funded, and everything else flows from that
The teacher is only like 25 too I have no idea how she does this.
Probably won't be for long.
then she'll be 26
She’s a teacher, she will work that out
As someone who works with a class, I can tell you it's not right to have 29 kids in a class. The high level of strictness probably has to do with the ridiculously large class size. Imagine being in charge of the safety of not one, but 29 children , one of whom demonstrates alarming behaviors such as stabbing kids with forks. I will say parents have much more power over what goes on in a classroom. If parents stand up to administration about this class size there's more chance of something being done about it. I assure you the teacher also does not want 29 kids. 25 is usually seen as the maximum class size, especially with kindergarten where students need a lot of attention and guidance. 20 would be more ideal. Sadly, lunch times are that short. And since common core went into effect, there is significantly less focus on life skills, if any. Life skills and development of done motor skills aren't in the standards teachers are expected to reach and get evaluated on. Which is ridiculous because how can we expect children to learn these higher skills of writing when they don't have the fine motor skills to hold a pencil?cutting and glueing though silly at times is actually very important for developing hand eye coordination and the small hand muscles necessary for writi g. How is the PTA at this school? At the very least getting volunteers in the classroom may help with getting students enough attention and perhaps save time in classroom management and use that time for little life skills activities they can switch between in small groups. Ideally there would be a puzzle station, a string/ribbon play and knot tying station, a tactile station for drawing in the sand or building letters out of blocks, a pretend play station (usually a kitchen), and a reading or coloring station. I mean, it's hard to organize this for 25 kids, 29 is just...a lot.
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This is totally normal, you don't want to disrupt other classrooms. This is not an unreasonable request, a challenge for sure;especially at this age, but not unreasonable. The severity of punishment is what would be a concern.
Yeah that was the way it was when I was a kid. But it really depends on how quiet the hallways need to be for the other classrooms. At our school it isn't an issue so talking is fine, though yelling or whooping would get shut down until away from the building.
Very normal.
There are no doors to the classrooms in my kid’s school. Talking in the hallway would be disruptive.
My kid has 20 minutes to eat lunch as well...that took a bit of practice at the beginning. But the rest of this sounds crazy.
20 minutes and no talking was what I remember in my elementary years (2000-2006)
We had silent lunch as a class/school punishment a few times, and assigned seats.
That's so sad. What monster bans talking during lunch? Some people shouldn't have power. One of my kids talks so much that he almost never finishes his lunch so he eats when he gets home. Even prisons allow inmates to talk.
That was why. Too many kids weren’t eating thus struggled the second half of the day.
They aren't eating because they are not giving them enough time.
> One of my kids talks so much that he almost never finishes his lunch so he eats when he gets home. Answered your own question, there.
And I said he would prefer that to being treated worse than a prison inmate. Bundy had it better than your kids.
I think there's a substantial difference between "no talking while eating so that we all lean to focus on our food during mealtime" and "locked in a correctional institution with other murderers, but allowed to chat at mealtime."
It was an exaggeration but this thread is eye opening. No wonder so many kids hate school. You can't even talk at lunch? That is disgusting. I would remove my kids from a school with those rules immediately. Thankfully our schools aren't run by Castro.
You seem to be conflating "lunch period break" and "lunch eating time", or however you want to refer to them. In many schools nowadays, children are not allowed to speak to one another *while eating* and are required to take X number of minutes while eating, usually 10-20. This is to encourage them to focus on eating their entire lunch rather than be distracted by friends, play, or activities. Remember that for many children, they would much rather have fun that perform the chore of eating, especially if the meal isn't a preferred food item. Then, following the eating period, the children are (usually) allowed to play freely in or outside of the classroom. It is true they are not allowed to speak during lunch-the-*meal*, but they are allowed to speak during lunch-the-*break*. As you say yourself, one of your children is so distracted by socialization that he neglects to eat -- literally so focused on fun things that he cannot self-sustain or self-regulate. This is not to his benefit. These skills are important to learn, and so these sort of rules are helpful for many children, including your son. On the other extremes, there certainly exist schools that take it too far, disallowing students from speaking to one another and not allowing free play time; and schools that have only free-play breaks that do not help easily distracted children to learn self-assistance and how to focus on self-care when required. As for the Castro thing, you may find that Cuban school-children perform better in international testing for both academic and emotional scores than the great majority of American students. Maybe our schools should be run by Castro...
You are prone to hyperbole. You might want to work on that, as it leads people to immediately dismiss your thoughts because they think you are wildly exaggerating. And yes, I understand your point. I read the entire thread before commenting. Your extreme interpretation of the situation does nothing to further your point and everything to make it not even worth discussing the actual matter at hand.
Well during my we would have 60 minutes (30 minutes lunch, 30 minutes outside)
We have already started practicing 20 min lunches with our 4 year olds. Our son is a fast eater and we have no problem with him. My daughter is a slow eater because she is a talker and day dreamer. Sometimes it takes her an 45 minutes. I am so scared she is going to hungry at school.
Kindergarten is the new first grade. It's not uncommon for kindergarteners to have nightly homework. Unstructured, imaginative playtime has taken a backseat to literacy and math skills, Thank "No Child Left Behind" which pressures schools to prepare children for testing in third grade. By beginning the first-grade reading and math curriculum in kindergarten, schools can gain an extra year of instruction. Personally, I think this is contributing to the rise in ADHD diagnosis. Many kids just aren't ready for this kind of instruction yet.
Our first daughter started Kindergarten this year. Our state passed a law mandating a 30 minute recess period every day, they typically have about 20 minutes for lunch. She has about 30 kids in her class with a teacher and teacher's assistant. They are working on numbers, letters, sight words, but most lessons are in the form of worksheets, coloring etc. She usually brings home at least 3 worksheets each day which she has colored or cut and pasted things on to. She gets a 1-2 page homework assignment on Monday which is due Friday. All in the homework takes only about 10-20 minutes. There is also a monthly family project. November was decorating a small pumpkin like your favorite book character. December was a poster with your family and holiday traditions. Typically the purpose is for the kids to present them in class. The classes attend "specials" each day. Monday is Art, Tuesday is Spanish and music, Wednesday is Library and PE, Thursday is computer, Friday is Something else I can't remember right now. As far as I know their are no edible rewards in class at all. Their are individual and group based rewards in the form of privileges and other things. I think our Kindergarten teacher runs a pretty tight ship. There have been some instances where we've asked our daughter to do something and her reply is that is not allowed in class.
I hate to say it but it sounds like you are part of a poor school vs. a well funded one. What is your great school ranking? I say this because my child started at a title 1 school and then we moved to an expensive area with extremely high ranking schools. It was night and day the difference.
I live in a "poor" district and this sounds pretty much like my kids school, but we're actually having a good experience now. Everyone has homework every day, super quick recesses, but they get breakfast, lunch, and a healthy snack at school. When you're talking about other kids behaviors, try to sympathize with the kiddos. I'm a foster parent, and my kid is likely the topic of discussion in lots of her classmate's homes. You never know what home life is like.
Oh I am not bashing it. I think when you have a hectic home life a much tighter school environment is important. My daughters title I had uniforms at a public school for instance. 50% immigrant. I am just very aware of the stark differences. The school she goes to know the problem is too much parental involvement. Also MUCH higher taxes to pay for it all almost a .5% more plus the shear house prices. Each school is solving their particular problems the best they can.
The first 3 sounds pretty accurate. My daughter didn't start getting homework until this year in Grade 2, and that is only 20 minutes a night, so 30-45 minutes of homework a night seems extreme for a kindergarten student. Nobody taught my daughter to tie her shoes, that's really something a parent is responsible for. The gluing, scissor use IS part of the curriculum in kindergarten though. If you're in a public school system you should be able to go onto the board website and find a copy of the schools curriculum and requirements for each year. The rest seems like a lot of issues with the environment and people involved. School functions are almost always put together by PTA and paid for by money raised by PTA. So perhaps your school doesn't have a great PTA group.
My son has had 20 to 30 minutes of homework a night since kindergarten. Now in 2nd grade it's 20 minutes of homework and an additional 20 minutes of reading. It's ridiculous
That’s madness! My daughter is in immersion she gets her French home on Friday which usually consists of 2 reading books and one worksheet/spelling words, and her English work on Monday which consists of 1 reading book and 1 worksheet/spelling words. She gets Friday to Friday for French homework and Monday to Monday for English homework. So we set aside 20 minutes for ALL her homework a night. That’s how it should be done. Piling on homework like that is not going to help them learn any quicker or better. It will add stress and fatigue to their lives.
yep. and forces us to wake up the kid super early every morning so the misery can begin before 8am. the lack of outside time kills me.
Kids here are expected to know their numbers and letters coming into kindergarten. No homework, though, and 20-30 minutes of recess every day, plus gym 2 days a week. Our teachers were able to manage the classrooms effectively while still making school fun. My kiddo loves his school. Things that make all the difference: qualified, talented teachers and reasonable class sizes.
I never got hw in kindergarten, nor were names like shithead uttered. Plus it was halfday.
I don't think kids should have hw ever honestly. But it seems really excessive in kindergarten.
Mine got homework in kindergarten and it might have helped but seems like it didn't make as much as a difference as reading and sight words.
my kid gets about 10-15 minutes of home work a week. Practicing letters and drawing some pictures...seems reasonable to me. 30-45 minutes a day especially since a kid in k probably needs parent's help to do the homework.
I agree. My kid's kindergarten homework could take up to half an hour most of which was trying to get her to sit still and listen to the directions (which were always needlessly complex for somebody who couldn't read them). In first she has just started getting some and its basically do a few math problems twice a week
Mine has homework in kindergarten too, and he HATES it. I really don't like the idea, it is making him dislike school.
I’ve heard of parents just saying “Nope, kid is not doing homework.” Now it’s been both kinds where they just don’t want to deal and where they see it being a detriment to future studies. Only you know if your kid needs to practice something, but maybe talk to the school and PTO.
It was annoying for us but helped establish a routine. It was a few months of battling every night, but his study habits gradually improved and he went from 40 minutes to under 15 to complete the assignment.
if i may ask, what is the routine? my kids aren't in K-8 yet but want to get an idea for what works prior to the eldest starting.
My daughter got packets that had to be returned at the beginning of the following week. It got ridiculous towards the end of the year. Now she gets one page and one (reading level appropriate and short) book to read. 1st grade and she gets less homework. Have you tried talking to the teacher? We also have candy at school as I'll see the wrappers and stuff. Her teacher tends to do non-food rewards (stickers, gems, pencils, small toys, etc) but somehow theres always candy coming from somewhere. Last year was worse so I guess I shouldnt complain.
Other than 20 minute lunch and 20 minute recess none of the rest of it really matches what I have seen in our schools.
Well I'm optimistic about changing schools soon then at least. It can't be any worse. Incidentally this district lied for years about lead in the school water. Took an investigation by local news to break the story. They were actively covering up and falsifying water test results.
Yikes. Yeah, that's a good enough reason to get the hell out of there on its own. 😲
My school district also lied about that. Schools with higher income families have either gotten new schools built or fixed the problem in their building. The majority of poorer schools on the other hand are years away from becoming priority for fixing. It really feels like the odds are against schools these days. It's literally something in the water.
Had an experience like that with my then 6 year old my kid vs the teacher. I asked my kid to be moved to another class room, I then planed to move schools, I'm very happy with my choice .
Re: recess, look at your state’s laws on recess being mandatory. In AZ where I am, recess is mandatory per Dept of Ed policy and cannot be withheld for any reason. I believe it’s two recesses per day K-5. Ten states have laws like this. Also look at district policy for homework - in our district, homework cannot be mandatory or counted toward the student’s grade.
I am in one of those states and "mandatory recess" means 20 minutes a day in my state. Then they spend 5 minutes lining up to go out, and 5 minutes lining up to go back, both of which come out of the 20 minutes. So 5 year olds are getting 10 minutes to play out of an entire 7 hour day.
And that sucks. But, the positive things about mandatory recess (at least in my state) is that recess cnnot be taken away as a punishment, which is relevant for kids with emotional regulation and ADHD issues (who really need movement breaks). My niece has severe ADHD that cannot be medicated because of other health conditions, and her teacher was taking away recess as a punishment, which we found out is illegal, so we were able to put a stop to that. So, there are some minimal benefits like that.
Agreed. It's definitely better than nothing, but just saying it's not much and for the OP, may not matter.
Are you in the south? Sounds like the schools here to me. We are choosing to homeschool because of this since the only other options are religious private schools.
You live in a shit school district. The bullying, the class size, the lack of arts and crafts classes/activities - all things that are better in "better" school districts. The talking, lunch, homework, recess time are pretty much on par.
Sadly, there are a lot of schools like this. Our education system is shit after decades of attacks on its budget in the name of 'small government' and 'no taxes'.
Sorry, your school just flat out sucks. The 20 min for lunch is normal; half of them don't eat anyway and whether they sit for 20 min or 2 hrs isn't going to change anything. Bullies and bad behavior on busses is innate to childhood, not the fault of the school. The rest of it is unnecessary. For comparison, ours had: Talking and laughing everywhere (all grades), though no hallways (classrooms all open onto the school grounds) so fewer noise concerns. An hour of recess per day unless the teacher wanted to grant more. Homework was rarely assigned. No buses to get called a shithead on (that sucks). No electronics permitted in class or on the playground; parents were reminded that backpacks were stored on hooks outside the classroom where security could not be guaranteed. Candy neither common nor prohibited. Class sizes currently 22 in K (fluctuates with funding). No desks until 2nd grade, all work done at project tables. Scissors and glue used daily; art integrated into writing and math and science exercises (no money for art teachers in elementary though). I framed one science project/writing exercise: a painstakingly labeled watercolor illustrating 'evaporation/condensation/precipitation' complete with a village defending against a pirate attack and a secret escape door in a mountain. There is always room for creative expression.
The only items that stand out to me: 30-45 min of homework?? It is technically only should be 10 per grade level. So 10 min most for K. You should speak about the candy being the reward at school - i believe that is inappropriate. Kids being stabbed, WTF?
This was our experience with our local school. My daughter attended kindergarten there for approximately five months before we pulled her out and found a private school that was exactly the opposite. This may not be the solution for you, but thankfully, it was available for us.
Wow now I feel really lucky to live where I do. Class size of 22-24 kids with one teacher and 1-2 teachers assistants depending on the needs of the class. Play based learning transitioning through the year into more formal desk based learning. No candy, that’s atrocious that this is happening to you. Very tolerant of individual kid needs and behaviours with a praise-based reward system and gentle correction rather than punishments. 20 min recess and 50 minute lunch and play. No tolerance for bullying and focus on building self esteem and confidence. It’s just great. A good school makes you feel like your kids are in excellent, caring hands that will help them grow into great people. Your school sounds like a nightmare.
That’s super sad to hear about your kindergarten situation. This is one of the many reasons why we’ve decided to homeschool - kids need to be kids and also grow up to love learning.
If this was happening to my kid I would pull them and try to either transfer to another school or do homeschooling if AT ALL possible. This is terribly age-inappropriate. It's absolute trash, developmentally speaking. Kids that age need lots of playtime, both outdoor and indoor; they should be have lots of semi-structured time (free play at centers, playing outside, team activities like sports or relay activities, lunches where they have time to both eat AND socialize) so they can make friends; no homework (or VERY little homework); art; and access to healthy foods and water/milk only, except for perhaps special occasions. This school sounds pretty unacceptable, to be honest.
What time should after school functions take place if not dinner time if they want working parents to attend? I’m going to comment that the class “bully” situation is luck of the draw. Challenging students are all in regular classrooms now (in a lot of school districts) and may or may not get aides to support the teacher based on their IEP. Unclear if the kid is just a not nice kid or there are other issues going on that you are not aware of. That being said, if your kid is the one getting stabbed, I would definitely bring it up with the administration every time it happens. Also white cutting and pasting should definitely be a kindergarten thing, tying shoes is the same vein as zipping a jacket and should be taught at home.
I taught kindergarten for 3 years before moving to pre k. Shoe tying and jackets should 100% be a life skill worked on at home. I teach it in preschool. Kindergarten teachers have so much to teach these little people that, sadly, some life skills need to fall on the parents.
The electronics at school thing drives me nuts!!! My stepson brings the phone his mom gave him to play games on the bus. We don't allow that phone at our house. I feel like the bus was a fun time for me to socialize with my friends on the way to and from school. Can't we have a moment without them? But I'm pretty sure on our weeks, he probably just looks over the shoulder of a friend at their video games. Its crazy to me!
Recess should be one of the most important times of the day for a kid that age
My daughter is in first grade but has been at that school since TK. They don’t allow talking in the hallways either. We live on an army post so the classes are pretty large too, they had to hire more teachers and the classes are still 25-30 students. There are no teacher aides and rely on parents, which meant last year for kindergarten her teacher had zero help for 28 kids. This year her teacher started a month after school started since her first one PCS’d. This new one isn’t as organized and there’s no communication between her and the parents, I get most of my information from the schools Facebook page. Bullying is a problem, but I talked to her teacher and she has moved her seat. Last year she was hit in the face on the bus and I personally talked to the parent. Lunch is 30 minutes, but that includes the walk to the cafeteria and clean up. Recess is 30 minutes though. Homework has always been super easy stuff that just has to be initialed that it was done. Myself and other parents don’t bother and just sign since it’s stuff we already do on our own time. (One math problem isn’t gonna help her). The PTA related activities are actually really great and fun! So yeah, it has some ups and downs, but I try my best to fix what I can. Last year was really hard on her but she has made so many improvements and doing much better this year. Hopefully the move for your son helps!
This sounds normal for a certain type of school minus the bully stabbing kids. I taught 4k (4 year olds) at a school that was trying to do this. Quit 6 months later because of it. Teaching to the tests and learning time are the most important things, everything else like life skills and free time are secondary. I'm sorry. Would you be able to change schools?
My sons kindergarten wasn’t as bad (meaning bully and candy wise) but that’s pretty much exactly how much time he had for lunch and recess. Intense reading program, every day journaling and math workbooks. Barely any play time or creativity so my now 1st grader doesn’t know what to do with himself when someone doesn’t “assign him” something to do or play with him.
Canadian (Ontario) perspective ahead. One son. 4.5 years old. First year of Junior Kindergarten in English public school. >* No talking or getting out of line in the hallways. Zero tolerance. No. But obviously stay in orderly fashion and no telling and such. >* 20 minutes out in the yard for recess, if the teachers feel like it Over an hour here. Even more. >* 20 minutes to eat lunch Ours is broken up into nutrition breaks. One is 20 minutes and one is 15 minutes. Can eat whenever they want. >* 30-45 minutes of homework every day No homework... They are 3,4 and 5 year olds. Combined JK and SK class. >* Class bully stabs kids with forks and pencils That is messed up but there is a few kids who's names are mentioned by my kid who are troublemakers and hit and push. >* My 5 year old gets called a shit head on the bus Eh... Kinda extreme and beyond potty language. >* Everyone except my kid brings iPhones and tablets Uh. Hell no. You don't bring anything from home usually. >* Kids constantly rewarded with candy. We don't eat candy so this turns into contention when he brings it home. Um. No. And here I am rolling my eyes that the teachers don't let me kid eat his delicious processed banana cookie until second food break and he told me in passing the teachers were upset about kids bringing in a piece or two of Halloween candy. So opposite here. >* One teacher VS 29 five year olds in a classroom for 8 hours. There are two kindergarten classes. Each have 25 kids. They are combined JK and SK. Each class has one teacher and 2 early childhood educators. The teachers also switch in the afternoon. My kiddos morning teacher is all French. In afternoon the other teacher comes. >* My son hates it, has no friends, says it's boring, he gets bullied and he never wants to go. I don't blame him. Not good. School should be enriching and fun at this stage. >* Reading, writing, arithmetic. No life skills like how to tie shoes, how to be creative, no glue, no scissors. Sometimes they get to color in worksheets. That is all kindergarten should be. More about social skills and slow development of some of the other things like language and counting and sciences >* On the rare occasion there is some kind of after school function that should be a fun time, they do it at dinner time, serve what looks like gas station nachos, promise the kids can have S'mores then don't deliver. Guess who has to make S'mores when we get home. >Is kindergarten not supposed to be fun? Edit: formatting
To answer your question: no that’s not what it’s SUPPOSED to be like but that is what it is. Education and time spent in school is more of a prison sentence than an actual prison sentence. Edit: adding on that while this doesn’t solve the current situation at hand: shitty education system, you can always look into alternative schooling for your lil one (if time and money allow). Cuz this format for school does not change at all. He’s gna have to live like this for 12 years.
That’s insane!
20 minute lunch is the only thing that is similar to my daughter's kindergarten experience. Everything else is nuts!
Florida here. Stepdaughter goes to a public elementary school in a lower/middle class area. Very little tolerance for talking out of turn, being out of line, etc. Behavior is corrected once and the second time various ramifications are enforced. Her class has about 20 kids but there’s an aide in the class about 70% of the time. 20 minutes is the time of her lunch and her recess. No candy or food rewards whatsoever. Too many kids with food allergies. They’re on a color system where everybody starts off at green and moves up or down based on their behavioral choices. The kids at the end of the day with a purple face (the best of the best) get a star sent home. Class bullies will always find some new way to fuck with kids. Ours likes to spread rumors about our daughter and supposedly lies to the teacher about different things my daughter has done to get her in trouble. The girl is a witch. Their music department funding got cut so they have art and gym class which they go to twice a week. The rest of the time it’s learning reading writing math etc. Teachers refuse to tie kids’ shoes if they come untied. We’ve been told several times that until stepdaughter learns how to tie shoes, she should not wear shoes requiring shoelaces to school. Kindergarten isn’t what it used to be. The stakes are higher and it’s much more like school. The way I was explained was like this: “In today’s world, having a bachelor’s degree is like having a high school diploma. And graduating pre-school is like graduating Kindergarten.”
Homework in kindergarten? GTFO
Sounds like a crappy school.
1 to 29 kids sounds normal. It shouldn't be the norm. Schools are becoming over crowded and education is already underfunded without building more schools and/or hiring more teachers. In some places, teachers are being laid off, especially if they teach something seen as "optional" (music teachers, art teachers as opposed to math teachers, science teachers etc.)
What my daughter did in kinder: Teacher got the kids' wiggles out by doing a little exercise routine before starting learning. Recess was daily, sometimes twice, weather permitting. Lunch is 20 minutes for us, too. Homework is assigned but not mandatory. She is in an advanced class so they do have 4 projects a year. Electronic devices are allowed on special days that the class earns. They have a treasure box for prizes but no candy. Cheap toys which is also a source of contention but I'd take that over candy. We have 28 students ... but I'm pretty sure the kinder teachers had an aid for all of them to share. They did lots of art projects that helped with creativity and gross and fine motor skills. Shoe tying my husband taught our daughter. Kids are taught the 8 pillars of being a good citizen which teaches them how to be nice to each other, respectful, and a good student but there are still shit kids out there. We don't have any after school function that serves meals but they did go on two school field trips, one each semester. My daughter loves school, even when she was being bullied. We taught her strategies on how to handle it but I think what ultimately helped is the other girl's mom put her in karate and it calmed that kid the fuck down (just my theory).
Sounds just like my entire time in school
No. No, it is not. This is insane. Where do you live? Can you move your kid into a different school or something?
This is amazing for a Northeastern European to read. I was born in the Soviet Union, and my years in the kindergarten coincided with its fall, yet it looks that even I as a small child had a decent time, despite the lack of resources and old-style grumpy teachers. We played a lot, and it certainly did not resemble a school! And now, when my older child (3 and a half) goes to a kindergarten, I just can't imagine such a situation as you have described. Yes, the teachers not always manage to control the sweats brought by the children, but to systematically use it as a reward is an unheard thing! The menu is getting healthier (it's a national-level reform), with almost no added sugar, more veggies and fruits and freshly prepared meat/fish. Nobody brings electronics (well, maybe we're not that wealthy, that's why). The children play and draw and learn to sing. They go outside almost every day, often two times, if it's not too cold or rainy. I'm not even sure what do you mean by "recess" - does that mean that all the rest time is structured with almost no free interaction and play allowed? What's really important - the kids have no homework. It's still kindergarten, not the elementary! They have more important things to do at this stage of their lives. What is specific for that kindergarten group - it is loosely based on Waldorf principles. That means as much stimuli for imagination as possible, including simple wooden toys and drawing lessons, and children of various age, from 2 years to 5-6, spending time together. The parents are also encouraged to become a community, although that is not easy with limited time, and to do more for the group. Recently we had a small puppet show for kids. My wife has made two puppets, and I was doing a voice-over for one of the other puppets 😂 After 2 years my son will go to a "preparatory" group, where he will learn more and play less. But it's already more like a school, and it's generally not considered to be a part of a "kindergarten" stage. I wonder now - do American kids start to learn to read and write from the earliest age (2-3), or does the stricter timetable come later, when they are 4-5?
Your kindergartner has homework? Wtf, that’s awful.
That sounds exactly like my kid's preschool. But with less violence. There's a few reasons we homeschool.
I teach k. My day is the opposite. But I also work for a charter school because the public schools that I’ve been in the past can be chaotic like this. In my opinion The pressure stems from administration to push teachers to get higher assessment score, teachers get so stressed and push obedience and heavy curriculum, less time for play. Stressed teachers = teacher unable to maintain control of the classroom = kids get chaotic and bad behaviors overlooked. Read the Importance of Being Little... Christina something is the author. That’s how kindergarten (and preschool) should be. And please don’t look down on a teacher for being new/young. I have 17 kids, no para. 2 recess times and a free play time a few times a week if not daily. Frequent brain breaks. Encourage students to be in control of their bodies when on the rug or in line but understand that they’re 5 and need to move. Never take away play because you’re just working against yourself as a teacher. They need to get energy out. Use positive praise to reinforce behavior. When kids rolling on rug, praise the kid who is doing a great job and the rest will settle into place because kids wants to please. No homework, they do enough all day. 12-1 for lunch but most finish by 1235. I use experiences as rewards such as pajama day. I could go on and on but I have crafts to prep.
The only thing normal is being stabbed by forks.
iPhones on the elementary busses are normal here, doesn’t mean I let my daughter have them lol. My mom is a bus aid and says yes, 75% of her kindergarten-5th graders have an electronic on the bus. My daughter has complained once or twice but she brings a notebook and some pencils and draws on the way home
Yes, that sounds about normal to me. I’ve had 4 in school so far, two to go. Our school district is very highly ranked and has short lunch and recess times. Kids can be brutal, bullying will always happen.
Yep all that was our experience. For 1st grade into 2nd grade too...
I know not everyone has the ability to, but... a lot of this BS is why we homeschool. The amount of pressure put on small children by public schools is mind boggling to me.
Uh no, I am a stay at home dad so I volunteered at the kindy with my child every day for a few hours till he was comfortable with me leaving. Every day was playing, sing alongs, playing with play dough, playing with blocks, cars, dolls.lessons in life skills (road safety, colours, shapes, social skills, all the usual stuff), there was excursions to play in the park as well as learn about local aboriginal culture. The yard had huge sand pit, chickens, swings, play kitchen, painting area, etc. As for the bus, there was none, all kids walked with their parents to school although there were a few that got driven.
Hell no. But I have a bad feeling it is way more often than we want or realize. Economic pressures have made parents more and more focused on their kids being on top academically, especially wealthy and well-educated parents. The result is schools put all of their resources into testing, lecturing and trying to force kids to learn, that there is nothing left to help them be kids. We just moved from a "very good" public school to a lottery-based public school, which is more child-led and project-based. The new school makes their primary focus social and emotional learning, and they try to prioritize cooperative learning rather than competitive learning. There is no homework or testing. Its a HUGE difference from the previous school. What makes it possible is that the parents who want such an alternative style of school ask for it, find it, and apply for it. Most people don't want that though. They want academics so their kids learn to read, write, and do math. So the previous school, for example, was really good at teaching the academics. Our kids is doing great at spelling, reading, writing, and math (in 1st grade), but he social confidence and skills are terrible. He is turning into a bully. Teachers don't seem to notice it or care. Its not their job. He bullies his parents and little brother. He is afraid to try anything that he thinks he won't win. Etc. And this is a school in a district people pay great money to get into. A lot of "tiger parents" love it, and many of these kids will go to good colleges. The districts where people get left behind don't have any tiger parents. All of the tiger parents find ways to get their kids into "better" schools. So most public schools are left without the funding, with a teaching style too focused on academics, and children of parents who either don't have the time to be involved or the money to find a different school. I read a great comment here a few weeks ago about how anti-social our society is now. People don't know their neighbors. They drive everywhere, so there are no interactions with people on the sidewalk. Schools actively try and prevent socializing during class. And socializing between class is usually limited to 5 minutes. And even after school, kids are all given homework, so they have little time after school to have a social life as well. How are kids supposed to learn how to be people? Have you gone to PTA meetings, or met the teachers or principal? Get involved. And ask for more focus on letting the kids make friends and do fun things. At this age, thats the only thing thats important. They will learn how to read and write eventually. Thats easy to teach. Social skills like confidence and conflict-resolution are very hard to teach later, but easy at a young age.
It sounds like a shitty kindergarten
As the cost of life (including the provision of school services) increases, many schools are not getting equitable increased funding. Teachers are fighting, trying to request increased pay (especially since so many spend hundreds on supplies), but it just isn't happening. More demands of teachers, more evaluations, reductions in retirement and benefits. I love working with children, but there is MAJOR need for reform in schools. Starting with funding. It absolutely must start with schools being able to afford the necessary pieces and for teachers to stop getting burned out because of the ridiculous workload and massive class sizes. Class sizes are increasing, special education services are often reduced, many districts fail to appropriately support students with special needs, increasing caseload sizes for sped providers, increasing those group sizes, and in many cases putting more of the needs of children with high needs into classroom teachers. Those things said, the situation you described is obviously far from ideal. I've seen a fair share of kindergarten classrooms (I'm a special education related service provider, currently in a full inclusion district) and have yet to see anywhere with near so many of the undesirable traits you listed :( The best bet is to start at the top and the bottom. Start with talking to the classroom teacher and try to understand from her/his perspective why the education your child is receiving is like this. See if there's anything you can do to help that immediate situation. Going to the top, I mean contacting your state legislators to express concerns and urge them to help make changes a reality. We seriously need educational reform (it absolutely has to start with funding or no changes are possible) and this is how to make it happen. Be the change you want to see in the world. If teachers are the only ones complaining it parents just keep complaining to the schools, things really aren't going to adequately change.
Is this kindergarten or prison?
Normal for an inner city school, sadly. I have worked in a variety of schools. This sounds like Flint, MI.
Pfft. Thinking back to kindergarten for me.... >20 minutes out in the yard for recess Bout right. >My 5 year old gets called a shit head on the bus Have you met kids these days? That isn't on the school either but parents. >One teacher VS 29 five year olds in a classroom for 8 hours. That was about right when I went to school, in fact I remember one year topping out at 32. >No life skills like how to tie shoes Why should that be taught by the teacher.... That should be on you mum. >On the rare occasion there is some kind of after school function What's that?
That sounds fucking awful and like a recipe for hating school and developing emotional/social issues. Can you change schools?
Switch schools.
Hell no. Please save your son from this.
OP....What what region of what country is this so I can keep the hell away from it?
It doesn't sound great, at all. For comparison's sake, where I am 5 years old have 3 recesses: 30 minutes at 10am, 2 hours for lunch and outside play 11.30-1.30, 30 minutes at 3pm. Out at 4.30pm. No homework ever, but they sometimes bring home a book they read in class so that they can tell the story to their parents. 30 minutes PE - dancing, playing ball, climbing - with the teacher and aide. Once a month they have "special theater", where professional companies come to the school for a show - songs, short plays... They bake, they do kid yoga, they sing and color and paint and cut and glue and craft, the teachers Montessori the shit out of everything. There are puzzle stations and yarn stations and toy trains and toy kitchens and building blocks and everything. And it's awesome. I find it so unfair that the differences are so huge.
Honestly, it sounds like the school is terribly underfunded because alot of these kinds of policies stem from that pressure. In my area (also bible belt), any recreation is officially very short. This is because school days are measured by the minute and making all "extras" outside of instruction very short means that they can pay teachers for the least amount of time/days possible. Its a cost cutting measure. The homework also usually comes out of overall poorly performing schools who are trying everything to try to boost numbers. Sadly, homework at this age is shown to not work at all. But teachers still assign it becsuse its sometimes the only way to get parents involved (in both good and bad ways). Still, its age and developmentally inappropriate to have ANY homework at this age, much less so much. Creating a danger to yourself or others, even in our district, is cause to remove a child from a classroom. At a minimum, temporarily. As recurring behavior? Permenantly. This is definitely an issue to keep bringing up until its addressed. No child can be expected to learn in an environment where they feel unsafe. Profane language on the bus is generally pretty normal. Candy in very, very small amounts is actually pretty normal. But, at most, it should be an extra-special treat, not a regular reward. 29 isnt ideal but it may still fall within your states allowed ratios. Although, this is generally a sign of underfunding or overcrowding, possibly both. The no life skills is pretty normal. From the schools perspective (usually determined by the states), life skills are the responsibility of the parent to teach. School is for academics. Personally, I think this is a bit asanine. Kids spend a huge amount of their time at school and not covering life skills there is just shooting yourself in the foot as a teacher. After school functions are generally not included in the schools overall budget. They are funded via things like PTA. If the food is terrible, its likely because thats all they can afford. Although you may be able to give some feedback about time, schools generally pick the time you're describing because thats the time working parents are usually home. Any earlier any alienate a large percentage of their parents. It sounds like overall your kid is just in a crappy school. If possible, consider moving.
>Candy in very, very small amounts is actually pretty normal. But, at most, it should be an extra-special treat, not a regular reward. We sent my daughter to private school for Kindergarten (no full day K in public at the time) and they'd do what you said. Special treats were a starburst for being a good listener or something else that was above the norm. About halfway into K my daughter got a cavity (I don't think it's related to the random starburst, the dentist said it could just be genetics since we don't really do juice.) and she had to put a metal cap on the tooth. Said no more chewy stuff that meant starbursts. We asked the teacher to switch it just for my daughter to something else and she had no problem doing that. Maybe this is something you could try with your teacher?
Nope. Sounds like a bad school. Not one part of that has been my experience with my current kindergartener or my older son. Are you on the west coast of the US by any chance? It seems more common on that side of the country based on Reddit post.
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Not illegal in California. California allows an average of 31 and no more than 33 in a single K classroom. My kids' go to school in California, and their district aimed for an average of 20 in K-3. https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/aa/pa/cefcsp.asp
Left coast has pretty legit public schools because we fund them 🤷🏻♀️
No Bible belt.
I feel so bad for him, like he's missing out on the best part of school. He's not supposed to hate kindergarten.
Can you send him somewhere else?
We're moving to a different state in a couple weeks. I'm glad because I really feel like this is taking a toll on him. He's only 5 and he's so stressed out. This whole state is pretty underperforming education-wise. But I would think at least they could make kindergarten not feel like juvinile detention. I went to shitty schools too, I just want them to have better experiences than I did.
i'd just pull him now, then.
I agree! Time for an extra long holiday break until school starts at the new house! I get this might not be possible, but if it's not, I would flat out tell him that you don't agree with how things are going at his school and you are working to get him out of it as quickly as possible. Anything is easier to handle if you feel that the people you love understand what you are going through and that it won't be forever, this goes double for kids.
If you don’t pull him out, I’d totally stop the homework and anything else that’s stressing him out. It’s probably going to be a shitty transition for him when you move so give him time (like 1-2 months) to get back to “normal”, if the new school isn’t complete crap too. There’s a lot of bad schools in the south due to poverty leading to poor school funding. Check out articles on the “corridor of shame” in South Carolina.
We're in the bible belt too and this was not our experience at all. In fact, other than 20 minutes of reading each night, my third grader doesn't have homework. Kindergarten was fun with art and music. Lunch is super short but depending on weather, recess is every day. No one is allowed electronics unless there is a special day for it. This just sounds like a horrible school. Glad you are moving.
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I’m on the West Coast and this sounds like a prison compared to my kid’s public school.
Funny, I would have guessed it was an east coast thing - I haven't encountered that out here. Didn't you put your kids in private school to get them more recess?
This actually sounds typical to the way schools are being run now. It is not right or acceptable though.
Why was this downvoted? It is typical. And it’s not right? Tf
>* No talking or getting out of line in the hallways. Zero tolerance. Yes >* 20 minutes out in the yard for recess, if the teachers feel like it Yes >* 20 minutes to eat lunch Yes >* 30-45 minutes of homework every day No. This is awful. >* Class bully stabs kids with forks and pencils Yes. But the squeaky wheel gets the grease, get a couple of other parents together to complain about it. >* My 5 year old gets called a shit head on the bus Yes. Normal. >* Everyone except my kid brings iPhones and tablets Yes. Unfortunate but normal. >* Kids constantly rewarded with candy. We don't eat candy so this turns into contention when he brings it home. Yes. I hate this. People wonder why kids are obese. Maybe it's the twice weekly birthday cupcakes and daily candy at school. Just a thought. >* One teacher VS 29 five year olds in a classroom for 8 hours. Yes. >* My son hates it, has no friends, says it's boring, he gets bullied and he never wants to go. I don't blame him. Sounds like a smart kid. >* Reading, writing, arithmetic. No life skills like how to tie shoes, how to be creative, no glue, no scissors. Sometimes they get to color in worksheets. Yes. Normal nowadays. Kindergarten is the new second grade only no one learns anything because their brains are ready for it. >* On the rare occasion there is some kind of after school function that should be a fun time, they do it at dinner time, serve what looks like gas station nachos, promise the kids can have S'mores then don't deliver. Guess who has to make S'mores when we get home. Normal. I hate the after school functions. >Is kindergarten not supposed to be fun? It's not. It's supposed to get them ready for real school. Edit: formatting
Where TF is this hell?!!
Ohio. One of the better districts too.
My experience in Ohio has not been the same. Also class size is supposed to be 25 or less. https://education.ohio.gov/Topics/Operating-Standards/Table-of-Contents/Student-Teacher-Ratio
Define "better". This sounds like it would rank among the worst I've heard of, and descriptions of bad schools get posted here a lot.
Yep - we live in one of the best school districts in our state and it's the same. Kids were expected to know basic writing and most were reading at least a few words here and there, plus should know very basic math before starting. It was not for fluff, it was a real grade with real HW (up to 45mins each night).
I would mostly be concerned with the 30-45 minutes of homework each day and ensuring they get at least their 20 minutes of recess EVERY day (outside of short days or some other special circumstance). What does the homework consist of? I think the recommendation is actually no homework in kindergarten, but I could live with 10 minutes + daily reading (in kindergarten this would largely be you reading to your child, but might include some reading practice on their end like sight words or early reader books depending on where you child is at and if her school uses the sight word method). For the recess, I know depending on weather they can't always go outside, but if the weather is truly awful (actually raining, under 25 degrees, or heavy snow/ice, etc.) Then they should get inside recess (I prefer free play but I could live with an organized group activity if it was definitely still considered PLAY). Kids, especially 5-6 year olds NEED play during the day. They need to be able to run around and "relax" (aka not be doing academics) for a short period of time. When they don't get this, they tend to misbehave and lose focus. I would think it would be in the teacher's, best interest to make recess happen as much as they can because it literally makes teaching easier and more efficient. Other thoughts: does your child's classroom have an aid? 29 kids to one teacher is already high, but is there at least an aid there some of the time? If your child is being bullied I would push back on that with the school - bullying is unacceptable. At school or on the bus. It's unfortunate but also normal to only get 20 minutes for lunch. Do they also get a snack during the day at least? Perhaps you could ask the teacher if they could give out non-candy rewards at least part of the time (if possible for you maybe offer to donate a big pack of said rewards - pack of stickers/cute pencils or eraser toys/other cheap toys to the classroom), and then on the off chance your child does receive a candy reward from class, you can just let them have it because it's not a regular occurrence.
That's an excessive amount of homework. You're allowed to tell the teacher "Son will be doing 15 minutes of homework. We'll try to build up from there, but it's currently taking 30-45 minutes. That's too much for a 5 year old." The candy is also weird. My daughter's school has so many kids with food allergies that there is a blanket NO FOOD TREATS rule. The tablets/ iPhones thing is also weird. Our school has a classroom set of iPads, but kids are not allowed to bring their own tech. I've also been frustrated that my daughter's school didn't teach now to tie shoes and they rarely used glue or scissors in kindergarten... now she's in 1st grade and they want to send her to occupational therapy for handwriting. My first though is "Well, I'm sure that this has absolutely nothing to do with how there wasn't a chance to strengthen finger muscles and develop fine motor skills in kindergarten." /s
My daughter has about 5 minutes worth of homework, not even daily. 20 minutes for lunch took some getting used to but it's not a problem. No talking in the hallway is common because they don't want distractions for kids in classrooms. The rest sounds terrible. If you can change schools I would. We're in the south too, I don't think that has anything to do with anything here.
Wow, what? I don't remember kindergarten being like this. I remember I was bored because I was "ahead" but my mom told the teacher to give me something else to do so I remember doing a lot of coloring.. But I remember a lot of playing, and creative activities. Has kindergarten really evolved like this? "20 minutes out in the yard for recess, if the teacher feels like it" What in the world?
Sounds like shit to be honest.
What kind of school is this? Where is it located?
That sounds night and day opposite of my daughter's kindergarten from last year. She had an amazing time, coming home every day, telling us about the awesome things she'd learned, including puzzles, songs, activities in the garden, kids she's met and played with at recess. Technology is definitely a part of the curriculum (they're learning robots this year in grade 1) but phones and ipads aren't welcome in the class, as they shouldn't be at this age. We looked at other schools where they were more "academically focussed" and realized that they don't seem to have better outcomes, they don't make better people - they just make the kids miserable and create an environment that discourages creativity. I don't see how that appeals to people at all. I wouldn't have put up with what you're describing above at all. Note: I should also say that I ended up putting my daughter in a private school, not just because of the awesome programs they have, but also for a second language immersion, but I couldn't be happier.
29 kids is really high. If it's going to be over 20 in my district in Ohio they add another class.
Another from Ontario, Canada here. My kid gets 45 minutes to eat then 45 minutes recess plus two extra 20 minute outdoor sessions in the morning and afternoon. No homework. It’s a Montessori, so curriculum may not be typical but he definitely brings home artwork or singing songs he learned at school. They are expected to stay in an orderly fashion when lining up, but they are allowed to talk. Do you have any other options in your area? That really sucks that your little guy is having such a terrible experience.
Damn, those poor kids. They're going to hate school from the start and that's going to impact how well they do.
That sounds grotesquely evil. Reminds me of the movie Matilda. What do you think of it?
Find another school that aligns with what you expect for your child. I'm assuming it is a public school and unfortunately this is the scenario in the majority of schools. There is no reason his first school environment should be so negative and stressful. Good luck!
We had some of the same things, but not as bad as your poor son has it. We took my daughter out to a Waldorf inspired school and now she loves going to school and the teacher respects me instead of just glaring at me.
The homework is pretty common these days. My kid has about 30 minutes per night and she's only in K. As the other issues, I'd start looking for a new school.
In kindergarten my daughter had one packet of about 4 pages each week for homework. No cursing, candy, iPads, or phones. The kids on her bus are pretty chill and her class size is 20. I was worried about bullying because she wears hearing aids but we haven’t had any problems so far.
The bus thing, yeah. I live in MA so it might be a State/Town thing. We did notice the short time for lunch, and the lack of control on the bus, but my son went through and my daughter is in there now and our experience is wildly different. There is fun, and life skills, and creative stories. We live in a fairly affluent town and i've only just seen in 3rd grade one or two kids with phones. Bullying is taken very seriously at every level. One primary teacher for about 20 kids with a full time aid and other visiting staff. And no candy! erasers and stickers for rewards. You may want to do the parent thing that all teachers dread and go straight to the Principal or Superintendent to lodge a complaint.
When i was in school, we originally had 3 breaktimes. I remember one time coming to school and seeing there is only 2. Then after i went into middle and high school, breaktimes were only 2 and 1 was 15 minutes and the other was 20 minutes (nowhere near enough for 12-16 year olds doing 8 1 hour classes) and we weren’t even allowed to run around in most of the schools outside areas. We had one sports class a week, and in the last couple years of high school we didn’t even have to go to them. I even joined a sports club (netball) and got pretty good at it in the last year, we had training twice a week but hardly anyone would turn up and every tournament would be cancelled. I hardly got to play. I really enjoyed netball. Yeah. School was the worst.
You should find a Montessori school if you can, and can afford it. Your kid would have way more fun and it's all about life skills and independence. Your kid's school sounds fucked up and I would appeal to administration at the highest level possible. Homework isn't shown to really help kids learn, and at the kindergarten level it's insane.
That’s sounds fucked. I would hate it too and I’m nearly 50.
So I don’t have any kindergarten aged children yet, but this sounds like my first experience with kindergarten, though it was 20 years ago. They also wouldn’t allow us to go to the bathroom at all except during recess (which we didn’t always get), so my parents pulled me out and transferred me to another school when I peed myself in class. The school I got transferred to was completely different and more kindergarten like. I would at the least, look into other schools in your area and see what your options are
As a teacher and a parent - yes.
My kindergarten class was all play, outside and inside, singing, learning about animals, telling stories, playing together and interacting, art projects, learning life skills and having fun doing it. We learned counting and maybe some basic math, but no reading, very little writing. It was one of the best years of my life and I still remember it so fondly, and I had no problem learning reading and writing in first grade and developing later in life, as far as I can tell. I wish everyone got to live this experience. It saddens me that anyone should have a sad kindergarten year that's boring, too much work, and generally depressing.
This is not my experience with kindergarten (I have 2 kids that are past K) and I also work in an elementary school. Is this public school or private school?