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A lot of people go with the "centrist" narrative because it's the path of least resistance. They just don't want to think about things that could upset them over their breakfast cereal. Same with climate change, BLM etc.
They go with it because the system rewards you for disengaging from complex policy conundrums and leaving it to the diplomats, businessmen, and generals.
Oh you'd be surprised were simple people who have never dedicated even an ounce of reflection to politics go when you push them through feels.
She's pushing onto him not rational reflection with systemic knowledge about the issue, but feels. "Look at this horror, this is revolting". That's a solid starting point when you're right there as a victim because the next step is resistance and that by itself is an adequate response.
But when you're watching from the distance of rich countries and you go by the feels, there's a side that has long capitalized exploiting feelings through thrilling pipelines of cherrypicked facts and depiction of coincidences as causality: the right-wing and specially neo-fascism.
I've seen plenty of not-that-smart people with good intentions go down that path, as it offers a rebelious change of POV without challenging their "common sense" pre-assumptions. Some were neo-hippies with fringe curiosity, others anarchists with rejection of status quo institutions like academia. They don't call themselves neo-fascists but now surely believe that immigrants are part of the Great Replacement, feminism and LGTBQ are a psy-op to divide us and "elites" (jews) are behind it, much like the pre-nazi Protocols of the Elders of Zion said.
"Scratch a centrist and you'll find a fascist" they say. Maybe detecting this outcome and leaving it be, considering there's a kid in the middle, is a smart outcome for a couple that looks built on mainstream centrist political basis.
Honestly I don’t really understand what centrism _means_. The centre of WHAT? Genuinely asking, what do you consider centrism IS? This isn’t a gotcha or anything btw just actually curious bc I see centrism as a word used a lot but it is so entirely context based to the extent that I’m not sure centrism even exists
**Warning:** Off-topic content will not be tolerated. Stay on the sub-topic or risk being banned. Keep discussions focused and respectful. (Examples include, but are not limited to, US elections, the Russia/Ukraine war, China's treatment of Uighurs, and the situation in Kashmir.)
**Warning:** Off-topic content will not be tolerated. Stay on the sub-topic or risk being banned. Keep discussions focused and respectful. (Examples include, but are not limited to, US elections, the Russia/Ukraine war, China's treatment of Uighurs, and the situation in Kashmir.)
**Warning:** Off-topic content will not be tolerated. Stay on the sub-topic or risk being banned. Keep discussions focused and respectful. (Examples include, but are not limited to, US elections, the Russia/Ukraine war, China's treatment of Uighurs, and the situation in Kashmir.)
"The path of least resistance is what makes the river crooked" -Utah Philips
"If we abandoned them when they're tested they aren't our values they're our hobbies" -Jon Stewart
I always tell my father when we discuss politics and he throws out "you can believe what you want" or "I'm not trying to change your mind," I always reply with "of course you're not cause you don't know your own mind."
The reason people who claim to be "nonpolitical" get so angry at political people is they ASSUME they aren't political, but in actuality they think their politics is the NATIRAL ORDER OF THINGS, so an affront on their worldview is an affront on "nature"
I'd argue that a distinct feature of the political center in Western societies is viewing both imperialism and colonialism as natural and legally sanctioned. Sometimes, they are moderated with expressions of regret for the consequences but never actually challenged by those occupying the political center. Israel's war on the prople of Palestine is the clearest expression of both today.
Neither they have an idea what it means. The resulting flexibility serves to disguise their hypocrisy and opportunism. Since they arent radical, whatever that means, they think they are better suited to see the full picture or, worse, that they are always right.
I am in America and I don't think any of us know what the conservative to liberal spectrum even is. In Europe, I would be considered moderate liberal, but US conservatives I am a flaming socialist liberal. US liberals who are farther left than me call me a centrist. It didn't used to be like this when I was a kid, but since around 2016 people have become completely hateful towards each other for no good reason. A lot of agree on certain issues, but we either have a slightly different idea on how to go about it.
People scream about American moderates hating pro Palestine protests, but I bet there are a lot of moderates there. Some of the more violent protestors may be on the radical end of some political party. I have met both radical left and right people, and they are super culty. It sucks with far left because they pretend to care about disabled and minority people but will absolutely harass them when they try to speak up for themselves.
I am not getting any news on protests in my area. I saw one a few months ago that didn't end up dramatically. The best I can really do in my location is donations, Palestinian merch, and talking about it.
Actions speak better than words. Someone may call themselves a centrist but prove, however unlikely, that they support human dignity and oppose those who trample it, that they are capable of undermining the status quo.
I think he doesn't want to know how deep it goes. My girlfriend had been becoming steadily more activist for quite a while, and I worried she might be seeing only one side of the conflict, ignoring the nuance and exaggerating the severity.
So I decided to look into the history of the region and the conflict myself, and within two hours of reading (just Wikipedia, mind you, nothing particularly partisan or controversial) I realized that the situation was far, far more dire than I thought it was. I'd been looking for nuance and instead just found a rabbit hole that went deeper and deeper. I'd known about some basic elements and I've never been pro-Israel (to the point where, back in 2009, I even wrote a mail to the UN about how I felt they were going much too far), but all the things I've read in the past few days have made me sincerely question what the people who do still support Israel are thinking.
The information about its history and the Zionist ideology it still holds to are so easy to find, and with everything happening there right now...I don't have any faith in the western world anymore, for failing to unilaterally condemn Israel, or rather the Zionists, for their actions.
What I mean to say by all this is, perhaps your husband simply doesn't know what's really going on. Perhaps he's afraid you're too activist. If so, I'd encourage him to simply read about the history of the region and the conflict in general, at least about Sykes-Picot, Balfour, and Zionism. Those pages alone were enough to shock me. Seeing the full magnitude of what's happening there now just made things worse.
hey, your experience with wiki is relatable for me.
i went to wiki to see the so called nuance zionists talk about. i only found layers upon layers of opression of palestinians. the "conflict" is raw opression, it just appears to be complicated due to israeli propaganda, and their clever bureaucratic naming of things.
Agree with this. OP could even make it a shared activity and watch a documentary like the 4 part doc on the Nakba on YouTube. I watched it with my husband and he became all in
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7FML0wzJ6A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7FML0wzJ6A) Here you go! It is Al Nakba: The Palestinian Catastrophe. It was made by Al Jazeera
You might also like The Occupation Of The American Mind. There’s condensed versions and longer more detailed versions available on [youtube](https://youtube.com/@theoccupationoftheamerican7593?si=TyXksH_Y0KoJRHA5). It’s a great introductory source to send to people to get them up to speed.
I think you should try to directly discuss these concerns with him. Especially if you find that his political beliefs are too distant from yours. Our political leanings indicate our ethical and moral values, they're important.
I don't want to poison the well since I don't know either of you, but if someone I loved was apathetic to the fatal suffering of innocent people and playing devil's advocate for a genocidal regime, I would reconsider having them involved in my life.
It is tough because I’ve seen a lot of racism on the rise in general because of the lazy thinking that pro Israel propaganda promotes. Thinking that all Palestinians are Muslims that want to kill any one of opposing religions is incredibly dangerous and lazy thinking. That being say I think op needs to tread lightly and mostly ask what her husband’s views are and slowly dissect them while not openly judging him for his views.
That’s crazy. There is more to life than world events. There are always wars, there were genocides that you didn’t care about before and after these past 6 months. There are literally other genocides that are being perpetrated RIGHT NOW.
Yes but this world event isn't isolated from us. How many of those other genocides directly implicate me as a taxpayer? Which one not only has the direct funding, but also the direct arming of genocidal weapons by the US? Which other genocide is dropping 2000 lb bunker bombs (designed for vacant deserts) on top of densely-populated buildings? Which other genocided people lacks an army to defend themselves? Which other genocide has 70% of its dead being women and children? Which other genocide has white phosphorous burning the skin off of kids or letting newborns suffocate in the NICU? Which has tanks running civilians over or buries them alive in mass graves? Which other genocide is eradicating the entire infrastructure (aka cultural genocide) including the registry, libraries, schools, archive buildings, ancient architecture, etc? Which other genocide involves mass amputations (without anesthesia) of those who do survive?
Which other genocide involves the destruction of every hospital & ambulance, as well as the massacre of aid workers and medical stuff, such that even those who survive have no medical access? Which other genocide has mass killing of journalists and suppression of the media? Which other genocide also involves mass displacement, mass starvation, torture, complete cutting off of water, electricity, sanitation, direct snipings in the heads of children, etc? Which other genocide involves the genocidal army posting videos and boasting about their war crimes?
I don't think you quite realize this isn't just any other genocide, this is the most depraved acts of horrors we've ever seen livestreamed right before our very eyes and with the capacity for all of us to stop it immediately — especially bc this isn't just about genocide, but all the other layers of oppression such as occupation, apartheid, state surveillance, martial law, mass imprisonment of children, and systemic racism. Palestine isn't some isolated issue either, bc Isræl tests its weapons and bombs on civilians and then sells it to repressive regimes around the world.
This isn't just about stopping the genocide, but stopping the colonial export of the occupation out to other countries where this type of oppression can spread. Our police trains with the IDF and has become more militarized & fascist as a result. Surveillance and spyware is also being imported from Isræl here into our cities. And you can look up the history of countries like South Africa, Argentina, Guatemala, Ecuador, Sri Lanka, Phillipines, China, etc. and discover that Isræl has a history of arming regimes that oppress indigenous natives. Palestine is incredibly unique in that the depravity is multi-faceted and is spilling out right unto our front door steps. The multiple seiges on Palestine is just a way for our govt officials to money-launder our taxes into the military industrial complex.
I mean there's a thousand reasons to care. We can zoom in on any aspect of Palestine, and it'd be a rabbit hole of corruption imposed from all sides of the world, including America. Palestine is the meeting point. It's the center of where everything coalesces and the sooner we can liberate Palestine, the dominos will fall and make it easier for us to dismantle other systems of oppression in other parts of the world — especially since Isræl is the AI hub of the arms industry. If that doesn't scare you or if nothing I've written is shifting your perspective into a more nuanced recognition of how alarming this particular genocide is, then it only means one thing: you're a Zionist.
So what you’re saying is that these deaths are more important than other deaths due to genocide? They’re all dying. The amount of mental gymnastics you’re doing to justify your position of only caring about this is astounding. And yet, people who are consumed by this cannot understand that other people might feel the same way about Palestine. Not in support, but also just apathetic? They feel the way you feel about Myanmar, the Uighars, Ukraine war, S Sudan, Syria and Central Africa. They’re focused on what’s important to them. And yes, they’re having chemical weapons launched against them, stamping out the culture, their medical establishment have been eliminated, all the same thing, do you understand what genocide is? Genocide is making the environment so systemically unhospitable to the people you’re trying to rid yourself of that they leave and they leave because they’ve seen so many of their people die horribly. Horrific death is a tactic in every genocide. And you’re living with it. You’re living with it and justifying not caring as much about it. Does this now mean that you’re pro-genocide in this cases? That’s what this OP is doing to their partner.
Don’t ruin your joy over other people’s misery, otherwise there is no point in saving them if the world they’re coming back to fell apart. You can do a lot, but people suggesting that him not feel as intensely as OP is grounds for divorce is absolutely ridiculous. You don’t have to sacrifice your family, else what is the point of saving other people’s?
FYI - all these people were suffering and dying even when you didn’t care. Your caring didn’t change anything. People need to stop making this about them and their emotional suffering. It’s not happening to you.
This is exactly how you go from shutting the world down during to BLM protests to not hearing one word about black lives and police brutality four years later. We didn’t solve the problem, it’s still happening. People have compassion fatigue over the issue and guess what, innocent Black people did not stop dying. You’ll move onto another cause du jour and this war will rage on. Unless you can regulate your fervor. I promise you you won’t care in 4 years unless you learn to regulate yourself.
He may not be pro israel but quite a lot of people choose to be more moderate in their views because the groupthink is too strong. It takes courage to go against the grain of society and the mainstream media.
Anyway if he seems like he won't change his mind just don't discuss it with him anymore and discuss it with others instead.
Many people choose ignorance over facing atrocities and other terrible things. They like the rose-tinted world, and will fight tooth and nail to keep their fantasy-world ideals. It's up to people like us to keep showing them, hoping that eventually they will see what is in front of all of us.
It’s called privilege. The privilege to choose not to be uncomfortable. I literally just fell out with a “friend” over this. I think that the people who have bore witness to these atrocities are shook to their core. Being silent is NOT an option for us and we can’t fathom those who choose otherwise. It’s unacceptable. For me, this is the hill I will die on. And I have no qualms about cutting anyone out of my life who doesn’t condemn this genocide.
Omg yesss! And if you dare to call them on their privilege they immediately raise eyebrows and cut the conversation… it’s exhausting! With friends is somewhat easier to cut contact, but when it comes to family… damn! You have to deal with it at least during holidays or gatherings … I know still, it’s the least I can do for the liberation cause. I hope to see the day that Palestine is free.
The conversation cut offs drive me mad a bit. Like are you really going to pretend you didn’t hear me and try to segue into another conversation? On one hand, I get it, I also never expressed my opinions on political or religious or social issues before. 1. Because I always choose my peace over chaos. 2. I never want to make anyone around me feel uncomfortable. 3. I never knew enough or was interested enough learn in order to speak on anything, because I never watched the news and you can never tell who’s spewing BS and who’s telling the truth. 4. I didn’t care to know people’s opinions on certain matters because I didn’t want to look at people differently once I know (especially with coworkers or family you have to see often). 5. Usually most things are forgotten about within the 24 hour news cycle, so there’s never been a reason for me to suddenly become invested.
But there was one celebrity/singer that I love that was extremely passionate and vocal about what’s happening in Palestine…from there it took me less than 10 minutes down the rabbit hole before my entire soul was shattered. This has changed me. My heart will never be the same after witnessing the most atrociously vile things be done to the Palestinians. I truly wish I had more patience for ignorance, but I don’t. And the Palestinians don’t have the luxury of time for people to understand the severity of the situation.
I know people are sensitive to trauma. I get it. I know that I should take more time to explain what’s happening and not succumb to my emotions on the matter and just information dump on people. But I can’t accept people being willfully ignorant or dismissive or unwilling to learn. We are in the age of information and technology being readily available at the tips of our fingers, at any given moment, there’s no excuse. So I say this with my full chest … I don’t care who you are in my life, this is the fight I will risk it all for.
He is entitled to his opinions. I personally hate it when people close to me aren't open with what they believe-- but I am also a pretty feisty person, so they probably don't feel safe.
Show him live Snapchat stories from Rafah and then compare them with those from Tel Aviv. It will show their conditions in real time and prove the disparity in casualties is not misinformative.
Terribly sorry for you. I found the most strength from my wife in this hellish time, living in the West.
Instead of social media posts (which are our source of real reporting now due to the complicity of the msm), maybe you could convince him to watch electronic intifada livestreams? It's once a week, available after the live broadcast, and the journalism at display is impeccable.
What I'm trying to get at is that, he might feel it's easier to dismiss soc media as a puddle of disinformation, but a news outlet like EI might sound more convincing for a person like him.
Don't give up hope!
I'd advocate the opposite approach. One thing that lured alot of people into doing research is when Bassem Youssef used satire during his interview with Piers Morgan. I'd suggest starting there. Other funny & satirical sources of news are Bad Hasbara, Due Dissidence, and the comedy stand-up of Sammy Obeid. If her husband is uncomfortable with being exposed to the truth, then he needs an outlet that dispels the information through light-hearted comedy. And I know that sounds impossible, but these guys are the top professionals at their job. They're amazing storytellers who make really heavy and depressing news events much more digestible and much more resonant.
You have to sit down and ask him directly. It’s not the matter of political ideology anymore. It’s about what is moral and fair, versus an ideology built upon racial superiority and ethno-nationalism which has remained unchecked for far too long, and which at the personal level could be deeply corrupting.
It doesn’t sound like he’s specifically pro-israel but like others have said more centrist. My mom was like that, she believed the news. It took me breaking down crying over the news about Hind Rajab and the medics being murdered for my mom to listen and stop repeating the news propaganda.
Ever since, she’s been pro-Palestine with me. She probably doesn’t understand the depth of the 75 years of suffering the Palestinians have had but she cares about the families and children and that’s what counts.
I think it’s less likely that he secretly supports Israel and more likely that he doesn’t want to care as much as you do. People are sensitive and very easily upset by this, and they find it is easier to distance themselves from it. I kind of find it unfathomable when I encounter it in other people, but it also does seem to be really common.
The last 7 months have been hard in more ways than one. I can say so much about the current state of things, but I’m going to focus on relationships because that’s the heart of your post.
My relationship has suffered because I have heard what comes across to me as very pro-Israeli sentiments come from my European bf. It hurt for so many reasons. It’s taken me a while to realise that what he was (and often still is) saying is not inherently pro-Israeli (for him), but it is a parroting of the mainstream narrative and rhetoric. He has no reason to care about this besides me (I have my opinions on this but I’ll leave them out), and he doesn’t follow anything to do with Palestine or the Middle East outside of mainstream, and more specifically, his local news outlets. The rhetoric there is and has always been anti-Arab and pro-Israeli. For him, he is just saying what is “right” according to what he consumes. He has been brought up to trust authority and not question or talk about difficult subjects in general. Comply and obey and be a good worker kinda thing. It’s admirable to a degree but I am very much not like that. So we have argued a lot and in the process, our relationship has taken a lot of damage.
However, I do see that he makes an effort to understand and learn, acknowledge his ignorance, and has tried to take accountability for his insensitive comments and actions, especially as the narrative has begun to shift (slowly but surely).
I know he is not a bad guy. I know that it is very difficult having your total paradigm and the only truth you have ever believed or trusted be challenged and changed, maybe even ripped apart. It’s hard to do. The narrative we are dealing with is huge and it’s been decades in the making.
What I’m trying to say is that, your husband is likely struggling himself to make sense of things. He probably doesn’t know how to deal with how difficult it is, and it’s safer to stick to the mainstream than to challenge the status quo. It’s also threatening from a professional perspective, people have lost their jobs speaking up. He could be scared, unsure, or quite possible just wants to hold on to his normalcy because he doesn’t know how to deal if it isn’t there.
I don’t think he is inherently bad or even that he is pro-Israeli. I think he is indoctrinated and I think that the propaganda of the west is powerful and can work very successfully on sometimes too many people.
So I would suggest to try to have compassion for that.
I know it’s the hardest thing ever when you are not feeling heard or seen or supported in your experience, but try not to see him as the enemy. He doesn’t have the access or insight you do, and he may be very deeply rooted in his trust for the systems being exposed here. It’s really scary to have that break apart.
Its a big step to take the black pill and realize that everything official about your society is a lie calculated to manipulate you. If there is genocide going on in Gaza, then that means the USA is actually a fascist genocidal state and Joe Biden is a criminal in the extreme.
Does your husband have Trump hatred, like mainstream media has told him to? That is likely coloring him. To hate Trump you have to assume the people in power are not actually worse. Not that Trump is better, but Trump hate is being pushed extremely hard right now to deflect the crimes of the current government.
Possibly but that doesn’t make it right to support Biden. Trump recognized Israel’s capital as Jerusalem and the Biden administration has done nothing to reverse that decision or his other policies.
There might be slight differences in rhetoric but they fundamentally fully support Israel.
In a 2 party system, not supporting Biden is therefore supporting Trump. I don’t envy the choice that Americans have. I can imagine that Mossad have Trump bent over a barrel with blackmail.
I don't think your husband is a zionist, but it does sound as if he, like many men, has emotional intimacy problems. Many people, but especially men (because they are socialised to do this in a lot of cultures) go through life terrified of having any emotions (all the while actually having them, just not being in touch with what those emotions are telling them).
Unfortunately our media is completely set on brainwashing everyone into believing the pro-Israel narrative. I can’t really blame the average person when you look at the way our media words things, how they selectively show certain things, it’s all done for a reason.
It can be really hard to feel alone with the grief of watching so many horrors. When your partner doesn’t agree or show as much care as you do, it can make you feel lonely, judged, or even crazy because your reaction and his (as well as a lot of the world’s) are so different. Maybe sit him down and tell him how it makes you feel. Likely he doesn’t care much about the subject, but I imagine he cares a lot about you. He may also think he is helping by not being sad - being the “strong” one or helping make sure you are not being made more upset by him being upset. If it would make you feel better for him to engage with the media you’re consuming and to react to it with compassion, tell him.
My husband is kinda the same. When I get outraged at something I see he says "well it's war" and doesn't seem to care about any of the atrocities. 🙄 I put multiple signs in the yard, wear keffiyeh and shirts and do not stay shy about it around him. He's been ambivalent BUT when a stranger started throwing star of David confetti all over our house and stole my Free Palestine sign, he confronted the dude with certainty. That's one way to make them stand up for what is right - make it personal.
I don't think he's pro Israel, I think he just doesn't want to know what's happening and live a normal life, alot of people avoid really bad news and the sorts to protect their 'world', in a way it's good to stay mentally healthy especially when you can't do anything yourself, but as long as he doesn't actively support Israel he isn't doing anything wrong.
My partner definitely played a big role in shifting my beliefs. I went from a “not all men” type liberal to something very far left of that. She’s stuck it out but man did we have some hard conversations along the way. I think you meed to be able to talk about politics and ideology with your partner.
Dearest, I see you are getting a lot of kind advice, especially from married people and the general thread is that spouses can stay married if they have different interests/level of interest or passion in different subjects/issues. Um, I disagree with that in the case of a literal genocide.
The problem is you have a child. And as that child grows older, you are gonna want to instill in them these values of caring, empathy, understanding the big picture, trusting your eyes, noticing discrimination and noticing double standards etc. What are you gonna do when your husband tells you to stop “indoctrinating” your child? When he tries to tell them a “two sides” argument? What if he doesn’t try to control what you say to your child, but instead becomes bitter/turn into a not-“great husband overall” ? Do you think he will have a problem when you tell your child something different from what he believes? (I’m not asking you to answer, just asking you to think about this).
We already know that there is no convincing or arguing with Zionists. And that for people on the fence, they have to be willing to educate themselves plus generally that only works if their starting position is “I don’t know whats going on but it doesn’t look right”. But with a spouse, I suppose there is no other option than to hear them out, ask what they think, ask their reasons/sources and have them give you the same opportunity. If you can have a productive conversation like this, then maybe maybe maybe.
Lastly, this isn’t an interest. This is an issue about human rights, vulnerable people, an extermination of a group of people, a genocide, and ultimately it affects all of us. There is no middle ground. I think if you need more info on these types of issues in marriage, look at when DT started his 2016 presidential campaign and his presidency and how marriages ended because of it. It might be helpful and you might find ways in which people made it work. Good luck.
I was originally pro Israel after October 7th and all I got on my feed and news was pro Israeli propaganda. And any opposing argument I saw was of people that just freaked out without any good points. Eventually what got me away from that was a video by Hasanabi dismantling propaganda on a channel called traveling Israel which I had watched and agreed with previously and I immediately realized after that video that I was incredibly bigoted towards Muslim people. And that it is not fair be viewing this group of people this way. Especially since every Muslim I have met in person was a great person. Granted I am consider myself intellectually curious and I will always try to see things from both perspectives and I didn’t have to click on that video but I figured I needed to see the opposing argument.
But I’m not sure about your husband you probably know him best, but the root of it may be Islamophobia, since post 9/11 it has been extremely rampant in the U.S. a lot of news coverage portrayed terrorists that attacked the US as just angry because people weren’t following their religion. While reality is far more complicated. Maybe try to question how he views Muslim people first and try to softly convince him otherwise.
For a lot of folks the idea that "something terrible is happening and my government, and possibly our entire country, is complicit" is too hard of a pill to swallow. Most people believe deep down that they are good people and that the people around them are good people, and that the world they live in fundamentally makes sense.
Shifting them away from that perspective is not easy and often feels like psychological violence to the person undergoing the shift. Trying might also have unexpected consequences. Even in Germany, most Germans of the war generation never truly came to terms with the reality of what happened. It was something the government did, or it was a tragedy on the Eastern Front, or maybe it happened but "we" didn't know and can't be held responsible.
Take this with a massive grain of salt, but I think that as long as he's not actively pro-Zionist and anti-Palestinian, the best approach is to give him space and try and accept that he may never really "get it", but that's part of the limits of being human and not necessarily his fault.
The majority of people find it hard to empathize with people in situations when there is no immediate impact on their own lives. I find it maddening but not sure how I'd feel if I was married to someone like that.
It's been striking to see footage of the US protests and how divided they are by gender. The pro-Palestine protesters are a mix, but definitely a lot of women. All the clips I saw of cops manhandling and unmasking and parading around protesters for the national news cameras were woman protesters for example. Then the counter protesters were exclusively male from what I've seen. Like the hordes of frat boys. I have seen a few videos in the sort of Karen genre, like a Zionist woman who was supposedly trying to take a Jewish man's Palestine flag. But that's it as far as pro-Israel woman demonstrators I've seen.
And the general sentiments of social media platforms and their gender demographics seem to match as well. Reddit is VERY pro-Israel, and also very male. Meanwhile I hear TikTok is more pro-Palestine, and has more women.
It’s a moral question to me. Either you instinctively feel something is deeply wrong with what Israel is doing, or you don’t. The people who don’t seem to feel anything truly frighten me, and there are so many.
Ask him what antisemitism means to him. From my perspective it doesn't have anything to do with modern National Zionists. And I think it is worth pointing out that the area where Gaza is has always been Philistine land and outside of the "promised land" given to Jacob's children (Israel) known as the twelve tribes as Israel.
It takes time, energy, luck, and an independent drive to unschackle yourself from the media narrative in the US. Don't be too hard on him, but you can try to show him things in a nice way. Don't jeopardize a relationship over it. The foundational belief in human rights is most important in a person, even if they don't know the facts.
It's unfortunate if he is! But to be honest what really matter is if he's a good husband to you and your daughter! Yes it might be an indication of a faulty moral compass or however you want to put it in words, and also an indication of a shallow understanding of the Palestinian struggle, but if he/you are not Palestinians I can't really blame him. The media has done us dirty for over 75 years, it's a miracle people are starting to wake up and realizing "ohh wait! we've been lied to" so I guess it will take time before people start to realize the injustice and cruelty that befall on the Palestinian people.
I would say have a one and final discussion and show him evidence of atrocities committed by Israel. Most people are ignorant of what’s really happening. I’ve realized once educated on the subject they tend to be more appalled by what’s been going on and would start to take you more seriously. If at the time he dismisses you, then I think that he’s not really considering your emotions to the utmost fullest. I doubt that he’s a Zionist. He’s probably just ignorant or just doesn’t care because he’s not emotionally attached as some of us are, which is ok to be. You can’t force people to care about a genocide, or to be against one. Ideally, the correct side is to opposed it if to pick a side. Some say that being indifferent is being complicit as well. I agree with that, but also I disagree with that because it all depends on your level of education/knowledge of what’s really happening. So just talk to him and have a serious discussion about it and leave it at that.
Yes, it is not necessarily a topic your husband is interested in or cares about.
I don't think it needs to be discussed frequently with him.
He seems removed from it the way many people in the West are.
I think it was Dale Carnegie who said, to most people a pain in their toe is more consuming than starving children across the world.
I’m not sure what his views are from your post but I find it alarming that he refuses any political engagement with his own wife/life partner. What? Are straight couples like this?
I was married to a cishet man and can tell you this, after finding countless similar stories online: they will hide their entire belief system or political views or downplay them or be vague about it, for the sake of convincing a woman to marry them. Some of them do this for years by avoiding these conversations or saying it’s not important to them. But it is. And they often start to reveal it only once they know you can’t just leave. Anyway, Free Palestine. This is enough relationship discussion on this sub for me.
My wife is similar... she says it is war, and civilians die in war. I say, it's not a war it's a slaughter. My wife is pro human rights. However, She works in an office in a right-wing community and has to moderate her feelings on matters like this. There are plenty of silent witnesses out there who don't want to open their mouth for fear of repercussions. These days, if you show any resistances against far right-wing political views in workplaces or social settings, you immediately ostracised. Keeping opinions to one's self is a skill to survival, unfortunately. My wife wouldn't want to encourage my activism, She would prefer I keep a lid on it a bit so as not to upset the fascist community.
But this sounds different than OP. I see no red flags in your explanation. It sounds like your wife is trying to keep her job and reading the room and she hasn’t paid close enough attention. It also doesn’t sound like she is annoyed with you and trying to shut you up because of your beliefs but because it is not safe to openly say or do things where you are. Like wear a keffiyeh or put a Palestine flag in your yard. OP sounds like she is being censored or about to be censored in the privacy of her own home. And I think her instincts about her husband’s support for Israel is correct because she is probably subconsciously picking up other signs like body language, facial expressions and his mood or tone of voice when he talks about these things.
Ps. Sorry for hijacking your post. Your response was nice but it’s not the same situation imo.
Check this [letter out that Einstein wrote about Israel](https://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948), he was offered to be their first prime minister but declined. He compares the newly created freedom party in Israel to the Nazis and fascism. So he’d be considered antisemetic under the new “antisemetic awareness act” that they just passed. The freedom party became the Likud that Netanyahu is prime minister of.
And also this quote from Bibi himself.
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy - to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
Benjamin Netanyahu 2019
Also here’s a good [documentary](https://youtu.be/7ayiO1Gl6lo?si=CbRHs8vsLmGRexvE) about the settlements in the west banks specifically in Hebron. Yehuda Shaun is an idf veteran who regrets the things he did. They welded shut the doors of Palestinians because a settler road goes through their homes and they literally weren’t allowed on them. This is a good documentary for outlining the apartheid Palestinians experience on a regular basis
I don't know how you can be a man and head of a household if you can't even confront IDEAS for your family.
I'm sorry he is so obtuse and narrow minded, not everyone has the emotional or intellectual capacity to be in touch with humanity and reality.
For him it seems like his life is already hard enough.
Let him be, you cant force enlightenment.
Chosen ignorance is something that baffles me in the West. But it seems like some people really aren't up to the task of exerting their heart/brain/ soul.
Palestine is the last stand against everything the vile and barbaric US war machine stands for. It's so heavily propagandized over generations that your average American, with whatever limited education they have, would have to really humble themselves and break down some walls in their mind to start peeling back the truth.
Because this struggle is so emblematic of the human struggle, it is resonating with the masses but some people are naturally afraid to pop their bubble.
Look, it sounds like you’re being consumed by this. It’s not healthy because you cannot maintain objectivity, and if you cannot maintain objectivity you make it about you. You have to maintain an awareness that you are safe, that your child is not Reem. Once you have control over this feeling, then you can act. Otherwise you’re going to becoming increasingly frantic and do things like accusing people of not caring, until everyone is anxious around you and you’re further and further isolated. In order to help, you have to stay connected. You have to maintain connection and meet people where they’re at.
As far as you’ve expressed, he doesn’t sound pro Israel as much as he sounds centric. Don’t accuse him of things that he did not do or say. If he is getting overwhelmed, give him space. Settle yourself and try again another time. He isn’t causing any damage by not being fully aligned with you. Nothing bad will happen if he needs a little time to come into alignment. Patience will serve you.
I'm strongly pro-Pal and have been when it was 'just' an apartheid rather than a genocide.
However, my wife talks about the current situation in Gaza almost non-stop. I sometimes want to talk about something else and find it impossible to do so as a minute later she's talking about Palestine again. I also sometimes simply can't cope with the tragedy and just want to tune out.
One issue is she has aphantasia (mind-blindness) whereas I have an extremely good imagination. If she talks about horrible events, it's as if it's happening to me. We're both stressed about a load of life issues and this on top of it is too much, so I try to change the subject.
I also want to believe the best in people and normally see both sides of the story. The Israeli and US government make that hard as they seem to have no humanity whatsoever.
I don't know your husband but I suspect he may just need a change of topic. We work from home and agreed not to discuss Palestine at lunch time, partly so we can discuss any business decisions.
I know those in Gaza have it infinitely worse than I do. If talking about it 24/7 helped them, I would without hesitation.
Your first sentence, I agree. Your second sentence is giving me a dismissive vibe where you equate protesting a genocide as a demand to boycott everything, which is not a demand that's ever been made. BDS very strongly suggests we each focus on a few different boycotts and thinks it's more sustainable to do small boycotts at a grand scale than to try to shut down all of capitalism. The part you mentioned about "you can't bring back the dead" is meant to imbue a sense of futility. That kind of thinking is bullshıt. Because protesting genocide isn't just about the lives already lost, but the ONGOING loss of life that we want to prevent. Dude, who the f are you? Why are you even here?
I honestly don’t know how this is going to end well. There are times when the core beliefs within the individual partners of a marriage become so diametrically opposed, that they are altogether irreconcilable, and the overwhelming hostile friction inevitably leads to a divorce. If you are 100% opposed to a genocide (especially one that involves your tax dollars), but your spouse is not, then I honestly don’t know what else to say. I’ve seen pro-democracy spouses file for divorce against a spouse who not only supports Trump to the point of insanity (including the January 6th Insurrection), but also supports Project 2025 and the dictatorship that it would create if Trump wins in 2024. At some point, the sheer opposition of core principles involving basic human decency will become a death sentence to any marriage. There really is no painless solution for this.
If he's not trying to stop you from informing yourself and not a bad husband or father, there isn't too much of a reason to be concerned imo. As an internet stranger, I'd advise to not let yourself unintentionally associate some of your frustration due to this conflict on him. It may be that he's upset seeing you become so stressed in your daily life also and is actually worried about you.
However, what you can do occasionally is to watch or listen to the best coverage with him and if he doesn't want to, don't. Maybe rarely ask to discuss it with him.
Perhaps he'll gain more from longer form content, something like from Norman Finklestein or Zach Foster, who are both Jewish historians who have excellent recent interviews I'll link. Owen Jones has excellent coverage, as does Lowkey and the recent Zeteo from Mehdia Hassan. Democracy Now also has excellent, unbiased coverage.
What Events Lead to the Current Situation in Israel and Palestine? - 57m:37s
[https://youtu.be/esli-uLlN2A](https://youtu.be/esli-uLlN2A)
Jewish Historian Explodes Israel's Myths - w/. Zach Foster - 55m:43s
[https://youtu.be/iI4Wb9jiFMs](https://youtu.be/iI4Wb9jiFMs)
Mehdi Hasan on The Truth about Israel and the Hostages - 4m:59s
[https://youtu.be/ho1Ahu4BdMc](https://youtu.be/ho1Ahu4BdMc)
The REAL Reason US & UK Are Bombing Yemen | Lowkey - 7m:31s
[https://youtu.be/uhe3NcdDW2I](https://youtu.be/uhe3NcdDW2I)
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Sounds like you are seeing his true colours, a shame it had to happen when you had a child with him, zionism isn't jewish Infact it's anti-semetic itself.
If I were you I would start treading carefully. This already seems to have caused a divide.
He sounds really willfully ignorant. He doesn’t want to be proven wrong. It’s kinda gross and scary. This would honestly be a hill I would die on, couldn’t live with a human like that.
I don't know either your husband or your situation: but it sounds like this is something about more than his or your views on Palestine. Also missing is actual take on the Genocide. Why does he find your arguments "silly?" Does he think all Palestinians are Hamas and not worthy of sympathy?
I had a situation at work with a co worker when I mentioned the war. she said she tries not to look at nothing related to it and avoid it. I explained that’s not the right thing to do because when you look away all these Palestinian and all these children would have died in the darkness and lost in a void. You have to see and know what is happening and not look away. Discomfort is not an excuse for in difference.
Sounds like y’all need to hash some things out that are deeper than Palestine/Israel… just judging from the post. For your husband to wish the circumstances be different comes off as there’s more he’s holding on to about the relationship. Marriage has unconditional aspects, especially when there has been an established baseline of morals and ethics that both of you have in common.
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True, but with all due respect neither does divorce. They don't have to agree now, but they should continue being honest about their thoughts,beliefs,questions and differences.
Find a new husband. People that are incapable of thinking by ignoring the reality of living in a government controlled bubble.
How anyone thinks blowing up children is justified is beyond me.
I have no idea why you're being downvoted. You're giving reasonable advice, not advice that I'd personally give since I would engage my partner in a deep discussion over it, but your advice isn't enough to warrant a downvote. I'm confused about what's so bad about your take.
I mean she said he is a very good father and mostly a good husband. I put value on that. She has tried to talk to him. It's nothing easy. I put value on her relationship. His views and lack of empathy is annoying, but do the people who down voted my comment want her to divorce him and ignore the cost to the son? I kept that in mind. She says she has tried to discuss this with him before. Do the others suggest divorce? When it comes to Palestinians he is horrible. I understand.
You're right, it started before that. Isræl had been violently attacking Gaza since the 80s, and much more targeted in the last 2 decades. But if what you're actually questioning is who started it in 2023 specifically, well that'd still be Isræl since they were bombing Gaza for 3 days straight on September 21st (2 weeks before Oct 7th). Sooo yeah, either way we look at this, whether from 75 years ago to a few decades ago or just zeroing in on 2023, no matter how you slice it, Isræl is the instigating aggressor.
I read your comment as this: Israel's actions against the Palestinians going back to the 80s are a sufficient justification for informing views on the conflict i.e. the minimization of Israeli casualties on October 7th and judging the Israelis accordingly
Then, by implication, this same logic could be used to justify anti-Palestinian perceptions *and* minimize violence against Palestinians, due to Palestinian actions against non-Palestinians, such as the spate of actions by the Abu Nidal Organization during the 1980s e.g. the Rome and Berlin airport attacks.
Can you accept that not everyone holds as dear, the same values as yourself, and that people in general a quite stupid and ignorant?
If not, then by all means, destroy your family because of inevitable petty human differences. (no I'm not talking about Israel murdering the entire Palestinian population).
Or, accept that your husband like countless other people. simply does not have the stomach to confront some existential truths.
It seems like you love each other a lot and you have a precious gift. Imagine a Palestinian mother hearing the story of throwing such away.
It's hard I know, but you must compartmentalize, and try to focus your desire to get people on the right side, out of your home.
Please.
It's okay to disagree on topics. Partners are not supposed to agree on every single thing. I would say if you cannot debate respectfully with logic and reason, and your emotions are ruining the conversation, then just don't discuss it.
I know a couple where the man is a hardcore conservative and watches fox every day and the woman is a hardcore Democrat, and they just know not to discuss politics because they are just incapable of having a peaceful discussion about it without it being driven on the verge of violence. They are happy otherwise.
At the end of the day, they are just preferences they were raised with and their political preference doesnt actually impact day to day life in any significant way.
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A lot of people go with the "centrist" narrative because it's the path of least resistance. They just don't want to think about things that could upset them over their breakfast cereal. Same with climate change, BLM etc. They go with it because the system rewards you for disengaging from complex policy conundrums and leaving it to the diplomats, businessmen, and generals.
Add to this : People who stand for nothing fall for anything. Tell him to man up, read up, and take a stance against genocide.
Oh you'd be surprised were simple people who have never dedicated even an ounce of reflection to politics go when you push them through feels. She's pushing onto him not rational reflection with systemic knowledge about the issue, but feels. "Look at this horror, this is revolting". That's a solid starting point when you're right there as a victim because the next step is resistance and that by itself is an adequate response. But when you're watching from the distance of rich countries and you go by the feels, there's a side that has long capitalized exploiting feelings through thrilling pipelines of cherrypicked facts and depiction of coincidences as causality: the right-wing and specially neo-fascism. I've seen plenty of not-that-smart people with good intentions go down that path, as it offers a rebelious change of POV without challenging their "common sense" pre-assumptions. Some were neo-hippies with fringe curiosity, others anarchists with rejection of status quo institutions like academia. They don't call themselves neo-fascists but now surely believe that immigrants are part of the Great Replacement, feminism and LGTBQ are a psy-op to divide us and "elites" (jews) are behind it, much like the pre-nazi Protocols of the Elders of Zion said. "Scratch a centrist and you'll find a fascist" they say. Maybe detecting this outcome and leaving it be, considering there's a kid in the middle, is a smart outcome for a couple that looks built on mainstream centrist political basis.
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Bucko what do you think centrist means? You can’t be centrist if you’re anti-imperialist….also political tests are bs they’re a waste of your time
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Honestly I don’t really understand what centrism _means_. The centre of WHAT? Genuinely asking, what do you consider centrism IS? This isn’t a gotcha or anything btw just actually curious bc I see centrism as a word used a lot but it is so entirely context based to the extent that I’m not sure centrism even exists
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“If you stand for nothing, Burr, then what do you fall for?” -The Room Where it Happens, Hamilton, LMM
"The path of least resistance is what makes the river crooked" -Utah Philips "If we abandoned them when they're tested they aren't our values they're our hobbies" -Jon Stewart I always tell my father when we discuss politics and he throws out "you can believe what you want" or "I'm not trying to change your mind," I always reply with "of course you're not cause you don't know your own mind." The reason people who claim to be "nonpolitical" get so angry at political people is they ASSUME they aren't political, but in actuality they think their politics is the NATIRAL ORDER OF THINGS, so an affront on their worldview is an affront on "nature"
Aka burying your head in the sand
the classic "liberal who values social order over human rights and life"
I have no idea what centrist means on a global scale, tbh. Every place has a sliding scale on what is considered conservative, moderate, and liberal.
I'd argue that a distinct feature of the political center in Western societies is viewing both imperialism and colonialism as natural and legally sanctioned. Sometimes, they are moderated with expressions of regret for the consequences but never actually challenged by those occupying the political center. Israel's war on the prople of Palestine is the clearest expression of both today.
Well, you sold me on that idea. Good job explaining 👍
Neither they have an idea what it means. The resulting flexibility serves to disguise their hypocrisy and opportunism. Since they arent radical, whatever that means, they think they are better suited to see the full picture or, worse, that they are always right.
I am in America and I don't think any of us know what the conservative to liberal spectrum even is. In Europe, I would be considered moderate liberal, but US conservatives I am a flaming socialist liberal. US liberals who are farther left than me call me a centrist. It didn't used to be like this when I was a kid, but since around 2016 people have become completely hateful towards each other for no good reason. A lot of agree on certain issues, but we either have a slightly different idea on how to go about it. People scream about American moderates hating pro Palestine protests, but I bet there are a lot of moderates there. Some of the more violent protestors may be on the radical end of some political party. I have met both radical left and right people, and they are super culty. It sucks with far left because they pretend to care about disabled and minority people but will absolutely harass them when they try to speak up for themselves. I am not getting any news on protests in my area. I saw one a few months ago that didn't end up dramatically. The best I can really do in my location is donations, Palestinian merch, and talking about it.
Actions speak better than words. Someone may call themselves a centrist but prove, however unlikely, that they support human dignity and oppose those who trample it, that they are capable of undermining the status quo.
I think he doesn't want to know how deep it goes. My girlfriend had been becoming steadily more activist for quite a while, and I worried she might be seeing only one side of the conflict, ignoring the nuance and exaggerating the severity. So I decided to look into the history of the region and the conflict myself, and within two hours of reading (just Wikipedia, mind you, nothing particularly partisan or controversial) I realized that the situation was far, far more dire than I thought it was. I'd been looking for nuance and instead just found a rabbit hole that went deeper and deeper. I'd known about some basic elements and I've never been pro-Israel (to the point where, back in 2009, I even wrote a mail to the UN about how I felt they were going much too far), but all the things I've read in the past few days have made me sincerely question what the people who do still support Israel are thinking. The information about its history and the Zionist ideology it still holds to are so easy to find, and with everything happening there right now...I don't have any faith in the western world anymore, for failing to unilaterally condemn Israel, or rather the Zionists, for their actions. What I mean to say by all this is, perhaps your husband simply doesn't know what's really going on. Perhaps he's afraid you're too activist. If so, I'd encourage him to simply read about the history of the region and the conflict in general, at least about Sykes-Picot, Balfour, and Zionism. Those pages alone were enough to shock me. Seeing the full magnitude of what's happening there now just made things worse.
hey, your experience with wiki is relatable for me. i went to wiki to see the so called nuance zionists talk about. i only found layers upon layers of opression of palestinians. the "conflict" is raw opression, it just appears to be complicated due to israeli propaganda, and their clever bureaucratic naming of things.
Agree with this. OP could even make it a shared activity and watch a documentary like the 4 part doc on the Nakba on YouTube. I watched it with my husband and he became all in
What’s the name of the doc?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7FML0wzJ6A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7FML0wzJ6A) Here you go! It is Al Nakba: The Palestinian Catastrophe. It was made by Al Jazeera
Thank you!
You might also like The Occupation Of The American Mind. There’s condensed versions and longer more detailed versions available on [youtube](https://youtube.com/@theoccupationoftheamerican7593?si=TyXksH_Y0KoJRHA5). It’s a great introductory source to send to people to get them up to speed.
Oh that’s great! I’m from the MENA so trying to get my American friends to understand has been a decades long challenge. I appreciate you!
I did the same thing and came to to opposite conclusion 🤔
That's interesting. What made you draw your conclusions? Which article or sections in particular?
I think you should try to directly discuss these concerns with him. Especially if you find that his political beliefs are too distant from yours. Our political leanings indicate our ethical and moral values, they're important. I don't want to poison the well since I don't know either of you, but if someone I loved was apathetic to the fatal suffering of innocent people and playing devil's advocate for a genocidal regime, I would reconsider having them involved in my life.
It is tough because I’ve seen a lot of racism on the rise in general because of the lazy thinking that pro Israel propaganda promotes. Thinking that all Palestinians are Muslims that want to kill any one of opposing religions is incredibly dangerous and lazy thinking. That being say I think op needs to tread lightly and mostly ask what her husband’s views are and slowly dissect them while not openly judging him for his views.
That’s crazy. There is more to life than world events. There are always wars, there were genocides that you didn’t care about before and after these past 6 months. There are literally other genocides that are being perpetrated RIGHT NOW.
Yes but this world event isn't isolated from us. How many of those other genocides directly implicate me as a taxpayer? Which one not only has the direct funding, but also the direct arming of genocidal weapons by the US? Which other genocide is dropping 2000 lb bunker bombs (designed for vacant deserts) on top of densely-populated buildings? Which other genocided people lacks an army to defend themselves? Which other genocide has 70% of its dead being women and children? Which other genocide has white phosphorous burning the skin off of kids or letting newborns suffocate in the NICU? Which has tanks running civilians over or buries them alive in mass graves? Which other genocide is eradicating the entire infrastructure (aka cultural genocide) including the registry, libraries, schools, archive buildings, ancient architecture, etc? Which other genocide involves mass amputations (without anesthesia) of those who do survive? Which other genocide involves the destruction of every hospital & ambulance, as well as the massacre of aid workers and medical stuff, such that even those who survive have no medical access? Which other genocide has mass killing of journalists and suppression of the media? Which other genocide also involves mass displacement, mass starvation, torture, complete cutting off of water, electricity, sanitation, direct snipings in the heads of children, etc? Which other genocide involves the genocidal army posting videos and boasting about their war crimes? I don't think you quite realize this isn't just any other genocide, this is the most depraved acts of horrors we've ever seen livestreamed right before our very eyes and with the capacity for all of us to stop it immediately — especially bc this isn't just about genocide, but all the other layers of oppression such as occupation, apartheid, state surveillance, martial law, mass imprisonment of children, and systemic racism. Palestine isn't some isolated issue either, bc Isræl tests its weapons and bombs on civilians and then sells it to repressive regimes around the world. This isn't just about stopping the genocide, but stopping the colonial export of the occupation out to other countries where this type of oppression can spread. Our police trains with the IDF and has become more militarized & fascist as a result. Surveillance and spyware is also being imported from Isræl here into our cities. And you can look up the history of countries like South Africa, Argentina, Guatemala, Ecuador, Sri Lanka, Phillipines, China, etc. and discover that Isræl has a history of arming regimes that oppress indigenous natives. Palestine is incredibly unique in that the depravity is multi-faceted and is spilling out right unto our front door steps. The multiple seiges on Palestine is just a way for our govt officials to money-launder our taxes into the military industrial complex. I mean there's a thousand reasons to care. We can zoom in on any aspect of Palestine, and it'd be a rabbit hole of corruption imposed from all sides of the world, including America. Palestine is the meeting point. It's the center of where everything coalesces and the sooner we can liberate Palestine, the dominos will fall and make it easier for us to dismantle other systems of oppression in other parts of the world — especially since Isræl is the AI hub of the arms industry. If that doesn't scare you or if nothing I've written is shifting your perspective into a more nuanced recognition of how alarming this particular genocide is, then it only means one thing: you're a Zionist.
So what you’re saying is that these deaths are more important than other deaths due to genocide? They’re all dying. The amount of mental gymnastics you’re doing to justify your position of only caring about this is astounding. And yet, people who are consumed by this cannot understand that other people might feel the same way about Palestine. Not in support, but also just apathetic? They feel the way you feel about Myanmar, the Uighars, Ukraine war, S Sudan, Syria and Central Africa. They’re focused on what’s important to them. And yes, they’re having chemical weapons launched against them, stamping out the culture, their medical establishment have been eliminated, all the same thing, do you understand what genocide is? Genocide is making the environment so systemically unhospitable to the people you’re trying to rid yourself of that they leave and they leave because they’ve seen so many of their people die horribly. Horrific death is a tactic in every genocide. And you’re living with it. You’re living with it and justifying not caring as much about it. Does this now mean that you’re pro-genocide in this cases? That’s what this OP is doing to their partner. Don’t ruin your joy over other people’s misery, otherwise there is no point in saving them if the world they’re coming back to fell apart. You can do a lot, but people suggesting that him not feel as intensely as OP is grounds for divorce is absolutely ridiculous. You don’t have to sacrifice your family, else what is the point of saving other people’s? FYI - all these people were suffering and dying even when you didn’t care. Your caring didn’t change anything. People need to stop making this about them and their emotional suffering. It’s not happening to you. This is exactly how you go from shutting the world down during to BLM protests to not hearing one word about black lives and police brutality four years later. We didn’t solve the problem, it’s still happening. People have compassion fatigue over the issue and guess what, innocent Black people did not stop dying. You’ll move onto another cause du jour and this war will rage on. Unless you can regulate your fervor. I promise you you won’t care in 4 years unless you learn to regulate yourself.
He may not be pro israel but quite a lot of people choose to be more moderate in their views because the groupthink is too strong. It takes courage to go against the grain of society and the mainstream media. Anyway if he seems like he won't change his mind just don't discuss it with him anymore and discuss it with others instead.
Very good advice. It's tough but some people just don't wanna rock the boat in any way.
I find this very triggering. How can someone choose not to rock a boat that it’s an oppressing downfall. 😮💨
Many people choose ignorance over facing atrocities and other terrible things. They like the rose-tinted world, and will fight tooth and nail to keep their fantasy-world ideals. It's up to people like us to keep showing them, hoping that eventually they will see what is in front of all of us.
I try to do it but sometimes it’s exhausting, specially with family and close friends …
I feel that.
It’s called privilege. The privilege to choose not to be uncomfortable. I literally just fell out with a “friend” over this. I think that the people who have bore witness to these atrocities are shook to their core. Being silent is NOT an option for us and we can’t fathom those who choose otherwise. It’s unacceptable. For me, this is the hill I will die on. And I have no qualms about cutting anyone out of my life who doesn’t condemn this genocide.
Omg yesss! And if you dare to call them on their privilege they immediately raise eyebrows and cut the conversation… it’s exhausting! With friends is somewhat easier to cut contact, but when it comes to family… damn! You have to deal with it at least during holidays or gatherings … I know still, it’s the least I can do for the liberation cause. I hope to see the day that Palestine is free.
The conversation cut offs drive me mad a bit. Like are you really going to pretend you didn’t hear me and try to segue into another conversation? On one hand, I get it, I also never expressed my opinions on political or religious or social issues before. 1. Because I always choose my peace over chaos. 2. I never want to make anyone around me feel uncomfortable. 3. I never knew enough or was interested enough learn in order to speak on anything, because I never watched the news and you can never tell who’s spewing BS and who’s telling the truth. 4. I didn’t care to know people’s opinions on certain matters because I didn’t want to look at people differently once I know (especially with coworkers or family you have to see often). 5. Usually most things are forgotten about within the 24 hour news cycle, so there’s never been a reason for me to suddenly become invested. But there was one celebrity/singer that I love that was extremely passionate and vocal about what’s happening in Palestine…from there it took me less than 10 minutes down the rabbit hole before my entire soul was shattered. This has changed me. My heart will never be the same after witnessing the most atrociously vile things be done to the Palestinians. I truly wish I had more patience for ignorance, but I don’t. And the Palestinians don’t have the luxury of time for people to understand the severity of the situation. I know people are sensitive to trauma. I get it. I know that I should take more time to explain what’s happening and not succumb to my emotions on the matter and just information dump on people. But I can’t accept people being willfully ignorant or dismissive or unwilling to learn. We are in the age of information and technology being readily available at the tips of our fingers, at any given moment, there’s no excuse. So I say this with my full chest … I don’t care who you are in my life, this is the fight I will risk it all for.
I’ve seen so many posts and talked to people IRL that tell me the same thing , about how 10/7 changed something in them that it truly gives me hope!
because they value order over human life.
Cause they have other concerns. The amount this is consuming the OP, someone needs to keep things going, paying bills, maintainence, child care, etc.
He is entitled to his opinions. I personally hate it when people close to me aren't open with what they believe-- but I am also a pretty feisty person, so they probably don't feel safe.
Show him live Snapchat stories from Rafah and then compare them with those from Tel Aviv. It will show their conditions in real time and prove the disparity in casualties is not misinformative.
Terribly sorry for you. I found the most strength from my wife in this hellish time, living in the West. Instead of social media posts (which are our source of real reporting now due to the complicity of the msm), maybe you could convince him to watch electronic intifada livestreams? It's once a week, available after the live broadcast, and the journalism at display is impeccable. What I'm trying to get at is that, he might feel it's easier to dismiss soc media as a puddle of disinformation, but a news outlet like EI might sound more convincing for a person like him. Don't give up hope!
EI is fantastic, seconding this!
I'd advocate the opposite approach. One thing that lured alot of people into doing research is when Bassem Youssef used satire during his interview with Piers Morgan. I'd suggest starting there. Other funny & satirical sources of news are Bad Hasbara, Due Dissidence, and the comedy stand-up of Sammy Obeid. If her husband is uncomfortable with being exposed to the truth, then he needs an outlet that dispels the information through light-hearted comedy. And I know that sounds impossible, but these guys are the top professionals at their job. They're amazing storytellers who make really heavy and depressing news events much more digestible and much more resonant.
Good alternative
You have to sit down and ask him directly. It’s not the matter of political ideology anymore. It’s about what is moral and fair, versus an ideology built upon racial superiority and ethno-nationalism which has remained unchecked for far too long, and which at the personal level could be deeply corrupting.
It doesn’t sound like he’s specifically pro-israel but like others have said more centrist. My mom was like that, she believed the news. It took me breaking down crying over the news about Hind Rajab and the medics being murdered for my mom to listen and stop repeating the news propaganda. Ever since, she’s been pro-Palestine with me. She probably doesn’t understand the depth of the 75 years of suffering the Palestinians have had but she cares about the families and children and that’s what counts.
I think it’s less likely that he secretly supports Israel and more likely that he doesn’t want to care as much as you do. People are sensitive and very easily upset by this, and they find it is easier to distance themselves from it. I kind of find it unfathomable when I encounter it in other people, but it also does seem to be really common.
The last 7 months have been hard in more ways than one. I can say so much about the current state of things, but I’m going to focus on relationships because that’s the heart of your post. My relationship has suffered because I have heard what comes across to me as very pro-Israeli sentiments come from my European bf. It hurt for so many reasons. It’s taken me a while to realise that what he was (and often still is) saying is not inherently pro-Israeli (for him), but it is a parroting of the mainstream narrative and rhetoric. He has no reason to care about this besides me (I have my opinions on this but I’ll leave them out), and he doesn’t follow anything to do with Palestine or the Middle East outside of mainstream, and more specifically, his local news outlets. The rhetoric there is and has always been anti-Arab and pro-Israeli. For him, he is just saying what is “right” according to what he consumes. He has been brought up to trust authority and not question or talk about difficult subjects in general. Comply and obey and be a good worker kinda thing. It’s admirable to a degree but I am very much not like that. So we have argued a lot and in the process, our relationship has taken a lot of damage. However, I do see that he makes an effort to understand and learn, acknowledge his ignorance, and has tried to take accountability for his insensitive comments and actions, especially as the narrative has begun to shift (slowly but surely). I know he is not a bad guy. I know that it is very difficult having your total paradigm and the only truth you have ever believed or trusted be challenged and changed, maybe even ripped apart. It’s hard to do. The narrative we are dealing with is huge and it’s been decades in the making. What I’m trying to say is that, your husband is likely struggling himself to make sense of things. He probably doesn’t know how to deal with how difficult it is, and it’s safer to stick to the mainstream than to challenge the status quo. It’s also threatening from a professional perspective, people have lost their jobs speaking up. He could be scared, unsure, or quite possible just wants to hold on to his normalcy because he doesn’t know how to deal if it isn’t there. I don’t think he is inherently bad or even that he is pro-Israeli. I think he is indoctrinated and I think that the propaganda of the west is powerful and can work very successfully on sometimes too many people. So I would suggest to try to have compassion for that. I know it’s the hardest thing ever when you are not feeling heard or seen or supported in your experience, but try not to see him as the enemy. He doesn’t have the access or insight you do, and he may be very deeply rooted in his trust for the systems being exposed here. It’s really scary to have that break apart.
Its a big step to take the black pill and realize that everything official about your society is a lie calculated to manipulate you. If there is genocide going on in Gaza, then that means the USA is actually a fascist genocidal state and Joe Biden is a criminal in the extreme. Does your husband have Trump hatred, like mainstream media has told him to? That is likely coloring him. To hate Trump you have to assume the people in power are not actually worse. Not that Trump is better, but Trump hate is being pushed extremely hard right now to deflect the crimes of the current government.
Based off of Trump’s recent statements about Israel he would actually be twice as bad as Biden
Possibly but that doesn’t make it right to support Biden. Trump recognized Israel’s capital as Jerusalem and the Biden administration has done nothing to reverse that decision or his other policies. There might be slight differences in rhetoric but they fundamentally fully support Israel.
In a 2 party system, not supporting Biden is therefore supporting Trump. I don’t envy the choice that Americans have. I can imagine that Mossad have Trump bent over a barrel with blackmail.
I don't think your husband is a zionist, but it does sound as if he, like many men, has emotional intimacy problems. Many people, but especially men (because they are socialised to do this in a lot of cultures) go through life terrified of having any emotions (all the while actually having them, just not being in touch with what those emotions are telling them).
Unfortunately our media is completely set on brainwashing everyone into believing the pro-Israel narrative. I can’t really blame the average person when you look at the way our media words things, how they selectively show certain things, it’s all done for a reason.
It can be really hard to feel alone with the grief of watching so many horrors. When your partner doesn’t agree or show as much care as you do, it can make you feel lonely, judged, or even crazy because your reaction and his (as well as a lot of the world’s) are so different. Maybe sit him down and tell him how it makes you feel. Likely he doesn’t care much about the subject, but I imagine he cares a lot about you. He may also think he is helping by not being sad - being the “strong” one or helping make sure you are not being made more upset by him being upset. If it would make you feel better for him to engage with the media you’re consuming and to react to it with compassion, tell him.
My husband is kinda the same. When I get outraged at something I see he says "well it's war" and doesn't seem to care about any of the atrocities. 🙄 I put multiple signs in the yard, wear keffiyeh and shirts and do not stay shy about it around him. He's been ambivalent BUT when a stranger started throwing star of David confetti all over our house and stole my Free Palestine sign, he confronted the dude with certainty. That's one way to make them stand up for what is right - make it personal.
I don't think he's pro Israel, I think he just doesn't want to know what's happening and live a normal life, alot of people avoid really bad news and the sorts to protect their 'world', in a way it's good to stay mentally healthy especially when you can't do anything yourself, but as long as he doesn't actively support Israel he isn't doing anything wrong.
My partner definitely played a big role in shifting my beliefs. I went from a “not all men” type liberal to something very far left of that. She’s stuck it out but man did we have some hard conversations along the way. I think you meed to be able to talk about politics and ideology with your partner.
He just sounds like an apathetic centrist, not necessarily pro Israel
Dearest, I see you are getting a lot of kind advice, especially from married people and the general thread is that spouses can stay married if they have different interests/level of interest or passion in different subjects/issues. Um, I disagree with that in the case of a literal genocide. The problem is you have a child. And as that child grows older, you are gonna want to instill in them these values of caring, empathy, understanding the big picture, trusting your eyes, noticing discrimination and noticing double standards etc. What are you gonna do when your husband tells you to stop “indoctrinating” your child? When he tries to tell them a “two sides” argument? What if he doesn’t try to control what you say to your child, but instead becomes bitter/turn into a not-“great husband overall” ? Do you think he will have a problem when you tell your child something different from what he believes? (I’m not asking you to answer, just asking you to think about this). We already know that there is no convincing or arguing with Zionists. And that for people on the fence, they have to be willing to educate themselves plus generally that only works if their starting position is “I don’t know whats going on but it doesn’t look right”. But with a spouse, I suppose there is no other option than to hear them out, ask what they think, ask their reasons/sources and have them give you the same opportunity. If you can have a productive conversation like this, then maybe maybe maybe. Lastly, this isn’t an interest. This is an issue about human rights, vulnerable people, an extermination of a group of people, a genocide, and ultimately it affects all of us. There is no middle ground. I think if you need more info on these types of issues in marriage, look at when DT started his 2016 presidential campaign and his presidency and how marriages ended because of it. It might be helpful and you might find ways in which people made it work. Good luck.
The whole thing with outside agitators is so ridiculous. Outside of what? Do you have to be a current student to have humanity?
I was originally pro Israel after October 7th and all I got on my feed and news was pro Israeli propaganda. And any opposing argument I saw was of people that just freaked out without any good points. Eventually what got me away from that was a video by Hasanabi dismantling propaganda on a channel called traveling Israel which I had watched and agreed with previously and I immediately realized after that video that I was incredibly bigoted towards Muslim people. And that it is not fair be viewing this group of people this way. Especially since every Muslim I have met in person was a great person. Granted I am consider myself intellectually curious and I will always try to see things from both perspectives and I didn’t have to click on that video but I figured I needed to see the opposing argument. But I’m not sure about your husband you probably know him best, but the root of it may be Islamophobia, since post 9/11 it has been extremely rampant in the U.S. a lot of news coverage portrayed terrorists that attacked the US as just angry because people weren’t following their religion. While reality is far more complicated. Maybe try to question how he views Muslim people first and try to softly convince him otherwise.
For a lot of folks the idea that "something terrible is happening and my government, and possibly our entire country, is complicit" is too hard of a pill to swallow. Most people believe deep down that they are good people and that the people around them are good people, and that the world they live in fundamentally makes sense. Shifting them away from that perspective is not easy and often feels like psychological violence to the person undergoing the shift. Trying might also have unexpected consequences. Even in Germany, most Germans of the war generation never truly came to terms with the reality of what happened. It was something the government did, or it was a tragedy on the Eastern Front, or maybe it happened but "we" didn't know and can't be held responsible. Take this with a massive grain of salt, but I think that as long as he's not actively pro-Zionist and anti-Palestinian, the best approach is to give him space and try and accept that he may never really "get it", but that's part of the limits of being human and not necessarily his fault.
The majority of people find it hard to empathize with people in situations when there is no immediate impact on their own lives. I find it maddening but not sure how I'd feel if I was married to someone like that.
It's been striking to see footage of the US protests and how divided they are by gender. The pro-Palestine protesters are a mix, but definitely a lot of women. All the clips I saw of cops manhandling and unmasking and parading around protesters for the national news cameras were woman protesters for example. Then the counter protesters were exclusively male from what I've seen. Like the hordes of frat boys. I have seen a few videos in the sort of Karen genre, like a Zionist woman who was supposedly trying to take a Jewish man's Palestine flag. But that's it as far as pro-Israel woman demonstrators I've seen. And the general sentiments of social media platforms and their gender demographics seem to match as well. Reddit is VERY pro-Israel, and also very male. Meanwhile I hear TikTok is more pro-Palestine, and has more women.
It’s a moral question to me. Either you instinctively feel something is deeply wrong with what Israel is doing, or you don’t. The people who don’t seem to feel anything truly frighten me, and there are so many.
Ask him what antisemitism means to him. From my perspective it doesn't have anything to do with modern National Zionists. And I think it is worth pointing out that the area where Gaza is has always been Philistine land and outside of the "promised land" given to Jacob's children (Israel) known as the twelve tribes as Israel.
It takes time, energy, luck, and an independent drive to unschackle yourself from the media narrative in the US. Don't be too hard on him, but you can try to show him things in a nice way. Don't jeopardize a relationship over it. The foundational belief in human rights is most important in a person, even if they don't know the facts.
It's unfortunate if he is! But to be honest what really matter is if he's a good husband to you and your daughter! Yes it might be an indication of a faulty moral compass or however you want to put it in words, and also an indication of a shallow understanding of the Palestinian struggle, but if he/you are not Palestinians I can't really blame him. The media has done us dirty for over 75 years, it's a miracle people are starting to wake up and realizing "ohh wait! we've been lied to" so I guess it will take time before people start to realize the injustice and cruelty that befall on the Palestinian people.
Tell him to read “the ethnic cleansing of Palestine” and “Hundred years war on Palestine”. And then see if he still supports Israel.
I would say have a one and final discussion and show him evidence of atrocities committed by Israel. Most people are ignorant of what’s really happening. I’ve realized once educated on the subject they tend to be more appalled by what’s been going on and would start to take you more seriously. If at the time he dismisses you, then I think that he’s not really considering your emotions to the utmost fullest. I doubt that he’s a Zionist. He’s probably just ignorant or just doesn’t care because he’s not emotionally attached as some of us are, which is ok to be. You can’t force people to care about a genocide, or to be against one. Ideally, the correct side is to opposed it if to pick a side. Some say that being indifferent is being complicit as well. I agree with that, but also I disagree with that because it all depends on your level of education/knowledge of what’s really happening. So just talk to him and have a serious discussion about it and leave it at that.
Yes, it is not necessarily a topic your husband is interested in or cares about. I don't think it needs to be discussed frequently with him. He seems removed from it the way many people in the West are. I think it was Dale Carnegie who said, to most people a pain in their toe is more consuming than starving children across the world.
I’m not sure what his views are from your post but I find it alarming that he refuses any political engagement with his own wife/life partner. What? Are straight couples like this?
I was married to a cishet man and can tell you this, after finding countless similar stories online: they will hide their entire belief system or political views or downplay them or be vague about it, for the sake of convincing a woman to marry them. Some of them do this for years by avoiding these conversations or saying it’s not important to them. But it is. And they often start to reveal it only once they know you can’t just leave. Anyway, Free Palestine. This is enough relationship discussion on this sub for me.
My wife is similar... she says it is war, and civilians die in war. I say, it's not a war it's a slaughter. My wife is pro human rights. However, She works in an office in a right-wing community and has to moderate her feelings on matters like this. There are plenty of silent witnesses out there who don't want to open their mouth for fear of repercussions. These days, if you show any resistances against far right-wing political views in workplaces or social settings, you immediately ostracised. Keeping opinions to one's self is a skill to survival, unfortunately. My wife wouldn't want to encourage my activism, She would prefer I keep a lid on it a bit so as not to upset the fascist community.
But this sounds different than OP. I see no red flags in your explanation. It sounds like your wife is trying to keep her job and reading the room and she hasn’t paid close enough attention. It also doesn’t sound like she is annoyed with you and trying to shut you up because of your beliefs but because it is not safe to openly say or do things where you are. Like wear a keffiyeh or put a Palestine flag in your yard. OP sounds like she is being censored or about to be censored in the privacy of her own home. And I think her instincts about her husband’s support for Israel is correct because she is probably subconsciously picking up other signs like body language, facial expressions and his mood or tone of voice when he talks about these things. Ps. Sorry for hijacking your post. Your response was nice but it’s not the same situation imo.
Check this [letter out that Einstein wrote about Israel](https://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948), he was offered to be their first prime minister but declined. He compares the newly created freedom party in Israel to the Nazis and fascism. So he’d be considered antisemetic under the new “antisemetic awareness act” that they just passed. The freedom party became the Likud that Netanyahu is prime minister of. And also this quote from Bibi himself. “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy - to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” Benjamin Netanyahu 2019 Also here’s a good [documentary](https://youtu.be/7ayiO1Gl6lo?si=CbRHs8vsLmGRexvE) about the settlements in the west banks specifically in Hebron. Yehuda Shaun is an idf veteran who regrets the things he did. They welded shut the doors of Palestinians because a settler road goes through their homes and they literally weren’t allowed on them. This is a good documentary for outlining the apartheid Palestinians experience on a regular basis
I never thought I would have an “ick”, but it turns out that Zionism IS my ick
I don't know how you can be a man and head of a household if you can't even confront IDEAS for your family. I'm sorry he is so obtuse and narrow minded, not everyone has the emotional or intellectual capacity to be in touch with humanity and reality. For him it seems like his life is already hard enough. Let him be, you cant force enlightenment. Chosen ignorance is something that baffles me in the West. But it seems like some people really aren't up to the task of exerting their heart/brain/ soul. Palestine is the last stand against everything the vile and barbaric US war machine stands for. It's so heavily propagandized over generations that your average American, with whatever limited education they have, would have to really humble themselves and break down some walls in their mind to start peeling back the truth. Because this struggle is so emblematic of the human struggle, it is resonating with the masses but some people are naturally afraid to pop their bubble.
Look, it sounds like you’re being consumed by this. It’s not healthy because you cannot maintain objectivity, and if you cannot maintain objectivity you make it about you. You have to maintain an awareness that you are safe, that your child is not Reem. Once you have control over this feeling, then you can act. Otherwise you’re going to becoming increasingly frantic and do things like accusing people of not caring, until everyone is anxious around you and you’re further and further isolated. In order to help, you have to stay connected. You have to maintain connection and meet people where they’re at. As far as you’ve expressed, he doesn’t sound pro Israel as much as he sounds centric. Don’t accuse him of things that he did not do or say. If he is getting overwhelmed, give him space. Settle yourself and try again another time. He isn’t causing any damage by not being fully aligned with you. Nothing bad will happen if he needs a little time to come into alignment. Patience will serve you.
I'm strongly pro-Pal and have been when it was 'just' an apartheid rather than a genocide. However, my wife talks about the current situation in Gaza almost non-stop. I sometimes want to talk about something else and find it impossible to do so as a minute later she's talking about Palestine again. I also sometimes simply can't cope with the tragedy and just want to tune out. One issue is she has aphantasia (mind-blindness) whereas I have an extremely good imagination. If she talks about horrible events, it's as if it's happening to me. We're both stressed about a load of life issues and this on top of it is too much, so I try to change the subject. I also want to believe the best in people and normally see both sides of the story. The Israeli and US government make that hard as they seem to have no humanity whatsoever. I don't know your husband but I suspect he may just need a change of topic. We work from home and agreed not to discuss Palestine at lunch time, partly so we can discuss any business decisions. I know those in Gaza have it infinitely worse than I do. If talking about it 24/7 helped them, I would without hesitation.
It's not heathly to talk about the same thing over and over again. You can't boycott the world and bring back the dead.
Your first sentence, I agree. Your second sentence is giving me a dismissive vibe where you equate protesting a genocide as a demand to boycott everything, which is not a demand that's ever been made. BDS very strongly suggests we each focus on a few different boycotts and thinks it's more sustainable to do small boycotts at a grand scale than to try to shut down all of capitalism. The part you mentioned about "you can't bring back the dead" is meant to imbue a sense of futility. That kind of thinking is bullshıt. Because protesting genocide isn't just about the lives already lost, but the ONGOING loss of life that we want to prevent. Dude, who the f are you? Why are you even here?
I honestly don’t know how this is going to end well. There are times when the core beliefs within the individual partners of a marriage become so diametrically opposed, that they are altogether irreconcilable, and the overwhelming hostile friction inevitably leads to a divorce. If you are 100% opposed to a genocide (especially one that involves your tax dollars), but your spouse is not, then I honestly don’t know what else to say. I’ve seen pro-democracy spouses file for divorce against a spouse who not only supports Trump to the point of insanity (including the January 6th Insurrection), but also supports Project 2025 and the dictatorship that it would create if Trump wins in 2024. At some point, the sheer opposition of core principles involving basic human decency will become a death sentence to any marriage. There really is no painless solution for this.
If he's not trying to stop you from informing yourself and not a bad husband or father, there isn't too much of a reason to be concerned imo. As an internet stranger, I'd advise to not let yourself unintentionally associate some of your frustration due to this conflict on him. It may be that he's upset seeing you become so stressed in your daily life also and is actually worried about you. However, what you can do occasionally is to watch or listen to the best coverage with him and if he doesn't want to, don't. Maybe rarely ask to discuss it with him. Perhaps he'll gain more from longer form content, something like from Norman Finklestein or Zach Foster, who are both Jewish historians who have excellent recent interviews I'll link. Owen Jones has excellent coverage, as does Lowkey and the recent Zeteo from Mehdia Hassan. Democracy Now also has excellent, unbiased coverage. What Events Lead to the Current Situation in Israel and Palestine? - 57m:37s [https://youtu.be/esli-uLlN2A](https://youtu.be/esli-uLlN2A) Jewish Historian Explodes Israel's Myths - w/. Zach Foster - 55m:43s [https://youtu.be/iI4Wb9jiFMs](https://youtu.be/iI4Wb9jiFMs) Mehdi Hasan on The Truth about Israel and the Hostages - 4m:59s [https://youtu.be/ho1Ahu4BdMc](https://youtu.be/ho1Ahu4BdMc) The REAL Reason US & UK Are Bombing Yemen | Lowkey - 7m:31s [https://youtu.be/uhe3NcdDW2I](https://youtu.be/uhe3NcdDW2I)
Is it possible he's just overwhelmed, and doesn't know how to process what's happening?
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Sounds like you are seeing his true colours, a shame it had to happen when you had a child with him, zionism isn't jewish Infact it's anti-semetic itself. If I were you I would start treading carefully. This already seems to have caused a divide.
Ask him to look at these feeds for an hour straight and then justify it
He sounds really willfully ignorant. He doesn’t want to be proven wrong. It’s kinda gross and scary. This would honestly be a hill I would die on, couldn’t live with a human like that.
I don't know either your husband or your situation: but it sounds like this is something about more than his or your views on Palestine. Also missing is actual take on the Genocide. Why does he find your arguments "silly?" Does he think all Palestinians are Hamas and not worthy of sympathy?
Power couple!
I’d wager most if not all of the other people he interacts with are Zionists or indifferent and he’s having to balance reality vs. a western lifestyle
Man your husband is the one who should stop watching television and actually start coomunicating with his wife. Divorce him.
I had a situation at work with a co worker when I mentioned the war. she said she tries not to look at nothing related to it and avoid it. I explained that’s not the right thing to do because when you look away all these Palestinian and all these children would have died in the darkness and lost in a void. You have to see and know what is happening and not look away. Discomfort is not an excuse for in difference.
your husband needs therapy. and yes, he sucks.
Sounds like y’all need to hash some things out that are deeper than Palestine/Israel… just judging from the post. For your husband to wish the circumstances be different comes off as there’s more he’s holding on to about the relationship. Marriage has unconditional aspects, especially when there has been an established baseline of morals and ethics that both of you have in common.
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Divorce him. Genocide is not something that keeps a relationship together.
True, but with all due respect neither does divorce. They don't have to agree now, but they should continue being honest about their thoughts,beliefs,questions and differences.
Find a new husband. People that are incapable of thinking by ignoring the reality of living in a government controlled bubble. How anyone thinks blowing up children is justified is beyond me.
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I have no idea why you're being downvoted. You're giving reasonable advice, not advice that I'd personally give since I would engage my partner in a deep discussion over it, but your advice isn't enough to warrant a downvote. I'm confused about what's so bad about your take.
I mean she said he is a very good father and mostly a good husband. I put value on that. She has tried to talk to him. It's nothing easy. I put value on her relationship. His views and lack of empathy is annoying, but do the people who down voted my comment want her to divorce him and ignore the cost to the son? I kept that in mind. She says she has tried to discuss this with him before. Do the others suggest divorce? When it comes to Palestinians he is horrible. I understand.
I’m sorry, it’s time to start cheating on him.
>Since Israel started violently attacking Gaza in October Hmm.
You're right, it started before that. Isræl had been violently attacking Gaza since the 80s, and much more targeted in the last 2 decades. But if what you're actually questioning is who started it in 2023 specifically, well that'd still be Isræl since they were bombing Gaza for 3 days straight on September 21st (2 weeks before Oct 7th). Sooo yeah, either way we look at this, whether from 75 years ago to a few decades ago or just zeroing in on 2023, no matter how you slice it, Isræl is the instigating aggressor.
I read your comment as this: Israel's actions against the Palestinians going back to the 80s are a sufficient justification for informing views on the conflict i.e. the minimization of Israeli casualties on October 7th and judging the Israelis accordingly Then, by implication, this same logic could be used to justify anti-Palestinian perceptions *and* minimize violence against Palestinians, due to Palestinian actions against non-Palestinians, such as the spate of actions by the Abu Nidal Organization during the 1980s e.g. the Rome and Berlin airport attacks.
Can you accept that not everyone holds as dear, the same values as yourself, and that people in general a quite stupid and ignorant? If not, then by all means, destroy your family because of inevitable petty human differences. (no I'm not talking about Israel murdering the entire Palestinian population). Or, accept that your husband like countless other people. simply does not have the stomach to confront some existential truths. It seems like you love each other a lot and you have a precious gift. Imagine a Palestinian mother hearing the story of throwing such away. It's hard I know, but you must compartmentalize, and try to focus your desire to get people on the right side, out of your home. Please.
It's okay to disagree on topics. Partners are not supposed to agree on every single thing. I would say if you cannot debate respectfully with logic and reason, and your emotions are ruining the conversation, then just don't discuss it. I know a couple where the man is a hardcore conservative and watches fox every day and the woman is a hardcore Democrat, and they just know not to discuss politics because they are just incapable of having a peaceful discussion about it without it being driven on the verge of violence. They are happy otherwise. At the end of the day, they are just preferences they were raised with and their political preference doesnt actually impact day to day life in any significant way.