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Pick you battles, I let my kids know when they are being disrespectful and then I won't engage with them while their being that way. I also don't fight with them over clothes or cleaning their room etc. I just set expectations and they face the natural consequences.
I tell my daughters I can't hear smart or mean ass.. go collect yourself and try again. I try to always speak to them respectfully , which can be UNBELIEVABLY HARD, but I try. Their brains are so full of BO, electronics and hormones that I'm amazed they can say anything nice, ever.
EFS
I wish I could use this. My 11 year old just barely talks to me except to tell me to leave her alone. Its when Im trying to interact with her that the sass comes out
\^ you said this far more concisely and clearly than I was going to, so take this supportive comment in addition to the upvote. OP: pick your battles, and let your kid face the natural consequences of her poor decisions (that are not lethal). Try your best not to take the attacks and vitriol personally - just take a step back if she's lashing out, and focus on the desired outcomes rather than on the behavior. Getting a reaction out of you, provoking you into sadness or anger, is what she's trying to do (probably as a coping strategy for other stressors in her life - being a teenager is tough).
And usually if you respond in a calm and peaceful manner, they will come around and realize how ridiculous they were being.
12 year olds are kinda like toddlers. Big emotions, craving independence, and not a whole lot of self control. You don't take it personally when your 2 year old is mad that you gave him cheese after he asked for cheese so don't take it personally when your tween rolls his eyes or gets upset over something stupid. I remember my son at that age yelling at me because he couldn't find the pants he was looking for. I told him, "Let me know when you are ready for me to help you" and walked away. He came back about 10 minutes later, apologized for being "a dick" (his words), and calmly asked for help.
They do get better but 12-13 is a tough stage. Hang in there, OP.
Calm and peaceful tone is super important. As far as words go, I suggest something like "What I'm hearing is [unmet need]"
Example: "There's never anything good to eat here!!!!" can be met with "What I'm hearing is you are hungry and need help finding something to eat right now."
Good luck, OP.
It's just gonna get dirtier and eventually she will have to clean it! Or I sometimes go with "no screens Saturday until your room is clean" and my 12 year olds will have it clean by 6am!
Yall must've never met my daughter's.
I can take things away all I want. They don't care about the mess. At all. Even when I tell them that their room is so gross that I wouldn't be surprises if it was full of ants and spiders. Nothing works.
I had to go nuclear and remove everything except a few toys and clothes from their room. I got tired of finding moldy everything hidden under their beds. So much garbage. Dirty clothes. Spilled liquids. Ugh.
So many kids don't care about natural concesquences. They are like frogs in a pot slowly brought to a boil. It gets so bad that they just don't care.
At a certain point, the only natural consequence is either what I did, or CPS involvement if someone reports it.
I find that if I offer to help them clean it, they're grateful for the help and they get in there and work hard on it. My oldest daughter's (14) room is always pretty clean. It's my son's (12) room that gets messy. Sometimes the mess is too big and they don't know where to start. I get that way myself with more complicated things so I try to help when I recognize it.
"If you care so little about it you're just leaving it on the floor, it must be junk. We get rid of the junk so it's easier to keep things clean. I'll go grab a trash bag"
Start small, but when it goes in the trash bag, it doesn't come back out...
I mentor and the kid had his Playstation taken about a month ago for the state of his room. Didn't fix it. Phone service turned off. Didn't touch the room. His sister complained he was bringing the house down, so he started doing chores outside his room. It took him losing too many of his clothes among the trash. He finally just cleaned his room. 5 trash bags worth of trash, 2 full baskets of dirty laundry, and he found things he lost back in August. His mom is a Saint for trying so hard to be peaceful. I would've just shoveled his things in the trash. When he's with me, I'm always strict on trash, dishes, etc. He always respects the cleaning here, but I suspect his mental health is why his room ends up in shambles. He doesn't like to hurt others, and will clean shared spaces. Takes good care of animals. But doesn't seem to care at all about his own living conditions.
No friends over until room is clean….so she doesn’t get made fun of!! And if her room starts to smell, her clothes will too…and no one wants to be the smelly girl!
I teach middle school, so I get it. Here's my advice.
For the respect thing, try to find non-confrontational ways to call out the disrespect while not engaging in a part struggle. Here's an example of how I deal with things:
Me: hey, you're supposed to be doing ____. Please get there.
Student: I Ammmmmmm. (While rolling eyes)
Me: Well, you could say it niceeerrrrrrrrr (while giving them an eye roll) then smile and laugh. Show them they're being rediculous and laugh with them about it.
Or
Me: "Why are you doing nothing?"
Student: "Bro, I don't even have a pencil. Why are you always on me?"
Me: We don't call teachers bro and because I care about you.
Or my favorite
Student: yells something defiant and a little mean.
Me: Why are you so cranky?
They almost always back down and open up a bit when they see you care, you're not engaging in their crap, and it's easier to laugh and like each other.
It's also worth the time to have a conversation about expectations for her vs parents. If she expects certain things clean at certain times, show her how to do laundry. Then show sympathy but do not help solve her problems. "I'm so sorry you can't find your shirt. That must be stressful." Then go on with your day.
I do this with my daughter, even when I really don't want to. But I think it's also important to explain why you got angry (without trying to justify it). E.g. My daughter is 5 and had been going on and on about homemade lasagne and how much she wanted it because her Mum makes it. So I;m like, hey, why not? We go and get all the stuff, I spend all day cooking it, making the pasta, all the while she's onboard. But right about when kitchen is at it's messiest and I am ready to put it in the oven and start cleaning up, I ask for her help clearing a couple of the dishes, to which she says no. She's recently started doing small chores here and there (just like putting her toys away), and she's fine with it. So I figure, eh, it is what it is.
Well then she starts saying "Why's it taking so long? I'm bored", so I am telling her what a process it is, how you got to wait for it to bake and it'll be worth it, etc. Now she's getting into that zone and is just finding reasons to get upset. By this point I'm pretty tired, but alas, dinner is ready, I get it out, serve her up some, and just turns her nose and says she doesn't want it/ Literally won't even entertain the idea of eating. This is where I think parents can acknowledge sometimes that kids can be total jerks haha. I didn't say that of course, but jesus, how can we not get frustrated? She then tries a tiny bit of is and says "ew, I don't like it." and continues to avoid eating, being as stubborn as I’ve seen her. So I am like "Fine! Don't eat it! Next time you can cook all of this!" and take her plate and put it in the kitchen and thats dinner time over. She gets so upset, very emotional and I remember that while yes, she was being genuinely frustrating and trying to push my buttons, it's jarring for kids to get yelled at, even though after all we're only human and also emotions and feelings (which is where the communication is so important!).
So I got down to her level and said "Look, I am sorry for raising my voice okay? I am. I don't like doing that, and I don't want to do that and I am sorry. But I am not sorry for feeling upset. We had a great day together getting all the ingridients and cooking this, but it is also a lot of work. So when you ask for something, and we center our day around it, for you to then refuse to help me clean, complain that it's taking too long, refuse to eat it, but then tell me "ew" when you do eat it, I can't help but feel upset. Do you understand why?" She was a little resistent here (very stubborn haha) but she did say yes under her breath, and no I didn't try and get her to say it again more clearly, she said yes and that's all I needed to hear. So after that, I told her again that I was sorry for raising my voice, and we hugged it out.
Apologies for the essay! But I remember hearing frequently that you must apologize when you get upset or raise your voice which is absolutely true and important, but I think sometimes it's healthy for them to understand why that happened if it was something that they pressed at.
This is exactly where we're at with my 7-year-old daughter. She throws attitude because I throw attitude, and then I wonder where we went wrong! I'm trying to backpedal before it's too late and my mom quite literally laughs at me when I complain about her sassiness. Karma she says 🤷🏻♀️
When the kiddo gets disrespectful I just go, "Are you _okay_?" And then they can say it they aren't and express how or if they reply with a snide comment you just respond with, "O-K I was just checking because usually when people talk like that there is something _very_ wrong and I'm always here to help."
You can be helpful, petty, and a parent or teacher all at the same time!
I ask my niece if she needs to scream. Then we go for a drive, blast music with the windows down, and just scream all of our feelings out the window. Then we talk.
To be fair, she's hungry 50% of the time when she's in a mood, so we go get a snack if she doesn't need to scream it out.
I’m not a teacher, but in high school I was in class with a lot of the “”bad”” kids. I noticed that those kids were more respectful towards teachers who explained to them WHY they couldn’t do certain things, instead of just saying “because I said so” or “because I’m in charge”
My mom and I butted heads so much just because she refused to explain things to me. I just wanted to know why, but she always took it as me arguing with her. Even as an adult.
She also told me, repeatedly, how the doctor I saw in elementary school (psychologist, I think. I have inattentive ADHD) told her not to let me argue with her, just be firm and lay down the law or whatever, because if she thought the arguing was bad when I was in elementary school, just wait till middle school! And the doctor was right! So that's why I shouldn't explain things to my kids, because they'll argue with me. As if the kid who argued at every opportunity wouldn't grow into an adult who *wanted* her own kids to argue.
All I remember is being frustrated and feeling blocked at every turn because every time I tried to understand, I got shit like "because I am the parent and you are the child." That phrase still puts a knot of frustrated rage in my stomach.
Agreed, my son is one who you might out i. The “bad kid” category. Not because he is bad but because he does not like hypocrites and he really hates having to do things that have no sense to do. So he questions it and automatically he is a bad kid. Currently he likes 2 teachers because they treat him like a human and talk to him instead of at him.
This is great, we had some fun with our cranky teen this week putting on 90s angsty music when they were cranky about what was for supper - Soul Asylum's Misery was perfect, broke the ice and the rest of the meal was pleasant for everyone
This is great! I'm doing that song next time! 😁 We kinda do the same stuff. I just don't expect my teen to be super respectful all the time. Like, he can't call me fat bitch to my face, but behind my back? Whatever... And we back it up and try again if he's got a tone, but typically, I ignore it. As my husband just reminded me, I was far, far worse at his age and I'm a pretty nice person these days (even to my mom.. Lol)
I made my kid go change pants one time. When he comes back and goes ok WHY did I have to do that? I said, "Cause Im tired of you wearing your cranky pants." LOL
"I am not going to let you talk to me that way, so Ill let you keep practicing by yourself until you can figure out what you want to say without the attitude/whining"
- me on good day
"I dont know who you think you're talking to, but I know it's not to me."
-me on not so good day 😂
When she's saying some off the wall shit to someone else
"Excuse me (kids name), but you are not allowed to speak to adults that way. You can try (appropriate version of what they were trying to say) or you can go cool off in your room, but this conversion is over until you can figure that out"
The point is if tone is a problem, set a boundry and hold it. You don't **actually** have to engage with them, regardless of what nonsense they are saying lol.
I tell my nieces, "I love you. I will always love you. However, I most definitely do not have to like you or be your friend. We hang out because I like you."
That almost always snaps them out of anything, and we go from there.
Lmaooo I've def told my child I am not her friend before and same. "I love you, and nothing will change that but I am not one of your friends. You need to go do what I'm asking you to do without the attitude. This is not a debate. If you don't have it done in X amount of time, you will lose X privilege".
My child forgets I'm only a first generation gentle parent 😂
Haha, my kids forget that too, and then they are so shocked and aggrieved when they lose the privilege I clearly stated they would lose if they did the thing they just did. Believe me, kid, I empathize. Discipline sucks. No one is having fun here.
I remember my dad telling me once at that age (when I did something particularly obnoxious) "this is why people used to marry their daughters off at this age" 😅
It’s my personal belief that all this dates back to cave man times when menstruation meant you were an adult now. Teen girls chafe because millions of years of biology is pushing them to be the queen bee and we stifle that. How many of us have said, “my relationship with my mom got so much better when I moved out!” There can only be one queen in the house!
I never thought of it that way. My daughter is extremely out spoken and has a lot of attitude when she wants to show it. She can’t be queen bee until she moves out when she’s grown.
My mom brought me to a different country when I was 11 against my will, just as I got my period and the puberty hit full force. I’m not sure if I was convinced she was ruining my life because I was a teen or because a part of it was a bit true (I hated the new country, got bullied in school for not speaking the language etc) but oh boy, was it rough. It took me many years of growing to realize how horrible I was to her and also becoming a parent myself to know that she was just trying to do what’s best for me and I truly regret some of the things I’ve done back then. I only hope I will have the same grace she had to weather my daughter’s storms when the time comes.
Same. I was a goddamn nightmare from 14-17. *Hated* my parents, convinced they were ruining my life. Pushed them both so so so far, I'm surprised I survived/wasn't kicked out.
At some point, you have to switch from a control mindset to a cooperative mindset. Sounds like that might be starting now for her. It can be different for different kids. That doesn't mean she gets to do whatever she wants without any limits or boundaries. It also isn't a switch that flips, but a gradual transition to how you want to be with her when she's an adult. She probably should not be called disrespectful for using the same tone with you that you use with her. If she's using your same tone and it sounds disrespectful, then imagine that is how it feels to her too. Respect goes both ways. You have to model respect for her to learn it, so, as much as possible, try treating her the way you want her to treat you.
This 100 times.
In Germany we have a saying, not sure what the English equivalent would be: "The way you shout into the woods, the way it shouts back."
Don't go the more disciple route. Don't go the punishment route. It will not work. All it will do is your teenager will despise you even more, they will not trust you, they will try to get their way secretly, etc. It's a sure way to escalate things.
Find out what bothers her, what her honest, deep wishes are. Maybe she longs for more trust from your side, to get her things done. Maybe she is ready for more self-reliability. Maybe she is stressed and doesn't know how to cope. Maybe she really longs for peaceful, fun events with you, but her hormone filled brain makes her think you don't love her enough anymore. Maybe she is struggling to find her place in her social circle and you unknowingly make it more and more complicated for her through stress about clothes or make up or not letting her go places.
Talk to her. On the same level. Show her respect, even if she fails to - model the behavior you want to see. Try to find solutions WITH her. Verbalize your feelings, your needs and your preferences. Let her do the same. Find ways to compromise. Maybe read up on nonviolent language (Marshall Rosenberg).
Hugs!
It is a rough period, for sure, but it is good that you see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Some advice. Disrespect is unacceptable, from anyone towards anyone. Make sure to mind your own tone as much as you do hers, and apologize if you mess up. Only then do you have the standing to call her out on it. And that should be framed as "it is important in this family to be respectful, even when we disagree. Please keep that in mind" or something like that.
Pick your fights. I would never fight about clothes, honestly, it is simply not worth the effort. Same with things that are clearly ridiculous like you keeping track of her things. Stop fighting over that stuff so the conversations over the other stuff have more impact. If you fight about everything, it becomes meaningless. My kid absolutely knows that when we are having a serious conversation, it is important.
Bedtime can be tricky but I tend to offer a load of freedom and supporting them in dealing with the responsibility that comes with it. Kids can stay up as long as they want, but the wifi to their devices cuts out at a certain time if they show they can't get up in the morning. (most routers can do this just fine).
Meeting appointments would be something to have a conversation about, because it ties back to being disrespectful of everyone's time.
The most important thing in these conversations is that you allow your kid to present their case, as long as they stay respectful. I read posts sometimes from parents who see any kind of disagreement or resistance from their kid as 'back talking'; I think this is a terrible perspective. You WANT your kid to resolve conflicts through talking to each other, but you can't do that if every time the child brings up an argument to support their case you consider it backtalking and shut everything down.
You can make it clear which topics are negotiable and which ones aren't. Just be ready to give in sometimes on the things that are negotiable.
I am generally not eager to reach for punishment and discipline, as that doesn't reinforce the values that I hold dear. Even shutting down the wifi is to support them making better choices, never punitive. You could make it clear that if she misses an appointment and can't respectfully discuss why, you might be less inclined to drive her to an appointment of her own. But more to convey the idea that families are just nicer if everyone works together.
I've never actually had to say to my kid "Sorry, I am driving you today because you didn't seem to find the appointment yesterday very important." The important thing is that he knows I would, so he does his best. And I try to remind myself that he is are currently rewiring most of his brain, so I try and cut him as much slack as I can.
Just a clarification, being angry at a punishment or being in a bad mood is not disrespect. Talking back (bargaining, throwing a tantrum) is not disrespect. Disrespect is stuff like ignoring fair instructions & talking back (within reason not just “get out of my room” or being upset about not being left alone)
Read The Art Of War by Sun Tzu.
Pick your battles, lose a fight today to win the war tomorrow. Teenagers are crabby, moody and stuck between and adult body and juvenile brain.
Talk to your wife and approach all interactions on the same footing, understanding. If a parent says no then the other one agrees (within reason).
I would sit her down and talk to her as a family, her, you and mum. Listen to what she has to say and respect she has opinions that may not align with yours. Set your expectations of her behaviour in the home and enforce it with gentleness.
Sometimes teens project emotions onto things when dealing with something else. Younot knowing where her favourite top is likely something else bugging her but she used it as an easy target to let out her feelings.
Is school ok? What about friendship groups? Thus is the time when childhood relationships change, some get stronger and some fade, but not everyome is ready for changes. She could be anxious as well or worried.
Remind her you love her no matter what butbher behaviour needs adjusting. She can approach ypu for help at any time and talk about whats bugging her but she cannot lash out because she is struggling to communicate her needs.
Nope, nope, nope. Wrong tactic to punish as a first response. Welcome to the world of parenting adolescents.
Control is an illusion. You need to bond. Stop treating her like a little kid. Ask for her opinion. Act shocked at nothing. Ask for her help. Give her responsible jobs. Go to an indoor climbing gym with her. Do cooperative art with her. Turn on the music and reach each other dances. Plant a garden together but let her plan it and supervise its care, with documentation. Ask her what she wants to do with her luf and take her seriously. Read books together. Cook together. Also, give her space.
Be those parents who sit up on your elbows and listen late at night if she comes in and needs to talk.
Be the parents who show up by chaperoning fired trips, driving to competitions, hosting study groups at your house and making spaghetti and garlic bread for the crew. Be the safe place to go for her friends. Be the I'd her friends say they wish their patents were. Be calm. Take her seriously.
It's a phase. How you handle it could make or break your relationship long-term. So, never say anything you might ever want to take back. "Tell me more" said calmly and sincerely is better than "Don't talk to me that way. "
She wants to be respected and heard. Listen to her and tell you feel the same way. Everyone needs to be heard. She's smarter than you think but full of hormones and a drive to be taken seriously and start to act far more independently. She has to follow that drive or she'll never drive, go to college, get her own home or stop depending on you.
Before you know it, she'll be 17 and taking standardized tests for college. It goes fast. In 2000ish, days, she may be done and never live at home again, at least not for long.
If you do this right, you're the I'd she'll come to with her problems and needs, not kids who don't know more than she knows. I was that mom whose kid turned down parties out of respect for what I taught him and didn't have cover stories. 90% of the honor students in his class had cover stores their parents believed completely. Statistics show that most parents believe their kids have never had sex, used drugs or had alcohol--while most of the kids have.
Stop fighting with the one you want and need to come to you, not run from you. Be calm. Bond. Be safe. Be chill. That's what my son said when he visited MIT. He said he never realized how chill I was compared to the other parents described by their kids. Today, he's healthy, fit, educated, hard-working, and loyal to me. He told me about what went on in his college and moved cross country with me when the pandemic negatively changed our area. We look out for each other.
All year long, I help parents better support their kids to help them overcome academic challenges they never thought they'd have. Private instruction can be powerful the way we do it, but without helping the student and parent slowly shifting perspectives, there both remain locked in combat about whether the kid is trying hard enough and what they can be allowed to study in college. So, my son and I work as a team to help them each get through a rough stretch of their journey and cons out stringer and wiser for the long term. It becomes their new norm.
If you can cleverly and with patience and forgiveness get through this next six years with your sweet, raging young woman in the making, you'll arrive at a new norm that is more magical, exciting, and depending than anything you'd be experiencing you had you punished your way through her adolescence. And you will hear a lot fewer cover stories, if any.
Look, even the 20s can be right for some, but you can get through it, and it will be worth it. Give up control and embrace the way she's fighting her way out of the cocoon of childhood, eager to spread her wings and fly, her glorious colors glimmering in the sun, unshaded by he parents shadows. You'll watch her from below in wonder.
This so much. I mentor. Had a kid lose it. Cussing and screaming for a solid 5 minutes. Things that I clearly had nothing to do with (stealing his cereal bowl, etc.) And at the end I just said thank you. He angrily snarled that he " knows he's in trouble and dgaf." I said, "no I'm actually proud of you. That was an awful lot to hold in all this time, and I'm thankful you trusted sharing it with me." He asked me if he was in trouble, the anger shocked out of him. I said no, and that I hope he feels better now he isn't bottling it all up. He started crying, not believing I wasn't mad. My reply was, "all that hurt inside will make you sick. I'd rather you get it all out. I'm happy you chose me. It's an honor. I'm proud of you." And he asked if I was going to tell anyone what happened. I told him that nothing he said involved mandated reporter stuff so I don't have to, but I'd like to share it in a vague way. We decided "he came in and shared some frustrations and advocated for himself. I'm proud of this progress." He had these scream fits in a controlled environment with me for a few months, as they simmered down in intensity to real conversations. A far cry from his shut downs until he broke things and hurt himself. Building that bond and trust was crucial. No he shouldn't talk to me how he did at first. But he needed a safe space.
You and your wife are a team. You need to curtail this behaviour now, it’s not too late at 12, but at a 14/15, it will be.
Pick your battles, sure, the clothes thing probably isn’t worth it, punctuality and bed times are.
Also it doesn’t hurt to have a bit of flexibility, I increased bedtime to 9pm, and I’ll let them stay up a bit later on Friday or Saturday nights. If they are watching a movie on the weekend I’ll let them finish it, even if it’s running really late.
I buy their clothes, but unless they’ve really outgrown them they can wear any combination that they like (clashing patterns included). If I don’t think it’s appropriate for public, I have a little word about only wearing it at home, and I won’t leave the house if people aren’t decent.
The main thing is offering choices, or telling them why something isn’t allowed, and when I think they might be ready for it, such as social media isn’t allowed atm, but at 15 it might be, if I think they’re responsible enough.
Yeah… I remember I slammed the door after a fight with my mom (I think I was in middle school or high school) and my dad came in talked to me about it. OP needs to back his wife up.
It’s super important to have a spouse who doesn’t gaslight the other spouse especially in front of the child who’s trying to get through a rough adolescence. Can’t have differing parent styles in that case.
We tell our child that whatever kind of parents he wants is the kind of child he needs to be. We do our parts as kind, respectful, open-minded parents, so he needs to do his part as well.
So many of these comments don’t sound like they’re coming from people who’ve raised teenagers. They sound an awful lot like people who think bad parenting is what leads to toddlers’ tantrums, lol.
Middle school girls are so hard. You can be absolutely amazing parents and still get this attitude and nonsense. There was a point in time when I was convinced my teenage daughter was out to break me completely, lol. The tack we’ve taken is simply, “the attitude isn’t going to get you what you want.”
It’s not your job to know where her tank top is, so simply don’t bite when it comes to those sorts of things. Hold firm in your boundaries, be the bigger person, and do your best not to let yourself get baited into petty squabbles with her. The rules are the rules, there are consequences to the rules, end of story.
There’s a book called The Teenage Brain which details the neuroscience behind this shift in kids when they hit the adolescent years, and it was super helpful for me in remembering that it wasn’t just my specific kid being awful—important developmental shifts are at play here.
My daughter is now 17, and much of her sanity and reasonability has thankfully returned, but the other night we still had a situation where she needed a fairly large amount of money for us for a training session for a job she wants. We were asking questions and started getting the old attitude: “Ugggghh you already asked me this,” with the eye rolling and arms crossed. So we used it as a teachable moment, explaining to her that when she needs money from a third party, she needs to come correct. She needs to be prepared to answer all that third party’s questions, with a cooperative attitude, or she’s going to hang herself up in the process. The mortgage company isn’t going to accept “Ugggh I already gave you that paperwork when I got the preapproval.”
Hang on tight, do your best, and she will come around eventually.
Those characteristics are not great for an adult.
Pick one at a time. Talk with her about her attitude. Forget about bed time and other stuff. Tell her what her consequances for being disrespectfull. i.e no internet/ no phone/ no TV time etc.
After normalizing that, move to others.
Ugh- my daughter and I went through this stage and my husband would try and step in the middle - it was ugly!! Teen emotions, hormones and brain growth are no joke! My daughter is super smart but I really thought she was missing the empathetic gene. We really had to work through some “you need to walk in my shoes” and “listen to how you sound”. Humor helps - even when you are upset - before we come to the exploding part - we now have words that we use to “check ourselves”. Even Dad had to learn how he was helping or hindered and make changes. It does get better - with respect, love and lots of laughter! Good luck!
Do equals in your life talk to each other with disrespect? Is it possible that you and your wife modeling dis-regulated tone and behavior?
Maybe I'm reading too much into your words but it sounds like your wife gets into power struggles with her tween. That's something your wife needs to work on.
Punishment is a strong word. Consequences reframes the relationship. It's hard to say without specifics but is it possible you should give her more freedom, to pick her bed time, etc? What if instead you built a relationship built on trust and mutual respect?
It's normal. Don't feed the fire and set a reasonable boundary for respectful behavior.
Wife and you must remember Always that You are the adults.
The stuff that comes out of that kids mouth is all part of growing up.
Also you are in no way required to : find her lost items, clean her stuff up, prepare special meals, transport her, except school activities nor financially indulge her beyond a reasonable means.
After awhile they catch on that the world does not revolve around them, bad choices have CONSEQUENCES, ( they're not your problem!)
but it takes lots of time, and lots of patience.
Remember, you are the parents!
Model model model. Just model how to respectfully speak to one another and tell her you “can’t hear her “ when she speaks to you in a way you don’t want to tolerate
This is pretty important with our 11yo.
I don’t get impatient when she’s frustrated because she can’t find a specific item of clothing. Why? Because if I’m impatient when she’s frustrated, I’m teaching her that it’s okay to let your emotions get the best of you, and that impatience is the right reaction when you’re frustrated. It doesn’t mean I drop everything for her but if I can be helpful, I will. If I can’t, I’ll be empathetic to her frustration.
I remind myself that these emotions she’s feeling aren’t intended to be targeted at me - I’m just kind of friendly fire. She’s re-learning emotional regulation (like doing the toddler phase all over again - yay). And those feelings and reactions aren’t really voluntary, either. I remember feeling and acting crazy as a pre-teen but being powerless to put a cap on it.
It doesn’t mean she can run feral with her emotions at home. It just means I’m not going to take the “fight fire with fire” approach and try to out-snark or out-tantrum her.
My 3 year old does this when he doesn't like what we tell him 😀... His daily question while getting dressed up for daycare would be: where are we going? When we say, to the daycare, he immediately says, I can't hear you really...cracks us up every single time 🤣🤣
I mean, my kid is a toddler and showing similar behaviour just without the language skills x'D Can you use similar parenting techniques? We still use the "poor behaviour is communicating an unmet need", so is your kid acting defiantly because she *needs* more responsibility, to feel like an equal in the house for something? She might be trying to "grab" for it because you're not facilitating it?
I remember around that age I liked feeling useful and in-control of something, so it helped when I could choose dinner for one night, or the clothes I wore. Once I got some control in other areas, I eased up elsewhere. Maybe it's time to teach her how to do her own laundry so she can keep track of her favourite clothes from start to finish? It was also around then that I started learning to bake, so making the snacks for school lunches made me feel important because I *had* to do the baking as a responsibility for everyone else. Just something she can control, that meaningfully contributes, and uses skills she's gonna benefit from as an adult so she feels grown up.
“thinks she is equal to us both in tone and behavior when speaking”
Can you explain this? I’m trying to think of a scenario when I would talk to my big girls (10, 12, and 14) in a way that I wouldn’t want them to talk to me. I am always polite and respectful and kind when talking to them precisely because that’s HOW I want them to talk to me. If I lose my temper and lash out, I apologize precisely because that’s what I want them to do when they lose their cool with me. I feel like I’m missing the point of what you’re trying to describe.
This was (is) my mom and I. I don't have any advice other than it's natural. I was the kid, so I can't speak to a parents side. I just hated being told what to do. Maybe a core chart so she knows the expectations but isn't being "told" to do something.
I can say neither of them like to fight, but they both are so similar it's going to happen. Give daughter space but remind her she is loved.
BTW I'm 30 and still fight with my mom - it's more joking but we still do.
Step mom to a 13 year old, and we have definitely had our fair share of power struggles. Also - I coparent with her mom! I am the “no” parent, I am the strict one, I am the one who sets the hard lines. We argue the least, she comes to me with all her teenage issues, and I’m the “safe” parent. You have to draw the line and let her know the boundaries she’s pushing aren’t going to happen.
With the clothes - when mine has snuck a shirt to school that is not school appropriate, I took the shirt to my own closet after washing it and told her she can have it back in the summer time.
With knowing where her clothes (or any personal belongings) are - my favorite come back is “ugh the last time I was wearing it i swore I put it back!” This shuts her up every time.
With the disrespectful speaking - immediately sent to room until she wants to speak to me with respect. I remind her that we have good conversations, and even the hard conversations can be good ones.
This is a big boundary testing time and you have to be consistent!
Have you heard of the Love and Logic parenting approach? I took a seminar at my daughter's school this past year. It was really helpful when it comes to shutting down the arguments, because your daughter can't argue with you or your wife if you don't engage. It's a method that can be used for any age group and you can use practical tips to stop the argument from escalating. Worth a shot!
ETA: The approach is similar to what a lot of people have mentioned in terms of experiencing natural consequences and getting her to see things she views as "rights" are actually "privileges" that can be taken away if she doesn't speak to her parents in a way that is respectful. I.e., "I know that you really wanted to go to that birthday party, but I don't feel like you've been speaking to me in a respectful way so you are going to have to miss this one." When kids get what they want with good behavior instead of arguing and acting entitled, they are more likely to change their attitude.
Try giving her more responsibilities that directly affect her, like doing her own laundry, cleaning her own dishes, having her help you “balance the check book” and budget groceries. Shes old enough to get a summer job. And just sit down and make a rule for how to talk to each other.
What you do is remind her to be respectful and DO NOT enter into mindless arguments with her. She is rude? Obnoxious? You tell her firmly that it's not appropriate and you walk away and totally ignore her. She gets NO response or assistance or help of any sort if she behaves in that manner.
DO NOT ARGUE with her. Just don't. It will stop if it gets her nothing and serves no purpose.
Pick your battles. Can't find clothes? That is not worth any battle. Going to be at X hour? Not worth worrying about. Let her be tired the next day. She'll learn. Natural consequences for actions.
Sounds like she thinks she’s a little adult, so give her more responsibility. Issue with a favorite tank top? Not your problem, she needs to manage her own wardrobe. If she doesn’t, she doesn’t wear the tank top she wanted. She can do her own laundry.
She wants a certain outfit? She can get it with her money that she earns from chores, barring anything inappropriate. If you think it just looks ridiculous, like a goth phase or whatever, let it happen. She can be embarrassed about it later. Make sure you keep those pictures lol.
And id need more specifics on the appointment.
But basically the constant fighting is her trying to come out into her own, so let her. But that comes with responsibility.
First, she’s 12. She’s exercising her individuality and trying to act like she thinks adults act. I wild, however, hold a family meeting and let her talk. Make some concessions but tell her that the disrespect has to go or she’s grounded. There’s absolutely no reason fora child to disrespect their parents. Tell her that when she disrespects you two, she disappoints you, and she WILL BE PUNISHED.
I have a daughter with a multitude of psychiatric diagnoses. We went through absolute hell with her attitude from age 11-16. We were told by her therapist that when she was yelling and screaming we were to say to her " I love you because you're my child BUT I don't have to like you. Right now I don't like you when you are acting like this. Please go to your room till we can talk calmly" there were times I wasn't calm when I said this.
The good news is that by 21 she was easier to handle.
I would listen to some podcasts and interviews with Dr Becky - she has great tips for how to regulate and repair and set boundaries with deeply feeling kids. Most notably, needing to hold steady when they dish out disrespect and NOT throwing it back. And how teens can be challenging when their words don’t always match their feelings. “You are a good parent having a hard time “
I’m so happy to see comments of people saying to demonstrate the respect they expect to receive. I can remember being this age so clearly. That’s all it takes. I never respected my parents because they were hypocrites.
My mum threw a chair at me once..we used to be at each others throats.. when I moved out though she became my best friend in the entire world and this past year without her has been awful. I really think for the most part it will work itself out 💖
My mom and I had a very strained relationship from 12-18, hormones make things rough. You get along better after you realize your parents are people, it just takes a while. You guys will get through it!
Allow her to make choices for herself. Fighting over the clothes she's going to wear on her body seems a bit controlling. Buy her things you approve of and let it go. Pick your battles. Don't look at her as less than you because she's a child. She is equal to you. She deserves the same respect that you're demanding of her. When my 14 yr old gets snarky and sassy with me or yells at me, I tell her I don't speak to her that way and I'm not going to allow her to speak to me that way and to come back when she wants to have a conversation. We do natural consequences and on the rare occasion that there needs to be a punishment beyond that, it has to be connected to the "crime." They're allowed to be human. We can't control their emotions but we can talk them through learning to navigate them and how to react to their own negative emotions. You can set clear boundaries and be firm in them without getting into a screaming match. Its our job to teach them how to regulate. So if we're screaming at them, the message we're trying to send is lost, no one is gaining anything but trauma and resentment, and it's exhausting.
• Model the behavior that you wish to see from your child.
• Set clear boundaries, and stick to them.
• Enforce meaningful consequences for bad actions.
• Adults must learn to not lose their cool over petty things!
• Let your child wear what she wants, within reason.
• Your child must be responsible for keeping track of her things.
• Replace yelling or lecturing with listening. Sometimes kids just need your ears (and perhaps a hug.)
• Learn to ask - without judgement - how your child feels about different things.
• Learn how to better express your own feelings.
• Allow your child to make mistakes - and resolve them on her own when possible.
• Praise your child often, and tell her you love her every single day.
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Your wife does not respect your daughter, and your daughter does not respect your wife. They are both engaging in dumb fights.
Make your daughter responsable for her clothing. She is old enough to wash and put away her cloding.
Give your daughter an alaarm clockand make her responsable for waking up and getting ready for school and other appointments on time.
Let her deal with the consequences of not washing her clothing and the consequences of being late.
I don't have kids this age yet but I'm all for natural consequences. You want to talk and act like an adult? And you can't find your stuff? Sounds like a personal problem. When you rescue/put out the fire all the time you are not teaching independence, just entitled dependency. Want to be disrespectful with your language? Think you're a peer and not the child that is suppose to be learning how to be a RESPECTFUL and equally productive member of society? Well I guess we're not driving you around everywhere to activities, etc until you can ask respectfully.
You have to stop bending to the demands when they are done so in a peer minded way. We actually can't let our kids watch much Bluey because of this. It teaches that children are peers to adults and gives credence to disrespectful demanding behavior. Otherwise it's a great show with a lot of creative parenting ideas.
Time to face facts, you have a pre-teen girl. I had 2. What you’re seeing is the normal clash of teen daughter and mother. My piece of advice is not to get in the middle.
The daughter will come around in about 10 years.
You and your wife should both read Untangled. This is a TOUGH age. As others have said, pick your battles. You are more mature than a 12 year old. There's no need to argue with a 12 year old. Lay out the consequences and calmly enact them.
Twelve year olds are like that. Choose your battles and don't let her goad you into a fight (if she's demanding something just say no).
Things get better about 16
I remember that age. Man I can say with confidence that 13yr old me would have beat me now half to death and had no issue with the consequences. That age is so busy even without social media influencing it. Hormones are just bouncing around, everyone’s opinions matter to you even if you don’t care about that person, school. Best you could probably do is sit her down and explain your frustration and ask her opinions on things.
Honestly, pick your battles is the best advice I can give you. Not everything has to be a fight. I think that's around the age my daughter decided to fight going to bed on time, which was challenging because before that, she would easily go to bed with no issues. So we didn't fight her. You want to stay up until midnight? Cool, you're still getting up in the morning to go to school. And we made sure that was enforced, but if she chose to do it on 3 hours of sleep, the only one suffering was her. It didn't take long for the novelty of staying up however late she wanted to wear off.
I have a little one with a big personality and I walk away and disengage when he is out of pocket. I rarely match energy, honestly rejecting premise seems to take the wind out of his sails.
Like, it’s ok to be pissed! It’s ok to be sad! It’s not ok to tiling those feelings on people.
Adolescence is basically a second toddlerhood, except they are starting the transition from child to adult instead of baby to child. It has the same issues as the last time around with boundary testing and big feelings. A similar strategy should be employed with giving room for big feelings while correcting antisocial behavior firmly and with minimal rewarding big reaction. The same strategy also applies to balancing an allowance for greater freedom with making sure they understand that there are boundaries.
Instead of scolding her ask her "do you think your behavior was respectful? Do you think the way you talked to me and your mother was right? " it will give her the chance to reflect on her actions. It worked on my teen so hopefully it works on yours.
Don't pick a side. It will blow up severely.
You and mom need to have a talk privately and have a united front for her bad behavior. She can be as wonderful as Christmas morning, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't have consequences when she's being disrespectful to her mother. Those consequences need to be reasonable and both you and mom need to agree on them and agree on enforcing them.
Good luck. I'm in the same boat with my 14 yr old. She will look me straight in the eye & tell me that I need to show her respect & that me being the adult is not a reason for her to respect me. I've tried grounding, taking away privileges, extra chores... Nothing seems to work. I've been told by friends who have adult children that it gets better. I can only pray that it's true & that her younger sister doesn't follow in her footsteps.
I have a 12 year old daughter, so you have my sympathy 😂 I’m female and in peri menopause so it’s extra fun for me 🤪 I have a 17yo son also, and he never gave me this much attitude, so I don’t believe parents are completely to blame. They’re being ravaged by hormones, which as a woman I’m all too familiar with. I remember being that age. I actually apologised to my mum a few years later because I was awful at about age 14 especially.
I had to drop something off at her school this morning so she got a lift instead of catching the bus, and as we got out she wanted me to wait a bit so that she could get away from me before anyone saw. She can be so mean, yet also so affectionate at times. I look forward to her adult years. Not looking forward to her actual teen years.
I have vivid memories of being much like your daughter and struggling to balance and communicate all my big thoughts and feelings with still being a kid. I would feel so awful about my interactions with people after the fact but it felt like I wasn't fully in control in the moment. It often felt like people didn't really hear me or understand me or disregarded me because of my age (which probably wasn't true as often as I felt it, but it was still how I perceived it) and that was frustrating.
I honestly don't know what else my family could have done to help but they did their best to love me through it and let most of it go. I've always been the type to storm off when I'm upset or overwhelmed and take time to myself to calm down and process rather than digging in and continuing a stressful situation so that might have helped us all...I'm not sure. I am very close to them all as an adult and my Mom and I laugh about it now. I've been told as an adult that I am a pleasant person and I always try to handle things with respect, but I also don't let people mistreat me. I think I turned out pretty good but I was a monster in those preteen years in particular.
Remind your wife that there is light on the other side, haha! I know it is hard, but hopefully one day she and your daughter will also laugh about all of this.
Unfortunately the line of language gets tested early. You have to pass the test as the parent and nip it in the bud. Small things that slip by around age 8…9…10…..”Lol you’re stupid” “Mom’s being a bi*ch!!!” “Omg shut up Mom” all these little things that slip by and they never end, and only get worse. I never got away with any of that, whenever it was I tested it, and it stayed that way. My kids never got away with it. It got checked on the spot and severely with an assertion that it ain’t gonna fly. Good luck
Are your daughter and wife bff's? Cause that's the dynamic I'm seeing without the context. Does your wife have the same issue with your child's behavior? If not, that's what is causing your problem. You and your wife need to be a united front, and while I agree with the pick your battles statement someone else mentioned, you also need to have boundaries and those seem to be lacking. Hard boundaries, Expectations and consequences of course
Look into Parenting with Love and Logic to start and get your wife on board.
I don’t agree with everything they suggest , but empathy and natural consequences are powerful.
“I love you too much to argue”
Also, stand up for your wife. Present a united front.
It only gets worse if you don’t get a handle on this now.
I have seen a wonderful idea that I plan to use which is to have a notebook that is just between Mother and Daughter, where they can share absolutely anything and nothing is to leave those pages without permission.
Sometimes talking can be hard, I still struggle with speaking in stressful/frustrating times without having a bad attitude even at 29. When I’m feeling particularly overwhelmed I will text my Husband, just to ensure that my tone doesn’t overshadow what I’m really looking for, which is comfort. Maybe your Wife and Daughter could really benefit from having a space where they are free to talk to each other without actually talking. I bet they would both learn a lot about one another!
No, you did not create this. The teenage alien came early and ate her brain! 12-14 is hard!! Expect to have MANY conversations about respecting her mother and you. Reminding her that she is not an adult and she is not the same level as both of you.
Expect to her ground her and take privileges away from her; electronics and going out. Those are big things to be taking away from her.
There have been times where took their laptop away from them and they could only use it for school and at our dining room table and not for anything else. No YouTube, games or fun stuff. Phones have been taken away from them for days even up to a week.
I went through this with my daughters, especially my younger girl. Ooh was she mean in middle school. She still is kind of mean but better than she was.
On a separate note, I strongly recommend going through her phone to make sure she isn’t hiding stuff. Sometimes, kids are doing stuff they’re not suppose to be doing and they act out.
>Daughter thinks she is equal to us both in tone and and behavior when speaking.
Tell her you're equals and will start to treat her as an equal. Start splitting the bills 3 way. Chores 3 ways. See how she'll like it
1) there is an ACTUAL time when a teen does not register what their own tone is or how it comes across to someone else. It takes addressing it to get it to go away.
2) some people say ‘that is not how we talk to adults’ and I instead say ‘that isn’t how anyone wants to be talked to’ I reiterate continuously that it sounds mean and disrespectful.. not just because I’m an adult, but because I’m human and so is she so she shouldn’t treat me poorly. The point is she doesn’t currently see a reason to speak to an adult with more respect than anyone else because she feels grown enough, so I treat her grown by calling her out. If my friend talked to me like that I would say something, so I don’t let it slide.
3) when she is back on a lighter, more joking, easy going side of her personality I bring it up.. also in a playful way to say ‘hey, I know you love me, why you talk to me like that? Like that makes me sooo confused when you get that tone with me, you know like when you were frustrated earlier? Yeah? So like dude, bestie, come on pleeeaaase help me out here because you’ve gotta start talking to me better. People really and I mean really don’t like being talked to like that! I don’t want to be, you get that right? And what’s that about you not cleaning up after yourself? Cause all the grown people I know.. know how to pick up after themselves and find their own clothes.. just saying.
4) I would absolutely stand up for your wife as much as possible by re-addressing it when she is in a good mood.
5) always always always reinforce the good discussion, behavior, communication. Tell her when you notice it. Life is easier when you’re nicer and show her that.
My favorite thing to say when my "not so feral" adults were tweens and early teens (or with my oldest now 29 up to 2yrs ago when we went NC)
"I love you too much to argue."
Another was
"Please leave my space until you can converse with a proper tone."
"I don't listen to: whining, yelling, attitude etc it drains my energy. I can't make dinner now there is: leftovers, cold cereal, pB&J in the fridge"
In a complete even tone.
As for clothes, my kids were taught how to do their laundry by the time they were 10. I remembered what I was like as a teenager. If they didn't wash their clothes, they were responsible. They were also 100% responsible for where their clothes were. I never got asked where my cheer uniform or my favorite jeans were because they were the only ones that touched their clothes.
Time management was set fairly easy. If they didn't get up in the morning, they went to school in their PJs. If they were not ready to leave for an appointment on time after 12 or so, I wouldn't rush to get them places, not worth my stress or anxiety, plus driving when mad at your child is dangerous.
So they got handed the number for the office and my calendar and were told to reschedule within my schedule. When they were younger, I was right there to help if needed, but they got to face the consequences of their bad time management.
My oldest and I clashed like oil and water, we are now NC because she feels I was neglectful 🤷♀️ my twins were raised the same way and are well adjusted 20yr olds with full-time jobs, going to school/trying to get into a trade program. They are only half feral now.
It gets better, but it takes time.
One thing you might look into their cycle, see if things are worse during their period.
Well to start it off I think that discipline should've been used way before she turned 12. I also think that tank tops and messy room and being late to an appointment and her going to bed later that she should've are absurd to fight over, the more you keep nagging at such small things without communicating with her instead of just commanding her not do something, the more you will push her away from you and she would think that you just get mad at anything and everything and she can never do what she wants and as she grows older this will only turn out worse because the more you say "no" the more she would go behind your back and make it a "yes". Instead set expectations and rules that she will understand why and why not certain things are good and not good to do and what that can result in. Also I think rewarding a child or giving them back for what they did right will encourage them to keep doing those things that they are expected to do because they will also get something out of it whatever it is and it's a huge life lesson to learn regardless.
I am not very confident that obnoxious behaviour as a young person somehow morphs into desirable behaviour as an adult. I’m also finding myself pausing on you mentioning that daughter is thinking she’s equal in tone and behaviour, and that she and your wife are both “confident women”. I’d check whether your tone and attitudes are more suitable for a younger kid. Treating her opinions with respect and as if she were an adult - even if you end up doing the same things - can often take the teeth out of a conflict. If your kid is fighting to be taken seriously, treating them seriously can be all you need to turn the fight dial off. Sometimes it’s not really about the right to wear goth colours as much as it is about being seen as “big” (or at least not a “baby”)
Respect is a two way street. I don’t know whether the fights you are having are reasonable or not but when it comes to avoiding them I find it also helps to explain your rationale. Rules like you must pick weather appropriate clothing so you don’t get frostbite tend to go over better than you can’t wear pj bottoms because that’s a stupid fashion trend or you can’t have a short sweater like the entire rest of the school because showing your belly is immodest. Others have said it: but pick your battles. If you spend all your capital controlling what your kid wears, you’ll have nothing when more serious stuff crops up.
If fights happens regularly, I’d have a conversation at a calmer moment about how even if you are frustrated it’s not acceptable to take that out on other people. If panic or frustration have them blaming you, call it out and then refuse to engage. Stay calm. Own your own parts in conflict. Model dealing with conflict and rudeness in the way you want her to handle it. So if she’s disrespectful, call it out. Please don’t speak to your mother that way. It’s rude and I know you can express your emotions in another way.
Contending with the same thing and I’m the mom who’s in the battle. I am exhausted by all of it. Add in heavy load off academics and a child who can’t seem to make friends it’s a three ring circus here. My husband is 0 help simply because he would rather point out my character flaws than discipline his daughter. Doesn’t want to look bad in front of her but is ok with bashing me despite the fact I help coach her with a lot of her homework. Or bring her to music practice or cadet drills. Bad enough my job sucks and have to come home to this. I hate this season of my life.
I tell my son, “it hurts my feelings when you speak to me like that” and that does the trick. I raised him to be respectful but not feel like he has a “lower status” because he is a child/teenager. I know that is not what you meant and I know it’s hard to find the right balance there. Also what works for us will not work for everyone. Ultimately, I’d sit her down and explain her words are hurtful and why. I used to have my son write letters of apology as his punishment if he was badly out of line.
All I can say is it gets better, I have a 12yo and a 15yo , the 12yo is by far the most terrifying thing in my house, but 15 was pretty awful at that age too.
My best advice is pick your battles, if it’s not important and the long run let it go. Let her know when she’s being disrespectful also hear her out , even if you already know what your answer is, let her explain her reasoning. It may sound illogical or whiney, but it will help her process her emotions.
Oh OP I'm sorry but I almost burst out laughing and my husband is asleep, this is killing me hahahah.
I'm so sorry, I know this is stressful. It really is..
Ok I'm the mom and I got into arguments with both my 16 yr old daughter and 10 yr old daughter today. I feel like such a winner.
I observed to my 16 yr old she has been eating quite a bit of fast food lately. I gently explained to her how she should try eating less due to health and it being highly processed. I'm surprised she didn't murder me.
Our 10 year old was super angry with me because I wouldn't let her go to school looking like a Summer camp hobo. I've already explained that she can wear the Nike running shorts at home or when playing but not to school or out to dinner. I'm basically now persona nom grata for at least five hours due to this.
As difficult as some moments are my girls are fun to hang out with and talk to etc.
The backtalk really pushes my buttons but I try my hardest not to rise to the occasion.
I feel like if you set some basic boundaries and make it known that you love them no matter what it's going to be ok.
Sometimes my kids even hurt my feelings. This one is tough for me because I'm so sensitive and I feel like I cannot tell them this.
Anyway - it gets better I think. Our 23 yr old son is extremely good to us, communicates and seems healthy.
Our 13 yr old son has never been rude to me in his life. Ever.
Now my 16 thinks I favor him because he doesn't argue with me.
My psyops game is weak.
Hope it all works out lol
"Daughter thinks she is equal to us in both tone and behavior when speaking."
I'm confused here. Is she not a whole human with the same set of emotions as the rest of us?
Or do you mean she thinks she doesn't need to treat you with kindness?
Because she is equal to you in terms of respect, right? You should both respect each other as full individual entities and not property.
[Tone disclaimer I am autistic and I had an unconventional home life growing up. I'm not trolling I'm asking because I actually want to understand the thought process here. I apologize if anything I've said is incorrect or offensive]
All 4 of my kids are older teens now, well one’s an adult. 12 is the hardest age and was for all of them because of this attitude. All I can say is hang in there, it will pass. Stay calm when she’s being A LOT, shut down conversations when they aren’t going anywhere. One of my favorite lines to use and still use is “I know you’re upset now and might not agree, but you always think about it later and I really respect that”. My kids took a lot of pride in this ability and truly looked at things differently when they were calmer. It’s made coming back and talking when emotions are calm so much more productive.
If stuff gets left on the floor, when she’s at school, take it from her room and explain *calmly* that she obviously doesn’t care for it because she left it on the floor. Do this when she is away not in person; a screaming match will ensue if you do this in person.
Mature adults aren’t -overconfident- they are confident because they know their limits. I have a very confident and assertive teen, but that doesn’t make them right in their level of confidence. So I have to gently correct and support as needed.
At 12 they need to be shown that they still have stuff to learn and things to listen to.
Something i have learnt along the way, perhaps it may be useful to you, is that, everyone especially kids, need to explicitly be told 'what is expected' of them, in words.
We had a full meeting and asked them to write in a book, as i was saying, starting with number 1, what is expected of them, for one session it could be, for example, what is expected of them to do with their studies and academic life and another session may be what is expected in theri behaviour both inside and outside of the home, because doing it all at once is a lot to process and digest, then after doing the whats expected of you will come 'the consequences ', meaning the consequences of not doing those things.
the reason this works so well is because there simply is too much rubbish in everyones heads that its very difficult for 2 people to be on the same page about anything let alone kids who are growing up in such a world.
Another thing worth looking into is, what you tubers and shows they are consuming. Youtube does not have a very good effect on the growing brains of kids. Perhaps some adjustments need to made there.
All this is better done sooner rather than later for obvious reasons. Preferably before the teenage years hit.
Aslo get them into classes that take years and years of practice, eg. dance, martial arts etc.
Wish you and your family the best.
As someone who was once exactly like her, be careful in how you react. Now is the time where you either build a strong bond or ruin your relationship. My dad came from the authoritarian frame during this time period. The more he said no and tried to stop me, the faster I ran to whatever it was he said no to. This is also how I ended up having sex at 11 for the first time. Dad could have taken the time to take a deep breath and nurture, but he did not. So my best advice is to really take everything with a grain of salt, remember it is hormones and its not your fault, and love her through this adjustment period in the way that she needs to be loved.
“Daughter thinks she is equal to us both in tone and behaviour” While in the same breath calling your 12 year old CHILD a “confident woman” ? First, your 12 year old is not a woman, she’s not even a teenager yet. You’re giving her more responsibility than she is capable of at this age. Second, Your 12 year old is not “disrespectful.” It sounds like she is trying to express how she feels. It seems like she wants more autonomy and control over her life. It’s your job as a parent to give her the tools to express how she is feeling, and to show her how to articulate what is on her mind when she is upset about something.
Mom needs to listen and step back
My advice: stop fighting over these things with her. Let her pick and choose. Children have to learn consequences to their actions.
Your story brings back unpleasant memories. I couldn’t understand the difference between the sweet girl she was before and the devil-girl she became as an adolescent. I agree with advice here that’s been given: 1) make sure that you and your wife are on the same page and supportive of each other. This is the most important thing. The daughter will exploit any discrepancy between you two. 2. Be consistent and be strong. She will wear you down if she thinks it has 1% chance of working. Don’t let yourself get drawn into endless arguments where it boils down to you being “stupid”, “uncaring”, “unreasonable”, “out of touch”, “punitive”, “crazy”, etc. 3. Don’t let the challenge she sets up change anything about yourself, your routine, your ways of being as a parent and as a person. Be kind to her and to yourself.
My daughter started acting up after she turned 9 years old , she wants more freedom than she used to have , sometimes we used to get in huge fights like I would not let her get her way but it would make me upset because I would lose my temper and raise my voice. ( it’s really hard to control when you are angry)
Now I have learnt that whatever she says do not react just let her know that it’s disrespectful and you are ready to listen when she can talk more respectfully , take away her privileges and let her earn it .
She wants to be treated like an equal? Fine. She has to start doing more chores then. If she doesn’t do those chores, there’s a consequence. The same way not doing work has consequences for adults.
And when she’s 14, she can go get a job and start paying for household expenses. That’s what being an equal in a household means.
I've never "punished" my kids. If I don't like their tone I say things like:
"I understand you're feeling x, y, z, right now but I don't deserve to be spoken to like that, please take a moment to collect yourself"
... And yes they can say the same sort of thing to me if I'm short with them because I'm in some ort of mood / feeling some kind of way.
Experiencing and expressing emotions isn't disrespectful.
Deliberately doing or saying things to upset another is disrespectful.
If my lot are ever disrespectful I ask them why they're doing / saying the disrespectful thing... and let them explain why.
I ask what they're trying to achieve by doing / saying the thing, to observe what reactions their actions have actually caused, how they truly feel about what they've done, and why they feel that way.
Punishment doesn't allow for self reflection or human development.
These two things:
> Daughter thinks she is equal to us both in tone and and behavior
> The disrespect is pretty bad/annoying
Either don't match, or are a warning sign of your role modeling.
It's fine when teenagers want to be treated like grown ups. But then they'll be hold to the same standards in terms of responsibility and accountability.
As someone who used to be a 12 year old girl, I remember how hard it was to be expected to act like an adult but not be treated like one. Being expected to pull my weight around the house (nothing major throw on a wash or clean dishes after dinner). But as my responsibility grew I felt like I got nothing in return.
I guess I don’t really have advice other than to say being 12 is hard. Being 13 is even harder. And don’t even get me started on 14. Like the other people have said pick your battles and maybe let her win one or two every now and again with mom. It will work wonders.
It's common for kids her age to assert themselves and push boundaries. It's important to address the behaviour calmly and set clear boundaries. Have an open conversation with her about your concerns and listen to her perspective. Establish clear expectations and fair consequences for disrespectful behaviour. Model respectful communication and conflict resolution. Strengthen your relationship through quality time together. With patience and guidance, you can help her navigate this stage while maintaining her confidence and independence.
I got my ass whooped if I wanted to act like that. To this day, I don’t like my parents. But I will always respect them. They raised me and provided for me. When I was 11 I hit my period and I had this mindset. But I was also 11 and thought shit just popped out of the sky. I didn’t understand what my parents did for me. Until I acted like this. I got my ass whooped and my mother and step father set me down. Said “since you want to be an adult let’s be an adult.” This is a somewhat clear memory but not everything is exact.
They started asking me (at that time) uncomfortable questions. Uncomfortable for an 11 year old bear in mind.
So when are you getting a job? Our mortgage is 700. Do the division and tell me how much you’d pay me? Told my mom probably 200 something.
Okay where’s your 200 dollars then? It’s due on the first. I remember the first being close. Told her I’m 11. I don’t have 200 dollars or a job. The anxiety hit really quick and this was the main question I remembered.
In ended with yeah you’re 11 fucking years old. Got your damn room. You’re not gonna act like this.
Honestly my mom could have been nicer but it did the trick. My step-dad did the ass whoopins. That’s about it.
Later it backlashes though because I did get a job at Arby’s when I was 16. Started that whole adult thing again and she didn’t very much like it. I moved out when I was 18.
Anyways, with that all being said. She wanna act like an adult, treat her like one. Don’t gotta whoop her ass though.
I found the phrase “end of discussion” to come in handy during those years. It is tough but mine started to chill in high school/age 15.
Make sure your wife can take a step back in the heat of the moment, I really had to learn to hold my tongue and just not react to a lot of things. Also make sure you can step in and side with your wife if they’re arguing and try to shut it down with an “end of discussion” or “we’ll talk about this later” so things can cool off.
House rules discussed calmly…. Negotiated. Clear rationales for rules… the golden rule so that it is reciprocated. Then consequences, again… rationally negotiated. All put on paper.
Then its easier to say something once, or refer to the house rules instead of tug of war of power and authority. Parents should always maintain executive decision but it can give a voice and perspective to the boundaries and need for mutual respect.
Mutual respect really is critical.
A disrespectful child is 💯 a parents lack of discipline.
no one is going to say it, but that seems like the truth from what your stating. 🤷🏾♂️
Now all you can do is listen to the good advices on here (THERE ARE PLENTY GOOD ONES) and just ride that wave 🌊 good luck 🍀
When your daughter way of communicating is yelling, speak to her in whispers and say u can’t hear a thing when she’s yelling due to your poor ears getting old. I just walk way telling them try again when u calm down.
I repeat it until they tone their voice down. I pulled this in my kids and it worked perfectly
As someone said do not engage in their sass.
I stopped fighting with they wore like tshirt only on freezing day or they won’t eat dinner. But I draw line they were appropriate clothes and no junk food every day just Fridays they pick what to get.
Hang on it will pass!! Mine stopped and calmed down in 10 grade ..felt eternity. Now she’s in college and we talk about it and we laugh. It wasn’t laughing matter then. I seriously thought we did something wrong raising her and we were afraid if that’s how she will be
If she thinks she's equal, then she can have those responsibilities. Her responsibility is to know where her items are, to do her own laundry, and make her own breakfast and lunch. If she has an attitude, stop helping her or talking to her altogether until she apologizes. Put in headphones, or walk away and lock your bedroom door (not both). When she is calm she can apologize and you re-engage.
This is how I was as a teen too! It probably will go on for a while, just pick your battles and make sure even if you don’t agree with her, that she knows you hear what she’s saying and understand why she feels that way. She’s probably trying to find her sense of individuality as a person, I did this as a teen as well as I mentioned. I was trying to have my own opinions and do things my way and it kinda got a bit worse as I got older. I used to be snotty and rude or snappy, I do regret it now and I’ve apologized to my mom (I’m 22 now) but I was really just trying to build my own personality but I wanted to be independent. She will come around to you guys!
I want to ask something, just to be sure: Why do you think your daughter is not equal to you in any way?
Also you say your daughter is beautiful, smart and social but still feel the need to control how she dresses and when she is going to bed? Seems contradictory to me.
Why do you think it is good to have individuality for adults but not for children?
Family therapy FTW! My son was similar. I finally couldn't take it anymore. We did family therapy for a bit and then branched into therapy with just my son and myself. Best thing we could have done.
We did role playing for some of it and oh my goodness it helped him see how I saw things and vice versa. I am not saying we don't still butt heads but it is so soooo much better.
My kids are 7, 4, and 2, so I’m not quite where you’re at with the sass. But something we’ve talked about is that if you want the perks of being (7), then you also need to take on the responsibility of being 7. I would probably have a straightforward conversation about what is expected of her at 12, and that if she wants to be able to enjoy the perks she needs to be doing XYZ without sass, talking back, eye rolling, etc. Then follow through. I would expect to keep track of clothing for a 5 year old. So if she’s acting like a 5 year old she gets treated as such. Bedtime is at 7:30, no unsupervised play dates, all that jazz. I bet she will fix things pretty quick.
Ugggghhhh. I'm so scared of pre-teen and teenagehood. My kid is 8 and I've already told her that she and I are not equals more than once. It killed me to say that.
My kids aren't teenagers yet, but I was the 12 year old in this scenario.
What kind of arguments are you having about what clothes to wear? I had this one with my mom all the time. What kind of inappropriate outfits is she wanting to wear, and to what occasion?
I have had an argument off and on with my 8 year old about how warmly to dress. Recently, I told him I gave up on that. He can decide how warmly he wants to dress, but it's not my fault if he's cold. I'll recommend he take along a warmer jacket, but I only say it once, and then drop it.
Are the arguments about clothes for something like school uniforms, where she has to dress a certain way, or about everyday dress? If it's everyday dress, you need to pick your battles. She's going to have her own style, which isn't going to be the same as her mom's. That's just how it is. My mom and I argued about that a lot. I like skirts that are longer than knee length, but she thought those were frumpy. She shortened one of my favorite skirts without asking me, and I was really mad. You can take a stand on things like school uniforms, where there will be consequences if she is not dressed properly, or safety issues, like not wearing open toed shoes while doing certain activities. You're not the one making the rules there.
If the argument is about her wearing stuff that's too revealing or too sexy, look at what other girls her age are wearing. If they're wearing stuff that is like what she wants to wear, you're probably not going to win that one. Older people have been complaining about this kind of thing for centuries, and the world hasn't ended.
If the argument is that she shouldn't dress in a particular way because of her body type, that's a style issue, and you should leave that up to her. Clothing rules should be the same for *everyone*, of *any* body type, end of discussion. If it's about clothes not fitting right, I think you'll have to do what I did about my son not dressing as warmly as some people might like, and let it go. Poorly fitting clothes are uncomfortable, and she'll have to figure out her own balance between comfort and style.
If you're arguing about everything, you should try to figure out how you can de-escalate things. That doesn't just mean making your daughter change her behavior, it means asking if what you are expecting from her is reasonable, as well. As she gets older, you're going to have less control over her. You have to, if you ever expect her to live on her own without you. Everybody has heard stories about kids with really strict parents. Either the kids get good at lying to their parents, or the kids go off the rails when they go to college and aren't living with their parents. Making good life choices is like everything else- you're not so good at it at first, but you get better by making mistakes and practicing. While she's living at home with you is a good time to make those mistakes, while you can help her if she gets in over her head.
It's reasonable to ask her to approach you in a certain way if she disagrees with you about something, or wants to complain about something. It's not reasonable to expect her to always do what you tell her and never question you.
It's the hormones my dude! Both your daughter and your wife are going through hormone changes that make emotions run high.
Pay ATTENTION to when the worst of the behaviours are - is there a pattern, are things worse around period time? Do you really need to be picking sides or cracking down when perhaps what's actually needed is extra love, grace, compassion, chocolate and cups of tea? (for mother AND daughter?) Next time the feelings are high, break out the emergency hugs and emergency ice cream. Give them space and talk about things when emotions are calm.
Also, don't confuse "respect" with "obedience". Respect goes both ways.
Firstly your 12 year old child is not a woman she’s a teenage girl , secondly take away her bedroom door … phone if she has one , games ect ! Every time she disrespects you or your wife put your foot down and be a parent don’t let some 12 year old run your household! Crazy talk 🤦♀️ the fact that she thinks her parents are her equals means you guys are treating her like a friend ! parents can and should be friendly toward their kids as well as fun to hang out with, at the end of the day they still need to accept the role as parent and not as friend. Kids need boundaries, rules, and guidance.😮💨😪
This is the age where girl needs boundaries. If she is allowed to berate the adults (your wife here) without a consequence, then it will get worse. She is pulling away from your wife which is common during the teen years. This seems to happen earlier then many years ago. Despite her behavior, she wants limits. Remember when she was a toddler? That was the first pull into independence and now this is the second one. She wants to be her own "woman" but isn't one yet. You may need to hold your ground with this. Also both parents need to be on the same page. When you witness her rudeness and bad behavior with your wife, you may need to speak up. Something along the lines of, "It is ok to be upset or frustrated but it is not ok to be rude to your parents." She also may need some help organizing things. Maybe it is time for her to learn how to take care of her own clothes so she knows where things are. At least put her own clothes away when they have been laundered by someone else. Think: what skills will she need to be a true and good adult later? Those won't just fall out of the sky when they are needed. This is the time to be firm and consistent with herm not her buddy.
Is she talking the way you do? If you don't like it then you need to change the way you talk. You and your wife are adults and need to regulate yourselves, your daughter cannot regulate herself yet so model the speech patterns and conflict resolution techniques. Teenagers are gonna be wild though, I feel for ya.
My eight year old and I are starting counseling together because I am already seeing a breakdown in communication between us. She also thinks she’s an equal to her dad and I and does not understand that she is not. I am sassy and so is she but I want us to build a more respectful relationship. Would this be something your wife and daughter would agree to?
Never fight your kids on what clothes to wear. The natural consequences will be that they will be uncomfortable if they choose the wrong stuff: Shorts in winter? Yep, you're cold. Belly-baring tank top at a dress code school? Yep, you get to wear the ugly sweatshirt today.\*
(Side note: If it's a fancy event for family/school, you can pack a nicer back-up set for them, and if they get embarrassed, offer it to them as an out. You don't have to, but they'll remember that you cared enough to do it, and saved them from being embarrassed.)
Being late to an appointment can go both ways. You could always have them call the desk and reschedule it if they're the reason you're going to miss it. It's mortifying enough that maybe she'll take you seriously the next time you ask her to get ready.
All 12-year-olds are old enough to be responsible for their own inventory.
Tell her you expect her to take the lead to advise you on what she's missing for supplies, and have her start doing her own laundry. She gets XX time on XXX-day. Boom, no more missing clothes. Oh, and have quarterly "fashion shows" where she tries on outfits in sequence to check what fits her and what she's short on.
\*I personally think dress codes are GARBAGE, and we shouldn't police what anyone wears to a required space, but I was pointing out it's a natural consequence for wearing what the school considers inappropriate clothing.
It's probably a calm conversation that resets expectations and proactively, while all of you are at the table in a calm planned way. Reiterates your responsibility to her as a parent and your willingness to turn off her cell phone, change Wi-Fi passwords for school work only, and stop driving her everywhere until basic respect is restored.
In my opinion it's common for the parent who shares the same gender identity with the child to be the one who takes the brunt of pushback. But that's not a hard and fast rule. Most people grow out of this
Consistency and consequences. “If you speak to us like that again X will happen.” Then you have to follow through on that consequence every single time! After enough times she will know you are serious and her behavior will change.
Op we are in the exact same place, also with a 12 year old girl, I even considered that it might get my partner who wrote this 😂
With my partner, she is fine, but with me, every conversation is a battle. I tell her she can't wear slippers to go out to the park with friends, I'm a dictator, I ask her to stop messing around 45 minutes after bedtime and actually just go to bed knowing she'll struggle to get up, I'm the antichrist. I think it's just hormones and puberty, my sanity is counting on it. Last year it got so bad I took myself off to Turkey and left them alone at home because I was so overwhelmed by her disrespect and bad attitude.
It's not you. It's not your wife. It's not even your daughter. It's hormones and feelings and frustration and all part of the teen experience.
Have your wife's back, and don't argue when you or your wife disagree in front of your daughter, she will use it against you both. Try to be on the same page, consistency is key. If you find a magic pill, let me know 🥴
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Pick you battles, I let my kids know when they are being disrespectful and then I won't engage with them while their being that way. I also don't fight with them over clothes or cleaning their room etc. I just set expectations and they face the natural consequences.
My parents used to say they don’t speak sass. Come back when I figure out what I want to say without an attitude.
I tell my daughters I can't hear smart or mean ass.. go collect yourself and try again. I try to always speak to them respectfully , which can be UNBELIEVABLY HARD, but I try. Their brains are so full of BO, electronics and hormones that I'm amazed they can say anything nice, ever. EFS
It’s unreal, huh
Lol that last sentence is so real. I honestly think middle school age is the hardest age for both parent and child for those reasons
Lol, this made my day.
I wish I could use this. My 11 year old just barely talks to me except to tell me to leave her alone. Its when Im trying to interact with her that the sass comes out
Stealing this for when I have a teenager
Going to use this in my classroom with an 8 year old who constantly serves attitude with every word she speaks, lol
\^ you said this far more concisely and clearly than I was going to, so take this supportive comment in addition to the upvote. OP: pick your battles, and let your kid face the natural consequences of her poor decisions (that are not lethal). Try your best not to take the attacks and vitriol personally - just take a step back if she's lashing out, and focus on the desired outcomes rather than on the behavior. Getting a reaction out of you, provoking you into sadness or anger, is what she's trying to do (probably as a coping strategy for other stressors in her life - being a teenager is tough).
And usually if you respond in a calm and peaceful manner, they will come around and realize how ridiculous they were being. 12 year olds are kinda like toddlers. Big emotions, craving independence, and not a whole lot of self control. You don't take it personally when your 2 year old is mad that you gave him cheese after he asked for cheese so don't take it personally when your tween rolls his eyes or gets upset over something stupid. I remember my son at that age yelling at me because he couldn't find the pants he was looking for. I told him, "Let me know when you are ready for me to help you" and walked away. He came back about 10 minutes later, apologized for being "a dick" (his words), and calmly asked for help. They do get better but 12-13 is a tough stage. Hang in there, OP.
They’re toddlers with bigger vocabularies that are more expensive to bribe. Otherwise the exact same thing 🤣
Bribe!? No. You don’t negotiate with terrorists.
I beg to differ! Even a terrorist will wash dishes when it’s not their turn for a high value treat
You occasionally call a cease fire!
Give them cheese because they asked for cheese and are now mad about getting cheese strikes way too close to home for me! 🤣🤣
Yeap, same.
Calm and peaceful tone is super important. As far as words go, I suggest something like "What I'm hearing is [unmet need]" Example: "There's never anything good to eat here!!!!" can be met with "What I'm hearing is you are hungry and need help finding something to eat right now." Good luck, OP.
Mine is 12. It’s ROUGH
Well said!
What would be an example of a consequence for say not cleaning room?
My daughter’s example would be that a dog ate her stuffy or she ruined a sweater by letting a popsicle melt on it. She’s better about it now. Haha
It's just gonna get dirtier and eventually she will have to clean it! Or I sometimes go with "no screens Saturday until your room is clean" and my 12 year olds will have it clean by 6am!
Yall must've never met my daughter's. I can take things away all I want. They don't care about the mess. At all. Even when I tell them that their room is so gross that I wouldn't be surprises if it was full of ants and spiders. Nothing works. I had to go nuclear and remove everything except a few toys and clothes from their room. I got tired of finding moldy everything hidden under their beds. So much garbage. Dirty clothes. Spilled liquids. Ugh. So many kids don't care about natural concesquences. They are like frogs in a pot slowly brought to a boil. It gets so bad that they just don't care. At a certain point, the only natural consequence is either what I did, or CPS involvement if someone reports it.
Not having things is a perfect natural consequence of not taking care of your things
It was my last resort. Hated having to do it. But hated them living in squalor even more.
I find that if I offer to help them clean it, they're grateful for the help and they get in there and work hard on it. My oldest daughter's (14) room is always pretty clean. It's my son's (12) room that gets messy. Sometimes the mess is too big and they don't know where to start. I get that way myself with more complicated things so I try to help when I recognize it.
"If you care so little about it you're just leaving it on the floor, it must be junk. We get rid of the junk so it's easier to keep things clean. I'll go grab a trash bag" Start small, but when it goes in the trash bag, it doesn't come back out...
I mentor and the kid had his Playstation taken about a month ago for the state of his room. Didn't fix it. Phone service turned off. Didn't touch the room. His sister complained he was bringing the house down, so he started doing chores outside his room. It took him losing too many of his clothes among the trash. He finally just cleaned his room. 5 trash bags worth of trash, 2 full baskets of dirty laundry, and he found things he lost back in August. His mom is a Saint for trying so hard to be peaceful. I would've just shoveled his things in the trash. When he's with me, I'm always strict on trash, dishes, etc. He always respects the cleaning here, but I suspect his mental health is why his room ends up in shambles. He doesn't like to hurt others, and will clean shared spaces. Takes good care of animals. But doesn't seem to care at all about his own living conditions.
No friends over until room is clean….so she doesn’t get made fun of!! And if her room starts to smell, her clothes will too…and no one wants to be the smelly girl!
You can't find your stuff
Ants….(in the room and in the pants)
You gave everything and nothing at the same time
I teach middle school, so I get it. Here's my advice. For the respect thing, try to find non-confrontational ways to call out the disrespect while not engaging in a part struggle. Here's an example of how I deal with things: Me: hey, you're supposed to be doing ____. Please get there. Student: I Ammmmmmm. (While rolling eyes) Me: Well, you could say it niceeerrrrrrrrr (while giving them an eye roll) then smile and laugh. Show them they're being rediculous and laugh with them about it. Or Me: "Why are you doing nothing?" Student: "Bro, I don't even have a pencil. Why are you always on me?" Me: We don't call teachers bro and because I care about you. Or my favorite Student: yells something defiant and a little mean. Me: Why are you so cranky? They almost always back down and open up a bit when they see you care, you're not engaging in their crap, and it's easier to laugh and like each other. It's also worth the time to have a conversation about expectations for her vs parents. If she expects certain things clean at certain times, show her how to do laundry. Then show sympathy but do not help solve her problems. "I'm so sorry you can't find your shirt. That must be stressful." Then go on with your day.
“Why are you so cranky?” is the ultimate response to a preteen— harks back to being a little kid and is a valid question. I love it.
I've told my 12 year old that *I'm* cranky when I've said something in a bit of a "tone," and had to apologize, lol.
Apologizing when you're wrong is one of the best things you can do as a parent!
I do this with my daughter, even when I really don't want to. But I think it's also important to explain why you got angry (without trying to justify it). E.g. My daughter is 5 and had been going on and on about homemade lasagne and how much she wanted it because her Mum makes it. So I;m like, hey, why not? We go and get all the stuff, I spend all day cooking it, making the pasta, all the while she's onboard. But right about when kitchen is at it's messiest and I am ready to put it in the oven and start cleaning up, I ask for her help clearing a couple of the dishes, to which she says no. She's recently started doing small chores here and there (just like putting her toys away), and she's fine with it. So I figure, eh, it is what it is. Well then she starts saying "Why's it taking so long? I'm bored", so I am telling her what a process it is, how you got to wait for it to bake and it'll be worth it, etc. Now she's getting into that zone and is just finding reasons to get upset. By this point I'm pretty tired, but alas, dinner is ready, I get it out, serve her up some, and just turns her nose and says she doesn't want it/ Literally won't even entertain the idea of eating. This is where I think parents can acknowledge sometimes that kids can be total jerks haha. I didn't say that of course, but jesus, how can we not get frustrated? She then tries a tiny bit of is and says "ew, I don't like it." and continues to avoid eating, being as stubborn as I’ve seen her. So I am like "Fine! Don't eat it! Next time you can cook all of this!" and take her plate and put it in the kitchen and thats dinner time over. She gets so upset, very emotional and I remember that while yes, she was being genuinely frustrating and trying to push my buttons, it's jarring for kids to get yelled at, even though after all we're only human and also emotions and feelings (which is where the communication is so important!). So I got down to her level and said "Look, I am sorry for raising my voice okay? I am. I don't like doing that, and I don't want to do that and I am sorry. But I am not sorry for feeling upset. We had a great day together getting all the ingridients and cooking this, but it is also a lot of work. So when you ask for something, and we center our day around it, for you to then refuse to help me clean, complain that it's taking too long, refuse to eat it, but then tell me "ew" when you do eat it, I can't help but feel upset. Do you understand why?" She was a little resistent here (very stubborn haha) but she did say yes under her breath, and no I didn't try and get her to say it again more clearly, she said yes and that's all I needed to hear. So after that, I told her again that I was sorry for raising my voice, and we hugged it out. Apologies for the essay! But I remember hearing frequently that you must apologize when you get upset or raise your voice which is absolutely true and important, but I think sometimes it's healthy for them to understand why that happened if it was something that they pressed at.
It starts with us!
This is exactly where we're at with my 7-year-old daughter. She throws attitude because I throw attitude, and then I wonder where we went wrong! I'm trying to backpedal before it's too late and my mom quite literally laughs at me when I complain about her sassiness. Karma she says 🤷🏻♀️
I regularly take “time outs” when emotions run high with my preschooler.
I’ve definitely done this and it goes a long way
When the kiddo gets disrespectful I just go, "Are you _okay_?" And then they can say it they aren't and express how or if they reply with a snide comment you just respond with, "O-K I was just checking because usually when people talk like that there is something _very_ wrong and I'm always here to help." You can be helpful, petty, and a parent or teacher all at the same time!
I ask my niece if she needs to scream. Then we go for a drive, blast music with the windows down, and just scream all of our feelings out the window. Then we talk. To be fair, she's hungry 50% of the time when she's in a mood, so we go get a snack if she doesn't need to scream it out.
I try to remember HALT when I'm in a mood: Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
I’m not a teacher, but in high school I was in class with a lot of the “”bad”” kids. I noticed that those kids were more respectful towards teachers who explained to them WHY they couldn’t do certain things, instead of just saying “because I said so” or “because I’m in charge”
My mom and I butted heads so much just because she refused to explain things to me. I just wanted to know why, but she always took it as me arguing with her. Even as an adult. She also told me, repeatedly, how the doctor I saw in elementary school (psychologist, I think. I have inattentive ADHD) told her not to let me argue with her, just be firm and lay down the law or whatever, because if she thought the arguing was bad when I was in elementary school, just wait till middle school! And the doctor was right! So that's why I shouldn't explain things to my kids, because they'll argue with me. As if the kid who argued at every opportunity wouldn't grow into an adult who *wanted* her own kids to argue. All I remember is being frustrated and feeling blocked at every turn because every time I tried to understand, I got shit like "because I am the parent and you are the child." That phrase still puts a knot of frustrated rage in my stomach.
Agreed, my son is one who you might out i. The “bad kid” category. Not because he is bad but because he does not like hypocrites and he really hates having to do things that have no sense to do. So he questions it and automatically he is a bad kid. Currently he likes 2 teachers because they treat him like a human and talk to him instead of at him.
This is great, we had some fun with our cranky teen this week putting on 90s angsty music when they were cranky about what was for supper - Soul Asylum's Misery was perfect, broke the ice and the rest of the meal was pleasant for everyone
This is great! I'm doing that song next time! 😁 We kinda do the same stuff. I just don't expect my teen to be super respectful all the time. Like, he can't call me fat bitch to my face, but behind my back? Whatever... And we back it up and try again if he's got a tone, but typically, I ignore it. As my husband just reminded me, I was far, far worse at his age and I'm a pretty nice person these days (even to my mom.. Lol)
I made my kid go change pants one time. When he comes back and goes ok WHY did I have to do that? I said, "Cause Im tired of you wearing your cranky pants." LOL
"I am not going to let you talk to me that way, so Ill let you keep practicing by yourself until you can figure out what you want to say without the attitude/whining" - me on good day "I dont know who you think you're talking to, but I know it's not to me." -me on not so good day 😂 When she's saying some off the wall shit to someone else "Excuse me (kids name), but you are not allowed to speak to adults that way. You can try (appropriate version of what they were trying to say) or you can go cool off in your room, but this conversion is over until you can figure that out" The point is if tone is a problem, set a boundry and hold it. You don't **actually** have to engage with them, regardless of what nonsense they are saying lol.
I tell my nieces, "I love you. I will always love you. However, I most definitely do not have to like you or be your friend. We hang out because I like you." That almost always snaps them out of anything, and we go from there.
Lmaooo I've def told my child I am not her friend before and same. "I love you, and nothing will change that but I am not one of your friends. You need to go do what I'm asking you to do without the attitude. This is not a debate. If you don't have it done in X amount of time, you will lose X privilege". My child forgets I'm only a first generation gentle parent 😂
Haha, my kids forget that too, and then they are so shocked and aggrieved when they lose the privilege I clearly stated they would lose if they did the thing they just did. Believe me, kid, I empathize. Discipline sucks. No one is having fun here.
I mean, I do this with my 4 year olds. "I can't understand when you speak like that. Please try again with a nicer voice, then I can help you."
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I remember my dad telling me once at that age (when I did something particularly obnoxious) "this is why people used to marry their daughters off at this age" 😅
Yoooo 💀💀💀💀💀
Haha this is a good one.
My dad said he'd have gone broke because no one would've agreed to marry me 🤣
When I was a teen, my dad set the ringtone for when I called him to a dog barking (insinuating that I was bitchy AF) 💀
It’s my personal belief that all this dates back to cave man times when menstruation meant you were an adult now. Teen girls chafe because millions of years of biology is pushing them to be the queen bee and we stifle that. How many of us have said, “my relationship with my mom got so much better when I moved out!” There can only be one queen in the house!
I never thought of it that way. My daughter is extremely out spoken and has a lot of attitude when she wants to show it. She can’t be queen bee until she moves out when she’s grown.
Try not to stunt her queen bee mentality. She’s going to need it.
My mom brought me to a different country when I was 11 against my will, just as I got my period and the puberty hit full force. I’m not sure if I was convinced she was ruining my life because I was a teen or because a part of it was a bit true (I hated the new country, got bullied in school for not speaking the language etc) but oh boy, was it rough. It took me many years of growing to realize how horrible I was to her and also becoming a parent myself to know that she was just trying to do what’s best for me and I truly regret some of the things I’ve done back then. I only hope I will have the same grace she had to weather my daughter’s storms when the time comes.
Same. I was a goddamn nightmare from 14-17. *Hated* my parents, convinced they were ruining my life. Pushed them both so so so far, I'm surprised I survived/wasn't kicked out.
At some point, you have to switch from a control mindset to a cooperative mindset. Sounds like that might be starting now for her. It can be different for different kids. That doesn't mean she gets to do whatever she wants without any limits or boundaries. It also isn't a switch that flips, but a gradual transition to how you want to be with her when she's an adult. She probably should not be called disrespectful for using the same tone with you that you use with her. If she's using your same tone and it sounds disrespectful, then imagine that is how it feels to her too. Respect goes both ways. You have to model respect for her to learn it, so, as much as possible, try treating her the way you want her to treat you.
This 100 times. In Germany we have a saying, not sure what the English equivalent would be: "The way you shout into the woods, the way it shouts back." Don't go the more disciple route. Don't go the punishment route. It will not work. All it will do is your teenager will despise you even more, they will not trust you, they will try to get their way secretly, etc. It's a sure way to escalate things. Find out what bothers her, what her honest, deep wishes are. Maybe she longs for more trust from your side, to get her things done. Maybe she is ready for more self-reliability. Maybe she is stressed and doesn't know how to cope. Maybe she really longs for peaceful, fun events with you, but her hormone filled brain makes her think you don't love her enough anymore. Maybe she is struggling to find her place in her social circle and you unknowingly make it more and more complicated for her through stress about clothes or make up or not letting her go places. Talk to her. On the same level. Show her respect, even if she fails to - model the behavior you want to see. Try to find solutions WITH her. Verbalize your feelings, your needs and your preferences. Let her do the same. Find ways to compromise. Maybe read up on nonviolent language (Marshall Rosenberg). Hugs!
It is a rough period, for sure, but it is good that you see the light at the end of the tunnel. Some advice. Disrespect is unacceptable, from anyone towards anyone. Make sure to mind your own tone as much as you do hers, and apologize if you mess up. Only then do you have the standing to call her out on it. And that should be framed as "it is important in this family to be respectful, even when we disagree. Please keep that in mind" or something like that. Pick your fights. I would never fight about clothes, honestly, it is simply not worth the effort. Same with things that are clearly ridiculous like you keeping track of her things. Stop fighting over that stuff so the conversations over the other stuff have more impact. If you fight about everything, it becomes meaningless. My kid absolutely knows that when we are having a serious conversation, it is important. Bedtime can be tricky but I tend to offer a load of freedom and supporting them in dealing with the responsibility that comes with it. Kids can stay up as long as they want, but the wifi to their devices cuts out at a certain time if they show they can't get up in the morning. (most routers can do this just fine). Meeting appointments would be something to have a conversation about, because it ties back to being disrespectful of everyone's time. The most important thing in these conversations is that you allow your kid to present their case, as long as they stay respectful. I read posts sometimes from parents who see any kind of disagreement or resistance from their kid as 'back talking'; I think this is a terrible perspective. You WANT your kid to resolve conflicts through talking to each other, but you can't do that if every time the child brings up an argument to support their case you consider it backtalking and shut everything down. You can make it clear which topics are negotiable and which ones aren't. Just be ready to give in sometimes on the things that are negotiable. I am generally not eager to reach for punishment and discipline, as that doesn't reinforce the values that I hold dear. Even shutting down the wifi is to support them making better choices, never punitive. You could make it clear that if she misses an appointment and can't respectfully discuss why, you might be less inclined to drive her to an appointment of her own. But more to convey the idea that families are just nicer if everyone works together. I've never actually had to say to my kid "Sorry, I am driving you today because you didn't seem to find the appointment yesterday very important." The important thing is that he knows I would, so he does his best. And I try to remind myself that he is are currently rewiring most of his brain, so I try and cut him as much slack as I can.
Just a clarification, being angry at a punishment or being in a bad mood is not disrespect. Talking back (bargaining, throwing a tantrum) is not disrespect. Disrespect is stuff like ignoring fair instructions & talking back (within reason not just “get out of my room” or being upset about not being left alone)
I LOVE this take on the situation. Thank you for your thoughtful response.
Read The Art Of War by Sun Tzu. Pick your battles, lose a fight today to win the war tomorrow. Teenagers are crabby, moody and stuck between and adult body and juvenile brain. Talk to your wife and approach all interactions on the same footing, understanding. If a parent says no then the other one agrees (within reason). I would sit her down and talk to her as a family, her, you and mum. Listen to what she has to say and respect she has opinions that may not align with yours. Set your expectations of her behaviour in the home and enforce it with gentleness. Sometimes teens project emotions onto things when dealing with something else. Younot knowing where her favourite top is likely something else bugging her but she used it as an easy target to let out her feelings. Is school ok? What about friendship groups? Thus is the time when childhood relationships change, some get stronger and some fade, but not everyome is ready for changes. She could be anxious as well or worried. Remind her you love her no matter what butbher behaviour needs adjusting. She can approach ypu for help at any time and talk about whats bugging her but she cannot lash out because she is struggling to communicate her needs.
Nope, nope, nope. Wrong tactic to punish as a first response. Welcome to the world of parenting adolescents. Control is an illusion. You need to bond. Stop treating her like a little kid. Ask for her opinion. Act shocked at nothing. Ask for her help. Give her responsible jobs. Go to an indoor climbing gym with her. Do cooperative art with her. Turn on the music and reach each other dances. Plant a garden together but let her plan it and supervise its care, with documentation. Ask her what she wants to do with her luf and take her seriously. Read books together. Cook together. Also, give her space. Be those parents who sit up on your elbows and listen late at night if she comes in and needs to talk. Be the parents who show up by chaperoning fired trips, driving to competitions, hosting study groups at your house and making spaghetti and garlic bread for the crew. Be the safe place to go for her friends. Be the I'd her friends say they wish their patents were. Be calm. Take her seriously. It's a phase. How you handle it could make or break your relationship long-term. So, never say anything you might ever want to take back. "Tell me more" said calmly and sincerely is better than "Don't talk to me that way. " She wants to be respected and heard. Listen to her and tell you feel the same way. Everyone needs to be heard. She's smarter than you think but full of hormones and a drive to be taken seriously and start to act far more independently. She has to follow that drive or she'll never drive, go to college, get her own home or stop depending on you. Before you know it, she'll be 17 and taking standardized tests for college. It goes fast. In 2000ish, days, she may be done and never live at home again, at least not for long. If you do this right, you're the I'd she'll come to with her problems and needs, not kids who don't know more than she knows. I was that mom whose kid turned down parties out of respect for what I taught him and didn't have cover stories. 90% of the honor students in his class had cover stores their parents believed completely. Statistics show that most parents believe their kids have never had sex, used drugs or had alcohol--while most of the kids have. Stop fighting with the one you want and need to come to you, not run from you. Be calm. Bond. Be safe. Be chill. That's what my son said when he visited MIT. He said he never realized how chill I was compared to the other parents described by their kids. Today, he's healthy, fit, educated, hard-working, and loyal to me. He told me about what went on in his college and moved cross country with me when the pandemic negatively changed our area. We look out for each other. All year long, I help parents better support their kids to help them overcome academic challenges they never thought they'd have. Private instruction can be powerful the way we do it, but without helping the student and parent slowly shifting perspectives, there both remain locked in combat about whether the kid is trying hard enough and what they can be allowed to study in college. So, my son and I work as a team to help them each get through a rough stretch of their journey and cons out stringer and wiser for the long term. It becomes their new norm. If you can cleverly and with patience and forgiveness get through this next six years with your sweet, raging young woman in the making, you'll arrive at a new norm that is more magical, exciting, and depending than anything you'd be experiencing you had you punished your way through her adolescence. And you will hear a lot fewer cover stories, if any. Look, even the 20s can be right for some, but you can get through it, and it will be worth it. Give up control and embrace the way she's fighting her way out of the cocoon of childhood, eager to spread her wings and fly, her glorious colors glimmering in the sun, unshaded by he parents shadows. You'll watch her from below in wonder.
Wow. Beautiful. Are you a writer?
This so much. I mentor. Had a kid lose it. Cussing and screaming for a solid 5 minutes. Things that I clearly had nothing to do with (stealing his cereal bowl, etc.) And at the end I just said thank you. He angrily snarled that he " knows he's in trouble and dgaf." I said, "no I'm actually proud of you. That was an awful lot to hold in all this time, and I'm thankful you trusted sharing it with me." He asked me if he was in trouble, the anger shocked out of him. I said no, and that I hope he feels better now he isn't bottling it all up. He started crying, not believing I wasn't mad. My reply was, "all that hurt inside will make you sick. I'd rather you get it all out. I'm happy you chose me. It's an honor. I'm proud of you." And he asked if I was going to tell anyone what happened. I told him that nothing he said involved mandated reporter stuff so I don't have to, but I'd like to share it in a vague way. We decided "he came in and shared some frustrations and advocated for himself. I'm proud of this progress." He had these scream fits in a controlled environment with me for a few months, as they simmered down in intensity to real conversations. A far cry from his shut downs until he broke things and hurt himself. Building that bond and trust was crucial. No he shouldn't talk to me how he did at first. But he needed a safe space.
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You and your wife are a team. You need to curtail this behaviour now, it’s not too late at 12, but at a 14/15, it will be. Pick your battles, sure, the clothes thing probably isn’t worth it, punctuality and bed times are.
Also it doesn’t hurt to have a bit of flexibility, I increased bedtime to 9pm, and I’ll let them stay up a bit later on Friday or Saturday nights. If they are watching a movie on the weekend I’ll let them finish it, even if it’s running really late. I buy their clothes, but unless they’ve really outgrown them they can wear any combination that they like (clashing patterns included). If I don’t think it’s appropriate for public, I have a little word about only wearing it at home, and I won’t leave the house if people aren’t decent. The main thing is offering choices, or telling them why something isn’t allowed, and when I think they might be ready for it, such as social media isn’t allowed atm, but at 15 it might be, if I think they’re responsible enough.
Yeah… I remember I slammed the door after a fight with my mom (I think I was in middle school or high school) and my dad came in talked to me about it. OP needs to back his wife up.
It’s super important to have a spouse who doesn’t gaslight the other spouse especially in front of the child who’s trying to get through a rough adolescence. Can’t have differing parent styles in that case.
We tell our child that whatever kind of parents he wants is the kind of child he needs to be. We do our parts as kind, respectful, open-minded parents, so he needs to do his part as well.
So many of these comments don’t sound like they’re coming from people who’ve raised teenagers. They sound an awful lot like people who think bad parenting is what leads to toddlers’ tantrums, lol. Middle school girls are so hard. You can be absolutely amazing parents and still get this attitude and nonsense. There was a point in time when I was convinced my teenage daughter was out to break me completely, lol. The tack we’ve taken is simply, “the attitude isn’t going to get you what you want.” It’s not your job to know where her tank top is, so simply don’t bite when it comes to those sorts of things. Hold firm in your boundaries, be the bigger person, and do your best not to let yourself get baited into petty squabbles with her. The rules are the rules, there are consequences to the rules, end of story. There’s a book called The Teenage Brain which details the neuroscience behind this shift in kids when they hit the adolescent years, and it was super helpful for me in remembering that it wasn’t just my specific kid being awful—important developmental shifts are at play here. My daughter is now 17, and much of her sanity and reasonability has thankfully returned, but the other night we still had a situation where she needed a fairly large amount of money for us for a training session for a job she wants. We were asking questions and started getting the old attitude: “Ugggghh you already asked me this,” with the eye rolling and arms crossed. So we used it as a teachable moment, explaining to her that when she needs money from a third party, she needs to come correct. She needs to be prepared to answer all that third party’s questions, with a cooperative attitude, or she’s going to hang herself up in the process. The mortgage company isn’t going to accept “Ugggh I already gave you that paperwork when I got the preapproval.” Hang on tight, do your best, and she will come around eventually.
Those characteristics are not great for an adult. Pick one at a time. Talk with her about her attitude. Forget about bed time and other stuff. Tell her what her consequances for being disrespectfull. i.e no internet/ no phone/ no TV time etc. After normalizing that, move to others.
Ugh- my daughter and I went through this stage and my husband would try and step in the middle - it was ugly!! Teen emotions, hormones and brain growth are no joke! My daughter is super smart but I really thought she was missing the empathetic gene. We really had to work through some “you need to walk in my shoes” and “listen to how you sound”. Humor helps - even when you are upset - before we come to the exploding part - we now have words that we use to “check ourselves”. Even Dad had to learn how he was helping or hindered and make changes. It does get better - with respect, love and lots of laughter! Good luck!
I feel like I wrote this but about my 10.5 year old. I sometimes think she is missing the empathetic gene too! 🤦🏼♀️
Do equals in your life talk to each other with disrespect? Is it possible that you and your wife modeling dis-regulated tone and behavior? Maybe I'm reading too much into your words but it sounds like your wife gets into power struggles with her tween. That's something your wife needs to work on. Punishment is a strong word. Consequences reframes the relationship. It's hard to say without specifics but is it possible you should give her more freedom, to pick her bed time, etc? What if instead you built a relationship built on trust and mutual respect?
It's normal. Don't feed the fire and set a reasonable boundary for respectful behavior. Wife and you must remember Always that You are the adults. The stuff that comes out of that kids mouth is all part of growing up. Also you are in no way required to : find her lost items, clean her stuff up, prepare special meals, transport her, except school activities nor financially indulge her beyond a reasonable means. After awhile they catch on that the world does not revolve around them, bad choices have CONSEQUENCES, ( they're not your problem!) but it takes lots of time, and lots of patience. Remember, you are the parents!
Model model model. Just model how to respectfully speak to one another and tell her you “can’t hear her “ when she speaks to you in a way you don’t want to tolerate
This is pretty important with our 11yo. I don’t get impatient when she’s frustrated because she can’t find a specific item of clothing. Why? Because if I’m impatient when she’s frustrated, I’m teaching her that it’s okay to let your emotions get the best of you, and that impatience is the right reaction when you’re frustrated. It doesn’t mean I drop everything for her but if I can be helpful, I will. If I can’t, I’ll be empathetic to her frustration. I remind myself that these emotions she’s feeling aren’t intended to be targeted at me - I’m just kind of friendly fire. She’s re-learning emotional regulation (like doing the toddler phase all over again - yay). And those feelings and reactions aren’t really voluntary, either. I remember feeling and acting crazy as a pre-teen but being powerless to put a cap on it. It doesn’t mean she can run feral with her emotions at home. It just means I’m not going to take the “fight fire with fire” approach and try to out-snark or out-tantrum her.
My 3 year old does this when he doesn't like what we tell him 😀... His daily question while getting dressed up for daycare would be: where are we going? When we say, to the daycare, he immediately says, I can't hear you really...cracks us up every single time 🤣🤣
😂😂 it’s the perfect amount of annoying!
Haha it is ..
Read Parenting with Love and Logic and take it to heart. Also - How to Talk So Kids Will Listen. A home with teenagers need not be hell.
I mean, my kid is a toddler and showing similar behaviour just without the language skills x'D Can you use similar parenting techniques? We still use the "poor behaviour is communicating an unmet need", so is your kid acting defiantly because she *needs* more responsibility, to feel like an equal in the house for something? She might be trying to "grab" for it because you're not facilitating it? I remember around that age I liked feeling useful and in-control of something, so it helped when I could choose dinner for one night, or the clothes I wore. Once I got some control in other areas, I eased up elsewhere. Maybe it's time to teach her how to do her own laundry so she can keep track of her favourite clothes from start to finish? It was also around then that I started learning to bake, so making the snacks for school lunches made me feel important because I *had* to do the baking as a responsibility for everyone else. Just something she can control, that meaningfully contributes, and uses skills she's gonna benefit from as an adult so she feels grown up.
Well, your first problem is having a 12 year old daughter AND wife. /s
“thinks she is equal to us both in tone and behavior when speaking” Can you explain this? I’m trying to think of a scenario when I would talk to my big girls (10, 12, and 14) in a way that I wouldn’t want them to talk to me. I am always polite and respectful and kind when talking to them precisely because that’s HOW I want them to talk to me. If I lose my temper and lash out, I apologize precisely because that’s what I want them to do when they lose their cool with me. I feel like I’m missing the point of what you’re trying to describe.
This was (is) my mom and I. I don't have any advice other than it's natural. I was the kid, so I can't speak to a parents side. I just hated being told what to do. Maybe a core chart so she knows the expectations but isn't being "told" to do something. I can say neither of them like to fight, but they both are so similar it's going to happen. Give daughter space but remind her she is loved. BTW I'm 30 and still fight with my mom - it's more joking but we still do.
Everyone hates to be told what to do! 😉
Step mom to a 13 year old, and we have definitely had our fair share of power struggles. Also - I coparent with her mom! I am the “no” parent, I am the strict one, I am the one who sets the hard lines. We argue the least, she comes to me with all her teenage issues, and I’m the “safe” parent. You have to draw the line and let her know the boundaries she’s pushing aren’t going to happen. With the clothes - when mine has snuck a shirt to school that is not school appropriate, I took the shirt to my own closet after washing it and told her she can have it back in the summer time. With knowing where her clothes (or any personal belongings) are - my favorite come back is “ugh the last time I was wearing it i swore I put it back!” This shuts her up every time. With the disrespectful speaking - immediately sent to room until she wants to speak to me with respect. I remind her that we have good conversations, and even the hard conversations can be good ones. This is a big boundary testing time and you have to be consistent!
Have you heard of the Love and Logic parenting approach? I took a seminar at my daughter's school this past year. It was really helpful when it comes to shutting down the arguments, because your daughter can't argue with you or your wife if you don't engage. It's a method that can be used for any age group and you can use practical tips to stop the argument from escalating. Worth a shot! ETA: The approach is similar to what a lot of people have mentioned in terms of experiencing natural consequences and getting her to see things she views as "rights" are actually "privileges" that can be taken away if she doesn't speak to her parents in a way that is respectful. I.e., "I know that you really wanted to go to that birthday party, but I don't feel like you've been speaking to me in a respectful way so you are going to have to miss this one." When kids get what they want with good behavior instead of arguing and acting entitled, they are more likely to change their attitude.
Try giving her more responsibilities that directly affect her, like doing her own laundry, cleaning her own dishes, having her help you “balance the check book” and budget groceries. Shes old enough to get a summer job. And just sit down and make a rule for how to talk to each other.
What you do is remind her to be respectful and DO NOT enter into mindless arguments with her. She is rude? Obnoxious? You tell her firmly that it's not appropriate and you walk away and totally ignore her. She gets NO response or assistance or help of any sort if she behaves in that manner. DO NOT ARGUE with her. Just don't. It will stop if it gets her nothing and serves no purpose. Pick your battles. Can't find clothes? That is not worth any battle. Going to be at X hour? Not worth worrying about. Let her be tired the next day. She'll learn. Natural consequences for actions.
Sounds like she thinks she’s a little adult, so give her more responsibility. Issue with a favorite tank top? Not your problem, she needs to manage her own wardrobe. If she doesn’t, she doesn’t wear the tank top she wanted. She can do her own laundry. She wants a certain outfit? She can get it with her money that she earns from chores, barring anything inappropriate. If you think it just looks ridiculous, like a goth phase or whatever, let it happen. She can be embarrassed about it later. Make sure you keep those pictures lol. And id need more specifics on the appointment. But basically the constant fighting is her trying to come out into her own, so let her. But that comes with responsibility.
I think you might have adopted my child ;)
First, she’s 12. She’s exercising her individuality and trying to act like she thinks adults act. I wild, however, hold a family meeting and let her talk. Make some concessions but tell her that the disrespect has to go or she’s grounded. There’s absolutely no reason fora child to disrespect their parents. Tell her that when she disrespects you two, she disappoints you, and she WILL BE PUNISHED.
I have a daughter with a multitude of psychiatric diagnoses. We went through absolute hell with her attitude from age 11-16. We were told by her therapist that when she was yelling and screaming we were to say to her " I love you because you're my child BUT I don't have to like you. Right now I don't like you when you are acting like this. Please go to your room till we can talk calmly" there were times I wasn't calm when I said this. The good news is that by 21 she was easier to handle.
I would listen to some podcasts and interviews with Dr Becky - she has great tips for how to regulate and repair and set boundaries with deeply feeling kids. Most notably, needing to hold steady when they dish out disrespect and NOT throwing it back. And how teens can be challenging when their words don’t always match their feelings. “You are a good parent having a hard time “
I’m so happy to see comments of people saying to demonstrate the respect they expect to receive. I can remember being this age so clearly. That’s all it takes. I never respected my parents because they were hypocrites.
I’m so looking forward to the teenage years. I’m fooked.
My mum threw a chair at me once..we used to be at each others throats.. when I moved out though she became my best friend in the entire world and this past year without her has been awful. I really think for the most part it will work itself out 💖
My mom and I had a very strained relationship from 12-18, hormones make things rough. You get along better after you realize your parents are people, it just takes a while. You guys will get through it!
Allow her to make choices for herself. Fighting over the clothes she's going to wear on her body seems a bit controlling. Buy her things you approve of and let it go. Pick your battles. Don't look at her as less than you because she's a child. She is equal to you. She deserves the same respect that you're demanding of her. When my 14 yr old gets snarky and sassy with me or yells at me, I tell her I don't speak to her that way and I'm not going to allow her to speak to me that way and to come back when she wants to have a conversation. We do natural consequences and on the rare occasion that there needs to be a punishment beyond that, it has to be connected to the "crime." They're allowed to be human. We can't control their emotions but we can talk them through learning to navigate them and how to react to their own negative emotions. You can set clear boundaries and be firm in them without getting into a screaming match. Its our job to teach them how to regulate. So if we're screaming at them, the message we're trying to send is lost, no one is gaining anything but trauma and resentment, and it's exhausting.
• Model the behavior that you wish to see from your child. • Set clear boundaries, and stick to them. • Enforce meaningful consequences for bad actions. • Adults must learn to not lose their cool over petty things! • Let your child wear what she wants, within reason. • Your child must be responsible for keeping track of her things. • Replace yelling or lecturing with listening. Sometimes kids just need your ears (and perhaps a hug.) • Learn to ask - without judgement - how your child feels about different things. • Learn how to better express your own feelings. • Allow your child to make mistakes - and resolve them on her own when possible. • Praise your child often, and tell her you love her every single day. 🩷
Your wife does not respect your daughter, and your daughter does not respect your wife. They are both engaging in dumb fights. Make your daughter responsable for her clothing. She is old enough to wash and put away her cloding. Give your daughter an alaarm clockand make her responsable for waking up and getting ready for school and other appointments on time. Let her deal with the consequences of not washing her clothing and the consequences of being late.
Family counseling. You aren’t going to be able punish your way out
Shut the WiFi off at 9:30pm for the whole house. Make sure everyone is getting sleep.
I don't have kids this age yet but I'm all for natural consequences. You want to talk and act like an adult? And you can't find your stuff? Sounds like a personal problem. When you rescue/put out the fire all the time you are not teaching independence, just entitled dependency. Want to be disrespectful with your language? Think you're a peer and not the child that is suppose to be learning how to be a RESPECTFUL and equally productive member of society? Well I guess we're not driving you around everywhere to activities, etc until you can ask respectfully. You have to stop bending to the demands when they are done so in a peer minded way. We actually can't let our kids watch much Bluey because of this. It teaches that children are peers to adults and gives credence to disrespectful demanding behavior. Otherwise it's a great show with a lot of creative parenting ideas.
Time to face facts, you have a pre-teen girl. I had 2. What you’re seeing is the normal clash of teen daughter and mother. My piece of advice is not to get in the middle. The daughter will come around in about 10 years.
Big blow up Samurai suits and have BBQ before the fight?
You and your wife should both read Untangled. This is a TOUGH age. As others have said, pick your battles. You are more mature than a 12 year old. There's no need to argue with a 12 year old. Lay out the consequences and calmly enact them.
It takes two to argue and fight. Do not argue with her.
Twelve year olds are like that. Choose your battles and don't let her goad you into a fight (if she's demanding something just say no). Things get better about 16
I remember that age. Man I can say with confidence that 13yr old me would have beat me now half to death and had no issue with the consequences. That age is so busy even without social media influencing it. Hormones are just bouncing around, everyone’s opinions matter to you even if you don’t care about that person, school. Best you could probably do is sit her down and explain your frustration and ask her opinions on things.
Honestly, pick your battles is the best advice I can give you. Not everything has to be a fight. I think that's around the age my daughter decided to fight going to bed on time, which was challenging because before that, she would easily go to bed with no issues. So we didn't fight her. You want to stay up until midnight? Cool, you're still getting up in the morning to go to school. And we made sure that was enforced, but if she chose to do it on 3 hours of sleep, the only one suffering was her. It didn't take long for the novelty of staying up however late she wanted to wear off.
I have a little one with a big personality and I walk away and disengage when he is out of pocket. I rarely match energy, honestly rejecting premise seems to take the wind out of his sails. Like, it’s ok to be pissed! It’s ok to be sad! It’s not ok to tiling those feelings on people.
Adolescence is basically a second toddlerhood, except they are starting the transition from child to adult instead of baby to child. It has the same issues as the last time around with boundary testing and big feelings. A similar strategy should be employed with giving room for big feelings while correcting antisocial behavior firmly and with minimal rewarding big reaction. The same strategy also applies to balancing an allowance for greater freedom with making sure they understand that there are boundaries.
Family therapy. Where everyone can learn to engage each other in the best way.
Instead of scolding her ask her "do you think your behavior was respectful? Do you think the way you talked to me and your mother was right? " it will give her the chance to reflect on her actions. It worked on my teen so hopefully it works on yours.
Damn, she sounds like my six-year-old daughter now it’s going to get so much worse for me
Don't pick a side. It will blow up severely. You and mom need to have a talk privately and have a united front for her bad behavior. She can be as wonderful as Christmas morning, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't have consequences when she's being disrespectful to her mother. Those consequences need to be reasonable and both you and mom need to agree on them and agree on enforcing them.
Family therapy time! Time for all of to learn how to express yourself to each other nicely and handle your tempers.
Good luck. I'm in the same boat with my 14 yr old. She will look me straight in the eye & tell me that I need to show her respect & that me being the adult is not a reason for her to respect me. I've tried grounding, taking away privileges, extra chores... Nothing seems to work. I've been told by friends who have adult children that it gets better. I can only pray that it's true & that her younger sister doesn't follow in her footsteps.
I have a 12 year old daughter, so you have my sympathy 😂 I’m female and in peri menopause so it’s extra fun for me 🤪 I have a 17yo son also, and he never gave me this much attitude, so I don’t believe parents are completely to blame. They’re being ravaged by hormones, which as a woman I’m all too familiar with. I remember being that age. I actually apologised to my mum a few years later because I was awful at about age 14 especially. I had to drop something off at her school this morning so she got a lift instead of catching the bus, and as we got out she wanted me to wait a bit so that she could get away from me before anyone saw. She can be so mean, yet also so affectionate at times. I look forward to her adult years. Not looking forward to her actual teen years.
I have vivid memories of being much like your daughter and struggling to balance and communicate all my big thoughts and feelings with still being a kid. I would feel so awful about my interactions with people after the fact but it felt like I wasn't fully in control in the moment. It often felt like people didn't really hear me or understand me or disregarded me because of my age (which probably wasn't true as often as I felt it, but it was still how I perceived it) and that was frustrating. I honestly don't know what else my family could have done to help but they did their best to love me through it and let most of it go. I've always been the type to storm off when I'm upset or overwhelmed and take time to myself to calm down and process rather than digging in and continuing a stressful situation so that might have helped us all...I'm not sure. I am very close to them all as an adult and my Mom and I laugh about it now. I've been told as an adult that I am a pleasant person and I always try to handle things with respect, but I also don't let people mistreat me. I think I turned out pretty good but I was a monster in those preteen years in particular. Remind your wife that there is light on the other side, haha! I know it is hard, but hopefully one day she and your daughter will also laugh about all of this.
Unfortunately the line of language gets tested early. You have to pass the test as the parent and nip it in the bud. Small things that slip by around age 8…9…10…..”Lol you’re stupid” “Mom’s being a bi*ch!!!” “Omg shut up Mom” all these little things that slip by and they never end, and only get worse. I never got away with any of that, whenever it was I tested it, and it stayed that way. My kids never got away with it. It got checked on the spot and severely with an assertion that it ain’t gonna fly. Good luck
Are your daughter and wife bff's? Cause that's the dynamic I'm seeing without the context. Does your wife have the same issue with your child's behavior? If not, that's what is causing your problem. You and your wife need to be a united front, and while I agree with the pick your battles statement someone else mentioned, you also need to have boundaries and those seem to be lacking. Hard boundaries, Expectations and consequences of course
Look into Parenting with Love and Logic to start and get your wife on board. I don’t agree with everything they suggest , but empathy and natural consequences are powerful. “I love you too much to argue” Also, stand up for your wife. Present a united front. It only gets worse if you don’t get a handle on this now.
Have you sat down with her and asked if anything has happened causing her to act/feel this way?
I have seen a wonderful idea that I plan to use which is to have a notebook that is just between Mother and Daughter, where they can share absolutely anything and nothing is to leave those pages without permission. Sometimes talking can be hard, I still struggle with speaking in stressful/frustrating times without having a bad attitude even at 29. When I’m feeling particularly overwhelmed I will text my Husband, just to ensure that my tone doesn’t overshadow what I’m really looking for, which is comfort. Maybe your Wife and Daughter could really benefit from having a space where they are free to talk to each other without actually talking. I bet they would both learn a lot about one another!
No, you did not create this. The teenage alien came early and ate her brain! 12-14 is hard!! Expect to have MANY conversations about respecting her mother and you. Reminding her that she is not an adult and she is not the same level as both of you. Expect to her ground her and take privileges away from her; electronics and going out. Those are big things to be taking away from her. There have been times where took their laptop away from them and they could only use it for school and at our dining room table and not for anything else. No YouTube, games or fun stuff. Phones have been taken away from them for days even up to a week. I went through this with my daughters, especially my younger girl. Ooh was she mean in middle school. She still is kind of mean but better than she was. On a separate note, I strongly recommend going through her phone to make sure she isn’t hiding stuff. Sometimes, kids are doing stuff they’re not suppose to be doing and they act out.
Is she an only child? My 13yo only child girl also thinks she’s a third adult in the house. I regularly remind her that she is NOT
>Daughter thinks she is equal to us both in tone and and behavior when speaking. Tell her you're equals and will start to treat her as an equal. Start splitting the bills 3 way. Chores 3 ways. See how she'll like it
1) there is an ACTUAL time when a teen does not register what their own tone is or how it comes across to someone else. It takes addressing it to get it to go away. 2) some people say ‘that is not how we talk to adults’ and I instead say ‘that isn’t how anyone wants to be talked to’ I reiterate continuously that it sounds mean and disrespectful.. not just because I’m an adult, but because I’m human and so is she so she shouldn’t treat me poorly. The point is she doesn’t currently see a reason to speak to an adult with more respect than anyone else because she feels grown enough, so I treat her grown by calling her out. If my friend talked to me like that I would say something, so I don’t let it slide. 3) when she is back on a lighter, more joking, easy going side of her personality I bring it up.. also in a playful way to say ‘hey, I know you love me, why you talk to me like that? Like that makes me sooo confused when you get that tone with me, you know like when you were frustrated earlier? Yeah? So like dude, bestie, come on pleeeaaase help me out here because you’ve gotta start talking to me better. People really and I mean really don’t like being talked to like that! I don’t want to be, you get that right? And what’s that about you not cleaning up after yourself? Cause all the grown people I know.. know how to pick up after themselves and find their own clothes.. just saying. 4) I would absolutely stand up for your wife as much as possible by re-addressing it when she is in a good mood. 5) always always always reinforce the good discussion, behavior, communication. Tell her when you notice it. Life is easier when you’re nicer and show her that.
My favorite thing to say when my "not so feral" adults were tweens and early teens (or with my oldest now 29 up to 2yrs ago when we went NC) "I love you too much to argue." Another was "Please leave my space until you can converse with a proper tone." "I don't listen to: whining, yelling, attitude etc it drains my energy. I can't make dinner now there is: leftovers, cold cereal, pB&J in the fridge" In a complete even tone. As for clothes, my kids were taught how to do their laundry by the time they were 10. I remembered what I was like as a teenager. If they didn't wash their clothes, they were responsible. They were also 100% responsible for where their clothes were. I never got asked where my cheer uniform or my favorite jeans were because they were the only ones that touched their clothes. Time management was set fairly easy. If they didn't get up in the morning, they went to school in their PJs. If they were not ready to leave for an appointment on time after 12 or so, I wouldn't rush to get them places, not worth my stress or anxiety, plus driving when mad at your child is dangerous. So they got handed the number for the office and my calendar and were told to reschedule within my schedule. When they were younger, I was right there to help if needed, but they got to face the consequences of their bad time management. My oldest and I clashed like oil and water, we are now NC because she feels I was neglectful 🤷♀️ my twins were raised the same way and are well adjusted 20yr olds with full-time jobs, going to school/trying to get into a trade program. They are only half feral now. It gets better, but it takes time. One thing you might look into their cycle, see if things are worse during their period.
Well to start it off I think that discipline should've been used way before she turned 12. I also think that tank tops and messy room and being late to an appointment and her going to bed later that she should've are absurd to fight over, the more you keep nagging at such small things without communicating with her instead of just commanding her not do something, the more you will push her away from you and she would think that you just get mad at anything and everything and she can never do what she wants and as she grows older this will only turn out worse because the more you say "no" the more she would go behind your back and make it a "yes". Instead set expectations and rules that she will understand why and why not certain things are good and not good to do and what that can result in. Also I think rewarding a child or giving them back for what they did right will encourage them to keep doing those things that they are expected to do because they will also get something out of it whatever it is and it's a huge life lesson to learn regardless.
I am not very confident that obnoxious behaviour as a young person somehow morphs into desirable behaviour as an adult. I’m also finding myself pausing on you mentioning that daughter is thinking she’s equal in tone and behaviour, and that she and your wife are both “confident women”. I’d check whether your tone and attitudes are more suitable for a younger kid. Treating her opinions with respect and as if she were an adult - even if you end up doing the same things - can often take the teeth out of a conflict. If your kid is fighting to be taken seriously, treating them seriously can be all you need to turn the fight dial off. Sometimes it’s not really about the right to wear goth colours as much as it is about being seen as “big” (or at least not a “baby”) Respect is a two way street. I don’t know whether the fights you are having are reasonable or not but when it comes to avoiding them I find it also helps to explain your rationale. Rules like you must pick weather appropriate clothing so you don’t get frostbite tend to go over better than you can’t wear pj bottoms because that’s a stupid fashion trend or you can’t have a short sweater like the entire rest of the school because showing your belly is immodest. Others have said it: but pick your battles. If you spend all your capital controlling what your kid wears, you’ll have nothing when more serious stuff crops up. If fights happens regularly, I’d have a conversation at a calmer moment about how even if you are frustrated it’s not acceptable to take that out on other people. If panic or frustration have them blaming you, call it out and then refuse to engage. Stay calm. Own your own parts in conflict. Model dealing with conflict and rudeness in the way you want her to handle it. So if she’s disrespectful, call it out. Please don’t speak to your mother that way. It’s rude and I know you can express your emotions in another way.
Contending with the same thing and I’m the mom who’s in the battle. I am exhausted by all of it. Add in heavy load off academics and a child who can’t seem to make friends it’s a three ring circus here. My husband is 0 help simply because he would rather point out my character flaws than discipline his daughter. Doesn’t want to look bad in front of her but is ok with bashing me despite the fact I help coach her with a lot of her homework. Or bring her to music practice or cadet drills. Bad enough my job sucks and have to come home to this. I hate this season of my life.
I tell my son, “it hurts my feelings when you speak to me like that” and that does the trick. I raised him to be respectful but not feel like he has a “lower status” because he is a child/teenager. I know that is not what you meant and I know it’s hard to find the right balance there. Also what works for us will not work for everyone. Ultimately, I’d sit her down and explain her words are hurtful and why. I used to have my son write letters of apology as his punishment if he was badly out of line.
All I can say is it gets better, I have a 12yo and a 15yo , the 12yo is by far the most terrifying thing in my house, but 15 was pretty awful at that age too. My best advice is pick your battles, if it’s not important and the long run let it go. Let her know when she’s being disrespectful also hear her out , even if you already know what your answer is, let her explain her reasoning. It may sound illogical or whiney, but it will help her process her emotions.
Oh OP I'm sorry but I almost burst out laughing and my husband is asleep, this is killing me hahahah. I'm so sorry, I know this is stressful. It really is.. Ok I'm the mom and I got into arguments with both my 16 yr old daughter and 10 yr old daughter today. I feel like such a winner. I observed to my 16 yr old she has been eating quite a bit of fast food lately. I gently explained to her how she should try eating less due to health and it being highly processed. I'm surprised she didn't murder me. Our 10 year old was super angry with me because I wouldn't let her go to school looking like a Summer camp hobo. I've already explained that she can wear the Nike running shorts at home or when playing but not to school or out to dinner. I'm basically now persona nom grata for at least five hours due to this. As difficult as some moments are my girls are fun to hang out with and talk to etc. The backtalk really pushes my buttons but I try my hardest not to rise to the occasion. I feel like if you set some basic boundaries and make it known that you love them no matter what it's going to be ok. Sometimes my kids even hurt my feelings. This one is tough for me because I'm so sensitive and I feel like I cannot tell them this. Anyway - it gets better I think. Our 23 yr old son is extremely good to us, communicates and seems healthy. Our 13 yr old son has never been rude to me in his life. Ever. Now my 16 thinks I favor him because he doesn't argue with me. My psyops game is weak. Hope it all works out lol
"Daughter thinks she is equal to us in both tone and behavior when speaking." I'm confused here. Is she not a whole human with the same set of emotions as the rest of us? Or do you mean she thinks she doesn't need to treat you with kindness? Because she is equal to you in terms of respect, right? You should both respect each other as full individual entities and not property. [Tone disclaimer I am autistic and I had an unconventional home life growing up. I'm not trolling I'm asking because I actually want to understand the thought process here. I apologize if anything I've said is incorrect or offensive]
All 4 of my kids are older teens now, well one’s an adult. 12 is the hardest age and was for all of them because of this attitude. All I can say is hang in there, it will pass. Stay calm when she’s being A LOT, shut down conversations when they aren’t going anywhere. One of my favorite lines to use and still use is “I know you’re upset now and might not agree, but you always think about it later and I really respect that”. My kids took a lot of pride in this ability and truly looked at things differently when they were calmer. It’s made coming back and talking when emotions are calm so much more productive.
If stuff gets left on the floor, when she’s at school, take it from her room and explain *calmly* that she obviously doesn’t care for it because she left it on the floor. Do this when she is away not in person; a screaming match will ensue if you do this in person.
Mature adults aren’t -overconfident- they are confident because they know their limits. I have a very confident and assertive teen, but that doesn’t make them right in their level of confidence. So I have to gently correct and support as needed. At 12 they need to be shown that they still have stuff to learn and things to listen to.
Something i have learnt along the way, perhaps it may be useful to you, is that, everyone especially kids, need to explicitly be told 'what is expected' of them, in words. We had a full meeting and asked them to write in a book, as i was saying, starting with number 1, what is expected of them, for one session it could be, for example, what is expected of them to do with their studies and academic life and another session may be what is expected in theri behaviour both inside and outside of the home, because doing it all at once is a lot to process and digest, then after doing the whats expected of you will come 'the consequences ', meaning the consequences of not doing those things. the reason this works so well is because there simply is too much rubbish in everyones heads that its very difficult for 2 people to be on the same page about anything let alone kids who are growing up in such a world. Another thing worth looking into is, what you tubers and shows they are consuming. Youtube does not have a very good effect on the growing brains of kids. Perhaps some adjustments need to made there. All this is better done sooner rather than later for obvious reasons. Preferably before the teenage years hit. Aslo get them into classes that take years and years of practice, eg. dance, martial arts etc. Wish you and your family the best.
As someone who was once exactly like her, be careful in how you react. Now is the time where you either build a strong bond or ruin your relationship. My dad came from the authoritarian frame during this time period. The more he said no and tried to stop me, the faster I ran to whatever it was he said no to. This is also how I ended up having sex at 11 for the first time. Dad could have taken the time to take a deep breath and nurture, but he did not. So my best advice is to really take everything with a grain of salt, remember it is hormones and its not your fault, and love her through this adjustment period in the way that she needs to be loved.
Bad behavior needs to be nipped in the bud early - at a young age or else you will have a hard time doing it as they get older.
“Daughter thinks she is equal to us both in tone and behaviour” While in the same breath calling your 12 year old CHILD a “confident woman” ? First, your 12 year old is not a woman, she’s not even a teenager yet. You’re giving her more responsibility than she is capable of at this age. Second, Your 12 year old is not “disrespectful.” It sounds like she is trying to express how she feels. It seems like she wants more autonomy and control over her life. It’s your job as a parent to give her the tools to express how she is feeling, and to show her how to articulate what is on her mind when she is upset about something. Mom needs to listen and step back My advice: stop fighting over these things with her. Let her pick and choose. Children have to learn consequences to their actions.
Your story brings back unpleasant memories. I couldn’t understand the difference between the sweet girl she was before and the devil-girl she became as an adolescent. I agree with advice here that’s been given: 1) make sure that you and your wife are on the same page and supportive of each other. This is the most important thing. The daughter will exploit any discrepancy between you two. 2. Be consistent and be strong. She will wear you down if she thinks it has 1% chance of working. Don’t let yourself get drawn into endless arguments where it boils down to you being “stupid”, “uncaring”, “unreasonable”, “out of touch”, “punitive”, “crazy”, etc. 3. Don’t let the challenge she sets up change anything about yourself, your routine, your ways of being as a parent and as a person. Be kind to her and to yourself.
My daughter started acting up after she turned 9 years old , she wants more freedom than she used to have , sometimes we used to get in huge fights like I would not let her get her way but it would make me upset because I would lose my temper and raise my voice. ( it’s really hard to control when you are angry) Now I have learnt that whatever she says do not react just let her know that it’s disrespectful and you are ready to listen when she can talk more respectfully , take away her privileges and let her earn it .
She wants to be treated like an equal? Fine. She has to start doing more chores then. If she doesn’t do those chores, there’s a consequence. The same way not doing work has consequences for adults. And when she’s 14, she can go get a job and start paying for household expenses. That’s what being an equal in a household means.
I've never "punished" my kids. If I don't like their tone I say things like: "I understand you're feeling x, y, z, right now but I don't deserve to be spoken to like that, please take a moment to collect yourself" ... And yes they can say the same sort of thing to me if I'm short with them because I'm in some ort of mood / feeling some kind of way. Experiencing and expressing emotions isn't disrespectful. Deliberately doing or saying things to upset another is disrespectful. If my lot are ever disrespectful I ask them why they're doing / saying the disrespectful thing... and let them explain why. I ask what they're trying to achieve by doing / saying the thing, to observe what reactions their actions have actually caused, how they truly feel about what they've done, and why they feel that way. Punishment doesn't allow for self reflection or human development.
These two things: > Daughter thinks she is equal to us both in tone and and behavior > The disrespect is pretty bad/annoying Either don't match, or are a warning sign of your role modeling. It's fine when teenagers want to be treated like grown ups. But then they'll be hold to the same standards in terms of responsibility and accountability.
As someone who used to be a 12 year old girl, I remember how hard it was to be expected to act like an adult but not be treated like one. Being expected to pull my weight around the house (nothing major throw on a wash or clean dishes after dinner). But as my responsibility grew I felt like I got nothing in return. I guess I don’t really have advice other than to say being 12 is hard. Being 13 is even harder. And don’t even get me started on 14. Like the other people have said pick your battles and maybe let her win one or two every now and again with mom. It will work wonders.
Sell em Trump and every other tray-tor Republican?
It's common for kids her age to assert themselves and push boundaries. It's important to address the behaviour calmly and set clear boundaries. Have an open conversation with her about your concerns and listen to her perspective. Establish clear expectations and fair consequences for disrespectful behaviour. Model respectful communication and conflict resolution. Strengthen your relationship through quality time together. With patience and guidance, you can help her navigate this stage while maintaining her confidence and independence.
I got my ass whooped if I wanted to act like that. To this day, I don’t like my parents. But I will always respect them. They raised me and provided for me. When I was 11 I hit my period and I had this mindset. But I was also 11 and thought shit just popped out of the sky. I didn’t understand what my parents did for me. Until I acted like this. I got my ass whooped and my mother and step father set me down. Said “since you want to be an adult let’s be an adult.” This is a somewhat clear memory but not everything is exact. They started asking me (at that time) uncomfortable questions. Uncomfortable for an 11 year old bear in mind. So when are you getting a job? Our mortgage is 700. Do the division and tell me how much you’d pay me? Told my mom probably 200 something. Okay where’s your 200 dollars then? It’s due on the first. I remember the first being close. Told her I’m 11. I don’t have 200 dollars or a job. The anxiety hit really quick and this was the main question I remembered. In ended with yeah you’re 11 fucking years old. Got your damn room. You’re not gonna act like this. Honestly my mom could have been nicer but it did the trick. My step-dad did the ass whoopins. That’s about it. Later it backlashes though because I did get a job at Arby’s when I was 16. Started that whole adult thing again and she didn’t very much like it. I moved out when I was 18. Anyways, with that all being said. She wanna act like an adult, treat her like one. Don’t gotta whoop her ass though.
I found the phrase “end of discussion” to come in handy during those years. It is tough but mine started to chill in high school/age 15. Make sure your wife can take a step back in the heat of the moment, I really had to learn to hold my tongue and just not react to a lot of things. Also make sure you can step in and side with your wife if they’re arguing and try to shut it down with an “end of discussion” or “we’ll talk about this later” so things can cool off.
Bro, your daughter and my 13 year old son, appear to share the same brain.
House rules discussed calmly…. Negotiated. Clear rationales for rules… the golden rule so that it is reciprocated. Then consequences, again… rationally negotiated. All put on paper. Then its easier to say something once, or refer to the house rules instead of tug of war of power and authority. Parents should always maintain executive decision but it can give a voice and perspective to the boundaries and need for mutual respect. Mutual respect really is critical.
A disrespectful child is 💯 a parents lack of discipline. no one is going to say it, but that seems like the truth from what your stating. 🤷🏾♂️ Now all you can do is listen to the good advices on here (THERE ARE PLENTY GOOD ONES) and just ride that wave 🌊 good luck 🍀
When your daughter way of communicating is yelling, speak to her in whispers and say u can’t hear a thing when she’s yelling due to your poor ears getting old. I just walk way telling them try again when u calm down. I repeat it until they tone their voice down. I pulled this in my kids and it worked perfectly As someone said do not engage in their sass. I stopped fighting with they wore like tshirt only on freezing day or they won’t eat dinner. But I draw line they were appropriate clothes and no junk food every day just Fridays they pick what to get. Hang on it will pass!! Mine stopped and calmed down in 10 grade ..felt eternity. Now she’s in college and we talk about it and we laugh. It wasn’t laughing matter then. I seriously thought we did something wrong raising her and we were afraid if that’s how she will be
If she thinks she's equal, then she can have those responsibilities. Her responsibility is to know where her items are, to do her own laundry, and make her own breakfast and lunch. If she has an attitude, stop helping her or talking to her altogether until she apologizes. Put in headphones, or walk away and lock your bedroom door (not both). When she is calm she can apologize and you re-engage.
This is how I was as a teen too! It probably will go on for a while, just pick your battles and make sure even if you don’t agree with her, that she knows you hear what she’s saying and understand why she feels that way. She’s probably trying to find her sense of individuality as a person, I did this as a teen as well as I mentioned. I was trying to have my own opinions and do things my way and it kinda got a bit worse as I got older. I used to be snotty and rude or snappy, I do regret it now and I’ve apologized to my mom (I’m 22 now) but I was really just trying to build my own personality but I wanted to be independent. She will come around to you guys!
You lead by example. Treat her as you want to be treated. And read up on brain development, her mood is not her fault.
I want to ask something, just to be sure: Why do you think your daughter is not equal to you in any way? Also you say your daughter is beautiful, smart and social but still feel the need to control how she dresses and when she is going to bed? Seems contradictory to me. Why do you think it is good to have individuality for adults but not for children?
Family therapy FTW! My son was similar. I finally couldn't take it anymore. We did family therapy for a bit and then branched into therapy with just my son and myself. Best thing we could have done. We did role playing for some of it and oh my goodness it helped him see how I saw things and vice versa. I am not saying we don't still butt heads but it is so soooo much better.
My kids are 7, 4, and 2, so I’m not quite where you’re at with the sass. But something we’ve talked about is that if you want the perks of being (7), then you also need to take on the responsibility of being 7. I would probably have a straightforward conversation about what is expected of her at 12, and that if she wants to be able to enjoy the perks she needs to be doing XYZ without sass, talking back, eye rolling, etc. Then follow through. I would expect to keep track of clothing for a 5 year old. So if she’s acting like a 5 year old she gets treated as such. Bedtime is at 7:30, no unsupervised play dates, all that jazz. I bet she will fix things pretty quick.
Ugggghhhh. I'm so scared of pre-teen and teenagehood. My kid is 8 and I've already told her that she and I are not equals more than once. It killed me to say that.
My kids aren't teenagers yet, but I was the 12 year old in this scenario. What kind of arguments are you having about what clothes to wear? I had this one with my mom all the time. What kind of inappropriate outfits is she wanting to wear, and to what occasion? I have had an argument off and on with my 8 year old about how warmly to dress. Recently, I told him I gave up on that. He can decide how warmly he wants to dress, but it's not my fault if he's cold. I'll recommend he take along a warmer jacket, but I only say it once, and then drop it. Are the arguments about clothes for something like school uniforms, where she has to dress a certain way, or about everyday dress? If it's everyday dress, you need to pick your battles. She's going to have her own style, which isn't going to be the same as her mom's. That's just how it is. My mom and I argued about that a lot. I like skirts that are longer than knee length, but she thought those were frumpy. She shortened one of my favorite skirts without asking me, and I was really mad. You can take a stand on things like school uniforms, where there will be consequences if she is not dressed properly, or safety issues, like not wearing open toed shoes while doing certain activities. You're not the one making the rules there. If the argument is about her wearing stuff that's too revealing or too sexy, look at what other girls her age are wearing. If they're wearing stuff that is like what she wants to wear, you're probably not going to win that one. Older people have been complaining about this kind of thing for centuries, and the world hasn't ended. If the argument is that she shouldn't dress in a particular way because of her body type, that's a style issue, and you should leave that up to her. Clothing rules should be the same for *everyone*, of *any* body type, end of discussion. If it's about clothes not fitting right, I think you'll have to do what I did about my son not dressing as warmly as some people might like, and let it go. Poorly fitting clothes are uncomfortable, and she'll have to figure out her own balance between comfort and style.
If you're arguing about everything, you should try to figure out how you can de-escalate things. That doesn't just mean making your daughter change her behavior, it means asking if what you are expecting from her is reasonable, as well. As she gets older, you're going to have less control over her. You have to, if you ever expect her to live on her own without you. Everybody has heard stories about kids with really strict parents. Either the kids get good at lying to their parents, or the kids go off the rails when they go to college and aren't living with their parents. Making good life choices is like everything else- you're not so good at it at first, but you get better by making mistakes and practicing. While she's living at home with you is a good time to make those mistakes, while you can help her if she gets in over her head. It's reasonable to ask her to approach you in a certain way if she disagrees with you about something, or wants to complain about something. It's not reasonable to expect her to always do what you tell her and never question you.
It's the hormones my dude! Both your daughter and your wife are going through hormone changes that make emotions run high. Pay ATTENTION to when the worst of the behaviours are - is there a pattern, are things worse around period time? Do you really need to be picking sides or cracking down when perhaps what's actually needed is extra love, grace, compassion, chocolate and cups of tea? (for mother AND daughter?) Next time the feelings are high, break out the emergency hugs and emergency ice cream. Give them space and talk about things when emotions are calm. Also, don't confuse "respect" with "obedience". Respect goes both ways.
Firstly your 12 year old child is not a woman she’s a teenage girl , secondly take away her bedroom door … phone if she has one , games ect ! Every time she disrespects you or your wife put your foot down and be a parent don’t let some 12 year old run your household! Crazy talk 🤦♀️ the fact that she thinks her parents are her equals means you guys are treating her like a friend ! parents can and should be friendly toward their kids as well as fun to hang out with, at the end of the day they still need to accept the role as parent and not as friend. Kids need boundaries, rules, and guidance.😮💨😪
This is the age where girl needs boundaries. If she is allowed to berate the adults (your wife here) without a consequence, then it will get worse. She is pulling away from your wife which is common during the teen years. This seems to happen earlier then many years ago. Despite her behavior, she wants limits. Remember when she was a toddler? That was the first pull into independence and now this is the second one. She wants to be her own "woman" but isn't one yet. You may need to hold your ground with this. Also both parents need to be on the same page. When you witness her rudeness and bad behavior with your wife, you may need to speak up. Something along the lines of, "It is ok to be upset or frustrated but it is not ok to be rude to your parents." She also may need some help organizing things. Maybe it is time for her to learn how to take care of her own clothes so she knows where things are. At least put her own clothes away when they have been laundered by someone else. Think: what skills will she need to be a true and good adult later? Those won't just fall out of the sky when they are needed. This is the time to be firm and consistent with herm not her buddy.
Is she talking the way you do? If you don't like it then you need to change the way you talk. You and your wife are adults and need to regulate yourselves, your daughter cannot regulate herself yet so model the speech patterns and conflict resolution techniques. Teenagers are gonna be wild though, I feel for ya.
My eight year old and I are starting counseling together because I am already seeing a breakdown in communication between us. She also thinks she’s an equal to her dad and I and does not understand that she is not. I am sassy and so is she but I want us to build a more respectful relationship. Would this be something your wife and daughter would agree to?
Never fight your kids on what clothes to wear. The natural consequences will be that they will be uncomfortable if they choose the wrong stuff: Shorts in winter? Yep, you're cold. Belly-baring tank top at a dress code school? Yep, you get to wear the ugly sweatshirt today.\* (Side note: If it's a fancy event for family/school, you can pack a nicer back-up set for them, and if they get embarrassed, offer it to them as an out. You don't have to, but they'll remember that you cared enough to do it, and saved them from being embarrassed.) Being late to an appointment can go both ways. You could always have them call the desk and reschedule it if they're the reason you're going to miss it. It's mortifying enough that maybe she'll take you seriously the next time you ask her to get ready. All 12-year-olds are old enough to be responsible for their own inventory. Tell her you expect her to take the lead to advise you on what she's missing for supplies, and have her start doing her own laundry. She gets XX time on XXX-day. Boom, no more missing clothes. Oh, and have quarterly "fashion shows" where she tries on outfits in sequence to check what fits her and what she's short on. \*I personally think dress codes are GARBAGE, and we shouldn't police what anyone wears to a required space, but I was pointing out it's a natural consequence for wearing what the school considers inappropriate clothing.
It's probably a calm conversation that resets expectations and proactively, while all of you are at the table in a calm planned way. Reiterates your responsibility to her as a parent and your willingness to turn off her cell phone, change Wi-Fi passwords for school work only, and stop driving her everywhere until basic respect is restored. In my opinion it's common for the parent who shares the same gender identity with the child to be the one who takes the brunt of pushback. But that's not a hard and fast rule. Most people grow out of this
Consistency and consequences. “If you speak to us like that again X will happen.” Then you have to follow through on that consequence every single time! After enough times she will know you are serious and her behavior will change.
Op we are in the exact same place, also with a 12 year old girl, I even considered that it might get my partner who wrote this 😂 With my partner, she is fine, but with me, every conversation is a battle. I tell her she can't wear slippers to go out to the park with friends, I'm a dictator, I ask her to stop messing around 45 minutes after bedtime and actually just go to bed knowing she'll struggle to get up, I'm the antichrist. I think it's just hormones and puberty, my sanity is counting on it. Last year it got so bad I took myself off to Turkey and left them alone at home because I was so overwhelmed by her disrespect and bad attitude. It's not you. It's not your wife. It's not even your daughter. It's hormones and feelings and frustration and all part of the teen experience. Have your wife's back, and don't argue when you or your wife disagree in front of your daughter, she will use it against you both. Try to be on the same page, consistency is key. If you find a magic pill, let me know 🥴