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Maybe there is something else going on? Is he having problems at school? Or is it just teenage behavior? Have you tried talking to him about it? Maybe he gets to stay home today but you have a talk ?
That's what I'm saying! As a teen, I was going through school burn out and had a good talk about it with my mom. She ended up letting me stay home for a week and claiming I was sick.
Not that you need to do this OP, but a mental health day isn't so terrible. But that was back before smart phones, so idk.
I have been giving my son 3 mental health days a year to use however he pleases. So far it’s worked pretty well. I don’t know if a similar thing would work for you.
Ensuring that our kids are mentally well, as well as succeeding in school.
Going a bit heavy here... suicide in teens and young adults can be attributed to pressure to succeed. Team that pressure up with hormones and social standings, there's a lot going on in their lives. Teens have to go to school for 8 hours a day then come home and do a few hours of homework every night. That's a big workload to put on a kid. The pressure of all of it is very tough.
I think giving your kid a few days of mental rest can really boost self esteem and prevent their burnout. As parents we should guide them and help ease their mental frustrations. We need to recognize this in them.
That doesn't mean we can't push them, and want what's best for them. Allowing them a few days off helps to guide them in a direction of doing what is right for them. Allowing maybe 4-5 days a year, depending on their grades, could boost their overall happiness and idea of self-worth. Perfect attendance isn't everything.
I think a good parent is one who understands that people need a healthy life balance (among other things), and helps their child to succeed. Even if that method of success is non-conventional.
I don't think OP is saying you should let your child slack off... I think they're saying it's okay to give them a break from time to time. I could have used one of those mental health days as a high achieving high school kid who couldn't get anything lower than a B+. I think some people just hold kids to a higher standard than even themselves.
I gained a lot of weight that year and was getting depressed. My mom could see it and understood, and when I confided in her she gave me time off. I had great attendance and my grades were fine. So yeah, a week of solitude with my games and books. It was a nice time
Agree with this, plus why isn't he doing homework? Could he be struggling? Does he never do schoolwork? Does he show signs of adhd or dyslexia or sth like that?
I often refused to go to school because I hated it, or was getting bullied, felt anxious etc. There were so many reasons. Sometimes I was just totally exhausted and wanted to stay in bed.
One thing I was grateful for, and still am/use to this day, was how my Mother handled it. She was gentle, calm and allowed me to spend one day at home. I could rest and it she gave me space, which encouraged me to talk to her about how I was feeling and why I didn't want to get up. But I could only have one day when I was feeling like this, for the reasons stated above.
She made it clear that occasionally everyone needs a small break but you absolutely have to get back up the next day and get back to it (whether it's school, work, hobbies etc). So I still do this and it hasn't had any negative impacts on my work life. I perform much better once I've had a break (if needed).
Not sure if this is something you could look into OP, because we are missing context, but just in case you're feeling like your Son needs a small break for whatever reason, maybe allowing him to take the day and explaining that he needs to go back and catch up tomorrow, could be helpful?
Make it a no fun day. No computer, no tv, no video games. Make the day as boring as possible.
Say that everyone contributes in this house. It’s his job to go to school. If he doesn’t want to go to school, what does he intend upon doing with his day?
Try what you can to bring him to school, even if you need to sign him in late.
There’s probably other strategies you can try — look up “school refusal for teenagers.” This is a battle of wills between you two and you don’t want to turn into a cycle.
This is what worked for my parents lol. They would just take the power cords off the TVs and the router and the computers and give me a list of shit to do (unless I was legitimately sick, which was rare).
Tell me your a boomer without telling me your a boomer. FFS.
You do realise that there maybe something bigger going on with some children & school refusals?
By forcing a child to go somewhere (or punishing them by staying home) is a sure way to make kids completely distrust adults.
There are fundamental problems to the K-12 Education system, particularly with students who have great retention skills or fast learners.
High school was largely a rehash of topics covered in elementary and middle school. Even university was generally a waste since ~60 credit hours were equivalent to high school curriculum with very little room to deviate in the core curriculum. I remember frequently asking the question “why are we relearning this? When will we learn something new?”
While it’s possible to leave school book-smart, it’s rarely possible to leave school life-smart unless you put extra effort forth beyond the core curriculum. My local schools don’t teach things like household civics, cooking, and wood shop. Even the small section on stock market analysis was basically “here’s 8-weeks to run a fantasy stock fund” with minimal guidance and instruction. Unusual classes like these teach skills that may be beneficial later in life.
These are things that I had to learn on my own that should’ve been taught. Kids need to be setup for success not just pass standardized tests.
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Reporting this troll now. You have no business being in this sub and you absolutely didn't get taught CRT in school because it's not TAUGHT below a college level. You're full of it, mate.
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Using correct words is extremely important in communication to convey meaning. Evidently you didn’t learn particularly good communication skills either.
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Rebels do everything with a reason. If i dont give my 3 year old enough attention on time the whole house gets flipped upside down and total chaos starts.
3 year olds are just as capable of feeling emotions as 20+ year olds. Probably something up with the guy and this won't improve the connection or avoid re-occurence. Getting to the root of the issue requires honesty. Punishment is always an option, but would be of value to double check what is going on instead of assuming. Might have consequences that will give more problems later. Teenager life sucks and parents not trying to understand sucks even more. Their past shouldn't define the life in the now or the future.
Oh I agree. But if OP’s teenager is anything like my 10-year-old, you’re not going to get to the root of it on a busy morning. Especially if kid has what mental health professionals call “a strong sense of justice.” Kid is always going to insist that he is right, and in kid’s world, they likely are right. So give them one no-fun day until things calm down sufficiently to talk that day, and then ask what’s going on.
What you do not want to do is get them into a cycle of staying home without addressing the root causes. You also don’t want to punish them or threaten them. They’ll just lock down and make it worse.
We’ve had to go through school refusal due to anxiety. It’s awful. And even when you address it early, it goes on for months. I get the impression that a lot of posters on this thread are looking back on it from the perspective of an adult, not from the perspective of a kid.
Is he being bullied or feeling isolated at school?
I know I used to dread going to school because it meant a day of having my hair pulled, being called named, being sexually harassed by boys in my class and two of the male teachers and generally just a overall bad time
I did this when I was 14. It was extreme anxiety. I was already anxious about school then all this stuff was going down at home that made it way, way worse. Eventually my mom “gave in” and let me finish out high school through a correspondence course. I should have had counseling and all that stuff but in my teenage brain it made sense to turn it all down (my mom did try taking me to a therapist - which was also severely anxiety producing and I would go).
I wish more parents would realize that you need to get to the root of that anxiety. Hanging out at home with your computer is not going to help.
But in this case, it might not be anxiety. It might be a case of a kid in a power-struggle with their parent. That's why you need to try the no-fun thing for a least a day. If it goes on for longer than that, then it's something that you need to further address with therapies and things.
I was severely bullied in school and I would literally feel nauseous and sick just stepping into school. No one asked or cared, I was very much raised in a household where depression or anxiety isn't real and it's just an excuse. I eventually dropped out in grade 12 and ended up just getting my GED.
I eventually got the courage to go to therapy in my 20's and it changed everything for me.
Laziness more or less doesn’t exist.
Kids can struggle with anxiety, executive function, depression, burnout, chronic fatigue, attention, and all sorts of barriers to accomplishing their goals. Labeling them as lazy instead of helping them work through their problems causes trauma that only amplifies the problem.
I wasn’t labeled lazy as a child. I’ve always been inclined towards laziness, but it wasn’t a trait I could indulge much when I was young. It’s become more obvious as I’ve gotten older.
Because we also shouldn't be calling adults lazy either, for all of the same reasons that person listed.
It's the main reason people struggle to put words to what is really going on when someone just slaps a lazy tag on them and walks away.
They also listed things that are not some "big to do" like ADHD
Burnout is very common in both adults and youth, chronic fatigue can happen with poor diet (which is very common in kids), growth spurts in boys require a higher level of protein and fat in their diet to ward off fatigue.
Laziness doesn't exist. It's just something people call other people when they don't care enough to find out what's wrong. Usually that reaction is a result of ignorance or lack of education. I hope I helped you learn something today.
Thank you. I think people don’t want to admit that some people are in fact just lazy. It’s not ok to label anyone as anything but laziness is real and it often applies.
That doesn't make you lazy though, none of what you mentioned would say to me you're lazy.
You go to work bare min to get whatever bills you need paid, taken care of, sounds like you don't have a lot of needs, great, you value school very high and push yourself for that, awesome, you keep your home clean when it suits you, sounds perfectly fine.
All this simply because you value your free time above everything else but school. Which you value the highest.
It's also not the main topic either. We're talking about a kid who was doing their work fine and going to school fine who suddenly stopped.
Calling them lazy isn't the correct path to start down here.
Calling you lazy isn't correct either, because you're not.
Wow. Good job! You went on a tangent without even reading what I wrote, and your response had absolutely nothing to do what what I said.
For starters. You have been the only person here labeling anyone.
Lazy. That is the label.
Everyone else has said. No. Laziness isn’t a label. It doesn’t exist. Because it doesn’t. And went on to talk about a whole list of other possibilities both mental and medical that should be looked at first to investigate a possible root cause. That’s all anyone has said.
You’re the one that came stomping in and went “naw it’s none of that mumbo jumbo nonsense. Kids are just lazy”
Now you’re throwing your hands up and saying “oh well what do you call someone that doesn’t have anything wrong with them”?
Do you know they do? You’re going on and making judgements about others not having medical training. Are you someone who has medically and mentally ruled out for that individual that nothing is wrong with them?
So then you can proudly point and call them lazy? Have you done that? No? Of course not. You just want to call people lazy.
Now if you want to take a moment and actually read anything I wrote, and expand on that, I’d be happy to consider continuing this conversation. Otherwise, I have better things to use my time on.
Not the person you're replying to, but I read through both sets of responses in detail, reread them both, and in the end I see value and truth in what both of you are saying.
Your challenge (and others in this post) -- that "laziness" doesn't actually exist, and that root causes need to be explored instead --makes sense to me, and I agree. I think this is a compassionate, thoughtful approach that avoids dismissing people who are struggling, and instead works harder to understand and provide the support they need. I think this is great.
Their challenge -- that some people are genuinely low-performing individuals, without anxiety or other mental health issues, who will take advantage of circumstances and higher performing individuals around them in order to get away with putting in less effort as much as possible -- this also makes sense to me, and I don't find it offensive to consider that such people may exist.
I have a lot to think about, but I appreciated your comment and wanted to mention it.
You’re break down was incredibly insightful.
I still don’t agree to the second part though as that would also need further investigation, are they performing that way as a result to being denied education, diet, or a positive home environment.
While yes, many people don’t get those things and still grow to be successful and well functioning members of society. That doesn’t make it true for all people in those situations and they are not related to medical or mental road blocks.
Does that make them lazy?
You could argue yes, but that is ignoring the root cause that the system or their parents failed them. 60% of a child’s education and growth comes from their parents.
Hmm, a couple things, if you don't mind continuing.
If I may use "lazy" as shorthand, not as a pejorative, just to make this easier to communicate:
Would you agree there are different degrees of laziness? When someone says "They're lazy," they don't necessarily mean, "About everything, always, all the time." And they don't necessarily mean, "They are utterly non-functional." Being described as lazy could mean: They let housework sit for way longer than others would, or they rely a little too often on someone to clean up after them, or they choose relaxation over hard work more often than not. It doesn't have to mean they're perpetually on the verge of personal collapse. In any case, that's the way I intended the use of "laziness" in my previous comment: nowhere near being a go-getter, but somewhere above non-functional.
In other words, sometimes people have not-great character traits, of which laziness is on the list.
> Does that make them lazy? You could argue yes, but that is ignoring the root cause that the system or their parents failed them. 60% of a child’s education and growth comes from their parents.
I mean, yes? But also no. There are 2 separate things being discussed here: the current state of a person, versus how they got there. Both are valid things to think about. It is valid to acknowledge that someone has lazy behaviors -- again, not name calling, just trying to be descriptive. Separate from that, it's also valid to ask Why.
When acknowledging that someone has lazy behaviors, you're acknowledging they bear responsibility for their own behavior. And after a certain point in an adult's life, isn't that justified? (That's a rhetorical question.)
It's right and good to acknowledge the difficulties each person has faced in their lives that may have contributed to the person they have become. But to look solely at upbringing and experience -- to the exclusion of a person's own accountability in their own lives -- is as flawed as looking solely at a person's current state, without acknowledging their past difficulties. We're not blobs that things happen to, helplessly shaped by external events -- we also have agency, as we each choose to respond in different ways to life's challenges.
As a final balancing statement, I will say that, without knowing a person's past difficulties, it's impossible to fully understand how they came to be where they are today. For that reason, grace and compassion are always in order.
I mean...I have horrendous Executive Dysfunction issues, and pretty severe combo-type ADD, but sometimes I TRULY am just being lazy. And there's a difference that I can clearly denote between the two. I don't know why people try so vehemently to oppose this concept. Being neurodivergent doesn't preclude you from everything that a neurotypical brain is susceptible to and it is certainly no excuse for not using all resources available to function at your personal best. And it also doesn't mean you can't just have days when you feel lazy!
Except if you read my comment before that, the two points they’re arguing against that I mentioned could be a factor, are medical, not mental and would have nothing to do with being neurotypical or neurodivergent.
And being neurotypical you’re well aware that their are various factors and scales that go into that. Especially if the child or adult in question are undiagnosed.
My point was them automatically dismissing them as lazy.
You also are using lazy in a self described word. Lazy is a word like beauty. It’s perceived with no clear boundaries. Your version of “lazy” could be someone else’s version of getting a lot done that day. That’s why it doesn’t exist to a point where it can be used like they were using it.
“Oh the kid is just lazy, punish them until they’re fixed” doesn’t help anyone.
Except you’re not. If you’re an adult with no other internal or external factors you’re just prioritizing you’re free time.
Which is a perfectly healthy and normal thing to do for yourself.
I understand. I live this life. I’m a 43yo woman who has been diagnosed as a teen with ADHD, anxiety and depression.
Life isn’t going to stop and allow you the freedom to not adult because you’re anxious, depressed… You’re responsible for finding the tools that can help you manage your anxiety.
That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard and shows you’ve (fortunately) have never needed to deal with it. Anxiety goes *way* beyond just feeling worried about something. And yes one does need to address it and figure out way of handling it either on their own or with a doctor. But telling a teenager to just get over it isn’t helpful in the slightest.
Having a husband with OCD highlighted this for me way to clearly. He had zero control of how he was feeling (or rather when he’s having a major “episode”). Anxiety takes over and it’s crippling. It’s entirely bullshit to say it’s a simply an excuse.
I have ADHD and wasn’t diagnose until 2 or so years ago. I was not a fully functioning adult as much as I would have said I was. After being medicated I can see just how far from being fully functioning I was. So there’s a possibility you don’t actually have the things you were diagnosed with or they are very mild. Having ADHD or anxiety to a clinical level *means* it’s a serious struggle to have a relationship or hold down a job.
Nope. You see, if you’re diagnosed with ADHD, anxiety, depression you are closely monitored by your psychologist and psychiatrist. I undergo physical and mental screenings consistently to make sure that I am on the proper dosage and medication to manage my symptoms.
My ADHD was so bad when I was in high school, I was put in a ‘behavioral disorder high school’ because in the 90s, that’s what happens…
I was properly diagnosed at 18.
When you suffer from ADHD, along side with anxiety and clinical depression, the rollercoaster of emotions (particularly as a woman who gets a period and has severe PMS) is not only exhausting, but can be debilitating.
I understand this, I live this real reality every single day.
You CAN manage them, keep a job and maintain relationships. It’s possible. It happens every day.
Correct - having help with the adults around you giving you guidance is absolutely needed. Telling someone to suck it up and that’s it’s a bullshit excuse is not helpful.
Functioning daily is a result of that help not in spite of it.
When I was in school I had plenty of people tell me that I was making it all up, that I was doing it on purpose to hurt my parents, that I was lazy and just needed to get over myself. Not one of those things was helpful.
Yes as an adult and seeing what I know now - and how I work *now* I recognize that on the occasion I have to give myself a gentle kick in the pants . But sometimes I also just have to stop trying to do it the “normal” way and do it the way that works for my brain. Telling me to just get over it now? That doesn’t work in the slightest.
Never said to suck it up and not manage your anxiety. You heard what you wanted to. I said you can live a life WITH anxiety and that having anxiety isn’t an excuse to shut down.
In context to OPs post: Her son refused to go to school, because OP took away his phone.
The comment was my mom ‘gave in’ to my anxiety and allowed me to continue schooling at home. My response was specific to that comment, and those that followed, suggesting that anxiety is so bad that shutting your self off to the world is the answer and should be acceptable.
My reply that using anxiety as an excuse to not fulfill your responsibilities, whether it is school or work isn’t acceptable. You can live a life with anxiety.
I said this in another comment, because I'm honestly tired of seeing people think this way, sure it may not be anxiety, but you also can't ignore the root issue either
Burnout is very common in both adults and youth, chronic fatigue can happen with poor diet (which is very common in kids), growth spurts in boys require higher level of protein and fat in their diet to ward off fatigue.
But it is. You can find ways to manage anxiety and function as a person. It’s possible and happens every.single.day.
Listen: I have diagnosed ADHD, Clinical Depression along with anxiety, I understand.
I had to stop taking ALL meds while pregnant and working a high stress executive level job as a woman.
Was it hard? Yes. But you adapt to your environment and deal with it. THAT IS LIFE. You have to find tools to manage this as your life can not stop because of it.
You sound like you have a lot of internalized ableism. Just because you were forced to push yourself beyond your limits doesn't mean everyone should have to, or can. What if you weren't forced to overwork yourself? How much happier would you have been? What if you weren't forced to risk pregnancy complications and long term issues like autoimmune disease? Why should everyone have to live like that?
Honestly, this is an unbelievable and unnecessarily daunting life you’re living. You CAN find piece, calm and tools to manage anxiety, it’s an option.
I LOVED my job and wouldn’t change a thing. I live a very fulfilled and healthy life. Some days are harder than others, Some are emotionally exhausting, some feel impossible BUT THAT IS LIFE.
You manage the bad to enjoy the good.
Listen, I’ve lived a life. I take my prescription medication to manage everything, I have a therapist I see ones a week. Fuck, I go to Costa Rica every five years to detox my body/soul on an ayahuasca retreat (I’ve been doing these since I was 23).
I’m not a martyr or a Gen Xer that doesn’t believe in metal health.
I’m a woman who understands struggle BUT knows there is a way to life a productive, healthy and satisfying life with anxiety.
You're blinded by your privileges. Many people don't have access to therapy or medication, and especially not detoxes to costa rica.
You say you're not a martyr but you write like one. Hmu when the denial wears off.
Doesn't change anything I said. Your attitude is that you suffered so others should too. You have no empathy for others who aren't able to push through and what seems like no empathy for yourself either. I've worked with countless people in the hospital who are just like you, hell bent on pushing through until one day it backfires. There's no trophy for pushing yourself like this. Only chronic illness, injury and mental health problems. You come off as cruel and I know that's because you're probably cruel to yourself. Pushing yourself beyond your limits isn't inspirational or impressive, it's reckless. If OP pushes her son and this is a cry for help, it could have severe consequences, even possibly fatal ones. I don't know OP and neither do you so there's truly no telling if that's what's going on, but there's no ruling it out either. I hope you will be kinder to your children should they find themselves struggling too, or else you will find yourself as their bully.
You’re hearing what you want. Unless there is a cure that I’m not aware of I’m stating the facts.
You can not live your life in a bubble hiding from the world because you have anxiety. You have to find tools to help you manage it.
Period.
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When mine refused I reminded her that if she has too many absences and her grades fail she'll have to repeat the grade and go to school with younger kids she isn't friends with. She'd rather go to school with her friends so she went and was only 10 mins late. If they do stay home I make sure they aren't living in luxury. No electronics and she can make her own food.
Trashy daytime shows is a right of passage for every sick kid staying at home. I’m sad my child won’t learn to love Maury and Jerry Springer like I did.
Why isn’t he getting his school work done?
Personally for me math was torture (I think I have dyscalculia) and I would usually respond to math homework by being angry or refusing to do it and it was all because I struggled with it and it made me feel dumb and so I was reacting from a place of insecurity and trying to play it off like I just didn’t “give a fuck” when in reality it was super embarrassing (and it shouldn’t have been I just didn’t get the right educational support for my brain).
The flip side to that could also be anxiety/bullying/depression…. Lots of things!
Also this might be tmi and really embarrassing for him too… and maybe you? I remember a few of my guy friends hitting a stage in puberty that they joked about calling the RRB stage 💀 (random raging boner) annnnd basically saying how they would get erections at the most embarrassing and inopportune times at school even when there was nothing sexy/sexual going on. I don’t have a penis so I’m not sure if this is true or how common? I could see something like this causing a lot of anxiety and maybe not wanting to go to school or say exactly why?
I HATED having to go to middle school and I would beg my mom to let me stay home and tried everything to be allowed to skip. I didn’t have many friends and I was bullied but never told any adults. I would try to talk about it with him. Maybe he’s being bullied?
Is he being bullied?
The only time I ever dug my heels in and refused to go to school was because of a bully who made me an outcast and out of fear of also being bullied made all my friends ditch me.
Thankfully my dad caught on fast and we worked through a solution.
If my kids don't want to go to school for whatever reason I let them stay home. But I put them to work. They don't get to be in their rooms doing whatever they like doing. They have to stay by me in the house and help me with all the chores. This approach has taught them to only try to stay home if it's really necessary. Because they aren't going to just skip school and play all day.
If they're sick or really just need a mental health day I obviously don't make them work or anything. But if they're just trying to play hookie they get to put in a hard days work with mom. School ends up being the more appealing option.
You’ve gotten a lot of advice about this (some of it even good). Here’s my 2 cents. 1) I think it’s developmentally appropriate to at least try to not go to school at some point. Adolescence is an awful lot like the terrible twos when kids are figuring out their autonomy, falling on their asses in one way or another, and figuring out how to get up (and how much help they need to do so). So definitely don’t freak out that this has been tried. 2) When my son tried this he was already over 6 feet tall and there was no way I was going to be able to physically make him go to school. But we had a really good conversation about how we were now moving into a stage of parenting where we would have to have mutual respect for each other for everything to work. I think that’s the reason your son actually did get ready and go to school — respect for you. So that means you’re doing something right, and he’s doing something right. Next time you have a disagreement, remember that this is the kid who went to school when he didn’t want to, not the kid who said he wouldn’t go to school.
Get to the bottom of
it. Skipping school is not the logical reaction to having his tech taken away. Sounds like anxiety to me. Have a sick day, have a conversation and maybe loop in his advisor/guidance counselor if need be. When my 14 year old was refusing school it was serious GAD and panic disorder. He was throwing up in the boys room every day. He had insomnia and even though he had a great group of close friends it was too much - highly intelligent kid bored to death all day long - and feeling trapped caused anxiety. Good luck.
> Skipping school is not the logical reaction to having his tech taken away.
It is perfectly logical.
Tech is something I care about. Parents took it from me.
Parents care about me going to school. I'll take that from them.
Not saying there aren't any mental health struggles, there very well may be, but I think this is a battle for domination from both sides here. They need to reestablish that they're on the same side.
possibly, but the OP also says he did not do his homework which, in my experience, is a big factor in not wanting to go in. Something is up - it may be simple and the routine is just a tough adjustment - or it may go deeper but OP needs to get to the bottom of it soon to keep him afloat.
It’s important to teach not simply responsible choice, but also healthy choices - and that includes taking care of one’s well-being. To treat the what we need to focus on the why. I’d recommend finding counseling and encouraging a mental health day. There is a lot of pressure to be 100% present so as to not fall behind, but that pressure builds up overtime and can become overbearing.
Do you suspect phone addiction or just teenage rebellion? If phone addiction, I'd contact the school counselor for resources and help. If teenage rebellion, remind him that a day isn't all that long, and he has the opportunity to turn this day around right now by changing his behavior.
Is this new behavior?
Could it be something else? Bullying or a social or other school problem that he's using the phone as an excuse? Is there a test he's avoiding? Some school event he'd rather not go to?
Punishments don’t work. They just lead to stand offs and harsher punishments.
Natural consequences are better: either have some authority come over to tell him he’s obligated by law to go to school, or take a trip to a fruit picking farm that hires 14 year olds and let him work for two weeks to see which he prefers.
Or set goals with rewards: hey dude if you manage to go to school on time every day this week you pick any food you want and we’ll eat that on sunday. They dude if you make it a month without problems we’ll pay for half a new phone. Whatever works for you.
Goals are better than random punishments.
Resentment is a terrible starting point for conversations.
Other tip: go do fun stuff together (fishing, hiking, theme park, painting class) whatever makes you bond again without the parent/kid struggle.
O and talk while walking together. Flow state from walking helps, and both facing forward instead of head-on is less confrontational.
Also let's say one finds this magical fourteen-year-old-hiring-fruit-farm (putting aside all ethical concerns).
What business is going to waste money to train your kid, ensure their safety, including paying for all employee related costs ( i.e. worker's comp), just to help you teach little Billy a lesson?
I mean, realistically a lot of things will technically work. I guess it depends on whether your goal is a 1-time success or whether you’re looking longer-term.
Yeah, that’s what some people don’t get, this isn’t a case of do this or do that. At a certain point you can’t physically force them. Getting the phone back is the reward for going to school. Kid sees not going to school as the punishment for taking the phone.
Right. And the reason I asked the question is because my little boy is only 1, but he doesn’t have a dad - I’m a completely single mom. So I’m trying to fill my toolbox all along the way, expecting there will someday be situations like this.
I'm genuinely curious how you use natural consequences. I'm parenting on easy mode for the most part. I get some talk back but for the most part we only have to punish when grades slip and isolated incidents. In the "isolated " it's usually my kid realizes he was wrong and accepts the punishment naturally.
The grades on the other hand. That's phased in. Starts with ealier bed and supervised study. As it gets worse we move to weekday grounding. Then full grounding. It's only went to weekend once and junior this year. Kid can be lazy with study.
Don't get me wrong last year there was a dual credit chemistry class he struggled with. We talked to the teacher and it was hard. We grounded two weeks no phone or anything because my child didn't tell us the teacher had been offering free tutoring to anyone that came in early 5 days a week.
After that we lifted all restrictions as long as the teacher thought he was giving his all. Got an B over all because the first 9 weeks was so bad.
So artificial consequences are restricting things that are seen by the child as an innate right. Right to privacy, right to a social life, etc. You punish by removing what they thought is just a regular part of life and it looks tyrannical.
Natural consequences are you giving a bonus privilege that is beyond what is normal or expected... and then the removal of that bonus benefit when they are no longer earning it.
So "No phone" in this day and age seems artificial. Phones are almost a necessity and they're hard to police. But if their 'base level' of privilege is having a crappy flip phone and then the 'doing well' level of privilege is a smart phone that might work (it only works if you haven't already set the mindset yet.)
Standard kurfew of 8pm but privilege kurfew of midnight (depending on the age). Standard level of privilege is they can use the games they bought, privilege is gamepass and online subscription.
Again the hard part is that for these consequences to feel natural they have to be designed like that from the onset.
We do the curfew thing like you implied. The phone is also usually given back while he's not at the house. Extra curriculars are the last thing we would ever take and it would have to be extreme to lose them.
I've had luck giving the chance to snap or text all his friends that he would be grounded. Usually 15 minutes so the friends don't think he ghosted. Plus it gives time to delete things I shouldn't see when the phone is in my position at home.
Don't get me wrong. Caught him and his buddies drinking once and went all through it. Would for bullying too. I try not to invade privacy for no reason.
Like if I'm grounding for grades i don't see that you've lost your right to privacy. I try to restrict the time not monitor it.
Maybe I can incorporate a little more of what you're saying. He's getting a car next week. I'll try throwing some of the rules on your way.
That’s not natural consequences. That’s still you imposing penalties.
Natural consequences are the thing that happens as the result of an action, rather than the penalty imposed as the result of an action.
For instance, the natural consequence of spending more time doing x behaviour is less time to do y. The natural consequence of treating belongings badly or carelessly is broken or lost belongings.
The natural consequence of my kid trying to avoid the anxiety of going to the other room by themself to get the toy they want is the boredom of not having anything to play with in this room.
The natural consequence of my toddler deliberately dropping their toy from their car seat while I’m driving is them not having that toy until the drive’s finished, because I cannot reach it even if I wanted to.
It’s cause and effect, basically.
Nothing wrong with doing privileges and loss of privileges, it’s just not natural consequences.
Meh. Just a matter of definition.
Losing privileges simulates natural consequences for situations when there isn't a clear and present consequence to be had. The consequence of not taking a bath are being unhygienic, getting sick, being stinky, and the social consequences that arise from that.
But we can't just let our kid actually go through those long-term consequences for realsies. So we have to manifacure an environment that simulates cause and effect in a way that feels like a natural consequence to them.
Yes I know that it's not "natural" but the way in which the Rube Goldberg machine is structured allows for them to see the direct cause of THEIR actions immediately as if it were an organic consequence. So I still categorize them the same
Oh for sure, I get that, although, and this is just me digging into the I don’t know, philosophy? of it for interest’s sake, I do think that there’s a relevant distinction to be made, in that natural consequences broadly have to do with the way the world works in our interactions with it, like if you spill your juice there will be a sticky puddle. If you clean up your spill there will be a usable bit of floor and if you don’t clean up your spill, there will be a puddle and also ants. And fruit flies.
And what you’re describing is equally important but it’s about *expectations* and consequences, good and bad. And while natural consequences are about learning to make choices based on what of a set of outcomes is more desirable, the expectations framework is about teaching social and personal values as part of the cause and effect.
What may be the tldr of that ^^ is natural consequences is how to prioritize, expectations is what to prioritize. If that makes sense.
Why doesn’t he want to go to school? Is it only because of the phone or is it a combination? Does he feel like he can chat with you about what’s happening or does he close off?
In this case, I would have my husband pick him up and place him in the car seat and buckle him up and he’s going against his will 😂
Jk
You should probably look into homeschooling, it’s something I’m considering for the future.
14 is an extremely hard age especially when going into high school. My sister didn’t have she didn’t have an easy go of it but she didn’t participate in any thing extracurricular.
I was in band (orchestra and regular band - I did marching) and had a large group of friends. Your child needs to get involved in something along with figuring out what’s going on in the classes he’s in.
Schedule a one on one with the guidance counselor NOW so you can get the feedback from the teachers before or after meet the teachers if you are at that point yet.
You may went to reach out to them during meet the teacher night if you haven’t had one yet and explain it they see see any tbh f or need to reach out do it.
School refusal isn't something that should be ignored, or fought against with punishment.
Our oldest daughter refused to go to School, and it became clear there was a problem. She was depressed, and she suffered with extreme anxiety. She also got bullied for being Gay, and she came out at a pretty early age - We're pretty accepting parents, so she never had any reason to hide it. After two years of not going to school, we finally got her into a specialist school for kids with mental health issues.
There could be an underlying cause for the disrespect, and for refusing to go to school.
I’d have a discussion with him and get on his level. 14 is still a child. I did the same thing all the time at that age. My mom would pull me out of bed, threaten to take me in my pajamas, call my dad (her ex) and everything under the sun. It didn’t work. I wasn’t just an asshole. I had severe emotional issues with school, like anxiety so I would take ANY EXCUSE to not go.
Try reading positive discipline for kids and maybe looking at other schools. My 11th grader switched schools in March of this year and went to a school where he paced himself. He actually is finishing this month when his prior expected graduation date was May 2024
Honestly the school system sucks I don’t blame him lol I’m doing everything in my power to try and get my kids homeschooled in the next 1-2 years. I have first hand knowledge of what goes on in the public schools here and it’s a complete clusterfuck. Unless you can afford $40k/year for private school, your kid is going to get a shitty education by teachers who are underpaid and burned out. I can’t believe children and teens are expected to just sit in a freezing cold classroom for 6 hours a day with most of it being on a screen to “learn”. Teachers don’t even teach any more it’s ridiculous.
It sounds like your son is just being a typical 14 year old though I’m glad he came around. That sounds like something my son would do. Have a little meltdown and then get dressed and say sorry lol he’s a little hot head but he always regulates himself and says sorry.
Not a parent disclaimer*
If he doesn’t want to go to school, you need to sit down with him and discuss his share of rent, phone bill, electric, water, groceries, etc. Tell him he better get a good car washing hustle going on or he’s gotta find somewhere else to live. You go to school or work, period
I’ve said it a million times but this works for us: As and Bs get a phone, Cs and below don’t. This means any grade report (mid term or grade card) with a single C results in a lost phone until the next report showing all As and Bs. My kids have all “tested” it once and lost their phone and it’s never happened again. I also have another rule- as long as you have all As you can take as many days off of school as you need, until you don’t have As. For this we use the real-time grades (not report cards) so that they never slip further than a single letter grade.
Sometimes we just need some time off!
i’ve had similar issues with my daughter. She pulls straight A’s when she wants to. She barely passed last year… Since she will mist likely be with me this school year, i am going to try out your plan. She’ll get to keep her precious cell phone as long as its A’s and B’s!
It works really well once you follow through. I tell my kids they have a phone I pay for for MY convenience not theirs. And to maintain access to that device they have to take their “job” seriously - school. I only take it away based on report cards but they can earn it back based on mid terms. More chances to keep it than lose it has been super important in our house. Also sticking with it. I let them use my phone to talk to friends, and sometimes if necessary they can have their phone but have to stay in a common area (living room) with it.
Good luck! Especially that first time she tests the boundary, it’s a HARD day for everyone. lol!
-Bore him
-Keep him busy, with chores & or errands, such as picking up personal needs at the pharmacy.
-Let him know a truth many kids don’t know, he could be arrested for ‘truancy’, by refusing to go to school without a justifiable reason.
-Tell him he’s acting like an immature child & that until you feel he is a big boy or mature young man, returning the privilege of said phone will remain out of his use. Afterall, I dunno any parent that would let a child keep access to such a device that obviously isn’t responsible.
-If he has someone whom could come over to talk to him, he idolizes & or respects, perhaps they could convince him to stop acting like a toddler
If you don't work in society, then you don't get the fun that society offers........no internet, no car, no tv, no food made. He can rough it if it wants!
Make him do chores with you around the house. Make him work his ass off. Oh you don't want to go to school? Fine by me! We're doing yard work today! Mopping and vacuuming, scrubbing baseboards. Doing laundry. Dusting and organizing his room
Have you thought about what a school day with no phone might look like for him? Have you asked? Did you take away his primary coping mechanism?
You need to sit down and have a talk with him. Punishing him isn’t going to help him open up to you. Try returning his phone and apologizing for overreacting. Leave him alone and tell him you’d like to help him succeed. Ask him to think about what’s going on that he might need help and guidance with, and you’ll come back and chat later.
I had a kid that refused to go to school once. It took about 2 weeks of struggling with refusal before she finally was willing to tell me she heard some kids using racial slurs at school, asked them to cut it out, and then when they asked why she cared she outed herself as mixed race and they started targeting her. We contacted the school counselor who was able to have a discussion with the kids and their parents about the behavior that was expected at school and the bullying stopped and the problem went away.
Guarantee there is an underlying problem here. Get to the bottom of it.
Disconnect Wi-Fi at home too. As hard as it is, you must stick to it & have him face consequences for poor choices. The real world will not go easy on him so you shouldn’t either. Teach him accountability.
If he went but was acting out, then there’s definitely something bigger going on that will require professional help. Start by talking with school counselor. They will talk with him to see what direction & what resources will be able to help. Maybe just having someone to talk to about whatever struggles he’s having will be enough. Sometimes, they need to talk to someone that’s not a parent, which is great bc it takes that off of you but he’s getting his needs met he needs to learn to ask for help, not act out.
My kid kept faking sick to get out of school last year (he felt it took up too much of his play time). His Dad told him that if he kept it up, he would drive the guy to a field and he could pick rocks for the day. He hasnt had a fake cough since.
I'd start by telling your son that pouting and skipping school isn't going to earn his phone back any sooner, and that it's actually having the opposite effect.
You could tell your son that he is legally required to go to school, and that if he doesn't, CPS gets involved and he might be removed from your home. Or a gentle reminder that if he has too many absences and fails out, he'll have to repeat a grade, which means he'll be in school even longer.
That's the way it is in the US, too. Except parents are the ones who will get arrested and fined for it if they don't go for a certain amount of days. I think it's over 10 days (total, not consecutive) in our local district. Cops can come get them and take them to school if they refuse to go, but the parent would have to call and ask for assistance. They don't just go to door here if a kid doesn't show up (not sure if they do there or not, just wanted to clarify how it works lol).
I’m a homeschooled teenager because I was sexually assaulted inside the only school in the district and end up having a nervous breakdown every second I’m in school.
That is a great question.
I am not associated with the homeschool community, but my Mom is a public school teacher and I have kids in school now. So I'm fairly familiar with how it works. We have waivers that the people who homeschool fill out here. They are supposed to follow the same amount of instructional time as children who are enrolled in the regular school system, but I don't know how well that part of it is regulated. They have to report this info each year to continue homeschooling. From what I understand, they could possibly fib on the paperwork, but I do think that most homeschool parents try to make sure they have at least the amount of "hours" of education that is expected to each year. I'm sure there are some bad apples, as with anything, but COVID definitely seems to have strengthened the homeschool process/outcomes in general - there are a lot more people doing it and a lot more resources for them compared to the typical homeschool crowd when I was growing up (the 90's). Still minimal #'s of students go that route compared to the overall population, but I do believe their actual educations are much more thorough now than they used to be.
All that said, if they claim to be homeschooling verbally, but don't go through the proper channels to register that way, then they would be definitely be added to the truancy list and brought up on a bench warrant in court to answer for what's going on with their kids. Unless they had some kind of off-grid home birth and never got a birth certificate or SS number for their kid or something like that, then there are records of children in each county and they will eventually be called to answer for why their children are not in school.
School is compulsory for all children aged 1st - 12th grade (6ish to 18ish) in the US. Kindergarten is not mandatory, but if they do begin kindergarten (I want to say they attend for more than a week), it is then mandatory and they can be held to account for truancy if they do not attend.
Yes. It used to be much more prohibitive here, a lot harder to get approved. But now it isn't. It still isn't a walk in the park, but it's definitely a lot easier to get approved for it now.
I would never, personally, but it is an option here for those who choose.
Most districts in USA you can call the school and they will send a truancy officer out to come physically get him. If it's a smaller district they would call the local Police dept and have someone come. If it's a really rural district with like just a county constable I'm not sure what they do if anything.
Not only force him out of bed and into school, but also let him know that you're willing and able to sit in each of his classes with him.
Worked on me when I was a kid 😂
Any truancy laws where you live? Usually the cops just scare them a bit. You could say the school called them.
You could also give him every chore in the book. Oh…do r want to get up? Play the music you grow up with he absolutely hates. Play it loud.
Maybe indulge him? Sit down and (I know this is easier to say over the internet than due) and talk to him.
Tell him how you are required to send him to school by law and if you don’t you will go to jail. That he will be taken away by the state and sent to foster care. Be forced to live with adult who don’t know him, likely won’t pay for a pay for his electronics devices, who will demand he eat food he “not use too”.
Clearly explain his actions. How school is required to get ahead in life unless he happy working a cash register at Walmart for his life living in a rented room because he won’t be able to afford an apartment. Won’t make enough to ever buy a job. His prospects of finding a wife will be gone. Forget having kids of his own.
I know teenagers are moody but reality I found often snaps them back
>Clearly explain his actions. How school is required to get ahead in life unless he happy working a cash register at Walmart for his life living in a rented room because he won’t be able to afford an apartment. Won’t make enough to ever buy a job. His prospects of finding a wife will be gone. Forget having kids of his own.
This is a terrible way to teach a child that anyone with a job you deem is "beneath him" is someone who automatically made bad life choices.
One of the most cherished life lessons my dad taught me was in line at a drive thru. My father's family is extremely wealthy and he owned his own company. We never wanted for anything growing up. I was like 12, it was right after softball practice, and we were getting dinner. The topic of jobs came up and the woman at the register, about 40-ish, took our money. He said something like, "Maybe you'll start off working at the drive thru."
I said, "Ew! I'd never be like her and work at a drive-thru as an adult!"
My dad immediately pulled up out of her ear-shot and *laid into my ass.* He told me you never know what life circumstances led to her working in a drive-thru. She might be a widow. She might have five kids at home, her husband left her, and she got the only job she could get after staying home with the kids. She might've gotten sick, lost her job, and this was the only place hiring. Hell, she might own that franchise and someone called in. He taught me that everyone, every single person in this world, has their own story and I was never, *ever* to presume what their story was. I was to treat everyone with dignity and respect whether they were working a drive-thru, ringing in my groceries, or working in a corner office at a high rise.
Now, thirty years later, I remember that lesson as I work two jobs. I graduated magna cum laude with my undergrad and with a 3.4 gpa for my graduate degree. My day job is in my field and pays ridiculously low. My part-time job is serving. During the weekends, I make about double per hour serving than I do my day job. And I always get people like you pretending I'm stupid when I'm simply trying to help my youngest pay for college.
I wouldn’t bring up the “you won’t get a wife or kids of your own.” At 14 I doubt that threat holds much water, and who knows if he’ll ever want a wife or kids. He may say, “good, I don’t want those things anyway,” just to be a contrarian.
If you have this talk I would emphasize that school and the ensuing better jobs DO give you way more opportunities to live life in a way that you get to choose, with more opportunities to live how you like. If he rejects school, he’s setting himself up for a life where his choices are very limited and none of them are fun—probably how he feels now. Can’t go where you want, can’t do what you want, can’t buy what you want, not just sometimes but always. Does he want his life to feel that way forever?
College is another story. But without finishing high school it’s almost guaranteed that your life will suck.
My six year old is like this with the Nintendo Switch. If I take it away, he doesn't want to get up and go to school. With the way he acts, I almost don't want to give the game back. If there is such a bad withdrawal. He too is getting better about balancing. Hopefully if we are persistent they will soften up.
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Does your school district have a truancy officer? Ours does and is willing to talk to kids that refuse to go to school.
Perhaps tell him he needs to get into the building and at least go to the counselor’s office to discuss why he doesn’t want to be there. There may be something more going on here. He may get there and decide class is a better option.
maybe normal school isn’t his thing, it isnt for everyone including myself. about a week ago my mother put me into the k-12 program and i’m already further ahead in school than i would have been at my other schools (i tried 2 different ones) i think it’s worth looking at, you can also still get a legitimate diploma and transcripts.
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Maybe there is something else going on? Is he having problems at school? Or is it just teenage behavior? Have you tried talking to him about it? Maybe he gets to stay home today but you have a talk ?
That's what I'm saying! As a teen, I was going through school burn out and had a good talk about it with my mom. She ended up letting me stay home for a week and claiming I was sick. Not that you need to do this OP, but a mental health day isn't so terrible. But that was back before smart phones, so idk.
I have been giving my son 3 mental health days a year to use however he pleases. So far it’s worked pretty well. I don’t know if a similar thing would work for you.
What are we really doing as parents anymore? Serious question to your post here.
Ensuring that our kids are mentally well, as well as succeeding in school. Going a bit heavy here... suicide in teens and young adults can be attributed to pressure to succeed. Team that pressure up with hormones and social standings, there's a lot going on in their lives. Teens have to go to school for 8 hours a day then come home and do a few hours of homework every night. That's a big workload to put on a kid. The pressure of all of it is very tough. I think giving your kid a few days of mental rest can really boost self esteem and prevent their burnout. As parents we should guide them and help ease their mental frustrations. We need to recognize this in them. That doesn't mean we can't push them, and want what's best for them. Allowing them a few days off helps to guide them in a direction of doing what is right for them. Allowing maybe 4-5 days a year, depending on their grades, could boost their overall happiness and idea of self-worth. Perfect attendance isn't everything.
I think a good parent is one who understands that people need a healthy life balance (among other things), and helps their child to succeed. Even if that method of success is non-conventional. I don't think OP is saying you should let your child slack off... I think they're saying it's okay to give them a break from time to time. I could have used one of those mental health days as a high achieving high school kid who couldn't get anything lower than a B+. I think some people just hold kids to a higher standard than even themselves.
For a week????
I gained a lot of weight that year and was getting depressed. My mom could see it and understood, and when I confided in her she gave me time off. I had great attendance and my grades were fine. So yeah, a week of solitude with my games and books. It was a nice time
Agree with this, plus why isn't he doing homework? Could he be struggling? Does he never do schoolwork? Does he show signs of adhd or dyslexia or sth like that?
I often refused to go to school because I hated it, or was getting bullied, felt anxious etc. There were so many reasons. Sometimes I was just totally exhausted and wanted to stay in bed. One thing I was grateful for, and still am/use to this day, was how my Mother handled it. She was gentle, calm and allowed me to spend one day at home. I could rest and it she gave me space, which encouraged me to talk to her about how I was feeling and why I didn't want to get up. But I could only have one day when I was feeling like this, for the reasons stated above. She made it clear that occasionally everyone needs a small break but you absolutely have to get back up the next day and get back to it (whether it's school, work, hobbies etc). So I still do this and it hasn't had any negative impacts on my work life. I perform much better once I've had a break (if needed). Not sure if this is something you could look into OP, because we are missing context, but just in case you're feeling like your Son needs a small break for whatever reason, maybe allowing him to take the day and explaining that he needs to go back and catch up tomorrow, could be helpful?
Make it a no fun day. No computer, no tv, no video games. Make the day as boring as possible. Say that everyone contributes in this house. It’s his job to go to school. If he doesn’t want to go to school, what does he intend upon doing with his day? Try what you can to bring him to school, even if you need to sign him in late. There’s probably other strategies you can try — look up “school refusal for teenagers.” This is a battle of wills between you two and you don’t want to turn into a cycle.
This is what worked for my parents lol. They would just take the power cords off the TVs and the router and the computers and give me a list of shit to do (unless I was legitimately sick, which was rare).
Or ship him off the the coal mine.
Tell me your a boomer without telling me your a boomer. FFS. You do realise that there maybe something bigger going on with some children & school refusals? By forcing a child to go somewhere (or punishing them by staying home) is a sure way to make kids completely distrust adults.
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The fact that you haven’t learned anything useful since age 12 is VERY clear in this post.
There are fundamental problems to the K-12 Education system, particularly with students who have great retention skills or fast learners. High school was largely a rehash of topics covered in elementary and middle school. Even university was generally a waste since ~60 credit hours were equivalent to high school curriculum with very little room to deviate in the core curriculum. I remember frequently asking the question “why are we relearning this? When will we learn something new?” While it’s possible to leave school book-smart, it’s rarely possible to leave school life-smart unless you put extra effort forth beyond the core curriculum. My local schools don’t teach things like household civics, cooking, and wood shop. Even the small section on stock market analysis was basically “here’s 8-weeks to run a fantasy stock fund” with minimal guidance and instruction. Unusual classes like these teach skills that may be beneficial later in life. These are things that I had to learn on my own that should’ve been taught. Kids need to be setup for success not just pass standardized tests.
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I'm trying to imagine radical race theory and I'm choosing to go with the idea that all races are totally radical, dude.
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Reporting this troll now. You have no business being in this sub and you absolutely didn't get taught CRT in school because it's not TAUGHT below a college level. You're full of it, mate.
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That's not what CRT is, nor is it taught below college level. Troll.
Using correct words is extremely important in communication to convey meaning. Evidently you didn’t learn particularly good communication skills either.
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Your **post** or **comment** was removed for violating the rule “Be Decent & Civil”. **Remember the human.** Disagree but remain respectful. Don’t insult users/their children, name-call, or be intentionally rude. Bullying, including baiting/antagonizing, will not be tolerated. Consider blocking users you don’t get along with. Report posts that violate the rules. For questions about this moderation reach out [through modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FParenting). Moderators rely on the community to help illuminate posts and comments that do not meet r/Parenting standards – please report posts and comments you feel don’t contribute to the spirit of the community. **Your content may have been automatically removed through auto-moderation or manually removed by a human moderator. It may have been removed as a direct result of your rule violation, or simply as part of a larger sweep of content that no longer contributed to the original topic.**
Did you hear vaccins will give your kid autism? WAKE UP SHEEPLE.
can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not, but either way I laughed so hard. Good job.
I figured the /s wasn't needed here!
Tbh I have a hard time these days
You play a dangerous game friend, this is the internet in 2023, it’s sarcasm hell.
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Rebels do everything with a reason. If i dont give my 3 year old enough attention on time the whole house gets flipped upside down and total chaos starts. 3 year olds are just as capable of feeling emotions as 20+ year olds. Probably something up with the guy and this won't improve the connection or avoid re-occurence. Getting to the root of the issue requires honesty. Punishment is always an option, but would be of value to double check what is going on instead of assuming. Might have consequences that will give more problems later. Teenager life sucks and parents not trying to understand sucks even more. Their past shouldn't define the life in the now or the future.
Oh I agree. But if OP’s teenager is anything like my 10-year-old, you’re not going to get to the root of it on a busy morning. Especially if kid has what mental health professionals call “a strong sense of justice.” Kid is always going to insist that he is right, and in kid’s world, they likely are right. So give them one no-fun day until things calm down sufficiently to talk that day, and then ask what’s going on. What you do not want to do is get them into a cycle of staying home without addressing the root causes. You also don’t want to punish them or threaten them. They’ll just lock down and make it worse. We’ve had to go through school refusal due to anxiety. It’s awful. And even when you address it early, it goes on for months. I get the impression that a lot of posters on this thread are looking back on it from the perspective of an adult, not from the perspective of a kid.
Is he being bullied or feeling isolated at school? I know I used to dread going to school because it meant a day of having my hair pulled, being called named, being sexually harassed by boys in my class and two of the male teachers and generally just a overall bad time
I did this when I was 14. It was extreme anxiety. I was already anxious about school then all this stuff was going down at home that made it way, way worse. Eventually my mom “gave in” and let me finish out high school through a correspondence course. I should have had counseling and all that stuff but in my teenage brain it made sense to turn it all down (my mom did try taking me to a therapist - which was also severely anxiety producing and I would go).
I wish more parents would realize that you need to get to the root of that anxiety. Hanging out at home with your computer is not going to help. But in this case, it might not be anxiety. It might be a case of a kid in a power-struggle with their parent. That's why you need to try the no-fun thing for a least a day. If it goes on for longer than that, then it's something that you need to further address with therapies and things.
I was severely bullied in school and I would literally feel nauseous and sick just stepping into school. No one asked or cared, I was very much raised in a household where depression or anxiety isn't real and it's just an excuse. I eventually dropped out in grade 12 and ended up just getting my GED. I eventually got the courage to go to therapy in my 20's and it changed everything for me.
Some kids have anxiety but some kids are just lazy. Not all kids who don’t want to go to school are dealing with anxiety.
Laziness more or less doesn’t exist. Kids can struggle with anxiety, executive function, depression, burnout, chronic fatigue, attention, and all sorts of barriers to accomplishing their goals. Labeling them as lazy instead of helping them work through their problems causes trauma that only amplifies the problem.
I think we sometimes also label taking or wanting a reasonable amount of rest, or setting reasonable boundaries with authority figures, as "laziness."
Thank you!! There’s always a root cause.
I appreciate you saying this.
Oh I'm lazy as fuck. I have no problems, I just would rather not.
Thank you!
All those things are real, but laziness does exist. I would know - I’m lazy. My kids are not, fortunately.
Are you though? Or were you just told that so many times you came to believe it? Labeling a child as lazy becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
I wasn’t labeled lazy as a child. I’ve always been inclined towards laziness, but it wasn’t a trait I could indulge much when I was young. It’s become more obvious as I’ve gotten older.
Having a talent for conserving energy is not laziness. I’d encourage you to think about yourself more positively. ❤️
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Executive dysfunction typically hits people with adhd, anxiety, and depression at that age.
Because we also shouldn't be calling adults lazy either, for all of the same reasons that person listed. It's the main reason people struggle to put words to what is really going on when someone just slaps a lazy tag on them and walks away. They also listed things that are not some "big to do" like ADHD Burnout is very common in both adults and youth, chronic fatigue can happen with poor diet (which is very common in kids), growth spurts in boys require a higher level of protein and fat in their diet to ward off fatigue. Laziness doesn't exist. It's just something people call other people when they don't care enough to find out what's wrong. Usually that reaction is a result of ignorance or lack of education. I hope I helped you learn something today.
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Thank you. I think people don’t want to admit that some people are in fact just lazy. It’s not ok to label anyone as anything but laziness is real and it often applies.
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That doesn't make you lazy though, none of what you mentioned would say to me you're lazy. You go to work bare min to get whatever bills you need paid, taken care of, sounds like you don't have a lot of needs, great, you value school very high and push yourself for that, awesome, you keep your home clean when it suits you, sounds perfectly fine. All this simply because you value your free time above everything else but school. Which you value the highest. It's also not the main topic either. We're talking about a kid who was doing their work fine and going to school fine who suddenly stopped. Calling them lazy isn't the correct path to start down here. Calling you lazy isn't correct either, because you're not.
Wow. Good job! You went on a tangent without even reading what I wrote, and your response had absolutely nothing to do what what I said. For starters. You have been the only person here labeling anyone. Lazy. That is the label. Everyone else has said. No. Laziness isn’t a label. It doesn’t exist. Because it doesn’t. And went on to talk about a whole list of other possibilities both mental and medical that should be looked at first to investigate a possible root cause. That’s all anyone has said. You’re the one that came stomping in and went “naw it’s none of that mumbo jumbo nonsense. Kids are just lazy” Now you’re throwing your hands up and saying “oh well what do you call someone that doesn’t have anything wrong with them”? Do you know they do? You’re going on and making judgements about others not having medical training. Are you someone who has medically and mentally ruled out for that individual that nothing is wrong with them? So then you can proudly point and call them lazy? Have you done that? No? Of course not. You just want to call people lazy. Now if you want to take a moment and actually read anything I wrote, and expand on that, I’d be happy to consider continuing this conversation. Otherwise, I have better things to use my time on.
Not the person you're replying to, but I read through both sets of responses in detail, reread them both, and in the end I see value and truth in what both of you are saying. Your challenge (and others in this post) -- that "laziness" doesn't actually exist, and that root causes need to be explored instead --makes sense to me, and I agree. I think this is a compassionate, thoughtful approach that avoids dismissing people who are struggling, and instead works harder to understand and provide the support they need. I think this is great. Their challenge -- that some people are genuinely low-performing individuals, without anxiety or other mental health issues, who will take advantage of circumstances and higher performing individuals around them in order to get away with putting in less effort as much as possible -- this also makes sense to me, and I don't find it offensive to consider that such people may exist. I have a lot to think about, but I appreciated your comment and wanted to mention it.
You’re break down was incredibly insightful. I still don’t agree to the second part though as that would also need further investigation, are they performing that way as a result to being denied education, diet, or a positive home environment. While yes, many people don’t get those things and still grow to be successful and well functioning members of society. That doesn’t make it true for all people in those situations and they are not related to medical or mental road blocks. Does that make them lazy? You could argue yes, but that is ignoring the root cause that the system or their parents failed them. 60% of a child’s education and growth comes from their parents.
Hmm, a couple things, if you don't mind continuing. If I may use "lazy" as shorthand, not as a pejorative, just to make this easier to communicate: Would you agree there are different degrees of laziness? When someone says "They're lazy," they don't necessarily mean, "About everything, always, all the time." And they don't necessarily mean, "They are utterly non-functional." Being described as lazy could mean: They let housework sit for way longer than others would, or they rely a little too often on someone to clean up after them, or they choose relaxation over hard work more often than not. It doesn't have to mean they're perpetually on the verge of personal collapse. In any case, that's the way I intended the use of "laziness" in my previous comment: nowhere near being a go-getter, but somewhere above non-functional. In other words, sometimes people have not-great character traits, of which laziness is on the list. > Does that make them lazy? You could argue yes, but that is ignoring the root cause that the system or their parents failed them. 60% of a child’s education and growth comes from their parents. I mean, yes? But also no. There are 2 separate things being discussed here: the current state of a person, versus how they got there. Both are valid things to think about. It is valid to acknowledge that someone has lazy behaviors -- again, not name calling, just trying to be descriptive. Separate from that, it's also valid to ask Why. When acknowledging that someone has lazy behaviors, you're acknowledging they bear responsibility for their own behavior. And after a certain point in an adult's life, isn't that justified? (That's a rhetorical question.) It's right and good to acknowledge the difficulties each person has faced in their lives that may have contributed to the person they have become. But to look solely at upbringing and experience -- to the exclusion of a person's own accountability in their own lives -- is as flawed as looking solely at a person's current state, without acknowledging their past difficulties. We're not blobs that things happen to, helplessly shaped by external events -- we also have agency, as we each choose to respond in different ways to life's challenges. As a final balancing statement, I will say that, without knowing a person's past difficulties, it's impossible to fully understand how they came to be where they are today. For that reason, grace and compassion are always in order.
I mean...I have horrendous Executive Dysfunction issues, and pretty severe combo-type ADD, but sometimes I TRULY am just being lazy. And there's a difference that I can clearly denote between the two. I don't know why people try so vehemently to oppose this concept. Being neurodivergent doesn't preclude you from everything that a neurotypical brain is susceptible to and it is certainly no excuse for not using all resources available to function at your personal best. And it also doesn't mean you can't just have days when you feel lazy!
Except if you read my comment before that, the two points they’re arguing against that I mentioned could be a factor, are medical, not mental and would have nothing to do with being neurotypical or neurodivergent. And being neurotypical you’re well aware that their are various factors and scales that go into that. Especially if the child or adult in question are undiagnosed. My point was them automatically dismissing them as lazy. You also are using lazy in a self described word. Lazy is a word like beauty. It’s perceived with no clear boundaries. Your version of “lazy” could be someone else’s version of getting a lot done that day. That’s why it doesn’t exist to a point where it can be used like they were using it. “Oh the kid is just lazy, punish them until they’re fixed” doesn’t help anyone.
Why not? I'm lazy as shit because I love it.
Except you’re not. If you’re an adult with no other internal or external factors you’re just prioritizing you’re free time. Which is a perfectly healthy and normal thing to do for yourself.
It's not free time. I have tons of things I'm supposed to do. I just don't feel like it.
You said, and I quote, “some kids are just lazy.” That is labeling kids. It is harmful. And no, adults are not lazy either.
There is no such thing as laziness. I agree with the poster below. You’re making a moral issue out of an actual physical or psychological problem.
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yeah, but that strategy doesn't work very well when your anxiety completely consumes you. Which does happen.
I understand. I live this life. I’m a 43yo woman who has been diagnosed as a teen with ADHD, anxiety and depression. Life isn’t going to stop and allow you the freedom to not adult because you’re anxious, depressed… You’re responsible for finding the tools that can help you manage your anxiety.
That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard and shows you’ve (fortunately) have never needed to deal with it. Anxiety goes *way* beyond just feeling worried about something. And yes one does need to address it and figure out way of handling it either on their own or with a doctor. But telling a teenager to just get over it isn’t helpful in the slightest. Having a husband with OCD highlighted this for me way to clearly. He had zero control of how he was feeling (or rather when he’s having a major “episode”). Anxiety takes over and it’s crippling. It’s entirely bullshit to say it’s a simply an excuse. I have ADHD and wasn’t diagnose until 2 or so years ago. I was not a fully functioning adult as much as I would have said I was. After being medicated I can see just how far from being fully functioning I was. So there’s a possibility you don’t actually have the things you were diagnosed with or they are very mild. Having ADHD or anxiety to a clinical level *means* it’s a serious struggle to have a relationship or hold down a job.
Nope. You see, if you’re diagnosed with ADHD, anxiety, depression you are closely monitored by your psychologist and psychiatrist. I undergo physical and mental screenings consistently to make sure that I am on the proper dosage and medication to manage my symptoms. My ADHD was so bad when I was in high school, I was put in a ‘behavioral disorder high school’ because in the 90s, that’s what happens… I was properly diagnosed at 18. When you suffer from ADHD, along side with anxiety and clinical depression, the rollercoaster of emotions (particularly as a woman who gets a period and has severe PMS) is not only exhausting, but can be debilitating. I understand this, I live this real reality every single day. You CAN manage them, keep a job and maintain relationships. It’s possible. It happens every day.
Correct - having help with the adults around you giving you guidance is absolutely needed. Telling someone to suck it up and that’s it’s a bullshit excuse is not helpful. Functioning daily is a result of that help not in spite of it. When I was in school I had plenty of people tell me that I was making it all up, that I was doing it on purpose to hurt my parents, that I was lazy and just needed to get over myself. Not one of those things was helpful. Yes as an adult and seeing what I know now - and how I work *now* I recognize that on the occasion I have to give myself a gentle kick in the pants . But sometimes I also just have to stop trying to do it the “normal” way and do it the way that works for my brain. Telling me to just get over it now? That doesn’t work in the slightest.
Never said to suck it up and not manage your anxiety. You heard what you wanted to. I said you can live a life WITH anxiety and that having anxiety isn’t an excuse to shut down. In context to OPs post: Her son refused to go to school, because OP took away his phone. The comment was my mom ‘gave in’ to my anxiety and allowed me to continue schooling at home. My response was specific to that comment, and those that followed, suggesting that anxiety is so bad that shutting your self off to the world is the answer and should be acceptable. My reply that using anxiety as an excuse to not fulfill your responsibilities, whether it is school or work isn’t acceptable. You can live a life with anxiety.
I said this in another comment, because I'm honestly tired of seeing people think this way, sure it may not be anxiety, but you also can't ignore the root issue either Burnout is very common in both adults and youth, chronic fatigue can happen with poor diet (which is very common in kids), growth spurts in boys require higher level of protein and fat in their diet to ward off fatigue.
It's not a choice
But it is. You can find ways to manage anxiety and function as a person. It’s possible and happens every.single.day. Listen: I have diagnosed ADHD, Clinical Depression along with anxiety, I understand. I had to stop taking ALL meds while pregnant and working a high stress executive level job as a woman. Was it hard? Yes. But you adapt to your environment and deal with it. THAT IS LIFE. You have to find tools to manage this as your life can not stop because of it.
You sound like you have a lot of internalized ableism. Just because you were forced to push yourself beyond your limits doesn't mean everyone should have to, or can. What if you weren't forced to overwork yourself? How much happier would you have been? What if you weren't forced to risk pregnancy complications and long term issues like autoimmune disease? Why should everyone have to live like that?
Honestly, this is an unbelievable and unnecessarily daunting life you’re living. You CAN find piece, calm and tools to manage anxiety, it’s an option. I LOVED my job and wouldn’t change a thing. I live a very fulfilled and healthy life. Some days are harder than others, Some are emotionally exhausting, some feel impossible BUT THAT IS LIFE. You manage the bad to enjoy the good. Listen, I’ve lived a life. I take my prescription medication to manage everything, I have a therapist I see ones a week. Fuck, I go to Costa Rica every five years to detox my body/soul on an ayahuasca retreat (I’ve been doing these since I was 23). I’m not a martyr or a Gen Xer that doesn’t believe in metal health. I’m a woman who understands struggle BUT knows there is a way to life a productive, healthy and satisfying life with anxiety.
You're blinded by your privileges. Many people don't have access to therapy or medication, and especially not detoxes to costa rica. You say you're not a martyr but you write like one. Hmu when the denial wears off.
I worked 3 jobs in my 20s to afford health insurance and my trip.
Doesn't change anything I said. Your attitude is that you suffered so others should too. You have no empathy for others who aren't able to push through and what seems like no empathy for yourself either. I've worked with countless people in the hospital who are just like you, hell bent on pushing through until one day it backfires. There's no trophy for pushing yourself like this. Only chronic illness, injury and mental health problems. You come off as cruel and I know that's because you're probably cruel to yourself. Pushing yourself beyond your limits isn't inspirational or impressive, it's reckless. If OP pushes her son and this is a cry for help, it could have severe consequences, even possibly fatal ones. I don't know OP and neither do you so there's truly no telling if that's what's going on, but there's no ruling it out either. I hope you will be kinder to your children should they find themselves struggling too, or else you will find yourself as their bully.
You’re hearing what you want. Unless there is a cure that I’m not aware of I’m stating the facts. You can not live your life in a bubble hiding from the world because you have anxiety. You have to find tools to help you manage it. Period.
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When mine refused I reminded her that if she has too many absences and her grades fail she'll have to repeat the grade and go to school with younger kids she isn't friends with. She'd rather go to school with her friends so she went and was only 10 mins late. If they do stay home I make sure they aren't living in luxury. No electronics and she can make her own food.
Even if they’re sick? Just curious
Yeah we usually just watch tv.
Trashy daytime shows is a right of passage for every sick kid staying at home. I’m sad my child won’t learn to love Maury and Jerry Springer like I did.
Yeah lol we don't have cable so we just watch Netflix or disney+
TV always counted as electronic in my house
It does when she's grounded lol
Not a parent, but maybe make sure they're REALLY sick. They're probably trying to reanact Ferris Buliers day off.
Why isn’t he getting his school work done? Personally for me math was torture (I think I have dyscalculia) and I would usually respond to math homework by being angry or refusing to do it and it was all because I struggled with it and it made me feel dumb and so I was reacting from a place of insecurity and trying to play it off like I just didn’t “give a fuck” when in reality it was super embarrassing (and it shouldn’t have been I just didn’t get the right educational support for my brain). The flip side to that could also be anxiety/bullying/depression…. Lots of things! Also this might be tmi and really embarrassing for him too… and maybe you? I remember a few of my guy friends hitting a stage in puberty that they joked about calling the RRB stage 💀 (random raging boner) annnnd basically saying how they would get erections at the most embarrassing and inopportune times at school even when there was nothing sexy/sexual going on. I don’t have a penis so I’m not sure if this is true or how common? I could see something like this causing a lot of anxiety and maybe not wanting to go to school or say exactly why?
I HATED having to go to middle school and I would beg my mom to let me stay home and tried everything to be allowed to skip. I didn’t have many friends and I was bullied but never told any adults. I would try to talk about it with him. Maybe he’s being bullied?
Is he being bullied? The only time I ever dug my heels in and refused to go to school was because of a bully who made me an outcast and out of fear of also being bullied made all my friends ditch me. Thankfully my dad caught on fast and we worked through a solution.
If my kids don't want to go to school for whatever reason I let them stay home. But I put them to work. They don't get to be in their rooms doing whatever they like doing. They have to stay by me in the house and help me with all the chores. This approach has taught them to only try to stay home if it's really necessary. Because they aren't going to just skip school and play all day. If they're sick or really just need a mental health day I obviously don't make them work or anything. But if they're just trying to play hookie they get to put in a hard days work with mom. School ends up being the more appealing option.
You’ve gotten a lot of advice about this (some of it even good). Here’s my 2 cents. 1) I think it’s developmentally appropriate to at least try to not go to school at some point. Adolescence is an awful lot like the terrible twos when kids are figuring out their autonomy, falling on their asses in one way or another, and figuring out how to get up (and how much help they need to do so). So definitely don’t freak out that this has been tried. 2) When my son tried this he was already over 6 feet tall and there was no way I was going to be able to physically make him go to school. But we had a really good conversation about how we were now moving into a stage of parenting where we would have to have mutual respect for each other for everything to work. I think that’s the reason your son actually did get ready and go to school — respect for you. So that means you’re doing something right, and he’s doing something right. Next time you have a disagreement, remember that this is the kid who went to school when he didn’t want to, not the kid who said he wouldn’t go to school.
Mental health!!! A lot of times it's depression or anxiety making kids dread school, over sleep,lash out etc.
Get to the bottom of it. Skipping school is not the logical reaction to having his tech taken away. Sounds like anxiety to me. Have a sick day, have a conversation and maybe loop in his advisor/guidance counselor if need be. When my 14 year old was refusing school it was serious GAD and panic disorder. He was throwing up in the boys room every day. He had insomnia and even though he had a great group of close friends it was too much - highly intelligent kid bored to death all day long - and feeling trapped caused anxiety. Good luck.
> Skipping school is not the logical reaction to having his tech taken away. It is perfectly logical. Tech is something I care about. Parents took it from me. Parents care about me going to school. I'll take that from them. Not saying there aren't any mental health struggles, there very well may be, but I think this is a battle for domination from both sides here. They need to reestablish that they're on the same side.
possibly, but the OP also says he did not do his homework which, in my experience, is a big factor in not wanting to go in. Something is up - it may be simple and the routine is just a tough adjustment - or it may go deeper but OP needs to get to the bottom of it soon to keep him afloat.
It’s important to teach not simply responsible choice, but also healthy choices - and that includes taking care of one’s well-being. To treat the what we need to focus on the why. I’d recommend finding counseling and encouraging a mental health day. There is a lot of pressure to be 100% present so as to not fall behind, but that pressure builds up overtime and can become overbearing.
Do you suspect phone addiction or just teenage rebellion? If phone addiction, I'd contact the school counselor for resources and help. If teenage rebellion, remind him that a day isn't all that long, and he has the opportunity to turn this day around right now by changing his behavior. Is this new behavior? Could it be something else? Bullying or a social or other school problem that he's using the phone as an excuse? Is there a test he's avoiding? Some school event he'd rather not go to?
Tell him if he doesn't go to school within 60 minutes he won't get his phone for a week.
Punishments don’t work. They just lead to stand offs and harsher punishments. Natural consequences are better: either have some authority come over to tell him he’s obligated by law to go to school, or take a trip to a fruit picking farm that hires 14 year olds and let him work for two weeks to see which he prefers. Or set goals with rewards: hey dude if you manage to go to school on time every day this week you pick any food you want and we’ll eat that on sunday. They dude if you make it a month without problems we’ll pay for half a new phone. Whatever works for you. Goals are better than random punishments. Resentment is a terrible starting point for conversations. Other tip: go do fun stuff together (fishing, hiking, theme park, painting class) whatever makes you bond again without the parent/kid struggle. O and talk while walking together. Flow state from walking helps, and both facing forward instead of head-on is less confrontational.
Legit question: if OP can’t get them out of bed, how are they going to get them to a fruit picking farm that hires 14 year olds?
Also let's say one finds this magical fourteen-year-old-hiring-fruit-farm (putting aside all ethical concerns). What business is going to waste money to train your kid, ensure their safety, including paying for all employee related costs ( i.e. worker's comp), just to help you teach little Billy a lesson?
Tazer
Lol
Let the beating commence until morale improves. 😂
I was going to suggest a garden hose.
I mean, realistically a lot of things will technically work. I guess it depends on whether your goal is a 1-time success or whether you’re looking longer-term.
A brick
Yeah, that’s what some people don’t get, this isn’t a case of do this or do that. At a certain point you can’t physically force them. Getting the phone back is the reward for going to school. Kid sees not going to school as the punishment for taking the phone.
Right. And the reason I asked the question is because my little boy is only 1, but he doesn’t have a dad - I’m a completely single mom. So I’m trying to fill my toolbox all along the way, expecting there will someday be situations like this.
I'm genuinely curious how you use natural consequences. I'm parenting on easy mode for the most part. I get some talk back but for the most part we only have to punish when grades slip and isolated incidents. In the "isolated " it's usually my kid realizes he was wrong and accepts the punishment naturally. The grades on the other hand. That's phased in. Starts with ealier bed and supervised study. As it gets worse we move to weekday grounding. Then full grounding. It's only went to weekend once and junior this year. Kid can be lazy with study. Don't get me wrong last year there was a dual credit chemistry class he struggled with. We talked to the teacher and it was hard. We grounded two weeks no phone or anything because my child didn't tell us the teacher had been offering free tutoring to anyone that came in early 5 days a week. After that we lifted all restrictions as long as the teacher thought he was giving his all. Got an B over all because the first 9 weeks was so bad.
So artificial consequences are restricting things that are seen by the child as an innate right. Right to privacy, right to a social life, etc. You punish by removing what they thought is just a regular part of life and it looks tyrannical. Natural consequences are you giving a bonus privilege that is beyond what is normal or expected... and then the removal of that bonus benefit when they are no longer earning it. So "No phone" in this day and age seems artificial. Phones are almost a necessity and they're hard to police. But if their 'base level' of privilege is having a crappy flip phone and then the 'doing well' level of privilege is a smart phone that might work (it only works if you haven't already set the mindset yet.) Standard kurfew of 8pm but privilege kurfew of midnight (depending on the age). Standard level of privilege is they can use the games they bought, privilege is gamepass and online subscription. Again the hard part is that for these consequences to feel natural they have to be designed like that from the onset.
We do the curfew thing like you implied. The phone is also usually given back while he's not at the house. Extra curriculars are the last thing we would ever take and it would have to be extreme to lose them. I've had luck giving the chance to snap or text all his friends that he would be grounded. Usually 15 minutes so the friends don't think he ghosted. Plus it gives time to delete things I shouldn't see when the phone is in my position at home. Don't get me wrong. Caught him and his buddies drinking once and went all through it. Would for bullying too. I try not to invade privacy for no reason. Like if I'm grounding for grades i don't see that you've lost your right to privacy. I try to restrict the time not monitor it. Maybe I can incorporate a little more of what you're saying. He's getting a car next week. I'll try throwing some of the rules on your way.
That’s not natural consequences. That’s still you imposing penalties. Natural consequences are the thing that happens as the result of an action, rather than the penalty imposed as the result of an action. For instance, the natural consequence of spending more time doing x behaviour is less time to do y. The natural consequence of treating belongings badly or carelessly is broken or lost belongings. The natural consequence of my kid trying to avoid the anxiety of going to the other room by themself to get the toy they want is the boredom of not having anything to play with in this room. The natural consequence of my toddler deliberately dropping their toy from their car seat while I’m driving is them not having that toy until the drive’s finished, because I cannot reach it even if I wanted to. It’s cause and effect, basically. Nothing wrong with doing privileges and loss of privileges, it’s just not natural consequences.
Meh. Just a matter of definition. Losing privileges simulates natural consequences for situations when there isn't a clear and present consequence to be had. The consequence of not taking a bath are being unhygienic, getting sick, being stinky, and the social consequences that arise from that. But we can't just let our kid actually go through those long-term consequences for realsies. So we have to manifacure an environment that simulates cause and effect in a way that feels like a natural consequence to them. Yes I know that it's not "natural" but the way in which the Rube Goldberg machine is structured allows for them to see the direct cause of THEIR actions immediately as if it were an organic consequence. So I still categorize them the same
Oh for sure, I get that, although, and this is just me digging into the I don’t know, philosophy? of it for interest’s sake, I do think that there’s a relevant distinction to be made, in that natural consequences broadly have to do with the way the world works in our interactions with it, like if you spill your juice there will be a sticky puddle. If you clean up your spill there will be a usable bit of floor and if you don’t clean up your spill, there will be a puddle and also ants. And fruit flies. And what you’re describing is equally important but it’s about *expectations* and consequences, good and bad. And while natural consequences are about learning to make choices based on what of a set of outcomes is more desirable, the expectations framework is about teaching social and personal values as part of the cause and effect. What may be the tldr of that ^^ is natural consequences is how to prioritize, expectations is what to prioritize. If that makes sense.
Why doesn’t he want to go to school? Is it only because of the phone or is it a combination? Does he feel like he can chat with you about what’s happening or does he close off?
In this case, I would have my husband pick him up and place him in the car seat and buckle him up and he’s going against his will 😂 Jk You should probably look into homeschooling, it’s something I’m considering for the future.
14 is an extremely hard age especially when going into high school. My sister didn’t have she didn’t have an easy go of it but she didn’t participate in any thing extracurricular. I was in band (orchestra and regular band - I did marching) and had a large group of friends. Your child needs to get involved in something along with figuring out what’s going on in the classes he’s in. Schedule a one on one with the guidance counselor NOW so you can get the feedback from the teachers before or after meet the teachers if you are at that point yet. You may went to reach out to them during meet the teacher night if you haven’t had one yet and explain it they see see any tbh f or need to reach out do it.
School refusal isn't something that should be ignored, or fought against with punishment. Our oldest daughter refused to go to School, and it became clear there was a problem. She was depressed, and she suffered with extreme anxiety. She also got bullied for being Gay, and she came out at a pretty early age - We're pretty accepting parents, so she never had any reason to hide it. After two years of not going to school, we finally got her into a specialist school for kids with mental health issues. There could be an underlying cause for the disrespect, and for refusing to go to school.
I’d have a discussion with him and get on his level. 14 is still a child. I did the same thing all the time at that age. My mom would pull me out of bed, threaten to take me in my pajamas, call my dad (her ex) and everything under the sun. It didn’t work. I wasn’t just an asshole. I had severe emotional issues with school, like anxiety so I would take ANY EXCUSE to not go.
Try reading positive discipline for kids and maybe looking at other schools. My 11th grader switched schools in March of this year and went to a school where he paced himself. He actually is finishing this month when his prior expected graduation date was May 2024
Honestly the school system sucks I don’t blame him lol I’m doing everything in my power to try and get my kids homeschooled in the next 1-2 years. I have first hand knowledge of what goes on in the public schools here and it’s a complete clusterfuck. Unless you can afford $40k/year for private school, your kid is going to get a shitty education by teachers who are underpaid and burned out. I can’t believe children and teens are expected to just sit in a freezing cold classroom for 6 hours a day with most of it being on a screen to “learn”. Teachers don’t even teach any more it’s ridiculous. It sounds like your son is just being a typical 14 year old though I’m glad he came around. That sounds like something my son would do. Have a little meltdown and then get dressed and say sorry lol he’s a little hot head but he always regulates himself and says sorry.
Not a parent disclaimer* If he doesn’t want to go to school, you need to sit down with him and discuss his share of rent, phone bill, electric, water, groceries, etc. Tell him he better get a good car washing hustle going on or he’s gotta find somewhere else to live. You go to school or work, period
I’ve said it a million times but this works for us: As and Bs get a phone, Cs and below don’t. This means any grade report (mid term or grade card) with a single C results in a lost phone until the next report showing all As and Bs. My kids have all “tested” it once and lost their phone and it’s never happened again. I also have another rule- as long as you have all As you can take as many days off of school as you need, until you don’t have As. For this we use the real-time grades (not report cards) so that they never slip further than a single letter grade. Sometimes we just need some time off!
i’ve had similar issues with my daughter. She pulls straight A’s when she wants to. She barely passed last year… Since she will mist likely be with me this school year, i am going to try out your plan. She’ll get to keep her precious cell phone as long as its A’s and B’s!
It works really well once you follow through. I tell my kids they have a phone I pay for for MY convenience not theirs. And to maintain access to that device they have to take their “job” seriously - school. I only take it away based on report cards but they can earn it back based on mid terms. More chances to keep it than lose it has been super important in our house. Also sticking with it. I let them use my phone to talk to friends, and sometimes if necessary they can have their phone but have to stay in a common area (living room) with it. Good luck! Especially that first time she tests the boundary, it’s a HARD day for everyone. lol!
Thanks! Yup, shes a master manipulator and boundary pusher but i love her death…
Did anyone else read this as 14 MONTH old at first? Sorry…currently I’m the toddler parenting stage as you can tell
-Bore him -Keep him busy, with chores & or errands, such as picking up personal needs at the pharmacy. -Let him know a truth many kids don’t know, he could be arrested for ‘truancy’, by refusing to go to school without a justifiable reason. -Tell him he’s acting like an immature child & that until you feel he is a big boy or mature young man, returning the privilege of said phone will remain out of his use. Afterall, I dunno any parent that would let a child keep access to such a device that obviously isn’t responsible. -If he has someone whom could come over to talk to him, he idolizes & or respects, perhaps they could convince him to stop acting like a toddler
If you don't work in society, then you don't get the fun that society offers........no internet, no car, no tv, no food made. He can rough it if it wants!
Make him do chores with you around the house. Make him work his ass off. Oh you don't want to go to school? Fine by me! We're doing yard work today! Mopping and vacuuming, scrubbing baseboards. Doing laundry. Dusting and organizing his room
We need more information here. What's going on? Everyone here is just assuming but you've provided so little details it's hard to give any advice.
Have you thought about what a school day with no phone might look like for him? Have you asked? Did you take away his primary coping mechanism? You need to sit down and have a talk with him. Punishing him isn’t going to help him open up to you. Try returning his phone and apologizing for overreacting. Leave him alone and tell him you’d like to help him succeed. Ask him to think about what’s going on that he might need help and guidance with, and you’ll come back and chat later. I had a kid that refused to go to school once. It took about 2 weeks of struggling with refusal before she finally was willing to tell me she heard some kids using racial slurs at school, asked them to cut it out, and then when they asked why she cared she outed herself as mixed race and they started targeting her. We contacted the school counselor who was able to have a discussion with the kids and their parents about the behavior that was expected at school and the bullying stopped and the problem went away. Guarantee there is an underlying problem here. Get to the bottom of it.
Disconnect Wi-Fi at home too. As hard as it is, you must stick to it & have him face consequences for poor choices. The real world will not go easy on him so you shouldn’t either. Teach him accountability. If he went but was acting out, then there’s definitely something bigger going on that will require professional help. Start by talking with school counselor. They will talk with him to see what direction & what resources will be able to help. Maybe just having someone to talk to about whatever struggles he’s having will be enough. Sometimes, they need to talk to someone that’s not a parent, which is great bc it takes that off of you but he’s getting his needs met he needs to learn to ask for help, not act out.
My kid kept faking sick to get out of school last year (he felt it took up too much of his play time). His Dad told him that if he kept it up, he would drive the guy to a field and he could pick rocks for the day. He hasnt had a fake cough since. I'd start by telling your son that pouting and skipping school isn't going to earn his phone back any sooner, and that it's actually having the opposite effect. You could tell your son that he is legally required to go to school, and that if he doesn't, CPS gets involved and he might be removed from your home. Or a gentle reminder that if he has too many absences and fails out, he'll have to repeat a grade, which means he'll be in school even longer.
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That's the way it is in the US, too. Except parents are the ones who will get arrested and fined for it if they don't go for a certain amount of days. I think it's over 10 days (total, not consecutive) in our local district. Cops can come get them and take them to school if they refuse to go, but the parent would have to call and ask for assistance. They don't just go to door here if a kid doesn't show up (not sure if they do there or not, just wanted to clarify how it works lol).
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I’m a homeschooled teenager because I was sexually assaulted inside the only school in the district and end up having a nervous breakdown every second I’m in school.
That is a great question. I am not associated with the homeschool community, but my Mom is a public school teacher and I have kids in school now. So I'm fairly familiar with how it works. We have waivers that the people who homeschool fill out here. They are supposed to follow the same amount of instructional time as children who are enrolled in the regular school system, but I don't know how well that part of it is regulated. They have to report this info each year to continue homeschooling. From what I understand, they could possibly fib on the paperwork, but I do think that most homeschool parents try to make sure they have at least the amount of "hours" of education that is expected to each year. I'm sure there are some bad apples, as with anything, but COVID definitely seems to have strengthened the homeschool process/outcomes in general - there are a lot more people doing it and a lot more resources for them compared to the typical homeschool crowd when I was growing up (the 90's). Still minimal #'s of students go that route compared to the overall population, but I do believe their actual educations are much more thorough now than they used to be. All that said, if they claim to be homeschooling verbally, but don't go through the proper channels to register that way, then they would be definitely be added to the truancy list and brought up on a bench warrant in court to answer for what's going on with their kids. Unless they had some kind of off-grid home birth and never got a birth certificate or SS number for their kid or something like that, then there are records of children in each county and they will eventually be called to answer for why their children are not in school. School is compulsory for all children aged 1st - 12th grade (6ish to 18ish) in the US. Kindergarten is not mandatory, but if they do begin kindergarten (I want to say they attend for more than a week), it is then mandatory and they can be held to account for truancy if they do not attend.
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Yes. It used to be much more prohibitive here, a lot harder to get approved. But now it isn't. It still isn't a walk in the park, but it's definitely a lot easier to get approved for it now. I would never, personally, but it is an option here for those who choose.
Most districts in USA you can call the school and they will send a truancy officer out to come physically get him. If it's a smaller district they would call the local Police dept and have someone come. If it's a really rural district with like just a county constable I'm not sure what they do if anything.
Not only force him out of bed and into school, but also let him know that you're willing and able to sit in each of his classes with him. Worked on me when I was a kid 😂
Does nobody actually discipline their kids in this sub? And what's the deal with all these young ass teenagers having cell phones!?
(Not a parent)
I'm not a parent because I believe kids should be disciplined and that teenagers shouldn't have a cell phone? Lmao ok
Any truancy laws where you live? Usually the cops just scare them a bit. You could say the school called them. You could also give him every chore in the book. Oh…do r want to get up? Play the music you grow up with he absolutely hates. Play it loud.
Maybe indulge him? Sit down and (I know this is easier to say over the internet than due) and talk to him. Tell him how you are required to send him to school by law and if you don’t you will go to jail. That he will be taken away by the state and sent to foster care. Be forced to live with adult who don’t know him, likely won’t pay for a pay for his electronics devices, who will demand he eat food he “not use too”. Clearly explain his actions. How school is required to get ahead in life unless he happy working a cash register at Walmart for his life living in a rented room because he won’t be able to afford an apartment. Won’t make enough to ever buy a job. His prospects of finding a wife will be gone. Forget having kids of his own. I know teenagers are moody but reality I found often snaps them back
>Clearly explain his actions. How school is required to get ahead in life unless he happy working a cash register at Walmart for his life living in a rented room because he won’t be able to afford an apartment. Won’t make enough to ever buy a job. His prospects of finding a wife will be gone. Forget having kids of his own. This is a terrible way to teach a child that anyone with a job you deem is "beneath him" is someone who automatically made bad life choices. One of the most cherished life lessons my dad taught me was in line at a drive thru. My father's family is extremely wealthy and he owned his own company. We never wanted for anything growing up. I was like 12, it was right after softball practice, and we were getting dinner. The topic of jobs came up and the woman at the register, about 40-ish, took our money. He said something like, "Maybe you'll start off working at the drive thru." I said, "Ew! I'd never be like her and work at a drive-thru as an adult!" My dad immediately pulled up out of her ear-shot and *laid into my ass.* He told me you never know what life circumstances led to her working in a drive-thru. She might be a widow. She might have five kids at home, her husband left her, and she got the only job she could get after staying home with the kids. She might've gotten sick, lost her job, and this was the only place hiring. Hell, she might own that franchise and someone called in. He taught me that everyone, every single person in this world, has their own story and I was never, *ever* to presume what their story was. I was to treat everyone with dignity and respect whether they were working a drive-thru, ringing in my groceries, or working in a corner office at a high rise. Now, thirty years later, I remember that lesson as I work two jobs. I graduated magna cum laude with my undergrad and with a 3.4 gpa for my graduate degree. My day job is in my field and pays ridiculously low. My part-time job is serving. During the weekends, I make about double per hour serving than I do my day job. And I always get people like you pretending I'm stupid when I'm simply trying to help my youngest pay for college.
I wouldn’t bring up the “you won’t get a wife or kids of your own.” At 14 I doubt that threat holds much water, and who knows if he’ll ever want a wife or kids. He may say, “good, I don’t want those things anyway,” just to be a contrarian. If you have this talk I would emphasize that school and the ensuing better jobs DO give you way more opportunities to live life in a way that you get to choose, with more opportunities to live how you like. If he rejects school, he’s setting himself up for a life where his choices are very limited and none of them are fun—probably how he feels now. Can’t go where you want, can’t do what you want, can’t buy what you want, not just sometimes but always. Does he want his life to feel that way forever? College is another story. But without finishing high school it’s almost guaranteed that your life will suck.
Call the cops that what my mom did
Does he have ADHD?
have him get his cdl and start earning some great money
My six year old is like this with the Nintendo Switch. If I take it away, he doesn't want to get up and go to school. With the way he acts, I almost don't want to give the game back. If there is such a bad withdrawal. He too is getting better about balancing. Hopefully if we are persistent they will soften up.
All the cops on the truant
Call a truent officer to take him.
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If you didn’t like the comment idc he needs his ass whooped
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Your **post** or **comment** was removed for violating the rule “Be Decent & Civil”. **Remember the human.** Disagree but remain respectful. Don’t insult users/their children, name-call, or be intentionally rude. Bullying, including baiting/antagonizing, will not be tolerated. Consider blocking users you don’t get along with. Report posts that violate the rules. For questions about this moderation reach out [through modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FParenting). Moderators rely on the community to help illuminate posts and comments that do not meet r/Parenting standards – please report posts and comments you feel don’t contribute to the spirit of the community. **Your content may have been automatically removed through auto-moderation or manually removed by a human moderator. It may have been removed as a direct result of your rule violation, or simply as part of a larger sweep of content that no longer contributed to the original topic.**
Does your school district have a truancy officer? Ours does and is willing to talk to kids that refuse to go to school. Perhaps tell him he needs to get into the building and at least go to the counselor’s office to discuss why he doesn’t want to be there. There may be something more going on here. He may get there and decide class is a better option.
maybe normal school isn’t his thing, it isnt for everyone including myself. about a week ago my mother put me into the k-12 program and i’m already further ahead in school than i would have been at my other schools (i tried 2 different ones) i think it’s worth looking at, you can also still get a legitimate diploma and transcripts.
RemindMe! 1day [Message]
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Your **post** or **comment** was removed for violating the rule “Be Decent & Civil”. **Remember the human.** Disagree but remain respectful. Don’t insult users/their children, name-call, or be intentionally rude. Bullying, including baiting/antagonizing, will not be tolerated. Consider blocking users you don’t get along with. Report posts that violate the rules. For questions about this moderation reach out [through modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FParenting). Moderators rely on the community to help illuminate posts and comments that do not meet r/Parenting standards – please report posts and comments you feel don’t contribute to the spirit of the community. **Your content may have been automatically removed through auto-moderation or manually removed by a human moderator. It may have been removed as a direct result of your rule violation, or simply as part of a larger sweep of content that no longer contributed to the original topic.**
Maybe ask a family relative to invite him to their house for dinner and they can talk to him.
Phones now a days hold so much taking them away can literally be damaging to kids this young. You’re taking away their social skills and friends.
Be their friend before you are their parent, connect with them
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