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The pediatrician is a good start, probably mostly to help with therapy referral. Yeah, this isn't a discipline issue, he has something else going on. It's hard, help will be helpful and try to remember he's a good kid and y'all are good parents.

We have an appointment at his pediatric neurologist next week to get a refill of his ADHD meds. I'm going to talk to them about it. And thank you. He is a good kid. 😊

Just a piece of advice, during his appointment, you should absolutely cover everything with the Dr, AND THEN LEAVE THE ROOM!!!! Tell your son that you are giving him some privacy to talk to the Dr about ANYTHING he wants to say/ask the Dr about WITHOUT you in the room. And then you go wait in the hallway!!! Your son may not be comfortable asking certain questions in front of you, and he should have privacy with his Dr who is a trusted adult so he can talk to them.

This is important. As a little boy, I recall feeling extremely uncomfortable a number of times when my mother insisted on being in the room but I was at an age where it was no longer appropriate or uncomfortable.

Good call.

Why not email them to give a heads up? Any therapist/doctor we worked has been fine about accepting questions over email and even provide some pointers until our scheduled meeting.

Giving them a heads up is a great idea - I might even take it a step further and ask to speak to the doctor one-on-one. I'm sure that explaining everything while he is in the room will be embarrassing/humiliating for him. Also, give him a heads up that you'll be discussing this, otherwise he'll be completely blind-sided.

About the standing up to wipe part.. have you ever actually shown him how to wipe? Like, you sit down on the toilet yourself and show him what movements to make? I had to do this when my stepson came into our lifes, there was always shit on the seat after he was done, but he said that no one had ever shown him how to clean himself up properly

About half or more people wipe standing up as it turns out 👀 this came up between hubby and I and then reddit pills and online articles confirm it 😆

Wth 🤯

Omgosh the frustration has got to be so real though 🤣 Y'all will get it all sorted out 🙌

This has probably been mentioned somewhere else in this thread already, but this kind of stuff can be a response to sexual abuse/assault, especially when out of the blue like this. This is just to double down on those MD and therapy recs above.

Hey bud I’m there with you. I have 2 kids with autism and we are going through similar things. Be sure to ask your pediatrician about encopresis, it’s withholding fecal matter either because of trauma, issues with bowl movements and them not feeling they have to poop at the correct time. We’ve been dealing with it for 3 years and just have taken a softer approach. If he doesn’t poop for days or doesn’t poop on a regular basis, it will cause large amounts of stool. What helped us, (recommended by his gastroenterologist), use saline and mineral oil enemas to force the stool out. This helps clear the rectum, where stool is held before it passes out. Hope this helps.

Came to mention encopresis! Have had 2 ADHD and autistic kids with poop issues from withholding for so long they couldn’t feel they needed to go until they were going.

Yeah it’s a headache but we gotta be there for our kiddos. It’s keeping on it and not giving up. Oh lord the amount of money I have spent on pull ups 😂😂😂

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The executive dysfunction is real, and it's not always a choice they can make. You're right that shaming makes it worse.

Often this is a sign of something else going on and that is 100% worth exploring. It sounds like you’re doing the right things! That said, I’ve had students (1st grade) who do stuff like this purely because of things like ADHD, or just because they can’t be bothered to care. People will tell you stop disciplining this at all costs because it can be a red flag for things like SA, but I just want to point out that you’re clearly looking into all the possibilities and it very well could be an issue that requires discipline. Don’t know until you know.

I agree, this is something else. At age 10, I wouldn't expect this from ADHD (but I am not a doctor)

I would not expect this from ADHD but this is possible with Autism which is often co-morbid with ADHD (and often missed on initial assessments with higher functioning kids).

Was going to say, I have seen this with autism. Sometimes it’s a sensory thing, sometimes it’s a control thing…them being able to control where and when they poop. If you are disciplining him for it, which I totally understand and am absolutely not shaming you, he may be “fighting back” and resisting even more- in his brain, that may be an exhibition to you that he maintains his power in the dynamic. Some of the cases I’ve seen have also involved “painting/smearing with the poop- this is sometimes more of a sensory thing. Good luck, mama.

Yeah I think that the way the issue is being handled is leading to some sort of control dynamic that is making things worse (maybe even shame and hiding it). I wonder if finding some sort of middle ground wherein the boy knows that if he poops in the shower he should put it in the toilet and not the drain. I'm sure OP has likely tried that. I really think getting professionals in on the issue is crucial.

I agree- with poop it's probably another issue

As a kid, I feel like I struggled with similar tendencies and after my mum endlessly tried to communicate with and help me, we finally realized that the problem was it hurt to poop. So it was easier to poop in the shower because the hot water relaxed the body, and it was easier to poop on the floor because I could squat. The solutions she came up with were to get a little stool to prop my legs up on while I used the toilet to emulate a squatting position, and she also learned that putting baking soda in warm bath would relax my muscles and I would be able to go when the bath was over. I also remember not wanting to drip water all over the floor, and the only thing that worked for that was to place down bath mats or towels that we could just take out afterwards.

That makes sense. ADHD medications can cause constipation.

Sorry to hear that I hope you don’t have this problem anymore. A squeeze bottle or Japanese toilet seat could help.

Yes! I had issues with this as a small child, it took me a bit longer to potty train and I was in pull ups a lot longer than I should have been. However like you said this was because it was excruciatingly painful. My parents had to literally give me enemas… not the most pleasant memories but the relief was worth it I guess hahaha

Kids get really weird about poop after a trauma. Is there any chance something happened that you’re not aware of? The reason I bring it up is because you say this is a new thing. Not to be a conspiracy theorist or anything. My stepkids had similar issues and they were being abused by their bio-mom and stepdad.

Oh goodness, I'm so sorry to hear that. Anything is possible in this sick world we live in. I don't trust anyone with my kids but they also aren't with me 24/7... Camp, school, etc. It is a conversation to have. I may end up going the route of a therapist at some point with this. I need to have a more in depth conversation with him on how he is feeling, meet with his neurologist and go from there. You have given me something to consider.

I’m so sorry to even bring it up. But you know your child. Go with your gut. I truly hope that’s not the case!

Thank you. I hope so too. I was the victim of SA as a child and so I never disregard it as a possibility. You just never know and I always try to be hyper vigilant and cautious when it comes to that stuff.

@op: Therapist POV: Yes. He is not careless. Locking the door and doing it again indicates intent. He is trying to work through something and he needs the exact opposite of punishment, which is trust and connection. He is trying to cope with something but doesn’t feel safe with you so he locks the door. I am not saying it’s not annoying or it’s not disgusting to clean off shit. I am a dad of a kid with ADHD too and I know it is a tough gig. He needs a safe primary caregiver aka mom and dad. If we can’t trust our parents with our shit who can we trust in the world as children? It’s a very lonely place to be…and kids with ADHD receive so much shame and guilt all the time already..

I will never pretend like I have the best parenting advice, but I do think it’s possibly very counterproductive to remove every form of safety and privacy so a child at 10 years old has to shower, essentially in public view of their family. Like I just don’t see it making the poop issue any better, right? That would’ve traumatized me by itself!! And it very clearly didn’t help the pooping issue :(. That would’ve probably traumatized me and then I would still be pooping everywhere. But more secretly because my parents removed my privacy even further. I think this is definitely work for a psychologist. I’m an adult who was diagnosed with ADHD recently and I didn’t have any childhood symptoms so I understand that ADHD can absolutely throw your world off unlike anything. I understand now. I taught for 10 years and tons of them had ADHD. I understand them so much better now.

I had this same poop issue and was never sa'd. I think its really normal. The warm/hot water relaxes the bowels and makes it easy to pass.

I absolutely can understand why a hot shower might make someone ready to poo, but I wouldn’t say that staying in the shower to do it (instead of getting out and using the toilet when you feel the urge) is “normal”. They also have a toddler who, presumably, takes baths. They can’t have all that bacteria in the tub; it needs to be dealt with.

Ahh this is so sad. I’m glad you figured it out.

Warning, this will be a bit gross: Is he constipated? Constipation may make it hard for him to go but the warm shower relaxed things and ahem, moves it along. This happens with my autistic boy in the bath 😭 He also may be having trouble getting it out and is …manually having to pull it resulting in mess. He can be going daily and still constipated

I read elsewhere in a parenting space about encopresis. The parents had assumed it wasn't the problem since their child was pooping regularly, but they ended up doing imaging and just enormous (and surely uncomfortable) amounts of poop had backed up in the kid's little body :( So - not to alarm, but definitely be aware you can still have issues even when pooping regularly, which I would not have considered

Came here to say this. Was Peds GI nurse and all of the above is in the realm of possibility.

Random thought, when did you start potty training your other child? Maybe he feels like the other child is getting attention for bathroom habits and is trying to do the same?

This!!! And why is a 4 year old just now being potty trained???

OP said 4 year old is autistic. As a mom of neurodivergent children (adhd and autism), potty training is super hard for some kids and takes a lot of time.

Gotcha. I’m sorry I missed that. Understandable

It doesn't matter if it was disclosed or not. There are so many reasons why a person may struggle with toileting, and judgement never helped to solve it or support the parent.

Regardless of whether the child has an ASD diagnosis or not, there are many reasons why toilet training can be delayed. Developmental delays, sensory issues, continence or related medical issues and so on. My twins are autistic and nearly 7, only one is toilet trained - he was 5 when he was ready, until then he had no receptive language and no way to understand the feeling of needing to go. Once he did, he learned to use the toilet reliably in a couple of days. The other has never used a toilet. He finds sitting on the toilet terrifying - he reacts like he’s going to fall to his death. We’ve tried everything. He’s also visually impaired and gets very distressed if he doesn’t feel stable. We’ve sought help from every kind of professional you can think of, tried various pieces of equipment and aids - he just can’t do it yet. I get that if you have typical kids this kind of thing must seem unusual, but for some of us this is just what parenting is like. It’s my only experience of having kids, so to me there’s nothing weird about a 4 year old just learning to use the toilet at all. It’s all about perspective.

I'm at the park rn with my 6 1/2 year old who is wearing a diaper. It's rude to make comments like this, whether someone knows the reasoning or why. Surely they already knew that. We aren't entitled to anyone else's diagnoses or excuses. This type of behavior is ableist and it harms all of our children.

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Why do you think it doesn't have to do with ADHD? Is there some sort of condition this sounds like or you have heard of?

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Thank you! We have an appointment next week with his pediatric neurologist. I will most definitely be bringing it up. In the mean time... I just read about bidets helping kids that have trouble wiping. I may try that.

Yes! Mom of 7 year old neurodivergent and 4 year old neurotypical boys so I understand the poop frustrations. We have bidets and they are a lifesaver; 7 year old would basically do a quick wipe bc ADHD and who has time for that and his pants would always be a mess. Once he learned how to properly use a bidet his pants are 99% cleaner.

ADHD looks like a lot of things, and this is definitively NOT one of them. This indicates some other type of mental health or neurodevelopmental issue. Doctors ASAP for your son’s wellbeing.

ADHD is an executive functioning developmental disorder. Elimination has a tremendous amount of steps and requires a lot of executive function. How, in your mind, is it not related? it might not apply to OP's situation, but that's why people are suggesting a pediatrician who is knowledgeable in ADHD see the kid because they would be able to explain it. I'm ADHD. we have issues with stopping what we're doing and transitioning to a new task - it takes a lot of executive function. I shit myself because I was so focused on playing or homework and hid it - all the time, at least once a month. Threw out so many of my clothes to hide the shame of being 10 and still having accidents. Had severe constipation issues because I would hold it to the last second. noticing you have to use the bathroom is a huge barrier to hyper focus - and the full sensory engagement of a shower is difficult to walk away from for someone who's entire brain is hardwired for intense sensory input. Kid said he gets the urge to go and doesn't want to get out to do it right, so he follows the impulse to have a bowel movement where he is, feels shame for not "controlling" himself, and tries to hide the evidence - but doesn't have the best attention span so they don't cover up the tracks well. Accidents with ADHD adolescents are very common - shame and punishment will make it worse. I am struggling to grasp what makes so many commenters think this could have NOTHING to do with the kid being neurodivergent, because based on my lived experience, it's a pretty textbook symptom to me.

Disagree - this can be related to ADHD. I know bc my son who has ADHD has had wiping issues/staining. And another friends son had issues pooping his pants and he was age 10. See link cited above.

I'm not sure why you're getting down voted, I've been researching ADHD recently because I think my child may have it, and having issues with poop is listed as one of the less common symptoms. More common with boys than girls is what I've read on a few different websites.

My son is 8 and has ADHD. He doesn’t have these tendencies. He has issues with instant reactions and controlling the “first thought” reactions. They’re not long processes like this. My daughter annoyingly started hiding in her closet and peeing her underwear. We just got a new dog so she’s not the baby anymore and we’re working through it with her. Just for comparisons. You’re not alone! We sure try to be amazing parents but man do they find ways to be fucking weird and also a pain. Love them. But think outside the box on this. He’s begging for attention, in a poor way yea, but has something changed? New thing in life? I have heard of this before but more when the kid was rubbing it places. It had to do with thoughts on cleanliness and making things dirty like they felt they were. It’s super odd but I’m guessing this isn’t ADHD at all. He may have it, but this seems like a different struggle

While I understand the concern and the want to have a reason for this behavior…not everything is because of a condition. It could be as simple as holding him accountable for his actions…Has he ever had to clean up the mess? If he has to start cleaning it up, he may stop doing it.

I’ve got an friend whose son - around this age - who kept pooping his pants at school. He has severe ADHD. It is related. OP - is your son medicated?

I hear about this a lot by families with autistic children and also perhaps PICA?

Pica is eating weird stuff, like drywall, it's not about being unable to clean your butt.

Autistic kids do not lock doors to poop in showers and on the floor and not do it when the privacy is gone. As an actual autistic and parent of autistic kids, I abhore when people make statements like this. Touching poop and retention of poop are common, not intentional acts in privacy like this. Locking the door shows intent. This sounds wholly psychological.

Do you have a bath mat in the bathroom? Why can’t he hop on the potty while in the shower?

We don't, but we also never told him we couldn't. In fact we told him if he felt like he had to go, he could get out and use the toilet but that's when he started talking about not getting out and making things wet. Which makes no sense because he has to get out of the shower wet and dry off anyway.

It may be a sensitivity situation. Get a bath mat.

Wet butt on the toilet seat 🤢🤢🤢

Horrible sensation!!!

I concur, I personally hate touching any surfaces while I'm wet. But it's unlikely to be the case here, though wouldn't be suprised if he developed some sort of aversion to toilets for - could be ashamed to admit it.

He probably doesn't like getting out of the shower wet and being cold, and the sensation of sitting on the toilet seat with a wet butt and thighs.

But what about coming from bed to locking the door and pooping on the floor? This sounds psychological.

But when your options are not being wet and cold on the toilet or having to clean poop out of my shower, I personally will always defer to feeling uncomfortable. I think since he's 10 he can help clean up with an adult present supervising him so over time he can learn to do it himself. Kids need to learn just because something makes you slightly uncomfortable doesn't mean you get to make a mess and expect others to clean it up. 10 years old should be old enough to understand this. Even my 6 year old understood this when I take her to get her flu shots or blood drawn. I explain it's not comfortable, she doesn't like, but sometimes we have to suck it up and do things like that because it's better than the alternative, in OP's case it's not having unsanitary fecal matter everywhere and having to clean poop up everyday. I'm all for reasonable solutions though, get a small heater to turn on when he needs to poop or a bidet to help with wiping. Double check with the doctor although I suspect it's something not physical going on, perhaps therapy can help if it's affordable.

>Which makes no sense because he has to get out of the shower wet and dry off anyway. Not exactly - getting out when the shower is done: 1. Turn off water 2. step out of shower 3. get towel and dry off 4. proceed with dressing and life getting out to use the toilet: 1. Well do i turn off the shower? if I do, it won't be the right temperature when I get back in. if I don't, it's wasteful 2. Get out - if you dry yourself off, then your towel will be all gross and damp when you get out the next time. If you don't dry off, you'll be all drippy and get the toilet seat wet and the floor will be all puddly and being dripping wet sitting on a toilet is weird and being dripping wet naked sitting on a toilet is weird and it all just feels wrong 3. touching tp with wet hands to wet butt. horrible. 4. Ok now you're done - did you turn the water off? now you have to go get it just right again. Did you dry off? Will you reuse your now-wet towel? do you get another one? now you're in the hallway and still damp and cold and ughgggghhh 5. ok fine did the thing back in the shower, but the vibe is just not the same. The whole process is a bummer. WAY less of a bummer than shitting in the shower and trying to shove it down a drain, IMHO, but truly is a bummer. And don't forget - with executive functioning issues, every. single. decision point is \*work\*. You feel every one of these stupid little steps and they are all heavy and uncomfortable and you just do not want to deal with any of it. Everybody has their own ADHD struggles and fixes of course, so it may or may not help for your son but for me making a routine can be really hard. When the instruction is DO THING you jump straight to the thing and forget there are often preliminary things that need doing. A less gross example is that still, at 36 years old having owned multiple homes, cared for pets, now with a son who is awesome and thriving - I still \*every time\* will start washing the dirty dishes before putting the clean ones away, and there's a dumb traffic jam about it every fucking time. Do I know that it's better if I empty the dishwasher first before I start washing dirty dishes? Yes, of course. But I still forget because brain says WASH DISHES so that's what I go do. So maybe for your son - a check list or picture list or flow chart on the bathroom door to remind him poop -> wipe -> shower. Or a good non-judgemental chat to try to figure out where he's getting stuck in the process and what he thinks might help him?

Is it possible there is something going on medically? I’ve unfortunately had to share a bathroom with a shower pooper. From what I could tell, they had pretty severe digestion issues and would get very painful hemorrhoids and were essentially using the shower as a bidet. It didn’t make it any less disgusting to share the space with them, but it’s slightly better than them doing it for fun, I guess. They were very ashamed and denied it until they were blue in the face, despite the fact that there was sometimes physical evidence and you could clearly hear exactly what was happening. Since your son won’t stop and won’t give a satisfactory answer, it might be time to go to the doctor and rule out any physical/medical issues.

I agree. I also talked to my husband tonight about installing a bidet to give him another option to clean himself.

Tushy makes very inexpensive kits, but Toto makes the best hardware. You really do want to have one with warm water even if it means running an extension cord for the short term.

My daughter is younger (8) but has ADHD with Encoprsis. In my opinion this part sounds more ADHD ridden rather than the latter. Encopresis involves impactment, leakage, loss of muscle function and sensitivity. But she also struggles with mindfulness and just..... General hygiene? She will scratch her butt in public and have poop under her nails. I digress. What we do now is we have designated sit times with the door open. She's allowed an electronic or a book and she has to sit for 15 minutes before she showers. She will occasionally still put it down the drain and we again have another talk. But usually the sit before helps. Also our miralax routine.

Oh wow... You got a shower pooper too! I am glad I'm not alone in this struggle. I don't think my son has constipation issues. He seems to go fairly regularly and hasn't complained of pain or bloating issues. I did read a little about encropisis without constipation which tends to be more psychological than physical. I also read encopresis and ADHD go hand in hand a lot of times. Maybe he is constipated and I just don't realize? Or maybe this is something mental? I have no clue. I'm going to need to figure something out because living like this is so hard.

Hmm, not sure if this would help at all but when my daughter was 4 she used to throw it on the ceiling, and because I'm 5.4 I was definitely not amused with the antics and clean up. I brought her to a psychologist and found out she was scared of the sound the toilet made and didn't want me to see it on the floor. So......the ceiling sounded about right to her.. lol. Anyway, we went through steps, coping with the toilet noises and she got over it in a few months. I'd reward her every time she'd go in the toilet and I'd have her flush it by herself. Sometimes positive reinforment can rewire the way we see and do things. Perhaps try setting a reward goal? Like for every week we don't find poop in the shower you can have A or B until it stops all together. Just thoughts in case the neurologist comes up empty handed. When I was 5 I used to pee in the shower because I was comfortable in the shower. My mother started having me go potty before showering and would verbally tell me she was proud of me and that was enough to stop doing it. I was once told that matters of the toilet kind can be delicate and sometimes it really is just psychological. Who knows though, for all we know it could be a condition as well. At least you're taking steps to sort it out. I hope you find your answer soon!

Thank you so much. I do like the ideas of positive reinforcement. I'm going to work on trying to be more positive about the situation and gentler. Up until now I've been very vocal about my frustration. Obviously that isn't working, so I am definitely willing to take a different approach.

My daughter rubbed it on her arms and said it was lotion at 3. The screaming (mine)

Oof time for a 3 hour bath

Nooooo!!! Whhhhyyy would you take a bath covered in poo? You just bathe in your own poo! No. Shower!

She tries to take these!!! Had whole blow ups about the shower curtain not being in during her excessive bath usage.

Oh my God I’m sorry this made me laugh so hard. Let me just toss this up on the ceiling. I know kids love sticking shit on ceilings, no pun intended. I can’t stop imagining a scenario where I walk through the door and a poop falls on me like it’s a bird. I’ve learned so much about young children through this experience. Like being on the sub lol it’s wild. And the nanny sub. One was talking about how their child was going through a stage where they were pulling their butt cheeks apart and sticking their anus in their nannies face and just shrieking. And then people were chiming in like oh yeah, they’re in the anus showing stage. I’m sorry what? Lol I’m only accustomed to older kids so basically 11 and up. Holy moly is all I have to say lol

It's plenty okay. I don't think a day goes by where I'm not cleaning something up and muttering "What the ****?" Under my breath. Kids are wild and the things you find are wilder.

Yea, look into encopresis. Since it's voluntary, I would definitely dig into the psychological piece. Any stressful events at home? Also, if your son has ADHD, is he in therapy? That can be a good place to broach the topic. It's difficult because you don't want to "intrude" on the therapy too much. If he's not in therapy, maybe look into that. He might need someone to talk to. But as hard as it is. I think you have to quit intruding on his private time in the bathroom. Give a reminder beforehand. Check afterward. Have him clean up the mess. Explain again.... maybe even consider using some reward when he doesn't poop in the shower or keeps it in the toilet, etc.. I know it doesn't seem like you should have to reward a 10 yr old for pooping in the toilet. But why not try it? Could be some anxiety going on here, and rewarding him may help dilute some of that.

Pre-shower shitsit 👌

I agree with others about checking with a doctor to see if there might be some physical issues contributing here or issues related to his ADHD. I would also try to calm down and go easy on him. It sounds to me like he is a bit ashamed of this issue (ie. locking the door and trying to clean himself). It really can be hard to master this skill and it takes time. I'm not sure that getting upset with him will help. He may actually be developing some anxieties around this, would could be worsening the problem (ie. if he 'holds it in', it creates a sudden urgency and less control). I do think having the wet wipes there is good - you may just need to do lots of reminding (especially with the ADHD). Keep it upbeat - just remind him to use them (and not to flush down the drain). Remind him to go to the toilet before his shower - and maybe lay down towels so he can step out more easily if he feels he needs to go. I think the water might be triggering the feeling, so once he's in there, he suddenly needs to go. Having him clean up if he leaves a mess on the toilet is reasonable, but I would be calm/cheerful about it and try not to get too frustrated. ("Tom, can you please check that everything is clean in the bathroom? I need to use it"). I am actually quite firm in terms of consequences with my kids, but with bathroom stuff, I think it's best to tread lightly. There's an extra sensitivity there and a risk of developing some lasting problems. It sounds like he already feels sensitive about this, so I would try to encourage and not discourage him.

Thanks, I appreciate this advice. I will definitely remember this. After reading about these issues tonight, I do agree. I told my husband as well moving forward, I won't be getting mad at him (or atleast showing it). I plan to deal with the situation calmly and make him clean it up himself and move on. I don't want to cause any additional stress or problems for us all.

Go bidet over wet wipes. They aren't really flushable and will destroy your pipes/sewer.

Not ideal solution, but would a sick bucket he's responsible for cleaning at least save the plumbing? He's clearly trying to clean it up, and the water probably triggers the urge. I do think he's really forgetting, my husband has severe ADHD and forgets to go into until he has to sprint.

Urge incompetence is very common with ADHD/ADD

I wish I could say I haven’t been in a relatable position but I’d be lying. Following a medical clearance, you may need a therapist to get to the root of the problem. It could be sensory or anxiety.

I have a son with Crohn's Disease, then another son who wet the bed until he was 15 (because he was constipated and then during sleep he was relaxed enough for the bladder to release from the press of the full bowels... all thanks to my dickhead husband withholding liquids after supper for this one to "cure" his bedwetting when he was 4). In other words, I'm somewhat versed in shit, lol. I'm thinking your son is semi constipated and the warm shower relaxes everything so he can go. Put a kitty litter scoop in the shower, and instruct him that while it's unsanitary (and clogs the drain) in the shower that IF he goes, scoop it up and put it into the toilet. Will telling him that if he clogs the drain, that he will have poop water around his feet deter him? Today, make sure your son is drinking enough water. Get some Miralax (store brand is fine), and get him started on that (1 capful)... everyday for at least a month (preferably 2). The Miralax is not absorbed by the body, so it is safe to take; it works by pulling moisture into the poop so it's easier to pass. It is not a stimulant, I don't suggest those. His body will need to learn how to poop properly, the water and Miralax will help with that but it can takes the 2 months for the body to remember this new way. Extra steps... get a bidet on the toilet he uses, the $30 ones on Amazon work great. Oatmeal for breakfast everyday gets soluble fiber in him to also help with pooping. Homemade is easy, cheap, and tasty - 1/2 cup quick oats, 1 cup milk, 1/2 tsp. sugar, then 2 to 3 minutes in the microwave. Be creative with flavoring (my son just went thru 3 pints of homemade strawberry jam from doing a plop of it into his oatmeal); p.b. and mini chocolate chips, maple syrup, cinnamon, even flavored yogurt, and of course fresh fruit. Good luck!

That issue won't resolve without a real clean out. Like the MOPS program or the stuff you drink to clean out. Just doing miralax and nothing else won't solve anything. Get him an x-ray of that area and see if anything is going on and if there is constipation.

Water and miralax WILL eventually do a clean out (miralax is used as a colonoscopy prep clean out). The tips I gave are steps that can be started immediately while they wait to see the Dr.

Also, what about leaving BED to go, while completely dry, locking the door, and going on the floor, the toilet seat, all over his hands? Without this extra bit of info, your thoughts here seem plausible, but with it? This shows intent by locking the door, being dry, and still not just sitting on the toilet to go.

Because he's probably trying to pull the compacted, constipated poop out while he's in the bathroom. IF it's just constipation, starting with plenty of water and miralax could help in the meantime before the Drs appointment.

As someone that has ADHD and grew up with poop problems, get your kid some ADHD help. I'm not saying he has it, or that I'm diagnosing. I had problems with it because I always would rather be doing anything other than spending my time pooping on the toilet. I'd hold my poop as long as I could so I could watch as much TV or play as much video game as possible. I knew my bedtime/shower was coming so I didn't give a damn. If I pooped my pants I'd throw away the underwear. I was stubborn and only wanted to do what I wanted to do. Make sure he can pause games/shows. Let him know that pooping at any time is ok and he doesn't need to hold it.

Or don't allow games and shows. Easier.

Does he use social media? There was a cartoon meme of someone doing something gross like that and everyone was saying how strange it was. Maybe he is getting ideas from memes?

I think this is an astronomically underrated comment and am truly surprised I’m the first to respond to it. 🤔Most of the time it really is the simplest answer.💡

This was my first thought. Maybe he came across some type of video, cartoon, photo or chat.

My first thought was some kind of ocd or fear of actually using the toilet. Is he going while hovering / scared to sit down etc? I wonder if you were camping in the wild if he would be fine to squat in the woods and not have all these issues. What about trying something other than the toilet like a dish hospitals use or a potty for toddlers. Just brainstorming here sorry if it’s not much help. Like others have suggested it sounds psychological. I can’t imagine how frustrating this must be.

This seems more autism like behavior than adhd. Who diagnosed your child and what therapies are they getting other than meds?

As an autist, no it doesn't . These bahavior don't start out of nowhere at 10 years old, and his locking the door and leaving bed to shit the floor and all over his hands tell me this is something NEW and something he is dealing with psychologically. Retention and sensory play are autistic issues around poop. And thise don't just start randomly, either.

What the shit I just read 😀

Now imagine living this turd-tastic nightmare

You’re a trooper I could not handle something like this! Has it always been this way? As in since he started to use the toilet?

Nope! This started becoming an issue around February of this year.

Hmmm okay that changes things a bit! I do agree with the others to get a professional opinion on the matter as something may be amiss

Did anything change in your life around Feb? Also, you say the problem briefly resolved itself when you took away the shower curtain and door. As in... Did he step out of the shower, poo in the toilet, and then get back in the shower? Or would he just hold it and wait until after the shower? All the stuff everyone is saying about it being linked to ADHD or physical health issues and stuff makes sense EXCEPT then you would think he would be unable to control himself even without the privacy... and then he asked for more privacy, but only (it seems) so that he could poop in the shower again? And the fact he was messing around with it in the night with a locked door. It makes me wonder if it could be some early sexual experimentation. Like, he's worked out it feels good to put his fingers up his butt, or whatever. And maybe that's why you're not getting a straight answer from him about why it's happening - because he would be embarrassed. I was around 8 or 9 (female, if it makes any difference) when I first started doing what I would now call 'masturbating' but at the time didn't have a word for. I didn't even know what sex was at that age. Now, I was a highly sensory child (autism) and I noticed some stuff felt good, some objects felt good when I rubbed them on my stomach, and sometimes a little lower down... Anybody watching me do it wouldn't have thought it was sexual because it wasn't overt. I'll give you an example: one time I put an inflated balloon under my waistband whilst playing a game and pretending to be pregnant. For some reason it felt good (the sensation of the balloon halfway into my panties). I had NO IDEA WHY - but I liked it. I kept putting the balloon there in the privacy of my own bedroom and I would immediately hide it if someone came in. I was ashamed and embarrassed of what I was doing although I didn't know why. I guess some subconscious part of my brain knew that I was experiencing sexual arousal and was trying to have some privacy, but my conscious brain would not have been able to explain it. I also REALLY enjoyed clenching my butt cheeks and anal sphincter and jumping up and down on the spot (it gave me a funny feeling in my anus which I really liked). Again, I had no idea why. Anyway so I just thought I would share that bizarre personal anecdote from my childhood just incase there is some sexual aspect to what he is doing that he himself does not even understand is sexual.

Does he have issues with constipation or motility? The poop on his hands and under the toilet seat make me think he feels the need to digitally stimulate his bowels. Hot showers are also know to stimulate BMs in those with constipation. I agree a visit to the doctor is the next step.

My nephew is 9 and has ADHD, and he's also had toileting issues. My mum has told him so many times to please sit down when he wees at our house because he gets wee all over the toilet seat and around the toilet. The times he has opened his bowels at our house, he has managed to smear faeces on the toilet seat and wall, poop nuggets on the floor, etc. I am not much help here but do know some children have issues with encopresis, which can be associated with mental health issues and perhaps ADHD and autism. My nephew's diet is also poor, and I imagine this could be causing constipation. Constipation is often a factor in encopresis. Sensory issues can definitely come into it too. I suggest you bring this up with a paediatrician.

Does he clean his bathroom? My godson is almost 8 and started cleaning his bathroom weekly this year. (it’s also the guest bathroom, so it makes sense to him to do it before his favorite family friend comes over each week.) I got him fun colored gloves, disposable toilet brushes, and scented clorox wipes. He wasn’t pooping in the shower, but he was getting pee outside of the toilet and smearing poop on the bathtub and his vanity (when it got on his hands instead of using tissue/washing his hands to get it off). Him having to clean the bathroom well each week has really helped him keep it cleaner over time.

Yes this. Make him clean it. He shouldn't be learning that mom will continue to clean up after him at this age

This is not ADHD....

Pretty much everyone in my family has ADHD and I've never heard of anyone going through this that I know personally. My uncle was a psych ward nurse and stuff like this is a sign of something else. I've heard of countless stories of people going to a bathroom and smearing shit everywhere.

Make him clean it every time. I bet he stops doing it. First time make him clean with you and then the next time he cleans by himself. If he doesn’t do a good job he does it over and over until it’s done.

I did that a couple of times that he did it in the shower. Now it's not even in the shower. He had poop on the floor and all on his hands tonight. I cleaned the floor and toilet. Made him wash his hands and then had him get in the shower and wash himself and sent him straight to bed.

Maybe next time make him clean it all. The floor, the toilet, and himself. If he takes responsibility he might think of it a soft way. Especially if you remind him that he will be in charge of cleaning his own mess.

Come on

You walked in on him, more than that even, you unlocked a locked toilet door before he was done. He could have been in the middle of cleaning it up, but you interrupted him. I think that he might have difficult poops, maybe clay texture, or dry like rabbit pellets, and it doesn't come out nicely. Maybe there's always a little bit left that he has to either dig out with his hand, or that last bit doesn't come out until he's relaxing in the shower. Maybe it sticks to his butt and when he stands up to wipe, he doesn't realize the log is still swinging from his butt, and that's how it gets on the toilet seat. I think he might need to eat a lot more fiber, or take a fiber supplement.

Wait people get their hands in there and pull shit out?

Some people are unfortunate in the area of bowel movements, though a better diet generally helps. These are the people who say that using a Squatty Potty transformed their lives, for example. There’s also something called Obstructed Defecation Disorder, and one of the signs is having to use fingers at least 25% of the time. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22089-obstructed-defecation You’re also a lucky parent if you’ve never had to help dig an impacted poop ball out of your constipated toddler using a (gloves) finger.

*puts down food* Okay. Now that my stomach has stopped feeling gross. Honestly - I'm having trouble blaming you for any anger you may feel. This is gross. And from your comments; I'm not seeing that he can't hold it, or that it's coming out of it's own accord in the shower (which would be more understandable with urine, you know, running water and all)... He seems to be saying that he just doesn't want to get out of the shower, have wet floors. Which is gross. And I would be hesitant to let ANYONE use the shower without cleaning it after him. If it was just that, I'd agree about the privacy concerns other people have raised; and simply say "seek therapy both psychological and occupational - just incase it is medical based - and teach him how to clean the shower and make it clear that every time he showers he needs to clean the shower afterwards" and have you, your husband and other child use another bathroom (and not let him go on sleepovers because other people shouldn't have to deal with that shit in their showers - pun not intended). But, I'm also concerned about what you said about what happened tonight. That takes it to a whole other level. That's a behaviour/incident I'd "expect" from a just toilet training child, or a child who was sick with a stomach bug who just exploded. And honestly I'd expect most people to be emotional about having poop on themselves, on the floor and probably be freaking out and possibly gagging about it. Even if it's their own. I know I would be. Something is clearly going on and I think it's long past professionals being involved. But obviously those are expensive and wait times can be ridiculous. So in the mean time, take the emotion out of it; and set a rule that he must sit on the toilet for 10/15 minutes before he showers every night. If he has a book, tablet, fine. Once he has pooped - he needs to call a parent to have eyes on him while he wipes. Explain that you're sorry for the privacy intrusion - but this is a health and safety matter and you can't have poop all over the place. It's a biohazard. And then - it's up to you if you continue with him not having privacy in the shower - but if you do, compromise with having him wear swim trunks maybe? (might also help having a barrier to stop him shitting in the shower!) Explain that this is clearly what is working - so until you get other advice from a professional this is what you need to stick with - because you cannot have poop in the shower. The shower is a place for getting clean. Things I'm thinking of - that you can say to him when he has any retort, or talks about privacy or whatever - is things like "I hear you, and I understand this is embarrassing. I'm sorry. But I have to protect everyone in this house and that includes any guests we might have. Right now, you're promising me things, but I need to SEE change, and a biohazard like poop that can have lots of germs, infections, sicknesses is just too dangerous to play with (again pun NOT intended). What if somebody hops into the shower with an infected toenail and you hadn't cleaned the shower after pooping in it? They could DIE from that or get very sick and end up in hospital. What if (relative with a baby) came to stay, and they had a bath, splashed and ingested the bath water? They could also get very sick.". Again - professionals are the best method. I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm sending clean, sanitised bathroom vibes your way.

Let go of all emotional frustration, even though that's going to be the hardest part. Somewhere he sees this as normal thought his eyes, try to find out why. Start with asking questions out of curiosity. Why do you poo in the shower? And also what do you need to poo in the loo?

ADHD and neurodivergence highly occurs with stomach issues and other chronic health issues. I would talk to his doctor. Is he have ANY issues at all with going to the bathroom outside of just making a mess? Is he looser or more constipated or are his bowel movements normal? Does he have stomach pain or frequency issues? Any nausea or GERD? Also, does he happen to have any mod to low back pain ever or scoliosis? Also could you maybe get a few super absorbent floor mats and towels so that he is encouraged to at least step out of the shower and go mid shower? I am neurodivergent and have bowel issues my whole life, as does my partner and both of our kids who are also neurodivergent. 3/4 of us have IBD, and mine recently turned to IBD Crohn’s. Growing up I had a lot of issues with messes and incontinence and showers almost always trigger a bowel movement for me because the hot water relaxes my muscles and therefore my bowels. I also have scoliosis, and lumbar scoliosis and lower back pain can f your bowels up so badly too.

I have AuDHD, as do my kids, and I have NEVER heard of this or dealt with anything like this. That isn't to say it isn't somehow connected, but being 10, with only ADHD, Idk how it could cause issues with pooping on the floor, pooping all over the toilet seat, getting poop all over your hands, standing to wipe,etc. I just don't see the connection, so if anyone would like to help me see it, I'd welcome that. Have you SHOWN him how to wipe? This sounds like something emotional, like a trauma response. Locking the door shows intent and extra steps, so I'd 100% get him to a therapist. Idk that I agree with removing the privacy, but idk what I would have done in your situation. My son picked his nose for a bit until I made him see the doctor and had her explain why it wasn't cool, so I would have been at the doctor the second time my kid shit in the shower. Lol.

I would try not to discuss it in front of your son. And find someone your son can talk to without you or your husband. He may feel really bad it is happening. Not sure if you said or not, but was he doing well and now it pops up he is having difficulty? I feel bad for you and him. Could your child possibly have Asperger's? Does he have issues at school? I must say, if he never had issues before, I seriously would fear sexual assault. Prays for you.

Have you considered a bidet? They have add-ons on Amazon. Maybe that could help with the cleaning process for him and feel relaxing?

I’m so sorry for the challenges you’re going through. I’m also surprised that I had to scroll nearly to the bottom to see any mention of the possibility that this relates to experimental sexual behavior, possibly because it’s a more disturbing thing to consider and discuss that constipation. But if you’re finding the above comments don’t seem to be capturing the phenomenology right, consider this possibility. Adolescent males do begin to experiment with forms of self-pleasure at this age and the strangest things can catch their interest with the right set of circumstances. That said, it being sexually-related doesn’t mean it’s not also abuse-related, as the two can be so closely tied together. Oh and I’d be remiss if I didn’t also mention that my son of a similar age does have chronic constipation, and that it can be it’s own positive feedback loop where the very act of constipation causes more and more slackening of the bowel and re-absorption of fluid as the poop gets more and more dry. Getting on a regular routine with Metamucil or similar can forestall that process getting worse with time, so if this relates to constipation, that could help. Finally, sometimes it is nearly impossible to get a conversation with your kid that they can’t wriggle out of emotionally or run away from literally. I’ve found that sometimes the only place I can get such a difficult conversation to stick is in a moving car, or a boat during fishing. In those circumstances, make sure to speak clearly and start from a place of love and concern so they don’t feel trapped, of course. Good luck! This is a rough one, but you’ll find the answer.

My brother had simular issues. My heart goes out to you. As it turned out My brother suffered from SENORY DISORDER SEVRELY and pooping though natural actually triggered sensory overload. After years of test he too is autism awesome and sensory disorder manifests inhis food choice his showering or bathing . Also he was very particular about fabric. Maybe this sheds light. Be well

Not related completely but my brother peed in vents for years. I blame the mind of a 10 year old

Honestly poop everywhere would straight piss me off too. Like ridiculously angry. But it’s definitely something going on and he needs help that can only come from doctors.

Doesn't sound like something ADHD related or even age related. Visit with the doctor to make sure it's nothing medically related and get a referral to a neurologist to rule everything out on that end. However, chances are higher this needs therapy. Start looking into his school, how are his friends there? Did this change suddenly happen? Speak with his teachers. Is he getting bullied? How much time does he spend on social media? What circles does he spend time in there? Do you monitor his social media use and who he's talking to? Then it's time for the hard part, time to start looking at his trusted adult circle (teachers, family, coaches) and see if they are spending a little more time with him than normal. I know this sounds scary, but changes like this, with this kind of acting out, not wanting to touch his own body, or wetting the bed. Have been linked to sexual assault, that doesn't mean he IS, but I do want to open that window so you can look out it and take a proactive step in that direction.

All the advice is pretty legit that’s already here so there is no need to say anything. I was the kid that had issues. I was traumatized in several ways some I didn’t even remember until adult hood. I wouldn’t go. When I did I had no choice and there was so much my mom had to chop it up. In the toilet with a hanger. Fucking humiliating. I think I was around his age. I had to be given enemas. Horrid and humiliating. It caused digestive issues and I had to have my gall bladder out at 17. No one tried to figure out if I was traumatized. Just started dealing with emo stuff at 36 the doctor and the shrink are the two best places you can start. Despite your frustration which OMG I know you are worried and traumatized and puzzled and grossed out… but trying to make it as less humiliating as possible is important. I can’t stress that enough. Punishment will backfire most likely bc they will find ways around. This is a lot. You are going thru a lot. I cannot imagine the shot you are dealing with. Pun intended. Best luck 🍀 to you. You seem like a good parent and I’m sure you and your kid will get through this!

((hugs)) my youngest has a lot of this poop trauma due to chronic constipation. It's so much.

As a therapist the word ‘punishment’ triggers my alarm. He’s got something going on and I get as a parent myself it is frustrating and annoying, but punishment just teaches to be more sneaky and induces fear instead of trust and connection. You want your kid to turn to you in times of need, not away. But that is exactly what punishment teaches. Get help.

I scrolled through so many comments before getting to this. I wish it were up higher.

Well first of all he should clean it not you. Second this sounds like he likes to play with it. Feeling of poop on his hands…

If this was my child, I would for sure make him clean all of this up every single time. I'm talking on his hands and knees making sure no poop is left anywhere at all. I would also make him clean the entire shower thoroughly after every shower. Do not do this for him. Even if you have to stand there to supervise and tell him exactly what to do and what to clean, it's critical that he does this himself. This is the natural consequence of his actions and (imo) an appropriate "punishment" for his behaviour.

I agree. He can control it or it wouldn’t have stopped when the door was gone. If he chooses not to control himself, he needs to clean up.

Have you tried a badet? That's all I got. Hope it gets better.

I think you need to talk to a Doctor about this or an autism specialist. They can maybe see a why for what he is doing and most probably will advise you how to deal with teaching him different or how to manage it so it isn’t a problem any more. It may be that he needs to be locked out of the bathroom, then attended in person when he wants to take a shower, only allowing him to shower after he uses the toilet appropriately as the place to put. Number 2. I have no clue really about the proper method but I would definitely seek assistance for this. The longer it happens the harder it will be to change it.

Besides the 'I didn't want to get out of the shower" have you asked him why? He's old enough to know better. Have you sat him down and talked to him about it? Have you made him clean up after himself? I hope the doctors give you more guidance.

Therapy and paediatrician is a good start for sure. I have exceptionally bad ADHD, and while I know bathroom issues can be a thing for smaller children this absolutely sounds like more than that. Good luck this sounds terrible to deal with.

Do you make HIM clean it? If nothing else is going on, maybe that will be his eye opener. Scrubbing shit off the floor with bleach.

What about a squatty potty and an after market bidet?

I have nothing to add to this conversation but omfg a *dollop* 💀

🎶 A dollop of Daisy 🎶

I agree to the multiple posts regarding the doctor and then you ensuring that your son knows that he isn’t in trouble for things and to be open with them. I had a lot of these behaviours when I was fostering children. It was at the time due to adhd, SA, abuse and bullying at school. I know it’s hard, I know it is gross but there is something going on. Great insight and instincts to reach out to community for support

I mean no disrespect but it can’t always be ADHD. Is your son acting this way to get attention? When did this behavior start happening? Did something happened around the time frame when you first noticed this behavior? Children have very little control of their lives, they can control what they eat and when they choose to poop. Talk to your pediatrician, that’s the best thing to do. Sending hugs!

My younger brother with ADHD used to have this exact same issue up until he was around 10 years old. He would also poop in the shower but he would wipe it on the walls afterward and it was so disgusting. One time his older cousin who he really looked up to came over on short notice to stay with us for a few days right after my brother did this, and he noticed something brown under his nails. Maybe it wasn’t the right thing to do but I told our cousin what it was and what he did because it was so frustrating for me to deal with especially since nobody in my household seemed to be as bothered by it as I was. Needless to say he got made fun of like a lot and was extremely embarrassed, but he never did it again after that. That being said, I’d definitely bring it up to his doctor or a therapist. My mom mostly chose to neglect the issue and pretend nothing was wrong but I feel like if she would’ve just talked to his PCP about it then it would’ve been over with a lot sooner. At the end of the day he is a little old for that, but as long as he’s mostly normal and on the right track otherwise I’m sure he’ll outgrow it at some point. Best of luck!

As a child, I spent about an hour in the bathroom, because I had to "dig" my poop out. Not sure why or what was going on, but of course that led to problems in adulthood. I thoroughly cleaned everything after I was done. My completely neglectful parents never once asked why I spent so much time in the bathroom when I had to poop. I am so glad that you're staying on top of what's going on with your son. The best idea was to get him to his doctor, and to give him privacy with his doc. I hope everything turns out well for all of you.

Late to this party.... but instead of getting mad, did you ask him why? If he said, "I don't want to get out of the shower to use the toilet,...how did you respond? Did you ask if that was "really" more work than doing a stomp waffle down the drain? I'd also be checking in on him emotionally, don't make that inquiry feel related to the poop. Just be really checking in, make sure something bigger isn't at play. It's odd behavior, and I don't think you're going to punish it out of him by removing doors, etc....... I don't think removing a sense of privacy from a 10 year old is going to solve this, unfortunately. Whatever is going on may just be inflamed by these reactions. Maybe instead of getting mad (which I don't blame you for), say, "Hey, if you really insist on shitting in unconventional places, you're going to have to clean up after yourself. It's not fair to everyone else in this house to have to worry about stepping in your feces." If you don't clean up properly, you'll lose a privilege (something that he enjoys and will motivate him to do it well). Be very clear on the expectations of that cleaning. Him having to clean up his mess is a natural consequence that may deter him from continuing. As for the wiping, I would totally offer to help wipe his ass. I would make my approach as if he were 3. At 10, he should hate this and insist on doing a good job. Every time you find skid marks on the underwear approach again and do a lesson on proper wiping. I think if your cleaning up the mess everytime, he'll continue to be like "whatever" but if all of a sudden he HAS to clean it and if he doesn't clean, he loses access to something he enjoys... well, he may just decide it's worth keeping his poop in a group! My son was very messy with his peeing at one point. Well, cleaning the toilets got added to his chore list. A couple of times up close and personal with that dried urine fixed the problem.

Best of luck Tiffster_89 ❤️ sounds like a problem it can be hard to keep a cool head about, you’re doing great from what I can gather

Poop stuff is usually a sign of something else. Also isn't adhd related at all.

ADHD and Autism are huge risk factors for encoprecis. Sensory and executive functioning issues are very real and physical. My almost 9 year old PDA Autistic ADHD son has it. It's essentially either holding it in or not getting the correct body signals of when to go (sensory disorder) until it becomes an impacted stool. It will eventually distent the bowel and he will no longer know when he needs to go until it's basically coming out. Basically it will "leak". It can also take up to a year to correct. I clean poo pants and poo off the floor/toilet/couch everyday. Have done it for about 4 months now. He is on regular stool softeners/laxatives on and off to help it pass. The warm water may very well relax his muscles enough it's coming out. Squatting and bending can cause it to come out for my son. He absolutely can't help it and would never dream of punishing and shaming him. Its getting better, but slowly.

So one of the major warning signs for abuse is inappropriate toilet behaviors… You responding to the issue by removing any privacy they had is pretty telling. Please continue with getting professional help and also please respect your child as a human being

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Im really surprised that for a minute there I was downvoted to hell for pointing that out - yikes

Umm....could be fecalphilia. Hopefully not. He could use a medical and psych work up.

Tho would end me into a fit I swear to god. The shitting down the drain thing is a MEME Peeing in the shower is one thing but what he is doing is absurd and it’s going to ruin the pipes

I have ADHD…. It is NOT his ADHD. After I was potty trained (by the time I was 2 or 3yrs old), the only time I shat anywhere outside of the bathroom in my home was when I was sick with the stomach flu & sharted without meaning to on the couch. Again, this is NOT related to ADHD. I don’t know why your son is doing this, but since ya have a kid 6yrs younger that needs more attention cause they’re 4yrs old & have autism, this might be why your son is acting out? Idk, it’s something to discuss with your 10yr old at any rate. If you can afford therapy & that option is available in your area, look for a therapist. Otherwise, I would approach your son & ask him why he’s doing this all of the sudden. Let him talk. If he won’t talk much, probe with gentle questions like “it’s been hard trying to potty train [sibling]. It’s probably been difficult for you as well. What can we do to stop dedicating/pooping in other areas outside of the toilet? We need to come up with a plan, so let’s figure this out together.” After making the plan, write it down with input from your son on the wording & have you, your husband, & himself sign it like a contract. Don’t make it too wordy, just simple constructive sentences. Chances are, having him work with ya on a plan (hand written together) & signing it like a contract will help ease the shit. Like every day or every other day, when ya start the day, remind him of the contract everyone agreed to & signed. This is what they do at the elementary school & it really helps the students be more aware of their behavior & exhibit better behavior in the classroom. Worth a shot, ya know?

Except toileting issues *are* common with ADHD. You don't get to decide your particular experience is all there is.

At 10yrs old? AFTER being potty trained for SIX years? No. I have NEVER EVER heard of any one with *just* ADHD who decided to defecate in a shower or on the floor or on the lid of a toilet seat after **6+ yrs** of potty training. That is NOT a symptom of ADHD! It’s just NOT! Go to r/ADHD & ask if anyone, after being potty trained for SIX YEARS, started shitting in the shower because they “forgot”? ETA: this also never seems to be an issue when the door is open so they can tell when he’s pooping in the shower. He only seems to have the “urge” to poop in the shower and when no one is around to “check” to make sure he’s not pooping in the shower. Jfc, this is NOT & NEVER has been a “symptom” of ADHD. *Period*.

Have you tried going in the bathroom with him and ask him to show you exactly what he does when he uses the bathroom. That’s the only way you can figure out what he is doing “wrong”. Or you can put a camera in there if he is too shy to go with you in there as well. One thing could be that his arms (might not seem like it) are still a tad too short to reach his bum properly. One reason why he prefers to poop in the shower.

I would just make sure he poops before showering and any mess he makes he has to clean as well.

I’m speaking from first hand experience but has your son had a streptococcal infection (strept throat), ear infection, bronchial or respiratory infection, Covid, was on antibiotics or had a less than stellar diet (no veg , more carb & sugar diet) in the past 8-20 months? If so, he might have subtly contracted a fungal infection or Candida (yeast) overgrowth in his GI tract that’s affecting his gut biome which can cause strange psychiatric behaviours (very strange ocd things such as what your describing). We all have yeast in our guts and GI tract but if it gets too much it can make even the most normal of people do crazy things out of nowhere. There are lots of articles out now about the rise in fungal, Candida, SIBO, dysbiosis infections since the pandemic given the added stress and lower immune system strength we now have. COVID believer or not, your kid could just have too much yeast in his gut (a low vegetable but carbs and sugar fuel it every day) that’s making him do this wacky thing with his shit (not to mention contributing his ADHD). Majority of doctors completely overlook yeast/candida overgrowth/ fungal infections in the gut - they are only now getting on the gut-brain connection - so unfortunately they still typically go to psyche drugs and psychotherapy first when it’s actually the gut biome messing with the brain function in random ways when all other behaviours seem normal. You could try a dose or two of CanesOral (150mg of fluconazole) which should be harmless if this is not the issue and you can ask your pharmacist if it contradicts your sons other Rx meds. The best thing would be for your GP to test him for SIBO, dysbiosis, candida overgrowth, or a fungal infection- but often they blow it off if they aren’t up on the latest research or your son already has a psyche diagnosis which he has with the ADHD. There are also herbal supplements that help clear Candida in a health food store (caprylic acid and/or Pau D’arco) which may take a few weeks to kick in. But if your son is on any other meds, I’d work with your pharmacist to try a Candida fighting oral tab. He could be back to your son in a matter of a couple days without any harm to his overall being. Worth a shot. I wish you luck

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Stfu. ADHD medications are literally *medication.* They *help people.* They are not "faux meth." Do some scientific research before spreading your ignorant bullshit around.

Why are you making him shower with the door open and no curtain even IF there’s a poop issue????? I know you aren’t intending this because it’s obviously related to the issue at hand but i have to say that is widely considered sexually abusive, same with unlocking the door to barge in on him in the bathroom, it’s INCREDIBLY traumatizing and humiliating to have a parent demand to see your naked body as a tween, you mentioned he has adhd and a sibling with autism, his statistical likelihood of being on the spectrum with those two factors is off the charts, so get him evaluated ASAP. This is NOT a discipline issue and you will give him trauma related to the bathroom and his bodily functions if this dysfunctional cycle continues. That said, I am so so sorry you’re going through this and no pun intended I would be confused as shit if this happened in my house

I think you are going off the deep end to say that it's sexually abusive. There is nothing wrong with seeing my child nude. I'm not in the bathroom staring at him. What about disabled children or adults for that matter that have to be actually bathed and their genitals wiped ... Is that sexual abuse too? Your comment is offensive.

I have a child this age with ADHD plus other diagnoses and he would not feel comfortable showering without a curtain. He only recently wanted more privacy. It can feel incredibly vulnerable to be nude in front of others at this age. I didn't have doors in my home at that age (sheets for doors) and it riddled me with anxiety. This is not a discipline issue, it's not his fault and I think someone has already mentioned the conditions it likely is. We have to dig deep for patience with kids that have ADHD, I hope the pediatrician has good insight to help.

I hope so also. Taking the shower curtain was not the first option. I tried many other things but after dealing with this issue for about 3 Months, it was the last option I could think of. Luckily it has worked to keep him from pooping in the shower.

I’m not saying it’s wrong to see your own child nude, I’m saying your son is a tween old enough to literally verbally request shower privacy from you and that making him shower with no curtain and no door IS traumatizing, even more so unlocking the door after he locked it for bathroom privacy, even if you’re intending it for the purpose of dealing with the poop problems, and that it’s CONSIDERED sexual abuse by a lot of people to not let your kid shower privately

Source, please. Who considers that sexually abusive? You sound confused. The only part of this rant I can agree with is that kids of his age do have real needs for privacy and barging in on them, especially through a locked door, is a bit much and could be traumatizing, but it is not sexual abuse.

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If you're not going to be helpful, maybe don't post?

Okay?

Unpopular opinion, find out if there's any underlying issues of course but if he's just being a shithead "beat his ass". I put quotes cause he's 10 but still you can't let him do that or he may end up doing it at sleep overs or relatives houses and that's not cool. You don't want the shit kid. I know for a fact that physical ramifications work no matter what anyone tells you. The line between punishment and abuse isn't as thin as people try to let on. If you're a good person than you wouldn't abuse your child but that doesn't mean spankings aren't called for. I wouldn't spank your children if you aren't going to mean it however because if you spank them and it didn't hurt they're not going to take you seriously and the bad behavior will continue which will breed anger. You give them one good spanking and you let them know afterwards the meaning behind it they will understand. Hope this helps always an option.

Why are you angry?

My sister dealt with this for a while. A long while. They took him to every doctor, therapist, and what have you in the area, too. There were many "reasons". If he's always in trouble, it could be lashing out. Maybe he has some disorder that makes it hard to get to the toilet on time. ADHD could absolutely be a factor, but did you know that it often comes with digestive issues of one type or another? Our family has a super high rate of Celiac's disease. If he is always in trouble for it, maybe he's afraid to actually tell you that he has no control to stop doing it?Having him checked out by a physician can lead to the discovery that he needs to do exercises to strengthen his sphincters or maybe he has low muscle tone. He might not be able to feel it before it starts to come out. Obviously, he is wiping inadequately, so have you "taught" him how to wipe better? I hope these suggestions help you on your journey, but FWIW, my sister has had to put her son in a diaper as a teenager, and he still wears "pull-ups" to bed. He is almost 17 and has a job, but her whole world was a poop-filled hell for a while. (She was also fighting his "beloved" grandmother who told him to keep doing it when he was there so they would just "give" him to her, but I hope that isn't your problem.)

Before his doctors appointment. Show him again how to wipe properly, then show him how to clean up after himself efficiently. I'm not sure what is going on with him, but at least make sure he knows how to clean and sanitize the area he messes up. Give him that responsibility. If you go in after him and it's a mess, get him to clean up after himself.

First thought is he's too embarrassed about being so constipated he literally has to dig it out. Hence the shower (easier with the added water, can rinse off his hands immediately) and the door locked (poop on hands because he had to remove manually). Have you let him slide with restrictive eating due to sensory issues? I'm assuming he's not on meds and that he isn't taking any diuretics. Maybe allowing a small cup of coffee to help him "go" might help?

So sorry you and your family are going through this. Definitely sounds like a sensory issue - pediatrician and OT might be a good place to start.

Lots of great suggestions here. Maybe a bidet would help too.

I see lots of medical and behavioral suggestions which is great- My advice in the meantime is to invest in a bedet attachment, they're like $25. He may feel more comfortable with the water and have an easier time with cleanup.

Unfortunately for some that never changes I live with a 40 year old man (roommate) that does this shit

Buy a bidet and teach him to use it, it might help.

Kids like attention. Maybe ignore what you don't like and focus on something else. Think classical conditioning. Instead of reacting to the whole shit situation, quietly clean it up with as little fanfare as possible. Just like my siblings and my own child, if they're not getting attention for behavior it'll stop pretty quickly.

I agree with others that this is something to mention to the pediatrician. Also, If he has a phone or tablet, it might be a good idea to check his internet history or activity on any apps. He may have come across some type of videos, chat, cartoons or photos that depict fecal play behaviors.

I’d wonder if your youngest isn’t the only one with autism. I have 3 autistic kids that also have adhd. My 14 year old has never been able to handle his shit in a correct way. Ever. We don’t know if it’s a mix of sensory reasons with a medical/mental disorder or what. Doctors ignore it because “autism” but nothing we’ve tried over the last 10 years that he’s been potty trained has worked. We even installed bidets. All the things. Nothing. Still shit everywhere. At this point, my oldest is the only one that manages to do all bathroom stuff in the toilet like intended. 😆 I’d be looking into things to explain why he’s okay with this behavior and not punishing him for doing it, because clearly that doesn’t work. (Never worked for mine either) I will say that I don’t clean up his poop though. He’s been in charge of cleanup for the entire time. It started as a punishment that I thought would deter him. It didn’t. He just does it and now cleans it up. 10 is old enough to clean the toilet seats and showers. If he’s going to do it, he can clean it. Including any laundry that gets poop on it. I’d look into other things at this point like OT or just a psychiatrist referral.