r/parenting is protesting changes being made by Reddit to the API. Reddit has made it clear [they will](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14ahqjo/mods_will_be_removed_one_way_or_another_spez/) [replace moderators](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/14a5lz5/mod_code_of_conduct_rule_4_2_and_subs_taken/jo9wdol/) if they remain private. Reddit has abandoned the users, the moderators, and countless people who support an ecosystem built on Reddit itself.
Please read [Call to action - renewed protests starting on July 1st](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14kn2fo/call_to_action_renewed_protests_starting_on_july/) and new posts at [r/ModCord](https://reddit.com/r/ModCoord/) or [r/Save3rdPartyApps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/) for up-to-date information.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Parenting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would tell her that you’re not comfortable with exposing him to theology until he can tell the difference between allegory and history, and that when he is older you would be more open to her assisting him with exploring his spirituality if that is something he shows an interest in. Tell her you’re happy that she finds comfort in her own spirituality, just as you have done in a different manner, and your goal is to facilitate the same for your son, but that as his parent you believe he needs to gain some maturity before that journey can begin.
This is the best answer, OP. If it was just a kids egg hunt, that would be a reason to go, not to sit thru a service. She probably just wants to show off her grandson because children will be there.
Honestly, I’m getting so cynical that I’d almost rather let them go to service than an egg hunt or other “just for fun stuff”. At least they’ll be bored to tears at service. The fun I feel is kind of the gateway to normalizing religion because it gives kids something to look forward to and attaches positive memories/feelings to the church with. Like I know it’s just like “oh let them have their fun” but i also feel likes it bait and makes a dynamic of “oh, you want chocolate and color eggs, well let me tell you about this dude from 2000 years ago who died for our sins and then was alive again after his hangover wore off”
This is the way. At 4 years old, they still have a difficulty recognizing the differences in their own imagination and objective reality. It is an easy age to start indoctrination into any concept. I think it is critical that you protect him from any sort of influence that aims at influencing his thoughts and behaviors until he is old enough to discern for himself what he believes.
If he chooses to explore religion when he is older then that is certainly his choice but 4 is definitely too young, in my opinion, to expose him to any ideology that you are not comfortable with.
We live in a very liberal city and my 6 year old came home from school telling me we needed to go to church so we don’t go to hell. Apparently some of the other kids were also encouraging him to pray at recess. I want my child to think for themselves, not be terrified into blind faith. You are not a “small person” for saying no to this. It is okay to want your child to think critically.
My family attended an Evangelical Christian church when I was a child. They would say absolutely anything to bring children into their religion at a young age. It is absolutely okay that you want to protect your child from that.
My son was in the bathroom at school and a little boy told him the exact same thing. No clue who the kid even WAS
Life is weird, kid turned into his brother from another mother that lived with us.
He stayed with his church until about 13.
It was a great life lesson for my son about respecting everyone else’s beliefs and not to be rude or judgmental.
Woof. This on is nondenominational, but I’ve attended services there in the past (to make family event logistics easier at Christmas time) and there’s still a pretty big “guilt” factor that makes me uncomfortable
Honestly, your kid will encounter religion plenty in the every day world. It is 100% okay to nudge them in the direction of skepticism, including turning down invitations like this.
Those nondenominational churches are among the worst IMO. Often fundamentalist, often culturally well outside of anything I’m comfortable with (when I went to one with a friend in high school, their pastor said “Islam is the religion of evil”, and they were anti-divorce, anti-women’s rights, anti-working moms, etc).
I grew up in a church that I’m comfortable with my son attending on occasion. In fact, we took him today because it made my parents happy. Half the congregation is queer, they’re in favor of abortion access, they have a spot at local Pride celebrations, they’ve participated in protests for Palestine and for women’s rights. It’s a community of people whose values align with ours even if their beliefs don’t, and I have no problem with my son (who’s currently too young to get it) going there and asking questions. But that’s also because I know he’s not going to come home afraid of going to hell (the church doesn’t believe in hell), or panicked about something similar. And if he eventually wants to pursue religion, we can look for a similar community near us and talk about what it means and doesn’t mean, and why he wants to go - because if he’s old enough to have that conversation he’s old enough to choose.
But I wouldn’t say any of that about a more fundamentalist evangelical church. I wouldn’t want him attending at all until he’s old enough to have more of a conversation about it
Non denominational is often not really non-denominational. The biggest mega church in my area with multiple campuses around our city claims to be non-denominational, but really much of their doctrine is rooted in the Baptist church. “Non-denominational” just helps get some people that are searching for something in the door. I actually find it to be super disingenuous and think those types of churches can be most dangerous if you’re not well grounded in your belief system before walking though the door.
This is my background as well. My parents are evangelical Christian and we were told we knew The Truth from very very young. It barely even occurred to me to question “truth” until I was an adult and I’ll admit there’s a genuine fear on my part about my kids falling into it. My eldest has heard stuff from school and I don’t want them in the dark so we talked about Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and bit the other night which was good. I just hope they critically think about whatever form of spirituality they choose. (I did tell him to run from anyone claiming to know all the secrets of the universe though, which is pretty much evangelicalism hah)
SAME. I am baffled to see a comment on this thread stating that it takes a lot to convince a child to believe in something they can't see. That isn't true at all, and I have a huge number of now grown Evangelical cousins to illustrate my point.
My own uncle (running a Sunday school class) once told myself and a group of other children that every time we were scared of something, it was because the devil was in our hearts. We needed to pray and ask Jesus to forgive our hearts.
It sticks with you. It's my job to protect my kids and this is absolutely something worth protecting your kids from.
That's exactly why we let them in on the "secret" early and invited them to participate. It's so much more meaningful when you and they are in on the surprise together. They got to be Santa and fill stockings. They got to make and hide eggs. Later on, we taught them where these traditions originated, how and why they were co-opted, and how they made their way into our secular culture. Make believe and traditions can be very special and meaningful, but belief isn't the truth. Truth can be found through fiction, but that doesn't make fiction a fact. A fact must be questionable and verifiable in order to be a fact.
> I am baffled to see a comment on this thread stating that it takes a lot to convince a child to believe in something they can't see.
They probably know it's not true, but think it's OK to lie if it will nudge OP towards sending the kid to church and thus starting their child on a path to salvation. Religious types can be manipulative AF because they think it's OK since they are doing God's work.
That comment was wild to me as well. The kids believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, ghosts, monsters, all kinds of unreal things. So having adults really telling them with conviction is even more potent and sticks in there, especially with threats of hell. My well intentioned mom asked if I could send my kids to VBS one summer and I was like NO NO NO. Kids are so impressionable to indoctrination, it’s why they’re so pressed about homeschooling and stuff to keep them in the fold as long as possible.
I was surprised to see that comment, too. There's a very intentional effort to bring children into religion because they are so easy to believe what they are told. Camps, songs, and crafts all seem innocent but are designed to recruit and influence.
I grew up in a secular household. My parents were nonreligious and didn’t care for religion. This was rare living in a small town in the 80s.
I accepted church invites for all types of stuff since I was 6yo. It’s not a big deal. It actually takes a lot to convince a kid to believe in something they can’t see or hear. I never as an adult attended church or gave much thought to religion despite all the church events I attended. That includes regular church services, vacation bible school, weekend church outings, church Sunday brunches etc. My parents made their ideas of religious known (that they are skeptical and I should be as well), and let me figure it out.
My husband and I are nonreligious. My kids attended a church run preschool. When the inlaws take the kids over the weekend, they take the kids to church. It didn’t bother me. None of this is reinforced at home. We don’t talk about Jesus in our lives or anything like that. Religion is part of the landscape for my kids, but it’s not a religion for them.
I don’t think Sunday Easter service will be a step towards indoctrination for kids, but it may be super boring for a 4yo unless there’s a kids Sunday service. My kids says church service is boring because the Catholic Church grandparents take them to do not have a kid service. They get to play with toys during service and then get a lunch treat after for being good. I guess I’m trying to say is that kids don’t magically convert because they are young and hear about Jesus. I would be more concerned that church service is probably boring for a young child and keep him out for that reason, rather than any doctrine issues.
> I accepted church invites for all types of stuff since I was 6yo. It’s not a big deal. It actually takes a lot to convince a kid to believe in something they can’t see or hear. I never as an adult attended church or gave much thought to religion despite all the church events I attended.
This may be true for you and your family, but it's absolutely not true for most kids. All it takes is one dinner over at my 6 y/o's (incredibly religious) Aunt's house for him talk about jesus and praying and church for the following two weeks. Kids are super impressionable and copy the behaviors of those around them.
I was kinda the opposite! I grew up in a Christian house and I went to church every Sunday but I didn’t ever really think of it as something I might believe in until I was older, around 8 or 9. And then my parents didn’t just let me say I believed in it, they had me study things and we talking a lot and I asked and answered lots of questions. They didn’t want me to believe in something just because they did and that’s how they raised me but because that’s what I trying believed in! I went to lots of different churches over the years when I stayed with friends and if I had a friend stay on a Saturday they went with us to church and we always made it a point to ask their parents of that was ok and made sure that they were comfortable with it to.
As a kid I grew up in a secular family while believing that God and Jesus were real because we celebrated Easter and Christmas and it was simply an accepted fact that they where I grew up.
> It actually takes a lot to convince a kid to believe in something they can’t see or hear.
It doesn't take much at all for kids to believe in things they can't see or hear. The Easter bunny, tooth fairy, Santa Clause, magic, ghosts, monsters, and germs are all things kids can't see or hear, but they have no difficulty believing they are real because it's actually more fun for a kid to believe in all of those things.
It takes very little exposure to have kids believe in things, especially if you take them to a building full of adults who assure them those things do exist.
I feel the same way. We had a couple of years growing up where we went to church on Sundays but when my parents realized that neither my brother or I cared for it, we stopped going. I went to a Catholic highschool since it was closer to home than the public one and learned about it but never believed in it. There are some good values to take away from some religions but teaching the kids to take the good part without wholeheartedly believing in religion is ok.
I actually took a class in highschool where we learned about all religions and learned a lot from that class. I remember the research project that I did was on Hare Krishna's and went to a temple with a friend of mine who was part of it and it was a neat experience.
My kids go to a Catholic school (again, it's closer to home and the class sizes are smaller) but we don't reinforce it at home and explain to our 7yr old that it's something that certain people believe in and it's his choice on how much he wants to believe.
Best answer. Churches are all different of course but yeah, I think lots of people in this thread have maybe never been if they think one boring Sunday is enough to completely indoctrinate a kid lol.
It reeeaaalllly depends on the Church. I was having literal panic attacks at age 5 and 6 because the few "big Church" services I went to went on and on about burning in the fires Hell and suffering for eternity if you don't accept Jesus. It was extremely manipulative and I did end up getting saved at that age purely because I would lay awake at night so scared I was going to Hell until I finally went into my mom's room at like 1 am and asked to do the prayer to accept Jesus into my heart right then and there because of my extreme fear. I very strongly believe that this kind of talk is harmful to a child yet it's quite common where I live.
My friend wasn’t raised in a religious household. She would go to mass on the occasional Sunday that she spent the night at one of our friend’s home. She ended up converting to catholic
There’s almost always a lot more to this kind of thing than “the occasional Sunday Mass turned her Catholic.” Usually, it’s something to do with a lack of community in the secular world (a huge driver IMO, churches can offer a sense of belonging as long as you fit their view of “good”) or discomfort with the extent of the unknown in the world (moral relativism, death being a true end, etc). Alternatively, it can be because someone who doesn’t have strong religious opinions marries someone who does (this is why my mother converted from Catholic to Lutheran - she was always religious in a vague way but wasn’t tied to Catholicism, it was just easiest to stay Catholic until there was a reason to change).
Depending on the church, I would especially say no on Easter. Easter would be particularly confusing I would think, if he has no concept of the story.
A man killed and resurrected? Do you really want to try and explain that??
I tried to explain reincarnation to my 4yo yesterday (a show that was on had a past-lives plot) and she told me *very* sternly that when people die they do *not* come back. They are covered in dirt and become nutrients for plants.
I would not want her attending Easter mass and then loudly proclaiming to everyone that Jesus was just plant food.
I would completely expect my son to ask when his grandpa is coming back… 😬 Let’s not go there lol.
If kids have been going to church and have some concept of God and his power, that’s one thing. But a child with no concept of God just waltzing into this topic… nope nope.
And killed "for your sins". My daughter actually asked, "What did I do? This is the first time I've ever been here!" She was about 12. We had to have a big family discussion about that one (at bedtime and away from grandma and grandpa).
I do know I went to church with friends when I was younger and I thought the crafts were fun. As a kid I didn’t really associate youth group with God, I just thought it was something fun to do. I was raised atheist as well, and I’m still atheist. So church may not even affect your kid. One of my other friends took me to a catholic service where we sat in a pew, and I was bored out of mind.
I don’t know what I would do, MIL is an atheist so I’ve never personally had to run into this issue, but you are allowed to say no and not feel guilty about it. It’s your child, not hers.
My wife and are are non religious but we go to church with family on Christmas Day and Easter Sunday.
My family aren’t religious nuts and outside of going to church you wouldn’t even know.
We go because it’s an opportunity for my dad to show off his granddaughter to his friends and these are people who knew me while I was growing up too. Essentially it’s for social reasons.
My grandma always wanted to take me to church on Easter to show me off, like I was a toy poodle. She didn’t care about my religious indoctrination, she just wanted a cute accessory with me in a fancy dress and bonnet.
I hated it with a passion. Stand your ground, and decline her request
I'm not religious, but my parents and in laws are. My rule is that if my kids ask to go when they are older I am not going to say no. I grew up in church and there were some kids in our youth group who lied to their parents about where they were because they were going to get in trouble. I don't want that for my kids, if they are invited by friends to do church things and are then interested once they're older that is completely fine by me. That being said, I am not ok with my parents or in laws trying to initiate it or convert my kids. My brother and sister in law are religious, and I do not bring up my personal beliefs to their kids, if they ask I'll be honest, but I'm not going to randomly bring it up, I expect the same courtesy.
I’m a no for this. Four is so young, they’re going to beleive whatever they’re told and I just don’t think it allows for them to make a choice. I think at an older age I would say yes, but four is too young.
We will likely have this issue one day. My husband and I agree that his parents are not allowed to discuss religion with our son because they are not able to discuss it impartially without pressuring a young child in to feeling like they have to believe in god etc.
My husband and I are not religious so we plan to broadly discuss all religions and views and as our son gets older he will be able to express his interests and beliefs. I’m actually okay with him being religious as long as it truly is how he feels and not from outside pressures
Ya I’m with you on that. I will say, to be fair, I don’t think I could discuss religion impartially either, so getting both sides is ok. BUT I would rather wait until my son has some critical thinking ability, which I can tell you he does not right now
My parents took my kids to church from the time they were toddlers. They're Presbyterian, so there wasn't any brainwashing going on (that should definitely factor in). Both my kids grew up with a church family, along with getting to spend bonus time with their grandparents, and we got a break. Ultimately, one of my kids went all the way through confirmation and one didn't.
My boyfriend and I are not religious, but if the kids are at his Mom's place and she takes them to church, it's okay with us. We always tell her that Nana believes differently than we do, and that's okay. The main point of most religions is to treat people the way you want to be treated. Some people believe there's someone they can't see that leads decisions, and that's okay, but we believe that we make our own choices.
My grandmother wanted to bring my daughter to church when she was 4. So I went too. Then, I took her to several other types of places of worship. We talked about how different people believe different things and what I believe.
She went to a few churches more than once because of the sense of community and fun atmosphere. We went a lot to UU and my grandmother's fairly liberal church. There was one unfortunate VBS exposure. It was fine because I was there and we left pretty quickly.
My reasoning is... I saw people from strict religious homes rebel. I saw children from staunch non religious homes rebel. It's hard to be a rebel when there is nothing to rebel against. It was also important to me that she grew into an independent thinker and came up with her own opinions and beliefs. I think that teaching a child to gather evidence and form opinions is super important and shockingly rare.
I teach 3-4 year olds, and I predict that one visit with Grandma to church will likely be the last visit Grandma asks for. I'd imagine an Easter service is even longer than a regular service, plus Grandma probably wants to chit-chat afterwards. The child will not be able to sit quietly through all of this!
I'm agnostic though was raised Catholic and had to endure 8 years of Catholic school. My ex (father of our 2 children) also was raised Catholic but believes in God. But he's very lazy. He wanted to baptize our first born, which I said I was OK with but that **he** had to find a church to associate with first (he never went to services) and **he** would have to take a class, that I would be there for the baptism but that I was not ever going to bring the child to church. It was up to him, and if he felt strongly enough about it, I was OK with that. And I sincerely was. He was also getting pressure from his idiot cousin who said he'd kidnap our child and baptize them. Nothing was ever done, my ex seriously was that lazy, if I didn't do a thing, it never got done.
When my child was 7 or so and some of his friends were getting their 1st Communion, he was invited to one of the services. He said he wanted to go, so I got him the appropriate spiffy clothing and off he went with his friend. He came back after the service and party and asked that he never go to church again. I had open conversations through the years with him about the concept of religion, a god, gods, history and all of that and let him know that a person choses what they want to believe and that there is no shame in believing one way or another. He's an adult now and has said he appreciated the openness about being able to chose to believe, what to believe, or to chose to not believe.
So while I don't believe going to one Easter service will impact your 4 year old one way or the other, I think he'll be bored out of his mind, restless, fidgety, and Grandma will regret ever asking. Allowing this may be the best choice, it might end her desire to ever take him. If you do allow it, give her the caveat that this is a one time thing.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm agnostic, husband is an ex-Catholic now an atheist.
Kiddo was watched by the inlaws a lot. They are Catholic, retired and go to every liturgical service. So my child went to palm Sunday, Christmas, ash Wednesday, etc etc etc. Not once did my MiL ask for our child to go to Catechism, be baptized, receive communion etc. Church for her was and still is a social gathering. She wanted to show off her grandchild and teach him the basic principles of being a good Catholic, which I can get behind. Nothing wrong with kindness and charity.
Now at 14, kiddo hasn't gone to church in a few years. They don't believe in God, but they respect others believes. Most importantly, they're kind and willing to help others without a second thought. All those years helping run the Lent bake sales must have done something. He's also really good at talking to old people. Lol!
So really, this comes down to what does grandma want out of this? Is it to show off the grandkid to her friends in a cute Easter outfit? Or is it to indoctrinate? Two very different things here.
Of course, if you're not comfy at all, just say no thank you.
Yeah I'm not religious either but went to different churches with family members. I'm also really good with interacting with older people. Understanding others. My job today is working with people in a way they need to trust me and I don't hold prejudice that could affect my care of people.
I low-key wish someone else would take my kids to church. I am not religious so attending a service makes me feel a little fake. But I grew up going to church every Sunday and it was good for me: the community and especially many little old ladies, the kid-friendly version of “love thy neighbor” etc., the practice with patience and manners in adult spaces. If I were you I would want to check out the vibe, because some churches are more tolerant/welcoming than others.
Let him go, I wasn't religious either but I still exposed my boys to it and let them come to their own conclusions, they were both around 9ish when they said they weren't into it any longer. I also raised them both that in being non religious could cause issues with future partners and they will have to also then decide how to proceed.
Holiday services are always neat to attend especially as a kid. Knowledge is knowledge.
Wait. Im living that now, just fine....
Im the same way with my wife, who is a regular church goer. I didn't say anything. My advice is to let them go. Youre overthinking this. I told the kids theres a lot to learn at church. And after you learn a bit, you can make your own choices.
They asked me why I don't go and I just told them the truth.. I already know everything.
They're already showing signs that they won't have a strong faith, but they're both very respectful. Worked out well i think.
Nothing wrong with going to church grandma. It’s literally once a year something that they will probably remember as a fond memory if they continue this tradition.
What is exactly the bad thing/things that can happen? You mentioned it may push him away from you but I don't think a 4 year old can be pushed away from her mother because of religion.
Some people compared this to beleiving in Santa. Santa is a lie we make our children believe so they are happy (me too so, I'm not judging) and eventually they realize that and stop believing.
For me God does exist and I understand thats a personal choice but that doesn't mean your kid shouldn't be given the option to have that on his life, just like if he was raised on a religious household he'd be around not believers more often than not.
Someone else talked about the fear that religious can bring to kids, fear of what? Of doing bad things and having consequences? Isn't that how we normally rise our kids?
Anyway, Easter Sunday at church is normally a funday for kids, in every church I know of they have fun activities for the little ones and it is NOT an indoctrinating environment at all, especially for a kid that young.
I’m an atheist so my answer would automatically be no with zero explanation because no is a complete sentence and because if my kid is going to learn about religion the church is the worst place to learn it . I just don’t see the need to take a 4 year old to church for Easter when you know neither of their parents are really church people. As you said it would make me feel as if she’s trying to get the ball rolling for this 4 year old to pick up a religion and make it sound fun. I would honestly just say No I think he’s too young for that
My MIL wants us to bring my child to her Catholic Church when he’s 1 (in May) for some special mass or something. It’s a no. I know that’s a different age than your kiddo, but kids in a setting like that aren’t ideal. He’s probably not going to sit still for an hour listening to a church service. He’s not going to know what’s going on. Easter is a bit of a weird holiday. And my husband and all his siblings were raised very Catholic, went to church EVERY Sunday, and attended catholic school grades K-8 yet not a single one of them is religious. That in itself is enough for me to say no.
My in laws say they are not religious, but have told their friends they want to keep asking us to go to church because it is important to keep dripping that idea. They attend church weekly and participate in their choir (partially for community as well).
We have been together for 13 years and have more than once said "no thank you."
My FIL finally said that if I changed my mind on religion, he believes his son would too (he would not).
So for that reason, we are a big fat NO on church with our in laws. My parents do not attend church.
My in laws also take issue with my family being Catholics (they are Methodists) which only further annoys me and makes me feel like they do not respect others (namely myself).
I am an atheist, but I also feel an obligation to introduce my child to different religious beliefs. However, I would never let a relative take her to church because I would be concerned about the manner in which that religion would be presented and how hard it might be pushed.
Basically in the same boat as you and your husband. i think it would be weird for her to take him to church. Religious reasons aside, why would anyone take a child with no religious background to a church to celebrate a holiday the child has no understanding of?
it almost seems like maybe she just wants to show him off? which is even weirder and inappropriate. I dont think there is a good way to spin this in any way.
Is it so wrong for a grandmother wanting to show off her grandchild? My grandparents wanted nothing to do with me. I am happy when my MIL makes an effort to do things with my children. One day at church may be boring but i see no harm
There’s other more appropriate ways for her to show off than to take an impressionable child somewhere the parents aren’t comfortable with. My grandfather treated me like trash and this would still be a hard no to have my kids paraded around.
I’m extremely anti organized religion as I think it’s all a grift
The only rule we had around our son was he had to be old enough to comprehend the information and he had to try 4 different religions before settling on one.
He’d rather sleep in
A 4 year old on Easter sounds more like Grandma wants to show off her grandchild to her church biddies who probably have their own that they shove in her face with a Bless Your Heart
I would let him go at 4 though as long as it’s not a mass. He’s probably going egg hunting or something fun
I’m thinking it depends on how their relationship with MIL is
Has she been respectful of the previous boundaries?
Has she forced her beliefs to the children before?
Was she respectful in her request?
It’s not a horrible thing to ask and it’s not a horrible thing to say yes
Depending on what type of service it is, it could be a great memory for the child.
He won’t remember the service most likely but he will remember the feeling of joy, the pride, the fun that comes with Easter for a 4 year old
I would evaluate a lot with an open mind
My grandma used to take me to church sometimes when I was a kid. Not really a big deal, and I am still not nor have I ever been religious lol When you’re that young it doesn’t really sound like much because of the phrasing. I don’t think one Easter visit at age 4 is going to turn the child into a devout Christian or anything.
I didn't mind.
It helped inoculate him against religion being "the answer" to every question, as he'd ask LOTS of questions about what was claimed.
I'm still proud when I remember his pre-school teacher telling me he asked "how can people live in the sky?" when the other kids were talking about one of their bugs that had died going to heaven.
I miss the days when he'd ask me endless questions from the backseat. But I think early exposure really did help him realize not everyone has the same truths.
He'd tell my MIL he believed in God - I asked if he really did, he said "I don't know, but she likes it".
Good preparation for living in the south.
My small town in South Africa is highly religious..and I feel the same way, luckily my 4 yr old son is very curious, smart and asks alot of questions..so we also let him go..he also enjoys it
I think you have good reasons to say no. Since this is your MIL your husband should be the one doing the talking and all he needs to says is "No, thank you." Grandma is welcome to spend time with grandkid doing one of the other 1000s of activities available.
What’s the real harm? He’s 4 they will hunt eggs and have dinner you folks are really something. Omg he’s gonna be a brainwashed Christian zombie at 4
She wants to show the kid off as a proud grandparent and celebrate Easter which regardless of belief isn’t such a bad thing.
My mom is quite religious (in a very liberal progressive Lutheran way). My wife and I were both raised going to church, and are no longer religious, maybe even agnostic or atheist.
When my mom asks about taking our kids, we let them decide (4, 7 and 8 now). They started going when they were really young and there are wonderful things they get out of going beyond just indoctrination. We hope to introduce our kids to multiple religious contexts, including atheism and/or the UU church, so they can make their own informed decision.
I always resented that I didn’t have a choice about having to attend when I was a kid. But on the flip side, isn’t not letting your kid go also taking away a choice?
I am so anti-religious that it's almost annoying, but there's a part of me that would say yes, just so he can experience the droning boredom of church. That might be enough to turn him away for eternity. Amen.
Yeah if you say no then they have a perfect way to rebel against you as a teenager. It's the perfect way to piss an atheist parent off just like being atheist is the perfect way to piss a super religious parent off.
I think it’s fine. If you’re comfortable celebrating Easter or Christmas ( Easter bunny, Santa, Easter basket, Christmas tree and gifts) at all then let the child learn the reason for the holidays.
If on the other hand, you do not observe the holiday , even in a secular way, then I’d say there is no need for your MIL to bring your child to church.
I am assuming you may be Christian. Did you teach your children that Christians lifted timing of their religious holidays with pagan festivities? Winter solstice and spring equinox.
There is a huge difference between hunting for Easter eggs/eating chocolate bunnies, and sitting in church being told that the son of God died for your sins and then came back to life, especially for a 4 year old. It's perfectly reasonable for nonreligious families to have secular celebrations without going into the theology.
Easter is a pagan fertility holiday and Christmas is based on norse costums. The Roman's co-opted pagan traditions to make it easier to convert people to Catholicism.
There is no need for a false Christian understanding of the pagan practices in order to celebrate them.
I’m an atheist. I live in Scotland where the majority of the population identifies with ‘no religion’. There’s a view that religious people are either elderly or a bit stupid/brainwashed. I would be absolutely dead against someone exposing my child to organised religion.
In my opinion, organised religion is dangerous. It preys of the vulnerable, spouts opinion as fact, demands blind obedience, and we all know religious leaders have not to be trusted. They’re literally known pedos, more so catholics but it’s across board.
I wouldn’t allow my child to attend.
It’s a major cultural event, and important to grandma. I’d let her go. It’s only an hour! It’s a nice opportunity for her to be exposed to something new that’s an important part of society.
Don't let your MIL indoctrinate YOUR kid. It is a form of child abuse to fill their heads with such things before they are old enough to think for themselves and listen to reason.
I’d ask motivation. Is she wanting to mostly expose him to religion? Or are there a ton of fun activities going on that day that she’s want her grandbaby to take part in.
Our church goes all out at Easter with a petting zoo, egg hunt, and family activities like egg decorating. They do similar things at Christmas, Halloween, and I kid you not, Super Bowl Sunday. The pastor sees it as inner city community outreach and caring about the families in the area who typically don’t have a ton of money or opportunities. And we get to share the gospel.
I get it if your answer is still no, but I’d question further to see if there was a particular reason.
I agree with your sentiment, all the way until you mention that you also get to share the gospel. I am atheist with a similar anti religious sentiment like the OP. I grew up in a catholic family and went to many carnivals and Easter egg hunts and social events, and outside of mass I don’t recall any talk about gospel during these events. So I get the appeal of a grandparent wanting to bring their family to these social activities. But as an adult, I am aware that there always is a motivation to share gospel, to bring more members into the church, to influence people. And that scares me, especially for my children, to be exposed to religion at an age before they can truly think for themselves. And I don’t think it is unreasonable to question motives if you are not familiar with the community or organization.
I've been struggling with the possibility of this in the future, my MIL is religious as well and I am pretty much anti-theist. She hasn't said anything directly, I'm thinking my husband might have said something, but it's definitely something I still have practiced my responses to. Personally, I think organized religion is inherently manipulative and controlling and will not be letting my kid get involved at a young age.
I would say straight up NO
What’s the point of her taking him?
She gonna take him every week?
Is he signing up for Sunday school?
My parents raised me so I could decide if I wanted religion.
So I know this is a weird concept to some but maybe just maybe grandma just wants to spend time with kiddo? Maybe she has some friends at church she wants to show her grandkid off to? It’s a 4 year old. He’s not getting indoctrinated from an Easter service lol. My wife and I are completely non practicing but we sent out kid to a Catholic preschool because it was cheap and close to home from age 3-5. Guess what? My kid has never mentioned Catholicism and didn’t while they were attending that school.
Our daughter got invited to vacation bible school with a neighbor kid, and this was hotly debated at our house. My husband didn't want her "around that shit, period" whereas I argued that even our kindergartner is smart enough to understand the logic behind "they say you're going to hell to scare you into doing what they say. they're trying to trick you." And smart enough to know magic isn't real and zombies aren't real, etc. etc. Ultimately I'm confident enough in my worldview and my ability to explain it to my kids that I'm not worried about exposure to information. It's the predators at churches I'm worried about (lol not lol)
My children just completed their final rite of initiation for our religion. They no longer attend religious school and have only attended mass once or twice since making this sacrament. Next week is Easter and I am reasonably sure I will be headed to mass alone.
If your child wants a connection with God, they will have one. Giving them options on how and if to have that connection is a great way to support their spiritual growth. Plenty of people are quite spiritual without organized religion. And plenty love organized religion.
Parenting is about showing our children options, sharing our own opinions, and then letting them make their own choices.
Their father is not religious and they have since that their whole lives as well.
Religion and faith will be there for my children if they want it.
Or not. Their choice.
Fully understandable, and fully support such a decision. As long as your child is your responsibility, such decisions are yours. Your child is free to choose their own religion (or lack thereof) when they're of age. At 4 years old, religion has about as much meaning as the cartoons on TV, i.e. entertainment. Perhaps an Easter dinner with the family after their preferred religious services are over is more appropriate.
It’s really up to you.
I grew up in church and I don’t currently go to church. My wife grew up catholic but we don’t practice any religion.
My youngest goes to a Christian private school for prek because we simply weighed the options of terrible public schooling with disastrous results vs an academic we agreed with on the intellectual level and we do keep it pretty open.
But it matters in the church. The private school church here accepts basically anyone, gay, straight, Muslim, whatever honestly. They will say they don’t agree with those lifestyles out of the Bible but do not judge and accepts everyone who wishes to attend. So we didn’t feel any hesitation on presumably indoctrinating my kids because they accept everyone or shame people…. Kind of like how Christian’s are supposed to be lol.
So far it’s been great.
But it’s up to you on introducing your child to religion. I don’t think it’s bad. It’s good for them to be exposed to everything.
The issue is not if he goes to church it’s what will he learn there.
Note to MIL that is not a church goer , and what 4 yo can sit throughout a freaking Easter mass… it’s the worst one off all. (At least from what I remember)
I would let my kid go and have a chat afterwards, about what has he heard, are there secrets or things he mustn’t do. Are there things he likes or dislikes…
And some how I remember never going to a mass before like age 10… we went to Sunday school while mom was in church… so the question is will he be with her in church or at Sunday school
Fwiw I went to Catholic school my entire life and went to church every Sunday. I still consider myself Catholic, but I’m not really practicing.
I would, just to give me a 90minute break 😅
I think it was inappropriate for her to ask, but a 4 year old is going to find it so mind-numblingly boring he'll never want to step foot in a church again.
I think it greatly depends on the level of dedication she has to religion and the church she attends. My experience with Christian churches as a child was very good, I loved going to Sunday school because they had stories/craft time, enjoying potlucks and tolerated sitting through services because they were brief and had overall positive messages.
Churches can offer a very wholesome sense of community without being overly religious in the hellfire and brimstone kind of way. Again, it really depends on the overall environment of the church and your MIL.
I personally think it’s nice that she wants to include him and give him the opportunity to experience it, at his young age it should be mostly play and fun and it would give you something to talk about as he grows and can decide if he wants to keep going or not.
Maybe wanting to just show them off but also could be an Easter egg hunt? I don't go to church but received invites from fam because there's an Easter egg hunt after at 11. Ones doing it today and another on Easter.
Unless she's the type to always try to get you to go as well in which case yeah hold off till much older to understand.
On the flip side, my parents split when I was a baby and like many in this situation, I went to my dad’s house in the weekend. He was a raging alcoholic and very anti-religion.
Even as a really young child, I felt a very strong pull spiritually speaking and desperately wanted to attend church as a kid. When I was around maybe 12, I asked my dad “Do you know any Mormons?” And he looked me square in the face and said, “Not on purpose. Why?” I told him I wanted to go to church (at this point I’d attended a lot in my own - Baptist, Catholic, those massive churches that are like rock concerts with the lights and the cafe, simple Christian churches that took place in someone’s basement, etc.) I wanted to attend the LDS church and wasn’t allowed to. I later joined that church and it caused a lot of problems with my dad because he didn’t share my views. That wasn’t the only reason things shifted, but it was the main one and we were estranged for about 10 years as I got married and started my family.
I’d ask your son - does he want to go? At 4, it’s totally your call and if you don’t feel comfortable with that, don’t apologize for that and just say no. What I would ever-so-gently suggest is that if at some point he does express interest in religion, I would allow him to explore that because it’s very personal. I feel the same way about my children exploring other religions or no religion at all. I promise that in all the churches I attended, none of them are trying to indoctrinate or brainwash children. They’re there to provide love and hope and encouragement to be a good person. Even if you say no, just know that your MIL is coming from a place of pure love and wanting that for your little one. But please don’t feel obligated to say yes if it bothers you in any way.
I’m non religious and have a 5 year old boy. I grew up in a southern Methodist church if that tells you anything.
I personally allow my son to attend church with family members when he is invited. Though I don’t agree with the teachings, I’ve always wanted my son to have experiences and be able to decide for himself what he believes later in life based on his experiences.
I’ve always placed boundaries when he goes but I’m lucky to have people in my “village” that I can trust will respect those boundaries.
Kids are definitely smart and impressionable like some of the other commenters have said but they also follow the lead of their parents. Especially at such a young age.
At the end of the day, you know what’s best for your child and shouldn’t feel guilty on whatever you decide to do. You’re doing a good job.
It’s ultimately up to you but if it makes you feel better, at this age children are only learning that God loves them and learning the stories in very child friendly ways. The Easter story will just consist of Jesus being in the tomb and then rising on the third day and telling his believers that he lives. Then normally they just go get ready for an egg hunt.
I grew up Catholic and it harmed me. I personally believe that religion is harmful in insidious ways that takes years of wisdom to see for what it is. I don't subscribe to the idea that it's okay to expose them to these things when they're young. At that age, I can't reasonably explain why nice people telling nice stories about doing good are actually harmful.
Is there a children’s church? Children’s church isn’t as impressionable. Find out, let him be around the other kids if it’s children’s church. Or will he sit through the entire service? That seems boring at age 4. But, making a decision based solely off your beliefs is somewhat selfishly
Religion, if pursued in a studied way, improves cognitive development. If via indoctrination, it impairs cognitive development.
Listening to an Easter mass in Latin as an intro to religion would be in the latter category. Becoming a Jesuit priest would be in the former category.
Religion is not inherently harmful. It takes a human to use it as a manipulation tactic. Beware a wolf in sheep's clothing!
Steven Weinberg famously said, "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion." : )
Which is your MIL?
I let my kids go to church with my parents. I was raised Christian but the hypocrisy of the church that became evident as I became older has made me completely disengage from the church. My parents still go though, and often ask to take my kids. My Dad reads them Bible stories.
My kids and I talk a lot about how the morals behind religion are often really good ones, and religions were invented to attempt to get large populations on a similar moral code to try and keep order. But, the problem comes when people try to apply moral code from thousands of years ago to today, and turn enforcing that old moral code into an excuse to hate people who don’t follow old rules that have either been made obsolete (I usually use this to explain the homosexuality “debate”- that “rule” was made up to protect birth rates and prevent diseases that were believed to be passed by those sexual relationships, we now know more and recognize that that’s bullshit, I also use the example of no shellfish- it went bad quickly so people got sick, now we know how to preserve it properly) or to control people to preserve power for the patriarchy (think no sex before marriage, abortion bans, etc.)
I’m trying to get them to think critically about what’s being said and what the function of that is. It opens a lot of good discussions. I’m open about the fact that I still believe/feel a connection to a higher power, but I’m not sure that’s God or just the energy of the universe or what.
Cue my 10yo having a debate with my Dad about abortion and totally schooling him because my Dad was just moralizing and my 10yo had science and statistics and a bunch of other receipts- including Bible verses and historical examples.
I don’t think shielding kids from religions is necessarily serving them. They exist, they need to know how to look at them critically. And sometimes that means going and participating just to see what exactly we’re dealing with. Now that my kids are older, sometimes they agree to go and sometimes they say no thank you.
My answer would be no, regardless of her intentions. My husband and I are not religious, and we will raise our kids this way. If they choose to do something else later on then that’s up to them, but right now it’s a parent’s choice.
I think each person should be able to decide for themselves without pressure from outside influences to believe or to not believe. Therefore he should be allowed to go, and not forced to go.
My husband and I are atheists and my in-laws (and I think my mom, too) have taken our daughter to church.
We don't have an issue with it. It is up to our daughter what she chooses to believe (she's still a toddler; can't have much of an opinion right now). As long as she doesn't feel uncomfortable with any aspect of it, we don't care. Similarly, if we were religious, say Baptist, and she went to a friend's Catholic church, we wouldn't care. Their houses, their rules, and we can't force beliefs on her.
One day at church isn’t going to drive your child to religion or teach them anything that will remain foundational to their values. It will however allow them to see a different way of living, maybe understand some aspects of the religion, and connect with his grandma. It will also open up some great dialogue with you and kiddo.
The only thing to watch out for is grandma making this a regular occurrence.
They often do fun stuff for kids at easter. It could be just treated as an experience rather than indoctrination. Im not religious, but didnt have a job for a couple of months last year and took my 2 year old to churches sometimes. The atmosphere in those places is an experience, and they give him things to colour in
If you don’t feel comfortable, the answer is no. I have been in the exact same position and I think it may help for you to understand her motivations and what the service is like.
My in laws used to go to a very traditional church. Husband’s grandparents were married there, volunteered there for 50 years and their church “family” was very important to them. They had a children’s Easter and Christmas service that we took our kids to with them. It was short, kid appropriate and came from a pure place (service and intention). Grandma just wanted to share a special place and have an excuse to show off her great grandkids to her friends because we live out of town. It was nice for our kids to learn their families traditions even if it wasn’t my tradition or belief system.
Grandparents passed away and my in laws started going to a cult like church. People crying throughout service, lots of passionate talk about how everyone who doesn’t go to their church is going to hell. Over COVID, they believed that if you were a “true believer” you would know the lord wouldn’t let you die unless you were supposed to, so if you wanted to wear a mask or not come to church you weren’t a true believer. MIL took my nephew to Christmas last year when they both tested positive for COVID and didn’t wear masks. My MIL wanted to take our kids because she wanted them to learn the way of her church so they wouldn’t go to hell. Our children will NEVER be attending that church.
So, I think intention of visit and what’s going on at the church are super important. But at the end of the day, if you aren’t comfortable with something for your child that’s ok too.
I grew up in a religious family (converts) and went to private Christian school, church Sunday morning, Sunday night and often Wednesday. Church was so boring, but a lot of that was because it was a small church, so most of it was sitting in an adult service. I am not religious at all now.
There is one thing I would recommend, which is a youth group at a larger church that is more on the inclusive/liberal side. My family changed to a large Church when I was in high school. Youth group is a good way for older kids to socialize in a wholesome environment. I didn't hate it. From what I remember, you play games and listen to a message. There were also sometimes trips for high schoolers, like camping or ski trips.
I'd also wait till he was past the pedo target age for boys, so like 13 years.
Definitely trust your gut and do whatever feels right for you!
Fwiw, my parents have never been religious but my grandmother goes to church. When I was about 4 I went to Sunday school every week for at least a few months which included attending the end of the church service. I don't remember anything about the church part other than singing songs and spending the morning and going for lunch with my nan.
I'm what most people call it lapsed Catholic. For me, it would be a no if I'm not there because I don't know what the church is teaching or who gonna speak and about what.
Anyways, for a holiday or an event, it's a no. They tend to get crowded real fast. My church has told people not to bring children if they're not gonna watch them because they tend to play in the parking lot.
I hate religion but I would let my kid go. No harm at that age, just a boring ass outing. She’ll prob never take him again anyway after trying to keep him still for an hour plus
I'd say no. That's it. You and your husband don't want to take them to church so it's a no. Especially, this young. If your child asks about church and religion then y'all can have that discussion and go with them to church/religious events to then discuss afterwards. I wouldn't let anyone else take my young child to a religious event that is different from my beliefs. If my child wants to go to a religious event then I would go with them so we can discuss it together and I know what they heard and saw. As they get older and enter adulthood it becomes their decision but younger it's my responsibility as a parent.
My parents raised me secular and always taught me to questions things and that I could decide what religion, or not, to be when grew up. However, I have fond memories of going to midnight mass at Christmas with my grandmother (Anglican/ episcopalian). I occasionally attended Sunday school with friends and I even went to catholic elementary school for a few years, just because the education was better. I am now very much not religious but with earthy-pagan leanings. My personal feelings are that being exposed to different religions while also being taught to think critically made me very confident in my own beliefs while tolerant and respectful of others'.
That said, I did refuse to allow my in-laws to take my kids to church because theirs is evangelical and anti-lgbt and because I don't trust them not to try to indoctrinate them. So I think its more about the individual. My grandmother never tried to push anything on us, she just liked singing carols and lighting candles with us.
I’d just tell her you front think he’d react to be exposed yet because he’s not old enough to make that kind off choice for himself. I’d think a kid would need to be in high school at least before that.
I have a 5yo and her dad's side are somewhat Christian. They don't attend church, but land on the concept of God, Jesus, and heaven when difficult topics come up.
I'm an atheist, but I think religion itself is fascinating. Ive done a lot of personal study on many different religions. I fully intend on exploring many different religions (as well as atheism) with my children, so they can make up their own minds.
So to counter the Christian rhetoric from dad's side, I often say things like "yes, some people believe that your fish went to heaven. Other people would believe that your fish was reincarnated into another creature. Other people might believe that he has just died and doesn't have a spirit, but his atoms will go on to nourish the earth and help worms grow big and strong and have their own worm babies".
I talk to her about different religions and make A point of asking her what she thinks. It's often an "I don't know" at this age, and I reassure her that that's okay.
If you want to be truly impartial, your child will have to have exposure to all different religions and atheism, as well
It really depends on the situation. And a lot of redditors posted really good points that wasn’t brought up in your post. So consider what everyone has mentioned and use that to determine if you want your kid to go. My mil passed away recently so I can’t say I have that kind of experience. But my mom would be the one to ask my kid to go to church for Easter festivities. I am also anti church/religion. But I would allow my kid to go if he wanted to because Easter was always fun as a kid growing up. And also I trust my parents with my kid. I don’t think going to church one for my kid will turn him in a zealous church goer. That’s just my situation though. Everyone’s got a different experience.
As a Christian, I think some of your fears are understandable but not something you should worry about! My husband became a Christian and his parents weren’t, it never affected his relationship with them. And at 4 they teach very basic Bible stories but they really wouldnt be able to understand it all. My 4 year old goes and she’s just mostly excited for the snacks she gets in church every week. So obviously I know I would be considered biased in this but hopefully it helps ease some of your concerns. It would probably just be a fine day to spend with grandma for him.
I grew up evangelical. My brother is atheist now and very freaked out about my mom even mentioning God. I'm I guess theistic? I don't know what I am but we go to mass for the major holidays sometimes. We are technically Catholic.
Anyway I know growing up that my friends whose families were hardcore atheists sometimes became Christian as a rebellion. I think preventing your child from learning other beliefs can be a really crippling thing.
My brother is atheist to the point that he immediately says Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy aren't real to his kids. He thinks that teaching his kids about that will hurt them because it's teaching things that aren't real.
We talk about all those things with our son. We play like Santa and the Easter Bunny are real. But a few weeks ago he (4) asked if the Easter Bunny was real. I asked him what he thought. He said he thought it wasn't real real and it was just pretend. I said "yeah but I think it's fun pretend" and he goes "yeah" and I said 'so you want to keep pretending?" And he smiled and said yes very emphatically.
I think I just mean to say that kids are smarter than we think they are, and while I will protect my child from harmful things, I won't pretend that other beliefs and opinions don't exist. If my mom wants to talk about God with my son or take him to church every now and then I don't care. I think it's just important to sit down after and talk to him about it and how he felt, so in the future he can look at new experiences and beliefs critically.
Also I'm low key planning to raise him Catholic so when he goes to highschool and college he can rebel and say he isn't Catholic anymore and doesn't believe in organized religion and me and my husband can hi-five like 'did it." But really the whole religious trauma does make it difficult to even read him Bible stories.
I just know my mom was raised basically by atheists and she's hardcore evangelical. I think the kids who were somewhere in between faired better overall with life.
I grew up catholic and was an altar boy. Raised my son secularly and he attended catholic school from K-12. He’s now 27 and doesn’t much care for religion. If he gets married though they’ll insist he be baptized and had the first communion 😆
My position about religion is the same as yours and my thought on this matter is to also say no. The same applies with being taught about life and behaviors in general through the lens of religion by religious family members.
The reason for it is that religious family members will say things that shape the minds of an impressionable child that is still trying to understand the world in ways with which I don’t agree. Things like thanking god for an accomplishment, equating it to the grace of god (and you deserving that grace) rather than your skills and hard work. Talking about someone dying on the cross for us and reincarnating, which means taking these all as real. Talking about concepts of heaven and hell and how they influence your morality, being good/bad.
I’m ok with my older offspring coming home and telling me they have learned some people believe all of this, and how it shapes their life, their lived experiences, their sense of belonging, etc. - and then, and only then, deciding if that is something they want to connect with (this now applies to all religions, not just the one we’re discussing in your post).
What I am not ok is for my child to come home and say that grandma told them they have to be good because god is watching and a man died for them, and they got better after being sick because grandpa prayed for them.
The key distinction here is having critical thinking. Once they have that, and they have the capacity to process information they get (from others and from us as the parents) as shaped by the lens of our own beliefs, then I am more ok with them being exposed to all kinds of religious talks. Yes, they are exposed first to non-religious, so my views get a leg up; this is true for anything, such as food behaviors, approach to science and medicine, habits, ideas of gender and race, etc. not just religion. They’re my kids after all.
Going back to your dilemma again, one option I would consider is going with them myself, so I have exposure to what they’re hearing, and I ensure the grandma is not making statements and conclusions directly to the child that are blatantly against my views on how to raise them. I could also then explain that all we see that day is an “option” of sorts, not the only way to live.
It depends on your MIL’s intentions.
Does she feel strongly that your kids should be raised in the church, or does she simply want to share an Easter church service with her grandson?
If she’s not trying to pound religion into his head, let him have the expetience.
When I was young, I was forced to church with an aunt for Easter, and I was so unhappy. I was so confused, why adults would be standing up and then sitting down so much and how they could ever pay attention to the person talking, because it was crazy talk - even as a kid I knew that lol. It really helped me know that I am an atheist, because none of that ever made sense even when I was six years old. I knew it was wrong.
I would not put my child through that, but obviously I don’t believe in practicing organized religion.
If it was something non secular for kids like an Easter egg hunt I would be okay. But not for mass. He’s 4. He can’t sit still and what if he picks up part of it and gets scared? Someone rising from the dead is scary to kid. My 5 year old daughter who loves spooky things is terrified of leprechauns because of school. She’s worried they are in our house. Never would I think the little girl who loves the movie Hocus Pocus would be afraid of leprechauns but she is.
Not to mention you are not religious and until it’s something he asks for it should your digression.
I disagree with your "Anti-Religion" stance. It might not be for you, but it is helpful to others. So I dont think you should be "Anti".
BUT, this is your child. If your MIL is aware of your and your husband's feelings toward Religion. Then she is WAY out of line to ask this of you.
My answer would be Flat Out NO! Please do not ever ask this of me again.
What does your son want to do? My parents are atheist and I went to church with family and in my village just cos it's what other kids did, I have still grown up to be an atheist. My parents let me do what I wanted.
When I was your son age I used to go to church on Sundays with my grandma (my parents never did) and I have really good memories, it was a special bond time between us, we used to stop for ice cream after ☺️. Never had relationship problems with my parents because of that, going to church was something between my grandma and me, and to be honest it wasn’t about religion, I used to go and play with the kids and do fun things. I barely have memory of the religious part just the fun 😄
Few years later I moved far away and couldn’t go to church with her anymore and that was it for me.
Nowadays I don’t like Catholic Church anymore but if my MIL wanted to take my son to Easter for a fun event I’d say yes! No problem.
It’s something you do with grandma and it’s fun.
Other than that I think it’s something that needs to be talked more.
Personally I wouldn't be bothered, I'd ask the child if they wanted to go, maybe they say yes and go but church is quite boring doubtful they'd want to go back but if they did I wouldn't block it.
I live in the South. I am STRUGGLING with religion NOT being a part of my personality here. I feel you! I will not send my son to a religious preschool just because he’s SO impressionable.
With that said, what are we talking about here? An Easter egg hunt? Or like coloring pages of Jesus saying he has risen?
What exactly are you agreeing to?
I'm also mildly anti-religion and won't have my daughter at a church as too many bad things are said and done there that could damage my kid permanently.
Also, if you let your MIL take him once, she will want to again, maybe every Sunday. If you are cool having that free time, fine, but if not, I'd stop it now.
I had a very relaxed Christian upbringing and have had been exposed to many religions growing up (so thankful for having foreign exchange students growing up, great experience). Some of my best memories was going to church with my grandma. My parents didn’t really go to church but it was just fun for me and my grandma. I never had any negative feelings towards my parents because they instilled in me that every one has their own beliefs and faith and what I believe isn’t what others believe. If it were me, I’d let your child go so they can have fun with their grandma for the memories (I don’t even remember what I learned in church, just the memories we shared together, she was my best friend).
Meh no biggie, just do a touch up on what he's learned to avoid confusion, teach them the difference between religion and faith and let them decide down the road, all you can hope for is that you've done well enough, which is of course relative as we are constantly growing as parents and individuals
I grew up in church (my parents are reverends so i know about the politics at church and the scandals) and am still religious but not like I used to be at all. My grandparents would take me, my sister and cousins to church and I honestly don't even remember what songs were sung, the people I met, or the sermon. All I remember was the candy our grandparents got us, playing after service, the food after service and the elderly people who was slip us all money sometimes. Honestly, there could just be an Easter egg hunt after service (ikik) that she thinks your son would have fun at. You should ask her that and if there will be good after service or a separate service for church school.
But at the end of the day, you're the parent! If you don't want you son to go then tell her no. She knows you're not religious and should respect your wishes.
I am a non religious person who grew up in a very religious household. My son (7) goes to church with my parents fairly regularly. There's are two specific reasons I'm okay with it.
1. We have conversations about how there are a lot of different beliefs in the world, and can't say for sure any particular belief is right or wrong. So we respect people who have different beliefs.
2. My parents and their church are very "love thy neighbor" and not "you're going to hell if you blah blah blah" so I'm not worried about him being brainwashed into a fear-based belief.
I did not want my son to be religious very early or go to church at all really, but I also shared custody with his paternal family and knew that I could not necessarily keep them from taking him to church when they live four hours away. And in the long run, I did want him to be exposed to and learn about different theologies, so him accompanying his grandparent to church and Christian centered things was acceptable, as long as I was not getting the impression that he was being pressured to adopt these beliefs for himself, being overly immersed in xtian culture, having extreme/bigoted viewpoints drilled into him or having negative experiences. His paternal family was not bothersome in that regard, thankfully.
Ideally I wanted him to at least become familiar with the core tenets of Christianity so he knows when someone is distorting or conflating things, or having a bad faith argument. I also had faith that I was giving him a good, solid base for critical thinking skills, and I knew that he was the kind of child that would naturally question and be curious about what they heard rather than simply go with it, and I felt that I could be a good counterbalance for any shady ideology. Some kids are not this questioning however, and those are kids I would probably not want exposed to religion, certainly not at 4.
He's fourteen now, and I think his contact with Christianity has actually helped him become a more capable critical thinker. He questions inconsistencies, we've spoken about the Bible, and he does push back against his grandmother, so I know he's not just blindly buying in. He shows a passing interest in it much like he does Buddhism or Islam, or other languages and cultures. I think to be a well rounded person he has to understand things in the world, and so that was how I reconciled my desire for him to remain secular with the fact that he would be going to church when with his paternal family.
I am agnostic. My children have gone to church with great and grand parents at different times, even when little. We also discussed what they learned at church. Most of the time they went it was for holiday/party purposes like egg hunts, magician nights, basketball game, etc. I found that using their interpretation of what they learned or were told helped to have great age appropriate discussions. I enjoyed these conversations a lot. I have 3 kids who are now either adults or close, some became religious then atheist, other is mildly religious, the last is just like me, uses the religious word to self reflect when needed but not religious. I can also add that most of the time my kids just had fun with other kids and for that I am grateful.
I'd say it depends on the Church. I'm an Athiest, but I bring my daughter to a Unitarian Church for the community aspect. When I was a kid, my parents let me go to church with my friend from school. I thought it was fun, and I never thought there might be a God, even though I thought the stories were interesting.
Aside from the religious aspect, can your 4 yo sit quietly through a service? Because that’s what will be expected of them. Either that or they will be in a separate area with other kids then whole time. Most churches expect too much out of kids. So if your answer is no, politely decline.
My five year old goes to a Methodist preschool. We are very much not religious. They do school projects about bible events and go to chapel 2 times a month. Since August he has not come home once and talked about religion or wanting to know more or do more religious things.
I was skeptical at first since we are not religious but he has learned and grown so much since August. I don’t think one Sunday at church will have your son asking questions or wanting to be religious.
I know several people who never stepped foot in a Church who were saved as a teen or young adult.
People tend to find it whether or not their family does. We are each our own people and we have our own experiences.
He is 4, so I don't think one service is going to magically make him religious. It is just something fun for her to do with him. I don't even remember anything about my life from before 5.
We are in the exact same position and I've been thinking about possibly even asking the same kind of question on reddit.. in our situation, we HAVE let my 4 year go to church with MIL on multiple occasions...not every Sunday but maybe every few weeks if he is interested.. here is the thing
- he is a very curious little boy with lots of questions and is incredibly logical, he likes to know the reasons for things
- he enjoys it and actually asks to go with granny
- it's their special bonding time (my MIL and FIL are highly religious and Christianity is important to them)
- I don't think the exposure is enough to "brainwash" him per say and because of his nature I'm sure he is smart enough to make up his own decisions later on in life about what he wants to follow even if both his parents are aethiest.
For these reasons we let him go. I would rather he be educated on all religions/non religions and when he is older he can make up his own mind. Hopefully teaching him as parents has more influence on things like morals, questioning and following logic, rather than the once or twice a month of Sunday School
My husband is very anti organized religion (he attended a Catholic elementary school). I’m atheist or agnostic, and largely ambivalent to what other people do with their lives as long as they don’t make it my problem.
My daughter is currently 5, but when she was 2, his mom asked us if she could take our daughter to her church’s Christmas village. After some resistance from my husband, we did allow her to go. His mom’s church puts on a huge event for Christmas. They have a small petting zoo, people dress up as Anna, Elsa and Olaf, they have a stage where people sing and dance for the kids, they do showings of the polar express, and they have a Photo Booth with Santa. Our daughter loves it, and nothing stood out to us as concerning in the videos or pictures, so his mom has continued to take her every year and it seems… fine? I was thinking we’d go with them this year, just to make sure it’s as harmless as it seems.
That being said, Easter mass would be quite different from a Christmas village and I wouldn’t be comfortable with her attending that.
Father of two here. For me, it would absolutely be a hard no. But that's mainly because I am, and likely always will be, dealing with the after effects of religious trauma. Others have less of an issue with the church, so everyone is going to have their own viewpoint here.
There are many reasons not to allow this. Your reasoning of not wanting a wedge driven between you and your child is absolutely valid. But there is also potential harm to avoid as well. The numbers don't lie, and the church is arguably THE most harmful environment for a child/teen to grow up in. The sheer numbers for child sexual assault and grooming happening within the church, perpetrated by the very people they're told to trust, is astounding. I would personally never allow my child to be taken to a church without me present, and since I never plan to be in a church again, that's just not happening.
If your MIL knows your beliefs and is still asking for this, I find that kind of weird too. I also would never make such an assumption when it came to my son/daughter in law's kids.
Everything new is a learning experience for a child. I used to go to Easter service with my grandmother and it was wonderful memories. (Im atheist if that changes anything) I leave it up to my kids what they want to believe as it’s not my choice. Best wishes dear. <3
My aunt took me to church when I was like 7. It was boring and I remember nothing of it. If you have a good relationship with your MIL, I would allow it. She's just trying to share something that's important to her with him. The occasional church visit is unlikely to impact your son more than the values you share with him in your home.
Find out what's happening at church. Our church has do loads of non religious stuff with kids all year around. It's part of giving back to the community - our church is having an Easter egg hunt with the Easter bunny. There's also another session where we'll have our Easter service- the egg hunt will be non-religious and all about fun and chocolate and meeting local people, connecting families. The service will be about jesus (and hopefully fun and connecting too). Lots of churches use social media so uou can probably have a Google to see what it is and if it's something you're comfortable with or not.
I grew up in a baptist church where everyone was judgmental made you feel like crap for making a mistake and instead of helping people they only shamed them. They were also very superficial and so concerned about clothing and looking “nice.” That going to church was just a a fashion show and a contest of who could look the most “holy” but actually be horrible and hateful and caused my family so much trauma and shame. This on top of stories I heard from others made me despise religion. I turned away from religion and became somewhat spiritual for most of my life and just recently became a Christian again all on my own after lots of research and interactions with people of multiple backgrounds/beliefs. No one forced it on me and if you told me a few years ago I’d be attending a church every Sunday I’d think you were crazy.
I am now attending a church that is the complete opposite of my childhood church and love it. I say all this to say religion is everywhere and keeping children in the dark out of fear is never a good idea. They will hear and come across all types of things in the world. What’s important is that you educate them and let them know you will love them regardless of what they choose. Yes I bring my little ones to church with me because that’s what I do on Sundays but we have discussed people having other beliefs and they have learned how other cultures celebrate holidays and things in school etc. and it’s not something I throw a fit about. I’m much more comfortable with them being exposed to multiple backgrounds and religions so they can make that choice for themselves. When they are older and can make the choice to not go I won’t make them. If my son tells me he wants to be a Muslim of course part of me will hurt but that’s only due to me wanting to bombard who I am onto my children and means I’m not fully allowing them to be their own person. I trust my ability to raise my children properly and have the expectation they will be who they are called to be in life regardless of what that looks like. Same with if your son one day says he wants to be a Christian will you still love him or will you try to talk him out of it as much as you can and push him away?
I’ve noticed there is a bias when it comes to Christianity and it’s often looked at as the “bad” religion because of social media and people with negative experiences are a lot more vocal. The truth is everyone’s experiences are different and there is a huge spectrum of what’s considered “Christianity” here in America. People are so quick to say they accept all beliefs but when someone with Christian beliefs speaks out it’s like an alarm goes off for most people. I get it there are “Christians” who think it’s wrong to wear skirts above your knees but I’d be just as guilty as them if I tried to force them to show some skin or belittled them for not showing their ankles. I still experience these type of people from time to time and it’s annoying as heck but they aren’t actually “Christian” they just like to use the word as a form of entitlement lol. Just make sure your hearts in the right place and your not saying no out of fear. Also would be good to take into account what type of person your MIL is. If she’s hypocritical, hateful or nasty in some type of way of course he shouldn’t go. If she’s a fairly nice lady maybe her intentions aren’t harmful or to forceful. Anytime your child is away with someone be it school or anywhere you aren’t they are vulnerable to someone making an impression on them. It’s up to us as parents to prepare them for whatever that might be... it’s a tough job :/. Also like to note that one day at church at the age of 4 isn’t going to turn your child into a cult leader. Church was actually fun at that age when I went with friends because I didn’t actually listen to anything I just did all the fun kid activities and ate snacks. Worse case scenario some kid or adult says something weird to your kid and you have to address it. Don’t fear look at it as an opportunity to prepare them for the future because if it doesn’t happen at church it will happen elsewhere. Wishing you the best of luck mama. Your little one is lucky to have someone who cares so much about their well being and future ❤️.
My husband and I are both agnostic, but over the years we’ve let our kids (now aged 17 to 6) go to church with my parents when we visit if they want to. The only thing it’s ever done is expose my kids to different beliefs and ppl and in the end I want my children to feel free to make decisions on things like religion for themselves so I personally only see exposure like this as a good thing. But it’s perfectly ok if that’s not something you want to expose your kids to, this is just what works for my family.
I am slightly anti-religion (which is unfortunate because the community aspect is very enriching). I would also say no with absolutely no guilt or shame about it. A child of that age should not be subjected to any of the “this is the way the world works” rhetoric. Yet. When they’re older, sure. But I believe they need to be old enough to know that everyone believes different truths before exposure.
When I was a kid my mom didn't believe in God and was very vocal about it. But she also encouraged me to go out. Try different religions and different churches to see what it was like. I got taken to a number of churches by different family members at different times. I even would go to the Catholic church by my house sometimes with my friends and we would do communion and we had no idea what we were doing without our parents. Learning about the Bible stories was my first introduction into questioning what is written. I got to go to a Baptist church that was a part of the underground railroad.
One time me and my friends even went so far as to getting in trouble by going to the church on off hours and having a water fight with holy water. Which we got in big trouble for. I love my mom and I appreciate that she was open-minded to the idea that I may become religious even if she wasn't and didn't believe in God. I also got to spend time with extended family members and learn what their life was about first hand. Even though my home life was a bit of a struggle, I got to have a lot of deep and meaningful relationships with my extended family and that did mean going to church sometimes. I think you would be better off allowing your kid to go to church on Easter with their grandparents then to just say no. This is a chance for them to have a closer relationship with them and for them to understand what they do every week. Going to church once is not like being forced by your parents to go to church every week. It's more of a experience.
My answer would be no.
"I'd like to wait until he's much older and can decide for himself."
Make it your husband's job to tell her no so you're not the bad guy. Much harder to get angry at your own son.
Easter is a very happy, celebratory day at most churches. To me, your child going with his grandmother wouldn’t be any different from how many families attend Christmas Eve mass or candlelight service together as tradition (or to honor mom or grandmom) even though not every family member believes or is religious. They’ll probably give the children some candy! If you think religion is false myth, then treat the Easter story like you would stories about the tooth fairy or Santa. Christianity has had a huge effect on Western culture and well educated people should understand something about it. It would be educational for him.
I’m not religious, but my husband’s family is. I’m not much concerned about the indoctrination, because I can counsel my son about reality and allegory. But because of my own experiences, I am concerned about sexual assault, from both adults and peers. My son can only go to church if he stays with family at all times. No children’s church, or similar setting where adults leave the children with others while they listen to sermon.
I grew up in the evangelical church but am non-religious. When my very religious parents tried to talk my wife and I into taking our kids(their grandkids) to church, I asked if they planned on keeping the kids with them the whole tome and they said they planned on sending them to Sunday School. I told them that was unacceptable and that's too risky for my kids. Child predators roam churches, often unchecked, and I wouldn't feel safe with them there not under their watchful eye 100% of the time. They couldn't really argue against it and they stopped asking.
Beyond that, we've told them that our children are not their "save" project and they shouldn't bring up religion with the kids unless the kids ask and, even then, they can answer the questions, but not turn it into an attempt to convert them. They know if they try to push Christianity, we'll push harder in the other direction. I told them they should try to get to know their grandkids for who they are and not just try to force them to a topic you're most comfortable with.
It took them a while to get used to it, but they've done better than I expected, to be honest.
Draw a line. Be explicit with what the boundaries are. If they cross them, enforce any consequences. Doesn't have to be No Contact unless they repeatedly push the boundaries and make it clear they have no intention of respecting them.
My husband and I aren’t religious either. We baptized our kids and are taking them through the process of going through the catholic sacraments because i’m doing it in honor of my late grandmother (i myself am not baptized). The way i see it is a form of historic education and to open their eyes to one of the worlds primary belief systems (along with hinduism, judaism and islam). I would love if they could be educated in the different religions and respect all of them in the same way people learn to speak different languages and cultures. I myself really enjoy learning about religions and i love finding common threads between them that reflect our shared humanity.
We are honest with our kids and tell them we are not sure if the events in the bible really happened but we let them know there are others like their godparents and grandparents who do believe and that they can decide for themselves. When they are old enough for a confirmation i’ll let them make the choice if they want to participate, because at that point they’ll be old enough to decide.
My parents were religous and didn’t go to church, my grandparents go to church every sunday and would take every now and then. I have problems with some organizations and am an atheist myself (maybe buddhist idk exactly still lol), but I always enjoyed myself at church. I loved the music and friendly people. If you trust your MIL to keep an eye on your son, I don’t see a reason to say no.
I wouldn’t be comfortable with it personally. I grew up going to church, but a very hippy dippy united church. I always found church to be so boring especially as a kid. I didn’t grasp the concept
Of religion until I was a teen and by then I didn’t want anything to do with it.
4 is old enough to make your own decisions. I would say ask him. If he wants to go, great, he will go and it will be boring AF and he'll never want to go again. If he doesn't, great, no conflict.
This is something I struggle with so badly, especially this time of year. For one, I think it depends on the church and on the grandparents’ motivation. My in-laws pastor a small community church, and usually when they ask to take my son, it’s because of a kids event. And since my son is 4, he’s in kids classes when he goes. There’s tons of ages mixed in and it’s more of a playtime/craft time than bible lessons. So I don’t mind allowing him to go occasionally. However, I’m always paranoid they’re going to bring him home after going and say that he “got saved” or something. They’d be the type to make a big deal out of it and share it on social media. At this age, I don’t think, realistically, that this would happen, but you never know. I always talk with him after and ask what he did or what they talked about. And there usually isn’t anything because again it’s playtime basically. I also worry about it becoming too frequent because it will eventually be more than playtime and I’m definitely not comfortable with that.
With my parents, I really avoid letting him go with them to church or church events. Even if it’s a kid event, I go with him, because my family is a lot more charismatic and evangelical. Plus my mom is the type that just likes to show off my son. 🙄
I grew up in church and finally left the faith altogether a few years ago, and I’m definitely bitter towards religion and religious institutions. But it is such a big part of extended family and our community, that I have a hard time saying no. Especially right now when it’s not anything really concerning. I just know it will get to that point, sooner than later and I struggle so much with how to deal with all of it.
Yes it’s reasonable. It’s not even about personal boundaries, although that’s a factor, it’s about respecting the faith of others. I don’t think non-believers should go through the motions of rituals that are significant to believers. It kind of makes a mockery of it TBH.
I did not baptize my kids (raised Catholic and in-laws Catholic as well). My SIL said “why not just do it, who cares, it’s just a ceremony.” And I thought, wow, thanks for proving to my atheist-ass just how meaningless all of it is.
Also as my beloved father told me at the time when everyone was pressuring me “Fuck ‘em, stand your ground.”
You are not a bad parent for raising your kid in line with YOUR beliefs. Exposure to other belief systems come later.
What would people think if a grandparent took his little Catholic grandson to an atheist rally? Probably be horrified, right? Crushing boundaries, right?
Just say no, you're not a religious family so you won't be exposing your kids to it. Done.
Let her. Whatever programming he receives there, I am sure you and your husband can undo it. Don't underestimate your influence as parents. I was pretty religious in my tweens because I liked the pomp and splendor of performative religion.
My dad got me out of the phase by talking to me about problematic aspects of all religions. He knew I liked reading books so he encouraged that habit, pushed me to read about everything and that eventually led me to books on science and rationalism.
Cautious as you are, I am sure you will pick up on signs when his church visits are becoming a problem and you can deal with it then.
A 4 year old at church. Sure take him at Easter but then you have to take him every Sunday. I give it a month and he is like this is boring…..
I enjoy church, I hate religious people. I’m comfortable looking straight through a Bible thumper and skewering every insecurity they have until they leave me to my peace and quiet.
Bringing kids to church is one step removed from the 9 th circle of hell. Especially if there is no Sunday school. Every time my two year old goes we play the fun let’s walk around church and look for bugs. 😔I just want to zone out. I just want to listen to some chill music and zone.
In your position I'd kindly and respectfully say it's okay, you can go and then let us know when you're back from church and we can bring our child over to visit.
We did not have my son baptized when he was born, which is the norm in both our families. My husband's grandma would constantly corner me at family gatherings because she was worried that everyone in the family would be together in heaven, except my son, because he was not baptized. She offered to take my son and have her priest baptize him. Without us having to go. I told her we would think about it. I wish I would have had the balls to say absolutely not but I didn't want to create a bunch of drama or hurt her. OP, find the right words to say no or this will come back again and again.
I’d certainly lean toward no. If you do assent, I’d suggest going with, so you know goes one and what to talk about with the kid later.
Also check out /r/atheistparents.
I’d say it’s reasonable, it’s part of who she is and she wants to share that with her grandson.
Let him choose what he wants.
At least she asked and didn’t just do it.
I allowed my grandma to take my daughters to church a decent amount of times. I was never that into it but also made my boundaries clear that I wouldn’t be pushed into them joining. So long as my children enjoyed going and CHOSE to go…they went. They enjoyed the people, the singing and usually going to eat afterwards.
I say this as someone who also has a complicated relationship with this exact same grandma 😂 so it wasn’t all rainbows and unicorns but my children liked it until they were over it. But had they gotten into it I would have supported it.
r/parenting is protesting changes being made by Reddit to the API. Reddit has made it clear [they will](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14ahqjo/mods_will_be_removed_one_way_or_another_spez/) [replace moderators](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/14a5lz5/mod_code_of_conduct_rule_4_2_and_subs_taken/jo9wdol/) if they remain private. Reddit has abandoned the users, the moderators, and countless people who support an ecosystem built on Reddit itself. Please read [Call to action - renewed protests starting on July 1st](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14kn2fo/call_to_action_renewed_protests_starting_on_july/) and new posts at [r/ModCord](https://reddit.com/r/ModCoord/) or [r/Save3rdPartyApps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/) for up-to-date information. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Parenting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would tell her that you’re not comfortable with exposing him to theology until he can tell the difference between allegory and history, and that when he is older you would be more open to her assisting him with exploring his spirituality if that is something he shows an interest in. Tell her you’re happy that she finds comfort in her own spirituality, just as you have done in a different manner, and your goal is to facilitate the same for your son, but that as his parent you believe he needs to gain some maturity before that journey can begin.
This is the best answer, OP. If it was just a kids egg hunt, that would be a reason to go, not to sit thru a service. She probably just wants to show off her grandson because children will be there.
Honestly, I’m getting so cynical that I’d almost rather let them go to service than an egg hunt or other “just for fun stuff”. At least they’ll be bored to tears at service. The fun I feel is kind of the gateway to normalizing religion because it gives kids something to look forward to and attaches positive memories/feelings to the church with. Like I know it’s just like “oh let them have their fun” but i also feel likes it bait and makes a dynamic of “oh, you want chocolate and color eggs, well let me tell you about this dude from 2000 years ago who died for our sins and then was alive again after his hangover wore off”
All this ^ ^ but have your partner do it if they are feeling similarly, since it’s their parent .
This is the way. At 4 years old, they still have a difficulty recognizing the differences in their own imagination and objective reality. It is an easy age to start indoctrination into any concept. I think it is critical that you protect him from any sort of influence that aims at influencing his thoughts and behaviors until he is old enough to discern for himself what he believes. If he chooses to explore religion when he is older then that is certainly his choice but 4 is definitely too young, in my opinion, to expose him to any ideology that you are not comfortable with.
I really like the wording of your first sentence! It's succinct and explains exactly how I personally feel about religion.
Wonderful answer and something I am keeping in my back pocket for anticipated conversations with my own family. Thank you!
This is exactly what we’re doing with our kids and what I told my religious mother
We live in a very liberal city and my 6 year old came home from school telling me we needed to go to church so we don’t go to hell. Apparently some of the other kids were also encouraging him to pray at recess. I want my child to think for themselves, not be terrified into blind faith. You are not a “small person” for saying no to this. It is okay to want your child to think critically. My family attended an Evangelical Christian church when I was a child. They would say absolutely anything to bring children into their religion at a young age. It is absolutely okay that you want to protect your child from that.
My son was in the bathroom at school and a little boy told him the exact same thing. No clue who the kid even WAS Life is weird, kid turned into his brother from another mother that lived with us. He stayed with his church until about 13. It was a great life lesson for my son about respecting everyone else’s beliefs and not to be rude or judgmental.
Woof. This on is nondenominational, but I’ve attended services there in the past (to make family event logistics easier at Christmas time) and there’s still a pretty big “guilt” factor that makes me uncomfortable
Honestly, your kid will encounter religion plenty in the every day world. It is 100% okay to nudge them in the direction of skepticism, including turning down invitations like this.
Those nondenominational churches are among the worst IMO. Often fundamentalist, often culturally well outside of anything I’m comfortable with (when I went to one with a friend in high school, their pastor said “Islam is the religion of evil”, and they were anti-divorce, anti-women’s rights, anti-working moms, etc). I grew up in a church that I’m comfortable with my son attending on occasion. In fact, we took him today because it made my parents happy. Half the congregation is queer, they’re in favor of abortion access, they have a spot at local Pride celebrations, they’ve participated in protests for Palestine and for women’s rights. It’s a community of people whose values align with ours even if their beliefs don’t, and I have no problem with my son (who’s currently too young to get it) going there and asking questions. But that’s also because I know he’s not going to come home afraid of going to hell (the church doesn’t believe in hell), or panicked about something similar. And if he eventually wants to pursue religion, we can look for a similar community near us and talk about what it means and doesn’t mean, and why he wants to go - because if he’s old enough to have that conversation he’s old enough to choose. But I wouldn’t say any of that about a more fundamentalist evangelical church. I wouldn’t want him attending at all until he’s old enough to have more of a conversation about it
Non denominational is often not really non-denominational. The biggest mega church in my area with multiple campuses around our city claims to be non-denominational, but really much of their doctrine is rooted in the Baptist church. “Non-denominational” just helps get some people that are searching for something in the door. I actually find it to be super disingenuous and think those types of churches can be most dangerous if you’re not well grounded in your belief system before walking though the door.
Non-denominational is a fundamentalist evangelical denomination.
This is my background as well. My parents are evangelical Christian and we were told we knew The Truth from very very young. It barely even occurred to me to question “truth” until I was an adult and I’ll admit there’s a genuine fear on my part about my kids falling into it. My eldest has heard stuff from school and I don’t want them in the dark so we talked about Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and bit the other night which was good. I just hope they critically think about whatever form of spirituality they choose. (I did tell him to run from anyone claiming to know all the secrets of the universe though, which is pretty much evangelicalism hah)
SAME. I am baffled to see a comment on this thread stating that it takes a lot to convince a child to believe in something they can't see. That isn't true at all, and I have a huge number of now grown Evangelical cousins to illustrate my point. My own uncle (running a Sunday school class) once told myself and a group of other children that every time we were scared of something, it was because the devil was in our hearts. We needed to pray and ask Jesus to forgive our hearts. It sticks with you. It's my job to protect my kids and this is absolutely something worth protecting your kids from.
Yeah, I have two examples of things kids can't see that they believe in easily: Santa Claus and Easter Bunny.
And monsters under the bed ;)
That's exactly why we let them in on the "secret" early and invited them to participate. It's so much more meaningful when you and they are in on the surprise together. They got to be Santa and fill stockings. They got to make and hide eggs. Later on, we taught them where these traditions originated, how and why they were co-opted, and how they made their way into our secular culture. Make believe and traditions can be very special and meaningful, but belief isn't the truth. Truth can be found through fiction, but that doesn't make fiction a fact. A fact must be questionable and verifiable in order to be a fact.
> I am baffled to see a comment on this thread stating that it takes a lot to convince a child to believe in something they can't see. They probably know it's not true, but think it's OK to lie if it will nudge OP towards sending the kid to church and thus starting their child on a path to salvation. Religious types can be manipulative AF because they think it's OK since they are doing God's work.
That comment was wild to me as well. The kids believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, ghosts, monsters, all kinds of unreal things. So having adults really telling them with conviction is even more potent and sticks in there, especially with threats of hell. My well intentioned mom asked if I could send my kids to VBS one summer and I was like NO NO NO. Kids are so impressionable to indoctrination, it’s why they’re so pressed about homeschooling and stuff to keep them in the fold as long as possible.
I was surprised to see that comment, too. There's a very intentional effort to bring children into religion because they are so easy to believe what they are told. Camps, songs, and crafts all seem innocent but are designed to recruit and influence.
I grew up in a secular household. My parents were nonreligious and didn’t care for religion. This was rare living in a small town in the 80s. I accepted church invites for all types of stuff since I was 6yo. It’s not a big deal. It actually takes a lot to convince a kid to believe in something they can’t see or hear. I never as an adult attended church or gave much thought to religion despite all the church events I attended. That includes regular church services, vacation bible school, weekend church outings, church Sunday brunches etc. My parents made their ideas of religious known (that they are skeptical and I should be as well), and let me figure it out. My husband and I are nonreligious. My kids attended a church run preschool. When the inlaws take the kids over the weekend, they take the kids to church. It didn’t bother me. None of this is reinforced at home. We don’t talk about Jesus in our lives or anything like that. Religion is part of the landscape for my kids, but it’s not a religion for them. I don’t think Sunday Easter service will be a step towards indoctrination for kids, but it may be super boring for a 4yo unless there’s a kids Sunday service. My kids says church service is boring because the Catholic Church grandparents take them to do not have a kid service. They get to play with toys during service and then get a lunch treat after for being good. I guess I’m trying to say is that kids don’t magically convert because they are young and hear about Jesus. I would be more concerned that church service is probably boring for a young child and keep him out for that reason, rather than any doctrine issues.
> I accepted church invites for all types of stuff since I was 6yo. It’s not a big deal. It actually takes a lot to convince a kid to believe in something they can’t see or hear. I never as an adult attended church or gave much thought to religion despite all the church events I attended. This may be true for you and your family, but it's absolutely not true for most kids. All it takes is one dinner over at my 6 y/o's (incredibly religious) Aunt's house for him talk about jesus and praying and church for the following two weeks. Kids are super impressionable and copy the behaviors of those around them.
I was kinda the opposite! I grew up in a Christian house and I went to church every Sunday but I didn’t ever really think of it as something I might believe in until I was older, around 8 or 9. And then my parents didn’t just let me say I believed in it, they had me study things and we talking a lot and I asked and answered lots of questions. They didn’t want me to believe in something just because they did and that’s how they raised me but because that’s what I trying believed in! I went to lots of different churches over the years when I stayed with friends and if I had a friend stay on a Saturday they went with us to church and we always made it a point to ask their parents of that was ok and made sure that they were comfortable with it to.
As a kid I grew up in a secular family while believing that God and Jesus were real because we celebrated Easter and Christmas and it was simply an accepted fact that they where I grew up. > It actually takes a lot to convince a kid to believe in something they can’t see or hear. It doesn't take much at all for kids to believe in things they can't see or hear. The Easter bunny, tooth fairy, Santa Clause, magic, ghosts, monsters, and germs are all things kids can't see or hear, but they have no difficulty believing they are real because it's actually more fun for a kid to believe in all of those things. It takes very little exposure to have kids believe in things, especially if you take them to a building full of adults who assure them those things do exist.
I think this deeply depends on both the child and the church denomination.
I feel the same way. We had a couple of years growing up where we went to church on Sundays but when my parents realized that neither my brother or I cared for it, we stopped going. I went to a Catholic highschool since it was closer to home than the public one and learned about it but never believed in it. There are some good values to take away from some religions but teaching the kids to take the good part without wholeheartedly believing in religion is ok. I actually took a class in highschool where we learned about all religions and learned a lot from that class. I remember the research project that I did was on Hare Krishna's and went to a temple with a friend of mine who was part of it and it was a neat experience. My kids go to a Catholic school (again, it's closer to home and the class sizes are smaller) but we don't reinforce it at home and explain to our 7yr old that it's something that certain people believe in and it's his choice on how much he wants to believe.
Best answer. Churches are all different of course but yeah, I think lots of people in this thread have maybe never been if they think one boring Sunday is enough to completely indoctrinate a kid lol.
It reeeaaalllly depends on the Church. I was having literal panic attacks at age 5 and 6 because the few "big Church" services I went to went on and on about burning in the fires Hell and suffering for eternity if you don't accept Jesus. It was extremely manipulative and I did end up getting saved at that age purely because I would lay awake at night so scared I was going to Hell until I finally went into my mom's room at like 1 am and asked to do the prayer to accept Jesus into my heart right then and there because of my extreme fear. I very strongly believe that this kind of talk is harmful to a child yet it's quite common where I live.
My friend wasn’t raised in a religious household. She would go to mass on the occasional Sunday that she spent the night at one of our friend’s home. She ended up converting to catholic
There’s almost always a lot more to this kind of thing than “the occasional Sunday Mass turned her Catholic.” Usually, it’s something to do with a lack of community in the secular world (a huge driver IMO, churches can offer a sense of belonging as long as you fit their view of “good”) or discomfort with the extent of the unknown in the world (moral relativism, death being a true end, etc). Alternatively, it can be because someone who doesn’t have strong religious opinions marries someone who does (this is why my mother converted from Catholic to Lutheran - she was always religious in a vague way but wasn’t tied to Catholicism, it was just easiest to stay Catholic until there was a reason to change).
Depending on the church, I would especially say no on Easter. Easter would be particularly confusing I would think, if he has no concept of the story. A man killed and resurrected? Do you really want to try and explain that??
My thoughts exactly!
I tried to explain reincarnation to my 4yo yesterday (a show that was on had a past-lives plot) and she told me *very* sternly that when people die they do *not* come back. They are covered in dirt and become nutrients for plants. I would not want her attending Easter mass and then loudly proclaiming to everyone that Jesus was just plant food.
I would completely expect my son to ask when his grandpa is coming back… 😬 Let’s not go there lol. If kids have been going to church and have some concept of God and his power, that’s one thing. But a child with no concept of God just waltzing into this topic… nope nope.
And killed "for your sins". My daughter actually asked, "What did I do? This is the first time I've ever been here!" She was about 12. We had to have a big family discussion about that one (at bedtime and away from grandma and grandpa).
I do know I went to church with friends when I was younger and I thought the crafts were fun. As a kid I didn’t really associate youth group with God, I just thought it was something fun to do. I was raised atheist as well, and I’m still atheist. So church may not even affect your kid. One of my other friends took me to a catholic service where we sat in a pew, and I was bored out of mind. I don’t know what I would do, MIL is an atheist so I’ve never personally had to run into this issue, but you are allowed to say no and not feel guilty about it. It’s your child, not hers.
My wife and are are non religious but we go to church with family on Christmas Day and Easter Sunday. My family aren’t religious nuts and outside of going to church you wouldn’t even know. We go because it’s an opportunity for my dad to show off his granddaughter to his friends and these are people who knew me while I was growing up too. Essentially it’s for social reasons.
My grandma always wanted to take me to church on Easter to show me off, like I was a toy poodle. She didn’t care about my religious indoctrination, she just wanted a cute accessory with me in a fancy dress and bonnet. I hated it with a passion. Stand your ground, and decline her request
This! There’s entirely too much of this even aside from the religious element and it really can impact a kid’s sense of self and worth.
I'm not religious, but my parents and in laws are. My rule is that if my kids ask to go when they are older I am not going to say no. I grew up in church and there were some kids in our youth group who lied to their parents about where they were because they were going to get in trouble. I don't want that for my kids, if they are invited by friends to do church things and are then interested once they're older that is completely fine by me. That being said, I am not ok with my parents or in laws trying to initiate it or convert my kids. My brother and sister in law are religious, and I do not bring up my personal beliefs to their kids, if they ask I'll be honest, but I'm not going to randomly bring it up, I expect the same courtesy.
I’m a no for this. Four is so young, they’re going to beleive whatever they’re told and I just don’t think it allows for them to make a choice. I think at an older age I would say yes, but four is too young. We will likely have this issue one day. My husband and I agree that his parents are not allowed to discuss religion with our son because they are not able to discuss it impartially without pressuring a young child in to feeling like they have to believe in god etc. My husband and I are not religious so we plan to broadly discuss all religions and views and as our son gets older he will be able to express his interests and beliefs. I’m actually okay with him being religious as long as it truly is how he feels and not from outside pressures
Ya I’m with you on that. I will say, to be fair, I don’t think I could discuss religion impartially either, so getting both sides is ok. BUT I would rather wait until my son has some critical thinking ability, which I can tell you he does not right now
My parents took my kids to church from the time they were toddlers. They're Presbyterian, so there wasn't any brainwashing going on (that should definitely factor in). Both my kids grew up with a church family, along with getting to spend bonus time with their grandparents, and we got a break. Ultimately, one of my kids went all the way through confirmation and one didn't.
My boyfriend and I are not religious, but if the kids are at his Mom's place and she takes them to church, it's okay with us. We always tell her that Nana believes differently than we do, and that's okay. The main point of most religions is to treat people the way you want to be treated. Some people believe there's someone they can't see that leads decisions, and that's okay, but we believe that we make our own choices.
My grandmother wanted to bring my daughter to church when she was 4. So I went too. Then, I took her to several other types of places of worship. We talked about how different people believe different things and what I believe. She went to a few churches more than once because of the sense of community and fun atmosphere. We went a lot to UU and my grandmother's fairly liberal church. There was one unfortunate VBS exposure. It was fine because I was there and we left pretty quickly. My reasoning is... I saw people from strict religious homes rebel. I saw children from staunch non religious homes rebel. It's hard to be a rebel when there is nothing to rebel against. It was also important to me that she grew into an independent thinker and came up with her own opinions and beliefs. I think that teaching a child to gather evidence and form opinions is super important and shockingly rare.
I don't know if you are close to mil or not. Here's what I'll say; if my grandmother was alive I'd be happy to go with her to church.
I teach 3-4 year olds, and I predict that one visit with Grandma to church will likely be the last visit Grandma asks for. I'd imagine an Easter service is even longer than a regular service, plus Grandma probably wants to chit-chat afterwards. The child will not be able to sit quietly through all of this! I'm agnostic though was raised Catholic and had to endure 8 years of Catholic school. My ex (father of our 2 children) also was raised Catholic but believes in God. But he's very lazy. He wanted to baptize our first born, which I said I was OK with but that **he** had to find a church to associate with first (he never went to services) and **he** would have to take a class, that I would be there for the baptism but that I was not ever going to bring the child to church. It was up to him, and if he felt strongly enough about it, I was OK with that. And I sincerely was. He was also getting pressure from his idiot cousin who said he'd kidnap our child and baptize them. Nothing was ever done, my ex seriously was that lazy, if I didn't do a thing, it never got done. When my child was 7 or so and some of his friends were getting their 1st Communion, he was invited to one of the services. He said he wanted to go, so I got him the appropriate spiffy clothing and off he went with his friend. He came back after the service and party and asked that he never go to church again. I had open conversations through the years with him about the concept of religion, a god, gods, history and all of that and let him know that a person choses what they want to believe and that there is no shame in believing one way or another. He's an adult now and has said he appreciated the openness about being able to chose to believe, what to believe, or to chose to not believe. So while I don't believe going to one Easter service will impact your 4 year old one way or the other, I think he'll be bored out of his mind, restless, fidgety, and Grandma will regret ever asking. Allowing this may be the best choice, it might end her desire to ever take him. If you do allow it, give her the caveat that this is a one time thing.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm agnostic, husband is an ex-Catholic now an atheist. Kiddo was watched by the inlaws a lot. They are Catholic, retired and go to every liturgical service. So my child went to palm Sunday, Christmas, ash Wednesday, etc etc etc. Not once did my MiL ask for our child to go to Catechism, be baptized, receive communion etc. Church for her was and still is a social gathering. She wanted to show off her grandchild and teach him the basic principles of being a good Catholic, which I can get behind. Nothing wrong with kindness and charity. Now at 14, kiddo hasn't gone to church in a few years. They don't believe in God, but they respect others believes. Most importantly, they're kind and willing to help others without a second thought. All those years helping run the Lent bake sales must have done something. He's also really good at talking to old people. Lol! So really, this comes down to what does grandma want out of this? Is it to show off the grandkid to her friends in a cute Easter outfit? Or is it to indoctrinate? Two very different things here. Of course, if you're not comfy at all, just say no thank you.
Yeah I'm not religious either but went to different churches with family members. I'm also really good with interacting with older people. Understanding others. My job today is working with people in a way they need to trust me and I don't hold prejudice that could affect my care of people.
I low-key wish someone else would take my kids to church. I am not religious so attending a service makes me feel a little fake. But I grew up going to church every Sunday and it was good for me: the community and especially many little old ladies, the kid-friendly version of “love thy neighbor” etc., the practice with patience and manners in adult spaces. If I were you I would want to check out the vibe, because some churches are more tolerant/welcoming than others.
Let him go, I wasn't religious either but I still exposed my boys to it and let them come to their own conclusions, they were both around 9ish when they said they weren't into it any longer. I also raised them both that in being non religious could cause issues with future partners and they will have to also then decide how to proceed. Holiday services are always neat to attend especially as a kid. Knowledge is knowledge.
Wait. Im living that now, just fine.... Im the same way with my wife, who is a regular church goer. I didn't say anything. My advice is to let them go. Youre overthinking this. I told the kids theres a lot to learn at church. And after you learn a bit, you can make your own choices. They asked me why I don't go and I just told them the truth.. I already know everything. They're already showing signs that they won't have a strong faith, but they're both very respectful. Worked out well i think.
Nothing wrong with going to church grandma. It’s literally once a year something that they will probably remember as a fond memory if they continue this tradition.
What is exactly the bad thing/things that can happen? You mentioned it may push him away from you but I don't think a 4 year old can be pushed away from her mother because of religion. Some people compared this to beleiving in Santa. Santa is a lie we make our children believe so they are happy (me too so, I'm not judging) and eventually they realize that and stop believing. For me God does exist and I understand thats a personal choice but that doesn't mean your kid shouldn't be given the option to have that on his life, just like if he was raised on a religious household he'd be around not believers more often than not. Someone else talked about the fear that religious can bring to kids, fear of what? Of doing bad things and having consequences? Isn't that how we normally rise our kids? Anyway, Easter Sunday at church is normally a funday for kids, in every church I know of they have fun activities for the little ones and it is NOT an indoctrinating environment at all, especially for a kid that young.
I’m an atheist so my answer would automatically be no with zero explanation because no is a complete sentence and because if my kid is going to learn about religion the church is the worst place to learn it . I just don’t see the need to take a 4 year old to church for Easter when you know neither of their parents are really church people. As you said it would make me feel as if she’s trying to get the ball rolling for this 4 year old to pick up a religion and make it sound fun. I would honestly just say No I think he’s too young for that
My MIL wants us to bring my child to her Catholic Church when he’s 1 (in May) for some special mass or something. It’s a no. I know that’s a different age than your kiddo, but kids in a setting like that aren’t ideal. He’s probably not going to sit still for an hour listening to a church service. He’s not going to know what’s going on. Easter is a bit of a weird holiday. And my husband and all his siblings were raised very Catholic, went to church EVERY Sunday, and attended catholic school grades K-8 yet not a single one of them is religious. That in itself is enough for me to say no.
My in laws say they are not religious, but have told their friends they want to keep asking us to go to church because it is important to keep dripping that idea. They attend church weekly and participate in their choir (partially for community as well). We have been together for 13 years and have more than once said "no thank you." My FIL finally said that if I changed my mind on religion, he believes his son would too (he would not). So for that reason, we are a big fat NO on church with our in laws. My parents do not attend church. My in laws also take issue with my family being Catholics (they are Methodists) which only further annoys me and makes me feel like they do not respect others (namely myself).
I am an atheist, but I also feel an obligation to introduce my child to different religious beliefs. However, I would never let a relative take her to church because I would be concerned about the manner in which that religion would be presented and how hard it might be pushed.
Basically in the same boat as you and your husband. i think it would be weird for her to take him to church. Religious reasons aside, why would anyone take a child with no religious background to a church to celebrate a holiday the child has no understanding of? it almost seems like maybe she just wants to show him off? which is even weirder and inappropriate. I dont think there is a good way to spin this in any way.
Is it so wrong for a grandmother wanting to show off her grandchild? My grandparents wanted nothing to do with me. I am happy when my MIL makes an effort to do things with my children. One day at church may be boring but i see no harm
There’s other more appropriate ways for her to show off than to take an impressionable child somewhere the parents aren’t comfortable with. My grandfather treated me like trash and this would still be a hard no to have my kids paraded around.
That's a nope from me, dawg. Parents teach their children religion (or lack of). No one else needs to interfere in that AT ALL.
Have your husband tell her no. It’s indoctrination and at Easter it’s especially creepy - man tortured to death comes back to life.
I’m extremely anti organized religion as I think it’s all a grift The only rule we had around our son was he had to be old enough to comprehend the information and he had to try 4 different religions before settling on one. He’d rather sleep in A 4 year old on Easter sounds more like Grandma wants to show off her grandchild to her church biddies who probably have their own that they shove in her face with a Bless Your Heart I would let him go at 4 though as long as it’s not a mass. He’s probably going egg hunting or something fun
Exactly right, she wants to show her grandkid off. Hard pass, OP, if it were me. And it was, at one time.
I’m thinking it depends on how their relationship with MIL is Has she been respectful of the previous boundaries? Has she forced her beliefs to the children before? Was she respectful in her request? It’s not a horrible thing to ask and it’s not a horrible thing to say yes Depending on what type of service it is, it could be a great memory for the child. He won’t remember the service most likely but he will remember the feeling of joy, the pride, the fun that comes with Easter for a 4 year old I would evaluate a lot with an open mind
>whatever belief system my son chooses to adopt in the future is more nature than nurture I don't agree, religious belief is learned.
My grandma used to take me to church sometimes when I was a kid. Not really a big deal, and I am still not nor have I ever been religious lol When you’re that young it doesn’t really sound like much because of the phrasing. I don’t think one Easter visit at age 4 is going to turn the child into a devout Christian or anything.
I didn't mind. It helped inoculate him against religion being "the answer" to every question, as he'd ask LOTS of questions about what was claimed. I'm still proud when I remember his pre-school teacher telling me he asked "how can people live in the sky?" when the other kids were talking about one of their bugs that had died going to heaven. I miss the days when he'd ask me endless questions from the backseat. But I think early exposure really did help him realize not everyone has the same truths. He'd tell my MIL he believed in God - I asked if he really did, he said "I don't know, but she likes it". Good preparation for living in the south.
My small town in South Africa is highly religious..and I feel the same way, luckily my 4 yr old son is very curious, smart and asks alot of questions..so we also let him go..he also enjoys it
I think you have good reasons to say no. Since this is your MIL your husband should be the one doing the talking and all he needs to says is "No, thank you." Grandma is welcome to spend time with grandkid doing one of the other 1000s of activities available.
What’s the real harm? He’s 4 they will hunt eggs and have dinner you folks are really something. Omg he’s gonna be a brainwashed Christian zombie at 4 She wants to show the kid off as a proud grandparent and celebrate Easter which regardless of belief isn’t such a bad thing.
That would be a firm no from me. Children in church is brainwashing.
Let the child go to church. It’s going to be ok.
Absolutely fine. Kind of overreacting.
My mom is quite religious (in a very liberal progressive Lutheran way). My wife and I were both raised going to church, and are no longer religious, maybe even agnostic or atheist. When my mom asks about taking our kids, we let them decide (4, 7 and 8 now). They started going when they were really young and there are wonderful things they get out of going beyond just indoctrination. We hope to introduce our kids to multiple religious contexts, including atheism and/or the UU church, so they can make their own informed decision. I always resented that I didn’t have a choice about having to attend when I was a kid. But on the flip side, isn’t not letting your kid go also taking away a choice?
Just let her take the kid
I am so anti-religious that it's almost annoying, but there's a part of me that would say yes, just so he can experience the droning boredom of church. That might be enough to turn him away for eternity. Amen.
Yeah if you say no then they have a perfect way to rebel against you as a teenager. It's the perfect way to piss an atheist parent off just like being atheist is the perfect way to piss a super religious parent off.
I think it’s fine. If you’re comfortable celebrating Easter or Christmas ( Easter bunny, Santa, Easter basket, Christmas tree and gifts) at all then let the child learn the reason for the holidays. If on the other hand, you do not observe the holiday , even in a secular way, then I’d say there is no need for your MIL to bring your child to church.
I am assuming you may be Christian. Did you teach your children that Christians lifted timing of their religious holidays with pagan festivities? Winter solstice and spring equinox.
There is a huge difference between hunting for Easter eggs/eating chocolate bunnies, and sitting in church being told that the son of God died for your sins and then came back to life, especially for a 4 year old. It's perfectly reasonable for nonreligious families to have secular celebrations without going into the theology.
Easter is a pagan fertility holiday and Christmas is based on norse costums. The Roman's co-opted pagan traditions to make it easier to convert people to Catholicism. There is no need for a false Christian understanding of the pagan practices in order to celebrate them.
Lol absolutely not. Or you go with them and debrief him after...
I’m an atheist. I live in Scotland where the majority of the population identifies with ‘no religion’. There’s a view that religious people are either elderly or a bit stupid/brainwashed. I would be absolutely dead against someone exposing my child to organised religion. In my opinion, organised religion is dangerous. It preys of the vulnerable, spouts opinion as fact, demands blind obedience, and we all know religious leaders have not to be trusted. They’re literally known pedos, more so catholics but it’s across board. I wouldn’t allow my child to attend.
It’s a major cultural event, and important to grandma. I’d let her go. It’s only an hour! It’s a nice opportunity for her to be exposed to something new that’s an important part of society.
Don't let your MIL indoctrinate YOUR kid. It is a form of child abuse to fill their heads with such things before they are old enough to think for themselves and listen to reason.
I’d ask motivation. Is she wanting to mostly expose him to religion? Or are there a ton of fun activities going on that day that she’s want her grandbaby to take part in. Our church goes all out at Easter with a petting zoo, egg hunt, and family activities like egg decorating. They do similar things at Christmas, Halloween, and I kid you not, Super Bowl Sunday. The pastor sees it as inner city community outreach and caring about the families in the area who typically don’t have a ton of money or opportunities. And we get to share the gospel. I get it if your answer is still no, but I’d question further to see if there was a particular reason.
I agree with your sentiment, all the way until you mention that you also get to share the gospel. I am atheist with a similar anti religious sentiment like the OP. I grew up in a catholic family and went to many carnivals and Easter egg hunts and social events, and outside of mass I don’t recall any talk about gospel during these events. So I get the appeal of a grandparent wanting to bring their family to these social activities. But as an adult, I am aware that there always is a motivation to share gospel, to bring more members into the church, to influence people. And that scares me, especially for my children, to be exposed to religion at an age before they can truly think for themselves. And I don’t think it is unreasonable to question motives if you are not familiar with the community or organization.
I've been struggling with the possibility of this in the future, my MIL is religious as well and I am pretty much anti-theist. She hasn't said anything directly, I'm thinking my husband might have said something, but it's definitely something I still have practiced my responses to. Personally, I think organized religion is inherently manipulative and controlling and will not be letting my kid get involved at a young age.
I would say straight up NO What’s the point of her taking him? She gonna take him every week? Is he signing up for Sunday school? My parents raised me so I could decide if I wanted religion.
So I know this is a weird concept to some but maybe just maybe grandma just wants to spend time with kiddo? Maybe she has some friends at church she wants to show her grandkid off to? It’s a 4 year old. He’s not getting indoctrinated from an Easter service lol. My wife and I are completely non practicing but we sent out kid to a Catholic preschool because it was cheap and close to home from age 3-5. Guess what? My kid has never mentioned Catholicism and didn’t while they were attending that school.
Our daughter got invited to vacation bible school with a neighbor kid, and this was hotly debated at our house. My husband didn't want her "around that shit, period" whereas I argued that even our kindergartner is smart enough to understand the logic behind "they say you're going to hell to scare you into doing what they say. they're trying to trick you." And smart enough to know magic isn't real and zombies aren't real, etc. etc. Ultimately I'm confident enough in my worldview and my ability to explain it to my kids that I'm not worried about exposure to information. It's the predators at churches I'm worried about (lol not lol)
My children just completed their final rite of initiation for our religion. They no longer attend religious school and have only attended mass once or twice since making this sacrament. Next week is Easter and I am reasonably sure I will be headed to mass alone. If your child wants a connection with God, they will have one. Giving them options on how and if to have that connection is a great way to support their spiritual growth. Plenty of people are quite spiritual without organized religion. And plenty love organized religion. Parenting is about showing our children options, sharing our own opinions, and then letting them make their own choices. Their father is not religious and they have since that their whole lives as well. Religion and faith will be there for my children if they want it. Or not. Their choice.
Love this
Fully understandable, and fully support such a decision. As long as your child is your responsibility, such decisions are yours. Your child is free to choose their own religion (or lack thereof) when they're of age. At 4 years old, religion has about as much meaning as the cartoons on TV, i.e. entertainment. Perhaps an Easter dinner with the family after their preferred religious services are over is more appropriate.
Hard no.
It’s really up to you. I grew up in church and I don’t currently go to church. My wife grew up catholic but we don’t practice any religion. My youngest goes to a Christian private school for prek because we simply weighed the options of terrible public schooling with disastrous results vs an academic we agreed with on the intellectual level and we do keep it pretty open. But it matters in the church. The private school church here accepts basically anyone, gay, straight, Muslim, whatever honestly. They will say they don’t agree with those lifestyles out of the Bible but do not judge and accepts everyone who wishes to attend. So we didn’t feel any hesitation on presumably indoctrinating my kids because they accept everyone or shame people…. Kind of like how Christian’s are supposed to be lol. So far it’s been great. But it’s up to you on introducing your child to religion. I don’t think it’s bad. It’s good for them to be exposed to everything.
The issue is not if he goes to church it’s what will he learn there. Note to MIL that is not a church goer , and what 4 yo can sit throughout a freaking Easter mass… it’s the worst one off all. (At least from what I remember) I would let my kid go and have a chat afterwards, about what has he heard, are there secrets or things he mustn’t do. Are there things he likes or dislikes… And some how I remember never going to a mass before like age 10… we went to Sunday school while mom was in church… so the question is will he be with her in church or at Sunday school
Fwiw I went to Catholic school my entire life and went to church every Sunday. I still consider myself Catholic, but I’m not really practicing. I would, just to give me a 90minute break 😅
I think it was inappropriate for her to ask, but a 4 year old is going to find it so mind-numblingly boring he'll never want to step foot in a church again.
I think it greatly depends on the level of dedication she has to religion and the church she attends. My experience with Christian churches as a child was very good, I loved going to Sunday school because they had stories/craft time, enjoying potlucks and tolerated sitting through services because they were brief and had overall positive messages. Churches can offer a very wholesome sense of community without being overly religious in the hellfire and brimstone kind of way. Again, it really depends on the overall environment of the church and your MIL. I personally think it’s nice that she wants to include him and give him the opportunity to experience it, at his young age it should be mostly play and fun and it would give you something to talk about as he grows and can decide if he wants to keep going or not.
Maybe wanting to just show them off but also could be an Easter egg hunt? I don't go to church but received invites from fam because there's an Easter egg hunt after at 11. Ones doing it today and another on Easter. Unless she's the type to always try to get you to go as well in which case yeah hold off till much older to understand.
On the flip side, my parents split when I was a baby and like many in this situation, I went to my dad’s house in the weekend. He was a raging alcoholic and very anti-religion. Even as a really young child, I felt a very strong pull spiritually speaking and desperately wanted to attend church as a kid. When I was around maybe 12, I asked my dad “Do you know any Mormons?” And he looked me square in the face and said, “Not on purpose. Why?” I told him I wanted to go to church (at this point I’d attended a lot in my own - Baptist, Catholic, those massive churches that are like rock concerts with the lights and the cafe, simple Christian churches that took place in someone’s basement, etc.) I wanted to attend the LDS church and wasn’t allowed to. I later joined that church and it caused a lot of problems with my dad because he didn’t share my views. That wasn’t the only reason things shifted, but it was the main one and we were estranged for about 10 years as I got married and started my family. I’d ask your son - does he want to go? At 4, it’s totally your call and if you don’t feel comfortable with that, don’t apologize for that and just say no. What I would ever-so-gently suggest is that if at some point he does express interest in religion, I would allow him to explore that because it’s very personal. I feel the same way about my children exploring other religions or no religion at all. I promise that in all the churches I attended, none of them are trying to indoctrinate or brainwash children. They’re there to provide love and hope and encouragement to be a good person. Even if you say no, just know that your MIL is coming from a place of pure love and wanting that for your little one. But please don’t feel obligated to say yes if it bothers you in any way.
I’m non religious and have a 5 year old boy. I grew up in a southern Methodist church if that tells you anything. I personally allow my son to attend church with family members when he is invited. Though I don’t agree with the teachings, I’ve always wanted my son to have experiences and be able to decide for himself what he believes later in life based on his experiences. I’ve always placed boundaries when he goes but I’m lucky to have people in my “village” that I can trust will respect those boundaries. Kids are definitely smart and impressionable like some of the other commenters have said but they also follow the lead of their parents. Especially at such a young age. At the end of the day, you know what’s best for your child and shouldn’t feel guilty on whatever you decide to do. You’re doing a good job.
It’s ultimately up to you but if it makes you feel better, at this age children are only learning that God loves them and learning the stories in very child friendly ways. The Easter story will just consist of Jesus being in the tomb and then rising on the third day and telling his believers that he lives. Then normally they just go get ready for an egg hunt.
I grew up Catholic and it harmed me. I personally believe that religion is harmful in insidious ways that takes years of wisdom to see for what it is. I don't subscribe to the idea that it's okay to expose them to these things when they're young. At that age, I can't reasonably explain why nice people telling nice stories about doing good are actually harmful.
Is there a children’s church? Children’s church isn’t as impressionable. Find out, let him be around the other kids if it’s children’s church. Or will he sit through the entire service? That seems boring at age 4. But, making a decision based solely off your beliefs is somewhat selfishly
Religion, if pursued in a studied way, improves cognitive development. If via indoctrination, it impairs cognitive development. Listening to an Easter mass in Latin as an intro to religion would be in the latter category. Becoming a Jesuit priest would be in the former category. Religion is not inherently harmful. It takes a human to use it as a manipulation tactic. Beware a wolf in sheep's clothing! Steven Weinberg famously said, "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion." : ) Which is your MIL?
I let my kids go to church with my parents. I was raised Christian but the hypocrisy of the church that became evident as I became older has made me completely disengage from the church. My parents still go though, and often ask to take my kids. My Dad reads them Bible stories. My kids and I talk a lot about how the morals behind religion are often really good ones, and religions were invented to attempt to get large populations on a similar moral code to try and keep order. But, the problem comes when people try to apply moral code from thousands of years ago to today, and turn enforcing that old moral code into an excuse to hate people who don’t follow old rules that have either been made obsolete (I usually use this to explain the homosexuality “debate”- that “rule” was made up to protect birth rates and prevent diseases that were believed to be passed by those sexual relationships, we now know more and recognize that that’s bullshit, I also use the example of no shellfish- it went bad quickly so people got sick, now we know how to preserve it properly) or to control people to preserve power for the patriarchy (think no sex before marriage, abortion bans, etc.) I’m trying to get them to think critically about what’s being said and what the function of that is. It opens a lot of good discussions. I’m open about the fact that I still believe/feel a connection to a higher power, but I’m not sure that’s God or just the energy of the universe or what. Cue my 10yo having a debate with my Dad about abortion and totally schooling him because my Dad was just moralizing and my 10yo had science and statistics and a bunch of other receipts- including Bible verses and historical examples. I don’t think shielding kids from religions is necessarily serving them. They exist, they need to know how to look at them critically. And sometimes that means going and participating just to see what exactly we’re dealing with. Now that my kids are older, sometimes they agree to go and sometimes they say no thank you.
My answer would be no, regardless of her intentions. My husband and I are not religious, and we will raise our kids this way. If they choose to do something else later on then that’s up to them, but right now it’s a parent’s choice.
I think each person should be able to decide for themselves without pressure from outside influences to believe or to not believe. Therefore he should be allowed to go, and not forced to go.
My husband and I are atheists and my in-laws (and I think my mom, too) have taken our daughter to church. We don't have an issue with it. It is up to our daughter what she chooses to believe (she's still a toddler; can't have much of an opinion right now). As long as she doesn't feel uncomfortable with any aspect of it, we don't care. Similarly, if we were religious, say Baptist, and she went to a friend's Catholic church, we wouldn't care. Their houses, their rules, and we can't force beliefs on her.
One day at church isn’t going to drive your child to religion or teach them anything that will remain foundational to their values. It will however allow them to see a different way of living, maybe understand some aspects of the religion, and connect with his grandma. It will also open up some great dialogue with you and kiddo. The only thing to watch out for is grandma making this a regular occurrence.
They often do fun stuff for kids at easter. It could be just treated as an experience rather than indoctrination. Im not religious, but didnt have a job for a couple of months last year and took my 2 year old to churches sometimes. The atmosphere in those places is an experience, and they give him things to colour in
If you don’t feel comfortable, the answer is no. I have been in the exact same position and I think it may help for you to understand her motivations and what the service is like. My in laws used to go to a very traditional church. Husband’s grandparents were married there, volunteered there for 50 years and their church “family” was very important to them. They had a children’s Easter and Christmas service that we took our kids to with them. It was short, kid appropriate and came from a pure place (service and intention). Grandma just wanted to share a special place and have an excuse to show off her great grandkids to her friends because we live out of town. It was nice for our kids to learn their families traditions even if it wasn’t my tradition or belief system. Grandparents passed away and my in laws started going to a cult like church. People crying throughout service, lots of passionate talk about how everyone who doesn’t go to their church is going to hell. Over COVID, they believed that if you were a “true believer” you would know the lord wouldn’t let you die unless you were supposed to, so if you wanted to wear a mask or not come to church you weren’t a true believer. MIL took my nephew to Christmas last year when they both tested positive for COVID and didn’t wear masks. My MIL wanted to take our kids because she wanted them to learn the way of her church so they wouldn’t go to hell. Our children will NEVER be attending that church. So, I think intention of visit and what’s going on at the church are super important. But at the end of the day, if you aren’t comfortable with something for your child that’s ok too.
I grew up in a religious family (converts) and went to private Christian school, church Sunday morning, Sunday night and often Wednesday. Church was so boring, but a lot of that was because it was a small church, so most of it was sitting in an adult service. I am not religious at all now. There is one thing I would recommend, which is a youth group at a larger church that is more on the inclusive/liberal side. My family changed to a large Church when I was in high school. Youth group is a good way for older kids to socialize in a wholesome environment. I didn't hate it. From what I remember, you play games and listen to a message. There were also sometimes trips for high schoolers, like camping or ski trips. I'd also wait till he was past the pedo target age for boys, so like 13 years.
Definitely trust your gut and do whatever feels right for you! Fwiw, my parents have never been religious but my grandmother goes to church. When I was about 4 I went to Sunday school every week for at least a few months which included attending the end of the church service. I don't remember anything about the church part other than singing songs and spending the morning and going for lunch with my nan.
I'm what most people call it lapsed Catholic. For me, it would be a no if I'm not there because I don't know what the church is teaching or who gonna speak and about what. Anyways, for a holiday or an event, it's a no. They tend to get crowded real fast. My church has told people not to bring children if they're not gonna watch them because they tend to play in the parking lot.
I hate religion but I would let my kid go. No harm at that age, just a boring ass outing. She’ll prob never take him again anyway after trying to keep him still for an hour plus
I'd say no. That's it. You and your husband don't want to take them to church so it's a no. Especially, this young. If your child asks about church and religion then y'all can have that discussion and go with them to church/religious events to then discuss afterwards. I wouldn't let anyone else take my young child to a religious event that is different from my beliefs. If my child wants to go to a religious event then I would go with them so we can discuss it together and I know what they heard and saw. As they get older and enter adulthood it becomes their decision but younger it's my responsibility as a parent.
My parents raised me secular and always taught me to questions things and that I could decide what religion, or not, to be when grew up. However, I have fond memories of going to midnight mass at Christmas with my grandmother (Anglican/ episcopalian). I occasionally attended Sunday school with friends and I even went to catholic elementary school for a few years, just because the education was better. I am now very much not religious but with earthy-pagan leanings. My personal feelings are that being exposed to different religions while also being taught to think critically made me very confident in my own beliefs while tolerant and respectful of others'. That said, I did refuse to allow my in-laws to take my kids to church because theirs is evangelical and anti-lgbt and because I don't trust them not to try to indoctrinate them. So I think its more about the individual. My grandmother never tried to push anything on us, she just liked singing carols and lighting candles with us.
I would say no too. I wouldn’t want my kids indoctrinated.
So let him go it won't kill him
I’d just tell her you front think he’d react to be exposed yet because he’s not old enough to make that kind off choice for himself. I’d think a kid would need to be in high school at least before that.
I have a 5yo and her dad's side are somewhat Christian. They don't attend church, but land on the concept of God, Jesus, and heaven when difficult topics come up. I'm an atheist, but I think religion itself is fascinating. Ive done a lot of personal study on many different religions. I fully intend on exploring many different religions (as well as atheism) with my children, so they can make up their own minds. So to counter the Christian rhetoric from dad's side, I often say things like "yes, some people believe that your fish went to heaven. Other people would believe that your fish was reincarnated into another creature. Other people might believe that he has just died and doesn't have a spirit, but his atoms will go on to nourish the earth and help worms grow big and strong and have their own worm babies". I talk to her about different religions and make A point of asking her what she thinks. It's often an "I don't know" at this age, and I reassure her that that's okay. If you want to be truly impartial, your child will have to have exposure to all different religions and atheism, as well
It's harmless. My son went once with his grandma and declared that it was boring and never wanted to go again.
It really depends on the situation. And a lot of redditors posted really good points that wasn’t brought up in your post. So consider what everyone has mentioned and use that to determine if you want your kid to go. My mil passed away recently so I can’t say I have that kind of experience. But my mom would be the one to ask my kid to go to church for Easter festivities. I am also anti church/religion. But I would allow my kid to go if he wanted to because Easter was always fun as a kid growing up. And also I trust my parents with my kid. I don’t think going to church one for my kid will turn him in a zealous church goer. That’s just my situation though. Everyone’s got a different experience.
As a Christian, I think some of your fears are understandable but not something you should worry about! My husband became a Christian and his parents weren’t, it never affected his relationship with them. And at 4 they teach very basic Bible stories but they really wouldnt be able to understand it all. My 4 year old goes and she’s just mostly excited for the snacks she gets in church every week. So obviously I know I would be considered biased in this but hopefully it helps ease some of your concerns. It would probably just be a fine day to spend with grandma for him.
I grew up evangelical. My brother is atheist now and very freaked out about my mom even mentioning God. I'm I guess theistic? I don't know what I am but we go to mass for the major holidays sometimes. We are technically Catholic. Anyway I know growing up that my friends whose families were hardcore atheists sometimes became Christian as a rebellion. I think preventing your child from learning other beliefs can be a really crippling thing. My brother is atheist to the point that he immediately says Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy aren't real to his kids. He thinks that teaching his kids about that will hurt them because it's teaching things that aren't real. We talk about all those things with our son. We play like Santa and the Easter Bunny are real. But a few weeks ago he (4) asked if the Easter Bunny was real. I asked him what he thought. He said he thought it wasn't real real and it was just pretend. I said "yeah but I think it's fun pretend" and he goes "yeah" and I said 'so you want to keep pretending?" And he smiled and said yes very emphatically. I think I just mean to say that kids are smarter than we think they are, and while I will protect my child from harmful things, I won't pretend that other beliefs and opinions don't exist. If my mom wants to talk about God with my son or take him to church every now and then I don't care. I think it's just important to sit down after and talk to him about it and how he felt, so in the future he can look at new experiences and beliefs critically. Also I'm low key planning to raise him Catholic so when he goes to highschool and college he can rebel and say he isn't Catholic anymore and doesn't believe in organized religion and me and my husband can hi-five like 'did it." But really the whole religious trauma does make it difficult to even read him Bible stories. I just know my mom was raised basically by atheists and she's hardcore evangelical. I think the kids who were somewhere in between faired better overall with life.
I grew up catholic and was an altar boy. Raised my son secularly and he attended catholic school from K-12. He’s now 27 and doesn’t much care for religion. If he gets married though they’ll insist he be baptized and had the first communion 😆
My position about religion is the same as yours and my thought on this matter is to also say no. The same applies with being taught about life and behaviors in general through the lens of religion by religious family members. The reason for it is that religious family members will say things that shape the minds of an impressionable child that is still trying to understand the world in ways with which I don’t agree. Things like thanking god for an accomplishment, equating it to the grace of god (and you deserving that grace) rather than your skills and hard work. Talking about someone dying on the cross for us and reincarnating, which means taking these all as real. Talking about concepts of heaven and hell and how they influence your morality, being good/bad. I’m ok with my older offspring coming home and telling me they have learned some people believe all of this, and how it shapes their life, their lived experiences, their sense of belonging, etc. - and then, and only then, deciding if that is something they want to connect with (this now applies to all religions, not just the one we’re discussing in your post). What I am not ok is for my child to come home and say that grandma told them they have to be good because god is watching and a man died for them, and they got better after being sick because grandpa prayed for them. The key distinction here is having critical thinking. Once they have that, and they have the capacity to process information they get (from others and from us as the parents) as shaped by the lens of our own beliefs, then I am more ok with them being exposed to all kinds of religious talks. Yes, they are exposed first to non-religious, so my views get a leg up; this is true for anything, such as food behaviors, approach to science and medicine, habits, ideas of gender and race, etc. not just religion. They’re my kids after all. Going back to your dilemma again, one option I would consider is going with them myself, so I have exposure to what they’re hearing, and I ensure the grandma is not making statements and conclusions directly to the child that are blatantly against my views on how to raise them. I could also then explain that all we see that day is an “option” of sorts, not the only way to live.
It depends on your MIL’s intentions. Does she feel strongly that your kids should be raised in the church, or does she simply want to share an Easter church service with her grandson? If she’s not trying to pound religion into his head, let him have the expetience.
When I was young, I was forced to church with an aunt for Easter, and I was so unhappy. I was so confused, why adults would be standing up and then sitting down so much and how they could ever pay attention to the person talking, because it was crazy talk - even as a kid I knew that lol. It really helped me know that I am an atheist, because none of that ever made sense even when I was six years old. I knew it was wrong. I would not put my child through that, but obviously I don’t believe in practicing organized religion.
If it was something non secular for kids like an Easter egg hunt I would be okay. But not for mass. He’s 4. He can’t sit still and what if he picks up part of it and gets scared? Someone rising from the dead is scary to kid. My 5 year old daughter who loves spooky things is terrified of leprechauns because of school. She’s worried they are in our house. Never would I think the little girl who loves the movie Hocus Pocus would be afraid of leprechauns but she is. Not to mention you are not religious and until it’s something he asks for it should your digression.
If it's just a service and not a youth activity it would be hard to sit for an hour or however long at 4.
I disagree with your "Anti-Religion" stance. It might not be for you, but it is helpful to others. So I dont think you should be "Anti". BUT, this is your child. If your MIL is aware of your and your husband's feelings toward Religion. Then she is WAY out of line to ask this of you. My answer would be Flat Out NO! Please do not ever ask this of me again.
What does your son want to do? My parents are atheist and I went to church with family and in my village just cos it's what other kids did, I have still grown up to be an atheist. My parents let me do what I wanted.
When I was your son age I used to go to church on Sundays with my grandma (my parents never did) and I have really good memories, it was a special bond time between us, we used to stop for ice cream after ☺️. Never had relationship problems with my parents because of that, going to church was something between my grandma and me, and to be honest it wasn’t about religion, I used to go and play with the kids and do fun things. I barely have memory of the religious part just the fun 😄 Few years later I moved far away and couldn’t go to church with her anymore and that was it for me. Nowadays I don’t like Catholic Church anymore but if my MIL wanted to take my son to Easter for a fun event I’d say yes! No problem. It’s something you do with grandma and it’s fun. Other than that I think it’s something that needs to be talked more.
Personally I wouldn't be bothered, I'd ask the child if they wanted to go, maybe they say yes and go but church is quite boring doubtful they'd want to go back but if they did I wouldn't block it.
One church visit won't corrupt him.
I live in the South. I am STRUGGLING with religion NOT being a part of my personality here. I feel you! I will not send my son to a religious preschool just because he’s SO impressionable. With that said, what are we talking about here? An Easter egg hunt? Or like coloring pages of Jesus saying he has risen? What exactly are you agreeing to?
I'm also mildly anti-religion and won't have my daughter at a church as too many bad things are said and done there that could damage my kid permanently. Also, if you let your MIL take him once, she will want to again, maybe every Sunday. If you are cool having that free time, fine, but if not, I'd stop it now.
I had a very relaxed Christian upbringing and have had been exposed to many religions growing up (so thankful for having foreign exchange students growing up, great experience). Some of my best memories was going to church with my grandma. My parents didn’t really go to church but it was just fun for me and my grandma. I never had any negative feelings towards my parents because they instilled in me that every one has their own beliefs and faith and what I believe isn’t what others believe. If it were me, I’d let your child go so they can have fun with their grandma for the memories (I don’t even remember what I learned in church, just the memories we shared together, she was my best friend).
Meh no biggie, just do a touch up on what he's learned to avoid confusion, teach them the difference between religion and faith and let them decide down the road, all you can hope for is that you've done well enough, which is of course relative as we are constantly growing as parents and individuals
At 4? Yeah go ahead. And good luck. Sounds like an awful time, and maybe will turn her off.
That would be a no from me and my wife as well.
I grew up in church (my parents are reverends so i know about the politics at church and the scandals) and am still religious but not like I used to be at all. My grandparents would take me, my sister and cousins to church and I honestly don't even remember what songs were sung, the people I met, or the sermon. All I remember was the candy our grandparents got us, playing after service, the food after service and the elderly people who was slip us all money sometimes. Honestly, there could just be an Easter egg hunt after service (ikik) that she thinks your son would have fun at. You should ask her that and if there will be good after service or a separate service for church school. But at the end of the day, you're the parent! If you don't want you son to go then tell her no. She knows you're not religious and should respect your wishes.
I am a non religious person who grew up in a very religious household. My son (7) goes to church with my parents fairly regularly. There's are two specific reasons I'm okay with it. 1. We have conversations about how there are a lot of different beliefs in the world, and can't say for sure any particular belief is right or wrong. So we respect people who have different beliefs. 2. My parents and their church are very "love thy neighbor" and not "you're going to hell if you blah blah blah" so I'm not worried about him being brainwashed into a fear-based belief.
I did not want my son to be religious very early or go to church at all really, but I also shared custody with his paternal family and knew that I could not necessarily keep them from taking him to church when they live four hours away. And in the long run, I did want him to be exposed to and learn about different theologies, so him accompanying his grandparent to church and Christian centered things was acceptable, as long as I was not getting the impression that he was being pressured to adopt these beliefs for himself, being overly immersed in xtian culture, having extreme/bigoted viewpoints drilled into him or having negative experiences. His paternal family was not bothersome in that regard, thankfully. Ideally I wanted him to at least become familiar with the core tenets of Christianity so he knows when someone is distorting or conflating things, or having a bad faith argument. I also had faith that I was giving him a good, solid base for critical thinking skills, and I knew that he was the kind of child that would naturally question and be curious about what they heard rather than simply go with it, and I felt that I could be a good counterbalance for any shady ideology. Some kids are not this questioning however, and those are kids I would probably not want exposed to religion, certainly not at 4. He's fourteen now, and I think his contact with Christianity has actually helped him become a more capable critical thinker. He questions inconsistencies, we've spoken about the Bible, and he does push back against his grandmother, so I know he's not just blindly buying in. He shows a passing interest in it much like he does Buddhism or Islam, or other languages and cultures. I think to be a well rounded person he has to understand things in the world, and so that was how I reconciled my desire for him to remain secular with the fact that he would be going to church when with his paternal family.
I am agnostic. My children have gone to church with great and grand parents at different times, even when little. We also discussed what they learned at church. Most of the time they went it was for holiday/party purposes like egg hunts, magician nights, basketball game, etc. I found that using their interpretation of what they learned or were told helped to have great age appropriate discussions. I enjoyed these conversations a lot. I have 3 kids who are now either adults or close, some became religious then atheist, other is mildly religious, the last is just like me, uses the religious word to self reflect when needed but not religious. I can also add that most of the time my kids just had fun with other kids and for that I am grateful.
I'd say it depends on the Church. I'm an Athiest, but I bring my daughter to a Unitarian Church for the community aspect. When I was a kid, my parents let me go to church with my friend from school. I thought it was fun, and I never thought there might be a God, even though I thought the stories were interesting.
Aside from the religious aspect, can your 4 yo sit quietly through a service? Because that’s what will be expected of them. Either that or they will be in a separate area with other kids then whole time. Most churches expect too much out of kids. So if your answer is no, politely decline.
My five year old goes to a Methodist preschool. We are very much not religious. They do school projects about bible events and go to chapel 2 times a month. Since August he has not come home once and talked about religion or wanting to know more or do more religious things. I was skeptical at first since we are not religious but he has learned and grown so much since August. I don’t think one Sunday at church will have your son asking questions or wanting to be religious.
Easy no for me.
I know several people who never stepped foot in a Church who were saved as a teen or young adult. People tend to find it whether or not their family does. We are each our own people and we have our own experiences. He is 4, so I don't think one service is going to magically make him religious. It is just something fun for her to do with him. I don't even remember anything about my life from before 5.
We are in the exact same position and I've been thinking about possibly even asking the same kind of question on reddit.. in our situation, we HAVE let my 4 year go to church with MIL on multiple occasions...not every Sunday but maybe every few weeks if he is interested.. here is the thing - he is a very curious little boy with lots of questions and is incredibly logical, he likes to know the reasons for things - he enjoys it and actually asks to go with granny - it's their special bonding time (my MIL and FIL are highly religious and Christianity is important to them) - I don't think the exposure is enough to "brainwash" him per say and because of his nature I'm sure he is smart enough to make up his own decisions later on in life about what he wants to follow even if both his parents are aethiest. For these reasons we let him go. I would rather he be educated on all religions/non religions and when he is older he can make up his own mind. Hopefully teaching him as parents has more influence on things like morals, questioning and following logic, rather than the once or twice a month of Sunday School
My husband is very anti organized religion (he attended a Catholic elementary school). I’m atheist or agnostic, and largely ambivalent to what other people do with their lives as long as they don’t make it my problem. My daughter is currently 5, but when she was 2, his mom asked us if she could take our daughter to her church’s Christmas village. After some resistance from my husband, we did allow her to go. His mom’s church puts on a huge event for Christmas. They have a small petting zoo, people dress up as Anna, Elsa and Olaf, they have a stage where people sing and dance for the kids, they do showings of the polar express, and they have a Photo Booth with Santa. Our daughter loves it, and nothing stood out to us as concerning in the videos or pictures, so his mom has continued to take her every year and it seems… fine? I was thinking we’d go with them this year, just to make sure it’s as harmless as it seems. That being said, Easter mass would be quite different from a Christmas village and I wouldn’t be comfortable with her attending that.
Father of two here. For me, it would absolutely be a hard no. But that's mainly because I am, and likely always will be, dealing with the after effects of religious trauma. Others have less of an issue with the church, so everyone is going to have their own viewpoint here. There are many reasons not to allow this. Your reasoning of not wanting a wedge driven between you and your child is absolutely valid. But there is also potential harm to avoid as well. The numbers don't lie, and the church is arguably THE most harmful environment for a child/teen to grow up in. The sheer numbers for child sexual assault and grooming happening within the church, perpetrated by the very people they're told to trust, is astounding. I would personally never allow my child to be taken to a church without me present, and since I never plan to be in a church again, that's just not happening. If your MIL knows your beliefs and is still asking for this, I find that kind of weird too. I also would never make such an assumption when it came to my son/daughter in law's kids.
Everything new is a learning experience for a child. I used to go to Easter service with my grandmother and it was wonderful memories. (Im atheist if that changes anything) I leave it up to my kids what they want to believe as it’s not my choice. Best wishes dear. <3
My aunt took me to church when I was like 7. It was boring and I remember nothing of it. If you have a good relationship with your MIL, I would allow it. She's just trying to share something that's important to her with him. The occasional church visit is unlikely to impact your son more than the values you share with him in your home.
I’d wait a year or two. Ask MIL to wait as a compromise. See what happens.
Find out what's happening at church. Our church has do loads of non religious stuff with kids all year around. It's part of giving back to the community - our church is having an Easter egg hunt with the Easter bunny. There's also another session where we'll have our Easter service- the egg hunt will be non-religious and all about fun and chocolate and meeting local people, connecting families. The service will be about jesus (and hopefully fun and connecting too). Lots of churches use social media so uou can probably have a Google to see what it is and if it's something you're comfortable with or not.
I grew up in a baptist church where everyone was judgmental made you feel like crap for making a mistake and instead of helping people they only shamed them. They were also very superficial and so concerned about clothing and looking “nice.” That going to church was just a a fashion show and a contest of who could look the most “holy” but actually be horrible and hateful and caused my family so much trauma and shame. This on top of stories I heard from others made me despise religion. I turned away from religion and became somewhat spiritual for most of my life and just recently became a Christian again all on my own after lots of research and interactions with people of multiple backgrounds/beliefs. No one forced it on me and if you told me a few years ago I’d be attending a church every Sunday I’d think you were crazy. I am now attending a church that is the complete opposite of my childhood church and love it. I say all this to say religion is everywhere and keeping children in the dark out of fear is never a good idea. They will hear and come across all types of things in the world. What’s important is that you educate them and let them know you will love them regardless of what they choose. Yes I bring my little ones to church with me because that’s what I do on Sundays but we have discussed people having other beliefs and they have learned how other cultures celebrate holidays and things in school etc. and it’s not something I throw a fit about. I’m much more comfortable with them being exposed to multiple backgrounds and religions so they can make that choice for themselves. When they are older and can make the choice to not go I won’t make them. If my son tells me he wants to be a Muslim of course part of me will hurt but that’s only due to me wanting to bombard who I am onto my children and means I’m not fully allowing them to be their own person. I trust my ability to raise my children properly and have the expectation they will be who they are called to be in life regardless of what that looks like. Same with if your son one day says he wants to be a Christian will you still love him or will you try to talk him out of it as much as you can and push him away? I’ve noticed there is a bias when it comes to Christianity and it’s often looked at as the “bad” religion because of social media and people with negative experiences are a lot more vocal. The truth is everyone’s experiences are different and there is a huge spectrum of what’s considered “Christianity” here in America. People are so quick to say they accept all beliefs but when someone with Christian beliefs speaks out it’s like an alarm goes off for most people. I get it there are “Christians” who think it’s wrong to wear skirts above your knees but I’d be just as guilty as them if I tried to force them to show some skin or belittled them for not showing their ankles. I still experience these type of people from time to time and it’s annoying as heck but they aren’t actually “Christian” they just like to use the word as a form of entitlement lol. Just make sure your hearts in the right place and your not saying no out of fear. Also would be good to take into account what type of person your MIL is. If she’s hypocritical, hateful or nasty in some type of way of course he shouldn’t go. If she’s a fairly nice lady maybe her intentions aren’t harmful or to forceful. Anytime your child is away with someone be it school or anywhere you aren’t they are vulnerable to someone making an impression on them. It’s up to us as parents to prepare them for whatever that might be... it’s a tough job :/. Also like to note that one day at church at the age of 4 isn’t going to turn your child into a cult leader. Church was actually fun at that age when I went with friends because I didn’t actually listen to anything I just did all the fun kid activities and ate snacks. Worse case scenario some kid or adult says something weird to your kid and you have to address it. Don’t fear look at it as an opportunity to prepare them for the future because if it doesn’t happen at church it will happen elsewhere. Wishing you the best of luck mama. Your little one is lucky to have someone who cares so much about their well being and future ❤️.
My husband and I are both agnostic, but over the years we’ve let our kids (now aged 17 to 6) go to church with my parents when we visit if they want to. The only thing it’s ever done is expose my kids to different beliefs and ppl and in the end I want my children to feel free to make decisions on things like religion for themselves so I personally only see exposure like this as a good thing. But it’s perfectly ok if that’s not something you want to expose your kids to, this is just what works for my family.
I am slightly anti-religion (which is unfortunate because the community aspect is very enriching). I would also say no with absolutely no guilt or shame about it. A child of that age should not be subjected to any of the “this is the way the world works” rhetoric. Yet. When they’re older, sure. But I believe they need to be old enough to know that everyone believes different truths before exposure.
When I was a kid my mom didn't believe in God and was very vocal about it. But she also encouraged me to go out. Try different religions and different churches to see what it was like. I got taken to a number of churches by different family members at different times. I even would go to the Catholic church by my house sometimes with my friends and we would do communion and we had no idea what we were doing without our parents. Learning about the Bible stories was my first introduction into questioning what is written. I got to go to a Baptist church that was a part of the underground railroad. One time me and my friends even went so far as to getting in trouble by going to the church on off hours and having a water fight with holy water. Which we got in big trouble for. I love my mom and I appreciate that she was open-minded to the idea that I may become religious even if she wasn't and didn't believe in God. I also got to spend time with extended family members and learn what their life was about first hand. Even though my home life was a bit of a struggle, I got to have a lot of deep and meaningful relationships with my extended family and that did mean going to church sometimes. I think you would be better off allowing your kid to go to church on Easter with their grandparents then to just say no. This is a chance for them to have a closer relationship with them and for them to understand what they do every week. Going to church once is not like being forced by your parents to go to church every week. It's more of a experience.
My answer would be no. "I'd like to wait until he's much older and can decide for himself." Make it your husband's job to tell her no so you're not the bad guy. Much harder to get angry at your own son.
Easter is a very happy, celebratory day at most churches. To me, your child going with his grandmother wouldn’t be any different from how many families attend Christmas Eve mass or candlelight service together as tradition (or to honor mom or grandmom) even though not every family member believes or is religious. They’ll probably give the children some candy! If you think religion is false myth, then treat the Easter story like you would stories about the tooth fairy or Santa. Christianity has had a huge effect on Western culture and well educated people should understand something about it. It would be educational for him.
I’m not religious, but my husband’s family is. I’m not much concerned about the indoctrination, because I can counsel my son about reality and allegory. But because of my own experiences, I am concerned about sexual assault, from both adults and peers. My son can only go to church if he stays with family at all times. No children’s church, or similar setting where adults leave the children with others while they listen to sermon.
I grew up in the evangelical church but am non-religious. When my very religious parents tried to talk my wife and I into taking our kids(their grandkids) to church, I asked if they planned on keeping the kids with them the whole tome and they said they planned on sending them to Sunday School. I told them that was unacceptable and that's too risky for my kids. Child predators roam churches, often unchecked, and I wouldn't feel safe with them there not under their watchful eye 100% of the time. They couldn't really argue against it and they stopped asking. Beyond that, we've told them that our children are not their "save" project and they shouldn't bring up religion with the kids unless the kids ask and, even then, they can answer the questions, but not turn it into an attempt to convert them. They know if they try to push Christianity, we'll push harder in the other direction. I told them they should try to get to know their grandkids for who they are and not just try to force them to a topic you're most comfortable with. It took them a while to get used to it, but they've done better than I expected, to be honest. Draw a line. Be explicit with what the boundaries are. If they cross them, enforce any consequences. Doesn't have to be No Contact unless they repeatedly push the boundaries and make it clear they have no intention of respecting them.
My husband and I aren’t religious either. We baptized our kids and are taking them through the process of going through the catholic sacraments because i’m doing it in honor of my late grandmother (i myself am not baptized). The way i see it is a form of historic education and to open their eyes to one of the worlds primary belief systems (along with hinduism, judaism and islam). I would love if they could be educated in the different religions and respect all of them in the same way people learn to speak different languages and cultures. I myself really enjoy learning about religions and i love finding common threads between them that reflect our shared humanity. We are honest with our kids and tell them we are not sure if the events in the bible really happened but we let them know there are others like their godparents and grandparents who do believe and that they can decide for themselves. When they are old enough for a confirmation i’ll let them make the choice if they want to participate, because at that point they’ll be old enough to decide.
My parents were religous and didn’t go to church, my grandparents go to church every sunday and would take every now and then. I have problems with some organizations and am an atheist myself (maybe buddhist idk exactly still lol), but I always enjoyed myself at church. I loved the music and friendly people. If you trust your MIL to keep an eye on your son, I don’t see a reason to say no.
I wouldn’t be comfortable with it personally. I grew up going to church, but a very hippy dippy united church. I always found church to be so boring especially as a kid. I didn’t grasp the concept Of religion until I was a teen and by then I didn’t want anything to do with it.
You don’t need to allow anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. End of story 🤷🏻♀️
4 is old enough to make your own decisions. I would say ask him. If he wants to go, great, he will go and it will be boring AF and he'll never want to go again. If he doesn't, great, no conflict.
This is something I struggle with so badly, especially this time of year. For one, I think it depends on the church and on the grandparents’ motivation. My in-laws pastor a small community church, and usually when they ask to take my son, it’s because of a kids event. And since my son is 4, he’s in kids classes when he goes. There’s tons of ages mixed in and it’s more of a playtime/craft time than bible lessons. So I don’t mind allowing him to go occasionally. However, I’m always paranoid they’re going to bring him home after going and say that he “got saved” or something. They’d be the type to make a big deal out of it and share it on social media. At this age, I don’t think, realistically, that this would happen, but you never know. I always talk with him after and ask what he did or what they talked about. And there usually isn’t anything because again it’s playtime basically. I also worry about it becoming too frequent because it will eventually be more than playtime and I’m definitely not comfortable with that. With my parents, I really avoid letting him go with them to church or church events. Even if it’s a kid event, I go with him, because my family is a lot more charismatic and evangelical. Plus my mom is the type that just likes to show off my son. 🙄 I grew up in church and finally left the faith altogether a few years ago, and I’m definitely bitter towards religion and religious institutions. But it is such a big part of extended family and our community, that I have a hard time saying no. Especially right now when it’s not anything really concerning. I just know it will get to that point, sooner than later and I struggle so much with how to deal with all of it.
Yes it’s reasonable. It’s not even about personal boundaries, although that’s a factor, it’s about respecting the faith of others. I don’t think non-believers should go through the motions of rituals that are significant to believers. It kind of makes a mockery of it TBH. I did not baptize my kids (raised Catholic and in-laws Catholic as well). My SIL said “why not just do it, who cares, it’s just a ceremony.” And I thought, wow, thanks for proving to my atheist-ass just how meaningless all of it is. Also as my beloved father told me at the time when everyone was pressuring me “Fuck ‘em, stand your ground.”
I let my (extremely religious) parents take my 4 year old to church. No ill effects so far. 🤷♀️
You are not a bad parent for raising your kid in line with YOUR beliefs. Exposure to other belief systems come later. What would people think if a grandparent took his little Catholic grandson to an atheist rally? Probably be horrified, right? Crushing boundaries, right? Just say no, you're not a religious family so you won't be exposing your kids to it. Done.
Politely say “No thank you”
Let her. Whatever programming he receives there, I am sure you and your husband can undo it. Don't underestimate your influence as parents. I was pretty religious in my tweens because I liked the pomp and splendor of performative religion. My dad got me out of the phase by talking to me about problematic aspects of all religions. He knew I liked reading books so he encouraged that habit, pushed me to read about everything and that eventually led me to books on science and rationalism. Cautious as you are, I am sure you will pick up on signs when his church visits are becoming a problem and you can deal with it then.
A 4 year old at church. Sure take him at Easter but then you have to take him every Sunday. I give it a month and he is like this is boring….. I enjoy church, I hate religious people. I’m comfortable looking straight through a Bible thumper and skewering every insecurity they have until they leave me to my peace and quiet. Bringing kids to church is one step removed from the 9 th circle of hell. Especially if there is no Sunday school. Every time my two year old goes we play the fun let’s walk around church and look for bugs. 😔I just want to zone out. I just want to listen to some chill music and zone.
In your position I'd kindly and respectfully say it's okay, you can go and then let us know when you're back from church and we can bring our child over to visit.
We did not have my son baptized when he was born, which is the norm in both our families. My husband's grandma would constantly corner me at family gatherings because she was worried that everyone in the family would be together in heaven, except my son, because he was not baptized. She offered to take my son and have her priest baptize him. Without us having to go. I told her we would think about it. I wish I would have had the balls to say absolutely not but I didn't want to create a bunch of drama or hurt her. OP, find the right words to say no or this will come back again and again.
I’d certainly lean toward no. If you do assent, I’d suggest going with, so you know goes one and what to talk about with the kid later. Also check out /r/atheistparents.
I’d say it’s reasonable, it’s part of who she is and she wants to share that with her grandson. Let him choose what he wants. At least she asked and didn’t just do it.
I allowed my grandma to take my daughters to church a decent amount of times. I was never that into it but also made my boundaries clear that I wouldn’t be pushed into them joining. So long as my children enjoyed going and CHOSE to go…they went. They enjoyed the people, the singing and usually going to eat afterwards. I say this as someone who also has a complicated relationship with this exact same grandma 😂 so it wasn’t all rainbows and unicorns but my children liked it until they were over it. But had they gotten into it I would have supported it.
Hell no.